I am not worried-I believe

[DichioTFC]

I can see progress. I see and understand what we are trying to do and believe that by the summer we will be a much better football team.

I expect that there will be major stumbles along the way, but ultimately for the first time I share the teams vision and goals, and believe that they will be achieved.

I remind people that I was among the first to get of our past sinking ships, I do not think this is one.

Agreed. I've said this before but I believe in the system. Recent setbacks aside, we're better now than we were before.

[123 elite]

I ducked out of this one for a day or two as it was getting too heated. But first up i am not a troll. Second ... the Koola-aid ref was because i genuinely am baffled by the 'positives' being spun. I entered a discussion to which i get told that i am either a troll or bugger off and not watch or go support another team. And i am in some way responsible for people not logging on here anymore. This is the same red patch boys that regularly have issues with MLSE and vocalise them ? But no difference of opinion on here ? Hypocritcial or what. I have put a lot of time and effort and money into this club and ...well fuck you for calling me a troll. I have been very positive over the years regarding the sorts of players that have been slagged off relentlessly on this board. Guys like Wynne, Vitti, Guevara, Dero, Robinson, Brennan Serioux regularly got it in the neck from tons of people on here and i stuck up for them. I saw a lot of positives in the season that, barring injury time conceded goals, would have seen us close to top and certainly in the playoffs. Six games in this is the worst i have seen. Season 1 included. I am going to say it and i wont bugger off and support the whitecaps. i'll be there cheering on Saturday. And if it is shit i will say so and see you all the following game.

[ExiledRed]

Mo traded Brian McBride for Chad Barrett and Stefan Frei and allocation money

it's all how you look at this trade, I suppose

I guess I never really factored in Frei to that trade. Mo couldnt have at the time either, he'd had little success with late draft picks before, he couldnt have anticipated he'd get Frei with that pick.

I think Bad luck Barrett, his salary and contract were more damaging to the club than Frei has been beneficial. If you think about it, Mo could have had Busch in goal in season one, and Conway was unlucky to be in Frei's team because he was quality too.

[James17930]

I think the law of averages (and forced MLS parity) will dictate that sometime within the next 15 - 20 years we will have a decent team.

;)

But seriously -- given all the change and crap that has gone on so far this year, if we were to at least retain the NCC (which is by no means an easy feat) and get back into the CCL, I think that would be a major achievement and I could be happy with that, regardless of league standing (although I would at least like to finish 15th or higher in the league).

[ensco]

I guess I never really factored in Frei to that trade. Mo couldnt have at the time either, he'd had little success with late draft picks before, he couldnt have anticipated he'd get Frei with that pick.


I agree. I like Frei too, but he fell in the draft because the one thing that's plentiful in the MLS ecosystem is good GKs.

That whole draft, with Gonzalez already getting USMNT callups and our 2 and 4 picks gone for nothing, is properly on any list of TFC's biggest disasters.

To be fair, Exiled, at the time of the trade, Barrett was a player that Chicago was playing, so he had some value. I think the mistake was in taking McBride in the first place - I think the next guy who came along in the allocation system was worth more than what we got for McBride (can't remember who it is). Also part of this was Mo's machinations around getting Johann Smith via allocation, IIRC, which also didn't pay off...

[CanadaLFC]

I used to be very optimistic about TFC, but the last four seasons have turned me into a pessimist. I dont even think the current crop of players can handle the system Winter is trying to implement. I can never "share vision" with MLSE, unless that vision is making some serious money. FFS...it's so wrong that we're "re-building" in our fifth season.


Having said that I will come out to games no matter what and always support the team!

[Yohan]

I agree. I like Frei too, but he fell in the draft because the one thing that's plentiful in the MLS ecosystem is good GKs.

That whole draft, with Gonzalez already getting USMNT callups and our 2 and 4 picks gone for nothing, is properly on any list of TFC's biggest disasters.

To be fair, Exiled, at the time of the trade, Barrett was a player that Chicago was playing, so he had some value. I think the mistake was in taking McBride in the first place - I think the next guy who came along in the allocation system was worth more than what we got for McBride (can't remember who it is). Also part of this was Mo's machinations around getting Johann Smith via allocation, IIRC, which also didn't pay off...
i just put in frei there, because everyone is putting in their 2 cents with benefit of hindsight

at the time, considering mcbride didn't want to play for TFC, we got Barrett, allocation money, and a first round pick. i dunno about you, but that sounds like a good deal to me.

apparently after McBride, it was Johann Smith and Eddie Lewis on the allocation draft list

[Beach_Red]

i just put in frei there, because everyone is putting in their 2 cents with benefit of hindsight

at the time, considering mcbride didn't want to play for TFC, we got Barrett, allocation money, and a first round pick. i dunno about you, but that sounds like a good deal to me.

apparently after McBride, it was Johann Smith and Eddie Lewis on the allocation draft list


The issue wasn't so much Barrett but the huge contract he got. It seems strange to me that it's not a conflict of interest that the player and the GM in the negotiations had the same agent, but apparently that's okay in MLS. Maybe it's a single-entity thing.

[jloome]

You're not getting into the spirit of the idea!

We TFC SSHs already donate money for dubious entertainment purposes, how would this be different? :D

(also, seriously, nobody's ever as good or as bad as you think - I genuinely believe Mo screwed up, but I still think he's sorta kinda interesting)

I would suggest that unless you're a very good interviewer, it would be extremely tough to get to the root of Mo's issues -- which are deeply personal and emotional, I believe, and rooted in his very odd background -- in two hours.

I think you'd be a little frustrated at the end.

[ensco]

I put this somewhere else but it belongs here...watching RSL and NY play this week makes my blood boil. Will those teams beat us 8-0?

This is a simple sport. It's about talent identification and player acquisition. Period. Even the hated Mo understood this, he just wasn't good at it in the end.

I have a simple question for the TFC FO: where are the players?

Who have we brought in? Martina, a couple of guys on loan (the antithesis of building, btw) and a couple of guys in a forced trade. The FO can say they're being careful and deliberate all they want, bottom line is they're standing around while everyone else gets better.

Every other team is trying to plug holes and make the playoffs. This year.

Our FO is deliberately choosing to throw the season away, and all the "I believe" people are cheering them on.

[2mil4dero+santo]

I put this somewhere else but it belongs here...watching RSL and NY play this week makes my blood boil. Will those teams beat us 8-0?

This is a simple sport. It's about talent identification and player acquisition. Period. Even the hated Mo understood this, he just wasn't good at it in the end.

I have a simple question for the TFC FO: where are the players?

Who have we brought in? Martina, a couple of guys on loan (the antithesis of building, btw) and a couple of guys in a forced trade. The FO can say they're being careful and deliberate all they want, bottom line is they're standing around while everyone else gets better.

Every other team is trying to plug holes and make the playoffs. This year.

Our FO is deliberately choosing to throw the season away, and all the "I believe" people are cheering them on.

I couldn't agree with you more...

[tiberius]

... I have a simple question for the TFC FO: where are the players?...

Our FO is deliberately choosing to throw the season away, and all the "I believe" people are cheering them on.

Agreed... I translate the "I believe" people to be saying: "I believe the new management will turn things around, but we are going to have to put up a lot of crap on the field, for a long time - lets just relax and worry about next year..."

We need to see some positive action from the FO soon - waiting for some of the current guys to improve their touch and passing skills while also trying to adapt to Winter's system will almost assuredly leave us as cellar dwellers...

[Beach_Red]

The was bound to be a honeymoon period for anyone brought in now. The biggest improvement seems to be the new management doesn't say things like, "We're going to sign a big name guy tomorrow," and then doesn't do it.

Oh wait, they have said that, just no one's made a big deal about it. Way back in January Mariner said something about "almost" signing someone and people yelled how that sounded familiar and the talk of signing players slowed down. But then in thenlast couple of weeks we heard about "imminent" signings that didn't happen.

I still think this team will be a lot better by the end of the season than it is now. The question is, how much better will the other teams in the league be?

[Bars92]

Looks like they are going to work with these young players this year. We will finish next to last and attendance will plumit. Next year then plug in a good attacking forward DP and the youth movement will hopefully have paid off and we'll win some games, maybe get attendance back up again. Thats all I can guess..

[bman27]

Its so easy for us to say why are they not making any moves, etc etc, but you have to remember that Mariner and Winter, both hired around Jan 7th only had 24 days with the European transfer window open, and that was their first 24 days, when most time would be spend evaluating assets, contracts, developing systems etc. after that closed all they had to work with was free agents, now when complaining about quality, how deep do you honestly think the quality level is in the free agent pool is 6 months into the season for many leagues around the world? the South American windows don't normally open up until march when you generally want the majority of your roster in place. Now we are stuck in our freeze till the european window opens again, i would hope we would see some results coming from this given the chance to scout. I hardly think they are content with this roster

[ensco]

^There is some truth to this. It's only been 4 months.

Even still, most guys don't come to MLS on transfers.

I don't feel they've done as much as they could have. I see how active other teams are being right now, and the preachy "patience" speeches are bothering me a bit, in that context. They are grinding the SSHs bad with that, it will cost them, imho.

[bman27]

^There is some truth to this. It's only been 4 months.

Even still, most guys don't come to MLS on transfers.

I don't feel they've done as much as they could have. I see how active other teams are being right now, and the preachy "patience" speeches are bothering me a bit, in that context. They are grinding the SSHs bad with that, it will cost them, imho.

You say how active other teams are being right now but check out the list of in season transactions so far http://www.mlssoccer.com/transactions other then portland signing their dp, it really hasn't been that busy and we are right up there in movement

[ensco]

You say how active other teams are being right now but check out the list of in season transactions so far http://www.mlssoccer.com/transactions other then portland signing their dp, it really hasn't been that busy and we are right up there in movement

Sure. This isn't the obvious time to make moves. Preseason is, and we didn't do that either, partly for good reasons also.

Point is, we should be disproportionately active. We are disproportionately inactive.