MLSE up for sale: report

[Yeoman]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2011/03/12/sp-mlse-sale-report.html



Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which owns among other properties the NHL's Toronto Maple Leafs, the NBA's Toronto Raptors, and Toronto FC of MLS, is up for sale, according to a report in Montreal's La Presse on Saturday.
According to the report from the paper, the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan, which owns 66 per cent of MLSE, has hired investment bank Morgan Stanley to find investors interested in buying their shares.
La Presse, citing an unnamed source, says the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan is asking $1.3 billion for its shares.
If completed, the sale would be the largest in Canadian sports history.
When contacted Saturday by CBC Hockey Night in Canada's Scott Morrison, MLSE president and CEO Richard Peddie offered no comment.
Just last December, reports surfaced that telecommunications giant Rogers Communications was making overtures to buy the Ontario Teachers' shares for $1.3 billion.
Along with the Leafs, Raptors, and Toronto FC, MLSE also owns the AHL's Toronto Marlies, television networks Leafs TV and Raptors TV, the Air Canada Centre, Ricoh Coliseum and BMO Field.
As well as being a telephone, internet, and cable giant, Rogers already owns Canadian sports channel Sportsnet, the Toronto Blue Jays, and the Rogers Centre.
Real estate magnate Larry Tanenbaum, who owns 20.5 per cent of MLSE, and TD Capital, who owns 13.5 per cent, will each have first refusal on any proposed sale of the Teachers' shares.
If the report is true, it means that the NHL has given the go-ahead for the Ontario Teachers to sell their shares. Since 2007, the league has to approve before any future buyers take a look at a franchise's books.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/story/2011/03/12/sp-mlse-sale-report.html#ixzz1GRAK4eC9

[billyfly]

Rogers

[MG42]

http://kellyreardon.dyndns.org/kelly/2009/08/19/blackberry-bold-jim-balsillie-1%5B1%5D.jpg


Actually I'm with Billy and going with Rogers

[ManUtd4ever]

Larry Tanenbaum will do everything in his power to become the majority shareholder of MLSE. The only question is whether or not he can afford the asking price...

[Flipityflu]

Rogers are going to be all over this.

[razor787]

I wonder if Balsille will put in a bid. I am sure he would absolutely love to get his hands on the leafs, and it sounds like he would be the best possible option.

[Suds]

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3wx8ocMzQrCIFhXiLK7bZ9HmFNZLXN x11QlnjtKTSQl70bW-nrw


You heard it here first.:D

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

^ I'm hoping for a Russian billionaire or a oil rich Sheik. Someone who's got roof money. I'm sick of losing in the rain.

[Yeoman]

Larry Tanenbaum will do everything in his power to become the majority shareholder of MLSE. The only question is whether or not he can afford the asking price...

larry tried to before late last year didn't he?
he's got first call afterall

[billyfly]

Tannebaum's first right of refusal has been disputed by Bill Watters

[brad]

Rogers would be disaster.

[Macksam]

^ I'm hoping for a Russian billionaire or a oil rich Sheik. Someone who's got roof money. I'm sick of losing in the rain.
Well, that would only be beneficial to the Raptors really. The Leafs and TFC play in hard cap leagues. With the Raps, I could see a foreign investor going crazy and outspending the rest of the NBA but that's still a stretch. I guess, for TFC's sake, an owner like that might be more open to increasing non-salary related expenses like the stadium or youth development, but I doubt that to.

[boban]

Larry Tanenbaum will do everything in his power to become the majority shareholder of MLSE. The only question is whether or not he can afford the asking price...
Reality hit him square in the head a couple of months ago.
He bought 7.5% over a year ago and that has tapped him out.
If he does somehow pull it off, he would leverage himself to the wazooo.
I don't see it happening.

[boban]

Someone who's got roof money. I'm sick of losing in the rain.
:drool5:

[boban]

Well, that would only be beneficial to the Raptors really. The Leafs and TFC play in hard cap leagues. With the Raps, I could see a foreign investor going crazy and outspending the rest of the NBA but that's still a stretch. I guess, for TFC's sake, an owner like that might be more open to increasing non-salary related expenses like the stadium or youth development, but I doubt that to.
You forgot about the 3 DP's he could pay and bring in.
MLSE spends on DP's but at the 1-1.5M range while LA and NY spend at the 5m range.

[Macksam]

You forgot about the 3 DP's he could pay and bring in.
MLSE spends on DP's but at the 1-1.5M range while LA and NY spend at the 5m range.
Yeah, that would be good.

[Suds]

^ I'm hoping for a Russian billionaire or a oil rich Sheik. Someone who's got roof money. I'm sick of losing in the rain.

And when we win the MLS Cup he'll take all supporters out on a booze-cruise of Lake Ontario on his yacht .

http://static.plushasia.com/action/PageImage/15062009033332/4028.jpg

[Gazza_55]

Well, that would only be beneficial to the Raptors really. The Leafs and TFC play in hard cap leagues. With the Raps, I could see a foreign investor going crazy and outspending the rest of the NBA but that's still a stretch. I guess, for TFC's sake, an owner like that might be more open to increasing non-salary related expenses like the stadium or youth development, but I doubt that to.

Not after next years lockout that could last a year or two. The NBA owners will have a hard cap as well.

[boban]

larry tried to before late last year didn't he?
he's got first call afterall
He's got first refusal, not first call.

[Macksam]

Not after next years lockout that could last a year or two. The NBA owners will have a hard cap as well.
Yeah, I forgot about that and how bad the financial situations are for most NBA franchises right now. A hard cap would do wonders for the NBA. The NHL's post lockout on ice product has been some of the best I have ever seen. The 2008-2009 playoffs were the best playoffs since 1994. Last season's were great as well.

I wonder what will happen though to the NBA, and NFL for that matter if both player unions hold out. The NFL would be fine if it had a work stoppage, but the NBA could get severely f*cked.

[Redcoe15]

Here's a thought. Suppose someone, or something, buys up the shares and decides to put TFC up for sale. Who would buy them?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Eugene_Melnyk.jpg

This guy perhaps?..

[noochie]

Whoever it is... I hope the double the size of the front office and ramp up scouting. There ain't much they can do about the cap... but they can fix the rest of the organization by investing in FO staff appropriately.

[shwade]

yeah a Russian or sheikh billionaire sounds good.

[prizby]

there were rumours of this happening in December...I had a chat with Brian Williams about this then, Tannembaum might actually buy them...he also suggest SHAW media who own Global might put in an offer just because they have not much in terms of sports coverage

[tfcmanu]

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/727959--thomson-clan-tops-canada-s-richest-list-rogers-family-fifth

The late Kenneth Thomson, left, who stepped down as the head of his company to let his son David, Right, take over, once ranked in Forbes’ Top 15
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/40/99/4030ad7242179e8a8d4029aeffc6.jpeg

[kaos197O]

I actually hope that they considering selling the teams separately afterwards. I would just hate for this club to fall into the hands of someone who purchases the entirety of MLSE but is not committed to Football and/or the direction that the club is headed in. We need stability.

Hmmmmm, would be nice if we supporters could put in a bid. What was TFC valued at last year again? Methinks it was an over-inflated # especially based on what has transpired since last years fallout.

[prizby]

LOL...supporters making a bid...lets get all our spare change together; that should be enough

[Shway]

^who would we have to blame?

[Cas87]

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/727959--thomson-clan-tops-canada-s-richest-list-rogers-family-fifth

The late Kenneth Thomson, left, who stepped down as the head of his company to let his son David, Right, take over, once ranked in Forbes’ Top 15
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/40/99/4030ad7242179e8a8d4029aeffc6.jpeg

Only if these guys don't get Phoenix or Atlanta fitst (then move them to Winnipeg :hump:)

[Blowing Bubbles]

things would get pretty crazy if Rogers buys the team.

I mean when the next RAps/Leafs contracts are up would they then put all of the games on Sportsnet/Sportsnet1 and Leafs TV? I suppose so. You couple that with their Blue Jays coverage and suddenly TSN is on the outside looking in for a lot of local content.

Then perhaps Rogers changes the cable tiers again and those sports channels cost a bunch.

Interesting times - on the one hand I would prefer a different owner for TFC but I mean come on ---- this is a 3 mill salary cap league and this team prints money (even now with sales soft). I would be most worried if i was a Raptors fan actually.

[kaos197O]

LOL...supporters making a bid...lets get all our spare change together; that should be enough
Not everyone is just scraping by but........

[ManUtd4ever]

LOL...supporters making a bid...lets get all our spare change together; that should be enough

LOL, I'm down with that! Let's pull a Milltown FC!

[CoachGT]

Hmmmmm, would be nice if we supporters could put in a bid.

I'm taking donations now. Just need another $1.5 billion.............

[nascarguy]

sure why not would you like a house too. I'll just post my card info .......lol

[nascarguy]

As of 2009:

66% – Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Teachers%27_Pension_Plan)
20.5% – Kilmer Sports Inc. (owned by Larry Tanenbaum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Tanenbaum))
13.5% – TD Capital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto-Dominion_Bank)
and I want them 100% gone

[kaos197O]

I'm taking donations now. Just need another $1.5 billion.............

Glad you're all having fun with this but TFC isn't worth 1 and a half billion.

Whatever folks.
:rolleyes:

[GuelphStorm2007]

I am not a Leaf or Raptors fan, the only property of ML$E I support is of course TFC .As far as the Sale goes I hope a Russian Oilarch or a Middle Eastern billionare from Dubai purchases the remaining share just to annoy all The Don Cherry, and Andrew Krystals neandrathols of this world.:scarf:

[Roogsy]

Tanenbaum unlikely.

As are the Thompsons.

The only way Tanenbaum get reach the asking price is if he gathers a buying group together.

[Waggy]

Glad you're all having fun with this but TFC isn't worth 1 and a half billion.

Whatever folks.
:rolleyes:

Last year 7 nba teams made money. One of those was the Toronto Raptors.

MLSE bought an MLS team for 10(? was it 20?) million dollars in 2005. It's now valued over 100 million

The Toronto Maple Leafs last year brought in a profit of 90 million dollars.


Now imagine any of those teams were any GOOD. Or had playoff games (a million in pure profit each). The ACC alone has to be worth several hundred million dollars, if not almost a billion

[Roogsy]

Toronto FC is not worth 100mill.

The ACC is not worth anywhere near a bill.

Your valuations are way off.

[Oblio2]

The League will try all it can for Balsillie to NOT get this team....Im sure Balsillie is jizzing in his pants at the prospect. Wont happen.

My bet:

Rogers.

[razor787]

Toronto FC is not worth 100mill.

The ACC is not worth anywhere near a bill.

Your valuations are way off.

I don't know what either are worth today, but I remember hearing at the end of season one that the team was worth 40mil.

It is possible that the value of the team has kept going up, but I do agree that 100mil is excessive. My best guess would be between 60-80

[Roogsy]

The NHL has no influence or say on who buys the Teacher's ownership of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

[Roogsy]

I don't know what either are worth today, but I remember hearing at the end of season one that the team was worth 40mil.

It is possible that the value of the team has kept going up, but I do agree that 100mil is excessive. My best guess would be between 60-80

I doubt it's even that high. Because the team neither owns the land nor the stadium the bulk of their value is found in the franchise fee which has not risen above $40mill as far as we know. Add to that the modest profitablility of the team and the intangible value found in being a part of a sports conglomerate, I would peg the purchase value somewhere near 50-60mill.

[tartan44]

if the teachers shares(66%) are sold, only with a forgein buyer will we see results on the pitch and within the club itself.:scarf:
4 years of crap don't know if i can handle another year.:picard:

[nascarguy]

Toronto FC is not worth 100mill.

The ACC is not worth anywhere near a bill.

Your valuations are way off.
yeah they are 2008 value: $44 million USD the team is shit but the market is worth more then the team

[Roogsy]

Oh yeah and let's not forget the foreign exchange loss in the past 2 years where the CAD has gone from .95 to about 1.03.

[tartan44]

And i hope to god Rogers Doesn't buy it!:picard:

[nascarguy]

And i hope to god Rogers Doesn't buy it!:picard:
anything is better then mlse

[Roogsy]

Kev...I think it's been explained to you before, MLSE will continue to be the owners of all the sports teams. That won't change. What will change is the majority owners of MLSE will no longer be Ontario Teachers, it will be someone else. But these new investors will not change the name or the executives that run the company, that will stay the same.

[tartan44]

anything is better then mlse
yes anything is better but rogers won't care about the team getting results just like mlse:scarf:

[nascarguy]

MLSE was internally valued at over $1 billion CAD by the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan in its annual report. The December 2008 sale of 7.5% of the company to Larry Tanenbaum for $90 million values the company at $1.2 billion.
it will not be sold for less then 4billion

[nascarguy]

yes anything is better but rogers won't care about the team getting results just like mlse:scarf:
mlse care's about money and nothing but..

[tartan44]

How about an owner who only wants TFC, thus buying the teachers shares and turning around and selling the mlse with the leafs and raps keeping only TFC. :flare::D

[Roogsy]

Nascar...MLSE will still be owners so those problems will not go away.

[tartan44]

not owning the stadium and the land outright could be an issue for any big buyer as well

[nascarguy]

Nascar...MLSE will still be owners so those problems will not go away.
the bad part was the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan if rogers get 66% they can do anything they want

[Beach_Red]

Kev...I think it's been explained to you before, MLSE will continue to be the owners of all the sports teams. That won't change. What will change is the majority owners of MLSE will no longer be Ontario Teachers, it will be someone else. But these new investors will not change the name or the executives that run the company, that will stay the same.


No it won't. If Rogers buy the 60% they may very well rebrand the whole company (this is about Rogers selling content afterall). Also, there was an article in the paper today that the Raptor's GM's contract isn't being extended because the the member fo the board from the Teachers doesn't want to do it and there are two more Teachers members on the board and Peddie who always votes with the teachers. So, right away, Peddie and the three members of the board from the Teachers will be changed - and that's the majority of votes on the board and the kind of decisions they're making.

The execs won't be changed the day of the sale but within a couple of years it'll be an entirely new group of people running the teams. The new board will put their own execs in place. Now, the teams may still not improve....

[Roogsy]

Yeah um...don't complicate it homey. I know if Rogers buys the company there will be changes but we're just trying to keep simple the confusion between MLSE selling the teams and Teachers selling their ownership in MLSE.

[boban]

Tanenbaum unlikely.

As are the Thompsons.

The only way Tanenbaum get reach the asking price is if he gathers a buying group together.
Even if he does he has to match the offering price of the other group.

[Waggy]

Toronto FC is not worth 100mill.

The ACC is not worth anywhere near a bill.

Your valuations are way off.

Wasn't the last valuation of TFC at 100 million? I didn't pick the number out of thin air. And what's the property value of the ACC alone? Let alone the 500 million dollar upgrade thats been done over the past 4 years. According to the Forbes lists the Leafs are over 400 million, the Raps aren't far behind. If TFC is only worth 70 even (which is far under the last number I heard), then if the ACC is worth 400 million then MLSE is worth 1.3 billion. I think that's a generous price

[nascarguy]

everyone make sure to watch the news tonight at 11pm I think something is going down tonight or sometime soon,

[Auzzy]

Rogers no longer interested in MLSE?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rogers-takes-pass-on-maple-leafs-stake/article1940403/

[billyfly]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/953476--rogers-leads-pack-of-mlse-suitors-experts-say

Ha Ha Tor Star says yes they are.

[Whoop]

Wasn't the last valuation of TFC at 100 million? I didn't pick the number out of thin air. And what's the property value of the ACC alone? Let alone the 500 million dollar upgrade thats been done over the past 4 years. According to the Forbes lists the Leafs are over 400 million, the Raps aren't far behind. If TFC is only worth 70 even (which is far under the last number I heard), then if the ACC is worth 400 million then MLSE is worth 1.3 billion. I think that's a generous price

There is NO WAY TFC is worth $100m.

[billyfly]

They must be including me in this 100 million evaluation.

I'm not for sale.

[Auzzy]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs/article/953476--rogers-leads-pack-of-mlse-suitors-experts-say

Ha Ha Tor Star says yes they are.

That is funny. I saw the Star article earlier, and figured it was from this morning and the G&M piece was newer. Now I see that both articles were published this evening...

[Whoop]

They must be including me in this 100 million evaluation.

I'm not for sale.

I didn't realize the valuation was made in Zimbabwean dollars.

[billyfly]

I didn't realize the valuation was made in Zimbabwean dollars.

Keep talkin'. You getta no jobba when Rogers in charge. I make sure of that.

[nascarguy]

There is NO WAY TFC is worth $100m.
then how much do you think they are worth

[Macksam]

Toronto FC is not worth 100mill.

The ACC is not worth anywhere near a bill.

Your valuations are way off.
TFC's last valuation was $100 million I'm sure like others have pointed out. I could be mistaken though.

[Waggy]

Ugh, you guys make me do all the work. The number is from a Globe and Mail piece on MLSE called 'To Big To Win?' from a bit back. Here's the section

"Toronto FC of Major League Soccer has yet to make the playoffs in four seasons and just fired the general manager and fourth coach. Still, the soccer franchise, bought for $10-million (U.S.), is worth about $100-million now. BMO Field is sold out for nearly every home game, and MLSE just hiked season-ticket prices for 2011. To watch the team compete in a middling league, fans will pay more ($90.78, for a top ticket) than they would to see international superstars play for Manchester United in the English Premier League ($79)."

Edit: Heres the link, but you have to pay to see it http://www.theglobeandmail.com/subscribe.jsp?art=1736787
Heres the news thread from the day it came out http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=24828

[Whoop]

Then where's the roof? LOL

[Waggy]

Then where's the roof? LOL

Where's the playoffs?

[boban]

Wasn't the last valuation of TFC at 100 million? I didn't pick the number out of thin air. And what's the property value of the ACC alone? Let alone the 500 million dollar upgrade thats been done over the past 4 years. According to the Forbes lists the Leafs are over 400 million, the Raps aren't far behind. If TFC is only worth 70 even (which is far under the last number I heard), then if the ACC is worth 400 million then MLSE is worth 1.3 billion. I think that's a generous price
What $500 million upgrade are you talking about?

[boban]

Ugh, you guys make me do all the work. The number is from a Globe and Mail piece on MLSE called 'To Big To Win?' from a bit back. Here's the section

"Toronto FC of Major League Soccer has yet to make the playoffs in four seasons and just fired the general manager and fourth coach. Still, the soccer franchise, bought for $10-million (U.S.), is worth about $100-million now. BMO Field is sold out for nearly every home game, and MLSE just hiked season-ticket prices for 2011. To watch the team compete in a middling league, fans will pay more ($90.78, for a top ticket) than they would to see international superstars play for Manchester United in the English Premier League ($79)."

Edit: Heres the link, but you have to pay to see it http://www.theglobeandmail.com/subscribe.jsp?art=1736787
Heres the news thread from the day it came out http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=24828
Someone talking out of their ass.
Team hasn't won anything, less popular than LA Galaxy or NYRB. No way they are worth that much.

[Whoop]

Didn't Vancouver and Portland pay a $40 million expansion fee to get into the league?

I figure TFC would be worth a little more than that - $50 million.

Red Bull bought the MetroStars for over $50 million, but that was 5 years ago.

[boban]

Didn't Vancouver and Portland pay a $40 million expansion fee to get into the league?
$35 million.

[Nestease]

TFC's shirt and stadium rights are worth $51 million alone. This team is easily worth $100 million.

[boban]

TFC's shirt and stadium rights are worth $51 million alone. This team is easily worth $100 million.
The stadium deal is worth $27 m over 10 years. Thats not 1 year revenue.
Same goes with the shirt sponsorship deal - something like $4M mil a year.

[Waggy]

What $500 million upgrade are you talking about?

Well theres the giant tv, the huge store, the best sports bar in north america, the 2 massive towers, the new foyer/entrance thingy, the HD studio, new in arena screen...


And the Leafs haven't won anything in 44 years, doesn't mean they didn't turn more profit last year then the Knicks (who turned a way bigger profit than the Lakers or Celtics). Winning/success in sport has NOTHING to do with financial success. Financial success is based on a market, sport success is based on intelligence, proper allocation of resources and luck.


Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Centre#Future_developments
"In late 2005, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment announced that they would be renovating the western side of the Air Canada Centre during the 2008 off-season, to connect it with the future Maple Leaf Square development. Maple Leaf Square is jointly owned by MLSE, Cadillac Fairview and Lantera Developments. The $500 million development will include two restaurants, Hotel Le Germain at Maple Leaf Square boutique hotel, extensive retail shopping including a 9,000-square-foot (840 m2) Leafs, Raptors, and Toronto FC store, two 54-storey condominiums, a Longo's supermarket, a High-Definition broadcast studio, and a public square."

If you don't know who owns Cadillac Fairview I'll give you 2 guesses.... hint- they work in education

[Waggy]

This is actually kinda relevant now- I was compiling info to do an expose on the Pension Plan for a basketball site I write for, but due to a potential deal with the Raps my editors kiboshed it. However for your perusal, a few of the larger holdings of the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan:

Deutch Telecom

Hellenic Telecom

Strato AG Telecom

T Mobile and its various subsidiaries

Maple Leaf Foods
Schneiders
various other food companies

OGX Petroleo e Gas Participacoes SA (supposedly the biggest offshore drilling company in Brazil, which'd make it probably the biggest offshore drilling company in the Americas. Unfortunately that datas hard to find)

Cadillac Fairview, who own among others: Eatons Centre, Yorkdale, Pacific Centre. As well as almost every mall in the GTA, and dozens and dozens around the world.

the shipping yards in NYC, New Jersey AND Vancouver

Aquilex holdings: Aquilex Nuclear Services, Aquilex Fossil fuels, Petro Chemicals, Rifining. And Industrial cleaning

InterGen NV (they not only build nuclear reactors, they own and operate them around the world!)

Parts of Lacoste, Timberland. All of American Tourister.

A and P, Dominion/Metro, Rexall, Real Canadian Super store

and so on and so on. They're also the largest energy provider in England. They ARE dr evils company. Thank fuck theyre sellin

[boban]

Well theres the giant tv, the huge store, the best sports bar in north america, the 2 massive towers, the new foyer/entrance thingy, the HD studio, new in arena screen...


And the Leafs haven't won anything in 44 years, doesn't mean they didn't turn more profit last year then the Knicks (who turned a way bigger profit than the Lakers or Celtics). Winning/success in sport has NOTHING to do with financial success. Financial success is based on a market, sport success is based on intelligence, proper allocation of resources and luck.


Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Centre#Future_developments
"In late 2005, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment announced that they would be renovating the western side of the Air Canada Centre during the 2008 off-season, to connect it with the future Maple Leaf Square development. Maple Leaf Square is jointly owned by MLSE, Cadillac Fairview and Lantera Developments. The $500 million development will include two restaurants, Hotel Le Germain at Maple Leaf Square boutique hotel, extensive retail shopping including a 9,000-square-foot (840 m2) Leafs, Raptors, and Toronto FC store, two 54-storey condominiums, a Longo's supermarket, a High-Definition broadcast studio, and a public square."

If you don't know who owns Cadillac Fairview I'll give you 2 guesses.... hint- they work in education
The towers are a development. They are not an upgrade. Also they are in no way part of the arena, although close in proximity.
The screen and that western entrance is 'an upgrade' but it was under $50M if I recall correctly.

[Roogsy]

I am not going to do the math but what is the valuation MLSE has been given for all it's properties? Wikipedia is simply the easiest to check because it's too late to go hunting for any more info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_Leaf_Sports_&_Entertainment

Assets

Toronto Maple Leafs (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Toronto_Maple_Leafs) professional hockey team (2010 value: $505 million USD [1st in the NHL])[6] (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/#cite_note-5)
Toronto Raptors (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Toronto_Raptors) professional basketball team (2010 value: $399 million USD [10th in the NBA]) [7] (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/#cite_note-6)
Toronto FC (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Toronto_FC) Major League Soccer (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Major_League_Soccer) team (2008 value: $44 million USD [2nd in MLS])[8] (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/#cite_note-7)
Toronto Marlies (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Toronto_Marlies) American Hockey League (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/American_Hockey_League) team
TFC Academy (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/TFC_Academy) Canadian Soccer League (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Canadian_Soccer_League_(2006%E2%80%93present)) team
Air Canada Centre (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Air_Canada_Centre), a multi-purpose arena in Downtown Toronto (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Downtown_Toronto) ($265 million CAD (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Canadian_dollar))
Leafs TV (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Leafs_TV) (Toronto Maple Leafs 24 hour specialty channel: the only channel in North America dedicated to one sports team.) and Leafs TV HD (an HD simulcast of Leafs TV)
NBA TV Canada (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/NBA_TV_Canada) (basketball specialty channel with a slight emphasis on the Toronto Raptors) and NBA TV Canada HD (an HD simulcast of NBA TV Canada)
GolTV Canada (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/GolTV_(Canada)) (80.1%) (Specialty soccer channel)
Maple Leaf Square (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Maple_Leaf_Square), a residential and commercial real estate development (to be completed by 2010)

Note that the valuations done by Forbes (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Forbes) are not based on actual numbers provided by MLSE. In 2003, MLSE was internally valued at over $1 billion CAD by the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan in its annual report. The December 2008 sale of 7.5% of the company to Larry Tanenbaum for $90 million values the company at $1.2 billion.

Now some of these numbers are from 2008 and some from 2010 but either way, even with a generous increase in value in the last 2 years, there is no reasonable way any of the valuations thrown about in this thread are even close. And if the Globe used some of those crazy numbers, then they're pretty stupid. If someone wants to make a case for why TFC is worth 100mill...I'd love to hear it. And how the ACC, one arena can be worth over half of the total value of the entire enterprise someone will have to explain as well. As far as I can tell, the math from the wiki article works better.

[boban]

^^ Yes. One can't trust the papers. Their 'facts' are erroneous.
I have read in a couple of articles in the media that lists the CNE Coliseam and NSS as owned by MLSE - they are not.
And Roogsy, you point about TFC is bang on. Yes the team has grown in value but only percentage wise. We have seen that less people actually attends the games, the stadium and shirt sponsorship deals are deals made years past (how those double your value today is beyond me), and TFC is having trouble selling tickets this year.

[drexel10]

Eugene Melnyk offered MLSE 95Mill for TFC and they weren't iunterested. I have to find the source, as I just read this 2 weeks ago.

[Nestease]

The stadium deal is worth $27 m over 10 years. Thats not 1 year revenue.
Same goes with the shirt sponsorship deal - something like $4M mil a year.

The discussion is clearly about what the team is worth, and worth is not the same as yearly revenue. Whoever buys the team not only takes over that guaranteed money contract for the shirt, but they own the shirt it's being put on. That's worth something. Especially if the owner is Rogers.

Toronto FC owns the naming rights for the National Soccer Stadium which it bought from the city for $10 million. They've already paid it off with BMO deal (4 years at 2.7 = $10.8 million) and are already set to make millions in profit from it. How much do you think those naming rights are worth today when you're raking in $2.7 a year and everything paid off? Certainly not $10 million anymore. BMO was paying $1 million a year for the shirt deal when it made the deal for the stadium. The shirt deal is now worth 4x times that. How much is that stadium deal going to be worth when the contract is done is 5 years?

This team is easily worth $100 million today. BMO is spending $6.7 million a year for the shirt and stadium. Rogers could put their name on the shirt and stadium and make back their money in 10-15 years on that alone.

[boban]

Eugene Melnyk offered MLSE 95Mill for TFC and they weren't iunterested. I have to find the source, as I just read this 2 weeks ago.
Yeah, but they can't stand the guy.
It's personal between those two.

[drexel10]

The discussion is clearly about what the team is worth, and worth is not the same as yearly revenue. Whoever buys the team not only takes over that guaranteed money contract for the shirt, but they own the shirt it's being put on. That's worth something. Especially if the owner is Rogers.

Toronto FC owns the naming rights for the National Soccer Stadium which it bought from the city for $10 million. They've already paid it off with BMO deal (4 years at 2.7 = $10.8 million) and are already set to make millions in profit from it. How much do you think those naming rights are worth today when you're raking in $2.7 a year and everything paid off? Certainly not $10 million anymore. BMO was paying $1 million a year for the shirt deal when it made the deal for the stadium. The shirt deal is now worth 4x times that. How much is that stadium deal going to be worth when the contract is done is 5 years?

This team is easily worth $100 million today. BMO is spending $6.7 million a year for the shirt and stadium. Rogers could put their name on the shirt and stadium and make back their money in 10-15 years on that alone.

and that is not to mention that they had over 40 corporate sponsors last I heard. Shoot, I wonder how much Carlsberg paid to be the beer provider.

[Roogsy]

Nobody is even close to BMO so all the corporate sponsors at BMO are nowhere near that figure.

And the mistake being made here is that the revenue generated by the shirt and stadium sponsorship deal somehow get added on top of the profit already being made. You guys are forgetting that the team's profit already includes these figures.

[boban]

The discussion is clearly about what the team is worth, and worth is not the same as yearly revenue. Whoever buys the team not only takes over that guaranteed money contract for the shirt, but they own the shirt it's being put on. That's worth something. Especially if the owner is Rogers.

Toronto FC owns the naming rights for the National Soccer Stadium which it bought from the city for $10 million. They've already paid it off with BMO deal (4 years at 2.7 = $10.8 million) and are already set to make millions in profit from it. How much do you think those naming rights are worth today when you're raking in $2.7 a year and everything paid off? Certainly not $10 million anymore. BMO was paying $1 million a year for the shirt deal when it made the deal for the stadium. The shirt deal is now worth 4x times that. How much is that stadium deal going to be worth when the contract is done is 5 years?

This team is easily worth $100 million today. BMO is spending $6.7 million a year for the shirt and stadium. Rogers could put their name on the shirt and stadium and make back their money in 10-15 years on that alone.
Thanks for the lesson - not.

You asked " How much do you think those naming rights are worth today when you're raking in $2.7 a year?"
Answer - $2.7M a year. That is today. What I get 5 years from now is my business if I buy, and not yours if you sell. Further to this, a new owner is not paying for the full price of the stadium rights deal ($27M) if there is 5 years left on the contract. Heck they won't even pay $13.5 M for it. If they did there would be no return for the new owner. You have to leave some meat on the bone for the new owner. Same goes for the shirt deal.

Also, MLSE operates on the principle that investments must be returned in full in about 3 years. Therefore it would be absolute insane for you to ask me to wait 15 years to make my money back, but you allowed to make it back in 1/4 of the time. And that is to just break even??!! That's insane.

[boban]

Nobody is even close to BMO so all the corporate sponsors at BMO are nowhere near that figure.
Bang on. I think all those stadium sponsors combined are well under $2M a year.

And the mistake being made here is that the revenue generated by the shirt and stadium sponsorship deal somehow get added on top of the profit already being made. You guys are forgetting that the team's profit already includes these figures.
Exactly.

[Waggy]

Ok lets look at this another way. Jim Ballsillie calls up MLSE this afternoon, he wants to buy TFC and will make a 'godfather' offer for it. How much money does it take for MLSE to sell? I think they laugh at 70 million. I think they probably say no to 100 million. You guys are all trying to figure out the present value of TFC without factoring in the growth rate and future value that would also be involved in any sale price. TFC went from being worth 10 million in year one to 44 million in year 2.5 to (according to 2 of the best sports writers in Toronto) 100 million in year 4. Without on field success. Not to mention the brand value which isn't quantifiable but clearly in TFCs case would be the single largest part of a price. If MLSE won't sell TFC for less than 150 million, then TFC is worth 150 million. It's simple. If you really think they'd sell for 70, I suggest you start cold calling local millionaires suggesting a new investment.


*edit before someone goes ape on me, I'm not saying TFC is worth 150 million, I just picked a number. It could also be an X.

[Waggy]

I don't remember my econ classes too well anymore, but isn't there a formula for corporate take overs where you take the present value (including assets) plus the assumed, agreed upon income over 2 or 3 years, then plug the data into an equation to figure out the price?

[boban]

Well at that point go for $200m if you want.
What the person is willing to pay is what they are willing to pay.
It doesn't necessarily coincide with the book value.

[Roogsy]

Well at that point go for $200m if you want.
What the person is willing to pay is what they are willing to pay.
It doesn't necessarily coincide with the book value.


True. It's not reasonable to try to guess what someone "will" pay. The only thing you can do is sum up the value of it's current parts and reach a figure.

[boban]

True. It's not reasonable to try to guess what someone "will" pay. The only thing you can do is sum up the value of it's current parts and reach a figure.
Something is fucked up here.
I am agreeing with your posts and you are agreeing with mine.
:drinking:

[Nestease]

Thanks for the lesson - not.

You asked " How much do you think those naming rights are worth today when you're raking in $2.7 a year?"
Answer - $2.7M a year. That is today.


Umm no. I was referring to the rights in which MLSE purchased from the city, not what it costs to rent out the name for a year. You can't buy those naming rights for $10 million anymore as it's a steal. They are at a bare minimum worth $10 million. If BMO bought the naming rights for life today, they would save $3.5 million over the next 5 years and own the stadium name forever. They would make that deal in a heartbeat.



Also, MLSE operates on the principle that investments must be returned in full in about 3 years. Therefore it would be absolute insane for you to ask me to wait 15 years to make my money back, but you allowed to make it back in 1/4 of the time. And that is to just break even??!! That's insane.

Please, you're trying to change what I said to fit your agenda. I said 10-15 years of naming rights ALONE would pay for this entire team.

There is GOLTV, which MLSE reportedly paid $12 million for. This would be another chip in the TSN vs Sportsnet war should Rogers purchase TFC. Paid subscription TFC channel, just like the Blue Jays on Sportsnet2.

Game day profits:

- Ticket sales, Merchandise ($4.03 per person per game at BMO according to 2007 stats), Concessions ($11.00 per person per game at BMO according to 2007 stats) and Stadium Parking. This team is easily pulling in $1 million+ per game.

Merchandise outside of BMO Field.

Percentage of the National Soccer Stadium.

Radio rights. Rogers is already paying MLSE for broadcast rights to TFC games on the FAN590. They are also overpaying to keep the rights away from TSN.

The list goes on and on. Rogers would make their money back on this team in just a couple years. If this team is not worth $100 million, please share what it is worth with the rest of us.

[boban]

Umm no. I was referring to the rights in which MLSE purchased from the city, not what it costs to rent out the name for a year. You can't buy those naming rights for $10 million anymore as it's a steal. They are at a bare minimum worth $10 million. If BMO bought the naming rights for life today, they would save $3.5 million over the next 5 years and own the stadium name forever. They would make that deal in a heartbeat.



Please, you're trying to change what I said to fit your agenda. I said 10-15 years of naming rights ALONE would pay for this entire team.

There is GOLTV, which MLSE reportedly paid $12 million for. This would be another chip in the TSN vs Sportsnet war should Rogers purchase TFC. Paid subscription TFC channel, just like the Blue Jays on Sportsnet2.

Game day profits:

- Ticket sales, Merchandise ($4.03 per person per game at BMO according to 2007 stats), Concessions ($11.00 per person per game at BMO according to 2007 stats) and Stadium Parking. This team is easily pulling in $1 million+ per game.

Merchandise outside of BMO Field.

Percentage of the National Soccer Stadium.

Radio rights. Rogers is already paying MLSE for broadcast rights to TFC games on the FAN590. They are also overpaying to keep the rights away from TSN.

The list goes on and on. Rogers would make their money back on this team in just a couple years. If this team is not worth $100 million, please share what it is worth with the rest of us.
You're mixing up too much and somehow thinking it all belongs to MLSE.
Part of the concession go to the city.
And parking is pretty much all the city's take.
And what has MLSE done for GOL TV? I don't think they added substantial value to it. Besides, the channel is separate from TFC. TFC doesn't own the channel, its independant of it.

[boban]

Umm no. I was referring to the rights in which MLSE purchased from the city, not what it costs to rent out the name for a year. You can't buy those naming rights for $10 million anymore as it's a steal. They are at a bare minimum worth $10 million. If BMO bought the naming rights for life today, they would save $3.5 million over the next 5 years and own the stadium name forever. They would make that deal in a heartbeat.
:confused:

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

Bang on. I think all those stadium sponsors combined are well under $2M a year.

Exactly.



AND, if i may chime in, if we're talking about value - ie. the multiple and the earnings of an enterprise - the talk about shirts/contracts for the shirts these ads are put on arent necessarily exclusive to the earnings and more or less an intangible asset.

saying $100MM because of, well, shirt/sponsor based 'popularity' when we as the public have no insight to these already undisclosed statements is a bit of a stretch, no? f&*#, as an intangible asset of a private company they can almost - albeit, has to be done, in 'good conscience' - write up whatever the hell number they want, haha.

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

Ok lets look at this another way. Jim Ballsillie calls up MLSE this afternoon, he wants to buy TFC and will make a 'godfather' offer for it. How much money does it take for MLSE to sell? I think they laugh at 70 million. I think they probably say no to 100 million. You guys are all trying to figure out the present value of TFC without factoring in the growth rate and future value that would also be involved in any sale price. TFC went from being worth 10 million in year one to 44 million in year 2.5 to (according to 2 of the best sports writers in Toronto) 100 million in year 4. Without on field success. Not to mention the brand value which isn't quantifiable but clearly in TFCs case would be the single largest part of a price. If MLSE won't sell TFC for less than 150 million, then TFC is worth 150 million. It's simple. If you really think they'd sell for 70, I suggest you start cold calling local millionaires suggesting a new investment.


*edit before someone goes ape on me, I'm not saying TFC is worth 150 million, I just picked a number. It could also be an X.

ill preface this with, im not trying to pick you apart or be snarky i just saw some points in there i was going to mention anyways from reading the thread.

(to the bolded's)

1) and
I don't remember my econ classes too well anymore, but isn't there a formula for corporate take overs where you take the present value (including assets) plus the assumed, agreed upon income over 2 or 3 years, then plug the data into an equation to figure out the price? this is simple DCF (discounted cash flow) or NAV (net asset value) modeling. although its highly assumptive, if the advisors and buyers arent doing this right after breathing/blinking, they deserve to get taken to the cleaners.

2&3) success doesnt necessitate future value. im sorry, it usually does, but thats a more-than-tough value proposition to build an entire price point on.

4) no way no how should it be the biggest part of a selling price. again, this is an intangible asset, of a private (ie. they dont have to disclose squat) company. if we said value = the present value of future cash flows, or the ability to earn and grow a capital base, then why would an obscure asset with a moving target for a value constitute the biggest piece? though you are right in that sports teams have a higher-than-usual % of value in this, overall it wouldnt.

solid earnings = the biggest driver of price, still. even the man utd's and real madrids of the world, who have huge intangible value in their brand, rely on stable revenues and earnings to keep up their value.

5) i know you're just throwing out numbers because - again, its a private company and we dont have disclosure - its arbitrary to begin with, but how do we know what the price point is (40, 70, 100, 150) if we cannot see their books?

again, not jumping all over your post, just chose it as the one to base mine off :)

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

also, we should know why OTPP is selling their stake (66%). odds are they need some cash flow to fund distributions, redemptions, and payouts to retiring teachers as they reported a funding shortfall of $17bn or so last yr.

lets not be fooled, as a part of OTPP's portfolio, MLSE is a tiny drop in the bucket ($1.3bn of $96.4bn). theyd be stupid to liquidate one of their better, more valuable, richer holdings just for this use of proceeds. however, MLSE is a name that garners high publicity and i for one wager theyre trying to use the spotlight to get a larger premium on it so they can get the $1.5-$1.8bn or so for immediate cash needs.

[ensco]

I am not going to do the math but what is the valuation MLSE has been given for all it's properties? Wikipedia is simply the easiest to check because it's too late to go hunting for any more info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maple_Leaf_Sports_&_Entertainment

Assets

Toronto Maple Leafs (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Toronto_Maple_Leafs) professional hockey team (2010 value: $505 million USD [1st in the NHL])[6] (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/#cite_note-5)
Toronto Raptors (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Toronto_Raptors) professional basketball team (2010 value: $399 million USD [10th in the NBA]) [7] (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/#cite_note-6)
Toronto FC (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Toronto_FC) Major League Soccer (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Major_League_Soccer) team (2008 value: $44 million USD [2nd in MLS])[8] (http://redpatchboys.ca/forums/#cite_note-7)
Toronto Marlies (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Toronto_Marlies) American Hockey League (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/American_Hockey_League) team
TFC Academy (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/TFC_Academy) Canadian Soccer League (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Canadian_Soccer_League_%282006%E2%80%93present%29) team
Air Canada Centre (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Air_Canada_Centre), a multi-purpose arena in Downtown Toronto (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Downtown_Toronto) ($265 million CAD (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Canadian_dollar))
Leafs TV (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Leafs_TV) (Toronto Maple Leafs 24 hour specialty channel: the only channel in North America dedicated to one sports team.) and Leafs TV HD (an HD simulcast of Leafs TV)
NBA TV Canada (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/NBA_TV_Canada) (basketball specialty channel with a slight emphasis on the Toronto Raptors) and NBA TV Canada HD (an HD simulcast of NBA TV Canada)
GolTV Canada (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/GolTV_%28Canada%29) (80.1%) (Specialty soccer channel)
Maple Leaf Square (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Maple_Leaf_Square), a residential and commercial real estate development (to be completed by 2010)

Note that the valuations done by Forbes (http://redpatchboys.ca/wiki/Forbes) are not based on actual numbers provided by MLSE. In 2003, MLSE was internally valued at over $1 billion CAD by the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan in its annual report. The December 2008 sale of 7.5% of the company to Larry Tanenbaum for $90 million values the company at $1.2 billion.



Now some of these numbers are from 2008 and some from 2010 but either way, even with a generous increase in value in the last 2 years, there is no reasonable way any of the valuations thrown about in this thread are even close. And if the Globe used some of those crazy numbers, then they're pretty stupid. If someone wants to make a case for why TFC is worth 100mill...I'd love to hear it. And how the ACC, one arena can be worth over half of the total value of the entire enterprise someone will have to explain as well. As far as I can tell, the math from the wiki article works better.

Good summary. I'd add the following:

The Habs (including the Molson Centre) sold last year for $550MM, so that Leafs + ACC value is probably a little overstated. The Leafs have to be worth more than the Habs, but the ACC isn't worth anything close to $265MM. The value of the ACC is bundled to that of the Leafs and Raptors, but if it were owned by a third party, no way the cash flow off the arena supports anything close to that number.

The big unknown is "strategic premium", otherwise calculated as the amount a buyer pays for control, and to win the auction. Hard to assess what that would be here, but it's reasonable to assume, not that much, as a lot of "premium" is already captured in the value of the component pieces in the Forbes values....and for the reasons listed below....

1 - With respect to the list of bidders posted in the Star story, I think it's unlikely that Shaw could play. They will get involved because they want the winner to overpay, but the MLSE properties aren't in Calgary or Vancouver, so they're too far afield, and have too limited strategic overlap for them. Telus is also a bit of a long shot for this reason, but I do wonder about them. They are strategically landlocked (unlike the other bidders, they have no media distribution strategy) and they might be willing to be aggressive if they were trying to build a mobile distribution platform, but it'd take a lot more than buying MLSE for them to do it, and the markets would likely have a very bad reaction to Telus buying them, in the short run.

2 - In general, the fear of an adverse stock market will be a cap on what any public company can bid. The market for any of these companies will absolutely puke if they pay what people perceive to be a stupid number. Rogers has a bit of an advantage here, Bell has a particularly chequered history of overpaying for acquisitions, and the market reaction issues are especially tricky for them.

Only Balsillie, Thomson or a Russion grillionaire can bid a silly number here.

[deeznutz]

Afew years to late................

[Macksam]

Someone talking out of their ass.
Team hasn't won anything, less popular than LA Galaxy or NYRB. No way they are worth that much.
They're probably slightly less popular than LA, but NYRB? Not a chance.

[phonzo]

my understanding was last time this deal went up the commercial properties were not included....could have changed though

[Waggy]

ill preface this with, im not trying to pick you apart or be snarky i just saw some points in there i was going to mention anyways from reading the thread.

(to the bolded's)

1) and this is simple DCF (discounted cash flow) or NAV (net asset value) modeling. although its highly assumptive, if the advisors and buyers arent doing this right after breathing/blinking, they deserve to get taken to the cleaners.

2&3) success doesnt necessitate future value. im sorry, it usually does, but thats a more-than-tough value proposition to build an entire price point on.

4) no way no how should it be the biggest part of a selling price. again, this is an intangible asset, of a private (ie. they dont have to disclose squat) company. if we said value = the present value of future cash flows, or the ability to earn and grow a capital base, then why would an obscure asset with a moving target for a value constitute the biggest piece? though you are right in that sports teams have a higher-than-usual % of value in this, overall it wouldnt.

solid earnings = the biggest driver of price, still. even the man utd's and real madrids of the world, who have huge intangible value in their brand, rely on stable revenues and earnings to keep up their value.

5) i know you're just throwing out numbers because - again, its a private company and we dont have disclosure - its arbitrary to begin with, but how do we know what the price point is (40, 70, 100, 150) if we cannot see their books?

again, not jumping all over your post, just chose it as the one to base mine off :)


None taken, no worries. Those are all good points, like you said I'm not trying to say what I think the team is worth, I just think it's ridiculous to state there's no way it's worth 100 million given the clubs revenue streams and the growth it's shown.

Also with a sports team do you really think the brand isn't the real asset purchased? How else do leagues/teams justify selling the worst of their leagues for so much money? There's no way in hell the Charlotte Bobcats are 'worth' 275 million dollars based on any numbers given, but that's what Michael Jordan paid last summer. (last year they lost $20 million dollars, averaged 15 000 fans a game, and I dare you to tell me when you saw someone wearing a Bobcats jersey, hat, or logo in any way shape or form). Since that's what was paid presumably Jordan was paying for SOMETHING, and that has to be the brand.
(here's the Forbes entry on them http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/32/basketball-valuations-11_Charlotte-Bobcats_322435.html too bad MLS doesn't participate in a forbes list anymore. I love the Forbes lists)

[billyfly]

Bob McCown on PTS tonight said talks involving a Russian are heating up.

He also mentioned multiple offers are in.

For the record, Globe and Mail's Dave Shultz said his sources hadn't told him anything was going on.

[ag futbol]

Does Alex Shnaider count as "Russian"?

*Sold soccer club Maccabi Tel Aviv last August*

I could be convinced to be excited?

[Suds]

Schnaider is Russian born, grew up in Canada. I guess that still makes him Russian.

[moralis]

What time on PTS did he talk about this Russian interest and other MLSE offers?

[prizby]

mcgowan is an idiot

[Shakes McQueen]

mcgowan is an idiot

Who?

- Scott

[Waggy]

YES YES A MILLION TIMES YES! He didn't just sell Maccabi Tel Aviv the soccer team, but Maccabi Tel Aviv the world basketball power too. The dude knows how to win and spends money to do it. And he's more Israeli than Russian I'd think, but really he's Canadian. In Israel he was known as the Canadian guy. He knows how to run multi-sport properties as well. Including iconic ones (there's no real equivalent to how huge Maccabi Tel Aviv basketball is in Israel. If the Leafs didn't exist and Montreal had 10-15 more stanley cups it'd come close)

[nfitz]

Who?I think they are talking about Don McGowan ... the weatherman on CFCF (CTV Montreal).

[billyfly]

What time on PTS did he talk about this Russian interest and other MLSE offers?

When he was taking to Dave Shultz.

[Shakes McQueen]

When he was taking to Dave Shultz.

Shoalts, not Shultz.

Not being the spelling police, just letting you know.

- Scott

[billyfly]

Shoalts, not Shultz.

Not being the spelling police, just letting you know.

- Scott


Damn spellcheck keeps chging Dave's last name.

[Whoop]

billy just doesn't like him.

I don't think he likes anyone on PTS. LOL

[billyfly]

billy just doesn't like him.

I don't think he likes anyone on PTS. LOL

Dave Perkins is a bitch.

[king dave]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6132/6034331000_f9c3d160e9_z.jpg
KD.

[Whoop]

I thought it was Griffin? Or was it Arthur? Or was it Jeff Blair? LOL

[Shakes McQueen]

I can't stand Bruce Arthur, and I'm glad he left PTS.

Griffin and Blair I don't mind listening to, though I think Blair is a bit of a schmuck. Grange is fine. Cox I can't stand. Brunt is king.

- Scott

[Whoop]

No doubt about the last guy.

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

Has been some news on this front? I did a google news search for MLSE and SALE, but nothing came up.

[billyfly]

Has been some news on this front? I did a google news search for MLSE and SALE, but nothing came up.

No. Bob McCowan made a statement last night on his show that talks were heating up. No announcement imminent but multiple offers are in and one of them is from a Russian.

[billyfly]

http://www.fan590.com/onair/primetimesports/

Dave Shoalts

[Waggy]

I can't stand Bruce Arthur, and I'm glad he left PTS.

Griffin and Blair I don't mind listening to, though I think Blair is a bit of a schmuck. Grange is fine. Cox I can't stand. Brunt is king.

- Scott

I'm torn on Bruce. I think he's got a great mind and is definitely a great writer. But I also find him preachy and self righteous (more so than the rest of us). I follow him on twitter and at least once a week he goes on rants about something that makes me want to unfollow him. But then he'll link some great article or make some astute observation about something and I won't.

[ManUtd4ever]

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/10/billionaires-2010_Alexander-Shnaider_NIU6.html

Alex Shnaider is ranked #773 in the world by Forbes, with a net worth of 1.3 billion.

[ag futbol]

The other thing to note about Shnaider is that (from what I've read) he has a lot of cash sitting around right now. He was basically forced out of some of his investments in Russia.

I wouldn't bed surprised if someone buys this thing and then splits it up. The synergistic value of all the enterprises combined is one thing, but the ego factor of billionaires wanting to own sports properties might trump that if we're talking about guys chasing these teams indiviually as opposed to one big conglomerate.

With all the teams put together, the asset becomes so pricy that everyone is forced to watch the bottom line.

[__wowza]

Damn spellcheck keeps chging Dave's last name.

thats not that bad, my t9 is broken. it keeps telling my friends to meet me at the corner of young and blood. :facepalm:

[Detroit_TFC]

As long as it isn't at the corner of Crips and Blood, not a great neighborhood.

[billyfly]

The other thing to note about Shnaider is that (from what I've read) he has a lot of cash sitting around right now. He was basically forced out of some of his investments in Russia.

I wouldn't bed surprised if someone buys this thing and then splits it up. The synergistic value of all the enterprises combined is one thing, but the ego factor of billionaires wanting to own sports properties might trump that if we're talking about guys chasing these teams indiviually as opposed to one big conglomerate.

With all the teams put together, the asset becomes so pricy that everyone is forced to watch the bottom line.

Dead on. People think that MLSE may be cheap, look out if a second tier guy is successful buying the shares from the TPF.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

or if hes a megomaniac like the dude running neuchatal xamax
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story/_/id/940002/chagaev-has-xamax-on-road-to-ruin?cc=5901