PG: SEATTLE 3 - TFC 0 How fun was that?

[Derko]

I never once said or implied that the first 8-9 games of this season are as good as we'll be for the next 2-3 years.

How you even came to that idea is beyond me.

Now...if, after 9 games...you (and many people that share your opinion) have lost all hope for moving in the right direction than I don't know what to tell you.

I fear though, that you'll NEVER see progress or moving in the right direction.

I say that because I think it's impossible to completely overhaul a system and squad and get results after 9 games.

You see no progress?

Fine. I see a team that, when they listen to their coach, has played a completely different style than we've ever had before. It hasn't been successful but I still see that as progress...as long as you believe that the implemented style can bring about results.

Again...I harken back to years 1, 2 and 3.

In those seasons, when it was crystal clear that we had no vision, no plan and nobody with any tactical savvy at the helm...we had a bunch of supporters with optimism.

Now, when we have all of those things and all that's left is to see whether or not the decision of hiring Mariner and Winter and Co. is the right one...some have decided that it's not..

AFTER 9 games.

Well....good for you guys who think you can predict the future.

I trust the guys at the helm because, based on what they've said and done, I think they have the right plan.

I find it strange that so many people are able to write that off after 9 games.

Very well put, TFC was just outplayed by a better team. Period, If most of the folks cannot accept that defeat and stop dwelling on the past then they are just as much to blame for failure

[Pachuco]

Sorry but only San Jose was a good performance against Columbus we were avearge and Edmonton we were actually below average and benefited from the sending off and blunders

What's alarming is that San Jose is the worst team in the MLS. When we played San Jose we were thinking of the Earthquakes from last year. Hind sight shows us we were playing a terrible team that made us look good in the second half of that game.

[Vince Whirlwind]

I think what's most worrisome is that I don't really detect any significant improvement from Game 1.

That backline last night looked like they were clueless

[menefreghista]

stop dwelling on the past then they are just as much to blame for failure

That makes no sense.

[ManUtd4ever]

I never once said or implied that the first 8-9 games of this season are as good as we'll be for the next 2-3 years.

How you even came to that idea is beyond me.

Now...if, after 9 games...you (and many people that share your opinion) have lost all hope for moving in the right direction than I don't know what to tell you.

I fear though, that you'll NEVER see progress or moving in the right direction.

I say that because I think it's impossible to completely overhaul a system and squad and get results after 9 games.

You see no progress?

Fine. I see a team that, when they listen to their coach, has played a completely different style than we've ever had before. It hasn't been successful but I still see that as progress...as long as you believe that the implemented style can bring about results.

Again...I harken back to years 1, 2 and 3.

In those seasons, when it was crystal clear that we had no vision, no plan and nobody with any tactical savvy at the helm...we had a bunch of supporters with optimism.

Now, when we have all of those things and all that's left is to see whether or not the decision of hiring Mariner and Winter and Co. is the right one...some have decided that it's not..

AFTER 9 games.

Well....good for you guys who think you can predict the future.

I trust the guys at the helm because, based on what they've said and done, I think they have the right plan.

I find it strange that so many people are able to write that off after 9 games.

Well said.

I can completely understand the skepticism regarding the prospects for immediate success.

However, after nine games in which a young team with many new players has been inconsistent, I can't understand the definitive assertion that this organization, from the new management regime down to the players, is destined for failure.

[v00d00daddy]

This is exactly what MLSE wants you to think

Look...I'm not a fan of mlse but they're the owners of this club and there's not much that's gonna change that. Especially nothing I can do about it so my choices are these:

Follow this team inspite of mlse or stop following them.

Complaining about mlse's association with tfc is pointless.

[TFCRegina]

Look...I'm not a fan of mlse but they're the owners of this club and there's not much that's gonna change that. Especially nothing I can do about it so my choices are these:

Follow this team inspite of mlse or stop following them.

Complaining about mlse's association with tfc is pointless.

Look, if this team dropped 30 games straight, 3-0 losses all of them, you'd be supporting the management and claiming that things are just on the verge of turning around because they can't get any worse.

[ManUtd4ever]

Look, if this team dropped 30 games straight, 3-0 losses all of them, you'd be supporting the management and claiming that things are just on the verge of turning around because they can't get any worse.

I'm sorry, but that is a complete load of BS. If you're ready to write off the new regime after 9 games that's your prerogative but don't start with the condascending bullshit just because others are holding out hope that the team will improve over the course of the season.

If you're so convinced that the organization is destined for failure with MLSE at the helm, why do you still support the club? Honestly?

[TFCRegina]

I'm sorry, but that is a complete load of BS. If you're ready to write off the new regime after 9 games that's your prerogative but don't start with the condascending bullshit just because others are holding out hope that the team will improve over the course of the season.

It's one thing to be hopeful and another thing to be completely blind as to what is actually on the pitch.

[menefreghista]

If you're so convinced that the organization is destined for failure with MLSE at the helm, why do you still support the club? Honestly?

Personally I'm holding out hope that the sale of Teachers share of MLSE will usher in a new management team that will mean guys like Anselmi and Beirne are turfed.

Besides, TFC is my local club, so I'm stuck following a team run by idiots.

[ManUtd4ever]

It's one thing to be hopeful and another thing to be completely blind as to what is actually on the pitch.

I don't recall anyone praising last night's performance, or the performances against Vancouver or DC.

There's a difference between blind faith and realistic expectations for a young team with several new players trying to learn a new system under a new management regime.

[v00d00daddy]

Personally I'm holding out hope that the sale of Teachers share of MLSE will usher in a new management team that will mean guys like Anselmi and Beirne are turfed.

Besides, TFC is my local club, so I'm stuck following a team run by idiots.

Agreed.

[v00d00daddy]

Look, if this team dropped 30 games straight, 3-0 losses all of them, you'd be supporting the management and claiming that things are just on the verge of turning around because they can't get any worse.

Well then you obviously have no idea how I've felt in the past.

Take a look at some threads from 2008 to see where I've stood with this club.

BTW...were you one of the many faithful in seasons 1-3 that supported the product on the field of this team?

There were many, and I was called a part time supporter for calling them out.

The tables have turned...the only difference is that I have faith in the new direction of the club and I guess you' don't.

That's fair. Only time will tell.

[69Chevy396]

This is not the EPL. Other MLS teams have demonstrated that it takes only a few seasons to build an entertaining club, one that competes. Of all the teams in the past 5 seasons only Toronto has managed to get worse each year. We have suffered through record breaking goal scoring droughts, turnstile change in mgt and roster, club dissension, diminished fan support and dull, terribly fucking dull, games at BMO. Despite all this we keep forking out the money for seasons tickets, and buying inflated watery beer. How dare anybody criticize us for being pissed off.

[v00d00daddy]

It's one thing to be hopeful and another thing to be completely blind as to what is actually on the pitch.

Agreed. Again...this is a parallel with the Leafs.

Last year they were garbage (2nd worst) but by then a plan was in place. Now we're further along in that plan (with the Leafs) and it looks better. Does it look Stanley Cup champion better? No. But is there real progress? Absolutely.

That's how I feel where TFC is right now. Except they're at the beginning.

I see the desire to bring in quality players, that have the fundamentals and more, and the dedication to developing good young players in house all as progress.

I'm not going to let 9 games at the start of it all taint my overall judgement of this team. It will be taken into consideration but there is still a lot of "wait and see" left with this team.

The guys in charge have the right mentality. It's now a question of fulfilling their vision. I'm not sure if they will but I'm not gonna write off it happening just yet.

Here's how I KNOW that Winter has higher expectations of this team and wants more from them:

He has been vocal about JDG's quality but also the fact that he's not playing up to his capablities. Yesterday, when it was obvious that JDG wasn't playing well, he subbed him.

Now this isn't significant in and of itself but add that to the fact that he continues to play and start Gargan shows that, while his vision is there, he's still stuck with a lot of garbage on the team. He can't possibly want Gargan out there but he has little choice. (although i don't know why Eckersley didn't play...has there been any explanation of that?)

Winter sees past guys like Gargan and even Peterson. He sees them as the fill in for now guys. (I think)

Kinda like the Rickard Wallin, Wayne Primeau guys.

Guys that will only be around while the development and acquiring of his kind of players is happening.

Sorry about the Leaf references. I don't usually like to compare the two sports but I can't help but see some similarities.

I think the team is in that purgatory of knowing what they want to fix things, but not being able to implement them as quick as they'd like.

or I'm just a sheep....lol

:)

[dow117]

At the point now, where I cannot see this team ever winning a game in the MLS this year. Any guarded optimism that I had was blown away by this heartless effort. Bottom line, we do not have the players to win in this league... looks like the end for many supporters now ... sick of being the laughing stock ( just check posts on other sites ). Gone from being reviled to being pitied !!!

[Heathen]

I never once said or implied that the first 8-9 games of this season are as good as we'll be for the next 2-3 years.

How you even came to that idea is beyond me.

Now...if, after 9 games...you (and many people that share your opinion) have lost all hope for moving in the right direction than I don't know what to tell you.

I fear though, that you'll NEVER see progress or moving in the right direction.

I say that because I think it's impossible to completely overhaul a system and squad and get results after 9 games.

You see no progress?

Fine. I see a team that, when they listen to their coach, has played a completely different style than we've ever had before. It hasn't been successful but I still see that as progress...as long as you believe that the implemented style can bring about results.

Again...I harken back to years 1, 2 and 3.

In those seasons, when it was crystal clear that we had no vision, no plan and nobody with any tactical savvy at the helm...we had a bunch of supporters with optimism.

Now, when we have all of those things and all that's left is to see whether or not the decision of hiring Mariner and Winter and Co. is the right one...some have decided that it's not..

AFTER 9 games.

Well....good for you guys who think you can predict the future.

I trust the guys at the helm because, based on what they've said and done, I think they have the right plan.

I find it strange that so many people are able to write that off after 9 games.

Tell me yes or no have you seen any progress on the field since the end of last season, if so tell me exactly what that is. Strictly on the field though, no new Academy, Ajax connections or talk of what they want to do.
FYI I'm not saying get rid of Winter, hell he should have at least as long as any of the other coaches have had but that doesn't mean he's immune from criticism. Frankly my biggest concern is the nagging thought that with the MLS salary rules he will never be able to find good enough players to play this possession system. Look did Seattle beat us by playing like Ajax and Barcelona? no they played in a typically MLS style, same as DC did when they tonked us.

[scut farkus]

I was at the game. It was pretty painful.
That being said, most of the Sounder fans I spoke with were exceedingly nice. Got a lot of pity high-5s and fist bumps. One thing though -- from everything I've heard about Qwest Field, I expected it to be louder and more rocking. Still a great atmosphere, just not as huge as I thought it would be.

[Roogsy]

Very well put, TFC was just outplayed by a better team. Period, If most of the folks cannot accept that defeat and stop dwelling on the past then they are just as much to blame for failure

Its discouraging that we are so accepting that other teams are "better". Its also discouraging that we accept defeat so easily against a team missing 3 forwards. I guess we will look for excuses after every loss. The very best example of accepting mediocrity. If there are games we can steal points on the road this was one of them. I guess getting ANY points on the road is a completely unreasonable expectation?

[v00d00daddy]

Tell me yes or no have you seen any progress on the field since the end of last season, if so tell me exactly what that is. Strictly on the field though, no new Academy, Ajax connections or talk of what they want to do.
FYI I'm not saying get rid of Winter, hell he should have at least as long as any of the other coaches have had but that doesn't mean he's immune from criticism. Frankly my biggest concern is the nagging thought that with the MLS salary rules he will never be able to find good enough players to play this possession system. Look did Seattle beat us by playing like Ajax and Barcelona? no they played in a typically MLS style, same as DC did when they tonked us.


Yes. I have seen progress in the on field product. Watching players play with the ball at their feet and making decisions that amount to more than a 50/50 ball is progress in my eyes. It shows a willingness to try something that should bring success.

As for the possession style system....

Nobody would ever confuse Real Salt Lake with Barcelona and they don't even play the same kind of possession style game. What they both do, however, is play with the notion that they have a better chance of success if they control the movement of the ball and the pace of the game.

That's what possession style is. There are many ways to implement it, usually dependant on your level of quality in the squad.

If you're Barcelona you try to keep the ball the entire game and play however the hell you want with it because your talent will shine through.

Conversely...if you're for example Inter (under mourinho) (which pains me to say cause I hate them..lol) you don't necessarily have to have the ball all game to be a possession style team that finds success. Now you have to cherish the time you have in possession and make the most of it.

There are many, many different ways to play a possession style game. People expecting TFC to try and play like Barcelona with the ball to satisfy their view of "possession" are totally oversimplifying it.

Haha...I guess this is rant day for me. lol

[Maltese Falcon]

Sounds like Mark Hominick (http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/fighting-stances/2011/05/01/aldohominickx-wide-community.jpg) wasn't the only ugly beating last night.
Least he didn't throw in the towel and went down swinging

[Maltese Falcon]

IMO - Seattle is one of the best attacking teams in the league. And considering we're probably the worst defensive team, the result really surprising.

Losing 3-0 to Seattle isn't the end of the world. Talking of getting rid of JDG and Winter quitting is ridiculous. Get a grip people.

Our attack simply isn't good enough right now. Martina has been disappointing since his two goal performance and I feel he should have made more of his first half chance when we were down 1-0.

I still like the style of football we're playing. We need to stregthen our attack and defence is clearly an issue (especially the marking of Gargan).

In the end, a poor result, but not unexpected. Again - I feel like people need to chill out around here. Did you think Winter would come in and we'd be unbeatable MLS champions? We need time, we need to build. Once we get a striker that can put 10-15 goals in for us this season, we'll be in much better shape.
Our attack isn't good enough???? thats absolutely unacceptable when are philosophy is an attack minded approach. Right now we have no defence and no attack...so what do we have?

[canadian_bhoy]

Our attack isn't good enough???? thats absolutely unacceptable when are philosophy is an attack minded approach. Right now we have no defence and no attack...so what do we have?

They've just picked up eckersley, which by all accounts seems to be a great signing.

I would much rather mariner build a team with quality signings. If that takes longer, then I'm fine with that. We just went through four years of knee jerk reaction signings to make us an instant winner and it was a disaster.

Now we have a system. We're slowly building the right players, and along the way there will be lumps. It sucks to have to go through this, but I'd rather have this than the revolving door mo Johnston system.

[ensco]

They've just picked up eckersley, which by all accounts seems to be a great signing.

He's a loan, not a signing.

Bringing guys in on loans is the ultimate short-term fix, the antithesis of building.

[Nicholas982]

Paulbeirne (http://twitter.com/#%21/Paulbeirne) Paul Beirne



"Seattle sounds good. We could use a roof or two."

He actually tweeted that?

They must be shitting themselves about next year's renewal rate, seeing as how things look right now. The funny thing is, we could finish last overall and I'd still consider the season a success if it moved MLSE to put a lid on BMO Field. Fill in the corners too, while you're at it. :scarf:

:picard: Season V. Sucking enough to get us a roof. Yeehaw!

[ryan]

The team is extraordinarily innovative at finding new ways to fail.

Umm, MLSE is an expert at this.


It can't get much worse than last night, so there's no where to go but up, LOL.

MLSE can always buy a bigger shovel, we've already funded it.

[Couchy81]

He's a loan, not a signing.

Bringing guys in on loans is the ultimate short-term fix, the antithesis of building.

However if you bring in a quality loan it allows the system to gain structure, and inevitably our actual signings learn to play that way, then you can replace the loans with signings who will learn the system from the regulars.

We need structure now more than ever, and if it takes 3-4 loan players to allow us to develop that structure in the short term, it will be a benefit to us in the long run.

[ensco]

However if you bring in a quality loan it allows the system to gain structure

I'm tired of all the "system" talk. Give me a break already.

Somehow Seattle gets to both put a system in..... and find players. What a concept!

Zakuani and White go down, guess what? They had a player I'd never heard of, Fernandez, ready to go. He looked pretty damn good.

How'd Fernandez look compared to say, our equivalent guy, Soolsma? How's Soolsma fitting into the "system" and "structure"?

We have got to stop talking about this, it's lame. Same with the formation talk.

We need players. That's all the problem is, or ever was.

[Oblio2]

TFC is as fucked as its ever been. NO improvement....no system. Just fucked, from bottom to top.
We look as though we are still in Mo's 5 year plan....

[ExiledRed]

I'm tired of all the "system" talk. Give me a break already.


Yep, it has to be quite fucking apparent to anybody who's watched this game for more than a year that there is in fact, no system.

Frantically passing the ball around our half before feeding it to the opposition with some boneheaded fairy-footed pass and then scrambling back to the box is not 'showing improvement' and its not 'attractive football'

Im calling bullshit on this debacle, after seven weeks of nervous apprehension.

Winter isnt qualified for this job, he shoud be learning as an assistant in MLS before being charged with the implementation of a foreign system and 'culture' and bringing us up to the same standards of quality as RSL.

[Couchy81]

I'm tired of all the "system" talk. Give me a break already.

Somehow Seattle gets to both put a system in..... and find players. What a concept!

Zakuani and White go down, guess what? They had a player I'd never heard of, Fernandez, ready to go. He looked pretty damn good.

How'd Fernandez look compared to say, our equivalent guy, Soolsma? How's Soolsma fitting into the "system" and "structure"?

We have got to stop talking about this, it's lame. Same with the formation talk.

We need players. That's all the problem is, or ever was.


I totally agree with you, it takes players that know what they're doing. I was just saying a loan isn't a bad option if he knows what he's doing. It's not like Winter is pulling a system out of his ass. It's a tried and true style of play, we just don't have enough quality. If we can get that through a loan, it's a step up from the players of the Mo era still scrambling all over themselves to get into position.

[DangerRed]

The truth of the matter is that Winter has over-rated some of the junk left behind from last year. I'm not saying he's done that willingly, but probably more likely out of necessity.

Yes, Gargan is a poor player -- but what are you going to replace him with? Especially on day 1, when you walk into the job and there's a former PR guy calling the shots player-wise and thinks that signing guys like Nate Sturgis is a good idea?

The need to sign quality and shed more garbage (or at least leave it on the bench to play against the Edmontons of the world) is the only part of the shit pie that is TFC that I'm willing to be more patient about. If the summer window comes and goes and this is still our roster, then Winter and Mariner have failed as management (unless they resign and lay the blame squarely at the feet of ownership, who may or may not be unwilling to spend money).

[Roogsy]

I don't mind the Eckesley loan but I certainly don't view it as an "answer" to our problems. I'd be more impressed with a loan of an impact player, not one that was riding the bench for his team. Hence, I cannot view it as a "great signing" and it certainly does not support the "building" concept, it's plugging a hole nothing more.

[ExiledRed]

Heres my perspective on this game.

AS always, the opposition has been instructed to go straight for the jugular and force us to concede early by pressuring us right off the mark, breaking up our predictable and poor attempt at a 'system' that practically everybody has been told all about.

so as usual we concede the first in the first ten minutes, and then suddenly strat playing better trying to level it. Up until the first half was over, we made a concerted effort to get the game back, played deeper and stronger and linked up some good chances on goal.

At half time the game could have gone either way, whatever has been written on these boards.

After half time, and again this is utterly predictable, we come out and start playing like we've never seen a ball in our life.

So what the fuck is Winter telling them at half time? Why are the opposition coming out, running circles around us while we awkwardly switch the ball around, until its taken from us, (or just given to them) when before the break were adapting and attempting to overcome?

I can only assume that whatever Winter tells them to do at half time is the wrong thing, and the utter collapse of all coordination in the second half is a testament to that. I think he's confusing them, which is why theyre all out of position and passing the ball to invisible players.

Furthermore, our team does not gel, there is no communication. When one of our players gets the ball, he is NEVER aware of the opposition player bearing down on him. They are caught napping ALL THE TIME, they have NO IDEA where the opposition is, never mind their teammates.

They are all running around blindly playing their own game and following their own system, they dont communicate and they dont know what each other are playing at, and somehow, some people on this board think its evidence that some kind of plan is coming together.

[2mil4dero+santo]

However if you bring in a quality loan it allows the system to gain structure, and inevitably our actual signings learn to play that way, then you can replace the loans with signings who will learn the system from the regulars.

We need structure now more than ever, and if it takes 3-4 loan players to allow us to develop that structure in the short term, it will be a benefit to us in the long run.

wow... I'll say it again.... "wow"... thats really all I have to say to this post.

"allows the system to gain structure". This is a football team you're talking about right?

We need a coach who doesn't have a brain fart when team selection time rolls around and knows how to motivate people, not kill any momentum we gain with negativity and poor communication. That would make the "system gain structure" better than any loan signing...

[deeznutz]

I called this shit out years ago and got flammed by every fucking person on this site and got me banned now half of the fucking posters who lit fire under my ass about it jump ship! fuckin tards!

I hope they put a lid on BMO that way we can can't up a storm and a half to let them know what we really think of this shit!

We take it in the arse each and every year with tickets and what can we say we have done during this time frame? 1 stinky trophy!

[Couchy81]

wow... I'll say it again.... "wow"... thats really all I have to say to this post.

"allows the system to gain structure". This is a football team you're talking about right?

We need a coach who doesn't have a brain fart when team selection time rolls around and knows how to motivate people, not kill any momentum we gain with negativity and poor communication. That would make the "system gain structure" better than any loan signing...

I laughed at the starting roster as well. He's been choosing the wrong players to play all season. I also despise the play of Gargan and Peterson though, their lack of vision or ability to adapt isn't Winters fault - bring in some loans to replace them short term. They wont improve.

[jloome]

Heres my perspective on this game.

AS always, the opposition has been instructed to go straight for the jugular and force us to concede early by pressuring us right off the mark, breaking up our predictable and poor attempt at a 'system' that practically everybody has been told all about.

so as usual we concede the first in the first ten minutes, and then suddenly strat playing better trying to level it. Up until the first half was over, we made a concerted effort to get the game back, played deeper and stronger and linked up some good chances on goal.

At half time the game could have gone either way, whatever has been written on these boards.

After half time, and again this is utterly predictable, we come out and start playing like we've never seen a ball in our life.

So what the fuck is Winter telling them at half time? Why are the opposition coming out, running circles around us while we awkwardly switch the ball around, until its taken from us, (or just given to them) when before the break were adapting and attempting to overcome?

I can only assume that whatever Winter tells them to do at half time is the wrong thing, and the utter collapse of all coordination in the second half is a testament to that. I think he's confusing them, which is why theyre all out of position and passing the ball to invisible players.

Furthermore, our team does not gel, there is no communication. When one of our players gets the ball, he is NEVER aware of the opposition player bearing down on him. They are caught napping ALL THE TIME, they have NO IDEA where the opposition is, never mind their teammates.

They are all running around blindly playing their own game and following their own system, they dont communicate and they dont know what each other are playing at, and somehow, some people on this board think its evidence that some kind of plan is coming together.

His accent is impenetrably thick. At some point it's honest to consider whether -- respected though he may be -- he can motivate on the fly.

[Section 117]

Personally I'm holding out hope that the sale of Teachers share of MLSE will usher in a new management team that will mean guys like Anselmi and Beirne are turfed.

Besides, TFC is my local club, so I'm stuck following a team run by idiots.

I would like to know how a different owner would actually change the results on the pitch???? 80% of this team aren't good enough to play on my men's league team. Yet it is MLSE's fault. Right that's it. Give it a fucking break already. No owner can change this shit

To Team Dero and all of his supporters Sorry to break it you but Dero wouldn't make a god dam difference to this team. So please get over it he has

[Gazza]

Is there anywhere online to get a Team DeRo t-shirt?

[ensco]

Last August at Seattle we were thoroughly outplayed, gave up 3 goals, and lost. Dero scored a very pretty goal though.

[Section 117]

Actually Roogsy why so defensive that was not a jab at you that was back on post in page 5 or something so relax. My point being is that this team is at best USL. We have never had an above average team even in 2009 they were shit. We beat a reserve squad of a USL team to win a trophy So really how much different are we than the past teams? Not much IMO.

The sad thing is the canadians, Americans, Europeans, and south Americans are all shit. The only player on this team that is above average is Frei. So my point is that 9 games into the season it is impossible to judge Winter. We need to upgrade the players on this team and there is no way that can be done in Less than a year.

If people can't stand the team or how it is playing don't tune in, don't go to the game. Unfortunately it might get worse before it gets better. But no one wants to hear that

So if I offended you I apologize. But everytime TFC loses certain people not you make comments about Dero and I just had toget that off my chest.

Pm we need to talk I have some info for you

[Section 117]

Did TFC win that game so really how different was it? Oh yeah weren't they fighting for their playoff lifes if I remeber correctly

[boban]

I would like to know how a different owner would actually change the results on the pitch???? 80% of this team aren't good enough to play on my men's league team. Yet it is MLSE's fault. Right that's it. Give it a fucking break already. No owner can change this shit

To Team Dero and all of his supporters Sorry to break it you but Dero wouldn't make a god dam difference to this team. So please get over it he has
Hmm .. yet all their sports teams suck .. and you see no connection to MLSE?
oookkkaaaaayyyyy.

[Section 117]

Hmm .. yet all their sports teams suck .. and you see no connection to MLSE?
oookkkaaaaayyyyy.

But my question is if the team is sold tomorrow are the players magically going to get better. The lack of talent on the team is the problem not the bloody owner. But the players only care if they get paid not who their owner is. So really the players should get the blame not the bloody owner.

Oh I forgot when in doubt blame MLSE not the people on the pitch. For all of the hate on MLSE they do spend money on the team

[Pachuco]

But my question is if the team is sold tomorrow are the players magically going to get better. The lack of talent on the team is the problem not the bloody owner. But the players only care if they get paid not who their owner is. So really the players should get the blame not the bloody owner.

Oh I forgot when in doubt blame MLSE not the people on the pitch. For all of the hate on MLSE they do spend money on the team

Ok, I'm just gonna state the obvious here, not sure how this one got by you. The owners sign the staff who are responsible for the players. I don't think at this point we need to prove that they did a fairly terrible job at finding qualified management and staff the first 4 years. The current staff is still up for debate although too soon to know.

But really, obviously you get that if a new owner walked in here tommorrow they do have the right to fire everyone involved with the team and start all over again right? So having said that, that's certainly one way a new owner could make a difference.

[ensco]

Heres my perspective on this game.

AS always, the opposition has been instructed to go straight for the jugular and force us to concede early by pressuring us right off the mark, breaking up our predictable and poor attempt at a 'system' that practically everybody has been told all about.

so as usual we concede the first in the first ten minutes, and then suddenly strat playing better trying to level it. Up until the first half was over, we made a concerted effort to get the game back, played deeper and stronger and linked up some good chances on goal.

At half time the game could have gone either way, whatever has been written on these boards.

After half time, and again this is utterly predictable, we come out and start playing like we've never seen a ball in our life.

So what the fuck is Winter telling them at half time? Why are the opposition coming out, running circles around us while we awkwardly switch the ball around, until its taken from us, (or just given to them) when before the break were adapting and attempting to overcome?

I can only assume that whatever Winter tells them to do at half time is the wrong thing, and the utter collapse of all coordination in the second half is a testament to that. I think he's confusing them, which is why theyre all out of position and passing the ball to invisible players.

Furthermore, our team does not gel, there is no communication. When one of our players gets the ball, he is NEVER aware of the opposition player bearing down on him. They are caught napping ALL THE TIME, they have NO IDEA where the opposition is, never mind their teammates.

They are all running around blindly playing their own game and following their own system, they dont communicate and they dont know what each other are playing at, and somehow, some people on this board think its evidence that some kind of plan is coming together.

There is a lot of truth to this. I'm not ready to declare Winter a failure yet, but I would have hoped that we would have seen better than this gong show, by now. Any thinking person has to be deeply worried.

[ryan]

But my question is if the team is sold tomorrow are the players magically going to get better. The lack of talent on the team is the problem not the bloody owner. But the players only care if they get paid not who their owner is. So really the players should get the blame not the bloody owner.

Oh I forgot when in doubt blame MLSE not the people on the pitch. For all of the hate on MLSE they do spend money on the team

Interestingly enough, the Buffalo Sabres changed ownership which then turned their season right around and almost knocked off the defending East champions in a 7 game series.

Is there any connection between bringing in an owner, lets be clear here, and owner who...

-said "The only goal of this organization is to win the Stanley Cup". Previous owner (Gosliano) only cared about money, not winning. Gee..
-attended every game. Tom Anselmi couldn't tell you what happened last Wednesday, who knows how many these guys even see.
-green lighted a trade for a high profile player (former 40 goal scorer Brad Boyes)
-immediately hired the former VP of the now dominant Pittsburgh Penguins
-spending a bit lavishly (20K on a fancy carpet for walking out, pregame shows for every game)
-made notice that they intend to go after the biggest fish in the next FA market, world class player Brad Richards

...and a massive change in the right direction?


Don't tell me the right ownership can't do a world of good for an organization. We do not have that ownership and it's clear as glass.

[tfcleeds]

Somehow Seattle gets to both put a system in..... and find players. What a concept!

Zakuani and White go down, guess what? They had a player I'd never heard of, Fernandez, ready to go. He looked pretty damn good.

How'd Fernandez look compared to say, our equivalent guy, Soolsma? How's Soolsma fitting into the "system" and "structure"?



Alvaro Fernandez is a Uruguayan international who made several appearances in the 2010 World Cup. Soolsma last year was playing for a club in the 4th tier of Dutch football. Yeah, I'd say Seattle knows how to find players.

[Section 117]

But the point is that if you change the ownership the players won't be any better better it is going to take a year of two for the new ownership hires the staff and gets better personal in place. The problem is for the first time in five years we have people in place with a plan and it is 9 games in. How can anyone judge this hiring after only 9 games???

Unfortunately, there are too many players that have contracts that can not be waived or cut due to the CBA. So it is going to take time MLSE as owners or not. Just to argue the point MLSE authorized 2 DP's last year. That is a lot more than you can say about a lot of other teams in the MLS

[boban]

For all of the hate on MLSE they do spend money on the team
Like where? At least where is the spending over and above.
We didn't get a DP until well into year 3. But teams like NY, LA, Seattle, etc. take advantage of that almost immediately. Also of note, we fuck around with $1m DP's while the other teams go after $2.5M+ and $5M DP. Thats' spending. Not the BS MLSE tries to sell.
That goes nothing for that shit hole MLSE help build by the lake.

[Section 117]

Seattle went and got a DP half way through year two. LA was grandfathered in with Landon and Adidas had a major roll in getting Becks. New York only got Henry and Marquez as a gift from Barcelona. Before that they had Claudio Renya and JPA so explain how new York and Seattle did soo much better???

[123 elite]

This is not the EPL. Other MLS teams have demonstrated that it takes only a few seasons to build an entertaining club, one that competes. Of all the teams in the past 5 seasons only Toronto has managed to get worse each year.

I dont believe this at all. I think the year we got within a bad result against NY we were ok. We were certainly better than this. We continually dump players we can build around. Occasionally we get new players we can build around and eventually dump them. Based on this i'm pretty sure we are seeing the last of Frei. He will be gone shortly.

[ryan]

"We Sounders fans haven't had to go through what they have. we have been rewarded with pretty solid play on the field, and we haven't had our season tickets double in price. I'd like to think that we'd still be packing the lower bowl after 4 losing seasons and steadily-rising prices, but I can't say I believe it. Life is tough for Toronto soccer fans right now, so give them a break."

Thanks random Seattle facebook poster.

[123 elite]

I'm tired of all the "system" talk. Give me a break already.

Somehow Seattle gets to both put a system in..... and find players. What a concept!

Zakuani and White go down, guess what? They had a player I'd never heard of, Fernandez, ready to go. He looked pretty damn good.

How'd Fernandez look compared to say, our equivalent guy, Soolsma? How's Soolsma fitting into the "system" and "structure"?

We have got to stop talking about this, it's lame. Same with the formation talk.

We need players. That's all the problem is, or ever was.

word

[boban]

Seattle went and got a DP half way through year two. LA was grandfathered in with Landon and Adidas had a major roll in getting Becks. New York only got Henry and Marquez as a gift from Barcelona. Before that they had Claudio Renya and JPA so explain how new York and Seattle did soo much better???
What revisionist bullshit are you spewing?
They signed Ljunberg before even 1 kick.
JPA was getting over $2m and was a solid performer from the get go. And its easy to dismiss Henry and Marquez as gifts when you have noting better to come up with. Don't know how its a gift when RB pay $10m a year for them.
But all these teams attacking players, not us. We sign some unknown washup Spanish 30 yr. old who can't the side of a barn.

[123 elite]

Heres my perspective on this game.

AS always, the opposition has been instructed to go straight for the jugular and force us to concede early by pressuring us right off the mark, breaking up our predictable and poor attempt at a 'system' that practically everybody has been told all about.

so as usual we concede the first in the first ten minutes, and then suddenly strat playing better trying to level it. Up until the first half was over, we made a concerted effort to get the game back, played deeper and stronger and linked up some good chances on goal.

At half time the game could have gone either way, whatever has been written on these boards.

After half time, and again this is utterly predictable, we come out and start playing like we've never seen a ball in our life.

So what the fuck is Winter telling them at half time? Why are the opposition coming out, running circles around us while we awkwardly switch the ball around, until its taken from us, (or just given to them) when before the break were adapting and attempting to overcome?

I can only assume that whatever Winter tells them to do at half time is the wrong thing, and the utter collapse of all coordination in the second half is a testament to that. I think he's confusing them, which is why theyre all out of position and passing the ball to invisible players.

Furthermore, our team does not gel, there is no communication. When one of our players gets the ball, he is NEVER aware of the opposition player bearing down on him. They are caught napping ALL THE TIME, they have NO IDEA where the opposition is, never mind their teammates.

They are all running around blindly playing their own game and following their own system, they dont communicate and they dont know what each other are playing at, and somehow, some people on this board think its evidence that some kind of plan is coming together.

well said. The fact so many buy this as a 'system' is baffling.

[Section 117]

Sorry I forgot about Ljunberg. I guess it was because he was soo good on and off the pitch. Further to my point of Marquez and Henry they were given to New York. Both players were released from their contracts to sign with New York any other team would have had to pay a transfer fee. If you don't believe it look it up or ask people who follow the league because you have no clue what you are spewing

Also Red Bull vs MLSE is not a real fair comparison as they use the team as a marketing tool for their product so it is almost considered a marketing expense their revenues vastly exceed that of any of ther owners in the MLS.

Never in my post did I say TFC spent the money correctly, my point is they did. So my question to you I'd outside of the marquee cities you mentioned and by the way you forgot Chicago how many teams spent the money???

[boban]

Sorry I forgot about Ljunberg. I guess it was because he was soo good on and off the pitch. Further to my point of Marquez and Henry they were given to New York. Both players were released from their contracts to sign with New York any other team would have had to pay a transfer fee. If you don't believe it look it up or ask people who follow the league because you have no clue what you are spewing
Actually Ljunberg was good the 1st year. Second year the relationship soured and they shipped him out, but players matured in the league around him and they had talent to move forward. We don't at any level.
I know Henry was released. But he was fading in Barca so they saw no value in it. A Euro team would have paid a fee, not another MLS team.
Point is TFC never inquired, nor do you ever hear their name in any discussions of major world players. That's fine if a player doesn't want to be hear for whatever reason, but be in the mix, inquire and make an offer. They don't.


Never in my post did I say TFC spent the money correctly, my point is they did. So my question to you I'd outside of the marquee cities you mentioned and by the way you forgot Chicago how many teams spent the money???
My point is they don't spend enough of it.

[Section 117]

What ever if you believe any other team in the MLS had a realistic chance of signing outside of LA or New York then good for you cause there was no chance of either signing anywhere else. Henry stated many times one of the reasons he wanted to play in New York is cause no one really knows who he is.

Also, TFC has had the opportunity to sign several DPs but the problem was unfortunately the drunk Scot did think a. We needed it or b. He was not getting a kick back. So I believe when we sign our next dp he will be the right player not just someone who played in Europe and was good 5 years ago. They are authorized to spend the money the problem is it has to be the right player

[Maltese Falcon]

They've just picked up eckersley, which by all accounts seems to be a great signing.

I would much rather mariner build a team with quality signings. If that takes longer, then I'm fine with that. We just went through four years of knee jerk reaction signings to make us an instant winner and it was a disaster.

Now we have a system. We're slowly building the right players, and along the way there will be lumps. It sucks to have to go through this, but I'd rather have this than the revolving door mo Johnston system.
Yeah but Eck is on loan...as is Stevanovic so you can't exactly expect them to be part of long term plans

[Darlofletch]

Alvaro Fernandez is a Uruguayan international who made several appearances in the 2010 World Cup. Soolsma last year was playing for a club in the 4th tier of Dutch football. Yeah, I'd say Seattle knows how to find players.

yeah, fernandez wasn't the best example, it's ridiculous that he's generally been on the bench for them. probably the best comparison to soolsma, a minor player from abroad unknown to most, would be eric friberg. He's certainly looking decent, a lot more productive than soolsma.

as for how we always look rough to start each half, I think it could well be that winter's confusing them. eventuallly, say about 20 minutes in they revert back to what they're comfortable with and look a bit better. then they go in at half time and get the confusing instructions again, and look all messed up.

Look at tchani, first couple of games, he looked really good, presumably because he's playing his natural game and hasn't had too much of the coaches try and change him. last few games he's looked a lot less comfortable and confident out there, and less effective as a result.

Hopefully once they get used to it, they'll improve to their point where they're comfortable and can play ok, and they'll actually be better than before. like remodelling a golf swing, at first it fucks you up, but hopefully you end up better.

[Darlofletch]

Sorry I forgot about Ljunberg. I guess it was because he was soo good on and off the pitch. Further to my point of Marquez and Henry they were given to New York. Both players were released from their contracts to sign with New York any other team would have had to pay a transfer fee. If you don't believe it look it up or ask people who follow the league because you have no clue what you are spewing

Also Red Bull vs MLSE is not a real fair comparison as they use the team as a marketing tool for their product so it is almost considered a marketing expense their revenues vastly exceed that of any of ther owners in the MLS.

Never in my post did I say TFC spent the money correctly, my point is they did. So my question to you I'd outside of the marquee cities you mentioned and by the way you forgot Chicago how many teams spent the money???

yeah, but bmo uses tfc as a marketing tool, what are they paying $4m a year? let's not pretend mlse doesn't have a shitload of money to spend just for the sake of marketing.

[Roogsy]

^ This leads me to the question that has been lying below the surface for all of us for some time. Can adult players already well into their careers adjust to this new system that they were not trained into as youth? I think its asking too much. You cant teach an old dog new tricks so unless the players are already familiar with elements of the system somehow, they're bound to struggle with it all year long.

[Maltese Falcon]

^ This leads me to the question that has been lying below the surface for all of us for some time. Can adult players already well into their careers adjust to this new system that they were not trained into as youth? I think its asking too much. You can teach an old dog new tricks so unless the players are already familiar with elements of the system somehow, they're bound to struggle with it all year long.
I think a true professional should be able to change his style yes...unfortunately they don't have all the pieces yet and a good handful of the starters shouldn't be professionals getting paid to play soccer in this league

[Maltese Falcon]

A system is just a mentality and approach, its still all the basic fundamentals of soccer that they seem to be missing out on....basic defending, tackling, scoring, passing. As I've heard a few people say on here I agree, ultimately we lack the skill on the team regardless of any system.

[sashavukelich]

"We Sounders fans haven't had to go through what they have. we have been rewarded with pretty solid play on the field, and we haven't had our season tickets double in price. I'd like to think that we'd still be packing the lower bowl after 4 losing seasons and steadily-rising prices, but I can't say I believe it. Life is tough for Toronto soccer fans right now, so give them a break."

Thanks random Seattle facebook poster.

amen.

[Roogsy]

I think a true professional should be able to change his style yes...unfortunately they don't have all the pieces yet and a good handful of the starters shouldn't be professionals getting paid to play soccer in this league

I profoundly disagree. That is exactly the difference between successful teams and teams that struggle. They all contract professional players but only those teams that identify and sign players that are the right fit go on to succeed. You can't convince me that Peter Crouch would do well in Barcelona or Messi in Chelsea and these are very professional players. I firmly believe that one of the nuances players bring is their style preference and how they fit and good management makes sure to acknowledge that and account for it.

[QSIM]

Fuck, I knew I shouldve missed this one for Avicii.

[bgnewf]

Video Blog - TFC Loses to Seattle 3-0

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/05/seattle-blowout/

In my customary video blog, this time post game after Toronto FC's appallingly bad result in Seattle, which saw the Reds soundly defeated 3-0, I search in vain for something positive to build upon. Unfortunately only Stefan Frei was even remotely positive.

[TFCRegina]

I profoundly disagree. That is exactly the difference between successful teams and teams that struggle. They all contract professional players but only those teams that identify and sign players that are the right fit go on to succeed. You can't convince me that Peter Crouch would do well in Barcelona or Messi in Chelsea and these are very professional players. I firmly believe that one of the nuances players bring is their style preference and how they fit and good management makes sure to acknowledge that and account for it.

Peter Crouch shouldn't play any league higher than Championship to be honest.

I'm completely flabbergasted as to how he continues to score goals (and they usually come in key moments) for Tottenham. I'd call him a talentless hack but he somehow seems to defy that statistically.

[Roogsy]

Hmmm...taking a look at the standings and then looking at our upcoming games does not give me a good feeling. I may need to concentrate solely on Champions League and my new baby boy to avoid the debacle about to befall us.

We are currently 14th with 7 points. But only Vancouver below us has played 8 games like we have, everyone else has 1 and even 2 games in hand.

In the month of May, in addition to the Edmonton NCC game we have:

Houston
@ Dallas
Chicago
@ Colorado
Philadelphia

Of those games, only Chicago looks winnable to me. Our two away games are against both the MLS Cup finalists and our home games (other than Chicago) are against teams that are sitting 2 and 3 in the Eastern conference.

I don't know what to say about May's schedule other than I am scared. It is within the realm of possibility that we may be reasonably out of a playoff spot by June. That would be a remarkable achievement even for TFC. At that point, there wouldn't even be a reason to bring in a DP anymore.

[jloome]

Peter Crouch shouldn't play any league higher than Championship to be honest.

I'm completely flabbergasted as to how he continues to score goals (and they usually come in key moments) for Tottenham. I'd call him a talentless hack but he somehow seems to defy that statistically.

You're nuts man, Crouch is a fine striker. Good with both feet, great in the air. He's always been a clutch goalscorer.

Can you imagine how many that guy would score in MLS. Whew.

[Brooker]

hah we are so bad it's getting comical. Obviously this season more than any other is really gonna separate the men from the boys and I think there will be a decent number of ppl who don't make it to October and simply wash their hands of this mess. Conference football is easier on the eyes. :lol:


Peter Crouch shouldn't play any league higher than Championship to be honest.

I'm completely flabbergasted as to how he continues to score goals (and they usually come in key moments) for Tottenham. I'd call him a talentless hack but he somehow seems to defy that statistically.

you'd go that far? that's way too harsh.

[maninb]

Looking at the HYSTERICAL OVER-REACTIONS around here I would expect if Frei has a bad game they'll be DEMANDING he get cut immediately...Winter and mgmt said this is a re-building year and points will probably be hard to come by...now this is happening and almost everyone here is FREAKING OUT....take a pill for feck sake! sheeesh...PS....Gargan sucks...

[Oblio2]

Peter Crouch shouldn't play any league higher than Championship to be honest.

I'm completely flabbergasted as to how he continues to score goals (and they usually come in key moments) for Tottenham. I'd call him a talentless hack but he somehow seems to defy that statistically.

Peter Crouch has a great touch and is a good player

[Darlofletch]

Looking at the HYSTERICAL OVER-REACTIONS around here I would expect if Frei has a bad game they'll be DEMANDING he get cut immediately...Winter and mgmt said this is a re-building year and points will probably be hard to come by...now this is happening and almost everyone here is FREAKING OUT....take a pill for feck sake! sheeesh...PS....Gargan sucks...

I seem to remember winter talking very bullishly about competing this year as well as rebuilding for the future.

[Fort York Redcoat]

...now this is happening

Future sig.


It's my version of Keep Calm and Carry On. Love it.

[TFCRegina]

You're nuts man, Crouch is a fine striker. Good with both feet, great in the air. He's always been a clutch goalscorer.

Can you imagine how many that guy would score in MLS. Whew.

Thierry Henry, can you imagine how many that guy would score in MLS?

Mista, can you imagine how many that guy would score in MLS?

Success abroad doesn't mean success here.

[Section 117]

Would you like to know why they can't score as easily as they scored in other leagues.

It's called service and in this league the players you surround a DP with will ultimately determine how many goals they will score. Unless you hog the ball, but what makes these players great is they are use to playing a team game not be individualistic unless they circumstances dictate them to be

[Yohan]

Would you like to know why they can't score as easily as they scored in other leagues.

It's called service and in this league the players you surround a DP with will ultimately determine how many goals they will score. Unless you hog the ball, but what makes these players great is they are use to playing a team game not be individualistic unless they circumstances dictate them to be
Henry really had no excuses why he sucked for a long time in NY. He got service. He fluffed a lot of them

[ryan]

Hmmm...taking a look at the standings and then looking at our upcoming games does not give me a good feeling. I may need to concentrate solely on Champions League and my new baby boy to avoid the debacle about to befall us.

We are currently 14th with 7 points. But only Vancouver below us has played 8 games like we have, everyone else has 1 and even 2 games in hand.

In the month of May, in addition to the Edmonton NCC game we have:

Houston
@ Dallas
Chicago
@ Colorado
Philadelphia

Of those games, only Chicago looks winnable to me. Our two away games are against both the MLS Cup finalists and our home games (other than Chicago) are against teams that are sitting 2 and 3 in the Eastern conference.

I don't know what to say about May's schedule other than I am scared. It is within the realm of possibility that we may be reasonably out of a playoff spot by June. That would be a remarkable achievement even for TFC. At that point, there wouldn't even be a reason to bring in a DP anymore.

Fuck the MLS season, just knock of the Shitecaps and take a run at CCL.

Just give me something to hold on to so I'm not counting down the days to the start of next season...in May of this year.

[TFCRegina]

Would you like to know why they can't score as easily as they scored in other leagues.

It's called service and in this league the players you surround a DP with will ultimately determine how many goals they will score. Unless you hog the ball, but what makes these players great is they are use to playing a team game not be individualistic unless they circumstances dictate them to be

Then I guess the bold statement of: Can you imagine how many they'd score in this league? is quite misguided, time and time again.

[DangerRed]

We are currently 14th with 7 points. But only Vancouver below us has played 8 games like we have, everyone else has 1 and even 2 games in hand.

In the month of May, in addition to the Edmonton NCC game we have:

Houston
@ Dallas
Chicago
@ Colorado
Philadelphia

Of those games, only Chicago looks winnable to me. Our two away games are against both the MLS Cup finalists and our home games (other than Chicago) are against teams that are sitting 2 and 3 in the Eastern conference.


I think we have a reasonable chance of pulling out a total of 3-5 points from these games.

That's May.

Now take a look at June:

Sporting KC (winnable, unless KC acquires road form)
@Galaxy (almost certain loss)
@Revolution (maybe a road tie, given they're almost as shitty as we are)
Sounders (you watched on Saturday, right? :D)
@RSL (almost certain loss)
Whitecaps (you watched the season opener, right? :D)

Now, say we get 5 points out of the May games, and say you get a pretty unusually positive outcome from June (Sporting win, Revs win rather than tie, and Whitecaps win rather than loss) that gets you to July 1 with 21 points with half the season gone.

And this assumes TFC wins half its games in the month of June, which like I said, would be a highly positive outcome not rooted in our performance to date this season.

Guess the question then becomes whether 42 pts get you into the playoffs....:picard: