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denime
04-09-2011, 11:31 PM
please carry on here

Dub Narcotic
04-09-2011, 11:32 PM
Only saw second half, a point is a good result, although TFC have historically done well in San Jose for whatever reason.

DangerRed
04-09-2011, 11:32 PM
Any doubts about Stevanovic (save for his injury status, of course) should be dispelled after this performance. Just fantastic.

Great road point for the team against a stronger opponent and hopefully a bit of confidence ahead of LA on Wednesday. Hope they get tons of rest, although LA also might still be tired.

:scarf:

Dkolish3
04-09-2011, 11:33 PM
Good point on the road, positive influence from Borman, Stevanovic, Tchani, Cann and De Guzman. Gordan hit a fluke goal but it doesn't matter we got points.

denime
04-09-2011, 11:35 PM
Any doubts about Stevanovic (save for his injury status, of course) should be dispelled after this performance. Just fantastic.

Great road point for the team against a stronger opponent and hopefully a bit of confidence ahead of LA on Wednesday. Hope they get tons of rest, although LA also might still be tired.

:scarf:

I'm not sure if Stevanovic will be ready in 3 days,let's hope because he was real threat tonight

Oldtimer
04-09-2011, 11:35 PM
The team looked much better with de Guzman. This style really suits him. He was in he right place at the right time so often!

I'll take the point. Well earned, and an exciting match.

Batman
04-09-2011, 11:35 PM
Stevnovic was awesome. Looked incredibly motivated.

I sure hope he only has a minor knock.

Good road point.

denime
04-09-2011, 11:36 PM
good night and see you in the morning with today's news ;)

ag futbol
04-09-2011, 11:36 PM
I only saw from 65th on but i liked what I saw.

JDG-Tchani is a good combo in the midfield.

Maybe just late game fatigue but Harden - Peterson are mistakes waiting to happen. At least the guys had the good sense to take tactical fouls when someone was getting away.

Sweeper
04-09-2011, 11:37 PM
Good point on the road, positive influence from Borman, Stevanovic, Tchani, Cann and De Guzman. Gordan hit a fluke goal but it doesn't matter we got points.

Agree, don't like Peterson but thought he had a good defensive game. Stevanovic and Borman impressive. Good point.

rocker
04-09-2011, 11:37 PM
Another slow start, although they got a goal against the run of play.

But the second half was much better. De Guz had a calming influence I thought.

There were a number of positives today. I thought Stevanovic was good. Zavarise too. Gordon was solid as he's always been (goal + nice header at the end to save the day). Borman worked well with Stevanovic.

Negatives: we need at upgrade on Harden. The players still need time to learn each other's tendencies. Martina and Santos were invisible in the first half. Nana seemed shaky.

But I expected a loss... road game... long flight... team chemistry has been off... better opponent. 1-1 is great.

ryan
04-09-2011, 11:38 PM
I actually thought Harden played a half decent game for a change.

And for the MLS, I was pretty pleased with the match official's job tonight.

spot-on
04-09-2011, 11:39 PM
Classic DeGuzman right there. Sorry but that's where your DP DM needs to make tackle. Instead he gets schooled.

Give me a break. Your anti-deguzman rhetoric knows no bounds. He played an excellent game tonight and if you can't admit that, you're a hater; plain and simple.

TFCwestcan
04-09-2011, 11:41 PM
Decent point, some positives, I have to say that Gordon is a little more than I expected, his touch lets him down at times but he has his moments, right side is still weak, loving the wingers, Stevanovic will only get better he was a handful tonight, Borman is working well with him and also a surprise. I like Stevanovic's passion, great stuff. Plato looked better he does offer some positives. Peterson played really well some great tackles. I agree cann was a rock and got better as the game progressed. we need to get a the ball to Martina as he is dangerous every time he has the ball.

Interesting Winter is not afraid to pull a player if he is not working.

bgnewf
04-09-2011, 11:41 PM
The Good

- An away draw is a good result no matter where and against whom
- Adrian Cann and his stalwart defending late in the game
- Stefanovic is the real deal
- Winter is taking his time with De Guzman
- TFC winning the Corner battle 4-1 was exceptional or a club that averages over its history usually no more than 1.7 per game.
- The same starting XI two games in a row was a positive
- Frei was his solid self
- Alan Gordon is playing well. Smart on and off the ball
- Maicon Santos was poor, and I am being generous


The Bad

- Nana Attakora was poor all evening IMHO. I think he was deservedly subbed at the half for JdG. He was a looky-Loo on the equalizer from Dawkins, and that is not the first time this season.
- Martina only got really involved late. Wat that poor service or poor effort? Not really sure.
- Hopefully Stefanovic does not have a serious knock. He went down a couple of times and was subbed at the 60th minute
- consistently inconsistent MLS officiating continues for a fourth TFC game in a row. At least in this case it did not cost the club points, but only just.

BayernTFC
04-09-2011, 11:42 PM
Any doubts about Stevanovic (save for his injury status, of course) should be dispelled after this performance. Just fantastic.

Stevanovic was active tonight. He was hard working and was excellent with the ball at his feet. His dribbling skills were on display and he linked well with Borman on the left side of the pitch. Most of TFC's attack tonight was created through him, and I felt that his absence was quite noticeable after he left the pitch with an injury. I'd say he was the best performer for TFC tonight.

ManUtd4ever
04-09-2011, 11:42 PM
Best overall performance of the season. San Jose was shut down in the second half in their own barn, and TFC probably deserved to come away with the victory based on the number of quality chances created by both clubs throughout the match.

Finally, after all these years, TFC has a definite presence on both wings. Stevanovic was fantastic tonight, both offensively and defensively. Martina was dangerous as well and should have scored the late winner.

Tchani and DeGuzman were practically flawless defensively as a midfield pairing. Jacob Peterson was also solid defensively and fit in seamlessly at RB in the second half. Attakora had a much stronger outing than last week in the first half, and Cann overcame a sluggish start to have his best game of the season. Borman was execellent tonight, breaking up several plays on the wing.

Other than a lack of finish on a couple of offensive sequences, I honestly couldn't find much fault in tonight's performance. TFC outplayed a very good MLS club in their own park and that is all we can ask for.

It's starting to come together.

TFCRegina
04-09-2011, 11:42 PM
Thoughts:

JDG - well Employed in this system. Looks like he wants to be here unlike the last two years (not to knock him, i wouldn't want to play shitty tactical football either, but he looks like he's happy playing this way, something that wasn't there before)

Borman - 2nd best player for TFC tonight, worked well with the best player on the pitch tonight...well 2nd best going forward...the entire D is summed up below.

Stevanovic - best player on the pitch tonight, both teams included, fantastic movement with and without the ball. Made smart decisions...still a bit greedy but he wants to win, he's taking the league seriously (very important) and he caused a goal.

The back 4 - Porous as hell...2nd and 1st half...2nd was better but man...i feel like i'm gonna have a heart attack.

Peterson - Surprised me. I'm a Peterson hater, so I'm glad he's doing his best to change my mind.

Tchani - not pleased with him to be honest, passing is a bit errant. He's serviceable. Made a few dumb fouls. Hopefully he improves.

Martina - Disappeared for long stretches, but was decent out there when he showed up.

Alan Gordon - Great work ethic, great garbage goal, and we're going to be happy with him this season...a real Dichio type. Works his ass off and is hard as fuck.

Luca Zavarise - not Stevanovic and that makes any objective judgement of him pretty tough. I'll pass on judgement...and yes, I know that's not his full name, but Luca is a badass name.

Maicon - Maicon Who? Needs a better performance next match.

TFCRegina
04-09-2011, 11:43 PM
The Good

- An away draw is a good result no matter where and against whom
- Adrian Cann and his stalwart defending late in the game
- Stefanovic is the real deal
- Winter is taking his time with De Guzman
- TFC winning the Corner battle 4-1 was exceptional or a club that averages over its history usually no more than 1.7 per game.
- The same starting XI two games in a row was a positive
- Frei was his solid self
- Alan Gordon is playing well. Smart on and off the ball


The Bad

- Nana Attakora was poor all evening IMHO. I think he was deservedly subbed at the half for JdG. He was a looky-Loo on the equalizer from Dawkins, and that is not the first time this season.
- Martina only got really involved late. Wat that poor service or poor effort? Not really sure.
- Hopefully Stefanovic does not have a serious knock. He went down a couple of times and was subbed at the 60th minute
- consistently inconsistent MLS officiating continues for a fourth TFC game in a row. At leastin this case it did not cost the club points, but only just.

Completely disagree. Ref did a good job tonight, especially when compared with counterparts in other matches.

jloome
04-09-2011, 11:43 PM
Good effort all the way around. Bobby Convey and Ramiro Corrales are the only two SJ players I'd get excited about, after that performance.

I notice they dropped cronin back to their left flank, our right side all night, pretty much took away passing lanes to Martina. Must've thought the left was much weaker, LOL.

Stevanovic is a level above. Great player. Hope this is the usual MLS "with an option to buy" deal.

Yeah, gotta disagree on the officiating BGnewf, it was the best we've seen this year, very consistent and accurate all night. Also gotta disagree on Nana. FOUR players were beaten on that play by Dawkins, and prior to that Attakora had played OK. As someone pointed out he was likely pulled due to the yellow card.

Huge comeback for Cann this week, monstrous peformance.

crozack
04-09-2011, 11:44 PM
Beckham is going to have issues with Stevanovic's pace come weds ...pending his knock

Kc17
04-09-2011, 11:45 PM
Solid point on the road against a pretty good team.

Borman looked great tonight in comparison to last week, I noticed he shifted to the right for a few minutes, if he can play there full time, I'd put Yourass on the left, with Borman on the right, it would give us great attacking partnerships on the wings.

Stevanovic was excellent, caused havoc every time he was on the ball, I wish Martina got more service early on, but he got some decent chances in the 2nd half.

DeGuzman, Zavarise and Plata all looked good off the bench, DeGuz and Tchani are gonna form a strong duo in the middle once he gets 100% match fit.

Gordon worked hard, and was rewarded with another goal, as long as he puts in the good work, and holds up the ball well, theres no reason he shouldn't start. Another disappointing performance from Santos though, he's looked out of it these last two games.

Overall it was a decent game, they probably had more chances, but we deserved a point, and fought hard for it. This teams the youngest in MLS, and if they can continue to grow and get better, than playoffs may not be out of the question.

GuelphStorm2007
04-09-2011, 11:45 PM
My Man of the Match goes to Adrian Cann. And a solid performance from a guy who gets a lot of flack on these Boards Jacob Peterson.

jloome
04-09-2011, 11:47 PM
Beckham is going to have issues with Stevanovic's pace come weds ...pending his knock

He's playing centrally now.

TFCwestcan
04-09-2011, 11:48 PM
addendum, imagine how good Cronin would look good as a TFC player in winter's side, his passing tonight was really fine. Thanks Preki.

What is with the lack of Gol Tv analyst until games end, Just Luke Wileman...Odd.

Ref was decent tonight.

I agree if Borman can play right the team would be sweet.

adam1001
04-09-2011, 11:48 PM
It really does seem like its starting to come together. I agree that Stevanovic was the best player tonight. I've been pretty critical of jdg but i have to say he played a great game. I really think he's going to fit in well in this system. Now that dero is gone he's going to need to step into that leadership role.

bgnewf
04-09-2011, 11:48 PM
42% possession for a club preaching posession is a concern.

ag futbol
04-09-2011, 11:51 PM
Good effort all the way around. Bobby Convey and Ramiro Corrales are the only two SJ players I'd get excited about, after that performance.

I notice they dropped cronin back to their left flank, our right side all night, pretty much took away passing lanes to Martina. Must've thought the left was much weaker, LOL.

Stevanovic is a level above. Great player. Hope this is the usual MLS "with an option to buy" deal.

Yeah, gotta disagree on the officiating BGnewf, it was the best we've seen this year, very consistent and accurate all night. Also gotta disagree on Nana. FOUR players were beaten on that play by Dawkins, and prior to that Attakora had played OK. As someone pointed out he was likely pulled due to the yellow card.

Huge comeback for Cann this week, monstrous peformance.
agreed, thought it was pretty good compared to what we usually get.

spot-on
04-09-2011, 11:52 PM
42% possession for a club preaching posession is a concern.

They haven't seemed to play a possession focused game since Vancouver, no?

Nuvinho
04-09-2011, 11:52 PM
for the 2nd game in a row, Winter took out Nana because "he wasn't in the game". Nana needs to step up soon, or he'll lose his place. Stop worrying about your contract and worry about your play.

jabbronies
04-09-2011, 11:58 PM
- Martina only got really involved late. Wat that poor service or poor effort? Not really sure.

Last game at BMO Stevanovic had the same problem. Some thought he was way too wide - I think he just wasn't getting the service.

rewatching the game right now and that right side was crowded. I don't think Martina had the space to get the ball - there was just too much congestion out there.

ManUtd4ever
04-09-2011, 11:58 PM
Some people are disappointed in Santos, but in fairness to him, he's playing out of position, and has looked uncomfortable. The only 2 spots in the lineup that appear weak at the moment are AM and RB. I don't think Winter has any other options at AM, so Santos will hopefully adjust in the short term. On the backline, if Borman can switch to the right side I would like to see him start alongside Yourassowsky at LB.

backbeat
04-10-2011, 12:03 AM
42% possession for a club preaching posession is a concern.

no concern here - they looked really good - especially in the 2nd half - was really pleased with how they played - i think this side is beginning to come together and understand the system - a really positive sign....

JonO
04-10-2011, 12:04 AM
I hope Borman continues to impress because I really wanna bust out shosholoza at one of the games.

Not the greatest game, but lots of positives to take away (including a road draw against a tough opponent)

Shep
04-10-2011, 12:07 AM
Cann rocked

twistedchinaman
04-10-2011, 12:13 AM
Good: The offense was actually scary. If I was a Quakes fan I would've been scared when Martina and Gordon attacked over and over.

Bad: The defence. Tighten up! LA will eat us alive with an identical effort like that tomorrow night.

Ugly: The ref. As usual....

adam1001
04-10-2011, 12:14 AM
By the way, what's the deal with Omphroy? Haven't heard much about him since he got signed.

TFCRegina
04-10-2011, 12:14 AM
Good: The offense was actually scary. If I was a Quakes fan I would've been scared when Martina and Gordon attacked over and over.

Bad: The defence. Tighten up! LA will eat us alive with an identical effort like that tomorrow night.

Ugly: The ref. As usual....

Not understanding the people upset with the Ref. I generally agreed with the calls as were made.

rocker
04-10-2011, 12:16 AM
The ref was fine (in MLS terms). He didn't decide the game.

MG42
04-10-2011, 12:17 AM
^yeah I didn't have a problem with the ref tonight, he could have been a lot worse on some of those plays lol

Dreadlocks
04-10-2011, 12:18 AM
I guess we can be content with the point but we could have got all 3 imo.

Really suprised to hear Winter directly say that Nana was NOT in the game and that things got better when he took him out.

Cann started a bit iffy but calmed down to have a great match

Peterson at RB seems like it may work. He's been taught defensive responsibities and when you combine that with his speed, touch, work rate and natural willingness to get forward it equals wing back. He still needs to get better though.

Stevanovic looks good but either a) he needs to take 1 less touch when on the ball or b)his team mates need to get into his head to understand what he's doing so they can be in position to support him better.

Martina got NO service - not sure why.

Maybe getting the arm band is too much for Santos to handle. He was pretty much AWOL tonight.

Plata is a great sub! He's quick and krafty and would be a nightmare to a tired defender.

Gordon looks like he's doing his best Dichio immitation - and doing it well.

Frei!

Borman had a solid match and as many have mentioned, he linked up well with Stefanovic.

Deguzman and Zavarise both looked strong. I predict that both will be in the first 11 next match (Wednesday).

Tchani played a good game but he has to watch the cards.

Overall a great road point! I rate the team 7.5 on the night...all things considered

Oh and the ref gets an 8.

GO REDS

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-10-2011, 12:24 AM
Not bad, not great. Defence still poor, had glimpses of total football going forward. Cann came to life in the second half, let's hope Attakora does the same soon.

The presentation of the game on GOL TV was terrible, the little embedded adds, focusing on Winter and then Yallop for a whole passage of play, the shaky camera. Was it the local feed for the game action?

ag futbol
04-10-2011, 12:26 AM
Meh, I refuse to judge Santos while he's playing a position that is clearly not one he's intended for.

Get us that new AM asap, so we can put him back in his natural spot.

ManUtd4ever
04-10-2011, 12:31 AM
A DP attacking midfielder would be absolutely perfect for this club at the moment.

jabbronies
04-10-2011, 12:32 AM
Meh, I refuse to judge Santos while he's playing a position that is clearly not one he's intended for.

Get us that new AM asap, so we can put him back in his natural spot.

Would you start Maicon over Gordon? If another AM comes in - one of them has to sit.

too bad- they were looking good together

lobo
04-10-2011, 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgnewf http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1271366#post1271366)
42% possession for a club preaching posession is a concern.

no concern here - they looked really good - especially in the 2nd half - was really pleased with how they played - i think this side is beginning to come together and understand the system - a really positive sign.....

the system is possession, building up forward movement, we didn't come together on that tonight, my opinion our passing was poor, lots of 50/50 long balls, lots of weak or blind passes, too many intercepted passes, almost like they abandoned the 'system' tonight, and SJ won the bigger share of balls in midfield ... we took a road point on hard tough play, good work ethic, some professional fouls, and some strong play on the right side that led to our lucky goal

i was hard on santos after his fubar goal attempt last week, and i really wanted him to make up for it tonight, but he was really off

tonight i liked the play of cann, borman, tchani, stev, gordon, and ... peterson (tough to admit that one, but he was steady tonight) ... in general, a better defensive effort relative to previous games

it's definitely positive, and confidence building, but i really don't see any big progression on the possession game from tonight;s performance, it was typical MLS style play

bman27
04-10-2011, 12:37 AM
forget spending the big money on a AM, Give a shout down to our old pal amando Guevarra and let him know we ousted Preki....

ag futbol
04-10-2011, 12:38 AM
Would you start Maicon over Gordon? If another AM comes in - one of them has to sit.

too bad- they were looking good together
I would, all said and done Maicon seems to have the better ability to make the killer pass and hold the ball up with his back to goal.

Nice to see Gordon get a few goals, but he's got the profile and technical ability of the usual MLS backup.

netsan
04-10-2011, 12:39 AM
Terrible defensive breakdown on the SJ goal. Tchani was beaten on the wing and gave up pursuit on the ball carrier Dawkins!!... He watched like a pylon as Dawkins beat 5 TFC players to score on Frei. OMG we need to raise the intensity on defense (See highlight on mlssoccer.com at 3:54)

ManUtd4ever
04-10-2011, 12:41 AM
Would you start Maicon over Gordon? If another AM comes in - one of them has to sit.

too bad- they were looking good together

It would be a great problem to have, that's for sure. Both players are adept at holding up the ball and distributing, Santos is a much stronger finisher with his feet, and Gordon is better with the old noggin.

boozilla
04-10-2011, 12:50 AM
forget spending the big money on a AM, Give a shout down to our old pal amando Guevarra and let him know we ousted Preki....
^ like

2mil4dero+santo
04-10-2011, 12:59 AM
addendum, imagine how good Cronin would look good as a TFC player in winter's side, his passing tonight was really fine. Thanks Preki.

What is with the lack of Gol Tv analyst until games end, Just Luke Wileman...Odd.

Ref was decent tonight.

I agree if Borman can play right the team would be sweet.

lol yes his pass to Gordon for our goal was fantastic...

2mil4dero+santo
04-10-2011, 01:00 AM
forget spending the big money on a AM, Give a shout down to our old pal amando Guevarra and let him know we ousted Preki....

yes please...

torontocelt
04-10-2011, 01:58 AM
Happy to get a point away but then I thought about it and we are only 5 points from 12 and that is not good enough especially when we have played weaker opposition overall. Still a draw is better than a loss and I would have taken that before the game.

Cashcleaner
04-10-2011, 02:14 AM
Postives:

I think tonight we got a good example of what exactly Stevonovic can do on the pitch. Borman and him worked particularly well together. Frei had some nice moves, as well. Plata looks promising - lot's of energy, and I thought for sure he'd at least be winded when he slide into those adverts. Frei looked good out there, but I've seen better distribution from him.

Negatives:

So I guess it was opposite day when Winter made his big remark about TFC playing a "possession-based" system. Or something. I don't know what to think about him now if he is claiming to be developing a particular set of tactics and drills with a focus on possession and having the opposing team run circles around us with the ball at their feet. Also, can we please, please, PLEASE do something about the back four?

All said, I was actually thinking we'd be able to pick up the three points tonight, but after another fairly slow, it became apparent we'd be playing a more reactionary game.

Mark TFC
04-10-2011, 02:24 AM
A bit of a slow start to the game, but the pace changed once we got the bsll in the net.

The second half was much better. More confident play, more pushing towards the net.

I thought Stevanovic was great, and he and Borman had a great connection. Tchani also had a good showing, even got a nice shot on goal.

Good point on the road.

Mark TFC
04-10-2011, 02:27 AM
Martina was also able to use a little bit more of his technical ability today, which is always welcome, and he and Plata both had great bursts of speed as always.

UltraSuperMegaMo
04-10-2011, 03:08 AM
^ I get the impression that Matina is a little on the slow side, using his skill on the ball rather than speed to beat the last man.

69Chevy396
04-10-2011, 07:11 AM
Positives:
Cann gave the ball away in the first half, got better in the second after watching his buddy Attakora get subbed: Winter could have subbed either one after their first half display.
Stevanovic: Best player on the team, he owned the left side of the pitch, and as he becomes more familiar with MLS opposition will become stellar in that role: if he stays healthy.
Borman: Surprisingly good.
Martina: His two near misses could easily have been goals on other nights, and he would be MOM.
Gordon: Sorry guys, he is already better than Dichio.
Frei: Becoming better every game.
Harden: did not play bad so that is a bonus.

Negatives:
JDG: worst DP in MLS continues to get paid tons of money for striving to be an average MLS defensive mid. He made several decent tackles, but so do most of his MLS counterparts. If we compare him to bums like Harmse, sure he is a lot better, but when compared to the top MLS mids, he is barely average. Even Cronin can be compared favorably with JDG. Question: He is past his prime, what more can we expect from him?
Attakora: Either mentally or physically bonkers right now
Tchaini: spelling? With his talent he should be more of a team leader.
Santos: I like this new manager, because I was thinking all first half how out of it Santos was, and bingo, he is subbed. Has he overstayed his welcome already? He has played at various midfield positions all through his career, he needs to play with more finesse and pace.

Oldtimer
04-10-2011, 07:40 AM
Gordon: Sorry guys, he is already better than Dichio.ummm.... no


JDG: worst DP in MLS continues to get paid tons of money for striving to be an average MLS defensive mid.I know you're a "hater," but c'mon. JDG had a very good game, his positioning and distribution were excellent. In a direct system he flounders, but this system fits him like a glove.


42% possession for a club preaching posession is a concern.


About the possession statistic that bgnewf brought up: you guys realize that SJ is a possession based team, just like TFC, and they've been together more than 1 week! Even in Serie A, with 2 possession-based teams playing each other, it's not unusual to see one side having 40% and the other 60% possession.

LOL, it's not an indicator that Winter has given up a possession-based style, although he has wisely modified it somewhat to counter the threat of a team with a direct style (like Vancouver) merely pushing forward to shut us down. Allowing the occasional long-ball keeps the other side "honest."

Blowing Bubbles
04-10-2011, 08:18 AM
nice road point for us.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-10-2011, 08:28 AM
second half was fantastic, cann had a great game, as did JDG and Stevanovic.
Sadly Martina and Maicon seemed to bit a bit invisible at times, cant really fault Maicon as thats not his natural position, as for Martina, well they werent really working down that wing so much. its great to see that we're getting better and better with every game!

Ossington Mental Youth
04-10-2011, 08:29 AM
also im glad to see Borman and Stevanovic as a team proved me wrong this week and that it was just growing pains

London
04-10-2011, 08:32 AM
i still am shocked at how bad the d was on the goal,

TFCwestcan
04-10-2011, 08:39 AM
lol yes his pass to Gordon for our goal was fantastic...

(Regarding Cronin) Ha ha true!

TFCwestcan
04-10-2011, 08:41 AM
second half was fantastic, cann had a great game, as did JDG and Stevanovic.
Sadly Martina and Maicon seemed to bit a bit invisible at times, cant really fault Maicon as thats not his natural position, as for Martina, well they werent really working down that wing so much. its great to see that we're getting better and better with every game!

Noticed that in the 2nd half Borman and Stev started giving Martina diagonal balls which really spread the play nicely.

69Chevy396
04-10-2011, 09:00 AM
ummm.... no

I know you're a "hater," but c'mon. JDG had a very good game, his positioning and distribution were excellent. In a direct system he flounders, but this system fits him like a glove.




About the possession statistic that bgnewf brought up: you guys realize that SJ is a possession based team, just like TFC, and they've been together more than 1 week! Even in Serie A, with 2 possession-based teams playing each other, it's not unusual to see one side having 40% and the other 60% possession.

LOL, it's not an indicator that Winter has given up a possession-based style, although he has wisely modified it somewhat to counter the threat of a team with a direct style (like Vancouver) merely pushing forward to shut us down. Allowing the occasional long-ball keeps the other side "honest."

I do not hate JDG, not at all. I like him very much, but I am not so naive as to hold any great expectation from him, he is not going to win games for this team. Nobody expects him to score, he never has. But he has virtually NIL offense in his game. MLS has the distinction of being one of the lowest scoring pro soccer leagues, bringing guys like him here does not make any sense whatsoever. I like him, as part of a team, but when you only have one or two DPs, and in a year where you trade away your best offensive player because you are too cheap to pay him DP dollars, how can you justify keeping JDG around?

His distribution was very good, and yes, he does play better in this style of soccer. But all this does is bring him to average in mls, was his distribution better than cronin's? If yes, not by much, not by $3million dollars

rocker
04-10-2011, 09:06 AM
I don't think JDG's salary has anything to do with whether TFC will sign another DP. They did, afterall, sign Mista to a million dollar DP contract last year.

I don't see any proof that their unwillingness to give De Ro DP money was because they are paying JDG 1.7 million and don't want to spend any more.

But we'll probably have to wait until the midseason transfer window to see. Mariner has mentioned the fact that many more good players come available after the Euro season ends.

Detroit_TFC
04-10-2011, 09:14 AM
Historically we've had terrible trouble on the road (SJ the exception, the narrow field must help keep us compact). We've got 3 home games to refine things. Let's see what we can do in Seattle, but if things keep coming together like they have, I'm liking our chances to grab some road points.

brad
04-10-2011, 09:16 AM
for the 2nd game in a row, Winter took out Nana because "he wasn't in the game". Nana needs to step up soon, or he'll lose his place. Stop worrying about your contract and worry about your play.

May have nothing to do with his contract. He may just not be good enough for Winter.

Razcle
04-10-2011, 09:20 AM
Dont know if anyone has commented on this, but we were saved by Johnsons inability to have a good first touch. He was horrendous tonight for SJ and could have been dangerous had he been a more skillful player.

That said it was an exciting AWAY game to watch, which we have not said too often for TFC in their short history. This is a game we could have taken and we seemed to be in the the full 90.

brad
04-10-2011, 09:21 AM
Negatives:
JDG: worst DP in MLS continues to get paid tons of money for striving to be an average MLS defensive mid. He made several decent tackles, but so do most of his MLS counterparts.

Dawkins was running the show in the first half, JDG took him out of the game in the second. DM is far more than tackling...

Also, Martina was completely uninvolved in the first half San Jose were set up to keep him quite. JDG was able to get him involved almost immediately.

brad
04-10-2011, 09:24 AM
Dont know if anyone has commented on this, but we were saved by Johnsons inability to have a good first touch. He was horrendous tonight for SJ and could have been dangerous had he been a more skillful player.

That said it was an exciting AWAY game to watch, which we have not said too often for TFC in their short history. This is a game we could have taken and we seemed to be in the the full 90.

Too often than not, TFC away games are dead an buried within the first 20 minutes. Most of the time, they are painful at best to watch.

This was refreshing - very refreshing.

brad
04-10-2011, 09:28 AM
Frei - solid
Cann - amazing defensively in the second half. Distribution poor though.
Attakora - out of it defensively and offensively.
Harden - how does he get paid to play football?
Peterson - looked better when getting moved to the back. Can deliver a good ball in from a dead ball situation
JDG - steadied things, took Dawkins (who was pulling the strings in the first half) out of the match. Able to get Martina involved.
Martina - invisible in the first half, partially due to the focus on getting the ball to Stevanovic, partially due to SJ having him marked as the danger man. Came into a bit in the second half
Stevanovic - fantastic - played with his head up. This guy is technically great, and thinking two steps ahead (unlike most of the team)
Tchani - raw - but looks promising. Some good distribution to hit the wide players on the run
Borman - linked good with Steva

Ossington Mental Youth
04-10-2011, 09:32 AM
Too often than not, TFC away games are dead an buried within the first 20 minutes. Most of the time, they are painful at best to watch.

This was refreshing - very refreshing.

YES
also refreshing: Having dangerous wingers on both sides of the pitch

Pachuco
04-10-2011, 09:53 AM
ummm.... no

I know you're a "hater," but c'mon. JDG had a very good game, his positioning and distribution were excellent. In a direct system he flounders, but this system fits him like a glove.




About the possession statistic that bgnewf brought up: you guys realize that SJ is a possession based team, just like TFC, and they've been together more than 1 week! Even in Serie A, with 2 possession-based teams playing each other, it's not unusual to see one side having 40% and the other 60% possession.

LOL, it's not an indicator that Winter has given up a possession-based style, although he has wisely modified it somewhat to counter the threat of a team with a direct style (like Vancouver) merely pushing forward to shut us down. Allowing the occasional long-ball keeps the other side "honest."

Come on OldTimer. Tchani was miles ahead of JDG in my opinion, he was hands down the better DM yesterday. JDG was an average DM yesterday. He got absolutely schooled by Convey on one play but then made it up with a great defensive play 5 mins later. The point is, I really don't see how you can say he had a VERY good game. That's an exageration.

Pachuco
04-10-2011, 09:56 AM
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet. Did anyone notice the change in tactics in yesterday's game? right from the beginning of the game our defenders were booting the ball up to Gordon as opposed to playing it out of the park. It was actually quite obvious that they were doing something drastic from the previous games. Is this Winter realizing who his defenders are today? Or do you think guys like Cann, Nana and Frei are taking it upon themselves to do so? In the second half we started playing the ball out with short passes, but I'm telling you, something was very different about that first half.

Last thing, Stevanovic was ridicolous good last night. Liking my chops at watching him do that again.

Jack
04-10-2011, 10:02 AM
JDG had a solid outing for a guy coming back from injury. He had a couple of lapses, but his awareness and his timely intervention on numerous plays made up for that. He also shut down SJs most dangerous player completely. He's still getting his feet on the ground with the system and his teammates and yet he was still a huge factor in shoring up our defensive play in the second half. He's also really good at winning and keeping the ball and turning it forward. I don't know what more you want from a DP than to come in at half for his second 45 minutes of the season and have that much impact on the game.

He was the only sub at halftime and his presence was immediately noticeable.

His impact will only grow as he gets more game time and gets into rhythm with his teammates and our system.

Jack
04-10-2011, 10:05 AM
@Pachuco - I think, again, that JDG's presence had something to do with our improved buildup in the second half.

los sonadores
04-10-2011, 10:06 AM
I thought JDG changed the play drastically. We were a different and much better team with him. Tchani looked better playing with him as well.

Stevanovic looked like he should be back in Serie A/B. Let's hope he can keep up something like that dominance on the left. I imagine he'll see some serious attention from LAG on Wednesday if he's fit enough to play.

Whoop
04-10-2011, 10:07 AM
From his teammate.



“I think that [de Guzman] changed the game,” Gordon said. “His ability to control the midfield and drive possession was vital.”
As a holding midfielder, de Guzman’s skills are not always appreciated by the casual fan. Additionally, Gordon said, de Guzman’s big contract clouds people’s perception of him.
“When guys see the big money, they tend to want the player to score a lot of goals and to be creative offensively,” Gordon said. “That’s not the role of a holding midfielder, but what he does out there is so important.”

Jack
04-10-2011, 10:10 AM
Players always appreciate what DMs do more than most fans.

Davenport
04-10-2011, 10:26 AM
In many peoples eyes JDG will never be good enough because he's on crazy money for his ability...thanks Johnston.
A player who is paid that money is expected to win or save games and he will never do that.
He plays a role that many others could do at a fraction of the cost thus the scrutiny and hand wringing every time his name is mentioned.
He hasn't got much pace, can't really shoot, an OK passer, tackles OK. Not great in the air. Average really.
Tcahni looks a much better prospect.
Anyone else get the feeling the defence is on a tight-rope and could fall off any minute ? It's always panic stations as there's no-one there with any class.

ag futbol
04-10-2011, 10:27 AM
Yeah, all said and done it was a pretty good JDG performance.

I think people have to get beyond a DM simply being a guy who runs around making crunching tackles. We have Tchani to do that, JDG does not need to provide the same attribute in a 4-3-3.

JDG did several things well, including win the ball on several occasions and keep it, slow down the SJ attack, bring help when necessary to defend, and cover for defensive mistakes of teammates.

It was Gilberto Silva "Invisible Wall" kind of stuff.

ManUtd4ever
04-10-2011, 10:27 AM
Alan Gordon has been here for 3 weeks and he's the first TFC player to ever praise JDG publicly and lend insight to the intagibles that he brings on the pitch as a DM. Gordon is a character guy in my opinion.

swan
04-10-2011, 10:28 AM
well we are 3rd in the standings and still above columbus so thats good..

Corpand
04-10-2011, 10:35 AM
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Toronto+FC+v+San+Jose+Earthquakes+dgLRz-ep4i5l.jpg

LOVED Alen's focus during the game, I feel he has reached a league which will allow him to show what he can do. Neat dribble skills and pace will make him very effective on the left. As long as he stays injury-free and doesnt get tempermental if not getting passes or being subbed off.

Oh, and...
http://www3.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Toronto+FC+v+San+Jose+Earthquakes+QAO1GzoL-Ysl.jpg

...BOSS

rocktml
04-10-2011, 10:44 AM
Couple of notes.....

Why Winter does not start Zavarise is beyond me. This kid looks great everytime he is out on the field. I thought Stevanović (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Alen_Stevanovi%C4%87) and Borman played well on the wing.

And Santos omg get your head out of your ass. Just horrible these last two games. Seems like he freezes everytime he gets the ball. Also seems like he looks down at the ball and feet wayy too much.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-10-2011, 10:53 AM
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet. Did anyone notice the change in tactics in yesterday's game? right from the beginning of the game our defenders were booting the ball up to Gordon as opposed to playing it out of the park. It was actually quite obvious that they were doing something drastic from the previous games. Is this Winter realizing who his defenders are today? Or do you think guys like Cann, Nana and Frei are taking it upon themselves to do so? In the second half we started playing the ball out with short passes, but I'm telling you, something was very different about that first half.


yeah i did see that too, i wonder if its just old habits dying hard?
obviously Winter had a go (its been reported somewhere, cant remember) at the half and you could see it change almost immediately.

Ossington Mental Youth
04-10-2011, 10:55 AM
kinda feel like Santos is adjusting to playing out of position, curious to see how he adapts as well as whether it lasts

Whoop
04-10-2011, 10:57 AM
Stevanovic just has to get rid of the neon orange boots. LOL

rocker
04-10-2011, 10:58 AM
Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet. Did anyone notice the change in tactics in yesterday's game? right from the beginning of the game our defenders were booting the ball up to Gordon as opposed to playing it out of the park. It was actually quite obvious that they were doing something drastic from the previous games. Is this Winter realizing who his defenders are today? Or do you think guys like Cann, Nana and Frei are taking it upon themselves to do so? In the second half we started playing the ball out with short passes, but I'm telling you, something was very different about that first half.

Last thing, Stevanovic was ridicolous good last night. Liking my chops at watching him do that again.

Yes, I agree, I'm thinking Winter is trying something deliberately. I've seen the team play almost 100% out of the back in Vancouver (almost no long balls the whole game) and then play the first half against San Jose with almost completely long balls. But then in the second half, with JDG on, it shifted again as you say, to an almost complete ground game. I don't think that just happens naturally.

He must be instructing them to do this. It could be a learning moment ("let's try the extreme one way or the other to see how we would play together in this way") or it could be strategy to stay unpredictable. I wonder how an opposing coach can strategize against TFC, if they can eventually play either ground game or long ball effectively.

Jack
04-10-2011, 11:01 AM
In many peoples eyes JDG will never be good enough because he's on crazy money for his ability...thanks Johnston.
A player who is paid that money is expected to win or save games and he will never do that.
He plays a role that many others could do at a fraction of the cost thus the scrutiny and hand wringing every time his name is mentioned.
He hasn't got much pace, can't really shoot, an OK passer, tackles OK. Not great in the air. Average really.
Tcahni looks a much better prospect.
Anyone else get the feeling the defence is on a tight-rope and could fall off any minute ? It's always panic stations as there's no-one there with any class.

I disagree that many others could do what JDG does. There is a reason he was MVP of a top flight team playing that position and was considered amongst the top DMs in the Spanish league before falling out of favour with his manager.

People think you can throw any scrub in that position who can tackle and play hard, but in reality, a good DM is the heartbeat of any good team. The importance of the position is not to be underestimated.

I don't think it's a coincidence that we looked like a much better team with him on the pitch, because we are.

There's a reason champions always have a good player there. It's not themost flashy, but it takes a football mind and an awareness that few other positions on the pitch do.

As for people saying he can't pass, that's just plain not true. I saw several solid first passes from him yesterday.

levyashin
04-10-2011, 11:03 AM
Where have all these positive waves come from.Written off ,slagged off,BUT TFC are 3rd in the table looking quite respectable.Adjustments still have to be made but an admiral result in S.J.wednesday the team should read
--frei--
--borman------williams--------cann-------yourofski
deguzman------tchani-----stephanovic
--martina-------gordon-----santos
borman would look good helping out martina,gordon is a nice addition because this league thrives on the DICHIO c/f model.stephanovic behind santos would bring more out of both of them.williams and cann in the middle will be how the team moves forward,sorry attacora,you will take a step back to go forward.The next 3 home games are huge,all winable could see tfc on or near the top.

Pachuco
04-10-2011, 11:15 AM
@Pachuco - I think, again, that JDG's presence had something to do with our improved buildup in the second half.

I'm 34 mins into the second half again (cause it's a rainy sunday and I have nothing better to do). Our buildup for the most part has consisted of playing the ball through the left wing, and even with Stevanovic off now Borman is still making some great runs and passes down that wing.

JDG has had some really nice touches along with Tchani in the middle. Now I will admit there were a couple of defensive plays from JDG that I don't think I saw last night. Defensively he's running his ass off and doing lots of covering along with Tchani. Watching them both closely I do see that they are complementing each other well. Our shape is definately better defensively then it has been all season and JDG has to be credited with some of that.

I actually said last week even more then the system, I think Tchani will be the best thing that happens to JDG. I'd be shocked if they don't develop a great partnership in the middle.

After watching this half again I'll admit, his presence really did have a bigger impact on the team then I thought at first glance.

Pachuco
04-10-2011, 11:23 AM
Another thing I'll say is Cann REALLY stepped it up a notch in the second half. He's even making good passes....hehe.

Oldtimer I apologize. I'm in the 89th minute now and JDG really did have very good game.

Jack
04-10-2011, 11:30 AM
I love watching DMs, I admit. I will often focus on them in games because you so often can trace plays back to something they've done.

Davenport
04-10-2011, 11:34 AM
I disagree that many others could do what JDG does. There is a reason he was MVP of a top flight team playing that position and was considered amongst the top DMs in the Spanish league before falling out of favour with his manager.

People think you can throw any scrub in that position who can tackle and play hard, but in reality, a good DM is the heartbeat of any good team. The importance of the position is not to be underestimated.

I don't think it's a coincidence that we looked like a much better team with him on the pitch, because we are.

There's a reason champions always have a good player there. It's not themost flashy, but it takes a football mind and an awareness that few other positions on the pitch do.

As for people saying he can't pass, that's just plain not true. I saw several solid first passes from him yesterday.

Can't disgree with what you say, but he's 30, his best years are way behind him and sorry, but he's just an average player doing what any good professional defensive midfield player can do.
No other team in Europe jumped at the chance to sign him did they ?
The big problem is that he's getting crazy money that could have been spent on a match winner, so his every move is rightly scrutinised.

ExiledRed
04-10-2011, 11:36 AM
Gordon: Sorry guys, he is already better than Dichio.

Based on what, a head in from a set piece and a tap in from a botched defender's play?

Gordon plays a great game and I like him, but in four games he hasnt matched Dichio's finish, one touch passing, leadership and disruptive positioning.

When he starts passing the ball into the net on a regular basis and scoring stunners when you least expect them, he might be 'as good as' but he has to make a lot more impact, and show some genuine brilliance to be better.

Jack
04-10-2011, 11:40 AM
Can't disgree with what you say, but he's 30, his best years are way behind him and sorry, but he's just an average player doing what any good professional defensive midfield player can do.
No other team in Europe jumped at the chance to sign him did they ?
The big problem is that he's getting crazy money that could have been spent on a match winner, so his every move is rightly scrutinised.

I will reserve judgement on this until a few more games along, but I would contend that a player in this position can be a match-winner, just not in the same way as a striker, for example.

I really think we've only seen a fraction of the real JDG so far. Yes he's 30, but that isn't so old anymore in football with the conditioning and nutrition of the players. I'm not going to pronounce him a success as DP yet, but I'm also not ready to say he's a failure. This season will tell the final story, I think.

Jack
04-10-2011, 11:42 AM
I'dlike to add that it's refreshing to have some intelligent discussions in a post-match thread instead of reading rants and doomsday posts.

flatpicker
04-10-2011, 11:46 AM
I'dlike to add that it's refreshing to have some intelligent discussions in a post-match thread instead of reading rants and doomsday posts.


DOOMED!

http://lehmann.typepad.com/in_lehmanns_terms/images/scooby_doo_1.jpg

boban
04-10-2011, 11:49 AM
I'dlike to add that it's refreshing to have some intelligent discussions in a post-match thread instead of reading rants and doomsday posts.
Team sucks. Couldn't hold onto a lead and defenders were slow as molasses last night. Stefanovic isn't all that. What was Winter thinking?
We could have used Dero last night if TFC just signed him and didn't fuck around with players heads.
Philly is tops in the league, and only in year 2, vancouver is solid, yet we still stink in year 5. Toronto will never win anything. ;)

Jack
04-10-2011, 11:52 AM
I'd like to see what Pablo Vitti could do in the AM spot in this system.

Jack
04-10-2011, 11:53 AM
Team sucks. Couldn't hold onto a lead and defenders were slow as molasses last night. Stefanovic isn't all that. What was Winter thinking?
We could have used Dero last night if TFC just signed him and didn't fuck around with players heads.
Philly is tops in the league, and only in year 2, vancouver is solid, yet we still stink in year 5. Toronto will never win anything. ;)

That's the boban I know!

Serb_Star
04-10-2011, 11:56 AM
Sucks that Stevanovic will be back in Europe at the end of the season, oh well at least we'll be able to say that he once played for TFC :D

Pachuco
04-10-2011, 12:00 PM
I'd like to see what Pablo Vitti could do in the AM spot in this system.

If there is a position right now where we have a problem it's the AM. A true #10 would make this team so much better going forward. Martina and Stevanovic look like the best wingers we've ever had but we really lack vision in the middle. Maicon has the vision, he just seems to be totally out of it since they've moved him into that role.

Someone who I would have loved to see with this combination even more then Vitti though is Guevara. For my money that's where I'd be looking in the summer. Spend the big bucks on a solid #10 an we could have ourselves a solid attacking team. This #10 will also naturally become our set piece specialist which I think we need as well.

CretanBull
04-10-2011, 12:05 PM
I disagree that many others could do what JDG does. There is a reason he was MVP of a top flight team playing that position and was considered amongst the top DMs in the Spanish league before falling out of favour with his manager.

People think you can throw any scrub in that position who can tackle and play hard, but in reality, a good DM is the heartbeat of any good team. The importance of the position is not to be underestimated.

I don't think it's a coincidence that we looked like a much better team with him on the pitch, because we are.

There's a reason champions always have a good player there. It's not themost flashy, but it takes a football mind and an awareness that few other positions on the pitch do.

As for people saying he can't pass, that's just plain not true. I saw several solid first passes from him yesterday.


We looked bad and scrambled a lot in the 1st half, and played with way more poise in the 2nd half. JDG has to get credit for a large part of that, he was a calming influence - and solid in the middle that allowed the game to go out to the wings.

DMs rarely get the love - Carl Robinson wasn't ever fully appreciated here (by some anyway).

JDG's passing is great. Sometimes he makes mistakes from trying to do too much, but sometimes he's doing exactly what he should be doing but our off the ball movement isn't what it should be. It's a balancing act, he needs to adjust to MLS play but his teammates also have to adjust to him...we need to play to our strengths, and JDG is one of our strengths.

Pookie
04-10-2011, 12:07 PM
JDG is an interesting asset this team has.

He's got 2 years left on his contract, this one and the following year. He's getting older at 30 and has had some major surgery.

At some point, you might think about moving a player like this to get some return.

Except, he's been blackballed in Europe and his enormous salary limit the number of teams he could be moved to.

I think the good news for all of is that his circumstances mean that he will play out his contract here. Given everything that he has said in the offseason regarding his optimism about Winter's system and the fact he will be playing for his next contract, I think he is finally committed to this team.

We should finally start to realize the real talent he has.

Sally Mack
04-10-2011, 12:07 PM
Stevanovic was impressive but just needs to play with his head up a bit more. In the second half he stopped coming back into our own end of the pitch to retrieve the ball, something I'm sure winter directed him on. It was frustrating to see one of our attacking wingers with the ball near our own 18yd box in the first half.

IMO cann was terrible moving the ball. I think its more mental for him right now.

ManUtd4ever
04-10-2011, 12:17 PM
I disagree that many others could do what JDG does. There is a reason he was MVP of a top flight team playing that position and was considered amongst the top DMs in the Spanish league before falling out of favour with his manager.

People think you can throw any scrub in that position who can tackle and play hard, but in reality, a good DM is the heartbeat of any good team. The importance of the position is not to be underestimated.

I don't think it's a coincidence that we looked like a much better team with him on the pitch, because we are.

There's a reason champions always have a good player there. It's not themost flashy, but it takes a football mind and an awareness that few other positions on the pitch do.

As for people saying he can't pass, that's just plain not true. I saw several solid first passes from him yesterday.

Bang on.

mightydrm
04-10-2011, 12:39 PM
The game fun to watch - you can see the potential, there is reason to believe. But the Galaxy will destroy our defense if it keeps being this disorganized. Hopefully JDG will start, it's a different team when he is on the pitch.

dupont
04-10-2011, 12:45 PM
I was happy with the game overall. I definitely think that our defenders are the weak link right now. The midfield is looking really good and we have some pretty dangerous options up front.
I like Stevanovic and think he has a massive amount of skill but I wish he would play slightly less selfishly and look for the pass a bit more. I say slightly because I think it's important that he stays at least a bit selfish so that he will create things that other players simply can't.

I loved DeGuzman yesterday. He looked really good and that is very encouraging seeing that he is coming back from injury.

swan
04-10-2011, 12:51 PM
don't have to wait a week for the next game wed will be here soon.. interested to see how they do against a "big club"...

Dkolish3
04-10-2011, 12:53 PM
Is there an option to buy on Stevanovic's contract?

DangerRed
04-10-2011, 12:59 PM
Is there an option to buy on Stevanovic's contract?

An option to purchase tends to be a staple of MLS loan deals, so it's likely. I would be thrilled to hear one day that we've bought him, as his skill level is head and shoulders above anything else we've got on the team right now.

If he continues to treat games seriously like he did last night, he will be an enormous asset to the club.

ManUtd4ever
04-10-2011, 01:00 PM
MLS loan deals typically include a provision that allows a club option to purchase the rights of the player. In Stevanovic's case, with Inter Milan and Torino as the co-owners of his rights, I would assume that acquiring Stevanovic would cost TFC a noteable transfer fee if the option exists.

AL-MO
04-10-2011, 01:05 PM
Stevnovic was awesome. Looked incredibly motivated.

I sure hope he only has a minor knock.

Good road point.

He did look great and his attitude was the opposite of the previous week where he looked VERY frustrated.

AL-MO
04-10-2011, 01:25 PM
Game in 6 - WTF?!

I wanted to see a replay of when Martina went down in the box to see if the referee made the right call or not and they don't even include it.

:hulk:

Jack
04-10-2011, 01:27 PM
If there is a position right now where we have a problem it's the AM. A true #10 would make this team so much better going forward. Martina and Stevanovic look like the best wingers we've ever had but we really lack vision in the middle. Maicon has the vision, he just seems to be totally out of it since they've moved him into that role.

Someone who I would have loved to see with this combination even more then Vitti though is Guevara. For my money that's where I'd be looking in the summer. Spend the big bucks on a solid #10 an we could have ourselves a solid attacking team. This #10 will also naturally become our set piece specialist which I think we need as well.

Guevara would be perfect there because, in this system, that position still has defensive responsibilities and Amado, when he wanted to, was a very solid ball winner. He would be perfect, but he's old and probably happy playing at home. Maicon has skill, but lacks the defensive side and his vision isn't nearly as good as Amado's.

A younger version of Guevara would be nice :)

Edit: I'll add that I don't think DeRo was an ideal fit there either. He and Santos are more like deep-lying forwards than attacking mids.

backbeat
04-10-2011, 01:33 PM
great 2nd had and that was credit to JDG coming in. i also liked seeing Peterson at RB that surprised me but i think it was a good move - if he could build defensively that might be a really interesting spot for him to help the team push forward. Borman and Stevanovic were awesome - would love to see Vitti and/or Guevara in this system - i always liked Vitti and his skills would shine with Stev and Martina around - what's Guevara doing now??

TFCRegina
04-10-2011, 01:38 PM
great 2nd had and that was credit to JDG coming in. i also liked seeing Peterson at RB that surprised me but i think it was a good move - if he could build defensively that might be a really interesting spot for him to help the team push forward. Borman and Stevanovic were awesome - would love to see Vitti and/or Guevara in this system - i always liked Vitti and his skills would shine with Stev and Martina around - what's Guevara doing now??

I would like to see neither Vitti nor Guevara in this system. Guevara is too old and Vitti did1n't cut it here. Things didn't work out for him. He's having success in Ecuador but he was shit in MLS. And the pair of them in a 600k cap hit, something we can ill afford because we're [stupidly] paying big chunks of the salaries of De Ro and Barrett.

Jack
04-10-2011, 01:42 PM
I would like to see neither Vitti nor Guevara in this system. Guevara is too old and Vitti did1n't cut it here. Things didn't work out for him. He's having success in Ecuador but he was shit in MLS. And the pair of them in a 600k cap hit, something we can ill afford because we're [stupidly] paying big chunks of the salaries of De Ro and Barrett.

Vitti is in Peru, I believe, and he cut it just fine, in a horrendous system with an inexperienced coach and a disorganized team. Guevara still can play. I think either ofthem would slot in very well there, but especially Amado, old or not.

backbeat
04-10-2011, 01:44 PM
I would like to see neither Vitti nor Guevara in this system. Guevara is too old and Vitti did1n't cut it here. Things didn't work out for him. He's having success in Ecuador but he was shit in MLS. And the pair of them in a 600k cap hit, something we can ill afford because we're [stupidly] paying big chunks of the salaries of De Ro and Barrett.

i always liked Vitti but there is no way he would get 300K now or if he had been renewed before - that was the loan amount - i'd think he'd be in the 150K range and well worth it - he would absolutely fit in this system, imo.

Kc17
04-10-2011, 01:55 PM
To those who are trying to discredit JDG's skill, and effects on a game. Just go back and look at the games vs Vancouver, and Portland. Look at how much open space those teams had to operate, without players like JDG and Tchani shutting down their attacks. Those two compliment our defense perfectly.

Now, I'm not happy with Winter's choice of always playing Harden. If you went with Borman on the right, Yourassowsky on the left, and Cann/Nana in the middle. I think its a very solid back four, and the two DM's would allow Yourassowsky and Borman to have a free reign attacking wise.

I'd give Santos one more game in his new role. I personally feel like its too deep, and he's just being wasted, but maybe he'll turn it around. It would be criminal to take Gordon out of the starting lineup just to try and get Santos going though, Gordon is a workhorse, he puts pressure on the defense when he doesn't have the ball, he moves very good off the ball, he's a threat in the air. Just a perfect CF to have with Martina and Stevanovic.

By the way, was anyone else very impressed with Zavarise and Plata? I wish we could find a way to incorporate those two more often.

Jack
04-10-2011, 01:59 PM
I'm sure we'll se more than enough of Zavarise and Plata. It's a long season and we'll have CONCACAF matches, some international weeks and injuries.

reggie
04-10-2011, 02:13 PM
i know we have a #10...but we really need a #10,santos does not cut it in that postion.
whats going on with soolsma,i think he is not even on the bench.
and he counts has a import.kind of a waste.

boban
04-10-2011, 02:14 PM
It's a long season and we'll have CONCACAF matches, ...
You sound like MLSE.

Jack
04-10-2011, 02:53 PM
You sound like MLSE.

If MLSE says that, over the course of a season with league and cup matches, we will likely see our bench players, then yes, I guess I do.

I'm not sure what your point is, but yeah.

los sonadores
04-10-2011, 03:03 PM
It was usually a pleasure to watch Guevera play here and he might even thrive under the current more disciplined, tactical system. But I though he did look just past it agewise in his WC appearances.

I'm a big fan of Gordon but he's not at Dichio's level, even at the end of Dichio's career. Dichio, for all his slowness and bruiser rep, had loads of technique and field vision. Gordon seems to be getting better, but I can't see him playing 150 games in the Premiership, having a cup of tea in Serie A and being the subject of reasonable large transfer fee as Dichio was once in England.

boban
04-10-2011, 03:22 PM
If MLSE says that, over the course of a season with league and cup matches, we will likely see our bench players, then yes, I guess I do.

I'm not sure what your point is, but yeah.
Jack Jack. They sold us season ticket packages last year with CONCACF game sin them when we didn't even qualify for them yet. And we still have yet to do so. Have you forgotten?
Your comment was the same. Counting games when in reality we have no right to count them as of today.

Jack
04-10-2011, 03:27 PM
Jack Jack. They sold us season ticket packages last year with CONCACF game sin them when we didn't even qualify for them yet. And we still have yet to do so. Have you forgotten?
Your comment was the same. Counting games when in reality we have no right to count them as of today.

Fair enough. I'll amend my comment to "CONCACAF qualifiers" to appease your sense of accuracy ;).

Or Nutrilite, if that's better.

My point was that there are lots of games to be played this season and these guys will likely get minutes.

Do you nitpick everything?

jloome
04-10-2011, 03:32 PM
Santos had a bit of a clanger.Not the worst I've seen, but they may be expecting a bit much to try and turn him into aplaymaker.

Be interested in seeing Zavarise wide and Stevanovic in the hole.

ag futbol
04-10-2011, 03:54 PM
I think it's best to leave Amado in the past. He's crafty as hell, but I'd like someone with a little bit more pace these days to break out of the midfield and cause problems for defenders.

I have do doubt he'd play the role well for a bit, but I think someone could do it better if we did our scouting right. Gotta believe there is another david ferreira somewhere is south america right now who will be available in the summer window for the right about of money.

Give the front office a couple months to look for the right guy .. it could pay off big time.

Jack
04-10-2011, 03:56 PM
I think it's best to leave Amado in the past. He's crafty as hell, but I'd like someone with a little bit more pace these days to break out of the midfield and cause problems for defenders.

I have do doubt he'd play the role well for a bit, but I think someone could do it better if we did our scouting right. Gotta believe there is another david ferreira somewhere is south america right now who will be available in the summer window for the right about of money.

Give the front office a couple months to look for the right guy .. it could pay off big time.

I agree with this. I would like someone in the mould of Amado, but younger and a bit quicker.

SCF1908
04-10-2011, 04:03 PM
Good point on the road, positive influence from Borman, Stevanovic, Tchani, Cann and De Guzman. Gordan hit a fluke goal but it doesn't matter we got points.


Tchani looks like a lump so far to me. He tripped over the ball three times and gives it away a lot. I am not seeing what many are seeing.

Technorgasm
04-10-2011, 04:17 PM
stevo is a fuckin winner . . .the norb likes winners.

god save our #10!!

jloome
04-10-2011, 04:48 PM
I notice Ives didn't even post our result.

3-0 indeed. What was he smoking?

Ossington Mental Youth
04-10-2011, 04:50 PM
I notice Ives didn't even post our result.

3-0 indeed. What was he smoking?

bwahaha
ive been wondering where that was at.
i more or less said the samething on that old predictions post.
to be fair i think it was some other random dude that predicted it but Ives hasnt been kind anyways saying we will only win 4 games this season.

Walms
04-10-2011, 04:59 PM
I think Cann played an Amazing 90 min, and that takes a lot for me to say because Ive not been his biggest fan this year.

69Chevy396
04-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Okay, I will temper my JDG observations a little, I like him, but his presence on this team likely precludes signing a scoring threat that we so desperately need here. Imagine a player with Stevanovic's grit, intensity and pace who can also score goals in buckets. That is what we are not getting, unless a second DP is sought. So next time JDG makes a nice short pass, or a pretty tackle during a nil nil draw, think of what we could have had here.

SCF1908
04-10-2011, 05:40 PM
So next time JDG makes a nice short pass, or a pretty tackle during a nil nil draw, think of what we could have had here.


Bingo.

He hasn't earned his keep in my books.

Kaz
04-10-2011, 05:52 PM
If the team had played hard like they did in the second have in the first half then we would have possibly won, we didn't work hard enough gave San Jose too much room to play when they had the ball. JDG had a big part in moving things forward and was the reason we got a point out of that game. Without him eventually they would have scored another, Cann couldn't defend for a full 45 minutes with out some breaks, and he would have had to.

When I look at what he brings when he's on I would rather have him then not. He wasn't used in past seasons, he's like a big AWAC's plane in the Military, you really want one near buy to help those fighters out, the fighters can do the job without it, but it's much better to have, especially with in experience pilots.

JDG is just that, he takes the weaker players and makes them play better when they have at least the basic tactical knowledge to do so. He's the brain that will allow the players to develop faster. In fact I think once you see him playing full 90 minutes games I think you'll see a major improvement across the board, because he'll help keep the mid field and the back line thinking tactically and speed up their development in that way.

I could be wrong, but I think JDG is the most valuable person for this system, and it should have been the system introduced the moment he landed 2 years ago. (He's a waste in the direct play and preki ball styles we have been playing)

Pachuco
04-10-2011, 05:55 PM
I agree with this. I would like someone in the mould of Amado, but younger and a bit quicker.

Yeah, I want to clarify my initial comment when I brought up Amado. Cause I re-read it and it sounded like I was saying we should spend big bucks on Amado in the summer.

I was in no way suggesting that we go look for Amado himself. Just saying, we need a #10 that plays like Amado and can also take free kicks. If we were to sign another DP in the summer then getting a #10 is where we should look.

Alot of people want a CF/striker as the next DP. Personally, on this team, I want a #10.

Best MLS player I can think of is Morales in Salt Lake. If we can find a guy like that, we are a force to be reckoned with.

ManUtd4ever
04-10-2011, 06:07 PM
Yeah, I want to clarify my initial comment when I brought up Amado. Cause I re-read it and it sounded like I was saying we should spend big bucks on Amado in the summer.

I was in no way suggesting that we go look for Amado himself. Just saying, we need a #10 that plays like Amado and can also take free kicks. If we were to sign another DP in the summer then getting a #10 is where we should look.

Alot of people want a CF/striker as the next DP. Personally, on this team, I want a #10.

I agree. I stated earlier in the thread that a DP attacking midfielder would be the perfect compliment to TFC's current roster.

Winter and Mariner have demonstrated the ability to identify weaknesses in the roster and address them by signing players with the appropriate skillset.

The DeRo situation wasn't likely anticipated at the start of the season. The subsequent trade resulted in upgrading the backline and midfield with Tchani and Borman, but we lost our only natural AM in the process.

I'm confident that management will target the right player during the next transfer window.

bgnewf
04-10-2011, 06:11 PM
TFC v Earthquakes Post Game Video Blog

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/04/tfc-v-earthquakes-post-game-video-blog/

As per usual, my post game thoughts in video form on TFC's well earned and deserved draw away at San Jose on Saturday evening. In this episode I take a look back at the game in detail, verbalize my mounting concerns over the recent performances of Nana Attakora and I throw some praise towards deserving players like Stefanovic, Cann and especially Alan Gordon.

Your comments are of course always welcome and appreciated.

los sonadores
04-10-2011, 06:18 PM
Okay, I will temper my JDG observations a little, I like him, but his presence on this team likely precludes signing a scoring threat that we so desperately need here. Imagine a player with Stevanovic's grit, intensity and pace who can also score goals in buckets. That is what we are not getting, unless a second DP is sought. So next time JDG makes a nice short pass, or a pretty tackle during a nil nil draw, think of what we could have had here.

We could have a mediocre midfield and a general shambles.

There are guys out there who can score and who can be had in June. I haven't heard anything about JDG = no 2nd dp. Winter has said they are debating the 2nd dp question. But scoring doesn't seem to be our most pressing need - I'd say look to the the back 4, and in time, maybe an AM first.

Pachuco
04-10-2011, 06:23 PM
We could have a mediocre midfield and a general shambles.

There are guys out there who can score and who can be had in June. I haven't heard anything about JDG = no 2nd dp. Winter has said they are debating the 2nd dp question. But scoring doesn't seem to be our most pressing need - I'd say look to the the back 4, and in time, maybe an AM first.

I don't think our back four is that bad. I just think they've been playing bad, in addition to some questionable selections so far. I really feel like we have a decent back 4 if you look at all the players available. Winter is still trying out lots of different combinations and I honestly think we should be able to find it with the guys we have.

los sonadores
04-10-2011, 06:30 PM
I'd like to see what Dicoy can do. It's true they're probably not bringing any defenders in anytime soon unless its in a trade. There's something to be said for some roster stability now, for sure.

ensco
04-10-2011, 06:40 PM
I'd like to see what Dicoy can do. It's true they're probably not bringing any defenders in anytime soon unless its in a trade. There's something to be said for some roster stability now, for sure.

I agree. He looked like a soccer player against Chivas, but it was only a short stint. Let's see what he's got.

raj100
04-10-2011, 08:51 PM
guevara in this team would work WONDERS! some are calling out for someone who can break at pace... but remember that we are not building a counter attacking team.. for the most part a possession based team is what we all think AW is trying to build... a player with the brains of guevara would do so much good when considering that him and jdg in midfield together can pass the ball around countless sides in the mls... in a possession set up an aging player such as guevara can thrive, and it would be a very good short term replacement for that third central spot... santos just wont cut.. hes a CF

Oldtimer
04-10-2011, 09:30 PM
Oldtimer I apologize. I'm in the 89th minute now and JDG really did have very good game.

Thanks... you've got my respect for saying that. It takes someone who really thinks things through to reconsider his position.

I had to back down last year concerning JDG playing prekiball. I though he would be great, but he turned out to be utter crap playing that style. JDG is very good at playing possession ball. He is limited in that he can really only play that one style well, and can't play other styles. Partly it's due to his short size, long balls go right over his head, and partly it's his playing method: he's a technical player not a bruiser.

I think you're absolutely right that Tchani & JDG will make an excellent pairing together. Their respective strengths complement each other well.

One thing: everyone that I heard/read was expecting TFC to get demolished up to 5-0 in this game. I certainly was expecting a loss. Maybe the team has turned the corner quicker than we feared, and we could expect some competitive play.

TFCREDNWHITE
04-10-2011, 09:55 PM
Trust me the corner has not been turned yet....

lobo
04-10-2011, 11:26 PM
LOL, it's not an indicator that Winter has given up a possession-based style, although he has wisely modified it somewhat to counter the threat of a team with a direct style (like Vancouver) merely pushing forward to shut us down. Allowing the occasional long-ball keeps the other side "honest."

yes, gotta be versatile ... system has to support multiple attack and counter-attack tactics, and winter seems to be bringing that ... also liked hearing of his half-time talk, pushing them for more intense play, and our boys had a renewed passion in the second half ... gotta keep building up the consistency of that combination of style and determined play ... we may not top the table but it sure could be an entertaining season ... i look forward to the coming months

lobo
04-10-2011, 11:40 PM
Game in 6 - WTF?!

I wanted to see a replay of when Martina went down in the box to see if the referee made the right call or not and they don't even include it.


did you see busch freak out on martina for diving? man he was steaming ... i'm not sure if it was or wasn't a dive, it may have been an embellished fall coming out of the slide tackle he suffered ... martina sure got a tongue lashing though

anyways, if its not in the game in 6 video, you can see it on the MLS hilight video (http://www.mlssoccer.com/videos?catid=1822&id=13582) at 90 minutes

TFCRegina
04-11-2011, 12:30 AM
did you see busch freak out on martina for diving? man he was steaming ... i'm not sure if it was or wasn't a dive, it may have been an embellished fall coming out of the slide tackle he suffered ... martina sure got a tongue lashing though

anyways, if its not in the game in 6 video, you can see it on the MLS hilight video (http://www.mlssoccer.com/videos?catid=1822&id=13582) at 90 minutes

Looked like a dive to me...

lobo
04-11-2011, 01:12 AM
Looked like a dive to me...
looked like a big over-the-top dive to busch too, man that was funny seeing him go off on martina

boban
04-11-2011, 01:31 AM
Do you nitpick everything?
It's not nitpick my friend. Those games are not sure things for us.
Was it nitpick with the CONCACAF games with MLSE and TFC last fall??

Jack
04-11-2011, 01:48 AM
It's not nitpick my friend. Those games are not sure things for us.
Was it nitpick with the CONCACAF games with MLSE and TFC last fall??

No. And I get that part. But it doesn't really have much to do with what I said. I was talking about whether bench players would get games and referring to the fact that we will have a full season. I wasn't happy about paying for games that weren't a sure thing, either. But it's nitpicking when you pull that out of the conversation and make a big deal out of it when it's not the topic. We potentially have a lot of games this season, though they aren't all guaranteed yet.

cincy
04-11-2011, 06:38 AM
Was the game on HD 500 rogers HD preview channel or only on 428 gol standard def ?

Fort York Redcoat
04-11-2011, 07:01 AM
I think you're absolutely right that Tchani & JDG will make an excellent pairing together. Their respective strengths complement each other well.

One thing: everyone that I heard/read was expecting TFC to get demolished up to 5-0 in this game. I certainly was expecting a loss. Maybe the team has turned the corner quicker than we feared, and we could expect some competitive play.

Tchani concerned my early on when he got that card. Being as young as he is I was wondering about composure but for the rest of the game he worked well and took a knock or two and didn't go off the deep end. JDG did well enough for a passing grade that game and I hope it continues. This pairing should be an upgrade from the Sturgis-JDG talk of preseason.

Yeah I gave the team the benefit of the doubt this game seeing as the lineup from the Chivas match hadn't actually played together. I think that team could've won in SJ but I was predicting and hoping for at least the draw considering they had a week to gel.

menefreghista
04-11-2011, 07:24 AM
Was the game on HD 500 rogers HD preview channel or only on 428 gol standard def ?

Apparently it wasn't in HD on any carrier in Canada. To be fair to the people at Gol TV they did make it available in HD. It seems the cable and satellite companies don't consider it a priority.

boban
04-11-2011, 07:41 AM
No. And I get that part. But it doesn't really have much to do with what I said. I was talking about whether bench players would get games and referring to the fact that we will have a full season. I wasn't happy about paying for games that weren't a sure thing, either. But it's nitpicking when you pull that out of the conversation and make a big deal out of it when it's not the topic. We potentially have a lot of games this season, though they aren't all guaranteed yet.
I made a 1 line comment less than 5 words. Geeze.
Take a pill buddy.

CBTFC
04-11-2011, 08:39 AM
Some of you guys remind me of traders on the floor of the NYSE when the Nasdaq falls. Def entertaining if nothing else.

Pachuco
04-11-2011, 09:03 AM
Apparently it wasn't in HD on any carrier in Canada. To be fair to the people at Gol TV they did make it available in HD. It seems the cable and satellite companies don't consider it a priority.

That's because they don't have a full time HD channel. You are asking the providers to bend over any time GolTV decides to broadcast something in HD. Last year Rogers was the only company that did that. Sorry but I don't believe for a second this is a provider problem.

menefreghista
04-11-2011, 09:07 AM
That's because they don't have a full time HD channel. You are asking the providers to bend over any time GolTV decides to broadcast something in HD. Last year Rogers was the only company that did that. Sorry but I don't believe for a second this is a provider problem.

Trust me I agree with you.

I'm not really defending Gol TV. In 2011 you should be willing to make your network 24 hours HD.

Rogers probably stopped allowing Gol TV to use their temp HD channel because TFC FO didn't want to give Sportsnet any games. More genius from TFC FO.

rocker
04-11-2011, 09:22 AM
Take a pill buddy.

What does Jack need a pill for?
He wrote a very reasonable, calm response.

scooterTFC
04-11-2011, 10:19 AM
Santos had a bit of a clanger.Not the worst I've seen, but they may be expecting a bit much to try and turn him into aplaymaker.

Be interested in seeing Zavarise wide and Stevanovic in the hole.

My observation is that the Maicon as AM move seemed to come on the strength of a few nice through balls to Dero early in the year. With Dero gone, our current mix of attackers arent' frequently looking to make those runs down the middle to get behind the the backline. So Maicon doesn't have the opportunity to play that quick decisive through ball. Aside from the quick through ball I'm not sure he offers us alot in terms of building up the attack... he probably offers us more in a finishing role then a building role.

Stevanoic seems to have 'midfield mentality' in the sense that he likes to initiate the attack and get involved in the build up. When Martina makes runs they tend to be out wide. And Gordon's not going to be beating the back line with his speed off the ball. When you look at our current attackers, Maicon is probably the player most capable of making the runs to get behind the back line, but as long he's playing AM he's not going to be making those runs.

I like the idea of trying Stevanovic in the middle. I might be something they can do with some positional shifts for short periods during the game vs a complete lineup switch. Stevanovic an Maicon could switch off and Maicon could look to makes some runs from the left through the middle.

jloome
04-11-2011, 11:32 AM
My observation is that the Maicon as AM move seemed to come on the strength of a few nice through balls to Dero early in the year. With Dero gone, our current mix of attackers arent' frequently looking to make those runs down the middle to get behind the the backline. So Maicon doesn't have the opportunity to play that quick decisive through ball. Aside from the quick through ball I'm not sure he offers us alot in terms of building up the attack... he probably offers us more in a finishing role then a building role.

Stevanoic seems to have 'midfield mentality' in the sense that he likes to initiate the attack and get involved in the build up. When Martina makes runs they tend to be out wide. And Gordon's not going to be beating the back line with his speed off the ball. When you look at our current attackers, Maicon is probably the player most capable of making the runs to get behind the back line, but as long he's playing AM he's not going to be making those runs.

I like the idea of trying Stevanovic in the middle. I might be something they can do with some positional shifts for short periods during the game vs a complete lineup switch. Stevanovic an Maicon could switch off and Maicon could look to makes some runs from the left through the middle.

One really positive sign was that Gordon actually adapted to the new system by slotting wide a couple of times to fill in Martina and Stevanovic's positions when they were off the ball.

spark
04-11-2011, 06:02 PM
Stumbled on this 'Quakes site and they do a good pod that has all the post game interviews in it.

Go to the end and there's a few words from Winter and Alan Gordon

Centreline Aftershock Pod (http://www.centerlinesoccer.com/podcasts/110409_Aftershocks.mp3)

sashavukelich
04-11-2011, 06:17 PM
hahaha. AW = Aron Winter. AW = Arsene Wenger. This made me smile.

Auzzy
04-11-2011, 07:36 PM
Interesting overview:

http://www.rednationonline.ca/TheBootRoomSecondhalfthestoryindraw.aspx

Yohan
04-11-2011, 08:32 PM
So far, the MLS players Mariner acquired via trades seems to be paying off. Obviously too early to judge, but esp Borman proves so far to be decent fit. (if his defending is a bit suspect at times) Gordon is on pace to have his best career year