TFC vs DCU post game rant

[king dave]

WOW, I'm just watching the post-game interview with Winter.
He seems a sad, sad man, like someone who fully realizes that the present personnel won't cut it, and just that's it for now, shitshow like this will happen every once in awhile with these players.
Yes.
KD.

[Whoop]

WOW, I'm just watching the post-game interview with Winter.
He seems a sad, sad man, like someone who fully realizes that the present personnel won't cut it, and just that's it for now, shitshow like this will happen every once in awhile with these players.

I want Winter to succeed not because of who he is or what he represents but because this team needs stability. I appreciate he wants to play his system but as a coach he should adjust his strategies to the strength of his players until he gets the personnel to carry out his vision,

And he also has to realize if he fails here its not like he'll be going home to a flood of job offers.

[king dave]

^Agree Vic.
I truly believe Winter came here with the best intentions and now realizes that he has a huge hill to climb with the talent pool/restrictions within the MLS.
I don't think anyone with credentials up the hoop could come here and make an initial go of it.
Not with this ownership anyways.
KD.

[king dave]

This team needs an owner.
Not a fucking pension fund.
KD.

[king dave]

Owners decide in their own best interests.
Pension funds decide in their members' best interests.
Simple.
KD.

[Pookie]

... at least some objective criticism of this team and some pressure on TFC not to rush into fixing it but to make sure they continue to throw resources at this team to build a solid foundation and STOP SCREWING WITH THE FANS AND SUPPORTERS!

Ok. So, aside from laughing at the team's performance and questioning DeRo-less leadership, are you happy with the resources being put into this team?

In light of the pending announcement on Monday about the investment in TFC Academy, I'm curious as to how you would assess their resource investment.

Wouldn't it reason that if you don't want them to rush into fixing it with band aids that you would simply point to these things in your assessments?

Or is it, that you have all the patience in the world as long as they win now?

[king dave]

2 hours to football.
Join me @ the klit for a pint you retrobates!
KD.

[king dave]

Over-out.
Time to get my drink on.
Man O man there are a bunch of cockwalleppers up early this morning:D
Have fun.
I know I will.
KD.

[canadian_bhoy]

I don't know what it is, but I'm loving the team this year. Last night we came out flat and went down two very quickly and that killed us. The sending off pretty much ensured that a third was coming.

BUT

I still say we're playing more attractive football then we ever have. JDG skinned two guys tonight with skill I've never seen in a red shirt at BMO. He owned Wednesday and he bossed things again last night.

When we went down a man we actually took it to them for about ten mins. The on the deck play and switches are so refreshing to see.

We're a couple pieces away. Don't give up on winter. He wants us to be the team we all want, and I think he can get us there.

Keep the faith.

[flamehawk]

I don't know what it is, but I'm loving the team this year. Last night we came out flat and went down two very quickly and that killed us. The sending off pretty much ensured that a third was coming.

BUT

I still say we're playing more attractive football then we ever have. JDG skinned two guys tonight with skill I've never seen in a red shirt at BMO. He owned Wednesday and he bossed things again last night.

When we went down a man we actually took it to them for about ten mins. The on the deck play and switches are so refreshing to see.

We're a couple pieces away. Don't give up on winter. He wants us to be the team we all want, and I think he can get us there.

Keep the faith.

No matter how frustrated I was with yesterday, I have to agree with you. Prekiball was so unbareable for me that I was actually losing interest in watching the team, but with Winter talking over, I've really gotten into it again. The football is somewhat attractive, at least for the 10 min or so of godo attacking play... but ya, the individual skills for certain players are there.. we just need a couple more and a lot more consistency.

Some of the observations about Winter being frustrated or having given it is alarming, but I hope they are wrong.

[markus]

Tony_Tchani (http://twitter.com/Tony_Tchani) Not a good night and I really want to thank all the fans who made it to the game n stayed until the end

[deltox]

i thought the team was going to be complete before the first game? werent we told that?

[Alixir]

That Davis wanker with the electrical tape all over his jersey needs a beercup full of piss off the face.

[Oldtimer]

I guess few people here listened to the FAN590 Soccer Show last Thursday.

Mariner said during that show that they were quite a few players away from what they want. Does anyone seriously think that if Winter and Mariner had been given a brand new, from scratch, expansion franchise that they would have guys like Dan Gargan on the squad?

We are where we are. A half-built squad with some Preki & Mo leftovers, of those leftovers only one player who is really good (Frei), one who is now looking that he will be good (JDG) and the rest looking mostly like crap. I'm not expecting much this season (neither are Winter or Mariner to be honest). If we squeak into the playoffs, it will be a bonus. Otherwise don't expect much until 2012. Will there be many in the stands, though? That will be the question.

In our first year, we were so proud of our support. A number of wiser minds on BS said "wait until you've been around a few years, it won't last." It now seems that they were right.

[swiss76]

it was a bad game (horrible) but hey the sun came up today...or should i say the snow is here today.. i will support this team no matter how bad or good they are...yes its frustrating but it is what it is!

[torontocelt]

real TFC fans stay until the end

Take that Man U!

[torontocelt]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that United play more attractive soccer than TFC and have more of a chance of making a dramatic come back.

Then again I could be way off, I dunno.


You could be on to something there

[Pinkie]

Scoring goals isn't the problem eh?

If we fix our defense, and we aren't putting goals in the other teams' nets, where does that leave us?

Nil Nil draws.

At least when we were scoring we had a chance at rallying from these deficits.

I hope that helps in your future posting endeavours.

we have 6 points and 6 goals

philly has 10 points and 4 goals

but our goal scoring is the problem

e: whoops logged in as other half

[jabbronies]

Take that Man U!

Quiet you!

But seriously, I hope fans can look through the shitpile and see that there is a decent foundation being built here by Winter and co.

[2mil4dero+santo]

Quiet you!

But seriously, I hope fans can look through the shitpile and see that there is a decent foundation being built here by Winter and co.

Instead of telling us what you hope we can see, why don't you tell us what it is you see? Coz all I can see is a bunch of players with very limited football qualities and even more limited motivation.
Sorry, but I can't see anything "decent" about this team. I must be impatient and not a real fan...

[Heathen]

Instead of telling us what you hope we can see, why don't you tell us what it is you see? Coz all I can see is a bunch of players with very limited football qualities and even more limited motivation.
Sorry, but I can't see anything "decent" about this team. I must be impatient and not a real fan...

Spot on. I want to believe that things are going in the right direction and I'm even willing to put up with some short term pain while it happens but I see very little evidence that we are getting better. And telling me how good Ajax were isn't evidence

[SCF1908]

And telling me how good Ajax were isn't evidence


Hahahaha. Fair play.

[ManUtd4ever]

Take that Man U!

Yeah, he really got me there. The genius that made the comment wasn't even at the game. I froze my ass off for 85 minutes watching that shite.

As for the match itself, like I said earlier, I hope the lacklustre effort was due to fatigue. The team looked far more dangerous against San Jose, and I hope we will see a renewed effort against Columbus when the players are well rested.

[ACSertL]

guys, its gino I lost my brazil raincoat in ur section, if I can get that back ill thank you guys forever, like really if u guys can find it I would really appreciate it, its a historic shirt for me, I would really wanna find it.

Just bumping this so it doesn't get buried.

[levyashin]

Had to miss the game yesterday because of family commitment,afriend took his 2 youngsters to see this team with pure excitement on there faces.i will not phone him this week .after reading the reviews and watching the replays ,please release me should be gargan,harden,peterson mantra.How can we be so unorganised to start a game.Nobody deserved man of the match,it is time to put up or shut up.

[gino12]

Just bumping this so it doesn't get buried.

Thanks for keeping an eye out for this, i would really like to hear about the coat, if you guys know anything pls msg me, im goin crazy after this coat.

[ACSertL]

Thanks for keeping an eye out for this, i would really like to hear about the coat, if you guys know anything pls msg me, im goin crazy after this coat.

No problem. I'm not in 112 but I wanted to make sure that if someone did pick up your jacket your post didn't get buried. Maybe this needs its own thread.

[Beach_Red]

I still say we're playing more attractive football then we ever have. JDG skinned two guys tonight with skill I've never seen in a red shirt at BMO. He owned Wednesday and he bossed things again last night.

When we went down a man we actually took it to them for about ten mins. The on the deck play and switches are so refreshing to see.

We're a couple pieces away. Don't give up on winter. He wants us to be the team we all want, and I think he can get us there.

Keep the faith.

How much of that"attractive football" has to do with the fact that for the other team the game is already over? For all that attractive football was there ever a feeling they were going to score some goals and get back intomthe game?

We seem to discuss the league and even the games with almost no notice of the other teams. We seem to think they're all standing still while we rebuild.

The worst thing about this whole thing is the fact that there was an opportunity for TFC to be one of the dominant teams in the league but instead of doing that they allowed themselves to dig a deep hole that they now have to climb out of.

A few teams in this league are really going to seperate themselves from the pack this year and it sometimes feels like we're "rebuilding" a team for MLS 2007.

[Pachuco]

I guess few people here listened to the FAN590 Soccer Show last Thursday.

Mariner said during that show that they were quite a few players away from what they want. Does anyone seriously think that if Winter and Mariner had been given a brand new, from scratch, expansion franchise that they would have guys like Dan Gargan on the squad?

We are where we are. A half-built squad with some Preki & Mo leftovers, of those leftovers only one player who is really good (Frei), one who is now looking that he will be good (JDG) and the rest looking mostly like crap. I'm not expecting much this season (neither are Winter or Mariner to be honest). If we squeak into the playoffs, it will be a bonus. Otherwise don't expect much until 2012. Will there be many in the stands, though? That will be the question.

In our first year, we were so proud of our support. A number of wiser minds on BS said "wait until you've been around a few years, it won't last." It now seems that they were right.

Honestly though, why is it that these Preki guys are the one's getting playing time over the guys they brought in? It just doens't make sense to me. If it was me, and I really thought Harden, peterson, Gargan...etc were hampering the team, then I'd rather lose with my boys on the field then some leftovers from another coach. So I'm not buying this argument that this is Preki's fault. They've had time to replace them, they've gone out and acquired guys to play those positions, and they still think these Preki guys are the best they have in that position. Frustrating to say the least.

[AL-MO]

He scored, then ran to his right to celebrate but thought "Fuck that, I'll smear this in their Supporter's faces" Turned left and ran directly towards 111 and 112 stopping about 10 feet short and did a DANCE, like NFL football players do while laughing and pointing at us. Then encouraged his teammates to join in.

Some beers were tossed at him but I am shocked that someone didn't jump that wall a knock his fucking teeth in.

I was in the first row and wanted to. I really did.

:flare:

[Auzzy]

I guess few people here listened to the FAN590 Soccer Show last Thursday.

Mariner said during that show that they were quite a few players away from what they want. Does anyone seriously think that if Winter and Mariner had been given a brand new, from scratch, expansion franchise that they would have guys like Dan Gargan on the squad?

We are where we are. A half-built squad with some Preki & Mo leftovers, of those leftovers only one player who is really good (Frei), one who is now looking that he will be good (JDG) and the rest looking mostly like crap. I'm not expecting much this season (neither are Winter or Mariner to be honest). If we squeak into the playoffs, it will be a bonus. Otherwise don't expect much until 2012. Will there be many in the stands, though? That will be the question.

In our first year, we were so proud of our support. A number of wiser minds on BS said "wait until you've been around a few years, it won't last." It now seems that they were right.

^ QFT +1 etc etc.

As Winter said, I still didn't like the way they lost. However, I'm hoping this was the perfect time for a wake-up call, and that the boys come out against Columbus next Saturday with some fire in their bellies? I'm hoping (but NOT expecting) that we will finally get a win against the Crew. However, after a slow start to the season, the Crew been very good defensively lately, with a string of shutouts. It ain't gonna be easy...

[London]

i was so disgusted with charlie davies i made some comments that were pretty bad.


was a pile of shit move by him and then his teamates to celebrate the way they did right in front of the supporters.

[rocker]

i was so disgusted with charlie davies i made some comments that were pretty bad..

something about the car crash? ;)

that was a douchebag move for Davies. If he wanted to celebrate with supporters he should have run over to the DC united supporters and waved up to them.

[J .]

TFC needs better defending. Losing 3-0, 3-2, or whatever isnt getting points. 0-0 at least your getting a point. The object of the game is to get points, there is no such thing as style points, or you scored a ton of goals and lost points either.

You have to defend in this game or you will lose. End of.

The problem with TFC is that they've never been able to defend without putting 11 guys behind the ball and even then the team was shaky.

Last night, Borman and Peterson looked horrible. Ive been saying for years we have no wide players who can defend or attack and this year its the same fucking story and it really pisses me off.

Martina looked lost, Stevanovich showed us why he isnt cutting it in Italy, Borman GAVE the 2nd goal away while Peterson got undressed twice on the first two goals.

This is a serious problem that continues on.

Also, if our starting attacking AM is Oscar Cordon, who played hard but is out of his league right now, we are fucked. Maicon Santos as our captain really really scares me, he is not good enough to start. He is a good sub, but Im worried when he is started AND our captain.

Supporters did a good job last night.

[Pachuco]

Bad, bad game for TFC. It'll happen occasionally though - particularly with the way our roster is currently made up.

I'm not going to go too berserk about it.

- Scott

Honestly, there was only one difference between this game and the LA one. DC was clinical in their finishing were as LA got very very unlucky. I know the end result was different, but this is where I question what people were seeing Wednesday. It was quite obvious that this team played terrible, and it's only more obvious now because of the result. I was as dissapointed on Wednesday though as I am today. I was as dissapointed against Vancouver as I am today.

In my mind, this isn't the ocassional bad game. In my mind we've had 1 good half of football this season and that was in San Jose. The Portland game was a matter of two terrible teams playing each other and the one with home field advantage won it.

I'd also like to address this whole thing about at times looking like the best team we've ever had. I mean, really? Is that what you take from a game like yesterday's? At times this season our defense has looked like the worst we've ever had. Or atleast, as bad as Season 1. Which is crazy considering the pedigree we have in there now. In general though, we don't look good at all so it puzzles me how someone can say statements like those (not pointing at you Shakes). I can tell you at times Preki's team looked like the best we ever had. And at times Cummins and Carver's teams looked like the best we've ever had as well. Pulling out 3 mins of play and bragging about how good we looked in those 3 mins is senseless when we played terrible for most part of the game.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

something about the car crash? ;)

that was a douchebag move for Davies. If he wanted to celebrate with supporters he should have run over to the DC united supporters and waved up to them.

i may have asked if he could still taste the steal and that he was kinda fast for a cripple.

easily the worst game of the season, can only get better from here, better get better from here

[AmherstNY_TFC]

Last night's game was a comparison between a team that has two excellent attacking players up top, and a team that does not. Josh Wolf is a nice veteran presence up top, and Charlie Davis (spastic dancing aside) in an extremely talented young player who was available for 40 cents on the dollar (the kind of player we should be looking for-hint, hint, Mr. Mariner). TFC played Maicon up front on his own. While he's a hard worker, he has a hard time getting away from his mark, and didn't seem to connect with the midfielders at all.

The first goal was well worked. Wolff drew Cann out, and DCU chipped the ball into the open space. DCU player makes the run, BANG! 1-0 down. The second was awful. But, a player like Davies is going to cash in on those mistakes.

By comparison, TFC had a lot of the ball, but couldn't do anything in the attacking third. The midfielders would put the ball through, but nobody would make the right run. Easy turnover, and DCU was off to the races. Until they can consistently break down defenses, matches are going to look a lot like this. It would also help if Winter could figure out what his best 11 is. I think we've had a different lineup each game.

We're still stuck with a bunch of holdovers from the previous regime. I am willing to suck it up this season to give Mariner and Winter time to build the squad in their image. I have said in previous posts that, because of the incompetence of the last four years, TFC is, for all intents and purposes, and expansion team.

There are going to be a lot of matches like this over the season. I am hoping we'll see noticeable improvement when the fall rolls around. It's why we all keep coming back: we hope we'll be rewarded with a winning team.

[Beach_Red]

Honestly though, why is it that these Preki guys are the one's getting playing time over the guys they brought in? It just doens't make sense to me. If it was me, and I really thought Harden, peterson, Gargan...etc were hampering the team, then I'd rather lose with my boys on the field then some leftovers from another coach. So I'm not buying this argument that this is Preki's fault. They've had time to replace them, they've gone out and acquired guys to play those positions, and they still think these Preki guys are the best they have in that position. Frustrating to say the least.

Yes, that's a good question - if these Preki/Mo leftovers aren't part of the future we're building towards - and we're prepared to put up with losses - why aren't the new guys playing?

[torontocelt]

Scoring goals isn't the problem eh?

If we fix our defense, and we aren't putting goals in the other teams' nets, where does that leave us?

Nil Nil draws.

At least when we were scoring we had a chance at rallying from these deficits.

I hope that helps in your future posting endeavours.

Everything is the problem at this point, that much is obvious.

[Glenchen29]

A consistent defensive line up needs to be in place! Peterson is SLOW! Nana should be starting every game! Borman, Cann, Attakora, Eckersley.

Then just put the damn ball in the net!

[torontocelt]

WOW, I'm just watching the post-game interview with Winter.
He seems a sad, sad man, like someone who fully realizes that the present personnel won't cut it, and just that's it for now, shitshow like this will happen every once in awhile with these players.

Christ, if it has taken him three months to realize the current players cant cut it then we are in more trouble than I thought.

[Gazza]

Glad you did too. There is no room for part time supporters on my fucking bus!
:scarf::drum::flare:

I'll take the train, thanks.

[kaos197O]

Martina looked lost, Stevanovich showed us why he isnt cutting it in Italy, Borman GAVE the 2nd goal away while Peterson got undressed twice on the first two goals.

This is a serious problem that continues on.

Also, if our starting attacking AM is Oscar Cordon, who played hard but is out of his league right now, we are fucked. Maicon Santos as our captain really really scares me, he is not good enough to start. He is a good sub, but Im worried when he is started AND our captain.



I highlighted this part for a reason. People are saying that we have attacking options, that our wingers are pure class, a step above.

They have individual skill, ABSOLUTELY, but that's where it seems to stop. You cannot continually run at defenders until you're surrounded by them with no outlet to pass/cross/shoot the ball. Stevo and Martina have done this 3 games in a row. Virtually NO passing to their teammates, but especially when it seems to be the obvious choice at the moment. In part it's because of poor positioning by their fellow teammates(at times) but those times when they have that outlet available, they choose to hog the ball and end up being stifled by the opposition. Cordon even did it twice last night with Santos making a run and being the clear option for us to break in and get a quality shot on. Instead he kept it, tried a cheeky little move and lost it because it was too cheeky. Where is the ALL FOR ONE mentality? It just seems as if there are 11 guys doing their individual best, trying to show their individual skills, and forgetting that there are 10 other guys out there with them.

I don't care about any one individual and how great they are or how talented they are. I care about how they utilize those skills to benefit the TEAM! People need to learn to adjust to their surroundings. That's not happening. I hope in time this will change because it's frustrating as hell to watch and it will end up frustrating the players as well.

I just want to know this one thing!

WHERE IS THE PASSION TO WIN, TO FIGHT FOR EACH OTHER, TO FIGHT FOR THE CREST AND TO FIGHT FOR US? WHERE?

[TFC Cityboy]

We're a couple pieces away. Don't give up on winter. He wants us to be the team we all want, and I think he can get us there.

Keep the faith.

QFT. Too many on here don't have the stomach for the total rebuild needed.
Winter and Mariner have been in place for 3 months. Turning this club around will take a year. We'll have good days and bad. This was undoubtedly a bad one, but keep the faith and we'll get there.

[Pookie]

So hard to read "insightful" comments that relate to removing a player like Gargan from the team as if it would solve all the problems.

Gargan had a strong game vs LA and only came on when the team was down to 10 men. He had nothing to do with 2 goals in 10 minutes.

He's a "utility" or "depth" player that makes a decent sub in the later stages of games. That's what you get for the money you spend on him.

Releasing Gargan doesn't change the score line at all.

[rocker]

I'm more sympathetic to Martina on the question of passing. He receives a ball and has 2-3 guys on him with nobody supporting him. But when he does finally get in the clear he usually puts in a decent cross. Stevanovic holds on to the ball way too long though without looking up to consider his options. This has been dangerous for him, as 3 times this season he's been on the receiving end of bad tackles because he held on to the ball way too long. One of these days he's gonna get a season-ending injury for that. And then when he's open he's screaming and waving for the ball. Double standard with him. Very talented player tho.

[DangerRed]

bet you he wouldn`t leave old trafford if united were down and out
bet you he didn`t turn off the tv today when united were losing

Man, with all due respect, shut the fuck up. You're going after someone for walking out early when the team shits the bed at home 3-0 against one of the worst in the league? You're saying he's not a real fan? Get real. Maybe he should've lit a flare or thrown a beer at a player, because that makes him hardcore?

[Gazza]

That Davis wanker with the electrical tape all over his jersey needs a beercup full of piss off the face.

I would've loved to see the look on his face if some fans decided to hop onto the field and set him straight.

[ManUtd4ever]

Man, with all due respect, shut the fuck up. You're going after someone for walking out early when the team shits the bed at home 3-0 against one of the worst in the league? You're saying he's not a real fan? Get real. Maybe he should've lit a flare or thrown a beer at a player, because that makes him hardcore?

Thanks.

[gcolacci]

Wow, I almost always try to avoid reading these post game speeches and i just again realized why. Some people are moronic. People saying we need to get rid of winter - people saying we need to stop rebuilding - Wow i dont know how you other sane fans do it.

Dont get me wrong i am Pissed, Completely. However 5 games into a season demanding we scrap our plan and start over again. your an idiot.

I go to TFC games to watch my team. Me may not have made the playoffs in the past 4 years, however there are only 4 teams that are satisfied in the part four years - Every other team is still fighting for the same thing as us. A Championship.

Well done by the supporters last night -

[tfc2008]

People saying we need to get rid of winter

I tell you you can put the best coach in the world in Toronto but nobody can make a team from this crab of you play 4-3-3 are something els its really sad and stupped for Winter to try to make a team in Toronto he diserf better

[Sally Mack]

Wow, I almost always try to avoid reading these post game speeches and i just again realized why. Some people are moronic. People saying we need to get rid of winter - people saying we need to stop rebuilding - Wow i dont know how you other sane fans do it.

Dont get me wrong i am Pissed, Completely. However 5 games into a season demanding we scrap our plan and start over again. your an idiot.

I go to TFC games to watch my team. Me may not have made the playoffs in the past 4 years, however there are only 4 teams that are satisfied in the part four years - Every other team is still fighting for the same thing as us. A Championship.

Well done by the supporters last night -

My thoughts exactly.

[Cashcleaner]

I don't care about any one individual and how great they are or how talented they are. I care about how they utilize those skills to benefit the TEAM! People need to learn to adjust to their surroundings. That's not happening. I hope in time this will change because it's frustrating as hell to watch and it will end up frustrating the players as well.

I just want to know this one thing!

WHERE IS THE PASSION TO WIN, TO FIGHT FOR EACH OTHER, TO FIGHT FOR THE CREST AND TO FIGHT FOR US? WHERE?

I'm starting to get the bad feeling that in the eyes of players throughout this league (and perhaps the rest of the soccer world what is knowledgeable of MLS) TFC has become the team to avoid. Let's understand that players, coaches, and managers don't live in bubbles and that just like any other workplace, information is going to be passed around quite readily between these individuals. I'm wondering just what sort of reputation does this club have after four years of existence. It's fairly obvious what a player like DeRo would say when pressed about his time with TFC by his teammates in New York, but I have to wonder about the multitude of other players who have come and gone over the years with less fanfare.

My gut tells me that we aren't looked upon all that favourably. Actually, that's being diplomatic - I think many look at this organization as being inherently poisonous to players and staff, and that they are being told specifically by former teammates and coaches, and their agents to stay away. This could very well explain why we'd had so little luck acquiring the vital high-end players or experienced MLS-knowledgeable managers the club has needed for so many seasons.

I'm interested to see what Winter can do to bring this club around and I think he'll be an improvement over what we've had in the past, but at the same time, I know that at the end of the day, if skilled players don't want to come here because they've been warned about the internal culture of the club, we are always going to find ourselves playing with a distinct disadvantage.

[123 elite]

Wow, I almost always try to avoid reading these post game speeches and i just again realized why. Some people are moronic. People saying we need to get rid of winter - people saying we need to stop rebuilding - Wow i dont know how you other sane fans do it.

Dont get me wrong i am Pissed, Completely. However 5 games into a season demanding we scrap our plan and start over again. your an idiot.

I go to TFC games to watch my team. Me may not have made the playoffs in the past 4 years, however there are only 4 teams that are satisfied in the part four years - Every other team is still fighting for the same thing as us. A Championship.

Well done by the supporters last night -


What is the plan exactly ? Is the 'plan' to run up the wing to the halfway line unsupported then turn round and run back a bit then either hit it back to the keeper or hit a 30 yard pass straight across the backline? Or is 'the plan' to have no midfield either to move the ball from defence or to move it into attack. Or is 'the plan' to have almost no shots on goal.

Because in 4 live games and 2 TV viewings that's all i have seen. Maybe the plan looks a bit different from behind the goal with your shirt off jumping up and down. That must be it. I should move.

[DangerRed]

I'll say one last thing about this shitshow: to all of those who said LA didn't deserve to win on Wednesday, they were a hair away from doing to us what DC did to us last night. All the reasons are the same, all the mistakes were similar and all the same people on our side are responsible.

This is still a horrible, undertalented team. The last thing we should be saying right now is that we should be sacking Winter. The FO should give him the authority and cash needed to sign the missing CAM and a goal-bagging CF. Vancouver's Hassli proves that it's doable without having to sign a Drogba or an Anelka. So let's fucking do it already.

It really doesn't look like we'll be in the playoffs this year, but I think the guys in charge are the best we have had since inception (Chis Cummins, who fell 1 point short of getting us into the playoffs, was also excellent, and if you don't think so, you weren't paying attention).

Onwards and upwards. Looking forward to seeing how Winter prevents Columbus from becoming the third team in a row to pick us apart like cotton candy.

[Roogsy]

Ok. So, aside from laughing at the team's performance and questioning DeRo-less leadership, are you happy with the resources being put into this team?

In light of the pending announcement on Monday about the investment in TFC Academy, I'm curious as to how you would assess their resource investment.

Wouldn't it reason that if you don't want them to rush into fixing it with band aids that you would simply point to these things in your assessments?

Or is it, that you have all the patience in the world as long as they win now?

I am done going back and forth with you Pookie because you setup strawman arguments and rephrase my statements into things they are not. You've been doing it for weeks. You either have comprehension issues or you do it on purpose. Either way, enabling your foolishness is not an exercise I wish to take up my time.

[Jack]

What a shit-show.

By the second half the only thing to do was jump and sing the frustration away. They really ripped us to shreds.

MLS is a joke for not doing anything about players taunting. That kid's lucky all he had thrown at him was beer. Some day a player is going to do that and is going to get a seat thrown in his face or something.

[Whoop]

It's funny in the past TFC would cough up the lead late or lose late now.

This year, it's their starts that suck.

Can't they play football for 90 minutes?

[Whoop]

What a shit-show.

By the second half the only thing to do was jump and sing the frustration away. They really ripped us to shreds.

MLS is a joke for not doing anything about players taunting. That kid's lucky all he had thrown at him was beer. Some day a player is going to do that and is going to get a seat thrown in his face or something.

And to think people were sympathetic to him because he survived a car crash.

[Yohan]

I wanted to rip apart that twat Davies for his Carlton dance taunt, but I was equally disappointed by TFC's response. Holy fuck lads. You're down 2-0, and the opposition is taunting your supporters and can't pick up your game to do something about this?
Fucking horseshit, this lack of mentality to fight.

Thank fuck that it was only DC that ripped apart TFC and taunted us. Imagine if Columbus did the same thing next week

[Razcle]

Protect our house.........'Nuff said.

[Whoop]

Elbow him, go studs up on him... just respond.

[werewolf]

Its not the first time a player has done that. And when has our team ever responded? Peterson looked chummy with him after the match, maybe he got an autograph or changed jerseys or something. Ideally making friends so he can find a new club. It's clear the players aren't going to stick up for us, we have to stand up for ourselves.

[Yohan]

Elbow him, go studs up on him... just respond.
I don't condone deliberately injuring another player, but there are other ways of getting a message across. legit hard tackle usually does the trick.

I use to give players the benefit of doubt, but if they really appreciate the supporters, they would not let Davies celebrate like that and get away with it. Claps and twitter posts are nice, but deeds, not words.

I'm pretty damn sick of being taken for granted

[gcolacci]

What is the plan exactly ? Is the 'plan' to run up the wing to the halfway line unsupported then turn round and run back a bit then either hit it back to the keeper or hit a 30 yard pass straight across the backline? Or is 'the plan' to have no midfield either to move the ball from defence or to move it into attack. Or is 'the plan' to have almost no shots on goal.

Because in 4 live games and 2 TV viewings that's all i have seen. Maybe the plan looks a bit different from behind the goal with your shirt off jumping up and down. That must be it. I should move.

First off - I do not sit behind the NET, nor do i take my shirts off. I am not talking about being a Fan like that. I am talking about being a Fan who is willing to believe. Isnt that the meaning of being a Fan? Believing. I go to the game the same reason today as i did five years ago. I believe that something will happen.

Question: Did anyone expect to win the MLS cup in our first 4 seasons? I know i didnt.

Winter inherited a Crap team - And with all the MLS restictions we are trying to field a better team. I actually do see a plan. However plans take time.

I guess the biggest difference between me and you is belief.

I believe.

There is a sign on the West side of the stadium that reads "if you never stop trying, we will never stop believing. TFC till i die" - That is the definition of a fan.

If you hate it so much, Pack your bags.

[Cashcleaner]

First off - I do not sit behind the NET, nor do i take my shirts off. I am not talking about being a Fan like that. I am talking about being a Fan who is willing to believe. Isnt that the meaning of being a Fan? Believing. I go to the game the same reason today as i did five years ago. I believe that something will happen.

Question: Did anyone expect to win the MLS cup in our first 4 seasons? I know i didnt.

Winter inherited a Crap team - And with all the MLS restrictions we are trying to field a better team. I actually do see a plan. However plans take time.

I guess the biggest difference between me and you is belief.

I believe.

There is a sign on the West side of the stadium that reads "if you never stop trying, we will never stop believing. TFC till i die" - That is the definition of a fan.

If you hate it so much, Pack your bags.

Highlighted the obvious modifier. When players, coaches, or the organization as a whole give up, why should they get a free pass while the fans and supporters convince themselves to point fingers at each other? I completely agree what you're remark, but that's the thing - I agree with all of it, not just the part that is most convenient to my argument.

It certainly looks at times that some on the roster have stopped trying, therefore, is it really of any surprise that people are becoming more cynical with the club?

[Beach_Red]

Question: Did anyone expect to win the MLS cup in our first 4 seasons? I know i didnt.

If you hate it so much, Pack your bags.

Yes, I expected the team to be in the playoffs and a legitimate cup contender in four years - plenty of MLS teams have done that.

I did give up my seasons tickets and I think that went a long way to MLSE hiring a consultant and bringing in a coach and a GM (with MLS experience), something I don't think they would have done if ticket sales had remained strong.

[2mil4dero+santo]

Yes, that's a good question - if these Preki/Mo leftovers aren't part of the future we're building towards - and we're prepared to put up with losses - why aren't the new guys playing?

because this is our rebuilding plan:
1) sign new players
2) keep playing our worst defenders, hell even play midfielders as defenders
3) keep all the new guys who "fit the system" on the bench so they don't get injured and they can observe how NOT to play the system. This way we can build something next season

[torontocelt]

because this is our rebuilding plan:
1) sign new players
2) keep playing our worst defenders, hell even play midfielders as defenders
3) keep all the new guys who "fit the system" on the bench so they don't get injured and they can observe how NOT to play the system. This way we can build something next season

some funny observations, especially number 3.

[Yohan]

because this is our rebuilding plan:
1) sign new players
2) keep playing our worst defenders, hell even play midfielders as defenders
3) keep all the new guys who "fit the system" on the bench so they don't get injured and they can observe how NOT to play the system. This way we can build something next season
not easy to just release players like it was in the past, all players 24 yrs old or older with at least of 3 yrs of MLS get guaranteed salary

people keep forgetting about this. it's not easy to get yourself a new team like it was in the past

[2mil4dero+santo]

not easy to just release players like it was in the past, all players 24 yrs old or older with at least of 3 yrs of MLS get guaranteed salary

people keep forgetting about this. it's not easy to get yourself a new team like it was in the past

I'm not forgetting anything. We're not talking about signing players, we're talking about playing the guys that Winter and Mariner already signed.

What the hell that has to do with releasing players and stupid guaranteed contracts?!

[TFCRegina]

not easy to just release players like it was in the past, all players 24 yrs old or older with at least of 3 yrs of MLS get guaranteed salary

people keep forgetting about this. it's not easy to get yourself a new team like it was in the past

Not only that but TFC is picking up chunks of De Ro's and Barrett's salaries. So that means we have limited cap space. It'll be next year before anything opens up.

[denime]

Guys , agree,disagree and rant as much as you want,but make sure you are not insulting other posters.

We are all frustrated and everyone reacts differently, but one thing is for sure,you will be banned if you insult other poster.

Keep healthy discussion going and enjoy rest of the weekend if you can.

[Yohan]

I'm not forgetting anything. We're not talking about signing players, we're talking about playing the guys that Winter and Mariner already signed.

What the hell that has to do with releasing players and stupid guaranteed contracts?!
harder to sign new players with roster spot/int spot and salary cap limitations

sorry. it was meant to be a more generalized post, not specific to your own post. people keep saying scrap the entire team and start again

[billyfly]

So next time we are all friendly with Barra Brava, can we ask them to talk to Davies for us?

[2mil4dero+santo]

harder to sign new players with roster spot/int spot and salary cap limitations

sorry. it was meant to be a more generalized post, not specific to your own post. people keep saying scrap the entire team and start again

i dont see anyone saying scrap the entire team and start again. we are just questioning the wisdom (or sanity) of winters choice of backline from our current roster of players.

I'm all for giving Winter time to build something here and think we need some stability.

However, I don't think anyone can be criticized for wondering what the hell he's thinking with his squad selections. They are ming-boggling to say the least and wreak of politics and ego.

[Nuvinho]

We need Benny Feilhaber for our attack. For our defense, that will have to wait til the summer transfer window

[2mil4dero+santo]

We need Benny Feilhaber for our attack. For our defense, that will have to wait til the summer transfer window

Any news on Feilhaber I thought he's going to another team?

[2mil4dero+santo]

I DO agree with:

1. Throwing beer
2. Leaving early
3. smoke bombs
4. flares

But if there ever was a game appropriate for all of the above; today was it. Well done 112 and 113.

fixed lol...

[2mil4dero+santo]

So next time we are all friendly with Barra Brava, can we ask them to talk to Davies for us?

one thing I can guarantee if a player did that in front of Barra Brava they would not be talking about singing Tom Petty songs the next day.

[2mil4dero+santo]

People saying we need to get rid of winter

I tell you you can put the best coach in the world in Toronto but nobody can make a team from this crab of you play 4-3-3 are something els its really sad and stupped for Winter to try to make a team in Toronto he diserf better

you know what, I see people writing this all the time.

However, I never actually see any of these posts of these supposed people wanting to get rid of Winter. Never. Are you maybe reading into something the wrong way?

[Nuvinho]

Any news on Feilhaber I thought he's going to another team?

Chivas may not want him, but could trade him. Philly is out. Now its up to Houston, then New England, then TFC gets the opportunity.

[Gazza]

one thing I can guarantee if a player did that in front of Barra Brava they would not be talking about singing Tom Petty songs the next day.

Down 3-0 with Davies still on the field, someone should've taken the red and the 1 game suspension to prove a point.

No that's not classless, it's sports. You do not allow someone to embarrass you and your fans like that. In most leagues, if a knob does that to the other team's supporter's end, he's automatically suspended and fined.

[tiberius]

...are you happy with the resources being put into this team?


As stated earlier in this thread - the only part of this franchise that showed up last night were the fans - the supporters groups in particular did their part and then some... For such a crappy day/night and with the way the team has been going, I was pleasantly surprised by the number of casual fans that showed up!

What resources are being spent on the fans? The supporters? The game goer experience? Nothing... less than nothing - since the Season ticket holder debacle last fall - what has been the response for fans and supporters? Nada. (other than ooops we're sorry, and blah, blah, blah) Who the hell in their organization is truly working on this relationship? Some marketing airhead? They need a vice-president of fan support with a big budget and some influence.

They are working on other parts of the franchise (management, academy, players etc.) - and that will procede over the course of this year and next... the issue is that their fantastic fan base will be in tatters, beyond repair, and what little love that is left for the team will have dried up and blown away...

It isn't rocket science to see what Seattle and Vancouver have done to reward their fans, in so many ways... They understand the value of nurturing a great relationship with their fans, supporters and their city... win or lose that relationship will remain intact because the club has made significant efforts, and showed it monetarily upon their fanbase. Toronto FC has DONE NOTHING IN FIVE YEARS! They have only taken economic advantage of a strong and enthusiastic fan base, and everyone knows it!

The head in the sand approach of Toronto Fc and MLSE that when TFC starts to win, the "fan problem" will go away is shortsighted and will lead the club into oblivion - Can we all say... Toronto Blizzard?

[werewolf]

Down 3-0 with Davies still on the field, someone should've taken the red and the 1 game suspension to prove a point.

No that's not classless, it's sports. You do not allow someone to embarrass you and your fans like that. In most leagues, if a knob does that to the other team's supporter's end, he's automatically suspended and fined.

That requires players that show heart and act, instead of just lip service.

Any reputable league would send him a letter informing him that behavior like that is unacceptable. Imagine if he did that in England, even the Police would be having a word with him.

[2mil4dero+santo]

Chivas may not want him, but could trade him. Philly is out. Now its up to Houston, then New England, then TFC gets the opportunity.

Do you know when the deadline is to sign him to a team?

[Nuvinho]

Do you know when the deadline is to sign him to a team?

I think they have until tuesday to decide whether to use it on him or not.

[morgank1986]

First off - I do not sit behind the NET, nor do i take my shirts off. I am not talking about being a Fan like that. I am talking about being a Fan who is willing to believe. Isnt that the meaning of being a Fan? Believing. I go to the game the same reason today as i did five years ago. I believe that something will happen.

Question: Did anyone expect to win the MLS cup in our first 4 seasons? I know i didnt.

Winter inherited a Crap team - And with all the MLS restictions we are trying to field a better team. I actually do see a plan. However plans take time.

I guess the biggest difference between me and you is belief.

I believe.

There is a sign on the West side of the stadium that reads "if you never stop trying, we will never stop believing. TFC till i die" - That is the definition of a fan.

If you hate it so much, Pack your bags.

^ This. I do sit right behind the net though.

[tiberius]

That requires players that show heart and act, instead of just lip service.

Any reputable league would send him a letter informing him that behavior like that is unacceptable. Imagine if he did that in England, even the Police would be having a word with him.

Lets protect Douchebag Davies by hiring the Police goons who were used to protect the Chilean players during the U20 World Cup in Toronto - You may recall these bozos beat the daylights out of the Chilean players:hump:

[2mil4dero+santo]

First off - I do not sit behind the NET, nor do i take my shirts off. I am not talking about being a Fan like that. I am talking about being a Fan who is willing to believe. Isnt that the meaning of being a Fan? Believing. I go to the game the same reason today as i did five years ago. I believe that something will happen.

Question: Did anyone expect to win the MLS cup in our first 4 seasons? I know i didnt.

Winter inherited a Crap team - And with all the MLS restictions we are trying to field a better team. I actually do see a plan. However plans take time.

I guess the biggest difference between me and you is belief.

I believe.

There is a sign on the West side of the stadium that reads "if you never stop trying, we will never stop believing. TFC till i die" - That is the definition of a fan.

If you hate it so much, Pack your bags.

If what we are trying, is to be the suckiest team in the league, then I will never stop believing and am tfc's biggest fan.

[gcolacci]

you know what, I see people writing this all the time.

However, I never actually see any of these posts of these supposed people wanting to get rid of Winter. Never. Are you maybe reading into something the wrong way?

Reading this wrong?

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=27689

[2mil4dero+santo]

Reading this wrong?

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=27689

No where does the poster say or imply that winter should be fired.

[Whoop]

That requires players that show heart and act, instead of just lip service.

Any reputable league would send him a letter informing him that behavior like that is unacceptable. Imagine if he did that in England, even the Police would be having a word with him.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/23/article-1268344-066746F6000005DC-450_468x307.jpg

[Gazza]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/23/article-1268344-066746F6000005DC-450_468x307.jpg

That's what it reminded me of, to a lesser extent of course. I think the police got involved right after the game.

But in american sports, that type of behaviour is condoned.

[123 elite]

First off - I do not sit behind the NET, nor do i take my shirts off. I am not talking about being a Fan like that. I am talking about being a Fan who is willing to believe. Isnt that the meaning of being a Fan? Believing. I go to the game the same reason today as i did five years ago. I believe that something will happen.

Question: Did anyone expect to win the MLS cup in our first 4 seasons? I know i didnt.

Winter inherited a Crap team - And with all the MLS restictions we are trying to field a better team. I actually do see a plan. However plans take time.

I guess the biggest difference between me and you is belief.

I believe.

There is a sign on the West side of the stadium that reads "if you never stop trying, we will never stop believing. TFC till i die" - That is the definition of a fan.

If you hate it so much, Pack your bags.



I don't hate it. I just don't believe it. I also don't think last years team were a crap team either. Remember that photo someone posted of a goal celebration saying 'this looks like a team now' I remember most people agreeing. i think it was 4-1 Chcago game. Now we have replaced half the team with a bunch of strangers just like we did the year before and the year before that. We are not any better either individually or as a team. Most of the players we kept from last year weren't exactly the ones making the team click. Except Frei. Cann and Nana are shadows of their former selves. And the rest (JDG included) are no better than last year. I don't see a system or a plan to believe in.

[Alonso]

What resources are being spent on the fans? The supporters? The game goer experience? Nothing... less than nothing - since the Season ticket holder debacle last fall - what has been the response for fans and supporters? Nada. (other than ooops we're sorry, and blah, blah, blah) Who the hell in their organization is truly working on this relationship? Some marketing airhead? They need a vice-president of fan support with a big budget and some influence.

The head in the sand approach of Toronto Fc and MLSE that when TFC starts to win, the "fan problem" will go away is shortsighted and will lead the club into oblivion - Can we all say... Toronto Blizzard?


Amen to all this... Seattle gets embarassed at home and the fans get a refund. Vancouver gets a great friendly match versus ManCity and doesn't rape its supporters with $120 tickets per seat, actually they don't make a dime off of them and gives it to them for free! Other teams subsidize away support as a thank you to their supporters.

What does ML$E do? NOTHING but raise prices and take the season ticket holder for granted. I really hope they wake up, and take this season to start a new relationship with the supporters. One not based on 2 faced talk, and one in which they genuinely try to listen to our concerns and legitimate solutions to this sinking ship. And I'm not talking about the onfield solutions, just the ones that they have direct control over concerning the stadium, pricing, player support/treatment, etc. etc. etc.

[billyfly]

one thing I can guarantee if a player did that in front of Barra Brava they would not be talking about singing Tom Petty songs the next day.

My point is that sometimes I think "we" are too friendly with other supporters groups. What do you think those guys did when they say Davies do that?

They laughed just like we would if Santos did that to Columbus and if we won 3-0.

[Auzzy]

I agree that SSH's and supporters groups have not been treated well by TFC (other than some belated nuggets thrown our way, only when forced, when renewals were tanking at the end of last season).

However, Vancouver has specifically screwed & pissed off their supporters groups. Maybe that's one reason their Manchester City game is free. Although even that is for all season ticket holders; maybe they just don't care about supporters groups.

[Shakes McQueen]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/04/23/article-1268344-066746F6000005DC-450_468x307.jpg

I think he got a fat suspension for that, too.

- Scott

[Yohan]

Did MLS FO fine that SJ twat who taunted NEE few years ago? I can't recall

[Davenport]

As stated earlier in this thread - the only part of this franchise that showed up last night were the fans - the supporters groups in particular did their part and then some... For such a crappy day/night and with the way the team has been going, I was pleasantly surprised by the number of casual fans that showed up!

What resources are being spent on the fans? The supporters? The game goer experience? Nothing... less than nothing - since the Season ticket holder debacle last fall - what has been the response for fans and supporters? Nada. (other than ooops we're sorry, and blah, blah, blah) Who the hell in their organization is truly working on this relationship? Some marketing airhead? They need a vice-president of fan support with a big budget and some influence.

They are working on other parts of the franchise (management, academy, players etc.) - and that will procede over the course of this year and next... the issue is that their fantastic fan base will be in tatters, beyond repair, and what little love that is left for the team will have dried up and blown away...

It isn't rocket science to see what Seattle and Vancouver have done to reward their fans, in so many ways... They understand the value of nurturing a great relationship with their fans, supporters and their city... win or lose that relationship will remain intact because the club has made significant efforts, and showed it monetarily upon their fanbase. Toronto FC has DONE NOTHING IN FIVE YEARS! They have only taken economic advantage of a strong and enthusiastic fan base, and everyone knows it!

The head in the sand approach of Toronto Fc and MLSE that when TFC starts to win, the "fan problem" will go away is shortsighted and will lead the club into oblivion - Can we all say... Toronto Blizzard?

Well said.

[pekduck]

Did MLS FO fine that SJ twat who taunted NEE few years ago? I can't recall

1 game suspension imposed by disciplinary committee after review

edit: here is the link and criteria for suspension decision

http://www.mlssoccer.com/mls-disciplinary-summary

[jazzy]

Down 3-0 with Davies still on the field, someone should've taken the red and the 1 game suspension to prove a point.

No that's not classless, it's sports. You do not allow someone to embarrass you and your fans like that. In most leagues, if a knob does that to the other team's supporter's end, he's automatically suspended and fined.

Davies ran right toward us ....laughin at us after the goal,....fook can see how some go unbalanced with that shit................even attemp that in Eng and yellow,......pretty demoralizing ......not sure how but that should be addressed

[Whoop]

Just noticed that Columbus hasn't allowed a goal in their last four matches.

Could mean trouble come Saturday.

[Azerban]

My point is that sometimes I think "we" are too friendly with other supporters groups. What do you think those guys did when they say Davies do that?

They laughed just like we would if Santos did that to Columbus and if we won 3-0.

they should laugh at us, it's not their fault our back line is sad as fuck

doesn't mean you can't talk to them like normal human beings

[jazzy]

Lets protect Douchebag Davies by hiring the Police goons who were used to protect the Chilean players during the U20 World Cup in Toronto - You may recall these bozos beat the daylights out of the Chilean players:hump:

..... this after they spit at the woman officer....................they were treated with kid gloves and then lied like rats after crapping on Canada,....sorry not in my lifetime

[tiberius]

Davies ran right toward us ....laughin at us after the goal,....fook can see how some go unbalanced with that shit................even attemp that in Eng and yellow,......pretty demoralizing ......not sure how but that should be addressed

What is the difference between Toronto FC players and Toronto FC fans?

Answer: If Charlie Davies tried to do his little dance in the stands, we will take care of business... no one doubts that. On the other hand when he does it on the field, Toronto FC players (and coach) don't have a clue what to do....

Where the hell is Todd Bertuzzi when you need him?? Or even, gulp... Martin Šarić!

Charlie Davies little dance was no insult to the supporters - it was a direct in-your-face mf to the Toronto FC players - and they all stood and took it. Man up Toronto FC players - you look like wusses.

[denime]

Lets protect Douchebag Davies by hiring the Police goons who were used to protect the Chilean players during the U20 World Cup in Toronto - You may recall these bozos beat the daylights out of the Chilean players:hump:
Those bozos were doing their job,and unfortunately they failed, they did not beat them good enough to teach them the life lesson not to spit at police officer ever again.If that happend in some other country than Canada those players would me arrested and charged.I just wished Montreal police :smash::smash: was in that bus instead of TO softies.

[tiberius]

..... this after they spit at the woman officer....................they were treated with kid gloves and then lied like rats after crapping on Canada,....sorry not in my lifetime

Ah - we digress, but what the heck - The Chilean player went to be with fans at the baricade and the security jumped him because the player ignored them - then all hell broke loose. The kid gloves and the women officer are in some pipe dream you had... The violent overreaction happened in your lifetime - bloody embarrassing at a World Cup event - the security and police could have handled it without violence, but they chose otherwise... I think I saw Officer Bubbles there too... but of course officer bubbles wasn't in your lifetime either, I suppose...

[Whoop]

Just noticed that Columbus hasn't allowed a goal in their last four matches.

Could mean trouble come Saturday.

Just a reminder...

[prizby]

Those bozos were doing their job,and unfortunately they failed, they did not beat them good enough to teach them the life lesson not to spit at police officer ever again.If that happend in some other country than Canada those players would me arrested and charged.I just wished Montreal police :smash::smash: was in that bus instead of TO softies.

i do believe the whole thing was instigated when the police wouldn't allow the Chiliean players to give autographs to the Chiliean fans waiting at the security gate

although it can also be argued that Wolfgang Stark might have been the instigator in this...

[Macksam]

Nope!
Wide a fuckingwake son!
Let's have a look at this post.
And I will be nice 'cause I am nice!

1. This team is a revolving door with no brake/regulator.
Disagree?
2. Who the fuck has Winter got to pick from?
3. The MLSE, at the end of the day, will decide on any expenditures.

You know these fucking, fucks have to have a meeting to get the brand of toilet paper changed. 3 fucking weeks.
How long do you think it would take these fuckwads to decide on paying a worthwhile player his due?
KD.
lol, that was awesome.

Everytime MLSE crosses my mind, my blood boils to the point of hot coffee. I've said this before and I must say it again. A bunch of us need to go off into MLSE's headquarters at the ACC with water soaked leather straps and work these suits over until they feel the pain they have inflicted on all the sports fans in this great city.

[LesH]

Honestly, there was only one difference between this game and the LA one. DC was clinical in their finishing were as LA got very very unlucky. I know the end result was different, but this is where I question what people were seeing Wednesday. It was quite obvious that this team played terrible, and it's only more obvious now because of the result. I was as dissapointed on Wednesday though as I am today. I was as dissapointed against Vancouver as I am today.

In my mind, this isn't the ocassional bad game. In my mind we've had 1 good half of football this season and that was in San Jose. The Portland game was a matter of two terrible teams playing each other and the one with home field advantage won it.

I'd also like to address this whole thing about at times looking like the best team we've ever had. I mean, really? Is that what you take from a game like yesterday's? At times this season our defense has looked like the worst we've ever had. Or atleast, as bad as Season 1. Which is crazy considering the pedigree we have in there now. In general though, we don't look good at all so it puzzles me how someone can say statements like those (not pointing at you Shakes). I can tell you at times Preki's team looked like the best we ever had. And at times Cummins and Carver's teams looked like the best we've ever had as well. Pulling out 3 mins of play and bragging about how good we looked in those 3 mins is senseless when we played terrible for most part of the game.

I agree 100% with everything said here.

Guys, I know it's hard, but let's try to be as objective as possible!

[billyfly]

they should laugh at us, it's not their fault our back line is sad as fuck

doesn't mean you can't talk to them like normal human beings

To be honest in an official setting where all supporters groups are working towards some common goal - yes.

Drinking and laughing with them outside of that context - NO.

[Hamilton_Red]

re...the post goal taunting from the DC players....... Could you imagine a Celtic or Rangers player did that to the opposing crowd? There would be a riot that would last days. The players didn't even go over and let hem know what they thought of that. No spirit...no leadership...no talent.

[bgnewf]

TFC v DC United Video Blog

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/04/tfc-v-dc-united-video-blog/

My latest post game video blog after the loss to DC United on Saturday April 16th. Comments always welcome and appreciated.

[Hamilton_Red]

What is the plan exactly ? Is the 'plan' to run up the wing to the halfway line unsupported then turn round and run back a bit then either hit it back to the keeper or hit a 30 yard pass straight across the backline? Or is 'the plan' to have no midfield either to move the ball from defence or to move it into attack. Or is 'the plan' to have almost no shots on goal.

Because in 4 live games and 2 TV viewings that's all i have seen. Maybe the plan looks a bit different from behind the goal with your shirt off jumping up and down. That must be it. I should move.

Exactly - I haven't seen any evidence of a plan...or a system for that matter. I could go and ask my U14 team to play total football...i'd get the same result.

[ag futbol]

re...the post goal taunting from the DC players....... Could you imagine a Celtic or Rangers player did that to the opposing crowd? There would be a riot that would last days. The players didn't even go over and let hem know what they thought of that. No spirit...no leadership...no talent.
Context is everything. DCU vs. TFC in a half full stadium is not celtic rangers. Bottom line: he shouldn't be coming over there, we don't have to like it but it doesn't justify going ape-shit.

I think someone made the comment about 8 pages back about Winter favoring preki guys over his own signings. Worrying to say the least. In this league you'll sink or swim with your signings, if guys like yourassowki and Williams can't step in for the players we have starting now: we're sunk.

[trane]

I am not worried.

Lets see how the new defender fits in. Lets judge all of this ten games in.

[trane]

I will say this, we need a CF bad, and Harden is no CB.

[SCF1908]

TFC v DC United Video Blog

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/04/tfc-v-dc-united-video-blog/

My latest post game video blog after the loss to DC United on Saturday April 16th. Comments always welcome and appreciated.


Since you are so quick to accuse others of being part time fans I am going to be a part time fan and choose not to watch ten minutes of video from someone who isn't qualified as a journalist.

[Menelaos]

real TFC fans stay until the end

Sorry Prisby, but I've always felt people with this opinion are just plain stupid.

I stay because I want to stay until the end, but to state that someone that leaves before the final whistel is not a 'real' fan is just stupid.

Give it up, it really is a riddiculous argument and those with that opinion are better off keeping it to themselves in order to avoid looking like they should be in a room with padded walls.

[Azerban]

To be honest in an official setting where all supporters groups are working towards some common goal - yes.

Drinking and laughing with them outside of that context - NO.

to each their own; you reap what you sow, though

[Belfast_Boy]

I think that might be the worst game i've been to.
at one point I started to miss Garcia.
i can't remember one creative run.
there was more ball watching than at a gay strip bar!

[Roogsy]

Sorry Prisby, but I've always felt people with this opinion are just plain stupid.

I stay because I want to stay until the end, but to state that someone that leaves before the final whistel is not a 'real' fan is just stupid.

Give it up, it really is a riddiculous argument and those with that opinion are better off keeping it to themselves in order to avoid looking like they should be in a room with padded walls.

Agreed.

I have always stayed until the end but that is a personal choice. I am not there to judge the individual choices of others. I don't know their circumstances. And considering how unhappy I have been with this team this year, I can certainly understand one of many reasons why people would want to leave.

[trane]

^ I knew this would come up, I started leaving, to get a jump on traffic at the 90, and I thought to myself " I am not a good supporter", but lets get real 3-0 , 2 minutes left, one man down, the game is over.

Why not get a jump on traffic?

By the way I sat on the sidlines and I have to say that the players were playing hard untill the end, people made comments that they did not show up, but from seeing their faces from up close, they were playing hard. JDG in particular. Stevanovic clearly hurt himself on that missed bicycle kick, so he slowed right down.

[DangerRed]

I am not worried.

Lets see how the new defender fits in. Lets judge all of this ten games in.

Ten games in? OK -- we can do that right now. We've played six games. We are third last. The two teams below us have two games in hand on us. Each.

Our opposition for the next four games is, chronologically: Columbus (home), Seattle (away), Houston Dynamo (home) and FC Dallas (away).

We've never beaten Columbus before, but they're shaky so maybe we can get a draw here. Seattle whooped us bad (4-1, I think) last we played them in Seattle. Houston is also shaky, but they spanked us in the pre-season. FC Dallas were MLS Cup finalists last year.

Which of those four are you expecting us to win, exactly?

Best case to me is 10 points (or a little more) following the first 10 games.

You worried yet?

[trane]

^ No. At this point it is not so much about record, but the question will be how are we looking 10 games in, are we showing sings of improving, for me it is about what is happening on the pitch, our team play, not results.

I do not give a shit about beating these teams at this time, I give a shit about us improving our play, so that we can win going forward for a long, long time.

By the way any MLS team is beatable on any day, it is only a good question of who is more shit. I want us to get beyong that to be a trully good side, by any standard.

[DangerRed]

^ No. At this point it is not so much about record, but the question will be how are we looking 10 games in, are we showing sings of improving, for me it is about what is happening on the pitch, our team play, not results.

I do not give a shit about beating these teams at this time, I give a shit about us improving our play, so that we can win going forward for a long, long time.

By the way any MLS team is beatable on any day, it is only a good question of who is more shit. I want us to get beyong that to be a trully good side, by any standard.

Hate to break it to you, but results are why games are played in this league. We've conceded the second most goals of any MLS team so far this season and Winter has switched the back line four or five times so far and thinks Peterson is a good defender.

This team is just as horribly undertalented and disorganized as it was at the start of the season. I applaud your optimism, but I'm not sure what you think is going to change in the next four games to show you the "signs of improvement" you're looking for.

[trane]

^ I am not being optimistic, I know this team has been shit, and I have called it that many times. But because we are shit, we need to learn to play, so that we can get results not for a game or a run of games, or one season, but so that we can be a trully good club, a dominant club in this league going forward.

I look for signs of improvement on the pitch, better passing, better marking, keeping shape, possession, ect, ect, ecet, you get your game together, eventualy we start winning. I was one of the first to call this team and the FO full of shit, in the first four years of this club, now that we are seemingly in the right direction, I will allow for some time for us to become a proper footy team.

[bgnewf]

Since you are so quick to accuse others of being part time fans I am going to be a part time fan and choose not to watch ten minutes of video from someone who isn't qualified as a journalist.

Who ever said I was a journalist? Grow a thicker skin.... jeez

:picard:

[gino12]

Raincoat, Brasil raincoat, anyone?

[Walnut]

This whole Toronto FC thing is turning into an obvious scam. With MLSE up for sale, the chances of cash becoming available from the current owners for the injection of desperately needed talent are highly unlikely. The graduation of so many academy players is certainly proof of this -- and the failure of the organization to come to terms with De Ro further highlights the fact that there is no money.

The publicity of the Klinsman joke, and the constant calls for patience serve the purpose solely of protecting cash flow. The club has no intention of getting better this year - we have what we have and any improvement will come from budget transfer moves for loan players and existing players improving.

Every utterance from the organization is designed to keep the stadium packed so they can sell beer and hotdogs -- and that is why this is a scam!

Sitting through 90-minutes of utterly awful football in the wind and cold this last weekend was truly heart breaking. We are paying to be fed bullshit, and to watch a team play(?) that is very bad with little hope of improving. All of this is propped up by a weak / new manager who should be screaming for money and players -- but will not, and prefers to tow the company line and ask for patience.

[Oldtimer]

^ Talk about negative. This smells almost like troll material.

[rocker]

We are paying to be fed bullshit

You chose to buy the tickets..... I hear this complaint after every season, yet people keep buying the tickets and then keep complaining about paying for bullshit. At some point ya gotta stop buying, my friend.

[denime]

Sitting through 90-minutes You are sitting ?:facepalm:

No wonder you feel scammed,those prawn sandwiches were from last month and they sold it you for fresh ones. :D

[billyfly]

My heated 2 cents:

I stay b/c I am from Toronto.

I stay b/c I feel that the badge represents me and my roots.

"to each his own" as they say, but it is also said "this is my badge, this is my home".

Anyone who dares fuck with this will reap what they sowed.

[menefreghista]

This whole Toronto FC thing is turning into an obvious scam. With MLSE up for sale, the chances of cash becoming available from the current owners for the injection of desperately needed talent are highly unlikely. The graduation of so many academy players is certainly proof of this -- and the failure of the organization to come to terms with De Ro further highlights the fact that there is no money.

The publicity of the Klinsman joke, and the constant calls for patience serve the purpose solely of protecting cash flow. The club has no intention of getting better this year - we have what we have and any improvement will come from budget transfer moves for loan players and existing players improving.

Every utterance from the organization is designed to keep the stadium packed so they can sell beer and hotdogs -- and that is why this is a scam!

Sitting through 90-minutes of utterly awful football in the wind and cold this last weekend was truly heart breaking. We are paying to be fed bullshit, and to watch a team play(?) that is very bad with little hope of improving. All of this is propped up by a weak / new manager who should be screaming for money and players -- but will not, and prefers to tow the company line and ask for patience.

I think you might be on to something with the team budget being cut back.

It will be interesting to see if they sign one or two DP players in the summer transfer window.

Of course by that time the OTPP shares may be sold and they might want to spend some money to make up for attendance deceases and a possible poor season ticket renewal.

[Walnut]

It will be interesting to see if they sign one or two DP players in the summer transfer window.

From what Winter said on The Soccer show last week - it seems as though any DP moves are not going to happen. I think they will be looking for loan deals and out of contract players (at the end of their career) from the European transfer market.

[Gazza]

You are sitting ?:facepalm:

No wonder you feel scammed,those prawn sandwiches were from last month and they sold it you for fresh ones. :D

The only time i stood up was to throw my prawn and cucumber sanny at Charlie Davies. What a waste of 20 bucks that was!

[Walnut]

You are sitting ?:facepalm:

Standing in the section I am in results in warnings and then ejection from the game.

[Beach_Red]

I think you might be on to something with the team budget being cut back.

It will be interesting to see if they sign one or two DP players in the summer transfer window.

Of course by that time the OTPP shares may be sold and they might want to spend some money to make up for attendance deceases and a possible poor season ticket renewal.


The operating budget is an intersting issue, but do you have any idea what it's been year-by-year and how tightly it's been controlled? Sure, the company is for sale, but is there any reason to believe that something as small as TFC's operating budget would be affected?

We should have been a lot more upset about the operating budget the first three seasons but that's not really an issue now.

[Walnut]

The operating budget is an intersting issue, but do you have any idea what it's been year-by-year and how tightly it's been controlled? Sure, the company is for sale, but is there any reason to believe that something as small as TFC's operating budget would be affected?

We should have been a lot more upset about the operating budget the first three seasons but that's not really an issue now.

If your house is up for sale, would you put a swimming pool in...???

[ManUtd4ever]

^^ Well, the fact remains that TFC can still spend up to the limits of the cap, and after the DeRo trade, there should be enough cap space available to add a quality AM, pending roster compliance issues and the release of an existing player.

[Beach_Red]

^ Yeah, he probably meant other expenses besides the salary cap, like a DP. It's possible that a DP expense will be approved if a good enough deal comes along. Yes, Mariner will probably have to make a good case for spending the money, but that was likely the situation before the company was put up for sale.

Otherwise there aren't really any addition expenses - the place is finally fully staffed, there's grass and so on.

And besides, lots of people do pay for "staging" when putting their house up for sale. It's just that TFC is such a small part of MLSE it's unlikely the budget that was approved before the season will change.

[SCF1908]

Who ever said I was a journalist? Grow a thicker skin.... jeez

:picard:


So a part time journalist?

Ewwww.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Whoop]

Football is a funny game sometimes.

According to Opta, Philadelphia has averaged the fewest shots per game out of any MLS side, yet they are in first.

[trane]

^ Quality shots, are key.


Santos, took two half opportunites that under Dichio would have turned into two decent shots on net, OR two passess to runners coming into the box, but made two usless field goals. Had they been on net, they would have been chances, but skying them is of little utility.

[Gazza]

^ Quality shots, are key.


Santos, took two half opportunites that under Dichio would have turned into two decent shots on net, OR two passess to runners coming into the box, but made two usless field goals. Had they been on net, they would have been chances, but skying them is of little utility.

Santos can create his own chances, Dichio couldn't really. But i get your point...if Santos had Dichio's touch and eye for the net, he'd be up near the top of the league in scoring every year.

[DangerRed]

Santos can create his own chances, Dichio couldn't really. But i get your point...if Santos had Dichio's touch and eye for the net, he'd be up near the top of the league in scoring every year.

And he probably wouldn't be playing for TFC, either.

[trane]

Santos can create his own chances, Dichio couldn't really. But i get your point...if Santos had Dichio's touch and eye for the net, he'd be up near the top of the league in scoring every year.


Agree. To be clear I was ussing Dichio as an illustration, to illustrate that there are shots and shots. The two by Santos, were not only not real chances, but not even close to being chances at the end of it all.

[ensco]

Santos can create his own chances, Dichio couldn't really. But i get your point...if Santos had Dichio's touch and eye for the net, he'd be up near the top of the league in scoring every year.

What? I can think of at least 7 Dichio goals that he created out of nothing.

[Walnut]

Santos can create his own chances, Dichio couldn't really. But i get your point...if Santos had Dichio's touch and eye for the net, he'd be up near the top of the league in scoring every year.

Danny had 15 goals in 59 appearances for TFC, and Santos has 5 goals in 18 appearances. Their scoring ratio is almost identical -- 1 in 4 (give or take).

Neither was or is going to light the world on fire.

[trane]

What? I can think of at least 7 Dichio goals that he created out of nothing.

I was thinking about it, last night, I understand what Gazza was saying in that Dichio was not mobile, but he created changes with his positioning and physicality.

[trane]

Danny had 15 goals in 59 appearances for TFC, and Santos has 5 goals in 18 appearances. Their scoring ratio is almost identical -- 1 in 4 (give or take).

Neither was or is going to light the world on fire.

That is not a apples to apples comaprison. Many of Danny's apperances were not full games. Dichio was much better as a complete target man CF, and a scoring threat. Santos simply does not have that touch and nose for goal Danny had. We have had no CF, who was as a good an otherall player, as Danny, despite his lack of mobility.

[Walnut]

despite his lack of mobility.

Don't forget the lack of goals either.

[trane]

^ Again you are looking at many games were he played only partial games, and came in very late. He was much more of a scoring threat then any of our other CFs.

[Walnut]

He was much more of a scoring threat then any of our other CFs.

You are right - he nearly scored loads of goals.

[Yohan]

Don't forget the lack of goals either.
Target strikers are also rarely the top goal scorers for a team. Dichio had his share of goals, but he also did well to set up others. (I can remember so many chances Dichio created for Cunty to screw up)

[ExiledRed]

Danny had 15 goals in 59 appearances for TFC, and Santos has 5 goals in 18 appearances. Their scoring ratio is almost identical -- 1 in 4 (give or take).

Neither was or is going to light the world on fire.

Lots of Danny's and many of Santos's 'appearances' have been as late substitutions. Over the years, statistics like these take precedence over the memory of what actually happened. Its a given that Danny would have scored more if he'd started more games and hadnt suffered the concussion. Santos is a regular competent league forward, he knows where the net is and how to find it, he'll score goals if he gets played often and doesnt get dicked around in off positions every week.

[trane]

^ I agree that Santos would be better is allowed to simply play CF, and grow in the position.

[Whoop]

Target strikers are also rarely the top goal scorers for a team. Dichio had his share of goals, but he also did well to set up others. (I can remember so many chances Dichio created for Cunty to screw up)

Had one of the best first touches in the history of all TFC players.

I liked Dichio... but that's also kind of sad.

[Whoop]

^ I agree that Santos would be better is allowed to simply play CF, and grow in the position.

But I like Gordon up top too.

This team might be better constructed as a 4-2-2-2.

[Walnut]

This team might be better constructed as a 4-2-2-2.

Sounds like they are getting ready to start a conga line!

[ExiledRed]

You are right - he nearly scored loads of goals.

No that was Barrett.

[trane]

You are right - he nearly scored loads of goals.


No. When he was playing full games, and fit, he had the best goal scoring ability of any CF we have had, at least of those who had a chance. When he greated chances, and when he chances he finished them at a very respectable rate.

You may disagree, good for you. I do not give a shit.

[trane]

Sounds like they are getting ready to start a conga line!

That is acctualy a formation played quite a bit in and by Barzil. In Brazil it is Samba.

[trane]

But I like Gordon up top too.

This team might be better constructed as a 4-2-2-2.

He has been decent. I would like it, but I doubt Winter would think about it.