PG: Chivas at TFC... What could have Been?

[Batman]

discuss

[ArmenJBX]

Maicon was selfish with that horrendous miss, but these things happen and we took a point.

Could have been worse.

[fdasilva]

Maicon gets the captain's armband, and THAT happened.

Go figure.

[Batman]

could have been 4-1

[MarkoftheDrink]

I think the backline owes us at least one forward pass that gets completed..

Yeah but I'm not really expecting them to do that at this point.

[Serb_Star]

JDG hasn't missed a beat :D

[Gazza]

I guess Maicon is the go-to guy for all of our frustrations. Only took a game.

[LucaGol]

Why was Dero not traded before the season started?

If you know you're going to trade him ... sit him until something can be worked out.

The team is clearly out of sorts now.

I don't understand this clown show ... I honestly don't.

[ag futbol]

that one miss was horrendous, but this team played like absolute piss and this Chivas team is going to finish 2nd last in the league ... right in front of us

[canadian_bhoy]

Jason Devos made the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard a colour commentator make "Santos was technically offside, but the goal should have counted". WTF???
This guy is a doughnut.

Martina is a class above anyone else on our team. He gives better service to our players than our midfield does. The longer we can keep him, the better.

Frei was class - made a couple of great saves that kept us in it.

Overall, not terrible. We get a couple pieces and we'll be in good shape.

[swan]

frustrating..

not that good of a game..

[MarkoftheDrink]

Considering what a shambles our lineup is in and how bad we looked in the first 15 mins. I'll take a point, but fuck Santos better hear it from Winter.

[Laurignano]

Stevanovic should have had his first goal for TFC but Santos was too selfish and wanted all the glory himself.

[Keegan]

Who needs DeRo when you have Santos? LOL

[Vince Whirlwind]

The last 20 or so minutes of the first half we looked good...never recovered from that Santos debacle.

[bigtfcfan]

I was impressed with the new signings, I think we got a good deal for dero, considering it was only their first game playing. Also, I hope stevanovic is not injured, he can be a good player for us.

Jdg looked good too.

[Nicholas982]

As someone else already mentioned in the GT, we're 1-1-1 after having played the 3 worst teams in the league.

We better make those 3 straight at home after SJ count or we're screwed.

[MarkoftheDrink]

Why was Dero not traded before the season started?

If you know you're going to trade him ... sit him until something can be worked out.

The team is clearly out of sorts now.

I don't understand this clown show ... I honestly don't.

I think they wanted to keep him and figured he'd play for the contract he signed. I mean I'm sure Winter didn't know the totality of the shit show he was walking into. Obviously if they knew it wasn't going to work out they would have moved him, but he's a home town boy and the best player on the team so you hold out hope it'll work out.

[SmokedPanda]

i was screaming for Santos to pass the ball over to Stevanovic and almost flipped my tv over.... very selfish of Santos period

[forza_tfc]

Thought it was a good result considering (at least?) 4 guys who played today weren't on the squad a week and a half ago.

Was Zavarise on the bench?

[Keystone FC]

Why was Dero not traded before the season started?

If you know you're going to trade him ... sit him until something can be worked out.

The team is clearly out of sorts now.

I don't understand this clown show ... I honestly don't.
Especially the day before a match. Send DeRo to NY after the match so the new guys can have some practice time with their new club before the next game.

[MarkoftheDrink]

Not sure why people are surprised we suck this year. NEWSFLASH: TFC is NOT going to win the cup this year. Winter has been with the club for what 2-3 months?! It takes time to undue 4 years of Mo-management. In that 2-3 months I've seen more team building from Winter than I EVER saw from Mo. This team started from NOTHING. Mo tried to build a house on a foundation of sand. Winter is building that foundation. Wake up and stop crying about it.

[LesH]

Maicon was selfish with that horrendous miss, but these things happen and we took a point.

Could have been worse.

Of course it can be worse...
We could have finished the season with 0 points from 36 games, and now we are guaranteed to have at least 4 points!
I'm in the 7th heaven! (nooooooo....)

PS: I do not agree that "Maicon was selfish with that horrendous miss".
Maicon was so horribly selfish, that he outclassed even Mero in that chapter forever.

[LesH]

that one miss was horrendous, but this team played like absolute piss and this Chivas team is going to finish 2nd last in the league ... right in front of us

THIS

[Serb_Star]

LukeWileman

Winter says De Rosario asked to be traded

Good riddance.

[Dkolish3]

Did anyone notice that is has been two games in a row now where Stevanovic has screamed at a toronto fc player for not passing the ball so that he could score an easy goal.

[Batman]

It's amazing how convoluted all the DeRo stories are.

Personally I'd like the board to be DeRo free going forward. We've had 6 months of contoversy. It's time for everyone to move on.

[zeelaw]

That huge miss..

PASS TO STEVANOVIC PASS TO STEFANOVIC NOOOO!!!!

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

What a boring match. I feel I had a 90 minute nap standing up and feel like shit for doing it.

[Batman]

feels like we lost 2 pts more than winning 1

[lobo]

bitter bitter disappointment in santos ... but team effort, right? giving up that goal in 3rd minute was ridiculous

lucky it wasn't a loss considering chivas was constantly pressuring us, in our house, in the final 20 minutes

*sigh*

[TFCRegina]

TFC really could have used someone with a finishing touch out there today. Someone who has a knack of putting the ball in the back of the net...someone who has done it 15 times before (at least) last season.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

-last 25 mins of the first half was great
-Tchani, Williams looked really promising
-Fiestiness of Joao Plata (although he didnt see much work)

[Davenport]

Not too many highs for me......we were outplayed by a poor side.
Frei was the busier of the 2 keepers by a long way.

[Davenport]

The back 4 is horrible.

[Stryker]

I haven't seen that much frustration from a european since the likes of Laurent Robert. Stevanovic must be wondering what he did to deserve this fate.

[swan]

I haven't seen that much frustration from a european since the likes of Laurent Robert. Stevanovic must be wondering what he did to deserve this fate.

lol..

sometimes it seems that the players don't wanna pass to him and i'm not talking just about the santos miss..

[Fushida]

TFC really could have used someone with a finishing touch out there today. Someone who has a knack of putting the ball in the back of the net...someone who has done it 15 times before (at least) last season.

i think i know who you're talking about........ but i can't quite put my finger on it.....

[Stryker]

Martina... a euro cast off who was without a team recently is the only bright spot. How pathetic is that.

[swan]

i saw a handful thats about it..

[zeelaw]

We had some real chances, if Santos scored that it'd be a better mood.

[Mikey]

it didn't rain....

[drexel10]

Alan Gordon. He played very well. Tchani and Borman looked good. And unbelievably Peterson played better than JDG.

[Dkolish3]

While this is a set back, considering only 1 point gained
at home from a decidedly soft opponent, I hope that people
keep positive. Let's look at it objectively of the 14 players that took
the field 3 players (Tchani, Borman, Williams) were not part of the team a week ago, another 2 players (Plata, Stevanovic)were not part of the team 2 weeks ago, and our midfield anchor (De Guzman) is coming off a serious knee injury.
All i'm saying is that we give our team a little time to get comfortable with each
other and their game.

[ryan]

lol..

sometimes it seems that the players don't wanna pass to him and i'm not talking just about the santos miss..

Absolutely!

So many times he starts to break down the wing...and stops. Cause the guy with the ball does something else instead of getting the ball to him while he's breaking open.

Santos made some poor decisions with the ball today. Curse of the TFC Armband or what? Don't let it get to your head eh?


On a more positive note, Gordon and Martina had pretty quality games. Also thought Tchani did well winning some balls in the mid.

[DangerRed]

My throat is raw from all the screaming I did at BMO today, but as someone said, it could've been 4-1 (hit the post, disallowed goal, Maicon howler).

It also could've been 3-1 Chivas, as their #17 forward missed two unmarked headers that could've easily been goals.

What struck me most today is how the crowd has lost its patience. Booing began very quickly, by the 15th minute people were screaming and booing like I've never seen before.

Coaching tip for next week for Winter: you kept Gargan on the bench, as you should have. Try it with Ty Harden next. He has no business starting. AT ALL.

[ryan]

Coaching tip for next week for Winter: you kept Gargan on the bench, as you should have. Try it with Ty Harden next. He has no business starting. AT ALL.

Harden made a couple decent plays today, more than usual. He still had he typical blunders with basic possession though. Wasn't his worst game, but I'm with you on benching him until his contract expires.

Simply a matter of time until all the new players that are here get comfy and we won't need to use him anymore....right?

[Kooper]

Did anyone notice that is has been two games in a row now where Stevanovic has screamed at a toronto fc player for not passing the ball so that he could score an easy goal.

Stevanovic was frustrating for me today. Sitting in the south end we saw him hold the ball too long and cut inside to try and take on 3 guys instead of pass it to the overlapping players on the outside.

I will agree that he deserved the ball when Micon shot it but Micon's touch around the keeper played him wide of the net. He couldn't have passed it because it looked like the defenders would have cut it out.

If Micon had scored we would all be saying what a nice move and finish it was.

[lobo]

Martina - sublime ball control, great crosses, smooth 1v1 play, all around good game, huge presence.

Gordon - lovely header goal, big intensity, beautiful ball into space leading to Santos fuck up, strong play, seemed to take a leadership role.

Frei - great distribution, usual steady play in goal.

Stevanovic - good ball control, good positioning and use of open space (despite lack of support he was given), silky crosses and corners.

De Guz -- good first touches, happy to see him on the field, cautiously hopeful for strong season ahead.

Tchaini - very promising play, very promising.

Peterson - wonderful pace and placement on free kick assist on our only goal, relatively strong game.

Beer - cold and in good supply.

[swan]

My throat is raw from all the screaming I did at BMO today, but as someone said, it could've been 4-1 (hit the post, disallowed goal, Maicon howler).

It also could've been 3-1 Chivas, as their #17 forward missed two unmarked headers that could've easily been goals.

What struck me most today is how the crowd has lost its patience. Booing began very quickly, by the 15th minute people were screaming and booing like I've never seen before.

Coaching tip for next week for Winter: you kept Gargan on the bench, as you should have. Try it with Ty Harden next. He has no business starting. AT ALL.


with yourass back this could well happen

[MKR]

Gordon looked good. Borman looked bloody awful. Not very reliable at all if you ask me. I personally can't wait to see Yourasowski back in the lineup. Hopefully Harden's time is up as well because he is shit.

The one high about today's game i would say was that we should have won despite not being very good. The one goal at the end of the first should have stood and the other miss by Santos does not happen if given a re-do.

Actually chalk that miss up as a high for me too for comedic performance of the game. I laughed my ass off after that play. I found it as funny as Stefanovic found it infuriating.

[dupont]

I was so disappointed when Chivas scored. I hate when TFC just gives the opposition a goal. If they earn the goal then fine but to just hand one to them is so maddening.

[Fushida]

stevanovic didn't exactly look good. he lost the ball far more often than not because he felt like he could beat 3 guys, and didn't provide any forward thrust on most occasions. martina on the other hand, performed like a much more effective winger.

[Beach_Red]

I was so disappointed when Chivas scored. I hate when TFC just gives the opposition a goal. If they earn the goal then fine but to just hand one to them is so maddening.


Hey, at least they didn't give one away in the last five minutes.

Today was the only game we'll ever see this lineup and they managed a point. The team will only get better from here on.

[lobo]

I will agree that he deserved the ball when Micon shot it but Micon's touch around the keeper played him wide of the net. He couldn't have passed it because it looked like the defenders would have cut it out.

it may have looked that way from south stands, but it was an easy square pass to stev, no problem, no brainer

[dupont]

Martina looks really great to me.
I thought we played really well near the end of the first half.. I wished there was more time then because they came out weaker in the second half.

[69Chevy396]

stevanovic didn't exactly look good. he lost the ball far more often than not because he felt like he could beat 3 guys, and didn't provide any forward thrust on most occasions. martina on the other hand, performed like a much more effective winger.
Give Stan time, he may be the most talented player on the team, way too early to measure his worth, everybody played sloppy today. Cann gave the ball away virtually every time he touched the ball, but nobody seems to have noticed this on these boards....still early, the team needs time to gel, and it will

[SoccMan]

It's time for MLSE to open up the checkbook and bring in a DP with a name and can still play soccer. The attendance will keep falling, only 18,900 there today and I'm sure we will see even lower crowds than this as the season goes on. We use to laugh at teams like Columbus with their empty stadiums and pump our chest at how great our crowds were,however, little by little this is changing and it won't be long until crowds of 10 to 15000 will be the norm at TFC games.

[Kooper]

it may have looked that way from south stands, but it was an easy square pass to stev, no problem, no brainer

True I was about as far away from the play as it gets.

How about this one.

He started a nice run, seeing the potential glory he went for it, had his head down and moved to round the keeper. It was only after he scuffed it off the post did he see Stevanovic. We can't all have the vision of Paul Scholes.

[TFC07]

- We need a true RB. Harden is just awful!
- Our defenders aren't capable of playing with the ball.
- Santos was very selfish today.
- The new players look alright.
- Martina and Gordon both played great.
- Stevanovic looks like he going to lose it someday on the pitch.

Overall, we should have won that game. TFC gotta pick up a point now in San Jose (which is doable given TFC history playing there) if they want to make it to playoffs.

On a side note, TFC are now youngest team in MLS after DeRo trade. We should call them "young reds" now! lol

[swan]

True I was about as far away from the play as it gets.

How about this one.

He started a nice run, seeing the potential glory he went for it, had his head down and moved to round the keeper. It was only after he scuffed it off the post did he see Stevanovic. We can't all have the vision of Paul Scholes.

nah there is no way he didn't know he was there.. just greedy..

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Yes dunno how i forgot martina.
Folks theres plenty of other threads to bitch in, this aint one of em, hence the title 'Highs of today's game'

[ryan]

It's time for MLSE to open up the checkbook and bring in a DP with a name and can still play soccer. The attendance will keep falling, only 18,900 there today and I'm sure we will see even lower crowds than this as the season goes on. We use to laugh at teams like Columbus with their empty stadiums and pump our chest at how great our crowds were,however, little by little this is changing and it won't be long until crowds of 10 to 15000 will be the norm at TFC games.

I disagree entirely.

There's a right and wrong time to bring in a "DP Striker" like so many people clamor for. Now is not the right time. Half this roster doesn't even know each others names at this point, bringing in more players is not going to help anything.

We had 1,000 less than the season opener, seems a bit consistent so far but it's only 2 games. Also we played bloody Chivas...they are not a draw what so ever.

We have one win and one draw at home, why would half the audience stop coming at this point?

10 Teams make the playoffs, I'm not sure how far we'll come along as a club between now and October but I'd not be surprised to see us in the running until the very end.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Borman looked bloody awful.

yeah i kinda saw that too but wasnt sure whether it was just me, kinda felt like he impacted Stevanovic, hopefully its a one off as we need him to come through.

Looking forward to seeing Williams as a fullback

[rocker]

I found the team really didn't involve Stevanovic much. We were screaming for somebody, anybody, to switch the ball over to him -- he was wide open on the wing probably 5-6 times in the first half... but instead guys like Harden would keep playing balls up the west side of the field into traffic. Borman obviously had zero chemistry with Stevanovic and Stevanovic had to keep holding up his runs. Hopefully with time they can work on that.

First 10 minutes saw some of the poorest play I've ever seen from TFC, but they got into a rhythm and Gordon brought them back. I really like Alan Gordon.

I just got home so I haven't seen the highlights, but they showed the replay of the offside on the scoreboard, surprisingly, and Maicon looked onside (and MLS reminded refs about this type of thing in the spring). But I'd like to see a better replay.

I liked Tchani (after his initial nerves). Big, strong guy with glue on his feet when in traffic.

[gtaguy]

first 20 minutes of this game was a disaster. the team looked like they were all sleep walking. The last 20 minutes the team looked like they went into a defensive stance and were just happy to get the point and move on.

[Kooper]

It's time for MLSE to open up the checkbook and bring in a DP with a name and can still play soccer. The attendance will keep falling, only 18,900 there today and I'm sure we will see even lower crowds than this as the season goes on. We use to laugh at teams like Columbus with their empty stadiums and pump our chest at how great our crowds were,however, little by little this is changing and it won't be long until crowds of 10 to 15000 will be the norm at TFC games.

DP or not TFC needs to win. The last 2 games have been early in the day and pretty cold. If TFC is playing .500 soccer playing an attractive styel the nice summer games will be mostly full.

To win we need to improve on a number of positions that have already been discussed. This thread is about positives and I see a lot. True we have only played poor teams.

Martina and Stevanovic - After 4 years of poor wingers we finally have wingers that can run, pass, beat a man, cross and score. So far Martina seems to be the more mature player but Stevanovic has more potential.

Frei - His usual strong game. Good saves, good distribution and controled a rough back line as well as he could.

Tcani - seems to have lots of potential. Looks fast, strong and a decent passer.

Williams - He is a Beast. Had OK speed and a monster in the air.

Looking forward to next week:
Yourassowsky - With him and Stevanovic we will have a left wing that is fast and really good going forward. If they can work well together they will pin the opposition's right mindfielders and full backs in their own end. Good thing against LA and Becks.

Gordon - Poor first touch with his feet but good in the air. If he can knock the ball down to Martina, Micon and Stevanovic we will have a new Danny D.

[LesH]

True I was about as far away from the play as it gets.

How about this one.

He started a nice run, seeing the potential glory he went for it, had his head down and moved to round the keeper. It was only after he scuffed it off the post did he see Stevanovic. We can't all have the vision of Paul Scholes.

True: you were VERY far from the play... :rolleyes:

[rocker]

I sit right in front of that spot where Maicon and Stevanovic were. Maicon would have seen the guy. Also, Stevanovic could have received an even earlier pass from Maicon -- he was ready and calling for it -- and he would have scored easily.

[Huyton]

I love watching Martina play. His vision, his work rate, his close control, his reading of the play.

I hope he's here for a long time.

[rocker]

wing play is perhaps the best it's been since Ronnie O'Brien was around. Thanks Martina.

[DangerRed]

stevanovic didn't exactly look good. he lost the ball far more often than not because he felt like he could beat 3 guys, and didn't provide any forward thrust on most occasions. martina on the other hand, performed like a much more effective winger.

I don't know where you were watching from, but Stevanovic spent the first 25 minutes standing wide open on the wing with no one passing the ball to him, waving constantly, and the crowd screaming at every other TFC player to pass him the ball.

The moment he got the ball, there was danger, creativity and clever play. There also should've been a goal, but Maicon made a mistake (too bad, really, but shit happens).

Stevanovic skill and speed-wise is among the best on our team. He also almost beat the keeper to a badly bounced ball that could've been a TFC goal.

If you think he's not providing forward thrust, you're not looking close enough.

[alex andrew]

we played 5 defensemen and 4 forwards, we didn't have any midfield players.

the team was broken, four guys yawning in front, 5 hoofing it in desperation and a random one losing the ball in midfield.

liked gordon, tchani and williams.

cann and especially nana gave me the shivers, it was written penalty kick all over them.

[jloome]

Harden made a couple decent plays today, more than usual. He still had he typical blunders with basic possession though. Wasn't his worst game, but I'm with you on benching him until his contract expires.

Simply a matter of time until all the new players that are here get comfy and we won't need to use him anymore....right?

Harden was a rock in the first half, and a disaster in the second.

Lots of upsides today though, given the stage of this latest experiment; Tchani is totally the real deal, Martina looks consistently dangerous, Gordon played really well.

Defense needs work still. Dicoy Williams made some poor decisions but was physically imposing.

[Eastend]

I can see where this team is going and I am optimistic. A few bone head plays today but the structure is getting there and I will gove them time. 2 players joined last night. 1 the night before, a couple others a few weeks ago. But they're promising pieces.

It's a long season and it will get better for us.

Dom.

[jloome]

Gordon - Poor first touch with his feet but good in the air. If he can knock the ball down to Martina, Micon and Stevanovic we will have a new Danny D.

For his size, Gordon actually has a very good first touch. No one's going to mistake him for Martina or Plata but he's got a good touch for a target forward.

[tfcleeds]

Game at home vs. Chivas, who are one of the few teams in the next stretch we actually have a chance of beating - nothing less than 3 points was acceptable.

However, I was encouraged by the way the team played in the latter portion of the first half.

[TFC USA]

I missed the game so tell me what the fuck happened and should I resign myself to a last place finish?

[rocker]

I don't know where you were watching from, but Stevanovic spent the first 25 minutes standing wide open on the wing with no one passing the ball to him, waving constantly, and the crowd screaming at every other TFC player to pass him the ball..

that reminded me of when De Ro wouldn't pass to Vitti. Amado also had his favourites at times, leaving others wide open.

[LucaGol]

Can someone please explain to me the philosophy of how Winter is instructing the team to build the play from the back?

1. On numerous occasions this year its almost ended up in an own goal
2. It's becoming extremely predictable
3. Our back four can't pass the ball
4. There is no midfielder to speak of coming back to link play (like hello?)
5. As a result of no forward link play the CBs oftentimes force some ridiculous risky pass back to Frei and then Frei forces an equally dubious pass
6. After three or four meaningless passes either one of two things happens:
a) the ball ends up getting booted up field to absolutely no one
b) the ball is inevitably given away

So... again, can someone please explain to me this madness?
Because I've never seen such an inane and hopelessly pathetic attempt at playing possession football.

[123 elite]

Can someone please explain to me the philosophy of how Winter is instructing the team to build the play from the back?

1. On numerous occasions this year its almost ended up in an own goal
2. It's becoming extremely predictable
3. Our back four can't pass the ball
4. There is no midfielder to speak of coming back to link play (like hello?)
5. As a result of no forward link play the CBs oftentimes force some ridiculous risky pass back to Frei and then Frei forces an equally dubious pass
6. After three or four meaningless passes either one of two things happens:
a) the ball ends up getting booted up field to absolutely no one
b) the ball is inevitably given away

So... again, can someone please explain to me this madness?
Because I've never seen such an inane and hopelessly pathetic attempt at playing possession football.

Exactly. Quite why Dero can't fit into this 'system' is also beyond me. That was a shit fest today with only Martina and Frei getting pass marks.

[ensco]

Peterson deserves his own thread. The guy hustles, can tackle, had the great ball to Gordon, and has really played his way into the mix.

[zorsofstesab]

Can someone tell me why labrocca was being booed. I did not see him do anything to piss off the fans. Or were people waiting for him to salute the fans, which would be ludicrous.

[TFC USA]

Just caught the highlights. Cann looked like shit.

I guarantee you guys will be staging a protest again come fall time.

[Blazer]

discuss

Not much to discuss. They came, they saw, they conquered and we still stink.

[Blazer]

Can someone tell me why labrocca was being booed. I did not see him do anything to piss off the fans. Or were people waiting for him to salute the fans, which would be ludicrous.

Monkey see monkey do. We're famous for it. It only takes one to start the masses.

[Walms]

Not sure why people are surprised we suck this year. NEWSFLASH: TFC is NOT going to win the cup this year. Winter has been with the club for what 2-3 months?! It takes time to undue 4 years of Mo-management. In that 2-3 months I've seen more team building from Winter than I EVER saw from Mo. This team started from NOTHING. Mo tried to build a house on a foundation of sand. Winter is building that foundation. Wake up and stop crying about it.

Bam their it is!

[billyfly]

One of those games you look back on and rue the missed points.

Santos non-goal (both of them) was ridiculous.

[lobo]

True I was about as far away from the play as it gets.

How about this one.

He started a nice run, seeing the potential glory he went for it, had his head down and moved to round the keeper. It was only after he scuffed it off the post did he see Stevanovic. We can't all have the vision of Paul Scholes.

i dunno koop, you could see stev calling for the ball, he was square with santos and unmarked, even after santos touched the ball around the keeper he put it so far out of his own reach that stev had the better chance on the ball, santos could have backed off and let stev have the shot, and stev was still calling out, it looked like santos and stev almost bumped into each other but santos still kept going for it even though his chance was not as strong as stev's, and in the end the defender was able to get a leg in, which may or may not have affected santos shot, but all in all it was horrible decision making ... it would have been an easy tap in finish for stev ... i'd like to give santos the benefit of the doubt on this one, but watching it again i just can't .. it was so ugly the way it played out, poor team work from our new captain, bad form, hugely disappointing

[jimiv]

DP or not TFC needs to win. The last 2 games have been early in the day and pretty cold. If TFC is playing .500 soccer playing an attractive stye the nice summer games will be mostly full.


Too bad they're on the road for most of the summer.

:scarf:

[ManUtd4ever]

I left the match frustrated at the lost 2 points. TFC was predictably out of sorts to start the match, and then played some decent attacking football that should have resulted in 3-4 goals.

Overall, I had a good impression of newcomers Tchani, Borman and Williams. Attakora and Santos were uncharacteristically terrible on the ball today. Martina, Gordon, and Peterson had standout performances.

I saw a few glimmers of hope out on the pitch today that will hopefully result in a cohesive unit once all the new players adjust to one another.

[jazzy]

Stevanovic was frustrating for me today. Sitting in the south end we saw him hold the ball too long and cut inside to try and take on 3 guys instead of pass it to the overlapping players on the outside.

I will agree that he deserved the ball when Micon shot it but Micon's touch around the keeper played him wide of the net. He couldn't have passed it because it looked like the defenders would have cut it out.

If Micon had scored we would all be saying what a nice move and finish it was.

Nope...love Maicon but now that I've seen it on TV , Maicon had 2 chances after passing the goaly, to pass , even on the final hard touch if he would have left it....Stevanovic had a free pass.......big selfish move......

[LucaGol]

Nope...love Maicon but now that I've seen it on TV , Maicon had 2 chances after passing the goaly, to pass , even on the final hard touch if he would have left it....Stevanovic had a free pass.......big selfish move......

Hey if Maicon becomes selfish and scores double digit goals this year ... who knows ... maybe he'll ask for DP money.

[Canadian Blue]

JDG garbage and it is a disgrace that we pay him what we do. But to be fair to the club, many fans were screaming for him to be signed......I for one was not and I am doing my best to hold in the "I told ya so"

Harden is absolute junk and too many backward passes from the midfield. Stevanovic or whateve his name is needs to realize he isn't a superstar yet and that he needs to run for passes that are a little heavy..

[denime]

TFC really could have used someone with a finishing touch out there today. Someone who has a knack of putting the ball in the back of the net...someone who has done it 15 times before (at least) last season.

AGREE 100%

We do need a unselfish leader and scorer like Dichio in our team! :D

[ExiledRed]

Santos should have passed, but given that Stevanovic has done nothing but bitch at the other players and act like a twat, I wasnt surprised to see it happen.

It was an epic miss, but Barrett had a hundred of those and there are still lots of fans jumping on his dick. Santos is a solid MLS striker, and missed sitters like that arent his MO, like Barrett or Cunny. He reaches out to the fans every game and he really doesnt deserve to become the next Garcia IMO.

[BayernTFC]

- We need a true RB. Harden is just awful!
He didn't have his worst game for TFC this afternoon, but that's not saying much. More poor touches from him and he's the only one who was unable to mark his man when TFC was defending the 75' Chivas set piece.


- Our defenders aren't capable of playing with the ball.
I think that's why they've abandoned the build up from the back in the last two games. Attakora had a tough game. He got the ball trapped in his feet multiple times. On the first goal, he couldn't get a handle on the ball or Flores, and then Cann got caught on the wrong side of Moreno and couldn't handle him either. It was a rough first twenty minutes or so for TFC. Surprisingly, the new player who just arrived, Borman, looked the most comfortable of all of them on the ball today.


- Santos was very selfish today.
It's a fine line. You want a striker to be a little bit selfish and always hungry to take the shot. In the first half he took a decent stab at the net from the top of the box instead of passing it along to Stevanovic in the left corner. I thought he should have passed to Stevanovic in the second half even before I saw him get around the keeper and then ultimately miss. After getting around the keeper, it looked to me like Stevanovic had the better opportunity. Sometimes it's easy to say when you're not the one taking the shot. It certainly would be easier to defend Maicon if the one he scored in the first half didn't get called offside or if he actually buries the second half miss.



- The new players look alright.
I was impressed with Tchani and Williams. Both marked well in 3 defensive set piece situations towards the end of the game. Tchani had a heading clearance on one of them go for another corner, but it was a safe choice and it was securely and confidently cleared. Tchani struggled with passing throughout the game, but I think that's to be expected from someone who just arrived with the team today. I could clearly see what he wanted to do on many occasions. Tchani shielded the ball very well and he was able to win the ball away from Chivas too. There were a few clumsy challenges from him in the beginning, but Tchani seemed to settle in and his big frame looked hard to move off the ball. He showed good positioning. I noticed some switching taking place with Dicoy Williams in the backfield after he came on. He was sticking to the new zone so as not to create confusion and open space up for Chivas until there was a more appropriate time to switch back. Borman looked shaky to me in the beginning, which was to be expected again since he was the other player who just showed up today. He looked to become more settled as the game wore on and he didn't make any mistakes that cost us. From what I've seen so far, Borman looks capable of filling in if needed.


- Martina and Gordon both played great.
Martina has a great touch with his passes/crosses. The cross where he picked out Gordon, who's header hit the post, was special. Martina does such a good job of giving himself that little bit of extra space. He's confident with the ball and his fakes, movements, stops and backheels make him look like more than a handful for opposing defenders. I've been pleasantly surprised by Gordon since he arrived. He was good in the air. Peterson supplied him with a wonderful cross on the free kick that led to Gordon's goal.



- Stevanovic looks like he going to lose it someday on the pitch.It'll be nice to see him get the ball a little bit more.

[werewolf]

Can someone tell me why labrocca was being booed. I did not see him do anything to piss off the fans. Or were people waiting for him to salute the fans, which would be ludicrous.

Also mystified. I hold nothing against him, other then he is an opponent, but its not reason to be extra harsh on him.

But if you consider the average blood alcohol level in the vicinity of that corner, people aren't always thinking straight.

[denime]

It's time for MLSE to open up the checkbook and bring in a DP with a name and can still play soccer. The attendance will keep falling, only 18,900 there today and I'm sure we will see even lower crowds than this as the season goes on. We use to laugh at teams like Columbus with their empty stadiums and pump our chest at how great our crowds were,however, little by little this is changing and it won't be long until crowds of 10 to 15000 will be the norm at TFC games.

Who cares about Shitlumbus attendance,we are competing here for a cup not attendance.

It's April FFS there are no DP players available right now all players are under the contract and guess what? players around the world play until there contract expires not like ......

Don't expect any DP signings before July if they decide to sign one.

[jazzy]

Can someone tell me why labrocca was being booed. I did not see him do anything to piss off the fans. Or were people waiting for him to salute the fans, which would be ludicrous.

Agreed,..... he is a relatively quiet guy and gave an interview after leaving how much he enjoyed TO and then we shit on him. I guess we want a rep as hard asses.......ya, right.......dream on.......geez

[LucaGol]

Who cares about Shitlumbus attendance,we are competing here for a cup not attendance.

It's April FFS there are no DP players available right now all players are under the contract and guess what? players around the world play until there contract expires not like ......

Don't expect any DP signings before July if they decide to sign one.

When will TFC finally embrace latin america.

Send Winter down there during international break ... throw some cash at some talented players who fit the "system" ... whatever the hell that means. Problem solved.

Am I oversimplifying ... yes ... but c'mon DP's don't always have to come from teams we watch on Saturday across the pond.

[denime]

When will TFC finally embrace latin america.

Send Winter down there during international break ... throw some cash at some talented players who fit the "system" ... whatever the hell that means. Problem solved.

Am I oversimplifying ... yes ... but c'mon DP's don't always have to come from teams we watch on Saturday across the pond.

I think Mariner is one who is responsible for players scouting and yes I agree we should have someone in S.America looking for good offensive player.

System is very simple,all players are "role" players.They all know what is their responsibility and If player can't or doesn't want to play certain role,system and team suffers,player is shipped to reserve team or traded.

[Darlofletch]

we played like what we are, a team still trying to get to know each other. I hate that we're using regular season as pre season again, but given that that's the situation, it wasn't that bad.
first 20 minutes or so were thoroughly awful, but after that there were definite signs of promise here and there.

tchani looked great, borman not so much, i've no idea how he got motm.
defence looked pretty rough, i'd definitely bring yourassowsky back, and harden isn't the answer at right back.

gordon looked good, unstoppable in the air, but that may just be because of bad chivas defending.

should be very interesting to see how it goes against a good team next week. I'm guessing not that good.

[Sweeper]

Love Tchani. Good trade

[swiss76]

too many missed chances...maicon pass the ball man. Is it me or can't we move the ball from our own end trough our midfield....seemed impossible today....2pts given away for sure!

[TFCRegina]

At the end of the day, I take solace in the fact that 5 goals were scored by Canadians in the English Championship today, because there wasn't a lot to make me happy (aside from some great wing play by Martina) with TFC.

[ag futbol]

Yeah, I agree Santos held onto the ball too long, but seriously what does someone like Winter expect when you take someone who is naturally a target man and drop him back to play AM? He's way outside of his comfort zone and struggling to make the right decisions.

Tchani was a bit rusty with the passes but his ability to win the ball in the middle was clear.

Other than that the backline was absolute balls. I think Morgan would have been a better choice at LB because of his ability to get forward. Really poor passing and decision making back there. No total football until this gets sorted out.

[Beach_Red]

we played like what we are, a team still trying to get to know each other. I hate that we're using regular season as pre season again, but given that that's the situation, it wasn't that bad.


Yeah, that's it exactly. Not ideal, but that's the way it is.

[Serb_Star]

Why did JDG come on at HT? we were doing fine without him there was no need for that quick sub.

[Blixa]

How the fuck did Santos not score on that?

[LucaGol]

How the fuck did Santos not score on that?

Cause Andy Boyens ... likely another disgruntled discarded former TFC member with an axe to grind ... ran as fast as he ever has ... and pressured Santos enough to push him off his angle without conceding a penalty.

That and the touch Santos put around Kennedy was heavy. His body weight was all wrong.

That being said ... he prob should still have scored.

[SCF1908]

Not sure why people are surprised we suck this year. NEWSFLASH: TFC is NOT going to win the cup this year. Winter has been with the club for what 2-3 months?! It takes time to undue 4 years of Mo-management. In that 2-3 months I've seen more team building from Winter than I EVER saw from Mo. This team started from NOTHING. Mo tried to build a house on a foundation of sand. Winter is building that foundation. Wake up and stop crying about it.



Bingo.

1-1-1 from the first three games isn't bad given the limited amount of time Winter has had with the team. Aaron Winter actually knows something about football unlike some of the people previously involved with the club, it will take a bit of time.

But, one understands the frustrations of the fans after so long.

[Whoop]

I thought Gordon had a solid game.

[Lizzy]

JDG garbage and it is a disgrace that we pay him what we do. But to be fair to the club, many fans were screaming for him to be signed......I for one was not and I am doing my best to hold in the "I told ya so"

Harden is absolute junk and too many backward passes from the midfield. Stevanovic or whateve his name is needs to realize he isn't a superstar yet and that he needs to run for passes that are a little heavy..

Isn't JDG's contract up at the end of this year?

[TFCRegina]

Isn't JDG's contract up at the end of this year?

Yes.

[Mr. Bigby]

How the fuck did Santos not score on that?

It's easy after the fact to say that Santos should have passed. However on the replay it seems clear, (and it was confirmed by Santos) that Boyens got his foot into Santos' leg JUST as Santos was taking the kick! It's unfortunate, but a good desperation play by Boyens - and recognized as such by the Chivas goalie at the end of the play.

Overall I thought that Santos was all over the field and played with heart today. I think he'll make a good captain.

[DangerRed]

Just before people's crazy runs away on them, you do realize that JDG quite possibly saved us the game with that foul at the very end, right? It was a clear breakaway if not for him stopping the play. He happily took the yellow and we left with a draw.

The guy has a good brain (sometimes) and good feet (most of the time). I'll agree he's getting paid too much, but to run around and say he's garbage is going too far.

[canadian_bhoy]

JDG garbage and it is a disgrace that we pay him what we do. But to be fair to the club, many fans were screaming for him to be signed......I for one was not and I am doing my best to hold in the "I told ya so"

Harden is absolute junk and too many backward passes from the midfield. Stevanovic or whateve his name is needs to realize he isn't a superstar yet and that he needs to run for passes that are a little heavy..

I don't thinkg JDG is garbage. JDG is a good player - and a shitty DP. TFC should never have signed another other than a striker or attacking mid as a DP.

Funnily enough, the two players that Mo wanted to deliver "for the fans" - Dero and JDG both turned out to be busts (despite Deros goal tally, I would say his time in Toronto overall should be considered a disappointment IMO). I wonder how we would have done if Guevara and Robbo had stayed.

[scooterTFC]

What do people think of Winter after 3 games?

THE GOOD
I like what he's trying to do with system of play. And I'm impressed by how quickly he has changed the way we play when we have the ball. based on what I've seen on the field, my gut tells me that he and declerk must be effective on the training ground? The short periods of time where the team looks good in possession needed to become longer.

THE BAD
He seems to make some odd line-up and substitution decisions:
-Cann @ LB vs Van
-Mayukuba substitution at half vs Van
-stevanovitch substitution vs Portland (never trained with the team prior to the game)
-starting both tchani and boorman (never trained with the team prior to the game)
-starting harden at RB
Seems like his lineup decisions are a weakness. I know he's experimenting a little but feels his judgement in this area could be better. Maybe he improve as he learns about the league.

[ManUtd4ever]

Just before people's crazy runs away on them, you do realize that JDG quite possibly saved us the game with that foul at the very end, right? It was a clear breakaway if not for him stopping the play. He happily took the yellow and we left with a draw.

The guy has a good brain (sometimes) and good feet (most of the time). I'll agree he's getting paid too much, but to run around and say he's garbage is going too far.

Agreed. JDG may not be worth 1.7 million, but once he regains his fitness he will be a very solid player for TFC this season.

[Whoop]

I could be wrong but I thought Cann and Harden were in the middle with Borman and Attakora on the wings?

[Whoop]

Agreed. JDG may not be worth 1.7 million, but once he regains his fitness he will be very solid player for TFC this season.

For a guy coming off an injury he seems more energetic on the pitch today than I've seen him in the last year and a half.

[Whoop]

Not overly impressed with Stevanovic so far but I felt after he went down to injury and had to be subbed off was the point that TFC finished flat. As petulant as he seems on the pitch so far he is a threat to worry about and once he was gone that was it for the day.

I think the second half of the first half was some of the better football I've seen TFC play in a while. Nice linking, good wing play. Gordon's header doesn't hit the post and it could have been a different game.

[ManUtd4ever]

I could be wrong but I thought Cann and Harden were in the middle with Borman and Attakora on the wings?

Harden was at RB, and he was ineffective. Nana was absolutely terrible today, and must have been distracted by the DeRo fiasco. Cann was half decent.

Ironically, I was more impressed with Williams and Borman today than any of our regulars on the backline.

[billyfly]

HAHHHAH Bunbury scores for KC. 1-0 Sporting over WHitecaps at HT.

[Nodoubtguy]

Chivas also missed a few clear chances.......we could have scored more, but they could have too

1pt is better the a loss

[Whoop]

Harden was at RB, and he was ineffective. Nana was absolutely terrible today, and must have been distracted by the DeRo fiasco. Cann was half decent.

Ironically, I was more impressed with Williams and Borman today than any of our regulars on the backline.

Thanks. So was I.

I was also impressed with Tchani. He is impossible to knock off the ball like NYRB supporters said.

[Kc17]

Btw, why aren't the players & coaches sitting in the dugout so far this season?

[DOMIN8R]

I'm pleased with what I saw from JDG today. Overpaid - yes. But the work rate, up front pressure, tackles and channel closing looked promising. He seemed to be doing alot of communicating out there to help the team keep it's shape. But we really have to find another dead ball specialist. He's not going to cut it.

[bdiddy]

.

Two defenders were pretty good to O.k. They were the new kid Borman and Attakora (who I think got subbed becuase its his first game back from an injury) and Dicoy Williams made some confident solid plays.

Adrian Cann just doesn't fit with this squad with his passing ability, he missed 2-3 good passes and gave the ball away. On the flip side, he made a few great tackles and stopped some dangerous balls.

Martina is a gem. Works hard, runs at defenders causes issues for everyone, and makes great crosses.

I'm not sure why everyone is hating on Santos - those of us in the stands were watching him man-handle the other team, beating 2-3 players and making good solid passes. You all are looking at one play, where he missed a passing opportunity.
His head was down and who knows if Stefanovic was calling for it or not... He had the goalie beat, bad turf and boyens made a good play coming back. Selfish? Only if he didn't score, otherwise you'd all be loving him and saying he deserved the armband.

Gordon runs pretty damn great for a big man and can get to balls that I haven't seen someone on TFC especially a forward do in a long time. I really like the unselfish play that TFC showed today overall.

Petersen - great cross for the goal.

Tchani looked great, strong mid-field presence, strong tackler, made up for some mistakes, made some good passes, made some bad passes, but good for first day/first game with the team.

Diddy

[ensco]

^Domin8r, you're kidding, right? JDG won no balls, couldn't link up with the back line, and continues to play sideways or backwards balls only (unlike Tchani btw). I give it 10 games max before Winter sits JDG and/or starts the process to move him out.

Always a shock to see the otherwise sagacious Domin8r get one wrong! ;-)

[London]

the craziest thing from today is Labrocca thinks he is a #10

[sashavukelich]

TChani really impressed me, i was pleased to see his energy, strength and passing. Borman seemed okay, i'm sure he'll settle in better once these guys get training with the squad!

Super pleased to see JDG back, i hope he gets a chance to shine and finally get his goal.

[TorontoGooner]

Did anyone watch the same game as me? Gave the ball away far too frequently, midfield failed to track back, up front we only threatened on long balls and in all fairness we played like the away team.

I know it's going to take time but I can't tolerate basic twenty yard passes not making it to feet. A long season coming up.

[swan]

Btw, why aren't the players & coaches sitting in the dugout so far this season?

it's not a good view of the pitch because it goes in ground they wanna be on lvl with the pitch

[Auzzy]

Does anybody know how the heck the pitch got such strange worn-out spots at both ends (which they have attempted to patch)? It's not the normal wear-pattern you see on soccer fields; it's also different from what I remember last year when the pitch started looking rough in spots.

It's two spots on each side, just outside the 6-yard box I believe. Did they leave the goals sitting there all winter or something stupid? I thought overall the pitch looked like crap today, so many divots all over, and that turf coming up in bunches was just bush-league.

[billyfly]

Btw, why aren't the players & coaches sitting in the dugout so far this season?

I have noticed this too. Last week's game Portland stayed in the dugout but TFC stayed out. This week, both teams were in chairs at field level. Is the view that poor or is it the wind in the face?

[TFCwestcan]

It was bound to be a difficult game with all the fireworks of trade. I am a bit more positive I am liking some of the additions, Borman played better as the match progressed and he will push Yourassowsky for LB. JDG looked really rusty today, marginally game fit but I think there is potential for a great partnership with Tchani who also got stronger as the match progressed. Looks like Martina is no longer an unknown in this league, at least 2-3 times he was double teamed and still managed to find space for something creative.

I thought it weird that Labrocca looked somewhat imposing for Chivas, no doubt emotional charged after the trade, which played well for us as Gordon put an nice header in and the smack of the post really shows his strength. The weakness for this squad is still all the mix of the new faces not having had much time together, RB needs to be addressed Harden not cut out for this system. Too bad about the non-pass by Santos, everyone makes mistakes. I also think that for some reason the defense looks unsettled and unconfident.

The team still has a ways to go but I do like the players they have brought in, yes perhaps a DP striker in the summer to shore up the offence is needed, and the RB player (that might exist in our club whether it is Nana or Williams) are all that is needed. Weird that the LB position seemed so worrying now has decent depth.

[Rocco]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5583396441_921bf69747_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15861017@N08/5583396441/)


Should have been 2-1. nuff said. With this kind of officiating, how do you expect me to take this league seriously?

[David_Oliveira]

What pissed me off the most was the lack of play down the left side with Stavanovic, especially in the first. I can't believe the amount of times that he was wide open on the left and the left cb or the lb would pass back to the goalie or switch to the right. I think we have two brilliant wingers so lets start using both of them

[coachbruijns]

I just don't understand why Martina hardly saw the ball in the 2nd half. I know Plata won't get a head on any crosses, but it doesn't mean you have to shun Martina.

[AL-MO]

the craziest thing from today is Labrocca thinks he is a #10

The funniest thing today was watching you charge down to the bottom of 112 with the megaphone to give it to said #10.

[Yohan]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5583396441_921bf69747_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15861017@N08/5583396441/) Should have been 2-1. nuff said. With this kind of officiating, how do you expect me to take this league seriously?
feet was onside, but the head and body wasn't. according to FIFA rules, that is offside

[AL-MO]

I'm intrigued by Stevanovic, I think he has a lot to offer. And I think the Martina/Stevanovic combo on the wings could be great.

BUT...he has some adjusting to do, and I'm hoping Supporters give him a few games before writing him off for his constant displays of frustration. You're not playing in Italy anymore! Not every ball is going to be passed exactly where you want it. (and at the right time)

[Pookie]

I was getting a little tired of the focus on the offside and De Vos trying to make it a controversy. The concept of it being close so the decision should favour the attacker was silly. How do you expect someone to interpret that. It was offside, ref got it right.

Good service by Peterson today. With 40% of the roster that dressed for the 2nd half having trained together for less than a week, collecting themselves from the first 20 mins onslaught and earning a point is a positive to build on.

I too like the Stevanovic/Martina potential. Williams played well too.

[Pachuco]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5583396441_921bf69747_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15861017@N08/5583396441/)


Should have been 2-1. nuff said. With this kind of officiating, how do you expect me to take this league seriously?

I'm curious what you see in this picture that makes you think he was onside? I don't know how much more Maicon's head cut stick out to show that he's offside.

It's actually pretty incredible that the ref got the call right and he doesn't have the ability to pause the game like you did. Even if he got it wrong, we are talking about a difference in millimeters here.

[ensco]

^It's not just, or even really, about Maicon's being offside.

The keeper deflected the ball, which made that irrelevant. It was a rebound. Toledo should have overruled the linesman because of that - full stop.

[AL-MO]

^It's not just, or even really, about Maicon's being offside.

The keeper deflected the ball, which made that irrelevant. It was a rebound. Toledo should have overruled the linesman because of that - full stop.

He originally signaled it was a goal before seeing the linesman with his flag up.

[AL-MO]

I was getting a little tired of the focus on the offside and De Vos trying to make it a controversy. The concept of it being close so the decision should favour the attacker was silly. How do you expect someone to interpret that. It was offside, ref got it right.

Good service by Peterson today. With 40% of the roster that dressed for the 2nd half having trained together for less than a week, collecting themselves from the first 20 mins onslaught and earning a point is a positive to build on.

I too like the Stevanovic/Martina potential. Williams played well too.

We actually have some wingers.

NO FUCKING WAY!!!

:flare:

[Rocco]

feet was onside, but the head and body wasn't. according to FIFA rules, that is offside

You're correct on the rule... but that's not what I'm saying. I wish we could see it from a different angle cuz the TV view looks suspect. From where I was sitting, with no bias what so ever, I was certain he was onside.

Other than that, I felt there were more than one example that lead me to believe that improvements to the officiating could have lead to a different result. Toronto is playing the best quality of soccer I've seen in four years. Many posts pointed out weak defending and lack of midfielders. This is a communications issue and this can be explained by the lack of chemistry between the players. I can see us improving very quickly once the guys get together for a few more practices.

[werewolf]

Maicon's shoulder and head are beyond the Chivas defenders upperbody, but not necessarily past his knee. As well as if the ball was deflected off Chivas.

[Rocco]

I'm curious what you see in this picture that makes you think he was onside? I don't know how much more Maicon's head cut stick out to show that he's offside.

It's actually pretty incredible that the ref got the call right and he doesn't have the ability to pause the game like you did. Even if he got it wrong, we are talking about a difference in millimeters here.

Actually look at the defender's shoulder, it lines up with Maicon's head. Assume the linesman blew it, where is the "official"? Ref calls it a goal, without consulting his assistant. Is there a new FIFA rule that I'm not aware of that says the linesman can over rule the official? That's what really gets me.

[brad]

I have noticed this too. Last week's game Portland stayed in the dugout but TFC stayed out. This week, both teams were in chairs at field level. Is the view that poor or is it the wind in the face?

I thought maybe out in the sun where it is warmer

[Kc17]

Frei
Revolvingdoor - Nana - Cann - Yourassowsky
Tchani - Zavarise - JDG
Martina - Santos - Stevanovic


I think that would be a nice line-up moving forward, versatile front three, a two way midfield that can attack just as well as they can defend, and a solid looking defensive back four (Cann and Attakora should really be a top tier MLS CB pairing)

I'm hoping we see something like that in San Jose if all are healthy.

[rocker]

Does anybody know how the heck the pitch got such strange worn-out spots at both ends (which they have attempted to patch)? It's not the normal wear-pattern you see on soccer fields; it's also different from what I remember last year when the pitch started looking rough in spots.

It's two spots on each side, just outside the 6-yard box I believe. Did they leave the goals sitting there all winter or something stupid? I thought overall the pitch looked like crap today, so many divots all over, and that turf coming up in bunches was just bush-league.

I read somewhere that those spots were areas that got ruined during MLS Cup. So they never regrew. they've been putting rolls of grass on them and patting them down during breaks.

[yellowfellow]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5583396441_921bf69747_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15861017@N08/5583396441/)


Should have been 2-1. nuff said. With this kind of officiating, how do you expect me to take this league seriously?

Offside.

[Dreadlocks]

^It's not just, or even really, about Maicon's being offside.

The keeper deflected the ball, which made that irrelevant. It was a rebound. Toledo should have overruled the linesman because of that - full stop.

I saw the deflection too and it was indeed a rebound and could have been called a goal as a result.
However, one could argue that Santos' presence changed the way the keeper played the ball and thus was involved in the play - making him offside even though there was a direct "effort" on goal that was played by the keeper. Santos' head was in an offside postion when the ball was played into the are so unless he was deemed to be not involved in the play, he's off.

Not too happy dropping the points but we're in the middle of a process so what can we do?

[Suds]

Offside.

Have to agree. Based on that pic the linesman is going to see a lot of red visible to the goal side of the defender because of how the TFC player is leaning that way. They will call that offside all the time.

[noochie]

Close call always can go either way and based on the rule wording will always have multiple interpretations and be argued both ways. That being said, MLS instructed officials to interpret the rule in favor of the attacking team which was not done here and was not done on at least 2 other occasions around the league today.

All that said... if you don't fall asleep for 20min periods and bury your chances you inevitably don't end up debating offside rulings.

Oh and on a scale of 1-10 today, Nana was a -1.

[DOMIN8R]

I'm pleased with what I saw from JDG today. Overpaid - yes. But the work rate, up front pressure, tackles and channel closing looked promising. He seemed to be doing alot of communicating out there to help the team keep it's shape. But we really have to find another dead ball specialist. He's not going to cut it.


^Domin8r, you're kidding, right? JDG won no balls, couldn't link up with the back line, and continues to play sideways or backwards balls only (unlike Tchani btw). I give it 10 games max before Winter sits JDG and/or starts the process to move him out.

Always a shock to see the otherwise sagacious Domin8r get one wrong! ;-)

What's great about this board is that we are able to have opposing viewpoints and state them reasonably.

I think you should reread my post. I maintain that I'm pleased with what I saw for a player (perhaps I should have added), who has been out for so long.

JDG won balls. Not as many as we would have liked - but he won balls and broke up plays, as is his role.

Also, don't forget how different the game can look from different sides of the pitch, as we've discussed before.

But at the end of the day, JDG is the wrong DP for this league. This is a generalization of course, but I think he's too small for the MLS which - I think - is bigger, more physical and more difficult for smaller players in general. JDG continues and will continue to get muscled off the ball.

[TorontoGooner]

Anyone else notice yesterday how many 'fans' were moving too and from their seats whilst the game was going on? It annoys me that people feel the need to pop down for a hot dog when we have a corner.

Dunno, may seem petty, I just noticed it more than ever yesterday

[denime]

Did anyone watch the same game as me? Gave the ball away far too frequently, midfield failed to track back, up front we only threatened on long balls and in all fairness we played like the away team.

I know it's going to take time but I can't tolerate basic twenty yard passes not making it to feet. A long season coming up.

Agree since they are not 11 old kids I expect from a professional player to be able to pass the ball to the feet of his teammate.

It called basic skills and I remember Winter said in one of his first interviews how surprised he was that so many players( in the roster he inherited )don't have a basic skill of controlling and passing the ball.

What Winter is expecting from his players is posted in this thread:

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=27099&page=2

mid page, post 10 & 11

[ensco]

What's great about this board is that we are able to have opposing viewpoints and state them reasonably.

I think you should reread my post. I maintain that I'm pleased with what I saw for a player (perhaps I should have added), who has been out for so long.

JDG won balls. Not as many as we would have liked - but he won balls and broke up plays, as is his role.

Also, don't forget how different the game can look from different sides of the pitch, as we've discussed before.

But at the end of the day, JDG is the wrong DP for this league. This is a generalization of course, but I think he's too small for the MLS which - I think - is bigger, more physical and more difficult for smaller players in general. JDG continues and will continue to get muscled off the ball.

Ahh, I was mad about the Whitecaps amazing finish and was just looking for a scrap!

For me, JDG was a disappointment yesterday. I was really hoping he'd look different this year, but I didn't think he did. It could be the injury.

[swan]

i don't think jdg will be what everyone thinks ( great in this new system ) i think he will be just as good as he was last year and shit the bed.. will gladly eat my words ...

i didn't think he played great yesterday but he has been injured and missed most of preseason and just got back so time is needed for him to see what he can do..

[Technorgasm]

are you in sect. 119?

you suck.
every time TFC scores, on the TV they show sec 119. . and the celebrations from the fans are very pedestrian.

why oh why dont they show the 111-112 corner is beyond me. . . we were losing our shit when that set piece went in and the goal that was obviously on side.

I hate football. we deserved the result.

NORB

[Suds]

i don't think jdg will be what everyone thinks ( great in this new system ) i think he will be just as good as he was last year and shit the bed.. will gladly eat my words ...

i didn't think he played great yesterday but he has been injured and missed most of preseason and just got back so time is needed for him to see what he can do..


IMO - I think we will see him settle into a solid player in our system. No massive impact, but a solid player to create movement in the midfield. Like someone posted above, it's hard to justify the big price tag of his salary with the position he plays and the impact he will make. It's not his fault. He asked for $$ and the team gave it to him.

As for the game in general, first 20 minutes was brutal but I was glad to see we were able to start getting our feet under us as the game went on. We are still very disjointed all over the filed for long periods of time throughout the game. Midfielders are still not strong in the system which is tough because they are so key to it working.

I liked some things I saw from Tchani. Lot's of potential there.

Other than that, we need to sign this team up for the under 10's passing clinics around the city. Some of the passing out there is borderline criminal. :o

[David_Oliveira]

are you in sect. 119?

you suck.
every time TFC scores, on the TV they show sec 119. . and the celebrations from the fans are very pedestrian.

why oh why dont they show the 111-112 corner is beyond me. . . we were losing our shit when that set piece went in and the goal that was obviously on side.

I hate football. we deserved the result.

NORB

As long as it's only the bottom of 111. The top is horrible. Two games in and it is starting to irk me. I get dirty looks from people, who are bringing in toddlers, for chanting, and sometimes a swear hear or there slips out. Yesterday a gentleman asked a couple to sit down because his kid couldn't see. The top of 111 is turning into a daycare or something. That and chants will last a minute or two tops. It's getting irritating. It seems that, for the most part, people bought tickets in the section because they were cheap and didn't realize that it was a supporter section. Now I'm not grouping everyone in the same boat. Some people are trying but come on. If you are in 111 next game lets see you actually get alittle lively up there.

[brad]

Agree since they are not 11 old kids I expect from a professional player to be able to pass the ball to the feet of his teammate.

It called basic skills and I remember Winter said in one of his first interviews how surprised he was that so many players( in the roster he inherited )don't have a basic skill of controlling and passing the ball.

What Winter is expecting from his players is posted in this thread:

http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=27099&page=2

mid page, post 10 & 11

There were what, 3 misplaced passes across the back yesterday while there was no pressure on the passer or receiver? That's unacceptable from a pro. I'm a semi-decent part timer and I can complete passes like that in my sleep.

Big problem with player development in N. America. Too much focus on winning at a young age, not enough on developing technical abilities.

[Technorgasm]

As long as it's only the bottom of 111. The top is horrible. Two games in and it is starting to irk me. I get dirty looks from people, who are bringing in toddlers, for chanting, and sometimes a swear hear or there slips out. Yesterday a gentleman asked a couple to sit down because his kid couldn't see. The top of 111 is turning into a daycare or something. That and chants will last a minute or two tops. It's getting irritating. It seems that, for the most part, people bought tickets in the section because they were cheap and didn't realize that it was a supporter section. Now I'm not grouping everyone in the same boat. Some people are trying but come on. If you are in 111 next game lets see you actually get alittle lively up there.

really?
next game im fuckin come up there and gonna get rowdy!
im watching VCWC game now, they are loud !
where are all the people? seemed a bit thin in the stands yest.


that does sound concerning. a guy brought his kid into my row . .by the second "cunt" he disappeared . . .i was holing the big red TFC flag for most of the game . . .i looked over at 112-113 and they were going fuckin bonkersw. drum held high people like falling overthemselves . . i think the goal was very unexpected. . TFC scoring from a set piece header?

its a new dawn at BMO, SOoo many positives from this match.
cant wait for JDG to come back to full firing fitness.

NORB

[David_Oliveira]

really?
next game im fuckin come up there and gonna get rowdy!
im watching VCWC game now, they are loud !
where are all the people? seemed a bit thin in the stands yest.


that does sound concerning. a guy brought his kid into my row . .by the second "cunt" he disappeared . . .i was holing the big red TFC flag for most of the game . . .i looked over at 112-113 and they were going fuckin bonkersw. drum held high people like falling overthemselves . . i think the goal was very unexpected. . TFC scoring from a set piece header?

its a new dawn at BMO, SOoo many positives from this match.
cant wait for JDG to come back to full firing fitness.

NORB

You're more than welcome to. It's bad. two games and row 27 has seen many different faces.

[Technorgasm]

sec 111 has a LOT of flex pack seats apparently. . . thats the "starts at $239" spot.
http://www.torontofc.ca/flex-packs


Id also like to se the game from up there. . when the play is at the other end it is tough to read the play, might be easier from a higher viewpoint.

HELLO! HELLO! its good to be back its good to be back !!

[denime]

There were what, 3 misplaced passes across the back yesterday while there was no pressure on the passer or receiver? That's unacceptable from a pro. I'm a semi-decent part timer and I can complete passes like that in my sleep.

Big problem with player development in N. America. Too much focus on winning at a young age, not enough on developing technical abilities.

You are absolutely right,and this is main reason why MLS is "physical"league,MLS can't be technical league since players don't have a basic skills.
Now what Winter has to do with all NA players we have on our roster is literally retrain that at the age 20+.

That's almost mission impossible,this is why Winter is signing players who were develop outside NA.

[Technorgasm]

tha tis extrememly short sighted and generalistic to say ALL NORTH AMERICAN PLAYERS have poor technical abilities . . . and especialy so becaus of the focus on winning. think of all the university coaches across NA, a lot of them from other countires, with many different styles.

we have a new system, and winter has a job to deploy it. . . . but the football we HAVE sen so far is a HUGE improvement. once it clicks, we are going to see some very entertaining ball and a lot of goals. . will the results come as well? time will tell.
I gotta say
pushing the fullbacks up and into the forward play has been a treat.
coupke that with the excellence of MArtina. . and it looks as if TFC actually has some wide play. . . .

going to do the job vs the quakes.

[Pachuco]

Actually look at the defender's shoulder, it lines up with Maicon's head. Assume the linesman blew it, where is the "official"? Ref calls it a goal, without consulting his assistant. Is there a new FIFA rule that I'm not aware of that says the linesman can over rule the official? That's what really gets me.

It doesn't, but anyways. You are ripping on the league and the refs because of a call that was millimeters away from being right or wrong. I can probably show you world cup and champions leagues games where a ref got an offside wrong that was alot more obvious then this one.

Who cares if the ref didn't consult the assistance....I don't even know if that's true. The point is, if he didn't see it and the linesman put his flag up then what does he need to consult?

[swan]

IMO - I think we will see him settle into a solid player in our system. No massive impact, but a solid player to create movement in the midfield. Like someone posted above, it's hard to justify the big price tag of his salary with the position he plays and the impact he will make. It's not his fault. He asked for $$ and the team gave it to him.

As for the game in general, first 20 minutes was brutal but I was glad to see we were able to start getting our feet under us as the game went on. We are still very disjointed all over the filed for long periods of time throughout the game. Midfielders are still not strong in the system which is tough because they are so key to it working.

I liked some things I saw from Tchani. Lot's of potential there.

Other than that, we need to sign this team up for the under 10's passing clinics around the city. Some of the passing out there is borderline criminal. :o


like i said i will gladly eat my words i hope you are right i really do..

[Pachuco]

Tchani could very well be the best thing that happens to JDG. Tony is strong on the ball, extremely good at holding the ball up and moving it around the midfield. He should allow JDG to have more freedom and maybe take some of the dirty work off his hands. I think JDG will be alright this year, but Tchani will be even better and as a result we now have an above average pairing in the midfield.

[boban]

Offside.
If it is then what was the purpose of that directive about offside issued from Dan Garber?

[Nicholas982]

feels like we lost 2 pts more than winning 1

Bingo.

[jazzy]

If it is then what was the purpose of that directive about offside issued from Dan Garber?

don't you worry we'll see that same play as a goal against us this year and prob the same ref....lol

[ManUtd4ever]

Tchani could very well be the best thing that happens to JDG. Tony is strong on the ball, extremely good at holding the ball up and moving it around the midfield. He should allow JDG to have more freedom and maybe take some of the dirty work off his hands. I think JDG will be alright this year, but Tchani will be even better and as a result we now have an above average pairing in the midfield.

Agreed.

[nimamalek]

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5225/5583396441_921bf69747_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/15861017@N08/5583396441/)


Should have been 2-1. nuff said. With this kind of officiating, how do you expect me to take this league seriously?

the rule is when the ball is hit, not when the player starts to shoot, if you let the video run another 1/2 second when the ball is actually hit, you'll see santos offside, ref made the right call

[rocker]

Tchani could very well be the best thing that happens to JDG. Tony is strong on the ball, extremely good at holding the ball up and moving it around the midfield. He should allow JDG to have more freedom and maybe take some of the dirty work off his hands. I think JDG will be alright this year, but Tchani will be even better and as a result we now have an above average pairing in the midfield.

I saw the same things.

Another thing I noticed with Tchani is he gets all over the field where needed. He's got great awareness of where he should be and where other players are being stretched and need his help. One minute he was right in front of me helping out Harden, and the next minute he was up front leading the attack out to Martina.

[Nuvinho]

Borman could also be a good addition, he doesn't have a problem going forward. Probably needs to work on his defensive game, but looked good in his first game.

[Yohan]

Borman could also be a good addition, he doesn't have a problem going forward. Probably needs to work on his defensive game, but looked good in his first game.
exactly what I thought as well.

I wonder if Borman or Yourass can play RB... though Yourass looks stronger of two, so he should be tried at RB

[rocktml]

Still feeling sick about the Santos miss. Ugh what a fucking shoemaker!

[algieb]

respect goes a long way ,iff you have family some day and take them to a game and the person next to you is swearing all through the game, remember youre actions on that day,proud you chased a man and his kid from the game tfc needs fans like you to help them grow lol

[Yohan]

respect goes a long way ,iff you have family some day and take them to a game and the person next to you is swearing all through the game, remember youre actions on that day,proud you chased a man and his kid from the game tfc needs fans like you to help them grow lol
or, that family guy is a little silly for buying tickets in a supporter's section, and he should have known what supporter's section is all about

[LesH]

Agreed. JDG may not be worth 1.7 million, but once he regains his fitness he will be a very solid player for TFC this season.

IMO he's a solid MLS player worth not more than $400,000 per year (anyways less than MerRo) and a horrible DP.

Yeah, I admit I'm almost a JDG hater (but just because seeing how much he contributed to this team since here compared to the money he's making, and I had no idea about the guy before coming to TFC), but the problem is that in the next 9-10 games if he'll still do almost nothing to improve seriously this team, the JDG lovers will excuse him saying that he's still recovering from the operation.

And yeah, IMO per total his contribution to the success of TFC this year will be also hugely under the contribution of an average MLS DP to his team. I wish I were wrong, but... I just can't see it in any other way.

[flatpicker]

As long as it's only the bottom of 111. The top is horrible. Two games in and it is starting to irk me. I get dirty looks from people, who are bringing in toddlers, for chanting, and sometimes a swear hear or there slips out. Yesterday a gentleman asked a couple to sit down because his kid couldn't see. The top of 111 is turning into a daycare or something. That and chants will last a minute or two tops. It's getting irritating. It seems that, for the most part, people bought tickets in the section because they were cheap and didn't realize that it was a supporter section. Now I'm not grouping everyone in the same boat. Some people are trying but come on. If you are in 111 next game lets see you actually get alittle lively up there.


sec 111 has a LOT of flex pack seats apparently. . . thats the "starts at $239" spot.
http://www.torontofc.ca/flex-packs


Id also like to se the game from up there. . when the play is at the other end it is tough to read the play, might be easier from a higher viewpoint.

HELLO! HELLO! its good to be back its good to be back !!

Gotta say, I'm getting a little tired of the lack of enthusiasm in the top of 111.
It's actually getting worse each season.
I couldn't find a taker for my second ticket, so I spent the last game in 112 instead.
But even the top of 112 is really quiet.
I think enthusiasm is dropping off all over the stadium... being a crap team might have something to do with that.

Techno, you should come up top in 111 some day if you want a better view of the game.
It's nice up there... and there are usually a couple of vacant seats around.

[levyashin]

Next weeks team should read. Frei
attacora----Cann--------Williams--------Yourofski
deguzman---------Tchani--------Stephanovic
Martina------------Gordon---------Santos
this would be a more balanced team. Not the finished product by any stretch of the imagination.For the most part the game was very flat in part due to The Trade; fans and team very disjointed.

[Cashcleaner]

Gotta say, I'm getting a little tired of the lack of enthusiasm in the top of 111.
It's actually getting worse each season.
I couldn't find a taker for my second ticket, so I spent the last game in 112 instead.
But even the top of 112 is really quiet.
I think enthusiasm is dropping off all over the stadium... being a crap team might have something to do with that.

Techno, you should come up top in 111 some day if you want a better view of the game.
It's nice up there... and there are usually a couple of vacant seats around.


Are your seats still up in my neck of the woods? It's shitty, but in my immediate area the fans are really quiet. The two guys behind me have pretty funny commentary, though. Gotta say, the home opener was a lot quieter than I expected, though we can blame the cold for some of that.

[lobo]

respect goes a long way ,iff you have family some day and take them to a game and the person next to you is swearing all through the game, remember youre actions on that day,proud you chased a man and his kid from the game tfc needs fans like you to help them grow lol

swearing is not exclusive to TFC games ... unless that man keeps his kids on a really tight leash, they're gonna hear it almost everywhere they go ... but whether it was just swearing or maybe some really obnoxious behaviour, then that man should be a man and deal with it, whether it be by talking to the ppl involved, or calling the stadium staff if necessary, or maybe moving to diff seats (lots of choice at games now)

if the guy chooses to run and never come back, that's his decision ... like never take the TTC again, or never walk the street again, cause people will swear there too

[TFC/Everton]

I missed the game yesterday and watching the highlights doesn't give a good perspective on how JDG played. Did he seem to gel with the new system?

[ryan]

Gotta say, I'm getting a little tired of the lack of enthusiasm in the top of 111.
It's actually getting worse each season.
I couldn't find a taker for my second ticket, so I spent the last game in 112 instead.
But even the top of 112 is really quiet.
I think enthusiasm is dropping off all over the stadium... being a crap team might have something to do with that.

Techno, you should come up top in 111 some day if you want a better view of the game.
It's nice up there... and there are usually a couple of vacant seats around.


I too sit up there, literally in the top corner and there's been empty seats in the first two games. Myself and a couple older guys in front of my are usually the only ones that get involved in the fun.

[flatpicker]

Are your seats still up in my neck of the woods? It's shitty, but in my immediate area the fans are really quiet. The two guys behind me have pretty funny commentary, though. Gotta say, the home opener was a lot quieter than I expected, though we can blame the cold for some of that.

yup... still row 25.
It's pretty dull.
It's hard to participate in a chant when nobody else cares.

[KGH]

Next weeks team should read. Frei
attacora----Cann--------Williams--------Yourofski
deguzman---------Tchani--------Stephanovic
Martina------------Gordon---------Santos



:thumbsup:

[Torontotonto]

Why was Dero not traded before the season started?

If you know you're going to trade him ... sit him until something can be worked out.

The team is clearly out of sorts now.

I don't understand this clown show ... I honestly don't.

What's not to understand it's run by MLSE.

[Fushida]

Still feeling sick about the Santos miss. Ugh what a fucking shoemaker!

get a grip. it's a once in a career miss for most footballers. as long as he's not gracing us with these shockers every other game, can we please let this go?

[denime]

tha tis extrememly short sighted and generalistic to say ALL NORTH AMERICAN PLAYERS have poor technical abilities . . . and especialy so becaus of the focus on winning. think of all the university coaches across NA, a lot of them from other countires, with many different styles.

Sorry Techno but once payers hit college it to late for development,no matter how many coaches from overseas you have ,they can't teach a player at that age how to play this game.

Development is between age of 6-16 and this is where rest of the world is focusing on skill developing,while here kids have competition after competition,and parents pressuring coaches to win 5$ plastic trophy at any price.

If you don't have a kid involved in NA development system or better to say Canadian system (US change their few years back) you can't understand what I'm trying to say.

This is how rest of the world develops soccer players:

Age 6-9 FUNdamentals - Learn all fundamental movement skills
Age 9-12 Learning To Train - Fundamental sport skills
Age 12-16 Training To Train - Critical Skill and Physical Development
Age 16-23 Training To Compete- Competitive Development
Age 23+ Training to Win - Performance Development

North America/Canada

Age 6-23 Training to Win - Performance Development

I think we are missing certain steps in development,no?

And if you don't believe me,just ask RPB fellows whose kids are involved with Ontario Soccer Associations Pyramid of Play how screw up is our soccer development.

[Roogsy]

Sorry Techno but once payers hit college it to late for development,no matter how many coaches from overseas you have ,they can't teach a player at that age how to play this game.

Development is between age of 6-16 and this is where rest of the world is focusing on skill developing,while here kids have competition after competition,and parents pressuring coaches to win 5$ plastic trophy at any price.

If you don't have a kid involved in NA development system or better to say Canadian system (US change their few years back) you can't understand what I'm trying to say.

This is how rest of the world develops soccer players:

Age 6-9 FUNdamentals - Learn all fundamental movement skills
Age 9-12 Learning To Train - Fundamental sport skills
Age 12-16 Training To Train - Critical Skill and Physical Development
Age 16-23 Training To Compete- Competitive Development
Age 23+ Training to Win - Performance Development

North America/Canada

Age 6-23 Training to Win - Performance Development

I think we are missing certain steps in development,no?

And if you don't believe me,just ask RPB fellows whose kids are involved with Ontario Soccer Associations Pyramid of Play how screw up is our soccer development.


THIS! Amen Denis...

[Pachuco]

get a grip. it's a once in a career miss for most footballers. as long as he's not gracing us with these shockers every other game, can we please let this go?

I couldn't agree with this more. People are jumping at Maicon's miss on Saturday and calling him selfish. Dude, it's one thing to be pissed off at that play but another to call a player selfish. If there is one thing Santos has shown since he came here is that he isn't selfish. He made a mistake and I don't expect him to do something like that again. How quickly people forget the good with one bad play.

[Whoop]

I have no issue with Maicon. It was just a bad miss/decision. It happens.

And I have to agree with denime's post 100%.

[Derko]

get a grip. it's a once in a career miss for most footballers. as long as he's not gracing us with these shockers every other game, can we please let this go?

I agree, I thought that the ball actually bounced up almost uncontrollable into Maicon's knees, just how I saw it, funny how when Maicon scored that cracker against Vancouver he was a hero, and If the blast he let fly in the first half had have been a goal, again he would have been a hero, God you guy's are pretty fucking FICKLE Supporters, and I actually saw quite a bit of creativity from TFC. Could have been 2-1 or even 3-1.

[bgnewf]

TFC v Chivas USA Post Game Video Blog

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/04/chivas-video-blog/

Some quick hits on the game Saturday past which saw Toronto FC draw with Chivas USA 1-1 in an error prone affair. As well I offer up my two cents on the trade this past Friday that saw TFC captain Dwayne de Rosario leave Toronto for New York.

[arbogast]

TFC v Chivas USA Post Game Video Blog

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/04/chivas-video-blog/

Some quick hits on the game Saturday past which saw Toronto FC draw with Chivas USA 1-1 in an error prone affair. As well I offer up my two cents on the trade this past Friday that saw TFC captain Dwayne de Rosario leave Toronto for New York.

Nice post. Hard to disagree with you re: Gordon, I thought he's looked last week as well. and kudos for your kind words re: Dero.

[Yohan]

TFC v Chivas USA Post Game Video Blog

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/04/chivas-video-blog/

Some quick hits on the game Saturday past which saw Toronto FC draw with Chivas USA 1-1 in an error prone affair. As well I offer up my two cents on the trade this past Friday that saw TFC captain Dwayne de Rosario leave Toronto for New York.
enjoy your insights but ah, can you, ah, stop saying ah, like, ah, every third word? ah? :D (it really is distracting)

[drexel10]

Santos was alone with the keeper and he did what he did because of the miss last week against Portland. He had a good opportunity and hit it and the keeper made a save. This time he thought about taking a shot and altered his natural thought by dribbling around the keeper. The miss after that was proabaly caused by congestion with Boyens and Stefanovic. He didn't even see an opportunity to pass because he had his head down and he was focused on how to beat the goalie. He overthought the situation.

[lobo]

Santos was alone with the keeper and he did what he did because of the miss last week against Portland. He had a good opportunity and hit it and the keeper made a save. This time he thought about taking a shot and altered his natural thought by dribbling around the keeper. The miss after that was proabaly caused by congestion with Boyens and Stefanovic. He didn't even see an opportunity to pass because he had his head down and he was focused on how to beat the goalie. He overthought the situation.

well thats a nice excuse for a boneheaded play .. santos ignored stev who was screaming for the ball ... the miss was boyens getting a leg in, which doesn't happen if santos makes the nice easy no-brainer square pass

[drexel10]

well thats a nice excuse for a boneheaded play .. santos ignored stev who was screaming for the ball ... the miss was boyens getting a leg in, which doesn't happen if santos makes the nice easy no-brainer square pass


Ya, I am telling that he didn't even see the option. I think you guys are taking the miss way out of proportion, but that is typical.

[jloome]

well thats a nice excuse for a boneheaded play .. santos ignored stev who was screaming for the ball ... the miss was boyens getting a leg in, which doesn't happen if santos makes the nice easy no-brainer square pass

Anyone who's scuffed an easy one like that can say he was probably going to finish it and at the last second got caught in two minds and thought about rolling the square pass. End result, we get neither.

[Shakes McQueen]

I couldn't agree with this more. People are jumping at Maicon's miss on Saturday and calling him selfish. Dude, it's one thing to be pissed off at that play but another to call a player selfish. If there is one thing Santos has shown since he came here is that he isn't selfish. He made a mistake and I don't expect him to do something like that again. How quickly people forget the good with one bad play.

Absolutely. Guys on our team are occasionally going to make bad plays. It's fine to groan, but unless they make a habit of it, I think calling them "selfish" is way over the top.

Let's not make Maicon this year's designated scapegoat, please.

- Scott

[ag futbol]

Things could always be worse.. ahem

http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/pub/mid//APBatch/20110403/20110403/4371597.jpg

[TFCRegina]

Sorry Techno but once payers hit college it to late for development,no matter how many coaches from overseas you have ,they can't teach a player at that age how to play this game.

Development is between age of 6-16 and this is where rest of the world is focusing on skill developing,while here kids have competition after competition,and parents pressuring coaches to win 5$ plastic trophy at any price.

If you don't have a kid involved in NA development system or better to say Canadian system (US change their few years back) you can't understand what I'm trying to say.

This is how rest of the world develops soccer players:

Age 6-9 FUNdamentals - Learn all fundamental movement skills
Age 9-12 Learning To Train - Fundamental sport skills
Age 12-16 Training To Train - Critical Skill and Physical Development
Age 16-23 Training To Compete- Competitive Development
Age 23+ Training to Win - Performance Development

North America/Canada

Age 6-23 Training to Win - Performance Development

I think we are missing certain steps in development,no?

And if you don't believe me,just ask RPB fellows whose kids are involved with Ontario Soccer Associations Pyramid of Play how screw up is our soccer development.

And I believe Ontario is ahead of the curve on their development programs. There's a reason why most Canadian soccer players come from Ontario and BC...

The rest of the country lags even more hopelessly behind the rest of the world.

[Super Cereal]

And I believe Ontario is ahead of the curve on their development programs. There's a reason why most Canadian soccer players come from Ontario and BC...

The rest of the country lags even more hopelessly behind the rest of the world.

Quebec isn't horrible either.

[lobo]

Ya, I am telling that he didn't even see the option. I think you guys are taking the miss way out of proportion, but that is typical.

it happened, shit happens, boneheaded plays happen ... i like santos, but i was stunned that he didn't make that pass ... it wasn't a scuffed ball or a miss, it was a fail, no need to make excuses for the guy ... santos was going for the glory on that one, and i'm not saying he does it all the time or is a selfish player, cause he's not, he makes some great plays .. if the truth is he really didn't see him square on or didn't hear stev, then there is reason for concern about him, but i don't think that's the case .. it was a lost opportunity

[Roogsy]

Absolutely. Guys on our team are occasionally going to make bad plays. It's fine to groan, but unless they make a habit of it, I think calling them "selfish" is way over the top.

Let's not make Maicon this year's designated scapegoat, please.

- Scott

Are you really talking to TFC fans here?

I would expect no less from this group. If Maicon misses another opportunity, I'd be surprised they don't burn him in effigy.

[TFCRegina]

Are you really talking to TFC fans here?

I would expect no less from this group. If Maicon misses another opportunity, I'd be surprised they don't burn him in effigy.

Or just wait, Maicon will go on to a golden boot season, but he'll still be shit. Because he missed that chance against Chivas USA.

Or, after that golden boot season, he'll celebrate by telling the cameras "Show me the Reais. " Then he'll be the worst player in the history of TFC and should be traded or released, because he doesn't fight for the badge.

[scooterTFC]

Or just wait, Maicon will go on to a golden boot season, but he'll still be shit. Because he missed that chance against Chivas USA.

Or, after that golden boot season, he'll celebrate by telling the cameras "Show me the Reais. " Then he'll be the worst player in the history of TFC and should be traded or released, because he doesn't fight for the badge.
Yeah I think calling that mistake selfish is extreme. I looked at is a lack of familiarity/trust between teamates and probably language/communication problems as well.

What language would a Serb player use to tell Brazilian player that "I got it" in a game played in Canada on a team coached by dutchmen?

[Wooster_TFC]

Personally I believe that Santos didn't make the pass for two reasons, 1 he was one on one with the keeper and is a striker, so his only thought if to go for goal, and 2 he's all left foot. If he tries to make that pass with his right foot, or outside of his left, it's liable to be screwed up. Not that this enters his mind, but he's not going to be looking to pass to his left because of both of those reasons.

[lobo]

gentlemen, it may seem extreme to some of you to describe santos' missed opportunity in the 2nd half as selfish (which is not the same as calling the player selfish), but please tell me, how else do you describe a play where the ball carrier elects to take on the keeper and (as a result of playing around the keeper) also has to beat a defender on his own, when he has a teammate wide open calling for the ball (in any language)?

if this play happens anywhere else on the pitch where ball carrier takes on 2 players instead of laying off to open teammate, how would you describe it?

as i said, shit happens, but this one cost us and i'm hugely disappointed ... which apparently to some of you means scapegoating and a hanging effigy soon (?) ... whatever

maybe stev is at fault for not being in a supporting postion? yeah.

[Section 117]

IMO the biggest problem with this team is the back 4 are shit period they are amateur at best. None of them can pass a ball. This will be the done fall of this team period. To have the system Winter wants in place the most important aspect from anyone player is the ability to distribute the ball. Nanna, Cann, Harden can not make a pass if their life depended on it.

Also, people that think Nanna can play in Europe are smoking some crazy ass shit as he has way to many holes in his game. I for one can't wait till Winter replaces the back four as that is what this squad needs more than anything else

[Roogsy]

IMO the biggest problem with this team is the back 4 are shit period they are amateur at best. None of them can pass a ball. This will be the done fall of this team period. To have the system Winter wants in place the most important aspect from anyone player is the ability to distribute the ball. Nanna, Cann, Harden can not make a pass if their life depended on it.

Also, people that think Nanna can play in Europe are smoking some crazy ass shit as he has way to many holes in his game. I for one can't wait till Winter replaces the back four as that is what this squad needs more than anything else


This.

Now that the DeRo nonsense is gone, you and I can go back to agreeing on stuff P. :lol:

[trane]

Santos as the central attacking mid makes no sense to me, I would rather move Stevanovic there, and use someone else as the LFW.

The role played by Santos should be that of a playmaker. A playmaker who does not pass the ball there is a problem.

[Roogsy]

I wish they would have brought in Toni when they had the chance. Up top with supporting AMs.

[trane]

This.

Now that the DeRo nonsense is gone, you and I can go back to agreeing on stuff P. :lol:

I was high on Attakora, but his progress has slowed, that is for sure. The CB has to be able to make the simple safe pass to the mids or the fullback it is just an essential part of the position. Even if you are the greatest marker and tackler and nobody on this team is, if you cannot make that pass, you have negated your other qualities.

[ The pass a CB should make is technicaly simple to make, but you have to have vision to make it to the right player, and the cool not to fuck it up under pressure]

[trane]

I wish they would have brought in Toni when they had the chance. Up top with supporting AMs.


^ Was this a serious possibility?

[Nicholas982]

Still feeling sick about the Santos miss. Ugh what a fucking shoemaker!


We're going to miss those 2 points come September.

[Roogsy]

^ Was this a serious possibility?

Yes. It was a while back though. During Mo's reign. It was confirmed to me by several sources.

But this is TFC. We screw up in every which way possible.

[Nicholas982]

Cann/Attakora 2011 = Hill/Lind 2010

:(

[Gazza]

Absolutely. Guys on our team are occasionally going to make bad plays. It's fine to groan, but unless they make a habit of it, I think calling them "selfish" is way over the top.

Let's not make Maicon this year's designated scapegoat, please.

- Scott

It only took one half to get off the De Ro scapegoat train and hop right on the Maicon express.

I would expect nothing less.

[trane]

Roogsy, yeah.

I am trying to keep positivity, but it is not easy.

[Auzzy]

I still saw many occasions last Saturday, where nobody was making themselves available for simple/short passes from the defenders. Or only a single pass option was presented, which makes it easy to cover or break up. (Not always, but often.) Partly as a result, I saw more lobs & very long cross-field passes -- both risky given the swirling wind. Other times, the defenders incl. Frei went back to the old "boot it as far as I can upfield" routine. JDG in the second half was making himself more available -- but was sometimes put in a risky spot himself, when nobody was available for the next pass.

Yes I think the passing by the defense is mostly bad. Poor positioning by the rest of the team often aggravates the problem.

[trane]

^ Absolutley. Our players on the whole never understand that play is ongoing, that they have to keep on moving shifting position, both on defense and offence. you have to be continuously aware of what is happening around you and adjusting. Somehow this basic aspect of the game has elluded us, year in and year out. Once in a while we seem to get it and then it looks like a real intelligent adult footy game, but more often then not it is disapointing.

[jloome]

Are you really talking to TFC fans here?

I would expect no less from this group. If Maicon misses another opportunity, I'd be surprised they don't burn him in effigy.

Oh give it a rest.

[brad]

^ Absolutley. Our players on the whole never understand that play is ongoing, that they have to keep on moving shifting position, both on defense and offence. you have to be continuously aware of what is happening around you and adjusting. Somehow this basic aspect of the game has elluded us, year in and year out. Once in a while we seem to get it and then it looks like a real intelligent adult footy game, but more often then not it is disapointing.

It amazes me time in and time out that people getting paid to play the game don't have a grasp on these simple fundamentals. This stuff is taught to teenagers.

I watched my cousin play for a youth team (around 16 years old) of a third division club in England a few years back, and every kid on that pitch had a grasp on this.

[Section 117]

^ Was this a serious possibility?

Yes it was TFC balked at giving him 4 years guaranteed

[2mil4dero+santo]

IMO the biggest problem with this team is the back 4 are shit period they are amateur at best. None of them can pass a ball. This will be the done fall of this team period. To have the system Winter wants in place the most important aspect from anyone player is the ability to distribute the ball. Nanna, Cann, Harden can not make a pass if their life depended on it.

Also, people that think Nanna can play in Europe are smoking some crazy ass shit as he has way to many holes in his game. I for one can't wait till Winter replaces the back four as that is what this squad needs more than anything else

Exactly, people can talk tactics and formation until the cows come home, but until we get a back four that has half a brain between them, we're gonna finish close to last place every season.
Anyone else miss Marshall and Dunivant?

[Pachuco]

it happened, shit happens, boneheaded plays happen ... i like santos, but i was stunned that he didn't make that pass ... it wasn't a scuffed ball or a miss, it was a fail, no need to make excuses for the guy ... santos was going for the glory on that one, and i'm not saying he does it all the time or is a selfish player, cause he's not, he makes some great plays .. if the truth is he really didn't see him square on or didn't hear stev, then there is reason for concern about him, but i don't think that's the case .. it was a lost opportunity

Here is the thing. He's 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper. If he makes the pass and somehow it doesn't make it to Stevanovic then you are screaming as to why he didn't shoot himself. 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper I expect the striker to go for it himself 99% of the time. I wouldn't call that selfish.

There are a few cases I can think of that justifies his decision:

1. He doesn't see or hear Stevanovic. You know what's crazy? I didn't personaly see him until they came very close together. I was watching Maicon the whole time as he was all alone. I didn't see Maicon look up either.
2. He thinks passing the ball is riskier then just trying to score himself.

There's nothing wrong with the decision. There was something wrong with the end result. But I see this no different then if he took the shot and the goalie saved it. It didn't work out for him and I wish he scored. Hopefully we can move on from this now.

[Roogsy]

Here is the thing. He's 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper. If he makes the pass and somehow it doesn't make it to Stevanovic then you are screaming as to why he didn't shoot himself. 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper I expect the striker to go for it himself 99% of the time. I wouldn't call that selfish.

There are a few cases I can think of that justifies his decision:

1. He doesn't see or hear Stevanovic. You know what's crazy? I didn't personaly see him until they came very close together. I was watching Maicon the whole time as he was all alone. I didn't see Maicon look up either.
2. He thinks passing the ball is riskier then just trying to score himself.

There's nothing wrong with the decision. There was something wrong with the end result. But I see this no different then if he took the shot and the goalie saved it. It didn't work out for him and I wish he scored. Hopefully we can move on from this now.

This...

[2mil4dero+santo]

gentlemen, it may seem extreme to some of you to describe santos' missed opportunity in the 2nd half as selfish (which is not the same as calling the player selfish), but please tell me, how else do you describe a play where the ball carrier elects to take on the keeper and (as a result of playing around the keeper) also has to beat a defender on his own, when he has a teammate wide open calling for the ball (in any language)?

if this play happens anywhere else on the pitch where ball carrier takes on 2 players instead of laying off to open teammate, how would you describe it?

as i said, shit happens, but this one cost us and i'm hugely disappointed ... which apparently to some of you means scapegoating and a hanging effigy soon (?) ... whatever

maybe stev is at fault for not being in a supporting postion? yeah.

This is where I don't agree with a lot of posters on here. Goal scorers need to be selfish in order to score goals. The best goal scorers in the world have one thought in their minds when they have a sight of goal, and 95% of the time this is a good thing. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but there are a million ifs.
How many times did Barrett elect to make a pass when he should have gone for goal? IMO Santos had a better chance to put the ball into the net than than make a succesful pass to Stevanovich and then for Stevanovich to put the ball in the net.
Santos made the right decision to do what he's payed to do - put the ball in the net. The only thing that got in the way was some inspired last-ditch defending - something we're not used to seeing at TFC.

[bman27]

what got frustrating for me, especially for me, was to see Nana and Cann try to make the short pass down the middle and have it picked off when both Stevanovic and Martina were both barely being marked all game. IMHO the only times we looked dangerous were when those two had the ball, man how things change when we go from no wing play at all, to it being our best offensive option.

[2mil4dero+santo]

It only took one half to get off the De Ro scapegoat train and hop right on the Maicon express.

I would expect nothing less.

Welcome to TFC, where we run the best players out of town... After Santos is gone it will be Frei next lol.
We only accept losers please.

[trane]

It amazes me time in and time out that people getting paid to play the game don't have a grasp on these simple fundamentals. This stuff is taught to teenagers.

I watched my cousin play for a youth team (around 16 years old) of a third division club in England a few years back, and every kid on that pitch had a grasp on this.

yeah, it is realy frustrating after 4 plus years. You have those games that you think they get it, but it is all quickly gone.

[trane]

Here is the thing. He's 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper. If he makes the pass and somehow it doesn't make it to Stevanovic then you are screaming as to why he didn't shoot himself. 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper I expect the striker to go for it himself 99% of the time. I wouldn't call that selfish.

There are a few cases I can think of that justifies his decision:

1. He doesn't see or hear Stevanovic. You know what's crazy? I didn't personaly see him until they came very close together. I was watching Maicon the whole time as he was all alone. I didn't see Maicon look up either.
2. He thinks passing the ball is riskier then just trying to score himself.

There's nothing wrong with the decision. There was something wrong with the end result. But I see this no different then if he took the shot and the goalie saved it. It didn't work out for him and I wish he scored. Hopefully we can move on from this now.


I do not disagree, and I am not realy mad at Santos, but is he realy the guy to play as our playmaking mid?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

no but he will unfortunately have to suffice until we get another

[lobo]

Here is the thing. He's 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper. If he makes the pass and somehow it doesn't make it to Stevanovic then you are screaming as to why he didn't shoot himself. 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper I expect the striker to go for it himself 99% of the time. I wouldn't call that selfish.

There are a few cases I can think of that justifies his decision:

1. He doesn't see or hear Stevanovic. You know what's crazy? I didn't personaly see him until they came very close together. I was watching Maicon the whole time as he was all alone. I didn't see Maicon look up either.
2. He thinks passing the ball is riskier then just trying to score himself.

There's nothing wrong with the decision. There was something wrong with the end result. But I see this no different then if he took the shot and the goalie saved it. It didn't work out for him and I wish he scored. Hopefully we can move on from this now.

clearly we had different perspectives on the play ... from my perspective, its a 2 v 1, not 1 v 1 ... and as soon as santos made the move around the keeper, it became a 2 v 2 cause the defender recovered, and that defender broke the play up

he knew stev was there, he said so in an interview after, said he was confident in scoring ... in your scenario above, if he makes the pass and it doesn't result in a goal, i'm not gonna scream at him for not shooting, because in a 2 v 1 he's making the right play ... again i ask, do you attack a defender 1 v 1 at midfield when there is an open man square on? no, and no reason to do it inside th 18 either ... make the easy play, score the goal for the team not the glory



This is where I don't agree with a lot of posters on here. Goal scorers need to be selfish in order to score goals. The best goal scorers in the world have one thought in their minds when they have a sight of goal, and 95% of the time this is a good thing. Sometimes it doesn't work out, but there are a million ifs.
How many times did Barrett elect to make a pass when he should have gone for goal? IMO Santos had a better chance to put the ball into the net than than make a succesful pass to Stevanovich and then for Stevanovich to put the ball in the net.
Santos made the right decision to do what he's payed to do - put the ball in the net. The only thing that got in the way was some inspired last-ditch defending - something we're not used to seeing at TFC.

well, you're not disagreeing with me on what goal scorers need to do ... i will only comment that santos made the right decision for himself to put the ball in the net, as you said, but that isn't the same right decision for the team to put the ball in the net .. stev had the better chance, cause an open net is always a better chance


and for anybody who suggests this is scapegoating or the first effort to run maicon outta town, give it a rest ... it's just talk, for me that play was a no-brainer, easy square pass and stev hits an open net, no problem, some people may be hating on maicon, i'm not, i'm talking about a mistake ... those of you sitting in the south stands may not have seen what it really looked like, so maybe you don't understand how so many people can be so upset about the lost chance ... no hate here for santos, don't want to see him run outta town, but don't ever wanna see that ugliness again either

i haven't been here that long, but man oh man there are some jaded cynics here making huge leaping generalizations about 'everybody else' or the 'bandwagon' or 'toronto fans' ... wow, check yourselves next time you feel the need to post your ad hominem

lobo out.

[Cashcleaner]

Here is the thing. He's 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper. If he makes the pass and somehow it doesn't make it to Stevanovic then you are screaming as to why he didn't shoot himself. 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper I expect the striker to go for it himself 99% of the time. I wouldn't call that selfish.

There are a few cases I can think of that justifies his decision:

1. He doesn't see or hear Stevanovic. You know what's crazy? I didn't personaly see him until they came very close together. I was watching Maicon the whole time as he was all alone. I didn't see Maicon look up either.
2. He thinks passing the ball is riskier then just trying to score himself.

There's nothing wrong with the decision. There was something wrong with the end result. But I see this no different then if he took the shot and the goalie saved it. It didn't work out for him and I wish he scored. Hopefully we can move on from this now.

But I think people are forgetting the important modifier - Andy Boyens. Surely Santos knew Boyens was running up from behind to disrupt the goal attempt - and he ended up doing just that. Look at the replay and see for yourself, Boyens was well within hearing range and line-of-sight of Santos. In that situation, the absolutely right thing to do was to attempt a pass to Stevanovic before he got tangled up by the defender.

Either way, it was a fuck-up. No, we're not going to collectively run him out of town, but let's at least admit what it was.

[trane]

As for Maicon. Players choices can always be questioned. My issue with the play is that Maicon did what most CF would do, try for the goal, that is the natural thing in that position, if you have half a chance you shot. My issue with the play is that he is an ACM and he does not have the vision to play that position, I do not blame him, he is not an ACM he is a CF, and it showed.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yeah i suspect hes only there temporarily (dont think we will see the replacement for a bit tho)

[2mil4dero+santo]

well, you're not disagreeing with me on what goal scorers need to do ... i will only comment that santos made the right decision for himself to put the ball in the net, as you said, but that isn't the same right decision for the team to put the ball in the net .. stev had the better chance, cause an open net is always a better chance


and for anybody who suggests this is scapegoating or the first effort to run maicon outta town, give it a rest ... it's just talk, for me that play was a no-brainer, easy square pass and stev hits an open net, no problem, some people may be hating on maicon, i'm not, i'm talking about a mistake ... those of you sitting in the south stands may not have seen what it really looked like, so maybe you don't understand how so many people can be so upset about the lost chance ... no hate here for santos, don't want to see him run outta town, but don't ever wanna see that ugliness again either

i haven't been here that long, but man oh man there are some jaded cynics here making huge leaping generalizations about 'everybody else' or the 'bandwagon' or 'toronto fans' ... wow, check yourselves next time you feel the need to post your ad hominem

lobo out.

well pretty much every expert I've heard on the game and every coach I've ever had has said the same thing - if you have a sight of goal, take the shot. If you add another pass into the equation there's another chance for error - ie you have to succesfully complete a pass and a shot on goal, where as if you just shoot, you only have to successfully complete a shot on goal - there's less room for mistakes.
Maicon was in front of goal, Stevanovich was in no better position. You have to remember, by the time the pass gets to Stevanovich there will be cover and he was wider that Santos. Imo Santos made the right decision and he only had a split second to make it.