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denime
04-07-2011, 05:26 AM
Mornin'



Frei, Winter Hoping For Improvements (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04/frei-winter-hoping-improvements)


MLS: TFC must open locker room to media (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/04/06/tfc_lockerroom/)


U20 World Cup Dream Over (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04/u20-world-cup-dream-over)


Canada to play Gold Cup warmup in T.O. (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/04/06/canada_warmup/)


Canada to host Ecuador in Gold Cup tune-up (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/04/06/sp-canada-ecuador.html)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

JuliquE
04-07-2011, 05:57 AM
Winter should take all the players to gym post game and open up the empty locker room to the media.

Also...if MLS and the media win this fight my first course of action if I were Winter would be to advise the players to only give the following answers to every single question asked.

1. "This game is behind us. We're going to start working on winning the next one."
2. "No comment"

It'd be funny to read the same shitty quotes after every game, in every publication.
These.

Fort York Redcoat
04-07-2011, 06:05 AM
Canada v Ecuador June 1st! Finally announced! Ticket info for our section forthcoming!

Let's make this friendly an even better turnout than for Peru match!

pekduck
04-07-2011, 06:19 AM
Canada v Ecuador June 1st! Finally announced! Ticket info for our section forthcoming!

Let's make this friendly an even better turnout than for Peru match!

This x 100!

Can't wait.

Ageroo
04-07-2011, 06:20 AM
Can't wait for the CMNT tune up in June......this will probably be a preview of the starting lineup vs. The States.....quality opponent. Now let's get out and support the boys......

Workie
04-07-2011, 06:22 AM
Canada v Ecuador June 1st! Finally announced! Ticket info for our section forthcoming!

Let's make this friendly an even better turnout than for Peru match!

YES!!!! Now will the kits be here intime?:drinking:

Huyton
04-07-2011, 06:29 AM
Think DeRo will be playing in this game?

keem-o-sabi
04-07-2011, 06:32 AM
coed girls 1 (http://guyism.com/celebrities/jessica-jane-clement-nuts-pictures-photos.html/attachment/jessica-jane-clement-photos-nuts-001) and 2 (http://guyism.com/celebrities/laura-dore-pics-maxim-sweetie-cyanide.html)

Technorgasm
04-07-2011, 06:35 AM
Notice the scarf! TFC's biggest fan in the political Area
(and for hater Canadian_Bhoy. . . he speaks from St Andrews in Scotland!)

http://www.nowtoronto.com/_assets/daily/News1617LA_millerpx468.jpg

http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=180024

Fast-forward to green
Lessons in sustainability for T.O. from a fabled Scottish golf course

scooter
04-07-2011, 07:01 AM
mornin d

BeerBaron95
04-07-2011, 07:09 AM
Notice the scarf! TFC's biggest fan in the political Area
(and for hater Canadian_Bhoy. . . he speaks from St Andrews in Scotland!)

http://www.nowtoronto.com/_assets/daily/News1617LA_millerpx468.jpg

http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=180024

Fast-forward to green
Lessons in sustainability for T.O. from a fabled Scottish golf course

Only reason i envy Miller in that pic is cause I would give my left nut and first born child to step foot on St. Andrews and play there ;)

Ageroo
04-07-2011, 07:32 AM
Only reason i envy Miller in that pic is cause I would give my left nut and first born child to step foot on St. Andrews and play there ;)

You play Golf Mario......I thought you only knew how to light flares.....:D

Ageroo
04-07-2011, 07:33 AM
Think DeRo will be playing in this game?

If he is fit and playing well.....I think for sure. As far as I know he is still a fixture on the CMNT.

Fort York Redcoat
04-07-2011, 07:39 AM
Think DeRo will be playing in this game?

Absolutely. I mean I want him to. It would take some of the sting out of his next club visit in Oct.

BeerBaron95
04-07-2011, 07:42 AM
You play Golf Mario......I thought you only knew how to light flares.....:D

I absolutely play golf brother, its become an obsession lol


Flares ???... what are these 'flares' u speak of?
:D ;)
:flare:

Ageroo
04-07-2011, 07:53 AM
Looks like the Canadian U20 squad isn't the only one disappointed..... The U.S. squad lost to Guatemala 2-1 in their quarter final match and missed qualification as well....Both squads had good tournaments, but I am glad we lost to Mexico as opposed to the States losing to Guatemala.

lobo
04-07-2011, 07:57 AM
Hassli ripped off his jersey after scoring and threw it into the crowd, resulting in his second yellow card of the game -- despite only coming on at the start of the second half -- and received an automatic red.
Whitecaps midfielder Gershon Koffie had been ejected in the first half for what was deemed a flagrant foul which resulted in Hassli's insertion.
hassli is a thinking man's DP, eh?

wow.

Detroit_TFC
04-07-2011, 07:58 AM
Looks like the Canadian U20 squad isn't the only one disappointed..... The U.S. squad lost to Guatemala 2-1 in their quarter final match and missed qualification as well....Both squads had good tournaments, but I am glad we lost to Mexico as opposed to the States losing to Guatemala.

Lots of US supporters bitching about coach Rongen now. Fact is the purpose of U20s is to develop players for senior squad and and getting to U20 world cups is not necessarily a measurement of that.

Ageroo
04-07-2011, 08:33 AM
Lots of US supporters bitching about coach Rongen now. Fact is the purpose of U20s is to develop players for senior squad and and getting to U20 world cups is not necessarily a measurement of that.

Very true, but experience against international competition at a higher level can only help development.....

Ageroo
04-07-2011, 08:35 AM
YES!!!! Now will the kits be here intime?:drinking:

My source is saying that new CMNT merchandise will be available at this match......so save your pennies. :D

pekduck
04-07-2011, 08:40 AM
My source is saying that new CMNT merchandise will be available at this match......so save your pennies. :D

hmm.. whose name to get.....:rolleyes:

fergiejr
04-07-2011, 08:56 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/04/07/revolution-whitec-0/

Did I read that right? 3 ejections in the Vancouver game? Apparently that ref knew where his cards were ...

rocker
04-07-2011, 08:59 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/04/07/revolution-whitec-0/

Did I read that right? 3 ejections in the Vancouver game? Apparently that ref knew where his cards were ...

Hassli basically ejected himself. LOL. I think it was too cold and he wanted to get back to the dressing room immediately.

Parkdale
04-07-2011, 09:09 AM
back to the locker room issue:
This just shows that in our league, ratings and media relations trump everything.

Fort York Redcoat
04-07-2011, 09:14 AM
Well that and Garber wants everyone to respect his authoritah..

Technorgasm
04-07-2011, 09:15 AM
I already have a team Canada Track top. . . . . . ya. . eat it.

ps - I HATE how VWC seem to ahve SOOOo much more Broadcast time then TFC. . it is really starting to IRK me. .
BIG TIME.

Parkdale
04-07-2011, 09:17 AM
Well that and Garber wants everyone to respect his authoritah..


Just put the players into a different locker room at BMO, and keep one guy in the actual 'media access' room - and let him do all the talking.


Paging Rohan Rickets

Alixir
04-07-2011, 09:26 AM
Sure let the media in the locker room....if I was Winter I would instruct my players to say "no comment till I am on the bike" Press can still go in the locker room as per leagues stupidest rule, but they just don't get their story till after the players cool down.

Ageroo
04-07-2011, 09:31 AM
I already have a team Canada Track top. . . . . . ya. . eat it.

But do you have the new Umbro black CMNT collared pullover.....:D Eat that......

Darlofletch
04-07-2011, 09:38 AM
Hassli basically ejected himself. LOL. I think it was too cold and he wanted to get back to the dressing room immediately.

to pull that shit when you're already on a yellow and toledo shown he's in a card happy mood, is just crazy. presumably he though as he had anohter shirt on underneath it'd be ok. dumbass.

I'm curious as to just how many shirts he had on. was he wearing 4 shirts in case he got a hat-trick?

TorCanSoc
04-07-2011, 09:41 AM
What a move by Hassli. Had a short sleeve jersey, under his long sleeve jersey. He threw it into the crowd after his PK goal. Gets tossed for removing his shirt. What's the ruling on that one? I think Hassli was being creative, he knows removing his shirt is a yellow card offense.

Did he or didn't he? If knew how to use the polls, I'd create one for this. Interesting and cool. Vancouver's having all the fun this year.

p.s. RPB golf tournament anyone?

Yagbod
04-07-2011, 09:42 AM
Re: Van game last night. It was the same crazy ref we had against chivas.

rocker
04-07-2011, 09:46 AM
What a move by Hassli. Had a short sleeve jersey, under his long sleeve jersey. He threw it into the crowd after his PK goal. Gets tossed for removing his shirt. What's the ruling on that one? I think Hassli was being creative, he knows removing his shirt is a yellow card offense.

Removing your shirt is a yellow. He removed his shirt so that's a yellow. The undershirt doesn't negate the fact that he removed the shirt he had on top.

fiji_blue
04-07-2011, 09:47 AM
He already had a yellow before removing his shirt

Beach_Red
04-07-2011, 09:50 AM
back to the locker room issue:
This just shows that in our league, ratings and media relations trump everything.

Is there some league that's okay with lower ratings and poor media relations?

What it shows is that soccer is still a hard sell in the US. The biggest story this year is a locked out NFL player joining a reserve team.

It would be good if the league could market itself better, if it could market the product first, and maybe it's headed in that direction but it has a long way to go.

BS1327
04-07-2011, 09:59 AM
Re: Van game last night. It was the same crazy ref we had against chivas.

Yeah, it was Toledo!

That explains everything right there.

Parkdale
04-07-2011, 10:02 AM
Is there some league that's okay with lower ratings and poor media relations?

What it shows is that soccer is still a hard sell in the US. The biggest story this year is a locked out NFL player joining a reserve team.

It would be good if the league could market itself better, if it could market the product first, and maybe it's headed in that direction but it has a long way to go.


it's a 'sizzle vs steak' issue.

Plus the rest of the world still seems to dedicate pages and pages to coverage without having locker room access. Sure in North America the press seems to think they need 'absolute access' to cover the stories, but the rest of the world seems to do alright as they are.

and we all remember the embarrassment / harassment / stupidity that came out of 'locker room access' here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1313119/Female-reporter-New-York-Jets-sexism-scandal-asking-claims-Fox-sportscaster.html)

*link contains 'painted on jeans'

Beach_Red
04-07-2011, 10:07 AM
it's a 'sizzle vs steak' issue.

Plus the rest of the world still seems to dedicate pages and pages to coverage without having locker room access. Sure in North America the press seems to think they need 'absolute access' to cover the stories, but the rest of the world seems to do alright as they are.

and we all remember the embarrassment / harassment / stupidity that came out of 'locker room access' here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1313119/Female-reporter-New-York-Jets-sexism-scandal-asking-claims-Fox-sportscaster.html)

*link contains 'painted on jeans'

Ha, yeah I almost used the selling the sizzle line. Of course that's the issue. And a lot of what happens is determined by the competition - this case other NA leagues. Americans don't care about how the rest of the world does things, we know that, so what to do about it?

It's also a tough sell when it's referred to as "culture." Americans are never too keen on Europeans pushing their "culture" on America.

However we feel about that isn't the issue, it's what the marketing department is up against. The question won't be, "They don't do it in Europe, why should we do it here?" it'll be, "Every other league here does it, why can't this one?"

Joe Kool
04-07-2011, 10:12 AM
Hassli basically ejected himself. LOL. I think it was too cold and he wanted to get back to the dressing room immediately.

Couldn't have happened to a better team. Not that I necessarily want a fellow Canadian team to falter but I have been hearing crap from relatives in Vancouver ever since the opener so I smile a bit every time Hassli gets himself sent off.

TFC Cityboy
04-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Toledo's goal in life is to make Mark Clattenburg look like Pierluigi Collina.

Alixir
04-07-2011, 10:21 AM
Couldn't have happened to a better team. Not that I necessarily want a fellow Canadian team to falter but I have been hearing crap from relatives in Vancouver ever since the opener so I smile a bit every time Hassli gets himself sent off.I am not a Whitecaps, but anytime they can take points from an eastern conference team I will be happy.

ensco
04-07-2011, 10:28 AM
Well, I only watched the Game in 6, but it seems like Phelan's a pretty important player for the Revs. Involved in lots of play, great ball from him on the equalizer.

Imagine grooming a high draft pick for a couple of years until he's ready. What's that about?

Gazza
04-07-2011, 10:33 AM
hassli is a thinking man's DP, eh?

wow.

I couldn't believe my eyes when i saw that happen live. He truly must've believed he would get away with it because he had another shirt under the one he tossed in the crowd.

What a maroon.

Yohan
04-07-2011, 10:36 AM
Well, I only watched the Game in 6, but it seems like Phelan's a pretty important player for the Revs. Involved in lots of play, great ball from him on the equalizer.

Imagine grooming a high draft pick for a couple of years until he's ready. What's that about?
Steve Nicol knows how to get max out of a lot of average players. he gave Phelan a lot of time to play, despite how shitty Phelan played at times

ryan
04-07-2011, 10:39 AM
I couldn't believe my eyes when i saw that happen live. He truly must've believed he would get away with it because he had another shirt under the one he tossed in the crowd.

What a maroon.

Well basically if they ref didn't see the act as it happened, he wouldn't have noticed would he?

Beach_Red
04-07-2011, 10:39 AM
Steve Nicol knows how to get max out of a lot of average players. he gave Phelan a lot of time to play, despite how shitty Phelan played at times

Nicol's in a very secure position. He can manage as though he has a job for life. Makes a big difference.

ginkster88
04-07-2011, 10:40 AM
I'm curious to see how Winter stands his ground on this one, because you know he will. Remember how he handled the Cann interview after he left and then came back?

Wull
04-07-2011, 10:42 AM
I'm curious to see how Winter stands his ground on this one, because you know he will. Remember how he handled the Cann interview after he left and then came back?

from what I heard the dressing room will be open but the guys will be doing a warm-down on the bikes in the gym

spark
04-07-2011, 10:44 AM
Imagine grooming a high draft pick for a couple of years until he's ready. What's that about?

Hey I want my allocation money NOW!!

You sound like some fruity futurist.

Gazza
04-07-2011, 10:50 AM
Well basically if they ref didn't see the act as it happened, he wouldn't have noticed would he?

"waaaaaiiit a second, weren't you wearing long sleeves a minute ago?"

ginkster88
04-07-2011, 10:50 AM
I'd love to see the team stand behind their man, let him close the doors and cover any fines that he incurs.

Oldtimer
04-07-2011, 11:07 AM
from what I heard the dressing room will be open but the guys will be doing a warm-down on the bikes in the gym


:thumbsup: He'll follow the league rules but won't be pushed around.

Roogsy
04-07-2011, 11:10 AM
from what I heard the dressing room will be open but the guys will be doing a warm-down on the bikes in the gym

Paul B stated that yesterday.

I think it's perfectly reasonable and it falls within the rules.

Whoop
04-07-2011, 11:14 AM
Warm down or cool down? LOL

Ossington Mental Youth
04-07-2011, 11:46 AM
Nicol's in a very secure position. He can manage as though he has a job for life. Makes a big difference.

nobodies rushing to work for Kraft, cant say i blame em.


from what I heard the dressing room will be open but the guys will be doing a warm-down on the bikes in the gym

Good tactic, have the guys warm down after the game, answer questions, then go to the locker room once the full 45 is up.

Darlofletch
04-07-2011, 12:26 PM
I'd love to see the team stand behind their man, let him close the doors and cover any fines that he incurs.

anyone think that's what all this is really about.

winter must have known this would happen. was it a ploy to get team spirit up, an "us against the world" kind of thing?

TFCRegina
04-07-2011, 01:04 PM
hmm.. whose name to get.....:rolleyes:

Josh Simpson or Atiba Hutchinson!

TFCRegina
04-07-2011, 01:06 PM
Toledo's goal in life is to make Mark Clattenburg look like Pierluigi Collina.

And my goal in life is to make Paul Romer look like David Ricardo!

Yay for name dropping!

ACSertL
04-07-2011, 01:51 PM
I remember a few years back Mladen Petric, then of Borussia Dortmund, hammered a wonder volley into the net. He took off his shirt only to reveal another one underneath...I can't recall him getting booked for it.

I guess context of the match plays extremely heavily into how the rules are administered.

[/captainobvious]

ManUtd4ever
04-07-2011, 03:00 PM
from what I heard the dressing room will be open but the guys will be doing a warm-down on the bikes in the gym

That reminds me of the post game interviews with the Ottawa Senators players during the playoffs when the Leafs kicked their ass all those years.

Ah, the good old days.

FreekAce
04-07-2011, 03:28 PM
Paul B stated that yesterday.

I think it's perfectly reasonable and it falls within the rules.

pretty hilarious considering winter still has his way. all this brouhaha over nothing. so now that all the anxious journo's out there can rest well tonight, and won't have nightmares of closed lockerroom doors, perhaps they can make an attempt at, i dont know, write up something of interest.

werewolf
04-07-2011, 03:32 PM
My source is saying that new CMNT merchandise will be available at this match......so save your pennies. :D

Will they have the old merchandise too?

levyashin
04-07-2011, 03:37 PM
I hope that Winter will give a last minute statement to the team before going out onto the field ;We play against the opposition and THE CRAP OFFICIALS,expect nothing and keep your mouths shut,then we might only get 1 red and 3 yellow.Some one like LUKE or Jason don't have the balls to call out these M.L.S. refs but some enterprising young reporter could make his name on this subject.

DangerRed
04-07-2011, 03:39 PM
Another call for Toledo to be suspended. So fucking sick of this guy and what he's doing to the league.

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-is-a-joke-unless-it-addresses-toledo/12232

J .
04-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Toledo is the worst ref ever. I loathe him immensely.

James17930
04-07-2011, 03:59 PM
Paul B stated that yesterday.

I think it's perfectly reasonable and it falls within the rules.

I certainly hope it's that and not:

"Winter Quits, Cites League Interference" . . .

Roogsy
04-07-2011, 04:17 PM
pretty hilarious considering winter still has his way. all this brouhaha over nothing. so now that all the anxious journo's out there can rest well tonight, and won't have nightmares of closed lockerroom doors, perhaps they can make an attempt at, i dont know, write up something of interest.


My point was never that Winter should not have his way, it's that he should do it within the rules. Personally I found all the support for dismissing league rules to be childish. I am all for people standing up for themselves, always within the rules that are at their disposal. It is obvious now that Winter is perfectly able to abide by the league rules AND influence his locker the way he deems fit.

And I highly doubt this was about "anxious journos". This is about setting a bad precedent. The league wants journalists to cover the teams. Guess what? That's for us fans. And you don't achieve that by making it harder for them or being inconsistent with them from team to team and city to city. This is NOT Europe where the journalists are climbing over each other to cover teams, this is MLS where some cities barely get coverage at all. Of course the league is going to side with journalists. And the reaction to guys like John on this board were extremely ungrateful. We have invited and encouraged John to be on here to help us promote soccer in Canada and add to the discussion and instead he was attacked and ridiculed. It wouldn't surprise me if he did what others like Paul B have done and simply stopped visiting this board. And we'd be less benefitted by it. It seems to be a pattern with TFC fans that we like to bite off our nose to spite our face.


I certainly hope it's that and not:

"Winter Quits, Cites League Interference" . . .

I'd be more concerned if Winter was the right guy for the job if that was his reaction.

James17930
04-07-2011, 04:37 PM
^He wouldn't be the first.

Jeffro
04-07-2011, 04:39 PM
And the reaction to guys like John on this board were extremely ungrateful. We have invited and encouraged John to be on here to help us promote soccer in Canada and add to the discussion and instead he was attacked and ridiculed. It wouldn't surprise me if he did what others like Paul B have done and simply stopped visiting this board. And we'd be less benefitted by it. It seems to be a pattern with TFC fans that we like to bite off our nose to spite our face.

.


To be fair, sadly it's the culture of this board to attack and ridicule anybody one may disagree with, not sure why media and FO people should be exempt.

Roogsy
04-07-2011, 04:41 PM
To be fair, sadly it's the culture of this board to attack and ridicule anybody one may disagree with, not sure why media and FO people should be exempt.

This is sadly true. Unfortunately I know the mods have struggled with balancing the freeness of speech issue and letting people voice their opinions freely and the atmosphere on this board with the lack of civility with each other. If people continue in this pattern, I don't think they will have much choice but to clamp down and that is not beneficial for free and open dialogue on the sport we love.

Pigfynn
04-07-2011, 04:53 PM
Free speech on a message board with a defined purpose and paid for by membership dues is privilege not a right

spark
04-07-2011, 05:00 PM
Another call for Toledo to be suspended. So fucking sick of this guy and what he's doing to the league.

http://www.majorleaguesoccertalk.com/mls-is-a-joke-unless-it-addresses-toledo/12232

The funny thing (that's not funny at all) is Iain Hume almost DIES from the most obvious and flagrant elbow to the head from Chris Morgan, and he didn't even get a card *edit he got a yellow*, suspension - nothing.

CretanBull
04-07-2011, 05:15 PM
Free speech on a message board with a defined purpose and paid for by membership dues is privilege not a right

AMEN!

CretanBull
04-07-2011, 05:21 PM
And the reaction to guys like John on this board were extremely ungrateful. We have invited and encouraged John to be on here to help us promote soccer in Canada and add to the discussion and instead he was attacked and ridiculed.

I wonder if the people who were disrespectful treat the guests in their homes the same way?

Some people need to be reminded that guys like J-Mo, Paul B etc. come here for our benefit - not theirs. Our problem might be that too many people around here don't care about our benefit.

dow117
04-07-2011, 05:42 PM
What a move by Hassli. Had a short sleeve jersey, under his long sleeve jersey. He threw it into the crowd after his PK goal. Gets tossed for removing his shirt. What's the ruling on that one? I think Hassli was being creative, he knows removing his shirt is a yellow card offense.

Did he or didn't he? If knew how to use the polls, I'd create one for this. Interesting and cool. Vancouver's having all the fun this year.

p.s. RPB golf tournament anyone?

RU kidding, the call by Toledo was unbelievable. Taking the shirt off means the ref cannot see the number and that is an offence... but he had the number on his other shirt... and the game was not delayed : Otherwise all goal celebrations should be a yellow.

Someone posted some time ago that Toledo of the MLS handed out more red cards than any ref in other world leagues. The guy ruins games and Van should be really pissed that it cost them 2 points.

MLS needs to rein in this showboating clown !!!

ensco
04-07-2011, 05:57 PM
I wonder if the people who were disrespectful treat the guests in their homes the same way?

Some people need to be reminded that guys like J-Mo, Paul B etc. come here for our benefit - not theirs. Our problem might be that too many people around here don't care about our benefit.

I totally agree re journalists. We share their mission, mostly. They occasionally do silly things to sell papers, but mostly they're interested in the truth.

I totally disagree re Paul Beirne. He came here to advance his interests, which were often not aligned with ours.

denime
04-07-2011, 06:02 PM
I wonder if the people who were disrespectful treat the guests in their homes the same way?

Some people need to be reminded that guys like J-Mo, Paul B etc. come here for our benefit - not theirs. Our problem might be that too many people around here don't care about our benefit.


I totally agree re journalists. We share their mission, mostly. They occasionally do silly things to sell papers, but mostly they're interested in the truth.

I totally disagree re Paul Beirne. He is still coming here to advance his interests, which were often not aligned with ours.

FIXED !!

MG42
04-07-2011, 06:03 PM
I totally agree re journalists. We share their mission, mostly. They occasionally do silly things to sell papers, but mostly they're interested in the truth.

I totally disagree re Paul Beirne. He came here to advance his interests, which were often not aligned with ours.

absolutely.

Gazza
04-07-2011, 06:18 PM
The elbow to the head was indeed a red card. I think Toledo is the worst professional ref i've ever seen, but that was the only call to make. Even an accidental elbow to the head is a red card.

jloome
04-07-2011, 06:36 PM
I wonder if the people who were disrespectful treat the guests in their homes the same way?

Some people need to be reminded that guys like J-Mo, Paul B etc. come here for our benefit - not theirs. Our problem might be that too many people around here don't care about our benefit.

This is absolutely not the case. They're here for their benefit, first and foremost. As a media person of some 20 years, I can tell you that media people would not hang out here and chat with you if they weren't getting something back for it, unless they were just fans.

And Paul B entirely benefited from his relationship on here, being able to use it to try and shape perspectives on his club.

Having said that, an ulterior motive does not equal "you suck, bastards!" every time you disagree with them.

There are two sides to civility.

Redcoe15
04-08-2011, 02:50 AM
Toledo is the worst ref ever. I loathe him immensely.
Not suprising, considering he has the same dirtbag name of a dirtbag city in dirtbag Ohio! :D