flamehawk
04-13-2011, 07:29 AM
Its not about portraying men as inherently evil, its about making women inherently victims, which by implication makes men the victimisers.
I dont buy it, at the lower end of the payscale where the majority of us live, the payscale imbalance is imperceptible, and in workplaces such as factories you might find women have a ton more advantages than men do.
In retail or service, do you think male resumes are never discriminated against? Do you think women dont get more flexibility with hours and overtime based on their motherhood?
Why is it when you say domestic violence, the automatic assumption is going to be that of male aggression. That right there is the demonisation of men, and I promise you that most men who are abused by their spouses don't report it, dont have any support network in place anyway, and wouldnt even get support from their friends, cause theyd laugh at them.
My position is, that this demonisation of men has lead to issues facing us to be exacerbated and unaddressed, and if nobody gives a fuck about my problems, why should i give a fuck about theirs?
I used to worship the earth goddess and yearn for a return to the matriarchy back in my early twenties by the way. If we were having this conversation back then, I would be like
"yeah, and men like changed religion and shit so that god was a man, and the line should be traced through the mother cause you know who the mother is and the father could be anyone, and women make more sensible leaders than men who just like to bomb shit....yeah man.....pasas that bong."
Well, we can go back and forth forever with this. From my own understanding of things, the issue is that women are disproportionately at one end - indeed, they almost completely dominated the sort of employment that is completely unrecognized - homemaking.
And I personally won't describe women as 'victims', its a little infantalizing .. 'oh poor babies' .. They're one group getting a really raw end of he deal, as another group incurs benefits. They have resisted against these problems, and I am willing to be an ally.
When you bring up factories, I don't know about the composition for the more technical ones - ie. car manufacturing. It would seem like those are more male dominated .. they also seem to pay relatively more than in other manufacturing jobs (though unfortunately, not going to last with the unions being broken). If you look at garment, and other similar industries, it's women dominated. With the example of retail,sure it's women-dominated .. but not surprisingly, it's also the lowest paid jobs around.
I avoid automatically assuming that men do not space spousal abuse. I agrew ith you completely. And for folsk not to be supportive of these men is ridicules.
In terms of broader movements and services, I still firmly believe that as men, we have a lot more access than others. It's certainly true that some major problems faced by men, whether its mental health (the field I work in) or violence, is ofen unaddressed ... coincidently the result of masculinity (or the values associated with it - where we are supposed to be big and tough and not have emotions) another component of patriarchy. Patriarchy hurts everyone - albeit differently and disproportionately.
and then there is its intersections with race......
I dont buy it, at the lower end of the payscale where the majority of us live, the payscale imbalance is imperceptible, and in workplaces such as factories you might find women have a ton more advantages than men do.
In retail or service, do you think male resumes are never discriminated against? Do you think women dont get more flexibility with hours and overtime based on their motherhood?
Why is it when you say domestic violence, the automatic assumption is going to be that of male aggression. That right there is the demonisation of men, and I promise you that most men who are abused by their spouses don't report it, dont have any support network in place anyway, and wouldnt even get support from their friends, cause theyd laugh at them.
My position is, that this demonisation of men has lead to issues facing us to be exacerbated and unaddressed, and if nobody gives a fuck about my problems, why should i give a fuck about theirs?
I used to worship the earth goddess and yearn for a return to the matriarchy back in my early twenties by the way. If we were having this conversation back then, I would be like
"yeah, and men like changed religion and shit so that god was a man, and the line should be traced through the mother cause you know who the mother is and the father could be anyone, and women make more sensible leaders than men who just like to bomb shit....yeah man.....pasas that bong."
Well, we can go back and forth forever with this. From my own understanding of things, the issue is that women are disproportionately at one end - indeed, they almost completely dominated the sort of employment that is completely unrecognized - homemaking.
And I personally won't describe women as 'victims', its a little infantalizing .. 'oh poor babies' .. They're one group getting a really raw end of he deal, as another group incurs benefits. They have resisted against these problems, and I am willing to be an ally.
When you bring up factories, I don't know about the composition for the more technical ones - ie. car manufacturing. It would seem like those are more male dominated .. they also seem to pay relatively more than in other manufacturing jobs (though unfortunately, not going to last with the unions being broken). If you look at garment, and other similar industries, it's women dominated. With the example of retail,sure it's women-dominated .. but not surprisingly, it's also the lowest paid jobs around.
I avoid automatically assuming that men do not space spousal abuse. I agrew ith you completely. And for folsk not to be supportive of these men is ridicules.
In terms of broader movements and services, I still firmly believe that as men, we have a lot more access than others. It's certainly true that some major problems faced by men, whether its mental health (the field I work in) or violence, is ofen unaddressed ... coincidently the result of masculinity (or the values associated with it - where we are supposed to be big and tough and not have emotions) another component of patriarchy. Patriarchy hurts everyone - albeit differently and disproportionately.
and then there is its intersections with race......