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View Full Version : Stefan Frei: TFC DP#2?



jmorgs88
04-05-2011, 12:45 AM
Just a thought, perhaps it would be worth paying him some big bucks and locking him into a long-term contract (if he was open to that)...great keeper already with plenty of upside potential...could establish one position on TFC that wont be in a rebuilding stage for the many years to come?

Of all the players currently on the squad the one who would hurt us the most if they were gone....Stefan Frei

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2011, 12:53 AM
I'd be open to considering it, if it was necessary to retain him down the road. I doubt it would be, though.

Not sure that a great goalkeeper is really a good use of a DP slot. How many extra wins a season do you think we'd get with a DP goalkeeper, versus a good non-DP one?

- Scott

Waggy
04-05-2011, 12:54 AM
Just a thought, perhaps it would be worth paying him some big bucks and locking him into a long-term contract (if he was open to that)...great keeper already with plenty of upside potential...could establish one position on TFC that wont be in a rebuilding stage for the many years to come?

Of all the players currently on the squad the one who would hurt us the most if they were gone....Stefan Frei


I love Frei, he's my favorite Red, but a goalie isn't valuable enough to a soccer team to be worth one of 2 or 3 designated player spots or the financial implications that'd go with it.

TFCRegina
04-05-2011, 01:00 AM
Just a thought, perhaps it would be worth paying him some big bucks and locking him into a long-term contract (if he was open to that)...great keeper already with plenty of upside potential...could establish one position on TFC that wont be in a rebuilding stage for the many years to come?

Of all the players currently on the squad the one who would hurt us the most if they were gone....Stefan Frei

Frei will probably stay with us for one or two more years. If he went to Europe right now, he'd be sitting on the bench behind someone older and not getting any experience. Better to play and take less now, for bigger payoffs later. Keepers have much longer careers than other players.

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2011, 01:09 AM
I still don't think it's a given that he goes to Europe.

- Scott

CretanBull
04-05-2011, 01:26 AM
I think that would be an insane move. Nothing against Frei, but the one thing that there's an abundance of in the MLS is solid keepers - its the easiest and cheapest position to replace. Also, with keepers tending to develop later than other players the NCAA actually does a pretty good job of producing keepers.

DichioTFC
04-05-2011, 01:48 AM
^ Totally agree. We overrate Frei, he's not even the best keeper in the MLS.

North America will always supply great keepers. We don't need to DP Frei.

Cashcleaner
04-05-2011, 05:25 AM
I think that would be an insane move. Nothing against Frei, but the one thing that there's an abundance of in the MLS is solid keepers - its the easiest and cheapest position to replace. Also, with keepers tending to develop later than other players the NCAA actually does a pretty good job of producing keepers.

Before I mulled around the idea of maybe picking up a world-class DP keeper, but after seeing the state of the league over the years I'd have to agree with you 100% on this. The overall talent level of MLS isn't all that great compared to the larger leagues the rest of the world is familiar with (ie: EPL, LA Liga, Serie A), but I'd agree that keepers here are a bit of an exception to that.

Though I disagree with Nav, here. I think Frei is absolutely deserving of so much of the praise we give him.

Shakes McQueen
04-05-2011, 05:33 AM
I think Frei is a great keeper, and definitely my favourite Red at the moment, but I also recognize that his talents probably aren't worth the salary implications that would come with a DP designation.

The difference between a good non-DP keeper and a great DP keeper just won't be that big in terms of the standings. You could certainly get more bang for your buck by using that slot on a striker, or even something like a wing back.

- Scott

boban
04-05-2011, 05:35 AM
^ Totally agree. We overrate Frei, he's not even the best keeper in the MLS.

North America will always supply great keepers. We don't need to DP Frei.
This.

Juanito
04-05-2011, 08:06 AM
I would hate to lose him. I think he can become a GREAT keeper. Many people said Howard was balls, and to me, he is a top five in the world, definitely top ten.

Frei, has had ZERO defence, and has kept us in matches single-handedly. I hope that we can lock him up long-term. DP would be a tough sell though.

Fort York Redcoat
04-05-2011, 08:08 AM
No thank you. Great keeper but keepers and defenders do not need to be DP's.

Nuvinho
04-05-2011, 08:13 AM
What??? DP for goalie?? crazy talk.

Darlofletch
04-05-2011, 08:15 AM
definitely not. he's good, but he's not as good as we sometimes make him out to be, and not THAT much better than the average mls goalie. I'd love for him to stay but wouldn't be thinking anywhere near dp wages.

Jenkins12
04-05-2011, 08:19 AM
With De Rosario gone, I think if we were to have a 2nd DP it would be for an attaking player maybe Robert Pires

KGH
04-05-2011, 08:31 AM
North America will always supply great keepers.

Do we have a supply of great keepers ?

or

Is it the lack of talent in strikers and forwards that make a group of average keepers look great?

menefreghista
04-05-2011, 08:33 AM
I would have rather kept De Rosario and made him a DP than make Frei a DP.

sashavukelich
04-05-2011, 08:45 AM
^ Totally agree. We overrate Frei, he's not even the best keeper in the MLS.

North America will always supply great keepers. We don't need to DP Frei.

nailed it.

I see Ricketts of LA as the best keeper in the league. Busch of SJ is also class.

trane
04-05-2011, 09:54 AM
I think Frei is a great keeper, and definitely my favourite Red at the moment, but I also recognize that his talents probably aren't worth the salary implications that would come with a DP designation.

The difference between a good non-DP keeper and a great DP keeper just won't be that big in terms of the standings. You could certainly get more bang for your buck by using that slot on a striker, or even something like a wing back.

- Scott

Agreed, in terms of the realities of this league almost any position can have a bigger impact then the keeper. Clearly the more central the role the bigger potential.

Whoop
04-05-2011, 10:12 AM
I think that would be an insane move. Nothing against Frei, but the one thing that there's an abundance of in the MLS is solid keepers - its the easiest and cheapest position to replace. Also, with keepers tending to develop later than other players the NCAA actually does a pretty good job of producing keepers.


^ Totally agree. We overrate Frei, he's not even the best keeper in the MLS.

North America will always supply great keepers. We don't need to DP Frei.

Agreed.

Parkdale
04-05-2011, 10:17 AM
yeah.... this is crazy talk.


Pay the man a very nice salary, and all the bonuses & perks MLSE can legally throw his way... but a DP slot is bonkers.


*unless Mr.Fantastic is a real person
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_P9MrfY_J-aE/S9KI_ay6OuI/AAAAAAAAAD0/Eu0YPYS_bIQ/s1600/MrFantasticAd.gif

Lucky Strike
04-05-2011, 10:19 AM
I think overall, it's not a disrespect to his abilities that he shouldn't receive DP money, but more that the said money could be better used elsewhere.

Menelaos
04-05-2011, 10:21 AM
I think overall, it's not a disrespect to his abilities that he shouldn't receive DP money, but more that the said money could be better used elsewhere.

Well put.

If he was paid as one of the better keepers in the MLS and he saw the team using the DP slots to get players to win, I am sure he'd be on board.

ensco
04-05-2011, 10:27 AM
Frei has real work to do on crosses and handling balls in the air, it's a huge hole in his game

(I am not the person who first pointed this out)

Detroit_TFC
04-05-2011, 10:30 AM
Frei is very important for us but not irreplaceable. I would seriously entertain the idea of a DP center back, considering how miserable our defense has been.

jmorgs88
04-05-2011, 10:30 AM
well i agree...just thought id post the idea to see what everyone thought...as long as we can hold onto him long enough that if he eventually goes to europe we have adequate replacement then our best use for a DP imo is a poaching striker

Carts
04-05-2011, 10:32 AM
In my opinion, as important as a great keeper is, in this league using a DP spot on a keeper, any keeper, isn't worth it...

With the poor defence, and disorganization that we see on a regular basis, you could have two keepers in goal and not keep enough out to warrant it...

Clean strikes from 6-yards out are the reg in the MLS, a DP might stop some, but not nearly enough...

3-on-0's happen at times - Superman probably isn't stopping it...

If you spend on 3-DP's that put the ball in the net - and help the entire team work better as a unit - I think a strong salary (under or at $400k) would keep most capable keepers on this side of the pond...

If they're good enough to go to one of the big boys (top leagues) - they'll go no matter what the pay, b/c they know if it fails they can come back...

Carts...

Parkdale
04-05-2011, 10:34 AM
3-on-0's happen at times - Superman probably isn't stopping it...


Mr. Fantastic would accept that challenge!

Carts
04-05-2011, 10:53 AM
Mr. Fantastic would accept that challenge!

Have you slipped up...???

Its YOUR secret identity isn't it..??? :D

"Martina Scores - PARKDALE Saves"

ryan
04-05-2011, 11:46 AM
Has he not openly said he wants to go to Europe?

Also, a keeper's career peak (correct me if I'm wrong) is 30-35 or so? And he's only how old now?

DichioTFC
04-05-2011, 11:53 AM
Though I disagree with Nav, here. I think Frei is absolutely deserving of so much of the praise we give him.

I love Frei, I think he's great for our team. But its hard to sell to me that he's a DP. Ricketts and Rimando are both better keepers. I'm sure we'll sell him to a Euro club in the future for $1M or so, but that's just as much because of his EU passport at it is about his talent.


Do we have a supply of great keepers ?

or

Is it the lack of talent in strikers and forwards that make a group of average keepers look great?

We do not have a great supply of keepers (haven't seen Kocic enough to make such a statement), but the NCAA / MLS draft has proven to supply pretty good keepers.

I'd argue its the lack of defensive talent that make average keepers look great. The ideal physical type for a defender (tall, strong, large frame) end up playing in the NFL or NBA, which makes for second-rate MLS defenders. I'm sure that too will improve with time, but currently, quality North American defenders are pretty rare.

maninb
04-05-2011, 11:56 AM
With De Rosario gone, I think if we were to have a 2nd DP it would be for an attaking player maybe Robert Pires


yeah that's what we need...an old, slow, injury-prone midfielder....I hope you were kidding...

Stryker
04-05-2011, 12:23 PM
This thread is...


http://www.premierlife.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ludacris9.jpg

Detroit_TFC
04-05-2011, 01:50 PM
natural?

or chronic?

Gazza
04-05-2011, 01:56 PM
This thread is...


http://www.premierlife.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ludacris9.jpg

The thread is washed-up? Untalented? On Crack?

On topic, while Frei is an excellent MLS keeper, it would not benefit us to use up another DP slot on a goalie.

BayernTFC
04-05-2011, 04:12 PM
Do we have a supply of great keepers ?

or

Is it the lack of talent in strikers and forwards that make a group of average keepers look great?
This is an excellent point. You may find a decent answer to your question by watching how Faryd Mondragón performs for Philadelphia. One of the worst players in the first half of the 2010/2011 Bundesliga season. 1. FC Köln are much better off with Michael Rensing, and it shows.

CretanBull
04-05-2011, 05:26 PM
^ But the NCAA/MLS does produce top quality keepers...of all the players that have left our league, its the keepers who have done the best in Europe Tim Howard, Brad Freidel, Marcus Hahnemann, Brad Guzan etc.

Suds
04-05-2011, 06:38 PM
I love Frei as our goalie and a class player to have in our organization. But DP status? No.

His value to the team is pretty high so TFC would need to be thinking about having his salary in the top group of players. He's in a good spot for career development (starter, playing many games). I think as long as he feels he is developing as a player he will be here for a couple more years at minimum. Beyond that is when I think he will start thinking about the next step in moving his career along.

BayernTFC
04-05-2011, 07:14 PM
^ But the NCAA/MLS does produce top quality keepers...
I do not disagree at all. The comments were based on the question of supply. Every team in the league will not find a starting keeper from the NCAA all at the same time.


of all the players that have left our league, its the keepers who have done the best in Europe Tim Howard, Brad Freidel, Marcus Hahnemann, Brad Guzan etc.
Those are all excellent examples. All of those players spent time with the National team before getting their break. Brad Friedel spent time with Newcastle United, Brøndby and Galatasaray before being employed in MLS.

Watching Faryd Mondragón is more of an indication of the quality of offensive talent in MLS, rather than quality of other MLS keepers.

2mil4dero+santo
04-05-2011, 07:26 PM
^ But the NCAA/MLS does produce top quality keepers...of all the players that have left our league, its the keepers who have done the best in Europe Tim Howard, Brad Freidel, Marcus Hahnemann, Brad Guzan etc.

...Casey Keller....

69Chevy396
04-05-2011, 07:44 PM
Has there ever been a keeper DP? I doubt MLS head office would support this and talk TFC out of it. There is no marketing value having a keeper dp, nobody will line up to buy a ticket to watch Frei. Whole point of the DP is to attract more Americans to the game by attracting "name" players such as Henry and Beckham. MLSE blew it I think when they went after JDG,outside of Toronto and some die hard Cdn soccer fans, nobody heard of him in North America, and nobody in Spain is naming a street after him, he is just another better than average player in a world filled with players just as good as he is, and a lot who are much better. Frei, in Europe would have trouble starting for a serie B team, and his salary would be roughly the same as what he is getting in Toronto.

KezmanCCCC
04-05-2011, 08:05 PM
i dont think frei would be down for that... he will be off to europe soon i would imagine.... plus i dont think its worth it to invest a dp spot and wages to a keeper (not saying frei isnt worth it)

Yohan
04-05-2011, 10:36 PM
Has there ever been a keeper DP? I doubt MLS head office would support this and talk TFC out of it.
No. Closest is Kasey Keller who makes about 300k IIRC.

There is no marketing value having a keeper dp, nobody will line up to buy a ticket to watch Frei. Whole point of the DP is to attract more Americans to the game by attracting "name" players such as Henry and Beckham. MLSE blew it I think when they went after JDG,outside of Toronto and some die hard Cdn soccer fans, nobody heard of him in North America, and nobody in Spain is naming a street after him, he is just another better than average player in a world filled with players just as good as he is, and a lot who are much better. Frei, in Europe would have trouble starting for a serie B team, and his salary would be roughly the same as what he is getting in Toronto.
A lot of recent DP signings says that this 'rule' is now a thing of the past. Teams will use DP spots to improve the team, not necessarily for selling tix

Yohan
04-05-2011, 10:38 PM
We do not have a great supply of keepers (haven't seen Kocic enough to make such a statement), but the NCAA / MLS draft has proven to supply pretty good keepers.
Well, good shot stoppers but not necessarily GKs... A lot of MLS keepers lack in a lot of areas such as commanding the box, distribution.


I'd argue its the lack of defensive talent that make average keepers look great. The ideal physical type for a defender (tall, strong, large frame) end up playing in the NFL or NBA, which makes for second-rate MLS defenders. I'm sure that too will improve with time, but currently, quality North American defenders are pretty rare.
seems there's one or two good MLS defenders that comes out every year.

ag futbol
04-05-2011, 10:59 PM
There are spots MLS does reasonably well with: DM, CB, and GK come to mind. That being said the offensive talent is poor enough where i wonder if we are overrating a few of them.

At times MLS defenders seem to have no concept of the game outside of raw aggression and it's rarely punished because the attackers don't have the skill to exploit it.

People come on there and attack concepts like zonal marking, technical wing play, and considerate defending because they say they aren't possible in MLS due to the style of play. I think its more like the average player in this league isn't capable of such a feat due to their limited ability, rather than these traits not being effective.

Blowing Bubbles
04-05-2011, 11:08 PM
a DP slot on a keeper is insane.

Pachuco
04-06-2011, 08:55 AM
We should make the ball boy a DP too.

Technorgasm
04-06-2011, 08:57 AM
How does Stan Gable, the NORB, The Alpha-Betas and the rrest of the Greek council vote?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HHmLdd4jVWw/TWBt2zDk4NI/AAAAAAAAAKA/qdPCeqHBf2E/s1600/stang.png

trane
04-06-2011, 10:19 AM
There are spots MLS does reasonably well with: DM, CB, and GK come to mind. That being said the offensive talent is poor enough where i wonder if we are overrating a few of them.




Gk yes, because it is a relatively indvidualisitc position that in some ways team play and Footy IQ, is not as important, as one can realy on instinct and a simple reading of the game. But CB? I think this league is terrible at developing CB's most get caught out of position on a regular, and read the game awfully, both essential qualities for the position. DMs' are somewhat better, but can use great improvements.

Both a CB of DM of realy quality, would uplift the team both on defense and offence( admitatley JDG has been a disapoinment in terms of doing this-ie getting the team organized).

rocker
04-06-2011, 10:50 AM
Teams have brought in keepers from middling leagues and done quite well with it... see Ricketts and Jimmy Nielsen with Sporting (Nielsen against Vancouver was unbelievable....). so I think resources could be better used elsewhere.

However, Keller in Seattle's first season was just unbelievable. I know he wasn't a DP, but he played on the level of what you'd get from a DP keeper. If a team had filled its 2 slots elsewhere and was satisfied with that, getting a world class DP keeper would be like putting a lock on your goal and throwing away the key.

trane
04-06-2011, 12:21 PM
^ No it would not, no keeper can stop all shots, in this league there are many too many brake aways and 3 on 1, ect.


Further, to get a trully great keeper to come over is diffcult. Keepers can play longer, and stay competitive longer in top leagues, the motivation to come over is lower.

rocker
04-06-2011, 01:11 PM
^ No it would not, no keeper can stop all shots, in this league there are many too many brake aways and 3 on 1, ect.
.

yeah, that's a metaphor ;) of course nobody stops everything.

but Keller's first season was just unbelievable. 89% save percentage... 0.43 GAA. I watched many Seattle games in his first season and he saved their butts often... almost perfect. Most goals were not his fault.

but not anymore. he's fallen off.

again, if a team already had the other parts at striker, midfield, defense and had a DP slot left, I'd sign a world class keeper. not out of the question, but only after other needs are satisfied.