Scalpers are a real Problem - Video

[Parkdale]

ocmZKJiNPxw

And the real question:

Why are the police not doing anything?
Is it really more important to deal with
people enjoying a beer in the parking lot
instead of dealing with organized criminals?

[Barbarez]

These guys are all connected, police isn't going to do shit. End of.

[Mrs. Workie]

Using your powers for good I see Parky? :D

[Parkdale]

Using your powers for good I see Parky? :D



For Good or For AWESOME !

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail1.html

[The Kingpin]

That is awesome!!! I used to do that last year, but some dude yelled at me because his kid was right there. As a good Canadian I felt bad, but in the end I think I was right to admonish these "parasites". Good capture Parkdale... Next time get a vid without a TFC supporter (he will remain nameless - :) ) giving the gears, it will look for worse!!

[blackandwhite]

I wanna see a W5 special on this.

[Parkdale]

W5

Who - scalpers
what - being pricks
where - bmo field
when - game day
why - fuck'em

[Lenny Dikestra]

These guys are all connected, police isn't going to do shit. End of.

Thank You Barbarez..

I love how some people feel the need to be world police..
Scalpers are all over the world ..Its part of life jesus.. Just go to the MLS game and Sing.. Go buy a $10 dollar beer and enjoy that scalp

[Mrs. Workie]

For Good or For AWESOME !

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail1.html

Doesn't get any more awesome than that!

[Wagner]

so awesome.
we should make this a bit of a mission...


Good Work.

Although it would help if we had some muscle when we confront them...
(where's Croat when you need him???)

[Parkdale]

Thank You Barbarez..

I love how some people feel the need to be world police..
Scalpers are all over the world ..Its part of life jesus.. Just go to the MLS game and Sing.. Go buy a $10 dollar beer and enjoy that scalp

yep. don't bother standing up for what's right, because there's no way to change things.

:hide:

[blackandwhite]

yep. don't bother standing up for what's right, because there's no way to change things.

:hide:

i think the bullets will still go thru that chair!!! :)

[Mrs. Workie]

"Bang Bang Your Dead"

:D

[Damien]

there was a police woman on the street by the go train station this past game... i guess someone complained to the po-po's about the agressive scalpers?

[Jack]

Thank You Barbarez..

I love how some people feel the need to be world police..
Scalpers are all over the world ..Its part of life jesus.. Just go to the MLS game and Sing.. Go buy a $10 dollar beer and enjoy that scalp

Fuck the scalpers. They are scum of the earth.

[The Kingpin]

Fuck the scalpers. They are scum of the earth.

Sooooooooooooo... How do you feel about this?:leaving:

[Lenny Dikestra]

yep. don't bother standing up for what's right, because there's no way to change things.

:hide:


Ya cause in our society this is the most pressing issue!!!!!!

Go get em Tiger.. Film it too so you can incriminate yourself..

[Steve]

Aside from warning scalpers for aggression (though that was a rather provoked instance) there is little the police can do. In order to remove them from property, they would need a complaint, and I don't know who would need to complain (the city maybe?). It also isn't their job to check prices on all resale (as I believe it's legal to resell as long as it isn't above face value, though it could be a certain percentage over and above that).

Essentially, the cops are powerless. If you want to stop the scalpers (or at least severely limit them), it has to come from within the TFC organisation. I don't know the rules they are working under (what is considered cause for revoking someone's season's tickets?) but they should be able to, fairly easily, determine who is scalping and who isn't. Hell, I'm sure they could even enlist the help of supporters to buy tickets from scalpers. At that point, revoke all tickets associated with that person, and redistribute them to people on the waiting list.

The truth is though, TFC has no reason to be too aggressive here. Scalpers can actually be beneficial for them, by keeping tickets on the market for people who really want to come to a game, and by testing the market to see demand, and what price is valid. They get all of this without having to get their own hands dirty as well.

Personally, what I could propose to TFC is to target scalpers in specific sections. Target scalpers specifically selling tickets in the south end. This way you can get more tickets to the people creating the atmosphere that has made you famous, and you won't get people buying from a scalper without knowing what they're getting in to, and having a negative experience with your product (swearing, standing, etc).

[blackandwhite]

Dude I walk the same path every game and to this day none of these fuckers had said anything to me.. how do you guys get into this shit???

[DigzTFC!]

My understanding of law and scalpers are this (Quebec Version):

Its not illegal for someone to sell the ticket for more than face value if the person buying states the price.

If the scalper says the price, it is illegal.

So, if you go to a scalper and he says $65 per ticket...thats illegal

But, if you go to scalper and he barters you to an agreement above the face value, its not. Hence how eBay gets away with it. You agreed to the price.

.....I think

[deltox]

every single week, i get asked if im selling or buying.

how about if TFC actually put their own staff where the scalpers are.

they could actually sell tickets for face value in the same locations that the scalpers are. make it more legit that way.



do we know if the scalpers are selling them for more than face value?

[Jack]

Yes, the scalpers are selling them for more than face value. We've had guys try to buy them for face or less after the game started and scalpers tell them they'd rather chuck the tickets than sell them for less than face value and set a precedent.

[Parkdale]

the issue here isn't a debate on the nature of scalping.
It's that the scalpers are scum who would fight a fan.
We've had lots of cases of people being intimidated and confronted
by scalpers before the game. I just hope it never comes to an assault.

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

My understanding of law and scalpers are this (Quebec Version):

Its not illegal for someone to sell the ticket for more than face value if the person buying states the price. If the scalper says the price, it is illegal.

So, if you go to a scalper and he says $65 per ticket...thats illegal

But, if you go to scalper and he barters you to an agreement above the face value, its not. Hence how eBay gets away with it. You agreed to the price.

.....I think

In Ontario, the Ticket Speculation Act forbids the purchase or sale of tickets for greater than face value.

[Jack]

Aside from warning scalpers for aggression (though that was a rather provoked instance)

They aggressively solicit and when you tell them to screw off they start with the comments and the aggression. There are two laws they break: The aggressive solicitation laws and the ticket speculation laws.

It's a joke that the cops stand by idly and let this shit happen. People go on about "fair market value" and shit for the tickets, but these criminals falsely manufacture this demand by purchasing the best tickets for events and then reselling them at exhorbitant prices.

It's even worse now that somehow it's become legal for Ticketmaster to own StubHub.

[Stencils]

there was a police woman on the street by the go train station this past game... i guess someone complained to the po-po's about the agressive scalpers?

She wasn't doing shit but looking pretty. I passed by her and pointed out the guys that were scalping and she just said

"I know."

I don't usually drop it, but WTF?

Probably just wanted her extra pay for Canada Day and nooooo problems.

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

Aside from warning scalpers for aggression (though that was a rather provoked instance) there is little the police can do. In order to remove them from property, they would need a complaint, and I don't know who would need to complain (the city maybe?). It also isn't their job to check prices on all resale (as I believe it's legal to resell as long as it isn't above face value, though it could be a certain percentage over and above that).

Essentially, the cops are powerless. If you want to stop the scalpers (or at least severely limit them), it has to come from within the TFC organisation. I don't know the rules they are working under (what is considered cause for revoking someone's season's tickets?) but they should be able to, fairly easily, determine who is scalping and who isn't. Hell, I'm sure they could even enlist the help of supporters to buy tickets from scalpers. At that point, revoke all tickets associated with that person, and redistribute them to people on the waiting list.

The truth is though, TFC has no reason to be too aggressive here. Scalpers can actually be beneficial for them, by keeping tickets on the market for people who really want to come to a game, and by testing the market to see demand, and what price is valid. They get all of this without having to get their own hands dirty as well.

Personally, what I could propose to TFC is to target scalpers in specific sections. Target scalpers specifically selling tickets in the south end. This way you can get more tickets to the people creating the atmosphere that has made you famous, and you won't get people buying from a scalper without knowing what they're getting in to, and having a negative experience with your product (swearing, standing, etc).

The scalpers are violating several Ontario laws (Ticket Speculation Act, Safe Streets Act and maybe also Trespass to Property Act), and, in addition, the police have proven themselves very adept at ticketing/arresting people for specious reasons. The question is, why don't the police seem interested in busting scalpers for openly illegal behaviour? Let's not forget, this is the same police force whose downtown plainclothes drug squad had to be completely disbanded a couple of years ago because its officers (including the head of the police union and 2 of the police chief's kids) were running an extortion/drug racket in the Club District. When I see the Toronto police turning a blind eye to organized criminal activity, what am I supposed to think?

[MartinUtd]

The only way this will ever be solved is if the FO figures out which seats are being peddled by scalpers and then moves to strip them of their seat rights. I doubt they will ever get that proactive unless they start taking a commission from the ticket exchange though.

PS- nice work on the video.. how did that altercation start, anyway?

[blackandwhite]

E-mail: mayor_miller@toronto.ca (mayor_miller@toronto.ca)

Mail:
Toronto City Hall, 2nd Floor, 100 Queen St. West, Toronto ON M5H 2N2
Phone:
416-397-CITY (2489)
Fax:
416-696-3687


Ontario MPP list

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members_current.do?locale=en

[H Bomb]

Scalpers don't deserve due diligence & politics. They deserve to be called worthless and be treated badly every time we see them. Good for you Jack and anyone else who called them out. Lets keep it up.

[chip_butty]

It's even worse now that somehow it's become legal for Ticketmaster to own StubHub.

StubHub is owned by eBay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StubHub

;)

[Stencils]

We could always practice 'simulation' when we pass or get passed by these guys.

"I said I wasn't selling or buying to no scalper and he tripped me!"

:P

Or how about a non-violent 'sit in' at BMO to get the FO do try and do something? No one leave the stands after the Pachuca game. At the very least something like that might generate a bit of press....

[Mikey]

They look pretty dumb, but how dumb?

Surely they realise that if they lay hands on a RPB / TFC supporter it'll be open seaon on scalpers around BMO?

Anyhoo, I'm sure the undercover cops reading the RPB board will be all over this next game......:D

[Jack]

The only way this will ever be solved is if the FO figures out which seats are being peddled by scalpers and then moves to strip them of their seat rights. I doubt they will ever get that proactive unless they start taking a commission from the ticket exchange though.

PS- nice work on the video.. how did that altercation start, anyway?

The scumbags started with their in-your-face BS about trying to sell/buy tickets.

The "person in the video" said "fuck off scalper" and then they gathered like the vultures they are and started with their comments.

[Jack]

StubHub is owned by eBay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StubHub

;)

Sorry, TicketsNow. Same type of shit.

Basically, they can now scalp their own tickets online.

[chip_butty]

Sorry, TicketsNow. Same type of shit.

Basically, they can now scalp their own tickets online.

Yeah. Stubhub gave them quite the fright. There is no way to keep this off the net. Unless you start making draconian laws and going after the consumer in markets (like Ontario, some states and provinces) where this is theoretically illegal. Non-season tickets are going to be all electronic and anything digital will be traded on the web.

The problem: supporters section tickets are on the open market.

[Toronto_Bhoy]

As I said a couple of weeks ago it is only a matter of time before there is a serious altercation between scalpers and patrons of TFC/BMO field.

Jack, I'm guessing that you and the leadership of the other TFC supporters groups have brought this up with the club. If MLSE and the police continue to turn a blind eye to this it's not a matter of if but when people are going to get hurt…

[Steve]

The scalpers are violating several Ontario laws (Ticket Speculation Act, Safe Streets Act and maybe also Trespass to Property Act), and, in addition, the police have proven themselves very adept at ticketing/arresting people for specious reasons. The question is, why don't the police seem interested in busting scalpers for openly illegal behaviour? Let's not forget, this is the same police force whose downtown plainclothes drug squad had to be completely disbanded a couple of years ago because its officers (including the head of the police union and 2 of the police chief's kids) were running an extortion/drug racket in the Club District. When I see the Toronto police turning a blind eye to organized criminal activity, what am I supposed to think?

(Preamble: I am not a lawyer or involved in law in any way, but I do like to read up on laws and make sure I am informed)

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to get a charge under the "Safe Streets Act" to stick if your evidence is that video. I'm not saying I like scalpers, but my only interaction with them at BMO has been "You need tickets?" "No" "Ok". Hardly a violation of the act. The video shows a supporter initiating the altercation, again, I don't see that as aggressive solicitation. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and if it does, feel free to approach a police officer with a complaint, but you might want to ensure you weren't the one that started the altercation.

Trespass to property act would be even more sketchy. They're standing around exhibition place, public owned. Is it even possible to charge them with trespassing on public property?

Ticket Speculation Act I agree, they're violating. That being said, is it the job of the cops to try to police that? They are there to keep the peace, so will write citations for obvious infringements (alcohol), but charging someone under the Ticket Speculation Act is undoubtable more of a challenge. I'm sure they don't have the power to write a citation right there (as I believe the maximum fine is $5000, and must be proven in court) so would have to arrest them. Does anyone know the rules for arrest without warrent involving the Ticket Speculation Act? They would also need to actively search for scalpers (selling tickets is not illegal, selling them over face value is, so they would need to prove how much was paid, how much it was worth, etc, not an easy task).

Essentially, it would involve a lot more effort and resources than they currently have at BMO, and it would need a major complaint (from TFC itself) for them to even start caring.

[Canadian Blue]

we have had lots of cases of people being intimidated and confronted by scalpers before the game. I just hope it never comes to an assault.

To my recollection the only causes I have heard of where fans were intimidated/confronted by scalpers was when the fan insticated the issue.

You video being one and the other was the thread from a few weeks ago where the guy said he mouthed off to the scalper first.

I don't agree with the scalpers but I have walked past them for 2 years now with no issue, I think you guys getting in their face is creating an issue or unsafe environment that doesn't need to be created.

[Pigfynn]

To my recollection the only causes I have heard of where fans were intimidated/confronted by scalpers was when the fan insticated the issue.

You video being one and the other was the thread from a few weeks ago where the guy said he mouthed off to the scalper first.

I don't agree with the scalpers but I have walked past them for 2 years now with no issue, I think you guys getting in their face is creating an issue or unsafe environment that doesn't need to be created.

So, don't bother the illegal people on your way to the stadium is your suggestion? Why should I not only have to sit in 114 surrounded by new people every week because of scalped tickets (instead of real supporters)but also "be nice" to the people who keep those tickets out of the hands of honest people waiting to get in?

[Fort York Redcoat]

Scalpers=Scum. Any sport. Any event.

[Oblio2]

here's the thing.
if one or two of these guys does get aggressive and start a scrap, you have hundreds of football fans walking by who, by my reckoning would happily lay the boot in to these guys.
Doesn't matter who they are or how connected, when you have 50 football fans laying the boots to you, see what happens. I would suggest the scalpers be very careful who they provoke/intimidate because it could get very ugly and very fast.

*disclaimer
I am in NO WAY condoning violence towards scalpers.

[Lenny Dikestra]

We could always practice 'simulation' when we pass or get passed by these guys.

"I said I wasn't selling or buying to no scalper and he tripped me!"

:P

Or how about a non-violent 'sit in' at BMO to get the FO do try and do something? No one leave the stands after the Pachuca game. At the very least something like that might generate a bit of press....

HAhahahahh ,, Ya cause we all know how well these protests work.. You can't get supporters to agree on disagreeing long enough to organize anything..

I am 100% sure Scalpers don;t instigate trouble.. the fixated scalper haters do

[Red CB Toronto]

That was classic

[Canadian Blue]

So, don't bother the illegal people on your way to the stadium is your suggestion? Why should I not only have to sit in 114 surrounded by new people every week because of scalped tickets (instead of real supporters)but also "be nice" to the people who keep those tickets out of the hands of honest people waiting to get in?


Yes, have you ever chased after the guy that rolled through a stop sign.....heaven forbid he did something illegal!!!!

Maybe we should start a Guardian Angels RPB Chapter.....the red beret would look great with a TFC kit

[Hooligan69]

here's the thing.
if one or two of these guys does get aggressive and start a scrap, you have hundreds of football fans walking by who, by my reckoning would happily lay the boot in to these guys.
Doesn't matter who they are or how connected, when you have 50 football fans laying the boots to you, see what happens. I would suggest the scalpers be very careful who they provoke/intimidate because it could get very ugly and very fast.

*disclaimer
I am in NO WAY condoning violence towards scalpers.

What happens if a scalper pulls out a gun or a knife?

[H Bomb]

^^ Well then lets all stay home in case everyone's armed. The apathy here is sad. If you don't stand up for what you believe in no one else will do it for you. These guys represent a societal cancer that needs to be snuffed out. Why anyone would even want to ignore these guys instead of call them out is beyond me. We need to make there lives a living hell for the minute of two we see them each week.

[Steve]

^^ Well them lets all stay home in case everyone's armed. The apathy here is sad. If you don't stand up for what you believe in no one else will do it for you. These guys represent a societal cancer that needs to be snuffed out. Why anyone would even want to ignore these guys instead of call them out is beyond me. We need to make there lives a living hell for the minute of two we see them each week.

Yeah! Damned cancers! How could I be so complacent? I mean, just because there are better things to worry about, like the gang violence, drug dealing, etc in my neighborhood.

Maybe people are complacent because *gasp* they honestly don't care. Good, scalpers suck, blah blah blah, sorry, but on my "suck-o-meter" they're pretty far down the list.

[FluSH]

E-mail: mayor_miller@toronto.ca (mayor_miller@toronto.ca)

Mail:
Toronto City Hall, 2nd Floor, 100 Queen St. West, Toronto ON M5H 2N2
Phone:
416-397-CITY (2489)
Fax:
416-696-3687


Ontario MPP list

http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members_current.do?locale=en






This is so unlike you?!?! To email a protest?!... Are you ok?

[FluSH]

(Preamble: I am not a lawyer or involved in law in any way, but I do like to read up on laws and make sure I am informed)

Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to get a charge under the "Safe Streets Act" to stick if your evidence is that video. I'm not saying I like scalpers, but my only interaction with them at BMO has been "You need tickets?" "No" "Ok". Hardly a violation of the act. The video shows a supporter initiating the altercation, again, I don't see that as aggressive solicitation. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and if it does, feel free to approach a police officer with a complaint, but you might want to ensure you weren't the one that started the altercation.

Trespass to property act would be even more sketchy. They're standing around exhibition place, public owned. Is it even possible to charge them with trespassing on public property?

Ticket Speculation Act I agree, they're violating. That being said, is it the job of the cops to try to police that? They are there to keep the peace, so will write citations for obvious infringements (alcohol), but charging someone under the Ticket Speculation Act is undoubtable more of a challenge. I'm sure they don't have the power to write a citation right there (as I believe the maximum fine is $5000, and must be proven in court) so would have to arrest them. Does anyone know the rules for arrest without warrent involving the Ticket Speculation Act? They would also need to actively search for scalpers (selling tickets is not illegal, selling them over face value is, so they would need to prove how much was paid, how much it was worth, etc, not an easy task).

Essentially, it would involve a lot more effort and resources than they currently have at BMO, and it would need a major complaint (from TFC itself) for them to even start caring.

Steve's a Crown Attorney don't lie!!!!

[Oblio2]

What happens if a scalper pulls out a gun or a knife?

Have you ever seen a mob beating?
Im nto saying it would or should happen. All i am saying is, IF a scalper became aggressive, you will have 50 or so people drop them quite easily and lay the boots....it's not easy to pull a knife or gun with a mob of people kicking ten layers of crap out of you.
Again, not agreeing with it, not saying it should happen or that it will....just saying that a group of 10-15 scalpers, should be aware of a few thousand (NOT Blue jay fans) but football fans....Half of them boozed up.

[Pigfynn]

Yeah! Damned cancers! How could I be so complacent? I mean, just because there are better things to worry about, like the gang violence, drug dealing, etc in my neighborhood.

Maybe people are complacent because *gasp* they honestly don't care. Good, scalpers suck, blah blah blah, sorry, but on my "suck-o-meter" they're pretty far down the list.

Dude, why does the rest of the city and or world have to come into this? We are a supporters group for TFC, talking about issues that concern the team and the game day experience...not your neighbourhood and it's problems.

This is a BMO field related problem that alot of people have concerns about..is that ok?

[Lenny Dikestra]

I say we Get rid of the Scalpers with Love.. Ask them to just go away ..Tell them they are ruining my day and I hate it that others have a chance to walk up and see the game for an extra 30 bucks or something..

Love them away..

[H Bomb]

Yeah! Damned cancers! How could I be so complacent? I mean, just because there are better things to worry about, like the gang violence, drug dealing, etc in my neighborhood.

Maybe people are complacent because *gasp* they honestly don't care. Good, scalpers suck, blah blah blah, sorry, but on my "suck-o-meter" they're pretty far down the list.

So are you getting out there and doing things about the Gang Violence and Drug Dealing...or are you just being apathetic...

[Lenny Dikestra]

Dude, why does the rest of the city and or world have to come into this? We are a supporters group for TFC, talking about issues that concern the team and the game day experience...not your neighbourhood and it's problems.

This is a BMO field related problem that alot of people have concerns about..is that ok?

YOu are a complete Idiot..
"gameday experience " You need to smoke some crack to get a clue..
Society is society dummy , not your gameday expeience ..You whacko

[Steve]

Dude, why does the rest of the city and or world have to come into this? We are a supporters group for TFC, talking about issues that concern the team and the game day experience...not your neighbourhood and it's problems.

This is a BMO field related problem that alot of people have concerns about..is that ok?

Feel free to have concerns with it, I'm not saying you shouldn't. I was taking issue with this:


If you don't stand up for what you believe in no one else will do it for you. These guys represent a societal cancer that needs to be snuffed out.

Societal cancer? Calling people out for apathy? I'm just saying, maybe this issue isn't as big of a deal for some people, and that doesn't suggest anything negative about them.

[Pigfynn]

YOu are a complete Idiot..
"gameday experience " You need to smoke some crack to get a clue..
Society is society dummy , not your gameday expeience ..You whacko

Hey Fuckhead what does what you just wrote even mean? I'm tired of your useless posts. Steve's neighbourhood issues would be better addressed on a "Steve's neighbourhood" message board, don't you think?

[Steve]

So are you getting out there and doing things about the Gang Violence and Drug Dealing...or are you just being apathetic...

Actually I volunteer for an organisation called "Pathways to education" which tutors kids in Reagant park, as well as provides financial aid for them to attend post-secondary education if they want to. Through a multi-pronged approach, yes, pathways has been successful in lowering teenage deliquancy by giving the kids some real hope for the future.

I'm sorry, we were talking about scalping?

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

"fat fukking parasite" :rofl:

awesome and funny and true!......i need a sandwich

[H Bomb]

^ I do think Scalpers are a societal cancer...and I do think people are being apathetic. But also if you want to let them be please feel free to, you won't see me chasing you down to get in their faces. But I will be doing something to try to fix a problem.

Why are people defending scalpers here anyways? It's like a "save the pedophiles" march

[Steve]

Hey Fuckhead what does what you just wrote even mean? I'm tired of your useless posts. Steve's neighbourhood issues would be better addressed on a "Steve's neighbourhood" message board, don't you think?

Yeah, I agree, I'm merely taking issue with the "sky is falling" approach. Yeah, feel free to care about it. Feel free to try to do something about it, but don't call me out for not caring about a situation that minimally, if ever, affects my game-day experience.

[H Bomb]

Actually I volunteer for an organisation called "Pathways to education" which tutors kids in Reagant park, as well as provides financial aid for them to attend post-secondary education if they want to. Through a multi-pronged approach, yes, pathways has been successful in lowering teenage deliquancy by giving the kids some real hope for the future.

I'm sorry, we were talking about scalping?

Shouldn't tutor kids in that park....it's dangerous :)

As I said, the idea that there are bigger problems out there doesn't mean that the smaller problems go away. Again if you don't want to do it them don't, I won't think less of you. But many of us will be doing it, cause it needs to be done.

[Pigfynn]

Nor was I saying that it effects everyone's game day experience, just that many people don't want the scalpers there and that scalping is illegal and should be handled as such.

[Lenny Dikestra]

Hey Fuckhead what does what you just wrote even mean? I'm tired of your useless posts. Steve's neighbourhood issues would be better addressed on a "Steve's neighbourhood" message board, don't you think?

My posts are not useless.. They are well thought out and take issue at people like you that take the whole football experience just a mile to far..
Ya I am correct you take shit way too seriously when it comes to bloody football..
MLS for that matter .. get on with it:canada:

[Hooligan69]

^^ Well then lets all stay home in case everyone's armed. The apathy here is sad. If you don't stand up for what you believe in no one else will do it for you. These guys represent a societal cancer that needs to be snuffed out. Why anyone would even want to ignore these guys instead of call them out is beyond me. We need to make there lives a living hell for the minute of two we see them each week.

So you're saying we should engage them in physical confrontation? I was commenting on Oblio2's scenario and nothing more.

[Steve]

Shouldn't tutor kids in that park....it's dangerous :)

As I said, the idea that there are bigger problems out there doesn't mean that the smaller problems go away. Again if you don't want to do it them don't, I won't think less of you. But many of us will be doing it, cause it needs to be done.

That's fair, I'm not saying that you shouldn't get involved in fixing one problem because there is a bigger one (I mean, who the fuck are reagent park kids compared to child soldiers in africa? Or any number of other attrocities I could mention). Aside from taking issue with the "cancer" word though, in this thread I haven't been arguing against taking some action, I've merely tried to insert some realism into the discussions. That's great that you want to do something about the problem, but what do you propose? And if I try to find fault with your plan, it isn't because I want to "protect the scalpers" it's because I'd rather the plan actually have a chance at success (it's also what I do at work, old habits die hard).

[invictusTFC]

And the real question:

Why are the police not doing anything?
Is it really more important to deal with
people enjoying a beer in the parking lot
instead of dealing with organized criminals?QFT...

The cops will harass fans having a little pre-drink before the game but these bastards are untouchable.

[Pigfynn]

My posts are not useless.. They are well thought out and take issue at people like you that take the whole football experience just a mile to far..
Ya I am correct you take shit way too seriously when it comes to bloody football..
MLS for that matter .. get on with it


What!??!

You are on a TFC supporters website! This is all about taking all things TFC seriously. If you think I take things too seriously maybe you should start your own "Lenny's message board for moderate thinking TFC and MLS soccer fans"

Because on here you may have to cross paths with the occassional fanatic right?

[Hooligan69]

Have you ever seen a mob beating?


Perhaps a better question would be if I've ever been involved in one, but I'm not going to bother answering such a question.

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

Lionel Hutz, appearing for the plaintiff, your honour.:hump:


Honestly, you'd be hard pressed to get a charge under the "Safe Streets Act" to stick if your evidence is that video. I'm not saying I like scalpers, but my only interaction with them at BMO has been "You need tickets?" "No" "Ok". Hardly a violation of the act. The video shows a supporter initiating the altercation, again, I don't see that as aggressive solicitation. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, and if it does, feel free to approach a police officer with a complaint, but you might want to ensure you weren't the one that started the altercation.

Except that, under the Safe Streets Act, it doesn't matter whether the person being solicited "initiates the altercation" (which, to be honest, is one of the more truly draconian aspects of the SSA):

Section 2.3(1): "Threatening the person solicited with physical harm, by word, gesture or other means, during the solicitation or after the person solicited responds or fails to respond to the solicitation."
Section 2.3(3): "Using abusive language during the solicitation or after the person solicited responds or fails to respond to the solicitation"

A person who "threatens" or "uses abusive language" during or after the solicitation is in violation of the law. The law explicitly ignores the conduct of the person being solicited.


Trespass to property act would be even more sketchy. They're standing around exhibition place, public owned. Is it even possible to charge them with trespassing on public property?

If it were impossible to charge people with trespassing on public property, then I could walk in to the Governor General's house at 3am to use her bathroom and watch her TV. Even though publicly owned, public property is usually subject to "occupation" for the purposes of the Trespass to Property Act

Section 1(b) of the Trespass to Property Act gives the power to deny entry to any premises to the "occupier", who is "a person who has responsibility for and control over the condition of premises or the activities there carried on, or control over persons allowed to enter the premises".

Section 2 makes it illegal for "every person who is not acting under a right or authority conferred by law" to enter premises "without the express permission of the occupier".

Section 3 provides that "entry ... may be prohibited by notice to that effect and entry is prohibited without any notice on premises ... that is enclosed in a manner that indicates the occupier’s intention to keep persons off the premises".

Now, ExPlace is gated, and I'm reasonably sure that there is a sign somewhere at Exhibition Place that says "scalping prohibited", but even if there is not, a person cannot claim a right of entry in order to break the law (i.e. violating the Ticket Speculation Act).


Ticket Speculation Act I agree, they're violating. That being said, is it the job of the cops to try to police that? They are there to keep the peace, so will write citations for obvious infringements (alcohol), but charging someone under the Ticket Speculation Act is undoubtable more of a challenge. I'm sure they don't have the power to write a citation right there (as I believe the maximum fine is $5000, and must be proven in court) so would have to arrest them. Does anyone know the rules for arrest without warrent involving the Ticket Speculation Act? They would also need to actively search for scalpers (selling tickets is not illegal, selling them over face value is, so they would need to prove how much was paid, how much it was worth, etc, not an easy task).

In the second sentence above, you ask "is it the job of the cops to police [the Ticket Speculation Act]"? I can only assume that was a serious question, but I am very confused by your understanding of "the job of the cops". If their job is something other than "enforcing the law by investigating violations and commencing court proceedings against suspected violators", then we have a big problem. Yes, it is the "job of the cops" to enforce the Ticket Speculation Act.

Why should the police enforce one law while ignoring another? Is it the job of the cops to selectively apply the law depending on their personal preferences? Is a scalper "less guilty" because his friend or family member is a cop and the other cops working at BMO have decided not to prosecute?

As to your specific questions about the TSA, I think the police can always write a citation on the spot, but if they do the amount of the fine is limited to $500. The only way to get jail time or a fine above $500 under the POA is by information/offence notice.

[Lenny Dikestra]

What!??!

You are on a TFC supporters website! This is all about taking all things TFC seriously. If you think I take things too seriously maybe you should start your own "Lenny's message board for moderate thinking TFC and MLS soccer fans"

Because on here you may have to cross paths with the occassional fanatic right?


Damnn you ..you are right .. I never thought about that..That maybe people who take TFC to seriously are onhere..
shit
U got me:noidea:

[H Bomb]

^^ The cancer reference had to do with a bigger issue than scalping (fundamental capitalism and such) that I won't start with here cause it'll hijack the thread. And I tend to be a bit more Soldier than General so while people like yourself will be going the politics route (good luck to you) I'll be making sure any scalper that comes near me knows what a piece of shit he is.

[BC101]

LOL hahaha nice video Parky LMAO... Oh thats a keeper.

[Steve]

Lionel Hutz, appearing for the plaintiff, your honour.:hump:



Hey Vox,

I would like to respond to your comments (I actually find discussions of law interesting) but I just want to know: Are you involved (in a professional capacity) in the field of law? If, for example, you're a practicing lawyer, then I'll respectfully bow out (at least in public, I'll still disagree with you privately, but I will have to find specific cases to back my opinion up, or refute it, and that won't happen while I'm at work).

[Canadian Blue]

And the real question:

Why are the police not doing anything?
Is it really more important to deal with
people enjoying a beer in the parking lot
instead of dealing with organized criminals?

Our tailgates are organized and drinking in public is illegal......does that makes us organized criminals?

This message board is a strange place after a loss....

[H Bomb]

^^ But there is no context in that Blue

What scalpers do is wrong...what we do at tailgates is not. Fuck the letter of the law 10/10

[Parkdale]

Our tailgates are organized and drinking in public is illegal......does that makes us organized criminals?

organized? I'd never call one of our tailgates organized

and besides.... the policy of the tailgate is 'non-alcoholic' but individuals are free to act as they wish.

[Canadian Blue]

^^ But there is no context in that Blue

What scalpers do is wrong...what we do at tailgates is not. Fuck the letter of the law 10/10

so we only get upset when some laws are not followed as long as it is not us that is breaking said law?

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

Hey Vox,

I would like to respond to your comments (I actually find discussions of law interesting) but I just want to know: Are you involved (in a professional capacity) in the field of law? If, for example, you're a practicing lawyer, then I'll respectfully bow out (at least in public, I'll still disagree with you privately, but I will have to find specific cases to back my opinion up, or refute it, and that won't happen while I'm at work).

I'm not a lawyer, but I did watch Matlock in a bar last night. The sound was off, but I think I got the gist of it...

Errr...actually, I am a lawyer (d'ya think the latin might have given me away?). But I resent the implication of "professionalism". On the internet I am strictly unprofessional.:taz:

But why bow out? This certainly isn't an area of my legal expertise ... I'm enjoying the debate and your questions are valid and insightful (except for the one about the "job of the cops").

[blackandwhite]

OK guys dig in these laws more. I am sure somewhere in there it says we can shoot these bastards :)

[Canadian Blue]

organized? I'd never call one of our tailgates organized

and besides.... the policy of the tailgate is 'non-alcoholic' but individuals are free to act as they wish.

Well we do have an entire thread devoted to Tailgates and if I am not mistaken we do have a tailgate committee

[H Bomb]

so we only get upset when some laws are not followed as long as it is not us that is breaking said law?


again no context. You need to look at the laws being broken and what the people are doing. Not just what the law book says about them.

[GabrielHurl]

organized? I'd never call one of our tailgates organized

and besides.... the policy of the tailgate is 'non-alcoholic' but individuals are free to act as they wish.

Is that kind of like when you go to those escort sites and they say at the bottom

"Money exchanged for legal adult services is for time and companionship. Anything implied or inferred on this web site is not to be taken as inducement for services other than this. Any sexual activities that take place are between consenting adults."




Not that I spend much time on those types of sites

[Angelo1405]

For Good or For AWESOME !

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail1.html

i remember home star runner, back in the suburban grade school kids were talking about it 24/7 and decided to check it out. i used to watch those everyday but i forgot about it and im grown !! thanks for the memories...lol

[ComeonyouReds]

Seems like the whole thing was instigated by you

[werewolf]

Our tailgates are organized and drinking in public is illegal......does that makes us organized criminals?

This message board is a strange place after a loss....

So why are the tailgates attracting such a large police presence but not the scalpers?

If it went both ways, I personally wouldn't have a problem with it.

[blackandwhite]

So why are the tailgates attracting such a large police presence but not the scalpers?

If it went both ways, I personally wouldn't have a problem with it.

because the mafia doesn't have $25 to join RPB... you gonna have to lower the membership fee.

[Parkdale]

Well we do have an entire thread devoted to Tailgates and if I am not mistaken we do have a tailgate committee

tailgates are not illegal - public drinking is , and that's not what the committee organizes.

but come on, you know that.

[Canadian Blue]

again no context. You need to look at the laws being broken and what the people are doing. Not just what the law book says about them.

I do look at the laws that are being broken and scalpers do not bother me and never have, I mean sure I hate the inflated prices but if I want to go to a sold out event they are my only choice. Like it or not they are part of our society and a few angry TFC fans will not stop something that has been going on and is widely accepted. Scalping is not new, it happens at every single event in Toronto what makes you think it can be stopped at BMO?

Go ahead get into a fight with them and then next home game they will have 2 or 3 times more guys there and then it gets escalted even further. Seriously scalpers suck but we are not goin to rid BMO of them so just walk past them and enjoy the game.

[Parkdale]

Go ahead get into a fight with them and then next home game they will have 2 or 3 times more guys there and then it gets escalted even further. Seriously scalpers suck but we are not goin to rid BMO of them so just walk past them and enjoy the game.

my hope is that this video might get seen by someone who actually can do something about it, and they will feel pressured to act. It's not our job to fight scalpers, but it's IS our job to support the team, and if the team's support suffers because of scalped tickets....

[BC101]

I do look at the laws that are being broken and scalpers do not bother me and never have, I mean sure I hate the inflated prices but if I want to go to a sold out event they are my only choice. Like it or not they are part of our society and a few angry TFC fans will not stop something that has been going on and is widely accepted. Scalping is not new, it happens at every single event in Toronto what makes you think it can be stopped at BMO?

Go ahead get into a fight with them and then next home game they will have 2 or 3 times more guys there and then it gets escalted even further. Seriously scalpers suck but we are not goin to rid BMO of them so just walk past them and enjoy the game.

Hahaha that'd be quite the sight TFC supporters vs Scalpers in a all out street brawl LOL.

[H Bomb]

I do look at the laws that are being broken and scalpers do not bother me and never have, I mean sure I hate the inflated prices but if I want to go to a sold out event they are my only choice. Like it or not they are part of our society and a few angry TFC fans will not stop something that has been going on and is widely accepted. Scalping is not new, it happens at every single event in Toronto what makes you think it can be stopped at BMO?

Go ahead get into a fight with them and then next home game they will have 2 or 3 times more guys there and then it gets escalted even further. Seriously scalpers suck but we are not goin to rid BMO of them so just walk past them and enjoy the game.

With all due respect dude that's the apathy that bothers me. the idea that they've been around for a while so they will be around forever is something i've no interest in. If something is sold out, then I don't get to go, simple as that. As you said they don't bother you so I don't expect you to join in but they do bother me, and always have. I'm a bit anti-capitalism so they are basically my equivalent of the anti-christ. I am imagine we can both sleep at night with our choices

[Hooligan69]

Hahaha that'd be quite the sight TFC supporters vs Scalpers in a all out street brawl LOL.

Complete with Danny Dyer commentary?

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

OK guys dig in these laws more. I am sure somewhere in there it says we can shoot these bastards :)

Can't help you with legalized summary execution, but how about citizen's arrest?

***WARNING***For shits and giggles only, NEVER actually arrest someone yourself unless you have a reasonable fear for your physical safety or for the safety of those for whom you are legally responsible AND you reasonbly believe that you are safer to arrest the criminal than to flee (no joke)***WARNING***

TPA, s.9(1): "A police officer, or the occupier of premises, or a person authorized by the occupier may arrest without warrant any person he or she believes on reasonable and probable grounds to be on the premises in contravention of section 2."

POA, s.145: "Any person may arrest without warrant a person who he or she has reasonable and probable grounds to believe has committed an offence and is escaping from and freshly pursued by a police officer who has lawful authority to arrest that person."

CCC, s.494(1): "Any one may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes has committed a criminal offence, and is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.

CCC, s.494(2): Any one who is the owner or a person in lawful possession of property may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property.

[BC101]

Complete with Danny Dyer commentary?
sure why not LOL that'd be hilarious... It'd be like a scene outta brave heart... two sets of groups standing opposite each other then the full CHARGE in LOL!

[Lenny Dikestra]

With all due respect dude that's the apathy that bothers me. the idea that they've been around for a while so they will be around forever is something i've no interest in. If something is sold out, then I don't get to go, simple as that. As you said they don't bother you so I don't expect you to join in but they do bother me, and always have. I'm a bit anti-capitalism so they are basically my equivalent of the anti-christ. I am imagine we can both sleep at night with our choices

I can gurantee you have apathy for something that I hold as sacred..
Free the scalpers and inturn free yourself !!!

[Steve]

Lionel Hutz, appearing for the plaintiff, your honour.:hump:

Except that, under the Safe Streets Act, it doesn't matter whether the person being solicited "initiates the altercation" (which, to be honest, is one of the more truly draconian aspects of the SSA):

Section 2.3(1): "Threatening the person solicited with physical harm, by word, gesture or other means, during the solicitation or after the person solicited responds or fails to respond to the solicitation."
Section 2.3(3): "Using abusive language during the solicitation or after the person solicited responds or fails to respond to the solicitation"

A person who "threatens" or "uses abusive language" during or after the solicitation is in violation of the law. The law explicitly ignores the conduct of the person being solicited.


If that is the proper (and only) interpretation of the law, that law needs to be changed. I read the "Responds or fails to respond" as meaning merely "saying yes or no". The problem with that interpretation is, where does it cut off? I mean, assuming you can't treat the "solicitation event" and the "confrontation event" as seperate and distinct since the one has nothing to do with the other in this case (which is what you're getting at)
where do you draw the line? I mean, if I solicit you on the street, and you punch me, and I hit you back, am I in conflict with this law? What about if I just swear at you ("Fucking yell, you broke my nose") is that still a violation? Or, maybe I solicit you on the street, and right after that you try to abduct a small child, can I swear/hit you then? The problem with the wording is, if it isn't taken to mean unprovoked (as in, in the same interaction as the initiating solicitation event) it is far too broad to apply, and creates some funny loopholes (not that those aren't common in law I suppose).

Additionally, did the scalper even solicit the person in that video? If he solicits someone, then a third party yells at him, I assume it's ok to scream profanities?



If it were impossible to charge people with trespassing on public property, then I could walk in to the Governor General's house at 3am to use her bathroom and watch her TV. Even though publicly owned, public property is usually subject to "occupation" for the purposes of the Trespass to Property Act

Section 1(b) of the Trespass to Property Act gives the power to deny entry to any premises to the "occupier", who is "a person who has responsibility for and control over the condition of premises or the activities there carried on, or control over persons allowed to enter the premises".

Section 2 makes it illegal for "every person who is not acting under a right or authority conferred by law" to enter premises "without the express permission of the occupier".

Section 3 provides that "entry ... may be prohibited by notice to that effect and entry is prohibited without any notice on premises ... that is enclosed in a manner that indicates the occupier’s intention to keep persons off the premises".

Now, ExPlace is gated, and I'm reasonably sure that there is a sign somewhere at Exhibition Place that says "scalping prohibited", but even if there is not, a person cannot claim a right of entry in order to break the law (i.e. violating the Ticket Speculation Act).


Right, so section 1 depends on section 2, and section 2 depends on the definition of prohibition of entry (section three) so, since the disagreement lies in section 3, I'll just address that. Explace is only gated during the ex. At other parts of the year it is not gated. So, since ExPlace isn't a garden, field, or land under cultivation (a), and without a gate/fence around the land it can't be reasonably assumed that the occupier intended people to keep out (b) we have to conclude that the scalpers cannot be charged for trespassing under those definitions.

As for the last point, of course they can't claim right of entry to break the law, but in order to get that to stand, you would need to prove a law was broken. So, essentially it's a house of cards balanced on the TSA.



In the second sentence above, you ask "is it the job of the cops to police [the Ticket Speculation Act]"? I can only assume that was a serious question, but I am very confused by your understanding of "the job of the cops". If their job is something other than "enforcing the law by investigating violations and commencing court proceedings against suspected violators", then we have a big problem. Yes, it is the "job of the cops" to enforce the Ticket Speculation Act.

Why should the police enforce one law while ignoring another? Is it the job of the cops to selectively apply the law depending on their personal preferences? Is a scalper "less guilty" because his friend or family member is a cop and the other cops working at BMO have decided not to prosecute?

As to your specific questions about the TSA, I think the police can always write a citation on the spot, but if they do the amount of the fine is limited to $500. The only way to get jail time or a fine above $500 under the POA is by information/offence notice.

It's true, police should enforce all laws, but there have no proof that laws have been broken. Sure, they "know" as well as we do that those scalpers are there, and that they are breaking the TSA, but where is the evidence? They need proof of either purchase with the intent to sell (almost impossible to prove, how do you know what they were thinking at time of purchase?) or selling at above ticket value (more feasible). In order to prove the latter, they can either walk up to the scalper and ask to buy a ticket (I'm sure the scalper would definitely fall for a uniformed officer doing this...), or plan a sting operation (undercover cops maybe?). Again, though feasible, we have to come to terms with the fact that the police force has limited resources. The uniformed officers there on game day are there to keep the peace, and they will certainly write citations for easily seen/proven law breaking activity, but it's not that easy to do the same to a scalper.

As a side note, has anyone bought a ticket from a scalper, then gone to a cop to register a complaint? I wonder if they would be compelled to act if there is a complaint, and (some) proof of violation. I'm not saying the cops would actually do anything, I just wonder if they would be more obligated to.

[blackandwhite]

You fight traffic tickets too??? hahaha

I am not kidding!! :)

[H Bomb]

I can gurantee you have apathy for something that I hold as sacred..
Free the scalpers and inturn free yourself !!!

Well let me know when we have a thread specifically talking about it

[adamdz]

Meh, as long as there are people who buy from them they will exist. I just don't like the fact they seem to get in some people’s faces (sometimes it may be justified, but I am sure it isn't always). If it does ever escalate past some obscenities I hope it at least results in them moving out of heavy traffic areas and I will be happy.

[Jack]

I see nothing wrong with telling them to fuck off.

That is a response to their solicitation. "Do you need tickets?" "Fuck off". It's a simple exchange. Is it polite? No. But it's a way of saying "No" to them.

If that's what provoked 3 of them to walk over and start calling out insults, then they need to thicken up their skin.

I realize that some people think it's not a big deal and that others think we should just leave them be, but I do not. I've already stated my reasons for this. Maybe there are other issues that are more important to other people. That's fine.

[james]

Police only give a shit about scalpers if they are within 50 feet of the gate entries otherwise they dont care!

[Lenny Dikestra]

I see nothing wrong with telling them to fuck off.

That is a response to their solicitation. "Do you need tickets?" "Fuck off". It's a simple exchange. Is it polite? No. But it's a way of saying "No" to them.

If that's what provoked 3 of them to walk over and start calling out insults, then they need to thicken up their skin.

I realize that some people think it's not a big deal and that others think we should just leave them be, but I do not. I've already stated my reasons for this. Maybe there are other issues that are more important to other people. That's fine.

As the President you should never advocate that.. What good can come from telling someone to Fuck Off... Only bad things can come from that..
You can be against scalping yes, but that is pushing it ..
I really wonder what the motives are in this group sometimes..

[Jack]

As the President you should never advocate that.. What good can come from telling someone to Fuck Off... Only bad things can come from that..
You can be against scalping yes, but that is pushing it ..
I really wonder what the motives are in this group sometimes..
The motives in this group are to support TFC.

[Lenny Dikestra]

The motives in this group are to support TFC.

So then do it in a fashion that can be respected.. telling people to Fcuk Off ..??????

How does that support TFC

[Pigfynn]

What motivates you to post Lenny? boredom?

[Lenny Dikestra]

What motivates you to post Lenny? boredom?


Obviously..

[AL-MO]

So then do it in a fashion that can be respected.. telling people to Fcuk Off ..??????

How does that support TFC

FUCK OFF LENNY!

You are disgracing the baseball player you took your board name from.

[H Bomb]

Lenny you're a mile off. It's good that our Prez doesn't politic himself by trying to be PC about it. It's a problem, why not state it.

[Lenny Dikestra]

Lenny you're a mile off. It's good that our Prez doesn't politic himself by trying to be PC about it. It's a problem, why not state it.

Well it will be good when someone gets a good face bashing for telling a scalper to Fuck off won't it..
Smart move advocating the use of Fuck off to solve shit

[McBrace]

Lenny you're a mile off. It's good that our Prez doesn't politic himself by trying to be PC about it. It's a problem, why not state it.


I agree, at least he has the balls to stand up for what he thinks is right, not a yes man to all.

[james]

So then do it in a fashion that can be respected.. telling people to Fcuk Off ..??????

How does that support TFC

it has to do with supporting TFC in the sense that many TFC games are sold out and thats because scalpers go and buy loads of tickets to sell at higher prices preventing many TFC supporters from attending the games!

[H Bomb]

Well it will be good when someone gets a good face bashing for telling a scalper to Fuck off won't it..
Smart move advocating the use of Fuck off to solve shit

sometimes you have to be willing to get punched in the face.

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

If that is the proper (and only) interpretation of the law, that law needs to be changed. I read the "Responds or fails to respond" as meaning merely "saying yes or no".

Those are the words in the legislation. To me, "responds or fails to respond" means "saying 'yes', 'no', 'fuck off'" or remaining silent. I agree that this is a poorly drafted law.


The problem with that interpretation is, where does it cut off? I mean, assuming you can't treat the "solicitation event" and the "confrontation event" as seperate and distinct since the one has nothing to do with the other in this case (which is what you're getting at) where do you draw the line? I mean, if I solicit you on the street, and you punch me, and I hit you back, am I in conflict with this law?

If you are soliciting me and I strike you (or threaten to do so), then I am guilty of assault. If you hit back, you're (probably) not guilty of assault because I have either (a) given you implicit consent to hit me (by hitting you), or (b) given you cause to hit me in self-defence. If you hit me 25 times and then stomp my head, you are (probably) guilty of assault, since you could no longer be said to be defending yourself, and my "consent" to be hit by you would have run out at about the same time as my consciousness.


What about if I just swear at you ("Fucking yell, you broke my nose") is that still a violation? Or, maybe I solicit you on the street, and right after that you try to abduct a small child, can I swear/hit you then?

This is the real problem with the SSA: the province is constitutionally precluded from legislation dealing with "criminal law", but Harris wanted to be seen to be cracking down on "aggressive panhandling". Many provisions of the SSA haven't been tested in the courts, and it is somewhat likely that they would be declared unconstitutional if they were. In essence, the conduct that is "truly problematic" is already illegal under the Criminal Code.


The problem with the wording is, if it isn't taken to mean unprovoked (as in, in the same interaction as the initiating solicitation event) it is far too broad to apply, and creates some funny loopholes (not that those aren't common in law I suppose).

Additionally, did the scalper even solicit the person in that video? If he solicits someone, then a third party yells at him, I assume it's ok to scream profanities?

Again, the SSA deems it illegal for a seller to "use abusive language" during or after the solicitation. One could reasonably imply that the abusive language has to be directed at the person the seller was trying to solicit. I'm not sure who was solicited in the video.


Right, so section 1 depends on section 2, and section 2 depends on the definition of prohibition of entry (section three) so, since the disagreement lies in section 3, I'll just address that. Explace is only gated during the ex. At other parts of the year it is not gated. So, since ExPlace isn't a garden, field, or land under cultivation (a), and without a gate/fence around the land it can't be reasonably assumed that the occupier intended people to keep out (b) we have to conclude that the scalpers cannot be charged for trespassing under those definitions.

As for the last point, of course they can't claim right of entry to break the law, but in order to get that to stand, you would need to prove a law was broken. So, essentially it's a house of cards balanced on the TSA.

I wasn't very clear in my original argument. What I was trying to point out is that a scalper can be charged with trespassing if he engages in any prohibited activity at ExPlace; it doesn't necessarily need to involve a violation of the Ticket Speculation Act.

There's actually another provision of the TPA that I was trying to convey without reproducing it in full, but you're too inquisitive for that, so here it is:

4(1): Where notice is given that one or more particular activities are permitted, all other activities and entry for the purpose are prohibited and any additional notice that entry is prohibited or a particular activity is prohibited on the same premises shall be construed to be for greater certainty only.
4(2): Where entry on premises is not prohibited under section 3 or by notice that one or more particular activities are permitted under subsection (1), and notice is given that a particular activity is prohibited, that activity and entry for the purpose is prohibited and all other activities and entry for the purpose are not prohibited.

What this means is that, if scalping (or "ticket reselling", or "solicitation") is prohibited at ExPlace (by notice), then the police/security do not need to "enforce" the Ticket Speculation Act in order to charge scalpers. They can simply charge scalpers with trespassing.

I don't dispute your point that dealing with scalpers would require additional resources. I think the police who are there shouldn't be ignoring it, but it could also be accomplished with rent-a-cops.

[McBrace]

Well it will be good when someone gets a good face bashing for telling a scalper to Fuck off won't it..
Smart move advocating the use of Fuck off to solve shit


Telling someone to FUCK OFF is a far gry from bashing in someones face, don't you think? Like it was posted before, the scalpers will need to have thicker skin, it's not like people are jumping these guys. These Scalpers have not earned the right to have poeple telling them no in a repected manner.

Fuck off is the correct response.

[Lenny Dikestra]

Telling someone to FUCK OFF is a far gry from bashing in someones face, don't you think? Like it was posted before, the scalpers will need to have thicker skin, it's not like people are jumping these guys. These Scalpers have not earned the right to have poeple telling them no in a repected manner.

Fuck off is the correct response.

sometimes if you tell someone to Fuck Off you get a face bashing..

I would expect more from the President of this group thats all..

So Fuck Off

[Jack]

So then do it in a fashion that can be respected.. telling people to Fcuk Off ..??????

How does that support TFC

Eliminating scalping of TFC tickets, or even getting the tickets out of the hands of one scalper and into the hands of one supporter, supports TFC.

[BC101]

Thats exactly what i'd expect from Jack... he's the prez yes... but he's also a supporter and a person I say good on him... And thanks for providing me with valuable moments of comedy.

[Pyeddo]

Anyone ever think that, similar to other MLSE owned team's events (Raps, Leafs, Marlies), which all have scalpers out front of the venue.... like, DIRECTLY outfront of the venues.... that there are higher powers at work here? No one's wondered if maybe a larger brokerage agency is in cahoots with MLSE, and thereby a trickle down effect happens where smaller ticket brokers get their supply?

There was that large scandal a month or two ago which resulted in several high level resignations/firings for ticket "irregularties"..... seems pretty evident that while not completely working togther, scalpers and MLSE have a little "nod nod, say no more say no more" going on...

In the end, its all business right

[Hooligan69]

sometimes if you tell someone to Fuck Off you get a face bashing..


Do you know this from experience?

[Lenny Dikestra]

Do you know this from experience?


Yes actually.. real life experience.. :eek:

[VoxPopuliCosmicum]

Anyone ever think that, similar to other MLSE owned team's events (Raps, Leafs, Marlies), which all have scalpers out front of the venue.... like, DIRECTLY outfront of the venues.... that there are higher powers at work here? No one's wondered if maybe a larger brokerage agency is in cahoots with MLSE, and thereby a trickle down effect happens where smaller ticket brokers get their supply?

There was that large scandal a month or two ago which resulted in several high level resignations/firings for ticket "irregularties"..... seems pretty evident that while not completely working togther, scalpers and MLSE have a little "nod nod, say no more say no more" going on...

In the end, its all business right

My faith in humanity is now shattered.

[Jack]

sometimes if you tell someone to Fuck Off you get a face bashing..

I would expect more from the President of this group thats all..

So Fuck Off
Sorry to disappoint you, buddy.:cool:

[blackandwhite]

Is anyone keeping track of how many tickets these guys sell??? I don't want them to miss out on MLS Awards for ticket sales!!

[AL-MO]

Telling someone to FUCK OFF is a far gry from bashing in someones face, don't you think? Like it was posted before, the scalpers will need to have thicker skin, it's not like people are jumping these guys. These Scalpers have not earned the right to have poeple telling them no in a repected manner.

Fuck off is the correct response.


I agree I take worse punishment from my buddies when Portugal loses, then what is said to Scalpers.

[McBrace]

I agree I take worse punishment from my buddies when Portugal loses, then what is said to Scalpers.


That makes two of us!

And if the shit heads want to bash someones face in for telling them to fuck off then, they're looking to have bigger issues other than scalping fines. How's an assault charge work for you?

[McBrace]

Sorry to disappoint you, buddy.:cool:

Diappointing one outta 1000 ain't bad man. Keep up the good work!:D

[AL-MO]

That makes two of us!

And if the shit heads want to bash someones face in for telling them to fuck off then, they're looking to have bigger issues other than scalping fines. How's an assault charge work for you?


Noone is going to get their face bashed in. I am more than confident TFC fans (from all groups) can stand up/defend themselves if necessary.

I think the last two road trips proved that.

[Lenny Dikestra]

Diappointing one outta 1000 ain't bad man. Keep up the good work!:D

Yes Jack you should be real proud of that comment you have made..
Shows you really support the team

fyi - you could not disappoint me ..
I have read all your post in the past , it just surprised me that you would say that..
onward

[Parkdale]

My faith in humanity is now shattered.

whoa... a lawyer has lost his faith in humanity?

well now you know how it makes the rest of us feel!

:D

[McBrace]

Yes Jack you should be real proud of that comment you have made..
Shows you really support the team

fyi - you could not disappoint me ..
I have read all your post in the past , it just surprised me that you would say that..
onward

Why soooo sensitive over a simple fuck off? to people you don't even know. or do you?

JAck isn't asking or supporting an attack on these guys, just simple supporting people that aren't as polite as you in their response.

[masrawy]

Did I ever tell that guy cussing out the scalper that I fucking love him? Because I do.

No homo.

[FluSH]

BUMP....

Any journos wanna story to talk about... here you go! Supporters vs Scalpers...

[Oblio2]

Noone is going to get their face bashed in. I am more than confident TFC fans (from all groups) can stand up/defend themselves if necessary.

I think the last two road trips proved that.


As I said before, as the TFCfans are flooding through the gates....if the Scalpers decided to kick off, simply because someone told them to fuck off.....then I would imagine there would be more than enough people who would happily put the boots to these scum-fuckers. Mob beating. Fuck yeah.
Suck on that douches!!
*disclaimer. I am not advocating violence on scalpers, merely pointing out that TFC fans will defend in numbers

[BBBulldog]

we had scalper that would come to Barra tailgate and sell tickets which is problem because we're general admission so people buy from them and just walk in. Didn't matter, threaten him or be nice he'd come back after a while. So we just got cops to arrest him few times, haven't seen him since hehe (I'm sure he'll be back, didn't seem too bright)

Should have just rushed that fat guy in movie and got some free tickets like Torcida last year :D

[Blazer]

Hopefully our parasite calling compadre explained to this scalper why we don’t appreciate him selling otherwise it just appears like a couple of goons bantering fruitless obscenities back and forth. If they don’t know why we are rittled with hatred for them then we’ve really beaten ourselves.

[Blazer]

~We could chant while inside of the stadium and direct it at the police~

"You’re paid to give help,
You’re paid to give haaaaaaalp,
Write a bloody ticket mate,
Get rid of the scalps!"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCXHbCYvzjI

[Torcida]

Why the police do not go after scalpers?

Well, I am suspicious that the Toronto police and MLSE have made a deal in this regard. A clue would be the .pdf on torontofc.ca that is a letter from the Toronto Police force adressing TFC fans, specifically tailgater's. The police has effectively ruined tailgating for everybody which was always a great time the year previous where nothing bad ever happened. There was no precedent for the police to strongly enforce drinking AND having an open flame at tailgates, none whatsoever. What better way to drive up food and beverage sales at BMO then to stop tailgating? MLSE's only concern is the bottom line in reality so in a business sense, while a bold move was a smart one for them to contact the Toronto Police about this. To look like good guys and save themselves from legal problems, they allowed people to bring in a bottle of water to games, and have two, three water fountains at BMO, wow thankyou so much!!!

Scalping on the other hand is great for business, Paul can tell you that, not that he will. It drives up the price of tickets, keeps TFC from not selling out (bad weather, etc) and keeps the demand for tickets very high especially for season's. With all these positives, why would MLSE dare to tell the police to stop scalping. The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach, me, my family and friends, loyal TFC fans, have had all kinds of problems with cops this year but it's ok for these criminals to loiter around harassing everyone who walks to the gates at BMO.

The only thing we can do as supporters, is stop purchasing season's or stop purchasing food and beverages at BMO, I'm going to start doing the latter, I hope some of you will to.

[Hooligan69]

The only thing we can do as supporters, is stop purchasing season's or stop purchasing food and beverages at BMO, I'm going to start doing the latter, I hope some of you will to.

I've already stopped spending money at BMO and don't plan on reversing that decision anytime soon.

[juki]

I'm sorry but the problem is not the scalpers...I know I will shatter some dreams when I say that the cops are the real problems here. If they were as heavy handed with the scalpers as with drunks then there wouldn't be a huge issue. However to allow illigal activities out in the open like that and then ride their donkeys looking for trouble, sends the wrong signal. I have no use for those assholes and it is a shame people still worship them, when it is so obvious that they are as bad as any criminal...biggest gang in the world, I say fuck them!!

[Kickit09]

i wouldn't be surprised if these scalpers are working directly for MLSE... kinda like a ticket agent.

i know it sounds crazy, but i wouldnt put it past MLSE.

[Blazer]

If the police don’t give a shit about scalpers at Leaf/ Jays game why the hell would they care about soccer games? MLSE’s help on this is the only solution and unfortunately that’s a long shot.

[Blazer]

i wouldn't be surprised if these scalpers are working directly for MLSE... kinda like a ticket agent.

i know it sounds crazy, but i wouldnt put it past MLSE.

There’s no conspiracies bro. They’re low-life bums trying to “make a living” is what they are. One guy told me that himself when I called him out.

[adampz]

Some people say fuck the scalpers, and some are saying oh well nothing we can do about it leave them alone i guess, i think the reason we're all sick and tired of the scalpers, is cause they're selling tickets in the supporter sections, which makes it impossible for real die hard fans, to come to tfc fans. I wouldnt mind that much if scalpers were selling their tickets in the west and east stands.

[Blazer]

Some people say fuck the scalpers, and some are saying oh well nothing we can do about it leave them alone i guess, i think the reason we're all sick and tired of the scalpers, is cause they're selling tickets in the supporter sections, which makes it impossible for real die hard fans, to come to tfc fans. I wouldnt mind that much if scalpers were selling their tickets in the west and east stands.

Exactamundo my friend! And only MLSE can make this happen with enough lobbying from us.

[BakaGaijin]

I'm sorry but the problem is not the scalpers...I know I will shatter some dreams when I say that the cops are the real problems here. If they were as heavy handed with the scalpers as with drunks then there wouldn't be a huge issue. However to allow illigal activities out in the open like that and then ride their donkeys looking for trouble, sends the wrong signal. I have no use for those assholes and it is a shame people still worship them, when it is so obvious that they are as bad as any criminal...biggest gang in the world, I say fuck them!!

The problem is, the police seem to have other pre-occupations.........

Two police officers charged in grow-op bust

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080703.wcopdrugbust0703/BNStory/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20080703.wcopdrugbust0703

[werewolf]

The only thing we can do as supporters, is stop purchasing season's or stop purchasing food and beverages at BMO, I'm going to start doing the latter, I hope some of you will to.


I buy a powerade at half-time, to prevent dehydration (maybe water would be better anyway), but perhaps I will start bringing an empty water bottle (if full ones aren't allowed) and just fill it up, assuming I can access the water fountains. But I try not to spend more then that.

[Hooligan69]

The problem is, the police seem to have other pre-occupations.........

Two police officers charged in grow-op bust

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080703.wcopdrugbust0703/BNStory/National/?page=rss&id=RTGAM.20080703.wcopdrugbust0703

Why am I not surprised to see stuff like this? This whole frickin' city is corrupt.

[NateDoGG]

im so glad u guys got that on tape


man i wish i was there for that, i woulda been all over that fat old fuck. pos cunts

[TicTacTabarnack]

Why am I not surprised to see stuff like this? This whole frickin' city is corrupt.

Good point ... Who do we have to grease to get real grass pronto so that we can sign Huckerby by taking away one of his biggest worries?:confused:

[adampz]

all you guys need is a group of 6 foot 5 weight lifters, ittl be like hoolie fights over in europe, except you're fighting the scalpers:)

[Jack]

Hopefully our parasite calling compadre explained to this scalper why we don’t appreciate him selling otherwise it just appears like a couple of goons bantering fruitless obscenities back and forth. If they don’t know why we are rittled with hatred for them then we’ve really beaten ourselves.

They know. We let them know what we think of them on a regular basis.


The best part is, often there are tickets available at the box office and people don't even make it there because of the scumbags.

We should stand out there and tell people to try the box office first.

[Oblio2]

Some people say fuck the scalpers, and some are saying oh well nothing we can do about it leave them alone i guess, i think the reason we're all sick and tired of the scalpers, is cause they're selling tickets in the supporter sections, which makes it impossible for real die hard fans, to come to tfc fans. I wouldnt mind that much if scalpers were selling their tickets in the west and east stands.


Bullshit.
There are some of us round the stadium, not just the south end.
Sayings it's ok in one area but not in yours is bollocks

[Blazer]

They know. We let them know what we think of them on a regular basis.


The best part is, often there are tickets available at the box office and people don't even make it there because of the scumbags.

We should stand out there and tell people to try the box office first.

Is it because people assume that there are no tickets to be had at the box office? Surely people are dumb enough to think that they can buy a scalped ticket for cheaper than BO tiks?

[RicoSuave44]

I've noticed that lately the scalpers are more and more agressive. A few weeks ago I told one of them to piss off and he almost started a fight. Maybe our agression is feeding their aggression?
Either way, they are scum and need be dealt with. I know they are a tough, connected bunch of thugs, but surely a few hundred TFC fans could scare them off, if even for a single match.
What if a large group of us, say 100 or more, staged a protest against them before the next match. We could stand in their area and be vocal about our feelings towards them. If they started to get rowdy there'd be too many of us for them to get physical.
Sorry if the above has been discussed already in the thread, I didn't wanna sift through 6 pages.

Thoughts?

[Blazer]

^ They’ll only relocate to sell their tickets elsewhere.

[Canadian Blue]

Just walk past them........we are not the scalper police

[canadian_bhoy]

Anyone catch the classic laugh by RedRat at the end? I love it!

[Mikey]

Just walk past them........we are not the scalper police

Interesting point.
We do have power of citizens arrest if we witness a crime taking place.

Perhaps we can embarrass the police into taking action if we offer say 100 people walking around CNE as a single group, making citizens arrests, preventing the offender from fleeing the scene and handing them over to peace officers.

Actually, just publicly making the offer of "assistance" to the police through Mayor Miller would get them off their arses.

:D

[Parkdale]

Anyone catch the classic laugh by RedRat at the end? I love it!


I made sure to keep that in the video. It should be my trademark.

[Jack]

Is it because people assume that there are no tickets to be had at the box office? Surely people are dumb enough to think that they can buy a scalped ticket for cheaper than BO tiks?

I guess people have believed the hype and assume there are no tickets.


Just walk past them........we are not the scalper police
You do that. I won't.

[brad]

I guess people have believed the hype and assume there are no tickets.


You do that. I won't.

Are there normally tickets for sale at the BO close to kick off?

[Blazer]

^ Perfect example I suppose?!

[Jack]

Are there normally tickets for sale at the BO close to kick off?

Sometimes. Getting there early is better, but people have got them.

It sure is worth a try, rather than giving your money to the parasites.

[brad]

^ Perfect example I suppose?!

Nope, I have seasons. Wondering mainly for friends that are always asking me about tickets.

[Blazer]

^ Yeah that’s what I mean. If STHs aren’t even aware that they can be purchased then why the hell would the GP?

[Mark in Ottawa]

Moral of the story... scalping of event tickets is illegal for both the buyer and the seller.

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=2398

[MartinUtd]

We should stand out there and tell people to try the box office first.

Maybe one of you guys with the megaphones could undertake this. I'm sure that would provide an unprovoked a response from the scum... plus it would be damn hilarious to see their customers herded away like sheep

[ricciboy]

My understanding of law and scalpers are this (Quebec Version):

Its not illegal for someone to sell the ticket for more than face value if the person buying states the price.

If the scalper says the price, it is illegal.

So, if you go to a scalper and he says $65 per ticket...thats illegal

But, if you go to scalper and he barters you to an agreement above the face value, its not. Hence how eBay gets away with it. You agreed to the price.

.....I think

one guy followed me and my dad and keep asking to buy tickets and we said no but he keep following us so we told him to fuck off and called the cops near gate 1 he ran

[London]

try calling them diddlers!!!
they got real pissed off yesterday at that comment!!!
people actually had to be restrained!!!

actually, dont call them that, its not worth it!!

[BC101]

There was one Diddler by the exit for the tunnel he was wearing one of those you know pieces of cloth that middle eastern people use to pray or w/e cept he was wearing it round his neck LOL.. Made me laugh...

[London]

i personally witnessed 1 scalper getting ticketed at gate 3, and rite in front of the go tunnel another 1 was in handcuffs and his two buddies, had there hands up against the police golf cart.
i stopped and watched and the cops told me to leave!!!

i called the scalper scum and walked away laughing!!

[Parkdale]

^ good to hear something is happening. The scene yesterday wasn't pretty with that diddler.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

saw one scalper getting ticket yesterday near the BMO box office,,,hoiw stupid can they be thats twice in a row!!!

[Dunkers]

I think it would be great if a group of people pulled up to the go train stop with a cooler of beer (alcohol free) and a rolled cigarette behind the ear,and a lawn chair and just sat next to the scalpers and had a party, the cops would be all over that in a heartbeat, and when they find out there is nothing illegal going on they would start pressuring for loitering charges, at which point we would all ask why it isn't loitering if we are selling tickets ILLEGALLY!!

[TFC John]

Interesting point.
We do have power of citizens arrest if we witness a crime taking place.

Perhaps we can embarrass the police into taking action if we offer say 100 people walking around CNE as a single group, making citizens arrests, preventing the offender from fleeing the scene and handing them over to peace officers.

Actually, just publicly making the offer of "assistance" to the police through Mayor Miller would get them off their arses.

:D

Your powers of citizen arrest are limited within the Criminal Code of Canada
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/C-46/bo-ga:l_XVI-gb:s_494//en#anchorbo-ga:l_XVI-gb:s_494

You can only arrest someone who is committing an "Indictable Offence" or is fleeing from the police. Since scalping is covered under the Ticket Speculation Act of Ontario;
http://www.search.e-laws.gov.on.ca/en/isysquery/02072675-851b-43bc-9538-a62a80081818/1/frame/?search=browseStatutes&context=

I doubt it would be dealt with as an Indictable Offence.

I'm not a lawyer, but I would say you would be unwise to attempt to make a citizens arrest unless you see a clear threat to someone's personal safety. And picking a fight just so your buddies can arrest a scalper probably won't look too good when you're standing in front of the magistrate.

The law wants you to report low level criminal activity like this and let the Police deal with it. That's what we pay them for. We also pay them to decide how to spend their time and resources. One way to influence their decisions is through the number of complaints they get.

[Mikey]

doubt anyone would consider wandering around CNE in a mob looking for diddlers.... point was if we even suggest such a thing, the old bill would shit a cow and be out in huge numbers to save face.

As for what happens if a diddler starts a fight, I somehow doubt the phrase "reasonable force" and citizens arrest would be foremost in anyones mind....

[Flipityflu]

in the end, if the club itself is unwilling to stop it, what can we really do to stop it?

as far as i'm concerned, its the club that has the ultimate responsibility, and that is where the blame should be. how hard is it to work with the cops in determining who the scalpers are, what tickets they have, and if they are seasons tickets. if so, revoke them.

[GaryJamboTFC]

sometimes if you tell someone to Fuck Off you get a face bashing..
I would expect more from the President of this group thats all..
So Fuck Off

I thought Kenny the fuckhole troll was banned from the old board, why not save yourselves the aggravation and bounce his useless arse from this one too?

[blackandwhite]

There was one Diddler by the exit for the tunnel he was wearing one of those you know pieces of cloth that middle eastern terrorists use to mask their face for videos LOL! cept he was wearing it round his neck LOL.. Made me laugh...

WOW!! Fucking guy... Full of hate and ignorance eh.. Stop playing video games and learn about the planet you live in!!

[Fort York Redcoat]

TFC John knows the deal.

It sounds like this last game was a show of force for the police. I wouldn't be surprised if the scalper scum drifted further from the stadium but the next home game is a couple weeks away. It's getting obvious that this event is going to be less profitable for the scum over time. I'm sure the practice won't be eradicated but hope springs eternal.

[Mango Kid]

It's even worse now that somehow it's become legal for Ticketmaster to own StubHub.

I believe eBay owns StubHub now. TicketRaper has created its own auction site within TicketRaper.com.

[Jack]

I believe eBay owns StubHub now. TicketRaper has created its own auction site within TicketRaper.com.
Yeah, I cleared that up.

It's ticketsnow that is owned by TicketRaper (:rofl:)

[BC101]

WOW!! Fucking guy... Full of hate and ignorance eh.. Stop playing video games and learn about the planet you live in!!
pretty bold words coming from you... Filled with most hate/ignorance than anyone else on the board... Oh by the way the guy wearing the item in question was black not middle eastern or turkish... So get off yer high horse of thinking I was hating on Muslims...I have nothing against those of Muslim religion, Its 2008 not the Crusades Catholic's and Muslims shouldn't hate each other. I was just laughing at a Scalper acting hard.

[Parkdale]

if there's ANY more mention of the headscarf thing, I'm killing the posts.

BC - your comments were not appropriate. Refering to the scarf as 'the thing terrorists use to cover their faces' was way out of line.

back to the real enemy - the organized criminals who sell tickets.

[blackandwhite]

pretty bold words coming from you... Filled with most hate/ignorance than anyone else on the board... Oh by the way the guy wearing the item in question was black not middle eastern or turkish... So get off yer high horse of thinking I was hating on Muslims...I have nothing against those of Muslim religion, Its 2008 not the Crusades Catholic's and Muslims shouldn't hate each other. I was just laughing at a Scalper acting hard.

hahahah ok dude :) you just labeled a piece of clothing worn by millions of people as terrorist. anyways.. back to scalpers.

[BC101]

if there's ANY more mention of the headscarf thing, I'm killing the posts.

BC - your comments were not appropriate. Refering to the scarf as 'the thing terrorists use to cover their faces' was way out of line.

back to the real enemy - the organized criminals who sell tickets.
Thats the only person I was REALLY laughing at he was acting hard with it thats all. I thought it were funny it'd be just as funny if he wore a blue or red bandana... Which would've made more sense.

[BC101]

hahahah ok dude :) you just labeled a piece of clothing worn by millions of people as terrorist. anyways.. back to scalpers.
Yeah fine a bad description i'll concede that point and change my description but shit... I wasn't even caring about that I was just caring about the Scalper trying to act hard and intimidate people.

[blackandwhite]

dude let's go beat one up next game...OR.... bring him into 112 and show him the mid 112 and how it fucks up the unity between top of 112 and bottom of 112. Maybe he will feel bad and reconsider his actions!

[BC101]

dude let's go beat one up next game...

Shaughno's friend said that yesterday and I was all for it. I think his exact words is we should just rush them. And keep doing it till they dont return. Cause this one in particular was trying to be all rough with me when I said I had a ticket he raised his voice and shit...

[Shaughno]

Yeah, it's funny Vic has been saying it since last year. KdotOdot has been saying it as well.

[BC101]

Yeah, it's funny Vic has been saying it since last year. KdotOdot has been saying it as well.
LOL Vic... thats his name... I didn't get it from him at all. Well the Scalpers are getting REAL bold now... they are at the actual gates now...

[Dave67]

LOL Vic... thats his name... I didn't get it from him at all. Well the Scalpers are getting REAL bold now... they are at the actual gates now...

That's the part I don't get. I mean at the ACC they stand right beside the police at the entrance to the ACC and the police say & do nothing. Anyway I'm glad to hear the police actually went after a handful of them Saturday night.

[Dave67]

dude let's go beat one up next game...OR.... bring him into 112 and show him the mid 112 and how it fucks up the unity between top of 112 and bottom of 112. Maybe he will feel bad and reconsider his actions!


Don't want to take this way off topic. Was the water fountain problem in 113 cleared up for Saturday?

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

TFC John knows the deal.

It sounds like this last game was a show of force for the police. I wouldn't be surprised if the scalper scum drifted further from the stadium but the next home game is a couple weeks away. It's getting obvious that this event is going to be less profitable for the scum over time. I'm sure the practice won't be eradicated but hope springs eternal.

talking to a scalper buddy of mine...don't worry folks he does leafs,jays
ti cats and concerts. he was saying a few of his buddy's could get rid of tickets one had 40 left over!!! Risky Business.

[TFC John]

if there's ANY more mention of the headscarf thing, I'm killing the posts.

BC - your comments were not appropriate. Refering to the scarf as 'the thing terrorists use to cover their faces' was way out of line.

back to the real enemy - the organized criminals who sell tickets.

Perhaps this should be in the Ask Parkdale thread but ... why will you turn a blind eye to people advocating violence but then get upset when the thread starts to move towards insulting someone's religion?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPAC_cGVnUg

[Parkdale]

^ because I know that the treats of violence are hollow talk on the internet.
Saying that a headscarf is a 'terrorist thing' is a slur to... a billion people? More?

[BakaGaijin]

Response I received from the Councillor:

Good afternoon Mr. BakaGaijin,

Thank you for contacting Councillor Pantalone with your concerns. I can see you have strong feelings about ensuring BMO Field remains a safe and inviting place for all to enjoy. I have passed on your comments to the Councillor for review and notified Toronto Police Services.

Could you kindly provide me with your full address and a contact number for our records and follow up.
Please feel free to contact Councillor Pantalone in the future.

Sincerely,
Angelina Conte
on behalf of


Joe Pantalone
Deputy Mayor
City of Toronto

p. 416.392.4009
f. 416.392.4100
e. councillor_pantalone@toronto.ca

[Parkdale]

^ very nice!

[blackandwhite]

they are gonna come beat you up!!! hahahahahah

[Hooligan69]

^ because I know that the treats of violence are hollow talk on the internet.


I'm gonna kick your ass from pillar to post.

:rofl:

[BC101]

^ because I know that the treats of violence are hollow talk on the internet.
Saying that a headscarf is a 'terrorist thing' is a slur to... a billion people? More?
Theres a guy running around here calling himself "The Pope" and its because he believes in all that DaVinci code nonsense...Believes the Catholic Church are responsible for all the evil in the world etc etc... As a Church going Catholic that offends me why is he not been chastised by you people yet.

Theres 2 Billion or so Catholics in the world BTW...

[BakaGaijin]

they are gonna come beat you up!!! hahahahahah

.........that's why I gave them your address. :p

[TO DEVILS]

Theres a guy running around here calling himself "The Pope" and its because he believes in all that DaVinci code nonsense...Believes the Catholic Church are responsible for all the evil in the world etc etc... As a Church going Catholic that offends me why is he not been chastised by you people yet.

Theres 2 Billion or so Catholics in the world BTW...

U must have missed the memo...it is ok to be racist towards white folk, or catholics. White Catholic even more so.

The same way on TV guys like Cris Rock makes jokes about crakers all the time and nobody has an issue, as soon as someone says the N word all hell breaks loose.

The crux of the matter is, racism is accepted, depending on who is racist and who is being targetted by the racism.

[BC101]

U must have missed the memo...it is ok to be racist towards white folk, or catholics. White Catholic even more so.

The same way on TV guys like Cris Rock makes jokes about crakers all the time and nobody has an issue, as soon as someone says the N word all hell breaks loose.

The crux of the matter is, racism is accepted, depending on who is racist and who is being targetted by the racism.

My bad... I wasn't even trying to be racist... though thats the thing.. I just described what he was wearing badly... Ah well... Damn so should I convert to the United Church or something?!?!?! Oh i dislike Chris Rock and I don't find him funny at all is that odd? LOL

[blackandwhite]

.........that's why I gave them your address. :p

Honestly man I walked by them again last game nothing happened to lead to a confrontation. If you don't even make eye contact they don't do anything to you! Obviously if you go looking for stuff they'll react back..

I am curious where this is gonna go..

[TO DEVILS]

My bad... I wasn't even trying to be racist... though thats the thing.. I just described what he was wearing badly... Ah well... Damn so should I convert to the United Church or something?!?!?! Oh i dislike Chris Rock and I don't find him funny at all is that odd? LOL

That's racism. :D

[BC101]

Honestly man I walked by them again last game nothing happened to lead to a confrontation. If you don't even make eye contact they don't do anything to you! Obviously if you go looking for stuff they'll react back..

I am curious where this is gonna go..

Ofcourse their not gonna fuck with you... you are prob surrounded by some people.. I go through alone at most times and if I say I have a ticket they react aggressively without cause.

[TO DEVILS]

Honestly man I walked by them again last game nothing happened to lead to a confrontation. If you don't even make eye contact they don't do anything to you! Obviously if you go looking for stuff they'll react back..

I am curious where this is gonna go..

...to the nearest obstructed water fountain.

[BC101]

That's racism. :D
OH SNAP! black on black racism??!?!?! I guess it happens LOL.

[TO DEVILS]

Ofcourse their not gonna fuck with you... you are prob surrounded by some people.. I go through alone at most times and if I say I have a ticket they react aggressively without cause.

That's racism.:D

[TO DEVILS]

OH SNAP! black on black racism??!?!?! I guess it happens LOL.

Of course it does...there are different shades of black.

That sounded racist.:D

[blackandwhite]

Ofcourse their not gonna fuck with you... you are prob surrounded by some people.. I go through alone at most times and if I say I have a ticket they react aggressively without cause.

fine i'll walk you to the gate next time! not holding your hand tho!! :)

[TO DEVILS]

fine i'll walk you to the gate next time! not holding your hand tho!! :)

Why? U racist or something?:D

[Hooligan69]

Never had any problems with the scalping scum at BMO.

[BC101]

fine i'll walk you to the gate next time! not holding your hand tho!! :)
saving that for KC when the KKK comes after us LOL.

[Parkdale]

Theres 2 Billion or so Catholics in the world BTW...

actually... the total number of Muslims worldwide just passed the numbed of Christians. It was in the news.

[BakaGaijin]

Of course it does...there are different shades of black.

That sounded racist.:D

Tutsi v.s. Hutu

[TicTacTabarnack]

Guys ... We're beating a dead horse here! :deadhorse: (Just wanted to finally use this sexy emoticon)

Get back to the subject at hand! Scalping Scum! Perosites of the Earth or Friendly Neighborhood Ticket Broker. Discuss...

[MartinUtd]

Who coined the term "diddlers" for referring to scalpers (and not Gary Glitter)

[Parkdale]

there was an incident on the weekend where one seemed to take great offense to it.

[Hooligan69]

Guys ... We're beating a dead horse here! :deadhorse: (Just wanted to finally use this sexy emoticon)

Get back to the subject at hand! Scalping Scum! Perosites of the Earth or Friendly Neighborhood Ticket Broker. Discuss...

Parasites even? ;)

[London]

i have fired off, 3 emails to 14th division in the last week and got no response!!

[Canadian Blue]

Maybe you guys should write to the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police (OACP) and ask to be a special Police Force to battle against them mean ole nasty scalpers.......or just walk past them.

[Jack]

Maybe you guys should write to the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police (OACP) and ask to be a special Police Force to battle against them mean ole nasty scalpers.......or just walk past them.

Your passive stance is noted.:p

[Pigfynn]

Maybe you guys should write to the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police (OACP) and ask to be a special Police Force to battle against them mean ole nasty scalpers.......or just walk past them.


Why are you even posting on a thread that clearly is against all things scalper? You've said you don't think it's a big deal like 10 fucking times! Go start a "I don't mind scalpers thread" already!

[Shaughno]

Pigfynn.. you have to realize, he's a Citeh fan. It clouds his judgement. ;)

[BakaGaijin]

So.......GO Transit called me today a left a message regarding my concerns about scalpers on their property. They assured me that they will be enforcing a no scalping policy on their property. However, they mentioned that the scalpers have now moved off their property and are operating on CNE grounds. They cannot do anything about them when they are off of their property.

Time to write another letter....

[StandUpIfYouHateChelsea]

OK as we all know for the canada game there will be a huge march with all the supporters groups, ive tolerated the scalp[ers shit till now but if i see them scalping canada tickets i mite just loose it hmmm i think we should just take the tickets they have and give them away for free to ppl at the ex who would support canada :canada::canada::canada::canada:

[sully]

So.......GO Transit called me today a left a message regarding my concerns about scalpers on their property. They assured me that they will be enforcing a no scalping policy on their property. However, they mentioned that the scalpers have now moved off their property and are operating on CNE grounds. They cannot do anything about them when they are off of their property.

Time to write another letter....\

good for you..keep it up..

[TheHollister]

I feel so left out now. Scalpers never talk to me!

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

I can't stand scalpers. They give me the creeps, they get pissed if you won't buy from them, and they buy up tickets so people can't buy them from the box office. Then you've got those online ticket sites, that are essentially legal scalpers, selling tickets at major profits. F*ck scalpers to hell.

[Brooker]

okay... seriously. you know when you're walking around d/t Toronto and a homeless person asks for change? most people dont even acknowledge them and just keep on walking. Do the same with the scalpers. they will leave you alone! (sorry homeless people i dont mean to insult you by that comparison.)

i hate the cunts but the cops aren't doing a hell of a lot. WTF?

[BuSaPuNk]

In no way am I saying scalpers are in the right. Yes i think they prey on people and rip them off totally. But here is my deal with them. Would I buy tickets from a scalper outside of the venue? No. I do however use Stubhub that is how I got leafs tickets for my gf b-day. And unfortunatley that is the only way that my gf knows how to get tickets to a TFC game for my b-day. As long as MLSE run this team and others (leafs, raptors, rock) they will allow these scalpers to sell there tickets becuase there the same people that allow them to buy them in the first place. I support this team just as much as everyone else but if the only way I can get to the game I will use Stubhub and TicketsNow and such. That is just the nature of the beast.

[rocktml]

I think it's about time we (the true TFC fans) take things into our own hands, I'm done waiting for the police to do something about it.....

Remember THIS IS OUR HOUSE!!

[Derko]

Luckily I am a STH, but occasionally like to get extra tickets, when I was at the Montreal game I went to the ticket booth to enquire about a pair of All-Star tickets, got a pair for 128.00, I guess i was luck. as for the scalpers, when I am asked if I need or are selling tickets, I say no thanks and carry on. and that is entering the stadium by myself or with 1 other person. just walk on by.

[RPB_AFTER_DARK]

just do what i do for fun with scalpers go with a buddie this is key.

1) get off go train head up to a scalper
2) look interested
3) take money out ready to buy
4) get buddy to come up and say u can have this supporters seat at cost

lol then look at the guys face, if everyone that took the go train would do this be classic every game

[Sonny Cheeba]

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-tickets-toronto-fc-single-games-W0QQAdIdZ66060305

those prices are rediculous.

[grimm]

I think it's about time we (the true TFC fans) take things into our own hands, I'm done waiting for the police to do something about it.....

Remember THIS IS OUR HOUSE!!

Let's call Chuck to go vigilante on these mutha'uckas!!!

[BakaGaijin]

So.......GO Transit called me today a left a message regarding my concerns about scalpers on their property. They assured me that they will be enforcing a no scalping policy on their property. However, they mentioned that the scalpers have now moved off their property and are operating on CNE grounds. They cannot do anything about them when they are off of their property.

Time to write another letter....

Looks like GO Transit are doing their part.......I have not seen any scalpers on GO property recently. However, the scumbags are still active on CNE property. I wrote a letter to the CNE and here is the response from the manager of Security Services that I received today:


BakaGaijin,

Thank you for bringing this concern forward to us. We are currently working with the Toronto Polices Services, GO Transit and Toronto Transit Commission to address this concern. Working within our policies we have been actively enforcing the Exhibition Place by-laws as it pertains to occurrences such as this. Please feel free to report such incidents in the future to the Exhibition Place Security Services Department at (416) 263-3333 or if you would like to communicate further you can contact me through the information listed below.

Once again thank you for bringing this forward,



Ed Wiersma, CPO, SSMP | Manager, Security Services | Exhibition Place
2 Manitoba Drive | Toronto, ON M6K 3C3 |Phone: (416) 263-3638 | Fax: (416) 263-3261

[I_AM_CANADIAN]

Nice one, hopefully they actually mean that and will have the cops out there keeping scalpers away.

[T_Mizz]

Doubt that a guy asked us while we were in line at gate 1 and a cop was right there not ten feet away
The only thing scalpers are good for is so you don't have to eat a set of tickets if you have four and two jerks cancel on you last second and you can't find someone to replace them but still nedtomake sure you get cost

[BakaGaijin]

Doubt that a guy asked us while we were in line at gate 1 and a cop was right there not ten feet away
The only thing scalpers are good for is so you don't have to eat a set of tickets if you have four and two jerks cancel on you last second and you can't find someone to replace them but still nedtomake sure you get cost

I think we should notify the CNE security by calling (416) 263-3333 when we see these scalping scumbags and see if the security will deal with the problem. That's what the Manager of Security has advised us to do.

The cops have probably been directed to watch out for "hooligans", and bullshit like that.

[sulfur]

Funnily enough, there was a scalper wandering through the tailgate last week trying to buy or sell. Idiots.

[gmacpheetfc]

There seems to be a heck of a lot of speculators out there that have purchased tickets thinking demand would be up this year.....over 1000 tickets available for Atlanta on stubhub after home opener tickets were available for $5

[JonO]

There seems to be a heck of a lot of speculators out there that have purchased tickets thinking demand would be up this year.....over 1000 tickets available for Atlanta on stubhub after home opener tickets were available for $5
I think there is an overstated interest in the club, especially for cold, rainy, early season games. I couldn't make it to the season opener and practically could not give my tickets away. Outside of the supporters sections, there is still a very low appetite for tickets.

[C.Ronaldo]

anyone here accidentally sell to a scalper via the ticket trader?

[redcard]

In Ontario, the Ticket Speculation Act forbids the purchase or sale of tickets for greater than face value.

If this was the case, then why does TFC allow STH to set their own prices on ticketsnow? Clearly this Ticket Speculation Act is not law which is why it is not enforced by anyone, or any organization.

[Jack]

If this was the case, then why does TFC allow STH to set their own prices on ticketsnow? Clearly this Ticket Speculation Act is not law which is why it is not enforced by anyone, or any organization.
The law was changed in the intervening 9-odd years (:facepalm:) since that post was made to allow shit like TicketsNow.

[Jack]

Anyway, let's lock this one down. If you want to start a new thread to discuss the current laws and the current state of corporate scalping sponsored by TFC, TicketMaster and the government, please feel free to go right ahead.