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Oldtimer
04-16-2011, 08:01 PM
what can you say?

fdasilva
04-16-2011, 08:02 PM
Nothing much to say. Players didn't show up, fatigue was evident, still adapting to the system, some players shouldn't be starting regularly for this team. Live and learn.

swan
04-16-2011, 08:04 PM
garbage...

ginkster88
04-16-2011, 08:05 PM
To think I was looking forward to this since Wednesday...

CBTFC
04-16-2011, 08:05 PM
some players shouldn't be starting regularly for this team..

As I've mentioned in another thread, completely blows my mind how Peterson and Harden are starting with the roster that we have.

lobo
04-16-2011, 08:06 PM
fugly

ensco
04-16-2011, 08:06 PM
Time to inaugurate a new pre-game ritual: the unused ticket bonfire.

Because you won't be able to give tickets away to games you can't make it to.

Alixir
04-16-2011, 08:06 PM
....../end rant.

ExiledRed
04-16-2011, 08:10 PM
I let my friends go to this....I feel bad now

Beach_Red
04-16-2011, 08:10 PM
Well, the league is getting better, that's something. This season there have been a few very good games. We haven't been in them, but the overall quality of the league is improving. So, someday...

lobo
04-16-2011, 08:12 PM
As I've mentioned in another thread, completely blows my mind how Peterson and Harden are starting with the roster that we have.

well, don't have to worry about harden starting next game

and peterson should never play fullback again, never i say ... concerned that winter says differently

Heathen
04-16-2011, 08:13 PM
I let my friends go to this....I feel bad now

don't worry they're not your friends any more

twistedchinaman
04-16-2011, 08:14 PM
There better be some damned improvement soon...fingers crossed.

Redcoe15
04-16-2011, 08:16 PM
I actually turned to the Shitecraps-Chivas match after the third goal, it was that bad. :prrr:

Oor Wullie
04-16-2011, 08:16 PM
What was the announced attendance?

TheWolf
04-16-2011, 08:17 PM
This has nothing to do with the horrible game but it makes me rage even more with jealousy. What a great opener Portland had.....

YglToAeDV7s&feature=feedu

ExiledRed
04-16-2011, 08:17 PM
Personally I think Winter has spent so much time and energy educating the league on attractive, posession based, 4-3-3 football, that he hasnt noticed the other teams are just finding ways to break it, with not much effort.

Id prefer Winter keep his strategies and plans under wraps, instead of making his tactical plan something for color commentators to talk about.

However if you take awy all the hype about building a system and culture, total football, academy development etc....

well if you take away that, all you have left is clumsy, toothless football and another set of unhappy players stinking up the pitch, and no real excuses for it.

s2cazz
04-16-2011, 08:21 PM
This has nothing to do with the horrible game but it makes me rage even more with jealousy. What a great opener Portland had.....

YglToAeDV7s&feature=feedu

Can we stop blowing the timber army by posting that fucking tifo repeatedly?

Kc17
04-16-2011, 08:22 PM
I know people are preaching patience with this team, but its a little hard to be patient when the team has seemingly regressed in every game this season.

We've played two expansion teams, one of the worst teams in the league (Chivas), San Jose, LAG, and the worst team in MLS last season, and have managed 6 points. Add to that the fact that we've had 4 home games, and a game away in a place we usually have success, and its not very easy to be optimistic about this team.

But, we're rebuilding right? Okay, well some of our better young players (Frei, Stevanovic, Martina, Plata in particular) likely wont be with this team a season or two from now. The time is now if you want to make the playoffs in MLS. The crowds are going to keep dwindling, and by seasons end it wouldn't surprise me if we start talking about the "old days at BMO".

This is the most important season in the franchises history, anything less than a competitive team is a major failure. Good luck to MLSE selling a rebuild to Toronto fans, who have been watching all their major sports teams rebuild for the last 3 years.

s2cazz
04-16-2011, 08:22 PM
Brings a tear to my eye...

EDIT: Removed screenshots from MY FUCKING TV that EVERYONE who watched the game on TV saw
UNDER PROTEST

ginkster88
04-16-2011, 08:23 PM
This has nothing to do with the horrible game but it makes me rage even more with jealousy. What a great opener Portland had.....

YglToAeDV7s&feature=feedu

Doing.
It.
Right.

This has everything to do with the FO. A roofed supporters stand? Nirvana.

Section 117
04-16-2011, 08:24 PM
I guess I can sum it up. At least the supporters showed up. Cause the team didn't. I can't stand the back 4 due to them being tactically inept there is no way Winters system will ever work.

Fuck Charlie Davis that arrogant little prick.

Oor Wullie
04-16-2011, 08:26 PM
Winter.... The defence was great....WTF?

brad
04-16-2011, 08:27 PM
NEE booed the team and walked out en mass near the end.

EDIT: my mistake - booted for flares. Apologies to NEE

brad
04-16-2011, 08:29 PM
Nasty atmosphere in there btw. Peole were pissed off at the team, someone threw a beer at Martina, other were throwing beer on the pitch in frustration. Lots of booing. I think they've lost the masses.

TFCRegina
04-16-2011, 08:30 PM
2 goals for since losing our Franchise PLayer. But hey, we never needed him, because he was shit. Not a team player at all, despite being the only thing that got this team winning...

Defense? Fan-fucking-tastic. Makes me feel like I'm watching a Premiership team out there when the other team slices and dices it.

Tchani or Borman? Can't remember which one it was, but direct pass to the other team on the 3rd goal. Man, those guys were great pickups for what we traded away.

This season is a write-off as i wrote last week. If you think it's still early, I'll gladly take some bets.

Sally Mack
04-16-2011, 08:31 PM
I don't agree with:

1. Throwing beer
2. Leaving early
3. smoke bombs
4. flares

But if there ever was a game appropriate for all of the above; today was it. Well done 112 and 113.

Kc17
04-16-2011, 08:31 PM
Nasty atmosphere in there btw. Peole were pissed off at the team, someone threw a beer at Martina, other were throwing beer on the pitch in frustration. Lots of booing. I think they've lost the masses.

You could definitely sense some animosity in there late, even watching the game on TV.

Section 117
04-16-2011, 08:33 PM
Regina give it fucking up already. There is nothing Dero would have done to change the result in the game. I was there the defense is horrific they should ALL be shot because they are shut period no question about it. Anyone who disagrees is on serious shit

ManUtd4ever
04-16-2011, 08:34 PM
I sincerely hope tonight was an anomaly due to fatigue or we're in for one fuck of a long season.

The best thing about tonight was the ponzo I ate and leaving early so I can beat traffic on the way home.

flambe
04-16-2011, 08:37 PM
someone threw a beer at Martina.

great! voice concerns, sure. throw shit at OUR FUCKING PLAYERS.....get the hell out, you tool. :mad:

it was a bad game, that's it. great way to act like a supporters section by the nee "if" they did indeed walk out. :(

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 08:38 PM
I sincerely hope tonight was an anomaly due to fatigue or we're in for one fuck of a long season.

The best thing about tonight was the ponzo I ate and leaving early so I can beat traffic on the way home.

Anomaly? ... it's already the trend. This game was no different than the other 5. The only difference in this one, is similar to the Whitecaps game, we got punished for school-boy mistakes.

If I was the TFC FO I would seriously re-think this entire re-building concept before its too late.

Bring in some players and start playing some football.

flambe
04-16-2011, 08:39 PM
Bring in some players and start playing some football.

yeah, cause it's that easy.

TFCRegina
04-16-2011, 08:40 PM
Regina give it fucking up already. There is nothing Dero would have done to change the result in the game. I was there the defense is horrific they should ALL be shot because they are shut period no question about it. Anyone who disagrees is on serious shit

2 goal scored in our favour since we traded him. TWO FUCKING GOALS. Whether our D is shit or not, we're not winning games unless we score. We can't score goals, we can't win at all, good D or bad D.

I'll fucking give it up when this team proves it can put the ball in the back of the net consistently.

brad
04-16-2011, 08:40 PM
DCU showed the rest of the league what you need to do to dominate us. Press us hard in the midfield. We are trying to play a posession game but the players don't have the touch or the vision. They pressed us and we coughed it up time and time again.

Columbus will do the same thing next weekend.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 08:40 PM
yeah, cause it's that easy.

LOL ... :drum:



:smash:

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 08:42 PM
Pish.

Glad I bailed.

LesH
04-16-2011, 08:42 PM
2 goal scored in our favour since we traded him. TWO FUCKING GOALS. Whether our D is shit or not, we're not winning games unless we score. We can't score goals, we can't win at all, good D or bad D.

I'll fucking give it up when this team proves it can put the ball in the back of the net consistently.


You have a valid point here.

MG42
04-16-2011, 08:43 PM
After we went down by 2 I thought "Vancouver scored 2 goals in extra time a couple weeks ago, we have 80 minutes..."

I am so pissed right now, I hate seeing this team lose with gutless efforts and no heart.

prizby
04-16-2011, 08:44 PM
timbers shit...lets see how good it sounds without a roof


(http://twitter.com/#%21/Paulbeirne) @Paulbeirne (http://twitter.com/#%21/Paulbeirne) Paul Beirne
Supporters were spectacular tonight. A few decided to take things too far and endanger people around them. Really unfortunate.


smoke/flares...regredably i have come to the point now for in stadiums, i disagree with it...As much as i WANT to see it, and i THINK we SHOULD be allowed to do it, I don't think by breaking the "rules" this way, we are ever going to benefit from it.

I think what we need to do is have a system in place starting with communication with the front office, supporters in the supporter section then should have a few supporters trained properly as fire marshals and have an area where such amazing displays can be performed...with that being said, until something like this can be put in place, we are only going to lose by doing this

shitty i know, but there is/has to be a way that we can get this done (and it will take a lot of time)

Kc17
04-16-2011, 08:44 PM
yeah, cause it's that easy.

It really is that easy. This is not a hard league to make the playoffs in, not yet at least. Theres only 2-3 teams in MLS who are much better than the rest.

Beach_Red
04-16-2011, 08:44 PM
2 goal scored in our favour since we traded him. TWO FUCKING GOALS. Whether our D is shit or not, we're not winning games unless we score. We can't score goals, we can't win at all, good D or bad D.

I'll fucking give it up when this team proves it can put the ball in the back of the net consistently.

The issue is really that there was nothing this organization could have done to keep DeRo here. Just like it hasn't been able to keep any other player who has any other option. Has the trend of players talking to TFC and then signing somewhere else changed yet? That's when we'll know the team is rebuilding, when players want to come here.

prizby
04-16-2011, 08:45 PM
The best thing about tonight was the ponzo I ate and leaving early so I can beat traffic on the way home.

real TFC fans stay until the end

Section 117
04-16-2011, 08:47 PM
The game was over in the first ten minutes there is zero he would have done to change the bloody results if you are done a goal in the first 5 minutes like we have there is no chance to control the game. Also we were screwed out of a goal against Chivas.

So really Dero is the key he would magically make the defenders better players and know what to do. It's over and there is nothing to be had to keep bring it up. So IMO really it is time to let it go. It is getting fucking old already. The defense is the reason this team is fucking horrible.

As I have said before get rid of the back four. At this point I dont care if you or I play back there we can do a better job

MG42
04-16-2011, 08:48 PM
5 out of 12 points at home so far

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 08:49 PM
The game was over in the first ten minutes there is zero he would have done to change the bloody results if you are done a goal in the first 5 minutes like we have there is no chance to control the game. Also we were screwed out of a goal against Chivas.

So really Dero is the key he would magically make the defenders better players and know what to do. It's over and there is nothing to be had to keep bring it up. So IMO really it is time to let it go. It is getting fucking old already. The defense is the reason this team is fucking horrible.

As I have said before get rid of the back four. At this point I dont care if you or I play back there we can do a better job

Caaause our attack is ... awe ..some? Hmm.

habstfc
04-16-2011, 08:51 PM
real TFC fans stay until the end
That's about as logical as someone saying "real tfc fans buy red seats not those cheap ass yellow seats"

adam1001
04-16-2011, 08:52 PM
The game was over in the first ten minutes there is zero he would have done to change the bloody results if you are done a goal in the first 5 minutes like we have there is no chance to control the game. Also we were screwed out of a goal against Chivas.

So really Dero is the key he would magically make the defenders better players and know what to do. It's over and there is nothing to be had to keep bring it up. So IMO really it is time to let it go. It is getting fucking old already. The defense is the reason this team is fucking horrible.

As I have said before get rid of the back four. At this point I dont care if you or I play back there we can do a better job
Yeah as if our offence is much better... This team has no core. No leaders. No passion. No heart.

Heathen
04-16-2011, 08:52 PM
The game was over in the first ten minutes there is zero he would have done to change the bloody results if you are done a goal in the first 5 minutes like we have there is no chance to control the game. Also we were screwed out of a goal against Chivas.

So really Dero is the key he would magically make the defenders better players and know what to do. It's over and there is nothing to be had to keep bring it up. So IMO really it is time to let it go. It is getting fucking old already. The defense is the reason this team is fucking horrible.

As I have said before get rid of the back four. At this point I dont care if you or I play back there we can do a better job

Defence is shit, attack is less shit but still shit

adam1001
04-16-2011, 08:52 PM
Caaause our attack is ... awe ..some? Hmm.
+1 exactly

TFCRegina
04-16-2011, 08:53 PM
The game was over in the first ten minutes there is zero he would have done to change the bloody results if you are done a goal in the first 5 minutes like we have there is no chance to control the game. Also we were screwed out of a goal against Chivas.

So really Dero is the key he would magically make the defenders better players and know what to do. It's over and there is nothing to be had to keep bring it up. So IMO really it is time to let it go. It is getting fucking old already. The defense is the reason this team is fucking horrible.

As I have said before get rid of the back four. At this point I dont care if you or I play back there we can do a better job

You really must be out to lunch.

Regardless of how many goals we let in, whether it be 1 or 100, TFC can't win any fucking game without scoring goals.

And in case you haven't noticed. We aren't doing that. We can't beat any teams if we aren't fucking scoring.

Screwed out of what in the Chivas game? I know of one missed goal in that game and that was a player error. Unless you're talking about the goal that was offside under the laws of the game, which wasn't a goal either.

prizby
04-16-2011, 08:53 PM
That's about as logical as someone saying "real tfc fans buy red seats not those cheap ass yellow seats"

bet you he wouldn`t leave old trafford if united were down and out
bet you he didn`t turn off the tv today when united were losing

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 08:53 PM
real TFC fans stay until the end


I'm not a masochist, I have standards, I guess i will have to be considered to be not a real fan.

s2cazz
04-16-2011, 08:55 PM
timbers shit...lets see how good it sounds without a roof


(http://twitter.com/#%21/Paulbeirne) @Paulbeirne (http://twitter.com/#%21/Paulbeirne) Paul Beirne
Supporters were spectacular tonight. A few decided to take things too far and endanger people around them. Really unfortunate.


smoke/flares...regredably i have come to the point now for in stadiums, i disagree with it...As much as i WANT to see it, and i THINK we SHOULD be allowed to do it, I don't think by breaking the "rules" this way, we are ever going to benefit from it.

I think what we need to do is have a system in place starting with communication with the front office, supporters in the supporter section then should have a few supporters trained properly as fire marshals and have an area where such amazing displays can be performed...with that being said, until something like this can be put in place, we are only going to lose by doing this

shitty i know, but there is/has to be a way that we can get this done (and it will take a lot of time)


Garber basically dismissed any possibility that MLS could ever allow supporters groups to use flares, to which Carey prodded “actually, I kind of like the flares.” Garber said “Yeah, you like them until your stadium burns down and you have to play at Memorial Stadium.” To my mind Carey took the points with his retort: “Right—name me one stadium that’s burned down because of fans lighting flares.”

A little civil disobedience never hurt anyone. Be responsible. Watch out for your brothers and sisters in the stands and everything is alright.

Blixa
04-16-2011, 08:55 PM
I guess the only fun part is to watch this team get creamed every week because after all this team is a proxy for MLSE. I'll laugh my ass off if Portland or Vancouver make the playoffs this year, or at least finish the season above us. I said after the Vancouver game that this season is a write off.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 08:55 PM
bet you he wouldn`t leave old trafford if united were down and out
bet you he didn`t turn off the tv today when united were losing

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that United play more attractive soccer than TFC and have more of a chance of making a dramatic come back.

Then again I could be way off, I dunno.

jimiv
04-16-2011, 08:57 PM
2 goal scored in our favour since we traded him. TWO FUCKING GOALS. Whether our D is shit or not, we're not winning games unless we score. We can't score goals, we can't win at all, good D or bad D.

I'll fucking give it up when this team proves it can put the ball in the back of the net consistently.

DeRo has scored 1 goal this season...

:scarf:

Heathen
04-16-2011, 08:59 PM
Anyone see Winter's post game presser? he mentioned the R word :picard:

TFCRegina
04-16-2011, 09:00 PM
DeRo has scored 1 goal this season...

:scarf:

Fantastic news. He's therefore responsible for 2 of the six goals scored by TFC so far this season, or approximately 33% of what went in the net so far. In case you haven't noticed, there's a direct correlation between him being gone and us even having opportunities at scoring goals.

MG42
04-16-2011, 09:01 PM
Anyone see Winter's post game presser? he mentioned the R word :picard:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4942180717_e79125bbbf.jpg

Heathen
04-16-2011, 09:02 PM
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4138/4942180717_e79125bbbf.jpg

:D Nice one, no not that R word, he said "rebuilding"

ag futbol
04-16-2011, 09:03 PM
Caaause our attack is ... awe ..some? Hmm.
yeah i second that.


This team started the game laying down, trotted until Harden got sent off.. then for the first (and only time in the game) played with urgency for 10 whole minutes.

Maybe it was just a function of DCU knowing they were up 2 goals and wanting to give us the K.O. punch on the counter. But why did wingers find more space with 10 men than with 11? Why were we able to make more forward passes? Why did we create more chances?

That tells me something on the mental side of this team is not being conditioned right.

TheWolf
04-16-2011, 09:03 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that United play more attractive soccer than TFC and have more of a chance of making a dramatic come back.

Then again I could be way off, I dunno.


This x2.........are you seriously comparing TFC to ManU?

Section 117
04-16-2011, 09:05 PM
Caaause our attack is ... awe ..some? Hmm.


Really?? What sport can you play where you start a goal down on the first 5 minutes and expect to have control of the game

I guess I am watching something different then the rest of you guys

Blowing Bubbles
04-16-2011, 09:05 PM
bet you he wouldn`t leave old trafford if united were down and out
bet you he didn`t turn off the tv today when united were losing

People walk out of EPL matches all the time. Haven't you watched games that are a massacre where a bunch of fat asses give the team the finger, throw their arms up, and then walk out?

TFC07
04-16-2011, 09:06 PM
Good thing I didn't watch this game because I didn't have GolTV Canada... but instead I was watching Vancouver game on Sportsnet (It was on all 4 Sportsnet channels).

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:09 PM
:D Nice one, no not that R word, he said "rebuilding"

Winter is a puppet in my eyes now. Sure he has playing pedigree, but he's clearly being spoon-fed this "re-building" word from Anselmi and co. He mentions it in every interview he gives.

The guy has such a loose grasp on the English language, but he sure as hell knows what "re-building" means.

They clearly thought that telling us the team was "re-building" would placate us into hypnosis, buying them yet more time to put a quality product on to the field.

I'm not fooled by this act. It's just a stall tactic to save their jobs.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:11 PM
Really?? What sport can you play where you start a goal down on the first 5 minutes and expect to have control of the game

I guess I am watching something different then the rest of you guys

I dunno about watching something different ... but you are definitely drinking/ smoking/ingesting something different. Cause that made no sense my friend.

swan
04-16-2011, 09:11 PM
so how do you vote for a man of the match on the tfc site after this one..lol

bgnewf
04-16-2011, 09:11 PM
Pish.

Glad I bailed.

Glad you did too. There is no room for part time supporters on my fucking bus!
:scarf::drum::flare:

RPB_RED_NATION_RPB
04-16-2011, 09:13 PM
I don't agree with:

1. Throwing beer
2. Leaving early
3. smoke bombs
4. flares

But if there ever was a game appropriate for all of the above; today was it. Well done 112 and 113.



as for #3 and #4..about f'in time!!...well done!

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Glad you did too. There is no room for part time supporters on my fucking bus!
:scarf::drum::flare:



Not interested in riding the short bus with you.

Fushida
04-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Winter is a puppet in my eyes now. Sure he has playing pedigree, but he's clearly being spoon-fed this "re-building" word from Anselmi and co. He mentions it in every interview he gives.

The guy has such a loose grasp on the English language, but he sure as hell knows what "re-building" means.

They clearly thought that telling us the team was "re-building" would placate us into hypnosis, buying them yet more time to put a quality product on to the field.

I'm not fooled by this act. It's just a stall tactic to save their jobs.

what did you want him to say? what do you want the team to do right now? cancel all contracts and buy a new team?

all i see from you is incessant whining and sarcastic smart ass comments but nothing constructive at all. so do us all a fucking favor and stop watching the goddamn team. game was fucking garbage, i wasted 2 hrs of my time watching trash, but you're one sad human being if all you can spew out is negative shit.

jimiv
04-16-2011, 09:13 PM
Fantastic news. He's therefore responsible for 2 of the six goals scored by TFC so far this season, or approximately 33% of what went in the net so far. In case you haven't noticed, there's a direct correlation between him being gone and us even having opportunities at scoring goals.

Let's use your math - DeRo scored one goal and both Martina and Gordon have scored 2 goals for us, so is therefore Gordon and Martina are twice as good as DeRo.

DeRo's gone, we're not getting him back, so let's move on and support our team...

:flare::scarf::flare:

redcard
04-16-2011, 09:14 PM
it was a very difficult game to watch...we played much better against the galaxatives...this must have been an anomoly...young team, not conditioned to play the number of games they did in about a week...

keep hope alive people...we have had worse games in the past four years...as supporters we have to support through the good and bad...and i know its been only bad...

prizby
04-16-2011, 09:15 PM
Glad you did too. There is no room for part time supporters on my fucking bus!
:scarf::drum::flare:

100%...the real supporters showed it tonight

I can't wait til I move back to Toronto this week; I'm sickened to have missed the first 4

Heathen
04-16-2011, 09:16 PM
Winter is a puppet in my eyes now. Sure he has playing pedigree, but he's clearly being spoon-fed this "re-building" word from Anselmi and co. He mentions it in every interview he gives.

The guy has such a loose grasp on the English language, but he sure as hell knows what "re-building" means.

They clearly thought that telling us the team was "re-building" would placate us into hypnosis, buying them yet more time to put a quality product on to the field.

I'm not fooled by this act. It's just a stall tactic to save their jobs.

You know if you look at what Ajax have done in recent years it's not very impressive is it, really they haven't been producing all that many great players from their academy either

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:16 PM
Glad you did too. There is no room for part time supporters on my fucking bus!
:scarf::drum::flare:

Psychology 101 ... trying to convince yourself of the large emotional/monetary investment you have made by attacking others, telling them they are making a mistake by not behaving just like you

69Chevy396
04-16-2011, 09:17 PM
missed the game tonight, swallowed my ticket, how bad was it?

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:18 PM
what did you want him to say? what do you want the team to do right now? cancel all contracts and buy a new team?

all i see from you is incessant whining and sarcastic smart ass comments but nothing constructive at all. so do us all a fucking favor and stop watching the goddamn team. game was fucking garbage, i wasted 2 hrs of my time watching trash, but you're one sad human being if all you can spew out is negative shit.

Hi to you too.

Beach_Red
04-16-2011, 09:18 PM
Winter is a puppet in my eyes now. Sure he has playing pedigree, but he's clearly being spoon-fed this "re-building" word from Anselmi and co. He mentions it in every interview he gives.

The guy has such a loose grasp on the English language, but he sure as hell knows what "re-building" means.

They clearly thought that telling us the team was "re-building" would placate us into hypnosis, buying them yet more time to put a quality product on to the field.

I'm not fooled by this act. It's just a stall tactic to save their jobs.

Well, what else can they say? They fired the coach and GM halfway through last season but didn't have new ones in place for months. We had the DeRo drama take up most of the offseason, so we knew Winter would be starting this season in a very deep hole. He said he would "build a culture," is he on track for that? Is that the same as "rebuilding" a team?

LesH
04-16-2011, 09:18 PM
I'm disgusted by today's game, like most of the guys on this board (and for those who aren't... well it means that we watch different sports and/or to be a supporter of a team means different things to us).

Instead of commenting about the play, I'll just post here what I posted in the game thread after we went down 0-2:

---------------------

Dear Winter:

Until the defense will be a DEFENSE, your plan to build a serious team will be a total failure.

But of course you already know this.

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 09:19 PM
You know if you look at what Ajax have done in recent years it's not very impressive is it, really they haven't been producing all that many great players from their academy either


De Jong, Elia, Sneijder, Van Der Vaart, Stekelenburg, Heitinga, Babel, Emmanuelson, Van Der Wiel....

Yeah, not impressive at all.

ManUtd4ever
04-16-2011, 09:22 PM
real TFC fans stay until the end

Wow, interesting comment coming from someone who is always critical of the team.

As a supporter that has been there since day one, I don't need to justify leaving a few minutes early to avoid waiting 40 minutes to get out of the parking lot in order to watch that utter shite until the end.

So, I would tell you what to do with your opinion, but I don't want to get banned from the forum.

Fushida
04-16-2011, 09:22 PM
Hi to you too.

at least it's not a whining post. you're getting there champ.

billyfly
04-16-2011, 09:22 PM
NEE's flares were better than ours.

prizby
04-16-2011, 09:23 PM
I would like to point out that Alex Ferguson in his first season at Man United had only 4 points in his first 8 games...

TheWolf
04-16-2011, 09:24 PM
what did you want him to say? what do you want the team to do right now? cancel all contracts and buy a new team?

all i see from you is incessant whining and sarcastic smart ass comments but nothing constructive at all. so do us all a fucking favor and stop watching the goddamn team. game was fucking garbage, i wasted 2 hrs of my time watching trash, but you're one sad human being if all you can spew out is negative shit.

After 5 years of watching this team fail....I think people have a damn right to let off a little negative steam my friend. Calling him a sad human being?? You don't even know him. He is just clearly upset and frustrated with everything, as are the majority of people. Not everyone is like you and can control their temper or have an extreme amount of patience with this team.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:24 PM
You know if you look at what Ajax have done in recent years it's not very impressive is it, really they haven't been producing all that many great players from their academy either

I would say the Ajax youth system haven't produced a top European footballer in about 5-7 years.

The last wave was Van Der Vaart/Sneijder/De Jong ... then Pienaar ... then maybe Huntelaar/Babel.

They currently don't really develop the way they used to. They buy players in their early teens and bring them in that way (e.g. Christian Eriksen). A lot cheaper. But I'm not really an expert, I'm just hypothesizing off the top of my head.

Heathen
04-16-2011, 09:25 PM
De Jong, Elia, Sneijder, Van Der Vaart, Stekelenburg, Heitinga, Babel, Emmanuelson, Van Der Wiel....

Yeah, not impressive at all.

I said recent smartarse, their ages are below

De Jong 26
Elia 24
Sneijder 26
Van Der Vaart 28
Stekelenburg 28
Heitinga 27
Babel 24
Emmanuelson 24
Van Der Wiel 23

The youngest of these was out of their academy probably 5 years ago

s2cazz
04-16-2011, 09:26 PM
I just hope a "Crucify Winter" bandwagon doesn't start. Last thing we need is 7 coaches in 5 years.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:27 PM
After 5 years of watching this team fail....I think people have a damn right to let off a little negative steam my friend. Calling him a sad human being?? You don't even know him. He is just clearly upset and frustrated with everything, as are the majority of people. Not everyone is like you and can control their temper or have an extreme amount of patience with this team.

Whatever, I am negative (justifiably so).

He's negative about me being negative. So I win.

Fushida
04-16-2011, 09:27 PM
After 5 years of watching this team fail....I think people have a damn right to let off a little negative steam my friend. Calling him a sad human being?? You don't even know him. He is just clearly upset and frustrated with everything, as are the majority of people. Not everyone is like you and can control their temper or have an extreme amount of patience with this team.

there's being frustrated and being constructive. there's also being frustrated and being a whiny clown. guess which one he falls under?

ag futbol
04-16-2011, 09:28 PM
You can really only do things for so long before they catch up to you.

Starting Harden at CB is one of those things.....

Fushida
04-16-2011, 09:28 PM
Whatever, I am negative (justifiably so).

He's negative about me being negative. So I win.

it's okay, you got a dick buddy defending you , should be more grateful. you guys should send a co-signed letter to the FO full of clever complaints. that'll show them.

MG42
04-16-2011, 09:30 PM
^you're not exactly Mr. Positive hahaha

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 09:30 PM
I said recent smartarse, their ages are below

De Jong 26
Elia 24
Sneijder 26
Van Der Vaart 28
Stekelenburg 28
Heitinga 27
Babel 24
Emmanuelson 24
Van Der Wiel 23

The youngest of these was out of their academy probably 5 years ago


Take a look at Jong Ajax and their current players and you will see how many twenty somethings play in the squad, their age is irrelevant to when they actually became first team members, Van Der Wiel, Emmanuelson, Elia to start are very recently out of the Jong Ajax, certainly not 5 years.

We could add Vermaelen if we wanted to as well.

It's absurd to suggest that their academy still doesn't crank out players and they are unrivalled in their system even to this day.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:30 PM
I just hope a "Crucify Winter" bandwagon doesn't start. Last thing we need is 7 coaches in 5 years.

... so I'm going to check the "not a fan of the Maurizio Zamparini" style of hiring/firing managers then. (16 managers in 9 seasons)

swan
04-16-2011, 09:31 PM
You can really only do things for so long before they catch up to you.

Starting Harden at CB is one of those things.....


i think starting peterson at RB was worse..

daner90
04-16-2011, 09:31 PM
Definitely not ready to fire our management again and rebuild the roster.

This game was brutal no question, but I don't think it is time to mail it in for the season just yet....

Heathen
04-16-2011, 09:31 PM
there's being frustrated and being constructive. there's also being frustrated and being a whiny clown. guess which one he falls under?

frustration doesn't go with constructive thought, if you're thinking constructively you're not as frustrated as you think

s2cazz
04-16-2011, 09:32 PM
... so I'm going to check the "not a fan of the Maurizio Zamparini" style of hiring/firing managers then. (16 managers in 9 seasons)

is anyone?

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:32 PM
Take a look at Jong Ajax and their current players and you will see how many twenty somethings play in the squad, their age is irrelevant to when they actually became first team members, Van Der Wiel, Emmanuelson, Elia to start are very recently out of the Jong Ajax, certainly not 5 years.

We could add Vermaelen if we wanted to as well.

It's absurd to suggest that their academy still doesn't crank out players and they are unrivalled in their system even to this day.

It's not the same as it used to be. That's a fact. The landscape has changed.

That's not to say their still not a class organization, they just don't produce the same quality of players. Other teams are possibly/probably stealing their methods (I dunno).

fiji_blue
04-16-2011, 09:33 PM
I'm at Aji Sai sushi on queen Santos Plata and Yourassky here

TheWolf
04-16-2011, 09:33 PM
it's okay, you got a dick buddy defending you , should be more grateful. you guys should send a co-signed letter to the FO full of clever complaints. that'll show them.

Hahahahaha you sir are a hypocritical douche. You also fail at being funny.

ag futbol
04-16-2011, 09:33 PM
I just hope a "Crucify Winter" bandwagon doesn't start. Last thing we need is 7 coaches in 5 years.
We certainly do not, but we need to be rational actors here in terms of our management team.

Mo Johnston ran a horrible first year campaign for an expansion team. That is not a crime. What was a crime is that he showed characteristics of being an inept, scatterbrained, idiot who went unabated for a long period of time. For anyone with their eye really on the ball, Johston should of had a very short leash after year one and should have been fired after year two.

So my point with Winter is really that he has to show signs of being a good manager, even if we aren't winning games. We have some positives so far and some negativs. We'll see where it takes us. But if he can't do the job .. I'll take the 7 coaches in 5 years if that's what it takes to right the ship.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:34 PM
is anyone?

Delio Rossi is.

For now.

MG42
04-16-2011, 09:34 PM
I'm at Aji Sai sushi on queen Santos Plata and Yourassky here

LOL tell them to go home and think about what they've done

Heathen
04-16-2011, 09:35 PM
Take a look at Jong Ajax and their current players and you will see how many twenty somethings play in the squad, their age is irrelevant to when they actually became first team members, Van Der Wiel, Emmanuelson, Elia to start are very recently out of the Jong Ajax, certainly not 5 years.

We could add Vermaelen if we wanted to as well.

It's absurd to suggest that their academy still doesn't crank out players and they are unrivalled in their system even to this day.

Yeah you believe that, if it's unrivalled how come they haven't won an Eredivisie since 2004 then

Beach_Red
04-16-2011, 09:36 PM
I just hope a "Crucify Winter" bandwagon doesn't start. Last thing we need is 7 coaches in 5 years.

Yes, let's hope not. We knew this team was in bad shape when he took over and we knew it wouldn't be fixed in the time he's had so far. Let's not forget the last coach was fired during the season and Winter didn't get the job until months later, so not only does he have to rebuild this team, every other team in the league got a headstart on this season - again. None of that had anything to do with Winter and Mariner.

So, they don't have the team they want yet, we didn't expet it by now, did we?

Fushida
04-16-2011, 09:36 PM
^you're not exactly Mr. Positive hahaha

nah i'm pissed at the game, lol. but don't feel the need to add in retarded comments about buying "real" players and playing footy. nor do i wish to add to the "LOL TOTAL FOOTBALL" bandwagon. not sure about some posters here but i'd imaging most are pissed enough without having to read retards complain.



If I was the TFC FO I would seriously re-think this entire re-building concept before its too late.

Bring in some players and start playing some football.

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 09:36 PM
It's not the same as it used to be. That's a fact. The landscape has changed.


Bollocks.

The list I posted above is unrivalled by any academy and all are superb players and young players with huge potential already having come to playing first team football at massive clubs.

What's changed is vultures in the UK and Spain who can't create their own systems try and buy everything in sight and creating an economics that is ruining the game and in most cases ruining young lives when those players never see first team action and end up cast off on loan to favella clubs in their lower divisions.

TFC USA
04-16-2011, 09:37 PM
The following people should be shipped:

Harden
Gargan
Peterson

I do not understand why the fuck Peterson keeps getting playing time.

Fushida
04-16-2011, 09:38 PM
Hahahahaha you sir are a hypocritical douche. You also fail at being funny.

well you sir fail at reading posts. nowhere did i say i wasn't pissed. i just don't like complaining asshats like your friend who post the same thing 20 times and feel the need to insult others who have something intelligent to say.

and the funny comment? i dunno, you seemed to have found it worthy of a "hahahaha" :)

flambe
04-16-2011, 09:38 PM
Toronto fc is the only team we have. Suck it up or get out. They will get better, and even if they don't they are still my adoptive home team and I will support them. Hell I still support Bristol rovers and they haven't won anything big since the 70's.

Whining ain't gonna get you anywhere, neither is questioning loyalty.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:38 PM
Bollocks.

The list I posted above is unrivalled by any academy and all are superb players and young players with huge potential already having come to playing first team football at massive clubs.

What's changed is vultures in the UK and Spain who can't create their own systems try and buy everything in sight and creating an economics that is ruining the game and in most cases ruining young lives when those players never see first team action and end up cast off on loan to favella clubs in their lower divisions.

So we agree. I am confused.

Heathen
04-16-2011, 09:39 PM
I just hope a "Crucify Winter" bandwagon doesn't start. Last thing we need is 7 coaches in 5 years.

absolutely not, I don't want Winter sacked but he's got to have a rethink about what works in the MLS

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 09:39 PM
Yeah you believe that, if it's unrivalled how come they haven't won an Eredivisie since 2004 then


The Eredivisie has become a hell of a lot more competitive and even and there are four or five teams that could win it each year unlike the two horse race in England and Spain.

Not winning a title is not a damnation of an academy that has cranked out a dozen world classs players in 7 or so years.

I suppose a team like Arsenal is a horrible fucking team too because they haven't won a trophy in 5 years and the organization is run by bumbling fools.

Auzzy
04-16-2011, 09:40 PM
Just got back from the game & read through this thread.


I just wanted to add: The good news is, it didn't rain.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:42 PM
well you sir fail at reading posts. nowhere did i say i wasn't pissed. i just don't like complaining asshats like your friend who post the same thing 20 times and feel the need to insult others who have something intelligent to say.

and the funny comment? i dunno, you seemed to have found it worthy of a "hahahaha" :)

I'm gonna pm you before next game so that you can forward me a "Fushida pre-approved" set of comments that I am allowed to post. K?

Thx.

Beach_Red
04-16-2011, 09:42 PM
absolutely not, I don't want Winter sacked but he's got to have a rethink about what works in the MLS

Or a "think." He hasn't even seen every team in his own division yet. He probably never saw a single MLS game before he got the job.

flamehawk
04-16-2011, 09:43 PM
Toronto fc is the only team we have. Suck it up or get out. They will get better, and even if they don't they are still my adoptive home team and I will support them. Hell I still support Bristol rovers and they haven't won anything big since the 70's.

Whining ain't gonna get you anywhere, neither is questioning loyalty.

I'll be much more willing to accept poor performances and rebuilding if they didn't fucking raise the ticket prices every year.

If they continue to ask for time and say they're rebuilding - simple, lower the fucking ticket prices. They cannot expect people to be putting down the little money they have to watch this sorta crap.

I have a lot more confidence than last year despite this loss.. but still.. fucking hell I am pissed..

TheWolf
04-16-2011, 09:44 PM
well you sir fail at reading posts. nowhere did i say i wasn't pissed. i just don't like complaining asshats like your friend who post the same thing 20 times and feel the need to insult others who have something intelligent to say.

and the funny comment? i dunno, you seemed to have found it worthy of a "hahahaha" :)

You just harped on the other guy about being negative and immediately right after started being negative yourself. He also isn't my friend, I just felt the need to stick up for the guy you were belittling. The "hahahha" was me laughing at you, not with you. Anyways, I'm outta here...SJ game is on.

Heathen
04-16-2011, 09:46 PM
Or a "think." He hasn't even seen every team in his own division yet. He probably never saw a single MLS game before he got the job.

Great so you think Winter should wait until we've played everyone in the East before he decides on his tactics.

TFC USA
04-16-2011, 09:46 PM
So uh. Everyone in the LA thread who went "unbeaten in 4", right now we're winless in 4. Look at it that way.

1 win in 6.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:47 PM
You just harped on the other guy about being negative and immediately right after started being negative yourself. He also isn't my friend, I just felt the need to stick up for the guy you were belittling. The "hahahha" was me laughing at you, not with you. Anyways, I'm outta here...SJ game is on.

Hey I'm watching that too ... maybe you are my friend after all.

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 09:48 PM
So uh. Everyone in the LA thread who went "unbeaten in 4", right now we're winless in 4. Look at it that way.

1 win in 6.

Spin is fun.

Ask Paul Ryan.

MG42
04-16-2011, 09:48 PM
So uh. Everyone in the LA thread who went "unbeaten in 4", right now we're winless in 4. Look at it that way.

1 win in 6.

and where are the "We're in second place!" ers :fluffy:

flamehawk
04-16-2011, 09:50 PM
and where are the "We're in second place!" ers :fluffy:

hah.. admitedly one of those..


being a football supporter and being bipolar go hand in hand..

Heathen
04-16-2011, 09:50 PM
The Eredivisie has become a hell of a lot more competitive and even and there are four or five teams that could win it each year unlike the two horse race in England and Spain.

Not winning a title is not a damnation of an academy that has cranked out a dozen world classs players in 7 or so years.

I suppose a team like Arsenal is a horrible fucking team too because they haven't won a trophy in 5 years and the organization is run by bumbling fools.

Please tell me where I said "horrible". Ajax are the greatest Dutch team with an outstandingly proud history, I'm just not so sure that they're as great an example to copy in 2011.

Pookie
04-16-2011, 09:51 PM
What was the announced attendance?

Just over 16k

flambe
04-16-2011, 09:52 PM
If they continue to ask for time and say they're rebuilding - simple, lower the fucking ticket prices. They cannot expect people to be putting down the little money they have to watch this sorta crap.

I agree with the sentiment, but hey, people are still paying the money. In my opinion, previous years "rebuilding" is a joke excuse that I never bought into. This is really the only time we actually seem to have a plan for the "rebuilding"

Batman
04-16-2011, 09:55 PM
Well. I had a great night. I went and saw Bruce Cockburn play in Kitchener.

Looks like I picked a good night off from TFC.

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 09:59 PM
Well. I had a great night. I went and saw Bruce Cockburn play in Kitchener.

Looks like I picked a good night off from TFC.



Accusations of you not being a "Real fan" to follow your post.

Not from me of course.

Especially if you heard that rocket launcher song.

Hamilton_Red
04-16-2011, 10:00 PM
Nothing much to say. Players didn't show up, fatigue was evident, still adapting to the system, some players shouldn't be starting regularly for this team. Live and learn.

What fecking system? You can't jut go and say...we play total football. Then repeat total football a hundred times and expect the team to be good.

You need quality players....we don't have any (Frei excepted).

That was brutal.

TFC USA
04-16-2011, 10:00 PM
Spin is fun.

Ask Paul Ryan.

I like to call it the "FOX News" tactic. :D

Hamilton_Red
04-16-2011, 10:01 PM
re-building ....is bullshit. The term that describes our situation is deconstruction. We are a far worse team than last year...far far worse.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:02 PM
Bollocks.

The list I posted above is unrivalled by any academy and all are superb players and young players with huge potential already having come to playing first team football at massive clubs..

(Totally off topic, but whatever)
Your list isn't unrivaled - products of La Masia - Fabregas, Xav, Iniesta, Busquests, Messi, Bojan,Pique, Reina... That's a list that is unrivaled.

Dreadlocks
04-16-2011, 10:03 PM
Ok so we have a lot of negativity here. No problem. But c'mon, this HAS to be a one off. No matter how bad everyone here feels the team is, none of us would or could have ever predicted that shit show. Hell, even a hard core D.C. fan would have never saw this coming.

I must say that from secton 119, sections, 110,111 and 112 looked and sounded awsome. Great job!

And for the record, I'm not ashamed to say I was the last person to leave my section. Even the dude who I came with bounced in the 88th minute.

This club is my club.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:03 PM
I do not understand why the fuck Peterson keeps getting playing time.

He delivers an excellent ball in on set plays. That's my guess.

Hamilton_Red
04-16-2011, 10:04 PM
The "Total Football" thing is great if you have Cruyff - Neeskins - Johnny Rep playing for your team. With a bunch of journeymen.... any system will fail. Get the cheque book out MLSE.

Heathen
04-16-2011, 10:04 PM
He delivers an excellent ball in on set plays. That's my guess.

not tonight he didn't

MG42
04-16-2011, 10:04 PM
^ I hope it was a one off...DC hadn't scored a first half goal until tonight, and they do it at BMO.

SCF1908
04-16-2011, 10:05 PM
(Totally off topic, but whatever)
Your list isn't unrivaled - products of La Masia - Fabregas, Xav, Iniesta, Busquests, Messi, Bojan,Pique, Reina... That's a list that is unrivaled.


One generation versus Ajax having done it for decades. Incidentally it is Cruijff himself who created the entire culture at Barcelona including its academy system, pinched directly from his former employers.

Bojan and Messi are questionable on that list in my opinion.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:06 PM
absolutely not, I don't want Winter sacked but he's got to have a rethink about what works in the MLS

Still think his system is too complicated for the level of talent we have. Simple, direct football is the way to go here.

TFC07
04-16-2011, 10:09 PM
The "Total Football" thing is great if you have Cruyff - Neeskins - Johnny Rep playing for your team. With a bunch of journeymen.... any system will fail. Get the cheque book out MLSE.

Bingo. This is it! You can't expect players to perform well in a system if they're not right fit. Our defenders just suck and can't pass the ball right while our midfield isn't that talented to hold on to ball and provide service for our strikers. TFC simply don't have the right players playing in Winter's system. We need to get rid of most the players who were here last year (they seem to have trouble with the system the most) and get new players who are capable of playing 4-3-3. Also, I am starting to question two players we got from RBNY if they're right fit for our system or not. They haven't really shown much to convince me that they're capable of playing "total football"

LucaGol
04-16-2011, 10:09 PM
Still think his system is too complicated for the level of talent we have. Simple, direct football is the way to go here.

Pass, move, rinse, repeat.

This is the only system.

Mikey
04-16-2011, 10:09 PM
It was only a matter of time before the rest of the teams in the league figured out our players dont know what they are doing and will blindly continue to attempt passes across their own 18 yard box or roll the ball back to Frei when attacking players are standing right there, ready to poach the ball and score.

Beach_Red
04-16-2011, 10:10 PM
Great so you think Winter should wait until we've played everyone in the East before he decides on his tactics.

No, I don't think he's waiting. I think he was hired late and given a team that was a total mess. They're still bringing in players the day before games. This team will get better this season.

Anyway, no matter what we think, they're still paying Mo and Preki the final year of their contracts, there's no way they'll release Winter this year and pay him two more years on his contract. He's here for two years, at least, unless he quits.

Heathen
04-16-2011, 10:12 PM
Shit we could be bottom of the East by next Saturday even if we don't lose

brad
04-16-2011, 10:12 PM
What fecking system? You can't jut go and say...we play total football. Then repeat total football a hundred times and expect the team to be good.

You need quality players....we don't have any (Frei excepted).

That was brutal.

To be fair, it's the media that's called it Total Football, not the club. Nobody's played Total Football since the 70's.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:14 PM
The "Total Football" thing is great if you have Cruyff - Neeskins - Johnny Rep playing for your team. With a bunch of journeymen.... any system will fail. Get the cheque book out MLSE.

Total Football was great in the 70's.

I agree with your sentiments though. We don't have the players to play Winters system.

TFC Cityboy
04-16-2011, 10:16 PM
yes we were shit tonight, but let's be rational here. We know that we are starting over and we have a thin squad. Fans turning on the players is counter-productive.
Patience, people, please.

Mikey
04-16-2011, 10:19 PM
Shit we could be bottom of the East by next Saturday even if we don't lose

If we do lose, we could be bottom of the league.....:(

brad
04-16-2011, 10:19 PM
Bingo. This is it! You can't expect players to perform well in a system if they're not right fit. Our defenders just suck and can't pass the ball right while our midfield isn't that talented to hold on to ball and provide service for our strikers. TFC simply don't have the right players playing in Winter's system. We need to get rid of most the players who were here last year (they seem to have trouble with the system the most) and get new players who are capable of playing 4-3-3. Also, I am starting to question two players we got from RBNY if they're right fit for our system or not. They haven't really shown much to convince me that they're capable of playing "total football"

Tchani will likely be a very good footballer in 2-3 years. Potentially one of the best in the MLS. He is raw, but very talented.

wzhxvy
04-16-2011, 10:20 PM
The LA game could have easily gone the way the game went today...we were just lucky that game and not this one. I was sitting in 223 and it was a lonely feeling towards the end of the game. My only comment is that I dont think we started with the right line up.

Congrats to 112, 113 and NEE for keeping it going for so long and not faltering. More than I can say about the players and this organization headed up by Paul Bierne and Tom Anselmi.

And as an aside...I dont want to hear from anyone in the FO on fan behaviour. You are lucky you have supporters left the way you have fumbled and mumbled, taking a gift that was handed to you, and made into what it is today. No wonder MLSE picked you guys...they clearly didnt put their top talent on their least valuable asset and it shows.

Better start picking your wardrobe for the year end townhalls.

Heathen
04-16-2011, 10:22 PM
Total Football was great in the 70's.

I agree with your sentiments though. We don't have the players to play Winters system.

and with MLS salary restrictions and what not I'm not sure we can ever get them either.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:23 PM
It was only a matter of time before the rest of the teams in the league figured out our players dont know what they are doing and will blindly continue to attempt passes across their own 18 yard box or roll the ball back to Frei when attacking players are standing right there, ready to poach the ball and score.

I posted early on this. DCU pressed us hard, and we coughed it up in the midfield. That is how you beat us. Other teams will wise up to that, and we will be screwed.

Our players don't have the touch, the movement or the vision to play a fluid game. Apply pressure to the man with the ball (if it's not JDG), he'll either cough it up or make a panicked, bad pass.

Heathen
04-16-2011, 10:24 PM
Tchani will likely be a very good footballer in 2-3 years. Potentially one of the best in the MLS. He is raw, but very talented.

he hasn't looked comfortable these last two games, I think he's used to playing a certain way and it's going to take a while for him to adapt

DangerRed
04-16-2011, 10:24 PM
Alright, so who wants to tell me to be patient and that we're rebuilding?

Atrocious, from top to bottom. At least the ref was great - Harden was a straight red.

Also, 16K in attendance? Ouch, MLSE.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:26 PM
Pass, move, rinse, repeat.

This is the only system.

That's what I've said over and over. Many of our players don't have the fundamentals down. They pass but don't move into space for the return. Many can't complete a short pass when not under pressure, let alone when being pressed. First touches are poor. This is not the material for a possession based attacking system.

Batman
04-16-2011, 10:31 PM
Accusations of you not being a "Real fan" to follow your post.

Not from me of course.

Especially if you heard that rocket launcher song.

Basically, not too worried about being a part time supporter or not. TFC is in my heart (but getting a little harder to cope.)

Anyway, Cockburn did it play it, along with every other tune of his that I know. Tokyo is my favourite.

But Rocket launcher's

"If I had a rocket launcher
I'd make somebody pay!"


Seems fairly fitting, given the mood here.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:34 PM
yes we were shit tonight, but let's be rational here. We know that we are starting over and we have a thin squad. Fans turning on the players is counter-productive.
Patience, people, please.

While I agree with this, it's not the folks on a supporters forum you need to talk with about turning on the team, it's the other 15,500 people in the stadium.

This is a real risk of the way Winter is doing things. Results are going to suck for a while most likely, and most of the people in BMO are going to buy into the rebuild angle. They are going to boo the shit out of the team if they lose. This is going to affect the morale of the team eventually - probably sooner than later.

Oor Wullie
04-16-2011, 10:35 PM
Alright, so who wants to tell me to be patient and that we're rebuilding?

Atrocious, from top to bottom. At least the ref was great - Harden was a straight red.

Also, 16K in attendance? Ouch, MLSE.
16k hard to believe. The east stands looked like the platnum section of the ACC after the first period of a leaf game. Looked more like 10k-12k attended.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:36 PM
Alright, so who wants to tell me to be patient and that we're rebuilding?

Atrocious, from top to bottom. At least the ref was great - Harden was a straight red.

Also, 16K in attendance? Ouch, MLSE.

I don't think it was a straight red. I assume the red was for being the last man, I don't think he was. I have to watch the replay though.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:39 PM
On a positive note. Cordon impressed me tonight for an 18 year old breaking into the team. Great first touch (he used it to make space for himself on a number of occasions - what a novel concept).

TFCRegina
04-16-2011, 10:39 PM
I don't think it was a straight red. I assume the red was for being the last man, I don't think he was. I have to watch the replay though.

I thought it was a straight red. It appeared he was the last defender on the tv. Maybe i Need to watch it again, but I'm certain it was a clear foul and he was the last defender.

Auzzy
04-16-2011, 10:40 PM
Dear Winter:

Until the defense will be a DEFENSE, your plan to build a serious team will be a total failure.

But of course you already know this.

This is your Toronto FC starting defensive lineup, sponsored by Kraft™ Swiss Cheese™

Auzzy
04-16-2011, 10:41 PM
On a positive note. Cordon impressed me tonight for an 18 year old breaking into the team. Great first touch (he used it to make space for himself on a number of occasions - what a novel concept).

He looked great for a while, agree. One or two heel flicks too many though, when he obviously didn't have a clue who was behind him.

Whoop
04-16-2011, 10:44 PM
Horrid game.

Supporters only positive from tonight: Aron Winter

http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=2986

jazzy
04-16-2011, 10:47 PM
bet you he wouldn`t leave old trafford if united were down and out
bet you he didn`t turn off the tv today when united were losing

and he missed, at the end and as usual Winter and team came over and thanked us, and in his presser said the only thing good about tonight was the supporters/ 12th man staying behind the team after that poor of a game....and was sincerely thankful.........class, even if MLSE hates us , this man knows footie

he cares

Shep
04-16-2011, 10:48 PM
I just hope that if Winter's plan doesn't come together, he'll be flexible enough to consider alternative tactics.

Total footy may yet work for TFC, but if it never really sets with the style of play in the MLS he'll have to take a new approach.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:49 PM
I thought it was a straight red. It appeared he was the last defender on the tv. Maybe i Need to watch it again, but I'm certain it was a clear foul and he was the last defender.

I'm not sure. I sit right on the line where it happened, and it didn't look like he was the last man. Borman was over arguing with the linesman for a long time.

I'd have to look at the replay though, things happen so fast live it's easy to miss something.

brad
04-16-2011, 10:50 PM
He looked great for a while, agree. One or two heel flicks too many though, when he obviously didn't have a clue who was behind him.

I'm judging his performance in the context of it being an 18 year old kid coming from the academy. Not perfect, but a major positive. I agree he did get to fancy at times though.

noochie
04-16-2011, 10:51 PM
I thought it was a straight red. It appeared he was the last defender on the tv. Maybe i Need to watch it again, but I'm certain it was a clear foul and he was the last defender.

To me (based on the replays I saw on the big screen at BMO) it looked borderline at best... certainly from the ref's position (which was terrible all game) it would have been hard to make that determination and he likely needed some help. He didn't ask for it because I saw his hand in his back pocket as soon as that tackle was made.

That... and really there was no point. Harden hadn't even been warned to the best of my knowledge and was getting undone in a 2-0 game... red isn't necessary... it just isn't.

jazzy
04-16-2011, 10:59 PM
Glad you did too. There is no room for part time supporters on my fucking bus!
:scarf::drum::flare:

bam.....and we wonder why players get caustic?....how can one appreciate the highs without enduring some lows,.....ya, ya I know we've had a lot, but you chose your team and it's now your family

brad
04-16-2011, 11:01 PM
To me (based on the replays I saw on the big screen at BMO) it looked borderline at best... certainly from the ref's position (which was terrible all game) it would have been hard to make that determination and he likely needed some help. He didn't ask for it because I saw his hand in his back pocket as soon as that tackle was made.

That... and really there was no point. Harden hadn't even been warned to the best of my knowledge and was getting undone in a 2-0 game... red isn't necessary... it just isn't.

If he was the last man, it's a straight red, warning or not. That's the rules. Last man - red. Not the last man - yellow.

The fact that the ref didn't go to the linesman is the real issue here. The linesman is there to read those plays.

reggie
04-16-2011, 11:02 PM
how are peterson,gargan and harden still on this team????howwww

reggie
04-16-2011, 11:04 PM
To me (based on the replays I saw on the big screen at BMO) it looked borderline at best... certainly from the ref's position (which was terrible all game) it would have been hard to make that determination and he likely needed some help. He didn't ask for it because I saw his hand in his back pocket as soon as that tackle was made.

That... and really there was no point. Harden hadn't even been warned to the best of my knowledge and was getting undone in a 2-0 game... red isn't necessary... it just isn't.
the ref did us a favor,lets hope he gets 3 games.

dow117
04-16-2011, 11:06 PM
The atmosphere at the game was nasty ... stemming rom Charlie Davis and his goons dancing and taunting in front of the supporter groups...what a classless bunch; should be repriminded by the League or at least Winter ... this is a card offence to that jerkoff who spent the rest of the night diving for fouls. Very dissapointing that this act of humiliating the loyal fans did not spark the team to play with any heart at all... worst game, worst attendance,worst atmosphere, worst effort in 4 years....

Hamilton_Red
04-16-2011, 11:09 PM
We really haven't got anyone on the team close to Dero's talent - the failure of the team/Winter to sign goal scoring DP is really un-acceptable. We had absolutely no goal scoring threat tonight & to be thrashed at home to the last place team in the East - is hard to take. Where are the goals going to come from?

Hamilton_Red
04-16-2011, 11:10 PM
My season seat is right in line with 18 yard box... it looked like a red to me. I'm afraid. The game was over at the ten minute mark tonight though.

flamehawk
04-16-2011, 11:12 PM
The atmosphere at the game was nasty ... stemming rom Charlie Davis and his goons dancing and taunting in front of the supporter groups...what a classless bunch; should be repriminded by the League or at least Winter ... this is a card offence to that jerkoff who spent the rest of the night diving for fouls. Very dissapointing that this act of humiliating the loyal fans did not spark the team to play with any heart at all... worst game, worst attendance,worst atmosphere, worst effort in 4 years....


Yea.... I was fuming after that happened.. you realy kinda lose all sympathy for the guy after he acted like an ass..

The league must reprimand him.. you just can't go around inciting fans liek that

reggie
04-16-2011, 11:13 PM
why is winter not playing yourass.
i wonder who will play striker for the reserves tomorrow?

Shep
04-16-2011, 11:17 PM
why is winter not playing yourass.
i wonder who will play striker for the reserves tomorrow?

what do you mean tomorrow? the reserves played tonight

I KID!

I know, no time for the jokes, but it's good to be able to laugh after a night like tonight

reggie
04-16-2011, 11:18 PM
mlse should give us a refund for that shite,jus like seattle did last season when they lost bad at home...FAT CHANCE,

reggie
04-16-2011, 11:19 PM
what do you mean tomorrow? the reserves played tonight

I KID!

I know, no time for the jokes, but it's good to be able to laugh after a night like tonight
lol...laugh and cry at the same time.

brad
04-16-2011, 11:19 PM
My season seat is right in line with 18 yard box... it looked like a red to me. I'm afraid. The game was over at the ten minute mark tonight though.

Just watched the replay - he was level with Borman. However, I had to watch it a couple of times in slow motion to tell, so you really can't fault the officials either way when its that close. As you said, it was over by that point anyway.

Hitcho
04-16-2011, 11:26 PM
It's tough for the fans because on the one hand I reallyt want to give Winter a chance and let him develop and build a system and squad. That could mean this year is a write off.

On the other hand, no fans will stomach gutless, efortless performances. There's no fucking excuse for that. Especially at home.

It's too early still to start shooting bullets, but for a fanbase that's been through four years of shit, games like tonight are not easy to take, whatever the circumstances.

MLSE - you better be prepared to see those attendances drop. You brought this on yourself, it should NEVER have reached this point in the first place.

TFCRegina
04-16-2011, 11:33 PM
It's tough for the fans because on the one hand I reallyt want to give Winter a chance and let him develop and build a system and squad. That could mean this year is a write off.

On the other hand, no fans will stomach gutless, efortless performances. There's no fucking excuse for that. Especially at home.

It's too early still to start shooting bullets, but for a fanbase that's been through four years of shit, games like tonight are not easy to take, whatever the circumstances.

MLSE - you better be prepared to see those attendances drop. You brought this on yourself, it should NEVER have reached this point in the first place.

As embarrassing as TFC has been, I don't think we can afford to fire Winter. We need stability at the helm. Too much turnover in coaches and players. There's no core to this team because it's been torn down and "re-built" so many times.

The fact Frei and Attakora are the veterans of the squad is an embarrassment to the club. No knock on either player but I don't think either one of them is halfway through their careers yet.

Pachuco
04-16-2011, 11:41 PM
Well......I can't read this whole thread cause the only thing I could do tonight was get drunk. What I have to say is though that you could see this coming. This team played like shit on Wednesday and alot of people thought they played decent because of the result and the opponent being LA. It was obvious that we weren't playing as a cohesive unit then and it's even more obvious now. I get that this is a rebuilding year, but embarassing losses like this and like the one against Vancouver are unnaceptable. Some of the worst players on the field today were guys who were on the team last year.

I still don't blame the new management for this, but I blame that piece of shit organization who owns this team for the shit we've endured in the first 4.2 seasons of this team's existence. I can't believe I got a babysitter for this shit and that my wife stood in the freezing cold for this crap.

BTW - thank you 112 and NEE for making the end of the game exciting. You guys were an absolute blast tonight.

sloangraham
04-16-2011, 11:46 PM
so how do you vote for a man of the match on the tfc site after this one..lol
+1. i wish they didn't do the man of the match award on the field/screen after games like this. so uncomfortable for the player (and presumably, everyone else).

Auzzy
04-16-2011, 11:48 PM
It's tough for the fans because on the one hand I reallyt want to give Winter a chance and let him develop and build a system and squad. That could mean this year is a write off.

On the other hand, no fans will stomach gutless, efortless performances. There's no fucking excuse for that. Especially at home.

It's too early still to start shooting bullets, but for a fanbase that's been through four years of shit, games like tonight are not easy to take, whatever the circumstances.

MLSE - you better be prepared to see those attendances drop. You brought this on yourself, it should NEVER have reached this point in the first place.

^ Before this game, I was constantly thinking: TFC is going to lose a few (or even alot) of games before they get much better, and I wish we (the supporters) could handle it better, w/o freaking out after every game -- even after a tie.


HOWEVER, Winter said it best in his post-game: you can lose sometimes, but it really matters how you lose. And JDG also said it well: they had many of the same problems against LA, but just got very lucky that time.

The team started in a deep sleep AGAIN tonight, and never woke up except for a few minutes after it was too late (after the red card, already down 0-2). They KEPT doing risky & lazy cross-field passes, even after it was clear that DC was fast & was expecting those passes & often cutting them off. And most TFC players kept on standing & waiting for passes (instead of taking a step towards the ball), even after DC had repeatedly stepped up to intercept thoses passes. Plus just not running as hard, not getting the rebounds & 2nd balls, etc etc etc etc.

TFCREDNWHITE
04-17-2011, 12:05 AM
Why the hell did peterson start in the back!!? And why is Nana in the bench!!?

nfitz
04-17-2011, 12:06 AM
Why the hell did peterson start in the back!!? And why is Nana in the bench!!?Good questions!

Pachuco
04-17-2011, 12:11 AM
Why the hell did peterson start in the back!!? And why is Nana in the bench!!?

I can't blame Peterson for starting at RB. He looked alright there in the 2nd half against San Jose. But I certainly have an issue with Harden starting over Nana. I just hope that this is the red card that sees Harden relegated to the bench. I can't understand what makes Winter think Harden is a better defender.

Now, what I REAAAALLLY want to know is why the fuck did we sign Dicoy Williams. Are you telling me that after some horrible games from Gargan he's still higher on the depth chart the Williams is? Damn, this Williams dude must be absolutely terrible to not get playing time on a defense as bad as this one at this point.

AntiJaune
04-17-2011, 12:13 AM
2 goals for since losing our Franchise PLayer. But hey, we never needed him, because he was shit. Not a team player at all, despite being the only thing that got this team winning...

Defense? Fan-fucking-tastic. Makes me feel like I'm watching a Premiership team out there when the other team slices and dices it.

Tchani or Borman? Can't remember which one it was, but direct pass to the other team on the 3rd goal. Man, those guys were great pickups for what we traded away.

This season is a write-off as i wrote last week. If you think it's still early, I'll gladly take some bets.

I'll gladly take Tchani and their 1st pick in the trade for some selfish bitch disrupting the lockeroom because he had his feelings hurt. Tell him to go sign his fucking cheques when he scores in NY riding pine making the same dough and with the same ZE-RO "GUARANTEES".

Bormon was a throw in to the deal but I think you're referring to his giveaway on the 2nd goal.

ArmenJBX
04-17-2011, 12:13 AM
Can we all agree now that Jacob Peterson isn't shit?
Please? :D

AntiJaune
04-17-2011, 12:17 AM
Why the hell did peterson start in the back!!? And why is Nana in the bench!!?

Due to our severe lack of cover at RB Peterson should start there by default. As for Nana he's been piss poor thus far and way too nervous on the field.

werewolf
04-17-2011, 12:17 AM
If we ever play against their #9 again, the flood gates are open. I had sympathy for him this time last year.

It's a shame we don't have anyone with heart on the team to put some studs in him and stand up for the club, supporters and the city.

scooterTFC
04-17-2011, 12:25 AM
We got pounded tonight. Ugly. The things that were broken tonight have been broken all year. So the people freakin out about this game need to look at previous games also. DC took there chances and deserve some credit, we've given opportunities to other teams they just didn't convert.

Auzzy
04-17-2011, 12:27 AM
^ Well, I guess Vancouver converted quite well...

TFCREDNWHITE
04-17-2011, 12:42 AM
I turned the game off, but what did charlie davies do???

AntiJaune
04-17-2011, 12:42 AM
If we ever play against their #9 again, the flood gates are open. I had sympathy for him this time last year.

It's a shame we don't have anyone with heart on the team to put some studs in him and stand up for the club, supporters and the city.

You would think it'd be Gargan. He brings all the intangibles I hear - truculence, grit, "sandpaper" & heart.

I'm actually disappointed he didn't react sometime after his introduction into the match because I really don't know what else we pay that piece of fucking wood for? Dick.

kaos197O
04-17-2011, 12:50 AM
I turned the game off, but what did charlie davies do???
He scored, then ran to his right to celebrate but thought "Fuck that, I'll smear this in their Supporter's faces" Turned left and ran directly towards 111 and 112 stopping about 10 feet short and did a DANCE, like NFL football players do while laughing and pointing at us. Then encouraged his teammates to join in.

Some beers were tossed at him but I am shocked that someone didn't jump that wall a knock his fucking teeth in.

InDa_110
04-17-2011, 01:02 AM
Good questions!
Because nana fucken sucks!

InDa_110
04-17-2011, 01:05 AM
Dear Coach Winter: (Because I know you read these boards)

If another team ever fucken dances in front of your supporters, your fundamental fan base again, and they are not hacked to the ground by your team on the very next play.......it's on you..............

Brooker
04-17-2011, 01:20 AM
I let my friends go to this....I feel bad now

I hear ya. It was my brothers first game in almost 2 years. Of all the games to take him to. lol. :o

Joe Kool
04-17-2011, 01:33 AM
Now, what I REAAAALLLY want to know is why the fuck did we sign Dicoy Williams. Are you telling me that after some horrible games from Gargan he's still higher on the depth chart the Williams is? Damn, this Williams dude must be absolutely terrible to not get playing time on a defense as bad as this one at this point.

He wasn't even on the bench tonight...odd.

Toronto FC -- Stefan Frei, Jacob Peterson, Ty Harden, Adrian Cann (Nana Attakora 12), Danleigh Borman, Oscar Cordon (Dan Gargan 54), Julian de Guzman, Tony Tchani, Javier Martina, Maicon Santos (Gianluca Zavarise 66), Alen Stevanovic.

Substitutes Not Used: Joao Plata, Nick Soolsma, Mikael Yourassowsky, Milos Kocic.

Bars92
04-17-2011, 01:48 AM
booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. think im done for a while...

Roogsy
04-17-2011, 01:52 AM
Personally I think Winter has spent so much time and energy educating the league on attractive, posession based, 4-3-3 football, that he hasnt noticed the other teams are just finding ways to break it, with not much effort.

Id prefer Winter keep his strategies and plans under wraps, instead of making his tactical plan something for color commentators to talk about.

However if you take awy all the hype about building a system and culture, total football, academy development etc....

well if you take away that, all you have left is clumsy, toothless football and another set of unhappy players stinking up the pitch, and no real excuses for it.

This.

Roogsy
04-17-2011, 01:56 AM
So uh. Everyone in the LA thread who went "unbeaten in 4", right now we're winless in 4. Look at it that way.

1 win in 6.

:lol:

Roogsy
04-17-2011, 02:00 AM
All I can say is that when the best part of the game (according to pretty much everyone, supporters, media, players, coaches and team ownership) is the supporters, you know you're in a bad spot.

I didn't see the game so I will not comment on it. But I sure hope this puts away all ridiculous optimism and replaces not with Roogsy's bitterness but at least some objective criticism of this team and some pressure on TFC not to rush into fixing it but to make sure they continue to throw resources at this team to build a solid foundation and STOP SCREWING WITH THE FANS AND SUPPORTERS! WE'RE ALL YOU GOT RIGHT NOW AND YOU'D BETTER NEVER FORGET IT!

Bars92
04-17-2011, 02:13 AM
wow the supporters were so amazing blah blah blah. The game wasn't that well attended first off the stadium was half empty.forget ownership its up to the players man

Azerban
04-17-2011, 02:18 AM
:lol:

laugh it up

Roogsy
04-17-2011, 02:19 AM
Regina give it fucking up already. There is nothing Dero would have done to change the result in the game. I was there the defense is horrific they should ALL be shot because they are shut period no question about it. Anyone who disagrees is on serious shit


DeRo is gone period. I've stopped talking about him on this board, he is now a Red Bull. I agree. All of us should move on.

However, touching on a subject that was debated incessantly when he was here, I'd really like to know: Where are these supposed "leaders" that should be stepping up and doing what he apparently never did while he was here?

Roogsy
04-17-2011, 02:20 AM
laugh it up

I am laughing at the point made, not at this sad team.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-17-2011, 02:21 AM
I thought they moved the ball around with some style at times. I think this yet might come together.

TFCRegina
04-17-2011, 02:22 AM
DeRo is gone period. I've stopped talking about him on this board, he is now a Red Bull. I agree. All of us should move on.

However, touching on a subject that was debated incessantly when he was here, I'd really like to know: Where are these supposed "leaders" that should be stepping up and doing what he apparently never did while he was here?

Or, an even lesser demand really, because leadership is more difficult to produce...

Where are these guys who are going to be putting the ball in the back of the net with consistency?

Mariner (and many on these boards) said the goals would come from somewhere. We've had 2 scored since he's left. So where are they coming from and when?

gino12
04-17-2011, 02:26 AM
guys, its gino I lost my brazil raincoat in ur section, if I can get that back ill thank you guys forever, like really if u guys can find it I would really appreciate it, its a historic shirt for me, I would really wanna find it.

Azerban
04-17-2011, 02:28 AM
Or, an even lesser demand really, because leadership is more difficult to produce...

Where are these guys who are going to be putting the ball in the back of the net with consistency?

Mariner (and many on these boards) said the goals would come from somewhere. We've had 2 scored since he's left. So where are they coming from and when?

scoring goals is not the problem hope this helps in your future posting endeavours

TFCRegina
04-17-2011, 02:33 AM
scoring goals is not the problem hope this helps in your future posting endeavours

Scoring goals isn't the problem eh?

If we fix our defense, and we aren't putting goals in the other teams' nets, where does that leave us?

Nil Nil draws.

At least when we were scoring we had a chance at rallying from these deficits.

I hope that helps in your future posting endeavours.

Bars92
04-17-2011, 02:46 AM
goals and defence are not two separate things. the whole squad is green and inexperienced in this implemented system. We need a veteran player or two that knows this total football philosophy

James17930
04-17-2011, 02:47 AM
I thought they moved the ball around with some style at times. I think this yet might come together.

But only in our own end between the defenders, and only once DC were up by two and so were laying off the pressure a bit.

I really think this system is going to much more difficult to implement than Winter thought since it is such high constant high pressure, which you get as much in Euro leagues.

Winter needs to make sure he's building something that's gonna work in MLS and isn't trying to fit a sq. peg into a round hole.

king dave
04-17-2011, 02:51 AM
I am wide up and would love to join the discussion if that's okay.
KD.

king dave
04-17-2011, 02:53 AM
Getting the feeling that imported managers/coaches are not fitting here in NA.
Mojo included.
Well?
KD.

Roogsy
04-17-2011, 02:54 AM
Winter needs to make sure he's building something that's gonna work in MLS and isn't trying to fit a sq. peg into a round hole.

I am glad someone is asking this.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-17-2011, 02:56 AM
But only in our own end between the defenders, and only once DC were up by two and so were laying off the pressure a bit.

I really think this system is going to much more difficult to implement than Winter thought since it is such high constant high pressure, which you get as much in Euro leagues.

Winter needs to make sure he's building something that's gonna work in MLS and isn't trying to fit a sq. peg into a round hole.

I think there was fluidity to their movement, I'm seeing things every game that weren't there before. That said, yes it was a horrible result. I think we've seen some little adaptations already, the number of long balls and long clearances for instance. Also I thought they pressed better this game.

I most definitely in the minority on this, I like when they win, but I don't get too cheesed off when they lose. I still think it's neat just to have a team.

king dave
04-17-2011, 02:59 AM
^^Exactly.
When I was in South Carolina, I was about 5 feet away from Winter for about 5 minutes before the first game and could not help but notice he had a defeated look.
Like he wished he hadn't taken this gig.
Serious. Looked like, "Oops! What did I do" look.
KD.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-17-2011, 03:09 AM
^^Exactly.
When I was in South Carolina, I was about 5 feet away from Winter for about 5 minutes before the first game and could not help but notice he had a defeated look.
Like he wished he hadn't taken this gig.
Serious. Looked like, "Oops! What did I do" look.
KD.

He does have a strange manner. I wonder what level of scrutiny he faced as a reserve and youth team coach at Ajax. Much less focused on results I would think.

A little OT, I bet TFC would have won if it rained. I got the sense something little could have changed this.

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:09 AM
I really think that the decision makers went to Kman for a referral and Winter was the only available candidate at the time.
The effort was to appease the supporters/SSHs ASAP.
And I hate to say this but I feel I have to.

Every Professional sports franchise in the city of Toronto has conducted itself in the same manner for many, many years.
With the exception of one, they will continue to.
KD.

Roogsy
04-17-2011, 03:14 AM
I don't get the sense that he is happy here. Frustration is a word that most accurately describes his current state of mind in my opinion. We can only hope that it improves because nobody can sustain that state of mind forever and if things don't change for the better for him, he will change it himself. That won't necessarily be beneficial for Toronto FC and the fans.

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:15 AM
He does have a strange manner.

I get that feeling too.
I just don't get the vibe that he is here to get a solid team together to fucking win.
He isn't a very inspirational fella is all.
Very strange.
KD.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-17-2011, 03:15 AM
I think any decision is more nuanced than that. Yes they picked Winter because they thought he would quell some of the dissent within the supporters, but they also picked him because he sold them and they believe that he'll get it right. These are dollars and cents people, as everyone belabours, the teams a better money maker if it's winning.

He could borrow a little personality from de Clerk, but I for one still have faith in Winter.

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:18 AM
I don't get the sense that he is happy here.
Bingo Roogs.
I said it in Chucktown that I can't see players being inspired by this douche.
And his coaching staff? Cardboard cutouts would have been better.
Just my obs.
KD.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-17-2011, 03:21 AM
Bingo Roogs.
I said it in Chucktown that I can't see players being inspired by this douche.
And his coaching staff? Cardboard cutouts would have been better.
Just my obs.
KD.

A little soon don't you think? Worst case scenario, he's doing his best and his best isn't good enough. We're just getting to know this team and the players. I really think people need to give them time.

Time for bed?

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:24 AM
I have know idea how this franchise will evolve.
But I do know this.
I am gonna get another beer and get back at ya.
KD.

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:31 AM
A little soon don't you think? Worst case scenario, he's doing his best and his best isn't good enough. We're just getting to know this team and the players. I really think people need to give them time.

Time for bed?
Nope!
Wide a fuckingwake son!
Let's have a look at this post.
And I will be nice 'cause I am nice!

1. This team is a revolving door with no brake/regulator.
Disagree?
2. Who the fuck has Winter got to pick from?
3. The MLSE, at the end of the day, will decide on any expenditures.

You know these fucking, fucks have to have a meeting to get the brand of toilet paper changed. 3 fucking weeks.
How long do you think it would take these fuckwads to decide on paying a worthwhile player his due?
KD.

jloome
04-17-2011, 03:34 AM
I'm of two minds. I know everyone wants to shit on the team, but I genuinely believe that for the most part our midfield and forward line is stronger than it has ever been, by a far margin. They have technique, movement, can hold the ball. We're still an attacking mid short, but it's not the league's worst attack, by any means.

In our own end, however, we're terrible. Fucking awful.

I said a week ago I was somewhat concerned when Winter said he'd spoken to Gullit before coming, as Gullit was abysmal, an absentee "celebrity" coach, as outlined in Grant Wahl's book.

And Gullit LOVED Ty Harden.

Boreman is fast but makes poor decisions. And Winter distrusts Attakora, even though our entire backline has had moments of surpeme crappiness.

You have to wonder, regardless of his ability to eventually teach a system (and FC Edmonton, a crap team technically, is showing you can make a dutch 433 work in your favour) whether Winter is a good judge of ability, to be playing Harden week in and out and sitting Attakora. And playing Peterson against Chris Pontius was embarassing.

I think if we keep seeing Harden start (or Peterson as a defender again) then we'll have legitimate reason to worry about Winter's judgment.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-17-2011, 03:38 AM
Nope!
Wide a fuckingwake son!
Let's have a look at this post.
And I will be nice 'cause I am nice!

1. This team is a revolving door with no brake/regulator.
Disagree?
2. Who the fuck has Winter got to pick from?
3. The MLSE, at the end of the day, will decide on any expenditures.

You know these fucking, fucks have to have a meeting to get the brand of toilet paper changed. 3 fucking weeks.
How long do you think it would take these fuckwads to decide on paying a worthwhile player his due?
KD.

I think this is the only point I'd disagree on. TFC have got a big squad, far bigger than in pervious years. If they can get the defence even halfway sorted, things could be okay. I honestly believe TFC have got the players, it's just a matter of getting them playing as a team. Up and to a point, you can be individuals coming forward, but you've got to be a team at the back and TFC aren't there yet.

The jury's still out on Winter, and I'm still not sure why TFC didn't look a Rafael Carjabal, in that, on a smaller scale, he did what Winter is looking to do with TFC in the space of a year with Milltown. Probably would have came a lot cheaper too. Maybe it's not too late to get him involved with the team.

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:38 AM
A few players have left us.
Some good, some not so good and some that we liked/they liked us.
They all have the same opinion basically.
Pre-Moe/post-Moe, who gives a fuck.
Moe is in the fucking cornfield where he belongs.
But?
Why do they all have the same opinion about the owners?
KD.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-17-2011, 03:39 AM
I'm of two minds. I know everyone wants to shit on the team, but I genuinely believe that for the most part our midfield and forward line is stronger than it has ever been, by a far margin. They have technique, movement, can hold the ball. We're still an attacking mid short, but it's not the league's worst attack, by any means.

In our own end, however, we're terrible. Fucking awful.

I said a week ago I was somewhat concerned when Winter said he'd spoken to Gullit before coming, as Gullit was abysmal, an absentee "celebrity" coach, as outlined in Grant Wahl's book.

And Gullit LOVED Ty Harden.

Boreman is fast but makes poor decisions. And Winter distrusts Attakora, even though our entire backline has had moments of surpeme crappiness.

You have to wonder, regardless of his ability to eventually teach a system (and FC Edmonton, a crap team technically, is showing you can make a dutch 433 work in your favour) whether Winter is a good judge of ability, to be playing Harden week in and out and sitting Attakora. And playing Peterson against Chris Pontius was embarassing.

I think if we keep seeing Harden start (or Peterson as a defender again) then we'll have legitimate reason to worry about Winter's judgment.

That's an interesting point, Gullit was a fan of Gordon's too. I wonder if Gullit talked them up to Winter while TFC and Terek's camps overlapped in Turkey?

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:46 AM
I think this is the only point I'd disagree on. TFC have got a big squad, far bigger than in pervious years. If they can get the defence even halfway sorted, things could be okay. I honestly believe TFC have got the players, it's just a matter of getting them playing as a team. Up and to a point, you can be individuals coming forward, but you've got to be a team at the back and TFC aren't there yet.

The jury's still out on Winter, and I'm still not sure why TFC didn't look a Rafael Carjabal, in that, on a smaller scale, he did what Winter is looking to do with TFC in the space of a year with Milltown. Probably would have came a lot cheaper too. Maybe it's not too late to get him involved with the team.
Yes, I think Winter has gotten into a gig where he can sucessfully get out of.
And I think he will.
But, as you reffered to the CSL?
Great football and I am a devout supporter of the league.
Have to develop in our own backyard for fucksakes!
KD.

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:48 AM
I hope you are not a fucking Mancunt!!
KD.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-17-2011, 03:51 AM
Yes, I think Winter has gotten into a gig where he can sucessfully get out of.
And I think he will.
But, as you reffered to the CSL?
Great football and I am a devout supporter of the league.
Have to develop in our own backyard for fucksakes!
KD.

True, and I liked Milltown, pity they're not playing in the CSL this year, but their best three players, Kuipers, the Soccer Beast, Mangwa were all foreign.

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:55 AM
True, and I liked Milltown, pity they're not playing in the CSL this year, but their best three players, Kuipers, the Soccer Beast, Mangwa were all foreign.
Same with HamCro. 4 imports.
If we could just support at the grass roots level? we could have a Canadian league/group to cull from.
HamCro is without a league 2011.
Milltown?
KD.

king dave
04-17-2011, 03:57 AM
Dino is one douchebag I would do anything for.
Well with respect to footy:D
KD.

king dave
04-17-2011, 04:05 AM
Gotta go now. The Korean girls down the hall want me to do Tom Jones.
Great dialogue kiddo.
KD.

LesH
04-17-2011, 04:41 AM
WOW, I'm just watching the post-game interview with Winter.
He seems a sad, sad man, like someone who fully realizes that the present personnel won't cut it, and just that's it for now, shitshow like this will happen every once in awhile with these players.

Shakes McQueen
04-17-2011, 05:48 AM
Bad, bad game for TFC. It'll happen occasionally though - particularly with the way our roster is currently made up.

I'm not going to go too berserk about it.

- Scott