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ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 01:11 PM
Are our players getting the additional $$$ they should get for these extra matches? How does this work?

Are they paid for appearances, or does minutes played have fuckall to do with it? Will they get more money for reaching the playoffs, or do they get rewarded with a long holiday at the same pay if they miss them?

What about Superliga, Concacaf, friendlies?

What motivates the players if the crowd can't? Is this just another job to them?

This is important, because when my workload is doubled but my pay remains the same, I lose motivation and my productivity declines. What's worse is when I do awesome, and Im expected to cover everybodies elses arse because Im a good worker and they suck, yet the pay doesnt change.

Can somebody enlighten me on how these additional games work in terms of salary?

Roogsy
07-02-2008, 01:14 PM
I would hope so...otherwise, management has overlooked a major issue in motivating the team to play. If they aren't getting more money to play in these tournaments, then it's in their interest not to be in them. I don't think they'd be silly enough to overlook that especially a former player like Mo.

kelzag
07-02-2008, 01:15 PM
Good question. I'd like to know too.

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 01:16 PM
Well somethings obviously wrong, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it.

Is it the money? Is it the coach? is it us?

What fucking motivates them, and more importantly what UN-motivates them?

blackandwhite
07-02-2008, 01:16 PM
women!!! :)

kelzag
07-02-2008, 01:22 PM
women!!! :)

So do they need hookers? Works for Ronaldo. :D

Fixed. My bad. I definitely do NOT need a hooker!

Broadview
07-02-2008, 01:23 PM
This isn't money related but in regards to motivation it seems to me like the team plays better when they're shooting toward the south end. Or the other team plays worse. Anyone else ever notice this?

So hows about replacing the beer garden with another intimidating/inspiring supporters section for the good of the team performing?

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 01:24 PM
^^They played shit in all directions yesterday.

egoodwin
07-02-2008, 01:26 PM
not too sure if it's really accurate or not, but TFC seemed to pick up their play when we were singing Forza TO in NE

Roogsy
07-02-2008, 01:26 PM
You guys remember the move Major League? Where the manager gets a cardboard cutout of the nasty owner and peels off a piece of clothing after each win?

Well...I would volunteer to model but I am less than sexy... ;) LOL!

Billy the kid
07-02-2008, 01:27 PM
Not sure if they get extra compensation, you would hope they get some small bonus atleast for winning those extra tourneys. Hopefully in the case of the reserve team, holding onto their job longer would motivate too.

blackandwhite
07-02-2008, 01:27 PM
So do we need hookers? Works for Ronaldo. :D
I don't know about what YOU need. I think it's time Lombi shares his phonebook!!

Billy the kid
07-02-2008, 01:29 PM
A lifetime supply of Nutralite bars for winning Canadian championship might sweeten the pot a bit.

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 01:30 PM
Not sure if they get extra compensation, you would hope they get some small bonus atleast for winning those extra tourneys. Hopefully in the case of the reserve team, holding onto their job longer would motivate too.

So they could be playing in Nicaragua for free?

ridiculous if you think about it.

TicTacTabarnack
07-02-2008, 02:53 PM
Bragging Rights? Some Hardware to start filling the empty Vault?

ensco
07-02-2008, 07:07 PM
This has long been a contentious issue in Europe. Most of the focus is on how the clubs are paid, and how they are insured for their players. Exiled's question is a subset of this - how do the clubs share what they get with their players?

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/15012008/58/champions-league-g-14-disbanded.html

Something tells me you have a better chance of getting President Bush' personal cellphone number than you do finding out the details you're looking for. Great question though.

But here's a partial guess:

The gate for this game (19,000 people at an average of $40/ticket) was about $750,000. Say FIFA skims $100,000K, and the CSA skims $50,000 (I'm just making these up, someone who knows something could chime in). The expenses of putting on the match (staff, referees etc) was another $50,000. That leaves About $550,000 for the teams. Say the Whitecaps get $100,000 (this would be generous, as TFC's share of the Swangard take will be nowhere near as high). That leaves $450,000 for TFC. They have two home games so that's $900,000. Add a bit for their share of the road gate and that's an even $1 million to the team for 4 games.

Say the team keep 40% and leave 60% for the players and coaches. That's $150,000 per game for 18 players and 4 coaches. If the reserves aren't cut in, and the pot's split evenly (that's two more big questions), that's $7,000 per player, which seems fair in the context of most players making $100-200K ($3-7K/game) for a 30 game MLS season.

AL-MO
07-02-2008, 07:25 PM
This isn't money related but in regards to motivation it seems to me like the team plays better when they're shooting toward the south end. Or the other team plays worse. Anyone else ever notice this?

So hows about replacing the beer garden with another intimidating/inspiring supporters section for the good of the team performing?


This is rather obvious man. They always play better, because they are coming towards the loudest strongest sections in the stadium. Why do you think Liverpool wants to go towards the Kop in the second half?

rocker
07-02-2008, 07:40 PM
Say the team keep 40% and leave 60% for the players and coaches. That's $150,000 per game for 18 players and 4 coaches. If the reserves aren't cut in, and the pot's split evenly (that's two more big questions), that's $7,000 per player, which seems fair in the context of most players making $100-200K ($3-7K/game) for a 30 game MLS season.

I wonder tho if guys are paid any extra.....
When they sign an MLS contract they get their set pay, and that's it outside of performance bonuses/appearance fees/travel pay, according to the CBA.

They are contracted to play up to 48 games in a season incl. exhibition games, regular season, and playoff games. But special tourneys like these don't count in that total. The players are awarded "prize money" for tournaments that they win or make it near the finals.
I would think MLS would be very wary of teams paying their players extra for anything, to be honest.

Blazer
07-02-2008, 07:48 PM
Well somethings obviously wrong, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it.

Is it the money? Is it the coach? is it us?

What fucking motivates them, and more importantly what UN-motivates them?

Winning motivates athletes bro. Everything beyond that are elements to motivate but winning comes first. Did it matter when Mom or Dad told you that you played well and everyone including the coach were cheering for you when you hit your first bases loaded double to the gap ? No, because you still lost the game. Winning is everything.

noochie
07-02-2008, 07:52 PM
Winning motivates athletes bro. Everything beyond that are elements to motivate but winning comes first. Did it matter when Mom or Dad told you that you played well and everyone including the coach were cheering for you when you hit your first bases loaded double to the gap ? No, because you still lost the game. Winning is everything.

Agreed as long as it isn't expected all the time. Losing is a part of winning and some people who demand perfection are setting themselves up for some serious disappointment or failure.

Blazer
07-02-2008, 07:52 PM
So what motivates winning then? The camaraderie that you share and feelings of intense motivation brought upon by a group of guys that care about one another and want to succeed. Athletes play for their teammates before themselves – or at least they should. When you look at the other guy in the eye before the game start and see his passion and desire to leave everything out on the field, court, pitch, what have you.

Blazer
07-02-2008, 07:54 PM
When winning is achieved you look to continue in that direction. It’s only upon losing that you want those feelings of triumph again and strive for it not because individually you want to win but because you want it for the other guys.

noochie
07-02-2008, 07:56 PM
^^ I am not sure if that was directed at me but I agreed with you. All that I am saying is wanting to win is different than expecting to win, furthering your point (or attempt to). Expecting breeds arrogance and overconfidence and leads to big drop-offs in production. Wanting to win is what I think you are referring to in your last post.

Blazer
07-02-2008, 08:38 PM
^^ I am not sure if that was directed at me but I agreed with you. All that I am saying is wanting to win is different than expecting to win, furthering your point (or attempt to). Expecting breeds arrogance and overconfidence and leads to big drop-offs in production. Wanting to win is what I think you are referring to in your last post.

I tend to agree with you but I think there needs to be a level of expectation when it comes to winning. I don’t necessarily subscribe to the theory that expecting to win breeds overconfidence so much as regular winning or winning streaks can lead to cockiness. A good coach will point out all weakness during victory and will draw upon successes during losses and periods of lagging team morale. I’m assuming Carver does this what with his experience in managing.

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 09:01 PM
^ I really am just interested in the financial aspect of this, as opposed to idealistic concepts such as 'the urge to win'

If you've already had a good career and your just earning a paycheque, why would you want to bust your arse and slash months off your holidays, when there is no financial incentive to do so?

Don Julio
07-02-2008, 09:39 PM
It would seem to me that if the team IS allowed to compensate players for these games, friendlies, and future Champions' League games then it would be a terrific opportunity for a rich team, like TFC, to circumvent the salary cap.

And as such, I expect, that the team is either not allowed to provide additional compensation, or the compensation is based on a fixed and frugal scheme designed by the league.

If there's no compensation it really makes you feel for some schmuck getting paid $50K a year on LA getting dragged around the world playing 100 games a year so the team can pay Beckham. And, yes, I'm aware that there may not be anyone on LA making exactly $50K and that they don't play 100 games, but you get the idea.

james
07-02-2008, 09:46 PM
well the club winner of superLiga gets $1 million in prize money......whether the players see any of that money im not sure!

MFBODD
07-02-2008, 09:58 PM
So do they need hookers? Works for Ronaldo. :D


And apparently it doesn't matter if they're women or not for Ronaldo!!


Winning alone should be motivation enough and that's the way it is in a perfect world, but not the one we live in. Many players in other leagues don't get paid for "playoff" games and the revenue generated is simply gravy for the ownership. I don't get it. If the boys can't take these matches seriously what are they doing in sport? If they manage to qualify for the first stage of the Champions League (and if they don't it'll be more embarrassing than what happened Saturday) they will be facing stiffer competition. Make it past the 1st stage and you better bring your 'A' game big time. You may have noticed that MLS teams didn't make it to the last Champions Cup. The clubs in this tournament don't exactly suck