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View Full Version : Time Wasting: A solution?



Pookie
03-14-2011, 07:46 AM
Situation: Time wasting through fake injuries.

Player goes down with injury with intent to stop the play, allow team to reset and/or waste time. Almost always, this is a player from a team that is in the lead.

Player appears near death, medical attention rushes onto the pitch with medical supplies and water for the rest of the team. Player is assisted to the touchline, drinks from the magic bottle and is immediately allowed back onto the pitch.

Current Way of Handling It: Ref adds time

Ideally second for second but the flow of the preceeding play has stopped and the team defending the lead has had time to reset, rest and shave time off the clock.

The tactic will continue in the next game if necessary. No disincentive.

Proposed Way of Handling It: "Injured" Player must immediately be substituted for OR must wait 5 minutes before being allowed back on.

This would force the defending team to play a man down for a reasonable period of time during a critical point in a match and the first time a goal is scored in this situation, it would effectively discourage this tactic for the future.


Thoughts?

flambe
03-14-2011, 07:59 AM
What if the "injured" party is actually "injured" to the extent where he needs medical attention, but not replacing?

maninb
03-14-2011, 08:05 AM
"must wait 5 minutes before being allowed back on."?????

Would NEVER work....teams would target important players and give them a hard foul just so they'd have to sit out 5 minutes, especially near the end of a match....IMO the ref should have better diescretion and make them wait on the sideline for a bit, but certainly not 5 minutes...

Pookie
03-14-2011, 08:07 AM
"must wait 5 minutes before being allowed back on."?????

Would NEVER work....teams would target important players and give them a hard foul just so they'd have to sit out 5 minutes, especially near the end of a match....IMO the ref should have better diescretion and make them wait on the sideline for a bit, but certainly not 5 minutes...

But teams could do this now.

Under existing rules, a player deliberately targeting a player could earn a Red card in the process, taking his team down a man as well.

Gazza
03-14-2011, 08:15 AM
Real injuries and hard fouls will always exist so divers and fakers will always be able to take advantage of the system.

I wouldn't want my team going down a man for 5 mins because the player rolled his ankle or took a knock that winded him.

Whatever happened to immediately sending a stretcher on the field to carry a guy off, and if he refused, he'd get a yellow? That didn't last long.

Pookie
03-14-2011, 08:35 AM
I wouldn't want my team going down a man for 5 mins because the player rolled his ankle or took a knock that winded him.



Neither would I but let me ask you this, in the case of a real injury such as a rolled ankle, wouldn't we assume that the recovery time would be more than 5-7 minutes?

Again, a player with a real injury could immediately be substituted for without waiting the 5 minutes.

drexel10
03-14-2011, 08:55 AM
As much as everyone makes fun of the NCAA, they had this right. If a player went down the ref would ask them if they were okay and if the answer was no, they just stopped the big clock for everyone to see. So what the point of rolling around when it wasn't killing any time.

bones
03-14-2011, 09:36 AM
Interesting ideas Pookie, but doesn't the injured player have to wait for the ref to allow him back on? So if that is the case, then the problem really is that the ref's are not using the tools available to them to balance out this problem specifically.

Here's a much better idea, fix the bloody refs! HA I know, then pigs will fly, yadda yadda.

Bones...

NBS
03-14-2011, 03:33 PM
As much as everyone makes fun of the NCAA, they had this right. If a player went down the ref would ask them if they were okay and if the answer was no, they just stopped the big clock for everyone to see. So what the point of rolling around when it wasn't killing any time.

I've never understood the black box of timekeeping in the game. Why doesn't the ref stop the game clock for all to see instead of the guesswork of stoppage time. I don't like the ref having that kind of basically unexamined control of the timing of the game. It's easy to do and it's done in basically every other sport.

drexel10
03-14-2011, 03:40 PM
I've never understood the black box of timekeeping in the game. Why doesn't the ref stop the game clock for all to see instead of the guesswork of stoppage time. I don't like the ref having that kind of basically unexamined control of the timing of the game. It's easy to do and it's done in basically every other sport.


I agree. In the NCAA we all knew that when we scored they stopped the clock, so who cares how long a team celebrates. When you went down, no point on sitting there because, the clock is stopped again. Bonus was the fans knew exactly how much time remained. I think it is just tradition that prevents a move to an official clock and the ref stopping the clock for everyone to see.

Carts
03-14-2011, 03:40 PM
^ stopping the game-clock is an interesting idea...

I kind of like it. There is still some "human influence" as the official must decide if the injury (or "apparent" injury) warrants the clock being stopped...

I've seen the game-clock stopped this year. It was during a SerieA game on the score when 2/3rds of the lights in the stadium went out... The ball was never kicked out or anything - he just blew the play dead, and after a few seconds the clock stopped. The players in that case actually kicked around the game ball, and the ones on the sidelines etc...

When enough lights had come on - they just picked up right where they left off...

This would be interesting for injuries. A player goes down, the whistle goes. The official runs over, asses the time its going to take for the restart, and if he beleives the injury to be serious enough - he tell the 4th official 'stop the clock'...

I don't want the clock stopped on goals, throw ins, free kicks - I guess my criteria would be if the trainer needs to enter the pitch, the clock is stopped...

Hell in cases where a team is up 1-nil late - and a guy takes a bump, we might actually see players suck it up and play through, or hobble to the sideline for a quick magic-spray...

Carts...

drexel10
03-14-2011, 03:44 PM
^ stopping the game-clock is an interesting idea...

I kind of like it. There is still some "human influence" as the official must decide if the injury (or "apparent" injury) warrants the clock being stopped...

I've seen the game-clock stopped this year. It was during a SerieA game on the score when 2/3rds of the lights in the stadium went out... The ball was never kicked out or anything - he just blew the play dead, and after a few seconds the clock stopped. The players in that case actually kicked around the game ball, and the ones on the sidelines etc...

When enough lights had come on - they just picked up right where they left off...

This would be interesting for injuries. A player goes down, the whistle goes. The official runs over, asses the time its going to take for the restart, and if he beleives the injury to be serious enough - he tell the 4th official 'stop the clock'...

I don't want the clock stopped on goals, throw ins, free kicks - I guess my criteria would be if the trainer needs to enter the pitch, the clock is stopped...

Hell in cases where a team is up 1-nil late - and a guy takes a bump, we might actually see players suck it up and play through, or hobble to the sideline for a quick magic-spray...

Carts...

LOL! That is what I learned quickly in the NCAA. If the ref asks you if you are okay and you say no, he stops the clock. Coach is quickly forced to make a substitution or play a man down. After that, there was no point on lying on the ground because you had to go off, or be substituted. So after my 2nd game, I never stayed down again. :)

denime
03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
Just let it go guys,nothing is wrong with the soccer rules as they are.:hide:

TorCanSoc
03-14-2011, 05:24 PM
Stopping the game clock is good. If I remember correctly the A-League did it a few years back, not sure what happened to it. I think FIFA started intervening, the A-League also had 35 yards out shoot outs to settle regular season games that were tied.

In any case, nothing wrong with stopping the clock if a player is legitimately injured no? What's the problem with that situation? The ref has the final game whistle as normal, but, when a guy is down and writhing in pain sure give the ref a "stop" button. For the hoof it to the hills time-wasting, throw-ins time wasting, goalie time-wasting sure the ref still adds time.

ag futbol
03-14-2011, 05:43 PM
I think there are ways to deal with these kinds of isses. The problem is FIFA chooses not to address them.

Exhibit A: Kaka's "red card" during the world cup was completely ridiculous. How that couldn't be rescinded and the other player suspended is beyond me.

For someone to game the system like that is completely shameful. When the penalty for that is a 10 game suspension, it will stop happening.

brad
03-14-2011, 06:28 PM
But teams could do this now.

Under existing rules, a player deliberately targeting a player could earn a Red card in the process, taking his team down a man as well.

Pretty easy for a skilled defender to foul a player deliberately and wind them or go head to head on an aerial challenge without taking a red (likely a yellow). Easy way to get Messi off the pitch for five minutes.

BTW, this idea made the rounds a few years ago. People cited types of injuries that are immediately painful that would cause a player to go down, but are quick to recover from. I forget what they were though.

And I agree with whoever it was that said - don't change the rules...

NBS
03-14-2011, 06:35 PM
Stopping the game clock is good. If I remember correctly the A-League did it a few years back, not sure what happened to it. I think FIFA started intervening, the A-League also had 35 yards out shoot outs to settle regular season games that were tied.

In any case, nothing wrong with stopping the clock if a player is legitimately injured no? What's the problem with that situation? The ref has the final game whistle as normal, but, when a guy is down and writhing in pain sure give the ref a "stop" button. For the hoof it to the hills time-wasting, throw-ins time wasting, goalie time-wasting sure the ref still adds time.

Why add time at all? If the ref has a clock that he's stopping, why not just connect it to the stadium clock for all stoppages, injury or not. At least that way people can see what causes a stopped clock, what doesn't, and if there is enough time being taken off on plays. Transparency is something the game needs more of.

Flipityflu
03-14-2011, 06:56 PM
Just let it go guys,nothing is wrong with the soccer rules as they are.:hide:

i agree. its the enforcement of the rules that have to change, not the rules themselves.

razor787
03-14-2011, 07:19 PM
What about double stop time in the last 15 mins?

If a player on the winning team rolls around on the pitch for 3 minutes trying to waste time, then the ref adds on 6.

If a player knows that he is forcing his team to defend for twice the amount of time he was on the ground, that player is going to get his ass off the ground in a hurry.

TorCanSoc
03-14-2011, 07:50 PM
Why add time at all? If the ref has a clock that he's stopping, why not just connect it to the stadium clock for all stoppages, injury or not. At least that way people can see what causes a stopped clock, what doesn't, and if there is enough time being taken off on plays. Transparency is something the game needs more of.

Yes, I think we're saying the same thing. The ref should stop the game clock. And yes, if someone hoofs it into the stratosphere, then the ref should stop the clock. Gets into a situation where if the ref forgets to stop it.. or worst forgets to start it again. But I guess that is solved with some "fifth official" in charge of time keeping.

The end of the game should be the ref's decision. If I remember correctly the A-League had issue with this. Goals were disallowed for running out of time. The end of the game has to be +/- 30 seconds to allow a final play to finish. And only the ref should know when that is. In any case, the A-League abandoned it, not sure if it was because it didn't work, or it was to be more FIFA'ish.

Carts
03-14-2011, 08:04 PM
Why add time at all? If the ref has a clock that he's stopping, why not just connect it to the stadium clock for all stoppages, injury or not. At least that way people can see what causes a stopped clock, what doesn't, and if there is enough time being taken off on plays. Transparency is something the game needs more of.

I don't like this at all...

I like the fact that the game continues to have the human element of flow and officiating...

If it was a set clock - it would like hockey, a guy can be on a breakaway and "horn"... I know its a different sport with different traditions and style, but could you imagine that in footy - I would hate it...

I know I am in the "North American Minority" but I hate the fact that games are no longer being officiated by humans on the field/ice/court and more by a group of office people watching on a HD screen...

Video replay, sensors in tennis balls, etc etc etc - why does anyone yell at a ref anymore (other than penalty calls) b/c 90% of important calls are made by front office officials...

I like the human aspect and flow in footy - its something that is long gone in other sports unfortunately...

Is 'human officiating' perfect? No, far from it - and funny enough thats exactly what I like about it...

Carts...

phonzo
03-14-2011, 08:08 PM
needs a pookie short

ExiledRed
03-14-2011, 09:11 PM
The advertisers just orgasm when people start calling for clock stoppages.
Seriously, their ejaculate could drown a nation.

I see fat men with very thin watches shedding joyful tears because, after decades of being unable to interrupt the most watched sport on the planet, here comes Johnny-do-good with a plan to improve the game and legitimately stop the clock for injuries between whistles.

KACHING!

Get on the forums and lets get this baby rolling..... stop the clock, so time is not wasted!

denime
03-14-2011, 09:25 PM
I don't like this at all...

I like the fact that the game continues to have the human element of flow and officiating...

If it was a set clock - it would like hockey, a guy can be on a breakaway and "horn"... I know its a different sport with different traditions and style, but could you imagine that in footy - I would hate it...

I know I am in the "North American Minority" but I hate the fact that games are no longer being officiated by humans on the field/ice/court and more by a group of office people watching on a HD screen...

Video replay, sensors in tennis balls, etc etc etc - why does anyone yell at a ref anymore (other than penalty calls) b/c 90% of important calls are made by front office officials...

I like the human aspect and flow in footy - its something that is long gone in other sports unfortunately...

Is 'human officiating' perfect? No, far from it - and funny enough thats exactly what I like about it...

Carts...


The advertisers just orgasm when people start calling for clock stoppages.
Seriously, their ejaculate could drown a nation.

I see fat men with very thin watches shedding joyful tears because, after decades of being unable to interrupt the most watched sport on the planet, here comes Johnny-do-good with a plan to improve the game and legitimately stop the clock for injuries between whistles.

KACHING!

Get on the forums and lets get this baby rolling..... stop the clock, so time is not wasted!

Well said,case closed.

NBS
03-14-2011, 09:46 PM
The end of the game should be the ref's decision. If I remember correctly the A-League had issue with this. Goals were disallowed for running out of time. The end of the game has to be +/- 30 seconds to allow a final play to finish. And only the ref should know when that is. In any case, the A-League abandoned it, not sure if it was because it didn't work, or it was to be more FIFA'ish.

I don't know, in my opinion the game is 90 minutes, if you run out of time, you run out of time. I don't like the arbitrary nature of the way it is now, gives refs the power to affect the outcome, and I think that's exactly what the sport needs to get away from. However, I would accept a middle ground solution, anything is better than the way it is now IMO.

NBS
03-14-2011, 09:49 PM
I don't like this at all...

I like the fact that the game continues to have the human element of flow and officiating...

If it was a set clock - it would like hockey, a guy can be on a breakaway and "horn"... I know its a different sport with different traditions and style, but could you imagine that in footy - I would hate it...

I know I am in the "North American Minority" but I hate the fact that games are no longer being officiated by humans on the field/ice/court and more by a group of office people watching on a HD screen...

Video replay, sensors in tennis balls, etc etc etc - why does anyone yell at a ref anymore (other than penalty calls) b/c 90% of important calls are made by front office officials...

I like the human aspect and flow in footy - its something that is long gone in other sports unfortunately...

Is 'human officiating' perfect? No, far from it - and funny enough thats exactly what I like about it...

Carts...

Different strokes for different folks I guess. There will always be people on both sides of the fence on issues like this, it's just personal preference. For me, anything that maximizes the players on the pitch determining the outcome and minimizes the refs ability to do so, I'm all for, including technology.

Azerban
03-15-2011, 11:16 AM
I know I am in the "North American Minority" but I hate the fact that games are no longer being officiated by humans on the field/ice/court and more by a group of office people watching on a HD screen...


it's americans

for some reason they're in love with the idea of a fat guy on a couch watching a tv as grand arbiter

TorontoGooner
03-15-2011, 11:47 AM
I think the whole point about football being so popular is because it's full of controversy, if everything was black and white the game would just be dull