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Ossington Mental Youth
03-20-2011, 10:51 AM
I gotta say that first 20-25 minutes was some football ive never seen once with this team within the last 5 years, really made me happy and proud, looks like we are headed in the right direction provided we keep upping the ante.

Martina looked pretty decent as did Santos, actually really wanna see more from Zavarise and im looking forward to Bouchiba and DeGuzman working together.
Still trying to figure out what Zavarise's natural position is...

Cashcleaner
03-20-2011, 11:05 AM
I hear exactly what you're saying. It looked like initially we were settling down and playing a good possession game. The Whitecaps were fairly aggressive, but we seemed to have handled them quite well. Santos did...alright. And Martina was a bit of a surprise, I'll agree.

The difference between the 1st and 2nd halves were astounding, I thought.

ArmenJBX
03-20-2011, 11:07 AM
Stefan Frei (of course), De Rosario, Maicon Santos, Javier Martina, Yourassowsky and Zavarise performed well.
Jacob Peterson, Dan Gargan and sometimes Nathan Sturgis, they were decent.
Defensive line of Nana, Harden, Cann sucked.

Fort York Redcoat
03-20-2011, 11:10 AM
Agreed, Ossy. I enjoyed that game at 1-1 and look forward to a more successful use of the style we're using next week v Portland.

TorontoGooner
03-20-2011, 11:10 AM
Never wanting to just lump it up field. It was great to watch Frei roll the ball out his hands instead of just clearing it upfield. Will be a long season, but the ethos is there

jabbronies
03-20-2011, 11:22 AM
A lot of passing in the first 30 minutes. We had something like 61% of the possesion in that span.

jloome
03-20-2011, 11:27 AM
Yeah, glad somebody started this thread. THe instant win crowd is turning the post-game thread into a somewhat unproductive rant about conditions and issues that precede the present coach, system and lineup.

Do our owners suck? Yes, sometimes they do. Did the team look, offensively, more organized than at any time I can remember. Oh yeah.

Anyone who thinks 60% possession is just due to "passing it around in our own end" is ignoring the fact that we had 14 shots yesterday, including a good swath on goal. We had chances, to score three or four. We didn't. They did.

We had Sturgis and Gargan starting and neither is good enough. Fixable.
We had Cann playing wide. Fixable, but a bit worrisome.

I thought we played all right in the first half, had the much better of the ball and basically brain farted twice. The second half was a shambles.

But the ethos was there, as you say. If people couldn't see improvement yesterday, I'd blame "binary opposition" -- they want to be in a group that suits their current petulant mood, so everyone's piling on.

[NBF]
03-20-2011, 11:30 AM
There's a new roster update on "The Next Year Roster Thread"

Basically, we dont look that bad, we just need a few weeks to gel together and we need to avoid doing the same mistake as the last game which is to start a 3 man midfield vs a 5 man midfield as well avoid putting together Cann and Harden in the same sentence.

New Roster Update doesnt look bad at all, we just need a back up goalkeeper, a better back up centre back than Ty Harden, a back up left back to make up for the inexperience of Ashton Morgan, a back up left winger to cover for Martina, and right winger/striker to back up Peterson and provide some cover Makubuya's inexperience.

All of these backup players would have to be American considering we don't have room to sign any internationals anymore.

New Roster Depth:


----------------------------------Frei---------------------------------
----------------------------------Kosic--------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gargan-----------Attakora-----------------Cann------Yourassowsky
[Omphroy]----------Harden------------------Henry--------------Morgan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------DeGuzman----------------------------
---------------------------------Sturgis-------------------------------
----------------------------------Gold---------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------Bouchiba-----------------DeRosario---------------
--------------------Soolsma------------------Zavarise-----------------
--------------------Cordon--------------------Stinson-----------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Peterson------------------------------------------------------Martina
Makubuya------------------------------------------------------(Lindsay)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------Santos-----------------------------
-----------------------------------Gordon-----------------------------

ag futbol
03-20-2011, 11:30 AM
A lot of passing in the first 30 minutes. We had something like 61% of the possesion in that span.
Where did you find the possession stats .. did not see them anywhere

I thought Santos was the most impressive overall. He did well to pick the ball up in tight spaces, hold it up and find an outlet. Thought Martina was ok and Dero was in usual form.

Yourassowsky also impressed me going forward. Think he needs to be incorporated somehow in a way that minimizes his defensive responsibilities.

ManUtd4ever
03-20-2011, 11:32 AM
Yeah, glad somebody started this thread. THe instant win crowd is turning the post-game thread into a somewhat unproductive rant about conditions and issues that precede the present coach, system and lineup.

Do our owners suck? Yes, sometimes they do. Did the team look, offensively, more organized than at any time I can remember. Oh yeah.

Anyone who thinks 60% possession is just due to "passing it around in our own end" is ignoring the fact that we had 14 shots yesterday, including a good swath on goal. We had chances, to score three or four. We didn't. They did.

We had Sturgis and Gargan starting and neither is good enough. Fixable.
We had Cann playing wide. Fixable, but a bit worrisome.

I thought we played all right in the first half, had the much better of the ball and basically brain farted twice. The second half was a shambles.

But the ethos was there, as you say. If people couldn't see improvement yesterday, I'd blame "binary opposition" -- they want to be in a group that suits their current petulant mood, so everyone's piling on.

My sentiments exactly...

Eastend
03-20-2011, 11:33 AM
I liked the possession play. Too many times back to Frei for my liking though. It will take time but I see the possibilities.

No standouts for me.

Fushida
03-20-2011, 11:34 AM
Yeah, glad somebody started this thread. THe instant win crowd is turning the post-game thread into a somewhat unproductive rant about conditions and issues that precede the present coach, system and lineup.

Do our owners suck? Yes, sometimes they do. Did the team look, offensively, more organized than at any time I can remember. Oh yeah.

Anyone who thinks 60% possession is just due to "passing it around in our own end" is ignoring the fact that we had 14 shots yesterday, including a good swath on goal. We had chances, to score three or four. We didn't. They did.

We had Sturgis and Gargan starting and neither is good enough. Fixable.
We had Cann playing wide. Fixable, but a bit worrisome.

I thought we played all right in the first half, had the much better of the ball and basically brain farted twice. The second half was a shambles.

But the ethos was there, as you say. If people couldn't see improvement yesterday, I'd blame "binary opposition" -- they want to be in a group that suits their current petulant mood, so everyone's piling on.

it's the mob mentality of the internet. people just want to be "right". what better way to do that than agreeing with what most others have already agreed to?

61% possession is never a bad thing, the defensive lapses and failed offside traps are, but they can be worked on. i don't see how anyone can draw the conclusion that the season is forfeit after this match. personally i think if we're sticking to a slow-as-molasses backline like the one we had yesterday, they need to be playing deeper. since Winter's using this build from the back philosophy anyways, it's not a problem if the midfielders can drop a bit deeper to collect the ball, and prevent exploitation of an advanced defensive line when in the attacking third.

Whoop
03-20-2011, 11:36 AM
I thought Martina was very good in the 1st half not so much in the 2nd. Once Vancouver put one guy, or sometimes two guys, he was neutralized.

Soolsma had some moments but ultimately he was too slow at times. But I did like his fight. He was one of the few guys who fought for the ball and he did come back to help the defenders.

Yourassowksy looked good when he came in, as well as Zavarise. I thought other than the first 20 minutes when those two were on - in place of Sturgis and Peterson, naturally - TFC looked okay. But then again, Vancouver had already subbed out their best player at the half in Chiumiento.

Yohan
03-20-2011, 11:38 AM
I thought Martina was very good in the 1st half not so much in the 2nd. Once Vancouver put one guy, or sometimes two guys, he was neutralized.

He's like the new Rohan Ricketts... Even how to neutralize him

I was impressed with Maicon Santos and if he keeps up his good play, I am going to end up eating my word

Whoop
03-20-2011, 11:40 AM
Maicon, in my opinion, was TFC's best player last night. Quality feed on DeRo's goal and sublime strike.

I think Martina will end up being a better player than Ricketts though.

dupont
03-20-2011, 11:42 AM
I liked Maicon Santos a lot. Also, the game was a lot more interesting to watch than most of last season even with the horrible result.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-20-2011, 11:44 AM
Where did you find the possession stats .. did not see them anywhere


they showed em at halftime and then again at the end from what i remember

rocker
03-20-2011, 11:44 AM
I actually didn't think they passed it around at the back as much as some critics are saying. At the beginning there were a few times when they did, but I felt they got it to midfield relatively quickly.
They looked smarter too, with some good give-and-gos. I also noted much harder, crisper passes from all the players. Not those softballs we were used to that allowed other teams to crowd the recipient before receiving the ball.

It felt like they were following the game plan for the first 30 minutes pretty well, but that they let themselves down in the middle part. Final 20 minutes they also came back to that style, putting together some nice combinations going forward (one that lead to Makubuya almost creating something).

That second goal by Hassli wasn't anything special on Hassli's part. As noted on the broadcast, a whole bunch of defenders just feel asleep when they thought it was offside. Can you really believe that Nana couldn't catch up to Hassli, who was actually behind the defenders when his teammate got released? Nana is pretty fast. But anybody could have tracked him and let Frei deal with the player with the ball. The defenders just fell asleep, nothing to do with strategy.

Santos was decent, same with De Ro. Zavarise looked promising, as mentioned above.

I didn't see all negatives in it. For good portions of the game TFC looked confident in possession.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-20-2011, 11:45 AM
I thought Martina was very good in the 1st half not so much in the 2nd. Once Vancouver put one guy, or sometimes two guys, he was neutralized.


saw this too and i think thisll be a problem in the future BUT! i do think winter will find away around it (basically having others play up and around him, gotta remember Cann was behind him and i dont think we're likely to see that again soon)

Ossington Mental Youth
03-20-2011, 11:46 AM
Glad to see im not alone in this

kaos197O
03-20-2011, 11:48 AM
Where did you find the possession stats .. did not see them anywhere

I thought Santos was the most impressive overall. He did well to pick the ball up in tight spaces, hold it up and find an outlet. Thought Martina was ok and Dero was in usual form.

Yourassowsky also impressed me going forward. Think he needs to be incorporated somehow in a way that minimizes his defensive responsibilities.
That will happen once JDG is back in the picture. I think you'll see Yourassowsky all over the left side of the pitch then, as JDG will provide the back up we would need for him to push forward. He has good pace and made a great heads up pass to find Maicon alone in the middle when he fired in that rocket!

I am looking forward to seeing the season play out. More so than ever, after last night.

rocker
03-20-2011, 11:49 AM
The key thing is to fix problems. Problems will always exist on every team in MLS. No team can throw money to solve issues, like the Yankees in baseball.

This team may exhibit similar issues to past teams, like poor defense. The key is where they go from now. Do you trust Mariner/Winter to solve those problems unlike the previous regime? That's the question.

Serb_Star
03-20-2011, 11:52 AM
Maicon was great, Dero was also good but I didn't think that either of them got the ball enough in the first half, for some reason we kept giving the ball to Soolsma who clearly isn't good enough for this league.

Martina was alright, I'm not sold on him yet.

kaos197O
03-20-2011, 11:52 AM
Do you trust Mariner/Winter to solve those problems unlike the previous regime? T

I do!

jloome
03-20-2011, 11:54 AM
The key thing is to fix problems. Problems will always exist on every team in MLS. No team can throw money to solve issues, like the Yankees in baseball.

This team may exhibit similar issues to past teams, like poor defense. The key is where they go from now. Do you trust Mariner/Winter to solve those problems unlike the previous regime? That's the question.

My one big concern is Marriner's lack of productivity to far. Surely a journeyman like Yourassowsky isn't the best he could find.

kaos197O
03-20-2011, 11:56 AM
Maicon was great, Dero was also good but I didn't think that either of them got the ball enough in the first half, for some reason we kept giving the ball to Soolsma who clearly isn't good enough for this league.

Martina was alright, I'm not sold on him yet.
Winter said in one of his interviews (prior to signing this kid) that he felt that the league is too physical for him. Seeing as they signed him anyways, I have to assume that they believe that he can, at some point, deal with the physicality of the league. I hope so. We'll see!

Whoop
03-20-2011, 11:56 AM
Found possession died a few too many times with DeRo and Soolsma yesterday, they weren't in sync, which made them both look worse.

Sturgis and Peterson were the worst culprits though. Like I said, once those two were out of the lineup you could see the difference with guys like Yourassowksy and Zavarise.

lazlo_80
03-20-2011, 12:00 PM
One thing I loved, is that this did feel like a new system. Yeah they didn't get it right the first time, but who expected them to?

This feels like what I was waiting for last year. Even though we lost, there is vision and thought there from the coaches. Something I think was lacking in the past.

ag futbol
03-20-2011, 12:00 PM
Honestly, I think we are a few players away from being a bubble playoff team, the only issue is our problems are inverted from where they were previously (ie. in the back as opposed to the front).

I wonder if David Edgar can finally be counted on to remove his head from his ass and accept a loan to a place where he will actually get playing time. Kid is going to ruin his career with bench rot for the sake of getting few decent paydays. I think he would go a long way to solving our problems.

ManUtd4ever
03-20-2011, 12:11 PM
I was generally impressed with the play of the new additions to the lineup, with the exceptions of Soolsma and Sturgis. The players that didn't seem to work well within the system were incumbent players such as Harden, Gargan, Peterson, and Cann, although he was out of position.

In contrast to last season, the trialists that were signed in the offseason seem capable of making an impact. In that sense, I am optimistic that Winter and Mariner will be able to field a competitive side over time as they continue to build the squad with players they have identified and shed the dead weight from the previous regime.

jloome
03-20-2011, 07:06 PM
Hard to stay out of that thread, toxically ridiculous though it may be. Too much passion, not enough thinkin'

Alonso
03-20-2011, 07:20 PM
I'm impressed with all the posts in this thread. More level headed analysis. Their were lots of bright spots that have already been pointed out.

I give props to DeRo, Santos, and Martina for playing well. I think our deficienies can be addressed in short order and that we've never in our history, as far as I can remember had 63% possession in a half before. That says a lot to me.

Alonso
03-20-2011, 07:24 PM
OH, and also want to say that what's killed this team over the years has been the coach and player revolving door.

THIS ABOVE ALL HAS TO STOP, and I hope that the FO can actually stick with a plan for more then 1 year. They really need to let Winter and company do their jobs and give them the time and space to do it. (like minimum 2 years)

I'm worried they're (FO) reading the other threads and will react like they have in the past.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-20-2011, 07:34 PM
Hard to stay out of that thread, toxically ridiculous though it may be. Too much passion, not enough thinkin'

reading that thread is like screaming at the wall.
anyways enough about that thread, only room for positivity here!