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View Full Version : 7 points from the first 7 games => This is what you expected?



LesH
04-23-2011, 06:28 PM
The first 7 games of the 2011 season are behind our back.

We had 7 games, from which 5 at home, and we have right now 7 points from the 21 possible ( 1 Win / 4 Draws / 2 Losses).

Taking in consideration all the aspects related to these 7 games (including the quality of the opponents) where TFC stands now compared with what were your expectations before the start of the season?

Discuss...

:scarf: :hump:

QSIM
04-23-2011, 06:33 PM
Just what I expected. But I expect us to get better, a lot better.

69Chevy396
04-23-2011, 06:41 PM
Compared with the top clubs in the league, Toronto is a joke. The 7 points is what they deserve.

phonzo
04-23-2011, 06:49 PM
I expected less tone honest. This year has been a write off since day one for me bur there are glimmers of hope on the pitch that didn't exist before

Whoop
04-23-2011, 07:52 PM
I didn't expect much this season, but this is worse than I expected. I expected at least 2-3 wins at home so far.

Brooker
04-23-2011, 07:55 PM
I expected your name to have a few more letters buddy.

ryan
04-23-2011, 08:51 PM
More points than Vancouver. /shrug

jloome
04-23-2011, 08:58 PM
We've had two shit games, four mediocre games and one good game. I'd say our record is very MLS-like.

As a team, we're well ahead of where I expected us to be at this stage. We're a couple of acquisitions away from being a seriously tough team to beat. Eckersley was important, and we could use a playmaker, as Maicon's a better striker than attacker.

ACSertL
04-23-2011, 09:05 PM
Not sure I expected 3 red cards in 7 matches...

My expectations were set really low for this season. I must say I was pleasantly surprised at the way the team played today, but they really need to start directing more shots at goal. It seems they are always looking to pass when a look to goal might be a better option.

Pachuco
04-23-2011, 09:07 PM
We've had two shit games, four mediocre games and one good game. I'd say our record is very MLS-like.

As a team, we're well ahead of where I expected us to be at this stage. We're a couple of acquisitions away from being a seriously tough team to beat. Eckersley was important, and we could use a playmaker, as Maicon's a better striker than attacker.

Every team that isn't playing well is a couple of acquisitions away from being a serioustly tought team to beat. This is the MLS we are talking about.

Anyways, 7 points is worst then I expected considering how many shit teams we've played and how many games we've played at home. It's starting to look like we'll have a hard time staying away from the bottom this year.

torontocelt
04-23-2011, 10:11 PM
7 from 21 is extremely poor, worst still when only 2 of those games have been away games.

billyfly
04-23-2011, 10:26 PM
I expected your name to have a few more letters buddy.

WHat the hell?

TFCRegina
04-23-2011, 10:27 PM
WHat the hell?

Whoopie = Whoop, note the missing two letters.

billyfly
04-23-2011, 10:28 PM
^I know. I mean why did Vic do that?

And it was Whoopee, not Whoopie.

shaggingscot
04-23-2011, 10:50 PM
I had absolutely fuck all as far as expectations went so I suppose it's par for the course as far as I'm concerned. If we don't sign a poacher in July I'll be some annoyed!

Raging Reggie
04-23-2011, 10:52 PM
I expected my schlong to explode like a flair at some of the girls ass in jeans today. Im more in shock over that than the 7 points out of 7 games.

shaggingscot
04-23-2011, 10:53 PM
I expected my schlong to explode like a flair at some of the girls ass in jeans today. Im more in shock over that than the 7 points out of 7 games.

I did see you tugging on it trying to get it lit....

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
04-23-2011, 10:56 PM
7 games in 7 pts...... 1 pt out of a playoff spot...Welcome to MLS!

Bars92
04-23-2011, 11:08 PM
Compared with the top clubs in the league, Toronto is a joke. The 7 points is what they deserve.

These great 'American' clubs. Fuck them! Toronto till i die

AmherstNY_TFC
04-23-2011, 11:15 PM
When I bought my season tickets this year, I also bought a box of straws knowing I'd have to suck it up for another year.

Cashcleaner
04-24-2011, 12:48 AM
In all honesty, I really feel that we should be doing better than we currently are.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rebuilding and all that. Gotta expect to lose a few. Whatever.

This is MLS. I don't know if people have been paying attention, but given the nature of competition in this league, "rebuilding" means fairly little here. There are a multitude of clubs that have made the playoffs in their rebuilding year. Consider New York who ended their 2009 season dead-last and placed third overall in 2010, or LA before them who shat the bed in '08 and went to the MLS Cup Final in 2009.

So yeah, I know that Winter needs time to put together a good working roster and we can't expect to become world-beaters overnight, but let's not put too much stock into the term "rebuilding" as a quick excuse when we play bad games.

Today very well could have been a win. Maybe it should have been a win. I have a lot of hope for this club in the future, but for the meantime I'll readily admit it's been very frustrating to follow.

Red Rat
04-24-2011, 02:07 AM
The first 7 games of the 2011 season are behind our back.

We had 7 games, from which 5 at home, and we have right now 7 points from the 21 possible ( 1 Win / 4 Draws / 2 Losses).

Taking in consideration all the aspects related to these 7 games (including the quality of the opponents) where TFC stands now compared with what were your expectations before the start of the season?

Discuss...

:scarf: :hump:

If you start something back it up!!!
don't just post and hide

Brooker
04-24-2011, 05:01 AM
^I know. I mean why did Vic do that?

rofl he's trying to shake us. time to take things up a notch.

TorCanSoc
04-24-2011, 07:51 AM
Points wise I'm not too worried about.

Early season we're always going to be one win away from being near the top of the table... but so is everyone else.

I feel snow job'd by the FO on how bad we are, and be patient. Those super high quality marketing promos now make me mad. Paul Bierne, CV1, slo-mo of winter et al walking into a board room. They called it "The New Beginning: Part 1-4". At first I thought wow, nice quality video. Got me all riled up ready, and kinda squishy for this team. Looking at them now... its just a new'ish government blaming the one before it for the mess they inherited and beg for understanding.

Believe it or not, I'm losing faith in "Total Football". Have I seen enough to make that assessment? In my eyes... yes. How many games have we seen with this "system"? Pre-season games, pre-season tournaments, and 7 games.

The post game excuses are the same.. once bounce away from a win. one defensive lapse away from taking full points. Watch a game at the highest level, there are defensive lapses there too. The other bloody team is putting their strategies in to force us to have "defensive lapses". Does total football mean, you will win if you never make a mistake, and do everything 100%? What is RSL's system?

I'm starting to believe the poster that the Ajax system builds youths, then sells them. Is that the real system? Not sure, I'm just post game ranting. </rant>

Pookie
04-24-2011, 07:56 AM
I'm not sure how anyone had "expectations" considering our roster wasn't set to start the season and we made some major moves right up until the close of the transfer window.

Further, we adopted a new system and had no clue how players would adapt.

I can see how fans had "hope" but there is no way that "hope" could be equated with fact based expectations considering all the unknowns to start the season.

As for the record, considering 3 Red cards in 7 games, I'd say losing only 2 of those 7 is a surprising and positive record.

torontocelt
04-24-2011, 08:44 AM
I think the mentality of not expecting anything from a team is a dangerous allowance to give them, I cannot think of any mildly successful team that would be given that allowance. Before the start of the season I would have hoped for more than 7 points from a possible 21, in fact I would have expected more than 7 points from 21. The fact that we have only managed to average a point a game when we have had 5 home games from 7 is not good enough. If people think that 7 from 21 on a front loaded calendar is a good return then I am glad they are not managing the team because to be frank, if you do not set standards then you are going to be f#cked at some point. In clubs throughout the world on a yearly basis new managers are brought in, new players arrive and systems are changed. What this does not mean though is that expectations for a club should be reduced to no expectations and rather hope.

Pookie
04-24-2011, 09:00 AM
^ Are your expectations simply wins and losses?

For me, expectations are a function of looking at the complete picture. I can hope and even demand a winning season but in looking at an incomplete roster to start the season, I can't really expect them to win right away. There is nothing to base that expectation on.

I can however have expectations that we need to develop a deeper pool of talent. In the past, our line on players was limited to First Wave and a few other sources. Clearly, I can expect this to improve.

Now, we have an Academy system that has received a significant investment. We have connections that Winter and Mariner have been able to leverage to attract players like Eckersley, Martina and Stevanovich and our depth in terms of players available to us has improved.

In this regard, Winter/Mariner have exceeded my expectations.

You can set standards for wins/losses but they have to be attainable given the facts of the situation or else they are meaningless.

ManUtd4ever
04-24-2011, 09:09 AM
I would agree that losing only 2 of the first 7 matches is somewhat of a positive given the extensive changes that have taken place within the organization on and off the pitch.

I am also disappointed with the lone victory considering the favorable unbalanced schedule on home soil early in the schedule.

I thought TFC deserved a victory against Chivas when Santos' goal was disallowed on an erroneous offside call. TFC definitely played well enough to win in San Jose. I also thought TFC were robbed of a chance to earn the victory yesterday due to two highly questionable yellow cards issued to Tchani.

So, with competent officiating, perhaps TFC already has a few victories, and their record would be much more inspiring. It's not always about the results when measuring the progress of a club that is rebuilding.

In any case, if TFC consistently plays with the type of effort they displayed yesterday, our record should take care itself over the course of the season.

Oldtimer
04-24-2011, 09:12 AM
Better than I expected from when I saw them in Charleston.

Parkdale
04-24-2011, 09:23 AM
Better than I expected from when I saw them in Charleston.

yep. I remember a Charleston tourney without a single goal for us.

I didn't expect to hear such good news about the academy system - specifically the facility at downsview. Very stoked about that.

I expected our team would be off to a rough start.... but then again..... I expected DeRo would be getting us some goals.

torontocelt
04-24-2011, 09:27 AM
^ Are your expectations simply wins and losses?

For me, expectations are a function of looking at the complete picture. I can hope and even demand a winning season but in looking at an incomplete roster to start the season, I can't really expect them to win right away. There is nothing to base that expectation on.

I can however have expectations that we need to develop a deeper pool of talent. In the past, our line on players was limited to First Wave and a few other sources. Clearly, I can expect this to improve.

Now, we have an Academy system that has received a significant investment. We have connections that Winter and Mariner have been able to leverage to attract players like Eckersley, Martina and Stevanovich and our depth in terms of players available to us has improved.

In this regard, Winter/Mariner have exceeded my expectations.

You can set standards for wins/losses but they have to be attainable given the facts of the situation or else they are meaningless.

No not just wins and losses, I am looking at the complete picture. Football is a points based game though and we have not managed to return enough points in the amount of games we have played. Like i said 7 from 21 regardless of the situation is not good enough. The picture has been painted that TFC were in a helpless situation and the reality is we were not. That is why I dont buy the 'no expectation' theory, this is the MLS not the premiership where some clubs are massively out spent and can genuinely start off at a very un level playing field. TFC still had a core of players, its not like we were up sh!t creak without a paddle. At what point in the season are fans supposed to have win / loss expectations if not now?

Pookie
04-24-2011, 09:41 AM
^ I think knowing the roster now and the fact that the players can actually train with each other we can expect that the next 7 will have a slightly better record than the first.

torontocelt
04-24-2011, 09:48 AM
Agreed with you there Pookie, the next 7 games will definitely provide a great insight into the team, more so than the first 7. It is going to be interesting and the one good thing about the team so far is I cannot wait until the next game to see what is going to happen, that can only be a good thing.

DangerRed
04-24-2011, 10:03 AM
^ I think knowing the roster now and the fact that the players can actually train with each other we can expect that the next 7 will have a slightly better record than the first.

Three of the next seven league games are away. I think you're going to see a worse record, with fewer ties and more losses, for the next leg of the year. I agree that they can start gelling now, but it's going to be against a very confidence-testing backdrop, schedule-wise.

levyashin
04-24-2011, 10:45 AM
in M.L.S. home is where the points are.the first 7 are gone never to be seen again.4 out of 7 at home next=12pts;3 away games=3pts--total=15pts to aim at .if this team can get to this level we are moving forward.

rocker
04-24-2011, 11:00 AM
the home points lost is troubling.

the only way those lost points at home don't matter is if

1) TFC goes on a home run with lots of wins
2) does better on the road than they've done in the past.

So the home ties so far in the early season are not crippling in the long run, but they cannot be the norm. FC Dallas had 6 home ties last year. Colorado had 5. But those teams won at least 8 home games and had average away records. Typically for TFC the road has been absolutely barren. Can Winter get more from the road than Mojo, Carver, Cummins, Preki and Dasovic did? We shall see.

Whoop
04-24-2011, 11:15 AM
TFC has to do better on the road than they have in the past.

TFC's road record over the last four years has been beyond abysmal.

2mil4dero+santo
04-24-2011, 11:24 AM
i expected gargan wouldn't be playing this season and he is so i put "worst [sic] than I expected".

2mil4dero+santo
04-24-2011, 11:25 AM
TFC has to do better on the road than they have in the past.

TFC's road record over the last four years has been beyond abysmal.

hate to break it to u m8 but its not just our road record lol...

LesH
04-24-2011, 12:12 PM
If you start something back it up!!!
don't just post and hide

Rofl, I didn't post a conclusion about something, so it's not something which needs to be backed up. :rolleyes:

But anyways, I voted in the "worst than I expected" category. This would be valid both points-wise (I expected about 11-12 points by now) and also for the quality of the product on the field.

I'm between those guys who don't really bought the "we are rebuilding, so we should write off this season from the start" slogan, for those reasons which were exposed already many many times.
In a nutshell: This is the MLS, and we've seen plenty of examples of teams going from crap in a season to solid playoff-spot teams in the next season.

OurGame
04-24-2011, 12:17 PM
The Team completely sucks

algieb
04-24-2011, 12:41 PM
tfc hardly had shots on target yesterday,pretty passing at the back and midfield are not going to scare any teams, 7 points from 21 is not great by any stretch,we cannot play a passing game with defenders who are not comfortable on the ball i e passing running into spaces to give or collect passes, imo we do not have an attacking midfield,santos is not a out and out goalscorer up front,he cant hold the ball up to let mids get forward,thats why i found yesterday strange, we should have kept gordon on to do this, thats my rant abt tfc a bit like season one

CoachGT
04-24-2011, 02:03 PM
^ Are your expectations simply wins and losses?

For me, expectations are a function of looking at the complete picture. I can hope and even demand a winning season but in looking at an incomplete roster to start the season, I can't really expect them to win right away. There is nothing to base that expectation on.

I can however have expectations that we need to develop a deeper pool of talent. In the past, our line on players was limited to First Wave and a few other sources. Clearly, I can expect this to improve.

Now, we have an Academy system that has received a significant investment. We have connections that Winter and Mariner have been able to leverage to attract players like Eckersley, Martina and Stevanovich and our depth in terms of players available to us has improved.

In this regard, Winter/Mariner have exceeded my expectations.

You can set standards for wins/losses but they have to be attainable given the facts of the situation or else they are meaningless.

Truth here. Playing a real system, not just route one. Showing signs of life, and even in the losses (other than DC) the games have been entertaining, more than the defensive trap sh*t played last year.

Ultra & Proud
04-24-2011, 03:35 PM
For me I'd say the results are right about where I expected but how the games have gone down are not what I expected. I expected lots of 5-3, 4-2 matches but we've been a bit tighter than I thought. Saw some good football and some ugly defense through these matches. Hopefully this season the second half shows improvement for a change as we usually start strong and then sputter out. Should make for an interested rest of the season.

Detroit_TFC
04-24-2011, 04:08 PM
My expectation was that we would lose most if not all our first games BUT that we would show steady improvement and end strong (for example I fully expect to beat the yellow team in September). It's tough to not get these home points but it's likely if these were mostly away games, we would have lost those games and that would have been deadly for team morale.

DichioTFC
04-24-2011, 04:16 PM
I am a bit disappointed, but I can't say I expected much otherwise. The DC result specifically was disappointing, and drawing Columbus was more of the same. But it seems as though we're only a sequence or two away from getting a goal / stopping a play. Also hoping to see everyone's concentration improve, whether we're up two goals or down two goals.

Brooker
04-24-2011, 05:06 PM
TFC has to do better on the road than they have in the past.

TFC's road record over the last four years has been beyond abysmal.

in MLS how many teams road records aren't abysmal?

rocker
04-24-2011, 07:32 PM
in MLS how many teams road records aren't abysmal?

That's a good question... yes, most teams are bad on the road.

I just ran some stats to see how TFC performed compared to the league over 4 seasons, 2007-2010 (only the 13 teams that existed in 2007, not the expansion teams that came in since, to keep things equal).

1) The worst road team, TFC, earned 39 road points (9.75 pts per season).
2) The average road team earned 61 road points (15.24 pts per season).
3) The best road team, Chicago, earned 79 road points (19.75 pts per season).

So on average on the road, Chicago got 3 wins and a tie more per season than TFC did.

Other notable teams were LAG (76 pts), Columbus (75pts), Houston (71 pts).

So yes, MLS teams do badly on the road. No team in 4 years had more wins than losses on the road. About 25% of teams on the road win, about 27% draw. So conversely, home teams won 48% of games or at least gained points 75% of the time. To get zero points when playing at home is clearly a major failure.

But TFC was far and away the worst team on the road in those four years. The next worst was NYRB at 43pts and then RSL at 48 pts.

Definitely "abysmal". Hopefully Winter can finally get this team to the average and get some of those lost points.

Shakes McQueen
04-24-2011, 09:17 PM
We've had two shit games, four mediocre games and one good game. I'd say our record is very MLS-like.

As a team, we're well ahead of where I expected us to be at this stage. We're a couple of acquisitions away from being a seriously tough team to beat. Eckersley was important, and we could use a playmaker, as Maicon's a better striker than attacker.

This season was always, for me, going to be about watching how the team develops over the course of the whole season. With that in mind, I agree that we are ahead of where I expected us to be right now. The new acquisitions Winter has made, are fitting in nicely so far.

We still have major holes that need to be filled - particularly up front - but I've been satisfied with the team's development so far, and think we will be competitive soon, as well as better off for going through this process.

- Scott

ExiledRed
04-24-2011, 09:43 PM
I think Winter's set the bar extremely low, and anything above a piss poor performance like we displayed against DC is going to be called an 'improvement' and pointed to as evidence that the new system is working.

Its true we played much better on Saturday than we did on the previous one, but we had a week to prepare, played at home and still only got a point. The referee nobbled the game too (I am not just referring to Tchani's dismissal) so its hard to judge how well we might have done, but I dont think we performed any better than we did against LA, Chivas or the Timbers.

The DC game showed us what we look like on a second game in four days, and its not pretty, I hope we have the stamina and fatigue issue being addressed because we cant blame the turf anymore.

DOMIN8R
04-25-2011, 06:29 AM
After the weekend, playoff odds down 2.3 to 24.6% Toronto FC Playoff Chances (http://www.sportsclubstats.com/USA/TorontoFC.html)

I like what Winter is doing overall. He has my confidence. I can be patient, when I see progress.

Carts
04-25-2011, 10:11 AM
At the start of the season, after 7-games I was praying for 11pts - but realistically hoping for 9pts...

So at 7pts - we're very close to where my realistic expectations were point wise...

For 11 pts I was thinking win vs Van, Por, Chv (2 expansion clubs & another home win), losses to San Jose and LA (road game & a top LA team at home), and then scrubbing out draws to DC and Columbus...

My biggest dissapointment was Vancouver - even though its there first game, the hoopla etc I thought as a club w/a good system we should have scrubbed out a draw, instead we got pumped...

LA was a positive - so was San Jose...

Based on what I realistically thought would happen - its a good thing I don't bet on the games as I would be 3-for-7... LOL :)

Carts...

Fort York Redcoat
04-25-2011, 10:36 AM
Just looking at points I'm fine but only if I could see where we are going to progress later. I'm still hopeful we'll improve but I continue to go into games matchingup competition and seeing a draw realistically. Did I want more? Yes. Expect more? No.

rocker
04-25-2011, 11:23 AM
it meets my expectations so far, but yes, it has to improve to make me happy by November.

if this rate continues, TFC would have just 34 points at the end of the season.. which is worse than 3 of our 4 seasons.

Maltese Falcon
04-25-2011, 04:08 PM
I think that the first half of Saturdays game was possibly one of our best this season, we did well playing a man down for the full second half. I like the style that we are trying to play, and I feel like we probably have the deepest team we have ever. That being said, I would like Gargan to be a sub at most, let Eck start at RB, enough of Harden as a starting CB.

Considering the amount of home games we have played my expectations have certainly not been met, but I do feel confident that if we can put together a complete 90 of our best soccer we have a team that can score defend and win.

Heathen
04-25-2011, 06:51 PM
It's worse than I expected, there have been pluses but I just don't see the widespread optimism that seems to abound. What disturbs me most is that we look a lot more dangerous when we abandon the patient (or should I say ponderous) buildup and play in a more direct (not necessarily long ball) style.
I think there's a lot of rose tinted glasses around because 6 points from home games and 1 point from 2 away games over the season would have us second from bottom at the end based on previous years. Yes I know its a big leap based on so few games.

Roogsy
04-26-2011, 09:41 AM
It's worse than I expected, there have been pluses but I just don't see the widespread optimism that seems to abound. What disturbs me most is that we look a lot more dangerous when we abandon the patient (or should I say ponderous) buildup and play in a more direct (not necessarily long ball) style.
I think there's a lot of rose tinted glasses around because 6 points from home games and 1 point from 2 away games over the season would have us second from bottom at the end based on previous years. Yes I know its a big leap based on so few games.

This post speaks to me.

I look at this team and the slow build-up from the back and it simply does not look dangerous to me. Like you, I have felt that this team seems most dangerous when there is more intentional forward movement. The plays when we are building up from the back seem too easy to break up, seem hesitant and seem unsure. I know people are in awe of this new "system" but I have been pretty adamant in my position that regardless of the system you choose you have to have the personnel to employ it and we simply don't. Based on that fact, I simply cannot be optimistic enough that we will improve sufficiently to become a dangerous team. Not until new personnel that can prove to handle this new system come into the fold. Therefore, until I see evidence that this team can indeed bring in the necessary personnel, I can't understand why a fanbase that has been dicked around for 4 seasons can possibly be anything but skeptical...and yet here we are.

Personally, I think teams will learn to shut down our new "system" and we will have a pretty bad year by anyone's standards. But from what I have seen around here, we will take those brief moments of positive play and stretch them into a rationalization that would allow us to feel "positive".

The only thing that would make me feel "positive" is a sustained run of positive results over an extended period of time.

pekduck
04-26-2011, 09:48 AM
^

I think the team overall lacks the urgency, drive and passion. However, urgency and the 4-3-3 build up are not mutually exclusive. They may be adapting to the new system to add in the key mental and behavioral aspects to the game.

It's easy to unleash the urgency and drive with direct style or single minded route one, or mindless runs and a barrage of runs.

It'll be great if such urgency can be displayed via the build up. Until then, the team will still look placid. For the system to be effective, urgency of off ball movements, drive to create open spaces, and determination to maintain possession all have to work together.

So yeah... that's my opinion, it won't gel until this season is over.

trane
04-26-2011, 09:58 AM
This post speaks to me.

I look at this team and the slow build-up from the back and it simply does not look dangerous to me. Like you, I have felt that this team seems most dangerous when there is more intentional forward movement. The plays when we are building up from the back seem too easy to break up, seem hesitant and seem unsure. I know people are in awe of this new "system" but I have been pretty adamant in my position that regardless of the system you choose you have to have the personnel to employ it and we simply don't. Based on that fact, I simply cannot be optimistic enough that we will improve sufficiently to become a dangerous team. Not until new personnel that can prove to handle this new system come into the fold. Therefore, until I see evidence that this team can indeed bring in the necessary personnel, I can't understand why a fanbase that has been dicked around for 4 seasons can possibly be anything but skeptical...and yet here we are.

Personally, I think teams will learn to shut down our new "system" and we will have a pretty bad year by anyone's standards. But from what I have seen around here, we will take those brief moments of positive play and stretch them into a rationalization that would allow us to feel "positive".

The only thing that would make me feel "positive" is a sustained run of positive results over an extended period of time.

I do not think that the 4-3-3 has to played with a slow build up, it can be, and I like it when it is played with quick counter attacks. I think it is best when played like that the formations allows for multiple quick routes of attack, on the wings, and throught the midle, in both cases the ball can be moved quickly from the back to the front, and it does not have to be fancy.

The biggest issue with the system, is the one that has already been identified, being able to defened and stay in good shape and position at the back, AND clearly, while the players at the back do not have to be great passers, they need to be solid. Ours can fuck up ( and do) under pressure.

Roogsy
04-26-2011, 10:04 AM
So yeah... that's my opinion, it won't gel until this season is over.

And my fear is that even if at the end of the season we see things to make us hopeful for next year, one of the things that this team also needs to prove is that they will stop the revolving door of players that has obstructed this team's ability to create cohesion. If this team goes into next year built in a similar manner to what it looks like at the end of the year and it doesn't fiddle around with players going into the first games of the season like we have every year of our existance but rather has it's core group of players playing together right from the start of training camp...well, maybe then I will allow myself to start feeling a little hopeful again.

trane
04-26-2011, 10:09 AM
^ Come summer time, I am not going to be keeping hope alive unless there are real signs of growth.

ManUtd4ever
04-26-2011, 10:15 AM
And my fear is that even if at the end of the season we see things to make us hopeful for next year, one of the things that this team also needs to prove is that they will stop the revolving door of players that has obstructed this team's ability to create cohesion. If this team goes into next year built in a similar manner to what it looks like at the end of the year and it doesn't fiddle around with players going into the first games of the season like we have every year of our existance but rather has it's core group of players playing together right from the start of training camp...well, maybe then I will allow myself to start feeling a little hopeful again.

Paul Mariner has stated publicly that the new regime's ambition is to assemble a nucleus of young players that can develop cohesion for years to come.

In MLS, roster turnover is inevitable, but if management can limit it to augmenting the existing young core with a few veterans, it will definitely bode well for the club's prospects of being successful in the future.

Roogsy
04-26-2011, 10:25 AM
I understand that...what I am saying is that I will wait to SEE it.

Mo also said a lot of nice stuff. He never came through. I don't want to burden Mariner with Mo's screw-ups but at the same time I don't have the desire to blindly trust anyone at TFC anymore so I will wait to see if he comes through on his promise before I give him credit for it.

pekduck
04-26-2011, 10:31 AM
^
So far the new management seemed to deliver on promises up to date.

A good sign. I would say I'm cautiously optimistic with the direction and undeniably pessimistic with the performance from time to time. :)

Maltese Falcon
04-26-2011, 10:36 AM
And my fear is that even if at the end of the season we see things to make us hopeful for next year, one of the things that this team also needs to prove is that they will stop the revolving door of players that has obstructed this team's ability to create cohesion. If this team goes into next year built in a similar manner to what it looks like at the end of the year and it doesn't fiddle around with players going into the first games of the season like we have every year of our existance but rather has it's core group of players playing together right from the start of training camp...well, maybe then I will allow myself to start feeling a little hopeful again.
I think that will be the big key to eventual success, yet I'm not so sure that will be possible I have no faith in export players remaining loyal to this team, regardless of contracts. If I were Frei I would be tired of this league/team by now, I wouldn't expect him around much longer, Stevanovic and Eckersley are on loan, De Guzman is nearing the end of his 3 year deal. I'm not sure if Attakora renegotiated his contract yet, I'm sure hes going to want more than the 40k a year he was making in 2010 and Cann flip flopped this summer.

When I look for progress with this team, I see more hope in stuff like the training grounds at Downsview and names like Stinson, Morgan, Lindsay, Henry and Cordon.

Auzzy
04-26-2011, 10:37 AM
If (= since) Winter & Mariner will be here before January next year, I highly doubt we will see so many last-minute signings in 2012.

I don't agree that we never look dangerous on the gradual build-up. Breaking down the TFC goal vs. Columbus, here's what happened:
- Gargan intercepts a pass at the edge of our third, one touch & then a short pass to:
- JDG (who had run well off the ball as soon as he saw it was going to Gargan), immediate short pass back to:
- Gargan (who had run well off the ball right after his pass, going wide), two touches and short pass to:
- Santos, short dribble to pull two Crew players away, then short pass to:
- Peterson on the sideline, immediate one touch short pass back to:
- Gargan, one touch and then short pass to:
- JDG (who had run well off the ball as soon as Peterson passed back), short dribble and then pass to:
- Gordon (who had run back & pulled Marshall way out of his position), immediate one-touch back to:
- JDG, first touch medium-length chip to:
- Tchani, first touch half-volley into the net.


Yes, we haven't seen enough of those sequences ending in a goal. But at those times when the guys were playing well in the past few weeks, I've seen quite a bit of action like that.


There was a nice mixture of playing styles on the weekend IMO: some patient build-up (through the middle), some fast or slow wing play, some dangerous long balls. Hopefully the patient build-up (and the clinical finishing to top it off) will improve over time. But in any case, the mix of styles is good to keep the other team stretched & guessing.

Roogsy
04-26-2011, 10:39 AM
I think that will be the big key to eventual success, yet I'm not so sure that will be possible I have no faith in export players remaining loyal to this team, regardless of contracts. If I were Frei I would be tired of this league/team by now, I wouldn't expect him around much longer, Stevanovic and Eckersley are on loan, De Guzman is nearing the end of his 3 year deal. I'm not sure if Attakora renegotiated his contract yet, I'm sure hes going to want more than the 40k a year he was making in 2010 and Cann flip flopped this summer.

When I look for progress with this team, I see more hope in stuff like the training grounds at Downsview and names like Stinson, Morgan, Lindsay, Henry and Cordon.

This is my concern as well.

P-NUTZ
04-26-2011, 11:42 AM
hey if they beat edmonton and then win/tie seattle - i would say this team is doing fairly well all things considered.

only 2 losses is a bright fact - even tho those losses were nightmares in shitting the bed.

Maltese Falcon
04-26-2011, 11:51 AM
I wonder what Winter and Mariner feel is their core going forward...here's what my list would be

Core:

3 D Nana Attakora Toronto FC 22: Injury problems this year but was a rock last year

25 D Danleigh Borman Toronto FC 26: Still Young decent LB likes to get forward, seems to fit well with this system


21 F Alan Gordon Toronto FC 29: Almost 30 but if he keeps up his form of late he'll give us a few good years


30 GK Milos Kocic Toronto FC 25: Hard to find a replacement for Frei, hopefully he'll get some starts this year, still young in Goalie years


33 F Javier Martina Toronto FC 24: Creative winger, has had some beauty goals this year, however, i could see him returning to Europe if he puts up good numbers this season.


23 M Jacob Peterson Toronto FC 25: More responsibility with the team this year, still young

7 F Joao Plata Toronto FC 19: Few appearances this year, quick

29 F Maicon Santos Toronto FC 27: Captain


22 M Tony Tchani Toronto FC 22: Looks to be a leader in the middle of the park for present and future



Players likely to leave:

27 D Richard Eckersley Toronto FC 22: Loan

10 M Alen Stevanovic Toronto FC 20: Loan

24 GK Stefan Frei Toronto FC 25: Europe bound (most likely)



Unclear Status:


12 D Adrian Cann Toronto FC 30: 30 years old, threatened to leave this past spring

17 M Elbekay Bouchiba Toronto FC 32: Old and injured

6 M Julian de Guzman Toronto FC 30: Contract expiring at the end of 2012 I believe, will he retire a Red?

11 M Nathan Sturgis Toronto FC 23: Limited playing time this year, more of a utility guy, has bounced around the leauge a bit, replaceable

19 D Mikael YourassowskyToronto FC28: Decent player not sure if he'll be one to keep tho, replaceable


Players I hope are not in long term plans:


8 D Dan Gargan Toronto FC 28:Fine sub, but if Winter has intentions of starting him I'd rather not have him

20 D Ty Harden Toronto FC 27: ^ditto

18 F Nick Soolsma Toronto FC 23: The second coming of Andy Welsh...but dutch


Unproven: Verdict still out on...

16 M Oscar Cordon Toronto FC 18: Prospect: Few appearances already this year, hopefully they keep giving him chances

28 D Doneil Henry Toronto FC 18: Prospect

28 M Gianluca Zavarise Toronto FC 24

31 D Dicoy Williams Toronto FC 24

26 M Matt Gold Toronto FC 22: Prospect

13 F Keith Makubuya Toronto FC 18: Prospect

2 D Demitrius OmphroyToronto FC 21: Prospect

37 M Nicholas Lindsay Toronto FC 18: Injured, promising prospect for the future

5 D Ashtone Morgan Toronto FC 20: Prospect

15 M Matt Stinson Toronto FC 18: Prospect

Detroit_TFC
04-27-2011, 07:55 AM
I like what Mariner said about the young players. It will keep them hungry, knowing that there are 1st team slots up for grabs.

DangerRed
04-27-2011, 08:54 AM
hey if they beat edmonton and then win/tie seattle - i would say this team is doing fairly well all things considered.

only 2 losses is a bright fact - even tho those losses were nightmares in shitting the bed.

How about the fact we've scored once in the last three games? Where does that sit with you?

KiwiRedsFan
04-28-2011, 04:07 AM
No need to panic. Things could be worse. I'm keeping the faith. :canada: