Toronto Vs Charleston Battery, Wednesday March 9. 7:15 PM. Pre/Game thread

[bman27]

Stream can be found here : http://www.torontofc.ca/node/6070

wont be able to watch the match myself due to being at work but hoping for a better showing then the weekend. also hope we get a look at our new CB Trialist

[Red CB Toronto]

I hope the Reds show something tonight, will not be able to see it either as I will be at the Raptors game, looking forward to seeing the highlights online, a few goals would be nice.

[daner90]

I am hoping we see something that is a bit more similar to our starting line up for Van City opposed to what we saw the last game...

[Kaz]

Why it's preseason and their are Trialist around, I expect him to play a weak squad against battery, and see what the trialist have, as well as playing guys who haven't had a lot of minutes, It's team building, and there are less then 10 days to make final selections, and then get the final team learning together, and gelling...

I'd guess over all in no particularly order.

Yourassowsky, Williams, Olyphant, Gargon, Bochiba, Zacarise, Stinson, Ornach, the young canadian, and Santos... with Martina, Dero and Labroca with a few academy kids being in there at some point.

though for the DC game this weekend I would hope we see something close to a starting XI

[Esquire]

According to Twitter:


Starting XI: Frei, Yourassowsky, Williams, Attakora, Harden, Labrocca, Cordon, Sturgis, Peterson, Martina, Makubuya

[Nuvinho]

Cordon getting TONNES of playing time

[Mark TFC]

Come On You Reds!

[forza_tfc]

Looking forward to Williams' performance--we certainly need help back there.

[Suds]

Very interested in seeing the new guy on trial - Williams.

[pekduck]

err.. do they know their mic is on?

they just said blacked eyed peas have stupid lyrics, lol

[Walms]

looking forward to this one, gona be nice to see witch of our Acadamy kids play and when

[flatpicker]

Clicked on link.

Saw some guys warming up.

Heard Black Eyed Peas "Tonight's gonna be a good night" playing on PA system.

Turned off volume.

[Suds]

err.. do they know their mic is on?

they just said blacked eyed peas have stupid lyrics, lol

Ahhahahahaaa!! They're checking out chicks in the stadium!! :D

[Suds]

If anyone on this board was just humming that last song I'm putting you on ignore. :D

[pekduck]

Ahhahahahaaa!! They're checking out chicks in the stadium!! :D

too bad camera guy didn't get the queue to zoom in on the target :D

[pekduck]

wait.. i thought King Dave supposed to sing it

[adamdz]

I think we need more people with access to enable game day chat so we can chat about how terrible the team is live more often

[Suds]

here we go

[swan]

anyone else getting major lagging

[Suds]

good for me

[Esquire]

mine's fine too

[Yohan]

I'm sick of retarded back passes to frei. And a lot of them are dangerously close to getting picked off.

[swan]

shutdown and restarted and seems to have done the trick..

[Pachuco]

Actually I think their passing has been quite good so far. Nana is doing quite good at moving the ball forward and getting it up to the midfielders/forwards

[swan]

spoke to soon..

arggg

[swan]

wish this guy would blow his nose it's drivin me crazy

[Yohan]

wow. terrible first touches. sloppy passing

[flamehawk]

penalty!

[Yohan]

1-0 Sturgis (PK)

[pekduck]

sturgis , close one but at least converted

[Pachuco]

Sturgis with the goal. TFC 1-0

[Kaz]

Charleston is playing rough, they are playing really really physical.

[Suds]

lets' see how we work with a lead

[forza_tfc]

Why hasn't Dero been playing in these matches? I understand they want to give the trialists a go, but isn't there just one game left before the season starts?

[werewolf]

Scoring on a penalty, things surely are different from before.

[Yohan]

lol@magic spray

[smtavare]

omg peterson sucks, shiat crosses

[Pinkie]

Why hasn't Dero been playing in these matches? I understand they want to give the trialists a go, but isn't there just one game left before the season starts?

dero is slightly injured...apparently. so really..who knows?

[Pachuco]

Why hasn't Dero been playing in these matches? I understand they want to give the trialists a go, but isn't there just one game left before the season starts?

He took a slight knock according to the commentator last game.

[kaos197O]

I'm sick of retarded back passes to frei. And a lot of them are dangerously close to getting picked off.

Who is your service provider? I am with bell in Waterloo and everything just shut down. Only my 3G is working. Bullshit!

[Kaz]

This system sucks, it's so easy to shut down apparently.. this may be a really long season if all the other side has to do is press.

[forza_tfc]

dero is slightly injured...apparently. so really..who knows?

Thanks. I'm more nervous this year than I was at the start of last year.

[Alonso]

anyone know of any other streams? mine is cutting out every minute or so... really annoying

[Yohan]

Who is your service provider? I am with bell in Waterloo and everything just shut down. Only my 3G is working. Bullshit!
some small local company

[swan]

anyone know of any other streams? mine is cutting out every minute or so... really annoying


so i'm not the only one..

[Yohan]

lol. did that guy just get bollocked in the nads?

[Pachuco]

My stream hasn't studdered once. I'm with cogeco. Dumped all my Bell services last month when they tried to pull the usage based billing crap.

[kaos197O]

some small local company

Damn, wish I were you right now!

[Yohan]

Damn, wish I were you right now!well yes. i am awesome ;)

it seems like whenever TFC comes under pressure by opposition coming within 5 metres, they do a back pass. it's a little annoying

[Alonso]

so i'm not the only one..


Hey man, you planning on going to the Canada game in Detroit? Do you think KW Company might plan a bus or something?

[Yohan]

that Williams guy doesn't seem very confident with the ball

[kaos197O]

well yes. i am awesome ;)

it seems like whenever TFC comes under pressure by opposition coming within 5 metres, they do a back pass. it's a little annoying

Hahahaha. Great ego :D. It's the whole midfield not getting into space thing. I thought they were working on that these last 4 days.

[BayernTFC]

that Williams guy doesn't seem very confident with the ball
Looks okay to me. He hasn't had much time to play with his teammates. He's made a few good long passes through the middle of the field.

[Kaz]

If this is what we can expect for the season, I don't think I'm going to bmo this year.

[A Stick]

He took a slight knock according to the commentator last game.

You know this is calm before latest shit storm Mero blows in from the east coast again.

:facepalm:

[Pachuco]

that Williams guy doesn't seem very confident with the ball

You and I must be watching two completely different games. I see TFC being patient in their build up and passing the ball well and Williams doesn't look uncomfortable at all to me.

[bigtfcfan]

we need more passes from defense to midfied!

[Pachuco]

The more and more crosses I see from martina though I'm not impressed with his ability there. He doesn't seem to drive the ball at all.

[fiji_blue]

why r they passing back to the goalie and playing in thier own end ...aarrghh

[Kaz]

This is the least attractive football I've seen in a long time.

[BayernTFC]

You and I must be watching two completely different games. I see TFC being patient in their build up and passing the ball well and Williams doesn't look uncomfortable at all to me.
I see a lot of back passing in our half of the field, but not much movement forward and we're doing nothing in the middle of the field again. Our opponents are only the Battery. I don't expect Williams to be overly comfortable with his teammates yet.

[pekduck]

almost a de ja vu from the Chicago goal... no one marking the high box after rebound

[Pachuco]

I see a lot of back passing in our half of the field, but not much movement forward and we're doing nothing in the middle of the field again. Our opponents are only the Battery. I don't expect Williams to be overly comfortable with his teammates yet.

Yes, the passing could be more threatening. But we are atleast moving the ball without launching it upfield and giving it up. Also notice we are going against the wind right now. Means we need to build up the play patiently on the ground. We may be playing the Battery, but we are missing two players you would be key in moving the ball forward (JDG and Dero).

[forza_tfc]

It's going to be a rough start to the season. Apart from Mero & Maicon, who else will be scoring for us?

[J .]

You and I must be watching two completely different games. I see TFC being patient in their build up and passing the ball well and Williams doesn't look uncomfortable at all to me.

I think your a poor judge of how build up happens in football if that your analysis. Passing in your 1/3 and giving it away in the 2/3 is not a build up in any league.

The midfield to defense gap has been massive and the majority of our touches have come from the guys who are the worst on the ball. That is not how you build up.

The only agreement I have is that Williams doesnt look uncomfortable. He just doesn't look good on the ball.


Yes, the passing could be more threatening. But we are atleast moving the ball without launching it upfield and giving it up. Also notice we are going against the wind right now. Means we need to build up the play patiently on the ground. We may be playing the Battery, but we are missing two players you would be key in moving the ball forward (JDG and Dero).

Our best attacks have come from passing over the top. And no they dont give it away in the air, they just pass it right to the other team.

[Suds]

You can see the idea but the players out there are just not in sync ... they are not moving as a complete unit out there.

You still see individual players reacting late and moving to where they should be when we have possession.

[Yohan]

You can see the idea but the players out there are just not in sync ... they are not moving as a complete unit out there.

You still see individual players reacting late and moving to where they should be when we have possession.
yeah. it's almost like the players are trying to run before they know how to walk

[BayernTFC]

Yes, the passing could be more threatening. But we are atleast moving the ball without launching it upfield and giving it up. Also notice we are going against the wind right now. Means we need to build up the play patiently on the ground. We may be playing the Battery, but we are missing two players you would be key in moving the ball forward (JDG and Dero).
There was a nice run forward from Martina, a couple of decent runs along the left wing from Yourassowsky, one decent pass from Sturgis and a couple of long passes from Williams. I'm still waiting to see our midfield show that they can get the ball to our forwards. I don't want to see TFC hoofing the ball forward all the time anymore either. There were plenty of times last year where TFC had to cope without JDG and/or Dero. We also have to contend with those two being called up to the national squad.

[forza_tfc]

You can see the idea but the players out there are just not in sync ... they are not moving as a complete unit out there.

You still see individual players reacting late and moving to where they should be when we have possession.

It's a lack of individual skill. Best coaching in the world can't fix that.

[forza_tfc]

We should be schooling any USL team. From what I've seen, TFC looks like they'd be a competitive USL club. Yes, we've mostly been fielding trialists, but considering our slim roster numbers many of these guys will be starters.

[boozilla]

Again, negative football that stops at the half way line.
Is passing to Frei a Winter mandate? It's as unimaginative as last season's Gargan throw-ins.
The Midfield is completely ineffective. In Dero's and JDG's absence, I was hoping someone would step up.

[Suds]

It's a lack of individual skill. Best coaching in the world can't fix that.

It's part of it. The bigger part is reading the game and knowing where you're supposed to be in various situations.

As I watch I can see guys thinking Oh, yeah. Labrocca has the ball I need to move over there. But by the time they do they are already marked. This si what I mean when I say it's the second pass that is causing the breakdown or allow the other team to close us down so fast.

That second guy need to be moving into position as soon as the pass is made to Labrocca; not when he's received the ball and turned to make the pass. We are late in our movement.

[pekduck]

yourassowsky is the new nick garcia....

[Pachuco]

There was a nice run forward from Martina, a couple of decent runs along the left wing from Yourassowsky, one decent pass from Sturgis and a couple of long passes from Williams. I'm still waiting to see our midfield show that they can get the ball to our forwards. I don't want to see TFC hoofing the ball forward all the time anymore either. There were plenty of times last year where TFC had to cope without JDG and/or Dero. We also have to contend with those two being called up to the national squad.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I can see our midfielders aren't getting the ball to our forwards, I even said that. My explanation is the players just aren't good enough to play this system. I think Sturgis can be. But not the rest of the guys. I get that with the team that is on the field right now we are going absolutely knowhere.

But when I look at the system in itself, and the amount of passing they are doing, I will take this any day over hoofing the ball up and giving it to the other team. That's what our defenders were taught last year. This year, you can see they are all comfortable in passing it to each other. Now we need our mifielders to start showing more so the buildup happens further up the field.

[CBTFC]

This is a pretty horrible broadcast, by todays webcast standards.

The least they could've done was thrown another guy in there for colour commentary, and maybe a stadium mic or two to capture the tiny bit of crowd noise that is there.

Ha, look at the rain come down. Should make it interesting.

[Moe911]

This team is garbage, pk for the battery.

[boozilla]

Penalty. Rock bottom, yet?

[Pachuco]

Like someone else said, Youroswowsky is the next Nick Garcia :)

[Pachuco]

Where is Bouchiba? I mean, he's an attacking mid from what I know. We just signed the guy, you'd think he'd be playing. I don't think I can watch Labrocca play anymore, it's frustrating as hell.

[Yohan]

this team is worse than year 1 TFC

[fiji_blue]

whats going to happen in Vancouver Yikes!!

[boozilla]

I hope it rains so we can't see TFC crying.

[Yohan]

Ornoch in...

[SoccMan]

This is pure garbage, yes I know this is preseason, however , the majority of these players are no better then USL division 1. Crap, crap and more crap, get some bloody players who can play this is pure shit, who wants to watch this garbage!

[swan]

so i'm guessing we are down.. what the score..

[Suds]

Ornoch trying to make his mark on the game

We really need someone to step and take control out there

[BayernTFC]

so i'm guessing we are down.. what the score..
Charleston 2 - 1 TFC

[boozilla]

I actually like Youroswowsky.

[Pachuco]

Not impressed with Makubuja in both games now. I get that he's an Academy kid but why is he getting playing time over a guy we just signed? You'd think we'd want to play a game that resembles the TFC players by this point.

[Suds]

I actually like Youroswowsky.

Asif mentioned he is actually out of his natural position in the 2nd half.

[Suds]

ughhh!! so late to support each other out there

[Derko]

Passing back to Frei just for the sake of passing back!!wtf

[Pinkie]

Passing back to Frei just for the sake of passing back!!wtf

pretty much that. so frustrating. and scary as hell because there have been a few times where the ball could've gone in the goal. not a fan.

[Parkdale]

I think I just saw a shirtless RPB_london jumping in the stands. WORD!

[rocker]

i think we'll have a pretty darn good team for the reserve league ;)
now they gotta work on the starting 11 for the regular games. ;)

[Pachuco]

is the left back Astone Morgan?

EDIT: Yes it is. Impressive kid. Sign him up. Probably the best LB we got.

[Suds]

SHIRTS OFF!!! Ahahahaaaa!!! Awesome!

[boozilla]

So, you're down 2:1 against a "weaker" side. You would press, right?
Trialists or not, there is no apparent system or chemistry in place.

[Pachuco]

I see a system, just don't see players good enough to play the system. From the midfielder to our forwards. Our defense in my opinion is doing the right thing.

[pekduck]

seriously dump yourassowsky into the gator pond after this match...

[Suds]

I see a system, just don't see players good enough to play the system. From the midfielder to our forwards. Our defense in my opinion is doing the right thing.

Yep. The breakdown is in the midfield for sure.

Think of any good teams who have played this type of system. Always had amazing midfield players.

[flamehawk]

........worrying, worrying...

[Yohan]

I know a lot of first team players are missing, but man. That was frustrating to watch.

Couldn't really rate the strikers because well, they got very little service.

I didn't think Yourassowsky was that bad, except giving away a penalty. Might beok as a depth LB

[pekduck]

Yep. The breakdown is in the midfield for sure.

Think of any good teams who have played this type of system. Always had amazing midfield players.

we do not have a single midfielder at the moment

the ones we have in that position are just warm bodies..

[SoccMan]

Bring Mo back!

[TOBOR !]

I tuned in late and all I saw was desperate route one football. I guess the possession game goes into the tank when you're down one, late on.

[Pinkie]

seriously dump yourassowsky into the gator pond after this match...

goddamn...seriously seconding this opinion. that last move of his. not cool. i understand he's playing out of position but when your keeper calls for the ball you fucking let him have it. you don't kick it behind him. that's pretty basic, imo.

[Suds]

Well, that was not encouraging at all.

I was hoping to see some bright spots but I cannot recall anything much that can be taken from that game as a positive.

[bman27]

gareth_wheeler Gareth Wheeler
And I get the vibe this team is nowhere near the team you'll see during the season. More players to come. #TFC


I sincerely hope so!

[Parkdale]

I tuned in late and all I saw was desperate route one football. I guess the possession game goes into the tank when you're down one, late on.


it was like that most of the game.

the only thing 'dutch' about this system is playing it back and making Frei come off his line. beyond that... it's just the usual scrappyball we're used too. less long ball though. I think people have to do puchups for every hail mary pass

[Huyton]

Wow...this is going to be a long season, as Skank-ouver becomes the first Canadian team into the MLS playoffs.

[19Barrett19]

it's pre season relax everyone yourassowsky wont be on the team ... jdg dero and buchiba will do great in the mid especially jdg. martina looks good the goals will come once the first team is set.

[daner90]

At what point do Winter and Co. think about adapting there system a bit more to the players we have because it is clear these guys cannot play the total football he wants them to

[kaos197O]

gareth_wheeler Gareth Wheeler
And I get the vibe this team is nowhere near the team you'll see during the season. More players to come. #TFC


I sincerely hope so!

Blah, Blah, Blah. Tired of hearing about whats coming. I still don't know what we have.

[ManUtd4ever]

Well, that was an uninspiring display of football in which TFC couldn't sustain any possession in the offensive third of the pitch. The weather conditions didn't help but the lack of talent and chemistry on the pitch tonight was obvious.

TFC looked fluid against European opposition in Turkey but they have struggled against MLS/USL clubs when faced with an aggressive, physical style of play.

It's difficult to judge what this team will look like on opening night against Vancouver because we haven't seen any semblence of the best starting lineup play together yet with the number of trialists and injuries.

I'm trying to stay optimistic with the hope that our final roster with the likes of DeRo, JDG, Santos, (and potential signings) will be far more competitive than the combination of trialists, draft picks, and Academy players that have played the last few games.

[Suds]

At what point do Winter and Co. think about adapting there system a bit more to the players we have because it is clear these guys cannot play the total football he wants them to

That's a short term solution which requires you to change your style every year to match whatever team you have. It's like Bits-n-Bites.

It's like fixing your golf swing. You'll get worse before getting better. This will suck for us paying fans who have to watch what could be some pretty poor footy in the short term. There's a much bigger plan in place to build this style of play from the academy to the sr. team.

[19Barrett19]

what did eveyone think of dicoy williams?

[OurGame]

That's a short term solution which requires you to change your style every year to match whatever team you have. It's like Bits-n-Bites.

It's like fixing your golf swing. You'll get worse before getting better. This will suck for us paying fans who have to watch what could be some pretty poor footy in the short term. There's a much bigger plan in place to build this style of play from the academy to the sr. team.

Ya it's a ten year plan / half way there

[London]

SHIRTS OFF, for our losing TEAM!!!!!


fuck, at least we had fun

[Nuvinho]

gareth_wheeler (http://twitter.com/gareth_wheeler)

Winter refused to comment on the play of Dicoy Williams, but he did give me a "wow, what can I say" ... don't think that's good ;) #TFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC)

gareth_wheeler (http://twitter.com/gareth_wheeler)

Winter also says he's still looking for a left-winger and a striker that can score goals for him regularly #TFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC)

eth_wheeler

Bouchiba carrying a knock so didn't play. Same went for De Rosario. Nana came off at time to rest him - coming back from injury #TFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC)

gareth_wheeler (http://twitter.com/gareth_wheeler)

I was again impressed with Cordon - Winter agrees and likes the player as well #TFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC)

[bman27]

Ya it's a ten year plan / half way there

Except you might as well throw away the past four years of this team, thats what happens when you have a shite gm and a new coach every year. We might as well think on the same page as Vancouver and Portland cause thats what we are facing, almost completely new squad this upcoming season playing in a style it has never competed with before. Everyone is worried because we don't have a clue who is coming in or out, gone are the days that we practically know who is going to be signed before Mo Did. lets wait and see what we put out for vancouver and who comes to the club in the next week. remember who won this tournament last year? remember how well they did? its not a big deal

[Suds]

SHIRTS OFF, for our losing TEAM!!!!!


fuck, at least we had fun

you guys got some good screen time in the second half ... that rain looked crazy!

[ag futbol]

I think Cordon was good ... but he needs to be gradually phased into playing at a professional level.

We don't want to just throw him out there to the wolves and shoot his confidence when things fall apart. He's doing well, he deserves some PT for sure, but let's be realistic about what we should be asking from him at this point.

[dow117]

Fricking negative football again ... the whole pre season from what I have seen. At least kick and run has some thrills !!!

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I'm not nearly as disappointed/angry as some people here. Thought we were decent the first half, obviously to build on. Second half not so much. Didn't think yourassowsky was that bad either with exception to that one thing. Labrocca also looked ok first half. Everyone sorta disappoeared second half, martina was ok but looked like he was carrying the load a la de ro

[London]

you guys got some good screen time in the second half ... that rain looked crazy!


the best was it was five shirtless guys behind the Five guys burger and fries AD

[Stryker]

Glad I didn't put everything else on the back burner like I usually do to watch TFC games.
No more missing family stuff or work to support this team.
Truth is I won't be buying a thing or putting much effort into this team until I see some skill brought in and some heart by the supporting cast.
Call it fare weather fan support if you want but right now I refuse to be a shmuck and continue to go gonzo for.....THAT crap.

[Pachuco]

I don't know about Cordon. I thought our midfield was as bad as it gets, and Cordon seemed somewhat invisible so I'm not sure I can say I thought he was good today. The only thing I'll say is the stream does make it difficult to see who the players are sometimes.

As for Dicoy, He just looks alright. Nothing special, but he wasn't the worst guy on TFC today, that's for sure.

[jloome]

I think it was a deceptive game.It appeared several times as if they had forward momentum, then deliberately moved the ball in to a disadvantageous rear position to set up a "build from the back."

I could be wrong, but I think Winter was deliberately instructing them to practice building from deep, even when it wasn't required, and then told them to cut loose a bit in the last 15 minutes.

Still not impressive, but also not the starters, and quite possibly not a reflection of anything in particular.

I don't think it's a surprise a club with 17 players under contract (or something like that) lacks depth, and this definitely wasn't our first team, so people might be getting a little premature on just how crap we are.

[noochie]

jloome, I would argue that having crap on the bench might as well mean a crap team. We have seen this North America schedule take its toll in terms of number of games and injuries such that the best teams will be the ones that have a strong bench. Having 11 decent players take the field may get you off to a good start... but a good season it does not make for necessarily.

[Darlofletch]

well going by the experimental line up, it wasn't that far off what i expected, a few good moments here or there that show the promise of what we're trying to do, but generally, our players just aren't good enough to be able to play that.

it's going to be a long year or more before we get our players comfortable with it, or get enough new guys in who can play that way.

the question is, is winter willing or able to make the adjustments necessary to be a bit more competitive in the short term? or will he stubbornly stick to the plan throughout a tough season?

I'm not sure what I want ther answer to be to that?

hopefully supporters and management can stay positive as no matter how bad it gets, just giving up and changing everything would be the worst thing we could do.

positives from tonight? not that many, but I thought Nana was doing a good job of bringing the ball out of defence, which he showed against chicago as well. that's going to be huge if he can develop that, our 3 man midfield is already going to be a bit outmanned, the last thing we need is de guzman constantly having to go back to bring the ball out of defence like he had to so often last year and limiting the options of midfielders to pass to.

morgan and cordon did alright, williams didn't look too bad considering he hasn't been with us too long.

that's about it really, overall we just looked too slow, needing too much time to move into space, needing too many touches, and never really looking all that dangerous at all. hopefully all that will come, adding de guzman, de ro and santos will definitely help, hopefully there's more help on the way, I certainly don't see soolsma as an answer. would like to see bouchiba play, martina? he'll have moments where he looks great, but he's got infuriatingly inconsistent written all over him.

[TFC/Everton]

Bring Mo back!

:facepalm:

[BeerBaron95]

dero is slightly injured...apparently. so really..who knows?

Dero was spotted schmoozing with locals and 'fans' up in the three lions pub... couldnt care less about the guy s i didnt bother going up there



He took a slight knock according to the commentator last game.

should have been a major knock ;)


pretty much that. so frustrating. and scary as hell because there have been a few times where the ball could've gone in the goal. not a fan.

Pat and I, mostly Pat has been yelling at Frei and Winter to boot the ball down the field as this attack from the back is visibly not working



SHIRTS OFF, for our losing TEAM!!!!!


fuck, at least we had fun

absolutely!!!!

SHIRTS OFF in the downpour infront of the 5 GUYS signs the highlight of the night.

STAY TUNED

[jloome]

jloome, I would argue that having crap on the bench might as well mean a crap team. We have seen this North America schedule take its toll in terms of number of games and injuries such that the best teams will be the ones that have a strong bench. Having 11 decent players take the field may get you off to a good start... but a good season it does not make for necessarily.

Don't remember anyone saying it would! Or that our bench depth was good. Just that this game looked like a specific training exercise to me and indicative of very little.

[noochie]

You are correct, I was extrapolating ;-) perhaps unfairly. Definitely have a lot of work to do on the depth side but with time running out its unlikely that we will have a solid core heading into the season. Frustrating of course...

[Nuvinho]

add one more body to the roster?

gareth_wheeler

I'm hearing Zavarise has signed with #TFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC) ... not sure if he has or not. Will confirm tomorrow. #TFC (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23TFC)

[Kyle_121]

This is pathetic. We've gone from the coked out scottsman to getting the dutch rudder.

This is gonna be one hell of a year.

[Alixir]

gonna be a longggg season lads.

[Fushida]

This is pathetic. We've gone from the coked out scottsman to getting the dutch rudder.

This is gonna be one hell of a year.


gonna be a longggg season lads.

hahahahahahaha

[Blowing Bubbles]

There's a much bigger plan in place to build this style of play from the academy to the sr. team.

that part of the plan is a 10 year project. I'm all for it just - the odds of that being held in place for even 3 years if we don't have good results in the first 2 years is very low.

It's not like the ownership is married to this plan because they grew up with it or something. They're going to be after results ..... the speech about from academy to MLS is a nice one, but that's probably a more long term goal than even winning the CCL.

[Waggy]

that part of the plan is a 10 year project. I'm all for it just - the odds of that being held in place for even 3 years if we don't have good results in the first 2 years is very low.

It's not like the ownership is married to this plan because they grew up with it or something. They're going to be after results ..... the speech about from academy to MLS is a nice one, but that's probably a more long term goal than even winning the CCL.


Ya and that 4th preseason game... boy. MLSE will get pissed REAL quick if they don't turn it around soon :facepalm:

Everyone does realize this team is being TOTALLY rebuilt right? From a philosophical, management and personell standpoint? And that this year the team will be terrible? Losing a few preseason games, let alone regular season ones, isn't going to derail the rebuild. If you actually thought this team was going to be competitive this year then you clearly don't/have never followed the mighty Toronto FC. If by the end of this year we're seeing improved play, the growing adoption of the total football system and are able to find a few more pieces for our roster then I'll consider it a resounding success. If we make the playoffs I'll be over the moon

[craigtfc]

Don't worry season ticket holders there is a price freeze for next season.....

[Brooker]

wrist slashing has begun.... i missed it.

[J .]

Which is completely ridiculous to totally break everything down so quick, starting from January. If that was the plan. They should have done that after Mo was fired and had a plan to succeed him. But they waited until January and want to rebuild the entire system?

This whole thing is bullshit. Accepting it is ridiculous.

That was some horrible football they played. Passing back to the Gk as a first option is bad football. I am down for possession, I think its a great idea. That was not possession football. That was the worst kind of football. That was listless football.

The fact they want to take another 2-3 years rebuild is fucked up after 4 years of failure when you can use to academy to develop a system, build it over time and win.

[DichioTFC]

How was the movement by the midfielders? Everyone's critical of the defenders, were the midfielders trying to make space for themselves? Coming back for the ball, overlaps, give-and-gos... have these things been employed so far in the preseason?

[J .]

How was the movement by the midfielders? Everyone's critical of the defenders, were the midfielders trying to make space for themselves? Coming back for the ball, overlaps, give-and-gos... have these things been employed so far in the preseason?


The midfield was static and ineffective. Unable to maintain possession or attack.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Which is completely ridiculous to totally break everything down so quick, starting from January. If that was the plan. They should have done that after Mo was fired and had a plan to succeed him. But they waited until January and want to rebuild the entire system?

so we should have kept mo?
or kept some of his players?
or kept some of his system?

i agree they waited too long to replace him (way too long).
Might be because they hadnt identified their target until then or because they are fucking lazy.
Regardless this is our situation and its bettern than what we had with mo regardless of how our preseason (which is hardly an indicator for the season) is going.
Had to wipe the slate clean.

[Blowing Bubbles]

Ya and that 4th preseason game... boy. MLSE will get pissed REAL quick if they don't turn it around soon :facepalm:



get reading comprehension. I said the plan to build a pipeline of Ajax-clones from the Academy to 1st team is a 10 year plan that won't see the light of day if we have 2 bad years in MLS.

This preseason is irrelevant.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

why sign winter for 3?
why put 17 million into the academy?

[menefreghista]

why sign winter for 3?
why put 17 million into the academy?

It should be noted that they $17 million for an academy that keeps getting thrown around has not happened yet. I'd like to see the full announcement on this, including what is being thrown in by the chosen municipality before I start giving the team credit for it.

People also need to temper their enthusiasm about the academy. If you can produce 1 bonafide starter per year on average from your academy you are doing something amazing.

While I'm willing to give the new management team some time to acclimatize, J. is dead right. You should not be taking 2-3 years to rebuild in MLS. Not in a parity league with a $2.7 million cap and the 3 DP rule (which for some reason we don't want to take advantage of), where 10 of 18 teams make the playoffs. Saying we need 2-3 years to rebuild is using a hockey mentality. Its not the same in soccer, especially when you are in what is essentially a development league in terms of overall world power.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I just dont believe that it can be done in a month and a half. I kinda feel like NY was a fluke and LA had Bruce Arena. Please feel free to pull more examples like NY (which is a similar situation to ours). Outside of that few teams have recreated themselves in so little time. Dallas took a couple seasons, as did RSL

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Same with columbus.

Youre right about the academy not being official yet, but id be amazed if it didnt happen. We may not produce a huge amount of stars but we will be producing functional local players that can step into first team which in my opinion is just as important.

[Shakes McQueen]

Said it before, and I'll say it again - I'm fine with the team not being very good this year, as long as it's clear that they are implementing a good system, and trying to work out which players fit long term within that system.

Rebuilding from the ground up in MLS is certainly faster and easier than in most other leagues (simply due to the massive number of footballers throughout the world), but it's still not an instant process (with a couple of rare exceptions). And Mo left Winter a mighty salary cap/roster mess when he left. It's going to take some time to sort that out.

@ OMY - I too would be amazed if the proposed academy didn't happen - it, too, just takes some time to work out. Sounds to me like they are still just shopping around for the best possible deal financially, before they commit somewhere. I think that's reasonable.

- Scott

[Fort York Redcoat]

That was some horrible football they played. Passing back to the Gk as a first option is bad football. I am down for possession, I think its a great idea. That was not possession football. That was the worst kind of football.



This is what I saw as well. I don't agree that the midfield was ineffective on their own. The fact defenders clear first choice was Frei instead of moving it forward was indicative. The final shows how ridiculous it is to rest on a 1 nil lead.

You want to play possession? Fine. Play it through to the available midfield.

They have my measured patience but I don't want to pay full MLS price for Academy level play.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Said it before, and I'll say it again - I'm fine with the team not being very good this year, as long as it's clear that they are implementing a good system, and trying to work out which players fit long term within that system.

Rebuilding from the ground up in MLS is certainly faster and easier than in most other leagues (simply due to the massive number of footballers throughout the world), but it's still not an instant process (with a couple of rare exceptions). And Mo left Winter a mighty salary cap/roster mess when he left. It's going to take some time to sort that out.

- Scott

yep, thats pretty much it.
Id love to see anyone take over what Winter has (other coaches sauve maybe Arena/Schmidt included as well as posters on here) and succeed...

[Suds]

This is what I saw as well. I don't agree that the midfield was ineffective on their own. The fact defenders clear first choice was Frei instead of moving it forward was indicative. The final shows how ridiculous it is to rest on a 1 nil lead.

You want to play possession? Fine. Play it through to the available midfield.

They have my measured patience but I don't want to pay full MLS price for Academy level play.

You can't play it through the midfield unless the other player in the midfield are available; and that is exactly what happened last night.

It was the second pass in the midfield that kept breaking down. The pass from the defense out to Labrooca. Labrocca receives the past, turns to move the ball and there is no one there. So he passes back to the defender, who is now under pressure, who then moves it all the way back to re-start the build up.

It's the old business saying - don't try to fix symptoms, fix the problem. Negative plays to the goalie are a symptom of the problem. The problem is the second & third pass through the midfield. This whole system is designed for the midfield movement. Right now we do not have it.

[TFC Cityboy]

ffs people, it's pre-season, we are rebuilding from scratch and we were playing a second string team.

Yes it could be a tough season, but weren't we all screaming for change and some kind of longer-term plan last season?

Let's keep this in perspective please.

[ManUtd4ever]

I would be far more disappointed and pessimistic if it was the eventual starting 11 that had performed poorly the last few games.

Unfortunately, because of the drastic changes to the front office and the subsequent roster overhaul, the entire preseason has been used to evaluate trialists, Academy players, and draft picks.

Ideally, these last few games should be used as a final tune up for the starters and key reserve players but it was unrealistic to expect the roster to have been settled at this point because of all the holes that needed to be filled.

I believe we will see a much improved team on opening night once the final roster is in place. Whether it will be talented enough to be successful in the short term will be difficult to gauge until they play at least a few regular season games together.

[Alixir]

Let's keep this in perspective please.
so far this preseaon we have scored like 1 goal that was not the result of a penalty kick....perspective.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

I would be far more disappointed and pessimistic if it was the eventual starting 11 that had performed poorly the last few games.

Unfortunately, because of the drastic changes to the front office and the subsequent roster overhaul, the entire preseason has been used to evaluate trialists, Academy players, and draft picks.

Ideally, these last few games should be used as a final tune up for the starters and key reserve players but it was unrealistic to expect the roster to have been settled at this point because of all the holes that needed to be filled.

I believe we will see a much improved team on opening night once the final roster is in place. Whether it will be talented enough to be successful in the short term will be difficult to gauge until they play at least a few regular season games together.

agreed

[Fort York Redcoat]

You can't play it through the midfield unless the other player in the midfield are available; and that is exactly what happened last night.

It was the second pass in the midfield that kept breaking down. The pass from the defense out to Labrooca. Labrocca receives the past, turns to move the ball and there is no one there. So he passes back to the defender, who is now under pressure, who then moves it all the way back to re-start the build up.

It's the old business saying - don't try to fix symptoms, fix the problem. Negative plays to the goalie are a symptom of the problem. The problem is the second & third pass through the midfield. This whole system is designed for the midfield movement. Right now we do not have it.

I disagree. That midfield WAS available but unsuccessful at the quick passing necessary to move the ball on. The options WERE there for the centre of midfield to try and distribute but the defenders lacked the confidence in their midfield to move it. Without taking chances in games we can't move on. I mean, if this is preseason then this is when to take those chances to build on NOT capitulate to long balls down the flank to Martina every time.

[ManUtd4ever]

so far this preseaon we have scored like 1 goal that was not the result of a penalty kick....perspective.

Actually, TFC scored a few goals in Turkey and a few so far in Florida & Charleston but that is not the point. The key offensive players for this club have barely seen the pitch so I agree that some perspective is in order.

[Oldtimer]

I'm afraid we're going to have to wait for the regular season to see how our team actually will play. It's all experimental at this point.

[ManUtd4ever]

BTW, one of the few positives I took from last night was the play of Sturgis. We finally had the chance to see him play and he was clearly the most confident TFC player on the pitch, exhibiting ball control, taking set pieces, and delivering accurate passes.

[Wull]

so far this preseaon we have scored like 1 goal that was not the result of a penalty kick....perspective.

He's not denying we've not been good enough, he's saying stop with the knee-jerk reactions to pre-season losses.

We demanded change from the usual and now we have the infrastructure in place to build from the ground up with a set style that will groom players from the youth ranks to fit into a style of play at all levels (possession based attacking which was the winner of the vote on here about how we should play). We can't just go out and sign the Barca or Ajax players to fit it. I think it's going to be at least 2 seasons before we start to see the full potential of this plan. We need to give them that time unless they start to pull a mojo on us

[Suds]

I disagree. That midfield WAS available but unsuccessful at the quick passing necessary to move the ball on. The options WERE there for the centre of midfield to try and distribute but the defenders lacked the confidence in their midfield to move it. Without taking chances in games we can't move on. I mean, if this is preseason then this is when to take those chances to build on NOT capitulate to long balls down the flank to Martina every time.

We were watching different games then. :D I don't recall anyone being available for Labrocca on a regular basis once he received the ball. A few time Peterson was. That's about it.

[Pachuco]

Said it before, and I'll say it again - I'm fine with the team not being very good this year, as long as it's clear that they are implementing a good system, and trying to work out which players fit long term within that system.

Rebuilding from the ground up in MLS is certainly faster and easier than in most other leagues (simply due to the massive number of footballers throughout the world), but it's still not an instant process (with a couple of rare exceptions). And Mo left Winter a mighty salary cap/roster mess when he left. It's going to take some time to sort that out.

@ OMY - I too would be amazed if the proposed academy didn't happen - it, too, just takes some time to work out. Sounds to me like they are still just shopping around for the best possible deal financially, before they commit somewhere. I think that's reasonable.

- Scott

Hey, your expectations are alot lower then mine. That's for sure :)

In my mind this is our 5th year rebuilding. I personally don't care that we are in another rebuild of the rebuild of the rebuild. I'm not letting MLSE off the hook just because it took them 4 years to realize it was time to start all over. Most people by year 2 were saying we were heading in the wrong direction. Shit, you would think having the worst year in MLS history our first year might have been an indication.

Anyways, at this point I'm sick of paying money to see a terrible team, and I sure as heck am not willing to see another 1st year TFC team just because we are rebuilding.

Philadelphia and Seattle are good, recent examples of teams that weren't half as bad as we were in our first year. We are now into our 5th year in the MLS. If by now we can't be as good as those first year teams then I'll probably lose it this year and sell my seasons.

[Pachuco]

We were watching different games then. :D I don't recall anyone being available for Labrocca on a regular basis once he received the ball. A few time Peterson was. That's about it.

I completely agree with you. Everybody is making way too much in my mind about the defenders passing back to Frei. That's not why we lost or why we weren't attacking. Everytime the midfield got the ball they lost the ball. The guys on the field yesterday have no idea how to keep the ball and had zero imagination to make anything happen. Guys like Makubuya, Martina, Peterson were running with their heads down and simply trying to out run players rather then patiently build up in the midfield. As someone else said, Nana was doing a good job of getting the ball to the midfielders, and so was Morgan when he came on. Our midfield needs some serious help.

What's scary is that with JDG on the field we probably would've been worst. Alot of people talk about how important it is for JDG to have players around him, well I'm sorry to say but I like the team JDG had to play with his first year alot more then the guys he'll have to play with now. And if you really believe that's at the core of JDG's problems then you must believe he's going to look even worst with midfielders around him who all they do is run straight at guys with their heads down.

[Shakes McQueen]

It's a fifth year of "rebuilding" to us, because Mo clearly never had a plan (or at best, abandoned it early and often). I agree that MLSE hold some responsibility for the situation, but the situation still is what it is, and I don't hold Aron Winter accountable for it at all.

I think MLSE made the GM change too late, but the change has finally at least been made. Now I'm willing to give Winter some breathing room to try and implement what we all want - a clear system of competent football, and a roster of players groomed for, and buying into, that system.

Considering the Chex Mix of players and contracts he was handed, I understand if it takes him a season or so to get this mess sorted. He was handed some bad contracts, some unhappy players, and a lot of scrubs, and asked to make it better.

My patience is as strained as yours, but I'm trying not to saddle Winter with that pressure immediately. He's not responsible for the incompetence that came before him, and arguably continues to exist above him.

- Scott

[rocker]

it's definitely not fair to Winter to project leftover MoJo anger on him.

[Pachuco]

It's a fifth year of "rebuilding" to us, because Mo clearly never had a plan (or at best, abandoned it early and often). I agree that MLSE hold some responsibility for the situation, but the situation still is what it is, and I don't hold Aron Winter accountable for it at all.

I think MLSE made the GM change too late, but the change has finally at least been made. Now I'm willing to give Winter some breathing room to try and implement what we all want - a clear system of competent football, and a roster of players groomed for, and buying into, that system.

Considering the Chex Mix of players and contracts he was handed, I understand if it takes him a season or so to get this mess sorted. He was handed some bad contracts, some unhappy players, and a lot of scrubs, and asked to make it better.

My patience is as strained as yours, but I'm trying not to saddle Winter with that pressure immediately. He's not responsible for the incompetence that came before him, and arguably continues to exist above him.

- Scott

I don't hold Aron Winter accountable either. I don't have to bash Winter in order to get my message across to MLSE. I held Preki partly accountable because everything I saw in Preki's system I hated, didn't want to be anywhere near Preki's final product even if it got us into the playoffs this year. Winter is a different story, I buy into his system, if his system takes time then fine, doesn't mean I won't let MLSE hear it in the meantime.

[Oldtimer]

this team is worse than year 1 TFC

You obviously don't remember. Our first 4 games, MoJo's team had trouble getting the ball out of our first 1/3 of the pitch. The other teams just lined up and took pot shots at goal! Later on, we had that looonnnnggg scoreless drought. Too bad Anselmi didn't look at the horrible results and simply fire Mo at the end of that season.

Unfortunately in a way, TFC was a marketing success and ML$E saw MoJo as part of that.

[Fort York Redcoat]

We were watching different games then. :D I don't recall anyone being available for Labrocca on a regular basis once he received the ball. A few time Peterson was. That's about it.

No,no I'm agreeing with you that the second, third pass weren't in good position but we're disagreeing on whether to play it through anyway. I mean, I saw multiple plays that were discarded on a lack of faith from DEFENDERS to the middle much less the middle onwards. The onus is on Labrocca or whoever is in the middle to keep at the quick passes even if the chance of execution is high risk because that's the system we're hammering into this team. We've got one more game before the real deal and i hope it looks less like square pegs and round holes.

[ManUtd4ever]

It's a fifth year of "rebuilding" to us, because Mo clearly never had a plan (or at best, abandoned it early and often). I agree that MLSE hold some responsibility for the situation, but the situation still is what it is, and I don't hold Aron Winter accountable for it at all.

I think MLSE made the GM change too late, but the change has finally at least been made. Now I'm willing to give Winter some breathing room to try and implement what we all want - a clear system of competent football, and a roster of players groomed for, and buying into, that system.

Considering the Chex Mix of players and contracts he was handed, I understand if it takes him a season or so to get this mess sorted. He was handed some bad contracts, some unhappy players, and a lot of scrubs, and asked to make it better.

My patience is as strained as yours, but I'm trying not to saddle Winter with that pressure immediately. He's not responsible for the incompetence that came before him, and arguably continues to exist above him.

- Scott


it's definitely not fair to Winter to project leftover MoJo anger on him.

Exactly. Everyone is frustrated over the ineptitude of this franchise for the first four years but now we are starting with a clean slate and a new approach designed to build sustainable long term success.

If anyone is at the end of their rope and ready to bail on the team at the thought of another season without playoffs, you might as well give up on the team now, because this will definitely be a rebuilding year with growing pains.

[Fort York Redcoat]

this team is worse than year 1 TFC

Let's wait till match 1 shall we?

Myself I didn't see Preseason Year 1...

[Derko]

The game was used as training session. I guess!

[Alixir]

Too bad Anselmi didn't look at the horrible results and simply fire Mo at the end of that season.
Anselmi knows as much about footie as my cat knows about hittin the box when he shits.

[Derko]

Let's wait till match 1 shall we?

Myself I didn't see Preseason Year 1...

I recall pre-season year 1 quite successful and optimistic for the season, and looked like crap for the first 3 games. Correct me if I am wrong on that, it was a long time ago.lol

[Beach_Red]

It's a fifth year of "rebuilding" to us, because Mo clearly never had a plan (or at best, abandoned it early and often). I agree that MLSE hold some responsibility for the situation, but the situation still is what it is, and I don't hold Aron Winter accountable for it at all.




Some responsibility? They hired a guy with no experience to do a job he wasn't qualified for who had no plan and left him in the position for years.

That's a lot more than "some" responsibility. Someone a lot higher up should be accountable. So yeah, let's hope they don't dump it all on Winter and Mariner (at least they'll have to pay them for three years if they do).

[Shakes McQueen]

Some responsibility? They hired a guy with no experience to do a job he wasn't qualified for who had no plan and left him in the position for years.

That's a lot more than "some" responsibility. Someone a lot higher up should be accountable. So yeah, let's hope they don't dump it all on Winter and Mariner (at least they'll have to pay them for three years if they do).

I'm pretty sure "some" doesn't refer to a specific percentage. At any rate, it's immaterial to my point.

Mo is gone. Let's not rehash this tired debate.

- Scott

[BayernTFC]

You can't play it through the midfield unless the other player in the midfield are available; and that is exactly what happened last night.

It was the second pass in the midfield that kept breaking down. The pass from the defense out to Labrooca. Labrocca receives the past, turns to move the ball and there is no one there. So he passes back to the defender, who is now under pressure, who then moves it all the way back to re-start the build up.


I disagree. That midfield WAS available but unsuccessful at the quick passing necessary to move the ball on. The options WERE there for the centre of midfield to try and distribute but the defenders lacked the confidence in their midfield to move it. Without taking chances in games we can't move on. I mean, if this is preseason then this is when to take those chances to build on NOT capitulate to long balls down the flank to Martina every time.


We were watching different games then. :D I don't recall anyone being available for Labrocca on a regular basis once he received the ball. A few time Peterson was. That's about it.


No,no I'm agreeing with you that the second, third pass weren't in good position but we're disagreeing on whether to play it through anyway. I mean, I saw multiple plays that were discarded on a lack of faith from DEFENDERS to the middle much less the middle onwards. The onus is on Labrocca or whoever is in the middle to keep at the quick passes even if the chance of execution is high risk because that's the system we're hammering into this team. We've got one more game before the real deal and i hope it looks less like square pegs and round holes.

I think that both of you were watching the same game, but just highlighting different occurrences. I would just add that a couple of attempted passes by Attakora were blocked and a few forward passes from defenders were sloppy. Labrocca and Peterson had many pass attempts blocked and their decisions/reactions seemed slow most of the time. There is good reason why our defenders would be lacking confidence in the midfielders on the pitch last night.

[BayernTFC]

Mo is gone. Let's not rehash this tired debate.

- Scott
I agree with these sentiments. You can't change the past. Part of the job of new management is to right the ship.

[Suds]

I think that both of you were watching the same game, but just highlighting different occurrences. I would just add that a couple of attempted passes by Attakora were blocked and a few forward passes from defenders were sloppy. Labrocca and Peterson had many pass attempts blocked and their decisions/reactions seemed slow most of the time. There is good reason why our defenders would be lacking confidence in the midfielders on the pitch last night.

I think that is the case.

System and team performance aside, the one thing I was looking for last night was for one or two players to step and and try and take control of the tempo of the game or make some kind of impact. The lack of that worried me more than anything.

I understand DeRo, JDG, will be key in the line-up, but these games are the opportunity for other players to step up and show what they can do without some of the other key players on the field. I didn't see that last night. From a player perspective, this was a lost opportunity for them.

[BayernTFC]

what did eveyone think of dicoy williams?
Everyone seems to be giving this question the Winter treatment. Quality of the broadcast aside, He played tentatively at times. He played better in the first half then the second (paired with Attakora in the 1st half and Yourassowsky in the 2nd half). I expected that, with only a day or two with his teammates, that the young guy might be a little unsure in the beginning. I noticed Williams covering well at the back on one play in the 1st half. He won a couple of jump ball headers (He looks to have good height and leaping ability). He made a series of decent long passes downfield (He was reading the opposing team's defense well and picking out our forward players on those occasions). I'm not sure what his instructions were, but Williams was one of the players over relying on Frei when pressure came. I was a little disappointed that he decided to pass the ball away too quickly at times when he had open space that he could have used (he's on trial and you have to make the most of your opportunities). There were times in the second half where he looked lost and he wasn't providing a good outlet to teammates. It's important not to be overly critical though. There were both positives and negatives to his play last night, and he's the only one with the excuse that he hadn't been in camp for very long.

[Fort York Redcoat]

I would just add that a couple of attempted passes by Attakora were blocked and a few forward passes from defenders were sloppy. Labrocca and Peterson had many pass attempts blocked and their decisions/reactions seemed slow most of the time. There is good reason why our defenders would be lacking confidence in the midfielders on the pitch last night.



I think that is the case.

System and team performance aside, the one thing I was looking for last night was for one or two players to step and and try and take control of the tempo of the game or make some kind of impact. The lack of that worried me more than anything.

I understand DeRo, JDG, will be key in the line-up, but these games are the opportunity for other players to step up and show what they can do without some of the other key players on the field. I didn't see that last night. From a player perspective, this was a lost opportunity for them.


Yeah the "veterans" Nana, Peterson, Labrocca were not exactly grabbing the the game by the horns were they.

Just to mention it for the sake of it, Martina did try at times late on to give a spark but it unfortunately couldn't end with an executed ball in or strong strike.

Not wrist-slitting here just doing the post-mortem on a loss BTW.

[reggie]

judging from winter's post game comments,i couldnt tell if he liked him(decoy)or not.
i think not...i guess we will see if he is still in camp today.

[Alixir]

Just to mention it for the sake of it, Martina did try at times late on to give a spark but it unfortunately couldn't end with an executed ball in or strong strike.

Martina has some legs, but what good are legs when he has no support. Many times last night he beat the defender only to have to hold up to wait for the TFC players to get into the box and by the time that happened half of the Battery team had caught up. We need a good target man that can match Martina's speed and be there in the box ready for that cross first time.

[Super]

Meh. To me it was Total Shit Football. I expected better 10 days before Vancouver.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

judging from winter's post game comments,i couldnt tell if he liked him(decoy)or not.
i think not...i guess we will see if he is still in camp today.

Im curious about this too. I thought he was decent enough in the first half, enough to get a second look anyways.


Martina has some legs, but what good are legs when he has no support. Many times last night he beat the defender only to have to hold up to wait for the TFC players to get into the box and by the time that happened half of the Battery team had caught up. We need a good target man that can match Martina's speed and be there in the box ready for that cross first time.

I think we will see Martina excell once hes got back up going forward and back, unfortuantely it looked like he was carrying the load a la DeRo at times. I look forward to seeing how he, Santos, DeRo and JDG play together (also the new attacking mid i guess)

[Pigfynn]

I want to see more of Plata. I'm very much hoping he can be our version of Aaron Lennon.

Plays like him a bit.

[reggie]

martina looked like he had more room in turkey,it seems like every time he had the ball he had 3 guys on him.i think with dero in the lineup it will open it up for him.
sidenote...peterson is so f-ing slow.

[BayernTFC]

System and team performance aside, the one thing I was looking for last night was for one or two players to step and and try and take control of the tempo of the game or make some kind of impact. The lack of that worried me more than anything.
I was not one of the ones looking for a win either. I thought when Ornoch came into the match that he was trying to provide a spark. What worries me most is that I see so much of the same things from TFC that drove me nuts last year. It makes it incredibly difficult to make any type of assessments at all. I'm still looking for signs of improvement. Hopefully the schizophrenia ends with the pre-season.


I understand DeRo, JDG, will be key in the line-up, but these games are the opportunity for other players to step up and show what they can do without some of the other key players on the field. I didn't see that last night. From a player perspective, this was a lost opportunity for them.
Certainly opportunities are being wasted. I've already seen too much from some players, and entirely too little from others...

[mastermixer]

Sometimes all it takes is one or two bad players on the field to ruin the flow for the whole team. One of the consistent guys on the field during camp has been Peterson. Just my two cents.

[BayernTFC]

Martina has some legs, but what good are legs when he has no support. Many times last night he beat the defender only to have to hold up to wait for the TFC players to get into the box and by the time that happened half of the Battery team had caught up. We need a good target man that can match Martina's speed and be there in the box ready for that cross first time.
I noticed a couple of times where Martina became surrounded and held the ball up well, only no TFC teammate read the situation and offered him an option. It's not only about providing an outlet in front of a player. In the first half, Martina had the ball just outside the box and was met by three Charleston players. He kept the ball for quite some time before being overrun. There was tons of space behind him in the corner and along the wing and no one moved into those positions to help.

[TFCDP]

I want to see more of Plata. I'm very much hoping he can be our version of Aaron Lennon.

Plays like him a bit.


I'm also excited about this guy.... Going to go out on a limb and say he's going to get about 8 goals this year.

[Pachuco]

I'm also excited about this guy.... Going to go out on a limb and say he's going to get about 8 goals this year.

Ammm...at this point I don't even know if the dude will be signed. Not because of my personal opinion. Just saying, he's not even on the team at this point.

[reggie]

winter mentioned in yesterdays post game that he is looking for a left winger and striker.so plata may not be a givin.
is it just me.i dont think winter has a clue what the press is asking him.

[yid_army_1882]

how the fuck do tfc lose to a team that aren't even professionals.

thats embarrassing, it may be a friendly but to lose to a bunch of guys that play football part time is a bit of a joke.

[reggie]

judging from winter's post game comments,i couldnt tell if he liked him(decoy)or not.
i think not...i guess we will see if he is still in camp today.
according to gareth...he is training today.
dero and jdg in full training today but bouch is in only light traning.
how cool is that to actually have someone covering our team.

[jloome]

Plata's size is more of an issue in this system than others because he has to come inside more. He was shoved off the ball several times in the first game with very little effort, so he really has to work his ability to create to be effective.

Meh, he's a loan anyway. Can't hurt to keep him for the year with his technique.

[BayernTFC]

is it just me.i dont think winter has a clue what the press is asking him.
It's not just you. Winter seems to be struggling with the comprehension of some words and/or speed of the conversation. It's also possible that he understands the questions, but lacks the vocabulary to answer them properly. I find that he is soft spoken and mumbles/slurs his words also.

[Kyle_121]

ffs people, it's pre-season, we are rebuilding from scratch and we were playing a second string team.

Yes it could be a tough season, but weren't we all screaming for change and some kind of longer-term plan last season?

Let's keep this in perspective please.

How's this for perspective.

They fielded a second string team against a 2nd division USL club and got their asses handed to them.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

did they really get their asses handed to them?
I seem to remember the score being 2-1 and us dominating possesion in the first half. We didnt do anything with it but we still had it.

[smtavare]

I read a lot of posts and many say not to worry, it's only pre-season and our regulars are not playing. Fact is that at least 5 of these trialists and recently signed players will be regulars on our team and they couldn't even match the skill or performance of a mickey mouse charleston squad!
:picard:

[Pigfynn]

I would say that it was mid- high 60's for us to their mid to low 30's possession wise. TFC was keeping the ball well, just doing nothing with it.

[Lizzy]

Sean Kay said on The Footy Show that there's 2 TFC players holding out. Cann and _________? Anybody know?

[Yohan]

it's easy to keep possession when you're passing back and forth between GK and defenders

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Sean Kay said on The Footy Show that there's 2 TFC players holding out. Cann and _________? Anybody know?

What was the context?
DeRo?
Attakora? (signing a new contract)

[Lizzy]

What was the context?
DeRo?
Attakora? (signing a new contract)

He said we only have 14 players signed (this was Wednesday) and 2 were injured and 2 were holding out. He said it twice on the podcast. DeRo and Nana have been there all along haven't they?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

yeah they have. curious.
maybe one of the trialists?

[ManUtd4ever]

Holding out would suggest the player is already under contract, so it's not one of the trialists. Who was on last year's squad, hasn't played recently, and isn't listed as injured?

[mastermixer]

Holding out would suggest the player is already under contract, so it's not one of the trialists. Who was on last year's squad, hasn't played recently, and isn't listed as injured?

Santos?

[ManUtd4ever]

Here is the active roster from TFC's website, not including the recent signings. Who could the other holdout be?

Nana Attakora (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/nana-attakora)
Adrian Cann (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/adrian-cann)
Julian de Guzman (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/julian-de-guzman)
Dwayne De Rosario (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/dwayne-de-rosario)
Stefan Frei (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/stefan-frei)
Dan Gargan (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/dan-gargan)
Ty Harden (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/ty-harden)
Doneil Henry (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/doneil-henry)
Milos Kocic (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/milos-kocic)
Nick LaBrocca (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/nick-labrocca)
Nicholas Lindsay (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/nicholas-lindsay)
Jacob Peterson (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/jacob-peterson)
Maicon Santos (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/maicon-santos)
Nathan Sturgis (http://www.torontofc.ca/player/nathan-sturgis)

[ManUtd4ever]

Santos?

He has played in Charleston though hasn't he?

[Brooker]

ffs people, it's pre-season, we are rebuilding from scratch and we were playing a second string team.

Yes it could be a tough season, but weren't we all screaming for change and some kind of longer-term plan last season?

Let's keep this in perspective please.

That's not how it works with a lot of people around here. :D

[Oldtimer]

it's easy to keep possession when you're passing back and forth between GK and defenders

That wasn't all that they were doing. The strikers were also passing back to the midfielders, and the midfielders to the defenders.

[ManUtd4ever]

I guess it could be Santos, Harden, or Gargan. Harden and Gargan made approximately 45K last year so it's possible. I'm not sure about the salary of Santos. Whoever it is, if he's holding out, he hasn't left camp or it would have been reported by now...

[Wooster_TFC]

Who's injured?

Lindsay and JDG?

If that's the case, Henry's been rather absent from the team...

[prizby]

how the fuck do tfc lose to a team that aren't even professionals.

thats embarrassing, it may be a friendly but to lose to a bunch of guys that play football part time is a bit of a joke.

umm wrexham defeated returning champs arsenal in 92 FA Cup?

1971 FA Cup Leeds United lost to 4th division Colchester

1989 saw Sutton United beat coventry who had won the fa cup in 87

didn't Tottenham lose 2-0 to some amateur Hong Kong team in the 2009 pre-season?

[TFCRegina]

He said we only have 14 players signed (this was Wednesday) and 2 were injured and 2 were holding out. He said it twice on the podcast. DeRo and Nana have been there all along haven't they?

De Ro isn't holding out according to TFC, he has a knock.

The 2 injured would be Henry and JDG.

Or Lindsey and De Ro...

Or Lindsey, Henry, JDG and De Ro. Which makes four.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

im sure they are only counting those that are there (IE not Lindsay.)
even then the numbers seem a bit wrong...

[Darlofletch]

De Ro isn't holding out according to TFC, he has a knock.

The 2 injured would be Henry and JDG.

Or Lindsey and De Ro...

Or Lindsey, Henry, JDG and De Ro. Which makes four.

de ro's "knock" could be a pr cover, as could henry's injury. de guzman and lindsay are definitely injured, but if lindsay's out for the season, is he even really being included?

everyone else has been playing, except kocic, can't imagine it's him though.

ah, the intrigue.

[ManUtd4ever]

I wonder if there are any players under contract holding out on other MLS clubs. That's not a dig at TFC, I'm genuinely curious because this is getting ridiculous.

[seankeay]

Sean Kay said on The Footy Show that there's 2 TFC players holding out. Cann and _________? Anybody know?

Actually said with two potential hold outs...

Cann & Dero who said a few months ago that he was not going to play if he didn't have a new contract.

[ManUtd4ever]

Actually said with two potential hold outs...

Cann & Dero who said a few months ago that he was not going to play if he didn't have a new contract.

Ah, mystery solved. Hopefully, DeRo will not hold out...

[Lizzy]

Actually said with two potential hold outs...

Cann & Dero who said a few months ago that he was not going to play if he didn't have a new contract.


Cheers. Thanks Sean - I thought I was missing someone.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

there ya have it.
Not terribly surprised.

[mastermixer]

Thank god someone put water on this flame before it got out of hand again.

[flamehawk]

umm wrexham defeated returning champs arsenal in 92 FA Cup?

1971 FA Cup Leeds United lost to 4th division Colchester

1989 saw Sutton United beat coventry who had won the fa cup in 87

didn't Tottenham lose 2-0 to some amateur Hong Kong team in the 2009 pre-season?

Uhhh.. don't call one of the teams I support an amateur team lol.

South China has been around since 1904 .. and while it's hardly a top team in Asia, let alone internationally, it's not that small. We currently have Kezman and Butt on the books.

[Derko]

how the fuck do tfc lose to a team that aren't even professionals.

thats embarrassing, it may be a friendly but to lose to a bunch of guys that play football part time is a bit of a joke.

I guess you didn't see TFC lose to the Battery in the previous tournaments did you.

[ExiledRed]

WE should try and show up to this tournament at least one year, and there's no excuse for just how dire we are, year after year but....

People calling Charleston 'Mickey Mouse' and 'unprofessional' should keep in mind that not only are Charleston an established USL team with their own history, its also their stadium and the tournament actually means more to them than to any of the competition teams.

The battery are as professional an outfit as the impact and the whitecaps have been in the NCC, and dont deserve to be dismissed so indignantly, especially by TFC supporters.

[prizby]

Uhhh.. don't call one of the teams I support an amateur team lol.

South China has been around since 1904 .. and while it's hardly a top team in Asia, let alone internationally, it's not that small. We currently have Kezman and Butt on the books.

Point is:
South China AA beating Tottenham in a friendly is a much bigger upset than Charlston beating Toronto FC and should put things into perspective for this yid army fellow

[dow117]

The (Aron )"Winter of my discontent "better not turn out to be summer as well

[flamehawk]

Point is:
South China AA beating Tottenham in a friendly is a much bigger upset than Charlston beating Toronto FC and should put things into perspective for this yid army fellow

True.

And I remember Wolves losing 5 or 6 nil against Morecambe during our last stint in the Premiership.. can't really get worse than that.