With dwindling sales...

[C.Ronaldo]

Will the F.O open up new supports sections?


Just curious, because thats what sold out the place to begin with.

The fact that the entire building acted like a supporters section is what got all this "soccer" stuff off the ground.


oh streamer memories........

[Yohan]

wishful thinking.

MLSE wants less troublesome soccer moms. they are less maintenance than rowdy supporter types

[Bars92]

^That and Danny Dichio.

[Joe Kool]

North end should have been a supporter section and not a cash grab but then again, they do have cupholders...

[dupont]

North end should have been a supporter section and not a cash grab but then again, they do have cupholders...

I tried standing on a cupholder but it just didn't feel right.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

they might reevaluate considering how well the north end is going

[London]

Give US the North Stand!!!!!

let the supporters be together and watch the culture grow by leaps and bounds.

[Parkdale]

yeah, this is dumb.

1 - the supporters sections are the least expensive sections in BMO (at least the south end it)

2 - people who are paying a lot of cash might not want to stand all game

3 - people who DO want to stand all game might not have that much cash.

4 - dropping $300 off the most expensive seats will do more to fill them than making them supporters sections.

5 - this is just dumb.

[brad]

Not a question of supporters sections IMHO, it's a question of how strictly they enforce the rules outside of them.

For the last two seasons, anyone standing in my section was ejected pretty much immediately.

This year, they are not doing that - so far. There are large groups of folks standing in no-standing areas and not a security guard in site.

For the first two years - yes, the supporters end was the main focus, but there were plenty of loud pockets around the stadium that added to the overall experience/atmosphere.

They killed all those other pockets off in year 3, and that atmosphere in BMO has suffered greatly because of it.

[ManUtd4ever]

The fact that the North Stand wasn't initially designated a supporters section with a similar price point as the South end just boggles my mind. It will continue to be an eye sore with empty seats until front office gets their act together.

[Carts]

The north end should have been priced the same as the south end...

The location of the seats is almost identical (the grade is greater in the north for a slightly different perspective)...

Even if they weren't designated supporters sections - the price point was the biggest mistake...

[Pookie]

They priced the north end at the highest prices in the league for a seat from that vantage point.

This was their "thank you" to the Gold and Red listers.

[brad]

The north end should have been priced the same as the south end...

The location of the seats is almost identical (the grade is greater in the north for a slightly different perspective)...

Even if they weren't designated supporters sections - the price point was the biggest mistake...

The North End gives a much better view of the field than the South end due to the height, but certainly nothing to justify the price difference.

Should be on par with light greys IMHO.

[J .]

They should have made the North stands the cheap seats for people who want to go, but dont want to be in a supporters section. They should make the south end General Admission... or vice versa

[SuperTCP]

Give the North to the NEE. They deserve it.

And to all the RPB like myself who are forced to sit elsewhere. RPB deserve it too.

For same price as the south.

[SuperTCP]

The north end should have been priced the same as the south end...

The location of the seats is almost identical (the grade is greater in the north for a slightly different perspective)...

Even if they weren't designated supporters sections - the price point was the biggest mistake...

I agree.

Price point was mistake #1.
Mistake #2 - was not making it available last year to Season Ticket Holders - some from the "waiting list" may have bought in then.

[David_Oliveira]

Dwindling sales? Not according to my ticket rep who says they are 90% sold out

[brad]

Dwindling sales? Not according to my ticket rep who says they are 90% sold out

Dwindling attendance may be more accurate. Although I'd take anything MLSE say about ticket sales or attendance with a grain of salt.

[rocker]

it's weird tho.. the dudes around me renewed despite not showing up to half the games last year. this year, most of them skipped the opener. they showed for the Chivas game.
So clearly there are people over in dark gray that can afford NOT to show up. Looks bad in attendance calculations, but they still keep on buying those season's.

[arbogast]

it's weird tho.. the dudes around me renewed despite not showing up to half the games last year. this year, most of them skipped the opener. they showed for the Chivas game.
So clearly there are people over in dark gray that can afford NOT to show up. Looks bad in attendance calculations, but they still keep on buying those season's.

similar to me in 111 as well, people around me also renewed but missed games last year and the openner too. If people can afford to buy and not show up, then the price point may not be the problem (at least in my section). My guess is they'll show up every week if the team starts winning.

[jazzy]

I agree.

Price point was mistake #1.
Mistake #2 - was not making it available last year to Season Ticket Holders - some from the "waiting list" may have bought in then.

? we were offered seats there but way too expensive

[SCF1908]

My guess is they'll show up every week if the team starts winning.


A hell of a hypothetical given the past four years. My guess is that a lot of people hdeged their bets as there is no increase in price next season and are waiting to see what the on field product will be before deciding to keep or give up their tickets.

The people in my section are all still coming more or less, but you can see a hell of a lot less enthusiasm. Some positive signs to start this season but with the schedule so heavy in home games right now, the probability of good results is not high as the team adapts to a new system, etc.

[rocker]

A hell of a hypothetical given the past four years. My guess is that a lot of people hdeged their bets as there is no increase in price next season and are waiting to see what the on field product will be before deciding to keep or give up their tickets..

I dunno... the team hasn't played well for its whole existence. I doubt the guys around me really care that much about the quality. They are Euro guys who love soccer and seem to see it as a "day out" kind of thing. But they are not rabid in that they need to be at every game. If it's a nice day or a good matchup, they show up.

The guys around me are clearly fairly wealthy and aren't looking at price at all. They've been there since the Beckham signing.

We'll see how their attendance goes this year.

[phonzo]

North end feels like a death trap if I were jumping :)

[Wull]

I do think more supporter sections would help. They use us to sell the matchday experience but when the casual fans that paid $70 show up looking to be among the drums, the standing, the chanting and the flags they are in the east or west stands where they have to sit down or get thrown out, it's harder to start an atmosphere in and it's not the bill of goods they were sold in the ads

[Pachuco]

it's weird tho.. the dudes around me renewed despite not showing up to half the games last year. this year, most of them skipped the opener. they showed for the Chivas game.
So clearly there are people over in dark gray that can afford NOT to show up. Looks bad in attendance calculations, but they still keep on buying those season's.

I'm in dark greys. I left my seats empty about 5 times last year. Not because I'm rich and don't care, but because I couldn't get a bumb off the street to take my tickets. There was even one time I gave them to my barber as a last resort and he didn't even show up. I'll admit there was one game where I had stuff going on and didn't even have time to try and get rid of my ticket. In the end I was so frustrated with the team I didn't care to leave my seats empty.

The point is, the fact that you don't see someone else sitting in their seats just means the tickets are harder to get rid of. Rich people aren't usually stupid people. If they can get rid of their ticket without much effort and make their money back they always will. You don't get rich by throwing your money away.

Second season I had I list of people lined up that I could call 2 hours before the game and none of them would have said no to the tickets. Now it's impossible to even get 1 person to come with me if my wife can't go.

[Mark in Ottawa]

They priced the north end at the highest prices in the league for a seat from that vantage point.

This was their "thank you" to the Gold and Red listers.
And a lot of the Gold and Red listers said... "Thanks but ... No Thanks"

[Mark in Ottawa]

Dwindling sales? Not according to my ticket rep who says they are 90% sold out
Ticket sold does not necessarily equate to butts in the seats.
But ML$E doesn't care as long as the ticket gets paid for.

90% sold out ... hmm ... I wonder if he means Season Tickets or avaerage "attendance" to date this season??

Lies, damn lies and statistics ... you gotta luv em :rolleyes:

[SCF1908]

I dunno... the team hasn't played well for its whole existence. I doubt the guys around me really care that much about the quality. They are Euro guys who love soccer and seem to see it as a "day out" kind of thing. But they are not rabid in that they need to be at every game. If it's a nice day or a good matchup, they show up.

The guys around me are clearly fairly wealthy and aren't looking at price at all. They've been there since the Beckham signing.

We'll see how their attendance goes this year.


They may or may not care about the quality, but I can tell you this. I travel for business for work and have taken my GF to games all over the world now. QPR v Swansea, Club Brugge v Partizan Belgrade, Lazio v Napoli, CSKA Sofia vs Lokomotiv Sofia. She went to TFC a few times. Her thougts were that the football was awful and she find the whole fan experience super contrived and now she refuses to go. I know a lot of guys who just wont bother because of the on field product, still have their tickets until the next price raise, and then when that happens, they are done.

[Oldtimer]

The FO just needs to cut prices... eliminating so-called "premium" games would be a good start. Those often can't be re-sold for face.

[SuperTCP]

? we were offered seats there but way too expensive

This year yes. But last year when they first put in the section it was off limits for seasons, sold as singles only. And too expensive.

[fergiejr]

In my section I see a lot more people standing. We are in 109 and the standing stopped 2 rows behind us, but now it's gone to two rows in front of us. The guys beside me are new - wondered what the chants were and stuff like that. It's good to see.

Maybe the true fan base was able to move down to our section (Supporter Section Adjacent I like to call it). The seats in the section are a lot more full - only half my row was there for most of the games last year.

But you can still see empty patches in the 22x sections and the north end as well.

[menefreghista]

Dwindling sales? Not according to my ticket rep who says they are 90% sold out

This team use to sell to 100% capacity. Even accounting for the stadium expansion they are now getting numbers smaller than the first few seasons.

It is dwindling indeed. And anyone who says otherwise has their head in the sand.


The FO just needs to cut prices... eliminating so-called "premium" games would be a good start. Those often can't be re-sold for face.

I don't think that's good enough anymore. People who have left because they felt they were being gouged will be harder to win back, even with lower prices and a positive outlook on the results.

[brad]

I do think more supporter sections would help. They use us to sell the matchday experience but when the casual fans that paid $70 show up looking to be among the drums, the standing, the chanting and the flags they are in the east or west stands where they have to sit down or get thrown out, it's harder to start an atmosphere in and it's not the bill of goods they were sold in the ads

I do think the novelty of the atmosphere has worn off for a lot. Tickets are too expensive for the quality of football. That is the problem.

[Wull]

I do think the novelty of the atmosphere has worn off for a lot. Tickets are too expensive for the quality of football. That is the problem.

It goes without saying that any new supporter sections should be priced accordingly with the current one. I was just making the point that they pay more to get less :scarf: :nono: than what were sold in the ad :flare::drum::scarf:

[Technorgasm]

Im sure there is an easy metric ..

$$Cost$$ >< ON field Product/Success >< Game day experience

[drexel10]

I am curious to see if Beckham and Co. will be sold out and attended up to the rafters. These tickets are by far the most expensive tickets in MLS and that hurts the footie fan. These tickets have also become not worth the price of admmission for the 20-30 something crowd looking for a good time in the Liberty village area as well.

[menefreghista]

I am curious to see if Beckham and Co. will be sold out and attended up to the rafters.

There are tickets available for this game on ticketbastard.

It may not be a sell out, but it will probably be the highest attended game this season. Although De Rosario's return may battle for that title.

[Alixir]

thats one thing I love about J league Stadiums. the ends (supporters sections) are about $22 a ticket for single game tickets(my season tickets broken down cost me about $8 a game) . No set seat numbers. Find a place and sit in it. They let season ticket holders into the stadium about 30 minutes before the rest of the herd. The supporters sections are always full. Because there are no seat numbers, the day of the game they calculate how many away supporter tickets have been sold and section off the away supporters section to fit the amount of tickets sold. Only the side stand seats are numbered.

It really bothered me when I was in Canada last summer and went to a TFC game and had to spend around $80 a ticket to be up with my back to the wall....would rather have spent $80 to be down with you guys.

[ManUtd4ever]

I do think the novelty of the atmosphere has worn off for a lot. Tickets are too expensive for the quality of football. That is the problem.

This is it in a nutshell. I think supporters sections still offer great value, but the ticket prices are unreasonable throughout the rest of the stadium. If the ticket pricing structure from 2007 had been maintained, I believe the stadium would still be at full capacity for every match. The annual price increases combined with the club's futility was a recipe for disaster.

[Carefree]

There are tickets available for this game on ticketbastard.

It may not be a sell out, but it will probably be the highest attended game this season. Although De Rosario's return may battle for that title.
There were lots of empty seats last year for the Thierry Henry game, and I was able to get front-row seats just a few weeks before the game.

Supporters may pay attention to things like the Dero situation, but I would be willing to bet that by the time TFC took the field against Chivas last Saturday, more than half the people in the stadium had no idea he was gone. (I would go even further and bet that at least 20% didn't know who Dero was.)

I don't think Beckham is as much of a draw anymore, and I doubt there will be more than 18k at BMO next Wednesday.

[maninb]

wishful thinking.

MLSE wants less troublesome soccer moms. they are less maintenance than rowdy supporter types

Soccer Moms only show up 2-3 times per year...I think MLSE isn't that stupid..another Supporters section will only succeed though if they lower the prices on the North end.....

[Ossington Mental Youth]

thats one thing I love about J league Stadiums. the ends (supporters sections) are about $22 a ticket for single game tickets(my season tickets broken down cost me about $8 a game) . No set seat numbers. Find a place and sit in it. They let season ticket holders into the stadium about 30 minutes before the rest of the herd. The supporters sections are always full. Because there are no seat numbers, the day of the game they calculate how many away supporter tickets have been sold and section off the away supporters section to fit the amount of tickets sold. Only the side stand seats are numbered.

It really bothered me when I was in Canada last summer and went to a TFC game and had to spend around $80 a ticket to be up with my back to the wall....would rather have spent $80 to be down with you guys.

Was the same thing in korea however there was way less demand for the sport. We complain of empty seats even when we have 17-18k in a 21k stadium, there itd be 12-15k in a 30k stadium

[C.Ronaldo]

People show for the supporters, but end up in a dead zone.

Everyone that goes with my tickets (when i cant make it) are shocked at how quiet it is.


Fans sit and stare, and are all thinking.....man i wish i was in that section in the south

[arbogast]

I do think the novelty of the atmosphere has worn off for a lot. Tickets are too expensive for the quality of football. That is the problem.

BINGO! That and people are frustrated that they can't aprticipate int he atmosphere cuz they cant stand and sing in their non supporters section.

I wonder if having a designated seating only area and openning up the rest to standing like Seattle would bring people back?

[lobo]

We are in 109 ... our section (Supporter Section Adjacent I like to call it).

i've got some seats in lower 110 ... i call it being on the Cusp of Craziness.

[JonO]

Was the same thing in korea however there was way less demand for the sport. We complain of empty seats even when we have 17-18k in a 21k stadium, there itd be 12-15k in a 30k stadium
The problem is that there is clearly demand for the sport here, at the right price. Personally, I think MLSE took a gamble for short term profit and lost. Other than the fact that season tickets are down, general interest is down too. That can't help merchandising either.

I think everyone here has pretty much agreed that tickets outside the supporters section are ridiculously priced. (Tickets in the supporters section increased too rapidly, but that's another topic.)

Just comparing the cost of 108/107 reds to other teams across the league tells you how out of whack the prices are. TFC - $1600 per ticket. Next most expensive was LA at approx $1200 per ticket. (the difference alone can by a season ticket in the supporter section). In Vancouver, the same seats are $800 - that's half price! Bah!

[Davenport]

The smartest thing MLSE can do (it might be a first) is open the North End to RPB and NEE fans who can create a proper home end.
Having these 2 fan groups in corners is just not right and it doesn't work.

[Davenport]

I do think the novelty of the atmosphere has worn off for a lot. Tickets are too expensive for the quality of football. That is the problem.
Nailed.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

The problem is that there is clearly demand for the sport here, at the right price. Personally, I think MLSE took a gamble for short term profit and lost. Other than the fact that season tickets are down, general interest is down too. That can't help merchandising either.

I think everyone here has pretty much agreed that tickets outside the supporters section are ridiculously priced. (Tickets in the supporters section increased too rapidly, but that's another topic.)

Just comparing the cost of 108/107 reds to other teams across the league tells you how out of whack the prices are. TFC - $1600 per ticket. Next most expensive was LA at approx $1200 per ticket. (the difference alone can by a season ticket in the supporter section). In Vancouver, the same seats are $800 - that's half price! Bah!

im definitely not justifying MLSEs prices, just saying we cant compare what they have in Japan to what we have here

[ensco]

There is pretty much no non-SSH market at over $25/seat.

[brad]

It goes without saying that any new supporter sections should be priced accordingly with the current one. I was just making the point that they pay more to get less :scarf: :nono: than what were sold in the ad :flare::drum::scarf:
I don't mean within the supporters sections, I mean outside of it. The "crazy" atmosphere used to be a draw for the casual when it was new and exciting. I don't think that's that case anymore.

Also, I don't think that adding more supporters sections would accomplish much unless those tickets were in the hands of various supports groups to distribute (which will never happen). If not, they would be snapped up by people in the more expensive areas wanting cheap seats.

[prizby]

I don't know if they realize that selling tickets cheaper will get more fans in the seats...more fans in the seats = more potential people buying overpriced concession food and drinks

it makes sense to me..but i guess making more $ is everything

they should really bring in a system like Qcue and do some sort of dynamic pricing for single game tickets that just don't sell ;)

[brad]

Soccer Moms only show up 2-3 times per year...I think MLSE isn't that stupid..another Supporters section will only succeed though if they lower the prices on the North end.....

And allow the supporters groups to distribute them (which won't happen). If not you will end up with a "based on your relocation date" relocation policy that will end up with an exodus of people wanting to save money on their seasons. I suspect that MLSE know this and don't want to open up the avenue for a bunch of people to give up their expensive seats.

[brad]

People show for the supporters, but end up in a dead zone.

Everyone that goes with my tickets (when i cant make it) are shocked at how quiet it is.


Fans sit and stare, and are all thinking.....man i wish i was in that section in the south

Wrong - some do, but plenty don't. I would guess that a very large number of people in the stadium don't want to be on their feet all game, don't want someone waving a flag in their face, and don't want to watch football from behind the goal.

[brad]

BINGO! That and people are frustrated that they can't aprticipate int he atmosphere cuz they cant stand and sing in their non supporters section.


I've seen it go from frustration to apathy (and attrition) in my section, which was one of the louder non-supporters section sections in the first two years.

[SuperTCP]

I remember chanting and singing in the west (first season), especially when the south did the "west side stand up" chant.

Second season I sat in 105 and most were chanting as well.

I was in 105 last year for the opener and it was quiet, back in the west this season and it is quiet.

Also rememeber when all the south end was chanting and boucing, looks like only RPB section is doing that now.

Also I remember most of the stadium chanting the Dichio 24min chant, now just the supporters section sings it.

Hope the passion comes back to the whole stadium.

This is BMO Field! Not the f-ing ACC

[Hitcho]

I think we're in the middle of a process that began in 2007 when MLSE realised how much more demand there was than what they had expected. They immediately went to a long term cash grab plan and ultimately it's going to kill the attendance. I expect attendance to keep dropping year on year with MLSE in charge of things. They did a great job getting the franchise off the ground and since then they've set about screwing it up (absent the grass going down). This will continue until they have squeezed every last drop of blood from the fans and no longer see the value in keeping the team, so decide to sell it.

We're in for a rough time over the next five years, and it could all have been so different...

[C.Ronaldo]

^agreed

Just like the leafs and raptors attendance.

I dont want to go to a sports event and feel like I'm in a business meeting.

[Pookie]

BINGO! That and people are frustrated that they can't aprticipate int he atmosphere cuz they cant stand and sing in their non supporters section.

I wonder if having a designated seating only area and openning up the rest to standing like Seattle would bring people back?

I think a big step would be to re-align their view of a "Supporters" section and use 110 as the model.

From rows 20, section 110 is a standing section. Those that want to sit, can do so below.

There is nothing to prevent them from doing the same from 105 (104 being Visitors Support) on through 110. Make the last 5-10 rows standing rows.

Harder to do on the other side with the Club seats and boxes but it would be a start towards re-creating the potential for atmosphere.

[mastermixer]

I don't know if they realize that selling tickets cheaper will get more fans in the seats...more fans in the seats = more potential people buying overpriced concession food and drinks

it makes sense to me..but i guess making more $ is everything

they should really bring in a system like Qcue and do some sort of dynamic pricing for single game tickets that just don't sell ;)

TFC has been banking on the atmosphere to sell seats the last 4 years. Now they have worn that shine off, they have to bank on the actual product.
The problem is I don't know if the same people that came for the atmosphere were actual soccer fans and will come back if the team is winning. I think the people that are at the game now (18,000 or so) is the ones that we will see on a consistent basis.

[Pachuco]

I think a big step would be to re-align their view of a "Supporters" section and use 110 as the model.

From rows 20, section 110 is a standing section. Those that want to sit, can do so below.

There is nothing to prevent them from doing the same from 105 (104 being Visitors Support) on through 110. Make the last 5-10 rows standing rows.

Harder to do on the other side with the Club seats and boxes but it would be a start towards re-creating the potential for atmosphere.

Say what? You want people in the supporter's sections to all of a sudden pay dark grey prices? Or you want people paying top dollar in the red section to sit right below the supporter's?

This makes absolutely no sense.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

TFC has been banking on the atmosphere to sell seats the last 4 years. Now they have worn that shine off, they have to bank on the actual product.
The problem is I don't know if the same people that came for the atmosphere were actual soccer fans and will come back if the team is winning. I think the people that are at the game now (18,000 or so) is the ones that we will see on a consistent basis.

question is are they going to price themselves out of fans.
sure theyve raised prices and done so greedily as there has been a demand but now that it deminishes and the product flounders will they continue. Even ifthe product takes off are they still going to make it too expensive. Although i havent agreed with allof MLSEs moves (especially regarding mismanagement) theyd be foolish to do so and people arent that dumb that they cant hear chanting on tv if there is none.

[ManUtd4ever]

If MLSE wants to salvage an atmosphere comparable to the first 3 years, it's very simple based on the suggestions that have been made in this thread.

-Designate the North Stand as a supporters section with similar pricing to the South End

-Discount prices throughout the rest of the stadium outside the supporters sections in the range of $30-$50

[brad]

I think a big step would be to re-align their view of a "Supporters" section and use 110 as the model.

From rows 20, section 110 is a standing section. Those that want to sit, can do so below.

There is nothing to prevent them from doing the same from 105 (104 being Visitors Support) on through 110. Make the last 5-10 rows standing rows.

Harder to do on the other side with the Club seats and boxes but it would be a start towards re-creating the potential for atmosphere.

This is a great idea and one that I suggested to my rep a couple of years ago.

I think the issue is that the seats at the back of some sections are cheaper than the seats at the front. A re-shuffle like this would involve either changing that pricing scheme or forcing people that want to sit to potentially double the cost of their seasons.

[brad]

Say what? You want people in the supporter's sections to all of a sudden pay dark grey prices? Or you want people paying top dollar in the red section to sit right below the supporter's?

This makes absolutely no sense.

The cheaper seats are at the top in some sections. About half the price. He is saying (I assume) make the back rows of sections standing areas where people can stand and watch the game. This allows this to happen without spoiling the game for those that don't want to or can't stand for the match.

It doesn't have to be full blown supporters sections at the back - just standing areas.

[GBV]

I don't know if they realize that selling tickets cheaper will get more fans in the seats...more fans in the seats = more potential people buying overpriced concession food and drinks

it makes sense to me..but i guess making more $ is everything

they should really bring in a system like Qcue and do some sort of dynamic pricing for single game tickets that just don't sell ;)

And full stadium looks way, way better on TV.
Which triggers watchers to want to go.

[SuperTCP]

If MLSE wants to salvage an atmosphere comparable to the first 3 years, it's very simple based on the suggestions that have been made in this thread.

-Designate the North Stand as a supporters section with similar pricing to the South End

-Discount prices throughout the rest of the stadium outside the supporters sections in the range of $30-$50

I agree so much as I have to repeat it

-Designate the North Stand as a supporters section with similar pricing to the South End

-Discount prices throughout the rest of the stadium outside the supporters sections in the range of $30-$50

[brad]

If MLSE wants to salvage an atmosphere comparable to the first 3 years, it's very simple based on the suggestions that have been made in this thread.

-Designate the North Stand as a supporters section with similar pricing to the South End

-Discount prices throughout the rest of the stadium outside the supporters sections in the range of $30-$50

I think that allowing standing sections in more areas is critical. Non-supporters sections contributed a lot more than recognized to the overall atmosphere in the first two seasons. That has been effectively killed off by MLSE and security.

Here's a few related experiences I've had on this topic that illustrate how MLSE is killing interest in this team with their policies. I sit by the visiting supporters in a section that used to be lively, and is now dead enough that you can here a pin drop (although this season seems better so far)

Things that I have seen BMO security do first hand:

-work with the away supporters (Columbus I believe) to identify and eject TFC fans that were standing. The away supporters figured out the seating deal quickly and had great fun singling out TFC fans for breaking the rules, got security to eject them, then had great fun taunting them while they were getting kicked out.

-A dad has his baby in the section. She started crying - he stood up to rock her to calm her down. Security was on him immediately and forced him to sit down. He tried to reason with them to no avail. He packed up and left and said would never be back.

-At the River friendly, a couple of young River Fans were standing against the back railing waving a River Flag and singing River songs. Security forces them to sit down and put there flags away. They eventually left and said they would never come back.

I could write pages about such occurrences.

[werewolf]

I could write pages about such occurrences.

Please do.

Those instances are disgraceful, but unfortunately not surprising.

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=24827

There is one guy in front of the corner this year, bald black guy with sunglasses, he seems to be cool. Intelligence and reasoning capabilities, not sure how he got hired.

[Number Nine]

They should have made the North stands the cheap seats for people who want to go, but dont want to be in a supporters section. They should make the south end General Admission... or vice versa

I like the idea of making the South End GA. It helps to build camaraderie amongst the supporters by allowing them to mingle anywhere in the stands. I mean, we move around as it is, but it helps to push that mindset. Which in turn improves the atmosphere. And the price point for the North End just boggles my mind. It's such an eyesore to see it largely empty during games. Luckily, it doesn't appear in broadcasts too often, and for good reason.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

me not so much down with the GA, dont want to give up my sweet seats and i dont want to fight to sit in them every time, although i definitely like the idea dont think itd work so well in execution

[Hitcho]

Prices will come down in the long run - I really think we're at the start of a "dwindling" trend now with TFC. it took a while to piss off the supporters enough to make it start, but it now has, and will continue until MLSE take more than cosmetic steps to try and redress the balance. The price hikes since 2007 are disgusting.

They can say all they want that it was always planned (esp in south end) but the consumer still feels aggrieved, and the bottom line is TFC has basically been a shit show of a circus for four years with poor quality football, even worse results and ludicrous off-field drama causing more news than anything else.

When attendances dip to 12-15k every game, then maybe MLSE will come back to reality in terms of their pricing structure, but by then the damage will be irreparable from where they were in 2007, and may be already.

[QSIM]

I think MLSE is in for some big trouble if they don't start to change their policies. They have continued to try to run their franchises (Raptors, TFC, and to some extent the Marlies) as if they were the Leafs.

They will find out soon enough that they are not immune to the laws of supply and demand.

FFS give us the North Stand.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

im sure they are starting to recognize a bit now with it not always being sold out (albeit still at least 80% full) as well as Garbers supposed snips at MLSE

[Wull]

im sure they are starting to recognize a bit now with it not always being sold out (albeit still at least 80% full) as well as Garbers supposed snips at MLSE

I think they got a fright at the end of last season and again with the renewal sluggishness. I think if they have any town halls again this season this will be a big theme although I don't necessarily agree with giving supporter groups control of any area

[habstfc]

I think a significant number of fans are turned off by the constant swearing by drunken idiots. It's one thing to swear the odd time but to hear a constant barrage of cunt, you fag, fuck, shithead etc. are keeping many away. I have a neighbour in my neighbourhood that gave up his seasons after 09' because of this.

[Carefree]

I think a significant number of fans are turned off by the constant swearing by drunken idiots. It's one thing to swear the odd time but to hear a constant barrage of cunt, you fag, fuck, shithead etc. are keeping many away. I have a neighbour in my neighbourhood that gave up his seasons after 09' because of this.
I'm having more and more difficulty convincing my wife to come to games with me for that exact reason. Too many douchebags.

[BeerBaron95]

Give the North to the NEE. They deserve it.

And to all the RPB like myself who are forced to sit elsewhere. RPB deserve it too.

For same price as the south.

Its not about giving the North stand to NEE or us... its about offering us a new section designated for supporters period... We need to stop the this gorup that group crap and come together for our best interests inside BMO.


They should have made the North stands the cheap seats for people who want to go, but dont want to be in a supporters section. They should make the south end General Admission... or vice versa

North stands should be cheap seats but also for SUPPORTERS not ppl who want to pay a cheap seat to watch the game.... that is the key factor here.

It continues in 112 when tourists and 1 time only visitors still complain about flags, drums, ppl standing and singing/chanting... its a never ending cry fest from ppl who chose to buy a ticket there (I'm assuming the vast majority know what happens ) simply cause its cheap... yes there are those that buy that ticket not knowing what they are in for, So its understandable they might be overwhelmed at points.

We should get the North stands period.

[Pookie]

The cheaper seats are at the top in some sections. About half the price. He is saying (I assume) make the back rows of sections standing areas where people can stand and watch the game. This allows this to happen without spoiling the game for those that don't want to or can't stand for the match.

It doesn't have to be full blown supporters sections at the back - just standing areas.

Bingo.

But perhaps I just assumed he knew from the colour chart that there were different prices already in 110.

That's the idea though. Create a top level supporters section throughout the majority of the stadium to encourage the atmosphere

[CretanBull]

I agree so much as I have to repeat it

-Designate the North Stand as a supporters section with similar pricing to the South End

-Discount prices throughout the rest of the stadium outside the supporters sections in the range of $30-$50

If they did that, they could expand to 25,000 seats and sell out every game. People love the sport in this city and will watch the MLS - just not at the crazy prices that MLSE want to charge.

[brad]

I would also put the away supporters in the north west upper corner. That seems to be mostly empty this year and top of 104 seems like too good of seats to give to away supporters.

[Pachuco]

The cheaper seats are at the top in some sections. About half the price. He is saying (I assume) make the back rows of sections standing areas where people can stand and watch the game. This allows this to happen without spoiling the game for those that don't want to or can't stand for the match.

It doesn't have to be full blown supporters sections at the back - just standing areas.

He is saying turn the top of 107 and 108 (amongst other sections) into SUPPORTERS sections. That's an absurd idea. Second most expensive tickets at BMO field and you think you can turn those into supporter's sections?

Regardless, why does every person that sits in a standing area assume everyone else wants to stand? Good luck finding that many people at BMO that want to stand and chant all game long. Lately, it doesn't even look like people sitting in the designated supporter's sections want to chant either.

This entire problem has to do with interest dwindling down, not where people are sitting or standing.

The entire south end is a supporter's section. Fill in the entire south end with supporter's would be the first challenge.

[BeerBaron95]

He is saying turn the top of 107 and 108 (amongst other sections) into SUPPORTERS sections. That's an absurd idea. Second most expensive tickets at BMO field and you think you can turn those into supporter's sections?

Regardless, why does every person that sits in a standing area assume everyone else wants to stand? Good luck finding that many people at BMO that want to stand and chant all game long. Lately, it doesn't even look like people sitting in the designated supporter's sections want to chant either.

This entire problem has to do with interest dwindling down, not where people are sitting or standing.

The entire south end is a supporter's section. Fill in the entire south end with supporter's would be the first challenge.


Pretty sure he meant if top half of those sections were like the top of 110 and in turn price them accordingly... not keep current value of seat.

just saying.

[Pachuco]

Pretty sure he meant if top half of those sections were like the top of 110 and in turn price them accordingly... not keep current value of seat.

just saying.

And what I am saying is, those are the second best seats in the house. Why would TFC drop the value of those seats to supporter's section value? I know MLSE is dumb. But they can't be that dumb.

The top of 110 is cheaper then the bottom of 110 because the view is worst. But you can't all of a sudden charge supporter's prices at the top of 107 and keep charging what you are charging in 109. It throws everything out of whack. It would never work and it's the worst idea I've seen proposed.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

I think a significant number of fans are turned off by the constant swearing by drunken idiots. It's one thing to swear the odd time but to hear a constant barrage of cunt, you fag, fuck, shithead etc. are keeping many away. I have a neighbour in my neighbourhood that gave up his seasons after 09' because of this.

My sister got really turned off by this exact same thing. Personally I don't mind swearing much, but constant swearing for the sake of swearing does get tiring.

[ilikemusic]

As someone who is incredibly crass in private and personal conversation (and I clearly love cursing on this forum), I cant stand the people who go to BMO Field and think, "this is my chance to yell CUNT really loudly".

I saw a guy in shorts (clearly there to be a really active 'supporter'), standing on the back of the seat in front of him, leaning forward, and screaming "YOU FUCKING CUNT!", at the top of his lungs. Directly beneath him was a family of four with two kids who couldnt have been older than ten years old. This wasnt in the south end btw. It was on the tail edge of the supporters section on the east stand.

Some people just haven't got a fucking clue. Just because you can swear, doesnt mean you should.

[babone]

what the scalping like at BMO lately? is it possible that scalper bought up seats based on previous demand and now are stuck with them.

To be honest my company had a tough time this year getting rid of leaf tickets and even tougher time with raptor seats

[Pookie]

And what I am saying is, those are the second best seats in the house. Why would TFC drop the value of those seats to supporter's section value? I know MLSE is dumb. But they can't be that dumb.

The top of 110 is cheaper then the bottom of 110 because the view is worst. But you can't all of a sudden charge supporter's prices at the top of 107 and keep charging what you are charging in 109. It throws everything out of whack. It would never work and it's the worst idea I've seen proposed.

You know that sections 111, 119 are priced more than 112-118? That 127 is more than 112?

That 111 and 119 are priced the same as 219, 220? And that the upper part of 110 are the same as upper 105 and all of 104?

So, in conclusion, supporter's prices are already different based on vantage points. Some "supporters" sections are priced the same as non-supporters in other areas of the stadium.

Nowhere in this idea to make 109-105 standing sections at the top is the provision that they MUST be priced the same as 112. You could charge more based on the vantage point but less than you'd charge for a seat nearer the action (lower row).

Riddle me this, which sections go relatively unsold for CCL games?

What's 100% of $0?

Lower the price, encourage the atmosphere and they might sell more tickets and re-establish their wait list.

TFC already charge in the top 3 for seats all over the stadium, including the most expensive seats in the league (2010) for behind the goal seats in the North End.

Pricing needs an overhaul... despite your suggestion that it is the worst idea ever.

[swan]

i'd rather move all the people that just want cheap seats that are in the south end to the north end and move other supporters that are scattered in the stand to the southend (if they want to) .. south end is better and closer to the pitch..

my 2 cents

[Pachuco]

You know that sections 111, 119 are priced more than 112-118? That 127 is more than 112?

That 111 and 119 are priced the same as 219, 220? And that the upper part of 110 are the same as upper 105 and all of 104?

So, in conclusion, supporter's prices are already different based on vantage points. Some "supporters" sections are priced the same as non-supporters in other areas of the stadium.

Nowhere in this idea to make 109-105 standing sections at the top is the provision that they MUST be priced the same as 112. You could charge more based on the vantage point but less than you'd charge for a seat nearer the action (lower row).

Riddle me this, which sections go relatively unsold for CCL games?

What's 100% of $0?

Lower the price, encourage the atmosphere and they might sell more tickets and re-establish their wait list.

TFC already charge in the top 3 for seats all over the stadium, including the most expensive seats in the league (2010) for behind the goal seats in the North End.

Pricing needs an overhaul... despite your suggestion that it is the worst idea ever.

Yes pricing needs an overhaul. Not sure what that has to do with your idea of putting supporters right behind the suits. Your idea isn't to simply drop prices. Your idea is to get MLSE to give supporter's some of the best seats in the house at supporter pricing. Good luck with that. I can't imagine who would sit in the south if they can sit in the best seats in the house for similar pricing.

[jimiv]

If seats continue to stay empty, why not discount the east stand and make the whole side the "supporters stand" ,move those who don't wish to stand, sing, or hear "blue" language to the West side.

It would look great for the TV cameras.

[brad]

He is saying turn the top of 107 and 108 (amongst other sections) into SUPPORTERS sections. That's an absurd idea. Second most expensive tickets at BMO field and you think you can turn those into supporter's sections?

But the top of sections like 104 and 105 are the cheapest seats in the stadium outside the supporters end.


Regardless, why does every person that sits in a standing area assume everyone else wants to stand? Good luck finding that many people at BMO that want to stand and chant all game long. Lately, it doesn't even look like people sitting in the designated supporter's sections want to chant either.

You are speaking hypothetically. I am speaking from expeience. In the first two seasons, the back of 105 (and 104 when not reserved for away supporters) stood all game every game and were rowdy. There were no issues, everyone wanted to. When security cracked down - it drove everyone out and killed the atmosphere.

I was flat out told by my ticket rep that there were no problems in that area. There were no complaints, but they couldn't allow it because it would send the wrong message to other pockets where there were complaints.


This entire problem has to do with interest dwindling down, not where people are sitting or standing.

Price and a crappy team are the biggest factors. But killing the game day atmosphere has played a big part for a lot of people. Again - this is not hypothetical but what I've heard first hand from a lot of people in my section that gave up their tickets.

[brad]

The top of 110 is cheaper then the bottom of 110 because the view is worst. But you can't all of a sudden charge supporter's prices at the top of 107 and keep charging what you are charging in 109. It throws everything out of whack. It would never work and it's the worst idea I've seen proposed.

Perceived by some to be a better view. You get a better look at the players when they are up close, but you get a much better view of the entire match up higher. That's the reason that the most expensive tickets in Europe are usually at the half way point in the second tier.

[Alixir]

Perceived by some to be a better view. You get a better look at the players when they are up close, but you get a much better view of the entire match up higher. That's the reason that the most expensive tickets in Europe are usually at the half way point in the second tier.its the same in Japan. Midfield uppers are the money seats...hell the corners are more expensive then the supports sections on the ends.

[torontocelt]

This is a great idea and one that I suggested to my rep a couple of years ago.

I think the issue is that the seats at the back of some sections are cheaper than the seats at the front. A re-shuffle like this would involve either changing that pricing scheme or forcing people that want to sit to potentially double the cost of their seasons.

Who in their right mind would pay double to sit down? Most people would rather give up their seasons than pay double for the right to actually sit in their own seat. I would not be held to ransom like this for sure.

[brad]

Who in their right mind would pay double to sit down? Most people would rather give up their seasons than pay double for the right to actually sit in their own seat. I would not be held to ransom like this for sure.

No one would - including me. They could have gotten creative and fixed the pricing scheme to make it work for everyone. In the end, they drove a couple hundred season ticket holders out. The back three rows of the whole section were more or less empty for the past two years.

[ag futbol]

wishful thinking.

MLSE wants less troublesome soccer moms. they are less maintenance than rowdy supporter types
Strange enough (well maybe not considering what we've seen in the past) soccer moms are on average inappropriate customers to base your team on. If the TFC hadn't figured out how to cater to a supporters base and create a business model around it MLS would look a lot different right now.

The Marketing intelligence when it came to families / soccer mom's found the following:

1) They were very price sensitive

2) They were very prone to switching with different trends in family activities (Jimmy does Karate now, so we're watching something else).

3) Retained very little enjoyment from the game itself and continuously required gimics to keep them coming to the park (free t-shirt, hotdog, blah, blah blah).

As for the supporters, they were pretty much the anti-thesis of that. Rumors of hooligan armageddon were greatly exaggerated and people realized selling beer makes a greater margin than giving away free shit.

[andyc]

Maybe MLSE should do stuff to encourage fans to buy tickets.... Ground breaking stuff for sure. Maybe stuff other teams do like:

- Have reasonably priced tickets for SSH
- Bring in top tier European clubs included in the season ticket price
- Lower concession prices
- Real promotional campaigns
- Free gravy boats :D

Please don't make excuses for MLSE such as stadium size. This club makes a healthy profit and they didn't give a sh*t when demand exceeded supply. Now is the time for the club to look at what they can do for us....

:flare:

[Pookie]

Who in their right mind would pay double to sit down? Most people would rather give up their seasons than pay double for the right to actually sit in their own seat. I would not be held to ransom like this for sure.

Folks in rows 1 - 19 of 110 already pay more to sit.

No one is necessarily saying double and no one is saying the whole east side maybe it is the last 5 - 10 rows. Maybe if you stand in 108 your "supporters ticket" is more expensive than the guy in 114. 110 supporters tickets are already more expensive.

This is a move designed to bring atmosphere back. Or they could do nothing and keep the library next to a frat party and watch again as people migrate out next year

[torontocelt]

Folks in rows 1 - 19 of 110 already pay more to sit.

No one is necessarily saying double and no one is saying the whole east side maybe it is the last 5 - 10 rows. Maybe if you stand in 108 your "supporters ticket" is more expensive than the guy in 114. 110 supporters tickets are already more expensive.

This is a move designed to bring atmosphere back. Or they could do nothing and keep the library next to a frat party and watch again as people migrate out next year

I understand what you are saying Pookie and it is a good idea but a previous poster was quoting double which is nuts although he may have just been picking any number. It is a good idea but there still has to be a balance in ticket prices. Also I would not want to sit in the first few rows in in front of people standing in case they were doing the bouncy and were spilling their drinks etc.

Another idea is they could reduce all ticket prices and have more family areas. If people could take their kids out on a summers day and not pay much then that would benefit TFC especially if they do not have to be situated next to fans who are jumping about and swearing. I sat in an ordinary section once and there was a young family in front of me and I felt real bad for them that their kids had to listen to some guys shouting really offensive things, I am pretty sure they would not have come back to TFC after that.

The best thing that can happen in my opinion is that casual fans continue to give up seasons as hopefully this will drive down ticket prices. TFC will do what other MLS clubs do and offer better incentives to go and perhaps more people will pick up individual tickets or smaller packages. The quality is not high enough to charge what they do, people are realizing this and it is a harder sell. If TFC could offer a pack in conjunction with ontario place then they could get more families in too in the summer, they sometimes offer this and it would be interesting to see how successful it actually is. I would think that families would probably spend more in concessions than most people also.

[lobo]

brad, i also sit in top of 105, row 29 ... gotta say, you are right, the atmosphere in our section has gone from great to almost nil in the past 3 years, although it can still be fun when there are away supporters in 104 top ... there's a bunch of guys in the top rows, maybe it's you, who do their best to get things going and a few others and i will always join in, but it sure ain't like it was ... i agree that standing would add much to the top of our section, but it seems unlikely ... this year i'll be splitting games between upper 105 and lower 110 just so i can get back some of those good times

[brad]

I understand what you are saying Pookie and it is a good idea but a previous poster was quoting double which is nuts although he may have just been picking any number. It is a good idea but there still has to be a balance in ticket prices.

Where the double figure came from is in 105 - tickets in the lower half are twice the price as the upper half. What I was getting at is if you start shifting people from top to bottom to accomadate this, you have a problem for exactly the reason you cite.

[habstfc]

Where the double figure came from is in 105 - tickets in the lower half are twice the price as the upper half.

No they're not. Lower half are $10 more.

[superstar1976]

I'm happy I didn't renew. I felt gouged, lied to, and just couldn't justify the cost of game day.

I'm a fan, but I watch on TV and plenty of people I know have to give their tickets away so I still get to go!

[brad]

No they're not. Lower half are $10 more.

I'm not talking singles - I'm talking seasons. The seasons in the lower half of 105 are not quite twice - but close. $627 for the lower half, $361 for the upper (for renewals).

Cost of one off tickets is irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about having to move season ticket holders to allow for standing. People buying one offs have to take what is available.

[habstfc]

I think a solution for the north stands is simple, make the first 6 rows (there are 18 rows I believe) medium grey pricing and the last 12 rows light grey. It would kind of be like greens and purples at the ACC. They have to charge more than the south end as the vanatage point is much better than the south. I sat in the north stands for about 8 games last year and they are much better. They are not however, worth twice as much, which is what they are charging now. I think people might spend 40 bucks or so to sit there but not 60 when you include service charges which is complete lunacy.

[kodiakTFC]

I think a solution for the north stands is simple, make the first 6 rows (there are 18 rows I believe) medium grey pricing and the last 12 rows light grey. It would kind of be like greens and purples at the ACC. They have to charge more than the south end as the vanatage point is much better than the south. I sat in the north stands for about 8 games last year and they are much better. They are not however, worth twice as much, which is what they are charging now. I think people might spend 40 bucks or so to sit there but not 60 when you include service charges which is complete lunacy.

I actually really like this idea, hopefully the team adopts something like this.