TFC set record for Attendance?

[Pookie]

Just musing this morning.

Announced attendance last night was 16,313

There is some debate whether that figure is reflective of tickets sold or entry in but regardless, our previous MLS regular season low was 18,084. That was for Columbus in the heat of the MLSE protests back in October of last year.

That's close to 7,000 seats short of capacity. Unsold. And I believe this is a new Club record for the MLS regular season.

Yay!

So, we had weather and poor performance in 4 previous seasons. And DC didn't have someone named Beckham in their line up. Folks say that winning will change everything and my belief is that those folks work in the FO. These are all just excuses.

Winning does not justify prices. Winning does not mean that we are all willing to pay more to see the team.

Prices are a function of your target market, their disposable income and the perceived value (again, not winning) that one gets for buying the ticket.

Prices, my dear friends are way out of whack.

Your "premium game" BS needs to end. Price gouging in LA, Seattle and Toronto to subsidize the lower drawing clubs in this revenue sharing league is not healthy over the long term.

[levyashin]

well put young man

[prizby]

i believe arabe uniodo was less than this


pookie don't tell them this, but lower prices means more seats sold...more seats sold results in more concession sales...i bet you with lower prices, season ticket holders would be more willing to buy more concessions!

[lobo]

Just musing this morning.

Announced attendance last night was 16,313

There is some debate whether that figure is reflective of tickets sold or entry in but regardless, our previous MLS regular season low was 18,084. That was for Columbus in the heat of the MLSE protests back in October of last year.


i think last night should put to rest the source of attendance debate ... if it was announced at 16k, then it is quite clear it is based on tickets sold, because there huge huge areas of empty last night, my guess is something less than 50% of seats were filled

[kaos197O]

i believe arabe uniodo was less than this
He's talking about REGULAR SEASON MLS matches.

I'm not surprised at all. It will get worse too. I hear people saying that when the weather gets nice more will show up. That's simply not true. The last few seasons we've seen some very bare summer nights, in part due to the heat and in part due to people vacationing. Having said that, I don't care how many people show up. I go, I support, I leave. One thing is certain though, I am finished with paying for my Dark Greys. Will relocate all of them to cheapest available and then sit wherever I want to. So the fewer the people, the better my options become, and MLSE takes a hit to their pocketbook to boot. WIN, WIN, WIN!

[prizby]

He's talking about REGULAR SEASON MLS matches.


i didn't read the post...i was replying to the topic name

[swan]

should be more then a price freeze next year, they only say that because they got the prices right up to where the want them nice and high they should be lowered..

[nfitz]

... if it was announced at 16k, then it is quite clear it is based on tickets sold ...Though there are more season tickets than that ... let alone partials, and presumably there were some tickets sold in advance.

16K looked about right to me ... a lot of people were elsewhere than their seats; I never came close to mine. I'm sure the covered north stand was popular (even if it never actually rained).

[Beach_Red]

Unfortunately, TFC is settling in the middle of the MLS pack, about where MLSE originally thoght they'd be. Maybe a little more, 16k instead of 14k, but we'll see by the end of the year.

So, their market research was correct because they knew their business model - charge too much and put out a poor product and get 14k a game. Everybody's happy at head office.

[mclaren]

I dumped my season ticket this year and very happy I did, largely to send a strong signal to MLSE not to take fans for granted. Their business practices have been despicable. There's an old saying in the bible, something about reaping what you sow. Seems like the harvest for MLSE this year is gonna be pretty slim pickings.

I'll still watch the team online but until MLSE shows they RESPECT the fans, I won't be back.

[Kc17]

I hope MLSE feels good about turning the hottest ticket in town, into something thats hard to give away at this point. What a joke they are.

I thought we'd hover around 18/19K this year, but early signs tell me we'll be lucky to break 17K for the whole season. Unless this team starts really winning, and showing signs of massive improvement, I can't see attendance getting better. Its a shame, but next season we'll probably see 13-15K a game.

[Pookie]

Unfortunately, TFC is settling in the middle of the MLS pack, about where MLSE originally thoght they'd be. Maybe a little more, 16k instead of 14k, but we'll see by the end of the year.

So, their market research was correct because they knew their business model - charge too much and put out a poor product and get 14k a game. Everybody's happy at head office.

I wouldn't say they are happy. They have expenses now that they didn't factor into their business model. The investment in grass, the Academy and $1.7M worth of JDG.

They've lost their ability to leverage lower ticket prices for their other brand, the Marlies and with declining attendance at the ACC, maybe even the Raptors.

The lower price points resulted in sold out season ticket lists, sold out partial packs and "All Seasons" packs and a wait list that was probably longer in intent then it was in ability to pay but it was large nonetheless.

That worked because a TFC ticket was once scarce. People bought Marlies' tickets just to get a chance at buying a season ticket down the road. A season ticket represented value. Price was reasonable and as a result the value that came with it was significant. Now? I can get a season ticket after everyone on the Gold and Red list has had a crack at them.

Let's not even get into the league's loss here. Where only 3 teams turn a profit and the revenue is shared, declining attendance isn't making them happy.

[Pookie]

I hope MLSE feels good about turning the hottest ticket in town, into something thats hard to give away at this point. What a joke they are.

I thought we'd hover around 18/19K this year, but early signs tell me we'll be lucky to break 17K for the whole season. Unless this team starts really winning, and showing signs of massive improvement, I can't see attendance getting better.

But "winning" and ticket prices can't be equated.

Because the theory goes that the more you win, the higher your prices will go.

What happens then?

Those that have held tickets for 5-10 years finally get to see a winning product and they get ass thumped by the FO.

Once burned, twice shy. Attendance will drop like a stone in the years following a Cup victory.

Further, how do you set your prices in advance of a season? The team might exceed projections, do we get a bill? If the team falls short of projections, do you get a refund? Either way, you can't administer that.

[Pookie]

Though there are more season tickets than that ... let alone partials, and presumably there were some tickets sold in advance.



That's the question of the day isn't it? How do we know that they have over 16,000 season tickets sold?

If the attendance reported truly is "paid" attendance then this team isn't getting much more than a sniff of the walk up crowd and the half season packs are about as valuable as a Toronto Maple Leaf 2010-11 Playoff ticket

[wzhxvy]

Maybe the genius that is Paul Bierne wants to revisit the North Stand and make it a supporters section like it was supposed to be...its a wasteland now and looks horrible....never mind that...the East stand has been a joke for 3 years right in the middle...do what DC united did and put the supporters right in the middle together so at least it looks good on camera....

[drexel10]

That's the question of the day isn't it? How do we know that they have over 16,000 season tickets sold?

If the attendance reported truly is "paid" attendance then this team isn't getting much more than a sniff of the walk up crowd and the half season packs are about as valuable as a Toronto Maple Leaf 2010-11 Playoff ticket


Attendance is people who showed up through the electronic turnstile. I personally know about a dozen people who didn't use their already paid for ticket. The thing is, nobody really knows how many tickets were purchased for yesterday's game, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 20K.

[Blixa]

Crap team + crap stadium does not bode well for attendance in the long term.

[Phil]

Winning means they are making more money because it means more games.

Hardly a justfication for any increase IMO.

[Beach_Red]

I wouldn't say they are happy. They have expenses now that they didn't factor into their business model. The investment in grass, the Academy and $1.7M worth of JDG.

They've lost their ability to leverage lower ticket prices for their other brand, the Marlies and with declining attendance at the ACC, maybe even the

Let's not even get into the league's loss here. Where only 3 teams turn a profit and the revenue is shared, declining attendance isn't making them happy.

well, they weren't unhappy enough to make any changes at the exec level. And they had unexpected revenue, too, the Edu sale, four years of higher-than expected ticket sales and operating with a skeleton FO. So far the investment in the team doesn't match the revenue, so they are doing very well. The deal for the academy will be complicated and inc.ude partners ans sponsorship deals so we'll never really know how much cash MLSE has put up.

As for leveraging tickets with other teams, that was also just a temporary, unexpected bonus and I'm sure at board meetings the representatives fom the other teams have to stand on their own. Yes, it's something that's been lost, but not something they were counting on anyway.

And from the Cup debacle last year the league has stopped looking at TFC as the gold standard of the league. Luckily for the league, many oher teams have stepped up.

MLSE run a middle of the pack operation and are quite satisfied with that.

[Pookie]

Attendance is people who showed up through the electronic turnstile. I personally know about a dozen people who didn't use their already paid for ticket. The thing is, nobody really knows how many tickets were purchased for yesterday's game, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was over 20K.

I have to dispute that.

A number of sources highlight that MLS attendance figures are based on the number of tickets distributed not the number that pass through the scanners.

That would explain why attendance was pegged at 18,809 for last year's game during the G20 that resulted in free tickets for those that couldn't make the game. If nearly 19,000 were actually there, there is no way they give up free tickets.

[zeelaw]

Don't worry Edmonton is gonna destroy this number.

[Niall]

Real indication of the times: Scalpers were offering 5 tickets for $40 on my way into the stadium...

[tiberius]

Real indication of the times: Scalpers were offering 5 tickets for $40 on my way into the stadium...
For a cold wet night, last night, I picked up a pair of club seats for $20 each - a sign of the times in the prawn section...:hump:

[Suds]

I had 3 free tickets I could not give away. A friend of mine picked up a pair free on this board. Unreal!

No way there was over 16k inside BMO last night. The east stand was maybe 30% full.

[2mil4dero+santo]

Just musing this morning.

Announced attendance last night was 16,313

There is some debate whether that figure is reflective of tickets sold or entry in but regardless, our previous MLS regular season low was 18,084. That was for Columbus in the heat of the MLSE protests back in October of last year.

That's close to 7,000 seats short of capacity. Unsold. And I believe this is a new Club record for the MLS regular season.

Yay!

So, we had weather and poor performance in 4 previous seasons. And DC didn't have someone named Beckham in their line up. Folks say that winning will change everything and my belief is that those folks work in the FO. These are all just excuses.

Winning does not justify prices. Winning does not mean that we are all willing to pay more to see the team.

Prices are a function of your target market, their disposable income and the perceived value (again, not winning) that one gets for buying the ticket.

Prices, my dear friends are way out of whack.

Your "premium game" BS needs to end. Price gouging in LA, Seattle and Toronto to subsidize the lower drawing clubs in this revenue sharing league is not healthy over the long term.

lets be patient and stop the negativity. They are rebuilding everything, including the prices lol. Just give it time, be patient and the prices will get better. I believe.

[boban]

Just musing this morning.

Announced attendance last night was 16,313

There is some debate whether that figure is reflective of tickets sold or entry in but regardless, our previous MLS regular season low was 18,084. That was for Columbus in the heat of the MLSE protests back in October of last year.

That's close to 7,000 seats short of capacity. Unsold. And I believe this is a new Club record for the MLS regular season.

Yay!
The stadium attendance is 21,800, not 23,000 as somewhere in Wiki it says so. If you read the details on the Wiki page it states 21,800. That would make it 6,000 unsold seats, not 7,000.
Prior to expansion the stadium sat 20,500. The new north stand is about 1,250. There is no way in hell that stand seats 2,500+ people. Not even close.

[tiberius]

lets be patient and stop the negativity. They are rebuilding everything, including the prices lol. Just give it time, be patient and the prices will get better. I believe.

No need to wait for better pricing - it is here now - after getting hosed by 4 years of season tickets - I am free! Ticket are 10-20 cents on the dollar! I bet half the "casual fans" there last night were there with freebies or a deep discount ticket - travelzoo anyone? Very cheap tickets is the only reason there were as many fans as there were last night...:hump:

The only problem with this great pricing is that Toronto FC is doing this on the backs of their season ticket holder base. The iceburg lurking under the surface is that the number of season ticket holders who will renew this fall is somewhere between... slim and none -

That is when BMO field will be empty - nobody is going to pay MLSE/Toronto FC pricing next year - A "paid" attendence of 16K last night tells you what shape their season ticket holder base is in - steep, steep decline, given they exhausted a waiting list of at least 15 thousand fans?

Reducing ticket prices by 25% won't save us... We are on the Titanic with this team, we will hit the iceburg during STH renewal in September and the team will sink into oblivion in the cold winds of March and April of 2012...:picard: We are the band that will be playing as the Toronto FC ship sinks into a cold watery grave...

Anybody got any ideas? I hate cold salt water... :drinking:

[gomesv]

Real indication of the times: Scalpers were offering 5 tickets for $40 on my way into the stadium...

This is precisely why I won't be renewing next year.... What a joke

[ilikemusic]

Don't worry Edmonton is gonna destroy this number.

:lol:

That game could end up being the lowest attended of any TFC game at BMO, period. And they had some pretty sorry turnouts for the NCC last year.

I called this whole trend after year one when they started jacking up the prices and telling people that the quality of the product was not the determinant factor in pricing, but rather it was simply a reflection of the local entertainment market.

When Tom Anselmi went on Prime Time Sports and laughed when Bob McCown called him out for charging full price to an exhibition game full of TFC reserves, I knew there was a terrible, terrible rot in this organization. They had clearly lost touch with their consumers; and they thought it was funny.

[rocker]

the team will sink into oblivion in the cold winds of March and April of 2012..

while I'm sympathetic to the general point you make, in my opinion TFC is going nowhere (if that's what you mean by oblivion). If Columbus can survive with extremely low attendances like 7000 the other night, so can TFC.

The difference will be that TFC will no longer be subsidizing bottom attendance teams, but will be subsidized by high attendance teams.
Revenue sharing will always keep teams alive.

[boban]

while I'm sympathetic to the general point you make, in my opinion TFC is going nowhere (if that's what you mean by oblivion). If Columbus can survive with extremely low attendances like 7000 the other night, so can TFC.

The difference will be that TFC will no longer be subsidizing bottom attendance teams, but will be subsidized by high attendance teams.
Revenue sharing will always keep teams alive.
true but talk of going into oblivion is a bit extreme. They make money at 14,000 and they will continue to do so. Even if things continue on the field and we see numbers drop, I don't see numbers going under 14,000 (unless of course due to extreme weather). There will always be games which draw better than others (ie. season opener, Whitecaps, Montreal - when they get in, NYRB, Galaxy, division rival). So the numbers will average to better than 16-17,000. Hardly losing money and a failure in any regard. If you love the game, you will continue to go even if the buzz has worn off. But winning will cure a lot and make things more enjoyable.

[tiberius]

while I'm sympathetic to the general point you make, in my opinion TFC is going nowhere (if that's what you mean by oblivion). If Columbus can survive with extremely low attendances like 7000 the other night, so can TFC.

The difference will be that TFC will no longer be subsidizing bottom attendance teams, but will be subsidized by high attendance teams.
Revenue sharing will always keep teams alive.

Agreed! The team will still be here, the supporters groups will be there (somewhat shrunken in numbers), but there will be the big empty chasm of BMO field and an overall disinterested fan base, at best. Supporters can't spread enthusiasm and support around BMO field, if the rest of the fan base does not show up.

It will also be very difficult to produce a good product on the field when your revenues dry up and you are subsidized by MLS revenue sharing...

In other words a lot of the joy will be sucked out of being a supporter or a more casual fan. Leaving BMO field feeling satisfied after a game will be a rare event...

[boban]

^^ You're so doom and gloom.
Columbus won with half full stadiums.

[ecospice]

i believe arabe uniodo was less than this


pookie don't tell them this, but lower prices means more seats sold...more seats sold results in more concession sales...i bet you with lower prices, season ticket holders would be more willing to buy more concessions!

This is true. Last night I had only one jumbo draft. It is the least money I have ever spent on beer at BMO and I have been to something like 90 percent of home games the past 5 years. No wonder it was such an un-enjoyable game...

[cmonyoureds]

Real indication of the times: Scalpers were offering 5 tickets for $40 on my way into the stadium...

I have a half season pack and since first season I bought from ticketmaster or direct at stadium for several other games per year.

This year those tickets are coming at pennies on the dollar from other sources.

With what I've seen from attendance I'm probably not renewing. Next year ALL my tickets will be pennies on the dollar unless I see a price decrease let alone a freeze.

In fact, Shoeless should send MLSE a thank you note, 'cause that's where my savings are going. :drinking:

[tiberius]

... I don't see numbers going under 14,000 (unless of course due to extreme weather). ... So the numbers will average to better than 16-17,000. Hardly losing money and a failure in any regard.

If you love the game, you will continue to go ...

Boban - I think you are suffering from "boiled frog" symdrome - what is happening around you is a slow process that will become increasingly apparent during STH renewal this fall and be dead obvious next year...

The "number" of distributed tickets this year will bounce around in the 14,000-18,000 this year - almost completely on the backs of the Season Ticket holders plus a few Travelzoo two-for-one deals.

The question is: Why would anyone renew their season tickets for next Year?

Answer 1 - I like my inexpensive tickets. rebuttal: I can currently buy tickets for 10% to 30% of face value (or get them for free) Supporter or prawn tickets - the price discount is the same... And I don't eat tickets for games I can't make...

Answer 2 - I don't want to lose my seating in the supporters section
rebuttal: see rebuttal above, plus even section 112 has been available on ticketmaster LOL - If Charlie Davies got tired of taunting the supporters section from the field, he could buy a ticket in sec 112 and wag his stupid ass in your face, up front and personal...


I will always support the team, and still go to lots and lots of games - I am just not going to be hosed into buying Season Tickets and nobody else is next year either. That will have a telling and long lasting effect on this soccer club...

[tiberius]

^^ You're so doom and gloom.
Columbus won with half full stadiums.

So... last night felt good to you? Better get used to it - I have heard this is a rebuilding year ... just sayin...:D

[boban]

Boban - I think you are suffering from "boiled frog" symdrome - what is happening around you is a slow process that will become increasingly apparent during STH renewal this fall and be dead obvious next year...


The "number" of distributed tickets this year will bounce around in the 14,000-18,000 this year
And yet last night was the 1st one under 18,000. We're doing over 20,000 attended this year.

almost completely on the backs of the Season Ticket holders plus a few Travelzoo two-for-one deals.
Don't know how this travelzoo works, more specifically who is supplying the tickets so can't really comment on it.

quote=tiberius;1278992]The question is: Why would anyone renew their season tickets for next Year?

Answer 1 - I like my inexpensive tickets. rebuttal: I can currently buy tickets for 10% to 30% of face value (or get them for free) Supporter or prawn tickets - the price discount is the same... And I don't eat tickets for games I can't make...

Answer 2 - I don't want to lose my seating in the supporters section
rebuttal: see rebuttal above, plus even section 112 has been available on ticketmaster LOL - If Charlie Davies got tired of taunting the supporters section from the field, he could buy a ticket in sec 112 and wag his stupid ass in your face, up front and personal...


I will always support the team, and still go to lots and lots of games - I am just not going to be hosed into buying Season Tickets and nobody else is next year either. That will have a telling and long lasting effect on this soccer club...
I am sure some people are going to do this but to seek out tickets for every game is a bit laborous. Especially if you currently have seasons in the lower 3 price brackets. Too much work to chase a ticket for $10-20 off. Give me supporter tickets in one shot and be done with it. The other option is walk up to the box office at game time.

[boban]

So... last night felt good to you? Better get used to it - I have heard this is a rebuilding year ... just sayin...:D
Not saying it felt good. But at some point things will get better is all I am saying. You make it sound like this ship we 're on has one direction with no steering wheel.

[tiberius]

Not saying it felt good. But at some point things will get better is all I am saying. You make it sound like this ship we 're on has one direction with no steering wheel.

Well since you said it - I guess I will agree with you on that one!

But if you think Tommy A. has a firm grip on the tiller, and knows where the hell he is leading this club, you have another thing coming... He is in some dreamland (similar to you) that the product on the field is going to somehow improve so much this year that it will rescue his butt from a fall STH renewal disaster. Everyone stick up their hands if they think there will be more Season ticket holders in 2012... yeah, I thought so...

Many people renewed this year out of fear of losing STH seats and never being able to get them back, and thought they would give it one more year. Another whack of fans sitting on the waiting list unknowingly bought in, thinking their tickets had value and that the product on the field was going to be OK. These new season ticket holders will come to the same conclusion as old season ticket holders - the taste of cardboard in your mouth from eating a lot of tickets really sucks. When renewal time comes around, almost everyone will put 2 and 2 together and get 4 - no need or no money to renew.

There is no waiting list at all this season, nothing to stem the tide of non-renewals - why even renew in September 2011 and have ML$E suck all of your money away before Christmas, when you can pay and become a Season Ticket holder in March of 2012, if things are looking a little better?

[nfitz]

That's the question of the day isn't it? How do we know that they have over 16,000 season tickets sold?We know that there was a complete lack of available Season Tickets and Partial Packs in yellow, light-grey, medium-grey, club - and slim pickings for season tickets in dark-grey.

I suppose it's possible that the club has been lying through their teeths for year after year about how many season tickets they've sold - but it's hard to imagine that there are less seasons tickets than previous years, given how little availability there is on those section.

I'm not saying they are sold out - clearly that's not the case.

[tfc007]

No need to wait for better pricing - it is here now - after getting hosed by 4 years of season tickets - I am free! Ticket are 10-20 cents on the dollar! I bet half the "casual fans" there last night were there with freebies or a deep discount ticket - travelzoo anyone? Very cheap tickets is the only reason there were as many fans as there were last night...:hump:

The only problem with this great pricing is that Toronto FC is doing this on the backs of their season ticket holder base. The iceburg lurking under the surface is that the number of season ticket holders who will renew this fall is somewhere between... slim and none -

That is when BMO field will be empty - nobody is going to pay MLSE/Toronto FC pricing next year - A "paid" attendence of 16K last night tells you what shape their season ticket holder base is in - steep, steep decline, given they exhausted a waiting list of at least 15 thousand fans?

Reducing ticket prices by 25% won't save us... We are on the Titanic with this team, we will hit the iceburg during STH renewal in September and the team will sink into oblivion in the cold winds of March and April of 2012...:picard: We are the band that will be playing as the Toronto FC ship sinks into a cold watery grave...

Anybody got any ideas? I hate cold salt water... :drinking:
I Teach Scuba Diving !

[tiberius]

I am sure some people are going to do this but to seek out tickets for every game is a bit laborous. Especially if you currently have seasons in the lower 3 price brackets. Too much work to chase a ticket for $10-20 off. Give me supporter tickets in one shot and be done with it. The other option is walk up to the box office at game time.

Boban - you are right - there is a convenience factor that I did not address. With supporter tickets you are absolutely correct - most will renew and the odd ticket eaten is no big deal. Like many, I bring children and guests to the game where standing is just not an option - that is where the price issue hits home - hard.

My concern is with the rest of BMO - the prices in every area is jacked sky high - from light grey, to blue, to club seats. None of these seats are going for $10 off... it is more like $10 for the ticket - when you pay $35-$45 for a ticket and can barely get $10 back, convenience is no longer the issue... it is simple economics.

Pride is the other factor here - no one wants to be treated, or appear to be treated like idiot scum - and that is exactly how MLSE and Toronto FC FO have and are treating the fans, for five years running... the only semi-reasonable ticket price at BMO field is the supporters section at the southend - and many are questioning the economics of that...

[tiberius]

We know that there was a complete lack of available Season Tickets and Partial Packs in yellow, light-grey, medium-grey, club - and slim pickings for season tickets in dark-grey.


?? nfitz's statement is totally incorrect - light grey and medium grey were available for both seasons and partial packs.:scarf:

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm afraid that the price freeze in place will all but ensure dwindling attendance in the immediate future, because the current pricing structure has already alienated a portion of the fan base. Considering that the club is in rebuilding mode, it will only get worse.

The only salvation for this franchise moving forward will be to eventually scale back pricing to 2007 levels throughout the the stadium. If the team also becomes competitive within a couple of years, I believe the average attendance figures will once again be at full capacity, and the atmosphere that was once the envy of the league will return.

[nfitz]

?? nfitz's statement is totally incorrect - light grey and medium grey were available for both seasons and partial packs.:scarf:At the end of season ticket sales and Partial sales ... no, none were left. When you checked in Ticketmaster at the end of sales, the best there was, was Light Blue. The Feb 25th Partial pack price list from TFC also shows this - http://www.goltv.ca/assets/1/AssetManager/TFCPricing&Seating1.pdf

[Azerban]

the only way to effect real, lasting change is to target customers in the club seats, tables and boxes and inform them of the error of MLSEs ways, if not convince them to drop their tickets; mlse literally does not care about your single in 112, it's a rounding error to them



the pen is mightier than the flare

[YYZ_Fan]

I was able to sell my pair of seasons in Sec 110 Row 27 for $60 on Craigs on Thursday, and then walk up and buy a pair in Sec 125 Row 9 for $20 from scalpers at 6:50pm. I was his first customer of the day. Great view of the field...but not worth the $67 sticker price on the ticket.
That's my plan the rest of the season when the weather looks crap more than a few days in advance.

[Detroit_TFC]

Why the FO priced the North stand seats at premium completely baffles me. Unless of course, they are just passing on the cost of construction on to the section. In that case, that's just penny wise and dollar foolish. If those seats were priced say at light grey level, that would be more reasonable both in terms of the actual view and also a relatively inexpensive seat to market to new attendees.

[tiberius]

At the end of season ticket sales and Partial sales ... no, none were left. When you checked in Ticketmaster at the end of sales, the best there was, was Light Blue. The Feb 25th Partial pack price list from TFC also shows this - http://www.goltv.ca/assets/1/AssetManager/TFCPricing&Seating1.pdf

You are actually proving my point - light grey and medium grey, and some yellow have been available all winter, almost all the way up to season kick off, if you wanted them.

[TFC John]

Economists say there are 4 factors in any major purchase. Each factor must be satisfied in order before someone is willing to buy the goods our services on offer. By satisfied they do not mean complete satisfaction. They mean satisfied to a minimum acceptable level. Companies compete heavily on the level of satisfaction they provide for each factor. By increasing or decreasing the amount of satisfaction they offer for each factor they they differentiate their product and appeal to different customers. For instance, some people are only satisfied by a BMW while others are perfectly happy driving a Kia. That just shows a difference in levels of satisfaction required.

The 4 factors:
1. Function - the item must fulfill the need it is being purchased for
2. Reliability - the item must be of sufficient quality to continue operating for the expected life of the purchase
3. Convenience - the product must be easy to obtain and to use
4. Price - the product must be within the purchasing power of the customer and give sufficient value for money

Looking at these factors in the light of TFC tickets, there are several observations that come out.

Function - what is the function of these tickets? I would say the function is to provide entertainment. Some people will only be sufficiently entertained if the team wins more than a certain percentage of games. If the winning percentage drops below that level, those people will not buy tickets. Other people will only be satisfied if there is a certain "quality" of play is displayed. These people might accept losing if they think the team lost with style. Still others will be satisfied if the game day experience is sufficiently entertaining. They will continue to buy tickets as long as they enjoy the singing monkeys in the south end (I think that is what has propped up ticket sales for the last 4 years). In reality it is a combination of all of these criteria that determines someone's satisfaction with the function of the tickets.
Reliability - on a game in, game out basis how much can a customer count on the tickets to provide the level of function that is acceptable? If the tickets fulfill the satisfaction requirements of the function but only do so sporadically then each customer will determine the level of reliability he/she will accept.
Convenience - the tickets must be easy enough to obtain to make it worth the customer's while. That is the logic behind a season ticket. It makes obtaining tickets more convenient. The ticket exchange also appeals to the convenience factor by giving ticket owners more flexibility in what they can do with their tickets. How many people who wanted to buy tickets over the last few years failed to do so because it was "too hard"? Now that it is relatively easy to buy tickets people are questioning the sense of buying them as season tickets.
Price - because this is the easiest factor to quantify, many people think it is the only factor in making a purchasing decision. In fact it is the last consideration. For example, most people would never buy a tail rotor for a helicopter because it does not fulfill a need (function). Even if it is the best tail rotor available and they will deliver it right to your house and they will give it to you for half price you are unlikely to buy it. We regularly pass up great prices on items we don't want. Price is not the most important factor. It is just the easiest to measure and compare.

So what does all of this mean? It means all customers are different in the minimum satisfaction level they will accept for each factor but they all must reach that level for each factor in order to decide to buy. All of the people making predictions in this thread of what TFC customers will or will not do need to examine how well the club meets people's expectations in each of these factors. Remember, to get a sale the club does not have to give you what you want. They only have to give you what you will accept. So far they have shown that they are very good at giving us more hope than results.

[nfitz]

You are actually proving my point - light grey and medium grey, and some yellow have been available all winter, almost all the way up to season kick off, if you wanted them.Your point was that my statement (that there was a complete lack of available Season Tickets and Partial Packs in yellow, light-grey, medium-grey, club) was totally incorrect. Your goalposts are moving ... and light-grey and medium-grey sold out over a month before kick-off ... a month before winter was over.

[boban]

Why the FO priced the North stand seats at premium completely baffles me. Unless of course, they are just passing on the cost of construction on to the section. In that case, that's just penny wise and dollar foolish. If those seats were priced say at light grey level, that would be more reasonable both in terms of the actual view and also a relatively inexpensive seat to market to new attendees.
Their ROI is 36 months. The have their numbers and they needed to know what numbers comes out to get the money back in 36 months. That numbers was $50.
Other organizations look at the price and then calculate how long will it take to pay off. Not MLSE. What price pays it off in 36 months.

[tiberius]

Economists ... Kia... 4 factors ....satisfaction... sufficient value for money... the team lost with style... singing monkeys...
So what does all of this mean?

Holy Shit John... my mind is fuckin blown!!!:picard:



Convenience - the tickets must be easy enough to obtain to make it worth the customer's while.

OK - I got it - I can get tickets from scalpers @ 20% of face value, right before any game... thats OK?? Am I right?


So far they have shown that they are very good at giving us more hope than results.

So, OK, it is OK if I don't buy Season tickets next year and buy them for 20% of list instead? That is OK, right?

Man I'm glad I figured that post out - sorry professor, but not everyone has a PHD in ML$E customer psychology! Damn fine post! Thanks professor!:D

[menefreghista]

The stadium attendance is 21,800

The official attendance for the Galaxy game was about 22,453. So for now on I would consider that max capacity at BMO Field.

It is interesting that TFC managed to have a record high and record low MLS regular season attendance in the same week. Its still early but that's pretty good evidence that the Galaxy game is going to be a big anomaly this season.

[ManUtd4ever]

The official attendance for the Galaxy game was about 22,453. So for now on I would consider that max capacity at BMO Field.

It is interesting that TFC managed to have a record high and record low MLS regular season attendance in the same week. Its still early but that's pretty good evidence that the Galaxy game is going to be a big anomaly this season.

It was absolutely an anomaly. The average attendance will be 17,000-18,000 if TFC plays reasonably well at home. If not, it's going to get ugly. Paid attendance might keep Paul B. happy, but recent history suggests that paid attendance does not necessarily translate to actual attendance. My section is predominantly occupied by STH's and it was half empty on Saturday. There were none of the usual chants going in 119 because none of the regulars were there. Some people would rather lose money (if they can't get rid of their tickets) as opposed to watching a piss poor product first hand. That's a sad indictment of the currrent state of affairs.

[menefreghista]

People who stop attending games and can't get rid of their extras will turn into non-renewers.

I had a good laugh during the Galaxy game when they had an ad for 'a new block of tickets available for the DC United game'.

[Pookie]

TFC John, it was a nice read and you bring a number of variables into play. I'd disagree with the concept of price being unimportant relative to the others. Many economists (and sales experts) would contend that price is a major factor in a purchase decision.

If we simplify this a little bit, why would someone want to own season tickets?

Typically, they:

a) want to see all/or the majority of the games
b) may have a preferable section/sightline for viewing matches
c) want to save money by buying in bulk vs per use

Why would the FO want to sell season tickets?

a) Guaranteed revenue
b) creates ticket scarcity thereby increasing the value of a single game/use sale
c) if scarcity is significant they can leverage other brands (ie. all season sports packs)
d) ensures a physical market presence for concession/parking and merchandise revenue

Going back to the season ticket holder, our needs are not being fulfilled as well as they could be by the current ticket scheme. We want to see all the games but we will have to pay additional funds to see CCL and (marked up) playoff games, if we qualify.

The FO is falling short as well. They have not created scarcity. They have not maximized attendance for concessions and they have lost the ability to leverage their other brands.

The Solution (?)

1. Freeze ticket prices where they are and stop playing the game of removing games from packages as a savings. It isn't a savings if your market will end up buying them from you at a later date. We might drink a lot of beer but we aren't dumbasses.

2. Recognize that the extortion practice known as "Premium" games is a farce but this farce builds additional margin into your product that you can use. ($10 premium x 6 games = $60 per ticket). Use this margin to grow the big picture. See below.

3. For the same price we are paying now, include EVERY bonus game, from friendlies to playoffs. Make this part of the value of owning a season ticket.

ALL FOR ONE right? ALL games for ONE price. Simple.

You are talking about 2 -5 additional dates, that may or may not materialize, included in the season ticket package. It is not a major risk to the FO and at least one of those games was covered by the Premium game extortion.

Doing the above would create value in owning the ticket and allow the STH to attend every game from the same seat and the lowest possible cost.

It would enable the FO to rebuild the value associated with a TFC season ticket, creating scarcity that could be leveraged for higher single game ticket prices for the casual fan and/or the introduction of Raptor/TFC packs and the like. It would maximize their potential for concessions, parking and merchandise and most importantly would be a HUGE step towards improving the culture around our relationship with them.

[redcard]

People who stop attending games and can't get rid of their extras will turn into non-renewers.

I had a good laugh during the Galaxy game when they had an ad for 'a new block of tickets available for the DC United game'.


lets not forgot...it was dc united and the weather was pretty shit...along with a 'rebuilding team' no dero no star power there were more reasons to miss this match for everyone...i predict low attendance for columbus as well because again no star power, and rain!!...doesnt mean the foundation is crumbling...

[ManUtd4ever]

TFC John, it was a nice read and you bring a number of variables into play. I'd disagree with the concept of price being unimportant relative to the others. Many economists (and sales experts) would contend that price is a major factor in a purchase decision.

If we simplify this a little bit, why would someone want to own season tickets?

Typically, they:

a) want to see all/or the majority of the games
b) may have a preferable section/sightline for viewing matches
c) want to save money by buying in bulk vs per use

Why would the FO want to sell season tickets?

a) Guaranteed revenue
b) creates ticket scarcity thereby increasing the value of a single game/use sale
c) if scarcity is significant they can leverage other brands (ie. all season sports packs)
d) ensures a physical market presence for concession/parking and merchandise revenue

Going back to the season ticket holder, our needs are not being fulfilled as well as they could be by the current ticket scheme. We want to see all the games but we will have to pay additional funds to see CCL and (marked up) playoff games, if we qualify.

The FO is falling short as well. They have not created scarcity. They have not maximized attendance for concessions and they have lost the ability to leverage their other brands.

So, what's my solution?

1. Freeze ticket prices where they are and stop playing the game of removing games from packages as a savings. It isn't a savings if your market will end up buying them from you at a later date.

2. Recognize that the extortion practice known as "Premium" games is a farce but this farce builds additional margin into your product that you can use. ($10 premium x 6 games = $60 per ticket). Use this margin to grow the big picture. See below.

3. For the same price we are paying now, include EVERY bonus game, from friendlies to playoffs. Make this part of the value of owning a season ticket. You are talking about 2 -5 additional dates, that may or may not materialize, included in the season ticket package.


Doing the above would create value in owning the ticket and allow the STH to attend every game from the same seat and the lowest possible cost.

It would enable the FO to rebuild the value associated with a TFC season ticket, creating scarcity that could be leveraged for higher single game ticket prices for the casual fan and/or the introduction of Raptor/TFC packs and the like. It would maximize their potential for concessions, parking and merchandise and most importantly would be a HUGE step towards improving the culture around our relationship with them.

The current price freeze is an insufficient measure, given the product on the pitch and our pricing structure relative to other markets. How can MLSE include playoff games when that's far from a certainty at this point? The only long term solution in my opinion is to offer discount pricing throughout the stadium in the $20-$50 range.

I agree with your general sentiments, but MLSE has to wake up and do some serious damage control if they want to recapture any semblence of what used to be the best atmosphere in the league. It's so sad that in year 5, we could already refer to the initial atmosphere at BMO as the 'good old days'.

[mastermixer]

The perfect storm of bullshit that has wrecked havoc on this team since day one has caused this major loss of interest. Bad management from top to bottom. Terrible coaches, terrible players, poor promotion, terrible ticket prices... it goes on and on.
And then they try to doop us with those slick promotional specials on GolTv showing the future of TFC and how exciting it will be.
I'd like to see a slick promotional video of the management behind the scenes and see what geniuses these guys are.

[Pookie]

The current price freeze is an insufficient measure, given the product on the pitch and our pricing structure relative to other markets. How can MLSE include playoff games when that's far a certainty at this point? The only long term solution in my opinion is to offer discount pricing throughout the stadium in the $20-$50 range.

I agree with your general sentiments, but MLSE has to wake up and do some serious damage control if they want to recapture any semblence of what used to be the best atmosphere in the league. It's so sad that in year 5, we could already refer to the initial atmosphere at BMO as the 'good old days'.

I agree 100%. A per game price drop is needed.

My suggestion of a price freeze was to be practical. The MLS is a revenue share league and ticket prices in LA, Toronto and Seattle have been subsidizing the rest of the league.

With the popularity of Vancouver, Portland and Philly, I see Toronto's prices being set in the mix of these "Big 6" and there would likely be some league resistance to lowering the prices beyond that.

That said, I do think that pricing itself is out of whack but it is even more of a gouge when you consider the extra we will pay for CCL and their current practice of marking up MLS playoff games. This suggestion would lower our overall cost on an annual basis. So, in essence a price drop.

[ensco]

What, me worry?

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110418/toronto-fc-turnout-110418/20110418?hub=TorontoNewHome

I love how, unattributed, so that nobody owns this whopper.... "they actually sold 20,000 tickets"!!!

(They must actually be worried to have put this out there.)

[nfitz]

That's about what would be expected Must be over 18,000, pushing 19,000 just with seasons, partials, and flex packs.

Not sure why there there is this instant conspiracy theoriest jump to attack something just because MLSE says it ...

[ensco]

That's about what would be expected Must be over 18,000, pushing 19,000 just with seasons, partials, and flex packs.

Not sure why there there is this instant conspiracy theoriest jump to attack something just because MLSE says it ...

No. They've clearly been reporting total ticket sales, not fannies in the seats, all the way along. Suddenly the writer asserts that they're reporting fannies. That's a ridiculous thing to say, lazy and inexcusable. Whether MLSE is behind that or not, is not knowable, but I have my suspicions.

[nfitz]

No. They've clearly been reporting total ticket sales, not fannies in the seats, all the way along. Suddenly the writer asserts that they're reporting fannies. That's a ridiculous thing to say, lazy and inexcusable. Whether MLSE is behind that or not, is not knowable, but I have my suspicions.Whether or not they've always reported correctly, I don't know.

But it was pretty clear in the stadium that it was about 16,000 +/- 1,000. And the number quoted is within 1,000 or a reasonable guess of number of tickets sold. The numbers reported in the last week all seem to add up.

I don't see the need for the donning of tin hats.

[Blowing Bubbles]

In Philly they clearly state over the PA "the number of tickets SOLD for todays game = xxxx". I thought the whole league was based on tickets distributed, not ppl in the seats, but who knows.

[Pookie]

No. They've clearly been reporting total ticket sales, not fannies in the seats, all the way along. Suddenly the writer asserts that they're reporting fannies. That's a ridiculous thing to say, lazy and inexcusable. Whether MLSE is behind that or not, is not knowable, but I have my suspicions.

This is my point as well.

If indeed it is fannies in the seats and nearly 19,000 actually showed up as reported for last year's game during the G20, why give out the free tickets to those that couldn't make it?

This article seems to attempt to validate the notion of scarcity. Something that benefits the FO. I see the hook and the line. Watch out for the sinker

[Pookie]

^ just to add to the BS/Conspiracy angle, consider these quotes from a few years back:

"MLS claims it is among the latter, using the “industry standard” of tickets distributed for official attendance figures."

"MLS President Mark Abbott confirmed the league tracks paid and complimentary tickets..."

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/sports/soccer/20060927-9999-lz1s27goal.html

I'd bet that there are some eyebrows being raised at the TFC front office and 16,313 was in fact the number of tickets that were distributed.

[Fort York Redcoat]

Are we dreaming about a price drop midseason or are you discussing next seasons tickets already?

[Pookie]

That article about 20,000 actually sold and them reporting fannies in seats really bugs me. It just doesn't add up.

Consider this account of last year's June 26th game vs LA played during the G20.

TORONTO (AP)—Toronto FC (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mls/teams/tor/) and the Los Angeles Galaxy (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mls/teams/los/) played a scoreless draw Saturday night amid nearby G20 Summit protests that prevented several thousand fans from attending the game at BMO Field.

Subway shutdowns, altered bus routes and the uncertainty over road closures contributed to the smaller-than-usual crowd. The attendance was announced at 18,809, though it didn’t reflect the actual number of fans in the stands...


... Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment said it will offer absent ticket holders the chance to attend another game this season.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mls/recap?gid=2010062622 (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mls/recap?gid=2010062622)

Which prompted this action from the Club:

Due to disruptions caused by the G20 in Toronto, Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment (MLSE) and Toronto FC will be offering ticket holders who were unable to attend the June 26 match vs. Los Angeles Galaxy at BMO Field an opportunity to attend another Toronto FC match this season (game subject to availability).

“We made a decision to hold this game based on the security information we were receiving and given the location of BMO Field,” said Bob Hunter, MLSE executive vice president of venues & entertainment. “With the Galaxy and officials all in the city, there was never any thought given to cancelling the game, but due to unforeseen circumstances that had a major impact on the City of Toronto and forced many to stay home, we felt it was important to make this gesture to our fans who were adversely affected by events today.”

All ticket holders who were unable to attend Saturday’s match should expect communication from the Club

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/06/toronto-fc-g20-notice (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2010/06/toronto-fc-g20-notice)

Since when does our FO give away free tickets if the actual number of fannies in seats is close to 19,000?

And the key phrase from all of that? Announced attendance was higher than those that were actually there.

So, in June, TFC appears to be reporting tickets distributed. In April of this year, apparently they are reporting fannies in seats??

C'mon.

[Pachuco]

^ just to add to the BS/Conspiracy angle, consider these quotes from a few years back:

"MLS claims it is among the latter, using the “industry standard” of tickets distributed for official attendance figures."

"MLS President Mark Abbott confirmed the league tracks paid and complimentary tickets..."

http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/sports/soccer/20060927-9999-lz1s27goal.html

I'd bet that there are some eyebrows being raised at the TFC front office and 16,313 was in fact the number of tickets that were distributed.

Neither number adds up. How is 16,000 the number of tickets distributed when they allegedly sold 17,000 seasons for this season?

One thing that really does bug me is how they try and chalk it up as an anomaly. And they use the Beckham game as proof that this is an anomanly. Are you kidding me? the Beckham game is the anomally you idiots and anyone can see that. When your home opener doesn't sell out, you know you have problems.

[mastermixer]

Sounds like Mr Beirne still doesn't get it.


@edmundrojas love how #tfc (http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23tfc) has massive announcements 4 a training facility, not a player, not a signing, so how much r season tickets gonna b next yr?



Paulbeirne @edmundrojas (http://twitter.com/edmundrojas) we are freezing Season Tix prices for 2012. Should we do a presser for that?

[lobo]

Whether or not they've always reported correctly, I don't know.

But it was pretty clear in the stadium that it was about 16,000 +/- 1,000. And the number quoted is within 1,000 or a reasonable guess of number of tickets sold. The numbers reported in the last week all seem to add up.

so you're saying you saw 75% of the seats filled? i think you are being very very generous ... the east, west and north stands were half empty, and that is still a very liberal estimate, it was probably less than half in truth ... it was ridiculous how empty some sections were, just a scattering of people

in any case, those thousands of people who stayed away were the smart ones that night ... 112/113/127 was the only thing made it worthwile

[Suds]

so you're saying you saw 75% of the seats filled? i think you are being very very generous ... the east, west and north stands were half empty, and that is still a very liberal estimate, it was probably less than half in truth ... it was ridiculous how empty some sections were, just a scattering of people

in any case, those thousands of people who stayed away were the smart ones that night ... 112/113/127 was the only thing made it worthwile

Yeah, not even half full. I have a photo from well into the game. There are definitely more empty seats than one's being used in the east stand. Hell, the south end looked a 1/3 empty.

[Pookie]

Neither number adds up. How is 16,000 the number of tickets distributed when they allegedly sold 17,000 seasons for this season?

... and in previous seasons, the cap on season ticket sales was reported to be 16,000. So, in the year following the protests and folks could still buy seasons after the Gold and Red lists had their pick, they actually grew their season ticket base by 1,000???

My guess is that the actual number of season tickets sold is in the 14,000 range. Comps, partial packs and single game sales make up the rest of their attendance base.

I'd be surprised if there really was a wait list at this point.

[Beach_Red]

... and in previous seasons, the cap on season ticket sales was reported to be 16,000. So, in the year following the protests and folks could still buy seasons after the Gold and Red lists had their pick, they actually grew their season ticket base by 1,000???

My guess is that the actual number of season tickets sold is in the 14,000 range. Comps, partial packs and single game sales make up the rest of their attendance base.

I'd be surprised if there really was a wait list at this point.

There's no doubt that TFC is no longer the hot ticket it was a couple years ago. Most of the season ticket holders who sat around me couldn't make it to some games during the summer but the seats were always used. By the mid-point of last season if the season ticket holder wasn't at the game the seats remained empty. Many of the people around me didn't renew.

But is anyone worried? This has never been an organization that needs to max out revenue with any of its teams - they haven't made a cent off possible playoff games in years and they don't seem to mind - sure they change coaches and GMs but the upper management and business side doesn't seem worried. So why would they be worried about not selling out the stadium, as long as they are still in profit (which they probably are at a lot fewer than 16k tickets sold)?

[kaos197O]

... and in previous seasons, the cap on season ticket sales was reported to be 16,000. So, in the year following the protests and folks could still buy seasons after the Gold and Red lists had their pick, they actually grew their season ticket base by 1,000???

My guess is that the actual number of season tickets sold is in the 14,000 range. Comps, partial packs and single game sales make up the rest of their attendance base.

I'd be surprised if there really was a wait list at this point.

Furthering some of your earlier points, how can MLSE say that the are not worried?

Let's use their example of 20000 sold with 16000 attending. The fact that 4000 people or 20% of the ticket buyers chose to eat their tickets as opposed to come down and support the team, has to be of concern. The fact that these people came to the conclusion that their $$$$$ was better spent staying home speaks volumes about the state of the fanbase. How can they notbe worried. Then they use the LA example. The weather was not any better for that game, it was on a weeknight, started at 8pm, yet sold out and was packed. WHY? Fans found that there was value in seeing the opposition, not TFC. That is no worrisome? Their excuses of weather and all else are pure crap. Reality is that if people thought they would get their $$$$$ worth, they would be there through thick or thin.

If MLSE is truly not worried then we should be. It would further indicate that they believe that nothing is wrong, that they are in the right track, that they are succeeding in keeping us happy. I think Dero said it best with one of his quotes

"It's ALL Smoke and Mirrors"

[Beach_Red]

^ This is a middle-of-the-pack organization. They will worry if they are at the very bottom, but they don't need to be at the very top to be satisfied.

[Fort York Redcoat]

But is anyone worried? This has never been an organization that needs to max out revenue with any of its teams - they haven't made a cent off possible playoff games in years and they don't seem to mind - sure they change coaches and GMs but the upper management and business side doesn't seem worried. So why would they be worried about not selling out the stadium, as long as they are still in profit (which they probably are at a lot fewer than 16k tickets sold)?

This sums it up for me stupendously, BR. I can't concern myself with how a big bad company fudges numbers so someone can feel like they are at a really, really, really popular event (that must be why the announce attendance, right? Bit of a wankfest if you ask me.) I guess it's interesting to some to keep up with everything to do with the club but most seem to want to harp on it to further chastise an organization.

[nfitz]

so you're saying you saw 75% of the seats filled?I thought it was about 70% ... which would be about 16,000. It seemed packed under the north stands, at least for the first half.


in any case, those thousands of people who stayed away were the smart ones that nightWhy? The weather was fine - not a drop of rain, winds weren't high; and it even warmed up a bit during the game. Can't see a reason to stay away.

[lobo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lobo http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1280176#post1280176)
in any case, those thousands of people who stayed away were the smart ones that nightWhy? The weather was fine - not a drop of rain, winds weren't high; and it even warmed up a bit during the game. Can't see a reason to stay away.

it was a hindsight statement, meaning they missed a fugly effort by our team on the field .. lucky for them

[habstfc]

I thought it was about 70% ... which would be about 16,000. It seemed packed under the north stands, at least for the first half.

Why? The weather was fine - not a drop of rain, winds weren't high; and it even warmed up a bit during the game. Can't see a reason to stay away.

The threat of rain or the belief of rain is enough.

Why does everyone have a hissy fit if there aren't 22,000 people game, in game out? This team generates more revenue than every team with the exception of seattle.

[Pookie]

^ some call it a hissy fit, others might call it a declining trend.

[Fort York Redcoat]

^ some call it a hissy fit, others might call it a declining trend.

That makes no sense.

-I lost my keys. I'm really worried. I'm having a "declining trend".

:D

[Beach_Red]

^ some call it a hissy fit, others might call it a declining trend.


Aren't they calling it a "market correction" these days?

[ensco]

As to why this matters.....

MLSE executives have made repeated public statements that pricing is set by supply and demand, I find it interesting, as an SSH, to examine supply and demand in detail, especially when MLSE alone control the data, and use public relations techniques to manipulate perception around that data.

[Roogsy]

As to why this matters.....

MLSE executives have made repeated public statements that pricing is set by supply and demand, I find it interesting, as an SSH, to examine supply and demand in detail, especially when MLSE alone control the data, and use public relations techniques to manipulate perception around that data.


This...

[mastermixer]

As to why this matters.....

MLSE executives have made repeated public statements that pricing is set by supply and demand, I find it interesting, as an SSH, to examine supply and demand in detail, especially when MLSE alone control the data, and use public relations techniques to manipulate perception around that data.
Yup. Makes them sound like some evil corporation doesnt it?

MLSE puts themself in this position by having fancy press conferences about how great they are for changing the future of soccer in Canada.
Well guess what? The future of Canadian soccer should have changed 5 years ago, but they were too busy counting there money and trying to figure out how many extra seats they can squeeze into the stadium before they realized they actually need to improve the product.

[Fort York Redcoat]

As to why this matters.....

MLSE executives have made repeated public statements that pricing is set by supply and demand, I find it interesting, as an SSH, to examine supply and demand in detail, especially when MLSE alone control the data, and use public relations techniques to manipulate perception around that data.

I'm not saying that watchdogs aren't necessary but as one that gets to every game it's meaningless to me to hear how many joined in.

[DangerRed]

I'm not saying that watchdogs aren't necessary but as one that gets to every game it's meaningless to me to hear how many joined in.

You're missing the point. Their claims about attendance are used directly to influence future pricing. If they keep saying it's a sellout or near a sellout, then Tom can go out and say that prices of tickets reflect market demand, when that's not exactly accurate. As someone who gets to every game, that should be meaningful to you, unless you simply don't care about prices and will continue buying no matter what they charge.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I'm not missing anything. I'm there at the game when they announce bullshit. I'm there at the town hall to say its bullshit.

but continue. There are enough of you in here that want to count how much bullshit there is. I'll move on.

[ExiledRed]

As to why this matters.....

MLSE executives have made repeated public statements that pricing is set by supply and demand, I find it interesting, as an SSH, to examine supply and demand in detail, especially when MLSE alone control the data, and use public relations techniques to manipulate perception around that data.

Just thought I'd bring this to the current page, given that it got diluted by irrelevance.

[tiberius]

As to why this matters.....

MLSE executives have made repeated public statements that pricing is set by supply and demand, I find it interesting, as an SSH, to examine supply and demand in detail, especially when MLSE alone control the data, and use public relations techniques to manipulate perception around that data.

Toronto FC/MLSE can lie and bullshit all they want this year - anybody who goes to a game, or who hold season tickets KNOWS that attendence is in the dumpster and tickets can be had for cents on the dollar... With no waiting list, the grim reaper will show up at season renewal this year - Anselmi and the spin doctors won't be able to stop the Season Ticket hemorrhage. They can lie all they want - we can all rest easy that they will get what is coming to them this fall - supply and demand will prevail! :hump:

[redkopflyer]

Your "premium game" BS needs to end. Price gouging in LA, Seattle and Toronto to subsidize the lower drawing clubs in this revenue sharing league is not healthy over the long term.[/quote]


Trying telling a scouser that he has to pay premiums to see Everton or Man United...riots anyone??!

[Roogsy]

I don't understand why DC United was a "premium" game this year. Makes you wonder how exactly they go about deciding which games are and are not "premium". I mean, I don't think anyone can really deny the reasons behind LA or NY as having that classification (even if the whole idea of pricing one game higher than the other I think is silly, at least have some valid reasons behind it) but DC? :noidea:

[Red Rat]

I never got this shit about "Premium Game" it is pure BS