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View Full Version : Post Game Woohaaha: Toronto FC vs Portland Timbers- Mar.26, 2011



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[NBF]
03-26-2011, 03:00 PM
WINNING!

2-0 TFC is not a bad score:)

Definitely not a bad game, but definitely not dominant game by TFC. It was twice as good as the last game vs the Whitecaps and maybe should have scored a few more goals.

Portland are definitely a lot worse than the Whitecaps so this game should of been won by a bigger margin. Stevanovic made his debut and Yourassowsky was given a red card for taking his sweet fucking time getting off the field for the substitution. Its questionable call. I'd almost compare this to the Van Persie incident in the Champions League where Van Persie kept running with the ball and shot on goal after the whistle had blown for the offside.

I wonder if TFC can get the red card overturn so Yourassowsky can play in the next game.

Player Ratings:

Frei- 7

Gargan- 5
Harden- 6
Cann- 7, Held off Cooper all game. Bravo.
Yourassowsky- 4, for getting the red card(7-before the red card)

DeRosario- 7
Sturgis- 5
Peterson- 6

Martina- 9, scored two goals in his second game for the club.
Gordon- 6
Santos- 7

Stavanovic- 6
Zavarise- 5
Morgan- 5

Formation: 4-3-3

1st Half:

---------------------Frei------------------------
Gargan-----Harden---------Cann---Yourassowsky
-----------Peterson-------Sturgis---------------
-------------------DeRosario--------------------
Martina-----------------------------------Santos
--------------------Gordon----------------------

2nd Half:

---------------------Frei------------------------
Gargan-----Harden---------Cann---Yourassowsky
-------Peterson---Zavarise-----DeRosario--------
Martina-------------------------------Stavanovic
--------------------Gordon----------------------

After the red card:(84th minute)

---------------------Frei------------------------
Gargan-----Harden---------Cann----------Morgan
-------Peterson---Zavarise---Stavanovic---------
-----------Gordon----------DeRosario------------

Next Game: Lets hope that Yourassowsky's red card can be recinded or Attakora returns from Injury. Otherwise it will be a long fucking game.



Have at it!!!:scarf:

SilverSamurai
03-26-2011, 03:01 PM
WTF was that red card?!

ArmenJBX
03-26-2011, 03:01 PM
A fantastic result, Javier Martina looks amazing, and the team kicked some ass while playing attractive, beautiful football.

Referee, you're a wanker and I can't believe you can put that shirt on and call yourself a professional.

I know we'll have our bad days, but these are the days that simply rock! Good job boys! :D

Batman
03-26-2011, 03:02 PM
hopefully things settle down a bit.

Pretty good game, I'd say not great, but pretty good.

Rocco
03-26-2011, 03:03 PM
first time in my life i see a red card for time wasting. I know it was a second yellow but the ref could have dealt with it differently

LucaGol
03-26-2011, 03:04 PM
Frustrating first half despite taking the lead. Saw plenty of positives in the second half. Was actually very entertaining to watch. Weird.

Would like to see this going forward.

xxxx ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- xxxxx ------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS

Davenport
03-26-2011, 03:06 PM
Frustrating first half despite taking the lead. Saw plenty of positives in the second half. Was actually very entertaining to watch. Weird.

Would like to see this going forward.

xxxx ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- xxxxx ------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS

That's more of a team than we've ever had.
Gargan has to be dropped for ever.
He's goddawful.

TFCREDNWHITE
03-26-2011, 03:07 PM
Frustrating first half despite taking the lead. Saw plenty of positives in the second half. Was actually very entertaining to watch. Weird.

Would like to see this going forward.

xxxx ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- xxxxx ------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS

Agreed...

Davenport
03-26-2011, 03:08 PM
first time in my life i see a red card for time wasting. I know it was a second yellow but the ref could have dealt with it differently
How do you know it was time wasting ?
You'll probably find he told the ref to F off.
He wasn't happy about the challenge when he was going down the left.
It was a good tackle..nothing wrong with it.

TFCRegina
03-26-2011, 03:08 PM
Team looked way better this week. Gargan is still pretty weak. Zavarise played well in his time.

Very happy with the performance, but the D still needs improvement.

And Martina...that 2nd goal was world class. If we don't vote that as goal of the week, I'll be choked.

TFCREDNWHITE
03-26-2011, 03:09 PM
Martina is GOD right now!

Stevanovic has some skill too!

DeRo had a great game also

justin
03-26-2011, 03:09 PM
first half in my opinion was poor, yes we had a lead at half but portland looked much better than us. that continued into the second half really until martina's second goal, which made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, and then portland fell back.

my comments, martina obviously was great today, maicon started well winning lots of balls and making good passes, but his passing went errant before he was subbed. gordon looks good at holding up the ball and not much else, quiet game from dero, yourass impressed me even though he got sent off, stevanovic looks very good, cann was much better today and got the better of cooper, harden and gargan make me very very nervous, sturgis and peterson imo were totally invisible and should hold down spots on the bench with zavarise and stevanovic taking their places.

good win, albeit not convincing until the 2nd half of the 2nd half for me.

LucaGol
03-26-2011, 03:10 PM
That's more of a team than we've ever had.
Gargan has to be dropped for ever.
He's goddawful.

We need a Yourassowsky clone on the right side.

Super impressed with that player in spite of the probably undeserved sending off.

Great off the ball movement, makes intelligent runs, is an intense player, crossing seems ok and seems like he has a decent shot.

Redcoe15
03-26-2011, 03:12 PM
Better second half from TFC. More agressive with the ball. And that second goal from Martina was a thing of beauty. From Frei across the field and one touch into the back of the net. A candidate for goal of the week, IMO. Martina's gonna be a thing of beauty for our side.

And the ref's a fucking douchebag for giving Yourassowski a red card for walking off the field. Guess they're in mid-seson form. :prrr:

Flipityflu
03-26-2011, 03:13 PM
good result. there is some skill on this team.

The Oz
03-26-2011, 03:14 PM
We need a Yourassowsky clone on the right side.

Super impressed with that player in spite of the probably undeserved sending off.

Great off the ball movement, makes intelligent runs, is an intense player, crossing seems ok and seems like he has a decent shot.

For one, I agree 100% with yoru roster up there, but did you see his shot later on in the game? It was a rocket but right at the keeper.

In any case, great game, one of the few times I can say TFC were a great entertaining side.

Dkolish3
03-26-2011, 03:15 PM
Personally I thought we created 3-5 chances the entire game, and generally let Portland dictate the game. I thought we easily could have lost if Portland was more creative and clinical in the final third.

Gazza
03-26-2011, 03:15 PM
Frustrating first half despite taking the lead. Saw plenty of positives in the second half. Was actually very entertaining to watch. Weird.

Would like to see this going forward.

xxxx ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- xxxxx ------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS


I think we should just play 2 men down;) at least until we sign capable players.

nickio
03-26-2011, 03:16 PM
Stevanovic had 4 or 5 giveaways. BUT he had a few great passes, definite skill on the ball. It's totally normal for someone who JUST joined the team, I am very happy with his addition. Players will pass the ball more to him in the future as well.

Otherwise, I felt very entertained by the game and the Team won! They're still in the beginning of where they want to be, so what's not to be excited about?!

TFCRegina
03-26-2011, 03:17 PM
Martina is GOD right now!

Stevanovic has some skill too!

DeRo had a great game also

De Rosario better not be traded. Key linchpin in the attack today. We need him out there.

Batman
03-26-2011, 03:20 PM
fyi...for anyone interested.. the vancouver - philly game is now on sporstnet

I'm not certain who to cheer for though. I guess it would be best that the points go west... but I'm not sure I can get myself to cheer for Vanc.

LesH
03-26-2011, 03:21 PM
Personally I thought we created 3-5 chances the entire game, and generally let Portland dictate the game. I thought we easily could have lost if Portland was more creative and clinical in the final third.

Same opinion here, Portland dominated 75% of the game.

It was just an OK performance overall by TFC, nothing more, we won because some good individual skill at the right time. Too few chances created in 90 minutes.
We don't need to forget who we played today!

TFC07
03-26-2011, 03:22 PM
- Good game, but let's not get ahead ourselves here. TFC were playing against a very weak team.

- TFC needs to find RB ASAP! Gargan should be benched (or better yet waived).

- I can't wait when JDG comes back soon. He is going make our midfield so much better.

[NBF]
03-26-2011, 03:26 PM
Frustrating first half despite taking the lead. Saw plenty of positives in the second half. Was actually very entertaining to watch. Weird.

Would like to see this going forward.

xxxx ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- xxxxx ------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS

We're still waiting on Bouchiba and unfortunately we're stuck with Gargan at right back, unless you want to play Harden at centreback every game and put Attakora at right back:).

Gargan ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- Bouchiba------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS

Laurignano
03-26-2011, 03:27 PM
Gargan would be okay on the bench..ideally I'd like to see us get another RB...but we cant just sign someone for the fact of signing them. I'm curious what the rules are for how many loanded players MLS teams can have... if we could get another played loaned to us that would be ideal for a quick fix for the RB position...if not we are going to have to be patient to scout to find a suitable RB for our system.

TFCRegina
03-26-2011, 03:29 PM
;1256933']We're still waiting on Bouchiba and unfortunately we're stuck with Gargan at right back, unless you want to play Harden at centreback every game and put Attakora at right back:).

Gargan ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- Bouchiba------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS

Attakora has made a fantastic centreback who can get forward and back in time in this system (he needed Cann in Vancouver though). He would be a decent RB, and Canada needs players at the RB position (just like TFC). Totally Ok with him playing RB.

Gazza
03-26-2011, 03:30 PM
;1256933']We're still waiting on Bouchiba and unfortunately we're stuck with Gargan at right back, unless you want to play Harden at centreback every game and put Attakora at right back:).

Gargan ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- Bouchiba------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS

What about omphroy or even ashton morgan at right back?

JuliquE
03-26-2011, 03:32 PM
Good job, from the boys.

Van Persie heard that whistle, btw; he didn't take the chance on as if he was serious about scoring -- look at it again.

Lennon
03-26-2011, 03:33 PM
fyi...for anyone interested.. the vancouver - philly game is now on sporstnet

I'm not certain who to cheer for though. I guess it would be best that the points go west... but I'm not sure I can get myself to cheer for Vanc.

It is? I don't see it on any of the sportsnet channels ..

Nerepis
03-26-2011, 03:33 PM
Win, Lose or Draw, that was way more fun to watch then Preki Ball.

Martina's second goal, world class pass, world class finish!

[NBF]
03-26-2011, 03:37 PM
What about omphroy or even ashton morgan at right back?

I'm not impressed with Ashton Morgan at left back, he needs to get some speed in him, but it all takes time, I would not plug him in automatically. He still needs to work on playing one vs one. So not a fucking option at right back.

Omphroy, I dont know never seen him but if he's not starting over Gargan now, I dont know if I would want him starting at all.

I think its worth pointing that this season we dont have that many players that are defensive midfielders. So I guess at some point we might see Morgan starting a game or Omphroy. I'm just hoping we don't see Attakora or Frei out injured for a significant amount of time.

Gazza
03-26-2011, 03:40 PM
I don't know much about either player than what i've read. But it's obvious to everyone that there is a glaring weakness at right back.

I might have to dust off the old pumas. And cut down on my drinking.

Batman
03-26-2011, 03:40 PM
It is? I don't see it on any of the sportsnet channels ..

Sportsnet One

Lizzy
03-26-2011, 03:41 PM
It is? I don't see it on any of the sportsnet channels ..

Sportsnet One

LittleOzzy
03-26-2011, 03:43 PM
Is there a thread on this forum where we can talk about the other games going on around the league?

With Vancouver games available and TSN's large schedule of games it would be nice to have a place to discuss other MLS games.

Lennon
03-26-2011, 03:46 PM
Sportsnet One


Sportsnet One

Awesome, thanks !

2mil4dero+santo
03-26-2011, 03:54 PM
How do you know it was time wasting ?
You'll probably find he told the ref to F off.
He wasn't happy about the challenge when he was going down the left.
It was a good tackle..nothing wrong with it.

Thats how I saw it, he appeared to be beaking off to the ref the whole way off the field. Stupid mistake, I hope Winter chews his head off for that. I can't stand it when so called "professionals" do stupid things like that.
All in all, a good improvement over the first game, you can see what Winter is trying to do with the team, but holy shit does he have an uphill battle with some of our players (peterson, gargan etc..) who just REFUSE to make simple, crisp passes and instead opt for hospital balls or panicked preki-ball.
If we had played LA today, they would have scored at least 5 goals on us...

swan
03-26-2011, 03:56 PM
:prrr:
Good job, from the boys.

Van Persie heard that whistle, btw; he didn't take the chance on as if he was serious about scoring -- look at it again.

Batman
03-26-2011, 03:59 PM
Is there a thread on this forum where we can talk about the other games going on around the league?

With Vancouver games available and TSN's large schedule of games it would be nice to have a place to discuss other MLS games.

I've put one in the Canadian Soccer area for now,

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1256955#post1256955

I don't know how busy it will be but I'll make it.

polak9pete
03-26-2011, 04:00 PM
the yourassowsky red card was total bull .unless he actually said somethign there's no way that should have been a second card..the ref was makin mistakes all game so hopefully if tfc challenge the card they can get it reversed

Alixir
03-26-2011, 04:04 PM
http://www.justin.tv/dysreflex#/w/1009436848/2 for the Vancouver vs onion game...right now its revs vs DC during the vancouver halftime.

GuelphStorm2007
03-26-2011, 04:04 PM
A decent result still a lot of work needs to be done but I do see progress, My only complaint was the many give aways during the first half. but I think they will get better.

2mil4dero+santo
03-26-2011, 04:07 PM
the yourassowsky red card was total bull .unless he actually said somethign there's no way that should have been a second card..the ref was makin mistakes all game so hopefully if tfc challenge the card they can get it reversed

I agree the ref made some terrible calls, but imo that second yellow was not one of them. you could see the dialogue between the ref and yourssosky for some time, there's no excuse for taking stupid cards like that because of an inability to control your emotions. I would bet my mortgage yourassowsky told him to f-off, and he let the team down and will get a suspension, well I hope it was worth it maybe next time he'll use his brain.

boban
03-26-2011, 04:07 PM
I've put one in the Canadian Soccer area for now,

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=1256955#post1256955

I don't know how busy it will be but I'll make it.
Thing is its not really Canadian soccer. its more MLS, and thats what the poster was alluding to.

boban
03-26-2011, 04:09 PM
No way in hell there were just over 20,000 people.
My tickets went unused. I bet they counted that in the total.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter-recap/martinas-brace-leads-toronto-first-win-11

2mil4dero+santo
03-26-2011, 04:12 PM
No way in hell there were just over 20,000 people.
My tickets went unused. I bet they counted that in the total.

http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter-recap/martinas-brace-leads-toronto-first-win-11

I don't see your point? if you bought tickets why wouldn't they count them as sold??

Batman
03-26-2011, 04:14 PM
Thing is its not really Canadian soccer. its more MLS, and thats what the poster was alluding to.

Ya... We dont have OTHER MLS but that thread heading lists Vancouver specifically (although admittedly probably a legacy). So it can do for now.

boban
03-26-2011, 04:16 PM
I don't see your point? if you bought tickets why wouldn't they count them as sold??
because it's attendance. I didn't attend so don't count it.

LittleOzzy
03-26-2011, 04:19 PM
Ya... We dont have OTHER MLS but that thread heading lists Vancouver specifically (although admittedly probably a legacy). So it can do for now.

Should we not have a place for all other MLS games though? We should be supporting the league TFC plays in.

What about just one thread in the MLS News Section with the schedule where all "other" games can be discussed each week?

Something like "MLS Week 2 Games Discussion"

Batman
03-26-2011, 04:21 PM
Should we not have a place for all other MLS games though? We should be supporting the league TFC plays in.

What about just one thread in the MLS News Section with the schedule where all "other" games can be discussed each week?

Something like "MLS Week 2 Games Discussion"

Yes. I agree that this would be good going forward.

kaos197O
03-26-2011, 04:22 PM
Good game today. Saw some promising football again. Really good to see a lot of the clan again. Lintberg, you were really bringing it today :flare: Klinsmann just left. Not to talkative. Mariner really seems happy to be here but said "there's a LOT of work to be done" but was generally happy with today's outcome.

Stevanovich looked great at getting into space but our guys weren't picking him out. Time.

Way to go boys! :scarf:

dupont
03-26-2011, 04:24 PM
It was nice to get the win although we have to remember that Portland is an extremely weak side.
I think it's very positive to see a nice finish like that second goal. You can win entire games based on just one good finish sometimes. He may be a great asset for us this season.

Alixir
03-26-2011, 04:29 PM
MLSE always counts the number of tickets sold as the home attendence regardless wether that many show up. they do it for the Leafs aswell.

arbogast
03-26-2011, 04:30 PM
I was please with Alan Gordon's performance.
He did axactly what a Cf should do: be a physical presence, hold up the ball and distribute to attackers. Anyone else think he was a solid pickup?

billyfly
03-26-2011, 04:31 PM
Man, it was cold.

ensco
03-26-2011, 04:38 PM
Just back. Surprised at the number of fannies actually there today. Was probably 16,000-17,000, which, given the weather, is pretty good. It was tolerable in the sun, but absolutely brutal in the shade (which most of the west side was in, most of the game).

Martina, wow, he is clinical. We have never, ever, had that. Two chances, two goals. That second goal, was that the best goal in TFC history? It's in the conversation for sure.

Thought Dero might have taken a knock or stretched a hamstring in the first half - he wasn't the same the rest of the way. Liked what Gordon brings - he's a good mucker. Bit of a poor man's Dichio (he doesn't have the same skill on the ball, but is a handful). Good to see Cann and Harden rebound.

But...

Sturgis - completely lost out there - both Frei and de Klerk screaming at him, several times, before the mercy sub at halftime. Peterson, even though he's not a natural DM, had a couple of nice tackles and is clearly winning the battle of who gets to stay in once JDG returns. Gargan also was terrible again.

No idea what was going on with Stevanovic. He probably shouldn't have been thrown out there. He was subbed for Sturgis but seemed to think he was going in at wing (in Dero's spot), then was standing beside Santos for 5 minutes. He never got settled positionally out there, even after Zavarise came in for Santos and he moved forward. His fitness isn't there and he seemed a little lost/disinterested, to me. 12 months ago, he's playing for Mourinho, that's pretty heady wine, this is a long way from that, I hope he's interested in working hard here.

Portland had tons of quality possession, and oodles of quality chances (they must have had 10 corners). We're lucky they didn't do better.

The win feels good, Martina was a revelation, but I still think we're in trouble, especially at DM and in the back 4, once we start playing better teams.

swan
03-26-2011, 04:40 PM
Good game today. Saw some promising football again. Really good to see a lot of the clan again. Lintberg, you were really bringing it today :flare: Klinsmann just left. Not to talkative. Mariner really seems happy to be here but said "there's a LOT of work to be done" but was generally happy with today's outcome.

Stevanovich looked great at getting into space but our guys weren't picking him out. Time.

Way to go boys! :scarf:

saw this look like he was getting a little frustrated but thats good he is hungry for the ball and not just here to pass time...

Keegan
03-26-2011, 04:40 PM
Yourassowsky is quickly turning into a liability both reds we've seen him take have been ridiculous.. completely selfish today that really pissed me off especially since we are thin at left back as it is

69Chevy396
03-26-2011, 04:41 PM
I agree the ref made some terrible calls, but imo that second yellow was not one of them. you could see the dialogue between the ref and yourssosky for some time, there's no excuse for taking stupid cards like that because of an inability to control your emotions. I would bet my mortgage yourassowsky told him to f-off, and he let the team down and will get a suspension, well I hope it was worth it maybe next time he'll use his brain.

Just got home from the game. TFC played better after the red card, first time all game they controlled possession the way the new coach wants them to play....Gargan was horrible again, everybody else played well enough to win. Martina's second goal will be MLS goal of the month.

SoccMan
03-26-2011, 04:50 PM
It terms of attendance, I think there was around close to 19,000 there. To say there was only 16,000 there would mean there was about 6500 empty seats, rememember capacity is around 22500.

boban
03-26-2011, 04:52 PM
It terms of attendance, I think there was around close to 19,000 there. To say there was only 16,000 there would mean there was about 6500 empty seats, rememember capacity is around 22500.
It's 21,800. Having 5,500 empty seats is like being 75% full.

JuliquE
03-26-2011, 04:54 PM
:prrr:

:o :D

rocker
03-26-2011, 04:59 PM
I actually was quite impressed with Alan Gordon. I always saw him as a big dumb bruiser before. But he has a great sense of things, is a decent passer, and played well in the system considering he just joined the team... works hard.

Much more useful to this team than Labrocca (Sturgis does about what Labrocca did).

Gargan was weak today. Never really knew where he should be... was always running around like a chicken with his head cut off. Serviceable player, I guess, but nothing more.

Cann came back strong this game, in his natural position. Harden was scary at times... lots of dumb mistakes. He's a space filler. Yourass looked good, better than in spring training.

De Ro's pass to Martina was great, and he had some good spots, but he also fucked up a great deal, including failing to make about 3-4 easy passes.

Blowing Bubbles
03-26-2011, 04:59 PM
Was a bit cold and windy but not terrible.

I thought we gave a way a tonne of half-chances in the first half but fortunately there's very little quality in the Portland side. Second half we were much tighter. We didn't create many chances but whatever, finishing is what it's all about. We had maybe 2 great and 2 half chances all match, but Javier Martina buried 1 of each. The second goal was awesome.

Gargan is a big liability.

Hopefully we can get another 3 pts next weekend vs Chivas. It kinda sucks that we're loaded up on home games so early in the year while we're still working out the kinks in our roster/style of play. Need to get results at home!

I would guesstimate there were about 19,000 ppl there, it was a good crowd. North stand and the Northwest corner of the 200's were a wasteland of empty seats .... north stand should be a supporters section but of course $ talks.

ensco
03-26-2011, 05:00 PM
Whatever the actual attendance was, given the chaotic end of season, chaotic offseason, and the cold weather, it was pretty good.

Oldtimer
03-26-2011, 05:01 PM
You could really see a weakness in the centre... and the team playing out wide and ignoring the centre, which made the attacking rather one-dimensional.
The defense is still horrible, and this keeps the team from really pushing forward. No real change from Charleston there. A better team than Portland would have torn apart TFC by the mistakes that TFC made.

Looking forward to seeing what happens when JDG takes to the field. It could make a huge difference, with this system.

It's going to be a long, tough rebuilding year, but at least we can celebrate an early win. TFC needs some better players, period, and hopefully Winter & Co. can continue to bring them in.

BTW, that first goal was fantastic!, and the second world class!

iansmcl
03-26-2011, 05:02 PM
;1256892']WINNING!

Player Ratings:

Frei- 7

Gargan- 5
Harden- 6
Cann- 7, Held off Cooper all game. Bravo.
Yourassowsky- 4, for getting the red card(7-before the red card)



Not to nitpick... but any time I saw Cooper he was being marked by Harden. That may have changed in the second half (they were on the other side of the pitch, a little harder for me to see).

Harden looked alright doing that job, though Cann seemed to be around clearing the ball Can anyone weigh-in on this, one way or another?

2mil4dero+santo
03-26-2011, 05:02 PM
Yourassowsky is quickly turning into a liability both reds we've seen him take have been ridiculous.. completely selfish today that really pissed me off especially since we are thin at left back as it is

AGREE 100%

iansmcl
03-26-2011, 05:05 PM
I was please with Alan Gordon's performance.
He did axactly what a Cf should do: be a physical presence, hold up the ball and distribute to attackers. Anyone else think he was a solid pickup?

He looked pretty good, some nice passes. He seemed to miss every header that came his way though... which is a problem for a big forward, I think.

Mark TFC
03-26-2011, 05:12 PM
TFC! Great result to kick off at home with.

ManUtd4ever
03-26-2011, 05:13 PM
Just got back from the match. It was about 90% full at BMO Field today once all the fannies were actually in their seats. Not bad considering the frigid weather, and the atmosphere was still rocking around my neck of the woods, as always.

TFC was more fluid today than last week, but suffered a few too many defensive lapses that would have likely cost them against stonger opposition.

Fortunately, it appears that there are a few gamebreakers on this roster that can make a difference in games when the team is not firing on all cylinders. DeRo, Santos, and Martina are all deadly within close range, and Zavarise and Stevanovic are proving to be creative playmakers on the attack.

The backline should be competent when Attakora is healthy, provided someone can step in at RB. Gargan is out of his element in Winter's system and should be relegated to the bench.

Overall, a good result against a weak opponent with plenty of room for improvement.

eagles8
03-26-2011, 05:17 PM
MeWho?

torontocelt
03-26-2011, 05:19 PM
You could really see a weakness in the centre... and the team playing out wide and ignoring the centre, which made the attacking rather one-dimensional.
The defense is still horrible, and this keeps the team from really pushing forward. No real change from Charleston there. A better team than Portland would have torn apart TFC by the mistakes that TFC made.

Looking forward to seeing what happens when JDG takes to the field. It could make a huge difference, with this system.

It's going to be a long, tough rebuilding year, but at least we can celebrate an early win. TFC needs some better players, period, and hopefully Winter & Co. can continue to bring them in.

BTW, that first goal was fantastic!

Agree with this wholeheartedly. The middle was very weak and the attacking was one dimensional at times. Portland were a very poor side, a decent side would have figured TFC out quite quickly and made it more difficult for the wingers. Portland also had some real chances but they were poor in attack. TFC were also worrying at set pieces with the marking players often trailing behind runners in the box. DeGuzman should definitely help in the middle, if he does not deliver this season in that role it will speak volumes about him as a player and his overall ability. TFC though did play some good football at times and Martina's finish for the second was fantastic. Gordon looked good at times and made some wise passes but I would prefer him to be more mobile, he is not a starting CF for me, I would hope we could do better. I would still say that Winter still has to try and replace about four current first team starters before he has a competent team. I still expect TFC to continue like the previous seasons in that they will be decent at home but will probably be picked apart away from home. Glad for the win though, hopefully it gives the boys a lift.

bman27
03-26-2011, 05:23 PM
just got In
Even with the red card, I was impressed with Yourassowsky. Made smart decisions on the ball, and loved how he moved forward in the rush, would love to see more of that,shame about the stupid red. Gargan should not be starting at this point, its obvious that he is out of his depth in this style of play, and he has become a liabilty with the ball. not going to be overly critical of Stevanovic, he played quite well for someone who has been with the team for less then a day, he obviously needs to get on board with the playing style and get to know his team mates, but looking forward he looks like he will be another dangerous option for us

ManUtd4ever
03-26-2011, 05:29 PM
Agree with this wholeheartedly. The middle was very weak and the attacking was one dimensional at times. Portland were a very poor side, a decent side would have figured TFC out quite quickly and made it more difficult for the wingers. Portland also had some real chances but they were poor in attack. TFC were also worrying at set pieces with the marking players often trailing behind runners in the box. DeGuzman should definitely help in the middle, if he does not deliver this season in that role it will speak volumes about him as a player and his overall ability. TFC though did play some good football at times and Martina's finish for the second was fantastic. Gordon looked good at times and made some wise passes but I would prefer him to be more mobile, he is not a starting CF for me, I would hope we could do better. I would still say that Winter still has to try and replace about four current first team starters before he has a competent team. I still expect TFC to continue like the previous seasons in that they will be decent at home but will probably be picked apart away from home. Glad for the win though, hopefully it gives the boys a lift.

Yes, this is my estimation as well. The good news is that at least two of those four positions will be filled from within when JDG and Attakora return to the lineup. Beyond that, a starting RB and a defensive MF should be the priority for Winter and Mariner in their search to add players from outside the organization.

torontocelt
03-26-2011, 05:34 PM
Yes, this is my estimation as well. The good news is that at least two of those four positions will be filled from within when JDG and Attakora return to the lineup. Beyond that, a starting RB and a defensive MF should be the priority for Winter and Mariner in their search to add players from outside the organization.

I would also say a CF too, Gordon for me does not look like he has goals in him.

Dkolish3
03-26-2011, 05:34 PM
I don't get why you guys are complaining about Yourassowsky the man made overlapping runs to support Dero, when was the last time you saw that from a TFC fullback. He is in my mind the best fullback on the team.

Heart of Stone
03-26-2011, 05:35 PM
AGREE 100%

We need Garcia back...

ArmenJBX
03-26-2011, 05:35 PM
We need Garcia back...

There was a rumour someone was returning, said to be Saric but..

I wouldn't go saying that kind of thing, or you might just be surprised :D

Shakes McQueen
03-26-2011, 05:37 PM
Won the game, played pretty attractive football, scored a beautiful goal, managed to keep Cooper off the scoresheet, and got Frei a clean sheet. I'd call that a pretty good day, whatever the criticisms of the performance.

The backline still looks weak, but hopefully help will be on the way there. Yourassowsky's red card was ridiculous, but he shouldn't have tempted fate in the first place, knowing he was already on a yellow.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
03-26-2011, 05:40 PM
We need Garcia back...

I'd be fine with bringing Garcia back for depth, if it was at a smaller salary.

Like I said for most of last season - Garcia was an atrocious mess in his first season with us, but I thought he was more or less competent last year, and only continued to catch all kinds of flack because a lot of people refused to revise their conclusions about him.

- Scott

ManUtd4ever
03-26-2011, 05:40 PM
I would also say a CF too, Gordon for me does not look like he has goals in him.

Yes, but I would rather move Santos back to CF and play Martina and Stevanovic on the wings.

Batman
03-26-2011, 05:40 PM
There was a rumour someone was returning, said to be Saric but..

I wouldn't go saying that kind of thing, or you might just be surprised :D

I wouldn't mind if Saric came back

ensco
03-26-2011, 05:45 PM
I'd be fine with bringing Garcia back for depth, if it was at a smaller salary.



There is zero chance of this happening, imho. Garcia was believed be many to be Mo's mole in the room.

swan
03-26-2011, 05:46 PM
Yes, but I would rather move Santos back to CF and play Martina and Stevanovic on the wings.

bingo this is the best option..

denime
03-26-2011, 05:51 PM
;1256933']We're still waiting on Bouchiba and unfortunately we're stuck with Gargan at right back, unless you want to play Harden at centreback every game and put Attakora at right back:).

Gargan ---- CANN --- ATTAKORA --- YOURASSOWSKY
---------------- DE GUZMAN
----- Bouchiba------------------ STEVANOVIC
---------------- DE ROSARIO
---- MARTINA --------------- SANTOS

Bouchiba is out for a while and he might need surgery.

sully
03-26-2011, 05:52 PM
Yes, this is my estimation as well. The good news is that at least two of those four positions will be filled from within when JDG and Attakora return to the lineup. Beyond that, a starting RB and a defensive MF should be the priority for Winter and Mariner in their search to add players from outside the organization.

Winter mentioned in the post game that a new defender will be coming in soon...

sidvan
03-26-2011, 05:53 PM
Red card was issued after second yellow for time wasting. Makes a difference with regard to suspension.

Shakes McQueen
03-26-2011, 05:54 PM
There is zero chance of this happening, imho. Garcia was believed be many to be Mo's mole in the room.

If that is the case, and he was responsible for some of the poison in the locker room, then obviously I wouldn't want him back with the team.

But if it wasn't, then I'd be open to having him back.

- Scott

gtaguy
03-26-2011, 05:56 PM
not a bad game and i will keep my negative thoughts for another day..

Martina you da Man..

ManUtd4ever
03-26-2011, 05:57 PM
Winter mentioned in the post game that a new defender will be coming in soon...

Maybe Chris Hunter? Whoever it is, I hope he's a RB, and is more skilled and mobile than Gargan. With all due respect to Gargan, he is far more effective as a late game defensive substitute.

swan
03-26-2011, 05:58 PM
Yes, but I would rather move Santos back to CF and play Martina and Stevanovic on the wings.

bingo this is the best option..

denime
03-26-2011, 05:59 PM
Winter mentioned in the post game that a new defender will be coming in soon...

and DM ;)

Heathen
03-26-2011, 06:00 PM
Possession football lol. The second goal was as far from it as possible and thank god too. I'm glad we showed a little pragmatism with our style today

ManUtd4ever
03-26-2011, 06:04 PM
and DM ;)

Saric?

LOL at your avatar!

Cashcleaner
03-26-2011, 06:24 PM
hopefully things settle down a bit.

Pretty good game, I'd say not great, but pretty good.

Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I don't think we had the same sort of possession that we did in Vancouver and our defence was still struggling.

However,

JAVIER FUCKING MARTINA!

What a game for him, eh?! I'm just counting down until the day we get JDG back on the pitch. The two of them could end up being incredibly effective together.

rocker
03-26-2011, 06:27 PM
Possession football lol. The second goal was as far from it as possible and thank god too. I'm glad we showed a little pragmatism with our style today

the style today was very different than against Vancouver, particularly with regards to Frei's mode of distribution.

Canadian Blue
03-26-2011, 06:28 PM
Good win, but a draw would have been the fair result. There is still a very long way to go...

Petor
03-26-2011, 06:30 PM
http://twitpic.com/4dll54

:scarf::flare::scarf:

DangerRed
03-26-2011, 06:36 PM
Both great goals, but still not thrilled about how much of the game was in our own end. Great practice for our defenders, but I kept thinking about how different this would be if we were facing RSL or NYRB instead of Portland.

Anyway, easy three points, nothing to complain about, and Stevanovic looks like he has mad skill.

rocker
03-26-2011, 06:39 PM
From the TFC TV press conference, I see that Winter recognizes it wasn't a great performance but good enough -- with lots to work on before Chivas. seems about right to me.

Petor
03-26-2011, 06:39 PM
My best picture of the day, yay Sulpher and Sulphette!
http://twitpic.com/4dkco0

ExiledRed
03-26-2011, 06:39 PM
Possession football lol. The second goal was as far from it as possible and thank god too. I'm glad we showed a little pragmatism with our style today

I had a laugh about that too. Good old possesion based, attractive, systematic, longball.

This was all Frei, its his surprise attack special move. I was surprised to see Martina getting on the end of it instead of DeRo, though.

Awesome finish, Martina's going to do well.

Pookie
03-26-2011, 06:42 PM
The Good Stuff

- acknowledging Rodrigo
- Martina's performance
- Frei's long ball to set up his second goal. Perhaps a side benefit of lulling folks into playing tight by usually playing it short from the back line?
- All around solid effort without needing to put all the eggs in one basket


The Weird Stuff

- Spray painting lines for free kicks?
- The Red Card
- new menus at BMO but I'll have to save up to afford one of their new sandwiches
- Kardinal Offishall's Anthem was good at the half. Putting the mic up to the folks in 113 and giving them the lyrics to repeat but they couldn't follow anything but the first line.

How hard is:

I'm from the T-Dot-ooh ooh
Rep it everywhere I go
Everybody from the cold
There is where we're calling home

I'm from the T-Dot-ooh ooh
Rep it everywhere I go
Million people at your door
This is where we're calling home
?



9W6Jl3beOlY

johntv
03-26-2011, 06:47 PM
Win, Lose or Draw, that was way more fun to watch then Preki Ball.

Martina's second goal, world class pass, world class finish!

I had a great time ,took my buddy from Amsterdam and a great Ajax fan to Shoeless which totally amazed him,never expected this here in Canada he said.
The game was what I expected, Dutch style of possesion soccer.Still to many technical errors mostly skill wise.I spoke to Aron and his wife,both were very pleased and were very impressed with the fans.My buddy complained about having his shoes being planted in snow,never experienced that he said,welcome to Canada Martin.

bgnewf
03-26-2011, 06:47 PM
Two games in and we have two goal of the year candidates... First Maicon and now Martina this week with dare I say it an even better goal than Maicon's last week.

Scoring like that after striking the ball in the air outside the box was amazing. Frankly I felt honoured to see it live.

rocker
03-26-2011, 06:53 PM
Two games in and we have two goal of the year candidates... First Maicon and now Martina this week with dare I say it an even better goal than Maicon's last week.

Scoring like that after striking the ball in the air outside the box was amazing. Frankly I felt honoured to see it live.

one of the nicest at BMO for sure.

all 4 goals this season have been pretty. I don't remember that many pretty goals in a row in previous seasons.

nice change from the "we have to struggle to score... unless it's a fluke, a scramble, or an own goal" theme of past seasons.

fdasilva
03-26-2011, 07:01 PM
It was awesome seeing that goal live at BMO, well worth the ticket.

wzhxvy
03-26-2011, 07:02 PM
Some good individual performance today. Martina obviously and Dero played hard on both sides of the ball. However, this team is worst than last year's team right now. They have to make big strides to make the playoffs and need to upgrade defensively. Maybe with Nana and DeGuzman its more solid in the back but we need a 1 RB and 1LB.

Kooper
03-26-2011, 07:05 PM
My best picture of the day, yay Sulpher and Sulphette!
http://twitpic.com/4dkco0

Nice I can't wait to take my daughter when she is born in a few weeks. Is nine days old vs. LA too young for the supporters section?

Heathen
03-26-2011, 07:08 PM
the style today was very different than against Vancouver, particularly with regards to Frei's mode of distribution.

You could tell though in the first half they wanted to pass the ball around at the back but no one was coming to get the ball (hurry up and get fit De Guzman), at least they didn't get caught in possession this time. In the second half with the wind it made tactical sense to use Frei's kicking.

ecospice
03-26-2011, 07:35 PM
WTF was that red card?!

The ref was useless all game. I explained to him what I thought of him from the back of my section (until my wife made me shut up)....

:scarf::scarf::scarf:

69Chevy396
03-26-2011, 07:37 PM
A great fastball pitcher cannot throw nothing but heat, he needs to mix it up. The possession game, the short Frei throws and passes in the first half tricked Portland defenders into thinking they could cheat a little and were left exposed by that long kick to Martina. No way that goal happens if Frei booted the ball down the pitch all night like the shit we have seen here for four years.

reggie
03-26-2011, 07:42 PM
Maybe Chris Hunter? Whoever it is, I hope he's a RB, and is more skilled and mobile than Gargan. With all due respect to Gargan, he is far more effective as a late game defensive substitute.
maybe its that gomez guy that is training with them now...
RELEASE THE GARGAN PLZ!!!
i like dan but he was brutal today,dont know how long stugis will be on this team,i think winter does not like him.
not the best game...but we will take the 3 points and take a hot shower.

TFCwestcan
03-26-2011, 07:48 PM
Well that was much better, just watched the game via PVR, the team as a whole played at a higher level than last week, I thought the backline improved as the game went on, and the offense looked dangerous. Some of the cross diagonal passing was first rate. The red on Yourassowsky was harsh, he really had a great game but you can tell that there are scary elements to his game (crazy tackles etc.). Zavarise has some good touches, liked where Dero played, and Santos was great, he has such a good touch, Stavanovic looked fast yet not quite connecting with the team this was to be expected as he just got off the plane. Harden was much improved, Cann was excellent heading and defending well all game, Frei was his usual self. Sturgis looked better. Gordon looked useful although I think he will improve as he understands the system, I like what he brings over Labrocca. Martina's second goal was goal of the week material. Ah yes put away the doom and gloom at least for this week. I am looking forward to the match in July at PGE field in Portland.

It's interesting that many pundits had Portland ahead of Vancouver, even discounting todays result, I think that Vancouver has a better team.

MG42
03-26-2011, 07:54 PM
Gargan had a tough game today, no vision up the field.

TFCRegina
03-26-2011, 07:55 PM
Gargan has had a tough game everyday, no vision up the field.

Fixed.

boban
03-26-2011, 07:56 PM
From the TFC TV press conference, I see that Winter recognizes it wasn't a great performance but good enough -- with lots to work on before Chivas. seems about right to me.
I thought you said all losses are the same. Conversely that would make all wins the same, no?

Eastend
03-26-2011, 07:56 PM
Finally thawed out. Nice wind burn.

Liked: Martina, Santos, DeRo, Yourra, the play on the ground and possession.

Not so much: Gargan, Sturgis.

I am still cautiously optimistic.

TheKing7
03-26-2011, 07:56 PM
So the 2012 "supporters" kit was revealed today... anyone grab a pic? thoughts?

Yohan
03-26-2011, 07:57 PM
Possession football lol. The second goal was as far from it as possible and thank god too. I'm glad we showed a little pragmatism with our style today
part of it was because Portland got into a lull thinking Frei was looking for a short pass or throw after he caught the corner and part of it was Frei recognizing opportunity to kick it down the field and Martina with the rocket.

mixing it up keeps the opposition honest.

TFCRegina
03-26-2011, 08:04 PM
part of it was because Portland got into a lull thinking Frei was looking for a short pass or throw after he caught the corner and part of it was Frei recognizing opportunity to kick it down the field and Martina with the rocket.

mixing it up keeps the opposition honest.

The other part is that it's too damn cold and wet to be playing short game football. There's a reason why the Brits play kick and rush.

Boondaddy
03-26-2011, 08:06 PM
Missed that goal as I popped out for a pee...typical.

Blixa
03-26-2011, 08:09 PM
Last week I gave the team shit but I'll say this today: great performance all around. One thing's for sure - we're gonna see a lot of goals this season. It's nice to finally have so many different attacking options. And the second goal was a stunner.

ExiledRed
03-26-2011, 08:11 PM
anyone got a link for the galaxy game

UltraSuperMegaMo
03-26-2011, 08:15 PM
anyone got a link for the galaxy game

http://www.soccertvlive.net/watch/56992/1/watch-real-salt-lake-vs-la-galaxy.html

TFCwestcan
03-26-2011, 08:16 PM
Missed that goal as I popped out for a pee...typical.

Don't worry you will be able to see it as goal of the week on the MLS site...

ExiledRed
03-26-2011, 08:17 PM
http://www.soccertvlive.net/watch/56992/1/watch-real-salt-lake-vs-la-galaxy.html

thanks, just in time to see RSL's second goals at 8 minutes into the first half!

whoa

Dreadlocks
03-26-2011, 08:44 PM
Glad to get the 3 points. That's what matters most - no?

Did anyone else sense a bit of attitude from Stevanovic when he didn't get the ball?

ArmenJBX
03-26-2011, 08:53 PM
^^^
Get's that from Mourinho ;)

dantdot
03-26-2011, 09:00 PM
Glad to get the 3 points. That's what matters most - no?

Did anyone else sense a bit of attitude from Stevanovic when he didn't get the ball?

Only that one play that Yourass bungled, didn't make the completely obvious pass that would have sent Stevanovic in alone.

swan
03-26-2011, 09:01 PM
Glad to get the 3 points. That's what matters most - no?

Did anyone else sense a bit of attitude from Stevanovic when he didn't get the ball?

i was yelling at them as well to pass and when it didnt come .. hopefully thats just him hungry to win..

Yohan
03-26-2011, 09:09 PM
I'm happy that TFC won, but if you look at Portland lineup, except for few players, it's essentially an USL team. Against better opposition esp teams that know how to run against somewhat static TFC defence, we would have been shredded.

Cann had a good game, as well as Harden even with couple of mistakes probably his best game as TFC player that I can recall. Gargan had a terrible game... again. Yourass is probably best attacking fullback we're going to have. A bit early to make that call, but he has enough speed, and timing to make good forward runs. He looks to get involved in attack, and I don't think he got caught far up the field that I noticed.

I also like the fact that Winter can make adjustments, even formation changes. Shows flexibility

AmherstNY_TFC
03-26-2011, 09:26 PM
It was nice to see TFC trying to play some attacking soccer. Having said that, we gave away possession in the middle way, way, way, way, way too much. We really need a guy in the middle of the park who can keep possession and stroke the ball around the park.

Also, it seems like the "Dutch System" is going to take some time to implement. A good example is Yourassowsky make overlapping runs, but not getting the pass because some of the players want to slow down. I think Aron Winter will be stressing that passes have to be quicker, decision making has to be quicker, and changing the point of attack needs to happen quicker and more often. Still too many square pegs in round holes.

But, it was nice to see them respond with a win, and clearly Martina is a find. Goal of the week, anyone?

Borga
03-26-2011, 09:33 PM
Obviously it's way too early to make a judgment, but Stefanovic looked to me like he was out for a Sunday stroll. Seemed like he figured he had enough talent to make the opposition look stupid with his moves, and then seemed a bit surprised when he got stripped of the ball continuously, or gave it away.

Hopefully he'll realize the league isn't entirely a cakewalk and takes things up a few notches.

bigtfcfan
03-26-2011, 09:34 PM
I'm happy that TFC won, but if you look at Portland lineup, except for few players, it's essentially an USL team. Against better opposition esp teams that know how to run against somewhat static TFC defence, we would have been shredded.

Cann had a good game, as well as Harden even with couple of mistakes probably his best game as TFC player that I can recall. Gargan had a terrible game... again. Yourass is probably best attacking fullback we're going to have. A bit early to make that call, but he has enough speed, and timing to make good forward runs. He looks to get involved in attack, and I don't think he got caught far up the field that I noticed.

I also like the fact that Winter can make adjustments, even formation changes. Shows flexibility

Agree! Gargan wasn't good as always, and Yuro can get forward!

Dreadlocks
03-26-2011, 09:54 PM
Just a though on Sturgis....He's not going to cut it plaing in the middle in this system clearly. He looks like he's running in circles.

However, he does look better than Gargan does as far as technical skill and game smarts (not hard to do). Why not turn him into our missing right back? I'm not sure about his pace but being a central midfielder he should have a defensive mentality and a bit of willingness to get forward. He looks pretty fit as well I think.

Any thoughts?

Roogsy
03-26-2011, 09:57 PM
There is zero chance of this happening, imho. Garcia was believed be many to be Mo's mole in the room.

This is a suspicion of the fans, not the players. Garcia in fact was looked up to by many players especially due to all his work with the MLSPA and he steered clear of most of the backroom drama at TFC.

I hope one day the "Garcia-mole" rumours get put away for good because they are quite inaccurate. That is by no means my belief that he should come back. I think his best days are behind him. But despite my best efforts, the poor information that comes from this board has to be fought, as futile as that job actually is.

drexel10
03-26-2011, 10:00 PM
Obviously it's way too early to make a judgment, but Stefanovic looked to me like he was out for a Sunday stroll. Seemed like he figured he had enough talent to make the opposition look stupid with his moves, and then seemed a bit surprised when he got stripped of the ball continuously, or gave it away.

Hopefully he'll realize the league isn't entirely a cakewalk and takes things up a few notches.


I think you are spot on here and I noticwd he did make an adjustment. He was surprised by the pace of the game, but then when he started moving he became very interesting :) I like what I saw from him because there is no way he should have been on that field today.

torontocelt
03-26-2011, 10:10 PM
Yes, but I would rather move Santos back to CF and play Martina and Stevanovic on the wings.


For me if I were playing TFC I would basically mark the wingers tight, double up if I had to as all the offense goes through them. I would try to encourage TFC to play through the middle of their midfield which is weak. I would also play on the counter, wait for the attacking wing backs to get forward and then play diagonal through balls down in to the space left by the wing backs . This in turn would leave the center backs splitting in the middle as one would have to go wide and I would play it into the runners through the middle who could then finish. I am sure that when they come up against a decent team then this will happen. With regards to playing Santos through the middle instead of a CF like Gordon we could have problems with holding the ball up, I dont see that as a strong point of Santos. I dont see Santos providing what Winter is looking for in a CF, he does not win headers and does not put himself about much, that is why I think we need a CF with the qualities of Gordon but better. I like Santos though and I think Stefanovic is decent from what i have seen but trying to fit Santos, DeRo, Martina and Stefanovic into the system is a problem for me. It is good depth in that area though for sure.

David Steele
03-26-2011, 10:12 PM
Good start today. Room for improvement that wont happen overnight. Martinas second goal was special , very well taken on the run one against one.

Roogsy
03-26-2011, 10:13 PM
I am happy for TFCs first win. If there is a game we need to win to keep the hope for the year, it's our home opener against an expansion side.

That being said, there was more frustration with this game than positives. We won for one reason only, Portland is bad. A better team would have beaten us today. Once again, whatever "possession" we dominated at, much of it came in our own half. This is not good.

Our backline continues to be horrible. The improvement over last week is slight and has more to do with Cann back in his natural position. But the front 4 or 5 players in front of Frei are stinking it up bad, constantly losing possession which against better teams will absolutely kill us. Gargan and Sturgis were particularly bad...again.

The forwards are doing their thing though. I enjoyed watching Maicon and Martina and I think DeRo had a good game, his work led to the first goal. However, I can see why Gordon was not a starter. Yes he just joined the team this week but his interview on TFCTV showed a lack of enthusiasm to be here and his decision-making on the pitch is below average. I don't think we will get a whole lot out of him this season.

It can't be overlooked that the 2nd goal was a route 1 play that is not likely to work much this year against better opposition. You are lucky to get one of those per year. However, it does point to Frei's heads up decision making and Martina's much better ability than Barrett to finish in front of goal.

All in all, I enjoyed the win and loved celebrating goals. But there is still much to worry about with this team.

I'd like to thank DeRo for bringing the team over to the corner and helping us send our condolences to a lost supporter and friend. DeRo had the banner taken into the locker room and signed by every player and then returned to the group to give to the family.

Nodoubtguy
03-26-2011, 10:17 PM
I am happy for TFCs first win. If there is a game we need to win to keep the hope for the year, it's our home opener against an expansion side.

That being said, there was more frustration with this game than positives. We won for one reason only, Portland is bad. A better team would have beaten us today. Once again, whatever "possession" we dominated at, much of it came in our own half. This is not good.

Our backline continues to be horrible. The improvement over last week is slight and has more to do with Cann back in his natural position. But the front 4 or 5 players in front of Frei are stinking it up bad, constantly losing possession which against better teams will absolutely kill us. Gargan and Sturgis were particularly bad...again.

The forwards are doing their thing though. I enjoyed watching Maicon and Martina and I think DeRo had a good game, his work led to the first goal. However, I can see why Gordon was not a starter. Yes he just joined the team this week but his interview on TFCTV showed a lack of enthusiasm to be here and his decision-making on the pitch is below average. I don't think we will get a whole lot out of him this season.

It can't be overlooked that the 2nd goal was a route 1 play that is not likely to work much this year against better opposition. You are lucky to get one of those per year. However, it does point to Frei's heads up decision making and Martina's much better ability than Barrett to finish in front of goal.

All in all, I enjoyed the win and loved celebrating goals. But there is still much to worry about with this team.

I'd like to thank DeRo for bringing the team over to the corner and helping us send our condolences to a lost supporter and friend. DeRo had the banner taken into the locker room and signed by every player and then returned to the group to give to the family.

As much as I've gotten on his case for the things he's done.....that was classy. Hats off to him and everyone that helped remember the loss in our group today.

Detroit_TFC
03-26-2011, 10:19 PM
Obviously it's way too early to make a judgment, but Stefanovic looked to me like he was out for a Sunday stroll. Seemed like he figured he had enough talent to make the opposition look stupid with his moves, and then seemed a bit surprised when he got stripped of the ball continuously, or gave it away.

Hopefully he'll realize the league isn't entirely a cakewalk and takes things up a few notches.

Didn't A.S. just arrive in TO yesterday? The fact he even played today is very surprising to me. I'd say that's a good sign, a hungry player. That he'll need some time to adjust to MLS playing style is understandable.

Detroit_TFC
03-26-2011, 11:03 PM
So what's the consensus on the actual attendance? Certainly not the ridiculous announced attendance of 20,086. I was thinking around 17K. Half of north stand was empty. Significant amount of empty seats in the west stand, including most of 227.

TFCRegina
03-26-2011, 11:03 PM
So what's the consensus on the actual attendance? Certainly not the ridiculous announced attendance of 20,086. I was thinking around 17K. Half of north stand was empty. Significant amount of empty seats in the west stand, including most of 227.

The number was probably the number of sold seats.

But yeah, I'd guess somewhere around 17 to 18k.

UltraSuperMegaMo
03-26-2011, 11:05 PM
It's stated in the past that announced # is based on tickets scanned. Not sure what to believe frankly.

KRO
03-26-2011, 11:16 PM
Harden had a much better game this week alongside Cann and should be given another chance. If Attakora is fit next game try him at right back - he's played there before. From the little I've seen of Ashtone Morgan I would give him a chance at LB while Yourassowski is suspended.

Lizzy
03-26-2011, 11:26 PM
Just a though on Sturgis....He's not going to cut it plaing in the middle in this system clearly. He looks like he's running in circles.

However, he does look better than Gargan does as far as technical skill and game smarts (not hard to do). Why not turn him into our missing right back? I'm not sure about his pace but being a central midfielder he should have a defensive mentality and a bit of willingness to get forward. He looks pretty fit as well I think.

Any thoughts?

I don't think Sturgis can play in any system at any position. He's just not good. I'm still pissed off about that trade. There are at least 5 players picked between #8 and #26 in this years draft I would take over him.

Yohan
03-27-2011, 02:48 AM
Just a though on Sturgis....He's not going to cut it plaing in the middle in this system clearly. He looks like he's running in circles.

However, he does look better than Gargan does as far as technical skill and game smarts (not hard to do). Why not turn him into our missing right back? I'm not sure about his pace but being a central midfielder he should have a defensive mentality and a bit of willingness to get forward. He looks pretty fit as well I think.

Any thoughts?
Sturgis apparently can play all three D positions. I think part of the reason why he was acquired is because of his ability to play multiple positions


This is a suspicion of the fans, not the players. Garcia in fact was looked up to by many players especially due to all his work with the MLSPA and he steered clear of most of the backroom drama at TFC.

I hope one day the "Garcia-mole" rumours get put away for good because they are quite inaccurate. That is by no means my belief that he should come back. I think his best days are behind him. But despite my best efforts, the poor information that comes from this board has to be fought, as futile as that job actually is.
not saying whether this is true or not, but no reason why Garcia can be both...

J .
03-27-2011, 03:09 AM
best part of the game was how solid our backline played.

TFCRegina
03-27-2011, 03:09 AM
Sturgis apparently can play all three D positions. I think part of the reason why he was acquired is because of his ability to play multiple positions


not saying whether this is true or not, but no reason why Garcia can be both...

Garcia was not the problem in the dressing room.

If people haven't figured out who the real problem was in the dressing room, they never will. It's called willingly buried heads in the sand.

Brooker
03-27-2011, 04:40 AM
Miguel Canizalez?

Island Man
03-27-2011, 05:43 AM
Harden had a much better game this week alongside Cann and should be given another chance. If Attakora is fit next game try him at right back - he's played there before. From the little I've seen of Ashtone Morgan I would give him a chance at LB while Yourassowski is suspended.
Agree with this, Harden was much improved. If Attakora is fit he has to play, where? I don't know! :scarf:

Blazer
03-27-2011, 05:45 AM
So what's the consensus on the actual attendance? Certainly not the ridiculous announced attendance of 20,086. I was thinking around 17K. Half of north stand was empty. Significant amount of empty seats in the west stand, including most of 227.

I think 17K is a pretty fair estimate. A smattering of empty seats, but that’s par for the course when the team is as dreadful as they are. I’m surprised that people are still attending in such high numbers really, I suppose it’s because it was the first game of the season. Unless winning becomes a mainstay soon, expect your estimates to dip big-time.

HiHotorontofc
03-27-2011, 06:50 AM
Double Dutch phoooaaar, that second goal.....absolute class. (That ball could have gone miles away)

69Chevy396
03-27-2011, 07:45 AM
I think 17K is a pretty fair estimate. A smattering of empty seats, but that’s par for the course when the team is as dreadful as they are. I’m surprised that people are still attending in such high numbers really, I suppose it’s because it was the first game of the season. Unless winning becomes a mainstay soon, expect your estimates to dip big-time.

Ticket sales as a measure of attendance is used everywhere in pro sports. It was -10 windchill. There was no Yonge subway service. They were playing an expansion team. Yet, over 17k show up. Also, the high number of people mulling about in the concession areas throughout the game made the seating area appear more empty than usual; no different then when it is raining or snowing. The quality of play has been awful, but who are you comparing this to? The Leafs? The Raptors? All things considered TFC fan interest in this city is growing, and not diminishing.

Technorgasm
03-27-2011, 07:47 AM
FREI
>>>>>>>
JAVIER
>>>>>>>
ONION BAG . . .

boom.

post game love-in!!!
Made golthwaithe eat it.
made Cooper eat it.
Nice to see timbers fans at joes. . . . .and watch them eat it.

69Chevy396
03-27-2011, 07:48 AM
Double Dutch phoooaaar, that second goal.....absolute class. (That ball could have gone miles away)
I was thinking the same thing. For all the love for JDG here, and the guy I miss, Robbo, both did/do this regularly: JDG put the ball into the beer area three or four times last year on similar scoring chances.

DOMIN8R
03-27-2011, 07:52 AM
On another but related matter - I never appreciated not having a roof as much as yesterday.

The few degrees difference that the sun made when it shinned on the east side made sitting in the igloo (BMO field) just tolerable.

Pookie
03-27-2011, 08:02 AM
Ticket sales as a measure of attendance is used everywhere in pro sports. It was -10 windchill. There was no Yonge subway service. They were playing an expansion team. Yet, over 17k show up. Also, the high number of people mulling about in the concession areas throughout the game made the seating area appear more empty than usual; no different then when it is raining or snowing. The quality of play has been awful, but who are you comparing this to? The Leafs? The Raptors? All things considered TFC fan interest in this city is growing, and not diminishing.

I think interest is there. But the pricing remains a sticking point for me.

If fans can't unload tickets at cost, that speaks to a limited market at that price point. They got through their renewal "crisis" by exhausting the waiting list.

Who next?

Folks point to "winning" as the barometer that will fill the house. I think that's misleading. Winning may impact attendance in that the fans that have already paid are willing to actually go (difference between paid and actual attendance).

But winning, at these price points, likely won't influence the casual fan to part with their money and pony up with season ticket support.

I don't think that TFC has a market for ticket sales that is as large as it once was. They have priced them out and once out, they are hard to get back.

Parkdale
03-27-2011, 08:19 AM
one point I'd like to make about tickets / attendance / demand etc.

It's a GOOD thing that there are seats available for walkups. Lots of people still haven't been to a TFC game, and a large part of that is because they thought it was permanently sold out. If you've never been to a game, and the only options are scalpers or bundle deals, then you're less likely to even try to find a ticket.

People still want to see this team, that hasn't changed. What has changed is the perception that it's a 100% sellout and that if you want to see TFC you need to get in line behind 20,000 other people (aka the inflated waiting list).

It's hard to say what 'the market' actually is for TFC. I think it's still a developing product that can't be pined down as easily as the Raps or the marlies.

ensco
03-27-2011, 08:21 AM
This is a suspicion of the fans, not the players. Garcia in fact was looked up to by many players especially due to all his work with the MLSPA and he steered clear of most of the backroom drama at TFC.

I hope one day the "Garcia-mole" rumours get put away for good because they are quite inaccurate. That is by no means my belief that he should come back. I think his best days are behind him. But despite my best efforts, the poor information that comes from this board has to be fought, as futile as that job actually is.

I know someone close to the team who told me otherwise.

But you know the players and I don't. Got it.

tfc007
03-27-2011, 08:34 AM
Happy to see people came out in this weather,Football wasnt too bad,nice gesture by Dero at end of game (you guys know what I am Talking about) I will take the three points, now its time to cut the horns off the goats next saturday assuming they have horns.

Greg
03-27-2011, 08:57 AM
Happy to see people came out in this weather,Football wasnt too bad,nice gesture by Dero at end of game (you guys know what I am Talking about) I will take the three points, now its time to cut the horns off the goats next saturday assuming they have horns.

From my seats in 105 I couldn't quite tell what DeRo ended up doing after the game. Care to explain? Photos?

I saw that he grabbed some sort of flag or banner and then had the team pose with it? And then wore it as a cape on his way back.

Would love to know what it was about :)

Parkdale
03-27-2011, 09:24 AM
^ it was a memorial banner for a supporter that just recently passed away. Dero tweeted to that effect also after the match.

A really classy move.

Artur3575
03-27-2011, 09:32 AM
Lots of respect to the team for doing that

Beach_Red
03-27-2011, 09:34 AM
I don't think that TFC has a market for ticket sales that is as large as it once was. They have priced them out and once out, they are hard to get back.

But it's not really about selling the most number of tickets, it's about making the most profit. MLSE is looking for the perfect sweet spot. Sell-outs are great to give the appearance of demand, but if the tickets are priced too low it doesn't matter.

It's interesting how the movie business reports box office by dollar amounts and the sports business by attendance - even though there's a far greater dispaity in ticket prices to sports.

swan
03-27-2011, 10:25 AM
for now we are above columbus in points that makes me happy..

jazzy
03-27-2011, 10:47 AM
I actually was quite impressed with Alan Gordon. I always saw him as a big dumb bruiser before. But he has a great sense of things, is a decent passer, and played well in the system considering he just joined the team... works hard.

De Ro's pass to Martina was great, and he had some good spots, but he also fucked up a great deal, including failing to make about 3-4 easy passes.

Gordon big yes, but is not a stellar think ahead type of guy, he not DeRo missed some wide open men, and it was right in front of me in row 5,.. Gordon missed,.DeRo clear wide open in front of the net...and Gordon didn't even acknowledge...he took a defender like strike into the crowd,..I agree he is valuable , as long as he can get around the fact he isn't a striker,...as for DeRo I saw a new man out there, knowing full well his game is sometimes selfish, ( to be at his best), he was heads up all game, making soft touch's and always aware of positioning....He is trying without weakening his plus's.........fucked up?...not at my game...a new man , a new team.....we'll leave fucking up for future games but not at all in this one......a great sunny day

rocker
03-27-2011, 10:57 AM
Gordon big yes, but is not a stellar think ahead type of guy, he not DeRo missed some wide open men, and it was right in front of me in row 5,.. Gordon missed,.DeRo clear wide open in front of the net...and Gordon didn't even acknowledge...he took a defender like strike into the crowd,..I agree he is valuable , as long as he can get around the fact he isn't a striker,...as for DeRo I saw a new man out there, knowing full well his game is sometimes selfish, ( to be at his best), he was heads up all game, making soft touch's and always aware of positioning....He is trying without weakening his plus's.........fucked up?...not at my game...a new man , a new team.....we'll leave fucking up for future games but not at all in this one......a great sunny day

Gordon doesn't look like scoring, that's for sure. But he made a nice perfectly weighted leading pass to De Ro (who then had a VERY heavy touch and fucked up the chance, allowing the keeper to run out and grab the ball) and then Gordon had a brilliant little touch to Maicon for the breakaway before getting tackled.

please don't ignore De Ro's mistakes. He made many yesterday.

Super Cereal
03-27-2011, 11:17 AM
We need a Yourassowsky clone on the right side.

Super impressed with that player in spite of the probably undeserved sending off.

Great off the ball movement, makes intelligent runs, is an intense player, crossing seems ok and seems like he has a decent shot.

Agreed. I don't get the Yourassowsky hate, he should be the starting LB.

Macksam
03-27-2011, 11:34 AM
;1256945']I'm not impressed with Ashton Morgan at left back, he needs to get some speed in him, but it all takes time, I would not plug him in automatically. He still needs to work on playing one vs one. So not a fucking option at right back.

He was comfotable on the ball for the little time he played. He also never had an opportunity to display any speed or take anybody on one vs one.

ag futbol
03-27-2011, 11:39 AM
Morgan is fairly fast from what I've seen, the issue is his touch isn't the best. I think he's a decent plug in at this point at LB. Wouldn't be surprised to see him start. Much better option than Cann.

jazzy
03-27-2011, 11:48 AM
So what's the consensus on the actual attendance? Certainly not the ridiculous announced attendance of 20,086. I was thinking around 17K. Half of north stand was empty. Significant amount of empty seats in the west stand, including most of 227.

yup....and 1/2 of overpriced north's....which you can apparently get at 30% off at travelzoo...see thread........personally they should lower those prices like the raptors

jazzy
03-27-2011, 12:00 PM
Ticket sales as a measure of attendance is used everywhere in pro sports. It was -10 windchill. There was no Yonge subway service. They were playing an expansion team. Yet, over 17k show up. Also, the high number of people mulling about in the concession areas throughout the game made the seating area appear more empty than usual; no different then when it is raining or snowing. The quality of play has been awful, but who are you comparing this to? The Leafs? The Raptors? All things considered TFC fan interest in this city is growing, and not diminishing.

I'll be there prices withstanding forever. eSP on a glorious sunny day like yesterday....gotta dress appropiately ha!...but Toronto does have many fairweather fans and yes if they aren't hip and winning many wanna be's will be missing this year...as per Jays, but who cares A as long as I can watch skilled efforts, win or lose......the over the top pricing is the only thing that is and potentially has the effect to ruin attendance, definitely nothing to do with love of the game.

Heart of Stone
03-27-2011, 12:10 PM
One of the pluses of the Leafs missing the playoffs AGAIN is that the Jays and TFC will have a larger share of the attention of the casual Toronto sporting public in April/May... Argos may benefit from NFL strike/lockout situation...

jazzy
03-27-2011, 12:13 PM
I know someone close to the team who told me otherwise.

But you know the players and I don't. Got it.

I also spoke to many players, and frankly, surprising to me, was that they had no problems playing with Garcia and Gargan esp told me he actually looked up to him because of his leadership and onfield communication skills.........I felt awkward, in the realization, that I was just speculating my own opinions, and not privy to the real info.....also told Mo talked to noone....he was aloof and eager to let anyone carry the blame for anything.........NO contact with anyone,......not respected

Roogsy
03-27-2011, 12:35 PM
Sturgis apparently can play all three D positions. I think part of the reason why he was acquired is because of his ability to play multiple positions

Well a starter should not be a utility man. Utility players are used when regular starters are unavailable from time to time. So hopefully Sturgis will be riding the bench soon...or playing a position that he is better at.


not saying whether this is true or not, but no reason why Garcia can be both...

And there is no reason why Garcia can't also be a world famous doctor who moonlights as a CIA spy and a bellydancer. But I am going to guess he is none of these things. Let's stick to the facts.

jazzy
03-27-2011, 12:49 PM
Gordon doesn't look like scoring, that's for sure. But he made a nice perfectly weighted leading pass to De Ro (who then had a VERY heavy touch and fucked up the chance, allowing the keeper to run out and grab the ball) and then Gordon had a brilliant little touch to Maicon for the breakaway before getting tackled.

please don't ignore De Ro's mistakes. He made many yesterday.

imho....you can't or shouldn't take away a top players strengths...so little by little all I hope for is an adjustment in both mental and skill sets,... and I did see that yesterday....many ?...I will critize DeRo, but, as I wasn't concentrating on the negative aspects , I may have missed some 'mistakes'.....but lets not forget when he's not selfish, how does one see or even consider this important factor........his 1rst goal assist, all the work and beautiful soft touch,...in the past would he have continued on and made a futile shot ? who knows but I saw a more thoughtful DeRo yesterday....what more can I ask of the man?....I need a positive team, so if guys are giving it their best?....this is MLS after all,....and I am and was overwhelmed by his/the teams gesture of sympathy.....F it,...thats all it takes for me, I would be the same way for you or my mates.......cheers

Yohan
03-27-2011, 12:54 PM
Well a starter should not be a utility man. Utility players are used when regular starters are unavailable from time to time. So hopefully Sturgis will be riding the bench soon...or playing a position that he is better at.
I don't know what Sturgis's problem is, but I think he's got enough talent to be a starter. (former US U20 standout) Maybe his past injuries are hampering him still, but something is not quite right that he's not clicking in at TFC.


And there is no reason why Garcia can't also be a world famous doctor who moonlights as a CIA spy and a bellydancer. But I am going to guess he is none of these things. Let's stick to the facts.well argued, sir

VoxPopuliCosmicum
03-27-2011, 01:28 PM
And there is no reason why Garcia can't also be a world famous doctor who moonlights as a CIA spy and a bellydancer. But I am going to guess he is none of these things. Let's stick to the facts.

Have you ever seen the (admittedly semi-fictitious) movie All The President's Men? You know the part near the end when Woodward finally confronts Deep Throat? He says something like: "I'm tired of your chickenshit games! No more hints...what do you know?"

For all the inside info you purport to have, you share very little of it. Other people attempt to discern truth based their own observations and reasoned inferences, as well as their own sources (to which you're not privy). You seem to prefer to allude to "the real truth" (the details of which you won't share), all the while insulting and dismissing other people's views as categorically wrong. That's kind of dickish.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to do it; I just can't figure out why you do (unless you have a pecuniary interest, in which case you're not likely to disclose it, so it doesn't matter anyway).

BTW, Woodward made a very lucrative career out of publishing (sometimes truthful) leaked info for powerful people, and Deep Throat turned out to be an FBI guy with an axe to grind against Nixon.

jloome
03-27-2011, 01:30 PM
Gordon doesn't look like scoring, that's for sure. But he made a nice perfectly weighted leading pass to De Ro (who then had a VERY heavy touch and fucked up the chance, allowing the keeper to run out and grab the ball) and then Gordon had a brilliant little touch to Maicon for the breakaway before getting tackled.

please don't ignore De Ro's mistakes. He made many yesterday.

Gordon played a very nice game. So did DeRo, in a technical and movement sense. As usual, his decisions were his weak spot, but they weren't generally of great detriment and usually aren't.

Kooper
03-27-2011, 01:51 PM
Agreed. I don't get the Yourassowsky hate, he should be the starting LB.

I see where it comes from. His red card was just stupid. You teach little kids not to mouth off to the ref. It was even dumber because he was on his way off and his day was done.

He was pretty impressive. A tough tackler, good passer, quick, good positioning and decent vision. We are going to miss him against Chivas. I also think we are going to be talking about another couple of red cards from him. His style of play and attitude seems to indicate that he is going to get himself in trouble throughout the year. Hopefuly they won't be at crucial points.

Also think that in 2 weeks he will have had a week off, angry from the red card and will have something to prove lined up against Becks.

Roogsy
03-27-2011, 01:52 PM
Have you ever seen the (admittedly semi-fictitious) movie All The President's Men? You know the part near the end when Woodward finally confronts Deep Throat? He says something like: "I'm tired of your chickenshit games! No more hints...what do you know?"

For all the inside info you purport to have, you share very little of it. Other people attempt to discern truth based their own observations and reasoned inferences, as well as their own sources (to which you're not privy). You seem to prefer to allude to "the real truth" (the details of which you won't share), all the while insulting and dismissing other people's views as categorically wrong. That's kind of dickish.

It's interesting you put it that way. I am not sure what more "truth" you want. Garcia was not the mole in lockerroom. There is no "alluding". He simply wasn't. I am not suggesting it, I am saying it. So how you can say that I don't "share" is quite in a word, "dickish" when you have a straight up fact in your hand right in front of you. What you are not admitting is that without the full story (who was the mole, what were the problems, what were the cliques) you won't believe me. And that is your problem. You have a decision to make as to whether my information is credible based on whether I am a credible source.

I have sources as do many other TFC supporters. The ones that I know of to be credible, I don't call them "dickish" for not being able to tell me the whole story when they do speak to me, and only tell what they can. In fact, I appreciate that they do share what they can and we both move on. Some of you on here are quite frankly ungrateful for the info you do get because all it leads to is wanting more and getting quite capricious when you don't get it. Which is why aside from sharing inside info I have on issues I have discussed to this point (Garcia, DeRo etc.) I will no longer be offering information to the public board going forward and no, I won't be "alluding" to knowing any inside information either. When I share, it will be with those that have reciprocated or appreciated the info I have provided.


I'm not saying you don't have the right to do it; I just can't figure out why you do (unless you have a pecuniary interest, in which case you're not likely to disclose it, so it doesn't matter anyway).

BTW, Woodward made a very lucrative career out of publishing (sometimes truthful) leaked info for powerful people, and Deep Throat turned out to be an FBI guy with an axe to grind against Nixon.My biases and opinions have always been clear and open for all to see. Some of those biases and opinions have been formulated based on the information I have come across. For example, the first couple of seasons, I was not one of the supporters calling for Mo's firing. After speaking to more and more people inside TFC, I changed my mind and became a fervent proponent of running him out of town. I can't remember if any of the information I have ever provided has ever proven to be false, but I can tell you for certain that things I have shared have eventually come to light and verified later only to have those that doubted me stay completely silent over their criticism of me.

So to anyone who ha a problem with the way I share my info I say if you don't like the info I share, don't believe and heck, don't read it. But you get only what I can and want to share.

ManUtd4ever
03-27-2011, 02:15 PM
Regarding DeRo, I believe we will see more of his playmaking abilities on the pitch this season for one simple reason; he actually has options.

In his previous years in Houston, he was always considered a creative attacking midfielder but during his tenure in Toronto, he has been prone to playing a more selfish brand of football due to the lack of a supporting cast capable of finishing offensive sequences.

Roogsy
03-27-2011, 02:38 PM
Regarding DeRo, I believe we will see more of his playmaking abilities on the pitch this season for one simple reason; he actually has options.

In his previous years in Houston, he was always considered a creative attacking midfielder but during his tenure in Toronto, he has been prone to playing a more selfish brand of football due to the lack of a supporting cast capable of finishing offensive sequences.

This.

David_Oliveira
03-27-2011, 02:42 PM
It's interesting you put it that way. I am not sure what more "truth" you want. Garcia was not the mole in lockerroom. There is no "alluding". He simply wasn't. I am not suggesting it, I am saying it. So how you can say that I don't "share" is quite in a word, "dickish" when you have a straight up fact in your hand right in front of you. What you are not admitting is that without the full story (who was the mole, what were the problems, what were the cliques) you won't believe me. And that is your problem. You have a decision to make as to whether my information is credible based on whether I am a credible source.

I have sources as do many other TFC supporters. The ones that I know of to be credible, I don't call them "dickish" for not being able to tell me the whole story when they do speak to me, and only tell what they can. In fact, I appreciate that they do share what they can and we both move on. Some of you on here are quite frankly ungrateful for the info you do get because all it leads to is wanting more and getting quite capricious when you don't get it. Which is why aside from sharing inside info I have on issues I have discussed to this point (Garcia, DeRo etc.) I will no longer be offering information to the public board going forward and no, I won't be "alluding" to knowing any inside information either. When I share, it will be with those that have reciprocated or appreciated the info I have provided.

My biases and opinions have always been clear and open for all to see. Some of those biases and opinions have been formulated based on the information I have come across. For example, the first couple of seasons, I was not one of the supporters calling for Mo's firing. After speaking to more and more people inside TFC, I changed my mind and became a fervent proponent of running him out of town. I can't remember if any of the information I have ever provided has ever proven to be false, but I can tell you for certain that things I have shared have eventually come to light and verified later only to have those that doubted me stay completely silent over their criticism of me.

So to anyone who ha a problem with the way I share my info I say if you don't like the info I share, don't believe and heck, don't read it. But you get only what I can and want to share.

I personally appreciate the info you have, and everyone elses info for that matter. With you Roogs, I have never said he's full of shit. You seem like a guy in the know and your info has never been wrong

Pookie
03-27-2011, 03:05 PM
Regarding DeRo, I believe we will see more of his playmaking abilities on the pitch this season for one simple reason; he actually has options.

In his previous years in Houston, he was always considered a creative attacking midfielder but during his tenure in Toronto, he has been prone to playing a more selfish brand of football due to the lack of a supporting cast capable of finishing offensive sequences.

The question you have to wonder is did he play a "selfish" style because of a lack of options or because he felt like he had something to prove. In his own words, "let my play do the talking"?

From 2009:
3o2asnddx-s

VoxPopuliCosmicum
03-27-2011, 03:19 PM
It's interesting you put it that way. I am not sure what more "truth" you want. Garcia was not the mole in lockerroom. There is no "alluding". He simply wasn't. I am not suggesting it, I am saying it. So how you can say that I don't "share" is quite in a word, "dickish" when you have a straight up fact in your hand right in front of you. What you are not admitting is that without the full story (who was the mole, what were the problems, what were the cliques) you won't believe me. And that is your problem. You have a decision to make as to whether my information is credible based on whether I am a credible source.

You are not Mo Johnston, so the only "fact" I can discern from the above is that you purport to have a source who, for reasons only known to himself/herself, claims that Garcia was not the mole in the dressing room (interesting that you haven't commented on the identity of the "cancer" in the dressing room, but that's not my point). The "dickishness" I am referring to is your tendency to belittle the "facts" (i.e. theories) other people offer as not worthy of consideration, when they seem to be as soundly reasoned and sourced as your own "facts".

Again, I have no problem with the expression of opinions. Let a hundred flowers bloom and a thousand schools of thought contend. I would just like to see more substantive reasoning when you dismiss other people's "facts" in favour of your own.


I have sources as do many other TFC supporters. The ones that I know of to be credible, I don't call them "dickish" for not being able to tell me the whole story when they do speak to me, and only tell what they can. In fact, I appreciate that they do share what they can and we both move on. Some of you on here are quite frankly ungrateful for the info you do get because all it leads to is wanting more and getting quite capricious when you don't get it. Which is why aside from sharing inside info I have on issues I have discussed to this point (Garcia, DeRo etc.) I will no longer be offering information to the public board going forward and no, I won't be "alluding" to knowing any inside information either. When I share, it will be with those that have reciprocated or appreciated the info I have provided.

My biases and opinions have always been clear and open for all to see. Some of those biases and opinions have been formulated based on the information I have come across. For example, the first couple of seasons, I was not one of the supporters calling for Mo's firing. After speaking to more and more people inside TFC, I changed my mind and became a fervent proponent of running him out of town. I can't remember if any of the information I have ever provided has ever proven to be false, but I can tell you for certain that things I have shared have eventually come to light and verified later only to have those that doubted me stay completely silent over their criticism of me.

So to anyone who ha a problem with the way I share my info I say if you don't like the info I share, don't believe and heck, don't read it. But you get only what I can and want to share.

Noted.

levyashin
03-27-2011, 03:24 PM
:scarf::drinking:reviewing saturday,1;3pts--2;clean-sheet,--3;20,000+--4,more quality,--5,goals;what could any soccer fan need,when your team wins the week is good.THEN you see that another crap team is coming to town the following week,another possible 3 pts,could we be up to 3rd in the table by next sunday.hope is eternal.keep finding those players Mr.Mariner.

torontocelt
03-27-2011, 03:29 PM
The question you have to wonder is did he play a "selfish" style because of a lack of options or because he felt like he had something to prove. In his own words, "let my play do the talking"?

From 2009:
3o2asnddx-s

Pookie you really dislike DeRo dont you, ha ha!

Judging by some of the crap he has had to play with then it is a combination of both. For sure he has had to go at it alone because others are not in the correct position or whatever, I am also sure on occasion that he would have seen Chad, O'Brian, Ali etc available and thought passing to one of these guys was futile due to their overwhelming levels of ineptness. I mean by all accounts DeRo has been largely playing with garbage ever since he came to the club, I dont mean that as a personal insult to these players rather just a critique of their respective skill levels.

VoxPopuliCosmicum
03-27-2011, 03:35 PM
Regarding DeRo, I believe we will see more of his playmaking abilities on the pitch this season for one simple reason; he actually has options.

In his previous years in Houston, he was always considered a creative attacking midfielder but during his tenure in Toronto, he has been prone to playing a more selfish brand of football due to the lack of a supporting cast capable of finishing offensive sequences.

That's a very plausible interpretation of yesterday's game, and I hope to see it confirmed.

TFCwestcan
03-27-2011, 03:38 PM
Gordon played a very nice game. So did DeRo, in a technical and movement sense. As usual, his decisions were his weak spot, but they weren't generally of great detriment and usually aren't.

I think Gordon is a trade up from OBW, for a big guy I was impressed with some of his touches. I agree he will not pot a bunch of goals but perhaps he can get 7 to match Barrett? He will be useful this year.

Pookie
03-27-2011, 04:20 PM
Pookie you really dislike DeRo dont you, ha ha!



I don't mind his skill set. I don't think very much of him as a captain. And while he sees fit to open his mouth, I think he is fair game to be challenged on his comments and actions.

While he is wearing red though, I will applaud any positive contribution he can make.

When DeRo came to take the corner in the second half yesterday, 112-113 started the DeRosario-Tra-la-la-la-la chant.

Parts of 110 ended it with Douche--Bag, Douche--Bag. I smiled a little on the inside but thought it wasn't appropriate for a guy who is wearing our crest. BMO should be a hostile place for VISITORS, not our own.

So, if he gets traded, I won't spend much time lamenting his departure but until then, I welcome his positive contributions on and off the field.

Roogsy
03-27-2011, 04:34 PM
Again, I have no problem with the expression of opinions. Let a hundred flowers bloom and a thousand schools of thought contend. I would just like to see more substantive reasoning when you dismiss other people's "facts" in favour of your own.


I have never dismissed "facts" nor belittled them. In fact, there have often been discussions between people in the "know" coming from two different angles with what would appear to be different information and yet I have never dismissed them. Section 117 being a good example.

The key here is that I usually know where they are getting their facts and many people here know where I get mine.

What I have always "dismissed" is blatant gossip and conjecture that comes from nothing other than inventive imaginations. If you can point to one incident that I have dismissed someone for having good information, I will certainly apologize. But this Garcia talk is certainly not that case where this growing rumour of him being the mole has only come from the line of thought that he must be because he used to play with Mo. If that is what you call "fact", then yes, I dismiss it. And the reason I am not very nice about it is because this board tends to engage in unfair character assassination when it feels like it. Nick was a good guy, caught in a bad situation he didn't want to be in and people continue to bash him personally for things he did not do just because he stunk it up on the field (which he did do). To me, that is slander and I will dismiss it with good reason. If you call it "belittling" fine...I don't care too much over being accused of belittling someone who engages in such irresponsible behaviour. As a lawyer, I would have thought you'd appreciate that more than anyone.

J .
03-27-2011, 04:41 PM
They should have made the north end cheap seats for those who dont want to be in supporters sections, because it drives me crazy people buy into the supporters areas and want to sit the whole match or complain about flags, jumping etc.

That way the fans can have their area and the supporters theirs without conflict that comes between the sitters and the crazies.

And as I said before, best part of the game was the defense and it allowed our attack to function. Getting up a goal early didnt hurt either.

Decent game, probably a C+ rating, there is still a lot that needs to be done and I dont know if they would have held on if it was against a better team.

Ill take the win and I think the Chivas match is a game the team needs to win to build confidence in themselves and their new style.

habstfc
03-27-2011, 06:48 PM
The result yesterday was great. I did however think that portlands' midfield completely dominated our midfield especially in the first half, which is why they dominated possesion as well. The second half was much better, I like the 4-3-3 formation and it showed offensively with much more opportunities. Matina's second goal was a cracker, my seats are in 120 and he pretty much hit it right in front of us more or less, It may be the best goal ever scored at bmo, at least for the home team. I like gordon as well, a huge improvement I think over white. There are still things to work on especially in the back and cdm at least until deguzman gets back. I think everything's going to be okay, I really like what I saw yesterday overall.

Kenny Cooper was a complete baby yesterday, for a guy that's about 6'3'' and 220 lbs he sure went down like a little girl yesterday with the slightest contact. He embarassed himself yesterday the way he was flopping around. The ref was just as bad buying his BS.

As far as attendance is concerned I thought it was an appropriate turnout considering the weather. There was more than 17k though guys c'mon, that's like 20% empty seats. I thought it was more like 19k max. The number given is for tickets sold I'm sure. Why is that some supporters have a fit if they see empty seats and say stuff like "interest is waning" or "people have lost interest".

2mil4dero+santo
03-27-2011, 08:22 PM
best part of the game was how solid our backline played.

lol is this a joke?

2mil4dero+santo
03-27-2011, 08:26 PM
Agreed. I don't get the Yourassowsky hate, he should be the starting LB.

To be fair, I don't think theres hate against the man. I think 95% of people on here think hes the best fullback we've had.

Myself and other people are just frustrated that he took a stupid yellow, beaking off to the ref when he's already on a yellow and his days done.

It was just a stupid thing to do, but it doesn't mean theres hate against him. Now if it was sturgis or Gargan getting the suspension, I'd be happy.

MG42
03-27-2011, 09:05 PM
The result yesterday was great. I did however think that portlands' midfield completely dominated our midfield yesterday especially in the first half, which is why they dominated possesion as well. The second half was much better, I like the 4-3-3 formation and it showed offensively with much more opportunities. Matina's second goal was a cracker, my seats are in 120 and he pretty much hit it right in front of us more or less, It may be the best goal ever scored at bmo, at least for the home team. I like gordon as well, a huge improvement I think over white. There are still things to work on especially in the back and cdm at least until deguzman gets back. I think everything's going to be okay, I really like what I saw yesterday overall.

Kenny Cooper was a complete baby yesterday, for a guy that's about 6'3'' and 220 lbs he sure went down like a little girl yesterday with the slightest contact. He embarassed himself yesterday the way he was flopping around. The ref was just as bad buying his BS.

As far as attendance is concerned I thought it was an appropriate turnout considering the weather. There was more than 17k though guys c'mon, that's like 20% empty seats. I thought it was more like 19k max. The number given is for tickets sold I'm sure. Why is that some supporters have a fit if they see empty seats and say stuff like "interest is waning" or "people have lost interest".

It was awesome, as nice it not better than Dichio's against Colorado

at 3:13

8lJtIYJCS8s&feature

ExiledRed
03-27-2011, 09:09 PM
Yourassowsky, pronounced your-ass-off-ski is definitely living up to his name.
So far we've seen the guy get needlessly red carded in Carolina, and again yesterday.

I hope its not going to be a running joke, we need that position covered.

ExiledRed
03-27-2011, 09:21 PM
It was awesome, as nice it not better than Dichio's against Colorado

at 3:13


nah his best was the one against DC were he throws the guy whos trying to foul him to the ground, then fools the keeper and trickles the ball into the net.

But thanks for making me go and watch all his goals again. Everybody should do that.

Juanito
03-27-2011, 09:23 PM
Yourassowsky, pronounced your-ass-off-ski is definitely living up to his name.
So far we've seen the guy get needlessly red carded in Carolina, and again yesterday.

I hope its not going to be a running joke, we need that position covered.

He was one hell of a liability yesterday, so was Gargan. We seem to have trouble with our wide-backs. I wonder if it's just the lack of defensive work-ethic in midfield that makes our wide-backs look so awful or are they really that awful?

2mil4dero+santo
03-27-2011, 09:55 PM
nah his best was the one against DC were he throws the guy whos trying to foul him to the ground, then fools the keeper and trickles the ball into the net.

But thanks for making me go and watch all his goals again. Everybody should do that.

I thought this was a yearly requirement for membership lol, kinda like baptism and communion?

denime
03-27-2011, 10:22 PM
He was one hell of a liability yesterday, so was Gargan. We seem to have trouble with our wide-backs. I wonder if it's just the lack of defensive work-ethic in midfield that makes our wide-backs look so awful or are they really that awful?

In 4-3-3 full backs are pushing forward and overlapping mids,when that happens midfielder has to cover up that space,like Martina did it in several occasions,just enough to slow down the attack and give defense to recover,and when attack is on the right the defender on the right side may join the attack while the other three defenders shift over to cover the right side and middle of the field and vise verse.

Watch game in 6 minutes and you can see Yourassowsky overlapping DeRo but DeRo decides not to pass and try something on his own,no wonder he is out of his position.Video around 1:20 min.

As far 2nd yellow card goes,that was the joke anyone accusing Yourassowsky for that should watch the same video were at the end you can see Yourassowsky limping and telling the ref he was injured.(minute 5:05)

Ref.who is a complete moron just minute before let Yourassowsky on to field after he was injured and on the sideline.:facepalm:


Game in 6 (http://%22http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=2907:)

Roogsy
03-27-2011, 10:26 PM
Denime...overlapping runs doesn't mean the overlapping player always gets the ball. It's meant to open up the defense to allow the attacking player with the ball have "options" and make the defense second guess themselves. Half the time, the attacking player will pass, half the time he will keep the ball and take on the defense. Your pointing to one instance of DeRo not passing does not account for all the other times that he does.

denime
03-27-2011, 10:43 PM
Denime...overlapping runs doesn't mean the overlapping player always gets the ball. It's meant to open up the defense to allow the attacking player with the ball have "options" and make the defense second guess themselves. Half the time, the attacking player will pass, half the time he will keep the ball and take on the defense. Your pointing to one instance of DeRo not passing does not account for all the other times that he does.

Agree,I used DeRo situation as an example how deep fullbacks go in 4-3-3,but my point was that in this system fullback will attack with or without the ball and because of that they look being out of position,and actually they are not.

Roogsy
03-27-2011, 10:48 PM
I see...and I would agree with you but which flank was Youra on? There was a problem with a flank on the right side where we were consistently getting burned and leaving the CBs taking on odd-man rushes. If you're going to be a fullback making runs up the wings, you more than anyone have to track back and yes, it takes more out of you than other players. That's why having a good fullback is so difficult to find, even moreso for TFC who seem to have more difficulty than anyone scouting good players and bringing them in.

This is also where our holding mids did not help the CBs behind them. Either it's poor tactics by Winter (I doubt it) or poor decision making by the defensive core. The coverage switching was very very poor.

2mil4dero+santo
03-27-2011, 10:52 PM
In 4-3-3 full backs are pushing forward and overlapping mids,when that happens midfielder has to cover up that space,like Martina did it in several occasions,just enough to slow down the attack and give defense to recover,and when attack is on the right the defender on the right side may join the attack while the other three defenders shift over to cover the right side and middle of the field and vise verse.

Watch game in 6 minutes and you can see Yourassowsky overlapping DeRo but DeRo decides not to pass and try something on his own,no wonder he is out of his position.Video around 1:20 min.

As far 2nd yellow card goes,that was the joke anyone accusing Yourassowsky for that should watch the same video were at the end you can see Yourassowsky limping and telling the ref he was injured.(minute 5:05)

Ref.who is a complete moron just minute before let Yourassowsky on to field after he was injured and on the sideline.:facepalm:


Game in 6 (http://%22http://torontofc.neulion.com/tfc/console.jsp?catid=2&id=2907:)

Denime, I respectfully disagree with you on both points.

Overlapping full backs do that to create an option and space. I don't think it's fair to point to one instance of Dero making a decision to run at a player instead of passing. There were lots of times when Dero used other players and was unselfish.

As for Yourassowsky, I guess only him, god and the ref will know exactly what was said. You may be right, but I would bet my mortgage that Yourassowsky gave him attitude that crossed the line. There was NO need for this, he didn't have anything to gain for being a smart ass to the ref and he let his team down. This is not the first time something like this has happened and that points to a pattern, not neccessarily bad officiating.

denime
03-27-2011, 10:53 PM
I see...and I would agree with you but which flank was Youra on? There was a problem with a flank on the right side where we were consistently getting burned and leaving the CBs taking on odd-man rushes. If you're going to be a fullback making runs up the wings, you more than anyone have to track back and yes, it takes more out of you than other players. That's why having a good fullback is so difficult to find, even moreso for TFC who seem to have more difficulty than anyone scouting good players and bringing them in.

This is also where our holding mids did not help the CBs behind them. Either it's poor tactics by Winter (I doubt it) or poor decision making by the defensive core. The coverage switching was very very poor.

I thin it's this, they are still not use it.
Other three defenders shift over to cover the fullback side.

lobo
03-27-2011, 11:08 PM
[Yourassowsky] was one hell of a liability yesterday, so was Gargan. We seem to have trouble with our wide-backs. I wonder if it's just the lack of defensive work-ethic in midfield that makes our wide-backs look so awful or are they really that awful?
funny, to me i thought yourass was fantastic yesterday, a real asset, i loved his overlap runs, really created space on the attack, need more of it ... on the other side of the pitch i kept seeing huge green spaces that could have and should have been filled by an attacking fullback, but never were .... to me, that is when the wide-back looks awful (on attack)

TFCRegina
03-28-2011, 12:13 AM
Yourassowsky, pronounced your-ass-off-ski is definitely living up to his name.
So far we've seen the guy get needlessly red carded in Carolina, and again yesterday.

I hope its not going to be a running joke, we need that position covered.

So we need to cover Yourass?

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 12:19 AM
:lol:


:thumbsup:

maninb
03-28-2011, 07:28 AM
"Garcia was not the mole in lockerroom. There is no "alluding". He simply wasn't. I am not suggesting it, I am saying it."???? hmmmmmm

Them why at the end of the 2008-2009 season was GARCIA called "that RAT from Kansas City" by 2 TFC players....even Mo didn't deny that he had "a good friend in the Changing room"

Nicholas982
03-28-2011, 08:57 AM
DeRo, DeGuz, Stev, Martina, Santos......is it just me or do we finally have a critical mass of players that are actually comfortable on the ball?

The players we've brought in since the change in management are light years ahead of all the First Wave scrubs MoJo was bringing in. For the first time, EVER, I'm actually excited about our roster.

We can finally score. And we haven't even reeled in that DP striker yet.

dupont
03-28-2011, 10:10 AM
We can finally score.

This is what I've been noticing as well. It's the biggest difference.

Pachuco
03-28-2011, 10:26 AM
On the Yourasowsky subject. I think we'll find that he'll be a very good additional as the year goes on. I was extremely impresed with his runs and his ability on the ball. He's that perfect LB we've been looking for.

There is no doubt he needs to tone it down, Winter doesn't strike me as someone who would let that shit go on for very long. Once he gets the cards out of his system I think he could very well be the best fullback we've ever had.

As for Martina, well, what else can be said that hasn't been said. He showed signs of being good in pre-season. He's now showing signs of being a great player for us for years to come.

Technorgasm
03-28-2011, 11:23 AM
On the Yourasowsky subject. I think we'll find that he'll be a very good additional as the year goes on. I was extremely impresed with his runs and his ability on the ball. He's that perfect LB we've been looking for.

There is no doubt he needs to tone it down, Winter doesn't strike me as someone who would let that shit go on for very long. Once he gets the cards out of his system I think he could very well be the best fullback we've ever had.

As for Martina, well, what else can be said that hasn't been said. He showed signs of being good in pre-season. He's now showing signs of being a great player for us for years to come.

so, was he hurt and being subbed at the end there?
if so that second yellow, then red, and now I assume 1 game suspension. . is complete BS no?

Wooster_TFC
03-28-2011, 12:13 PM
so, was he hurt and being subbed at the end there?
if so that second yellow, then red, and now I assume 1 game suspension. . is complete BS no?

That's what Winter said, that when Yourassowsky went down hurt, he told the 4th official that he was subbing him. I doubt it will be appealed though, based on Winter's post-game comments.

brad
03-28-2011, 12:31 PM
Regarding DeRo, I believe we will see more of his playmaking abilities on the pitch this season for one simple reason; he actually has options.

In his previous years in Houston, he was always considered a creative attacking midfielder but during his tenure in Toronto, he has been prone to playing a more selfish brand of football due to the lack of a supporting cast capable of finishing offensive sequences.

I noticed he was looking for the pass a lot more. In addition to what you've said (which I agree with), I think it's also down to his faith in the other players ability.

How many times did DeRo have the pass to Barrett last year and elect not to use it? A lot.

Darlofletch
03-28-2011, 01:13 PM
DeRo, DeGuz, Stev, Martina, Santos......is it just me or do we finally have a critical mass of players that are actually comfortable on the ball?

The players we've brought in since the change in management are light years ahead of all the First Wave scrubs MoJo was bringing in. For the first time, EVER, I'm actually excited about our roster.

We can finally score. And we haven't even reeled in that DP striker yet.

you do realise that three of those players you mention were brought in by old management right? and that the majority of our team on saturday, some good players, some bad, were brought in before winter arrived right?

hopefully winter mariner and co are going to be better than mo, but there's really no need to buy into the "old manager bad, new manager good" cliche quite so heavily.

Darlofletch
03-28-2011, 01:25 PM
On the Yourasowsky subject. I think we'll find that he'll be a very good additional as the year goes on. I was extremely impresed with his runs and his ability on the ball. He's that perfect LB we've been looking for.

There is no doubt he needs to tone it down, Winter doesn't strike me as someone who would let that shit go on for very long. Once he gets the cards out of his system I think he could very well be the best fullback we've ever had.

As for Martina, well, what else can be said that hasn't been said. He showed signs of being good in pre-season. He's now showing signs of being a great player for us for years to come.

agree about yourassowski, looked really good going forward, and was alright defensively, hopefully next week when he's suspended winter will see the benefit of playing a natural left back in that position and won't try to force one of the cb's there.

Martina, had a very good game, following an ok game against the whitecaps. The "talented, tricky but inconsistent winger" cliche may well be unfair, it's way too soon to tell yet, and hopefully it won't apply here, but i'm not going to get my hopes up too highly. he's shown he's got the talent, but plenty of other people have done that, let's hope he's got the drive to match it as well.

DangerRed
03-28-2011, 01:56 PM
From Cdn Soccer News. As they put it, this picture really sums up Gargan's performance:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=839&d=1301269018

Super Cereal
03-28-2011, 02:40 PM
On the Yourasowsky subject. I think we'll find that he'll be a very good additional as the year goes on. I was extremely impresed with his runs and his ability on the ball. He's that perfect LB we've been looking for.

There is no doubt he needs to tone it down, Winter doesn't strike me as someone who would let that shit go on for very long. Once he gets the cards out of his system I think he could very well be the best fullback we've ever had.

Agreed, well said.

ManUtd4ever
03-28-2011, 03:04 PM
Bob McCown is absent on Prime Time Sports today on the Fan590, and coincidentally, the TFC game was actually the leading topic with Damian Cox and Stephen Brunt. LOL

Pookie
03-28-2011, 03:50 PM
From Cdn Soccer News. As they put it, this picture really sums up Gargan's performance:



.... nice picture but really, is there any value in knocking a $40k/year player? We could cut him and replace him with another $40k/year player and we'd be back at the same point.

If you have a cap, you have to choose between buying expensive players (max cap hit guys) and then filling out the roster with bargains or aiming for middle of the road cap hits.

If folks want to rid the roster of the "Gargans" they need to take a serious look at the players that take up the bulk of the cap making the "Gargans" necessary.

--------

On the plus side, the roster we are building is full of youth. Outside of Bouchiba, Yourassowsky and Gordon, all of the players brought in are under 24 years old. Our oldest is 32 (De Rosario and Bouchiba).

The mid-field looks well positioned to grow into the future and ideally can learn from the experience and leadership of a De Guzman. And speaking of JDG, having a CMNT player who has succeeded in Europe can only be a good thing for the 8 Canadians we have that are under 24 years old.

Optimism for the future...

?

DangerRed
03-28-2011, 03:54 PM
.... nice picture but really, is there any value in knocking a $40k/year player? We could cut him and replace him with another $40k/year player and we'd be back at the same point.

If you have a cap, you have to choose between buying expensive players (max cap hit guys) and then filling out the roster with bargains or aiming for middle of the road cap hits.

If folks want to rid the roster of the "Gargans" they need to take a serious look at the players that take up the bulk of the cap making the "Gargans" necessary.



Surely you can't be serious. There's tons of value in knocking a player's poor performance, regardless of salary. We're sports fans, remember? In all seriousness, just because he makes $40K a year doesn't mean he gets a free pass for a couple of bullshit games in a row. I don't care if it's Gargan or D-Money, if they blow they should hear about it.

Nana and Cann, before the contract negotiations of late, were making comparable money ($60 tops, I believe?) and we let them hear it each time. Unless you're swooning from the Gargan fan favoritism that's gripping many around here, I think you're entirely entitled to criticize his performance.

Pookie
03-28-2011, 04:18 PM
... just because he makes $40K a year doesn't mean he gets a free pass for a couple of bullshit games in a row. I don't care if it's Gargan or D-Money, if they blow they should hear about it.


Sure. But when you are letting him "hear abou it" do you hold a $40k player to the same standard as you would a DP or other Max Cap player?

By nature of their contracts they have been assessed value, relative to their age, skills and expected contributions. If they weren't prone to mistakes they'd be paid more, wouldn't they?

The only reason a $40k player exists on a roster is because you've spent more money on the top end and can't spend any more.

Of course, you can look for maximum value at that $40k price point but realistically, for $40k, you want a guy who is going to come in and work hard for his minutes, not be a distraction and do what is asked. Gargan has done everything expected of him for the contract he was assessed at.

swan
03-28-2011, 04:59 PM
is he really making just 40k

DangerRed
03-28-2011, 05:07 PM
Sure. But when you are letting him "hear abou it" do you hold a $40k player to the same standard as you would a DP or other Max Cap player?

By nature of their contracts they have been assessed value, relative to their age, skills and expected contributions. If they weren't prone to mistakes they'd be paid more, wouldn't they?

The only reason a $40k player exists on a roster is because you've spent more money on the top end and can't spend any more.

Of course, you can look for maximum value at that $40k price point but realistically, for $40k, you want a guy who is going to come in and work hard for his minutes, not be a distraction and do what is asked. Gargan has done everything expected of him for the contract he was assessed at.

To me, the player you describe makes an excellent bench utility player. Using salaries as a determinant for criticism is silly when you look at someone like Wondolowski, who scored umpteen goals last season and was paid $48K. You think it's fair to describe him as the next Didier Drogba and that he should automatically get an EPL contract?

Of course not. But if you compare a Wondolowski against a Gargan and money was the only consideration in play, you're telling me you wouldn't make the trade in a heartbeat?

Regardless of your salary, you play in a league which demands a certain standard of play. If you fail to deliver on it, again, regardless of salary, you deserve to be criticized just as much as the guy making 10 times than you. That's all I'm saying.

ag futbol
03-28-2011, 07:17 PM
Regardless of your salary, you play in a league which demands a certain standard of play. If you fail to deliver on it, again, regardless of salary, you deserve to be criticized just as much as the guy making 10 times than you. That's all I'm saying.
Bingo.

Pookie
03-28-2011, 07:39 PM
To me, the player you describe makes an excellent bench utility player.

Which, generally speaking is what $40k buys you.

The Wondolowski example is the "outlier" in that salary range. Sure, you'll catch lightning in a bottle every now and then but on average, $40k players make $40k for a reason.

That said, the $40k player beat out other players for the roster spot so isn't immune from criticism. My point is that the criticism be fair. If fans expect this player to never be beaten, never make a bad pass, never make a poor decision, he's set up for failure. And if he was capable of that, he wouldn't be paid $40k.

However, like any player at any salary range, they can expect him to track back, hustle his arse off, be an option, be at training ready to go and support the team in positive ways.


Regardless of your salary, you play in a league which demands a certain standard of play. If you fail to deliver on it, again, regardless of salary, you deserve to be criticized just as much as the guy making 10 times than you. That's all I'm saying.

I don't dispute that. Clearly, there are other players who are willing to take his spot if he can't perform to a certain level.

I think the question is what is the "standard of play" to which you are going to measure him against?

The MLS is fairly unique in this regard. If you are running Man U or Chelsea, you can expect your starting 11 to the best in the EPL. There are no financial barriers, other than your comfort level with debt. So, go out and get the best. If the players you have aren't the best, sell them, get the best. They will naturally be paid accordingly as it will cost you to get them from other Clubs.

The measuring stick in the EPL, though subjective, is a lot easier to use. Value is a function of production/contribution.

In the MLS, your measure (or worth to your team) is a function of your production/contribution relative to your salary. A high performing low salary player (see, Attakora, Nana) is likely to be considered a "star" relative to other higher salaried, low performers (see, Garcia, Nick)

swss76
03-28-2011, 08:47 PM
i think frei should be a striker...that is all

Super
03-28-2011, 09:09 PM
i think frei should be a striker...that is all

Or at the very least an attacking midfielder.

nickio
03-29-2011, 02:37 AM
Holy crap, 40k a year?! A security guard nowadays makes more than that.. Wow..

How does he get to work? I mean... the poverty line in Toronto for a family of 4 is like $37000. I wonder if in the back of his head he's wishing he went to college for tool & die instead of this...

But money's not everything.

Nicholas982
03-29-2011, 09:28 AM
you do realise that three of those players you mention were brought in by old management right? and that the majority of our team on saturday, some good players, some bad, were brought in before winter arrived right?

hopefully winter mariner and co are going to be better than mo, but there's really no need to buy into the "old manager bad, new manager good" cliche quite so heavily.

Yes of course, I don't see why you'd assume I thought otherwise, based on what I wrote. I suppose you might have blended the two points I made together, regarding the better quality of new players that we're bringing in with the list I made that is, obviously, a mix of old and new.

DangerRed
03-29-2011, 09:59 AM
Which, generally speaking is what $40k buys you.

The Wondolowski example is the "outlier" in that salary range. Sure, you'll catch lightning in a bottle every now and then but on average, $40k players make $40k for a reason.

That said, the $40k player beat out other players for the roster spot so isn't immune from criticism. My point is that the criticism be fair. If fans expect this player to never be beaten, never make a bad pass, never make a poor decision, he's set up for failure. And if he was capable of that, he wouldn't be paid $40k.


I agree - but this isn't about Gargan making one bad pass. He's made a number of stupid giveaways over the last two games, costing us a goal in one and creating a prime scoring opportunity in the other, only to be bailed out by Frei.

I don't think I'm being unfair when I say Gargan is playing poorly right now.

Pachuco
03-29-2011, 10:19 AM
Which, generally speaking is what $40k buys you.

The Wondolowski example is the "outlier" in that salary range. Sure, you'll catch lightning in a bottle every now and then but on average, $40k players make $40k for a reason.

That said, the $40k player beat out other players for the roster spot so isn't immune from criticism. My point is that the criticism be fair. If fans expect this player to never be beaten, never make a bad pass, never make a poor decision, he's set up for failure. And if he was capable of that, he wouldn't be paid $40k.

However, like any player at any salary range, they can expect him to track back, hustle his arse off, be an option, be at training ready to go and support the team in positive ways.



I don't dispute that. Clearly, there are other players who are willing to take his spot if he can't perform to a certain level.

I think the question is what is the "standard of play" to which you are going to measure him against?

The MLS is fairly unique in this regard. If you are running Man U or Chelsea, you can expect your starting 11 to the best in the EPL. There are no financial barriers, other than your comfort level with debt. So, go out and get the best. If the players you have aren't the best, sell them, get the best. They will naturally be paid accordingly as it will cost you to get them from other Clubs.

The measuring stick in the EPL, though subjective, is a lot easier to use. Value is a function of production/contribution.

In the MLS, your measure (or worth to your team) is a function of your production/contribution relative to your salary. A high performing low salary player (see, Attakora, Nana) is likely to be considered a "star" relative to other higher salaried, low performers (see, Garcia, Nick)

Pookie, I don't why it is but every time I read your long winded posts it seems to me as though you really miss the point. You go on and on about Gargan's value at 40K. Listen I can make this real easy for you to understand. Gargan at 40K last year was playing much better then Gargan at 40K this year. Forget all this other stuff about 40k players and making comparison to other players. You have what you need right in front of you. Gargan is not playing up to the level we've come to expect from him. That's all I need to judge and criticize a 40k player.

By the way, you are also missing the other fact that Gargan may just simply not be good enough to play in Winter's system. So there is nothing to say that we can't find another 40K player who would play better under Winter.

I'm not giving up on him, but at this point he needs to start playing alot better.

Wull
03-29-2011, 11:09 AM
He needs moved back to midfield where he's more comfortable (although he'll be cover at best in that position too)

Pookie
03-29-2011, 11:09 AM
Gargan at 40K last year was playing much better then Gargan at 40K this year. Forget all this other stuff about 40k players and making comparison to other players. You have what you need right in front of you. Gargan is not playing up to the level we've come to expect from him. That's all I need to judge and criticize a 40k player.

And in all your glorious fairness you've seen him play in 2 games. One of which was a clean sheet.

Gargan had giveaways last year. He got beaten last year. Ah yes, but this year, in the 2 games he is not playing up the level you've come to expect from him?

Since you seem to favour simple, let's put it in simple terms. What is your objective criteria (this year and last)? How did Gargan, measure up to your objective criteria last year and where is he falling short in these 2 games, again vs your measurable objective criteria?

Barring this statistically significant assessment of his skills, you are simply presenting a subjective opinion on a player who is compensated at the league minimum through 2 games while playing a new system.

Or to put it in language you seem to prefer:

He may or may not be struggling against his former year's contribution. But in the end, of course he is going to be one of the "worst out there", that's why he paid what he is paid. Thanks for that contribution.

Pachuco
03-29-2011, 11:14 AM
And in all your glorious fairness you've seen him play in 2 games. One of which was a clean sheet.

Gargan had giveaways last year. He got beaten last year. Ah yes, but this year, in the 2 games he is not playing up the level you've come to expect from him?

Since you seem to favour simple, let's put it in simple terms. What is your objective criteria (this year and last)? How did Gargan, measure up to your objective criteria last year and where is he falling short in these 2 games, again vs your measurable objective criteria?

Barring this statistically significant assessment of his skills, you are simply presenting a subjective opinion on a player who is compensated at the league minimum through 2 games while playing a new system.

Or to put it in language you seem to prefer:

Of course he is going to be one of the "worst out there", that's why he paid what he is paid. Thanks for that contribution.

There you go again. Alot of blabber and you fail to miss the point once again. I have the right to say he's not playing up to his own standard. I don't need no ridicolous statistical analysis to prove that you. I thought he was a good player for us last year which is why I said I'm not giving up on him, but yeah, try again next time.

Too bad you didn't actually address any of my points, try reading before you reply.

Pookie
03-29-2011, 11:25 AM
Too bad you didn't actually address any of my points, try reading before you reply.

Before we get into a pissing match, let's just highlight where we are agreed:

- Gargan appears to be having some early season challenges
- His work ethic and energy appear to be consistent with last year
- While his salary is low, there are other $40k players who are after his job and should he continue to struggle, they should be given a shot

?

On the disagreement front:

- I have a hard time calling out a player, who by definition of his contract will make mistakes and be inconsistent. It seems unfair to ask him to be something he isn't paid to be... consistent.
- You are ok with holding him to the same standard you held for him last year

?

DangerRed
03-29-2011, 11:31 AM
- I have a hard time calling out a player, who by definition of his contract will make mistakes and be inconsistent. It seems unfair to ask him to be something he isn't paid to be... consistent.

I don't know how things go where you work, but generally speaking, when someone isn't performing up to snuff, regardless of whether they're paid $40K or $4 million, they get bumped off. Plain and simple.

But Pachuco and I aren't even talking about getting rid of him. All we're saying is that if this level of play continues, he should definitely be read the riot act and hear some harsh words in his "performance review" from his bosses, so to speak (Pachuco, correct me please if I'm misinterpreting you or reading too much into what you wrote).

You're talking about a player being above reproach for a shitty performance because of how little he's paid. That's like saying that at a hotel, if someone pukes all over the hallway and the janitor fails to clean it, it's alright, because he cleans up most of the other stuff and after all, he's just getting paid minimum wage. That's ridiculous.

Oldtimer
03-29-2011, 11:36 AM
In the MLS, your measure (or worth to your team) is a function of your production/contribution relative to your salary. A high performing low salary player (see, Attakora, Nana) is likely to be considered a "star" relative to other higher salaried, low performers (see, Garcia, Nick)

Very well put. Just like there is "value investing," MLS is a "value league." A good manager is always looking for that undervalued player that gives good return on his wages.


I don't know how things go where you work, but generally speaking, when someone isn't performing up to snuff, regardless of whether they're paid $40K or $4 million, they get bumped off. Plain and simple.



True. There is a bottom level of skill, after which it's not worthwhile to retain a player in MLS.

Pookie
03-29-2011, 11:43 AM
I
You're talking about a player being above reproach for a shitty performance because of how little he's paid. That's like saying that at a hotel, if someone pukes all over the hallway and the janitor fails to clean it, it's alright, because he cleans up most of the other stuff and after all, he's just getting paid minimum wage. That's ridiculous.

Not quite the analogy but 100% agreed that he isn't above reproach. As I stated above, there are other $40k players after his job and he needs to earn it.

But there is a reason I use the term "$40k player" as that is the cap situation we find ourselves in.

By having expensive players (JDG, DeRo) at the cap max, you make it necessary to bring in players that are inconsistent by nature. I can't criticize a guy for being inconsistent when that is what he is. I can expect him to be better than all other options at that price range though and hold him accountable to that.

So, to use your hotel example. There are many jobs in this hotel and they all need to function well for it to run smoothly. And at each job there are pay scales. So, you can get a Manager. The more you pay your manager, the more experience and skills he will have.

Same with your janitor. But since you have a budget, if you pay your manager the maximum, you might only be able to afford a janitor that doesn't have as much experience. You've got to make the numbers work.

So, having an inexperienced janitor means that sometimes, things won't get done as good or efficiently as they would with an experienced guy. You can fire him of course but you can only afford to bring in a guy at his pay scale.

Your other choice is to find an average priced Manager and average priced Janitor and run your business that way.

brad
03-29-2011, 11:43 AM
I don't know how things go where you work, but generally speaking, when someone isn't performing up to snuff, regardless of whether they're paid $40K or $4 million, they get bumped off. Plain and simple.

While I do agree with what you posted,. most companies don't place the same expectation on someone making $40k and 4 million, so this is a unique situation if we do.

At most places I've worked, and my colleagues and peers have worked there are different levels of the same jobs, with different salaries and different expectations.

DangerRed
03-29-2011, 12:01 PM
While I do agree with what you posted,. most companies don't place the same expectation on someone making $40k and 4 million, so this is a unique situation if we do.

At most places I've worked, and my colleagues and peers have worked there are different levels of the same jobs, with different salaries and different expectations.

At the risk of going in circles, this comes back to the minimum level of play that's expected. Yes, the expectations on a DP are higher than on a utility defender. No one is disagreeing there.

But there are certain things -- show up drunk for work, not show up at all, do not do your job inside specifications -- that no one can do, regardless of pay scale.

And for us as fans to suggest that management should take a good critical look at Gargan and the rest of the back four is hardly the most outlandish and insolent suggestion I've heard made on this board.

I think it's fair to criticize people like that (particularly as part of helping them improve, if you're the coach or the "manager" in our hotel scenario) and over time, if their performance doesn't improve, to replace them.

If the attitude is going to be, "we're only paying him $40K, so what do you expect?" then any player will never improve and we'll continue to suffer as a team (just as a company would on some level if this was a regular employee). Eventually, you have to say, "get better at your job or we're going to take our $40K to someone else who can."

Pookie
03-29-2011, 12:15 PM
Eventually, you have to say, "get better at your job or we're going to take our $40K to someone else who can."

Sometimes though, a company will look at their years of futility with their $40k base salary and the type of employee that it brings in. They might conclude that if they were to offer a higher base for that job type, they would attract better quality employees.

Of course, they might need to cut a higher paid "Manager" in the process in order to fund that base salary increase. But in the end, they might... I stress "might"... be better off.

DangerRed
03-29-2011, 12:16 PM
Sometimes though, a company will look at their years of futility with their $40k base salary and the type of employee that it brings in. They might conclude that if they were to offer a higher base for that job type, they would attract better quality employees.

Of course, they might need to cut a higher paid "Manager" in the process in order to fund that base salary increase. But in the end, they might... I stress "might"... be better off.

Pook, you're undoing your own argument. We're in a capped league, remember? Can't just arbitrarily decide that $40K is not good enough for someone better than Gargan, so let's go out and spend double that on a salary.

What they can do is say "we need to take a really hard long look at how we're spending this money and whether Gargan is the right way to spend it." That's more likely, and that's what leaves us better off.