Toronto FC boss Winter decides to change culture with locker room no-go

[menefreghista]

Oh, I would disagree. The locker-room isn't even a story (nobody has written about it, as far as I know). I can assure you, Dero and Winter's rebuilding process is the bigger and ONLY story right now.

Yup. This is a story in this one thread only.

[Carts]

Three TV outlets (Rogers Sportsnet, TSN, and CBC). Not to mention the number of bloggers out there.


I'd say four TV outlets - "The Score" covers the team as well...

[Whoop]

Oh, I would disagree. The locker-room isn't even a story (nobody has written about it, as far as I know). I can assure you, Dero and Winter's rebuilding process is the bigger and ONLY story right now.


Yup. This is a story in this one thread only.

I agree. But that's more of a season long thing.

No one has written about it yet but someone did go on the radio to discuss it. ;)

But leading up to the next game against SJ, the big story is still the DeRo trade but if guys aren't made available to talk about it, then the next big story is how guys aren't being made available to talk about the trade.

[Whoop]

I'd say four TV outlets - "The Score" covers the team as well...

Thanks.

I knew I was forgetting someone.

Besides, I get all the news I need here. LOL

[spark]

I think there is a bigger picture here as well that people need to consider - regardless of what side you are on with this. And John eluded to it, and I think another poster made a sort of tongue in cheek comment on how can Winter say 'No one is bigger than the team' but turn around and unilaterally decide he's going to go against league rules. So perhaps Garber is sitting there going "Hmph - No one is bigger than the league" and you know what he probably won't force him to do anything BUT what do you think will happen next time we have a Stefan Frei situation where he's not a Gen. Adidas player and the league let's us keep his status? My only concern is they might not be so friendly with us next time based on incidents like this and play hardball with league rules since we think we can pick and choose which ones to abide by.

[Roogsy]

I think there is a bigger picture here as well that people need to consider - regardless of what side you are on with this. And John eluded to it, and I think another poster made a sort of tongue in cheek comment on how can Winter say 'No one is bigger than the team' but turn around and unilaterally decide he's going to go against league rules. So perhaps Garber is sitting there going "Hmph - No on is bigger than the league" and you know what he probably won't force him to do anything BUT what do you think will happen next time we have a Stefan Frei situation where he's not a Gen. Adidas player and the league let's us keep his status? My only concern is they might not be so friendly with us next time based on incidents like this and play hardball with league rules since we think we can pick and choose which ones to abide by.

The bigger picture. Someone saw it.

[Whoop]

I think there is a bigger picture here as well that people need to consider - regardless of what side you are on with this. And John eluded to it, and I think another poster made a sort of tongue in cheek comment on how can Winter say 'No one is bigger than the team' but turn around and unilaterally decide he's going to go against league rules. So perhaps Garber is sitting there going "Hmph - No one is bigger than the league" and you know what he probably won't force him to do anything BUT what do you think will happen next time we have a Stefan Frei situation where he's not a Gen. Adidas player and the league let's us keep his status? My only concern is they might not be so friendly with us next time based on incidents like this and play hardball with league rules since we think we can pick and choose which ones to abide by.

That is a logical concern.

But that's a logical concern any time any player or coach criticizes the league or a referee as well.

Ultimately the league can do whatever it wants in relation to decisions affecting teams in regards to discipline or whether or not a team can circumvent the cap.

[MisterMacphisto]

Respectfully, you clearly haven't read any of my stuff over the past four years if you think I'm worried about "little scoops" or blowing minor matters into big stories.

I think the majority of people here know my reputation, and that I don't peddle rumours or gossip, but instead cover the team in a serious way.

John

I follow all TFC related articles and your tweets since the beginning, so that isn't a correct assumption. Respectfully, I don't think the Toronto FC soccer media has any leg to stand on to call out Winter's professionalism. That's a joke.

"Just spoke to such and such... Story to follow". How many times have we read this type of excited tweet that you have gotten a story before the stories even ready.

And speaking of stories and blowing minor matters into big stories, this whole thing about interviewing players outside the locker room, and hyperbolic statements that he's breaking the rules, that players aren't going to get interviewed, that its a slippery slope... perfect example of taking something small and blowing it big. Absolutely missing the point at what Winter is trying to do.

PS... love the first line in your latest story: "Toronto FC without the best player in club history, the future looks pretty dim. "

I've read enough of local media stories to know that many journos are more interesting in getting out stories than they are concerned for this clubs success.

[Whoop]

One thing I will defend John, or any other media out there, it's not their job to be cheerleaders for the team.

If it's negative, it's negative. If it's positive, it's positive.

[menefreghista]

One thing I will defend John, or any other media out there, it's not their job to be cheerleaders for the team.

If it's negative, it's negative. If it's positive, it's positive.

The media would write more positive stories about the team if there were more positive stories to tell.

Look at the Leafs and they won't even make the playoffs.

[v00d00daddy]

Look at the Leafs and they won't even make the playoffs.

You mean a team that is run by the biggest fuck ups in the whole world, that you've ranted against in every thread going?

How could the Leafs possibly be moving forward and getting better while being owned and run by MLSE?:rolleyes:

[menefreghista]

You mean a team that is run by the biggest fuck ups in the whole world, that you've ranted against in every thread going?

How could the Leafs possibly be moving forward and getting better while being owned and run by MLSE?:rolleyes:

You missed the point entirely.

The coverage of the Leafs is way more positive now. Because the positive stories are there.

[ManUtd4ever]

I don't see it that way. (players being fragile or creating a war)

He's trying to foster an "us vs. them" mentality, not in a negative fashion in that it's "us vs. the media" but we have to stick together as a team. The whole adage that what happens in the locker room, stays in the locker room.

I don't care if Stevanovic had it out with Maicon after the match for not passing the ball. Or if some guy breaks down in tears after costing his team a championship. The locker room is the place where you do that stuff away from prying eyes.

If any coach had their way, the locker room would always be off limits. It's more of a NA pro sports mentality that you need to get into the locker room right after a match. I know in junior hockey, for the most part, the players meet with the reporters outside the dressing room. The reporter will come down and say I want to speak with player x, y, z and said player comes out after he's done getting dressed. If it's a coach, the reporter might go into the coach's office if the coach doesn't come outside.

Fans want that glimpse of what a locker room is like and they love those shots following a championship where the reporter gets drenched in champagne.

I've been on the side of the team being transparent, but not when it comes to post game locker room interviews. Like I've said, the big stories don't happen on game days.

People are acting like this is the first time something like this has happened in the history of sports. And making this a way bigger story than it is, but that's natural for this board. LOL

Bang on.

[ryan]

I don't think John or any other media care where the interviews are held. I don't think anyone really believes they will get better tidbits of info in the locker room that they won't get in the gym.

What we are talking about here is Winter flagrantly disregarding a league rule. Just because you don't agree with the rule you think it's ok that he intentionally chooses to violate it? That's ridiculous. If we all got to pick and choose what rules, laws and principles to follow then this world would be crazier than it already is.

John and other media simply want consistency and a level playing field that all reporters across the league are using. If they get locker room access, so should Toronto media. If the league wants to do away with the rule and let clubs decide for themselves, I don't think they'd like it, but I doubt they'd be as insistent that the locker room be opened.

Your adherence to the law is a bit absurd.

Have you ever jaywalked? Broke a speed limit? Drunk in public? Smoked a joint? Lane changed without signalling? Etc.

Laws or neither right or wrong, they are just rules. Rules sometimes need to be changed and Winter is trying to prove that they can be changed while still providing the same intent (post game player access) of the original rule.

I'm not sure why you're so hell bent on sucking on rules, but it's a bit mental if you ask me.

[johnmolinaro]

"Just spoke to such and such... Story to follow". How many times have we read this type of excited tweet that you have gotten a story before the stories even ready.

I've read enough of local media stories to know that many journos are more interesting in getting out stories than they are concerned for this clubs success.

That qualifies as an "excited tweet"? Really? I could see your point if I tweeted something like "Just spoke to Dero. You won't believe what he told me."

But something like "Just spoke to Frei. Will file a story shortly" is the very definition of tame and just letting TFC fans know to look out for my story.

Also, not my job to be concerned about club's success. It's my job to report on it - although, as a longtime soccer fan and resident of this city, I would like to see the team be successful.

JM

[Beach_Red]

That is a logical concern.

But that's a logical concern any time any player or coach criticizes the league or a referee as well.

Ultimately the league can do whatever it wants in relation to decisions affecting teams in regards to discipline or whether or not a team can circumvent the cap.


But we know MLS is "special," and that a lot depends on how much the owner-partners back up their players and coaches. We know that what happens in NY and LA isn't the same as what happens elsewhere.

What we want to know is if Toronto is the same category as NY or LA or not?

[ryan]

One thing I will defend John, or any other media out there, it's not their job to be cheerleaders for the team.

If it's negative, it's negative. If it's positive, it's positive.

However in Toronto, it's almost always negative even when success is found.

This is why NOBODY is celebrating the fact that we scored a goal in 3 consecutive matches and earned a point on the weekend, even while we continue to revamp the roster at the same time. Our players don't even know each other yet we're scoring and getting points, but who cares cause that's good stuff!

Instead it's we failed to win, we screwed up, Santos is a bum, we need DeRo, TFC's a joke, blah blah blah.

This isn't a shot at John or other Toronto media in this thread, but Toronto media SUCKS to read. Ever watch the Reporters talk about MLS? It makes me want to barf it's so pathetic. I mean, can they be any more negative?

[v00d00daddy]

You missed the point entirely.

The coverage of the Leafs is way more positive now. Because the positive stories are there.

And postive stories are there becauase competent people were brought in to run the Leafs.

The same people who brought in Winter and Mariner.

And by the way. There ARE positive stories surrounding this team. They've made some good additions this year.

They're just not talked about because scandal and negativity sell more papers (garner more hits) and cause more discussion.

The mere fact that we're talking about this stupid media access issue over anything other than DeRo is proof of that.

Where are the stories about the addition of Martina, Stevanovic or the two guys we picked up from the DeRo deal.

They're mentioned in passing when the deal happened and then that's it.

For example. We've been screaming for wing players for 5 years and now we have a couple promising ones but we'd rather talk about whether or not the media gets to hang out in the TFC locker room.

We're so addicted to the drama and bullshit surrounding this club that some have actually totally disregarded the fact that we have a coach who is trying to do something completely new.

Something where he wants to implement a style that will get us wins AND entertain us.

Yet that's not good enough. We have to tell ourselves that we suck and will always suck because:

-MLSE are shit
-DeRo is gone
-TFC don't care about the league rules.


Fuck all of that. I think we've turned a corner and I'm not the only one. Unfortunately nobody who is writing about this club either:

a) shares my view
b) has the balls to write about it because it won't elicit angry discussion.

At the end of the day none of us knows what's going to happen. We've thought (in the past) that TFC might have a team that could crack the playoffs (under Carver/Cummins) but we were wrong.

Now people think this season is a write off but they could be wrong.

Honestly...this is the first time in 5 years that I'm actually optimistic about the future. If that future includes TFC skirting a bullshit MLS rule than so be it.

If the league is going to punish us in other ways because of it (which I think is a ridiculous fear but who knows) than it'll be another reason to consider this league a joke.

[denime]

I think there is a bigger picture here as well that people need to consider - regardless of what side you are on with this. And John eluded to it, and I think another poster made a sort of tongue in cheek comment on how can Winter say 'No one is bigger than the team' but turn around and unilaterally decide he's going to go against league rules. So perhaps Garber is sitting there going "Hmph - No one is bigger than the league" and you know what he probably won't force him to do anything BUT what do you think will happen next time we have a Stefan Frei situation where he's not a Gen. Adidas player and the league let's us keep his status? My only concern is they might not be so friendly with us next time based on incidents like this and play hardball with league rules since we think we can pick and choose which ones to abide by.

Winter is not going against rule,so much about BIG PICTURE.

MLS is bending rules all the time don't worry about them giving to one of 3 profitable teams in whole league a hard time.


The MLS rule is that they must open the locker-room to the media no more than 15 minutes after the game.

Punishment for breaking the rule is a fine, but I'm not sure how much it is, and if it's the coach or team who pays it.

John


As long Winter gives media access to the players within 15 minutes,media guys can complain as much as they want,MLS will not do anything.

[ManUtd4ever]

And postive stories are there becauase competent people were brought in to run the Leafs.

The same people who brought in Winter and Mariner.

And by the way. There ARE positive stories surrounding this team. They've made some good additions this year.

They're just not talked about because scandal and negativity sell more papers (garner more hits) and cause more discussion.

The mere fact that we're talking about this stupid media access issue over anything other than DeRo is proof of that.

Where are the stories about the addition of Martina, Stevanovic or the two guys we picked up from the DeRo deal.

They're mentioned in passing when the deal happened and then that's it.

For example. We've been screaming for wing players for 5 years and now we have a couple promising ones but we'd rather talk about whether or not the media gets to hang out in the TFC locker room.

We're so addicted to the drama and bullshit surrounding this club that some have actually totally disregarded the fact that we have a coach who is trying to do something completely new.

Something where he wants to implement a style that will get us wins AND entertain us.

Yet that's not good enough. We have to tell ourselves that we suck and will always suck because:

-MLSE are shit
-DeRo is gone
-TFC don't care about the league rules.


Fuck all of that. I think we've turned a corner and I'm not the only one. Unfortunately nobody who is writing about this club either:

a) shares my view
b) has the balls to write about it because it won't elicit angry discussion.

At the end of the day none of us knows what's going to happen. We've thought (in the past) that TFC might have a team that could crack the playoffs (under Carver/Cummins) but we were wrong.

Now people think this season is a write off but they could be wrong.

Honestly...this is the first time in 5 years that I'm actually optimistic about the future. If that future includes TFC skirting a bullshit MLS rule than so be it.

If the league is going to punish us in other ways because of it (which I think is a ridiculous fear but who knows) than it'll be another reason to consider this league a joke.

Well said! I don't include John Molinaro among the list of vultures in the media, but I agree wholeheartedly with all of your points.

[ryan]

v00d00 is spot on.

[v00d00daddy]

Well said! I don't include John Molinaro among the list of vultures in the media, but I agree wholeheartedly with all of your points.


Me neither. I disagree with Jmo on this one but I really like his coverage of the team.

[DichioTFC]

And postive stories are there becauase competent people were brought in to run the Leafs.

The same people who brought in Winter and Mariner.

And by the way. There ARE positive stories surrounding this team. They've made some good additions this year.

They're just not talked about because scandal and negativity sell more papers (garner more hits) and cause more discussion.

The mere fact that we're talking about this stupid media access issue over anything other than DeRo is proof of that.

Where are the stories about the addition of Martina, Stevanovic or the two guys we picked up from the DeRo deal.

They're mentioned in passing when the deal happened and then that's it.

For example. We've been screaming for wing players for 5 years and now we have a couple promising ones but we'd rather talk about whether or not the media gets to hang out in the TFC locker room.

We're so addicted to the drama and bullshit surrounding this club that some have actually totally disregarded the fact that we have a coach who is trying to do something completely new.

Something where he wants to implement a style that will get us wins AND entertain us.

Yet that's not good enough. We have to tell ourselves that we suck and will always suck because:

-MLSE are shit
-DeRo is gone
-TFC don't care about the league rules.


Fuck all of that. I think we've turned a corner and I'm not the only one. Unfortunately nobody who is writing about this club either:

a) shares my view
b) has the balls to write about it because it won't elicit angry discussion.

At the end of the day none of us knows what's going to happen. We've thought (in the past) that TFC might have a team that could crack the playoffs (under Carver/Cummins) but we were wrong.

Now people think this season is a write off but they could be wrong.

Honestly...this is the first time in 5 years that I'm actually optimistic about the future. If that future includes TFC skirting a bullshit MLS rule than so be it.

If the league is going to punish us in other ways because of it (which I think is a ridiculous fear but who knows) than it'll be another reason to consider this league a joke.

Nail. Head. I'm sure there are many stories about the club's nuances and little details that could be reported that never do. Instead we get MLS power rankings. Investigative reporting at its finest.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

well said Voodoodaddy

[Whoop]

Can't argue with voodoo.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

As long Winter gives media access to the players within 15 minutes,media guys can complain as much as they want,MLS will not do anything.

yep, perfectly within his rights to do this

[Whoop]

I guess this is the difference. LOL

From the current MLS power rankings about TFC.

From MLS website.

Hand-wringing about De Rosario, debates about sacred locker rooms and the miss of the century overshadowed what was a strong last 70 minutes from TFC (http://www.torontofc.ca/). Tony Tchani (http://www.mlssoccer.com/player/tony-tchani) protected the back line, Danleigh Borman (http://www.mlssoccer.com/player/danleigh-borman) got up and down the left wing and their shape was solid throughout. The new beginning looked good, even though the result was disappointing.

From CBC website.


Lucky to take a point after Chivas squandered 3 scoring chances in 1st 20 minutes.

Though both sources are pretty bang on about Vancouver. :( Though it's not a surprise.

[Whoop]

Not picking on you John... just I think this is what some are talking about.

Like I said I have no issue with the coverage of the team.

[menefreghista]

I guess this is the difference. LOL

From the current MLS power rankings about TFC.

From MLS website.


From CBC website.


Though both sources are pretty bang on about Vancouver. :( Though it's not a surprise.

That's a damn optimistic view of what happened on Saturday though. Bordering on cheerleading. I don't want the media to cheerlead.

[Whoop]

I agree.

But it's also a case of half full, half empty.

[Huyton]

If locker room access had been available, the Sun might not have got the "Dero getting the banner signed" incident horribly wrong. Then again...it's the Sun, so maybe not.

I really appreciate the job the media tends to do around TFC. For the most part, I generally tend to believe that I'm getting most of the story, and although I'd like them to be more in-depth, rather than a series of sound bites, I realize that this is difficult to do in an age when many players are put through training on how to deal with the media.

Personally, I don't see what the problem is with waiting for ALL the players to be available after a game in the gym.

Then again, it's not my job.

But I'll tell you one thing I hated was when Pele played his last game for the Cosmos vs Santos...the only two club teams he'd played for. After the game, in which he'd palyed one half for each team, he was crying his eyes out and completely overcome with emotion, when some jerk sticks a microphone in his face and starts asking questions.

It told me nothing about Pele the man, or the game, or anything. The overwhelming impression that I got was that the guy with the microphone was a complete jerk and that unfettered access by the media is not necessarily a good or enjoyable thing.

[Pookie]

The coverage of the Leafs is way more positive now. Because the positive stories are there.

To highlight something though, the Leafs have limited the access to those drawn towards negative spin. For example, Bill Watters was banned from the ACC. Burke had a boycott of Krystal's morning show on the Fan590 after he made it personal.

At some point, the team has a right to establish its culture for its players and attempt to control it as much as possible. Of course, sometimes a controlled environment leads to FoxNews but since we are talking about sport, that drawback has to be tempered.

Voodoodaddy, I am in complete agreement with your post.

Though the one thing that worries me about Winter's stance is that, while I believe he is fully within his scope to bring this forward, most coaches recognize that the media makes or breaks you. Getting on their "wrong side" could be a career limiting move when sports fans tend to take their opinions from the rant of the day. This is particularly true as the team struggles. I hope he is able to find a compromise that buys him time.

[brad]

I think there is a bigger picture here as well that people need to consider - regardless of what side you are on with this. And John eluded to it, and I think another poster made a sort of tongue in cheek comment on how can Winter say 'No one is bigger than the team' but turn around and unilaterally decide he's going to go against league rules. So perhaps Garber is sitting there going "Hmph - No one is bigger than the league" and you know what he probably won't force him to do anything BUT what do you think will happen next time we have a Stefan Frei situation where he's not a Gen. Adidas player and the league let's us keep his status? My only concern is they might not be so friendly with us next time based on incidents like this and play hardball with league rules since we think we can pick and choose which ones to abide by.

I honestly think that he won't look at that.

A guy like Garber has to be objective. TO is a big market for the MLS, and I don't think he's going to get petty on something like this.

This could in fact be why he is letting Winter get away with it.

[DichioTFC]

Though the one thing that worries me about Winter's stance is that, while I believe he is fully within his scope to bring this forward, most coaches recognize that the media makes or breaks you. Getting on their "wrong side" could be a career limiting move when sports fans tend to take their opinions from the rant of the day. This is particularly true as the team struggles. I hope he is able to find a compromise that buys him time.

Are you saying reporters can be subjective and let their personal biases seep into their coverage? Not possible! ;)

Totally agree, it was a gamble for Winter to piss off the press. But I'm glad he had the balls to do it. The media are often full of themselves and rank their self-importance several notches higher than they should.

[MisterMacphisto]

Also, not my job to be concerned about club's success. It's my job to report on it - although, as a longtime soccer fan and resident of this city, I would like to see the team be successful.

JM

Yes, it is your job to be concerned about the club's success! As fans and supporters, and people reading stories, that is all we are concerned about, is their success and their efforts to be successful.

Has nothing to do about being biased, or painting things rosy when it's not. It's analyzing the club's efforts to be successful and reporting on those efforts.

(Speaking more in general...)

I've read barely any articles about what Winter is trying to do with the club. There is a real story there behind why Winter is closing the dressing room. But instead of a story on that, all we get is tweets and comments on forums about concerns that he is just breaking the rules.

I keep reading stories with comments on Aron's dutch Total Football and system, system, system. :rolleyes: He's never said he's bring Total Football to TFC and what he's trying to do is more than just "a system"

It's more than that. Winter, de Clerk and Mariner are trying to actually bring real winning football culture to Toronto FC. From the dressing room, to how players handle themselves on the field, to having a positive mentality, to developing the academy, to having a specific strategy and tactics and rolls in place for players, to not doing adhoc trades and acquisition. They are looking for real long term success. And ps.. they've never said this year is a write off and I don't think it will be a write off.

I and many others can see that, and would love for Toronto media to delve into that, but instead we get nuggets that "Hhhh, Aron is breaking the rules", "Future looks bleak", "We're doomed, DeRo is gone"

The story about Aron closing the dressing room isn't that he's breaking rules, it's what he is trying to to do with the club and his players, and that should also be a story.

[MisterMacphisto]

Ah... just read v00d00daddy's comments.

Well said! :) +100

[denime]

I honestly think that he won't look at that.

A guy like Garber has to be objective. TO is a big market for the MLS, and I don't think he's going to get petty on something like this.

This could in fact be why he is letting Winter get away with it.

I hate to repeat my self but I don't have a choice because,

WINTER IS NOT BREAKING MLS RULE AT ALL !!


The MLS rule is that they must open the locker-room to the media no more than 15 minutes after the game.

Punishment for breaking the rule is a fine.


As long Winter gives media access to the players within 15 minutes,media guys can complain as much as they want,MLS will not do anything.

[FreekAce]

both voodoo and killgod are right on the money. hope the sandy vag brigade takes notice :D

[johnmolinaro]

Yes, it is your job to be concerned about the club's success! As fans and supporters, and people reading stories, that is all we are concerned about, is their success and their efforts to be successful.

Has nothing to do about being biased, or painting things rosy when it's not. It's analyzing the club's efforts to be successful and reporting on those efforts.

I'm sorry but, respectfully, it is not my job to be concerned about the club's success. It's my job to report about the team in a fair and even-handed way.

I think I do that. When there are positive things to write about, I do it. When things aren't going so well, like right now with the team clearly in rebuilding mode and with Dero gone, my tone is more critical.

If you're not a fan of my work or think I don't do a good job of covering the team, that's fine. I have no problem with that and respect your view.

John

[drewski]

I hate to repeat my self but I don't have a choice because,

WINTER IS NOT BREAKING MLS RULE AT ALL !!


The MLS rule is that they must open the locker-room to the media no more than 15 minutes after the game.

Punishment for breaking the rule is a fine.


As long Winter gives media access to the players within 15 minutes,media guys can complain as much as they want,MLS will not do anything.


how is he not breaking the rule? while he's giving them access, the access isn't in the locker-room as you say the MLS rule states.

[MisterMacphisto]

I'm sorry but, respectfully, it is not my job to be concerned about the club's success. It's my job to report about the team in a fair and even-handed way.

I think I do that. When there are positive things to write about, I do it. When things aren't going so well, like right now with the team clearly in rebuilding mode and with Dero gone, my tone is more critical.

If you're not a fan of my work or think I don't do a good job of covering the team, that's fine. I have no problem with that and respect your view.

John

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cdqdRjExLbc/S9M626gJKiI/AAAAAAAAAeE/VChb1PlGgh0/s1600/WHOOSH2%5B1%5D.gif

Story coming shortly...

[babone]

I'm sorry but, respectfully, it is not my job to be concerned about the club's success. It's my job to report about the team in a fair and even-handed way.

I think I do that. When there are positive things to write about, I do it. When things aren't going so well, like right now with the team clearly in rebuilding mode and with Dero gone, my tone is more critical.

If you're not a fan of my work or think I don't do a good job of covering the team, that's fine. I have no problem with that and respect your view.

John

When will you post a story about DeRo's media scrum in NY after the game?

[johnmolinaro]

Story coming shortly...

Touche!

Although, I think you're being a little "too excited" with this post....

[Ossington Mental Youth]

BWAhahahaha

[brad]

Winter should take all the players to gym post game and open up the empty locker room to the media.

[denime]

how is he not breaking the rule? while he's giving them access, the access isn't in the locker-room as you say the MLS rule states.

There is no rule players have to be in locker room after 15 minutes,only that media must have accesses to locker room,with or without the players.

So now you have to options,go to gym and interview the players or go to locker room and have chitchat with empty lockers and custodian.

[Whoop]

Here's the complete rule



6.11.1 Media Access to Locker Rooms. MLS requires that the Team dressing rooms must be opened to the media no later than 10 minutes after a game (referred to as "cooling down" period). In addition, players must be made available to media prior to games up until 60 minutes before kickoff. A team may, at its discretion, a) open its locker room to media during this pregame period OR b) ensure that a Public Relations staff member be stationed outside the locker room to make any interview requests on behalf of media members. Teams must adhere to one of those two means of pregame media access throughout the season and playoffs. Pregame media access procedure must be properly communicated to all relevant security personnel. Any violations of these rules may result in fines. Team PR directors should be present to signal the beginning of media locker access period before and after League games. Exceptional circumstances may require players to be available to media outside these windows including for national broadcast partners to conduct taped interviews before and after games for use on same-day broadcasts. "Media" consists of the following categories of working professionals who hold appropriate credentials: writers, photographers, radio and television sportscasters and their crews. No individuals other than League or Team representatives or members of the media will be allowed in Team locker rooms following a game. It is left to the discretion of each Team PR Director whether to permit the entry of accredited photographers into locker rooms. Under no circumstances will any club discriminate in any fashion against an accredited member of the media based upon race, creed, sex or national origin.
6.11.2 Post-Game Media Access. A Head Coach may keep the locker room closed to the media for the purpose of a post-Game Team meeting for no more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the Game (determined by the Referee's whistle). Teams will remain on site for a minimum of FORTY (45) minutes after the conclusion of the Game for interview purposes. Violations of this policy may result in fines to the offending party.
Now I don't know the configuration of TFC's locker room, but couldn't the "gym" be construed as part of the "locker room"?

(I don't know if the "gym" area is located within the locker room or if it's in a different part of the building.)

[CretanBull]

Its still mind blowing to me that so many people have faith that the players actually will be made available as promised, when just days before this annoucement the team closed what historically has been an open practice in order to prevent a story from breaking.

Where does your trust come from?

[menefreghista]

Its still mind blowing to me that so many people have faith that the players actually will be made available as promised, when just days before this annoucement the team closed what historically has been an open practice in order to prevent a story from breaking.

Where does your trust come from?

I agree.

My guess is the trust comes from the fact that the guy making these decisions is Dutch. That alone has given him quite a bit of leeway with the fanbase. Plus fans want him to be successful so badly that they will look over things like this.

[Pachuco]

Its still mind blowing to me that so many people have faith that the players actually will be made available as promised, when just days before this annoucement the team closed what historically has been an open practice in order to prevent a story from breaking.

Where does your trust come from?

Considering the circumstances. There was nothing wrong with closing that practice. A major deal was in the making with TFC's captain being traded. What's wrong with them not wanting it to leak until the deal was finalized?

[CretanBull]

Considering the circumstances. There was nothing wrong with closing that practice. A major deal was in the making with TFC's captain being traded. What's wrong with them not wanting it to leak until the deal was finalized?

So limiting the media's access is OK when the team doesn't want a particular story to get out?

[Whoop]

LOL... It has nothing to do with the fact that he's Dutch.

We've had a Scot, two Englishmen, a Serb, and a Canadian at the helm.

I think people just want a winner.

And as for the DeRo/closed practice thing, could it have been due to the fact that the club was working on the deal and didn't want it to fall apart, like it almost did?

Not that I'm defending that just saying there might have been a reason for it.

Or is it that the media is pissed about they not being the ones not breaking the story? I mean, I think most people knew the trade was going down here before the media did.

[Whoop]

So limiting the media's access is OK when the team doesn't want a particular story to get out?

I don't think it's a case of a particular story but trade negotiations have fallen apart when the media has gotten a hold of them.

It's not an uncommon practice by any team, in any sport, to do that when a big trade is coming down the pipe.

[CoachGT]

Its still mind blowing to me that so many people have faith that the players actually will be made available as promised, when just days before this annoucement the team closed what historically has been an open practice in order to prevent a story from breaking.

Where does your trust come from?

I've got no issue with that at all. The story was going to break, but it was unfair to players to ask them to comment about something that is purely (at that time) speculative.

Players were still made available at BMO after practice that day (I know, I was there at the time). The typical response from all was "no comment" when asked about DeRo. The club couldn't make an official announcement because there were some issues in the way. The full announcement was made a little later.

However, they all responded when asked what the team has to do to prepare for the game the next day. But nobody in the public domain saw any of that because of the overarching story that was about to unfold.

[CoachGT]

So limiting the media's access is OK when the team doesn't want a particular story to get out?

Limiting access? It wasn't limited. Players were made available. Where the media was located! Again, I was there.

Delaying a story getting out? Hell, just about every business does that to some extent.

[Whoop]

All these guys have sources within the team. And I don't know if any of them have phone numbers for the players themselves. But this is a case where they could have broken the story with the use of "unnamed sources" or formulated an article based on off the record comments.

It's a case of the media in this market being very competitive and trying to one up one another. Someone wants the credit for breaking the story, the exclusive so to speak, and in this case I don't think any mainstream media guy did.

And it's the same post game. That one reporter wants to get that sound bite that will be played over the radio, or on TV, or put into print to generate hits and views.

It's not like these guys are investigating Watergate, it's sports for crying out loud. And if you're good enough and know enough people, someone will talk and give you a scoop, because it's just sports, not matters of national security.

[CretanBull]

I don't think it's a case of a particular story but trade negotiations have fallen apart when the media has gotten a hold of them.

It's not an uncommon practice by any team, in any sport, to do that when a big trade is coming down the pipe.

Having access to the practice wouldn't have allowed them to report the trade negotiations, it just would have tipped them off that something was up.

Maybe its not an uncommon practice, but its usually not coupled with a dramatic policy shift (one against league rules) about future media access to players.

Individually, theses are are "fine", not cool but sepparately understandable. When you look at them together you'd have to be a fool not to worry about what the future of the media's access to the players will actually be.

If TFC keeps their word and the every player is made available to the media in the gym instead of the locker room then no one cares. The cause for concern is TFCs poor track record of keeping promises, and denying access/shutting out the media to prevent a story from getting out.

[CretanBull]

Limiting access? It wasn't limited. Players were made available. Where the media was located! Again, I was there.

Delaying a story getting out? Hell, just about every business does that to some extent.

I wasn't there, I'm assuming that John wasn't lying when he wrote "practice was to be open to media at Cherry Beach. They closed it and moved it to Oakville because they knew we'd be wise to the Dero thing when we showed up and didn't see him there."

[johnmolinaro]

Having access to the practice wouldn't have allowed them to report the trade negotiations, it just would have tipped them off that something was up.

Maybe its not an uncommon practice, but its usually not coupled with a dramatic policy shift (one against league rules) about future media access to players.

Individually, theses are are "fine", not cool but sepparately understandable. When you look at them together you'd have to be a fool not to worry about what the future of the media's access to the players will actually be.

If TFC keeps their word and the every player is made available to the media in the gym instead of the locker room then no one cares. The cause for concern is TFCs poor track record of keeping promises, and denying access/shutting out the media to prevent a story from getting out.

This is exactly the point I'm making.

Like I said, I can live with this arrangement, provided they keep their promise about players being available. But knowing some of the things that have happened in the past, I am a bit leery.

Really, this is my last word on this in this thread.

Feel free to PM me if you want to debate this more.

John

[CretanBull]

I've got no issue with that at all. The story was going to break, but it was unfair to players to ask them to comment about something that is purely (at that time) speculative.

Players were still made available at BMO after practice that day (I know, I was there at the time). The typical response from all was "no comment" when asked about DeRo. The club couldn't make an official announcement because there were some issues in the way. The full announcement was made a little later.

However, they all responded when asked what the team has to do to prepare for the game the next day. But nobody in the public domain saw any of that because of the overarching story that was about to unfold.

IMO getting a player, a team rep or whatever to say "no comment" has value and is infinitely better than not being given access to the player, team rep etc. in the first place. I'm OK with anyone who doesn't want to talk about an issue, I'm not OK with people hiding from the media.

[Whoop]

Why wasn't a stink raised by the media after the 5-0 loss to NY when only Sam Cronin and Brian Edwards faced the media?

If there was any day people were upset and expected some answers... that was the day.

But really when has TFC denied media access to players? If anything you could argue that TFC players are too accessible.

There have been instances when TFC has given the media the runaround, ie. Dero with Celtic, but in that case for example, the media, in my mind, never did a good enough job getting to the bottom of the story.

When TFC was denying giving DeRo permission, no one asked DeRo or his reps point blank who gave him permission to go to Celtic. Instead, we got a dragging out of the drama out and then finding out only when he left that, according to DeRo, Cochrane gave him permission. The media could have confronted Cochrane at that point and said "DeRo says YOU gave him permission, so why are you saying you had no idea about it? Is he lying or are you?"

But none of that happened.

[CoachGT]

I wasn't there, I'm assuming that John wasn't lying when he wrote "practice was to be open to media at Cherry Beach. They closed it and moved it to Oakville because they knew we'd be wise to the Dero thing when we showed up and didn't see him there."

Correct. They moved practice, one that was normally open, because of an impending story. However, I spoke with John at BMO Field just after the players arrived after practice. The first person the media spoke to was Winter. Pretty much everybody knew that something was going on with DeRo by that time, but the team was not in a position to confirm until the deal had been completed.

Again, through hockey days, I've been on that side of the coin and there isn't much you can do until everything is done.

[Beach_Red]

Its still mind blowing to me that so many people have faith that the players actually will be made available as promised, when just days before this annoucement the team closed what historically has been an open practice in order to prevent a story from breaking.

Where does your trust come from?

As long as the league doesn't say anything it's fine. But we watched Carver have a breakdown over league rules and inconsistent offciating and not being backed up by his FO. So now maybe there's a whole new attitude at TFC and it'll be fine.

[Whoop]

IMO getting a player, a team rep or whatever to say "no comment" has value and is infinitely better than not being given access to the player, team rep etc. in the first place. I'm OK with anyone who doesn't want to talk about an issue, I'm not OK with people hiding from the media.

But players run and hide all the time from the media.

If a guy doesn't want to talk to the media that day for whatever reason there are ways guys can do it.

As a supporter do I like it? No not necessarily. But if a guy doesn't want to talk to someone, he doesn't have to feel forced to.

Again... wouldn't a better arrangement for ALL be similar to post-game conference room/area? Where a) the coach comes out, b) 3-4 players come out to talk to the media? And a player requested doesn't come out the PR guy would have an explanation for why he didn't come out?

Maybe he doesn't want to talk right after the game but will someone follow up at the following practice? I mean, sure a guy can duck out after a game but if you really want to talk to him about something, I'm sure you can track him down at the next practice. It's not like the guy can hide forever either.

[Whoop]

Correct. They moved practice, one that was normally open, because of an impending story. However, I spoke with John at BMO Field just after the players arrived after practice. The first person the media spoke to was Winter. Pretty much everybody knew that something was going on with DeRo by that time, but the team was not in a position to confirm until the deal had been completed.

Again, through hockey days, I've been on that side of the coin and there isn't much you can do until everything is done.

The same.

[MisterMacphisto]

This is exactly the point I'm making.

Like I said, I can live with this arrangement, provided they keep their promise about players being available. But knowing some of the things that have happened in the past, I am a bit leery.

Really, this is my last word on this in this thread.

Feel free to PM me if you want to debate this more.

John

Letter about locker access was written by Aron Winter, Toronto FC's new head coach Technical Director and personally signed by him.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/268903870.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1302033336&Signature=FxMyLfNI3EuziUbdMcVoSOjsJ4U%3D

He says and I quote:

"I can assure you that all my players will be available following our matches in the gym under a different configuration that I feel is safer for everyone involved, but also media friendly. My players know they have responsibilities to the media and they have been instructed of their responsibilities and I expect each of them to honour their requirements."

I don't know how more clear Winter could of got or what more he could of said to alleviate any concerns.

Unless anyone in the media can point to a single promise or statement that Aron Winter has made that was a lie or misleading, it's not reasonable to assume or be concerned that he is going to break his word.

[CretanBull]

Whoop - I realize that players hide all the time and if they want to get away with not talking to the media they'll find a way. My point is that we don't have to throw our support behind an arrangement that makes that easier.

[Pookie]

I like reading (and listening) to John's stuff. There is an implied quality difference v other reporters.

Let's not forget that this is his business. Naturally, if you feel like access to the thing that makes you money and furthers your career is being limited, you might react the way he has.

In the end, I don't think his access to information or his "content" will be limited. I understand the fear but don't think it will have an impact in the long run.

I would like to highlight something that he said though:

"Also, not my job to be concerned about club's success. It's my job to report on it - although, as a longtime soccer fan and resident of this city, I would like to see the team be successful."

... in many ways though, if the team is not a success in terms of popularity, it will impact your job and lifestyle. This message really applies to all writers but the negativity that sells over the short term might end up costing you more in the end.

[s2cazz]

So limiting the media's access is OK when the team doesn't want a particular story to get out?

Just because we are fans it doesn't mean everything the club does is our business.

My clients don't have the right to know anything about my business moves behind closed doors. Your fucking right its ok for them to limit media access to whatever they choose as long as they don't break any laws to do it.

Thats the way the world works. They are a business, not our government. They have a right to privacy as well.

[denime]

So limiting the media's access is OK when the team doesn't want a particular story to get out?

Yes it is ok,

when you want your team to focus on practice and next game instead of circus surrounding one of your players,it was the right move and I would do exactly the same.

and BTW what's the big difference between a "No Comment answer" in a locker room while player is scratching his sweating balls or in a gym while riding the bike,it's still "No Comment answer"? Unless ...

[Whoop]

I just think right now there is a huge split between the "I don't trust MLSE/Mo/FO + enough is enough + have been burned in the past" camp and the "give Winter time + have to support the team" camp.

Really this is what the whole argument boils down to.

While I don't trust MLSE and the FO, I'm willing to support the team (players and coaches) and if the coach feels that this is necessary for the time being I can also understand that point of view.

I see both sides really given my past (being accepted to journalism school) and current situations (working for a team).

Personally, I think this whole situation, really, is being blown out of proportion by both sides.

[JonO]

Its still mind blowing to me that so many people have faith that the players actually will be made available as promised, when just days before this annoucement the team closed what historically has been an open practice in order to prevent a story from breaking.

Where does your trust come from?
My trust comes from the fact that Winter is under no obligation to keep practices open. He is under an obligation to make players available to the media.

While some may not like what he did with the practice, he did nothing wrong and broke no promises of which I am aware.

[denime]

Whoop - I realize that players hide all the time and if they want to get away with not talking to the media they'll find a way. My point is that we don't have to throw our support behind an arrangement that makes that easier.


What makes you think we are entitled to anything what is going on within the team and club?

If you are STH you are entitled to your seats and that's about it,TFC is not public service where you can ask for transparency.

[Beach_Red]

I just think right now there is a huge split between the "I don't trust MLSE/Mo/FO + enough is enough + have been burned in the past" camp and the "give Winter time + have to support the team" camp.




Yeah, this is true. And there's also a split between the different ideas of what it means to "support" TFC. One thing we've learned with this team is that they need the supporters to stay on them and keep them honest. I don't mean Winter and Mariner and I'm not talking about this particular issue with the media, just a general response to your two camps idea.

[Whoop]

There are things that the club can do for transparency sake.

i.e. What the hell is going on with Bouchiba? We've heard that he's out for the year, yet why haven't the media inquired about said player? Why hasn't the club released something to the effect that Bouchiba is out for the year and that the team will be looking for a replacement.

As a season ticket holder I'd like to know if a player is expected to play or if he's injured. Most leagues have a rule in regards to submitting an injury report. I don't necessarily care what the injury is exactly but whether or not he is going to play or not.

And why all the secrecy about trialists, especially in the past? I applaud the team for releasing names this year but I felt in the past when there was all this secrecy the media did a poor job in finding out who was trialling. I mean, you're at practice, you see a new face and you inquire about who that player is. Instead we had people here breaking down photos and video snippets or relying on a "buddy of a buddy" to find out that information.

And I stick by what I said about the lack of media coverage following the 5-0 debacle in NY and the dragged out affair that was DeRo-Celtic. Where was the media there, digging to find out the story?

Why was I relying on Ives Galarcep tweets for information on the DeRo trade when guys in this market, who live in the city where the trade was happening, couldn't beat Ives to the punch?

[CretanBull]

Whether we like it or not, its the culture of North American sports. Whether the teams/players like it or not that access is what drives fan interest and TV ratings. Talking to a player as he comes off the pitch immediately following a great win or horrible defeat is a huge part of the human element of sports that makes watching so compelling.

If I asked you to think of a World Series celebration, does your mind automatically go to scenes of champaign being sprayed all around in the locker room as emotion poors out from the players, or does it go to stoic scenes of a guy riding a stationary bike calmly explaing the importance of the win?

[Alonso]

well said Voodoodaddy


+1 :drinking:

[Whoop]

I think if the team wins a championship, media access won't be restricted. ;)

But on the flip side you get something like this. Which was the one thing I remember after Canada lost to Sweden after the Forsberg stamp goal.



In 1994, the Canadian Olympic hockey team fell in the gold medal game after a heartbreaking shootout against Sweden (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/topic/article/Sweden/1900-01-01/2100-12-31/mdd/index.htm). CTV reporter Rod Black buttonholed winger Todd Hlushko coming off the ice. On live TV, Black pointed out that Hlushko's father, while on his deathbed, had urged him to bring home a gold medal. Hlushko's father then passed away shortly before the Games. What, Black asked, would his father think of the team winning only silver?

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1045386/index.htm#ixzz1IgFZ4yu9



Hlushko was upset after the loss and just lost it when he asked that question. I have never respected anything that Rod Black has ever done since that point. (I don't think Black ever apologized to Hlushko over that.) And Rod Black is one of the bigger sports reporters in the industry.

[Alonso]

I honestly think that he won't look at that.

A guy like Garber has to be objective. TO is a big market for the MLS, and I don't think he's going to get petty on something like this.

This could in fact be why he is letting Winter get away with it.


Yeah and unlike most markets, as has already been pointed out, media coverage of the team here is miles ahead.

[Whoop]

Whether we like it or not, its the culture of North American sports. Whether the teams/players like it or not that access is what drives fan interest and TV ratings. Talking to a player as he comes off the pitch immediately following a great win or horrible defeat is a huge part of the human element of sports that makes watching so compelling.

If I asked you to think of a World Series celebration, does your mind automatically go to scenes of champaign being sprayed all around in the locker room as emotion poors out from the players, or does it go to stoic scenes of a guy riding a stationary bike calmly explaing the importance of the win?

Or you get this... :D

JSd8CqBEbcY

[CretanBull]

Hlushko was upset after the loss and just lost it when he asked that question. I have never respected anything that Rod Black has ever done since that point. (I don't think Black ever apologized to Hlushko over that.) And Rod Black is one of the bigger sports reporters in the industry.


That's not a problem with access, that's a problem with Rod Black being brain dead.

[McBrace]

Maybe while Garber is at it he can give us the unlimited allocation LA and NY seem to have...

[Pookie]

As a season ticket holder I'd like to know if a player is expected to play or if he's injured. Most leagues have a rule in regards to submitting an injury report. I don't necessarily care what the injury is exactly but whether or not he is going to play or not.


Just FYI, MLS has an injury report:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/mls-injury-report


One thing that I don't get about the reporters that cover the MLS, is why are they reluctant to challenge the league and it's rules?

For example, why is the salary cap such a mystery?

From a number of sources, I've been able to piece together that the base salary is the only one that counts and that the max cap hit of any player is $335k.

So, if a writer (ahem, Wheeler) asserts that there is a cap savings on the table by giving a player a certain type of contract, shouldn't the media call BS on it?

If all of that is true, why is the Designated Player tag such a big deal? As an example, if you can pay a guy a baseline salary of $335k with a $1M signing bonus, he nets out $1.335M and only $335k counts against your cap. Which effectively means that any number of players could be brought in by a club with means (provided that the MLS would approve their contracts).

Isn't that a very interesting storyline? Does the MLS prevent teams with high means from bringing in talent around the rules of a DP? Are teams with the means hiding behind the mask of a salary cap when in reality it is a soft cap? Does the "DP" tag actually mean anything?

Rather than focusing on player A saying that "we are starting to gel", I'd love to see light shed on the inner workings of this league that we all pay our money to see.

Then there is the allocation money given out for "exceptional circumstances"... that is a story in and of itself.

[Whoop]

That's not a problem with access, that's a problem with Rod Black being brain dead.

LOL... that is true.

[Whoop]

Just FYI, MLS has an injury report:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/mls-injury-report

Not a lot there in terms of details but

Thanks.

I knew something like this had to exist.

[kaos197O]

Kind of hypocritical on Winter's part to do something like this really. We just heard speech after speech about how "NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB!", regarding players, more specifically Cann and Dero, acting out and not abiding by the RULES of the club. We heard that straight from the horses ass and now, somehow, they are bigger than the league and it's rules!

There ARE proper forums and guidelines that owners have to address their issues and air their grievances with the league. Did they? NO!

They get what they deserve and I HOPE that they are made an example of in this instance. They need to learn the very lesson they felt they needed to teach to their very own players.

Hypocrisy at it's finest!

BTW, I don't necessarily agree with this hard line stance but feel that what's good for the goose is........

[Alonso]

Maybe while Garber is at it he can give us the unlimited allocation LA and NY seem to have...


I still don't get how its possible for them to build their teams while TFC is strapped with cap and allocation restrictions?

Maybe John can do a story on this? (not being facetious) I would be ever greatful if someone that actually does this for a living took a few weeks to dig into this apparent discrepency....

[Whoop]

Good call Alonso.

[ExiledRed]

I think if the team wins a championship, media access won't be restricted. ;)

But on the flip side you get something like this. Which was the one thing I remember after Canada lost to Sweden after the Forsberg stamp goal.




Hlushko was upset after the loss and just lost it when he asked that question. I have never respected anything that Rod Black has ever done since that point. (I don't think Black ever apologized to Hlushko over that.) And Rod Black is one of the bigger sports reporters in the industry.


Wow, did Hlushko smack his head in? I would have.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Kind of hypocritical on Winter's part to do something like this really. We just heard speech after speech about how "NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB!", regarding players, more specifically Cann and Dero, acting out and not abiding by the RULES of the club. We heard that straight from the horses ass and now, somehow, they are bigger than the league and it's rules!

There ARE proper forums and guidelines that owners have to address their issues and air their grievances with the league. Did they? NO!

They get what they deserve and I HOPE that they are made an example of in this instance. They need to learn the very lesson they felt they needed to teach to their very own players.

Hypocrisy at it's finest!

BTW, I don't necessarily agree with this hard line stance but feel that what's good for the goose is........

but its not hypocritical as its in the guidelines, its a rule and hes decided to abide by it

[denime]

FFS Winter did not break the rule,read few pages back and you will find the rules.
before you call Winter hypocritical,check the facts/rules.

If you really think mls will fine tfc,I would suggest you to stop :drinking:


Kind of hypocritical on Winter's part to do something like this really. We just heard speech after speech about how "NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB!", regarding players, more specifically Cann and Dero, acting out and not abiding by the RULES of the club. We heard that straight from the horses ass and now, somehow, they are bigger than the league and it's rules!

There ARE proper forums and guidelines that owners have to address their issues and air their grievances with the league. Did they? NO!

They get what they deserve and I HOPE that they are made an example of in this instance. They need to learn the very lesson they felt they needed to teach to their very own players.

Hypocrisy at it's finest!

BTW, I don't necessarily agree with this hard line stance but feel that what's good for the goose is........

[Roogsy]

but its not hypocritical as its in the guidelines, its a rule and hes decided to abide by it

I am sorry, I have been trying to stay out of this one, but how has he decided to abide by it? The rule is clear. Access in the locker room no more than 15 minutes later. He has decided that the access is not in the locker room but in the gym but he has promised players will be made available. That's not abiding by the rule, that is setting your own conditions.

I don't care if you agree or disagree with Winter's reasons, I can't possibly understand how someone can see this as anything but breaking a rule, whether it be small or not.

[Whoop]

Is the gym located in the locker room? In vicinity of the locker room? Or in another part of BMO Field?

[ExiledRed]

this.....'nobody is bigger than the club' should translate into 'no club is bigger than the league' is just lame bullshit.

two different situations, two different dynamics.

players dont have part ownership of the club, and they dont spend millions of dollars in order to play for it.

[MisterMacphisto]

Kind of hypocritical on Winter's part to do something like this really. We just heard speech after speech about how "NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE CLUB!", regarding players, more specifically Cann and Dero, acting out and not abiding by the RULES of the club. We heard that straight from the horses ass and now, somehow, they are bigger than the league and it's rules!

There ARE proper forums and guidelines that owners have to address their issues and air their grievances with the league. Did they? NO!

They get what they deserve and I HOPE that they are made an example of in this instance. They need to learn the very lesson they felt they needed to teach to their very own players.

Hypocrisy at it's finest!

BTW, I don't necessarily agree with this hard line stance but feel that what's good for the goose is........

I don't get this analogy and doesn't really make sense in terms of Winter's comments.

In regards to Winter and the players, it is and should all be about TFC and the club. That's what Winter's actions are for.... for the club. Everyone should be about being for the club, and as a supporter, that's what I'm concerned about.

There's no expression, "No one is bigger than the league". In fact, that's our goal, to be the best in the league.

You could say Winter is hypocritical if he did an action for personal gain or something that was a slight to the club. His actions for the locker room where for the betterment of the club.

Your analogy makes no sense.

[Whoop]

this.....'nobody is bigger than the club' should translate into 'no club is bigger than the league' is just lame bullshit.

two different situations, two different dynamics.

players dont have part ownership of the club, and they dont spend millions of dollars in order to play for it.

I agree with ER here.

[s2cazz]

Whether we like it or not, its the culture of North American sports. Whether the teams/players like it or not that access is what drives fan interest and TV ratings. Talking to a player as he comes off the pitch immediately following a great win or horrible defeat is a huge part of the human element of sports that makes watching so compelling.

If I asked you to think of a World Series celebration, does your mind automatically go to scenes of champaign being sprayed all around in the locker room as emotion poors out from the players, or does it go to stoic scenes of a guy riding a stationary bike calmly explaing the importance of the win?

But it is still a choice, a business decision, not the right of the fan.

[denime]

I am sorry, I have been trying to stay out of this one, but how has he decided to abide by it? The rule is clear. Access in the locker room no more than 15 minutes later. He has decided that the access is not in the locker room but in the gym but he has promised players will be made available. That's not abiding by the rule, that is setting your own conditions.

I don't care if you agree or disagree with Winter's reasons, I can't possibly understand how someone can see this as anything but breaking a rule, whether it be small or not.

Well,he will give accsess to the room but players will not be there,he is not breaking the rule,say what you want.

[denime]

this.....'nobody is bigger than the club' should translate into 'no club is bigger than the league' is just lame bullshit.

two different situations, two different dynamics.

players dont have part ownership of the club, and they dont spend millions of dollars in order to play for it.

THIS

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I am sorry, I have been trying to stay out of this one, but how has he decided to abide by it? The rule is clear. Access in the locker room no more than 15 minutes later. He has decided that the access is not in the locker room but in the gym but he has promised players will be made available. That's not abiding by the rule, that is setting your own conditions.

I don't care if you agree or disagree with Winter's reasons, I can't possibly understand how someone can see this as anything but breaking a rule, whether it be small or not.

i was thinking more access to the players in 15 mins period, obviously this is a big issue for some, pretty black and white for me

[Whoop]

It's actually 10 minutes from the ref's whistle.

[kaos197O]

FFS Winter did not break the rule,read few pages back and you will find the rules.
before you call Winter hypocritical,check the facts/rules.

If you really think mls will fine tfc,I would suggest you to stop :drinking:

I've read it and I'm not drinking. Makes me kinda psychotic!

He has 10 minutes to keep that locker room closed, as per the guidelines posted in the league rules, after the whistle blows to end the game. After that it is free game. If it is his intent to have a quick "hey good job guys, now file out there to the gym before they get in here" talk and they are ALL out in the gym area, then you are right, he technically hasn't broken any rules as the Locker room is open and the media has access to it and the players. If not, it's breaking the rules.

You think John came on here to stir shit? I don't!

[CretanBull]

But it is still a choice, a business decision, not the right of the fan.

There's no debate about whether or not we (or the media) have the right, but that doesn't mean that we have to be happy with the decisions that they make.

[denime]

6.11.2 Post-Game Media Access. A Head Coach may keep the locker room closed to the media for the purpose of a post-Game Team meeting for no more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the Game (determined by the Referee's whistle) of Teams will remain on site for a minimum of FORTY (45) minutes after the conclusion of the Game for interview purposes. Violations of this policy may result in fines to the offending party.


It is actually 45 MINUTES after the game,like I said open door 10 after and let players go out,media can interview empty lockers or go to gym were players will be for next 45 minutes to give interviews.

[tfcleeds]

I think if the team wins a championship, media access won't be restricted. ;)

But on the flip side you get something like this. Which was the one thing I remember after Canada lost to Sweden after the Forsberg stamp goal.




Hlushko was upset after the loss and just lost it when he asked that question. I have never respected anything that Rod Black has ever done since that point. (I don't think Black ever apologized to Hlushko over that.) And Rod Black is one of the bigger sports reporters in the industry.


Wow...I'm surprised Black still had a job after that. What a moron.

[Whoop]

The issue here isn't the venue of the interview (gym vs. locker room) but whether or not a player will duck out of his media responsibilities.

I mean how many exits are there in the locker room? If a reporter feels a guy is going to duck out of the room to avoid them and a reporter really wants to speak with them, wouldn't the reporter still see him?

Or is there a hidden maze underneath the stadium that allows players to escape?

I could understand if the team was playing in a NFL stadium as there are more spots to hide.

If I really needed a quote from a particular player 1) I know where he is going to ultimately leave the stadium (usually in the vicinity of gate 4) and 2) I know where the players park.

[kaos197O]

this.....'nobody is bigger than the club' should translate into 'no club is bigger than the league' is just lame bullshit.

two different situations, two different dynamics.

players dont have part ownership of the club, and they dont spend millions of dollars in order to play for it.

Semantics. There are guidelines and rules that owners have to follow in dealing with the league. If they have league approval, we will soon see it. If they don't they believe that they can act outside the leagues rules. Regardless of whether or not they spend money, they knew the rules when they bought the franchise and should live up to their initial agreement or have things changed in the appropriate forum!

Personally, I don't care about when or where they get interviewed, but TFC has shown heavy handed management in the past and since they have taken a "HIGH ROAD" stance, I actually want to ensure that they take that road on all levels of their dealings!

[CretanBull]

It is actually 45 MINUTES after the game,like I said open door 10 after and let players go out,media can interview empty lockers or go to gym were players will be for next 45 minutes to give interviews.

If that's what happens then no one has a problem. No one is objecting to conducting an interview in one location vs the other. The worry is that while every player has to go to the locker room post game for practical purposes ie its unavoidable (which grants automatic access) not every play has to go to the gym which might lead to limited access. Will the team shield particular players involved in key events from going to the gym to be interviewed? While I agree that Winter deserves the a clean slate, this team's history with transparency hasn't been good so there reason for concern.

If things happen as they've promised they will then no one has a problem.

[denime]

[QUOTE=kaos197O;126744

You think John came on here to stir shit? I don't![/QUOTE]

I don't know,ask John.

He is reading the thread right now,probably with a bag of popcorn and cold coke.
:D

[nfitz]

I don't see from the language of the rule, that if they players are made available after 10 minutes (perhaps being kept in the closed locker room before that) how the rule is being broken.

I don't see anything that says the 45-minute access period is in the locker room in particular.

[ExiledRed]

I agree with everything Winter has said here, and I hope his decision stands.

I do think its all a deflection though.

[Whoop]

I agree with everything Winter has said here, and I hope his decision stands.

I do think its all a deflection though.

That's what I said earlier, which I think is the case as well.

[ExiledRed]

Semantics. There are guidelines and rules that owners have to follow in dealing with the league. If they have league approval, we will soon see it. If they don't they believe that they can act outside the leagues rules. Regardless of whether or not they spend money, they knew the rules when they bought the franchise and should live up to their initial agreement or have things changed in the appropriate forum!

Personally, I don't care about when or where they get interviewed, but TFC has shown heavy handed management in the past and since they have taken a "HIGH ROAD" stance, I actually want to ensure that they take that road on all levels of their dealings!

absolutely, my point however was that the oft used phrase

'no player is bigger than the club' refers to the fact that the club is supposed to be a unified effort all seeking to achieve the same goal. Its not about any one individual effort, and no individual's aspirations is more important than the team effort.

As far as the league goes, this is a collective of teams competing against each other, and buying into the right to do so. Its a cut throat game of monopoly with secret rules, trading favours and machiavellian politics. There are many clubs around the world that are bigger than their leagues, in the respect that if they pulled out the league would degenerate.

What would happen to the SPL should Rangers and Celtic join the prem for instance?

[Pachuco]

6.11.2 Post-Game Media Access. A Head Coach may keep the locker room closed to the media for the purpose of a post-Game Team meeting for no more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the Game (determined by the Referee's whistle) of Teams will remain on site for a minimum of FORTY (45) minutes after the conclusion of the Game for interview purposes. Violations of this policy may result in fines to the offending party.


It is actually 45 MINUTES after the game,like I said open door 10 after and let players go out,media can interview empty lockers or go to gym were players will be for next 45 minutes to give interviews.

I find it hard to believe that players will go into the locker room, do their thing and be at the gym 10 mins after the ref blew the whistle. Particularly at home when alot of them do their rounds on the field.

So technically if Winter doesn't open the locker room doors 10 mins after the whistle blew then he is violating the rules.

Not that I care, I don't think the media should be in the locker rooms period. Wait until they get to the gym and if they want to avoid you then they have all the right to avoid you.

[icecoldbeer]

@gareth_wheeler

Winter closed the lockerroom to Media last week. Commissioner Garber is "emphatically" opening it back up #TorontoFC #TFC #MLS

https://twitter.com/#!/gareth_wheeler/status/55683588208861184

[ManUtd4ever]

https://twitter.com/#!/gareth_wheeler/status/55683588208861184

Those few days of relative peace and quiet after the victory over Portland sure were nice weren't they?

Sigh...

[babone]

Funny Wheeler has not tweeted since DeRo came out with the truth that contradicted his story. Some one is a little upset.

[ManUtd4ever]

The Fan590 just reported that Garber has in fact overruled Winter's proclamation. I just hope Winter can accept that MLS regulations differ from European Leagues and get on with it.

[lintberg]

The Globe & Mail is now reporting that the MLS has demanded that Winter opens the locker room to media.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/mls-forces-toronto-fc-to-open-locker-room-to-media/article1973331/

[Whoop]

I wonder how Winter will react to this?

[babone]

I wonder if Garber addressed the team before going puplic? And if the team refuses to comply if there is a precedant for fines if the team does not comply.

[mastermixer]

This whole story is ridiculous. This was going to happen sooner or later.
I'm guessing someone other than Winter typed up that letter after he requested the lockout. He is not to blame here. Shouldnt someone at MLSE have advised him not to do this? Is anyone in that organization competent FFS???

[ManUtd4ever]

I wonder how Winter will react to this?

For the sake of the club, he better accept it and move on. Now is not the time to get into a power struggle with the MLS commissioner and create even more negative press.

Although I agreed with Winter's stance in principle, he must respect Garber's decision.

[drewski]

tsn reporting too

http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=361087

[Whoop]

For the sake of the club, he better accept it and move on. Now is not the time to get into a power struggle with the MLS commisioner and create even more negative press.

Although I agreed with Winter's stance in principle, he must respect Garber's decision.

I hope so.

Though I think it would be more of a power struggle with the media than with Don Garber himself.

[Auzzy]

I suppose he may ask about the "Rules are rules" bit. Ya now, in reference to allocation dollars, special arrangements, etc..... It would also be interesting if players that were denied upgrades to DP contracts by the league this year, get it in future years (if that was in fact the case -- Winter will know).

Also, I guess the rule says, the locker room has to be open. What if all practices are closed from now on? (Not covered by the rules.) What if the locker room is open, but it's pretty empty, and nobody is saying much?

I have no idea where this will go. Too bad this couldn't be resolved more amicably.

[babone]

Anyone got Garber's height? could be little man syndrome similar to Bettmen?

[drewski]

De Vos on his thoughts, as a former player, on media in the dressing room.



jasondevos (http://twitter.com/#%21/jasondevos)

@Lord_Bob (http://twitter.com/Lord_Bob) I agree with Winter. Dressing room should be a sanctuary for players and coaches.
jasondevos (http://twitter.com/#%21/jasondevos)

@Lord_Bob (http://twitter.com/Lord_Bob) As long as good access is given to media (which it is in North America) I don't see the problem with it.

[Whoop]

But wasn't deVos complaining about it earlier?

Though he does have a good point, which is what I saying earlier.



jasondevos (http://twitter.com/#%21/jasondevos)



MLS is growing the interest in the sport, and players and coaches must be accessible. Why not have an adjacent media room for all players?

[ryan]

Well Mr. Garber, in case you haven't noticed, very few people in Toronto media have anything positive to say about TFC or the club, even if we earn points in a match.

So lets continue to let us grow through negativity and pot shots about how irrelevant soccer is in this country. Who played in the MLS final again? Nobody seems to know on TV, but lets let them keep doing what they're doing.

Now where were we, oh right, back to whining about trading DeRo and the death of the 2011 TFC season because we only drew Chivas.

/dramatic

[Red CB Toronto]

If a guy does not want to be available for interviews after the game, he simply can hide out in the training room, head out a back door or whatever else may come to mind to avoid having to talk.

Well if a player really wanted to, he could just talk in circles and then the interview would be useless anyways.

[Brooker]

The media in this city has such a sense of entitlement it's revolting.

[ensco]

It was dumb and smug for Winter to do what he did, without discussing it with the league.

Winter standing over Cann, while Adrian read an apology like a POW for the cameras, you think every other team in the league didn't make a tape of that, just to show potential signings who are considering Toronto how much fun they can look forward to at TFC?

We live in the messy world we live in. Good players have to want to come here. Winter's act will bite us in the ass one day soon.

I'm dying to see Winter succeed. I really am. But he has got to throttle back this tough guy stuff. There's a general consensus that he was tough but fair with Dero. So enough. He doesn't need to keep it up with this other stuff.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i dunno, i can see what youre saying but so far hes been tough but fair, i guess ill wait and see, apparently the don put down hisfoot but as long as winter follows the 10/15 min (whichever number it is), hes got no leg to stand on

[Beach_Red]

It was dumb and smug for Winter to do what he did, without discussing it with the league.

Winter standing over Cann, while Adrian read an apology like a POW for the cameras, you think every other team in the league didn't make a tape of that, just to show potential signings who are considering Toronto how much fun they can look forward to at TFC?

We live in the messy world we live in. Good players have to want to come here. Winter's act will bite us in the ass one day soon.

I'm dying to see Winter succeed. I really am. But he has got to throttle back this tough guy stuff. There's a general consensus that he was tough but fair with Dero. So enough. He doesn't need to keep it up with this other stuff.

Do you think he discussed it with Mariner or anyone else at TFC who has some experience with the league?

[werewolf]

How much fun players can have after they walk out on the team?

[CretanBull]

Do you think he discussed it with Mariner or anyone else at TFC who has some experience with the league?

I'm reasonably certain that he would have had to have...I can't imagine that a coach made that decision, typed up and released a press release all on his own doing.

[ensco]

How much fun players can have after they walk out on the team?

A man who makes a mistake should be treated like a man, not a child.

[ensco]

I'm reasonably certain that he would have had to have...I can't imagine that a coach made that decision, typed up and released a press release all on his own doing.

OMG it's Dero-to-Celtic-gate all over again!

[werewolf]

Act like a man, you will be treated like a man. Act like a child, you will be treated like a child.

[kaos197O]

I wonder if Garber addressed the team before going puplic? And if the team refuses to comply if there is a precedant for fines if the team does not comply.
Why should he have? Did the team give the LEAGUE a head's up before they decided to change LEAGUE rules?

[kaos197O]

This whole story is ridiculous. This was going to happen sooner or later.
I'm guessing someone other than Winter typed up that letter after he requested the lockout. He is not to blame here. Shouldnt someone at MLSE have advised him not to do this? Is anyone in that organization competent FFS???
Someone forged his signature too, right? :picard:

[ensco]

Act like a man, you will be treated like a man. Act like a child, you will be treated like a child.

When he walked out, he didn't give up his right to be treated respectfully, if he came back. Not with me anyway.

[kaos197O]

The media in this city has such a sense of entitlement it's revolting.
It's a LEAGUE policy! The media IS entitled as per LEAGUE RULES!

[CretanBull]

Act like a man, you will be treated like a man. Act like a child, you will be treated like a child.

How is a player supposed to treat the club that ripped him off?

[Beach_Red]

OMG it's Dero-to-Celtic-gate all over again!


I was thinking of Carver and sitting in the press box, but there is a trend here.

What I'm really hoping is that the team backs Winter 100% (even if you think he's heavy handed or whatever) and that he'll be the only one speaking for the team. The whole DeRo thing (and the Carver thing and so many others with this team) seemed to all come down to too many people speaking for TFC and nothing definitive being said.

[ManUtd4ever]

It was dumb and smug for Winter to do what he did, without discussing it with the league.

Winter standing over Cann, while Adrian read an apology like a POW for the cameras, you think every other team in the league didn't make a tape of that, just to show potential signings who are considering Toronto how much fun they can look forward to at TFC?

We live in the messy world we live in. Good players have to want to come here. Winter's act will bite us in the ass one day soon.

I'm dying to see Winter succeed. I really am. But he has got to throttle back this tough guy stuff. There's a general consensus that he was tough but fair with Dero. So enough. He doesn't need to keep it up with this other stuff.

In fairness to Winter, I believe he handled the DeRo and Cann situations appropriately, and this was merely an attempt to shield his players from potential media scrutiny. As of now, it's really not an issue.

As long as Winter isn't defiant in response to Garber's verdict, this story will fade into the background.

[werewolf]

How is a player supposed to treat the club that ripped him off?

hundreds of pages ripping DeRo, but he never walked out on the team.

[ensco]

How is a player supposed to treat the club that ripped him off?

You are right about this too. But even this doesn't matter.

Good leaders believe that their people are essentially good, but make mistakes. Cann came back. He was back on the team. He was fully humiliated even before that idiotic press conference. Winter piling on like that was 100% the wrong thing to do.

[babone]

Why should he have. Did the team give the LEAGUE a head's up before they decided to change LEAGUE rules?

So your telling me the league should go public before addresssing an issue with a team. Please!

Personally i say Send me the fines and keep the locker closed.

[CretanBull]

hundreds of pages ripping DeRo, but he never walked out on the team.

I supported both DeRo and Cann - they were lied to and felt cheated, as would any of us in the same situation. Fans want to see everything as an individual event, but the players talk to each other and know what's going on. So when Cann sees that DeRo got screwed over, and then finds out that he's getting screwed over too he's not only reacting to his situation but taking a stance vs a club that has a history and habit of lying to players.

[Auzzy]

It was dumb and smug for Winter to do what he did, without discussing it with the league.

Winter standing over Cann, while Adrian read an apology like a POW for the cameras, you think every other team in the league didn't make a tape of that, just to show potential signings who are considering Toronto how much fun they can look forward to at TFC?

We live in the messy world we live in. Good players have to want to come here. Winter's act will bite us in the ass one day soon.

I'm dying to see Winter succeed. I really am. But he has got to throttle back this tough guy stuff. There's a general consensus that he was tough but fair with Dero. So enough. He doesn't need to keep it up with this other stuff.

I won't get into the Cann thing specifically, but I don't understand the connection you're trying to show here. Winter's attempt at keeping media out of the locker room could also be seen as protecting the players, giving them some quiet space (i.e., the opposite of what you feel about the treatment of Cann). And Winter would have had this rule apply to himself, other coaches etc., as well as the players. He's not used to having media in the locker room; he finds it annoying, disruptive, and dangerous for the success of the club; and he is trying to reduce the amount of drama around the club. Apparently he was naive about being able to implement this rule -- but I don't see the connection.

[Brooker]

It's a LEAGUE policy! The media IS entitled as per LEAGUE RULES!

The Leafs play in MLS? wtf? I wasn't talking about just TFC. Read carefully before you bust out the outraged capslock.

[ManUtd4ever]

I supported both DeRo and Cann - they were lied to and felt cheated, as would any of us in the same situation. Fans want to see everything as an individual event, but the players talk to each other and know what's going on. So when Cann sees that DeRo got screwed over, and then finds out that he's getting screwed over too he's not only reacting to his situation but taking a stance vs a club that has a history and habit of lying to players.

How can you support their positions when they both had signed contracts?

In my mind there is no excuse for Cann walking out on the team that is under new management, especially considering the fact that Winter was still willing to grant him most of what was allegedly promised to him by MoJo, even though he wasn't contractually obligated to offer Cann anything at all.

Seriously. I agree that it was an underhanded maneuver by MoJo to make false promises to DeRo and Cann but these are grown men for crying out loud, and a signed contract is a signed contract, end of story.

If Cann and DeRo had issues with their contracts they have two people to blame, their agents, and themselves.

[Davenport]

I supported both DeRo and Cann - they were lied to and felt cheated, as would any of us in the same situation. Fans want to see everything as an individual event, but the players talk to each other and know what's going on. So when Cann sees that DeRo got screwed over, and then finds out that he's getting screwed over too he's not only reacting to his situation but taking a stance vs a club that has a history and habit of lying to players.

Screwed over ? Johnston may have lied to them and promised them the world, but that was never in writing. They were very naive to believe anything that shitbag said.
Don't forget they were both happy to sign their contracts when they did and they were both a short time into them when they started to complain.
Their performances were as expected, no more, but more importantly the team's results didn't improve, and to kick-off when they did was ill timed.

[v00d00daddy]

If I'm Winter I ask the brass to see if they're interested in taking a stand and paying fines.

If they're not...fine. That's reasonable.

Back to normal with the media I guess.

I would, however, encourage my players to give out as many "no comments" as humanly possible for every locker room interview and be as verbose as possible anywhere other than the locker room.

If Winter wants the locker room to be a place for the team only...then that should be his choice.

It's a stupid MLS rule that they may have to adhere to for now. But that doesn't mean that they have to like it, or be cordial hosts.

[mastermixer]

I really hope we can one day be talking more about the accomplishments of this club rather than the fumbles. It seems like it's one after the other with this team.
I'm sure word gets around the league pretty fast about all the BS that surrounds this team, to be honest I'm not sure if it's repairable or something we just have to accept until this team is run into the ground.

[Roogsy]

Well,he will give accsess to the room but players will not be there,he is not breaking the rule,say what you want.


Apparently he was...say what you want.

[Carts]

With the Cann situation, then Dero, then Winter barring the media from the room - you could hold a contest to "name this soap opera" ... :(

[werewolf]

^ Turmoil FC

[ManUtd4ever]

I won't get into the Cann thing specifically, but I don't understand the connection you're trying to show here. Winter's attempt at keeping media out of the locker room could also be seen as protecting the players, giving them some quiet space (i.e., the opposite of what you feel about the treatment of Cann). And Winter would have had this rule apply to himself, other coaches etc., as well as the players. He's not used to having media in the locker room; he finds it annoying, disruptive, and dangerous for the success of the club; and he is trying to reduce the amount of drama around the club. Apparently he was naive about being able to implement this rule -- but I don't see the connection.

Agreed.

[v00d00daddy]

With the Cann situation, then Dero, then Winter barring the media from the room - you could hold a contest to "name this soap opera" ... :(


Respectfully..the media situation is not nearly the dramatic story that the other two are.

The media story has been blown out of proportion around here.

Winter wanted to keep the media away from the locker room...not away from the team altogether.

It seemed like a reasonable thing to do if he thought it would help the team.

[Carts]

^ Turmoil FC

That's pretty good! :D

[Carts]

Respectfully..the media situation is not nearly the dramatic story that the other two are.

The media story has been blown out of proportion around here.

Winter wanted to keep the media away from the locker room...not away from the team altogether.

It seemed like a reasonable thing to do if he thought it would help the team.

I never said it was as big as the other two...

But everything adds up unfortunately...

Here's the shocking part; "something blown out of proportion? Here? On this site? In the Toronto media? NO! SURELY NO!!!!" :D

[v00d00daddy]

I never said it was as big as the other two...

But everything adds up unfortunately...

Here's the shocking part; "something blown out of proportion? Here? On this site? In the Toronto media? NO! SURELY NO!!!!" :D


Hahaha...true enough.

[kaos197O]

The Leafs play in MLS? wtf? I wasn't talking about just TFC. Read carefully before you bust out the outraged capslock.
Far from outraged and I apologize for misinterpreting your post. I thought you were speaking about the media with regards to the team that we are speaking of.

[ensco]

I don't understand the connection you're trying to show here.

He's not used to having media in the locker room; he finds it annoying, disruptive, and dangerous for the success of the club; and he is trying to reduce the amount of drama around the club.

The connection is that, in every case, his prime motive appears to be to tighten control over the club using authoritarian methods. It's always popular with a subset (maybe a significant subset) of the fans. I get that. This has been FC Hollywood of the North.

But Winter seems unhealthily obsessed by this. What do you think the players think?

We have to have talented people, with other options, actively choose to come here, for us to succeed.

I'll say it again:

We have to have talented people, with other options, actively choose to come here, for us to succeed.

For every Sir Alex, there's 25 guys who try this unsuccessfully.

[kaos197O]

So your telling me the league should go public before addresssing an issue with a team. Please!

Personally i say Send me the fines and keep the locker closed.
You never answered my questions and NO that is not what I implied.

[denime]

Apparently he was...say what you want.

I have nothing to say except I was wrong,Bush League struck again and we have to live with it.

[flatpicker]

I vote for team Winter... where's the poll?

[ManUtd4ever]

The connection is that, in every case, his prime motive appears to be to tighten control over the club using authoritarian methods. It's always popular with a subset (maybe a significant subset) of the fans. I get that. This has been FC Hollywood of the North.

But Winter seems unhealthily obsessed by this. What do you think the players think?

We have to have talented people, with other options, actively choose to come here, for us to succeed.

I'll say it again:

We have to have talented people, with other options, actively choose to come here, for us to succeed.

For every Sir Alex, there's 25 guys who try this unsuccessfully.

I agree with your sentiments, but isn't it premature to label Winter as a hard ass authoritarian?

What has Winter done that would discourage players from coming here?

Cann walked off the team (because of issues with previous management no less) so Winter made him apologize, and rightfully so. Some managers wouldn't have even taken a player back if they left the club while under contract.

Winter handled the DeRo controversy as well as can be expected considering that he inherited the situation.

DeRo and Cann were allegedly lied to and mistreated by the former regime, not the current regime.

Now Winter has tried to deflect attention from the players and shield them from unnecessary media scrutiny (because as you say, it's Hollywood North up here), he's overruled by the commissioner, and will be forced to adhere to a questionable MLS guideline.

So far, I have actually been quite impressed with the caliber of players that Winter and Mariner have brought in, and I don't expect that to change anytime soon because of this story or the fact that two players signed contracts they weren't happy with and were outspoken about their discontent.

[bdiddy]

I'm confused... are people ripping on Winter now for causing discontent with the team?

Because Cann decided he wanted a new contract and Dero decided he wanted more money?

[babone]

You never answered my questions and NO that is not what I implied.

I see what your saying in regard to winter sending out the leter with out consulting the league, and your right.

But Garber being the commish imo should set the example in regards to addressing the team before the public.

[ensco]

I'm confused... are people ripping on Winter now for causing discontent with the team?

No. Just think Winter's going to get a bad rep if he's not careful. You can only lay down the law so often in life.

[Auzzy]

^ But is there a chance that in this situation, many players might actually be happy that he attempted to "lay down the law" with the media?

[Whoop]

No. Just think Winter's going to get a bad rep if he's not careful. You can only lay down the law so often in life.

I agree with that sentiment. That's what caused the players to tune out Preki.

But Winter has to indicate to the players that he is the new boss. So he has to picks his battles.

It all depends on how he responds to this. Like Auzzy stated, maybe this fight was one for the players?

[ensco]

^ But is there a chance that in this situation, many players might actually be happy that he attempted to "lay down the law" with the media?

Yes, I know you are right. Some guys will like it because they don't like interviews.

But the league has this rule for a reason - without this rule, every player would become even more of an automaton, because then they will have been told what to say by the coach. Which I believe is the main reason Winter wants to do this.

(Others will say otherwise, he wants to preserve the sanctity of the room like they do in Europe. I don't agree. Lots of things are different here, get over it.)

I am making a subtle point. In the long run, organizations that treat men like children don't succeed, mostly.

[Whoop]

Yes, I know you are right. Some guys will like it because they don't like interviews.

But the league has this rule for a reason - without this rule, every player would become even more of an automaton, because then they will have been told what to say by the coach. Which I believe is the main reason Winter wants to do this.

(Others will say otherwise, he wants to preserve the sanctity of the room like they do in Europe. I don't agree. Lots of things are different here, get over it.)

I am making a subtle point. In the long run, organizations that treat men like children don't succeed, mostly.

95% of athletes already are regardless of media access or not.

[Auzzy]

I agree that different players would view this initiative differently. Some like the media more than others. Some might even be impressed by the North American dressing room media storm, if they're used to it from big North-American sports.

But automaton? Who has been told to say what by Winter, as per his letter to the media? Winter wanted the interviews held in the gym & elsewhere, rather than in the locker room. That's what this is about. (And as Whoopee mentioned, most player interviews are pretty vapid anyway.)

Probably Winter will also give the guys tips on what to say & what not, in the context of acting like a team. I'm sure previous coaches/managers have tried the same -- on this team & many others. But it has still been MUCH more loosely controlled than in most other corporate environments -- and even compared with many other sports teams. (I realize players are also celebrities to some degree -- so the situation isn't totally comparable to other corporate environments, where such shit storms are largely unheard of.)

Media & issues management has been a total disaster with TFC for a long time -- some of it because there's been lots of turmoil in the organization -- but some of it because there's lots of interest & media competition, where even minor issues can be made into a huge deal to sell stories. And also because it fits into a general narrative of "Toronto sports suck, MLSE sucks" (which, even if true, is not always the issue).

Whereas some really interesting things about the actual football, never get asked or reported...

Do you have info about Winter being generally authoritarian (towards the players), more than an average coach would be? That's not the impression I got from a variety of stories, interviews with players & management, etc. On the media side, he's also been dealing with some pretty sticky situations since he got here.

[ManUtd4ever]

I agree that different players would view this initiative differently. Some like the media more than others. Some might even be impressed by the North American dressing room media storm, if they're used to it from big North-American sports.

But automaton? Who has been told to say what by Winter, as per his letter to the media? Winter wanted the interviews held in the gym & elsewhere, rather than in the locker room. That's what this is about. (And as Whoopee mentioned, most player interviews are pretty vapid anyway.)

Probably Winter will also give the guys tips on what to say & what not, in the context of acting like a team. I'm sure previous coaches/managers have tried the same -- on this team & many others. But it has still been MUCH more loosely controlled than in most other corporate environments -- and even compared with many other sports teams. (I realize players are also celebrities to some degree -- so the situation isn't totally comparable to other corporate environments, where such shit storms are largely unheard of.)

Media & issues management has been a total disaster with TFC for a long time -- some of it because there's been lots of turmoil in the organization -- but some of it because there's lots of interest & media competition, where even minor issues can be made into a huge deal to sell stories. And also because it fits into a general narrative of "Toronto sports suck, MLSE sucks" (which, even if true, is not always the issue).

Whereas some really interesting things about the actual football, never get asked or reported...

Do you have info about Winter being generally authoritarian (towards the players), more than an average coach would be? That's not the impression I got from a variety of stories, interviews with players & management, etc. On the media side, he's also been dealing with some pretty sticky situations since he got here.

Well said.

[Whoop]

I wonder if TFC offers a PR seminar for new players to NA on how to deal with NA media?

[Banjax]

Don't understand why there is a rule stating they need access to the locker room, what exactly is the difference if they do it in the gym or even the parking lot for that matter pretty sure the media does not care where they do an interview as long as they get the answers they want. If a team wants some privacy why not give them that small piece of safe land for them to walk around and not be asked what they think of the 4-3-3 or how the team made some sort of mistake this week. I mean at this point why not just let them shower off with a hose on the pitch and then do interviews out there.

[ensco]

Do you have info about Winter being generally authoritarian (towards the players), more than an average coach would be? That's not the impression I got from a variety of stories, interviews with players & management, etc. On the media side, he's also been dealing with some pretty sticky situations since he got here.

I agree he inherited a mess. I "know" nothing. I'm only seeing the same interviews etc that you're seeing. The Cann one in particular, that got my spidey sense going. It's not the way I would have liked it handled. Of course Winter did better with Dero. Easy to be a Monday morning quarterback I guess.

I'm seeing it a little differently, is all. He needs control, of course, but he's supposed to be a teacher, and good teachers take control by using demonstrating their total mastery of the subject, in my experience.

Here's hoping my worries amount to nothing.

Also, re the lame coverage of the team, omg, don't get me started. I've bleated on about it elsewhere!

[Auzzy]

^ Cheers! Here's hoping the worries subside, and we start reading some interesting stories about tactics (and maybe even some about wins & other good news) at some point....

I really wonder how Winter will react to the league -- and I really hope that Winter (or, where appropriate, Mariner) are the only ones talking about it. Not you-know-who or the others...

Interesting that there's no news from the practice today. Maybe that will be the new normal? I somehow doubt that the media will be getting any more news than they have previously, at least for a few weeks. I also looked around the MLS team websites a bit. I wonder if there's any team that has as many updates and interviews, directly from the team, and throughout the week? Other websites might have a story or two per day, written about one player or some other subject. But much less video, far fewer interviews, etc.

[babone]

Looking at this situation as a whole, is it fair to say that if Winter fails it would have a negative effect on future coaches/technical staff coming to MLS from europe.

[backbeat]

I agree he inherited a mess. I "know" nothing. I'm only seeing the same interviews etc that you're seeing. The Cann one in particular, that got my spidey sense going. It's not the way I would have liked it handled. Of course Winter did better with Dero. Easy to be a Monday morning quarterback I guess.

I'm seeing it a little differently, is all. He needs control, of course, but he's supposed to be a teacher, and good teachers take control by using demonstrating their total mastery of the subject, in my experience.

Here's hoping my worries amount to nothing.

Also, re the lame coverage of the team, omg, don't get me started. I've bleated on about it elsewhere!


interesting how things are perceived - I saw Winter as protecting/supporting Cann in that interview where he apologized. Winter interjected to say something like let's talk about the future that is in the past. to me it was like Cann was going to get bombarded by the questions and Winter stood beside him and they got it over with. i thought it was handled brilliantly and supportively.

i'm really impressed with the way Winter has dealt with touchy situations - DeRo included - i've found Winter sincere, clear and direct...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yeah i gotta agree with backbeat on that

[ensco]

Looking at this situation as a whole, is it fair to say that if Winter fails it would have a negative effect on future coaches/technical staff coming to MLS from europe.

I believe this already has a name: the "Ruud Gullit effect"

[ensco]

interesting how things are perceived - I saw Winter as protecting/supporting Cann in that interview where he apologized. Winter interjected to say something like let's talk about the future that is in the past. to me it was like Cann was going to get bombarded by the questions and Winter stood beside him and they got it over with. i thought it was handled brilliantly and supportively.

i'm really impressed with the way Winter has dealt with touchy situations - DeRo included - i've found Winter sincere, clear and direct...

But it's not just that Winter was there - why was Cann doing that publicly at all?

[ochos]

Read through the first 4 pages or so and read a lot of intelligent, unbiased dialogue from all sides of the issue. Hope the next 10 or so didn't decay into negative bashing and arguing - it's refreshing. I think most of us like Winter's idea, if not at least temporarily, to help this team focus and not be subjected to the last 4 years of rubbish.

Close thread.. wish we could not blow this up and have it all blow over quickly

[backbeat]

^^ why? because he had to.

Adrian left the team and came back - he was bound to be grilled by the media - there is no doubt. i see it that Winter helped him by taking the heat off and standing shoulder to shoulder with him and even stepped in to say let's talk about the future - he helped Cann through it.

[babone]

^^ why? because he had to.

Adrian left the team and came back - he was bound to be grilled by the media - there is no doubt. i see it that Winter helped him by taking the heat off and standing shoulder to shoulder with him and even stepped in to say let's talk about the future - he helped Cann through it.

Got to agree here, I would think Cann is not the most polished with media I think he would have been fried.

[ensco]

My question isn't why he spoke to the media, it's why he was forced to make a public apology. Winter standing there only made it worse.

[babone]

Where would Garber stand in support with other clubs? The reason I ask is it possible that MLSE/Winter/Marnier released the letter knowing the league would object.

I guess what I'm asking is it possible that not everyone agree's with the DON and this issue and is there more behind the scenes?

[johnmolinaro]

Interesting that there's no news from the practice today. Maybe that will be the new normal?.

Actually, the team doesn't practice on Wednesdays - traditionally it's always been the players' day off.

JM

[CretanBull]

I wonder if TFC offers a PR seminar for new players to NA on how to deal with NA media?

I'd guess no...and suggest that TFC get PR training themselves!

[CretanBull]

How can you support their positions when they both had signed contracts?

In my mind there is no excuse for Cann walking out on the team that is under new management, especially considering the fact that Winter was still willing to grant him most of what was allegedly promised to him by MoJo, even though he wasn't contractually obligated to offer Cann anything at all.

Seriously. I agree that it was an underhanded maneuver by MoJo to make false promises to DeRo and Cann but these are grown men for crying out loud, and a signed contract is a signed contract, end of story.

If Cann and DeRo had issues with their contracts they have two people to blame, their agents, and themselves.


Screwed over ? Johnston may have lied to them and promised them the world, but that was never in writing. They were very naive to believe anything that shitbag said.
Don't forget they were both happy to sign their contracts when they did and they were both a short time into them when they started to complain.
Their performances were as expected, no more, but more importantly the team's results didn't improve, and to kick-off when they did was ill timed.

I'm not going to rehash everything all over again. They signed the contracts that they had to sign under the circumstances - there were promises made to each of them that weren't kept. I think the club should be held accountable to their word and honour their promises. If you don't feel the same way, I understand. If you wanna be a by the book, law and order type where promises that are made don't count for shit unless they're in writing and support a club that lies to players to get them to commit to playing here then stop wondering why we can't attact better players - because they see things MUCH differently than you do.

[DichioTFC]

My congratulations to John Molinaro. Your pointless, groundless complaint got the result you wanted; possibly to the detriment to the club (as per Winter).

Looking forward to your articles, I'm sure the post-game sound bites that you worked so hard to get will be quality time in and time out and not just a one-off thing (i.e. DeRo cheque signing, like you keep mentioning over and over). I'm sure your presence in the locker room as a nuisance is well worth the quality articles these post-game soundbites will provide.

[CretanBull]

My congratulations to John Molinaro. Your pointless, groundless complaint got the result you wanted; possibly to the detriment to the club (as per Winter).

Looking forward to your articles, I'm sure the post-game sound bites that you worked so hard to get will be quality time in and time out and not just a one-off thing (i.e. DeRo cheque signing, like you keep mentioning over and over). I'm sure your presence in the locker room as a nuisance is well worth the quality articles these post-game soundbites will provide.

A little unfair don't you think? Reporters here were just asking for the league's rules to be applied fairly to every team - including Toronto. If TFC (or any other club) doesn't like the rule then they should work to change it.

[backbeat]

My question isn't why he spoke to the media, it's why he was forced to make a public apology. Winter standing there only made it worse.

no Winter standing beside him, supporting him, made it easier for him.

adrian was absolutely going to be asked repeatedly by the media when he showed his face to explain himself.

to come out together, apologize and get it over with was the best and fastest way to deal with it. and Winter stood with him and told the media to get on with it and look forward, it was done with...and when you watch it, that is exactly what happened. the questions stopped and they moved on....

it was really well handled...

[backbeat]

A little unfair don't you think? Reporters here were just asking for the league's rules to be applied fairly to every team - including Toronto. If TFC (or any other club) doesn't like the rule then they should work to change it.

no it's not unfair, actually i agree - Winter was not saying they wouldn't have access - JM didn't even give it a chance to see how it might act out instead he made sure to file a formal complaint with the league.

not impressed but i guess he got what he wanted and forced Winter's hand from protecting his players sanctum....what a proud day for the media and free speech....too bad the Toronto media can't ask the clear cut questions when they have the opportunity. maybe if they did we might have understood the DeRo situation a long time ago.....

[mdc 77]

no it's not unfair, actually i agree - Winter was not saying they wouldn't have access - JM didn't even give it a chance to see how it might act out instead he made sure to file a formal complaint with the league.

not impressed but i guess he got what he wanted and forced Winter's hand from protecting his players sanctum....what a proud day for the media and free speech....too bad the Toronto media can't ask the clear cut questions when they have the opportunity. maybe if they did we might have understood the DeRo situation a long time ago.....

I don't really understand this point of view. Its simple, its an MLS rule...media must be allowed in. No grey area there.

I may agree with Winter but doesn't change the fact that it is a rule, no need to debate this.

[CretanBull]

no it's not unfair, actually i agree - Winter was not saying they wouldn't have access - JM didn't even give it a chance to see how it might act out instead he made sure to file a formal complaint with the league.

not impressed but i guess he got what he wanted and forced Winter's hand from protecting his players sanctum....what a proud day for the media and free speech....too bad the Toronto media can't ask the clear cut questions when they have the opportunity. maybe if they did we might have understood the DeRo situation a long time ago.....

Winter's decision was a violation of league rules. Should he also be allowed to give our player steroids?

[nascarguy]

I 100% agree with winter the league rules suck.

[kaos197O]

My congratulations to John Molinaro. Your pointless, groundless complaint got the result you wanted; possibly to the detriment to the club (as per Winter).

Looking forward to your articles, I'm sure the post-game sound bites that you worked so hard to get will be quality time in and time out and not just a one-off thing (i.e. DeRo cheque signing, like you keep mentioning over and over). I'm sure your presence in the locker room as a nuisance is well worth the quality articles these post-game soundbites will provide.
A pointless, groundless complaint does not get results if it is indeed pointless and groundless.

Detriment to the club? Too funny man! Thanks for the laugh. :D

[Auzzy]

Actually, the team doesn't practice on Wednesdays - traditionally it's always been the players' day off.

JM

Good point. I got confused based on this article: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04/attakora-stevanovic-train-tuesday
and thought there would be one more training session before heading to San Jose. (Kept checking today.) We shall see how things go from here. Hopefully we won't end up with the league-mandated minimum media availability; with generally less cooperative interviewees; and/or with more things released only via their in-house media. Although I almost expect it. Despite some struggles with the language compared with TFC's previous coaches, up to now I felt we quite often got some useful info out of Winter & Co.

[denime]

Winter's decision was a violation of league rules. Should he also be allowed to give our player steroids?

really, you compare this with steroids :picard:

[backbeat]

I don't really understand this point of view. Its simple, its an MLS rule...media must be allowed in. No grey area there.

I may agree with Winter but doesn't change the fact that it is a rule, no need to debate this.

i understand that the media must be allowed access - i just think winter was protecting a sanctum for his players but still allowing media access within 15 minutes - to me it was no big deal - i understand he was 'stretching/breaking' the rules - why our media had to jump all over it immediately and not 'see it out' first is beyond me.

i say this because on the whole i find they ask inane questions that don't get to the core of issues when they have the opportunity - but this??? oh WOW a really big issue, must file a formal complaint.

[denime]

Good point. I got confused based on this article: http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04/attakora-stevanovic-train-tuesday
and thought there would be one more training session before heading to San Jose. (Kept checking today.) We shall see how things go from here. Hopefully we won't end up with the league-mandated minimum media availability; with generally less cooperative interviewees; and/or with more things released only via their in-house media. Although I almost expect it. Despite some struggles with the language compared with TFC's previous coaches, up to now I felt we quite often got some useful info out of Winter & Co.

Actually I do hope it will end up just like that.If coach thinks this will help his team,then by all means,bear minimum.

[Auzzy]

^ You're just hoping for that so you'll have less work posting the news in the morning. ;) ;)


Anyways, I agree that what coach thinks is good for the team, is generally a good idea -- if possible. Just up to now, they didn't have a problem with providing all that extra media & obviously didn't find it to be detrimental. Basically my comment was a bit of an underhanded swipe.... ;)

[denime]

I don't really understand this point of view. Its simple, its an MLS rule...media must be allowed in. No grey area there.

I may agree with Winter but doesn't change the fact that it is a rule, no need to debate this.

6.11.2 Post-Game Media Access.
A Head Coach may keep the locker room closed to the media for the purpose of a post-Game Team meeting for no more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the Game (determined by the Referee's whistle) of Teams will remain on site for a minimum of FORTY (45) minutes after the conclusion of the Game for interview purposes. Violations of this policy may result in fines to the offending party.

So if Winter opens locker room 10 minutes after and tells players to go to the gym,now what?

[denime]

^ You're just hoping for that so you'll have less work posting the news in the morning. ;) ;)


Anyways, I agree that what coach thinks is good for the team, is generally a good idea -- if possible. Just up to now, they didn't have a problem with providing all that extra media & obviously didn't find it to be detrimental. Basically my comment was a bit of an underhanded swipe.... ;)

And that's why we are North Hollywood FC.

Winter wants to stop all that circus around the team so boys can concantare on their job,but apparently bush league like the soap operas and circus surrounding this team.:facepalm:

[CretanBull]

really, you compare this with steroids :picard:

If we were allowed to ignore some rules then I'd be in favour of ignoring the salary cap rule and see us bring in a team of All-Stars, or maybe ignore the rule that limits us to 11 men on the pitch, maybe Winter thinks it would help our club if he could make 6 substitutions per game?

Of course these are absurd examples, but the league has rules that each team has to follow - we don't get to pick and chose which rules we follow.

If Winter was DeRo people would be up in arms "He signed a contract! He knew what the league rules were when he signed the contract! If he didn't he was naive, and that's his fault! No one is bigger than the league! You can't just ignore league rules because you don't want to follow them!"

[Ossington Mental Youth]

6.11.2 Post-Game Media Access.
A Head Coach may keep the locker room closed to the media for the purpose of a post-Game Team meeting for no more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the more than TEN (10) minutes from the end of the Game (determined by the Referee's whistle) of Teams will remain on site for a minimum of FORTY (45) minutes after the conclusion of the Game for interview purposes. Violations of this policy may result in fines to the offending party.

So if Winter opens locker room 10 minutes after and tells players to go to the gym,now what?


yeah this is what ive been thinking

[backbeat]

If we were allowed to ignore some rules then I'd be in favour of ignoring the salary cap rule and see us bring in a team of All-Stars, or maybe ignore the rule that limits us to 11 men on the pitch, maybe Winter thinks it would help our club if he could make 6 substitutions per game?

Of course these are absurd examples, but the league has rules that each team has to follow - we don't get to pick and chose which rules we follow.

If Winter was DeRo people would be up in arms "He signed a contract! He knew what the league rules were when he signed the contract! If he didn't he was naive, and that's his fault! No one is bigger than the league! You can't just ignore league rules because you don't want to follow them!"

this is over the top

none the less i understand the league had to step in only because our media forced their hand by filing a formal complaint. otherwise i don't think anything would have happened.

i blame our media for not holding back and seeing what might have occurred, what kind of access they actually had to the players going forward.

no instead they had to make a big f'n deal out of it...they must be proud they finally broke some news!!

[boozilla]

no instead they had to make a big f'n deal out of it...
Agreed. Bitching on fan boards & sending a formal complaint to MLS?
Maybe the media culture needs a change.

[spark]

none the less i understand the league had to step in only because our media forced their hand by filing a formal complaint. otherwise i don't think anything would have happened.

I seriously doubt that. If nobody here said anything you can bet at some point another team would have found out and gone to Garber asking why we get to bend the rules and they don't. The league has to stamp that kind of stuff out because you can't have 18 teams all tweaking the rules to suit their individual preferences.

[backbeat]

I seriously doubt that. If nobody here said anything you can bet at some point another team would have found out and gone to Garber asking why we get to bend the rules and they don't. The league has to stamp that kind of stuff out because you can't have 18 teams all tweaking the rules to suit their individual preferences.

i doubt it

if the media had access to the players and there were no issues but it wasn't in the dressing room - i really don't think anyone would have cared.

my point is why did our media make such a big issue of it before waiting to see the result?

as i've observed before, they ask the most inane questions when true supporters are looking for a lot more insight - i still have yet to hear a reporter ask about Bouchiba - let alone a direct question to DeRo about his contract offers or DP status or to TFC as to whether they tried to get DP status but were refused by MLS etc. etc. etc.....

they don't probe at all but THIS??? they go all out for it....bullshit...

[CretanBull]

I don't know why you think that the league would have ignored one of its teams breaking league policy...

[backbeat]

I don't know why you think that the league would have ignored one of its teams breaking league policy...

i think that because i believe that if our media had not drawn attention to it by filing a formal complaint the league office might have waited to see if it was a big deal or not gaged by whether the media had adequate access to the players or not.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I wonder if this is a cunning Mourinho-esque stratagem on the part of Winter to deflect criticism away from the players and brutal recent performance?

[ilikemusic]

Media in the dressing room is stupid. We all know this.

The problem here is that this is just another in a long list of examples that exposes an organization operating by the seat of it's pants, and consistently failing to make decisions with any kind of foresight.

Whether you think Molinaro and the other ink stained wretches deserve to be in the locker room, or whether they even need to be in there at all, it isn't really relevant. In North America, the sports press does their job a particular way, and they will write stories if a team attempts to change that.

As it is, regardless of your stance on locker room access, or whiny reporters, this entire issue could have been avoided if this fucking club would have just called up MLS and said "hey, were thinking of altering the specifics of our media relations operations in order to help foster a more professional organizational culture and we have some proposals we would like to have a discussion with you about".

Instead, Winter and whoever else made this decsion just said "Fuck em! Lets do it! We'll see if Garber's got the stones to step in.".

Its typical TFC business though. :rolleyes:

[CretanBull]

i think that because i believe that if our media had not drawn attention to it by filing a formal complaint the league office might have waited to see if it was a big deal or not gaged by whether the media had adequate access to the players or not.

I think that's extremely wishfull thinking to be honest. Nothing in Garber's remarks had any hint of that, he was emphatic in stressing the importance of the media's access to locker rooms in North America's sports culture, and further pointed out the "rule are rules" - teams don't get to pick and chose which ones they follow. The odds that they'd be willing to look the other way seem like slim to none to me.

[Whoop]

I wonder if this is a cunning Mourinho-esque stratagem on the part of Winter to deflect criticism away from the players and brutal recent performance?

I think Winter used this for deflection for a while.

Saw deVos' tongue in cheek tweet about "no issue with media access in Vancouver".

[CretanBull]

I think Winter used this for deflection for a while.

Saw deVos' tongue in cheek tweet about "no issue with media access in Vancouver".


If he's that smart (and he could be!) then we've got a very, very good manager on our hands.

[Whoop]

It's a tactic used by other coaches, and sometimes players (remember Mark Recchi?).

I mean the DeRo story is still a pretty big story that won't go away but for the time being not all 100% of the attention is on the DeRo trade, or some subpar performances of some players. So some ink has been spilled covering this "locker room ban" which really wasn't a locker room ban, just more of a change of venue.

It's not like media was banned from talking to players.

I mean just imagine the shit storm if it was a total locker room ban? But that would be a way bigger issue/fight.

[CretanBull]

^Its definitely possible, and (for the most part) people sided with the team and rallied behind Winter. If it was a tactic then he's extremely wise for a young coach.

[Whoop]

But like someone mentioned... he can't go to that well too often.

[CretanBull]

But like someone mentioned... he can't go to that well too often.

Sir Alex has been doing it for 25 years and people keep falling for it!

[Fort York Redcoat]

I wonder if this is a cunning Mourinho-esque stratagem on the part of Winter to deflect criticism away from the players and brutal recent performance?

It's twofold.

It restricts or delays the criticism but now Winter has drawn a line in the sand that gives the entire team an "Us vs The rest of the league" mentality. There may be a difference between the league and the other teams in the league but the mentality works for the team either way to give that underdog work ethic a chance to flourish.

[Oldtimer]

It's twofold.

It restricts or delays the criticism but now Winter has drawn a line in the sand that gives the entire team an "Us vs The rest of the league" mentality. There may be a difference between the league and the other teams in the league but the mentality works for the team either way to give that underdog work ethic a chance to flourish.

Interesting point!

[Beach_Red]

Media in the dressing room is stupid. We all know this.

The problem here is that this is just another in a long list of examples that exposes an organization operating by the seat of it's pants, and consistently failing to make decisions with any kind of foresight.

Whether you think Molinaro and the other ink stained wretches deserve to be in the locker room, or whether they even need to be in there at all, it isn't really relevant. In North America, the sports press does their job a particular way, and they will write stories if a team attempts to change that.

As it is, regardless of your stance on locker room access, or whiny reporters, this entire issue could have been avoided if this fucking club would have just called up MLS and said "hey, were thinking of altering the specifics of our media relations operations in order to help foster a more professional organizational culture and we have some proposals we would like to have a discussion with you about".

Instead, Winter and whoever else made this decsion just said "Fuck em! Lets do it! We'll see if Garber's got the stones to step in.".

Its typical TFC business though. :rolleyes:

Yes, it could have easily been avoided. That's why we're hoping it was a strategy. Otherwise...

[Lucky Strike]

The bit about this being a strategy makes sense. Because why wouldn't have someone (even an intern) looked up in the rulebook whether Winter could close the dressing room to the media in the first place? Then we wouldn't have had this symbal show (i.e. a minor gong show) to deal with.

[Yohan]

it's easier to ask for forgiveness than ask for forgiveness? lol

[JonO]

Meh - I really don't get what the big deal is. Tried and failed. End of story really. I doubt many outside of this little forum care. And to those who complain about the rule-breaking, I guess you have never sipped tea at a tailgate?

[bgnewf]

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/04/aron-winter-vs-the-media/

Aron Winter vs The Media

My thoughts on the controversy surrounding Aron Winter banning media from the TFC locker room last week.

[Gazza]

I'm glad this was resolved. I don't know what i would've done if i couldn't see half-naked men saying profound things as "total team effort" and "110 percent!"

[Shakes McQueen]

TFC should just build a secret second locker room underneath the current one - players have to pull a certain book off a shelf, and it makes one of the walls slide back, revealing the hidden entrance.

- Scott

[denime]

I'm glad this was resolved. I don't know what i would've done if i couldn't see half-naked men saying profound things as "total team effort" and "110 percent!"

LOL :drum:

[rocker]

I'm glad this was resolved. I don't know what i would've done if i couldn't see half-naked men saying profound things as "total team effort" and "110 percent!"

I now want a story in the paper with the statistics on how many TFC players are circumsized. I need to know!

[denime]

I now want a story in the paper with the statistics on how many TFC players are circumsized. I need to know!

And what about lenght,media boys should measure it and let us know,now that we know media has full acsess to the locker room that's minimum they can do for us.I want to know who is real capetan in that team.:yum:

I would like to read Cathal's and Weehlers article about this only,other guys can write about the game.

[greatwhitenorf]

Media gossip suggests Michael Essien swings a beer can. Our female supporters will delight in such details.

[Wull]

Nice article today John, although I disagree with the last bit. Hitting the post and having a perfectly good goal disallowed for no reason would be unlucky

[SweetOwnGoal]

Note: this is cross-posted to U-Sector and thus has some U-Sector reference. Also, U-Sector knows me very well so it's a bit casual.

I hesitate to get into this.

Although most of you know me as the fat, bald alcoholic that's good for 2-3 own goals a year in USI/OL, I am also a trained journalist. I know. I even have done a little sport writing. Oh, and I'm stuck covering this team until the Marlies beat opens up and allows me to go back to the front of 113 and slowly kill myself with substances.

So, yeah, I have some thoughts.

Couple things first:

1) I'm well aware of the utter stupidity of 99% of post game stuff. I'm not all that sure why we still do it.

2) I would never, ever compare what I do with a real job. My father was a cop. That's work. I watch sports for money. That's pretty much a sign that western civilization is doomed.

So, that out of the way let me address this from the journalist’s perspective.

Although lacking in redeeming qualities and owing to an utterly un-transferable skill-set, sports writing is really fucking competitive. That's not to say there aren't some (a lot?) of journos that are a bit, um, challenged, but it is to suggest that getting a job watching sports for a living is something that a lot of people want to do, think they can do better than you and are willing to do for stupid low wages.

There are less full-time pro sports beat writing jobs in North America than there are jobs as pro athletes. Although not a direct comparison (being an athlete is a true meritocracy, sports writing has lots of politics and luck involved), you could make the argument that it's harder to become a pro sports beat writer than it is to become a pro athlete. Less impressive to the ladies (have you seen the journalism groupies -- shockingly they do exist, but we're talking Sporty Spice versus a threesome with Scarlett Johansson and Natalie Portman. Wait, what? Where was I? Oh yeah, the access issue...), but more difficult to obtain.

Again - I AM A DRAG ON SOCIETY. However, trying to hit deadline with an impatient editor text messaging you every five seconds and 10 other guys -- catty guys often -- trying to show you up with ANYTHING...it can be stressful. There are, after all, 15 guys that want my job. I need to get stuff.

So, I'm reluctant to give up anything that *might* lead to a story. As long as access is equal (no room for all) then, you're right, it really isn't *that* big of a deal. It's fair. I *can* do my job. However, I'm not sure you, the fan/reader is being best served.

Stay with me...

AGAIN -- 99% of the shit athletes say is beyond useless. "Give it 110%, one day at a time, blah, blah, blah." But, we go down there game after game (and trust me, I don't want to see Dan Gargan's penis anymore than the rest of you -- exceptions to that desire are well known; no need to repeat it here -- but what I do want to see is how Dan Gargan is getting along with the coaches and other players and whether he has a copy of "Asian handicapping for Dummies" in his locker beside the rail of cocaine -- please note: Dan Gargan DOES NOT have these things at his locker).

Long story short - Dressing room access gives me a better chance of finding something interesting that, in turn, *you* might find interesting. As I've said 4,765 times elsewhere a reporter is really just a proxy for the fan. We go places that you can't and, if we're good, provide you with insight that enhances your enjoyment of the game. When you deny reporters access, you're really denying the fans access.

The most serious line I will write in this here: I have a big problem with that. I think giving the fans a little bit of insight into the club is the least they can do. They make a lot of money playing a game (yes, even MLS players -- how many of us here make six figures - that's the median).

Trust me folks, I'd rather be drinking with your sorry lot than doing this. However, I recognize that this is one way that I might actually provide the world a service that, if not important, is at least entertaining.

I wrote this at 2 a.m.: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/toro...source=MLS+News (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/torontos-adjustments-pay-san-jose?utm_source=MLS+News)

It took forever because I had to wait until the team got back to the hotel. That's why I'm still up.. It's not all that fun, nor as interesting as it could be. But, anyway. Although it's not a perfect example since I'm not in San Jose, it does illustrate why timely access is important. If I get into the room, the story is filled 90 minutes earlier and online at 2am, rather than 4am, when its targeted audience has gone to bed/hooked up with someone they are going to regret in the morning. In the instant news cycle that's problematic and it will drive traffic away and thus not generate as much revenue. Bottom line stuff that's not interesting or important to the reader, but vital to understanding the journalist’s position here. The industry is not strong enough to give up any revenue. So, TFC's decision was impacting bottom lines (in theory anyway).

Big picture stuff - society does need journalists. We may lack ethics, smell and are generally annoying, but every so often we report really important stuff that ends up changing the world. Not in the Toy Department, but the Toy Department is a revenue producing part of the industry. This argument is a tad bit self-important for me to continue right now, but buy me a beer one day and I'll continue my thoughts. We're better off with media, bottom line and media needs to be profitable to be good.

I'll wrap here, but before we do let's look at what I produced post game. Is it of any use? Let's look at the quotes alone.

Winter: “The first half was not good. We needed to make changes.”
"(Nana) was not in the game"
"Julian is a good player, but in this league you have to be careful. He’s come a long way. We have to go slowly.”

Mostly dull as paint. Like Winter. That's his job, or at least how he sees it with the media. But the comment about Nana kind of jumps out. Especially when you realize he said the same thing after Chivas

Gordon: “Aron kind of went at us at half time,” Gordon said by phone from San Jose. “[He told us] that the commitment wasn’t there.”
From what I’ve seen, I think that (JDG) changed the game,” Gordon said. “His ability to control the midfield was and drive possession was vital.”
"When guys see the big money they tend to want the player to score a lot of goals and to be creative offensively,” he said. “That’s not the role of a holding midfielder, but what he does out there is so important.”

Note: I really like Gordon.

He paints a picture -- it's a bit cliché, the ranting coach inspiring the troops, but still. Some fans may enjoy being told of some (albeit minor and predictable) behind the scenes stuff.

I'm different from many journalists in that I'll fully admit my bias and agenda. I lead him into those JDG quotes. Why? That Julian isn't a goal scorer is a lesson this fan base really needs to learn. He gave me the "changed the game" stuff by himself though.

Lastly JDG: “It was good,” he said. “It’s another 45 minutes and it helps with the confidence. What’s more important is there was no pain though
"“Tonight was a positive point,” he said. “We are getting better.”

Julian: great player (at times). Terrible quote. I needed to quote him if I was going to write about him though. Journalist 101.

So, did that story add anything to the narrative. I think it does in the fleeting way that any deadline writing does. It sets up two main storylines that I will follow this week. 1) What the fuck is wrong with Nana and 2) Can Julian lead this team under a system seemingly designed for him. If you read me all the time, you'll see how those stories evolve and your understanding of the club will increase.

Do I need the dressing room for that? No. But, why would I willingly give it up?

[sulfur]

Not to ignore your entire comment and discussion that was written way too early in the morning/late at night, but...


Do I need the dressing room for that? No. But, why would I willingly give it up?
And what if "dressing room access" was turned into "media room access" at the same 15 minutes post-game?

The thing that I've seen here is that every journalist that has pointed out the need to keep access has also stated that they need dressing room access, and suggests (in an unwritten way) that having access to all 18 players (etc) elsewhere is not sufficient.

The other thing that never comes up relates to your comment about "Gargan's penis". Really, do we want to invade on their privacy in such a way? That also really limits who can go into that dressing room. Ten minutes from the final whistle (which is the MLS rule, despite what is written on the signs) is not much time to:
* shake hands with the other team
* thank your fans
* get back to the dressing room
* get a quick post-game comment from the coach
* get undressed
* shower
* begin getting dressed.

From past experience, the 10 minutes usually comes up around the middle of the post-game comment from the coach (which coincides with the getting undressed bit). It also seems (this year) that all of the players are going to the gym to bike (as per past interviews), which pushes that time even further along...

I know that we're in an instant gratification culture here, but forcing journos into the dressing room post game puts the athletes in an uncomfortable position (changing, etc), and puts the journos into a potentially uncomfortable and awkward position. Can you really invite a female reporter into a men's change room while the men are changing?

What about a male into the Canadian National Women's dressing room immediately post game while they're all changing?

[Huyton]

Post game coverage from San Jose seemed to have taken place in a gym, using a TFC backdrop.

Is TFC making a point here?

There are also two mistakes on TFCs web site this morning:

1) Made Our Point (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04/road-point-reds) - Gorodon's goal earns TFC a 1-1 away draw (sic). Yes, it looks like the guy who writes the headlines on the web site either doesn't know how to spell GORDON, or he needs a new keyboard.
2) http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/04/road-point-reds says: "The Quakes next travel to New York on April 16 to take on the Red Bulls, while Toronto return home to host D.C. United on the same day." Has the LA game been cancelled?
:picard:

[SweetOwnGoal]

Not to ignore your entire comment and discussion that was written way too early in the morning/late at night, but...


And what if "dressing room access" was turned into "media room access" at the same 15 minutes post-game?

The difference is that the latter gives me the tools to do my job and the former the tools to do it well.

The most important skill for a journalist is a keen sense of observation. As the "media room" would be an artificial environment, it wouldn't produce much to observe. Those that point out that most post game stuff is mundane are right. If you do the interviews in a media room they'd be even worse -- cliché central because the whole act of going to that space would put the players in a certain frame of 110% one day at a time mind.

Since the players "live" in their dressing room it's a more natural environment for them. That, in turn, makes them more likely to be candid -- especially if the face asking the question is known to them. There are also all kinds of dynamics at play in a dressing room that a good journalist can pick up on and use to enhance their coverage. Not all of that is reported -- much of it is background stuff that is used to increase the reports knowledge and understanding of the team. That, in turn, allows them to tell better stories -- stories that go beyond cliché.

A direct example: The 2009 dressing room was divided and there was leadership gap. Although no one was writing "The Canadians hate the Americans and no one is a leader" it was understood what the problems basically were. That, in turn, helped fuel a lot of the reporting that helped to expose the issues that ultimately led to Mo Johnston being fired. There were other factors, of course (the losing especially), but having the media digging contributed. A lot of what they knew came from access.

On the other side of the issue look at Europe. There they have next to no access. Almost everyone agrees that the type of coverage that comes from that is crap -- speculation and rumours. Many use that as an example of why we shouldn't trust media here. I'd suggest it's a better example of what happens when access is denied and a demand for coverage remains. In short, be careful what you wish for.

The thing about this debate is that a fan that is convinced that the "whiney" journalist is just being a pest and that the club needs to be protected from their prying eyes is never going to get it. They think the club is right, period. So, it's a bit pointless arguing.

However, they don't really have a deep understanding of the issue.

The club doesn't have to give reporters access (or, in this case, the league). They are a private company. It's short-sighted not to though.

I'll let you in on something: I hate going into the room. It does seem odd. However, I understand why it *is* beneficial. Or can be, anyway. Sometimes it's just cliché and that's what people tend to focus on.


RE the naked issue - it's a really old and mostly settled debate in pro sports. Females go in. It's understood that it's a requirement of their jobs and it’s expected that they are treated with respect.

No one really covers women’s sport (not making a value judgement, just stating a truism) so the reverse issue doesn't come into play very often.

[los sonadores]

SweetOwnGoal: That was a fine and very entertaining post. The RPB forum has some of the best, most insightful rants/football observations one can find (Ok, I'm neglecting all the other dross, mine included, but still.....). And good article too, even at 2am.

Good points about access, but couldn't a compromise be made? I could be wrong but it sounds like you were able to get more specific quotes and 'direct' your inquiry towards issues that interested you because you were talking directly with a single individual over the phone. ie. Later, when a better conversation could be had? It seems that's difficult to do in the locker room scrum. It levels the inquiry, and the players minds must still be elsewhere and in some cases wish the journos were as well.

[sulfur]

Interesting aside to this story...

At the Masters this weekend, the only female reporter on duty there was denied access to the locker room.

[greatwhitenorf]

The ironic part in all of this debate is that the mainstream media are now in direct competition for the commercial dollar with the very teams they strive to cover.

Long ago, teams identified that money was flowing toward sports coverage, be it print or broadcast, and the median demographic was the ticket buying public. Hence, the very teams media outlets strive to cover are now, via in-house and leage media systems, actively competing to draw away advertising dollars and readership numbers from the very media that are allowed in to cover them.

They aren't interested in giving mainstream media equal access when they can take exclusive access to their own players and feed that onto their own in-house media outlets to attract viewers to exclusive content and advertisers to that viewership.

So it's nice to see noble beasts like John Molinaro - and you are among the noblest now that CBC is no longer a rights holder - strive to maintain traditional media access priviliges. But dollars uber alles, babe.

I just go to the games and only give this club the money for the tickets. Nought else. I dont' get drunk on MLSE beer, I don't fatten up on their overpriced food, nor do I sing and flail madly about. I just enjoy the game they present me, watch closely and make my own mind up.

I will NEVER pay for Gol TV and it's lame production values, but neither will I fret about diminishing media access. They were proper fucked years ago.