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nimamalek
03-11-2011, 12:56 PM
according to John Molinaro, would be a shame if we lost both Cann and Attakora, looks like he is waiting for six figures as well

kaos197O
03-11-2011, 01:12 PM
according to John Molinaro, would be a shame if we lost both Cann and Attakora, looks like he is waiting for six figures as well

I don't think that 80 to 120 thousand would be unreasonable. He has plenty of potential to grow further and showed well last season. If usanov and hscanovics can make $125,000 and play occassionally then surely Nana is worth 6 digits.

Pigfynn
03-11-2011, 01:13 PM
We are not losing Cann. He is back with the team

Pachuco
03-11-2011, 01:19 PM
Nana deserves six figures no doubt and he deserves a long term contract.

ManUtd4ever
03-11-2011, 01:26 PM
The new regime has demonstrated a willingness to be more than reasonable in their contract talks with DeRo and Cann, considering they were both under contract.

In this case, Attakora's contract is about to expire. Given the circumstances and his value to the team, I am confident that mutually amicable terms will be reached on a new contract extension.

TFCRegina
03-11-2011, 01:31 PM
according to John Molinaro, would be a shame if we lost both Cann and Attakora, looks like he is waiting for six figures as well

Nana had stated earlier it wasn't so much about the money but the contract length...

kaos197O
03-11-2011, 01:35 PM
Nana had stated earlier it wasn't so much about the money but the contract length...

He absolutely wants to stay in Toronto, and I am sure he will be very reasonable to negotiate with. I doubt the club will let him slip through heir fingers. Just hope they don't try to lowball him is all.

Whoop
03-11-2011, 01:35 PM
Not trying to start a war with this comment... LOL

But if you're Nana wouldn't you want more money say over 3 years than less money over say 5 or 6?

I figure he would want to hit the European market once he's a free agent or does he figure Europe will come calling for him?

Just throwing it out there.

nimamalek
03-11-2011, 01:46 PM
is Cann just back in camp on good will or did he get a new contract I'm still not clear on his situation

Darlofletch
03-11-2011, 02:00 PM
Not trying to start a war with this comment... LOL

But if you're Nana wouldn't you want more money say over 3 years than less money over say 5 or 6?

I figure he would want to hit the European market once he's a free agent or does he figure Europe will come calling for him?

Just throwing it out there.

I always got the impression that was the issue, TFC wanted to get him on a new multi year contract, but nana didn't want to tie himself down for too long, either due to management instability, or he wanted to be able to go to europe on his own terms when his contrcat was up, at the end of this season.

can't remember where I read it, and could well be wrong, but that was my general understanding.

I'd be happy to see him get into 100-200,000 range depending on how long he signs up for.

brad
03-11-2011, 02:00 PM
Molinaro also said he's taking a wait and see approach with what is happening with the team.

DangerRed
03-11-2011, 02:18 PM
I always got the impression that was the issue, TFC wanted to get him on a new multi year contract, but nana didn't want to tie himself down for too long, either due to management instability, or he wanted to be able to go to europe on his own terms when his contrcat was up, at the end of this season.

can't remember where I read it, and could well be wrong, but that was my general understanding.

I'd be happy to see him get into 100-200,000 range depending on how long he signs up for.

$200K for Nana in this league with this salary cap? You're nuts.

mastermixer
03-11-2011, 02:42 PM
$200K for Nana in this league with this salary cap? You're nuts.

Exactly. I don't think anyone in Europe is knocking on his door yet. I doubt he has the leverage to get $200k out of TFC.

djking2
03-11-2011, 02:44 PM
By his own admission Nana doesn't think he's ready either

Yohan
03-11-2011, 02:50 PM
150k is good wage for a solid MLS defender. when you get to great MLS defenders like Olave or Hurtado or Chad Marshall, 250k is about the average there

DangerRed
03-11-2011, 02:57 PM
150k is good wage for a solid MLS defender. when you get to great MLS defenders like Olave or Hurtado or Chad Marshall, 250k is about the average there

Maybe one day, but Nana isnt comparable to guys like that yet.

LittleOzzy
03-11-2011, 05:44 PM
Why can't these players just be happy with the contract they signed?

No one forced them to sign, they should wait out the contract before they start asking for more money. Does TFC get a refund if they play like crap?

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 05:48 PM
Why can't these players just be happy with the contract they signed?

No one forced them to sign, they should wait out the contract before they start asking for more money. Does TFC get a refund if they play like crap?


Um...this is a new contract because Nana's contract is up after this year and he'd be free to leave anywhere and the team would get nothing in return.

Or do you think he should play without a contract? Risk his career playing for 40k/year with no guarantees?

TFCRegina
03-11-2011, 05:51 PM
Um...this is a new contract because Nana's contract is up after this year and he'd be free to leave anywhere and the team would get nothing in return.

Or do you think he should play without a contract? Risk his career playing for 40k/year with no guarantees?

Of course, Roogs. Didn't you know? TFC Players play for the badge, and not the money.

Adrian Cann man, he won the MVP for this reason. :rolleyes:

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 05:52 PM
Ah yes I forgot.

Gazza
03-11-2011, 05:57 PM
Did anyone see any cheque-signing gestures against the Battery?

I can't see this not getting done. Just formalities.

Whoop
03-11-2011, 05:57 PM
I think there's some confusion given all these contract squabbles. LOL

This situation is different.

Nana's contract is due to expire at the end of the year but the reason they have to negotiate now is that if he doesn't sign by, I believe it's July 1st, he becomes a free agent at the end of the year.

Likely, management wants to get this resolved before the season starts so they're not negotiating during the season.

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 06:01 PM
But shouldn't he wait till the end of the season and negotiate a new contract then? :D

Whoop
03-11-2011, 06:08 PM
Oh Roogsy. LOL

If Nana wants to you yes, he could wait until the end of the season. But the fact of the matter is that there is a July 1st deadline. So if a contract isn't signed soon this could, technically, drag on until July 1st (or whenever the deadline is). And if a contract isn't signed by July 1st and it appears he doesn't want to sign with TFC at that point, I could TFC trading his rights to another team to make they don't lose him for nothing.

This is different than the Cann/DeRo scenarios. Nana's contract is expiring. DeRo's doesn't expire for another 2 years and Cann's for another 3 years.

(An aside, I wonder what would happen if the club offered to pick up the option for the last two years of DeRo's contract. I wonder if that would be enough.)

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 06:12 PM
I never understood why an expiring contract within 12 months (or another way to put it, a contract that is still in force) somehow changes the rules of the game compared to a contract that has 24 months left on it. Are they both still not contract renegotiations "mid-term"?

To me, the only acceptable position for someone who objects to contracts being renegotiated in the middle of their term is that negotiations should happen once the contract has run it's course. Otherwise, you're just splitting hairs.

TFC/Everton
03-11-2011, 06:17 PM
Signing Nana for a 3-4 year deal worth $400,000 to 500,000 would not be a bad signing.

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 06:20 PM
Hmm...maybe an escalating contract?

100k
125k
175k

400k over 3 years

Whoop
03-11-2011, 06:27 PM
I can see the escalating bit. Especially given his age.

As for the contract bit, I'm sure TFC would prefer to be going over a contract after the season is over, but in Nana's circumstance the issue of the July 1st is the overriding factor.

I'm sure if there was a similar clause in DeRo's contract (as per the CBA) that DeRo would be a free agent after this season if he didn't have a contract in place by July 1st, that the club would be more than willing to renegotiate. What is the date when a club has to pick up an option for next season?

Personally I would have no issue with DeRo if he came out said "I just want the last two years of my contract guaranteed" as opposed to "I want more money".

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 06:28 PM
But then that is still a renegotiation and an inconsistent position. You can't simply say "I believe in renegotiation but only when it suits the club". You either you do or you don't.

Whoop
03-11-2011, 06:46 PM
But then that is still a renegotiation and an inconsistent position. You can't simply say "I believe in renegotiation but only when it suits the club". You either you do or you don't.

Nana isn't asking to renegotiate his contract for this season nor is the club renegotiating his contract for this season. They're working on a new deal for the 2012 season, and beyond.

And it suits Nana too though. Not just the club.

If he doesn't sign saying "I want to test the waters out there" and gets hurt after the deadline is passed, he's screwed. Or could be screwed.

That's why I think he's not looking for a long term deal. I think he's willing to take the risk of a shorter term deal for more money. Because after that deal is done then he can move on.

If it was about security, I'm sure the club, given Nana's age, would be willing to give him the security of a long term deal at less dollars. But at the same time I feel Nana wants to move on to greener pastures in his career so he doesn't want to be tied down.

At this juncture the team comes and says we need to get a contract done by July 1st (which in essence is their "end of the season" timeline) and it appears Nana is amiable to a new contract. Nana could say no thanks. And test the waters come December. He probably feels a) he's not ready to move on and b) if he did test the waters come December he wouldn't be in position to maximize his earnings. He probably figures he's 2-3 seasons away from being ready to go across the ocean and he'd rather do it here than at some 2nd division Danish team.

That's the game you play.

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 06:48 PM
Are you sure that the new deal in place won't have a renegotiation of this current year?

Pigfynn
03-11-2011, 06:59 PM
But then that is still a renegotiation and an inconsistent position. You can't simply say "I believe in renegotiation but only when it suits the club". You either you do or you don't.

Hahaha Roogsy.

You speak about nuances and grey areas in one thread and then say this^

There is no difference between asking for a renegotiation when there is less than a year left on a contract and asking for a renegotiation 1 year into a 4 year deal? Really?

Whoop
03-11-2011, 07:01 PM
In the current cap mess they're in, I would say it's unlikely.

The other big difference too is Nana has never come and complained about his existing or asking for it to changed for this season. I mean I've never heard him threaten to sit out the year or leave camp in hopes of getting a raise or a new contract for this season.

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 07:03 PM
Hahaha Roogsy.

You speak about nuances and grey areas in one thread and then say this^

There is no difference between asking for a renegotiation when there is less than a year left on a contract and asking for a renegotiation 1 year into a 4 year deal? Really?


From a technical point of view, I don't see a difference. From a practical point of view, of course there is. That's the difference. However, as someone who deals with contracts you would know that there is no more validity to a contract with less than one year left than there is with a contract with more time to expire and vice versa. And that has always been the position of those on this board that deny that any contract can ever or should ever be renegotiated in mid-term. There is no "nuance" to this position. Either you believe a contract can be opened up or you don't.

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 07:04 PM
In the current cap mess they're in, I would say it's unlikely.

The other big difference too is Nana has never come and complained about his existing or asking for it to changed for this season. I mean I've never heard him threaten to sit out the year or leave camp in hopes of getting a raise or a new contract for this season.


Strawman argument Whoop...if Nana is currently renegotiating his contract to include the current service year, I will expect you to put up objections regardless if he whinged about his contract or not.

Pigfynn
03-11-2011, 07:12 PM
No more legal validity, of course...

The way it looks to everyone involved with the club is another matter. One I would argue is just as damaging to the overall reputation of this club as refusing to honor ex employees promises.

Whoop
03-11-2011, 07:16 PM
I would object too (and potentially so could the club). But there hasn't been any indication that he's looking to renegotiate this season's contract.

Once the season starts isn't the contract "locked in" for cap purposes? I don't know the vagaries of the cap. What if he signs June 1st? Can he still get a raise for this season or does it effect the cap?

You have to take those things to account. Again, I'm not going to suggest I know the MLS cap system to know if it does affect it or not.

As for your point with pigfynn, if Cann or DeRo come out in the final year of their contract and asked to discuss a new contract, I'm sure the club would be amiable to discuss it as opposed to asking to tear up their existing contract and ask for a raise.

Roogsy
03-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Very well then, we will see once his contract is sorted out whether this year's salary is renegotiated. I think it will be. Because if it isn't, he'd be stupid not to ask for a serious premium on the new contract starting after this season. I don't see that happening so I believe he will have the current contract ripped up and a new one going forward starting with this season. If not, I would probably beg off negotiations for the year and test the free agency market.

Chevy
03-11-2011, 07:50 PM
I never understood why an expiring contract within 12 months (or another way to put it, a contract that is still in force) somehow changes the rules of the game compared to a contract that has 24 months left on it. Are they both still not contract renegotiations "mid-term"?

To me, the only acceptable position for someone who objects to contracts being renegotiated in the middle of their term is that negotiations should happen once the contract has run it's course. Otherwise, you're just splitting hairs.

There's no difference. The issue that most have (and some dismiss) is with the douchebaggery and self-centred drama that went along with DeRo's attempt at re-negotiation.

Inklink
03-11-2011, 09:43 PM
Sign a long term deal, raise the dollar figure a little, and just walk away when you see more green in Europe. That's how it works right?

johnmolinaro
03-11-2011, 09:44 PM
he's not renogtiating his salary for the 2011 season, which is also the last year of his current deal.

He's negotiating for a new deal that would begin in 2012. If club doesn't resign him by July 1, they could lose him (without getting compensation) if Nana signs a pre-contract with another club.

sashavukelich
03-11-2011, 10:05 PM
he's not renogtiating his salary for the 2011 season, which is also the last year of his current deal.

He's negotiating for a new deal that would begin in 2012. If club doesn't resign him by July 1, they could lose him (without getting compensation) if Nana signs a pre-contract with another club.

thanks for some clarity John :) :scarf:

TorCanSoc
03-11-2011, 10:37 PM
So ok, Nana is not breaking contract. I get that. Adrian broke contract and walked out of his long term contract.

Is the problem MLS's pressure on these guys to sign long term agreements? Some of these guys are giving up a lot to play in their home city, ie. Cann, DeRo, Serioux. So MLS and MLSE have big wigs and hot shots to pressure (for all intents and purposes) one guy. One very young guy in my opinion (I'm old).

This puts Cann's contract in a bit of perspective for me. Was he pressured hard to sign long term? If he has a bust of a season, he can be written off. If he has a great season (which he did), then he's screwed with that long term contract.

John, what's your take on this essentially David versus Goliath kind of scenario when it comes to contract negotiations. I see a corporation with decades worth of experience in contract negotiations, versus a kid (and maybe his not well paid agent) persuing his dreams. Just the thought of that stacks the deck against these players... remember very very young players. We call them professionals and respect them greatly, but lets be real... most of them are 20-somethings.

A contract in that scenario is almost laughably one sided.

...chooo chooo train of thought now departing for tangent'ville.

Pachuco
03-12-2011, 08:39 AM
So ok, Nana is not breaking contract. I get that. Adrian broke contract and walked out of his long term contract.

Is the problem MLS's pressure on these guys to sign long term agreements? Some of these guys are giving up a lot to play in their home city, ie. Cann, DeRo, Serioux. So MLS and MLSE have big wigs and hot shots to pressure (for all intents and purposes) one guy. One very young guy in my opinion (I'm old).

This puts Cann's contract in a bit of perspective for me. Was he pressured hard to sign long term? If he has a bust of a season, he can be written off. If he has a great season (which he did), then he's screwed with that long term contract.

John, what's your take on this essentially David versus Goliath kind of scenario when it comes to contract negotiations. I see a corporation with decades worth of experience in contract negotiations, versus a kid (and maybe his not well paid agent) persuing his dreams. Just the thought of that stacks the deck against these players... remember very very young players. We call them professionals and respect them greatly, but lets be real... most of them are 20-somethings.

A contract in that scenario is almost laughably one sided.

...chooo chooo train of thought now departing for tangent'ville.

I don't know, I get the impression that Nana holds the cards in this one. We've heard more then once already that TFC has tried to negotiate with Nana and that he's been reluctant to sign a contract. I think he's playing it smart.

Whoop
03-12-2011, 02:10 PM
Nana is in position to do so. So he is being smart at weighing his options.

I think he's going to wait until June to see how the team is going to see if it is worth it to re-sign with the club and see how the club is going.

If he thinks it's not going in a direction he likes at the end of the season he will be free to sign with TFC or any other club around the world.

I think he probably plans to stay in the MLS for 2-3 years before making the jump.

He's definitely not going to be signing 3+ years with TFC or MLS club.

Whoop
03-12-2011, 02:12 PM
he's not renogtiating his salary for the 2011 season, which is also the last year of his current deal.

He's negotiating for a new deal that would begin in 2012. If club doesn't resign him by July 1, they could lose him (without getting compensation) if Nana signs a pre-contract with another club.

Thanks John. :D

Pookie
03-12-2011, 03:52 PM
I nearly spit out my very tasty Innis and Gunn when I read someone suggesting that a player in the final year of a deal should be treated/judged in the same manner as a player attempting to force a renegotiation with many years left on his deal.

Even with 7.4% Rum Cask goodness flowing through my bloodstream, I can grasp the concept that a player seeking an extension (and a club entertaining an extension before he walks) is clearly a different scenario than ripping up a contract with years remaining.

Maybe that's what some on this board need to finally adopt logic, alcohol. ;)

Beach_Red
03-12-2011, 04:27 PM
I nearly spit out my very tasty Innis and Gunn when I read someone suggesting that a player in the final year of a deal should be treated/judged in the same manner as a player attempting to force a renegotiation with many years left on his deal.

Even with 7.4% Rum Cask goodness flowing through my bloodstream, I can grasp the concept that a player seeking an extension (and a club entertaining an extension before he walks) is clearly a different scenario than ripping up a contract with years remaining.

Maybe that's what some on this board need to finally adopt logic, alcohol. ;)


If you're looking for logic in sports then yes, you're going to need alcohol ;).

What it really comes down to is agents - they can only make money off each player for a few years and they do everything they can to maximize that. So what goes into determining the scenario isn't so much how many years are left in the contract, but how many more contracts the agent thinks are left in the player.

ensco
03-12-2011, 05:05 PM
I think very few people are confused about this in reality. Most everyone understands that negotiating an extension, in the year before free agency, is hugely different from renegotiating an existing contract.