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denime
04-14-2011, 05:23 AM
Mornin'


TFC TV Post Game (http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp)


Reds Record A Point Against LA (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04/reds-record-point-against-la)


Another Point To Youthful TFC (http://www.torontofc.ca/content/another-point-youthful-tfc)


Toronto FC still unbeaten after scoreless draw against Galaxy (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soccer/mls/2011-04-13-galaxy-toronto-fc_N.htm)


Punchless TFC draws Beckham, Galaxy (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/04/13/sp-galaxy-torontofc-game.html)


Beckham the main attraction of TFC’s 0-0 draw with L.A. (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/974511--beckham-the-main-attraction-of-tfc-s-0-0-draw-with-l-a)


Toronto FC hold Beckham, Galaxy to a draw (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/04/13/tfc_galaxy_wrapup/)


Galaxy can't find any goals in Toronto (http://soccernet-assets.espn.go.com/report?id=314122&cc=5901&league=USA.1)


Beckham’s star power offset by dim game (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/beckhams-star-power-offset-by-dim-game/article1984840/)


Beckham blasts MLS refs (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/the-worlds-game/beckham-blasts-mls-refs/article1984956/)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

Kaz
04-14-2011, 05:54 AM
Is it sad you have to go to a US news paper to get a positive headline about the TFC game?

And thanks for the articles, as usual they mandatory morning reading.

London
04-14-2011, 06:45 AM
a point is a piont i guess.

I also noticed RSL won again.

they have only given up 1 goal so far this season (yes i realize it is only 4 games in) and they have scored 8

keem-o-sabi
04-14-2011, 06:51 AM
today's Coed Girls 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/04/12/miss-coed-chrissy-marie-22-pics/) & 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/04/12/tierra-lees-14-hottest-twitpics-revealed/)

scooter
04-14-2011, 06:56 AM
mornin d

anybody have an update on dicoy williams ?

TFC_Junky
04-14-2011, 07:02 AM
maybe it's just me but I'd like to see Winter put out a better back 4 for a change. Not sure why he's relying on Harden... I'd like to see this back 4 in front of frei.

Borman---Williams---Cann---Yourassowsky

All told, hard fought game and a deserved point. With no real attacking options other than Martina and Stevanovich we did well to get a point. Place landycakes in LA's line up and I think we would have lost that game...

TFC_Junky
04-14-2011, 07:06 AM
Frei's comment in his post game interview was awesome, "it was Chad, you know, I wasn't about to let him score"!!!

Oldtimer
04-14-2011, 07:42 AM
a point is a piont i guess.

I also noticed RSL won again.

they have only given up 1 goal so far this season (yes i realize it is only 4 games in) and they have scored 8

They are my favourites to win the SS this year. Also, I could possibly see them win the CCL this year. For a club that holds some of the all-time "crap" records in MLS (just like TFC does), their rebuild following the firing of their GM and coach has been phenomenal. It shows what's possible in this league.

Darlofletch
04-14-2011, 07:51 AM
My report on the game. (http://www.wakingthered.com/2011/4/14/2110197/toronto-fc-0-0-los-angeles-galaxy-saviours-for-goalposts)

tough to criticise with gordon and santos out, but not really a great performance going forward was it?

haven't had time to read articles other than the star. I hope the rest aren't as beckham centric, but the headlines suggest they might be.

Pookie
04-14-2011, 07:59 AM
Is it sad you have to go to a US news paper to get a positive headline about the TFC game?


Isn't that something, eh?

I remember John Molinaro writing on here that it wasn't his job to make TFC successful, it was his job to report on it.

We know there is a bit of a pissing match with the club over access and that in this town, negativity sells. With all that in mind, this is what he chooses to report on:

"But in reality the glass is half empty, this performance representing a backwards step..."

"Toronto's lack of offensive depth was brutally laid bare for all to see on this night."

"Serb newcomer never really influenced the game as he was deprived of quality service..."

"... tactical switch did not pay off, though. TFC's defenders looked disorganized and clueless"

"Julian de Guzman failed to make an impression..."


And with all that "evidence" of a punchless performance, who can resist a parting (personal?) shot at the recent target of your media ban?

"Curiously, Toronto coach Aron Winter thinks his team has sufficient quality attacking options..."


John, I like your writing. But you are right. Your job is to report on the game, not inject your own personal bias into the coverage. I don't expect the media to be cheerleaders but I also expect that the full story will be presented.

If you see a full 90 of crap, report it as such. If you see half and half, please consider reporting the full picture.

I do find it ironic that you stated it wasn't your job to make TFC successful.

If the media ends up killing the team with negativity, what exactly will be your job going forward?

johnmolinaro
04-14-2011, 08:09 AM
Isn't that something, eh?

I remember John Molinaro writing on here that it wasn't his job to make TFC successful, it was his job to report on it.

We know there is a bit of a pissing match with the club over access and that in this town, negativity sells. With all that in mind, this is what he chooses to report on:

"But in reality the glass is half empty, this performance representing a backwards step..."

"Toronto's lack of offensive depth was brutally laid bare for all to see on this night."

"Serb newcomer never really influenced the game as he was deprived of quality service..."

"... tactical switch did not pay off, though. TFC's defenders looked disorganized and clueless"

"Julian de Guzman failed to make an impression..."


And with all that "evidence" of a punchless performance, who can resist a parting (personal?) shot at the recent target of your media ban?

"Curiously, Toronto coach Aron Winter thinks his team has sufficient quality attacking options..."


John, I like your writing. But you are right. Your job is to report on the game, not inject your own personal bias into the coverage. I don't expect the media to be cheerleaders but I also expect that the full story will be presented.

If you see a full 90 of crap, report it as such. If you see half and half, please consider reporting the full picture.

I do find it ironic that you stated it wasn't your job to make TFC successful.

If the media ends up killing the team with negativity, what exactly will be your job going forward?

I honestly didn't see much that was positive last night. If I did, that would have been reflected in my report.

There's no pissing match with Aron. In fact, we had both locker-room and gym access last night, so that's no longer an issue.

JM

mastermixer
04-14-2011, 08:11 AM
My report on the game. (http://www.wakingthered.com/2011/4/14/2110197/toronto-fc-0-0-los-angeles-galaxy-saviours-for-goalposts)

tough to criticise with gordon and santos out, but not really a great performance going forward was it?

haven't had time to read articles other than the star. I hope the rest aren't as beckham centric, but the headlines suggest they might be.

This made me think. I definitely think we needed Gordon out there to fight for some of those balls in LA's 18 yard box. But I'm not so sure Santos would have benefited us last night. Both Tchani and Peterson seemed to push the ball up a little more effectively than Santos has who clearly played out of position in the midfield so far this year. I would ultimately split the striker position between Santos and Gordon if I was Winter.

Parkdale
04-14-2011, 08:19 AM
wow.... If Beckham wasn't happy with the officials...... he should imaging how we felt about it.

TFCRegina
04-14-2011, 08:21 AM
I honestly didn't see much that was positive last night. If I did, that would have been reflected in my report.

There's no pissing match with Aron. In fact, we had both locker-room and gym access last night, so that's no longer an issue.

JM

So the glass is half empty but it's not half empty? Instead, it's entirely empty?

Get real John.

Technorgasm
04-14-2011, 08:30 AM
THANK god the MANUre / Beckham fucking love fest 2011 is OVER.
What a horrific time at BMO, I was in 3 sections throughout the game and all 3 were littered with people focussed on becks and LA, even in 111 I had 2 twats chattering on and on and on about him and LA as a team. . I was sickened by it, like Anderson in the matrix, their putrid filth fill my pores and turned my gut. . . I could noT wait to get out of there. .

I didnt mind all the 3-Lion kits though :)

Saturday NIGHT game ahead. . Im focussed on that, thankfully last night is a VERY VERY distant memory.

PS, it was hard to play against 12 men, the ref was so obviously against us.
lol Chad!
lol Becks
lol LA! eat shit and fuck off. :scarf:

TechnorB

Technorgasm
04-14-2011, 08:32 AM
Props have to be given to Phonzo, Jack and Pat. . (others as well)

there was not ONE MOMENT all game they were not giving it 100% in teh stands.
well done lads. Proud of ya.

Pookie
04-14-2011, 08:32 AM
I honestly didn't see much that was positive last night. If I did, that would have been reflected in my report.

There's no pissing match with Aron. In fact, we had both locker-room and gym access last night, so that's no longer an issue.

JM

So, the body of your piece is essentially:

<-- insert highlights of perceived ineffectiveness -->

followed by:

"Curiously, Toronto coach Aron Winter thinks his team has sufficient quality attacking options"


It appears as thought you attempted to undermine his judgement and paint a picture that he is a little out to lunch by using the sarcasm that was preceded by selected examples of ineffectiveness.

I mean you could have easily removed the sarcasm and offered something like:

"Despite some offensive challenges in this game, Winter still believes his team has sufficient quality attacking options"


With TFC sitting second in the eastern conference in Goals For, granted with some teams having games in hand, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to go with the more neutral of the statements and cut the new coach some slack, would it?

You can see how we might perceive that your coverage is biased towards the negative and that there are lingering misgivings about the way you've been treated to this point (ie. DeRo trade day practice issues, player access, etc)?

DangerRed
04-14-2011, 08:34 AM
So the glass is half empty but it's not half empty? Instead, it's entirely empty?

Get real John.

Man, did you watch the whole game last night? And were you watching on TV, or did you go to the ground like I did? You have got to be high if you think any part of the squad performed well on a consistent basis yesterday. Tchani is a disaster and the attacking prowess we're supposed to have simply isn't there yet.

Molinaro is right - compared to what we saw against San Jose, last night was a step backwards.

Detroit_TFC
04-14-2011, 08:34 AM
Before the game many people were saying that this was the real test for TFC. The first few games were against expansion teams and mid or low table scrub teams. Well we tied LA Galaxy. A depleted LA side but we had our own missing playmakers too.

The only people who should be complaining about underperforming are the Galaxy fans.

Now if we can't get it done against DCU that might be a different story. I hope the coaches tell our defensive line to keep their mitts off Charlie Davies. We saw last week what he's learned in Europe.

DangerRed
04-14-2011, 08:35 AM
So, the body of your piece is essentially:

<-- insert highlights of perceived ineffectiveness -->

followed by:

"Curiously, Toronto coach Aron Winter thinks his team has sufficient quality attacking options"


It appears as thought you attempted to undermine his judgement and paint a picture that he is a little out to lunch by using the sarcasm that was preceded by selected examples of ineffectiveness.

I mean you could have easily removed the sarcasm and offered something like:

"Despite some offensive challenges in this game, Winter still believes his team has sufficient quality attacking options"


With TFC sitting second in the eastern conference in Goals For, granted with some teams having games in hand, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to go with the more neutral of the statements and cut the new coach some slack, would it?

You can see how we might perceive that your coverage is biased towards the negative and that there are lingering misgivings about the way you've been treated to this point (ie. DeRo trade day practice issues, player access, etc)?

Pook, we've won ONE game out of the FIVE we've played.

You think that merits slack-cutting? Who gives a flying fuck about goals for right now?

tfcleeds
04-14-2011, 08:38 AM
Props have to be given to Phonzo, Jack and Pat. . (others as well)

there was not ONE MOMENT all game they were not giving it 100% in teh stands.
well done lads. Proud of ya.

Too bad you had such a rotten time Giles, shoulda been in 112. No Becks love in there, that's for sure.

Detroit_TFC
04-14-2011, 08:40 AM
^ I don't understand where your expectations are coming from. Why do you think we should be doing so much better than we are?

IMO we've got MONTHS of development to be done yet.

johnmolinaro
04-14-2011, 08:41 AM
So, the body of your piece is essentially:

<-- insert highlights of perceived ineffectiveness -->

followed by:

"Curiously, Toronto coach Aron Winter thinks his team has sufficient quality attacking options"


It appears as thought you attempted to undermine his judgement and paint a picture that he is a little out to lunch by using the sarcasm that was preceded by selected examples of ineffectiveness.

I mean you could have easily removed the sarcasm and offered something like:

"Despite some offensive challenges in this game, Winter still believes his team has sufficient quality attacking options"


With TFC sitting second in the eastern conference in Goals For, granted with some teams having games in hand, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to go with the more neutral of the statements and cut the new coach some slack, would it?

You can see how we might perceive that your coverage is biased towards the negative and that there are lingering misgivings about the way you've been treated to this point (ie. DeRo trade day practice issues, player access, etc)?

I honestly didn't think I was being sarcastic.

Seriously, no bias/ill feelings against Aron. I like a lot of things he's done.

I even wrote a glowing blog last week about him and how he's changed the culture of the team.

JM

Suds
04-14-2011, 08:42 AM
I honestly didn't see much that was positive last night. If I did, that would have been reflected in my report.

There's no pissing match with Aron. In fact, we had both locker-room and gym access last night, so that's no longer an issue.

JM

Fair enough. We all see the game differently.

As for positives, I felt Tchani had a pretty good game. He broke up a fair bit of LA's movement through the midfield. He also started to become out guy in the midfield to move the ball through when play transitioned.

Frei as usual bailed us out when needed.

There were periods of the game when we moved the ball well, however, I'll grant you that it rarely resulted in positive results.

Also, if it were not for a couple outstanding saves and one play where Ricketts just happened to be in the right place we could have potted a couple goals.

Coming into the game most "experts" didn't give TFC much chance of getting anything out of this game. The kids played against an LA team stacked with MLS vets and came away with a point.

Was is a great game played by TFC? No, not at all. But I'll respectfully disagree there were very few positives that it was not worth mentioning them in an article on the game.

TFC Cityboy
04-14-2011, 08:42 AM
THANK god the MANUre / Beckham fucking love fest 2011 is OVER.
What a horrific time at BMO, I was in 3 sections throughout the game and all 3 were littered with people focussed on becks and LA, even in 111 I had 2 twats chattering on and on and on about him and LA as a team. . I was sickened by it, like Anderson in the matrix, their putrid filth fill my pores and turned my gut. . . I could noT wait to get out of there. .

I didnt mind all the 3-Lion kits though :)

Saturday NIGHT game ahead. . Im focussed on that, thankfully last night is a VERY VERY distant memory.

PS, it was hard to play against 12 men, the ref was so obviously against us.
lol Chad!
lol Becks
lol LA! eat shit and fuck off. :scarf:

TechnorB
True.
and how many of the sell-out crowd will be there cheering the lads on in the wind and rain on saturday? I'm guessing less than 15,000.

On the plus side, the south stand was back to its packed-out capacity last night - great night in 115 despite the dreadful match.

TFCRegina
04-14-2011, 08:45 AM
Pook, we've won ONE game out of the FIVE we've played.

You think that merits slack-cutting? Who gives a flying fuck about goals for right now?

Well, if you're like most sane people, you wrote the season off when De Ro was traded. Unless you were delusional and thought he didn't contribute to this team in a positive manner.

I'll take the draw because we have no offensive options. I disagree with John's assessment that TFC played poorly.

TFC is a naturally undertalented team at this point. Any play where we string three passes together needs to be considered success.

DangerRed
04-14-2011, 08:52 AM
Well, if you're like most sane people, you wrote the season off when De Ro was traded. Unless you were delusional and thought he didn't contribute to this team in a positive manner.

I'll take the draw because we have no offensive options. I disagree with John's assessment that TFC played poorly.

TFC is a naturally undertalented team at this point. Any play where we string three passes together needs to be considered success.

Colour me insane, then, because the day we traded DeRo felt to me like a fresh start filled with potential. I want a club that's not built around a single player, and it started to feel like that was possible. The Chivas game shook that belief a little (granted, we would've won if not for an early moment where our D was caught sleeping, again, and DeRo wouldn't have saved us). The San Jose game reinforced my belief.

Last night has shaken it again. A talentless, back-stepping performance. If you've PVR'd the game, watch the first 15 minutes and tell me how many times the ball is in LA's half. Then we can have a conversation about "attractive, attacking football" and you can again tell me to be patient and that we're rebuilding.

Yep, I'm crazy indeed.

jabbronies
04-14-2011, 08:52 AM
Frei's comment in his post game interview was awesome, "it was Chad, you know, I wasn't about to let him score"!!!

Even if frei did want him to score Chad would miss it bwwrrahahahahahaha

Same ol barrett..always missing!

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 08:53 AM
Lay off John guys, he is an invited guest here and one of the few (only) reporters to show his face here. Do you want to chase him away too?

johnmolinaro
04-14-2011, 08:56 AM
Lay off John guys, he is an invited guest here and one of the few (only) reporters to show his face here. Do you want to chase him away too?

Sincerely appreciate the support Roogsy, but I'm not above criticism.

I respect that people don't always (or ever!) agree with me. That's fine. I have no problem with that.

JM

Pachuco
04-14-2011, 09:00 AM
So, the body of your piece is essentially:

<-- insert highlights of perceived ineffectiveness -->

followed by:

"Curiously, Toronto coach Aron Winter thinks his team has sufficient quality attacking options"


It appears as thought you attempted to undermine his judgement and paint a picture that he is a little out to lunch by using the sarcasm that was preceded by selected examples of ineffectiveness.

I mean you could have easily removed the sarcasm and offered something like:

"Despite some offensive challenges in this game, Winter still believes his team has sufficient quality attacking options"


With TFC sitting second in the eastern conference in Goals For, granted with some teams having games in hand, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to go with the more neutral of the statements and cut the new coach some slack, would it?

You can see how we might perceive that your coverage is biased towards the negative and that there are lingering misgivings about the way you've been treated to this point (ie. DeRo trade day practice issues, player access, etc)?

If you don't think yesterday's game was a step backwards from the San Jose game then you are out to lunch.

But what really bugs me about your arrogance is how you think you have a right to tell a reporter what he should and shouldn't write. It's one thing to disagree with what he writes, it's another thing to sit here and re-write his statements then way you'd like to see them written. Get a job working for CBC if you think you can do a better job. Unfortunately, if you wrote what you wanted to write you'd also have lots of people disagreeing with you.

backbeat
04-14-2011, 09:03 AM
Sincerely appreciate the support Roogsy, but I'm not above criticism.

I respect that people don't always (or ever!) agree with me. That's fine. I have no problem with that.

JM

glad to hear you say that - there is nothing wrong with discussion - i didn't agree with your view of last evenings game but i do like reading your opinion and I think you do it well.

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 09:05 AM
Sincerely appreciate the support Roogsy, but I'm not above criticism.

I respect that people don't always (or ever!) agree with me. That's fine. I have no problem with that.

JM

We appreciate that you put yourself out there and visit us soccer-lovers here, but around here guys tend to forget their manners and need occasional reminders. We've chased enough "public" personalities away. I am sure they can disagree with you in a more respectful manner.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-14-2011, 09:09 AM
Pook, we've won ONE game out of the FIVE we've played.

You think that merits slack-cutting? Who gives a flying fuck about goals for right now?

we've also only lost 1 game in 5, tieing 3 which is a hell of alot better than most people predicted at the start of the season. Fact is we are still a team with only 5 games under there wings, trying out new formations with a majority of players that have never played together under a new coach against one of the best teams in the league. I see only positives in this game.

Yohan
04-14-2011, 09:10 AM
THANK god the MANUre / Beckham fucking love fest 2011 is OVER.
What a horrific time at BMO, I was in 3 sections throughout the game and all 3 were littered with people focussed on becks and LA, even in 111 I had 2 twats chattering on and on and on about him and LA as a team. . I was sickened by it, like Anderson in the matrix, their putrid filth fill my pores and turned my gut. . . I could noT wait to get out of there. .

I didnt mind all the 3-Lion kits though :)

Saturday NIGHT game ahead. . Im focussed on that, thankfully last night is a VERY VERY distant memory.

PS, it was hard to play against 12 men, the ref was so obviously against us.
lol Chad!
lol Becks
lol LA! eat shit and fuck off. :scarf:

TechnorB
Saw one chick with a TFC jersey, Beckham marry me sign and a vuvuzela... UGH!

mastermixer
04-14-2011, 09:12 AM
Wow I can't believe people are saying it was a poor performance last night.

Did they make mistakes? Shit yeah. A complete overhaul of the team will do that to you.

But for the first time in a long time I saw TFC playing as a team, making some good passes and playing some entertaining soccer. LA is not a bad team, they were going to get chances on goal weather TFC made some bad mistakes or not.

Jack
04-14-2011, 09:14 AM
I don't think anyone's giving John a hard time and I see no issue with disagreeing with what he's written and questioning it.

I'm sure John has developed pretty thick skin after being a regular on our boards for several years and I doubt he's going to be chased off by a few people giving him some flak over one article.

I don't think it's true that John's an "invited guest" here as much as he is another participant in the lively and ongoing TFC discussion on the busiest TFC-related site on the internet.

There is no special treatment on my part for reporters or anyone else who visits our board. You write something I disagree with, reporter or not, and I reserve the right to say so.

Now, as for the negatives, I freely admit they exist. But there is something about this team that keeps me feeling more positive than some of the postings I've seen, including what John has written here. I see potential. Real potential, implemented in a system. I see it in Tchani, in Borman, in Stevanovic, in Martina, in JDG and even in Jacob Peterson.

I know it's the 5th goddamn year in a row that we've had to put up with assembling a team and having them gel during meaningful games. However, I do think that, given a system in which to play (as opposed to the pretty chaotic atmosphere which used to pervade the club) that there is a much higher chance of things coming together. I see glimpses of that.

We need someone on the right to support Martina like Borman and Yourassowsky do on the left for Steva. We need more depth at centre-forward and attacking mid. We need Tchani to hesitate less with his passing. We need Steva to look for his teammates more.
The thing that makes me like having these kinds of problems is that many of them are solvable by coaching, playing together and building trust within a team.

All the Tchani naysayers can't deny the talent and potential the kid has. You can see it on display, despite his sometimes boneheaded plays.

This is a team that is a work in progress, but, unlike the past two seasons, there is a feeling that progress will take place. At least in my mind. Maybe I am too optimistic, but that's how I see things at the moment.

Let's check back midway through the season and see if I am crazy or prophetic or somewhere in between.

backbeat
04-14-2011, 09:20 AM
Colour me insane, then, because the day we traded DeRo felt to me like a fresh start filled with potential. I want a club that's not built around a single player, and it started to feel like that was possible. The Chivas game shook that belief a little (granted, we would've won if not for an early moment where our D was caught sleeping, again, and DeRo wouldn't have saved us). The San Jose game reinforced my belief.

Last night has shaken it again. A talentless, back-stepping performance. If you've PVR'd the game, watch the first 15 minutes and tell me how many times the ball is in LA's half. Then we can have a conversation about "attractive, attacking football" and you can again tell me to be patient and that we're rebuilding.

Yep, I'm crazy indeed.

we no doubt started slowly - hope that tend ends soon - but we were without our 2 strikers both it seems at the last minute...

as for Tchani i really didn't see it like you did. i saw a huge amount of potential last night and one of the few who kept the ball at his feet moving forward - yes he made mistakes but all in all i really liked what i saw in him.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 09:26 AM
Bang on Jack.

johnmolinaro
04-14-2011, 09:27 AM
I'm sure John has developed pretty thick skin after being a regular on our boards for several years and I doubt he's going to be chased off by a few people giving him some flak over one article.

A very thick skin, but it was developed long before I started posting here. :)

Chased away by people who disagree with me? No. Like I said, I'm not above criticism and respect that people might not agree with me. I'm cool with that.

JM

Pookie
04-14-2011, 09:34 AM
I honestly didn't think I was being sarcastic.

Seriously, no bias/ill feelings against Aron. I like a lot of things he's done.

I even wrote a glowing blog last week about him and how he's changed the culture of the team.

JM

Ok, no worries. I was just my interpretation of what you wrote. I appreciate your explanation.

Generally speaking, when I see negative headlines coming from the home town of the team going up against positive headlines from outside of Toronto, all related to the same game, I tend to think that there is some bias in coverage.

We hear often that the media can make or break a coach. Countless coaches are advised to "make friends" with the media to effectively buy them time. My worry with Winter through all of the media access issues was that he'd be painted with a negative brush whenever the chance presented itself.

johnmolinaro
04-14-2011, 09:36 AM
My worry with Winter through all of the media access issues was that he'd be painted with a negative brush whenever the chance presented itself.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not going to hold that against him. Like I said, it's a dead issue now. Everyone has moved on.

Pookie
04-14-2011, 09:41 AM
If you don't think yesterday's game was a step backwards from the San Jose game then you are out to lunch.

But what really bugs me about your arrogance is how you think you have a right to tell a reporter what he should and shouldn't write. It's one thing to disagree with what he writes, it's another thing to sit here and re-write his statements then way you'd like to see them written.

Define step backwards.

Both games resulted in a draw. One was played without 2 strikers and had players playing in different positions. One was played on the road. One at home.

The goal of this season is to develop a cohesive system with interchangeable players.

Considering the circumstances, results and the end goal, I'd love to read your interpretation as to how it is a "step backwards" for this young team.

As for the dialog about media coverage, I make no apologies about critically thinking about the information that is presented.

rocker
04-14-2011, 09:46 AM
Pook, we've won ONE game out of the FIVE we've played.

1 out of 5 is not great, that's for sure. But only 4 MLS teams have more than 1 win at this point. Of the teams playing 5 games so far (6 teams), 4 have 1 win, including Seattle.

I know you'll mention the games in hand other teams have, but not all of those teams can win that game in hand (due to odds).

So to me that stat isn't really a telling stat with so few games played. Once we have a larger sample size, the number of wins a team has will be more telling.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 09:50 AM
The only thing I can tell so far into this MLS season is this...

Real Salt Lake












then everyone else.

Pachuco
04-14-2011, 10:00 AM
Define step backwards.

Both games resulted in a draw. One was played without 2 strikers and had players playing in different positions. One was played on the road. One at home.

The goal of this season is to develop a cohesive system with interchangeable players.

Considering the circumstances, results and the end goal, I'd love to read your interpretation as to how it is a "step backwards" for this young team.

As for the dialog about media coverage, I make no apologies about critically thinking about the information that is presented.

Is that all you are capable of looking at? The result? Alright, here is my go at why we went a step backwards:

We tied 1-1 against a pretty good San Jose team who had all their attacking options available to them. Most importantly, this was a road game where in the MLS, ties are very acceptable. Aside from the actual results though, we played the best half (2nd half) that we've played all year. DeGuzman and Thani were brilliant in the middle. The defense as a unit was quite good in the second half. The movement between Borman and Stevanovic was exciting as hell to watch, and we created chances from the run of play. Wondo (arguably the best striker in the MLS right now) got behind the defense once all game and Frei made a great save.

Now we come back home, and play an LA Galaxy team that is playing nowhere near their potential. A team that without Donovan is very beatable in my opinion. We can't put 2 passes together the entire game. Stevanovic and Martina went back to trying to do it all by themselves which was a huge difference from San Jose. Tchani and De Guzman were just ok to me. De Guzman was good defensively and so was Tchani, but they both had a real hard time getting the ball forward and making accurate passes. The only time we looked threatening was from set pieces, from the run of play though it was incredibly frustrating to watch. Gargan at RB was attrocious as pretty much everyone else agrees. Peterson in the 2nd half of San Jose did a much better job.

So that's why it was a step backwards for me. Given that we were happy tying San Jose away from home, I'm not sure how anybody can be happy with tying the Galaxy at home unless you haven't been keeping up with the MLS this early season. For those that have said we tied one of the best teams in the league, yeah well, sorry, LA has not been one of the best teams in the league this early on. This wasn't RSL we were playing.

Carts
04-14-2011, 10:02 AM
"Julian de Guzman failed to make an impression..."


He made an impression on me...

Yet ANOTHER NEGATIVE IMPRESSION.. :(

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 10:03 AM
:lol:

That didn't last long did it Carts?

Jack
04-14-2011, 10:05 AM
I can agree it was a step back in terms of a team performance, but there were still some things I liked about the game.

It also illustrated that we really need a big centre forward to make our offensive game work. Steva was not in his element there. And we really need to upgrade the RB slot. Martina is hung out to dry with almost no support. I'd almost rather play Peterson there and have Gargan in the midfield. Peterson didn't do a bad job over there late in the SJ match, though it remains to be seen if he could do it for a full 90.

Jack
04-14-2011, 10:06 AM
Man, I thought JDG had another solid outing.

I'm not sure what you guys want from him. He won a lot of balls and made good first passes. I saw very few giveaways from him.

He is the anchor for our team in the mid. Without him out there I'd place a large bet on the fact that we'd have lost that game.

London
04-14-2011, 10:10 AM
Props have to be given to Phonzo, Jack and Pat. . (others as well)

there was not ONE MOMENT all game they were not giving it 100% in teh stands.
well done lads. Proud of ya.

at one point it felt like we were the away team,there were a hanfull of people chanting, maybe thats why i had alot of fun last night????

Whoop
04-14-2011, 10:18 AM
I thought the 2nd half in the stands was better than the 1st.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 10:19 AM
Man, I thought JDG had another solid outing.

I'm not sure what you guys want from him. He won a lot of balls and made good first passes. I saw very few giveaways from him.

He is the anchor for our team in the mid. Without him out there I'd place a large bet on the fact that we'd have lost that game.

I agree Jack. But that's just me. He was definitely a lot more passionate on the pitch than I've seen in the past.

Carts
04-14-2011, 10:20 AM
Man, I thought JDG had another solid outing.

I'm not sure what you guys want from him. He won a lot of balls and made good first passes. I saw very few giveaways from him.

He is the anchor for our team in the mid. Without him out there I'd place a large bet on the fact that we'd have lost that game.

You're looking from the "HE'S OUR OWN" and "CANADIAN JDG" eyes I'm affraid...

That pass to the 4th Officials Tables was SPOT ON...

If he was an import - people would be calling for his head!

Gave the ball away several times - beaten in the air - lost his man - and was in "no mans land" when LA attacked...

People will say "Carts hates JDG" but honestly - as I asked my former coach who has seasons what he thought, he was he was "ordinary if not poor"...

Love him all you want guys, if he wasn't Canadian or a DP you'd be screaming for him to be cut...

Sad, but unfortunately TRUE... :(

DAMN I WISH HE WAS BETTER...

He got the name of "great player" when young, and since has played with top players and looked good - now that he is not around a TOP lineup he looks like he is - JUST NOT THAT GOOD...

My favourite is "DID YOU SEE THAT TURN" or "LOOK AT THAT QUALITY". Well, Gargan had two good turns and touches, I had one in men's league, Cann was MOM, but no - if JDG does 4 good things all match - HE'S AWESOME!

4 solid things does not make a GREAT PLAYER... If they did, GARGAN for DP...!!!!

Lost in defence when LA attacked (isn't he a defensive mid), lost balls in the air (oh he's short give him a break), two great turns (that amounted to nothing unfortunately), a pass to NOBODY (well the 4th officials table was RED so that's ok), a pass to LA (WAIT, nobody was running for him!!!)...

Keep making excuses guys... Keep going... :(

Carts...

Ossington Mental Youth
04-14-2011, 10:20 AM
Man, I thought JDG had another solid outing.

I'm not sure what you guys want from him. He won a lot of balls and made good first passes. I saw very few giveaways from him.

He is the anchor for our team in the mid. Without him out there I'd place a large bet on the fact that we'd have lost that game.

yep i agree, id really like to know what people expect from him, i cant wait till he hits full stride in mid season, dude looks great out there.
One of my favorite bits he seems to get is knocked to the ground with the ball at his feet and he dances around the dude on the ground to jump up and do a turn then pass the ball.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 10:21 AM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09Xdc9qcic0rz/610x.jpg

Whoop
04-14-2011, 10:24 AM
Carts I wish all our players were better. LOL

The funny thing about losing balls in the air there was a stretch in the first where he did win a few balls in the air because someone (who will remain nameless) even turned to me and said "he's better in the air than people give him credit for."

Carts
04-14-2011, 10:25 AM
Carts I wish all our players were better. LOL


So do I... :(

backbeat
04-14-2011, 10:25 AM
You're looking from the "HE'S OUR OWN" and "CANADIAN JDG" eyes I'm affraid...

That pass to the 4th Officials Tables was SPOT ON...

If he was an import - people would be calling for his head!

Gave the ball away several times - beaten in the air - lost his man - and was in "no mans land" when LA attacked...

People will say "Carts hates JDG" but honestly - as I asked my former coach who has seasons what he thought, he was he was "ordinary if not poor"...

Love him all you want guys, if he wasn't Canadian or a DP you'd be screaming for him to be cut...

Sad, but unfortunately TRUE... :(

DAMN I WISH HE WAS BETTER...

He got the name of "great player" when young, and since has played with top players and looked good - now that he is not around a TOP lineup he looks like he is - JUST NOT THAT GOOD...

My favourite is "DID YOU SEE THAT TURN" or "LOOK AT THAT QUALITY". Well, Gargan had two good turns and touches, I had one in men's league, Cann was MOM, but no - if JDG does 4 good things all match - HE'S AWESOME!

4 solid things does not make a GREAT PLAYER... If they did, GARGAN for DP...!!!!

Lost in defence when LA attacked (isn't he a defensive mid), lost balls in the air (oh he's short give him a break), two great turns (that amounted to nothing unfortunately), a pass to NOBODY (well the 4th officials table was RED so that's ok), a pass to LA (WAIT, nobody was running for him!!!)...

Keep making excuses guys... Keep going... :(

Carts...

well that's obviously what you saw - i didn't

thought JDG played a solid game all night until he was subbed off

broke up plays, held the ball, moved it forward, intercepted passes - all-in-all quarter backed the team...and with more playing time and getting to game shape with this system he'll only get better - especially if we land an AM

werewolf
04-14-2011, 10:26 AM
I thought the 2nd half in the stands was better than the 1st.

:lol: You would.

Carts
04-14-2011, 10:26 AM
well that's obviously what you saw - i didn't

thought JDG played a solid game all night until he was subbed off

broke up plays, held the ball, moved it forward, intercepted passes - all-in-all quarter backed the team...and with more playing time and getting to game shape with this system he'll only get better - especially if we land an AM

Every time someone says something good about him its "...if we get THIS he'll be better..."

WHEN WILL HE BE BETTER???

werewolf
04-14-2011, 10:26 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/JSAN/29834_425060060347_510800347_5373868_562115_n.jpg

Whoop
04-14-2011, 10:28 AM
:lol: You would.

LOL... nothing to do with that.

dow117
04-14-2011, 10:31 AM
Fair enough. We all see the game differently.

As for positives, I felt Tchani had a pretty good game. He broke up a fair bit of LA's movement through the midfield. He also started to become out guy in the midfield to move the ball through when play transitioned.

Frei as usual bailed us out when needed.

There were periods of the game when we moved the ball well, however, I'll grant you that it rarely resulted in positive results.

Also, if it were not for a couple outstanding saves and one play where Ricketts just happened to be in the right place we could have potted a couple goals.

Coming into the game most "experts" didn't give TFC much chance of getting anything out of this game. The kids played against an LA team stacked with MLS vets and came away with a point.

Was is a great game played by TFC? No, not at all. But I'll respectfully disagree there were very few positives that it was not worth mentioning them in an article on the game.


+1 d'accord !!!

jabbronies
04-14-2011, 10:38 AM
Man, I thought JDG had another solid outing.

I'm not sure what you guys want from him. He won a lot of balls and made good first passes. I saw very few giveaways from him.

He is the anchor for our team in the mid. Without him out there I'd place a large bet on the fact that we'd have lost that game.

Agreed - Aside from a couple wayward passes - I thought he controlled the mid pretty well for someone starting his first game of the year and laying the most minutes he's played all year.

if he continues at this pace - He's be a critical part of this team come May/June.

Pigfynn
04-14-2011, 10:40 AM
This board is fucking insane.

Half the people here thought we would be losing games 3-0 when we were poor in preseason...

Then everyone was saying after we lost DeRo that we would be losing games 3-0

In reality, we have lost one of 5 games with a very credible away draw at SJ and some injuries that probably prevented another home win last night.

and it's still NOT good enough eh?

hahahahahahaha

This is not a place of reason.

If I would have said in preseason that we would will be beaten only once in our first five games I think the over whelming majority of you would have taken it in a heartbeat.

So enjoy the fact that our actual record is not bad. Who among us expected more after five games? and if so, WHY?

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 10:40 AM
People will say what the want (CARTS ;)) but I was happy with JDG's performance last night and hope to see more from him once he is fully fit. Is he worth 1.7 million....NO, but that is not his fault he is getting paid that much......I also like the way Winter is slowly introducing him back to the fold and not trying to burn him out. He will be an important piece to this year's puzzle.......and I will be backing him all year long...good times and bad. :)

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 10:42 AM
So enjoy the fact that our actual record is not bad. Who among us expected more after five games? and if so, WHY?

+1

Not me....so I am pleasantly happy with what is going on....does that make me a sucker. Maybe so, but I did not have high hopes for this season.

babone
04-14-2011, 10:42 AM
I don't get it??? LA ranked # 3 San Jose Ranked # 6 TFC Ranked 15th. TFC ties both and plays a decent game and with a little luck could have one both. But again nothing but a negative spin! Makes no sense the team is progressing but JM still got nothing but the hate going on.

You should get together with Dobson and have a Whitecrap party since they can do no wrong!

mdc 77
04-14-2011, 10:45 AM
Thought JDG was good, Stevanovic was good and Frei was good...other than that we were pretty brutal for long stretches, horrendous in the first 15 min. However, we got a point against one of the top clubs, and hopefully with Gordon and Santos available we'll be better than last night going forward.

Carts
04-14-2011, 10:47 AM
If I would have said in preseason that we would will be beaten only once in our first five games I think the over whelming majority of you would have taken it in a heartbeat.

So enjoy the fact that our actual record is not bad. Who among us expected more after five games? and if so, WHY?

I love the fact we have a staff in place that has a vision, can teach, and demands players to compete - and b/c of that, we have a competitive squad that is 'out performing our own roster'...

I say that meaning, if you took our roster on paper and went head-to-head with other teams we'd lose most games BUT in actual competition we battle, play our system and compete...

That is something that shouldn't be overlooked...

Last night, Frei was Frei (excellent) and the boys busted their asses against a squad that was ahead of them on paper (some luck with the woodwork!)...

They also stuck to the system and game plan that was put in place (yes they strayed out of formation at times but w/e)...

They FOUGHT and BATTLED...

That's what I LOVED about last night...

Carts...

backbeat
04-14-2011, 10:47 AM
Every time someone says something good about him its "...if we get THIS he'll be better..."

WHEN WILL HE BE BETTER???

but i was saying that i thought he was good last night - nothing wrong with getting better - he's not match fit yet and obviously adding a strong AM would improve his options...

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 10:48 AM
Then everyone was saying after we lost DeRo that we would be losing games 3-0

I know for me personally, that's never been my opinion. Holding teams to no goals or 1 goal is pretty common in MLS. It's scoring that's more difficult and we're still pretty average right now. I guess we should be happy with that?


If I would have said in preseason that we would will be beaten only once in our first five games I think the over whelming majority of you would have taken it in a heartbeat.

That's called low expectations and I think TFC have done a marvellous job beating us into submission with this and almost completely eliminating any demands for excellence. We have officially become the Leafs.


So enjoy the fact that our actual record is not bad. Who among us expected more after five games? and if so, WHY?

At the moment, we're en route for 36 points. It's actually below my expectations as per my preseason prediction but pretty much on par with where we should be after deciding to write off the year and completely rebuild. I don't know what exactly about that I should be ecstatic about.

Jack
04-14-2011, 10:53 AM
You're looking from the "HE'S OUR OWN" and "CANADIAN JDG" eyes I'm affraid...

That pass to the 4th Officials Tables was SPOT ON...

If he was an import - people would be calling for his head!

Gave the ball away several times - beaten in the air - lost his man - and was in "no mans land" when LA attacked...

People will say "Carts hates JDG" but honestly - as I asked my former coach who has seasons what he thought, he was he was "ordinary if not poor"...

Love him all you want guys, if he wasn't Canadian or a DP you'd be screaming for him to be cut...

Sad, but unfortunately TRUE... :(

DAMN I WISH HE WAS BETTER...

He got the name of "great player" when young, and since has played with top players and looked good - now that he is not around a TOP lineup he looks like he is - JUST NOT THAT GOOD...

My favourite is "DID YOU SEE THAT TURN" or "LOOK AT THAT QUALITY". Well, Gargan had two good turns and touches, I had one in men's league, Cann was MOM, but no - if JDG does 4 good things all match - HE'S AWESOME!

4 solid things does not make a GREAT PLAYER... If they did, GARGAN for DP...!!!!

Lost in defence when LA attacked (isn't he a defensive mid), lost balls in the air (oh he's short give him a break), two great turns (that amounted to nothing unfortunately), a pass to NOBODY (well the 4th officials table was RED so that's ok), a pass to LA (WAIT, nobody was running for him!!!)...

Keep making excuses guys... Keep going... :(

Carts...
It has nothing to do with him being "our own". JDG did far more than 4 good things all match. And I find it funny that you dismiss my analysis of his game so easily. It shows you have little respect for my knowledge of the game if you think I just defend him because he's Canadian and a DP.

I freely confess to being a big fan of the DM position and the role. I really enjoy watching players in that position, which rarely gets the recognition it deserves.

Some of your comments about JDG are just right out of left field. How do you think he got into a top lineup? By not being good? How do you think he became MVP of a top-half team in Spain? By not being good?

The position he plays is not one that is going to give you the spectacular offensive plays, or make highlight reels. But he makes a ton of little plays during the course of a game that affect the outcome in a positive manner. Does he make mistakes and miss some passes during a game? Fucking right he does. So does the best player in the world.

Watch closer and re-watch what he does. Look at yesterday's game and look at the SJ game. I will say it again: without him in the lineup yesterday, I'd put money on us losing that game.

Pigfynn
04-14-2011, 10:54 AM
How do you do that little pieces of my posts in quotes thing?

I want to do that too! I want to take little pieces of shit that people say and annoy them with it.

Can you teach me?

I'm tired of the dissection Roogsy. Does it never just get tiring?

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 10:57 AM
How do you do that little pieces of my posts in quotes thing?

I want to do that too! I want to take little pieces of shit that people say and annoy them with it.

Can you teach me?

I'm tired of the dissection Roogsy. Does it never just get tiring?

Nope. Because it breaks down people's arguments and reveals the true validity of their arguments. These boards are full of rhetoric and grandiose statements that are meant to beat people into submission into agreeing as opposed to arguing in a factual manner that creates positions that carry some merit.

levyashin
04-14-2011, 10:57 AM
would mr.molinaro please write an article on the standard required of league officials because from here they are absolute CRAP.thanking you ,in anticipation.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 10:57 AM
Pigfynn...

Learn this...

[ quote ]

[ /quote ]

tfcleeds
04-14-2011, 10:59 AM
I know for me personally, that's never been my opinion. Holding teams to no goals or 1 goal is pretty common in MLS. It's scoring that's more difficult and we're still pretty average right now. I guess we should be happy with that?



That's called low expectations and I think TFC have done a marvellous job beating us into submission with this and almost completely eliminating any demands for excellence. We have officially become the Leafs.



At the moment, we're en route for 36 points. It's actually below my expectations as per my preseason prediction but pretty much on par with where we should be after deciding to write off the year and completely rebuild. I don't know what exactly about that I should be ecstatic about.

Pretty much have to agree with this. Look at who we've played. Two expansion teams, a poor Chivas side, an LA team without Donovan that has struggled to impress so far this season. San Jose has been arguably the best team we've faced so far, and the performance there was very good IMO.

But 1 loss in 5 games against this opposition is nothing to get unduly excited about. If we go thru the next 5 games only losing one, maybe I'll allow myself to get a little excited.

Pigfynn
04-14-2011, 11:01 AM
Nope. Because it breaks down people's arguments and reveals the true validity of their arguments.


ya!

ya man....ok

This team sucks, MLSE sucks, We suck, This sucks, I give up, we should give up. We are mindless cheerleaders that follow a money grubbing corporation who have us all brain washed.

They killed the golden goose, the end in neigh... etc, etc, etc.


or.......OR


We are simply football supporters. People who the entire world over have had to endure these types of troubles for 100 years. We are just fans....just people who keep supporting.

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:04 AM
The difference is that some football supporters demand excellence and are committed to it, and others decide support is to accept whatever the team does regardless of results. I am not saying you have to be one or the other, but I know which one I choose to be and I am not telling you which one to be. That doesn't mean I can't make my point just like you can.

My support is primarly given to the players on the field. When they play on our behalf, they represent us, our city and thus I support them and show it. I don't see management throwing on jerseys and playing a position so I feel no need to support their decisions unless I agree with them. And there is very little I have agreed with in a long time.

johnmolinaro
04-14-2011, 11:05 AM
would mr.molinaro please write an article on the standard required of league officials because from here they are absolute CRAP.thanking you ,in anticipation.

For sure. I have a lot on my plate right now, but I will do my best to tackle this issue by season's end.

JM

Carts
04-14-2011, 11:06 AM
It has nothing to do with him being "our own". JDG did far more than 4 good things all match. And I find it funny that you dismiss my analysis of his game so easily. It shows you have little respect for my knowledge of the game if you think I just defend him because he's Canadian and a DP.

I freely confess to being a big fan of the DM position and the role. I really enjoy watching players in that position, which rarely gets the recognition it deserves.

Some of your comments about JDG are just right out of left field. How do you think he got into a top lineup? By not being good? How do you think he became MVP of a top-half team in Spain? By not being good?

The position he plays is not one that is going to give you the spectacular offensive plays, or make highlight reels. But he makes a ton of little plays during the course of a game that affect the outcome in a positive manner. Does he make mistakes and miss some passes during a game? Fucking right he does. So does the best player in the world.

Watch closer and re-watch what he does. Look at yesterday's game and look at the SJ game. I will say it again: without him in the lineup yesterday, I'd put money on us losing that game.

Jack, c'mon, sports arguement - don't take it personal...

B/c honestly, I only argue with people I respect (I always say if someone doesn't matter - neither does their opinion)...

This is the reason I'm having a go - b/c I know you know the game, and I know you care, and I know you watch as I do (I re-watched the game this morning and last night, I watched JDG for a 15-min chunk in the first half, missed a lot of action just watching him)...

As a player who played at a very high level, I just don't see what you do...

I was a centre back for years and years, and wore the Maple Leaf (not Maple Leaf Soccer Club from Vaughan - CANADA'S Maple Leaf when a teenager) and just don't see the amount of positives lumped on JDG...

I was taught the defensive holding role, I played it when pushed into the position on certain teams and times - and I just don't see what you guys are... :(

But thats sports! A lot of times people see different things - hell scouts make a living find diamonds right!

Like I said in a PM to someone, I hope, beg, pray, that JDG makes me come on here and say "shit I was wrong, what a game by the kid!" but he hasn't done that yet...

Carts...

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:08 AM
Honestly, I think JDG is a good player who does not fit MLS's physical play. On a fluid team, I think he can be useful. In MLS, there just isn't the kind of fluidity available for him to make an impact. I simply don't have hope for him to make a case this year for an extension of his DP contract and to be honest, I'd expect him to start looking to move elsewhere once the mid-year point is behind us.

We applaud him for making plays we should be expecting him to make. As a DP, I expect a player to make an impact, be a game-changer, not just play his position competently.

Pigfynn
04-14-2011, 11:10 AM
The difference is that some football supporters demand excellence and are committed to it, and others decide support is to accept whatever the team does regardless of results. I am not saying you have to be one or the other, but I know which one I choose to be and I am not telling you which one to be. That doesn't mean I can't make my point just like you can.

My support is primarly given to the players on the field. When they play on our behalf, they represent us, our city and thus I support them and show it. I don't see management throwing on jerseys and playing a position so I feel no need to support their decisions unless I agree with them. And there is very little I have agreed with in a long time.

Cool,

how about a few posts about this rather than constant dissection of other poeple's posts that drives everyone fucking crazy.

my 2 cents.

Pigfynn
04-14-2011, 11:10 AM
Honestly, I think JDG is a good player who does not fit MLS's physical play. On a fluid team, I think he can be useful. In MLS, there just isn't the kind of fluidity available for him to make an impact. I simply don't have hope for him to make a case this year for an extension of his DP contract and to be honest, I'd expect him to start looking to move elsewhere once the mid-year point is behind us.

We applaud him for making plays we should be expecting him to make. As a DP, I expect a player to make an impact, not just play his position competently.

There ya go!

jabbronies
04-14-2011, 11:10 AM
Jack, c'mon, sports arguement - don't take it personal...

B/c honestly, I only argue with people I respect (I always say if someone doesn't matter - neither does their opinion)...

This is the reason I'm having a go - b/c I know you know the game, and I know you care, and I know you watch as I do (I re-watched the game this morning and last night, I watched JDG for a 15-min chunk in the first half, missed a lot of action just watching him)...

As a player who played at a very high level, I just don't see what you do...

I was a centre back for years and years, and wore the Maple Leaf (not Maple Leaf Soccer Club from Vaughan - CANADA'S Maple Leaf when a teenager) and just don't see the amount of positives lumped on JDG...

I was taught the defensive holding role, I played it when pushed into the position on certain teams and times - and I just don't see what you guys are... :(

But thats sports! A lot of times people see different things - hell scouts make a living find diamonds right!

Like I said in a PM to someone, I hope, beg, pray, that JDG makes me come on here and say "shit I was wrong, what a game by the kid!" but he hasn't done that yet...

Carts...

If jdg was making a quarter of what he is making now, I don't think you'd have the same view on him. yes he is overpaid, but take that away and I'm sure you'd see he had a decent game.

Carts
04-14-2011, 11:10 AM
Pretty much have to agree with this. Look at who we've played. Two expansion teams, a poor Chivas side, an LA team without Donovan that has struggled to impress so far this season. San Jose has been arguably the best team we've faced so far, and the performance there was very good IMO.

But 1 loss in 5 games against this opposition is nothing to get unduly excited about. If we go thru the next 5 games only losing one, maybe I'll allow myself to get a little excited.

We all want Greg to get excited - so we need to get results in the next 4-of-5 games...

I say that b/c the poor chap was beside me at Scallys during an EPL match and had to listen to me cheer and yap at an unGodly level for 90-mins... :D

Carts...

Jack
04-14-2011, 11:12 AM
Jack, c'mon, sports arguement - don't take it personal...

B/c honestly, I only argue with people I respect (I always say if someone doesn't matter - neither does their opinion)...

This is the reason I'm having a go - b/c I know you know the game, and I know you care, and I know you watch as I do (I re-watched the game this morning and last night, I watched JDG for a 15-min chunk in the first half, missed a lot of action just watching him)...

As a player who played at a very high level, I just don't see what you do...

I was a centre back for years and years, and wore the Maple Leaf (not Maple Leaf Soccer Club from Vaughan - CANADA'S Maple Leaf when a teenager) and just don't see the amount of positives lumped on JDG...

I was taught the defensive holding role, I played it when pushed into the position on certain teams and times - and I just don't see what you guys are... :(

But thats sports! A lot of times people see different things - hell scouts make a living find diamonds right!

Like I said in a PM to someone, I hope, beg, pray, that JDG makes me come on here and say "shit I was wrong, what a game by the kid!" but he hasn't done that yet...

Carts...

Fair enough. We should probably argue this over pints :drinking:

That said, you didn't answer my questions about how JDG managed to scam himself an MVP award on a top-half team in one of the top 3 leagues in the world. There's something there, regardless of whether you think he's putting it on display or not.

Carts
04-14-2011, 11:13 AM
If jdg was making a quarter of what he is making now, I don't think you'd have the same view on him. yes he is overpaid, but take that away and I'm sure you'd see he had a decent game.

If he was making $250,000 he would be overpaid in the Salary Cap system...

At $150,000 it would be adequate for the cap hit and return (but not ideal)...

Less than that (say $125,000-$100,000) he would be at par for the performance thus far (if not a little below, but I'll give the past a little respect for the $$$)...

Carts...

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:13 AM
Cool,

how about a few posts about this rather than constant dissection of other poeple's posts that drives everyone fucking crazy.

my 2 cents.

It only drives crazy people who make the posts I am breaking down. Some people actually appreciate (sometimes) what I write.

As for writing posts about the players and about support, I do that. I actively participate in the chants and banners threads. And obviously when DeRo was here I supported him fully. Now that he is gone, I will support the players here when I feel they are unfairly treated. Right now we are all doing such a good job giving virtual fellatios to practically everyone wearing TFC red that frankly, I don't see the need for one more online blow job.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 11:15 AM
We applaud him for making plays we should be expecting him to make. As a DP, I expect a player to make an impact, be a game-changer, not just play his position competently.

What say you of Thierry Henry then......:D

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:16 AM
If he was making $250,000 he would be overpaid in the Salary Cap system...

At $150,000 it would be adequate for the cap hit and return (but not ideal)...

Less than that (say $125,000-$100,000) he would be at par for the performance thus far (if not a little below, but I'll give the past a little respect for the $$$)...

Carts...


Actually competent holding midfielders are fairly well-paid in this league starting with our own Robbo for example and moving on to Shalrie Joseph and "Peckerhead" Beckerman. So for a competent DM, I'd pay 250-max cap salary and feel they are appropriately compensated. However, a DP contract should really go to a forward that can change a game on a dime. Usually defensive players can't do that from moment to moment, they are there to hold the fort over the duration of the game until the forwards do their thing.

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:17 AM
What say you of Thierry Henry then......:D


He's been here long enough to make an impact and has not. I would call him a bust at this point. Just as much as our own JDG unfortunately.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 11:17 AM
That getting a DP is hit or miss.... regardless of which team you support.

johnmolinaro
04-14-2011, 11:17 AM
Below is a copy of an email I just sent to MLS officials (Toronto FC was also copied on the email), just to let you know this whole locker-room issue is now over and everyone has moved on.


Will,

Since I previously registered my complaints to you about the
locker-room issue, I thought it only fair that I bring to your attention
the outstanding efforts of TFC and their staff after last night's game
at BMO Field.

Not only did we have locker-room access again, but they allowed us to
get players in the gym after the game. So now we have more options than
we did before.

In fact, a player I wanted to talk to was not in the gym after the
game. A TFC official walked with me into the locker-room and made sure I
was able to interview him. That went above and beyond the call of duty.

Just wanted to pass this along.

Cheers,

John F. Molinaro

Whoop
04-14-2011, 11:17 AM
How about Rafa Marquez as DP?

Whoop
04-14-2011, 11:18 AM
Thank John... I guess not everything is doom and gloom.

I still think that was all a deflection tactic.

Carts
04-14-2011, 11:20 AM
Fair enough. We should probably argue this over pints :drinking:

That said, you didn't answer my questions about how JDG managed to scam himself an MVP award on a top-half team in one of the top 3 leagues in the world. There's something there, regardless of whether you think he's putting it on display or not.

Stop talking good things! (ie: pints!) :D

The MVP award - he probably earned it with great play and dominated the league earning the mvp award (I didn't watch enough to say)...

I'm always critical of the "past" b/c I saw it alot growing up. "Joe Smith" was amazing last year, he's starting in the mid - even though he spent the summer eating McD's and is slow as f*ck now LOL...

I also have seen guys get the name early, and then play with the big club and look "decent" or even "excellent" b/c of the players around them...

A GREAT player MAKES everyone else great (or at least good)...

A DECENT player plays to level of the players around him...

So far, JDG has proved to be decent - playing to level to his teammates (which everyone has admitted over and over with "if we had better players he'd be better")...

jabbronies
04-14-2011, 11:20 AM
If he was making $250,000 he would be overpaid in the Salary Cap system...

At $150,000 it would be adequate for the cap hit and return (but not ideal)...

Less than that (say $125,000-$100,000) he would be at par for the performance thus far (if not a little below, but I'll give the past a little respect for the $$$)...

Carts...

And how would you describe his performance from last nights game...which was what I'm trying to get from you...:o

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:20 AM
How about Rafa Marquez as DP?


That one I understand. Rafa is a player that can also make an impact on the offensive end not to mention provide the link necessary from the backfield to the forwards. As a 2nd DP I like the idea, even if it is misused on a team where the 1st DP is sucking it up...however as a 1st DP signing, Rafa would be just as big a mistake. It would be a waste of his abilities.

Once NY gets their forward situation sorted out (with or without Henry) I would expect Rafa's impact to be noticeable and NY to excel.

Carts
04-14-2011, 11:20 AM
That getting a DP is hit or miss....

That's what she said! :D

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 11:21 AM
That getting a DP is hit or miss.... regardless of which team you support.

Exactly......I am sure if you go around the league from year top year and team to team....every supporter is having the same discussion about their DP.....even Beckham has not been immune to criticism from LA supporters....It seems unless you get a complete stud in his prime you are taking a gamble...and even then it is a crap shoot.....


He's been here long enough to make an impact and has not. I would call him a bust at this point. Just as much as our own JDG unfortunately.

I hate you......:D

Being probably the biggest fan of his from wayyyyy back I have to agree he hasn't played up to what I have wanted from him....will that change? Only time will tell.....

jabbronies
04-14-2011, 11:24 AM
Actually competent holding midfielders are fairly well-paid in this league starting with our own Robbo for example and moving on to Shalrie Joseph and "Peckerhead" Beckerman. So for a competent DM, I'd pay 250-max cap salary and feel they are appropriately compensated. However, a DP contract should really go to a forward that can change a game on a dime. Usually defensive players can't do that from moment to moment, they are there to hold the fort over the duration of the game until the forwards do their thing.

A DP defensive midfielder should be able to do that.
Break up the play just above the box and quickly counter into an offensive attack.

Wull
04-14-2011, 11:24 AM
As one of jdg's biggest critics, I have to say that aside from 2-3 stray passes last night I thought he did well, if his play improves along with his fitness he'll be one of the better DMs in the league. He wasn't getting dumped on his ass, he was throwing himself into tackles, he created space for himself by turning on numerous occasions and people weren't running by him without being challenged this time. I'm not won over yet but I have no complaints about how he played last night aside from the odd stray pass

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 11:25 AM
Why are all the mods arguing with each other......haha

Stouffville_RPB
04-14-2011, 11:25 AM
Isn't that something, eh?

I remember John Molinaro writing on here that it wasn't his job to make TFC successful, it was his job to report on it.

We know there is a bit of a pissing match with the club over access and that in this town, negativity sells. With all that in mind, this is what he chooses to report on:

"But in reality the glass is half empty, this performance representing a backwards step..."

"Toronto's lack of offensive depth was brutally laid bare for all to see on this night."

"Serb newcomer never really influenced the game as he was deprived of quality service..."

"... tactical switch did not pay off, though. TFC's defenders looked disorganized and clueless"

"Julian de Guzman failed to make an impression..."


And with all that "evidence" of a punchless performance, who can resist a parting (personal?) shot at the recent target of your media ban?

"Curiously, Toronto coach Aron Winter thinks his team has sufficient quality attacking options..."


John, I like your writing. But you are right. Your job is to report on the game, not inject your own personal bias into the coverage. I don't expect the media to be cheerleaders but I also expect that the full story will be presented.

If you see a full 90 of crap, report it as such. If you see half and half, please consider reporting the full picture.

I do find it ironic that you stated it wasn't your job to make TFC successful.

If the media ends up killing the team with negativity, what exactly will be your job going forward?


I've found that John's writing has gotten to be overly positive towards Vancouver (who also have 1 win and less points in 5 games than TFC) and just shitting on TFC. It has got to the point where I don't even click his stories anymore and no longer follow him on twitter.

Last night was a solid result in my opinion and that is all he can come up with. Going up against a very strong LA team with our squad that we all acknowledge is a work in progress and we hold them scoreless. We didn't do it by playing 10 men behind the ball either, we attacked and had our chances to score.

De Guzman failed to make an impression? He was constantly an outlet for the defenders who are not the most comfortable with the ball at their feet. He provided stability on the ball when we needed it.

Carts
04-14-2011, 11:26 AM
And how would you describe his performance from last nights game...which was what I'm trying to get from you...:o

On a dollar value - YIKES low...

He didn't command and take control of the position like (I'll be honest) I want it...

I see the def-mid as a leader, holding the match in the palm of their hand...

Personally, pretty much anyone on our roster with defensvie mid experience could have filled the role with the same effect on the match JDG had...

Not bad, not great, just there... EXPOSED on some attacks by LA by being in no mans land when LA had 4 forward (yes 4!) and lacking in any "initiations" to insert himself into the play positively...

Carts...

Jack
04-14-2011, 11:27 AM
Stop talking good things! (ie: pints!) :D

The MVP award - he probably earned it with great play and dominated the league earning the mvp award (I didn't watch enough to say)...

I'm always critical of the "past" b/c I saw it alot growing up. "Joe Smith" was amazing last year, he's starting in the mid - even though he spent the summer eating McD's and is slow as f*ck now LOL...

I also have seen guys get the name early, and then play with the big club and look "decent" or even "excellent" b/c of the players around them...

A GREAT player MAKES everyone else great (or at least good)...

A DECENT player plays to level of the players around him...

So far, JDG has proved to be decent - playing to level to his teammates (which everyone has admitted over and over with "if we had better players he'd be better")...

Then how do you explain Adrian Cann, for example, as well as Peterson and Tchani, both playing much better with JDG on the pitch, as evidenced by the vast improvement in the 2nd half of the SJ game as well as solid outings by all three players yesterday, a game in which JDG started and was vocal with them throughout? I have seen a definite improvement in our team's defensive half when he is on the field vs. when he is not. Of course, I'm not going to make a final call on this until I see more of him, but that has been my observation so far.

Carts
04-14-2011, 11:28 AM
Why are all the mods arguing with each other......haha

Mod fight! :D

Shall I insert some non-football talk to make it realistic...?

Yes...?

Ok...

BEER PRICES AT BMO SUCKS! (there - that's an arguement that someone will try and make lol) :D

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 11:29 AM
De Guzman failed to make an impression? He was constantly an outlet for the defenders who are not the most comfortable with the ball at their feet. He provided stability on the ball when we needed it.

I approve of this statement...as I sit right behind the south end goal and watch the defenders a lot play with the ball....last night JDG was the first man back to go to open space as an outlet for the defenders....a lot of times the defenders either didn't see him or they just hoofed it up regardless of making the simple pass to him...but he made himself available....and I know this because I have JDG radar......so take that to the bank. :)

Carts
04-14-2011, 11:29 AM
Then how do you explain Adrian Cann, for example, as well as Peterson and Tchani, both playing much better with JDG on the pitch, as evidenced by the vast improvement in the 2nd half of the SJ game as well as solid outings by all three players yesterday, a game in which JDG started and was vocal with them throughout? I have seen a definite improvement in our team's defensive half when he is on the field vs. when he is not. Of course, I'm not going to make a final call on this until I see more of him, but that has been my observation so far.

Cann - to be honest, he was just as good when JDG was on the pitch as off...

The others, I'd have to re-watch and focus on them - as they're not 'focus players' when just watching the play ya know...

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:29 AM
Being probably the biggest fan of his from wayyyyy back I have to agree he hasn't played up to what I have wanted from him....will that change? Only time will tell.....

Listen...if we had signed him to a moderate contract, something like DeRo's contract I think we would have had little to complain about. We'd have room to sign a valid DP, we'd have both JDG and DeRo still on the roster and we'd have much less drama all around TFC in general.

It is proper employee management to know how to "handle" your commodity, your staff. Most big companies spend millions of dollars making sure there is equity and fair treatment among their staff and when something comes up, good companies snuff it out instantly. If there is one big complaint I have about TFC is that they have not learned to manage their commodity, their players, properly. Sure they know how to put a slick marketing campaign together. Sure they know how to send us nice little season ticket packages in the mail. But they have not learned to manage their employees properly. It has led to almost every drama surrounding TFC since the beginning.

Learning how to create a positive atmosphere in the lockerroom and content employees is a must for a successful team. Even Whoopee and I agree on this one. Successful teams depend on that almost as much as having star players. TFC have never been able to arrange that (and I would argue still haven't). Until they do, it does not matter who we bring in, JDG, DeRo, Stefa, Beckham, Messi, Ronaldo etc. we will not be successful. I would bet you all the coffee at Tim Horton's that RSL has a successful lockerroom and positive player relations that is helping them with the results on the pitch.

The JDG situation as a whole was awful, awful human resources management. I knew it from day 1.

Jack
04-14-2011, 11:30 AM
As one of jdg's biggest critics, I have to say that aside from 2-3 stray passes last night I thought he did well, if his play improves along with his fitness he'll be one of the better DMs in the league. He wasn't getting dumped on his ass, he was throwing himself into tackles, he created space for himself by turning on numerous occasions and people weren't running by him without being challenged this time. I'm not won over yet but I have no complaints about how he played last night aside from the odd stray pass

Another thing I've noticed about him is he gets to a surprising number of headers despite being so damn short.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 11:33 AM
Personally, pretty much anyone on our roster with defensvie mid experience could have filled the role with the same effect on the match JDG had...

This I can agree with( to an extent), but refer to my previous post as to why I agree with it......but still don't think anyone on our roster would have been a better option.

And I agree with Jack...that game last night has a different outcome with him not starting. And it is not positive.

Jack
04-14-2011, 11:33 AM
I'll add that precisely because JDG is our DP, I have been watching him very closely both live and on TV.

I also think Roogsy's opinions are coloured by a healthy (unhealthy?) dose of bitterness. Which isn't altogether unreasonable, considering the shitshow of the MoJo "era".

Roogs, I hope you're at Joe's for el Clasico on Saturday.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 11:35 AM
Listen...if we had signed him to a moderate contract, something like DeRo's contract I think we would have had little to complain about. We'd have room to sign a valid DP, we'd have both JDG and DeRo still on the roster and we'd have much less drama all around TFC in general.

It is proper employee management to know how to "handle" your commodity, your staff. Most big companies spend millions of dollars making sure there is equity and fair treatment among their staff and when something comes up, good companies snuff it out instantly. If there is one big complaint I have about TFC is that they have not learned to manage their commodity, their players, properly. Sure they know how to put a slick marketing campaign together. Sure they know how to send us nice little season ticket packages in the mail. But they have not learned to manage their employees properly. It has led to almost every drama surrounding TFC since the beginning.

Learning how to create a positive atmosphere in the lockerroom and content employees is a must for a successful team. Even Whoopee and I agree on this one. Successful teams depend on that almost as much as having star players. TFC have never been able to arrange that (and I would argue still haven't). Until they do, it does not matter who we bring in, JDG, DeRo, Stefa, Beckham, Messi, Ronaldo etc. we will not be successful. I would bet you all the coffee at Tim Horton's that RSL has a successful lockerroom and positive player relations that is helping them with the results on the pitch.

The JDG situation as a whole was awful, awful human resources management. I knew it from day 1.

I can't disagree with that.

Rightly or wrongly, the JDG signing created turmoil within TFC for upsetting the balance in the locker room.

Like Roogsy says, it was poor asset management which led to a lot of fallout.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 11:41 AM
I can't disagree with that.

Rightly or wrongly, the JDG signing created turmoil within TFC for upsetting the balance in the locker room.

Like Roogsy says, it was poor asset management which led to a lot of fallout.

you guys are right upper management let this happen.that and JDG just has a good agent. :)

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:43 AM
I'll add that precisely because JDG is our DP, I have been watching him very closely both live and on TV.

I also think Roogsy's opinions are coloured by a healthy (unhealthy?) dose of bitterness. Which isn't altogether unreasonable, considering the shitshow of the MoJo "era".

Roogs, I hope you're at Joe's for el Clasico on Saturday.


With a baby, I am watching most games from home these days.

As for my bitterness, I don't deny there is bitterness there but I think there is valid reason to be. TFC (and MLSE) have continuously asked fans for patience. Once again, Brian Burke stood in front of media and arrogantly told everyone he doesn't care for their opinion and marches on after 3 seasons in charge and no playoffs, but "we just missed it". Sound familiar? That's the culture at MLSE that I desperately wanted to avoid at TFC and yet here we are, year 5 in the middle of a rebuild that nobody can guarantee will have success and I am facing the very real prospect of no playoffs this year and we go into our 6th year still a "work in progress". What other team in MLS has missed playoffs for this amount of time? And we are supposed to continue to be patient? It's almost like our reward for being the best fans in MLS is to have to also be the most patient. Some of the worst fans in MLS have not had to wait this long for even just a glimpse of competency from their team. So yeah...I am bitter. And TFC hasn't shown me anything to make me feel better. A new coach? New system? New players? Sounds like last year, and where did it get us?

Whoop
04-14-2011, 11:45 AM
Didn't NY suck for a long, long, long time?

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:47 AM
Didn't NY suck for a long, long, long time?


NY has had years where they sucked followed by years where they did well. They went from MLS CUp finals to the worst record in MLS. Theirs has been a roller-coaster, but at least one with some measure of success. Our has been a roller-coaster with ZERO success.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 11:48 AM
I think that's more the NYRB era.

The Metrostars era... not so bright. LOL

Roogsy
04-14-2011, 11:52 AM
I think that's more the NYRB era.

The Metrostars era... not so bright. LOL


True...but hardly "TFC" level ineptitude.

Jack
04-14-2011, 11:55 AM
With a baby, I am watching most games from home these days.

As for my bitterness, I don't deny there is bitterness there but I think there is valid reason to be. TFC (and MLSE) have continuously asked fans for patience. Once again, Brian Burke stood in front of media and arrogantly told everyone he doesn't care for their opinion and marches on after 3 seasons in charge and no playoffs, but "we just missed it". Sound familiar? That's the culture at MLSE that I desperately wanted to avoid at TFC and yet here we are, year 5 in the middle of a rebuild that nobody can guarantee will have success and I am facing the very real prospect of no playoffs this year and we go into our 6th year still a "work in progress". What other team in MLS has missed playoffs for this amount of time? And we are supposed to continue to be patient? It's almost like our reward for being the best fans in MLS is to have to also be the most patient. Some of the worst fans in MLS have not had to wait this long for even just a glimpse of competency from their team. So yeah...I am bitter. And TFC hasn't shown me anything to make me feel better. A new coach? New system? New players? Sounds like last year, and where did it get us?

I'm pretty sure I validated your bitterness in my post :D

I agree we need to proceed with caution. But getting MoJo out of the way was a huge step for our team. So far, I like what I see from the new regime a lot more than what we saw from Preki/MoJo last season. The difference for me is the "feel". Will it last? Let's see.

I've given them this season to convince me and so far, they've done a decent job of doing so. We'll see if that continues.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 11:56 AM
The common denominator with both TFC's struggles and NY's struggles.

Mo Johnston

No surprise that NY started turning around when he left. LOL

Hopefully the same holds true with TFC.

Oldtimer
04-14-2011, 12:00 PM
^ NY struggled long before Mo came. Mo just continued the tradition of ineptitude.

... and the relationship with supporters in the MetroStars era was toxic.

The most inept team in MLS history prior to TFC was RSL, which lasted for the first 3 years of their existence. They still hold one of the all-time "suck" records (continuous scoreless streak crossing seasons).

Their ownership realized that they needed "a new beginning" one year earlier than Anselmi did.
Think where we would be if we had just skipped the Preki era, and still had Amado and Cronin. The rebuilding task would have been that much easier.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 12:07 PM
I know.

I never want TFC to get to that state, which is where I agree with Roogsy.

But at this stage it's like yelling at a bricklayer to put up the wall faster after they had to knock the house down because the architect fucked up.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 12:15 PM
FYI for those interested.



Nigel_Reed (http://twitter.com/#%21/Nigel_Reed) Nigel Reed


Special edition of #TheSoccerShow (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23TheSoccerShow) tonight 8e @FAN590 (http://twitter.com/FAN590) Aron Winter & Paul Mariner of @torontofc (http://twitter.com/torontofc) live in studio. Tweet me your questions #TFC (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23TFC)

Pigfynn
04-14-2011, 12:29 PM
I'm pretty sure I validated your bitterness in my post :D

I agree we need to proceed with caution. But getting MoJo out of the way was a huge step for our team. So far, I like what I see from the new regime a lot more than what we saw from Preki/MoJo last season. The difference for me is the "feel". Will it last? Let's see.

I've given them this season to convince me and so far, they've done a decent job of doing so. We'll see if that continues.

Soooooooooo let's be positive until it's time to not be.


Right?


I can post pick too!!!!!!

:scarf:

Carts
04-14-2011, 12:32 PM
This I can agree with( to an extent), but refer to my previous post as to why I agree with it......but still don't think anyone on our roster would have been a better option.

And I agree with Jack...that game last night has a different outcome with him not starting. And it is not positive.

Hey! The only thing you're allowed to agree with me on is Durham is awesome...!!! :D

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 12:34 PM
Hey! The only thing you're allowed to agree with me on is Durham is awesome...!!! :D

Noted....it will never happen again.

Carts
04-14-2011, 12:34 PM
I can post pick too!!!!!!

:scarf:

"Post pick" - with or without penetration? (Seinfeld Reference!!!!)

:D

Pachuco
04-14-2011, 12:41 PM
Exactly......I am sure if you go around the league from year top year and team to team....every supporter is having the same discussion about their DP.....even Beckham has not been immune to criticism from LA supporters....It seems unless you get a complete stud in his prime you are taking a gamble...and even then it is a crap shoot.....



I hate you......:D

Being probably the biggest fan of his from wayyyyy back I have to agree he hasn't played up to what I have wanted from him....will that change? Only time will tell.....

Sure but Henry and Beckham bring something to the league that JDG doesn't. That is they raise the awareness of the league, and that was one of the primary goals of the DP rule. While they may not raise the level of play, they still raise awareness. JDG does neither. He's been here long enough to say that as a DP he's been a bust on the field. Off the field, I don't think many casual Toronto fans know who this dude is let alone other casual fans in the league.

So I'll be happy if JDG plays the way he did in San Jose for the rest of the year. But one thing is for sure in my mind, there is no way we can bring him back as a DP next year again (if his contract really does expire this year). If he wants to stay and take a massive pay cut then fine. But no way anyone will convince me we should be considering keeping him at the current price.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 12:42 PM
I agree.

I can't see JDG being a DP next season.

jabbronies
04-14-2011, 12:45 PM
Sorry Roogsy/McCartney - It sounds like your opinions of JDG on the field are fueled more by the financial aspects of his contract in relation to others in the MLS rather than his actual play.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 12:46 PM
Sure but Henry and Beckham bring something to the league that JDG doesn't. That is they raise the awareness of the league, and that was one of the primary goals of the DP rule. While they may not raise the level of play, they still raise awareness. JDG does neither. He's been here long enough to say that as a DP he's been a bust on the field. Off the field, I don't think many casual Toronto fans know who this dude is let alone other casual fans in the league.

So I'll be happy if JDG plays the way he did in San Jose for the rest of the year. But one thing is for sure in my mind, there is no way we can bring him back as a DP next year again (if his contract really does expire this year). If he wants to stay and take a massive pay cut then fine. But no way anyone will convince me we should be considering keeping him at the current price.

And what does price matter to you and I? We don't sign his paycheque? And other than Henry and Beckham what other DP signing so far have raised the awareness of the league? probably 99% of the fans or this league couldn't name anyone other than Beckham as a DP. You are reaching there......that in my opinion is an old definition of what a DP is supposed to be doing. Personally I would like my DP to improve the team I support....I could care less what he does for the league....has JDG played up to what I expect of him......again I say NO....but to me it doesn't matter what he is paid. It his what he does....and I hope he does better.

Carts
04-14-2011, 12:47 PM
Sorry Roogsy/McCartney - It sounds like your opinions of JDG on the field are fueled more by the financial aspects of his contract in relation to others in the MLS rather than his actual play.

No, not mine in regards to evaluation...

But to be honest, in a Salary Cap / Limited DP league - it has to be in consideration as it affects the club...

But...

Like I've said - I hope I am 100% wrong by the end of the next game I need to eat my words...!

I'm hoping he comes through and steps up!

C'mon Kid!!!

Carts...

Jack
04-14-2011, 12:47 PM
Sure but Henry and Beckham bring something to the league that JDG doesn't. That is they raise the awareness of the league, and that was one of the primary goals of the DP rule. While they may not raise the level of play, they still raise awareness. JDG does neither. He's been here long enough to say that as a DP he's been a bust on the field. Off the field, I don't think many casual Toronto fans know who this dude is let alone other casual fans in the league.

So I'll be happy if JDG plays the way he did in San Jose for the rest of the year. But one thing is for sure in my mind, there is no way we can bring him back as a DP next year again (if his contract really does expire this year). If he wants to stay and take a massive pay cut then fine. But no way anyone will convince me we should be considering keeping him at the current price.

I think it would take a monster season from him in order for him to continue as a DP next season.

That said, if he does stay, he'll likely get a very good chunk of money.

jabbronies
04-14-2011, 12:47 PM
I also get the feeling that a lot of people are still stuck in the Mo Johnston years with regards to judging this team. I think we need to start getting over it and start realizing that the lack of quality in our play has little to do with TFC being an incompetent organization and more to do with we're a new team learning a new system.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 12:48 PM
Yeah, but moving forward, I can't see JDG being paid a DP salary next season.

You don't want to restrict options.

jabbronies
04-14-2011, 12:48 PM
No, not mine in regards to evaluation...

But to be honest, in a Salary Cap / Limited DP league - it has to be in consideration as it affects the club...

But...

Like I've said - I hope I am 100% wrong by the end of the next game I need to eat my words...!

I'm hoping he comes through and steps up!

C'mon Kid!!!

Carts...

If the full DP salary didn't count at all against the cap - would your view of him/DP's change?

ManUtd4ever
04-14-2011, 12:52 PM
I also get the feeling that a lot of people are still stuck in the Mo Johnston years with regards to judging this team. I think we need to start getting over it and start realizing that the lack of quality in our play has little to do with TFC being an incompetent organization and more to do with we're a new team learning a new system.

I agree. After a disappointing result, it's easy to just go on an anti MLSE tirade because of the ineptitude of the franchise during the MoJo era, but that does little to actually offer any valuable insight as to the current state of the club. Winter and Mariner deserve to be judged based on their own success or failure.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 12:52 PM
But to be honest, in a Salary Cap / Limited DP league - it has to be in consideration as it affects the club...

Nothing to do with JDG in this comment I am about to lay out....but how many teams will employ 3 DP's????? And further to this...the player you decide is worthy of this contract has to agree to come.......there isn't a long list of top level talent wanting to come to the MLS at the moment.

....is JDG a DP? At this juncture on paper he is, but not in performance...is that hampering TFC from signing 2 more DP's? Possibly, but only one who knows the capology can speak to this...because I can't.

Carts
04-14-2011, 12:54 PM
If the full DP salary didn't count at all against the cap - would your view of him/DP's change?

My evaluation of his play would not...

He has the effect on the game he has... At $10-million or $10-bucks...

It is what it is...

At around $100,000 he'd be adequate for 'cap usage / impact to games' - but that's about it...

There's numerous $100,000 players in this league that could have the same impact...

We have players at around (+/-) $100,000 that have the same, and in times, more of an impact on the game (not saying "goals / saves" etc - I know the def-mid role and the impact it should have)....

Carts...

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 12:54 PM
Yeah, but moving forward, I can't see JDG being paid a DP salary next season.

You don't want to restrict options.

What restrictions? Only restriction I can see is if TFC is paying all these imports big dollar contracts that they just signed...then I can see it restricting TFC to an extent. But true......I don't see him getting DP dollars either as well...

Wull
04-14-2011, 12:55 PM
If the full DP salary didn't count at all against the cap - would your view of him/DP's change?

no, until now he's been a below-average DM regardless of salary/DP slot

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 12:55 PM
There's numerous $100,000 players in this league that could have the same impact...

Waiting for your list.....;) Not saying there isn't one, but would love to see you back this one up......:D

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 12:56 PM
no, until now he's been a below-average DM regardless of salary/DP slot

Fair enough....I will agree, but you seem to be one of the only ones not focusing on what he is paid.

Wull
04-14-2011, 12:58 PM
Fair enough....I will agree, but you seem to be one of the only ones not focusing on what he is paid.

it plays a part in my opinion of him, that's a big reason why I've been so hard on him since he got here. For that type of money i expect the DM to end all DMs in this league

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 01:06 PM
it plays a part in my opinion of him, that's a big reason why I've been so hard on him since he got here. For that type of money i expect the DM to end all DMs in this league

Marquez is probably the be all and end all of DMs, but is there no bravado and flash surrounding him? Maybe on the Red Bull boards, but you rarely hear that he was a monster in the game...Why...because his role is not a standout in the public eye role.....if he is effective the team is scored on less, passing to offense improves and the team overall benefits by his presence. JDG has not done this of course, but even if the team was scoring on all cylinders and JDG doesn't register a point on the season, we make the playoffs, etc, etc....does this conversation take place? I don't think so because he will have quietly fulfilled his role.....

Hopefully as the team gets all their acts together and everyone on the same page, no one will be saying anything about him.....I doubt it because too many people can't get past his pay, but that is the nature of sport and business. ROI is paramount. Offensive players get all the press and defenders and defensive mids get all the criticism because if goals go in it is always their fault...

Oldtimer
04-14-2011, 01:20 PM
People forget that when Robbo was here, his cap hit was quit large.

A solid DM is key to this system. If JDG steps it up and plays like he has the last little while, I would support him getting DP money (maybe not quite as high). If not him, then we're still going to end up paying DP money to get a Dutch DM to do the holding role.

What I'm more concerned about is our lack of a DP striker.

Nodoubtguy
04-14-2011, 01:22 PM
best thing I heard in the stands last night was how much of a waste JDG is because "he hasn't scored in like 4 years"....

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 01:27 PM
From what I saw last night JDG was getting the ball to the wingers, and forwards was he not.....? It seemed to fizzle from there....due to good defending, passing, etc....I could be wrong though as I am a fan, but enough as stubborn of a fan to point out when he plays like crap.

Gazza
04-14-2011, 01:32 PM
JDG's ball distribution was sporadic last night. And it's been abysmal for the most part since he's been here. He cannot tackle either. I've seen him play better on other teams before, which is why i gave him the benefit of the doubt when he debuted for tfc. But that benefit has worn thin. Then you add the fact that his pay cheque handcuffs the team's future plans, and that makes my image of him even worse.

He has improved over the past little while, but improvement is easy to spot when there's no where to go but up.

TFCRegina
04-14-2011, 01:42 PM
He made an impression on me...

Yet ANOTHER NEGATIVE IMPRESSION.. :(

Interesting. I thought JDG looked good out there.

Whoop
04-14-2011, 01:42 PM
You're not the only one Regina.

leafsman
04-14-2011, 01:45 PM
I too thought JDG looked good, he was the one guy who could move the ball around. How much does a DP count against the cap?

ManUtd4ever
04-14-2011, 01:48 PM
I thought JDG was our best player on the pitch last night.

Mikey
04-14-2011, 01:54 PM
I thought JDG was our best player on the pitch last night.
I thought it was Frei, again.

Pachuco
04-14-2011, 01:59 PM
And what does price matter to you and I? We don't sign his paycheque? And other than Henry and Beckham what other DP signing so far have raised the awareness of the league? probably 99% of the fans or this league couldn't name anyone other than Beckham as a DP. You are reaching there......that in my opinion is an old definition of what a DP is supposed to be doing. Personally I would like my DP to improve the team I support....I could care less what he does for the league....has JDG played up to what I expect of him......again I say NO....but to me it doesn't matter what he is paid. It his what he does....and I hope he does better.

Hey it's not me paying the cheques, so let's just give Gargan a raise to 400K. Why wouldn't the same apply? Because it's all about value is it not?

You can't ignore price in a salary capped league. Anyways, I trully believe you can replace JDG with 250K player. Heck, if Tchani develops into the player I think he'll develop into within the next year, then you don't even need a 250K player sitting beside Tchani. I would much rather we spend that kind of money on an attacking minded midfielder then re-signing him to a DP deal. You have to be crazy to sign JDG to another DP deal based on his strenths/weaknesses and based on the fact he's pretty one dimensional.

As for your comments around Rafa Marquez, I don't know, personally he's been a beast since he came to the MLS. He brings alot more to the MLS then JDG has. He's 3 dimensional, he can attack as good as any of them, he can defend as good as any of them and he is your go to guy for set pieces. That's what I expect when you get payed the big bucks.

By the way, you totally missed my point on Beckham raising the awareness of the league. What I said was, JDG does neither, he's been a bust on the field, and he doesn't raise awareness. Atleast Beckham and Henry can say they sell jerseys to make up for their lack of play on the field.

ManUtd4ever
04-14-2011, 02:01 PM
I thought it was Frei, again.

Frei was his usual self, but he only had to make the one brilliant save in the opening minutes. LA had a grand total of one shot on goal. I know Barrett and Beckham hit a post and a crossbar but I thought Ricketts was the busier of the two keepers last night.

Oldtimer
04-14-2011, 02:17 PM
JDG's ball distribution was sporadic last night. And it's been abysmal for the most part since he's been here.

Pretty unfair assessment. He played a very good game yesterday, his positioning was excellent, and he broke up a lot of LA's game. He had one errant pass, that hardly counts as "sporadic."

Where JDG is no good is in longballs, and that's all Preki had him doing last year. Short-passing game, he is excellent.

Pachuco
04-14-2011, 02:17 PM
Frei was his usual self, but he only had to make the one brilliant save in the opening minutes. LA had a grand total of one shot on goal. I know Barrett and Beckham hit a post and a crossbar but I thought Ricketts was the busier of the two keepers last night.

What about all the times he came out to grab a dangerous Beckham cross. There's no way RIcketts was the busier of the keepers. You are discounting all the times where Frei was all over Beckham's crosses.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 02:18 PM
Hey it's not me paying the cheques, so let's just give Gargan a raise to 400K. Why wouldn't the same apply? Because it's all about value is it not?

ha ha...well said and it is about value of course........I think this is something we can agree to disagree here. IF JDG was over performing and was a monster every match, but the team around him really did absolutely nothing would he be playing up to his value? People would still be saying he is not worth anything because the team isn't doing anything. He is only one man...like DeRo was only one man....the team as a whole needs to be better. How to solve that who knows....does a DP striker, defender, attacking mid change things...possibly, but who knows.


You can't ignore price in a salary capped league. Anyways, I trully believe you can replace JDG with 250K player. Heck, if Tchani develops into the player I think he'll develop into within the next year, then you don't even need a 250K player sitting beside Tchani. I would much rather we spend that kind of money on an attacking minded midfielder then re-signing him to a DP deal. You have to be crazy to sign JDG to another DP deal based on his strenths/weaknesses and based on the fact he's pretty one dimensional. Never said I'd re-sign him to another DP deal.......and I am hoping Tchani develops as well....but spending money on that attacking minded midfielder to fit the system isn't as easy as we all think and I know you know....the caliber of player we need seems to be hard to find...at least right now it is.


As for your comments around Rafa Marquez, I don't know, personally he's been a beast since he came to the MLS. He brings alot more to the MLS then JDG has. He's 3 dimensional, he can attack as good as any of them, he can defend as good as any of them and he is your go to guy for set pieces. That's what I expect when you get payed the big bucks.I agree with the Marquez being a beast since coming here yes...wasn't trying to compare the two talent wise, but just making the point that a DP isn't all flash and in the public eye....as far as I can see from articles Marquez is not a news maker, but has efficiently done his role and exceeded....again I stated that JDG up to this point has not.


By the way, you totally missed my point on Beckham raising the awareness of the league. What I said was, JDG does neither, he's been a bust on the field, and he doesn't raise awareness. Atleast Beckham and Henry can say they sell jerseys to make up for their lack of play on the field.Didn't miss it, but not sure how selling jerseys is seen as a bonus for their lack of play on the field? Sure it puts more money into the team's pockets, but the salary cap is still the salary cap....so not much bearing on anything. Unless mechandise sales are factored in when discussing CBA?

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 02:20 PM
What about all the times he came out to grab a dangerous Beckham cross. There's no way RIcketts was the busier of the keepers. You are discounting all the times where Frei was all over Beckham's crosses.

I gotta agree here.......Frei was all over the box on crosses and was very aggressive to cut them out. Ricketts had minimal work really other than a few flashes here and there...but he was positioned perfectly on our goal attempts.

Wull
04-14-2011, 02:23 PM
Marquez is probably the be all and end all of DMs, but is there no bravado and flash surrounding him? Maybe on the Red Bull boards, but you rarely hear that he was a monster in the game...Why...because his role is not a standout in the public eye role.....if he is effective the team is scored on less, passing to offense improves and the team overall benefits by his presence. JDG has not done this of course, but even if the team was scoring on all cylinders and JDG doesn't register a point on the season, we make the playoffs, etc, etc....does this conversation take place? I don't think so because he will have quietly fulfilled his role.....

Hopefully as the team gets all their acts together and everyone on the same page, no one will be saying anything about him.....I doubt it because too many people can't get past his pay, but that is the nature of sport and business. ROI is paramount. Offensive players get all the press and defenders and defensive mids get all the criticism because if goals go in it is always their fault...

I'm not looking for flash or bravado, what I'm looking for is the best player in that position in the league, one who reads the game the best, snuffs out danger the quickest, wins a really high percentage of tackles, organizes the players around him, doesn't get knocked off the ball etc.

I played that position since I was around 8, my teams have had solid players at that position going back years (Wilson at Airdrie, Carsley, Ebbrell, Parkinson, Neville at Everton, McCall, Lambert for Scotland and so on) so I'm not looking for goals. I don't expect JDG to be Vieira but I do expect him to be a Robbo with much improved distribution skills for that price.

ManUtd4ever
04-14-2011, 02:27 PM
What about all the times he came out to grab a dangerous Beckham cross. There's no way RIcketts was the busier of the keepers. You are discounting all the times where Frei was all over Beckham's crosses.

Fair enough, I was referring to actual shots on goal.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 02:29 PM
I'm not looking for flash or bravado, what I'm looking for is the best player in that position in the league, one who reads the game the best, snuffs out danger the quickest, wins a really high percentage of tackles, organizes the players around him, doesn't get knocked off the ball etc.

I played that position since I was around 8, my teams have had solid players at that position going back years (Wilson at Airdrie, Carsley, Ebbrell, Parkinson, Neville at Everton, McCall, Lambert for Scotland and so on) so I'm not looking for goals. I don't expect JDG to be Vieira but I do expect him to be a Robbo with much improved distribution skills for that price.

My question is how is this measured by us? Other than by statistical analysis we are just making somewhat of a guess based on our own findings...and everyone has their own opinions and biases as to what they expect from him.

Again not saying he is effectively performing his role, but until I see some stats I cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that he is totally and utterly useless.....drumming these numbers up and comparing them to other DMs would be nice, and maybe the MLS partnership with Opta will get use some player data for the league.....

DichioTFC
04-14-2011, 02:32 PM
Interesting. I thought JDG looked good out there.

I agree. JDG looked good out there. Sure his salary is unreasonable, but that doesn't mean our expectations of him should be unreasonable as well. Position well, win balls, tackle effectively, pass it along. What else is expected of him?

I'm not mad at the result. IMO a draw was a fair result for both teams. However, I am expecting 3 points this Saturday. We've had enough time to gel / learn the system, we're playing a opponent whose weaker than us, Gordon should be back in the line-up and it's a home game.

The DCU match on Saturday should give us greater insight on this team. Whether for better or for worse.

Pachuco
04-14-2011, 02:33 PM
ha ha...well said and it is about value of course........I think this is something we can agree to disagree here. IF JDG was over performing and was a monster every match, but the team around him really did absolutely nothing would he be playing up to his value? People would still be saying he is not worth anything because the team isn't doing anything. He is only one man...like DeRo was only one man....the team as a whole needs to be better. How to solve that who knows....does a DP striker, defender, attacking mid change things...possibly, but who knows.

Never said I'd re-sign him to another DP deal.......and I am hoping Tchani develops as well....but spending money on that attacking minded midfielder to fit the system isn't as easy as we all think and I know you know....the caliber of player we need seems to be hard to find...at least right now it is.

I agree with the Marquez being a beast since coming here yes...wasn't trying to compare the two talent wise, but just making the point that a DP isn't all flash and in the public eye....as far as I can see from articles Marquez is not a news maker, but has efficiently done his role and exceeded....again I stated that JDG up to this point has not.

Didn't miss it, but not sure how selling jerseys is seen as a bonus for their lack of play on the field? Sure it puts more money into the team's pockets, but the salary cap is still the salary cap....so not much bearing on anything. Unless mechandise sales are factored in when discussing CBA?

Weird, I just realized we agree on alot more then I thought we did. Haha. Sorry man, mis-understandings I guess.

ManUtd4ever
04-14-2011, 02:34 PM
Yes, anything but a victory on Saturday will be disappointing. Unfortunately, the weather might result in another scoreless draw. It's supposed to be pouring rain at game time.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 02:35 PM
Weird, I just realized we agree on alot more then I thought we did. Haha. Sorry man, mis-understandings I guess.

No worries.......just throwing stuff in the wind for debate....all is good. :D

Wull
04-14-2011, 02:35 PM
My question is how is this measured by us? Other than by statistical analysis we are just making somewhat of a guess based on our own findings...and everyone has their own opinions and biases as to what they expect from him.

Again not saying he is effectively performing his role, but until I see some stats I cannot say without a shadow of a doubt that he is totally and utterly useless.....drumming these numbers up and comparing them to other DMs would be nice, and maybe the MLS partnership with Opta will get use some player data for the league.....

He's not utterly useless and you don't need stats. You can tell by watching the game. Last night he was very effective in the role. In the CCL against Cruz Azul, he was very effective in the role doing what a good DM should do.

As you say with Marquez, a good DM is not really seen, he's just not seen to be missing either!

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 02:39 PM
He's not utterly useless and you don't need stats. You can tell by watching the game. Last night he was very effective in the role. In the CCL against Cruz Azul, he was very effective in the role doing what a good DM should do.

As you say with Marquez, a good DM is not really seen, he's just not seen to be missing either!

You like the majority thought he played well last night...which to the naked eye he did just that....but some are still seeing him with frosted glasses and no matter what he does he is under performing because of the price we paid for him......unless the team continually wins matches and contends this season, JDG will be the new whipping boy of the club.....just my opinion and it may be warranted towards him as well.

Steve-Tor
04-14-2011, 02:43 PM
I don't think anyone's giving John a hard time and I see no issue with disagreeing with what he's written and questioning it.

I'm sure John has developed pretty thick skin after being a regular on our boards for several years and I doubt he's going to be chased off by a few people giving him some flak over one article.

I don't think it's true that John's an "invited guest" here as much as he is another participant in the lively and ongoing TFC discussion on the busiest TFC-related site on the internet.

There is no special treatment on my part for reporters or anyone else who visits our board. You write something I disagree with, reporter or not, and I reserve the right to say so.

Now, as for the negatives, I freely admit they exist. But there is something about this team that keeps me feeling more positive than some of the postings I've seen, including what John has written here. I see potential. Real potential, implemented in a system. I see it in Tchani, in Borman, in Stevanovic, in Martina, in JDG and even in Jacob Peterson.

I know it's the 5th goddamn year in a row that we've had to put up with assembling a team and having them gel during meaningful games. However, I do think that, given a system in which to play (as opposed to the pretty chaotic atmosphere which used to pervade the club) that there is a much higher chance of things coming together. I see glimpses of that.

We need someone on the right to support Martina like Borman and Yourassowsky do on the left for Steva. We need more depth at centre-forward and attacking mid. We need Tchani to hesitate less with his passing. We need Steva to look for his teammates more.
The thing that makes me like having these kinds of problems is that many of them are solvable by coaching, playing together and building trust within a team.

All the Tchani naysayers can't deny the talent and potential the kid has. You can see it on display, despite his sometimes boneheaded plays.

This is a team that is a work in progress, but, unlike the past two seasons, there is a feeling that progress will take place. At least in my mind. Maybe I am too optimistic, but that's how I see things at the moment.

Let's check back midway through the season and see if I am crazy or prophetic or somewhere in between.

A very good post sir:)

Boondaddy
04-14-2011, 02:52 PM
one loss in five games is a good start considering the regime change, injuries, and demanding travel so far.

These next two home games are key though.

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 02:53 PM
one loss in five games is a good start considering the regime change, injuries, and demanding travel so far.

These next two home games are key though.


I just want to finally beat the CREWWWWWW :D

McBrace
04-14-2011, 03:02 PM
I just want to finally beat the CREWWWWWW :D

AMEN !!!!!!!

Whoop
04-14-2011, 04:17 PM
I wonder what would have happened had JDG been able to play against Vancouver.

Suds
04-14-2011, 04:57 PM
Interesting. I thought JDG looked good out there.

I was trying to tell Carts the same thing after the game .. but someone kept ordering shots and somehow I couldn't get my point across :o

:D

Ageroo
04-14-2011, 05:01 PM
I wonder what would have happened had JDG been able to play against Vancouver.

If you ask Carts we would have lost by an even greater margin.....:) I kidd, I kidd.....

Alonso
04-14-2011, 06:44 PM
yep i agree, id really like to know what people expect from him, i cant wait till he hits full stride in mid season, dude looks great out there.
One of my favorite bits he seems to get is knocked to the ground with the ball at his feet and he dances around the dude on the ground to jump up and do a turn then pass the ball.

And the move is so quick! And he does it again and again.

Last year against Cruz Azul he lit it up. I'm looking forward to him getting comfortable and continuing to improve in a system that plays to his strengths.

Alonso
04-14-2011, 06:48 PM
This board is fucking insane.

Half the people here thought we would be losing games 3-0 when we were poor in preseason...

Then everyone was saying after we lost DeRo that we would be losing games 3-0

In reality, we have lost one of 5 games with a very credible away draw at SJ and some injuries that probably prevented another home win last night.

and it's still NOT good enough eh?

hahahahahahaha

This is not a place of reason.

If I would have said in preseason that we would will be beaten only once in our first five games I think the over whelming majority of you would have taken it in a heartbeat.

So enjoy the fact that our actual record is not bad. Who among us expected more after five games? and if so, WHY?

True.

Given the circumstances, it has been a successful start to the season.

Alonso
04-14-2011, 07:12 PM
I know for me personally, that's never been my opinion. Holding teams to no goals or 1 goal is pretty common in MLS. It's scoring that's more difficult and we're still pretty average right now. I guess we should be happy with that?



6 Goals For, has us tied for 3rd in the East. Plus we're in 2nd place.

Not a bad start to a season where not much was expected...

rocker
04-14-2011, 07:28 PM
Seattle looking to ditch Fieldturf:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sounders/2014756247_sounders13.html