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Walnut
05-03-2011, 03:37 PM
What is the point of employing a system that none of your players can thrive within?

Is this year (and perhaps next) all about Aron Winter's education as a professional coach...?

bdiddy
05-03-2011, 03:50 PM
Whats the point of a posting, where there's no real posting?

ExiledRed
05-03-2011, 04:48 PM
shit.... for a moment I thought someone was about to elaborate on what Winter's system is.

oh well.

Dave67
05-03-2011, 05:00 PM
The system is, rotate every single player you have access to through the first team. Then go to MLSE and say 'well I tried to use what I inherited and it does not work. Now you have 2 options. Option 1 go back to Klinsmann and tell him he does not know shit about evaluating new coaches. Option 2 we drop damn near every one and start from scratch with only players I have selected. It's the only way Jurgen and I can be held accountable'

What do you think? It's all I'm left with.

Hitcho
05-03-2011, 05:03 PM
The system is, rotate every single player you have access to through the first team. Then go to MLSE and say 'well I tried to use what I inherited and it does not work. Now you have 2 options. Option 1 go back to Klinsmann and tell him he does not know shit about evaluating new coaches. Option 2 we drop damn near every one and start from scratch with only players I have selected. It's the only way Jurgen and I can be held accountable'

What do you think? It's all I'm left with.

Disturbingly, that may not be too far from how it goes down!

Hands up if you think we'll make the play offs before year ten... :facepalm:

ensco
05-03-2011, 05:16 PM
Here's the system:

Winter found 4 envelopes on his desk when he arrived. The first said, after losing 3 games, open this envelope: They did, he did, the letter in the envelope said: "Blame the referees".

The second says, after losing 5 more games, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Blame the players"
(Winter is smart, he's already getting there without the envelope)

The third says, after losing an additional 5 games, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Blame the media"

The fourth says, after the season ends, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Prepare 4 envelopes"

You're welcome.

ag futbol
05-03-2011, 05:51 PM
What is the point of employing a system that none of your players can thrive within?

I think we can (safely) assume that the "system" is a moving target at this point. It probably starts with something like 4-3-3 but it's going to need some tweaking to make it pragmatic enough to work within a salary cap league like TFC. Also needs to account for the physicality.

But if you really wanted a theme from me so far this season it would be: Our signings have not made enough of an impact. They should really be the great equalizer when it came to rebuilding our team this year. As it stands they have not worked out that way.

There have been a few guys who have just come here and done nothing of value (Soolsma, Williams) and others who after inspired stars have yet to really contribute on a major level consistently (Martina, Stevanovic).

Beach_Red
05-03-2011, 05:55 PM
The system is, rotate every single player you have access to through the first team. Then go to MLSE and say 'well I tried to use what I inherited and it does not work. Now you have 2 options. Option 1 go back to Klinsmann and tell him he does not know shit about evaluating new coaches. Option 2 we drop damn near every one and start from scratch with only players I have selected. It's the only way Jurgen and I can be held accountable'

What do you think? It's all I'm left with.

Ensco's post is funny, but imagining that anyone at MLSE even knows the players names now that DeRo is gone may be funnier.

dow117
05-03-2011, 08:38 PM
System shlystem !!... Total Football a la Vinter is simply possession football in a 4-3-3 formation. Nothing magical & all it needs is players that are comfortable on the ball and off the ball moving into space to receive the frickin ball. We have players that are uncomfortable and moving into the wrong spaces. Once that is solved, MLS Cup here we come !!!

ilikemusic
05-03-2011, 08:48 PM
Winter's system is very similar to Mo's system. The primary focus is maintaining job security by lowering expectations and preaching patience.

Bars92
05-03-2011, 09:16 PM
Total Football used by Holland to beat Brazil in the 70s or something like that..

Oldtimer
05-03-2011, 09:29 PM
Wow. Threads like this bring out the most cynical.

I have a lot more hope than you guys. Why are you even following this team if it's so bad?

MG42
05-03-2011, 09:34 PM
PQWATe55U_4&feature

EDIT - Oldtimer deleted his RSL comment so this video makes no sense now lol

Dave67
05-03-2011, 09:44 PM
Wow. Threads like this bring out the most cynical.

I have a lot more hope than you guys. Why are you even following this team if it's so bad?

Says the person who started the cut season ticket prices thread. If you have so much faith then take a flyer that next years team will be so good your extra tickets will sell like hotcakes.

boban
05-03-2011, 09:56 PM
Here's the system:

Winter found 4 envelopes on his desk when he arrived. The first said, after losing 3 games, open this envelope: They did, he did, the letter in the envelope said: "Blame the referees".

The second says, after losing 5 more games, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Blame the players"
(Winter is smart, he's already getting there without the envelope)

The third says, after losing an additional 5 games, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Blame the media"

The fourth says, after the season ends, open this envelope: When he does, the letter in the envelope will say: "Prepare 4 envelopes"

You're welcome.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're hilarious esco. love reading your posts.

But to be fair, it's not going to be that bad. They will get a win or two in there to foil the envelope plan.
lol

ExiledRed
05-03-2011, 11:01 PM
Wow. Threads like this bring out the most cynical.


I know, you must be dying to close it.



I have a lot more hope than you guys. Why are you even following this team if it's so bad?

Cause if we leave it in the hands of sycophants, it wont get any better, and we wont get another team to support instead.

Also your question is a huge fucking insult to a lot of people who spent a lot of money, time and enegy on this team only to see it passed around the coaching D-list.

MG42
05-04-2011, 04:54 AM
I know, you must be dying to close it.




Cause if we leave it in the hands of sycophants, it wont get any better, and we wont get another team to support instead.

Also your question is a huge fucking insult to a lot of people who spent a lot of money, time and enegy on this team only to see it passed around the coaching D-list.


http://www.blogcdn.com/www.aolnews.com/media/2010/09/mlstorontoprekisoccer.f61317b1762a4dd498c299725255 f774.jpg

"I eeeeeeeee resemble such remark!"

Oldtimer
05-04-2011, 06:28 AM
I know, you must be dying to close it.



What is that supposed to mean? We don't close threads because of mere disagreements. Why the hate?





Cause if we leave it in the hands of sycophants, it wont get any better, and we wont get another team to support instead.

Also your question is a huge fucking insult to a lot of people who spent a lot of money, time and enegy on this team only to see it passed around the coaching D-list.

I guess you would have trouble with U-Sector then, their board is full of "don't stop believing." I guess they are sycophants. :rolleyes:

I keep wondering why our board is the one that attracts people who spend their time insulting people who have at least some hope that we might be seeing a good future. We get called "sycophants" and "Leaf fans."

I think that we are following the same path as RSL did. I expect the same results. A terrible 2011, followed by making the playoffs in 2012. Do you think that we can go through this year without having a terrible result? Steve Clarke himself couldn't produce a winning team in the first year given MLS roster restrictions. I had no illusions about this year, and I don't think it reflects at all on the quality of Winter's job. The jury is still out on him.

ag futbol
05-04-2011, 08:35 AM
You keep writing that we are going to be RSL, but show me the evidence that we're headed in that direction.

You could have wrote exactly the same thing about Carlos de los Cobos and the Chicago Fire last year. Or if we really want to be extreme, Ruud Gullit and the LA Galaxy.

menefreghista
05-04-2011, 08:43 AM
I know, you must be dying to close it.

LOL.


You keep writing that we are going to be RSL, but show me the evidence that we're headed in that direction.

You could have wrote exactly the same thing about Carlos de los Cobos and the Chicago Fire last year. Or if we really want to be extreme, Ruud Gullit and the LA Galaxy.

I've been wondering that too. So one guy with little experience succeeds and we automatically think it will work here? Especially when there are countless examples of other inexperienced guys who failed.

Winter has never coached professional players before, so essentially we have a guy learning on the job.

ensco
05-04-2011, 08:48 AM
[QUOTE=Oldtimer;1291299]

I keep wondering why our board is the one that attracts people who spend their time insulting people who have at least some hope that we might be seeing a good future. We get called "sycophants" and "Leaf fans."

[qoute]

You are right, if it steps over the line. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, within bounds of civility, and everyone should expect to have those beliefs questioned, within bounds of civility.

I hope your belief is justified. Not much evidence so far.

menefreghista
05-04-2011, 08:53 AM
I keep wondering why our board is the one that attracts people who spend their time insulting people who have at least some hope that we might be seeing a good future. We get called "sycophants" and "Leaf fans."

I could be wrong, but I read that as management at MLSE and TFC as being sycophants. I don't think he was calling the fans that.

Beach_Red
05-04-2011, 08:58 AM
I think that we are following the same path as RSL did. I expect the same results. A terrible 2011, followed by making the playoffs in 2012.


I hope you're right but there are some differences between what TFC is doing and what RSL did. Yes, both coaches are first year, but it wasn't Kreis' first year in MLS and he wasn't trying to "change the culture" and bring a new vision and a new system he was just trying to build on what they had and win games.

And he was hand-picked for the job by an involved owner who really wants to win and TFC's staff was chosen by a consultant - who hasn't been heard from since.

Of course, it could work out really well. But it may take two years instead of one because Winter still needs to learn the league and the other teams, something Kreis didn't need to do.

The real following of RSL would have been if Anselmi got really involved and hand-picked Dichio to take over the team and then hired him an ex-player with a law degree as GM who could handle the negotiations and contracts.

mastermixer
05-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Again, this is where MLSE's mismanagement has shone through once again.

They obviously knew the type of coach Winter wanted to be, and when he was presented to them they should have advised either Klinsmann or Winter that the talent pool of MLS might not be the best for the total football type of system.
If everyone else realized this, how could they not?

Oldtimer
05-04-2011, 09:08 AM
On Beach Red's point: The other difference is that there are still a lot of Mo's guys running things behind the scenes... so it may not work out. But I still have some hope, I'm not quite ready to throw in the towel.

Beach_Red
05-04-2011, 09:14 AM
^ I'm not ready to throw in the towel, either. But you're right, there are a lot of changes that still need to be made beyond just the players so it can take a while.

I still think by the end of this season we'll see some real improvement. If it comes down to the last game of the season for a playoff spot (and it still could, this is MLS) I don;t think the team will collapse in the final game.

ManUtd4ever
05-04-2011, 09:34 AM
At times, the club has seemed to grasp the basic fundamentals of the possession oriented system that Winter is preaching and has looked fairly impressive. At other times, the players have looked completely lost on the pitch. I think the youth, the unfamiliarity of the players on the squad, and curious roster selections (ie. Gargan, Harden, Peterson) are the primary reasons for the inconsistent performances thus far.

It could very well get worse before it gets better, but I believe it will eventually get better.

Derko
05-04-2011, 09:47 AM
Wow. Threads like this bring out the most cynical.

I have a lot more hope than you guys. Why are you even following this team if it's so bad?

Barcelona are the 'Experts' of the Dutch 'Total' Football system, I'm not saying that TFC will be like Barcelona, but that is the system that Winter is trying to develop. I am optimistic that it will develop sooner rather than later.

Cheers to TFC the team I SUPPORT

algieb
05-04-2011, 10:48 AM
way to early to spit out the dummy guys, we are a rowdy lot here in toronto we expect no demand instant results.the fact is we have lost that gameday feeling off fun we were so used to,there was always next game. now we look at the next game and shake our heads,as has been said lets wait till season ends to make decissions on where we are going with this team, a good run will bring back that loving feeling

v00d00daddy
05-04-2011, 11:29 AM
After the first three seasons we wanted results. No matter how they come.

They brought in Preki and once his method wore thin and the results ran dry the masses started talking about the hatred of "anti football". We want attractive football.

So they go out and hire a guy who wants to completely overhaul the club and institute a possession based, attacking, attractive football style.

9 games in and people are back to wanting results. Nothing else matters. And the club is, and will always be a failure.

Hilarious.

I've come to the conclusion that the absolute last thing the club should ever do is listen to the supporters. Lol

menefreghista
05-04-2011, 11:34 AM
I've come to the conclusion that the absolute last thing the club should ever do is listen to the supporters.

The club should be doing this at all times anyways in terms of player selection and tactics. Mariner and Winter should not be influenced by the fans.

The only thing the club should be listening to supporter's about is stuff like making the game day experience better. The customer service portion of the club.

The funny thing is I would love to see this 'attractive' football Winter supporter's talk about. I haven't seen any of that yet. For stretches we've played some of our most boring soccer ever.

ExiledRed
05-04-2011, 11:35 AM
The club should be doing this at all times anyways in terms of player selection and tactics. Mariner and Winter should not be influenced by the fans.

The funny thing is I would love to see this 'attractive' football Winter supporter's talk about. I haven't seen any of that yet. For stretches we've played some of our most boring soccer ever.

The way we finished against Edmonton last week was the worst anti-football Ive ever seen in my life.

menefreghista
05-04-2011, 11:37 AM
The way we finished against Edmonton last week was the worst anti-football Ive ever seen in my life.

Yup.

I even saw one MLS watcher call our play 'anti-football' when commenting on our match against Seattle too.

Just because our coach is Dutch doesn't mean he can't have us playing boring soccer too. Often times I feel like I'm watching a traditional Italian style (slow build up from the back, attack on the counter) than a Dutch style.

ManUtd4ever
05-04-2011, 11:38 AM
The way we finished against Edmonton last week was the worst anti-football Ive ever seen in my life.

True, but if it's deployed to protect a 3-0 lead, I can live with that...

ExiledRed
05-04-2011, 11:45 AM
What is that supposed to mean? We don't close threads because of mere disagreements. Why the hate?




I guess you would have trouble with U-Sector then, their board is full of "don't stop believing." I guess they are sycophants. :rolleyes:

I keep wondering why our board is the one that attracts people who spend their time insulting people who have at least some hope that we might be seeing a good future. We get called "sycophants" and "Leaf fans."

I was directly talking to, you not the collective you are referring to as 'we'

I dont care what is being said on U-sectors board, and dont see the relevance to this discussion.

If you feel insulted, then take consolation that Menfreghista was correct and I would never condescend to call you a 'sycophant' ( i mean that would be completely inaccurate wouldnt it?)

I do find it insulting however that the moment someone disagrees with your theory that everything is going 'according to plan' you infer that they lack knowledge, and question their support.

I mean, if everything is going as it should be, why are you asking for a price cut? Are you just trying to stay with the popular crowd again?

Other than RSL sucked and then got better, can you please illustrate why this means we are going to improve under Winter, and the similarities between Kreis's and Winter's approach?

ExiledRed
05-04-2011, 11:48 AM
True, but if it's deployed to protect a 3-0 lead, I can live with that...


You dont need to protect a 3-0 lead when the opposition is defending and refuses to venture from its own half. Also with only a few miunutes to go, I dont think Edmonton were ever going to equalise.

Huyton
05-04-2011, 11:50 AM
I'm beginning to think that Montreal will make the MLS playoffs before we do.

Walnut
05-04-2011, 12:03 PM
I'm beginning to think that Montreal will make the MLS playoffs before we do.

Quoted for the truth!

Beach_Red
05-04-2011, 12:05 PM
I'm beginning to think that Montreal will make the MLS playoffs before we do.


It's going to get a lot harder to make the MLS playoffs. The gap between the better teams and the rest is really starting to widen and that will just continue. Montreal is going to regret not getting in with Vancouver and Portland and falling even further behind.

Walnut
05-04-2011, 12:10 PM
Montreal is going to regret not getting in with Vancouver and Portland and falling even further behind.

So true - Toronto has benefited enormously performance-wise from being fours years ahead of Vancouver!

ExiledRed
05-04-2011, 12:11 PM
It's going to get a lot harder to make the MLS playoffs. The gap between the better teams and the rest is really starting to widen and that will just continue. Montreal is going to regret not getting in with Vancouver and Portland and falling even further behind.

Are they? apparently if you already have a team, you can skip 'building' or 're-building' and go straight to playing decent football and challenging for the playoffs.

This is why Seattle were doing well in season 1, while Toronto is still developing its plan in season 5 (apparently)

Heathen
05-04-2011, 12:16 PM
After the first three seasons we wanted results. No matter how they come.

They brought in Preki and once his method wore thin and the results ran dry the masses started talking about the hatred of "anti football". We want attractive football.

So they go out and hire a guy who wants to completely overhaul the club and institute a possession based, attacking, attractive football style.

9 games in and people are back to wanting results. Nothing else matters. And the club is, and will always be a failure.

Hilarious.

I've come to the conclusion that the absolute last thing the club should ever do is listen to the supporters. Lol

[Sigh]
I honestly would be ok with losing all 9 games if we'd shown more indication that

1) There is an actual system
2) Winter looked like he might have some in-game tactical nouse
3) The new signings had shown more promise

From previous discussions I know in your opinion all of the above are true. This season I feel that any objective criticism of Winter is being characterized as wanting him sacked and impatient fairweather support. I'm going to stop now and I'll look forward to your reply but won't respond because I can't be bothered to get into all this again.

Oldtimer
05-04-2011, 12:18 PM
I was directly talking to, you not the collective you are referring to as 'we'



Ok, for the sake of clarity, I do not close threads based on mere disagreement. I used "we" because "we" all have the same policy.

I have closed threads that were duplicates of existing threads. I have closed spam threads. I have closed threads that degenerated into insults. I do not close threads because I am optimistic and you are pessimistic.

Your snide remarks are totally inappropriate.




I do find it insulting however that the moment someone disagrees with your theory that everything is going 'according to plan' you infer that they lack knowledge, and question their support.

I mean, if everything is going as it should be, why are you asking for a price cut? Are you just trying to stay with the popular crowd again?


Don't put words in my mouth. I in no way inferred anything about your knowledge, and you know that.

Oldtimer
05-04-2011, 12:26 PM
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=27878&page=2

80% approval rating for Winter.

FreekAce
05-04-2011, 12:30 PM
True, but if it's deployed to protect a 3-0 lead, I can live with that...

yup, count in the fact that our schedule is murder, not continuing to go forward full steam was the smart thing to do. doesnt make for purdy football, but its an understandable tactic.

ExiledRed
05-04-2011, 12:37 PM
yup, count in the fact that our schedule is murder, not continuing to go forward full steam was the smart thing to do. doesnt make for purdy football, but its an understandable tactic.

You're probably right, but it didnt help Saturday anyway.

We didnt need to go full steam, but there were times that we had real options to capitalise with practically zero danger of a counter, and yet we elected to pass it backward with no real intention of getting it forward again.

Ive seen teams do this a lot, and there is a high probability that the opposition decides they dont like what you're doing and suddenly bites your ass, making you look ridiculous.

Dave67
05-04-2011, 12:38 PM
http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=27878&page=2

80% approval rating for Winter.

Sure, I voted for approval.

That does not mean I'm happy with where TFC is at. I'm happy he is giving everyone a shot, that he does not take shit from the players, that he puts no one player higher than the club, that he kicked the media out of the dressing room when he felt it was required, that he calls a 3-0 win not a great game when it was not a great game. I approve of Winter and the process he is taking.

I am annoyed that he can't come up with a stategy to compete with the players he has. He must have determined who can and cannot play the system he wants. If he can't trade them away then he needs to adjust his game plan to make the team more effective.

My world includes room for grey, everything does not have to be black and white.

Beach_Red
05-04-2011, 12:42 PM
Are they? apparently if you already have a team, you can skip 'building' or 're-building' and go straight to playing decent football and challenging for the playoffs.

This is why Seattle were doing well in season 1, while Toronto is still developing its plan in season 5 (apparently)

It's "going to get" harder to make the playoffs. MLS is becoming like every other league with a few teams ahead of the pack. Because of the salary cap the biggest difference between teams in MLS is management - senior management as well as coaching. Teams like Seattle and Vancouver realized that and hired more experienced - and more - people for their front offices. Vancouver stuck with a coach they'd had for years and Seattle poached a winning MLS coach.

TFC had its chance and blew it. They went with an inexperienced FO and rotated one inexperienced coach after another. I think the team will get better but until they hire a president with a winning track record and let him run the team and answer to the baord and not some MLSE suits they won't win any MLS Cups. Mariner seems like a good guy and he has a good record of finding players in the USA but he has to deal with MLSE. I think we underestimate the keen survival instincts and political skill of those guys.

It remains to be seen if Montreal will put together the kind of FO needed to build a winning team.

FreekAce
05-04-2011, 12:50 PM
You're probably right, but it didnt help Saturday anyway.

We didnt need to go full steam, but there were times that we had real options to capitalise with practically zero danger of a counter, and yet we elected to pass it backward with no real intention of getting it forward again.

Ive seen teams do this a lot, and there is a high probability that the opposition decides they dont like what you're doing and suddenly bites your ass, making you look ridiculous.

factor in that it IS tfc and the probability lies even higher ;)
thankfully none of that happened.
as for the results on saturday, i was hoping for a better result, think we could've done so, but realisticly wasnt expecting much. and i dont mind losing, but i cant stand a team that looks like they're not giving their all. no bigger insult to the 12th. the Legion deserves better.

trane
05-04-2011, 12:53 PM
^ I almost assure you that Montreal will have a better FO from the get go, due to the fact that they have had a professional team for much longer then we did. So far every team that has had a past history of being a football club, have done better.

FreekAce
05-04-2011, 01:02 PM
I am annoyed that he can't come up with a stategy to compete with the players he has. He must have determined who can and cannot play the system he wants. If he can't trade them away then he needs to adjust his game plan to make the team more effective.

keep in mind though that for winters system, players need to be able to be flexible, (and yes our depth in this department is very poor) and the only way winter is going to figure these type of things out is trial by fire. playing a player out of position in training is not going to be enough.
winter will need to see them playing actual games. trial and error are part of a rebuild, especially with what they are trying to implement in TO.
so as frustrating as it is to constantly see line up changes, and players being put in different positions, and losing very badly as a result of this, we have to keep in mind that there are reasons for it happening. and that as a result of these things our players will A get better and more familiar, and B the people that dont cut it will most likely be shipped out first chance they have. seeing how we are limited in how many players we can move, aquire and pay, this also is something that cannot be done overnight. in the end, patience is required, and even though i know we've been beaten to death with the "its going to take time" slogan, looking at things objectively, thats exactly what it will take.

my 2 ;)

jabbronies
05-04-2011, 01:21 PM
Ya...9 games in and you are pissed that the team isn't playing the best football in North America?

I think you guys should at least give it until the summer transfer window before you start calling out the manager for being incompetent.

We all know we have holes in the team, but honestly, where do you think the competent replacements will come from?

At this point in time the only place I can see them coming from is either over-seas, which I'm sure our we already at max capacity with or The Academy - which we are seeing guys come up from.

If you guys know a secret vault that holds great players for any team to just come and take at will, please let us and the team know.

If you think there are MLS teams that are just going to hand us players for free - well good luck with that line of thinking.

As for the system - i've seen attempts at possession football, but then the team reverts to frantic booting of the ball around. That's going to happen until:
A. We get guys who can play that game or;
B. The players we have learn to play that way and in the case of an academy kid - matures into proper footballers.

mastermixer
05-04-2011, 01:52 PM
Just hypothetical... what if in three years Winter decides to jump ship. Do we maintain the Winter type culture of this team? That does limit the coaching candidates we can hire in the future significantly. Say for example a Sigi Scmidt type coach becomes available during our search, does that mean we have to ignore this because he does not fit our culture?

This is fine for the Barcelona's and Dutch teams where there are lines of coaches available and biting to take over their teams, but this could pose a problem for Toronto in the future.

ExiledRed
05-04-2011, 02:03 PM
Just hypothetical... what if in three years Winter decides to jump ship. Do we maintain the Winter type culture of this team? That does limit the coaching candidates we can hire in the future significantly. Say for example a Sigi Scmidt type coach becomes available during our search, does that mean we have to ignore this because he does not fit our culture?

This is fine for the Barcelona's and Dutch teams where there are lines of coaches available and biting to take over their teams, but this could pose a problem for Toronto in the future.

Be assured that the next coach will want to use his own 'system' and traditionally that means gutting a team and starting over.

Usually, the best way to maintain a culture is to have an excellent coach at the outset, and younger assistants who are able to take up the reigns, have intimate knowledge of the 'system' and players, and are familiar to the fans.

This worked for Shankly>Paisley>Fagan>Dalglish, which might be the only example of a club I can think of, that maintained a specific system and culture and went through four coaches that rose through the ranks, without losing its winning ways.

Souness' belief that he could do things his way, destroyed the culture and system of the club in a season.

mastermixer
05-04-2011, 02:10 PM
Be assured that the next coach will want to use his own 'system' and traditionally that means gutting a team and starting over.


Great, so much for Paul Beirnes "20 year plan" :facepalm:

Oldtimer
05-04-2011, 02:23 PM
The Ajax way is to develop coaches who all coach the same style. I'm sure the plan is to have DD or Jimmy B. coach the senior side down the stream.

spark
05-04-2011, 02:48 PM
The Ajax way is to develop coaches who all coach the same style. I'm sure the plan is to have DD or Jimmy B. coach the senior side down the stream.

Haha DD i agree but with Jimmy be I think the plan is to keep him as far away from decision making as possible.

FreekAce
05-04-2011, 03:26 PM
^could you tell us why that is oh enlightened one?

Derko
05-04-2011, 03:52 PM
^could you tell us why that is oh enlightened one?

I wonder that as well.