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ManUtd4ever
05-05-2011, 10:11 AM
Assuming the injuries last night weren't serious, I'd like to see Winter go with this lineup on Saturday...

---------------Frei----------------

Eckersley-Attakora-Williams-Borman

---------JDG--------Tchani--------

Martina------Cordon----Stevanovic

-------------Gordon---------------

Subs: Santos, Plata, Zavarise

Yohan
05-05-2011, 10:21 AM
2-0 Houston. Even though Houston also played (and lost) last night, I don't see how TFC can score, and stop getting scored.

Brad Davis is on a rampage, and his set piece is going to kill us. Because TFC is not very good at set piece defending. Somehow TFC has to pinch off Brad Davis and Geoff Cameron from dominating midfield

pekduck
05-05-2011, 10:25 AM
I thought Cameron is still not 100% and questionable this Sat. I could be wrong.

Beach_Red
05-05-2011, 10:42 AM
Assuming the injuries last night weren't serious, I'd like to see Winter go with this lineup on Saturday...

---------------Frei----------------

Eckersley-Attakora-Williams-Borman

---------JDG--------Tchani--------

Martina------Cordon----Stevanovic

-------------Gordon---------------

Subs: Santos, Plata, Zavarise



Just curious, has anyone ever successfully predicted a Winter line-up?

Gazza
05-05-2011, 10:46 AM
I think Plata has earned his way into the starting 11. Which isn't really a stretch. I'd like to see Yourass in there as well.

Winter seems to like to coddle players, so i doubt JDG or Gordon start this one.

maninb
05-05-2011, 12:26 PM
Yourass MUST start ahead of Borman after Borman was roasted last weekend by Seattle...

TFCREDNWHITE
05-05-2011, 12:34 PM
Assuming the injuries last night weren't serious, I'd like to see Winter go with this lineup on Saturday...

---------------Frei----------------

Eckersley-Attakora-Williams-Borman

---------JDG--------Tchani--------

Martina------Cordon----Stevanovic

-------------Gordon---------------

Subs: Santos, Plata, Zavarise


Nana Attakora is gone....he is being purposely benched because they are in the midst of trading him....

Troll
05-05-2011, 12:51 PM
Nana Attakora is gone....he is being purposely benched because they are in the midst of trading him....


His value must be sky high right now. Can't wait to see what gold we'll attract with our new 3rd round superdraft pick.

:facepalm:

DangerRed
05-05-2011, 12:54 PM
I'd say TFC 0 : 2 HOU, or TFC 1 : 3 HOU.

You already saw this game in the preseason. Not much has changed except Houston's confidence is running high, while ours is rather low.

See ya at the ground. At least it's supposed to be somewhat sunny and 15 C.

TFCRegina
05-05-2011, 12:57 PM
Nana Attakora is gone....he is being purposely benched because they are in the midst of trading him....

Don't blame him. If he's asked for a trade, good for him. I feel the same way about De Ro, and would feel the same way about any player this club has treated like shit.

You'll note that certain players with a key characteristic are being slapped down by the club.

But hey, no player is bigger than the club right?

Hard to be smaller than the club when the club is so small minded.

Derko
05-05-2011, 01:44 PM
Nana Attakora is gone....he is being purposely benched because they are in the midst of trading him....

If that is the case, it is a shame, I think Nana Attakora is getting burned much as did DeRo, although I didn't like Dero's tactics, Nana is just being railroaded.

JonO
05-05-2011, 01:47 PM
^ Right now there is only one anonymous source saying t. I am not saying it's wrong, but I'm not ready to jump to any conclusions either...

Ossington Mental Youth
05-05-2011, 02:06 PM
is REDNWHITE a credible source?
(not hating just not ready to jump on anyones say so, im sure you can respect that)

menefreghista
05-05-2011, 02:17 PM
is REDNWHITE a credible source?
(not hating just not ready to jump on anyones say so, im sure you can respect that)

I don't think he's the only one that mentioned it.

In the latest post match thread a couple of different posters alluded to something similar. That Nana's days with TFC are numbered.

Beach_Red
05-05-2011, 02:22 PM
Nana Attakora is gone....he is being purposely benched because they are in the midst of trading him....


How many players have ever signed a second contract with TFC?

TFCRegina
05-05-2011, 02:23 PM
is REDNWHITE a credible source?
(not hating just not ready to jump on anyones say so, im sure you can respect that)

I've heard from other people other than him that he's been sat because he won't agree to TFC's terms for a contract (they want to sign him for longer than he wants to agree to).

I put REDNWHITE's comments in the realm of the completely plausible and quite believable, especially since his trade value drops to zero in a few months and he can sign elsewhere.

__wowza
05-05-2011, 02:44 PM
How many players have ever signed a second contract with TFC?

never actually thought about that.



MIND = BLOWN.

http://thebellhop.tripod.com/images/Scanners.gif

ManUtd4ever
05-05-2011, 02:53 PM
How many players have ever signed a second contract with TFC?

The only noteable player I can think of off the top of my head is Barrett...

TFCwestcan
05-05-2011, 03:01 PM
Just curious, has anyone ever successfully predicted a Winter line-up?

A successful guess has to include Harden & Peterson...

If Gordon is injured, Santos moves to the top and Plata in the attacking mid role.

arsenal
05-05-2011, 03:46 PM
A successful guess has to include Harden & Peterson...

If Gordon is injured, Santos moves to the top and Plata in the attacking mid role.

Had thought about that but cant see it happening ... he is too small to put in the middle. My guess is Stevanovic (if healthy) to the AM with Plata taking his place outside.

__wowza
05-05-2011, 03:53 PM
Had thought about that but cant see it happening ... he is too small to put in the middle. My guess is Stevanovic (if healthy) to the AM with Plata taking his place outside.

plata is a born winger but i'd say martina. he seems creative enough to be able to plug the gap if there's an injury.

is anyone else salivating at the concept of nicholas lindsay returning and being paired with plata on the wings?

trane
05-05-2011, 04:44 PM
I would like to see Plata tried, for a spell at least, as a CM/ACM, I like his vision, distribution and passing accuracy.


I agree that he is small, but he seems willing and able to distribute the ball, and put it into very dangerous places, I think Stevanovic could do the same, but he has shown to be less willing, on this team at least.

Whoop
05-05-2011, 04:47 PM
The only noteable player I can think of off the top of my head is Barrett...

Didn't Robinson sign a 2nd one too?

MG42
05-05-2011, 05:20 PM
Nana Attakora is gone....he is being purposely benched because they are in the midst of trading him....


Maybe pulling a Gerba?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/JSAN/F16-bailout.jpg

^I can't remember who made this might have been BC hahaha

69Chevy396
05-05-2011, 07:27 PM
How many players have ever signed a second contract with TFC?
How can they trade a player only a year after being considered an untouchable, while sending Gargan out there in his place? Is this team fucked up or what? From what I am watching on the pitch, the experienced players have given up, and the new, younger ones are simply not good enough. My prediction, 4 nil Houston over us.

ManUtd4ever
05-05-2011, 07:28 PM
Didn't Robinson sign a 2nd one too?

Good call...

Derko
05-05-2011, 09:21 PM
^ Right now there is only one anonymous source saying t. I am not saying it's wrong, but I'm not ready to jump to any conclusions either...

Nor am I, just saying it would be a shame.

TFCREDNWHITE
05-05-2011, 10:29 PM
is REDNWHITE a credible source?
(not hating just not ready to jump on anyones say so, im sure you can respect that)

My info comes straight from two different players inside the locker room, so ya, pretty credible...

brad
05-05-2011, 10:36 PM
I've heard that Nana is out as well.

On the central mid-front - I'd like to see Cordon getting more minutes. That kid looks to be a hell of a prospect, and if this season is the write off it looks to be, lets see the talent of the future getting some time.

TFCREDNWHITE
05-05-2011, 10:39 PM
I also want to tell you guys about something else that is posing a problem in the locker room...

There are situations developing where lines are being drawn between the coach/coaching style/tactics and how this is affecting morale....

I personally put my trust in the system and Aron Winter....but there is a lot of dissent from some of the players that cant or don't know how to play the system...these same players are getting super pissed off at Aron Winter for changing formation and tactics on the fly..(as seen in seattle, players gave up...because one of the formations called for by Winter was only practiced ONCE! Haha lol)

I don't know, but ill leave it up to you guys to discuss

los sonadores
05-06-2011, 01:41 AM
His value must be sky high right now. Can't wait to see what gold we'll attract with our new 3rd round superdraft pick.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Attakora gone. I wonder to where? San Jose? Difficult to get similar quality in return. An international roster spot or allocation $ might be the best to hope for.

los sonadores
05-06-2011, 03:10 AM
Interesting stat from the Sun:

"MLS teams are 0-9-11 when travelling across three time zones. Sure, Houston sits a single zone away, but the distance travelled is similar."

Despite the 'parity' certain things are frustratingly predictable in MLS.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-06-2011, 06:25 AM
I also want to tell you guys about something else that is posing a problem in the locker room...

There are situations developing where lines are being drawn between the coach/coaching style/tactics and how this is affecting morale....

I personally put my trust in the system and Aron Winter....but there is a lot of dissent from some of the players that cant or don't know how to play the system...these same players are getting super pissed off at Aron Winter for changing formation and tactics on the fly..(as seen in seattle, players gave up...because one of the formations called for by Winter was only practiced ONCE! Haha lol)

I don't know, but ill leave it up to you guys to discuss

seems to be a regular problem with the club, if thats an issue clean em out, we want fighters not superstars or babies. curious to see whos involved in that.

Unfortunate about Nana, cant imagine we'll get a premium for him, also cant imagine he's going to be first place in a first league any where in europe. Kids good but still needs work. too bad it isnt working out here. hopefully we will need a much needed attacking mid.

on a diff topic id also really like to see Plata in the hole making plays, regardless of his size hes had great runs and passes, i havent seen too much to indicate hes only ready to play as a winger, hes certainly more ready to pass than stevanovic

Ossington Mental Youth
05-06-2011, 06:29 AM
id imagine those that are fighting the system and winter arent getting playing time, im gonna start keeping track of it (id venture to argue Nanas one of em)

Brooker
05-06-2011, 06:39 AM
I read it on the internet so it must be true.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-06-2011, 07:09 AM
I read it on the internet so it must be true.

HAHA im still reserving judgement until all is said and done but you gotta admit (its also the only reason im ever on here) good information/gossip has passed through these vines

Ageroo
05-06-2011, 07:20 AM
on a diff topic id also really like to see Plata in the hole making plays, regardless of his size hes had great runs and passes, i havent seen too much to indicate hes only ready to play as a winger, hes certainly more ready to pass than stevanovic

I have been thinking the same as well.....his vision is incredible. At least it has been in the Nutralite matches. He has the skill to play in the hole, but his size may pose a problem as all that clutter only means more physical play inside....I assume he'll get a shot there at some point. We have seen Cordon there...so why not Plata.

Fort York Redcoat
05-06-2011, 08:04 AM
seems to be a regular problem with the club, if thats an issue clean em out, we want fighters not superstars or babies. curious to see whos involved in that.



Agreed Ossi!

More practice than bitching is a good strategy for most players. If it was easy everyone would do it. Earn your excellence.

This Houston team only needs to play as well as their midweek game to get a result out of us as it stands so let's hope for some improvement and we could nic some points at home!

menefreghista
05-06-2011, 08:16 AM
I read it on the internet so it must be true.

If it wasn't for the insiders here giving us extra info on the club we would know very little about what is going.

The media covering this team sucks and never really provides us with anything good.

brad
05-06-2011, 08:17 AM
id imagine those that are fighting the system and winter arent getting playing time, im gonna start keeping track of it (id venture to argue Nanas one of em)

Could also be players whose lack of skill is getting exposed in this system. I'm sure that some are worried about their jobs and would lime to go back to kick and chase where their lack of ability doesn't make them stand out so badly.

ManUtd4ever
05-06-2011, 08:26 AM
I also want to tell you guys about something else that is posing a problem in the locker room...

There are situations developing where lines are being drawn between the coach/coaching style/tactics and how this is affecting morale....

I personally put my trust in the system and Aron Winter....but there is a lot of dissent from some of the players that cant or don't know how to play the system...these same players are getting super pissed off at Aron Winter for changing formation and tactics on the fly..(as seen in seattle, players gave up...because one of the formations called for by Winter was only practiced ONCE! Haha lol)

I don't know, but ill leave it up to you guys to discuss

Well, if this speculation is valid, I'm also inclined to believe that the dissent is coming from players that have seen little to no playing time in recent weeks. Perhaps that is the reason why projected starters like Nana and Sturgis have been writhing on the bench.

If that's the case, the next logical step would be to parlay the surplus of unhappy players into tangible assets to bolster the weakest areas of the roster. I think Nana and Sturgis have enough combined trade value to acquire a decent MLS calibre attacking midfielder.

menefreghista
05-06-2011, 08:41 AM
If that's the case, the next logical step would be to parlay the surplus of unhappy players into tangible assets to bolster the weakest areas of the roster. I think Nana and Sturgis have enough combined trade value to acquire a decent MLS calibre attacking midfielder.

This isn't fantasy hockey were you package two players and get one better player off some GM that has no clue.

Due to poor performances and lack of playing time we will probably get very little for either Nana or Sturgis.

Dreadlocks
05-06-2011, 08:47 AM
I swear, with this team there always has to be something and unfortunately that something has never been winning.

This shit is getting boring and predictable.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-06-2011, 08:49 AM
Could also be players whose lack of skill is getting exposed in this system. I'm sure that some are worried about their jobs and would lime to go back to kick and chase where their lack of ability doesn't make them stand out so badly.

yeah, wouldnt surprise me what so ever


This isn't fantasy hockey were you package two players and get one better player off some GM that has no clue.

Due to poor performances and lack of playing time we will probably get very little for either Nana or Sturgis.

i know what youre saying, these are not bad players (more Nana than Sturgis) they just dont seem to be fitting under our current situation, i dont think we will be signing a Ferreira but i dont think we'd sign a total crap player either. Its here that we put trust in Mariner.

ManUtd4ever
05-06-2011, 08:53 AM
This isn't fantasy hockey were you package two players and get one better player off some GM that has no clue.

Due to poor performances and lack of playing time we will probably get very little for either Nana or Sturgis.

I disagree. Nana and Sturgis have enough experience in the league to summize that most GM's would base their collective worth on the potential they've demonstrated in the past few years, and not solely on their current situations in Toronto.

I didn't state that Mariner could acquire a MLS all star, but a starting calibre attacking midfielder is surely within reason.

Based on the impressive return that Mariner was able to negotiate in the Labrocca and DeRo transactions, I stand by my opinion.

bdiddy
05-06-2011, 08:58 AM
If these players can't manage the system, then maybe they shouldn't be playing football.

Maybe fooseball is better for them. Since positioning is a little more... static.


I also want to tell you guys about something else that is posing a problem in the locker room...

There are situations developing where lines are being drawn between the coach/coaching style/tactics and how this is affecting morale....

I personally put my trust in the system and Aron Winter....but there is a lot of dissent from some of the players that cant or don't know how to play the system...these same players are getting super pissed off at Aron Winter for changing formation and tactics on the fly..(as seen in seattle, players gave up...because one of the formations called for by Winter was only practiced ONCE! Haha lol)

I don't know, but ill leave it up to you guys to discuss

DangerRed
05-06-2011, 10:11 AM
Interesting stat from the Sun:

"MLS teams are 0-9-11 when travelling across three time zones. Sure, Houston sits a single zone away, but the distance travelled is similar."

Despite the 'parity' certain things are frustratingly predictable in MLS.

Don't get too frustrated - we'll still catch a beating on Saturday. You heard it here first.

EDIT: Also, flight to Toronto from Houston is 3, 3.5 hrs tops (I've done it before). To cross three time zones, a la Van or Colorado, you'd have to fly double that.

Villa TFC
05-06-2011, 11:31 AM
I still want to know how/why we got Sturgis. We signed him at a time when we were dumping everyone else. We had no coach, no manager and no director of player development. All we had was Cochrane, so it was presumably his decision...but why? He wasn't a big name available on the cheap. He didn't have some super-amazing track record nor was he touted as the next big thing, so at a time when we're getting rid of half the players, what possessed Cochrane to signed Sturgis? Clearly Winter is as puzzled by his acquisition as I am.

As for dissent in the locker room, it could well be rumblings from those on the fringe as there are a number that aren't getting much playing time who likely expected to (Soolsma, Sturgis, Zavarise, Omphroy etc)...or perhaps it's someone who is playing regularly but who so enjoyed the power they wielded last summer when they revolted against Preki that they want to do it all over again.

menefreghista
05-06-2011, 11:50 AM
We didn't really sign Sturgis, we traded our 1st round pick for him.

And yes, Cochrane had to have been behind the move.

Why Cochrane was making moves as the interim GM is another story completely. I know Winter and Mariner were hired later, but I would have preferred if they had decided what to do with that draft pick.

Technorgasm
05-06-2011, 12:07 PM
Our brilliant #10. . if he starts will be getting on teh score sheet.


you heard it here first.

__wowza
05-06-2011, 12:08 PM
I know Winter and Mariner were hired later, but I would have preferred if they had decided what to do with that draft pick.

god forbid we use that draft pick the year:

- we commit to building a new $20 mil training facility.
- the reserve league comes back.
- we have the ajax youth management team heading us.
:smilielol5:

oh. we laugh to keep ourselves from crying.

Pachuco
05-06-2011, 12:10 PM
I still want to know how/why we got Sturgis. We signed him at a time when we were dumping everyone else. We had no coach, no manager and no director of player development. All we had was Cochrane, so it was presumably his decision...but why? He wasn't a big name available on the cheap. He didn't have some super-amazing track record nor was he touted as the next big thing, so at a time when we're getting rid of half the players, what possessed Cochrane to signed Sturgis? Clearly Winter is as puzzled by his acquisition as I am.

As for dissent in the locker room, it could well be rumblings from those on the fringe as there are a number that aren't getting much playing time who likely expected to (Soolsma, Sturgis, Zavarise, Omphroy etc)...or perhaps it's someone who is playing regularly but who so enjoyed the power they wielded last summer when they revolted against Preki that they want to do it all over again.

We traded Sturgis for the 8th overall pick. Which Vancouver ended up drafting some dude that hasn't even played yet even with all the cards/injury problems they've had. At the time Cochrane said we took Sturgis over the pick because there wasn't anyone we could have drafted that was of more value then Sturgis and no one that interested TFC.

So, if you look at Vancouver trying to trade Michael Nanchoff right now and us trying to trade Sturgis, I'm not so sure it was a bad decision. This is just my opinion, but Sturgis will fetch more at this point. Honestly, only time will tell with decisions like these. You can't just make a blind statement questioning why we picked up a player when you don't know what we lost for him.

DangerRed
05-06-2011, 12:13 PM
Our brilliant #10. . if he starts will be getting on teh score sheet.


you heard it here first.

Agree - #10 is brilliant, most technically skilled player on this team. I hope he starts, but I'm not too optimistic about it happening.

__wowza
05-06-2011, 12:18 PM
personally, i feel (i've stated elsewhere) that nana isn't being played by winter, as a matter of his contract. why would you play someone who might be departing in the next couple of weeks? some might argue that it's his job as the manager to get us the most points he can by playing his strongest hand, but look at it this way..

we aren't pushing for the playoffs.
there's no real urgency to pick up points.
it's been stated a rebuild is in progress.

i'd be slighted to disagree that it's winter's job to get us as many points as he can, but for this season and this season only. the objective of this season, my hope at least, is to see tangible improvement in our on field product.


how do you do that?
by stopping the revolving door of players.

how do you do that?
by creating a core group of players we can rely on.


if you have a player whose unwilling to re-sign a contract due to doubts over whether or not they can see themselves with the club past two years, then i support the management team.

the thing that gets me is the addition of a mojo sized psychological fuck factor to the equation. look at it this way. the implied contract holdout is because nana isn't looking to commit to anything yet and apparently we want to sign him for longer than he's comfortable with, as a result, he doesn't get any first team playing time.

will that diminish his value on the TM? hell no.
will that impact his performance? hell yes.

you would be hard up to find a coach in any league who would think "man, this potential investment for the next 2-3 years can't start right away? well.. im just not going to sign him/ask to sign him for $40,000 less!!". what it does do however, is have this lack of first team experience reflect on whoever he signs with. if it happens to be another MLS squad, they've just landed a defender that will need to get back up to first team fitness, shake of the rust AND learn to mesh with their new team.

Villa TFC
05-06-2011, 12:23 PM
You can't just make a blind statement questioning why we picked up a player when you don't know what we lost for him.

I knew what we lost for him, but when you have a salary cap, I would have thought that sometimes "no" player is better than "any" player. Your explanation makes sense and I hadn't thought about the long-term (or short-term) trade-ability of the player. If that was the criteria, then I agree that Sturgis was probably preferable to the 8th pick in a weak draft.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-06-2011, 12:24 PM
As for dissent in the locker room, it could well be rumblings from those on the fringe as there are a number that aren't getting much playing time who likely expected to (Soolsma, Sturgis, Zavarise, Omphroy etc)...or perhaps it's someone who is playing regularly but who so enjoyed the power they wielded last summer when they revolted against Preki that they want to do it all over again.

Could be but i doubt it as not one of them has proven themselves quite yet and im certain that especially if they were brought here, that they will have their chance and that whinging about it wont make it any faster, i bet its people that got regular playing time last year, and cant fit into the current system, just makes sense, i bet these kids are just waiting in the wings to play


Agree - #10 is brilliant, most technically skilled player on this team. I hope he starts, but I'm not too optimistic about it happening.

why not? hes played every other game that hes been fit


personally, i feel (i've stated elsewhere) that nana isn't being played by winter, as a matter of his contract. why would you play someone who might be departing in the next couple of weeks? some might argue that it's his job as the manager to get us the most points he can by playing his strongest hand, but look at it this way..


outside of speculation do you have any solid insight to this theory? i kinda figure youd wanna raise his stock, i guess your theory sorta makes sense

Villa TFC
05-06-2011, 12:41 PM
Could be but i doubt it as not one of them has proven themselves quite yet and im certain that especially if they were brought here, that they will have their chance and that whinging about it wont make it any faster, i bet its people that got regular playing time last year, and cant fit into the current system, just makes sense, i bet these kids are just waiting in the wings to play


I agree about the new guys. Winter 'rescued' a number of guys whose careers had stalled because of injury or lack of opportunity and gave them a second (and possibly only) chance. I can't see any of those guys stirring up trouble.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-06-2011, 12:48 PM
ftr was just checking RSLs first season with Kreis and it was 6-15-9, next year it was 10-10-10 and they got booted by NYRB from Western conference finals only in their 3rd year becoming what they are now, interesting stuff tho, alot of fat shed along the way

gomesv
05-06-2011, 12:52 PM
Agree - #10 is brilliant, most technically skilled player on this team. I hope he starts, but I'm not too optimistic about it happening.


"Brilliant" wow I'm speechless...... So far, minus the game in San Jose he hasn't really done a damn thing to earn extra playing time... maybe has to learn to involve other players on his team. :rolleyes:

__wowza
05-06-2011, 01:05 PM
outside of speculation do you have any solid insight to this theory? i kinda figure youd wanna raise his stock, i guess your theory sorta makes sense

i'm just trying to connect the dots, (i may be way off the mark on this though) but mostly every move winter has made is to see who fits during a season that's basically been deemed a throwaway. other managers would KILL to be able to write off a season of losing games like this in the name of progress, but look at what he's done:


roster shuffles
playing people out of position
sticking with a new formation


one of the greatest qualities of a footballer is the ability to adapt. adapt to your team, adapt to the other team, adapt to changes in play, and what he's doing right now is seeing what works.

he's doing what most teams do over the course of 3 years and attempting to do it in ONE. there's a reason why he's playing certain players outt've position and that's because he's obviously seen something in them that proves they can play out of position, even if they don't look comfortable doing it just yet. look at gareth bale playing for tottenham, starting LB, until good ol 'arry moved him to MID. yet he can also play LB when needed. van der vart, plays wide, but has been moved to sole AM for most of the champions league campaign.

it's not about making someone as good as their favourite position. it's about making them amazing in their favourite position, but still winning XI quality if they're needed elsewhere.

i don't think he's a dumb man, nor do i think he doesn't know what he's doing, that he's naive or that he doesn't understand the MLS. his lack of explanation to roster shuffles is perfectly logical when the only other option is basically to explain to everyone (including his opponents) that he wants maicon santos to be able to play both striker/attacking mid when needed. i think it's a matter of playing it all close to the vest.


so i think my point in this is where it comes back to nana attakora..
if he's knowingly being benched because there's a contract issue, it's because winter doesn't want to waste his time getting everyone comfortable with him if he's just planning to leave.

__wowza
05-06-2011, 01:07 PM
a mojo sized psychological fuck factor

also, i'd just like to state my intention to make this a saying. :D

menefreghista
05-06-2011, 01:07 PM
We traded Sturgis for the 8th overall pick. Which Vancouver ended up drafting some dude that hasn't even played yet even with all the cards/injury problems they've had. At the time Cochrane said we took Sturgis over the pick because there wasn't anyone we could have drafted that was of more value then Sturgis and no one that interested TFC.

So, if you look at Vancouver trying to trade Michael Nanchoff right now and us trying to trade Sturgis, I'm not so sure it was a bad decision. This is just my opinion, but Sturgis will fetch more at this point. Honestly, only time will tell with decisions like these. You can't just make a blind statement questioning why we picked up a player when you don't know what we lost for him.

The thing is you have to consider that we could have drafted other players, it didn't have to be the guy Vancouver took.

Just quickly going over the draft, the 2 guys taken after Nanchoff have both played: Jalil Anibaba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalil_Anibaba) has made 5 MLS starts for the Fire and scored in the Open Cup, C. J. Sapong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._Sapong) has made 6 starts for KC. Both guys have played more than Sturgis this season.

Edit: 11th overall pick Will Bruin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Bruin) has 4 goals and 1 assist for Houston in 8 starts. That's pretty impressive for a draft pick.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-06-2011, 01:58 PM
i'm just trying to connect the dots, (i may be way off the mark on this though) but mostly every move winter has made is to see who fits during a season that's basically been deemed a throwaway. other managers would KILL to be able to write off a season of losing games like this in the name of progress, but look at what he's done:


roster shuffles
playing people out of position
sticking with a new formation


one of the greatest qualities of a footballer is the ability to adapt. adapt to your team, adapt to the other team, adapt to changes in play, and what he's doing right now is seeing what works.

he's doing what most teams do over the course of 3 years and attempting to do it in ONE. there's a reason why he's playing certain players outt've position and that's because he's obviously seen something in them that proves they can play out of position, even if they don't look comfortable doing it just yet. look at gareth bale playing for tottenham, starting LB, until good ol 'arry moved him to MID. yet he can also play LB when needed. van der vart, plays wide, but has been moved to sole AM for most of the champions league campaign.

it's not about making someone as good as their favourite position. it's about making them amazing in their favourite position, but still winning XI quality if they're needed elsewhere.

i don't think he's a dumb man, nor do i think he doesn't know what he's doing, that he's naive or that he doesn't understand the MLS. his lack of explanation to roster shuffles is perfectly logical when the only other option is basically to explain to everyone (including his opponents) that he wants maicon santos to be able to play both striker/attacking mid when needed. i think it's a matter of playing it all close to the vest.


so i think my point in this is where it comes back to nana attakora..
if he's knowingly being benched because there's a contract issue, it's because winter doesn't want to waste his time getting everyone comfortable with him if he's just planning to leave.


does make sense, it is pretty ballsy to take a season to do it, especially with the fans being in such a state of discontent, i mean i dont mind him doing it provided we get results (and theres nothing saying we will).

Darlofletch
05-06-2011, 02:12 PM
gordon's out ap luke wileman's twitter.

so i guess santos up top, martina and plata on the wings, stevanovic as AM?

DangerRed
05-06-2011, 02:14 PM
why not? hes played every other game that hes been fit




Not optimistic that he'll be fit. That's what I was saying.

DangerRed
05-06-2011, 02:17 PM
"Brilliant" wow I'm speechless...... So far, minus the game in San Jose he hasn't really done a damn thing to earn extra playing time... maybe has to learn to involve other players on his team. :rolleyes:

You clearly haven't watch him stand there, minute after minute, completely unmarked on the wing, with his arms raised calling for the ball while Gargan or JDG muddle through another pass to nowhere.

No wonder then that when he does get it, he tries to do more with it himself than to pass it to Donleigh Borman so that he can cross it into the beer garden.

Ossington Mental Youth
05-06-2011, 02:33 PM
Not optimistic that he'll be fit. That's what I was saying.

gotcha

bgnewf
05-06-2011, 03:01 PM
TFC v Houston Pre Game

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/05/tfc-v-houston-pre-game/

Some pre-game thoughts ahead of Toronto FC's match Saturday vs the Houston Dynamo. In this post I express concern about Alan Gordon picking up another injury, I break down some of the head to head historical numbers and I offer some unsolicited advice to Aron Winter on how to help out his beleaguered central defenders. Comments are always welcome and appreciated.

markus
05-06-2011, 05:54 PM
LukeWileman (http://twitter.com/#%21/LukeWileman) Luke Wileman



Houston missing attacking threat tomorrow. Brian Ching ruled out of match against #torontofc (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23torontofc) with injury.

gomesv
05-06-2011, 06:47 PM
You clearly haven't watch him stand there, minute after minute, completely unmarked on the wing, with his arms raised calling for the ball while Gargan or JDG muddle through another pass to nowhere.

No wonder then that when he does get it, he tries to do more with it himself than to pass it to Donleigh Borman so that he can cross it into the beer garden.

fair enough, he doesn't have the best talent around him to work with, however he's not here on lone because he was lighting it up in Serie B in Italy...... I hope he does well, but your giving him undeserved credit right now.

sashavukelich
05-06-2011, 07:35 PM
You clearly haven't watch him stand there, minute after minute, completely unmarked on the wing, with his arms raised calling for the ball while Gargan or JDG muddle through another pass to nowhere.

No wonder then that when he does get it, he tries to do more with it himself than to pass it to Donleigh Borman so that he can cross it into the beer garden.




haha well said. I personally am not really bothered if NANA goes, i think its' just a component of professional sports that players move. He really has looked poor this season and i doubt it's over his contract, maybe he's just not up to a less 'kick and run' style of play? Regardless, we'll wish him well, he didn't cost us anything, and maybe we can trade for a relatively competent MLS defender? Who knows.

jloome
05-07-2011, 12:36 AM
Personally, given how little he's played this year, I think anyone writing off Attakora's value to us because of one bad game is forgetting how much he's accomplished up until now and how consistently excellent he was until a new coach arrived.

I'm not saying it's Winter's fault, but perhaps the guy who keep starting Ty Harden, Jacob Peterson at Defensive midfielder and Maicon Santos as a midfielder doesn't have the greatest sense of his players' capabilities. I mean, would anyone looking at Adrian Cann think he'd be a good left back in this league?

And I don't buy that it's simply an acceptance Attakora was leaving given that he's made public statements that he wants to stay and sign a new deal here.

TFCRegina
05-07-2011, 01:38 AM
Personally, given how little he's played this year, I think anyone writing off Attakora's value to us because of one bad game is forgetting how much he's accomplished up until now and how consistently excellent he was until a new coach arrived.

I'm not saying it's Winter's fault, but perhaps the guy who keep starting Ty Harden, Jacob Peterson at Defensive midfielder and Maicon Santos as a midfielder doesn't have the greatest sense of his players' capabilities. I mean, would anyone looking at Adrian Cann think he'd be a good left back in this league?

And I don't buy that it's simply an acceptance Attakora was leaving given that he's made public statements that he wants to stay and sign a new deal here.

They're well aware of his capabilities. There's other forces at work here.

Pachuco
05-07-2011, 10:54 AM
Personally, given how little he's played this year, I think anyone writing off Attakora's value to us because of one bad game is forgetting how much he's accomplished up until now and how consistently excellent he was until a new coach arrived.

I'm not saying it's Winter's fault, but perhaps the guy who keep starting Ty Harden, Jacob Peterson at Defensive midfielder and Maicon Santos as a midfielder doesn't have the greatest sense of his players' capabilities. I mean, would anyone looking at Adrian Cann think he'd be a good left back in this league?

And I don't buy that it's simply an acceptance Attakora was leaving given that he's made public statements that he wants to stay and sign a new deal here.

Yeap, completely agree. Lots of "what have you done for me lately" going on here with some people's opinion of Nana.

I'd also like to say that Nana was the only decent defender I saw in preseason. Based on the way he was playing I thought he was going to step up as a leader on the field this year. That's taken a massive 180 turn and I really don't think it's got to do with the first couple of appearances he made in regular season. There's definately more to this.

ManUtd4ever
05-07-2011, 11:26 AM
After DeRo was traded, I thought highly enough of Nana that I suggested he be promoted to captain. The uncertainty and speculation surrounding his immediate future with TFC is definitely disconcerting. Perhaps the truth will surface at some point.

What has been glaringly obvious is that he has not played well at all in his limited appearances this season for one reason or another. I would like to believe that he will be given the chance to recapture his form as a defensive anchor on this club but unfortunately, that scenario seems unlikely at this point.

CBTFC
05-07-2011, 12:08 PM
so i guess santos up top, martina and plata on the wings

I've been saying this for weeks...and with stevanovic right behind them. drool.

Soccer-Ts
05-07-2011, 12:20 PM
After DeRo was traded, I thought highly enough of Nana that I suggested he be promoted to captain. The uncertainty and speculation surrounding his immediate future with TFC is definitely disconcerting. Perhaps the truth will surface at some point.

Definitely disconcerting. Nana was so good last year. Some of his performances were all-star calibre (@40k).


What has been glaringly obvious is that he has not played well at all in his limited appearances this season for one reason or another. I would like to believe that he will be given the chance to recapture his form as a defensive anchor on this club but unfortunately, that scenario seems unlikely at this point.

I think he's given up on this outfit. They won't give him the money he wants and then they bring in Dicoy Williams, a pretty decent CB, Jamaican international, to take over his job so . . . goodbye Nana.

Auzzy
05-07-2011, 01:01 PM
^ I thought that Nana said in an interview that money isn't the issue? Nana said he is not sure about the direction the club is heading in, and wants a shorter deal...? (His contract is expiring this year.) TFC want a longer deal...? (So you could say, in the long term it might be a matter of $'s if Nana thinks he can strike it rich with a different club in the future.)

JuliquE
05-07-2011, 02:22 PM
Hold on..

.. didn't Nana say that he was, now, satisfied with the direction of the club (new management staff brought in)?! I thought that was why he was unwilling to sign a long contract.

Seems that he's not shown enough to earn a consistent starting spot, this season.. which, I think, might be more responsible for him holding out.

The club (Winter, in particular) has been very candid about the various offers they've made and, for me, they have been reasonable (i.e. De Ro & Cann, come to mind). I can't imagine anything less being the case, as it concerns Nana.

He showed well in a team built to play a defensive brand of football; he still has much to learn and I think it would do him some good to just put his head down and try to work his way back in. Attitude goes a long way.

Mark TFC
05-07-2011, 04:05 PM
Come on you Reds!

barticusz
05-07-2011, 04:33 PM
So what are the chances these rumours are true about Nana not being happy?

How many Canadian soccer players have bad attitudes and a resistance to change? DeRo, Gerba, Cann, and now Nana..

Sad state of affairs.

TFCRegina
05-07-2011, 04:39 PM
So what are the chances these rumours are true about Nana not being happy?

How many Canadian soccer players have bad attitudes and a resistance to change? DeRo, Gerba, Cann, and now Nana..

Sad state of affairs.

Or maybe the problem is with the upper management at TFC which has been blamed by a number of people already for being inflexible and unwilling to treat its players well.

Nana's unhappy with his contract. De Ro was unhappy with his contract. Gerba wasn't given a fair shake. Cann was unhappy with his contract. Robinson, Barrett and Cronin were shipped off at a moments notice. The list goes on and on. TFC doesn't treat its players well.

flamehawk
05-07-2011, 04:47 PM
Or maybe the problem is with the upper management at TFC which has been blamed by a number of people already for being inflexible and unwilling to treat its players well.

Nana's unhappy with his contract. De Ro was unhappy with his contract. Gerba wasn't given a fair shake. Cann was unhappy with his contract. Robinson, Barrett and Cronin were shipped off at a moments notice. The list goes on and on. TFC doesn't treat its players well.

I believe this is more likely the case. Just way too coincidental to have so many players taking issue. And from my understanding of things, I still don't believe Cann and many other players were at fault.

As others have stated, this is really worrying for Toronto's long term growth considering TFC's likely poor reputation as a result of these dealings.

Batman
05-07-2011, 05:45 PM
fyi guys... the blue jays just got no hit.

first at rogers centre in 21 years

C.Barrett19
05-07-2011, 05:52 PM
any links?

ParadymeTFC
05-07-2011, 05:55 PM
http://www.justin.tv/cholillo_830#/w/1174564096/4 Will probably steam it.

C.Barrett19
05-07-2011, 05:58 PM
thx :)

Soccer-Ts
05-07-2011, 06:08 PM
Justin Verlander, it figures. He's Doc Halladay good, that's how good his stuff is.

Super Cereal
05-07-2011, 06:17 PM
I wish people would put the time of the game in these threads, hate having to go on Major League Soccer Soccer.

Davenport
05-07-2011, 06:23 PM
One question.
Who's going to score for us ?