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jloome
03-23-2011, 06:13 PM
TFC "Has been shopping DeRo for a while" according to Twitter feed on Soccer By Ives right now.

Apparently a rumour has him going back to Houston.

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2011, 06:15 PM
Huh?

Dave67
03-23-2011, 06:16 PM
Could see DeRo wanting to retire in Houston a lot more than he would want to retire in Toronto. Also, is anyone in pro sports not for sale?

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2011, 06:18 PM
It's not a rumour, just a suggestion...

http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves



Lots of rumblings today about Houston making a big move. How about a DeRosario return to Houston? Pure speculation, but could work. about 3 hours ago (http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves/status/50621987483156481) via TweetDeck (http://www.tweetdeck.com/)

Yohan
03-23-2011, 06:19 PM
^Ryan Giggs?

Nuvinho
03-23-2011, 06:22 PM
Also Robbie Rogers has asked for a trade from the crew. He submitted a list of teams he would like to go to.

ag futbol
03-23-2011, 06:24 PM
It's not a rumour, just a suggestion...

http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves

I think he's referencing this one:

@cboehm TFC shopping DeRo for a while, Houston could use attacking player, has depth to trade. Makes sense
about 1 hour ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® in reply to cboehm

If true, it is what it is but at the same time I expect something to replace him (not in the form of another Nick Sooslma).

TFCRegina
03-23-2011, 06:24 PM
I've heard that some clubs have inquired about De Ro.

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2011, 06:29 PM
I think he's referencing this one:

@cboehm TFC shopping DeRo for a while, Houston could use attacking player, has depth to trade. Makes sense
about 1 hour ago via Twitter for BlackBerry® in reply to cboehm

If true, it is what it is but at the same time I expect something to replace him (not in the form of another Nick Sooslma).

@cboehm is apparently some random guy named Charles Boehm and doesn't seem to be any type of credible source within sports journalism. I'm pretty sure this is all BS...

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 06:30 PM
id be pretty amazed if he went anywhere, why would he go? would MLS give him the DP money he wants elsewhere? doesnt make sense

ensco
03-23-2011, 06:32 PM
why would he go?

Because he hates the FO here?

TFCtoMUFC
03-23-2011, 06:36 PM
Also Robbie Rogers has asked for a trade from the crew. He submitted a list of teams he would like to go to.

Any idea if we are on this list? Robbie Rogers seems like a pretty good player, young guy and could do well here.

swan
03-23-2011, 06:40 PM
id be pretty amazed if he went anywhere, why would he go? would MLS give him the DP money he wants elsewhere? doesnt make sense

because he is hated by most fans here for one thing..


not me though..

scut farkus
03-23-2011, 06:45 PM
@cboehm is apparently some random guy named Charles Boehm and doesn't seem to be any type of credible source within sports journalism. I'm pretty sure this is all BS...

That tweet was by Ives to cboehm, so it is credible.

cboehm's original tweet: http://twitter.com/cboehm/status/50640204607913984
Ives's response: http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves/status/50642710608084992

I think it's all speculation though. Ives's even said to CallItFootball that it was only an idea.

trane
03-23-2011, 06:46 PM
^ You realy think that he is hated by most Fans. He got shit on this board, but hated by most fans, I would not think so. I am asking what you think, not realy strongly disagreeing, it is just not how I read it.

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2011, 06:46 PM
I think the fan sentiment regarding DeRo is far more positive among the casual fan base.

TFC_4_Life
03-23-2011, 06:47 PM
This would be worst move possible. As much as many have become disgruntled with DeRo and his off field antics he is still consistently the best player on the pitch for us. He scores out of nowhere. I don't see another individual player doing as much for us as him. He's my fav player to watch on the team, continually being creative on the pitch.

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2011, 06:49 PM
This would be worst move possible. As much as many have become disgruntled with DeRo and his off field antics he is still consistently the best player on the pitch for us. He scores out of nowhere. I don't see another individual player doing as much for us as him. He's my fav player to watch on the team, continually being creative on the pitch.

DeRo's not going anywhere anytime soon, especially in a trade to another MLS club.

swan
03-23-2011, 06:49 PM
^ You realy think that he is hated by most Fans. He got shit on this board, but hated by most fans, I would not think so. I am asking what you think, not realy strongly disagreeing, it is just not how I read it.

i don't have contact with fans out side of RPB so i get it from this board and i see most people on here with a hate on for him.. just what i see..

BayernTFC
03-23-2011, 06:50 PM
Any idea if we are on this list? Robbie Rogers seems like a pretty good player, young guy and could do well here.
Well, if the rumours can be believed, I'm not sure a list matters to Columbus management:


COLUMBUS, Ohio – Despite widespread speculation, the Columbus Crew (http://www.thecrew.com/) are not actively trying to trade Robbie Rogers (http://www.mlssoccer.com/player/robbie-rogers), the team confirmed on Wednesday, and will not entertain any offers unless they are presented with what technical director Brian Bliss termed "a heck of a deal."


But the Crew TD said he is not proactively looking to deal Rogers, and scoffed at reports that the midfielder has submitted a list of teams to whom he would like to be traded.


“If there’s a trade, it’s not his choice where he goes,” he said. “It’s whatever the best deal is for the club. Right now there is no deal, and as I said before to the one or two teams that did inquire, ‘We weren’t necessarily shopping the player around, but your offer better be pretty good.’


“I am not pursuing it,” he said. “He has one more year on his contract and I would love for him to stay in Columbus. I would love for him to try hard and if nothing’s positive, go from there.”
Bliss said it doesn’t make sense to trade Rogers without getting “comparable value.” When asked if Rogers still has value, Bliss said his play in the DC game proved he does.


“His energy, his attacking mentality, his aggressive mentality was reminiscent of the Robbie of the past,” Bliss said. “Why all of a sudden would we want to give that away? He may not have started, but does that mean he’s not going to start in 75 percent of the games this year? It’s awful difficult then to just part with the guy.”
Warzycha said he is not sure of Rogers is trying to force a trade but does not think his player will be a distraction to the team.



Rogers’ status for Saturday is unclear. Because of a death of a friend he may return to California, but Warzycha said late Wednesday that Rogers would be at practice Thursday. His weekend plans were still undecided.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/bliss-warzycha-say-rogers-not-trading-block

swan
03-23-2011, 06:53 PM
i'm gonna ask a dumb question so don't make fun of me but how do you get so many quote's in your post..
:blush:

BayernTFC
03-23-2011, 06:57 PM
i'm gonna ask a dumb question so don't make fun of me but how do you get so many quote's in your post..
:blush:
Just keep pressing the quote tags icon ( http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/redbar/editor/quote.gif), or type the quote tags yourself, and place what you want to be quoted between them. You can use quote tags more than once. The only dumb question is the one that goes unasked.

swan
03-23-2011, 06:58 PM
thanks

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 06:58 PM
Because he hates the FO here?

does he really hate the FO or the fact that Mo shafted him and the MLS wont give him what he wants?

DOnt see how itd be better elsewhere especially as he'd be a small fish in a small pond (re: commercials etc), where as here he can do that ish

DOMIN8R
03-23-2011, 06:59 PM
A L L O C A T I O N +++++ please.

Roogsy
03-23-2011, 07:00 PM
DeRo's not going anywhere anytime soon, especially in a trade to another MLS club.

I don't think things are that certain. The relationship right now is severely strained and if it does not improve soon could be unfixable.

There are clubs that are interested.

BayernTFC
03-23-2011, 07:01 PM
thanks
:thumbsup:

Kooper
03-23-2011, 07:03 PM
A L L O C A T I O N +++++ please.

Allocation money is temporary, draft picks and prospects for foreve- ok not forever but for the future.

Kooper
03-23-2011, 07:05 PM
^Ryan Giggs?

Paul Scholes

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2011, 07:07 PM
I don't think things are that certain. The relationship right now is severely strained and if it does not improve soon could be unfixable.

There are clubs that are interested.

I understand that the relationship is strained because of false promises made by previous management. However, I don't see how DeRo would benefit financially by being traded to another MLS club. A trade is highly unlikely unless Winter wanted to move him, and DeRo was willing to play elsewhere based on his existing contract value. It doesn't sound logical.

BayernTFC
03-23-2011, 07:25 PM
@cboehm is apparently some random guy named Charles Boehm and doesn't seem to be any type of credible source within sports journalism. I'm pretty sure this is all BS...
It's a comment by Ives Galarcep directed @ Charles Boehm


@cboehm (http://twitter.com/cboehm) TFC shopping DeRo for a while, Houston could use attacking player, has depth to trade. Makes sense about 1 hour ago (http://twitter.com/SoccerByIves/status/50642710608084992) via Twitter for BlackBerry® (http://blackberry.com/twitter) in reply to cboehm (http://twitter.com/cboehm/status/50640204607913984)
http://twitter.com/soccerbyives



It's on Ives Galarcep's twitter page and was posted from Ives' blackberry in reply to cboehm.




A trade is highly unlikely unless Winter wanted to move him, and DeRo was willing to play elsewhere based on his existing contract value. It doesn't sound logical.
Well according to Ives, Winter et al are trying to move him. If it was about where DeRo wanted to play, methinks he'd be in Glasgow right about now. ;)

McBrace
03-23-2011, 07:25 PM
If it does happen, I hope to fuck they have a player to replace him lined up straight away. The beginning of the season is when we need to cash in on points..

Kooper
03-23-2011, 07:33 PM
If it does happen, I hope to fuck they have a player to replace him lined up straight away. The beginning of the season is when we need to cash in on points..

Agreed we have like 4 home games in July, August and September combined.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 07:36 PM
I understand that the relationship is strained because of false promises made by previous management. However, I don't see how DeRo would benefit financially by being traded to another MLS club. A trade is highly unlikely unless Winter wanted to move him, and DeRo was willing to play elsewhere based on his existing contract value. It doesn't sound logical.


yep fail to see how DeRo would benefit in moving to another team, the league still decides on raising his pay or not, unless im missing something and the teams can pay over his salary without making him a DP (yet again a MLS decision)

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 07:37 PM
thats not to mention the fact that hes making money doing commercials with local businesses that i highly doubt he'd be able to do else where

DOMIN8R
03-23-2011, 07:38 PM
Allocation money is temporary, draft picks and prospects for foreve- ok not forever but for the future.

I don't agree.

My proposal is as much as we can hope for, I suspect, at his present contract value. If we come up just shy of 500K (or salary equivalent) + significant allocation = reasonable expectation.

Future draft picks = gamble.

Sorry, but after 4 years of uncertainty I'm only interested in the absolute.

Kooper
03-23-2011, 07:41 PM
I don't agree.

My proposal is as much as we can hope for, I suspect, at his present contract value. If we come up just shy of 500K (or salary equivalent) + significant allocation = reasonable expectation.

Future draft picks = gamble.

Sorry, but after 4 years of uncertainty I'm only interested in the absolute.

The certainty is that MLSE will end up paying for some of his salary.

DigzTFC!
03-23-2011, 07:45 PM
Here's what I dont' get. If DeRo is all about money, who is advising him on his life after soccer. I wouldn't buy anything he's associated with at this point or be apart of his charities. He's a 2-4 years away from retiring and this is his behavior in the market that he could make the most long term money. Whether or not this is legit, his reputation has taken a huge hit and his long term earning potential

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 07:46 PM
ill be amazed if he moves and is signed on for bigger money elsewhere, mostly cuz i dont know how it would happen without the league giving in to him

Yohan
03-23-2011, 07:48 PM
even if someone picks up DeRo, TFC would probably have to give some allocation money to whoever, b/c they don't want to use DP spot on DeRo?

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 07:49 PM
damn, dude must be a huge cancer if thats the case

Thrillos
03-23-2011, 07:50 PM
He has nothing wrong with players or Winter, he's pissed at the runaround he's been given from the MLSE

DOMIN8R
03-23-2011, 07:51 PM
The certainty is that MLSE will end up paying for some of his salary.

Yeah. You are probably right. sigh

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 07:51 PM
interesting.
question is can he really get a better deal elsewhere?
and how would that deal come about?
also isnt the majority of that Mo?

scooter
03-23-2011, 07:54 PM
this has been beat to death but dero has made his own bed and will have to lie in it

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 07:56 PM
outside of leaving MLSE because Mo promised him things and he didnt get it, i kinda feel like hes cutting off his nose to spite his face. Please feel free to fill me in (if anyone can) what he'd stand to gain from leaving. I honestly dont know/understand.

Beach_Red
03-23-2011, 08:00 PM
interesting.
question is can he really get a better deal elsewhere?
and how would that deal come about?
also isnt the majority of that Mo?

Who knows who had the final say at TFC all along? When DeRo was traded from Houston he held out for a couple weeks, remember? Who knows who got involved in the negotiations from MLSE? They do own four professional sports teams and negotiate hundreds of player contracts every year, they should know what their employees are "promising." And the whole Celtic mess should have been cleared up in a day, no matter who was handling it for TFC.

It might be better for everyone if he moved on. TFC should then be able to take his cap space, add a couple million bucks and sign a DP the league approves.

Thrillos
03-23-2011, 08:03 PM
Who knows who had the final say at TFC all along? When DeRo was traded from Houston he held out for a couple weeks, remember? Who knows who got involved in the negotiations from MLSE? They do own four professional sports teams and negotiate hundreds of player contracts every year, they should know what their employees are "promising." And the whole Celtic mess should have been cleared up in a day, no matter who was handling it for TFC.

It might be better for everyone if he moved on. TFC should then be able to take his cap space, add a couple million bucks and sign a DP the league approves.

Toronto is run by a bunch of idiots (the FO not Mariner and Winter) and not in contact with the rest of MLSE in any way. DeRo held out only to ultimately decide on coming here because of what he was promised by the one and only Mo. He wants out because he was fucked over, plain and simple.
oh and apparently he has about 600k on our salary

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 08:10 PM
so he doesnt care if he gets paid more, he just wants to leave?

RedsYNWA
03-23-2011, 08:38 PM
I wish he would just go away and end this shit for good

swan
03-23-2011, 08:41 PM
so he doesnt care if he gets paid more, he just wants to leave?


where did it say he wanted to leave i thought it was tfc want to trade him..

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 08:45 PM
its nothing certain but Thrillos has been suggesting it for a bit


where did it say he wanted to leave i thought it was tfc want to trade him..


Toronto is run by a bunch of idiots (the FO not Mariner and Winter) and not in contact with the rest of MLSE in any way. DeRo held out only to ultimately decide on coming here because of what he was promised by the one and only Mo. He wants out because he was fucked over, plain and simple.
oh and apparently he has about 600k on our salary

Blowing Bubbles
03-23-2011, 08:47 PM
Allocation money is temporary, draft picks and prospects for foreve- ok not forever but for the future.

allocation allows you to build a roster well above the salary cap since you can keep buying down cap hits .... makes it a lot easier to field 3 DP's.

but you raise a good point - TEMPORARY.

It would be great if you had a situation where you could constantly churn out allocation money yearly by selling on some of your guys (from the academy) and then just ditching your draft picks for more allocation $.

the thing is, allocation is such a quirky and vague and shady excercise that lacks transparency .... with all the extra "massaging" such as getting free allocation if you have a shitty year that I think if you set out to exploit the allocation game The Don would fuck you.

swan
03-23-2011, 08:55 PM
its nothing certain but Thrillos has been suggesting it for a bit


well because 1 guy on this board feels dero wants it doesn't make it true.. if you see or here him say it then np but it hasn't come out of deros mouth that he wants out at least to the media..

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 08:59 PM
Yeah man I know but like several other dudes on here they've given more good info then not

Oldtimer
03-23-2011, 08:59 PM
I can't believe that no one has mentioned that DeRo's family is in Houston, or at least was the last time that I heard.

Probably both want a Houston trade, should they be able to cut a deal.

Roogsy
03-23-2011, 09:09 PM
DeRo has not asked for a trade so let's not go down that road of assumptions and Houston is not the only possible location if he does leave.

Unlike Toronto, other teams recognize his value and how he can help them succeed in the playoffs.

Since Toronto is unlikely to get into the playoffs for the foreseeable future, quite frankly I wouldn't mind seeing him go to a contender and a more professional organization where he won't be upset with how they treat all players, not just himself.

Roogsy
03-23-2011, 09:12 PM
I have not asked. But I will be honest...I wouldn't want to. His homecoming has been ruined. Not much keeping him here. TFC certainly aren't making it attractive to stay.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 09:14 PM
Sorry, deleted my question as I didn't think it was relevant after you expanded on your post.

For people that didn't see it, I asked if DeRo wanted to stay

Roogsy
03-23-2011, 09:15 PM
And considering today's weather...I'd have to question anyone wanting to stay! :D

j/k

Suds
03-23-2011, 09:16 PM
DeRo has not asked for a trade so let's not go down that road of assumptions.

Agreed. We need to get some reality back in here. All we have is a tweet and a response. That's all.

Could TFC be shopping DeRo? Sure, teams shop players all the time to get an idea of their worth in the market. It does not always mean they will make a deal.

Besides, DeRo has done nothing other than be a model player since training camp started. Hell, as someone who took issue with him in the off season I'm willing to cut him some slack. There is no indication DeRo has asked for a trade.

ManUtd4ever
03-23-2011, 09:20 PM
At this point, this entire topic is hypothetical. The original source for this thread, Yves Galarcep, stated as such.

Winter has stated several times that DeRo is a vital part of his plans moving forward so it's highly unlikely TFC is shopping him.

DeRo has never requested a trade, only a raise, which TFC is willing to provide within the confines of MLS regulations. I don't foresee another MLS club being able to exceed the offer that has already been extended to him by TFC.

Roogsy
03-23-2011, 09:35 PM
It's not entirely hypothetical I assure you. Unfortunately, there are many folds to this story and not all of it can make it out into the public. Suffice to say Ives was indeed simply throwing an idea out there, but there is a reason why DeRo's name was used.

ArmenJBX
03-23-2011, 09:42 PM
Like it or not, De Rosario is vital for TFC right now. He's still our prime goalscorer.
I pray we keep him. Honestly, let's just give him the DP money already, it's not like we're using it, and if we do manage to find a big name, we have a third DP spot already.

All this fuss over a salary raise which would put him level on some of the cheapest leafs players we have. MLSE can afford it for sure, just make the man happy.

Yohan
03-23-2011, 09:54 PM
Like it or not, De Rosario is vital for TFC right now. He's still our prime goalscorer.
I pray we keep him. Honestly, let's just give him the DP money already, it's not like we're using it, and if we do manage to find a big name, we have a third DP spot already.

All this fuss over a salary raise which would put him level on some of the cheapest leafs players we have. MLSE can afford it for sure, just make the man happy.
clearly you missed the memo that it's MLS FO in the way of giving DeRo DP status

Dave67
03-23-2011, 09:55 PM
^^ Why? If we are building a team for the future, building through our academy, why is a 32 year old player vital to us? Mild entertainment for an otherwise brutal upcoming year?

ArmenJBX
03-23-2011, 10:11 PM
clearly you missed the memo that it's MLS FO in the way of giving DeRo DP status

I have a good feeling that Toronto FC isn't doing much to persuade them otherwise. It's more like

MLSE: Hey De Ro, whats up
De Ro: Raise please?
MLSE: I'll ask

MLSE: Can I give De Rosario DP?
MLS: Well....we don't really do that sort of thing
MLSE: Oh, okay, so we dont have to give up more money for him because you said no, right?
MLS: I guess so..
MLSE: Perfect! :)

MLSE: Sorry, no can do.
De Ro: Baww :(

Kyle_121
03-23-2011, 10:21 PM
Ok, let's assume DeRo is going. How can we also get rid of JDG? :D

ag futbol
03-23-2011, 10:25 PM
^^ Why? If we are building a team for the future, building through our academy, why is a 32 year old player vital to us? Mild entertainment for an otherwise brutal upcoming year?
Not to open this old argument again, but if you look at it purely from a salary cap perspective, having a guy on 400k + against the cap as opposed to giving him a DP spot (that will free up 200k in cap space) is stupid. Especially if you weren't going to use that DP spot for the immediate future.

This complete ignores the other aspect of things (like what this does to future negotiations with players) but IMO make sense if you did if for minimal money. Dero gets a 50k raise, TFC gets 200k in cap space.. win?

Blowing Bubbles
03-23-2011, 10:44 PM
This complete ignores the other aspect of things (like what this does to future negotiations with players) but IMO make sense if you did if for minimal money. Dero gets a 50k raise, TFC gets 200k in cap space.. win?

Human beings are not rational.

If I'm DeRo (and definitely his agent) I'm not settling for a 50k raise for TFC to get 200k cap space. Why should I do you a solid like that for very little reward on my end?

You could argue that he should be happy with a $1 raise because it's $1 he wasn't going to have otherwise ..... but there is a certain spite factor that makes humans irrational.

This has been demonstrated in "the impunity game" and various other types of tests at univs.

Obviously I don't know any of the goings on and a couple of posters do so my speculation could be clearly wrong but my thinking is this - it makes sense for DeRo to be shooting for 1.7 million or something stratospheric to get MLSE into a mindset of "settling" at like 900+ or whatever.

Accepting a token bump up to 500k does not appear to be in his or his agents playbook.

The trouble becomes if it starts spilling over to the team - you could argue on one hand if this thing starts coming off the rails we're going to reach an endgame, either Dero gets traded or they give in and pay him. He has nothing to lose at that point (except playing in Toronto if it means something to him that can't be quantified by money). In a way he benefits from us sucking.

This is where the front office (not Winter - the "suits") once again are failures. It was apparent to all that this was a rebuilding year --- how the hell can we go into the season with DeRo in limbo?

Either you pay him his money so he shuts the fuck up and is a happy boy or you trade him. Having him disgruntled during a rebuild doesn't do him or the team or the fanbase any favours.

Guys like Anselmi piss me off to no end. They get to a certain level within organizations that all that can happen to them is to fail upwards or get let go with a ridiculous severance.

Waggy
03-23-2011, 11:36 PM
I have a good feeling that Toronto FC isn't doing much to persuade them otherwise. It's more like

MLSE: Hey De Ro, whats up
De Ro: Raise please?
MLSE: I'll ask

MLSE: Can I give De Rosario DP?
MLS: Well....we don't really do that sort of thing
MLSE: Oh, okay, so we dont have to give up more money for him because you said no, right?
MLS: I guess so..
MLSE: Perfect! :)

MLSE: Sorry, no can do.
De Ro: Baww :(

MLS has had this stance since the DP rule came into being. Dero is not the first domestic player to be denied DP status and he won't be the last. It's part of how MLS runs. TFC has 1/19th to do with it, and lobbying wouldn't change the situation. Either way it's a moot point since that's all in the past.

I'm not surprised Dero wants a trade, I'm not surprised TFC wants to trade him. I'd be very surprised if another team offers TFC anything palatable for Dwayne thanks to his making it very clear to every team in the league that TFC basically has to move him, and his insistence on removing any leverage TFC would have had trying to move him had all this happened behind closed doors. That said I could see the FO getting sick and tired of dealing with the headache and taking 50 cents on the dollar for Dero. And personally, I would not be too upset about it.

rocker
03-24-2011, 12:17 AM
Not to open this old argument again, but if you look at it purely from a salary cap perspective, having a guy on 400k + against the cap as opposed to giving him a DP spot (that will free up 200k in cap space) is stupid. Especially if you weren't going to use that DP spot for the immediate future.

This complete ignores the other aspect of things (like what this does to future negotiations with players) but IMO make sense if you did if for minimal money. Dero gets a 50k raise, TFC gets 200k in cap space.. win?

Why would they get 200K in cap space from that?

DPs are 335K against the cap, or so I thought.

What am I missing?

boban
03-24-2011, 12:28 AM
Why would they get 200K in cap space from that?

DPs are 335K against the cap, or so I thought.

What am I missing?
Isn't the first 2 DP are 400,000 against the cap and the third is 200,000 against the cap.
Something like that.

TFCRegina
03-24-2011, 12:31 AM
Isn't the first 2 DP are 400,000 against the cap and the third is 200,000 against the cap.
Something like that.

325k against the cap actually, not sure about the 3rd. But you have to pay cash for it.

Brooker
03-24-2011, 12:51 AM
I can't believe that no one has mentioned that DeRo's family is in Houston, or at least was the last time that I heard.

Probably both want a Houston trade, should they be able to cut a deal.

I saw him and his family grocery shopping in Oakville.... FWIW.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-24-2011, 05:53 AM
325k against the cap actually, not sure about the 3rd. But you have to pay cash for it.

yep think its 250k

Section 110
03-24-2011, 06:51 AM
This would be worst move possible. As much as many have become disgruntled with DeRo and his off field antics he is still consistently the best player on the pitch for us. He scores out of nowhere. I don't see another individual player doing as much for us as him. He's my fav player to watch on the team, continually being creative on the pitch.

Agreed!

Barry Bonds is a selfish prick but he won numerous awards and gave his team a fighting chance every year. DeRo offers the same. Love him, hate him, he's the best we've got, and he's still one of the best in the league. We'll miss him when/if he goes.

maninb
03-24-2011, 08:24 AM
IMO the FO and coaching staff will see how things progress for a month or two before making a decision...if he turns out to be a cancer and plays like it, then he'll be out of here VERY VERY QUICKLY...If he stays healthy and plays well, then his value will go UP as the season progresses...He's good enough to be the difference in just making the playoffs (TFC won't be close) or havign a Championship run for some other team..

JonO
03-24-2011, 08:31 AM
Why would they get 200K in cap space from that?

DPs are 335K against the cap, or so I thought.

What am I missing?


325k against the cap actually, not sure about the 3rd. But you have to pay cash for it.


yep think its 250k
Each Designated Player counts $335k towards the cap. In order to get the third DP slot, you have to pay $250k to the league (which is distributed as allocation money to all teams that do not have a 3rd DP)

Dave67
03-24-2011, 08:40 AM
Like it or not, De Rosario is vital for TFC right now.



Not to open this old argument again, but if you look at it purely from a salary cap perspective, having a guy on 400k + against the cap as opposed to giving him a DP spot (that will free up 200k in cap space) is stupid. Especially if you weren't going to use that DP spot for the immediate future.

Actually I was just wondering why Dero should be considered 'vital' to TFC right now. If TFC keep him then I agree, give him the money and move on.

If TFC could trade him away for a couple of younger prospects or for a solid younger player then I think that is a move to make. If TFC are going with a youth movement and building through the academy then Dero will probably be ready for retirement by the time TFC start seriously challenging for league titles.

Pookie
03-24-2011, 09:00 AM
I wouldn't doubt they are answering the phone and he is clearly still annoyed at the contract.

That said, if he gets moved, on his current contract, does his mood improve? Remember that MLS holds his contract and they've stated he is on an appropriate contract for a player of his talents.

I wonder if he is traded, I wonder what stance he will take. A contract renegotiation doesn't necessarily mean that he would want more money. He could, in theory, suggest that the remaining Club Option year be removed and he could gain "free agent" status next year.

It would be a gamble at his age to think that he could fetch more on the open market (considering again that MLS holds ALL contracts in the league) and I wonder if he is willing to take it.

mdc 77
03-24-2011, 09:08 AM
Because he hates the FO here?

Not that i ever want to defend MLSE, but wouldn't that be the past front office he hates?

Who knows, maybe Anselmi made promises to him but from everything we've heard it was Mo.

Roogsy
03-24-2011, 09:17 AM
^^ Why? If we are building a team for the future, building through our academy, why is a 32 year old player vital to us? Mild entertainment for an otherwise brutal upcoming year?


Vital if what we want during our rebuild is a relatively competitive team. If you're saying this rebuild has to be a period of absolute suckitude, I'd have to disagree.

As someone wisely put it to me yesterday, he's our only "game-changer".

Beach_Red
03-24-2011, 09:24 AM
That said, if he gets moved, on his current contract, does his mood improve?


Who cares, it's someone else's problem then.

For TFC it would mean the opportunity to sign another DP. It would be a great chance to make a real statement about the future of the team, to sign someone, even very late in their career, who exemplifies this new "style" we're supposed to be implementing. A big complaint here has been that TFC lacks "veteran leadership," and this is the chance to get some.

denime
03-24-2011, 09:25 AM
Vital if what we want during our rebuild is a relatively competitive team. If you're saying this rebuild has to be a period of absolute suckitude, I'd have to disagree.

As someone wisely put it to me yesterday, he's our only "game-changer".

True

cmonyoureds
03-24-2011, 09:30 AM
They already have all the renewals they're gonna get, ticket sales will be down, concession sales will be down, if they have a chance to dump salary to improve net revenue's they'll take a serious look.

Don't forget, this could be spun as "rebuilding" "going in a new direction" "changing the atmosphere" "freeing up $'s for the next rumor signing" etc. etc. etc.

parma
03-24-2011, 09:31 AM
Best player hands down on the team and his play in Vancouver shows how he is able to focus on the task at hand and not let other distractions affect his play. Don’t care about how he is as a person (within reason) I am not asking to be his friend, perform on the pitch…how many adored athletes for their athletic prowess were jerks off the field (not saying Dero is)…man does his job at a high level for sure

ManUtd4ever
03-24-2011, 09:38 AM
Vital if what we want during our rebuild is a relatively competitive team. If you're saying this rebuild has to be a period of absolute suckitude, I'd have to disagree.

As someone wisely put it to me yesterday, he's our only "game-changer".

Agreed. The only scenario in which trading DeRo makes sense for TFC is if another MLS club is is willing to part with a great young player, which isn't likely to happen.

Therefore, he's under contract with TFC for 2 more years, he is still our primary offensive weapon, and he is talented and mobile enough to provide some excitement on the pitch while Winter tries to build a competent club around him.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-24-2011, 09:39 AM
Who cares, it's someone else's problem then.

For TFC it would mean the opportunity to sign another DP. It would be a great chance to make a real statement about the future of the team, to sign someone, even very late in their career, who exemplifies this new "style" we're supposed to be implementing. A big complaint here has been that TFC lacks "veteran leadership," and this is the chance to get some.

Bouchiba has shown a bit of leadership as well and im curious to see if thats brough to the field

menefreghista
03-24-2011, 09:52 AM
How has Bouchiba shown leadership? Because the TFC propaganda department wrote an article that he's a leader?

Ossington Mental Youth
03-24-2011, 10:21 AM
ok, i guess your correct, let me put it this way,
hes an older experience player who seems to have an inclination to speaking his mind, as a result we may see him become a leader on the field.

for the record using the word propaghanda is ridiculous, this isnt war, this isnt Mugabe or big brother we are talking about

menefreghista
03-24-2011, 10:24 AM
Its just a joke.

Would PR department have been PC enough for you? Or how about official team apologist?

Seems to be working though, building up a players leadership ability despite not really earning it.

Beach_Red
03-24-2011, 10:25 AM
^ Oh, it's Big Brother all right ;).

But I meant a guy with an international reputation who's played at the highest levels. There's been a lot of talk about how the new management is bringing in a new attitude and a new "culture" and it might not be a bad idea to have a big symbolic move from ownership to show how serious they are about that. It's about more than just on field performance.

Roogsy
03-24-2011, 10:25 AM
Its just a joke.

Would PR department made you happier?

Seems to be working though, building up a players leadership ability despite not really earning it.


Sounds like propaganda to me? :D

Ossington Mental Youth
03-24-2011, 10:31 AM
Would PR department have been PC enough for you? Or how about official team apologist?.

yes, pc enough for me, perfect :rolleyes:

maninb
03-24-2011, 10:33 AM
"The only scenario in which trading DeRo makes sense for TFC is if another MLS club is is willing to part with a great young player, which isn't likely to happen."

True, but like I said previously if DeRo plays well and is healthy his value goes UP CONSIDERABLY towards the end of the season...If a team thinks he'd push them over the top towards a championship they certainly would be willing to give a very good prospect now...

West220Side
03-24-2011, 11:02 AM
"The only scenario in which trading DeRo makes sense for TFC is if another MLS club is is willing to part with a great young player, which isn't likely to happen."

True, but like I said previously if DeRo plays well and is healthy his value goes UP CONSIDERABLY towards the end of the season...If a team thinks he'd push them over the top towards a championship they certainly would be willing to give a very good prospect now...

Hainault can play leftback i believe:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

ElvistheEvilScotsman
03-24-2011, 11:08 AM
The only way Dero is leaving on a trade is if the coaching staff wants him out because he's cancer in the locker room or Dero needs a change of scenery (get away from the lying bastards at MLSE).

Recognizing that regardless of if he stays in Toronto or not he'll make the same amount of money in North America for the next two years he's pretty much backed into a corner whereby he really just needs to focus on his football and hope that someone from outside of MLS comes knocking. If this is the frame of mind he is in it will be great for us. Hopefully he sticks around past the July transfer window but if not hopefully he has put us in a great position to make the playoffs and we can find a decent replacement to fuel a playoff push or build for 2012.

Yohan
03-24-2011, 11:28 AM
Hainault can play leftback i believe:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
he can play all 3 defence positions

Mattsp71
03-24-2011, 02:51 PM
"The only scenario in which trading DeRo makes sense for TFC is if another MLS club is is willing to part with a great young player, which isn't likely to happen."

True, but like I said previously if DeRo plays well and is healthy his value goes UP CONSIDERABLY towards the end of the season...If a team thinks he'd push them over the top towards a championship they certainly would be willing to give a very good prospect now...

The rumor is that Robbie Rogers wants out.

McBrace
03-24-2011, 03:00 PM
I don't want Dero playing for the Crew, do you?

Yohan
03-24-2011, 03:01 PM
I don't want Dero playing for the Crew, do you?
frankly, I don't care, as long as the trade is worth it

jojoflow
03-24-2011, 03:53 PM
oh I hope they dont trade him away
he scores goals TFc needs that

I dont care about the check thing every player has a brain fart and does something without thinking about it, it was in the moment his play on saturday proved his skills
wait till he gets to know his new teammates last year he gave a few of o. white's goals on a silver plater

rocker
03-24-2011, 04:01 PM
trading De Ro to the Crew? Isn't that considered cruel and unusual punishment?

Sullivan
03-25-2011, 05:48 PM
Two RUMOURS:

Passing along, fwiw, one of my MLS prozone contacts commented that a ProZone "PlayBack" for DeRo is not only in demand, but in circulation. Only 8 MLS teams have ProZone (TFC, Vancouver, KC, RSL, DC, Krew, Rapids & the Fire.

And then there is this one from folks I know in New England, allegedly, it's a current MLS 1st XI type player and allocation money that opens the door to DeRo talks.

boban
03-25-2011, 05:49 PM
trading De Ro to the Crew? Isn't that considered cruel and unusual punishment?
Why? Because they actually win the Cup once in while?

arbogast
03-25-2011, 06:30 PM
Two RUMOURS:

Passing along, fwiw, one of my MLS prozone contacts commented that a ProZone "PlayBack" for DeRo is not only in demand, but in circulation. Only 8 MLS teams have ProZone (TFC, Vancouver, KC, RSL, DC, Krew, Rapids & the Fire.

And then there is this one from folks I know in New England, allegedly, it's a current MLS 1st XI type player and allocation money that opens the door to DeRo talks.

That second one is intersting. Shalrie Joseph maybe? He seems like someone who could use a change of scenery given his substance abuse issues and a trade for Dero could placate NE fans from losing their franachise player. Could be a win win.

But Duane Rollins is reporting on ICF today that LAG is actively trying to make a deal for him and is expecting Dero gone in the next two weeks.

ArmenJBX
03-25-2011, 06:35 PM
De Rosario for Landon Donovan :|

I'd die of pure bliss and shock

TFC07
03-25-2011, 06:35 PM
That second one is intersting. Shalrie Joseph maybe? He seems like someone who could use a change of scenery given his substance abuse issues and a trade for Dero could placate NE fans from losing their franachise player. Could be a win win.

But Duane Rollins is reporting on ICF today that LAG is actively trying to make a deal for him and is expecting Dero gone in the next two weeks.

Angel for DeRo? :D

DeRo wants DP money; LAG has used up all their DP's. Since TFC lacks a striker, this could be a deal TFC might accept if offer by LAG.

arbogast
03-25-2011, 07:03 PM
Angel for DeRo? :D

DeRo wants DP money; LAG has used up all their DP's. Since TFC lacks a striker, this could be a deal TFC might accept if offer by LAG.

What I don't get with the LAG interest, is why they'd want Dero? Juninho is 22 and has been a great attacking mid for them and he's way cheaper. I immediately thought Dero for Angel too, but he's not a winger and he's not a CF so I don't know how he'd fit in to the new formation. Maybe Donovan but I can'r see that either as he's such a big part of that club. Fak this saga just gets muddier.

ManUtd4ever
03-25-2011, 07:03 PM
I just listened to the latest It's Called Football podcast, and it was mentioned that DeRo may or may not have been shopped around the league to gauge his value on the open market.

However, the consensus of the panel was that even if he is available, MLS clubs aren't likely to meet TFC's asking price in a trade, nor would it be likely that any MLS clubs could/would pay DeRo a DP salary.

It sounds like speculation to me. Even if there is some validity to the rumor, I can't envision a viable transaction that will satisfy all parties involved, because of all the variables at play.

I think DeRo is staying put for a while...

arbogast
03-25-2011, 07:05 PM
I just listened to the latest It's Called Football podcast, and it was mentioned that DeRo may or may not have been shopped around the league to gauge his value on the open market.

However, the consensus of the panel was that even if he is available, MLS clubs aren't likely meet TFC's asking price in a trade, nor would it be likely that any MLS clubs could/would pay DeRo a DP salary.

It sounds like speculation to me. Even if there is some validity to the rumor, I can't envision a viable transaction that will satisfy all parties involved, because of all the variables at play.

I think DeRo is staying put for a while...

That was the concensus after speaking to Ives, but Duane did make a clear indication that LAG is in the hunt and looking for a way to make it happen.

ArmenJBX
03-25-2011, 07:07 PM
They're probably putting in a report of all the offers De Rosario will ever receive, to show him his value is less (or perhaps even more) than what he believes so firmly.

In that case, let's assume that, oh, New England give us the best offer, and offer de Rosario 700k. Toronto says, well, "Here's 750" take it or there's New England.

Blowing Bubbles
03-25-2011, 07:12 PM
^ Chicago on that list of ProZone teams jumps out at me as a team that might want to do it.

They issued a challenge to Sector8 - Sell 800 season tickets and we'll pay for an away trip for all 800 of you to Columbus

.... they hit 800 season tix last night!

That to me sounds like a front office looking to keep their fanbase and a bit worried about slippage .... and they've spent money before.

Lizzy
03-25-2011, 07:25 PM
Angel for DeRo? :D

DeRo wants DP money; LAG has used up all their DP's. Since TFC lacks a striker, this could be a deal TFC might accept if offer by LAG.

Really? Is Angel a DP? I thought his salary was mostly allocation money and he wasn't.

kaos197O
03-25-2011, 07:46 PM
^ Chicago on that list of ProZone teams jumps out at me as a team that might want to do it.

They issued a challenge to Sector8 - Sell 800 season tickets and we'll pay for an away trip for all 800 of you to Columbus

.... they hit 800 season tix last night!

That to me sounds like a front office looking to keep their fanbase and a bit worried about slippage .... and they've spent money before.
Perhaps, but it is also reported that they will wear armbands this weekend to honour their supporters and an online post, that a deceased supporter made months before dying on the pitch himself, called "Stand and Deliver".

It's a great read!

Here is the article http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago-fire-confidential/2011/03/stand-and-deliver-commemorated.html

Here is the Post by said supporter. http://www.soccerpubs.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=19602

cmonyoureds
03-25-2011, 09:10 PM
^ Chicago on that list of ProZone teams jumps out at me as a team that might want to do it.

They issued a challenge to Sector8 - Sell 800 season tickets and we'll pay for an away trip for all 800 of you to Columbus

.... they hit 800 season tix last night!

That to me sounds like a front office looking to keep their fanbase and a bit worried about slippage .... and they've spent money before.

WHOAH, that deserves a thread of it's own!!!

rocker
03-25-2011, 09:53 PM
Why? Because they actually win the Cup once in while?

Guess you've never been to Columbus. LOL.

Roogsy
03-26-2011, 10:53 PM
They're probably putting in a report of all the offers De Rosario will ever receive, to show him his value is less (or perhaps even more) than what he believes so firmly.

In that case, let's assume that, oh, New England give us the best offer, and offer de Rosario 700k. Toronto says, well, "Here's 750" take it or there's New England.


Buying teams don't provide the selling teams their possible contract offers for the players. They only provide information on what they are willing to offer the selling team in return for the rights to the player. This scenario you speak of here is unlikely.

On a more general level, I'd also like to point out that all these rumours point to a keen interest in the player, an interest that many around here denied even though it was an interest that was informed on this board for some time. Maybe next time, those who choose to deny information the provided might want to instead provide their own or simply accept that they are not as informed as they pretend to be.

jloome
03-27-2011, 01:52 PM
All I know is, regardless of my dislike for his emotional petulance -- because business is full of disingenuous scumbags like Mo, and he should've realized that -- the way DeRo has played so far this season, I think he deserves at least a lower-end DP deal.

Guy makes some selfish and bad decisions sometimes, but on the whole he's a big part of almost anything good our team does on offence. Plus, he made the right choice for a change a couple of times yesterday and dished the ball to Yourassowsky on the overlap, instead of just charging through. (He also didnt when he should of, but hey, Rome, built, a day etc.)

Roogsy
03-27-2011, 01:59 PM
I fear it may be too late for that Jeremy.

Pookie
03-27-2011, 02:53 PM
All I know is, regardless of my dislike for his emotional petulance -- because business is full of disingenuous scumbags like Mo, and he should've realized that -- the way DeRo has played so far this season, I think he deserves at least a lower-end DP deal.



Can we define "lower-end DP deal"?

If rumours are correct, he was offered total compensation in the $500k range which would put him in GBS (pre-2011) & Nkufo range.

The notion of "DP" bares some exploration too. For example:


The cap hit of a player is defined by the base salary, not bonus or other "total" compensation, AND
The max cap hit of any player, DP or not, is $335k


What value, other than status, would you suggest DeRo is due?

TFC07
03-27-2011, 02:56 PM
Really? Is Angel a DP? I thought his salary was mostly allocation money and he wasn't.


CARSON, Calif. – The LA Galaxy announced today that the club has signed forward Juan Pablo Angel to a multi-year contract. The 35-year-old Colombian was selected by the Galaxy in the first round (5th overall) of Stage 2 of the MLS Re-Entry Process last month after spending the previous four seasons with the New York Red Bulls. In that time, no player scored more goals in MLS than Angel, who has 58 goals in 102 career regular season games in the league. Angel will become the third Designated Player on the Galaxy’s roster, joining David Beckham and Landon Donovan. Per club and league policy, terms of the contract were not disclosed.

Source: http://www.lagalaxy.com/news/2011/01/la-galaxy-sign-forward-juan-pablo-angel

TFC07
03-27-2011, 03:00 PM
What I don't get with the LAG interest, is why they'd want Dero? Juninho is 22 and has been a great attacking mid for them and he's way cheaper. I immediately thought Dero for Angel too, but he's not a winger and he's not a CF so I don't know how he'd fit in to the new formation. Maybe Donovan but I can'r see that either as he's such a big part of that club. Fak this saga just gets muddier.

I guess Juninho doesn't have the star power like DeRo does in MLS????

But yeah, I agree that it doesn't make sense for LAG to get DeRo.

Maybe it's Beckham that is coming to Toronto instead of Angel or Donovan. :D

arbogast
03-27-2011, 04:21 PM
I guess Juninho doesn't have the star power like DeRo does in MLS????

But yeah, I agree that it doesn't make sense for LAG to get DeRo.

Maybe it's Beckham that is coming to Toronto instead of Angel or Donovan. :D

I just realized that Beckham's contract is up this year, they could be looking at Dero as a replacement since Becks has been very vocal about a return to Europe.

Pookie
03-27-2011, 04:26 PM
Did you guys read this?

What's up with DeRosario?
by Steve Buffery - Toronto Sun

... "On top of that, De Rosario, who had another strong game, mysteriously disappeared afterwards and did not show up for the media availability with the rest of his teammates, setting off a wild goose chase by some TFC front office types, who searched for the team’s career leading goal scorer in the dressing room and by the stands, but to no avail.

Though he had a strong effort, creating several good chances, including a fine touch pass back to set up Martina’s first goal at the 14th minute, De Rosario’s body language during the match looked off.

Not that he didn’t play hard, he did. But De Rosario just appears disjointed. It’s been well-documented that the Toronto native is not happy with his contract situation and has asked TFC for more money and a longer deal. But though he is the team captain and the club’s leader, TFC hasn’t budged.

So the question is: Is DeRo playing under some sort of protest, and his skipping out on his media obligations afterwards a sign of that? And, if so, will that affect his situation on and off the pitch going forward?"

http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2011/03/26/17767801.html

Wull
03-27-2011, 04:44 PM
Article is a joke and DeRo has won me back over after the last two weekends.

Is MLS going to let another team negotiate a new contract with him after telling us we can't? That would be grounds for us to formally complain surely?

J .
03-27-2011, 04:46 PM
The media in Toronto is horrible when covering the game. I wonder how these sports journalists get these jobs? I cannot believe Buffery would write something he knew nothing about. No, no wait I can.

What an idiot.

J .
03-27-2011, 04:50 PM
I appreciate DeRos actions, they were classly.

I still do not believe they should renegotiate his contract during the season. Play the rest of the season and go from there. No doubt he is their best attacking player, but my feelings on the issue hasnt changed.

torontocelt
03-27-2011, 04:58 PM
Article is a joke and DeRo has won me back over after the last two weekends.

Is MLS going to let another negotiate a new contract with him after telling us we can't? That would be grounds for us to formally complain surely?

Exactly, it is complete nonsense. They acknowledge DeRo went over to the fans and that he paid tribute to the deceased fan but they criticize him for leaving the pitch too quickly? Some people just like DeRo to put him down and this is a good example. The same people who criticize him talking to the media and getting himself in trouble will also be the same people criticizing him for not talking to the media as they believe a captain should comment after matches. The man is screwed if he does and screwed if he doesn't, he simply cannot win with some people. For those who believe the captain not talking is not fulfilling his role, they should consider Sir Alex who is so sick of the BBC that he will not give them an interview and he is one of the worlds best ever managers. I am pretty sure Man U supporters do not feel that he is not fulfilling his role as manager.

Pookie
03-27-2011, 05:17 PM
Article is a joke and DeRo has won me back over after the last two weekends.

Is MLS going to let another team negotiate a new contract with him after telling us we can't? That would be grounds for us to formally complain surely?

I don't think they can renegotiate after making the public comments regarding their belief that he is on the right contract.

Further, if they award the DP tag, what's to stop Casey, Le Toux or even Cunningham from demanding the same treatment? It isn't a move that an owner (and since MLS is single entity, they are the owner) would make.

I wouldn't dismiss the article as a joke entirely. A Captain that ducks the media isn't exactly the way you want to operate as a business and a sports team.

From a business standpoint, they've done a lot with his image. Much of the promotional material, from magnets to Cups at BMO feature his image. Getting free exposure is something, under normal circumstances, you'd want of your star player, captain and meal ticket.

If he is ducking on purpose, the FO might have an issue with not getting free exposure. On a one off, not an issue. If it becomes a habit, there is an issue.

If he is being encouraged to duck, ie. to disinvest his image from the "face of the team", then there is a bigger story waiting to happen.

Lizzy
03-27-2011, 06:18 PM
Source: http://www.lagalaxy.com/news/2011/01/la-galaxy-sign-forward-juan-pablo-angel


Cheers. Thanks

ExiledRed
03-27-2011, 06:34 PM
I don't think they can renegotiate after making the public comments regarding their belief that he is on the right contract.

Further, if they award the DP tag, what's to stop Casey, Le Toux or even Cunningham from demanding the same treatment? It isn't a move that an owner (and since MLS is single entity, they are the owner) would make.

I wouldn't dismiss the article as a joke entirely. A Captain that ducks the media isn't exactly the way you want to operate as a business and a sports team.

From a business standpoint, they've done a lot with his image. Much of the promotional material, from magnets to Cups at BMO feature his image. Getting free exposure is something, under normal circumstances, you'd want of your star player, captain and meal ticket.

If he is ducking on purpose, the FO might have an issue with not getting free exposure. On a one off, not an issue. If it becomes a habit, there is an issue.

If he is being encouraged to duck, ie. to disinvest his image from the "face of the team", then there is a bigger story waiting to happen.

What I want in the captain of the team and star player, is someone who is prepared to acknowledge the fans, and is proud to honour a deceased fan and pay tribute to his family.

That means much more to me than showing your face on camera to spin media friendly bullshit about the game.

Pookie
03-27-2011, 07:05 PM
What I want in the captain of the team and star player, is someone who is prepared to acknowledge the fans, and is proud to honour a deceased fan and pay tribute to his family.

Absolutely high class gesture.


That means much more to me than showing your face on camera to spin media friendly bullshit about the game.

Obviously, the gesture is more meaningful to anyone with a pulse and a caring bone in their body.

But this isn't a choice of one or the other. His obligation as Captain is to be available.

That's what team leaders do. Would you give Winter a pass for ducking the media? Mariner? Anselmi?

It's fine with me if he wants to give up the armband but there are responsibilities that come with it. Like them or not.

Beach_Red
03-27-2011, 07:50 PM
Absolutely high class gesture. *

Obviously, the gesture is more meaningful to anyone with a pulse and a caring bone in their body.*

But this isn't a choice of one or the other. *His obligation as Captain is to be available.

That's what team leaders do. * Would you give Winter a pass for ducking the media? *Mariner? *Anselmi? *

It's fine with me if he wants to give up the armband but there are responsibilities that come with it. *Like them or not.

Pookie, most of what you post on this forum makes a lot of sense but now you're just grasping. Yes it was either/or at that moment and DeRo made the right choice. Can't be in two places at once. Maybe he should have rushed back to take the usual media questions and given the standard cliche answers, but do you really think any supporter would see that as a big deal?

Someday you may even want to consider that TFC and MLSE may not have always run the best work environment and that players have reacted in different ways. Some, like Laurent Robert, just quit and went to other leagues, some performed far below expectations and some played well but complained publicly.

We hope the organization has addressed most of the issues.

ExiledRed
03-27-2011, 08:03 PM
Absolutely high class gesture.



Obviously, the gesture is more meaningful to anyone with a pulse and a caring bone in their body.

But this isn't a choice of one or the other. His obligation as Captain is to be available.

That's what team leaders do. Would you give Winter a pass for ducking the media? Mariner? Anselmi?

It's fine with me if he wants to give up the armband but there are responsibilities that come with it. Like them or not.

I'd give any player a pass for not talking to the media. They never say anything insightful or revealing anyway. Its either

'yes we had a great win, but we need to keep trying hard'
or
'obviously, we lost, but we need to keep trying hard'

Juanito
03-27-2011, 10:25 PM
Yeah, DeRo has won me over. He is still our biggest offensive weapon, but what he did yesterday was pure class.

I think that MLSE and DeRo shat the bed with the situation over his contract. I'm not even sure that if MLSE wanted to give him the DP status, that MLS would block it.

Anselmi has really screwed up from the FO point-of-view. He could have used more tact to diffuse the situation and whomever does the public relations for TFC definitley shat the bed in the off-season!

Roogsy may be correct and that the situation is past the point of being salvageable.

Roogsy
03-27-2011, 10:43 PM
From a business standpoint, they've done a lot with his image. Much of the promotional material, from magnets to Cups at BMO feature his image. Getting free exposure is something, under normal circumstances, you'd want of your star player, captain and meal ticket.


Except pay him in a corresponding manner right? He should be thankful he's on a fridge magnet and on billboards but don't ask for another dollar even if you promised it to him...shoot, don't even offer him to guarantee his contract, that's nice. Market the shit out of the man for your own benefit but that doesnt' prove he has a higher value does it right? Your position on this is so inconsistent it makes my head spin.

BTW, you're just as bad as the writer of the article. Speaking before you have the facts. You just can't stand the man and will take any opportunity to bash him, that much is now abundantly clear. But in case you are interested in the facts, DeRo took time to personally run around and gather signatures for the banner from all the players so that the banner could be returned to the family for today's memorial. That's what he was doing for a good half hour. Shame on him.

TFCRegina
03-28-2011, 12:41 AM
Unfortunately this situation was so badly handled by the FO. I sincerely hope they make overtures and don't see shipping De Ro out as the only option for fixing this problem. If the Front Office even wants a chance at playoffs this year, they need him in the lineup.

This season is going to be an uphill battle as is. Doing it without De Ro (who, by the way, worked fantastically with Santos and Martina) is going to be like trying to dig a hole to China with a teaspoon.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-28-2011, 05:55 AM
i just still cant see what DeRo would gain by leaving outside of the fact that he wouldnt have to be around MLSE

Pookie
03-28-2011, 06:57 AM
i just still cant see what DeRo would gain by leaving outside of the fact that he wouldnt have to be around MLSE

I don't think he can gain anything within the MLS. They, the MLS, feel as though he is on the right contract and they don't want to artificially inflate the contract values of other career MLS players like Casey & Cunningham.

If he really believes he can fetch more on an open market, again, outside the MLS since they hold the contracts, he could try to renegotiate the removal of the club option in 2012. He and his agent could then explore all options and let the free market determine his future value as a 33 year old player.

Pookie
03-28-2011, 07:06 AM
... DeRo took time to personally run around and gather signatures for the banner from all the players so that the banner could be returned to the family for today's memorial. That's what he was doing for a good half hour.

Honestly, this is great stuff. There is nothing really to say about it.

If at the end of it, the reporters had all left, then you've got a very reasonable, compassionate explanation.

I'm not trying to make a huge deal out of it but I have spoken out about Brennan ducking the media after losing 5-0 to NYRB in 2009 and leaving Edwards and Cronin to face the cameras. Speaking to the media and being the voice of the team is the job of a team leader and it wouldn't be "consistent" of me to expect anything different from any Captain. I promise to hold our next one to the same standard.

I'm not getting into your "pay the man" diatribe. Unless HR is forgetting to send him cheques, he's clearly been well compensated in the league he chooses to play in.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-28-2011, 07:24 AM
I don't think he can gain anything within the MLS. They, the MLS, feel as though he is on the right contract and they don't want to artificially inflate the contract values of other career MLS players like Casey & Cunningham.

If he really believes he can fetch more on an open market, again, outside the MLS since they hold the contracts, he could try to renegotiate the removal of the club option in 2012. He and his agent could then explore all options and let the free market determine his future value as a 33 year old player.

this is essentially how i see it too, ill be happy to hear all other povs/arguments i just fail to see how this will end well for DeRo elsewhere

Wull
03-28-2011, 07:32 AM
If he went back to Houston on this deal, he'd save a bundle in taxes

Nodoubtguy
03-28-2011, 07:59 AM
Do I love the man......no

Do I want him on this team....without a doubt.

v00d00daddy
03-28-2011, 08:36 AM
DeRo came to this team with a lot of anticipation and fan fare. I was as excited as I'd ever been about TFC.

Then, over time, my opinion of him soured. I started to dislike his contributions on and off the field...culminating in this last off season.

He's started this season playing very well in the two games and his move at the end of the game on Saturday was classy to the max.

That being said, much like his (assumed) feelings with TFC, the situation is too far gone for me to ever cheer for him again with the same excitement.

Oh well.

ManUtd4ever
03-28-2011, 08:54 AM
I hope DeRo's heartfelt gesture after the match on Saturday has helped erase some of the lingering bitterness towards him from some supporters. Although I haven't condoned some of his actions throughout his contract dispute, it was never personal. On the pitch, he has always been a dedicated, heart and soul player for our club, and that is what matters most.

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 09:11 AM
i just still cant see what DeRo would gain by leaving outside of the fact that he wouldnt have to be around MLSE


There are several benefits to DeRo if he leaves:

1) Lower tax rate
2) More corporate sponsorship and promotional opportunities (ie. Puma Canada is not very active with him but Puma US was. Since coming up, his Puma opportunities have decreased)
3) Depending on the team, playoff action again, possibly another Cup appearance
4) Start fresh with an organization that doesn't do things to upset him and quite possibly obtain a better contract
5) A more appreciative fanbase

Despite all this, his hope is to stay and work things out. If he leaves it's because the team has decided to trade him away.

Whoop
03-28-2011, 09:14 AM
Do I love the man......no

Do I want him on this team....without a doubt.

I'm with Sal and voodoo.

Menelaos
03-28-2011, 09:15 AM
5) A more appreciative fanbase



I'll have to disagree there.

Yes, there are many on these forums who are against him, but those 200 noise makers are nothing compared to the other 20,000 who were cheering him on and want him to stay.

There is no other team in the MLS where he would be more appreciated by the average fan that doesn't concern himself with the offseason, but rather appreciates the production on the field.

Suds
03-28-2011, 09:22 AM
There are several benefits to DeRo if he leaves:

1) Lower tax rate
2) More corporate sponsorship and promotional opportunities (ie. Puma Canada is not very active with him but Puma US was. Since coming up, his Puma opportunities have decreased)
3) Depending on the team, playoff action again, possibly another Cup appearance
4) Start fresh with an organization that doesn't do things to upset him and quite possibly obtain a better contract
5) A more appreciative fanbase

Despite all this, his hope is to stay and work things out. If he leaves it's because the team has decided to trade him away.


I think that is an overstatement, however, I understand you are closer to him and he could very well be feeling that. There are many many fans who appreciate him. There are also many, like me, who took him to issue for his actions but have also accepted his apology and moved on.

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 09:22 AM
I'll have to disagree there.

Yes, there are many on these forums who are against him, but those 200 noise makers are nothing compared to the other 20,000 who were cheering him on and want him to stay.

There is no other team in the MLS where he would be more appreciated by the average fan that doesn't concern himself with the offseason, but rather appreciates the production on the field.

Maybe appreciative is not the word. In the US, the soccer fans are a little different. Well, not even just the soccer fans, sports fans in general are a little different than they are in Toronto. There is a sense of entitlement here that isn't there, at least from what I can tell. If you produce, you are appreciated. The crazy thing is that bigger stars have done worse things (Kobe anyone?) and the fans still love them. Because what they care about are wins. Here we care if our captain keeps his contract issues quiet, because that's what's important for us.

And in the US, they don't elevate the Tie Domi's and Dan Gargans to stardom at the same level (or even over) as the Sundins and DeRos.

Whoop
03-28-2011, 09:32 AM
Every city loves their unsung heroes.

The problem in Toronto, and you can go back 20-30 years, is when was the last time Toronto had a mega superstar on the scene? Toronto has a few stars but no superstars. The closest Toronto has had over the years was Vince Carter and he was loved until he became Wince Carter. Bosh was a star but not a superstar. The Leafs have never had a superstar and the Jays, other than their run in the early 90s, have never really had the best player in the game either. (Though you could make arguments for Alomar and Halladay.)

I think if DeRo went to another team, I think he would able to "hide" in the market more than he can in Toronto and I think that's the difference.

And you can't compare DeRo (or even Sundin) to guys like Kobe. Kobe is an international star. He plays in the NBA which has WAY more cache than the NHL or MLS. And it's not necessarily about wins. Carter never won anything in Toronto. Look at guys like Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, etc. They've never won anything. Hell, I'd argue DeRo has become more of a star in Toronto than when he played in Houston. In Houston he was "one of the guys" on the team, here he is the star.

Pachuco
03-28-2011, 09:34 AM
There are several benefits to DeRo if he leaves:

1) Lower tax rate
2) More corporate sponsorship and promotional opportunities (ie. Puma Canada is not very active with him but Puma US was. Since coming up, his Puma opportunities have decreased)
3) Depending on the team, playoff action again, possibly another Cup appearance
4) Start fresh with an organization that doesn't do things to upset him and quite possibly obtain a better contract
5) A more appreciative fanbase

Despite all this, his hope is to stay and work things out. If he leaves it's because the team has decided to trade him away.

Seriously, couldn't agree more with all of this. I can't believe people actually think Dero would have nothing to gain by going to another team. We are talking about Toronto here. Not the New York Red Bull.

BFin
03-28-2011, 09:36 AM
Kobe never harmed his fan base.

Gargan is not bigger than DeRo, except maybe in the Gargan family.

Hockey is a much different sport than Soccer.

Didn't Nate Robinson become a star in the United States, without ever delivering much on the court? Wasn't Mugsy Bogues loved? Sean Bradley and Manute Bol were hugely popular players in their time. Ian Laperierre is widely renowned as a fan favourite in the NHL due to the fact that he will sacrifice his body (and face occasionally) for the team. George Parros (Anaheim Ducks) is one of the most popular guys because he fights, and has a dirty duster.

I don't agree with your assertion that this is a Toronto thing.

Whoop
03-28-2011, 09:37 AM
Anyone have access to MLS shirt sales?

I mean I'd argue that there have been more DeRosario TFC shirt sales than DeRosario Houston Dynamo shirt sales.

I know MLB, NBA, etc release their shirt sales numbers.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-28-2011, 09:37 AM
There are several benefits to DeRo if he leaves:

1) Lower tax rate
2) More corporate sponsorship and promotional opportunities (ie. Puma Canada is not very active with him but Puma US was. Since coming up, his Puma opportunities have decreased)
3) Depending on the team, playoff action again, possibly another Cup appearance
4) Start fresh with an organization that doesn't do things to upset him and quite possibly obtain a better contract
5) A more appreciative fanbase

Despite all this, his hope is to stay and work things out. If he leaves it's because the team has decided to trade him away.

ill bite everything but the last two
Both have been argued to death so we wont go there but you do bring up other good points.
Bit sad to see him go but i cant say i want him around if hes unhappy (its bad for us and for him)

Whoop
03-28-2011, 09:39 AM
Kobe also plays in LA and with one of the most storied franchises in ALL of pro sports around the world.

You can go to China and people know who the LA Lakers are.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-28-2011, 09:40 AM
Anyone have access to MLS shirt sales?

I mean I'd argue that there have been more DeRosario TFC shirt sales than DeRosario Houston Dynamo shirt sales.

I know MLB, NBA, etc release their shirt sales numbers.

yeah this too, also with that online gambling company, dunno if he'll find work like that in texas (im now kinda assuming thats his most likely place)

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 09:42 AM
Kobe never harmed his fan base.

Gargan is not bigger than DeRo, except maybe in the Gargan family.

Hockey is a much different sport than Soccer.

Didn't Nate Robinson become a star in the United States, without ever delivering much on the court? Wasn't Mugsy Bogues loved? Sean Bradley and Manute Bol were hugely popular players in their time. Ian Laperierre is widely renowned as a fan favourite in the NHL due to the fact that he will sacrifice his face (and body occasionally) for the team. George Parros (Anaheim Ducks) is one of the most popular guys because he fights, and has a dirty duster.

I don't agree with your comparison that this is a Toronto thing.

I absolutely disagree about your comparisons. I don't even know who George Parros or Iam laperierre are but I don't follow hockey closely anymore...I am quite sure however that their "star" status is questionable. I do however follow basketball and Bradley, Robinson, Bogues and Bol were never stars. Perhaps loved but even then I would say it's a stretch. And I have been following basketball quite closely for 20 years.

As for DeRo and Kobe...I am not sure how DeRo "harmed" his fanbase. At least not in a way that Kobe should have with his shenanigans. Shoot...how many NBA and NFL athletes can I rhyme off that have been in trouble with the law and done things that should have made them less popular and yet they continued to excel? And yet many here want to ship DeRo out because he mimed a cheque signing...he mimed it! Dear lord the betrayal! I will never get my head around that.

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 09:44 AM
Kobe also plays in LA and with one of the most storied franchises in ALL of pro sports around the world.

You can go to China and people know who the LA Lakers are.

Dunno what that has to do with anything Vic. So the bigger the team, the more slack people give their stars?

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 09:44 AM
This isn't a US vs Canada issue, it's a red state/blue state thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

In NY or LA, you are more right than wrong. In a place like Minneapolis or Kansas City, they overdo their love for "hustle" guys, the same way TO does. Funny thing about Toronto is, it has "blue state" politics but likes it sports "red state" style. It's because the culture of hockey, which is totally "red state", I think.


This is interesting. Never thought of it, but there is something here to look at.

Pookie
03-28-2011, 09:46 AM
I think lost in all of this is the good news that we appear to be developing options for an attack outside of the game plan that read "give the ball to one guy."

Gordon in the middle, at 6'3" deserves attention.

On the youth side, Santos (26), appears willing and capable of delivering some excellent strikes. Martina (24)? Hard to argue with the optimism there. Stevanovic (20)? Only a glimpse of what he can do on the weekend but he does seem to be willing to run at defenders and isn't shy about shooting. He looked to have very good pace.

While the road is long, it is clear that we are developing a more balanced attack and the fact that it is being done with youth is very encouraging. Outside of Bouchiba (32), Gordon (29) and Yourassowsky (28), every player that Winter has brought in is under 24.

That speaks well of the potential to grow together, weather injuries and develop a long(er) term vision.

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 09:47 AM
yeah this too, also with that online gambling company, dunno if he'll find work like that in texas (im now kinda assuming thats his most likely place)


Corporate opportunities in the US, let alone a huge state like Texas are much more available than in Canada that does not have a corporate environment like the US. For real Oss, it's not even close. It's almost an obsession down there. It's actually pretty ridiculous.

Whoop
03-28-2011, 09:48 AM
Major League Baseball Best-Selling Jersey list for 2010

1. Derek Jeter
2. Joe Mauer
3. Roy Halladay
4. Chase Utley
5. Cliff Lee
6. Albert Pujols
7. Josh Hamilton
8. Dustin Pedroia
9. Alex Rodriguez
10. Tim Lincecum

Can't find the latest NBA jersey sales numbers but it's likely #1 Kobe Bryant, #2 LeBron James, #3 Dwight Howard, #4 Derrick Rose, #5 Dwyane Wade.

Most of those guys on the lists haven't won anything either.

Wull
03-28-2011, 09:49 AM
Kobe was about to be booed out of the building when he lost the rag and demanded a trade, fortunately everything got resolved before it spun out of control.

Again Roogsy, it's about timing with the cheque thing for many of us. I know a lot of people would have had an issue with him doing it at all but for some of us if he'd done it after scoring the winner against Houston the previous week it wouldn't have been an issue. He apologized for it too, so he must have seen something in it that was contrary (that or he was doing a PR spin but I'm past that now, didn't want him gone for it regardless)

BFin
03-28-2011, 09:50 AM
I absolutely disagree about your comparisons. I don't even know who George Parros or Iam laperierre are but I don't follow hockey closely anymore...I am quite sure however that their "star" status is questionable. I do however follow basketball and Bradley, Robinson, Bogues and Bol were never stars. Perhaps loved but even then I would say it's a stretch. And I have been following basketball quite closely for 20 years.

As for DeRo and Kobe...I am not sure how DeRo "harmed" his fanbase. At least not in a way that Kobe should have with his shenanigans. Shoot...how many NBA and NFL athletes can I rhyme off that have been in trouble with the law and done things that should have made them less popular and yet they continued to excel? And yet many here want to ship DeRo out because he mimed a cheque signing...he mimed it! Dear lord the betrayal! I will never get my head around that.

And yet you refer to Dan Gargan as a star? Am I missing your definition for how this term is being used in your debate? I was under the impression you were referring to how the fan base in Toronto has elevated Gargan above DeRo. George Parros is more of a rock star in Anaheim than Bobby Ryan is, and Ryan is 20 times the player.

Nate Robinson is an awful PG, and yet he was more popular than any of his teammates with the NYK. Are these examples not true?

What are you talking about in the 2nd part? Kobe didn't publicly rape the collective LA Lakers fan base. He raped a girl in Colorado. That's why the Lakers fans didn't (on a majority) turn on him...because he busted his ass for the Lakers and has won them many championships. His personal life was left off the court.

I don't want to get into the seperate DeRo instances as it will probably throw this off on a bigger tangent, but he's been very public with some anti-TFC sentiment and it is naturally expected to rub the fan base the wrong way.

Pookie
03-28-2011, 09:53 AM
Gargan is not bigger than DeRo, except maybe in the Gargan family.


Agreed.

I like Gargan for the hard work he puts in and the fact that he is accessible. I don't recall the other player taking time to visit fans at any of the Pub Crawls... the free ones... but I recall Gargan doing it. For a guy trying to make a living and giving his "Free" time to young fans, I've got nothing but respect for him.

In the end though, Roogsy's DeRo/Gargan comparison touches on the ironic.

In a cap world, if you spend your wad on a player like DeRo, you have to fill the gaps with players like Gargan ($40k last year). It could be Gargan or some other player but for $40k, you get what you pay for.

If some folks don't want a team that has a Gargan on it, those folks have to consider splitting the money you would have spent on Gargan/DeRo on 2 other guys. It's the same total money, it's all a matter of spending it wisely.

If a $40k player on the roster is an issue, I guess the conclusion is that the total money isn't being spent wisely???

But I digress. DeRo's jersey sales, image, etc are much higher than Gargan's ever will be. But let's not let facts get in the way of an emotional argument.

Whoop
03-28-2011, 09:53 AM
Dunno what that has to do with anything Vic. So the bigger the team, the more slack people give their stars?

You were arguing that Kobe was a bigger star, and loved by his fans. I'm just saying by sheer numbers alone he'll have more fans.

But I can also flip the argument around and make a social commentary argument that perhaps Americans don't care what kind of person you as long as you entertain them. That goes for athletes, actors, musicians, etc. Maybe Canadians care more about the person's character than Americans? But that's a whole other argument.

Point being I think, despite his detractors, he'll never get more love than he gets here.

As for the financial stuff, I can't speak to that and maybe that's what he means by "more love".

v00d00daddy
03-28-2011, 09:54 AM
As for DeRo and Kobe...I am not sure how DeRo "harmed" his fanbase. At least not in a way that Kobe should have with his shenanigans. Shoot...how many NBA and NFL athletes can I rhyme off that have been in trouble with the law and done things that should have made them less popular and yet they continued to excel? And yet many here want to ship DeRo out because he mimed a cheque signing...he mimed it! Dear lord the betrayal! I will never get my head around that.

Excell how? In popularity?

Hardly. Plaxico Burress shoots himself in the leg and people think he's an idiot. It doesn't make him more popular, nor shoud it.

DeRo "mimes" a cheque signing. The act itself means nothing. It's the logic and reasoning behind the act. It shows where his priorities are.

Just like your list.

3 out of the 5 reasons on your list are Money.
1 of the other things is something that DeRo did to himself (ie: more appreciative fan base)
Only one is actually soccer related. That's a complete joke if you ask me.

If 4 out of 5 reasons for DeRo to leave have nothing to do with actually playing soccer then I guess it's time for him to go.

If DeRo doesn't feel appreciated that's his problem. If he wanted more love from the fans he wouldn't have behaved the way he did at the end of last season and in this past off season.

Again...it goes to his character. His priorities. He should have known that that stupid inconsequential (in his eyes and yours) act actually would have consequences and fallout.

All the goals in the world can not undo (in some peoples eyes) what he did because one has nothing to do with the other.

The goals show his talent level. The cheque signing shows his priorities.

I get that you don't agree with that viewpoint, but I will never wrap my head around the fact that you can't see that some fans can't stomach that kind of behaviour.

Whoop
03-28-2011, 09:56 AM
This is interesting. Never thought of it, but there is something here to look at.

I think ensco illustrated my point with that. LOL


Kobe was about to be booed out of the building when he lost the rag and demanded a trade, fortunately everything got resolved before it spun out of control.

Again Roogsy, it's about timing with the cheque thing for many of us. I know a lot of people would have had an issue with him doing it at all but for some of us if he'd done it after scoring the winner against Houston the previous week it wouldn't have been an issue. He apologized for it too, so he must have seen something in it that was contrary (that or he was doing a PR spin but I'm past that now, didn't want him gone for it regardless)

Remember Kobe was vilified in LA - but not because of his actions - but because he was seen as a petulant child who ran the popular Shaq out of town. It wasn't until he brought a championship to LA on his own - and matured in the process - that it turned around for Kobe. And that took about 4-5 years.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-28-2011, 09:59 AM
Corporate opportunities in the US, let alone a huge state like Texas are much more available than in Canada that does not have a corporate environment like the US. For real Oss, it's not even close. It's almost an obsession down there. It's actually pretty ridiculous.

admittedly thats delving into something i know nothing about, im just thinking about DeRo's celeb status vs whatever baseball player/football player is down there, I know Houston (for instance) has support but more so then their football team? etc etc
I guess its more of me seeing him as a big fish in a small pond up here vs being 'one of the guys' (as someone so aptly put) down there

BFin
03-28-2011, 10:33 AM
Good post Voodoo.

Well said.

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 10:43 AM
There is no getting away from the fact that MLS is small fry in the US, but we forget that MLS is small fry here too. And in the US, they recognize his championship winnings as meaningful whereas some here see it as a nice footnote in his resumé. Add that to the much larger corporate participation in sports that there is in the US vs Canada and you have the ability to make more money. Yeah, Pokerstars in the US won't sign him probably...but Puma US did. So it's sort of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Beach_Red
03-28-2011, 10:48 AM
This is interesting. Never thought of it, but there is something here to look at.

That Red State-Blue State thing probably has more to do with how we view ownership. Canada, like a lot of the more conservative US view corporations as generally good (or even very good).

So, a guy like Dichio who quietly takes it and just hopes that things will go his way is respected but a guy like DeRo who fights back against ownership publicly isn't well-liked.

TFCRegina
03-28-2011, 10:51 AM
Excell how? In popularity?

Hardly. Plaxico Burress shoots himself in the leg and people think he's an idiot. It doesn't make him more popular, nor shoud it.

DeRo "mimes" a cheque signing. The act itself means nothing. It's the logic and reasoning behind the act. It shows where his priorities are.

Just like your list.

3 out of the 5 reasons on your list are Money.
1 of the other things is something that DeRo did to himself (ie: more appreciative fan base)
Only one is actually soccer related. That's a complete joke if you ask me.

If 4 out of 5 reasons for DeRo to leave have nothing to do with actually playing soccer then I guess it's time for him to go.

If DeRo doesn't feel appreciated that's his problem. If he wanted more love from the fans he wouldn't have behaved the way he did at the end of last season and in this past off season.

Again...it goes to his character. His priorities. He should have known that that stupid inconsequential (in his eyes and yours) act actually would have consequences and fallout.

All the goals in the world can not undo (in some peoples eyes) what he did because one has nothing to do with the other.

The goals show his talent level. The cheque signing shows his priorities.

I get that you don't agree with that viewpoint, but I will never wrap my head around the fact that you can't see that some fans can't stomach that kind of behaviour.

Big fucking deal. He wants to get paid. As do every other player on our roster. Do you think Matt Stinson would be playing for TFC for no salary?

They're /professional/ athletes. They derive their income from this. This is a job.

They're not here to give you fucking hugs and kisses and they're not here to fight for the badge (except for everyone's golden boy Adrian Cann - he definitely fights for the badge and not cash). In case you haven't noticed TFC hasn't had anyone stay here long enough - bar Attakora - to be truly fighting for the badge.

But you can say the same about virtually any football club in the world. Players don't play for the badge. The play for the cash. It's always been that way, and it always will be. Stop treating De Ro like he's some anomaly.

dow117
03-28-2011, 10:56 AM
There are several benefits to DeRo if he leaves:

1) Lower tax rate
2) More corporate sponsorship and promotional opportunities (ie. Puma Canada is not very active with him but Puma US was. Since coming up, his Puma opportunities have decreased)
3) Depending on the team, playoff action again, possibly another Cup appearance
4) Start fresh with an organization that doesn't do things to upset him and quite possibly obtain a better contract
5) A more appreciative fanbase

Despite all this, his hope is to stay and work things out. If he leaves it's because the team has decided to trade him away.


I would have thought the biggest benifit would be non monetary, in playing in his home town in front of family and friends , doing a job that you love ... but I guess I am old fashioned. If he wants to go and get more $$$ --- just go !.

TFCRegina
03-28-2011, 11:00 AM
I would have thought the biggest benifit would be non monetary, in playing in his home town in front of family and friends , doing a job that you love ... but I guess I am old fashioned. If he wants to go and get more $$$ --- just go !.

I think you missed the part where Roogsy explicitly stated that he wants to stay despite all the problems that he's having. And the part that says if he goes, it's the FO's move, not his.

De Ro wants to be here, but nobody seems to give two shits that he does.

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 11:03 AM
I get that you don't agree with that viewpoint, but I will never wrap my head around the fact that you can't see that some fans can't stomach that kind of behaviour.

And this is where my position has been misconstrued. I have repeatedly said that based on his public actions and comments on TFC, I can understand people not liking him. And my position has always been, fine, don't like him! But don't minimize his contributions to this team (or in his career) as some sort of excuse to justify your not liking him, which is what many people here have done. Then we can all move on with our respective opinions.

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 11:06 AM
I would have thought the biggest benifit would be non monetary, in playing in his home town in front of family and friends , doing a job that you love ... but I guess I am old fashioned. If he wants to go and get more $$$ --- just go !.

I was pointing out the reality of his leaving, that it wouldn't hurt him. You're making it sound like he's asking to leave. He hasn't asked for a trade, so what exactly is making it sound like he wants to go?

Ossington Mental Youth
03-28-2011, 11:10 AM
I think you missed the part where Roogsy explicitly stated that he wants to stay despite all the problems that he's having. And the part that says if he goes, it's the FO's move, not his.

De Ro wants to be here, but nobody seems to give two shits that he does.

Didnt see this at all.
welllllll then, hope he stays and kills it this year.
Ill be annoyed if the FO sells him off especially with no replacement.
I have no clue why theyd reup his contract then try and shift him off (outside of the fact they are fucking retards).
My heart goes out to DeRo if thats really the case. Was upset about 'the incident' im passed it, especially if he wants to stay now.

v00d00daddy
03-28-2011, 11:13 AM
Big fucking deal. He wants to get paid.

He gets paid. Very well too.

I think you meant to say:

"Big fucking deal. He wants to get paid MORE"

That's fine. Not a big deal to you. But it is a big deal for lots of people.

As for the "for the badge" talk.

I couldn't care less about that because, for me, the idea of kissing the badge of a team that has existed for 4 years is a joke. It's manufactured history and folklore.

I just want players that play well and are good role models.

That's not to say that thinking otherwise is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but all the people talking like it's outrageous to be pissed off at DeRo need to step back and realize that everybody has different expectations of players.

For me, elite players have the highest expectations.

I expect elite players to play well, represent the team well and be a good role model for younger players.

Fulfill those things and (for me) the sky's the limit when we're talking about salary.

Unfortunately DeRo doesn't do all of the things (in my opinion).

He's great on the field but sometimes its to the detriment of team because he can be overly selfish.

He often represents the team well (all his charitable donations, both time and money) but also lets out a "not so nice" side of his character when he does shit like the cheque signing and some of the shit that he's said in interviews.

As a result he's both a good and bad example for younger players and kids in general.

Depending on the day he can either be the best example of a pro athlete that you can find or, conversely, he can be an example of the typical spoiled, self centered athlete.

That's just not good enough for me.

Pigfynn
03-28-2011, 11:14 AM
And this is where my position has been misconstrued. I have repeatedly said that based on his public actions and comments on TFC, I can understand people not liking him. And my position has always been, fine, don't like him! But don't minimize his contributions to this team (or in his career) as some sort of excuse to justify your not liking him, which is what many people here have done. Then we can all move on with our respective opinions.


I don't think it's fair for anyone who does not know him personally(which is practically everyone that posts here) to say they don't like him.

I for one don't like his approach to things. He either takes very bad advice when it comes to public statements or he just speaks without thinking things through...a lot.

The playing side of things I think cannot be questioned. Selfish player? without question. One of the leagues most dangerous and talented players? without question as well.

I want Dero to be happy here and play like a happy guy, but he needs to handle things internally and stop talking about money, at least to the media.

There is no quicker way to upset people who don't make 500K a year or more than to say it's just not enough. Everyone knows that.

v00d00daddy
03-28-2011, 11:16 AM
And this is where my position has been misconstrued. I have repeatedly said that based on his public actions and comments on TFC, I can understand people not liking him. And my position has always been, fine, don't like him! But don't minimize his contributions to this team (or in his career) as some sort of excuse to justify your not liking him, which is what many people here have done. Then we can all move on with our respective opinions.

Agree 100%.

I'm not even that crazy about DeRo as a footballer but minimizing his contributions is a little overboard, even for me. lol

Suds
03-28-2011, 11:19 AM
I was pointing out the reality of his leaving, that it wouldn't hurt him. You're making it sound like he's asking to leave. He hasn't asked for a trade, so what exactly is making it sound like he wants to go?

Yeah, I'm having a hard time understanding how this has perpetuated into some form of fact. DeRo has never said he does not want to be in Toronto.

Maybe his actions in the off season gave that impression, but he has been clear in his statements since then.

ensco
03-28-2011, 11:28 AM
One funny thing that this Dero thing has really brought home for me: guys like him never see it from the other guy's point of view, it's part of their edge.

The truly elite people in anything (including athletes) can come across as near sociopaths to people they don't know/trust. They are just so single-minded.

But who they really are, behind closed doors? Well, usually nobody knows (except Roogsy!)

torontocelt
03-28-2011, 11:33 AM
I'll have to disagree there.

Yes, there are many on these forums who are against him, but those 200 noise makers are nothing compared to the other 20,000 who were cheering him on and want him to stay.

There is no other team in the MLS where he would be more appreciated by the average fan that doesn't concern himself with the offseason, but rather appreciates the production on the field.

Agreed, I would say opinion on these boards are split 50 - 50 but that is not the case in the stadium where he receives great backing.

BFin
03-28-2011, 11:43 AM
There is no getting away from the fact that MLS is small fry in the US, but we forget that MLS is small fry here too. And in the US, they recognize his championship winnings as meaningful whereas some here see it as a nice footnote in his resumé. Add that to the much larger corporate participation in sports that there is in the US vs Canada and you have the ability to make more money. Yeah, Pokerstars in the US won't sign him probably...but Puma US did. So it's sort of 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

He hasn't won anything in a red jersey. CMNT of TFC.

I know, I'm nit picking.

Whoop
03-28-2011, 11:44 AM
There is no quicker way to upset people who don't make 500K a year or more than to say it's just not enough. Everyone knows that.

That goes for any athlete.

Terrell Owens is one of the greatest wide receivers to ever play in the NFL, but he kept shooting himself in the foot with his contract demands and his antics. Some people still love him and don't care but the vast majority don't.

That's why I said - way back in '09 - first rule of thumb when it comes to contracts and salary is don't about it through the media. That should be ingrained in any pro athlete in the game. Some know it, some don't. If someone asks you just respond by saying "it's something the team and I are working on." Or "speak with my agent" and like the agent spin it. A good agent should be well versed on how to handle the media especially when discussing contracts and salary.

I think that Wheeler interview at the end of '09 was the starting point of some of the bloom coming off the rose so to speak especially when TFC crashed and burned the way they did that year. Same thing last season, with the cheque signing, in the midst of a playoff run that failed. Never said it was his fault for not getting the team in the playoffs but I'm sure if he did that after scoring the MLS Cup game winning goal the reaction to it would have been a lot different.

C.Ronaldo
03-28-2011, 11:45 AM
personally i like that he speaks his mind.

and I like when he plays mad.

in Montreal he played Mad, his was pissed at his shit team and took things into his own hands.

Roogsy
03-28-2011, 11:45 AM
He hasn't won anything in a red jersey. CMNT of TFC.

I know, I'm nit picking.


Welcome to Toronto...it's a hole for championships. Even our World Series wins are coming up on 20 years. I can hardly believe it.

torontocelt
03-28-2011, 11:46 AM
Big fucking deal. He wants to get paid. As do every other player on our roster. Do you think Matt Stinson would be playing for TFC for no salary?

They're /professional/ athletes. They derive their income from this. This is a job.

They're not here to give you fucking hugs and kisses and they're not here to fight for the badge (except for everyone's golden boy Adrian Cann - he definitely fights for the badge and not cash). In case you haven't noticed TFC hasn't had anyone stay here long enough - bar Attakora - to be truly fighting for the badge.

But you can say the same about virtually any football club in the world. Players don't play for the badge. The play for the cash. It's always been that way, and it always will be. Stop treating De Ro like he's some anomaly.

Agree with this, there would be some exceptions of course but by and large players play for clubs who will offer them the most cash / chance of success. Even those who are loyal to a club would still demand decent wages, people are not stupid and have families to take care of. In saying that every player signed should be fighting for the badge and giving their all every day, so I dont agree with you on that part.

Whoop
03-28-2011, 11:57 AM
I would add too... if there is good chemistry in the room, a lot of guys play for each other. The band of brothers mentality. The team is your family.

Bob Iarusci kind of alluded to it on the Soccer Show on Thursday. You have to believe in one another, trust in one another on the pitch in order to be successful.

Though in this day and age in sports with all the player movement it's tough to do, but if you look at the most successful teams in any sport, they usually have a strong core that have been together for a while. I mean the Heat are finding that out at times, that just because you throw together 3 of the best players together it doesn't guarantee success.

Mercenaries have feelings too. LOL

I mean I would love it if DeRo would stick around (and MLSE would allow it) and mentor some of the younger guys on how to be a pro and act like a pro. Not only is your performance on the pitch important but your off the pitch duties. He is the elder statesman of the group. And I think that's what disappoints people with some of his comments. You kind of give a rookie or a young guy the benefit of the doubt but when it's a vet it stings a little more.

Pookie
03-28-2011, 12:12 PM
... And I think that's what disappoints people with some of his comments. You kind of give a rookie or a young guy the benefit of the doubt but when it's a vet it stings a little more.

Bingo.

And at 32, he is the oldest player in that room. A CNMT regular on a roster that includes 8 Canadians under the age of 24. He could be something for a lot of people.

In some ways, you can excuse a flippant remark or something that was done in the heat of the moment.

What bothers me most is that his comments and actions have all been pre-meditated/planned for years. Clearly he had time to contemplate the outcomes and opted to continue with his own plan.

That 2009 Casino Rama Grill Room interview highlights it all:

Question: "Do you have the ability to re-negotiate your contract?"
DeRo: Technically, No... (laughs) But yes.

Honestly, if he really didn't feel like the contract was to his liking, don't sign it. Let your play do the talking and become a free agent. Instead, presumably because he had doubts about his ability, he chose the safe route.

Take the raise and plan the re-negotiation if he played well. If he didn't? I guess he would simply take his raise and bank it.

DeRo could be so much more of a leader in that room and for Canadian Soccer. Instead he chooses to be so much less.

TFCRegina
03-28-2011, 12:17 PM
He hasn't won anything in a red jersey. CMNT of TFC.

I know, I'm nit picking.

You mean he wasn't on the winning squad for the 2000 Gold Cup or the U-20 Squad that won the title in 1996?

dow117
04-08-2011, 11:22 AM
I was pointing out the reality of his leaving, that it wouldn't hurt him. You're making it sound like he's asking to leave. He hasn't asked for a trade, so what exactly is making it sound like he wants to go?

Turns out in a recent interview that Dero did in fact ask to be traded and so he did. Lets move on, the guy wants the word DP in front of his name coz he turned down a 3 year contract with good $$$ attached ( the security and respect that he desired ) coz there was no DP attached. NYC ain't going to give DP status either. So "Me" Ro is out of luck.
I was his biggest fan !!