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View Full Version : Cann - a 'feint'?



jloome
03-23-2011, 10:58 AM
Anyone else think maybe Adrian Cann playing LB was a "feint" -- an attempt to misdirect by channeling Vancouver's play in a particular direction, to limit their options?

Technorgasm posted a picture of Cann in his Whitecaps jersey and it got me thinking: the coaching staff must've known that the Whitecaps, of all teams, know how relatively immobile Cann is.

So maybe they were trying to cede Vancouver the right wing, thinking they could set up to specifically defend a lot of traffic from that corner/side.

If you think that's where their weakest service is going to come from, I can see a coach trying it.

Of course, our weakest defending was on the back post and in the middle of the field (although Cann was no great shakes), so a team playing direct soccer, like Vancouver, is basically going to try to hit any weakspot, not look for controlled, channeled play.

I think it might just have been a horrendous tactical error. It's the only potential explanation I can think of.

denime
03-23-2011, 11:00 AM
First two goals came from his side,cross and pass.

Darlofletch
03-23-2011, 11:10 AM
both of them after Cann went up with Hassli to try and win the initial long ball from their goalie, which is surely the centre back's job.

if they did want to get vancouver to go down the right side, they did a bloody good job of making it as inviting as possible.

Roogsy
03-23-2011, 11:11 AM
I honestly think it was a lesson Winter was trying to give Cann. From what I understand, Winter has installed a hardline atmosphere in the locker room and this could be evidence of that kind of management.

backbeat
03-23-2011, 11:12 AM
Anyone else think maybe Adrian Cann playing LB was a "feint" -- an attempt to misdirect by channeling Vancouver's play in a particular direction, to limit their options?

Technorgasm posted a picture of Cann in his Whitecaps jersey and it got me thinking: the coaching staff must've known that the Whitecaps, of all teams, know how relatively immobile Cann is.

So maybe they were trying to cede Vancouver the right wing, thinking they could set up to specifically defend a lot of traffic from that corner/side.

If you think that's where their weakest service is going to come from, I can see a coach trying it.

Of course, our weakest defending was on the back post and in the middle of the field (although Cann was no great shakes), so a team playing direct soccer, like Vancouver, is basically going to try to hit any weakspot, not look for controlled, channeled play.

I think it might just have been a horrendous tactical error. It's the only potential explanation I can think of.

i can't imagine a coach purposely weakening his team as a tactic - i really don't think so.

i wish someone would ask Winter why he chose that back-line - i'd really like to hear the reasoning.

reggie
03-23-2011, 11:17 AM
i was shocked he didnt start yoursky at left back..he played there the most in pre season.

backbeat
03-23-2011, 11:19 AM
I honestly think it was a lesson Winter was trying to give Cann. From what I understand, Winter has installed a hardline atmosphere in the locker room and this could be evidence of that kind of management.

but what lesson?

Beach_Red
03-23-2011, 11:22 AM
I honestly think it was a lesson Winter was trying to give Cann. From what I understand, Winter has installed a hardline atmosphere in the locker room and this could be evidence of that kind of management.


And what message is that? The team doesn't mind losing as long as everyone does as they're told? Would anyone on the team still be listening after, "The team doesn't mind losing..." This isn't some kids' game, people paid money to go to this game. Cann is what, 30 years old, he's a grown man. Why not treat him like one? He was already humiliated in the press conference, to extend that out onto the field is beyond petty.

I couldn't watch the whole game, did this "tactical decision" go on for the full 90 minutes? How long does it take to make a point? Why are TFC coaches always so stubborn?

Phil
03-23-2011, 11:22 AM
but what lesson?

Don't walk away from the team and assume that your spot won't be taken?

Just a guess.

Technorgasm
03-23-2011, 11:23 AM
the set piece goal was a total curfuffle, a missed clearance
the second down to bad positioning and (someone) completley whiffing the easy clearance to leave a man alone infront of goal.

early days yet lads, every team in the MLS works on defence from weeks 0-7. . . then tweak the offence. .

tfc's play this year is better to watch (so far) and the plan seems to be.
SCORE MORE THAN THEM.
I like.

DangerRed
03-23-2011, 11:25 AM
A feint works only if it channels the foe into a trap. We had nothing even resembling a strong defensive stance built strictly for the purpose of picking up the ball after its channeled through Cann's weak defending. If that's what made Winter play Cann at LB, it's a horrid tactic, so I think it's not true, especially since Vancouver really made it rain from that side.

The system Winter is trying to play needs players who can slot in as needed when another player is pulled out of their regular position. Part of this is knowing how to play as a switcher, from wing to wing, CB-LB-RB, and so forth.

I think he wanted to put Cann under pressure and make him have a really tough game to sort of tell him "if you think you're such hot shit, prove your worth out of position."

backbeat
03-23-2011, 11:25 AM
And what message is that? The team doesn't mind losing as long as everyone does as they're told? Would anyone on the team still be listening after, "The team doesn't mind losing..." This isn't some kids' game, people paid money to go to this game. Cann is what, 30 years old, he's a grown man. Why not treat him like one? He was already humiliated in the press conference, to extend that out onto the field is beyond petty.

I couldn't watch the whole game, did this "tactical decision" go on for the full 90 minutes? How long does it take to make a point? Why are TFC coaches always so stubborn?

that's assuming it was a message - i'd really like some reporter to ask Winter, "why did you start Cann at LB instead of the centre?" straight forward - i think it's weird no one's asked that yet.

Milky
03-23-2011, 11:26 AM
I can only assume that he didn't want to go with youth, which is a bit of an odd thing to say about Winter, but maybe he saw something in training. I don't know. But I'd like to see what Omphroy and Morgan can do in a league match.

trane
03-23-2011, 11:27 AM
Personally, I suspect that he wanted a solid defender on the left, so he tried Cann out, he is a solid defender by MLS standards, but he is just to slow to play on the wing, even if he is expected just to stay at home. He tried it did not work, lets see if it happens again.

Pachuco
03-23-2011, 11:27 AM
Anyone else think maybe Adrian Cann playing LB was a "feint" -- an attempt to misdirect by channeling Vancouver's play in a particular direction, to limit their options?

Technorgasm posted a picture of Cann in his Whitecaps jersey and it got me thinking: the coaching staff must've known that the Whitecaps, of all teams, know how relatively immobile Cann is.

So maybe they were trying to cede Vancouver the right wing, thinking they could set up to specifically defend a lot of traffic from that corner/side.

If you think that's where their weakest service is going to come from, I can see a coach trying it.

Of course, our weakest defending was on the back post and in the middle of the field (although Cann was no great shakes), so a team playing direct soccer, like Vancouver, is basically going to try to hit any weakspot, not look for controlled, channeled play.

I think it might just have been a horrendous tactical error. It's the only potential explanation I can think of.

But even if everything you say explains why he started at LB, nothing explains why he finished the game at LB. It's one thing to make a tactical error, it's another to not recognize it at half time and adjust.

backbeat
03-23-2011, 11:28 AM
Personally, I suspect that he wanted a solid defender on the left, so he tried Cann out, he is a solid defender by MLS standards, but he is just to slow to play on the wing, even if he is expected just to stay at home. He tried it did not work, lets see if it happens again.

personally i think this seems the most logical answer

Beach_Red
03-23-2011, 11:31 AM
The system Winter is trying to play needs players who can slot in as needed when another player is pulled out of their regular position. Part of this is knowing how to play as a switcher, from wing to wing, CB-LB-RB, and so forth.



So, what happens if he can't bring in players capable of doing this? Cann is a good example of a guy who was willing to walk off the team, that was a good opportunity to upgrade to one of these players who can be slotted in as needed.

jloome
03-23-2011, 11:35 AM
But even if everything you say explains why he started at LB, nothing explains why he finished the game at LB. It's one thing to make a tactical error, it's another to not recognize it at half time and adjust.

Maybe a combo of both making that side more inviting and believing Cann could give reasonable cover, not expecting a complete collapse.

But you're right, it would take some serious arrogance not to change things up at half time.

jloome
03-23-2011, 11:35 AM
Personally, I suspect that he wanted a solid defender on the left, so he tried Cann out, he is a solid defender by MLS standards, but he is just to slow to play on the wing, even if he is expected just to stay at home. He tried it did not work, lets see if it happens again.

Probably right.

trane
03-23-2011, 11:37 AM
So, what happens if he can't bring in players capable of doing this? Cann is a good example of a guy who was willing to walk off the team, that was a good opportunity to upgrade to one of these players who can be slotted in as needed.


CBs need to be able to move up and sideways when needed, but still it is different then acctualy being played on the wing. Pace is needed.

trane
03-23-2011, 11:38 AM
Probably right.

I just think that is such a lack of guys who can play solid basic defence that Winter may be a bit desperate.

Beach_Red
03-23-2011, 11:42 AM
But you're right, it would take some serious arrogance not to change things up at half time.


That's the most frustrating thing about this because that's what we've seen so much with TFC under every one of their coaches. So often in the past we've seen the other team making adjustments at the half and playing differently and TFC playing exactly the same and giving up late goals and losing.

Of course, this was the guy's first regular season game coaching in MLS so we shouldn't read too much into it.

And, I keep reminding myself, these were the first two goals TFC scored in Vancouver so that's something....

Sweeper
03-23-2011, 11:44 AM
I think the more important question is why did he start Harden in the middle? Perhaps he was most consistent in preseason and didn't leave the team because of a contract dispute so was rewarded with the spot. Seem to recall Harden coughing up balls/goals in the center position last year. He is barely a depth player and shouldn't be starting. Disagree with Winter using a "feint" - As far as I'm concerned we are week on both sides.

DangerRed
03-23-2011, 11:50 AM
So, what happens if he can't bring in players capable of doing this? Cann is a good example of a guy who was willing to walk off the team, that was a good opportunity to upgrade to one of these players who can be slotted in as needed.

You know full well what happens, because it's happening right now. We have a system that demands versatile talent and we have players who aren't versatile or overly talented, especially on the defensive side of things.

So what you get is results like what we saw last weekend. Until our backline problems are solved, great defensive sides like NY or RSL will be virtually unbeatable to us. What good will a goal or two be to us when they can put away three or four?

As I've said, we had to get used to low-scoring losses under Preki. Now, at least until we acquire the quality needed to play effectively in Winter's system, we have to get used to high-scoring losses under Winter. Case in point: Vancouver 4:2 Toronto.

dantdot
03-23-2011, 12:10 PM
I refuse to believe he was trying to send any message, that seems way too petty. I'm sure it was a tactical decision gone awry. I bet Yourass starts left-back this weekend and we look a lot better.

Pachuco
03-23-2011, 12:13 PM
I refuse to believe he was trying to send any message, that seems way too petty. I'm sure it was a tactical decision gone awry. I bet Yourass starts left-back this weekend and we look a lot better.

Yeah, it doesn't even make sense. You punish a player by playing him out of position? There is no message in that. If you want to send a message, put him on the bench.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-23-2011, 12:23 PM
could also be testing how good he is in that position, i wouldnt rule that out, especially as they had little time together in the preseason

Wull
03-23-2011, 12:29 PM
Yeah, it doesn't even make sense. You punish a player by playing him out of position? There is no message in that. If you want to send a message, put him on the bench.

I'm glad somebody said it, we're the ones that ended up getting punished by him playing LB

oxygenatedbrain
03-23-2011, 01:12 PM
How about: since Yourassowsky was only cleared to play Friday evening (presumably his ITC came through then), they had to prepare all week for his absence; Winter doesn't trust (and shouldn't have done) young Morgan's touch in an MLS debut on a possibly slippery artificial surface; and thought Cann the least worst option, whether or not he was "teaching him a lesson", having played him there previous game...and after a week of practice thought maybe it would hold up. Or not.

los sonadores
03-23-2011, 06:04 PM
Cann looked uncomfortable playing at LB in the last preseason game and he said nearly as much publicly. I was really surprised to see him still there in Vancouver.

Is is also a bit of the Dutch mindset/ideal of all players needing to be more generally fluid and interchangeable... or is that myth? Somehow, Winter asking Cann to play LB seems less zany than, say, if Carver asked the same.

I'd like to see him ask Attakora play the Right and use Cann as a backup. But that would mean two new CB's and that ain't gonna happen soon. Be interesting to see who the back four is next year.

Alonso
03-23-2011, 06:34 PM
but what lesson?


Or, if Winter has been in a disagreement with Mariner and/or Anselmi about how good the backline is... Like Winter is demanding more guys for the backline, and the others are saying the backline is decent.

In this circumstance the coach could see it neccessary to show exactly how weak the backline is by playing them in different postions to demonstrate under no uncertain terms that most of them are one dimensional and must be moved.

This is another possibility.

trane
03-23-2011, 06:50 PM
Cann looked uncomfortable playing at LB in the last preseason game and he said nearly as much publicly. I was really surprised to see him still there in Vancouver.

Is is also a bit of the Dutch mindset/ideal of all players needing to be more generally fluid and interchangeable... or is that myth? Somehow, Winter asking Cann to play LB seems less zany than, say, if Carver asked the same.

I'd like to see him ask Attakora play the Right and use Cann as a backup. But that would mean two new CB's and that ain't gonna happen soon. Be interesting to see who the back four is next year.


I think the interchancheble thing is overstated, I think, look at the tacticcs thread, and I think in the 4-3-3 thread the roles are defined. Players have roles in every aspect of the game but not interchangeble. A CB would be expected to push up and take a DMs role, of move to the side and take the fullbakc spot, but he is hardly going to have to play like the LFW, or a AM.

Skinner
03-23-2011, 07:19 PM
I think he wanted to put Cann under pressure and make him have a really tough game to sort of tell him "if you think you're such hot shit, prove your worth out of position."

This makes a whole lotta sense to me.