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Nodoubtguy
03-17-2011, 01:36 PM
as reported by Luke Wileman


LukeWileman (http://twitter.com/#%21/LukeWileman) Luke Wileman

#torontofc (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23torontofc) announce signing of four players from the Academy. Stinson, Cordon, Makubuya and Morgan

2 minutes ago (http://twitter.com/#%21/LukeWileman/status/48451855201746944)
and now on Torontofc.ca
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/03/toronto-fc-academy-graduates-four-more

ArmenJBX
03-17-2011, 01:40 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYDkGJmSfy0

...

How do I embed? :(

BeerBaron95
03-17-2011, 01:43 PM
There ya go

eYDkGJmSfy0

Alonso
03-17-2011, 01:44 PM
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/%3Cobject%20style=%22height:%20390px;%20width:%206 40px%22%3E%3Cparam%20name=%22movie%22%20value=%22h ttp://www.youtube.com/v/eYDkGJmSfy0?version=3%22%3E%3Cparam%20name=%22allo wFullScreen%22%20value=%22true%22%3E%3Cparam%20nam e=%22allowScriptAccess%22%20value=%22always%22%3E% 3Cembed%20src=%22http://www.youtube.com/v/eYDkGJmSfy0?version=3%22%20type=%22application/x-shockwave-flash%22%20allowfullscreen=%22true%22%20allowScrip tAccess=%22always%22%20width=%22640%22%20height=%2 2390%22%3E%3C/object%3E

rocker
03-17-2011, 01:46 PM
three Mississauga products. Mississauga reprazent!!!

ArmenJBX
03-17-2011, 01:46 PM
There ya go

eYDkGJmSfy0

Well...there it is! :D

good...good... :\

BeerBaron95
03-17-2011, 01:46 PM
http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/%3Cobject%20style=%22height:%20390px;%20width:%206 40px%22%3E%3Cparam%20name=%22movie%22%20value=%22h ttp://www.youtube.com/v/eYDkGJmSfy0?version=3%22%3E%3Cparam%20name=%22allo wFullScreen%22%20value=%22true%22%3E%3Cparam%20nam e=%22allowScriptAccess%22%20value=%22always%22%3E% 3Cembed%20src=%22http://www.youtube.com/v/eYDkGJmSfy0?version=3%22%20type=%22application/x-shockwave-flash%22%20allowfullscreen=%22true%22%20allowScrip tAccess=%22always%22%20width=%22640%22%20height=%2 2390%22%3E%3C/object%3E

ummmmmmmm... nope

Stouffville_RPB
03-17-2011, 01:46 PM
After seeing Lindsay last year and the glimpses of Henry, Cordon and Morgan academy signings are actually the ones I get more excited about.

Congrats to the lads and do us proud!!! :scarf:

Serb_Star
03-17-2011, 01:46 PM
I didn't get the impression that any of them could help us this season but it's still good to give Academy players a shot.

Stryker
03-17-2011, 01:49 PM
Ethier our academy kicks ass or our first team is really hurtin.
I'm leaning towards the latter of the two. :(

Stouffville_RPB
03-17-2011, 01:50 PM
Ethier our academy kicks ass or our first team is really hurtin.
I'm leaning towards the latter of the two. :(

Probably true but it's better than signing over priced euro's just to fill the roster.

mastermixer
03-17-2011, 01:51 PM
Good news! So what number does that bring the roster to?

kaos197O
03-17-2011, 01:53 PM
After seeing Lindsay last year and the glimpses of Henry, Cordon and Morgan academy signings are actually the ones I get more excited about.

Congrats to the lads and do us proud!!! :scarf:

I have to say it. If MO was good for anything then I guess it would have to have been on the Academy front. That's 6 or 7 now right. Not a Mo fan, just saying it wasn't all for nothing.

Cas87
03-17-2011, 01:56 PM
three Mississauga products. Mississauga reprazent!!!

does this mean a 'sauga flag is comin out? :)

ArmenJBX
03-17-2011, 01:58 PM
We're doing this fucking right. In 3 years, this league is going to be ours.
Easily we're the youngest team in this league, and as a squad, we'll develop these players together with a uniform system in mind.

I have a feeling our real stars are going to be Cordon and Stinson as opposed to De Rosario and de Guzman, in the long run.

denime
03-17-2011, 02:05 PM
Toronto FC announced Thursday that they have signed four players from their Academy. Defender Ashtone Morgan, midfielders Oscar Cordon, Matt Stinson, and forward Keith Makubuya will all be making the step up to the First Team. They will be added to the roster as Home Grown Players.

Good news,now younger kids have something to look forward.

Shway
03-17-2011, 02:05 PM
short term Long run NO
long run long run Cordon yes, Stinson maybe

because DeRo Deguz wont be there in the long run lol

brad
03-17-2011, 02:06 PM
Let's hope these four are integrated in the first team properly and not thrown off the deep end too soon.

I have faith with Winter on this one, he is going to know youth development. But with the squad as thin as it is, he may have no choice.

TFC07
03-17-2011, 02:20 PM
We're doing this fucking right. In 3 years, this league is going to be ours.
Easily we're the youngest team in this league, and as a squad, we'll develop these players together with a uniform system in mind.

I have a feeling our real stars are going to be Cordon and Stinson as opposed to De Rosario and de Guzman, in the long run.

As long we keep our players, then yeah we are going to be few teams that is going to own this league. TFC lucky to have a huge pool of soccer players available unlike Vancouver who can't no longer get Ontario kids playing in their academy because MLS restriction/ territory rules.

TFCRegina
03-17-2011, 02:22 PM
Good news,now younger kids have something to look forward.

And they're cap exempt. Meaning Winter can go out and splurge on other players, because he isn't counting 40k (minimum) against the cap for each player (that's 160+ k to play around with).

Shway
03-17-2011, 02:25 PM
(not a competition)

toronto fc, and fc dallas have the most hg in the league with 6 a piece

Globetrotter
03-17-2011, 02:25 PM
I have a feeling our real stars are going to be Cordon and Stinson as opposed to De Rosario and de Guzman, in the long run.

You also think Peterson is a respectable player. All jokes aside, he's bad.

flamehawk
03-17-2011, 02:27 PM
I wonder if we're looking to sign Aleman at all.

BayernTFC
03-17-2011, 02:27 PM
now younger kids have something to look forward.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the initial signings from the Academy had something to do with this. It's a practical way to show youth, and their parents, the development path that the organization can offer. Competition for young talent can be fierce.

ArmenJBX
03-17-2011, 02:29 PM
You also think Peterson is a respectable player. All jokes aside, he's bad.

We'll see ;)

Cordon and Stinson remind me of our very own Xavi and Iniesta, in that they're going to grow up playing our system. When they're in their mid 20's, I have a feeling we'll have a pair of MLS all-stars.

ManUtd4ever
03-17-2011, 02:32 PM
And they're cap exempt. Meaning Winter can go out and splurge on other players, because he isn't counting 40k (minimum) against the cap for each player (that's 160+ k to play around with).

Yes, this is key. If the Academy can continue to produce talented players that are good enough for the first team/reserve team, that will allow greater financial flexibility for management in augmenting the roster with experienced players.

TFCRegina
03-17-2011, 02:34 PM
One interesting thing is we're definitely the youngest club in the league now. The average age excluding JDG, De Ro and Bouchiba was 24 before these signings. That's going to plummet some more. I think if you include all the player, our club is probably average age of 24 now.

It's good the club is focusing on youth. I'm sick and tired of half done re-building jobs. I'd rather we go with youth and have one or two more years of difficulties before the system is built properly than have another mediocre season, with no system, no real objectives other than making playoffs - which we haven't done in the past.

Anything is preferable to the old re-building model.

Whoop
03-17-2011, 02:35 PM
I concur.

I figure Winter will work the kids into the rotation throughout the season.

ArmenJBX
03-17-2011, 02:37 PM
I wonder if we're going to sign anyone tomorrow? Or anyone else at all..

BayernTFC
03-17-2011, 02:39 PM
Cordon and Stinson remind me of our very own Xavi and Iniesta, in that they're going to grow up playing our system. When they're in their mid 20's, I have a feeling we'll have a pair of MLS all-stars.
Wow. That's a lot of pressure you're heaping on those two young guys. Why not just relax a bit and watch them develop? They've shown some good signs, but they're still raw. Barcelona goes through a lot of young players before a Xavi or Iniesta are churned out.

ArmenJBX
03-17-2011, 02:43 PM
I don't mean we have two world player of the years on our hands :D
I just meant we have midfielders who will play our system as comfortably and as familiarly as the back of their hands

BayernTFC
03-17-2011, 02:48 PM
I wonder if we're looking to sign Aleman at all.
I don't think he's even 17 years old yet. He's got time.

Stouffville_RPB
03-17-2011, 02:49 PM
I wouldn't be surprised at all if the initial signings from the Academy had something to do with this. It's a practical way to show youth, and their parents, the development path that the organization can offer. Competition for young talent can be fierce.

Good point but it only works if the kids not only make the jump to the senior squad but also are able to perform at this level.

I like that they are cap exempt. I think that with a roster salary cap lower than Jeff Finger's annual income there has to be added benefit for clubs to wants to spend money in areas other than the senior team. It forces clubs to look at how things are done around the world instead of just looking at other North American sports.

DavydMT
03-17-2011, 02:52 PM
well done, should be interesting to see how far this kids can take it.

:flare:Be at the Academy games:flare:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5214/5469317468_582457a1b7.jpg

brad
03-17-2011, 02:52 PM
And they're cap exempt. Meaning Winter can go out and splurge on other players, because he isn't counting 40k (minimum) against the cap for each player (that's 160+ k to play around with).

How does this work again with signing academy players (cap hit, roster slots)?

BayernTFC
03-17-2011, 02:53 PM
I don't mean we have two world player of the years on our hands :D
I just meant we have midfielders who will play our system as comfortably and as familiarly as the back of their hands
I understand what you meant. I also know what you said:


I have a feeling we'll have a pair of MLS all-stars.
Developing players from your academy with such a high level of return isn't easy. Sometimes producing players who contribute at all is a success. ;)

BayernTFC
03-17-2011, 03:02 PM
Good point but it only works if the kids not only make the jump to the senior squad but also are able to perform at this level.
That's a good point too. That's why it's important not to get sucked into an overselling of what's happening and watch for results. Parents have to be careful and take all of their child's options into account. ;)


I like that they are cap exempt. I think that with a roster salary cap lower than Jeff Finger's annual income there has to be added benefit for clubs to wants to spend money in areas other than the senior team. It forces clubs to look at how things are done around the world instead of just looking at other North American sports.
The design of the academy and its structural use within TFC are necessary developments that look like they are progressing. Good signs for the organization.

prizby
03-17-2011, 03:03 PM
i see cordon developing into a dero skilled player

smtavare
03-17-2011, 03:04 PM
I think this is going to be a long season!

remember season1 with Andrea Lombardo :picard:

Not enough pros I think!

Only time will tell?

TFCRegina
03-17-2011, 03:06 PM
Supposedly two other players in negotiations but we'll see where that goes. No idea who they are or if they're with the academy.

Oldtimer
03-17-2011, 03:07 PM
It's good the club is focusing on youth. I'm sick and tired of half done re-building jobs. I'd rather we go with youth and have one or two more years of difficulties before the system is built properly than have another mediocre season, with no system, no real objectives other than making playoffs - which we haven't done in the past.



That's exactly what they are doing. Based on what I saw while seeing them play in Charleston, the team will look like crap at the beginning of this year, and improve over the year. Year 2, they will probably get significantly better. Year 3, if the Dutch-inspired system works, they should be MLS Cup condenders. No 5 year plan necessary, but there will be definite short-term pain. Very real pain.

menefreghista
03-17-2011, 03:08 PM
Supposedly two other players in negotiations but we'll see where that goes. No idea who they are or if they're with the academy.

Most likely guys already in camp. Draft picks or trialists still left to officially sign.

DangerRed
03-17-2011, 03:08 PM
These four bring us to either 22 or 23 players, can't remember exactly. What I do remember is that Winter said he wants a squad of 23. Don't expect many more signings (if any). I'm hopeful we can at least get a loan deal done for Alen Stevanovic as rumoured.

flamehawk
03-17-2011, 03:14 PM
Supposedly two other players in negotiations but we'll see where that goes. No idea who they are or if they're with the academy.

I am guessing Yourassawski and Plata

Red CB Toronto
03-17-2011, 03:35 PM
The Reds are at 23 players on the roster now including Lyndsey who is out for the season. Plata and Yourassowsky are the next down the shoot from my understanding, both came back with the Reds and trained in Toronto this week. Plata is interesting because he was loaned to the MLS so I am not sure if he actually has to be signed to a contract.

Also Matt Gold, another one of the Reds Super Draft picks is here in Toronto with the team, so I think something about him might be out sometime soon.

NBS
03-17-2011, 03:38 PM
I think this is going to be a long season!

remember season1 with Andrea Lombardo :picard:

Not enough pros I think!

Only time will tell?

That was when roster rules forced us to sign Canadian players, this on the other hand is by choice with players that we've had a very good look at. Not the same at all, albeit I'm sure some or most will fail, there will also be success.

Alonso
03-17-2011, 03:55 PM
ummmmmmmm... nope


LOL I couldn't figure it out...

Care to offer some advice?:D

justin
03-17-2011, 04:57 PM
with makubuya being from my home niagara area, here's a writeup from the st. catharines standard about makubuya from 3 years ago, interesting find

http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=607332

Nicholas982
03-17-2011, 05:03 PM
I wonder if we're looking to sign Aleman at all.


I believe he's still too young to sign, no? Isn't he only 16?

TFC/Everton
03-17-2011, 05:06 PM
Being with the first team all year will help these youngsters. Also, this will inspire the kids still in the Academy to work harder, knowing they can make the big club.

ManUtd4ever
03-17-2011, 05:15 PM
The Academy will be the backbone of this organization for years to come. In the interim, it will be short term pain for long term gain.

kitchener-TFC
03-17-2011, 06:32 PM
I think moving these 4 to the senior team will tremendously benefit them. Instead of playing in the CSL, they'll hopefully get playing time during reserve games. They'll be playing against stronger competition, which in theory should help them improve.

ag futbol
03-17-2011, 06:52 PM
Wow. That's a lot of pressure you're heaping on those two young guys. Why not just relax a bit and watch them develop? They've shown some good signs, but they're still raw. Barcelona goes through a lot of young players before a Xavi or Iniesta are churned out.
Yep, if we get a conversion rate of 33% in the long run that's fairly good.

Still lots of work to be done by these guys before establishing themselves as professionals in the long run. But they're off to a great start.

BeerBaron95
03-17-2011, 07:29 PM
LOL I couldn't figure it out...

Care to offer some advice?:D

ill msg u in your inbox soon.. out right now.. check back in a lil while

Pachuco
03-17-2011, 08:00 PM
Morgan's probably the one that has impressed me the most and the only one that I think we should throw in the fire in the near future. Makubuja is the one that's impressed me the least, in fact, I'll be shocked if he ends up working well under Winter's system. A see alot of Marvell Wynne in him but alot worse.

Cordon and Stinson definately look like they have potential but Cordon in particular needs to gain some strength before he can play with the big boys.

All in all I'm fine with this move in the first year of a rebuild year.

I wouldn't be ok with this if that was year 3 of the rebuild of course. I would expect we are signings kids that will be here for the long run.

sidvan
03-17-2011, 09:59 PM
If this doesn't fill up the academy parking lot tryouts i don't know what will.

BayernTFC
03-17-2011, 10:16 PM
I would expect we are signings kids that will be here for the long run.
You would be well advised to keep your expectations in check. Lots of things can happen during a player's development and there are no guarantees. Does anyone remember the name Giorgio Chirgadze?


Giorgio Chirgadze, the Red Bulls's first home-grown player, has been released by the MLS club, coach Hans Backe said on Tuesday.

Backe would not go into details about Chirgadze's release.http://www.sportsvuesoccer.com/images/upload/Giorgi91609a.jpg
http://www.bigapplesoccer.com/teams/redbulls2.php?article_id=26710


TFC Academy doesn't have a record of producing talent at all yet. Everyone should be familiar with the issues from the first two signings coming out of the academy:


Toronto FC winger Nicholas Lindsay will undergo surgery on Wednesday after suffering a serious knee injury during the offseason.

Lindsay, 18, will require two different surgical procedures over the next few months and is expected to miss the 2011 season. The second surgery is set to take place in four to six months and it is hoped he will then recover in time for the 2012 season.http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/lindsay-expected-miss-2011


It’s never easy for young players to stake their claim for roster spots. Doneil Henry, Toronto FC’s first Academy player to sign a professional contract, isn’t even with the team in Charleston. Sun Media learned Winter was not happy with Henry’s performance while the team was in Turkey. So Henry was left behind in Toronto.http://www.lfpress.com/sports/soccer/2011/03/11/17588651.html

TFCRegina
03-17-2011, 10:46 PM
I wonder if we're looking to sign Aleman at all.

Hope not. He's too small at this time and too young to play in MLS. He'll get physically manhandled if he even saw the pitch and it'd harm his development. Aleman will likely play for TFC Reserves and TFC Senior Academy this year.

Serb_Star
03-17-2011, 10:53 PM
Just look at all the big clubs in the world that fail to produce talented players in their academies, we should temper our expectations.

TFCRegina
03-17-2011, 11:15 PM
Just look at all the big clubs in the world that fail to produce talented players in their academies, we should temper our expectations.

All the big clubs in the world though produce plenty of 2nd and 3rd division talents. And really, we're somewhere between 2nd and 3rd division.

Macksam
03-17-2011, 11:16 PM
Just look at all the big clubs in the world that fail to produce talented players in their academies, we should temper our expectations.
Yeah, but it's also much, much harder to break into the first team at those big clubs. I bet Bojan Krkic or Josh Mceachren could break into MLS sides rather easily.

KezmanCCCC
03-17-2011, 11:55 PM
i thought a club was only able to sign 2 players from thier academy per season.... anyways its good to add young talent/depth to the squad.... Cordon, Morgan and Stinson have all showed quality the past few years with the academy and call ups to the senior sqaud... havent seen to much of Makubuya to be honest... either way a good move by winter....

Cashcleaner
03-18-2011, 12:40 AM
We're doing this fucking right. In 3 years, this league is going to be ours.
Easily we're the youngest team in this league, and as a squad, we'll develop these players together with a uniform system in mind.

I have a feeling our real stars are going to be Cordon and Stinson as opposed to De Rosario and de Guzman, in the long run.

Absolutely. Which is actually why I was hoping we'd get the Academy up and running sooner than we did. There are just so many benefits to in-house player development, and it's even more so when many other clubs in the rest of the league continue to overlook it.

UltraSuperMegaMo
03-18-2011, 01:07 AM
I think of the players signed today that Morgan has the most potential to contributing this year from the bench. Physically, the others look at least a year away.

Stouffville_RPB
03-18-2011, 07:25 AM
I think of the players signed today that Morgan has the most potential to contributing this year from the bench. Physically, the others look at least a year away.

Probably because Morgan is a little older than the other 3.

As for the TFC Academy's record of producing talent. We haven't been around for a long enough time to really have any kind of record. Henry was probably in the first year of the academy.

I think that over time the academy will consistantly produce talent that can compete at this level.

BayernTFC
03-18-2011, 03:07 PM
All the big clubs in the world though produce plenty of 2nd and 3rd division talents. And really, we're somewhere between 2nd and 3rd division.
I want to avoid being sucked into an argument over where MLS quality ranks in comparison to other leagues. With that being said, your response is an apples to oranges comparison imo. The conversation is about the parent team developing talent to be used by their squad. Unless we're talking about TFC Academy's ability to produce talent ready to be sold to NASL, USL Pro or the CSL.

scooterTFC
03-18-2011, 03:14 PM
I'm optimistic about the future of the TFC academy but at this stage 6 academy siginings in a year seems like alot. Especially given the fact the academy had only been aroudn for 3 years. Before declaring the Academy to be a proven player development factory I'd suggest that this glut of signings a one time event in response to the expanded roster change in the MLS combined with depth/cap issuse at TFC.

Going forward I think that the academy system can be a real advantage for the Canadian clubs. With the exception of hoceky, Canada does not have adequate infrastructue and systems in place to develop elite youth athletes for any of the popular team sports.

In the US the soccer competes with basketball, baseball and football for the recruitment of top youth athletes. And in the US soccer is miles behind the other team sports in terms of culture relevance, development infrastructure, and pathways to progression (NCAA athletic scholarships and lucrative pro contracts).

In Canada this is not the case. The MLS academies will provide soccer with better player development programs for elite youth athletes then the other team sports(hockey excepted) and the most direct pathway to career progression. The Canadian MLS academies really have the chance to be the best programs in the North America

BayernTFC
03-18-2011, 03:14 PM
As for the TFC Academy's record of producing talent. We haven't been around for a long enough time to really have any kind of record. Henry was probably in the first year of the academy.

Which would probably make for a good reason to remain cautious with one's expectations for the current graduating class.

Phil
03-18-2011, 03:16 PM
Just remember that the rosters were expanded this year. As well we have a reserve league to play in. So these guys would be at the very least be competing against talent from the other teams and gaining valuable experence for tactics and positioning.

I think its a great sign that management feel that these guys are ready for the next step.

BayernTFC
03-18-2011, 03:27 PM
better player development programs for elite youth athletes then the other team sports(hockey excepted) and the most direct pathway to career progression.
Yes, provided they aren't identified by scouts from bigger clubs and aren't given the opportunity to develop under larger programs in foreign countries.


The Canadian MLS academies really have the chance to be the best programs in the North America
VWFC already have a decent development program. It will be interesting to see if MLS restrictions create any problems for the Whitecaps. The approach taken by the Canadian organizations shows that they don't want to squander the chance that you speak of.

BayernTFC
03-18-2011, 03:36 PM
Just remember that the rosters were expanded this year. As well we have a reserve league to play in. So these guys would be at the very least be competing against talent from the other teams and gaining valuable experence for tactics and positioning.
This should provide young talent with a better opportunity to bridge the gap between the Academy and MLS. Competition should be at a higher level than the CSL and teammates should be more polished.


I think its a great sign that management feel that these guys are ready for the next step.
From what I've seen so far from MLSE ownership and TFC management, I'll choose not to read too much into what has transpired. I'll let actual performance and results do the talking.

Phil
03-18-2011, 03:40 PM
^^^ I hope I am wrong but I think the complexity of this system will take more than a few games to work out.

Its going to be an interesting year, but I think we will see some progress from the first game to the last game.

BayernTFC
03-18-2011, 03:57 PM
^^^ I hope I am wrong but I think the complexity of this system will take more than a few games to work out.
I hope that system complexity isn't just another built in excuse to deflect criticism from under performance. I've never been one of the people demanding the playoffs and wins.


Its going to be an interesting year, but I think we will see some progress from the first game to the last game.
Tomorrow night's game against VWFC will certainly be interesting. Whether it continues to be interesting depends on decision making, progress and performance.