TFC Cracks Down On Scalpers

[bgnewf]

TFC Cracks Down On Scalpers

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/03/tfc-cracks-down-on-scalpers/

Thoughts on reports surfacing that there is a renewed crackdown by TFC on scalpers reselling their tickets.

[Parkdale]

you know what's cracking down on scalpers?


the demand for tickets.





why would ANYONE ever pay a scalper when there's seats at face value at the box office?

I saw the same scalpers out before the game on Sat that I always do.

[Parkdale]

good article newf. Certainly there's more to the meat of the story than just the headline (which was all I read when I posted my first comment)

[bgnewf]

good article newf. Certainly there's more to the meat of the story than just the headline (which was all I read when I posted my first comment)

Thanks Parkie!

[Pookie]

The skeptic in me says that they are cracking down because the tickets are being offered below face. Of course, that impacts their ability to sell their current inventory and devalues their cost structure.

It is clearly not a MLSE corporate vision to rid the world of scalpers at their events. There are no such crackdowns at Leaf games or on the internet.

Dare I say that they will enforce the law when it is convenient to their bottom line?

[Parkdale]

It is clearly not a MLSE corporate vision to rid the world of scalpers at their events. There are no such crackdowns at Leaf games or on the internet.


The ACC doesn't have the same issue with 'private property' that Exhibition Place does.

IF the board of directors at Exhibition Place wanted to do something about scalpers, they could set the wheels in motion with or without MLSE.

it's their property, and they can ask the police to enforce the laws on their property.

[Pookie]

^ not sure I follow where your point is trying to lead me

[pekduck]

The skeptic in me says that they are cracking down because the tickets are being offered below face. Of course, that impacts their ability to sell their current inventory and devalues their cost structure.

It is clearly not a MLSE corporate vision to rid the world of scalpers at their events. There are no such crackdowns at Leaf games or on the internet.

Dare I say that they will enforce the law when it is convenient to their bottom line?

who doesn't do it?

[Suds]

The skeptic in me says that they are cracking down because the tickets are being offered below face. Of course, that impacts their ability to sell their current inventory and devalues their cost structure.

It is clearly not a MLSE corporate vision to rid the world of scalpers at their events. There are no such crackdowns at Leaf games or on the internet.

Dare I say that they will enforce the law when it is convenient to their bottom line?

Interesting point.

There are many tickets starting to surface for below face value. Will this have the opposite effect of deflating the perceived value of TFC tickets in the market?

If so, well then MLSE have no one to blame but themselves. Poor business practices always tend to bite you in the ass in the long term.

[dupont]

It really does seem like they are doing it because it's convenient for them at the moment... however I hate scalpers so I love this development anyways.

[Oldtimer]

The skeptic in me says that they are cracking down because the tickets are being offered below face. Of course, that impacts their ability to sell their current inventory and devalues their cost structure.

It is clearly not a MLSE corporate vision to rid the world of scalpers at their events. There are no such crackdowns at Leaf games or on the internet.

Dare I say that they will enforce the law when it is convenient to their bottom line?

I can certainly see where you're coming from when ML$E did very little on scalpers when they were selling tickets for $100+ per south end seat.

[ginkster88]

You should have seen the mood of the scalpers on Saturday. I got there about 10 mins after kickoff and most still had a ton to unload and were just giving up. I heard "Fuck this" more than a few times. :D

[Pookie]

^ poor practices and price setting.

My understanding of the scalping law is that police will only act when there is a complaint on behalf of the promoter. Cracking down at TFC and not at Leaf games speaks to a different set of circumstances. IMO, one event is virtually sold out whereas the other is suffering from availability.

Parkdale highlights the property issue but clearly if scalping Leaf tickets was a problem that concerned MLSE, websites would be shut down and tickets would be revoked from season ticket holders. They aren't because in that case, scalping is good for business. Holding a Leaf season ticket (and paying a Personal Seat License fee) can be profitable for the holder.

In this case, scalping is bad for business as they have unsold inventory. Excess inventory below cost hurts their ability to sell that inventory and could erode their price points (which needs to happen anyways) for 2012.

My guess is that they are putting energy into reducing the access people have to scalped tickets so that they can direct them to their unsold inventories and try to maintain their price in the marketplace.

[Parkdale]

^ not sure I follow where your point is trying to lead me

sorry, my point was that it might not be an MLSE initiative to reduce scalpers at BMO
(just like they don't seem to do anything about the ones at the ACC either)

if the police were cracking down, it might have been the Exhibition people who wanted it stopped.

[DangerRed]

Hahahaha. There are tickets, as newf's article points out, still available with three days to match day. So where should the ownership spend its efforts? By cracking down on scalpers, of course. Amazing logic.

[DangerRed]

The skeptic in me says that they are cracking down because the tickets are being offered below face. Of course, that impacts their ability to sell their current inventory and devalues their cost structure.

That would make sense. However, the piece of legislation quoted in bignewf's story states clearly it's only an offence if you're offering tickets ABOVE face value.

[Oldtimer]

I saw an ad today. TFC is now selling 5 match flex-packs for the North End seating.

[DangerRed]

^Ouch. Flex pack = weak attendance.

[SuperTCP]

If MLSE sold all there tickets (like in past years) then they would not care about the scalpers.

There are pissed now because
A. Many scalpers did not renew all of there seats (since demand has decreased)
B. Many scalpers are probably selling below face value, still turning a small profit, but since this would cause a consumer to purchase already sold ticket from a scalper rather then purchase additonal that the club is sitting on.

It helps the club if people buy from the FO instead of a scalper.

I don't mind that they are cracking down, but when demand increases once again and tickets are sold out, they should continue their crackdown on scalpers.

[Parkdale]

scalpers have ALWAYS made most of their cash from a handfull of games and taken a loss on the rest.

TFC hosts LA Galaxy (first year with Beckham)
TFC hosts Real Madrid (with C.Ronaldo)

^ those two games probably covered the ENTIRE seasons ticket pack for scalpers.
The rest of the games were just gravy. You'll notice that the MLS Cup final was NOT
a sell out, and there's no friendly announced yet this year.

So now the scalpers are for the actually selling the regular season games, and not just cash in on the BIG games.

and it's looking like it's not worth it to them.

[Pachuco]

Personally, I saw scalpers at BMO as I always do so I'm not sure there is even validity to your story in the first place.

Now let's say there is some kind of crack down going on. You go on to assume MLSE is the one cracking down but it's pure speculation on your part. I don't mean to be rude but this article was one big speculation on all accounts.

I'd just like to see alot more links or proof that a crackdown is happening, or else all I have to go on is what I saw. And I know I was offered tickets all the way up to BMO as usual on this day. I even told one couple (talking to a scalper) that there were tickets for sale at the gate.

[Pookie]

That would make sense. However, the piece of legislation quoted in bignewf's story states clearly it's only an offence if you're offering tickets ABOVE face value.

True and I'd be really interested to see who and how many were actually charged/ticketed. It may be that the purpose of the police presence was to "hassle" them and make it uncomfortable for them to be there.

With so many game day tickets available, I find it hard to believe they were offering tickets above face.

[ginkster88]

There is no crackdown. I saw as many scalpers as usual and it's not uncommon to see scalpers standing 20 feet away from uniformed officers at sporting events.

You've got to be a serious conspiracy theorist to think that MLSE has the Toronto Police at their beck and call.

[Parkdale]

You've got to be a serious conspiracy theorist to think that MLSE has the Toronto Police at their beck and call.


the LCBO, The Indy, The Santa Clause Parade and every movie shooting in the city pay for paid-duty officers.....

MLSE / Exhibition Place probably has to have PDO's hired for every game day.

(which doesn't mean you 'own them' and they will answer to you, but it means they are maintaining law and order at your event)

[Technorgasm]

The Norb digs Scalpers.

Parasites. . . but parasites that . . at times, can provide a valuable service.

[MarkoftheDrink]

The skeptic in me says that they are cracking down because the tickets are being offered below face. Of course, that impacts their ability to sell their current inventory and devalues their cost structure.

It is clearly not a MLSE corporate vision to rid the world of scalpers at their events. There are no such crackdowns at Leaf games or on the internet.

Dare I say that they will enforce the law when it is convenient to their bottom line?

That's not scalping and therefore legal. If the scalpers were smart and wanted to cut loses they should stand right next to the box office and sell their seats at a bit below face value. But I suspect they are, by nature, a greedy sort and will ask for over face value as a starting position, which is scalping.


From the article:
Police Officers were often within hearing distance of the scalpers yet next to nothing was being done to crack down on the illegal activity going on in front of their eyes and ears.

Someone should record this with their phone and post it on youtube. That might get some backs up in the media/city hall (I'm sure Ford could run with that) and then maybe we'll see some real progress on this. Drink a beer in public and the world is ending but scalping? Nah that's fine. Who do they serve and protect the people or MLSE?

[MarkoftheDrink]

BTW has anyone gone up to these cops and said anything about the scalping? If so what was the response?

[Pookie]

That's not scalping and therefore legal. If the scalpers were smart and wanted to cut loses they should stand right next to the box office and sell their seats at a bit below face value. But I suspect they are, by nature, a greedy sort and will ask for over face value as a starting position, which is scalping.

Agreed. Which is why I suspect it was more of a "hassling" than a crackdown.

If you are a scalper losing money and getting hassled, you probably can find better venues to ply your trade. Make it uncomfortable, they leave and then the public doesn't have the access to the "below face" ticket. The only option becomes the box office at the prices set by MLSE.

[Parkdale]

putting one cop on youtube won't do anything except embarrass (and piss off ) that one guy. it won't change anything.

from what I've seen, the cops are there as a deterrent. I've only seen them get involved with things a few times, and only AFTER BMO were on the scene.

[Oldtimer]

There is no crackdown. I saw as many scalpers as usual and it's not uncommon to see scalpers standing 20 feet away from uniformed officers at sporting events.


I'd say the number were down by around 1/3 from last year, but that probably has to do with lower demand and therefore less tickets renewed than anything else.

[brad]

The skeptic in me says that they are cracking down because the tickets are being offered below face. Of course, that impacts their ability to sell their current inventory and devalues their cost structure.

It is clearly not a MLSE corporate vision to rid the world of scalpers at their events. There are no such crackdowns at Leaf games or on the internet.

Dare I say that they will enforce the law when it is convenient to their bottom line?

This could also seriously impact season ticket sales next year. If below cost singles are available from scalpers, it could very well be cheaper to ditch your seasons and buy individual games from them.

[Parkdale]

This could also seriously impact season ticket sales next year. If below cost singles are available from scalpers, it could very well be cheaper to ditch your seasons and buy individual games from them.

and this is the LAST thing MLSE wants. personally, I think it would be bad for the team too. Having a sellout stadium has brought some perks our way (like grass being the biggest example). If TFC was playing to 8000 people every game, we'd still be on fieldturf.

[CretanBull]

I ended up with 6 tickets to the home opener and only needed 4, one of the pairs came to me for free so my plan was to pass the free pair along to the first person that I saw talking to a scalper...but no one was talking to the scalpers - I had to go to the box office area near Gate 1 to find someone (in line) who needed tickets - and old guy wearing a Man U hat, after I gave him the tickets I told him that I was a Leeds fan. That's my act of kindness for this year out of the way.

[tfcleeds]

^You're a better man than me, CB. ;)

[canadian_bhoy]

TFC should do 2 things.

1) Enforce laws on scalping tickets (or at least ask the police to do so)
2) Print that paid price on the tickets.

Scalpers pay less than face value and end up making money even though it seems like you're getting a "deal".

In a funny way, I think the paid price would actually help increase season ticket purchases. If I were a casual fan and paid $40 for my seat, only to realize that the dude beside me paid $19, I'd be a lot more inclined to take the full season deal.

[Parkdale]

In a funny way, I think the paid price would actually help increase season ticket purchases. If I were a casual fan and paid $40 for my seat, only to realize that the dude beside me paid $19, I'd be a lot more inclined to take the full season deal.


that would be a funny way to look at it.

I think most people would just feel angry knowing they are paying more than someone else. Like when you buy something and the store has a big sale the next week - you feel like a ninny.

[Brooker]

that would be a funny way to look at it.

I think most people would just feel angry knowing they are paying more than someone else. Like when you buy something and the store has a big sale the next week - you feel like a ninny.

3Y9J-nAaKaM

[CretanBull]

^You're a better man than me, CB. ;)

I was hoping to shock him :D

He was an old guy, in his 60's or even 70's - its hard to not be nice to old people, even if they are Man U fans.

[MarkoftheDrink]

Agreed. Which is why I suspect it was more of a "hassling" than a crackdown.

If you are a scalper losing money and getting hassled, you probably can find better venues to ply your trade. Make it uncomfortable, they leave and then the public doesn't have the access to the "below face" ticket. The only option becomes the box office at the prices set by MLSE.

The thing is the scalpers still have tickets for the rest of the season. They NEED to get rid of them a lot more than MLSE as they have a lot more at stake. So this alleged crackdown may cause scalpers to ditch their season tickets next year (I doubt that since this team is on the accent), but it won't do much to sell box office tickets, as far as I can see.

If you were MLSE, why harass scalpers? Is it really to push box office sales? Is it a circus to show how serious they are about all the complaints? Doubt it. In any event scalpers are MLSE's wet dream and therefore will never be eliminated if they have anything to do with it.


putting one cop on youtube won't do anything except embarrass (and piss off ) that one guy. it won't change anything.

from what I've seen, the cops are there as a deterrent. I've only seen them get involved with things a few times, and only AFTER BMO were on the scene.

So you're suggesting what, doing nothing? Just like putting one sleeping TTC ticket booth operator on youtube will do nothing? You may argue that nothing has really changed since that video but I'd disagree. The publicity that was generated from that video alone put the TTC on notice that the public wasn't cool with the status quo. I believe they just hired their first chief customer service officer.

I think the optics of a officer standing idly by as a crime is committed is so bad that combined with the G20 black eye, Ford wanting to cut police budget, etc. it could do something more than embarrass one officer. And so what if it does, he/she should be embarrassed! I'm paying their salary to enforce the law, not to pick and choose when and which laws.

In general when something isn't right people need to record it, that's the only way for change to happen. It has to start somewhere and if you can post that online so more people see it and get pissed off then it can gather momentum. If it really isn't anything to be bothered by people won't link to the video and it will die. There is too much in society that people see and say "that's wrong but what can I do about it?" and then nothing happens. Documenting it is what people can do about it.

[/rant]

[Alonso]

This could also seriously impact season ticket sales next year. If below cost singles are available from scalpers, it could very well be cheaper to ditch your seasons and buy individual games from them.


BINGO^^^^

The real reason imo, I was just about to post this which I commented on BigNewfs blog:

"That they are doing it is a good thing that they should be applauded for."

I'm all for this, but I will not thank or applaud the 'front office' of TFC or ML$E for this action. Too little too late! When its hitting their pocket book, and it will do so more into the future, then they give a F**K!

When it was driving up demand and letting them charge increasingly inflated prices for their tickets at the fans expense, they turned a blind eye.

IMO the main reason TFC is cracking down, which you alluded to but didn't explicitly state, is that this year a lot of season ticket holders would have seen the ever increasing availability of cheap tickets, and feel the increased difficulty of being able to sell their tickets when unable to attend games. This will result in more people dropping their seasons coming into 2012 as the average fan will begin to buy on a per game basis and probably save money in the long run.

They're only cracking down to avoid further errosion of their Season Ticket Holder base. Such a noble cause isn't it? Where the hell were you (ML$E) 4 years ago when I was paying $80 for $25 dollar seats?

[Workie]

Thanks again. Always an interesting read

[ensco]

At one of the September/October games last year (can't remember which one, but it was already at the point that there were 1000s of empty seats at BMO), I had two tickets come back to me at the last second and I decided to see what happens if I sell them at the game.

My tickets were face $60.00 each (SSH cost around $45.00) and I went up to three different scalpers. It didn't matter what I asked, each one offered the same - $20 for the pair. They were clearly operating as a cabal. The last scalper, I took offence, said I'd stand over by the Go Train and sell them myself, he got pretty menacing and said "I'd think carefully about that if I were you".

I don't remember exactly but I think all 3 scalpers were selling tickets for face (not SSH price).

So, regardless of the legalities, I saw two things - (1) these guys are menacing and use physical threats to stop people from competing as sellers, and (2) no matter how many seats are on the market, the scalpers still compete directly with the box office.

I agree with Pookie. It's fundamentally much more of a business issue for TFC in a down market.

[cmonyoureds]

Due to the overwhelming availabilty of tickets my prediction- next year no more partial packs. All partial pack holders forced into buying season seats, with only a "modest" price increase of course. Wrapped in "moment you've been waiting for" packaging.

I know some partial pack holders who pick up the rest of the season from scalpers, they're really going to notice it's just as cheap if not cheaper. In addition many are the fans that are coming regardless....

[ginkster88]

I think the optics of a officer standing idly by as a crime is committed is so bad that combined with the G20 black eye, Ford wanting to cut police budget, etc. it could do something more than embarrass one officer. And so what if it does, he/she should be embarrassed! I'm paying their salary to enforce the law, not to pick and choose when and which laws.

If the scalpers are indeed selling at or below face, they're not doing anything illegal.

It's entirely possible that there are fewer scalpers around BMO because there are fewer people trying to scalp TFC tickets. These guys aren't idiots, where there is no demand there is no opportunity and their money is better spent on other events.

[Oldtimer]

Due to the overwhelming availabilty of tickets my prediction- next year no more partial packs. All partial pack holders forced into buying season seats, with only a "modest" price increase of course. Wrapped in "moment you've been waiting for" packaging.

I know some partial pack holders who pick up the rest of the season from scalpers, they're really going to notice it's just as cheap if not cheaper. In addition many are the fans that are coming regardless....

I don't think so. If you look at other teams, flex-packs is the way to soak up the remaining tickets.

Nobody is going to shell out big bucks for STs, when they can pick up tickets the day of.

[Pookie]

If the scalpers are indeed selling at or below face, they're not doing anything illegal.



That's not entirely true.

The Ticket Speculation Act does cover the selling of a ticket at a higher price but also someone who "purchases or attempts to purchase tickets with the intention of reselling them at a profit"

So, your web based Kijiji/eBay/Craigslist ad that offers a TFC ticket(s) above face demonstrates that you've purchased a ticket with the intent to resell it for a profit. Whether you get your price remains to be seen but your intention is clear and that is grounds for TFC to file a complaint and have the law enforced.

The net benefit to them in that scenario is that they can remove tickets from those that they know will likely be selling them (below cost) and hurting their market.

(Of course, the NHL team and its partnership with Stubhub would apply here too. But in that case, the intent to sell above cost doesn't hurt the profit at all. It adds to scarcity and they get a percentage of the sale while the seller has assumed the legal risk in offering the ticket above cost in the first place. MLSE isn't going to call the cops on the seller in this case but I digress.)

Municipalities also have by-laws. The City of Toronto's Municipal Code prohibits using or occupying "a street for the purposes of the sale, or offering for sale, of event tickets", regardless of the offering price.

This is likely why bgnewf saw what he saw. The enforcement of a by-law designed to remove access to low cost tickets that were impacting the FO's sale of the original ticket and could have a long term impact on price.

[brad]

IMO the main reason TFC is cracking down, which you alluded to but didn't explicitly state, is that this year a lot of season ticket holders would have seen the ever increasing availability of cheap tickets, and feel the increased difficulty of being able to sell their tickets when unable to attend games. This will result in more people dropping their seasons coming into 2012 as the average fan will begin to buy on a per game basis and probably save money in the long run.

Very good point as well. I know a lot of people, particularly in the more expensive seats only planned to attend some of the games and subsidized the cost of the purchase by selling unneeded tickets. When the market for selling those tickets dried up, the overall cost of carrying the seasons goes up, as does the hassle of trying to move your unneeded tickets that no one wants. This makes the scalper route more appealing to some.

[Section 110]

If MLSE sold all there tickets (like in past years) then they would not care about the scalpers.

There are pissed now because
A. Many scalpers did not renew all of there seats (since demand has decreased)
B. Many scalpers are probably selling below face value, still turning a small profit, but since this would cause a consumer to purchase already sold ticket from a scalper rather then purchase additonal that the club is sitting on.

It helps the club if people buy from the FO instead of a scalper.

I don't mind that they are cracking down, but when demand increases once again and tickets are sold out, they should continue their crackdown on scalpers.


Bingo. On the way to the game all the scalpers are saying "Below box office prices".

FO wouldn't care (as they haven't previously) when things were good. Now they are having their falling profits bitten into by scalpers, hence the crack down. When there are lots of caribou to feed on, the lions will share with the hyenas, but when there's but one carcass, you better believe the lion will chase the hyenas away. Laws of nature, laws of declining ticket sales. Remember though - we're the ones on safari - and control it all.:D

[Roogsy]

I ended up with 6 tickets to the home opener and only needed 4, one of the pairs came to me for free so my plan was to pass the free pair along to the first person that I saw talking to a scalper...but no one was talking to the scalpers - I had to go to the box office area near Gate 1 to find someone (in line) who needed tickets - and old guy wearing a Man U hat, after I gave him the tickets I told him that I was a Leeds fan. That's my act of kindness for this year out of the way.

:lol:

Great story...

[brad]

At one of the September/October games last year (can't remember which one, but it was already at the point that there were 1000s of empty seats at BMO), I had two tickets come back to me at the last second and I decided to see what happens if I sell them at the game.

My tickets were face $60.00 each (SSH cost around $45.00) and I went up to three different scalpers. It didn't matter what I asked, each one offered the same - $20 for the pair. They were clearly operating as a cabal. The last scalper, I took offence, said I'd stand over by the Go Train and sell them myself, he got pretty menacing and said "I'd think carefully about that if I were you".

I don't remember exactly but I think all 3 scalpers were selling tickets for face (not SSH price).

So, regardless of the legalities, I saw two things - (1) these guys are menacing and use physical threats to stop people from competing as sellers, and (2) no matter how many seats are on the market, the scalpers still compete directly with the box office.

I agree with Pookie. It's fundamentally much more of a business issue for TFC in a down market.

They always do this. I've been to plenty of concerts over the years where myself or a friend have had an extra ticket that we've sold, and the scalpers are on you pretty much immediately with their threats.

I actually had a reverse run in with a scalper several years ago (I see him outside BMO all the time btw). I was looking for a concert ticket (at the Opera House - small venue, so not thousands of people around). I tried negotiating with this scalper a couple of times, but he wouldn't budge and I wasn't willing to pay his price. I decided to have some drinks in the bar next door instead. I ended up getting a free ticket from someone at the bar, and on my way in to the venue - the scalper physically blocked me and very angrily demanded to know where I got my ticket from. It wasn't until I threatened to call the police that he backed down.

[Roogsy]

Maybe this year we won't have any games at all sold out and more scalpers drop off the season ticket holder list. That would be a positive outcome if we have a shitty year in the standings.

[Roogsy]

They always do this. I've been to plenty of concerts over the years where myself or a friend have had an extra ticket that we've sold, and the scalpers are on you pretty much immediately with their threats.

I actually had a reverse run in with a scalper several years ago (I see him outside BMO all the time btw). I was looking for a concert ticket (at the Opera House - small venue, so not thousands of people around). I tried negotiating with this scalper a couple of times, but he wouldn't budge and I wasn't willing to pay his price. I decided to have some drinks in the bar next door instead. I ended up getting a free ticket from someone at the bar, and on my way in to the venue - the scalper physically blocked me and very angrily demanded to know where I got my ticket from. It wasn't until I threatened to call the police that he backed down.


I don't think I'd be able to hold my temper in either of those situations.

[brad]

I don't think I'd be able to hold my temper in either of those situations.

I've never backed down on selling tickets when accosted, and have never had a problem. I think it's all intimidation. They are dodgy guys and I'd be careful around them, but I don't think they are dumb enough to actually assault you in front of hundreds of witnesses.

[rocker]

many years ago i once chatted with a scalper for a Raptors game. he has only offering rip off prices and I wasn't dying to attend the game. I just walked away towards a bar. About 2 minutes down the road, he taps me on the shoulder and says "OK" and sells them to me for the price I wanted.

[MarkoftheDrink]

At one of the September/October games last year (can't remember which one, but it was already at the point that there were 1000s of empty seats at BMO), I had two tickets come back to me at the last second and I decided to see what happens if I sell them at the game.

My tickets were face $60.00 each (SSH cost around $45.00) and I went up to three different scalpers. It didn't matter what I asked, each one offered the same - $20 for the pair. They were clearly operating as a cabal. The last scalper, I took offence, said I'd stand over by the Go Train and sell them myself, he got pretty menacing and said "I'd think carefully about that if I were you".

I don't remember exactly but I think all 3 scalpers were selling tickets for face (not SSH price).

So, regardless of the legalities, I saw two things - (1) these guys are menacing and use physical threats to stop people from competing as sellers, and (2) no matter how many seats are on the market, the scalpers still compete directly with the box office.

I agree with Pookie. It's fundamentally much more of a business issue for TFC in a down market.

Anyone know what kind of rates they're selling for these days? You'd think they'd be giving them away in this buyer's market. I might actually be able to afford to go see a game, lol. $20 a pair sounds about right IMO.

[menefreghista]

Maybe this year we won't have any games at all sold out and more scalpers drop off the season ticket holder list. That would be a positive outcome if we have a shitty year in the standings.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Galaxy game was a sell out. Especially if people find out that Beckham might actually play in one of those games for once.

But other than that it is entirely possible that the days of guaranteed sell outs for this team are over. I think they will struggle to sell out even if/when we start winning consistently. Simply because their pricing scheme is still out of wack.

On the issue of scalper crackdown, I will believe it when I see it. To me a crackdown means zero scalpers. I haven't seen that yet.

[Suds]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Galaxy game was a sell out. Especially if people find out that Beckham might actually play in one of those games for once.

But other than that it is entirely possible that the days of guaranteed sell outs for this team are over. I think they will struggle to sell out even if/when we start winning consistently. Simply because their pricing scheme is still out of wack.

On the issue of scalper crackdown, I will believe it when I see it. To me a crackdown means zero scalpers. I haven't seen that yet.

Yep. For the average fan & family it is.

They miscalculated this quite badly with the continual increases.

[menefreghista]

Yep. For the average fan & family it is.

They miscalculated this quite badly with the continual increases.

Even their flex packs are pricey:

http://www.torontofc.ca/flex-packs

Starting at $239 for 5 games.

$200 was a season ticket in the south end in 2007.

[C.Ronaldo]

but is it illegal to sell below face value?

what are they charging these guys with? profit losses?

[Technorgasm]

SCALPERS DOWN on CRACK.

[Pookie]

but is it illegal to sell below face value?

what are they charging these guys with? profit losses?

2 potential charges/fines.

1. If they are asking for $$ above face, they have the "intent" to sell above face value which is illegal. If the end price is less than face, it really doesn't matter if they can establish intent

2. The City by-law which prohibts the street sale of tickets at any price point around a venue.

[Torontotonto]

I saw an ad today. TFC is now selling 5 match flex-packs for the North End seating.

Doesn't suprise me, the north stands looked less than half full last Saturday.

[Mark in Ottawa]

but is it illegal to sell below face value?

what are they charging these guys with? profit losses?
Ontario Ticket Speculation Act
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90t07_e.htm

It is against the law to sell or to buy "scalped" tickets.

[james]

sometimes i just dont get scalpers......like why are there always scalpers at blue Jays games when there is usually about 20,000 unsold tickets at the box office on just about any given game?

makes no sense to me.

[james]

Even their flex packs are pricey:

http://www.torontofc.ca/flex-packs

Starting at $239 for 5 games.

$200 was a season ticket in the south end in 2007.

its crazy how quickly tickets got over priced and the people in charge of MLSE just got big headed and thinking fans will pay anything, and funny they still are trying to sell tickets at over prices.

They need to have a steep decline in ticket prices if they want to sell out games next year!