TFC to begin negotiations with Dickov, Huckerby

[chip_butty]

New Larry Millson column

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080703.wspttfc3/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home

[H Bomb]

Thanks homey! Something TFC that isn't miserable!!

[Lenny Dikestra]

That is great news.. Nice to see some new payers !!

[flatpicker]

all the talk is making me antsy!
I so look forward to the day when all these discussions are over with, and we have a quality strike force in Toronto.

[The Pope]

apparently Dicov is a "young" 35 year old

sweet!

[graeme117]

"But Toronto FC has first rights in Major League Soccer for both players, who have experience in the English Premier League, and general manager Mo Johnston will begin negotiations with them on Friday."

When he says first rights on both dickov and hucks, does he mean our allocation spot would be used on dickov (which would be mean mo has just been jerking Chicago around ;) )? or did we take out a discovery claim on dickov as well as hucks?

[The Kingpin]

What is happening with the McBride situation by the way... Could we add some quality depth as well??

[flatpicker]

What is happening with the McBride situation by the way... Could we add some quality depth as well??


that's what I am thinking.
If we landed these two then McBride's rights could serve TFC well in strengthening team depth.
I'm still confused about how much room we have under the cap (including allocation money).
But I will just chill and trust Mo and the gang know what they are doing.

[graeme117]

What is happening with the McBride situation by the way... Could we add some quality depth as well??

or if we deal w/ the fire do we lose the chance to sign dickov? man i can't wait for the window to open

[oxygenatedbrain]

"But Toronto FC has first rights in Major League Soccer for both players, who have experience in the English Premier League, and general manager Mo Johnston will begin negotiations with them on Friday."

When he says first rights on both dickov and hucks, does he mean our allocation spot would be used on dickov (which would be mean mo has just been jerking Chicago around ;) )? or did we take out a discovery claim on dickov as well as hucks?


Nothing to do with the allocation process

[Billy the kid]

I believe the allocation process is for American players returning to the MLS. I'm not certain about that though.

[graeme117]

Nothing to do with the allocation process

how do you figure? is it because no other team has taken an interest?

i find this system so confusing

[graeme117]

I believe the allocation process is for American players returning to the MLS. I'm not certain about that though.

then why would we have needed to file a discovery on huckerby? i thought that was to avoid loosing him to the allocation order... man wish BBtB was here

[Shaughno]

I believe the allocation process is for American players returning to the MLS. I'm not certain about that though.

I believe we would file two discovery claims on these players, unless SJ did so already with SJ.

[kelzag]

apparently Dicov is a "young" 35 year old

sweet!

I am too :D

[noochie]

"But Toronto FC has first rights in Major League Soccer for both players, who have experience in the English Premier League, and general manager Mo Johnston will begin negotiations with them on Friday."

When he says first rights on both dickov and hucks, does he mean our allocation spot would be used on dickov (which would be mean mo has just been jerking Chicago around ;) )? or did we take out a discovery claim on dickov as well as hucks?

I don't think there is a discovery claim filed on Dickov meaning that he really could go and sign with any team, I could be wrong though... you get 6 DS players per year. He doesn't really fall into allocation status because:

a) He is not a returning USMNT member
b) He is not of interest to all teams within MLS the way a Henry would be for example (or in less minced words... as important). Therefore the league would not step in here I would think.

[oxygenatedbrain]

then why would we have needed to file a discovery on huckerby? i thought that was to avoid loosing him to the allocation order... man wish BBtB was here

Yes, we all wish BBtB was here, etc. etc. etc.,

or, you could simply read the goddamn regulations for your self!

Here's a start BBtB would give you, were he still alive...


http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview

[noochie]

side note: allocations aside from returning USMNT team members are very wishy-washy. For example they could force Mo to use an allocation on Dickov (provided there was no discovery claim filed) just because they are pissed off that he is holding up the McBride homecoming parade.

[graeme117]

Yes, we all wish BBtB was here, etc. etc. etc.,

or, you could simply read the goddamn regulations for your self!

Here's a start BBtB would give you, were he still alive...


http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview

some one is still grieving me thinks ;)

as far as the regulations go i have read them (several times since last season) and still... i sit at my screen saying WTF

"The rankings will be separate and distinct from the allocation amounts and will only be relevant in the event two or more teams file a request for the same player on the same day, in the case of returning U.S. National Team players, or in other cases where the League, in its discretion taking into account all the circumstances, determines that the allocation rankings shall be applied"

[noochie]

see my last post... it is a last line of defence... but it has only been used 1 time(Donovan). That is why I say it is wishy-washy, they can step in whenever they want.

Likewise... how do you explain Wolff who just resigned with KC. He is on the national team and should have come back through allocation, but he didn't ;) and he wasn't loaned, he was sold.

[graeme117]

side note: allocations aside from returning USMNT team members are very wishy-washy. For example they could force Mo to use an allocation on Dickov (provided there was no discovery claim filed) just because they are pissed off that he is holding up the McBride homecoming parade.

that could be likely

[Broadview]

For example they could force Mo to use an allocation on Dickov (provided there was no discovery claim filed) just because they are pissed off that he is holding up the McBride homecoming parade.

The article suggests that discoveries were filed by Toronto. Also that Chicago are the ones who are not-so-antsy to make a deal.

The Chicago thing as presented doesn't really make sense though. I thought that if a player was out of contract, then there's no need to wait for the transfer period.

Is McBride still technically under contract to Fullham?

[reggie]

i say we get mapp in the mcbride trade and ship edu out,
he has been brutal this season.

[invictusTFC]

I'm not completely sold on Hucks or Dickov, but they'll definitely be an improvement on what we have... I think!

[noochie]

The article suggests that discoveries were filed by Toronto. Also that Chicago are the ones who are not-so-antsy to make a deal.

The Chicago thing as presented doesn't really make sense though. I thought that if a player was out of contract, then there's no need to wait for the transfer period.

Is McBride still technically under contract to Fullham?

No, but the MLS transfer window is the 15th of July (it is incorrectly listed in the rules and regs section of mlsnet.com as June 15th)

So the same would apply to Huckerby and Dickov coming in. Their earliest availabily would be for the game against SJ on the 19th.

Chicago is waiting it out to see what happens with the discovery signings by Toronto because they would not have to part with a player (considering TFC would have 0 room on the senior roster) and would likely only be giving up a pick and some money for McBride thus wriggling themselves off of Mo's hook.

[Footie-11]

Im preety sure we have a discovery claim on both. Also what im guessing is that we will trade McBrides rights for allocation because surely we don't have enough cap space to sign both do we?

[noochie]

Im preety sure we have a discovery claim on both. Also what im guessing is that we will trade McBrides rights for allocation because surely we don't have enough cap space to sign both do we?

It is likely that there is a discovery claim on Dickov as well (especially after other teams know that he is on the continent this week) although I have not seen it been stated as cleary as Hucks where Yallop has admitted that we have one to the press.

And yes, allocation money and possibly... their allocation order spot, and/or an "I" slot and/or draft pick.

[Wooster_TFC]

The real issue is where we are going to find the roster spots for these two + whatever we get back from Chicago.

I'm guessing Cunningham out, frees up both a senior roster spot and an I spot (since we have like 7 guys who qualify as American).

After that it gets interesting. Do you ship someone like Dunivant or Marshall out for draft picks/allocation? Do you send Edu to England for cash? Do you release Robert or Ricketts who might not be performing to their best? Do you dump Harmse even though he's canadian? Do you try and get Smith to go back to being SD, and dump Hemming again? or even Lombardo or Rosenlund? Maybe release Dichio then sign him as a coach?

I'm guessing Cunny gets shipped out, as does one of the surplus "qualifies as American" defenders (likely Marshall or Dunviant), and then a move to get Smith back on the SD. You might even see more than one D get shipped out since we have a ton at the back (although are lacking in this department on the developmental roster).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i say we get mapp in the mcbride trade and ship edu out,
he has been brutal this season.

Mapp plays wing
Edu plays DM

[noochie]

Mapp plays wing
Edu plays DM

Why do you have to swap position for position? You can change the formation or bring out a depth player.

[noochie]

The real issue is where we are going to find the roster spots for these two + whatever we get back from Chicago.

I'm guessing Cunningham out, frees up both a senior roster spot and an I spot (since we have like 7 guys who qualify as American).

After that it gets interesting. Do you ship someone like Dunivant or Marshall out for draft picks/allocation? Do you send Edu to England for cash? Do you release Robert or Ricketts who might not be performing to their best? Do you dump Harmse even though he's canadian? Do you try and get Smith to go back to being SD, and dump Hemming again? or even Lombardo or Rosenlund? Maybe release Dichio then sign him as a coach?

I'm guessing Cunny gets shipped out, as does one of the surplus "qualifies as American" defenders (likely Marshall or Dunviant), and then a move to get Smith back on the SD. You might even see more than one D get shipped out since we have a ton at the back (although are lacking in this department on the developmental roster).

haha... can of worms = opened.

Keep in mind also that there is a little known rule in MLS that the waiver period can be increased for 2 players on any team. Meaning that the guaranteed contract deadline that just passed may not apply to everyone on the team per se.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

well said.
was just discussing this. i would imagine that we will shift the likes of Dunivant and Cunny for an allocation or something to that effect as James has proven he can play LB or RB along with Velez and Brennan and Huckerby could play wing if needed. One of the great things about alot of the players we've gotten this year is the fact that they are quite versatile and able to play other positions if necessary without looking awkward.

[djking2]

It seems more likely to me now that Mo is looking to get an intangible like salary and/or roster allocations maybe draft picks from Chicago. Maybe still take Conde.

After Tuesday's postgame interview it wouldn't seem to me that JC would chop Cunny first. Just sayin

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Edu isnt going to England yet as he hasnt got the caps he needs, Cunny has been playing like crap (why sign other strikers if he was doing the job), Dunny is expendable in his area, wont cut the canadians as we need to fill quota. Feel pretty certain Dichio is an institution and that its too soon to trade/cut Ricketts and Robert (they dont deserve it yet either).

[noochie]

Edu isnt going to England yet as he hasnt got the caps he needs, Cunny has been playing like crap (why sign other strikers if he was doing the job), Dunny is expendable in his area, wont cut the canadians as we need to fill quota. Feel pretty certain Dichio is an institution and that its too soon to trade/cut Ricketts and Robert (they dont deserve it yet either).

I hate to say it but I agree that Dunny could be the odd man out in all of this. He has trade value based on his MLS experience and would be a useful cog at any club. Cunny as well as the rest of us know that his time is up.

[tlear]

So how would our formation look like with both of these guys signed? Will Dichio pair up with Huckerby up front, with Dickov playing from the wing? But then what do you do with Robert. With 2 strikers Edu will not be starting anymore(assuming we don't move to 3 man d). I only saw Huckerby highlights, does he work well as a single striker or he needs a partner?

If we got a striker to convert what Robert gives them. He might stop being a problem, I almost think Carver subbed him off because he did not want him to explode when Cuningham wasted another opportunity


-----------Sutton
Wynn---Velez---Marshall---Brennan
----------Robinson-----------
Rickets----Guevara----Robert
---Huckerby--Dickov or Dichio

Dichio works great against smaller central defenders but against huge guys (see last game first half) he probably is not the best solution.

I almost wish we got one of them (Huckerby) and got more quality depth, especially someone that can play in Guevara's position

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Another good question.
Prob the formation above
maybe a 4-3-3?
Dunno bout that as it would demand that RObert runs back more (dont blame him that he doesnt, we just know its not his style of play)

[Oblio2]

Hucks would be great...Dickov would be a fan favourite in about 2 fucking seconds.
He's like a Mini Dichio, only quicker...tough, fiery as fuck, battles hards, plays with passion and will go through a goddamn wall for his team.

[jimiv]

I think Robert or Rickets will both start looking great once they have a striker to pass to that can score.

[Oblio2]

Dichio and Dichov up front.

Headline: Dichio gets his Dickov
:)

[RealG-TFC]

Dichio and Dichov up front.

Headline: Dichio gets his Dickov
:)

:rofl:

[Smenge]

Mo has never before been so open about his plans. Is this a change in his strategy, or is he working on something entirely different. He might be trying to increase the value of these guys simply to try and get more out of an allocation move with San Jose and Chicago. I doubt either dichov or Huckerby sign with TFC. And don't be surprised to see Mo move one or two of the teams popular players in a trade. He needs a pure goal scorer on the team, and a fan favorite. With DP money, why settle for the likes of Huckerby and Dichov? After 15 July numerous players become available, and MO knows it.

[rocker]

why coudn't they trade Harmse? there's no quota he's filling. on game day I believe they need 2 domestics on the 18 man roster and that's it .. sutton/brennan... or any one of the youngsters.

[RealG-TFC]

As much as I hate saying this, Harmse hasn't been THAT bad.

[LucaGol]

Honestly, I'm really growing tired of all these MLS restrictions.....BIG time!

Have a little faith in the individual owners and give them more freedom to sign who they bloody well want.

[Cambridge_Red]

Honestly, I'm really growing tired of all these MLS restrictions.....BIG time!

Have a little faith in the individual owners and give them more freedom to sign who they bloody well want.

Only problem is that we would lose alot of teams that are protected with these rules. I think an adjustment in the rules is needed, but lets not be too hasty (NASL). The Beckham hoopla may ware off down south in a couple years. The MLS has done a great job protecting the teams from folding thus far, lets have a bit of faith.

[maninb]

Yoou can't trade Harmse, mainly because he's a Canuck...period.

[ManUtd4ever]

If signed, both Dickov and Huckerby will be the first legitimate strikers (with the ability to create and finish) to appear on TFC's roster in franchise history. In a variable 4-4-2 format these 2 new strikers would give our midfield many more options forming one of the more dangerous tandems in the league...Get it done MoJo!

[Draracle]

If signed, both Dickov and Huckerby will be the first legitimate strikers to appear on TFC's roster in franchise history. In a variable 4-4-2 format these 2 new strikers would give our midfield many more options forming one of the more dangerous tandems in the league...Get it done MoJo!

Cunny was a legit striker... too bad his last good year was two years ago.

[rocker]

Yoou can't trade Harmse, mainly because he's a Canuck...period.

nobody will give a shit cuz it's Harmse. in his place you put Hemming or some other Canadian.

If it's Huckerby in Harmse's spot (taking the senior roster position + an int spot from somebody), I'd do that move in a second, even if I'm giving Harmse away for nothing.

[kitchener-TFC]

I'm just worried that these two guys are kind of old (more Dickov), and will retire after 2 seasons. With a guy like Ricketts, he'll provide goals/assists for years.

[noochie]

^^ We have Ibbe for the future ;) We need a fix now!

[Pachuco]

No, but the MLS transfer window is the 15th of July (it is incorrectly listed in the rules and regs section of mlsnet.com as June 15th)

So the same would apply to Huckerby and Dickov coming in. Their earliest availabily would be for the game against SJ on the 19th.

Chicago is waiting it out to see what happens with the discovery signings by Toronto because they would not have to part with a player (considering TFC would have 0 room on the senior roster) and would likely only be giving up a pick and some money for McBride thus wriggling themselves off of Mo's hook.

Although the media has been wrong before. I am positive that in one of the articles they mentioned that Huckerby would not apply to the transfer window and could be signed anytime. Don't ask me why they said that, but they did. And don't ask me to look for it either :)

[Dirk Diggler]

If Huckerby and Dickov are out of contracts (which is the case, with Huck atleast, from what I remember), the transfer window does not apply to them.

[TFC07]

Cunny and Dunny or Marshall will be two players traded/waived IMO. I don't understand why people here suggesting that TFC should cut Harmse? He isn't that bad and he is very cheap. The fact he is Canadian, makes it easy for TFC not to trade him.

[TFC07]

Although the media has been wrong before. I am positive that in one of the articles they mentioned that Huckerby would not apply to the transfer window and could be signed anytime. Don't ask me why they said that, but they did. And don't ask me to look for it either :)


If Huckerby and Dickov are out of contracts (which is the case, with Huck atleast, from what I remember), the transfer window does not apply to them.

But they can't play until July 15th though.

[noochie]

If Huckerby and Dickov are out of contracts (which is the case, with Huck atleast, from what I remember), the transfer window does not apply to them.

Turns out that you guys are right but not for the reason that you state here. A free transfer is still a transfer because he is leaving one organization and joning another (in both cases the FA to MLS). However it turns out that once you file a discovery claim with the league you can sign those players at any time during the season.

This is why the rules apply to McBride because he is coming via allocations vs. discovery. It may also mean that if Huckerby and TFC can't get a deal done then SJ may have to wait for the window on July 15.

I found this out after I posted that earlier :)

[noochie]

btw... in case you were wondering, this is also how we were able to sign Tebily outside of the spring transfer window (i.e. Mo had a discovery in on him too). He joined nine days after the window had closed.

[TicTacTabarnack]

Noochie ... you're on fire with this thread today!

~fingers crossed~ that we can work out a deal!



-----------Sutton
Wynne---Velez---Marshall---Brennan
----------Robinson-----------
Ricketts----Guevara----Robert
---Huckerby--Dickov or Dichio


This formation nearly made me wet my pants!



If we got a striker to convert what Robert gives them. He might stop being a problem, I almost think Carver subbed him off because he did not want him to explode when Cuningham wasted another opportunity


LMAO ... Funny because it's true!

[Pachuco]

New Larry Millson column

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080703.wspttfc3/GSStory/GlobeSportsSoccer/home

This article has made me realize that Liam Miller is not here. You would think it would've been mentioned.

[Canadian Blue]

I am glad TFC are looking to upgrade their strikeforce but really neither Dickov or Huckerby would be a fantastic signing..........with that being said, if I had to choose I would take Huckerby. Dickov is listed as playing for Manchester City but I am pretty sure he didn't even make an appearance on the bench last season.

[djking2]

Turns out that you guys are right but not for the reason that you state here. A free transfer is still a transfer because he is leaving one organization and joning another (in both cases the FA to MLS). However it turns out that once you file a discovery claim with the league you can sign those players at any time during the season.

This is why the rules apply to McBride because he is coming via allocations vs. discovery. It may also mean that if Huckerby and TFC can't get a deal done then SJ may have to wait for the window on July 15.

I found this out after I posted that earlier :)

neither player could start til the 15th. Discovery allows for signing only if the player is out of contract. We filed discovery on Huckerby back in the spring but he was under contract with Norwich until May or so. To late to qualify for the primary transfer window so he has to wait. If he had been out of contract back then we could sign and start him.

McBride needs allocation because he's a USMNT pool player returning after his MLS rights have lapsed(2 years from when he left).

[Wooster_TFC]

Cunny and Dunny or Marshall will be two players traded/waived IMO. I don't understand why people here suggesting that TFC should cut Harmse? He isn't that bad and he is very cheap. The fact he is Canadian, makes it easy for TFC not to trade him.

I'll apologize for opening the can of worms with all my thoughts about who goes. The only reason I see Harmse possibly getting moved is if we sign BOTH Dickov and Huckerby AND get a player in the McBride deal. Although, I see both Dunny and Marshall getting moved before Harmse.

The reason I could see Harmse go is that we would likely switch back to a 4-4-2 with the two new signings, which puts one of the midfielders out of a starting job. Let's assume for now it's as you suggested and Edu is on the bench. Generally speaking the Wings get subbed out and the centre mids do not, so you've got Edu as your sub for either Guevara or Robinson, so what do you do with Harmse? Leave him to rot on the bench? He can't play the wing, and you've already got Huckerby, Smith, Brennan, Wynne, Hemming, Lombardo, Rosenlund who can slot in at wing (with Dickov in a pinch). Heck, you could probably even slot Brennan, Tebily or James in at DM if you needed someone. Even though he's a cheap, young canadian, I think we have a fair number of cheap young canadians who could be used to fill our quota, and that Harmse may very well be surplus to our requirements if we are using a 4-4-2.

Long term I think giving up Harmse would be a bad idea, but we have no idea what the MLS landscape is going to look like next year, let alone further along. Mo seems to be gearing his team up a little for the now, rather than for the future - hence the trade of Phelan for an I spot.

Note: I have completely ignored the international commitments for players, which tosses a whole nother wrench in the subject.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I am glad TFC are looking to upgrade their strikeforce but really neither Dickov or Huckerby would be a fantastic signing..........with that being said, if I had to choose I would take Huckerby. Dickov is listed as playing for Manchester City but I am pretty sure he didn't even make an appearance on the bench last season.

He was on loan to Blackpool where he scored something like 6 goals in 6 games (by the end of the season 6 goals in 11 games). He helped save them from relegation.

I would prefer Huckerby too (just because of the age thing, picky i know)

[noochie]

neither player could start til the 15th. Discovery allows for signing only if the player is out of contract. We filed discovery on Huckerby back in the spring but he was under contract with Norwich until May or so. To late to qualify for the primary transfer window so he has to wait. If he had been out of contract back then we could sign and start him.

McBride needs allocation because he's a USMNT pool player returning after his MLS rights have lapsed(2 years from when he left).

Signing players off of discovery doesn't seem to have anything to do with transfer windows (see: Olivier Tebily). According to the league rules as they are written they can be signed at any point during the season because the team signing in effect "owns" their MLS rights. And it has been stated by many outlets that the window does not apply to them.

[noochie]

McBride needs allocation because he's a USMNT pool player returning after his MLS rights have lapsed(2 years from when he left).

Where does the 2 years come from? I haven't seen it written anywhere but it would seem to explain the Wolff situation in KC.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Where does the 2 years come from? I haven't seen it written anywhere but it would seem to explain the Wolff situation in KC.

Theres an expiry date on players rights, its two or so years i believe.
If the player is gone from the MLS (and the team they left in the MLS) their rights go to the allocation process.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

For instance Will johnsons rights are currently owned by Chicago Fire. I believe they expire after this year and if he returns he goes to the allocation system (or maybe not as hes not a returning US player)... either way Chicago Fire will no longer own his rights after this season

[noochie]

Theres an expiry date on players rights, its two or so years i believe.
If the player is gone from the MLS (and the team they left in the MLS) their rights go to the allocation process.

Yes, I get that... where does the information come from though? Like a source?

[bangersandmash]

One slight modification to the proposed line-up:

-----------Sutton
Wynne---Velez---Marshall---Brennan
Ricketts----Guevara----Robert
---Huckerby--Dickov AND Dichio

Strength in the back, creativity in the middle and a savage need to bury the ball up front. Tasty.

[kitchener-TFC]

-----------Sutton
Wynn---Velez---Marshall---Brennan
----------Robinson-----------
Rickets----Guevara----Robert
---Huckerby--Dickov or Dichio


I like, I like! :D



Although, I see both Dunny and Marshall getting moved before Harmse.


Why would these two guys move? They're good. I'd rather get rid of Cunny and Dunivant


One slight modification to the proposed line-up:

-----------Sutton
Wynne---Velez---Marshall---Brennan
Ricketts----Guevara----Robert
---Huckerby--Dickov AND Dichio

Also nice. With this line-up, goals will happen for the club!

[TFC Cityboy]

erm..I see a flaw in the plan. The midfield is hopelessly understrength..not a tackler among them. Are you Kevin Keegan in disguise?
:)

[Bars92]

----Sutton-----
Wynne--Velez--Marshall--Brennan
-------Robinson--------
Ricketts--Guevara--Robert
----Hucks---Dickov-----

[Nodoubtguy]

----Sutton-----
Wynne--Velez--Marshall--Brennan
-------Robinson--------
Ricketts--Guevara--Robert
----Hucks---Dickov-----

pretty much how I see it.....

[noochie]

For instance Will johnsons rights are currently owned by Chicago Fire. I believe they expire after this year and if he returns he goes to the allocation system (or maybe not as hes not a returning US player)... either way Chicago Fire will no longer own his rights after this season

This is a different scenario than Wolff. Wolff was sold by MLS and KC was compensated. Johnson left on his own. In Johnson's case I can see how perhaps Chicago would retain rights (failed trials, etc) but it makes no sense for Wolff who was sold.

By the way I personally don't think there is an actual time limit. I think it is up to discretion of the league office what is a reasonable amount of time vs. what isn't (maybe 2 yrs is being used as a rule of thumb for the press?).

[Ossington Mental Youth]

This is a different scenario than Wolff. Wolff was sold by MLS and KC was compensated. Johnson left on his own. In Johnson's case I can see how perhaps Chicago would retain rights (failed trials, etc) but it makes no sense for Wolff who was sold.

By the way I personally don't think there is an actual time limit. I think it is up to discretion of the league office what is a reasonable amount of time vs. what isn't (maybe 2 yrs is being used as a rule of thumb for the press?).

You could be very right.
Im more or less just repeating what i seem to remember having read.

[rocker]

but if the player only wants to come back to 1 specific team, then they'll work things out. all the rules are meant to be broken when needed :)

[djking2]

here's a link to some clarification on Wolf Huckerby & Dickov

http://www.socceramerica.com/blogs/mls_confidential/?p=117

to quote "MLS can sign an out-of-contract player at any time, but only if his previous club released him during the domestic transfer windows can he be registered immediately and be eligible to play. (This doesn’t apply to a player who has been out of contract for longer than six months.)"

[noochie]

but if the player only wants to come back to 1 specific team, then they'll work things out. all the rules are meant to be broken when needed :)

exactly... it is all a black box... locked in garbers head at the league office in NY. amatures.

[lepenseur73]

Cunny goes. Marshall goes. McBride is a carrot - we deal him off to Chicago for consideration/allocation. Last thing we need is a player who does NOT want to play here. Huckerby goes to SJ for said consideration. We get Dickov.
This keeps our DP open.
Edu is sucking ass. Not as bad as Cunny. However I think it is because he is struggling with the set up. JC will go with the traditional Brit 4-4-2. Maybe some German-like twists...We have been having trouble up front and can't seem to find 2 that play well together...
---Mrs Sutton's little boy---
-Wynne--Velez--Dunni--Brennan-
----------Robo------------
---Guevara--Robert--------(Ricketts is a sub)
----------Mo--------------
-----Dickov--Dichio----
The Dickov/Dichio has a nice ring to it. Edu gets to play up, use the field to his advantage, and Guevara and Robert (both I would consider AM) would be more neutral, but a chance to play the wings. To be honest, the midfield in this model is a little mushy on D, but would be great for goals.

Personally, I don't think US players should take up International spots. Pretty gay. We should have a minimum for local talent on the roster, not a max on Int'l. It just makes little sense calling a guy like fresh out of US college an international. For that matter, Guys like JJ shouldn't be considered Int'l fresh out of US college, especially when he has lived practically his whole life in the US - at least the ones that count. All I am saying is there should be some sort of limited exemption for college players.

[noochie]

here's a link to some clarification on Wolf Huckerby & Dickov

http://www.socceramerica.com/blogs/mls_confidential/?p=117

to quote "MLS can sign an out-of-contract player at any time, but only if his previous club released him during the domestic transfer windows can he be registered immediately and be eligible to play. (This doesn’t apply to a player who has been out of contract for longer than six months.)"

Interesting, thanks for the link. This does make some sense then, although I wish it was written somewhere on the MLS site.

[Shaughno]

Cunny goes. Marshall goes. McBride is a carrot - we deal him off to Chicago for consideration/allocation. Last thing we need is a player who does NOT want to play here. Huckerby goes to SJ for said consideration. We get Dickov.
This keeps our DP open.
Edu is sucking ass. Not as bad as Cunny. However I think it is because he is struggling with the set up. JC will go with the traditional Brit 4-4-2. Maybe some German-like twists...We have been having trouble up front and can't seem to find 2 that play well together...
---Mrs Sutton's little boy---
-Wynne--Velez--Dunni--Brennan-
----------Robo------------
---Guevara--Robert--------(Ricketts is a sub)
----------Mo--------------
-----Dickov--Dichio----
The Dickov/Dichio has a nice ring to it. Edu gets to play up, use the field to his advantage, and Guevara and Robert (both I would consider AM) would be more neutral, but a chance to play the wings. To be honest, the midfield in this model is a little mushy on D, but would be great for goals.

Personally, I don't think US players should take up International spots. Pretty gay. We should have a minimum for local talent on the roster, not a max on Int'l. It just makes little sense calling a guy like fresh out of US college an international. For that matter, Guys like JJ shouldn't be considered Int'l fresh out of US college, especially when he has lived practically his whole life in the US - at least the ones that count. All I am saying is there should be some sort of limited exemption for college players.


Edu as an AM??? Why? He's shown little to no skill when attacking the box for the most part. He's a better fit for Robbo's role and it's his natural position to boot. He can play from the bench and put Guevara up top with Ricketts on the wing. Why, oh why would you bench Ricketts over Edu?????

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Cunny goes. Marshall goes. McBride is a carrot - we deal him off to Chicago for consideration/allocation. Last thing we need is a player who does NOT want to play here. Huckerby goes to SJ for said consideration. We get Dickov.
This keeps our DP open.
Edu is sucking ass. Not as bad as Cunny. However I think it is because he is struggling with the set up. JC will go with the traditional Brit 4-4-2. Maybe some German-like twists...We have been having trouble up front and can't seem to find 2 that play well together...
---Mrs Sutton's little boy---
-Wynne--Velez--Dunni--Brennan-
----------Robo------------
---Guevara--Robert--------(Ricketts is a sub)
----------Mo--------------
-----Dickov--Dichio----
The Dickov/Dichio has a nice ring to it. Edu gets to play up, use the field to his advantage, and Guevara and Robert (both I would consider AM) would be more neutral, but a chance to play the wings. To be honest, the midfield in this model is a little mushy on D, but would be great for goals.

Personally, I don't think US players should take up International spots. Pretty gay. We should have a minimum for local talent on the roster, not a max on Int'l. It just makes little sense calling a guy like fresh out of US college an international. For that matter, Guys like JJ shouldn't be considered Int'l fresh out of US college, especially when he has lived practically his whole life in the US - at least the ones that count. All I am saying is there should be some sort of limited exemption for college players.

I agree with some of this (formation not so much, too many people playing out of position). I dont see Marshall leaving over Dunivant either, Marshall has been more or less first team since he got here and Duni, not so much and as mentioned previously, he, his skills and his position are all expendable. I do agree with you on the international slots and am somewhat worried about Huckerby signing with San Jose. Lets just hope that he sees how pathetic they are at the moment (in all manners of being) and realizes that Winsper is a healer who can save him from the wretched field turf.

[djking2]

yeah Noochie it's a clusterfuck for sure. I was trying to find something specific on the USMNT pool guys and allocation that I read in the last few weeks too but so far this is all I've found.

"MLS director of communications Will Kuhns said the Wizards still own Wolff’s rights. That means if Wolff signs with the league, the Wizards would have the first crack at having him join their roster."

"Wolff signed with 1860 Munich, a second-division team in Germany, after the 2006 MLS season. His contract expired this spring after the season ended in Germany. Wolff’s wife, Angela, is expecting the couple’s third son in September, so Wolff has decided to return to the United States rather than seek another job in Europe."

from the article here http://www.kansascity.com/sports/story/679039.html

[leviticus]

well, after lurking on here for awhile i decided to finally post something. mainly i just want to say that i think that Dickov would be a terrible signing and Huckerby would do the club no worse, it certainly wouldn't make us better. it just seems like another guy coming here to collect his pension. plus Dichio already fills the Dickov role and Huckerby has lost his legs. given that Dickov is being scouted, I think we would be better to check out some of the other dropped players; in particular Geovanni. Also there is Christian Mouritsen who would be an interesting buy, a young kid looking for something beyond the Faroe Islands. As an added bonus Man City has a ton of extra strikers just hanging around Emile Mpenza, Nery Castillo, Roberto Bianchi, Bernardo Corradi, Darius Vassell, Valeri Bojinov (probably wouldn't want to leave as he is young and completely loved in Italy) Felipe Caicedo (similar situation to Bojinov but doesn't have the same reknown, loan maybe?) anyway, that isn't including Man City's real frowards, Jo, Benjani, future prospects Ched Evans and Daniel Sturridge. On top of all that we may have had the oppurtunity to get a player like Iain Hume who had just been dropped from the Championship, but Barnsley picked him up.

anyway, the options out there are good and we should definitely take our time in deciding the players we pick up.

one important point would be to get a new left back as Brennan is definitely is a LM rather than LB and that would provide some competition against Robert who really hasn't taken to playing for this team yet.

[noochie]

It almost seems as though the MLS has a blanket rule for retaining players rights. There really should be 3 scenarios:

1. Player is sold: rights are gone and player would go back through allocation process.

2. Player leaves after contract expiration of his own accord: rights are retained by the team for a minimum of 1-2 years.

3. Player's contract is not renewed or option is declined and then leaves for another non-MLS team: Players rights should be put on waivers and:
a) Players rights are picked up: That team has first crack at signing and first right of refusal ala discovery
b) Players rights clear waivers and become #2 where rights are retained for 1-2 yrs.

Look at this garbage with Noonan... CLB wants to sign him but because the Revs turned down the option on his contract they somehow still retain rights even though they threw him away. So CLB would have to compensate NE for their garbage. WTF is up with that?

[djking2]

the rules on allocation are

"(L.) RETURNING U.S. NATIONAL TEAM POOL PLAYERS
In the event a U.S. National Team pool player playing abroad returns to the U.S. and there is interest from multiple MLS teams, preference will be given first to a team prepared to use an allocation. If there is more than one team prepared to use an allocation on a particular player, the current season's allocation rankings as determined by the MLS Competition Committee would be used. In the event no team is willing to use an allocation, the player will be assigned via waivers.

and

"OUT OF CONTRACT PLAYERS / OPTIONS NOT PICKED UP: A team retains the right of first refusal to the player indefinitely only if attempts were made to re-sign the player."

from the MLS site here http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview

In essence McBride was sold (allocation required no retained rights) Wolf left (no allocation rights retained indefinitely)

[NateDoGG]

hucks wikipedia page


Darren Carl Huckerby (born April 23 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_23), 1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976) in Nottingham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottingham), England (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England)), is a professional footballer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_%28soccer%29) more famous for his time at Coventry City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coventry_City) and of course Man City (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_City). Darren is currently looking for a new club after being released by Norwich City. He is expected to sign with Toronto FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC).

[djking2]

Noochie

ya nailed it man

[noochie]

well, after lurking on here for awhile i decided to finally post something. mainly i just want to say that i think that Dickov would be a terrible signing

Well welcome aboard!

I have to say that I disagree with you on Dickov, he has obviously impressed the front office with his ability in the short time that he has been training here and there is virtually no risk in signing him. Because he is coming in the secondary transfer window we get him for half price and our finishing as-is can't get any worse.

As for all of the other players you mentioned... none of them were in the press box on Tuesday... so it is a pretty safe bet that none of them are coming here. ;)

[Canadian Blue]

Geovanni - signed with newly promoted Premiership side Hull City
Christian Mouritsen - Don't know about this guy
Emile Mpenza - 30 years old, lazy and doesn't score often
Nery Castillo - only on loan at City, belongs to Shatkar Donstk(sp?)
Roberto Bianchi - no chance, will be going back to Serie A
Bernardo Corradi - old journey man......and crap
Darius Vassell - no chance, butnot bad as he is a quick SOB
Valeri Bojinov - no chance, early 20's with alot of potential
Felipe Caicedo - don't know much about this guy
Jo - absolutely no chance - City just bought him for $19mil last week
Benjani - absolutely no chance one of the Premierships top scorers
Ched Evans - too young to leave England
Daniel Sturridge - Future England NT striker.....absolutely no chance

[noochie]

In essence McBride was sold (allocation required no retained rights) Wolf left (no allocation rights retained indefinitely)

Wolff was sold to 1860 for $192K. :) This is the league office sweeping this under the rug.

And yes, the indefinitely part is crazy for declined options... man they have their heads in their assess in NY. :)

[Pachuco]

Noochie and djking2 conversations are making my head hurt. :)

[djking2]

hey Pachuco see other thread on Pachuca TV

[noochie]

Noochie and djking2 conversations are making my head hurt. :)

These conversations are making my head hurt ;)

I almost feel like we need a rule forum in here so we can post this stuff as we discover it. Clearly the rules and regs page combined with the CBA aren't enough to explain all this schtuff.

[djking2]

Well don't leave FIFA out cause they have their say too

[noochie]

True, but the only saving grace there is that in 12 years, the league has never paid another team outside of MLS for a transfer of a player returning to MLS. These guys all come back as free agents.

[Rawkus_420]

side note: allocations aside from returning USMNT team members are very wishy-washy. For example they could force Mo to use an allocation on Dickov (provided there was no discovery claim filed) just because they are pissed off that he is holding up the McBride homecoming parade.


I could see MLS doing soething like that, Mo's palyign his cards cause he knows how the system works; and all the americans are mad about it. I hope we dickov and huckerby...I think those two up front will seriously tear up defenses up in the MLS ...we will be scoring alot! Sure give mcbride to chicago and get some added depth up front...i dont want some old american star anyways...fuck mcbride.

Also, we could play a number of formations with these guys. Hucks could play on the wing or up front( I would rather have him up front to give his knees less running) Guevara can move around a bit as well.

Sooo excited... i just have fromations and what we could do runnign through my head, if we sign those guys.

Ive told raging reggie from the beginning , if we get hucks his name is going on my TFC jersey!

[noochie]

Ive told raging reggie from the beginning , if we get hucks his name is going on my TFC jersey!

I would be very tempted to do the same... everywhere he goes he is a huge fan favourite.

[Kickit09]

on a side note, did anyone else notice in FIFA 08 Dickov is black. How the hell did EA Sports mess that one up.

[oxygenatedbrain]

True, but the only saving grace there is that in 12 years, the league has never paid another team outside of MLS for a transfer. These guys all come back as free agents.

Far from true. MLS started down that road in the late 90's:

$4,000,000 Hernandez, Luis UANL Tigres Los Angeles
$2,000,000 Graziani, Ariel Morelia Dallas
$1,400,000 Etcheverry, Marco Colo Colo D.C. United
$1,000,000 Valderrama, Carlos Atletico Junior Tampa Bay
$800,000 Hong, Myung-Bo Pohang Steelers Los Angeles
$500,000 Nowak, Peter 1860 Munich Chicago
$300,000 Comas, Alex Atletico National New York
$250,000 Diallo, Mamadou Lillestrom Tampa Bay
$250,000 Galvan Rey, Sergio Once Caldas New York
$200,000 Moreno, Jaime Middlesbrough D.C. United

and, high six figures:
Herrera, Marcelo miami fusion
Joao Luiz Ferreira Baptista vasco to metrostars
Sanchez, Wellington nacional ecuador to ny metrostars
Vega, Marcelo santiago wanderers to metrostars

and many others.

[oxygenatedbrain]

Wolff was sold to 1860 for $192K. :) This is the league office sweeping this under the rug.

And yes, the indefinitely part is crazy for declined options... man they have their heads in their assess in NY. :)

Not necessarily:

PLAYER TRANSFERRED OUTSIDE MLS: If a replacement allocation is granted, a team does not retain a right of first refusal unless the team has not yet used or traded in full or part the compensatory allocation. In such a case, the team may retain the right of first refusal on the player provided they surrender the full amount of the replacement allocation. If an allocation is not granted, the team will retain a right of first refusal should he return to MLS.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

judging by that list, they are hesitant on transfers due to the shit theyve gotten in return in the past

[noochie]

Not necessarily:

PLAYER TRANSFERRED OUTSIDE MLS: If a replacement allocation is granted, a team does not retain a right of first refusal unless the team has not yet used or traded in full or part the compensatory allocation. In such a case, the team may retain the right of first refusal on the player provided they surrender the full amount of the replacement allocation. If an allocation is not granted, the team will retain a right of first refusal should he return to MLS.

I know but this is still broken. Money is arguably the biggest commodity not allocations. So all this does is cheapen the allocation system given that they money gained can be used to go out and sign players on discovery, then you can bring back the same player.

[noochie]

Far from true. MLS started down that road in the late 90's:

$4,000,000 Hernandez, Luis UANL Tigres Los Angeles
$2,000,000 Graziani, Ariel Morelia Dallas
$1,400,000 Etcheverry, Marco Colo Colo D.C. United
$1,000,000 Valderrama, Carlos Atletico Junior Tampa Bay
$800,000 Hong, Myung-Bo Pohang Steelers Los Angeles
$500,000 Nowak, Peter 1860 Munich Chicago
$300,000 Comas, Alex Atletico National New York
$250,000 Diallo, Mamadou Lillestrom Tampa Bay
$250,000 Galvan Rey, Sergio Once Caldas New York
$200,000 Moreno, Jaime Middlesbrough D.C. United

and, high six figures:
Herrera, Marcelo miami fusion
Joao Luiz Ferreira Baptista vasco to metrostars
Sanchez, Wellington nacional ecuador to ny metrostars
Vega, Marcelo santiago wanderers to metrostars

and many others.

I was talking about players who used to play in MLS, coming back to MLS.

[oxygenatedbrain]

Look at this garbage with Noonan... CLB wants to sign him but because the Revs turned down the option on his contract they somehow still retain rights even though they threw him away. So CLB would have to compensate NE for their garbage. WTF is up with that?

Columbus has no problem with compensating NE: the hold up is that MLS, Noonan and AFK are nowhere near agreeing what the player is worth...

[oxygenatedbrain]

I was talking about players who used to play in MLS, coming back to MLS.

Ah, right...that would be even more interesting...

[noochie]

Columbus has no problem with compensating NE: the hold up is that MLS, Noonan and AFK are nowhere near agreeing what the player is worth...

I know they don't mind. But I guess my point is that they shouldn't have to compensate. To me it doesn't make sense that a players contract ends (through a management decision) which should make them a free agent.

I am sure NE is saying "I would love to have something for nothing, had no idea he would be back so soon after we cut him loose." ;)

[oxygenatedbrain]

@ noochie, or anyone who might give a damn:
As you seem to take an interest: I can't seem to get an answer whether there is, or has been in the past, a rule which dictates that a discovery claim cannot receive a contract larger than $99,999.99. This is being asserted on other forums (SJ BS, e.g.)...anything?

[noochie]

@ noochie, or anyone who might give a damn:
As you seem to take an interest: I can't seem to get an answer whether there is, or has been in the past, a rule which dictates that a discovery claim cannot receive a contract larger than $99,999.99. This is being asserted on other forums (SJ BS, e.g.)...anything?

Sounds like BS to me. Tebily was signed on a discovery claim and he is making 157K. That is without signing bonus (if there was one).

[lepenseur73]

Edu as an AM??? Why? He's shown little to no skill when attacking the box for the most part. He's a better fit for Robbo's role and it's his natural position to boot. He can play from the bench and put Guevara up top with Ricketts on the wing. Why, oh why would you bench Ricketts over Edu?????


Not sure if I should respond? Edu as an AM is a just a thought. Think about it. Think Edu from last year. Forget the sophomore curse. I see Robert and Guevara as the set up men, with Edu as a playmaker/finisher.

I am not replacing Ricketts with Edu. I think Ricketts could be utility anywhere. I guess you could say the same about Mo. So sure, Ricketts instead of Mo. But if we want to get our ROI on Edu, we should let him play.

All I am doing is thinking outside the box and not locking guys into positions based on their past. We should be playing TO STRENGTHS. Obviously, right now we are not.

There need to be a shakeup and it should start with Cunny. D is pretty sound, but needs some tinkering. Dunny i/o Tyrone - it doable and affordable (to the team strategy) AND it frees up a spot. Maybe I am wrong, by Tyrone is inconsistent. He f**ks up 85% of the time, neutral 10% and shines 5%. Why should a manager support that?

It's not unheard of to move guys around inside their position, even moving D's for S's...

Food for thought...