Former NE Star Twellman tells TFC fans to be patient

[sashavukelich]

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/twellman-says-tfc-fans-should-be-patient

[Yeoman]

well no shit
if anyone goes out and starts to complain this season, i'm pistol whipping you

[Ossington Mental Youth]

start a whippin

[Roogsy]

Thanks for the obvious Twelleman. It's comfortable to say that from the perspective of someone who has not had to endure a shitshow for 5 seasons. We know we have to wait. What we will not accept is more delay due to incompetence or external factors other than a proper building of this team. If I hear of political infighting at TFC one more time, I will have a shit.

[McBrace]

Well I feel better now that he's set the record straight.

[rocker]

Twellman's comments sound about right.

Twellman sure knows patience.... with the concussions he's had to deal with.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

If I hear of political infighting at TFC one more time, I will have a shit.

only then?
Im not a doctor but you know youre in danger of a dangerous build up, holding it like that right?
:D

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

This smells like the MLSE spin machine at work again.

How much do they pay per use of the words rebuilding and patience when referring to TFC?

[Roogsy]

only then?
Im not a doctor but you know youre in danger of a dangerous build up, holding it like that right?
:D


:lol:

[Yeoman]

start a whippin

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll160/hospitalcop/SuperTroopers_coolchrism51.jpg

[SweetOwnGoal]

Guys...

It's not like Taylor Twellman called me up at night and started to talk TFC. This article is basically leftover quotes from my interview for the profile on Mariner.

He's one of the best MLS strikers of all-time. He's a current analyst for the league. He might have some insight that you or I don't have. Or he could be spinning for ML$E. I'll let you decide which seems more plausible.

Also, panicking right now to win 2-3 more games will doom this club to mediocrity forever.

[Yohan]

you mean mediocrity?

[SweetOwnGoal]

you mean mediocrity?

Yes. I sometimes make typos.

[Roogsy]

Also, panicking right now to win 2-3 more games will doom this club to meritocracy forever.

Oversimplification and exaggeration of people's reaction Duane. People don't want to win 2-3 games at the cost of rebuilding. We just don't want to be embarrassed like we were in Vancouver. Rebuilding isn't something that necessarily requires TFC to be the MLS bitch all year.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

im in the patient line, glad he speaking in favor, nice to have someone whos got nothing invested agree

[Whoop]

Didn't TFC thump FC Dallas 4-0 at BMO in the first season? LOL

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i know it was fathers day, cant remember what season it was

[SweetOwnGoal]

Oversimplification and exaggeration of people's reaction Duane. People don't want to win 2-3 games at the cost of rebuilding. We just don't want to be embarrassed like we were in Vancouver. Rebuilding isn't something that necessarily requires TFC to be the MLS bitch all year.

The back-line was God-awful in Vancouver. That said, one goal was offside and Toronto did manage two road goals. Within the context of MLS it wasn't *that* bad. I think those of us in the stadium walked away a little more upbeat than those that watched on TV because you could see a bit of what they were trying to do.

If this team good? God, no. Is this team hopeless? No, I don't think so and one road loss in Vancouver isn't the end of the world.

[McBrace]

i know it was fathers day, cant remember what season it was

2007 was it not?

[Technorgasm]

I wish more people would take my view about expectations for this team .. .

Score in every home game, win lose or draw.

results will come with stability, which we have never had. . ..

[ACSertL]

Didn't TFC thump FC Dallas 4-0 at BMO in the first season? LOL


i know it was fathers day, cant remember what season it was


2007 was it not?

Yeah it was the first season. Of all the games to give my tickets to Leo so he could take his family...

[Roogsy]

If this team good? God, no. Is this team hopeless? No, I don't think so and one road loss in Vancouver isn't the end of the world.

And nobody said it was the end of the world, but after a pre-season where most everyone agrees was Winter's time to tinker and thus we could not use those results as an indication of this team's ability, to then go into the first real test of the season and fail so miserably deflates everyone, especially against an opposition we really wanted to beat for various reasons, not the least of which is that it's an expansion side.

It may not be hopeless, but a couple of good passes shouldn't be reason to have hope either. We need to see something tangible that gives us hope. Having a team essentially get knocked out of a game halfway through isn't something that generates hope.

[BayernTFC]

im in the patient line, glad he speaking in favor, nice to have someone whos got nothing invested agree
I don't think there is anything wrong with giving things some time. I thought Twellman and Mariner were friends?:


Taylor Twellman played under TFC (http://www.torontofc.ca/)'s director of player development, Paul Mariner, for six full seasons when Mariner an assistant with the New England Revolution (http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/). He gives Mariner a lot of credit for helping him become the player that scored 101 goals in his MLS career.I certainly wouldn't characterize Twellman's comments as impartial. I found it a little bit odd for Twellman to go from this:


Twellman said that it’s “way too soon” to judge the work that Mariner and head coach Aron Winter have doneto this:


Twellman said that the new management team should be given three years to prove what they can do.One game is indeed way too soon to pass judgment. Taking 3 years to form an opinion is entirely too long. I think that asking fans to wait for 3 years is naive.


“You see it all the time in MLS where teams go through this three-year cycle from missing the playoffs to winning a championship,” he said.This is more of the same old crap that gets TFC into trouble. Championship in the near-term??? Sounds awful close to a promise.

[Roogsy]

:lol:

Well that's progress. From a 5 year plan we are down to a new 3 year plan.

So how about this TFC? I will be patient for 3 years if you can guarantee me a championship in 3 years? Deal?

[ochos]

I can't say I was in Vancouver, which must have been a tough pill to swallow for those who did go. But I will repeat my perspective in almost every thread - the same as how negative comments have become the norm the past couple years - that we really shouldn't jump the gun this time.

We clearly don't have the players needed to play the type of football Winter's implemented, and we have to be patient. I would rather see the team take a few more weeks, even months to figure things out, then heap the pressure on like in years past, like Leafs fans. We've seen teams struggle all year and miraculously click towards the end of the season to secure a playoff spot. The season is about endurance, not blowing all our marbles like we've done every year of our existence.

That being said, I do expect them to have a right go anytime they play at home. But I cannot stand the 'Leafs' mentality that exists within the supporters these days. Let's do this right this time.

[Whoop]

Let's do this right this time.

I agree.

I think people are just arguing whether it is being done right this time.

That's where the debate is. Some are saying yes and some are saying no.

We'll just have to see.

[Roogsy]

And then there are some of us that admit that we don't know if it's being done right. Which is why I have to give them time.

What I don't have to do is excuse a poor showing. Once again I emphasize, rebuilding does not mean we have to be absolute shit.

As long as we don't wind up lower than Vancouver and Portland in the standings, I personally will find it acceptable.

[ochos]

I agree.

I think people are just arguing whether it is being done right this time.

That's where the debate is. Some are saying yes and some are saying no.

We'll just have to see.

I think that touches upon an important issue as well - do good players want to play here? Certainly the damage was done in the past and there's no point in dwelling on it. Things take time, but I believe we can change the mentality of the fan base, which seems to lurk in every corner of the Toronto sport's arena like dark matter.

I honest to god am sick of "Leafs Nation" ruining everything good about Toronto sports. Enough is enough already..

[BayernTFC]

We clearly don't have the players needed to play the type of football Winter's implemented, and we have to be patient. I would rather see the team take a few more weeks, even months to figure things out, then heap the pressure on like in years past
Please don't assume that everyone is asking to see a Championship side in short order. Is it not management's job to sort out personnel? Who is responsible for the fact that TFC is currently so thin at the back? Who does one question when Dan Gargan and Ty Harden seem to win favour in an attempt to apply a 4-3-3 system?

Ideally an organization wants to follow through with a plan to the end. However, management must prove competent for that to happen. Like it or not, football is a business. After one season, Louis van Gaal looks like a genius. After the next, he's out. Bring on Jupp Heynckes!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

ya cant exactly say hes a mouth piece for the organization, he feels he owes alot to Mariner and believes that he can bring the same to TFC, once again, not a vested interest but an opinion

[Beach_Red]

And then there are some of us that admit that we don't know if it's being done right. Which is why I have to give them time.

What I don't have to do is excuse a poor showing. Once again I emphasize, rebuilding does not mean we have to be absolute shit.

As long as we don't wind up lower than Vancouver and Portland in the standings, I personally will find it acceptable.


No, we also have to finish ahead of the last true expansion team, Philadelphia.

[Roogsy]

I have given up on that. We have seen that other teams progress better than TFC. I will begrudgingly accept that. Otherwise, we'd have to beat San Jose and Seattle as well and that's a pipe dream.

[Yohan]

No, we also have to finish ahead of the last true expansion team, Philadelphia.
well, philly and SJ

[BayernTFC]

ya cant exactly say hes a mouth piece for the organization,
Sigh...I didn't


he feels he owes alot to Mariner and believes that he can bring the same to TFC,
You said it yourself.


once again, not a vested interest but an opinionSee your quote above. How much faith anyone puts in his opinion on this matter is their business.

[ManUtd4ever]

What if Vancouver pulls off a miracle like Chicago and wins the MLS Cup in their first year and TFC makes the playoffs and gets knocked out in the first round? Would that be considered a failure?

When people start coming up with subjective benchmarks for success, they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

What constitutes progress for TFC this year? In my mind, it should be measured by the level of progress at the end of the season, regardless of how TFC measures up against any particular club. If TFC consistently improves on the pitch throughout the season, our record will take care of itself.

[Derko]

:lol:

Yes I think you should 'Breath in and out very slowly' and you will relieve the tension or have a few of these: :drinking::drinking::drinking::drinking::drinking:

[Oldtimer]

:lol:

Well that's progress. From a 5 year plan we are down to a new 3 year plan.

So how about this TFC? I will be patient for 3 years if you can guarantee me a championship in 3 years? Deal?

3 year plan is a savings of 2/5 years or 40%. That's a significant savings!!!

http://assets.thefiscaltimes.com/TFT2_20101228/App_Data/MediaFiles/6/C/8/%7B6C8BD99A-D700-458C-B649-635B60FBC742%7D03242010_Accountant_visor_article.j pg

[Roogsy]

What if Vancouver pulls off a miracle like Chicago and wins the MLS Cup in their first year and TFC makes the playoffs and gets knocked out in the first round? Would that be considered a failure?

When people start coming up with subjective benchmarks for success, they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

What constitutes progress for TFC this year? In my mind, it should be measured by the level of progress at the end of the season, regardless of how TFC measures up against any particular club. If TFC consistently improves on the pitch throughout the season, our record will take care of itself.


"Level of progress" automatically means a comparison against other teams. Because what other measure do you have to take a level? That we play a nicer brand of football?

How we do against other teams IS the ultimate measure of progress. If we wind up in last spot or 2nd last spot on the table, any argument of "progress" this year will be laughable.

And by the way, if Vancouver wins the MLS Cup this year it will simply reinforce the errant belief that 5 or 3 or 2 year plans are necessary to build a competent squad in this lead. It will only confirm that off-season due diligence is what ultimately leads to results the next season which is what I personally believe.

[TFCRegina]

Thanks for the obvious Twelleman. It's comfortable to say that from the perspective of someone who has not had to endure a shitshow for 5 seasons. We know we have to wait. What we will not accept is more delay due to incompetence or external factors other than a proper building of this team. If I hear of political infighting at TFC one more time, I will have a shit.

Have you cleaned out your pants yet? ;)

[Roogsy]

Have you cleaned out your pants yet? ;)


:lol:


Startinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng NOW!

[rocker]

And by the way, if Vancouver wins the MLS Cup this year it will simply reinforce the errant belief that 5 or 3 or 2 year plans are necessary to build a competent squad in this lead. It will only confirm that off-season due diligence is what ultimately leads to results the next season which is what I personally believe.

Forget TFC for a second, if Vancouver wins the MLS Cup in year 1, what does that say about the other 16 teams?

It would mean that every other team's plan, whether short term or long term, failed in achieving the ultimate goal. So talking about 5,3, 2 or 1 year plans would be irrelevant. Only one team can win the cup, so only 1 team's plan will ever be a total or complete success.

[ManUtd4ever]

"Level of progress" automatically means a comparison against other teams. Because what other measure do you have to take a level? That we play a nicer brand of football?

How we do against other teams IS the ultimate measure of progress. If we wind up in last spot or 2nd last spot on the table, any argument of "progress" this year will be laughable.

And by the way, if Vancouver wins the MLS Cup this year it will simply reinforce the errant belief that 5 or 3 or 2 year plans are necessary to build a competent squad in this lead. It will only confirm that off-season due diligence is what ultimately leads to results the next season which is what I personally believe.

In my mind "level of progress" has nothing to do with a head to head comparison with any particular club. It relates to the state of the organization when the new management regime took over compared to the state of the organization at the end of the season. Plain and simple.

As for timelines, it's been made abundantly clear that the new regime wasn't hired to try and provide a quick fix, but to build an infrastucture that will yield a competitive club for years to come. In my mind, that justifiably requires more time.

[Whoop]

Forget TFC for a second, if Vancouver wins the MLS Cup in year 1, what does that say about the other 16 teams?

It would mean that every other team's plan, whether short term or long term, failed in achieving the ultimate goal. So talking about 5,3, 2 or 1 year plans would be irrelevant. Only one team can win the cup, so only 1 team's plan will ever be a total or complete success.

And as is the nature of sports, with the win now mentality, instead in believing in your own plan, the next step is throw out your plan and copy the winner's.

That's why in the NHL teams starting copying the New Jersey Devils (even though teams were forgetting the Devils had probably the greatest goaltender in the history of the sport), why MLB teams starting copying the Oakland A's (even though teams were forgetting Oakland had 3 of the best pitchers in the game when they were winning), and why now NHL teams are trying to mimic teams like Pittsburgh and Chicago with their "rebuilding" premise.

It comes down to 1) having a plan, 2) believing in your plan and 3) being allowed to implement your plan.

But the most important part is having the right plan.

[Pookie]

How in the heck does anyone have "expectations" for this team? I'm talking about fact based expectations not those pulled from one's arse.

The players are new to each other. Except for a few youtube clips here and there, a good majority of the players are relatively new to us as well. Hell, I can't wait for the PA announcement of the names at BMO on Saturday as we all strain to read and pronounce them correctly.

The system is new to everyone and we haven't seen how their current progress with it matches up against teams with varing degrees and positions of strength.

And speaking of their opponents, how do you have a logical conversation about what you expected to happen in Vancouver without an understanding of their line up and tactics?

All put together, you are welcomed to your expectations but words like hope, want and deserve have no basis in a fact based assessment of where we are and where we will be.

[Roogsy]

In my mind "level of progress" has nothing to do with a head to head comparison with any particular club. It relates to the state of the organization when the new management regime took over compared to the state of the organization at the end of the season. Plain and simple.



I am sorry my friend but "state of the organization" is such a vague and generally immeasurable concept (and thus unaccountable) that they can pretty much do anything and call it "progress". It is under those conditions that we had to endure Mo for 4 years.

[Roogsy]

It comes down to 1) having a plan, 2) believing in your plan and 3) being allowed to implement your plan.

But the most important part is having the right plan.


Ah but that is key. How did any of us know that Mo did not have the right plan until well into his horrible reign?

This kind of carte blance permission is a russian roulette. It absolutely depends on whether you have made the right decision and if you have, you achieve success. If you haven't...you don't just lose one season, you lose many seasons.

IF we have made the wrong choice with Winter...(which none of us know much like we didnt know with Mo) we could reasonably be looking at Season 8 or 9 of TFC having never made the playoffs.

Who here would be happy with that?

[BayernTFC]

As for timelines, it's been made abundantly clear that the new regime wasn't hired to try and provide a quick fix, but to build an infrastucture that will yield a competitive club for years to come. In my mind, that justifiably requires more time.
Yes, and management should expect that they will have to show progress on the medium-term and long-term goals along the way even when some of those goals aren't likely to be reached within 3 years. With that being said, management has specific duties and responsibilities for the current squad. If management isn't coping well with core responsibilities now, don't expect things to magically correct themselves in the future. It's time for TFC management to stop searching for excuses to use as a crutch.

[Whoop]

I am sorry my friend but "state of the organization" is such a vague and generally immeasurable concept (and thus unaccountable) that they can pretty much do anything and call it "progress". It is under those conditions that we had to endure Mo for 4 years.

There are intangibles that can't are immeasurable. That's why I don't trust Anselmi.

Barring a disaster or an unmitigated success, does he have the requisite knowledge to determine whether or not progress has been made behind the scenes or with the academy if the results on the pitch are indifferent?

[Whoop]

Ah but that is key. How did any of us know that Mo did not have the right plan until well into his horrible reign?

This kind of carte blance permission is a russian roulette. It absolutely depends on whether you have made the right decision and if you have, you achieve success. If you haven't...you don't just lose one season, you lose many seasons.

IF we have made the wrong choice with Winter...(which none of us know much like we didnt know with Mo) we could reasonably be looking at Season 8 or 9 of TFC having never made the playoffs.

Who here would be happy with that?

Ah... but there were those who when Mo was hired were stating to be careful because he was a snake and a bad guy. I remember that all the way back in year 1.

But he was hired because he had the necessary MLS experience.

And when rumblings by year 2 and year 3 that things weren't right behind the scenes (unhappy players, scouting trips to Brazil, coaching carousel), he comes back for a 4th year?

I mean people were calling for Mo's head when TFC didn't win the Voyageurs Cup in 2008. So in essence, about a year and a half in people were saying Mo wasn't the right guy for the job. And he still stayed on for another 2 years.

Yes, as supporters we don't want to go through another aimless 4 years, but surely Winter and Mariner deserve some benefit of doubt.

The question then becomes how long?

Personally, I'm willing to give him at least a year and a bit, barring the team going 0-34.

[ManUtd4ever]

I am sorry my friend but "state of the organization" is such a vague and generally immeasurable concept (and thus unaccountable) that they can pretty much do anything and call it "progress". It is under those conditions that we had to endure Mo for 4 years.

Let me clarify. I'm referring to a change of culture around the team, a talented young nucleus, stable management, etc. Utilizing numbers is not a clear reflection of progress in of itself.

For example, you and I actually predicted the exact same record for TFC this season in the prediction thread of 12-10-12. If TFC has a slow start to the season, starts to build momentum at the midway point, and has a strong finish to arrive at that record, I would view that as a successful season with an optimistic outlook for next year.

However, if TFC surprises us out of the gate, compiles a winning record by mid summer, struggles down the stretch (as in years past), and ends the season on a losing note with the same record, it poses a different outlook for the future.

[Oldtimer]

I mean people were calling for Mo's head when TFC didn't win the Voyageurs Cup in 2008. So in essence, about a year and a half in people were saying Mo wasn't the right guy for the job. And he still stayed on for another 2 years.

Yes, as supporters we don't want to go through another aimless 4 years, but surely Winter and Mariner deserve some benefit of doubt.


There were a few that called for his head after the second or third game. That was premature, but surely if not in 2008, he should have been gone by 2009 season's end.

[Beach_Red]

Ah but that is key. How did any of us know that Mo did not have the right plan until well into his horrible reign?




No expansion team should ever start with inexperienced guys in charge. His "plan" had to include building an organization from scratch, not just putting players on the field - two things he had no experience with. Had he ever negotiated a single player contract or signed a single coach before being given the job to build an entire team? Who makes that kind of hire?

So, MLSE must have felt they had the upper management in place to take care of the organizational structure - the same guys who are still in place.

This team needs a president. Until then it'll always be scrambling from one half-implemented plan to another.

[Auzzy]

The back-line was God-awful in Vancouver. That said, one goal was offside and Toronto did manage two road goals. Within the context of MLS it wasn't *that* bad. I think those of us in the stadium walked away a little more upbeat than those that watched on TV because you could see a bit of what they were trying to do.

If this team good? God, no. Is this team hopeless? No, I don't think so and one road loss in Vancouver isn't the end of the world.

Yeah, defense (& defensive help from the MF) was bad in Vancouver, but I'm not panicking either.

However, the fourth Vancouver goal was not offside. Or at least not obviously offside, the way the refs are supposed to call it now. Definitely not "meters offside" as some have suggested. Here's the questionable pass:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5264/5548524101_36e3656390.jpg

[ExiledRed]

well, philly and SJ

Why SJ? Theyre no more an expansion team than we are at this point.

[Yohan]

Why SJ? Theyre no more an expansion team than we are at this point.
SJ also had to start from scratch like Philly

[J .]

Fuck that.

The expectation should be to win.

[Roogsy]

Let me clarify. I'm referring to a change of culture around the team, a talented young nucleus, stable management, etc. Utilizing numbers is not a clear reflection of progress in of itself.

For example, you and I actually predicted the exact same record for TFC this season in the prediction thread of 12-10-12. If TFC has a slow start to the season, starts to build momentum at the midway point, and has a strong finish to arrive at that record, I would view that as a successful season with an optimistic outlook for next year.

However, if TFC surprises us out of the gate, compiles a winning record by mid summer, struggles down the stretch (as in years past), and ends the season on a losing note with the same record, it poses a different outlook for the future.

I should clarify my prediction which was made before Saturday's game. It was done assuming certain things. It was done assuming Winter would know not to put Cann at left back. It was done assuming we'd get reinforcements this year. It was done assuming TFC's backline wasn't going to be an absolute joke.

At this point, I am nowhere near confident in my prediction. I may start beginning to agree with the Power Ranking columnists who peg TFC to have a real chance of winding up near the bottom.

I see what you are saying about momentum, but both your examples point to a team that contends, that competes and that does not wind up at the bottom even though they have different types of seasons.

Neither of those situations can lead to a bottom-dwelling year which is what some have suggested might occur while we "rebuild" and yet should remain positive. No sir...

[ManUtd4ever]

I should clarify my prediction which was made before Saturday's game. It was done assuming certain things. It was done assuming Winter would know not to put Cann at left back. It was done assuming we'd get reinforcements this year. It was done assuming TFC's backline wasn't going to be an absolute joke.

At this point, I am nowhere near confident in my prediction. I may start beginning to agree with the Power Ranking columnists who peg TFC to have a real chance of winding up near the bottom.

I see what you are saying about momentum, but both your examples point to a team that contends, that competes and that does not wind up at the bottom even though they have different types of seasons.

Neither of those situations can lead to a bottom-dwelling year which is what some have suggested might occur while we "rebuild" and yet should remain positive. No sir...

I agree with you. I never said finishing in last place would represent progress. I believe that even if TFC has a slow start, the team will improve throughout the season, and our record will take care of itself. I think our roster is too talented on paper to be one of the worst teams in the league.

[ExiledRed]

I agree with you. I never said finishing in last place would represent progress. I believe that even if TFC has a slow start, the team will improve throughout the season, and our record will take care of itself. I think our roster is too talented on paper to be one of the worst teams in the league.

On paper, the team that Mo initially put together had the best midfield in the league, the "Canadian Shield" in defence and proven goalscorers up front.

[ensco]

On paper, the team that Mo initially put together had the best midfield in the league, the "Canadian Shield" in defence and proven goalscorers up front.

That team, in May/June 2007, once Mo had worked through the Braz/Reda thing, and brought in Dichio, Marshall and Cunningham, but before the injuries struck, that was maybe the best lineup in our history. Close to it, anyway.

[TFCRegina]

That team, in May/June 2007, once Mo had worked through the Braz/Reda thing, and brought in Dichio, Marshall and Cunningham, but before the injuries struck, that was maybe the best lineup in our history. Close to it, anyway.

Our best line up was in 2009.

[Heathen]

It amazes me the incredibly low standards some of you have set for this season, no wonder MLSE have been asleep at the helm for 4 years. I don't expect an MLS Cup or even the play-offs but I'm amazed that people are writing off 2011 as a rebuilding year. With two extra spots available, we should still be challenging for the play-offs and we should sure as hell still be in the hunt a lot later than we were last season.

[jazzy]

well no shit
if anyone goes out and starts to complain this season, i'm pistol whipping you

Lucky, you've obviously have not been reading the post van game thread.........lots of aggressive negative, bores.....you'll need a magnum......lol

[TOBOR !]

This season will be a roller-coaster ride of 4-2 losses and 5-0 wins. I'm just stoked that we have a plan in place, and one that includes the development of our academy players to fit into that system.

I don't know how long it should take before we see improvement, for now I just want to see progress, and it's early days yet.

[Juanito]

What I personally want from this team is to be entertained. Two games, and they were both entertaining. I believe that the wins will come and if they continue to work hard and play "small ball", they will make the play-offs.

Last year, when we were in third place, I was bored. I actually yawned a few times watching matches at home because I hated the dreaded "Preki-ball".

I pay good money to be entertained, and that in the end, is all that matters to me.