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bgnewf
03-05-2011, 11:28 PM
A Year Too Late

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/03/a-year-too-late/

TFC put off the process of correcting the errors of the Mo Johnston era by a full year by not getting rid of him in 2009 when they should have. Why this might have been a bigger error than many of us already think.

TFCwestcan
03-06-2011, 09:52 AM
I totally agree with you on this, although judging from the some of the comments (on this forum) some of the fans correctly see this as a tough rebuilding year and that patience will be required.

Whoop
03-06-2011, 10:06 AM
I agree Tim.

A lot of the problems that Winter and Mariner are dealing with today is the fact that TFC gave Mo that extension in the summer of 2009 and/or did not fire Mo after losing to NYRB.

Though the club should have put someone in place by November/December instead of January.

Brooker
03-06-2011, 10:29 AM
are we slitting our wrists already?

Suds
03-06-2011, 10:38 AM
Good piece, Tim.

Agree that Mo's legacy and other bad decision that were made in the interim are going to hang over this team like dark cloud for another year at the minimum.

Beyond the horrid legacy Mo left behind, at what point does MLSE look at the people who making/made the decisions that still haunt the club? Will they ever?

brad
03-06-2011, 10:40 AM
I totally agree with you on this, although judging from the some of the comments (on this forum) some of the fans correctly see this as a tough rebuilding year and the patience will be required.

While this is true, the people on this forum and in the supporters groups in general are the vast minority at BMO.

I don't think most are going to put up with an inept losing team for long. I agree with the blog post, and have been saying more or less the same for a while. They have a very short period to get results before people will stop coming

Suds
03-06-2011, 10:41 AM
are we slitting our wrists already?

No. I think the gist of the piece is that the decision to can Mo and start over should have happened a year ago. The fact it did not means we should be prepared for another tough year; which I am. We should be in our second year of rebuilding this club - not the first.

This may not be an issue for the hard-core footy & TFC fans. What Tim wonders is how this may affect the more casual fan and the new fans they are trying to bring to the team.

ExiledRed
03-06-2011, 11:01 AM
While this is true, the people on this forum and in the supporters groups in general are the vast minority at BMO.

I don't think most are going to put up with an inept losing team for long. I agree with the blog post, and have been saying more or less the same for a while. They have a very short period to get results before people will stop coming

Also, the supporters groups harbour plenty of people who've had enough too, and dont buy the 'always rebuilding' spin.

The truth is, that expansion teams have a constant advantage over us because they are just 'building'

We are persistently, and always during the season, rebuilding something that was never built in the first place.

What we've seen so far under the new coach has been 'dismantling' not rebuilding, and I'm absolutely tired of having to watch 'rebuilding' get done during the season, while the off-season produces nothing.

Whoop
03-06-2011, 11:26 AM
But the new management has to dismantle some parts of the building in order to rebuild.

Beach_Red
03-06-2011, 11:44 AM
No, the problems started as soon as they were awarded the franchise and went with First Wave instead of Soccer Solutions - maybe that was the "fiscally responsible" choice and alowed them to start making profits right away. Who knows, it may have even been the right choice to build a solid business foundation, it just didn't work out on the field. But that wasn't their top priority in the beginning.

Blowing Bubbles
03-06-2011, 11:59 AM
I agree with your assessment.

And it's not just a year too late firing Mo. It's also that we were 3 months too late on our new hire.

2 weeks from the season and the roster is in flux, we don't know who is broadcasting the non-TSN games, Cann has walked out, DeRo hasn't been fully resolved, etc, etc.

SAME AS IT EVER WAS

Damien
03-06-2011, 12:06 PM
The problem is we had Mo Johnston for so long that nobody wants to put up with constant rebuilding.

It's kind of a bad situation Winter & Mariner have walked into. I'm writing this off as a buffer year but I know most people wont, MLSE will get pissed quick and fire Winter if there's no results this year, unfortunetly.

backbeat
03-06-2011, 12:22 PM
The problem is we had Mo Johnston for so long that nobody wants to put up with constant rebuilding.

It's kind of a bad situation Winter & Mariner have walked into. I'm writing this off as a buffer year but I know most people wont, MLSE will get pissed quick and fire Winter if there's no results this year, unfortunetly.

There is no way that MLSE will fire Winter for at least 2 years. if they did they might as well close shop as TFC already has a bad reputation of turn-over. MLSE knows full well that this will take some time and Winter is their guy....I also think it will take time and have no problem with our results to date - it's only been a few months, i mean really.....

brad
03-06-2011, 12:26 PM
On Winter, it will be a business decision not a football one. If we are out of the playoffs at renewal time and the renewals are poor, and they they think they can drive renewals up by making him a scapegoat - he'll be gone.

Personally, I think he'll walk before the season is up.

ManUtd4ever
03-06-2011, 12:31 PM
Wow, cynicism knows no bounds.

There is no chance in hell that MLSE will use Winter as a scapegoat this season, regardless of the results. I also doubt that Winter would walk after only one season knowing well in advance that this is a long term project.

ExiledRed
03-06-2011, 12:32 PM
it's only been a few months, i mean really.....

Its been a few months for Winter,

Its been getting on five years for MLSE and us.

Toronto's patience has run out, and any more losing streaks, goal droughts, heartless performances and locker room politics being played out on the field, is going to impact this clubs support base in a negative way that MLSE couldnt replicate even by tripling the price.

backbeat
03-06-2011, 12:34 PM
On Winter, it will be a business decision not a football one. If we are out of the playoffs at renewal time and the renewals are poor, and they they think they can drive renewals up by making him a scapegoat - he'll be gone.

Personally, I think he'll walk before the season is up.

yes but Winter is building something far bigger than simply the immediate on-field product. he is putting in place an academy system similar to Ajax that from a business perspective will make MLSE lot's of money in player sales as well as long term success down the road on the pitch.

they will not let him go anytime soon i believe and i think Winter is in it for at least the 3 year term.

brad
03-06-2011, 12:34 PM
Also, the supporters groups harbour plenty of people who've had enough too, and dont buy the 'always rebuilding' spin.

This, plus the price gouging plus being treated like a second class citizen in BMO for trying to support my team outside of a supporters sections (as opposed to sitting on my ass and acting like I'm in the ACC) have me at the end of my rope. Lot's of folks I know feel the same.

Nuvinho
03-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Personally, I think he'll walk before the season is up.

I hate to say it, but I gotta agree with you. The shitstorm he had to put up with is probably less stress he had when he was at Ajax.

Beach_Red
03-06-2011, 12:46 PM
:flare:
Its been a few months for Winter,

Its been getting on five years for MLSE and us.

Toronto's patience has run out, and any more losing streaks, goal droughts, heartless performances and locker room politics being played out on the field, is going to impact this clubs support base in a negative way that MLSE couldnt replicate even by tripling the price.

Ha, you're right. But don't give them any ideas ;).

Let's face it, if we had listened to what MLSE said and paid more attention we wouldn't be running out of patience. They were honest from the beginning that they weren't going to be competitive for years (five they said and they meant it) while they built up cash reserves. Now they're moving to the next stage.

Brooker
03-06-2011, 01:00 PM
On Winter, it will be a business decision not a football one. If we are out of the playoffs at renewal time and the renewals are poor, and they they think they can drive renewals up by making him a scapegoat - he'll be gone.

I think there's a better chance of us winning the treble than Winter being fired after one season. Honestly, yes some people will be done with TFC if we miss the playoffs again with another bad season.. but I think even more would wash their hands of this club if we fired Winter. It would just make it worse.

ManUtd4ever
03-06-2011, 01:02 PM
I hate to say it, but I gotta agree with you. The shitstorm he had to put up with is probably less stress he had when he was at Ajax.

Yes, I'm sure Aron Winter uprooted his family overseas, committed to being the architect of a franchise that's still in it's infancy stages, just so that he could walk in year one of a 3 year contract because of a couple of players that are disgruntled with their contracts. :rolleyes:

Aron Winter knew exactly what kind of situation he was walking into in Toronto; the passionate fan base, the reputation of the front office, the years of futility, the DeRo contract, etc.

The only unforeseen circumstance that has arisen thus far is the situation regarding Adrian Cann. I will give Winter the benefit of the doubt and assume that a second rate defender walking out on the team in the midst of a contract won't lead to a nervous breakdown on his part.

Nuvinho
03-06-2011, 01:07 PM
^ more about the travelling, MLS rules and regulations, etc. that he would get sick of.

spark
03-06-2011, 01:07 PM
Hindsight is 20/20 - when this was posted (http://www.rednationonline.ca/if_the_reds_lose_we_can_win_aug_26_09_column.shtml ) back in 2009 it was crucified save for a few here and there (never mind the final line :P)

But that certainly would have been the year to can him and this year would have looked much more promising but there's nothing we can do about it now.

ManUtd4ever
03-06-2011, 01:10 PM
^ more about the travelling, MLS rules and regulations, etc. that he would get sick of.

I'm sure he was aware of the intricacies of MLS compared to Europe before he made such a drastic career decision.

Suds
03-06-2011, 01:21 PM
I'm sure he was aware of the intricacies of MLS compared to Europe before he made such a drastic career decision.

He was. He even said he spoke at length with Ruud Gullit and Klinnsman about it. This is also the reason Mariner was brought on board.

jloome
03-06-2011, 01:36 PM
My sole concern at this point is the lack of quality coming in for trials. We have a DPP who is extremely knowledgeable and connected. But so far, Martina is the only real find, as far as I can tell, maybe Zavarise as well.

MLS should pop the money to prop up this rebuilding year somewhat with a second and third DP. That kind of moolah will open up possibilities more quickly than trial-and-error.

My suspicion, though, is that because we're already near the international limit, they've decided this is a rebuilding year, and that until we can a) integrate more home grown product effectivley and b) pull in some decent players from around the league via draft bait/contracts ending, there won't be much movement.

Can anyone explain to me what our lineup was yesterday? Not sure who the wingbacks were.

BayernTFC
03-06-2011, 01:37 PM
No, the problems started as soon as they were awarded the franchise and went with First Wave instead of Soccer Solutions - maybe that was the "fiscally responsible" choice and alowed them to start making profits right away. Who knows, it may have even been the right choice to build a solid business foundation, it just didn't work out on the field. But that wasn't their top priority in the beginning.
I agree that TFC's problems stem from decisions made in the beginning. I'm not able to judge whether one agency chosen over another has anything to do with it though. Toronto FC appeared to be a hastily put together enterprise with entirely inadequate preparation on the football operations side. Without a clear vision or direction for the team, the selection of Mo Johnston to lead the building of a franchise from scratch exacerbated the problem. Mo gets most of the credit, but his mismanagement of the team is only a fraction of the overall problem and shouldn't be used as another built in excuse for TFC. The team has been oversold right from the get go, much like MLS has been, and it's a miracle that paying customers continued coming and didn't revolt sooner with such a consistently underwhelming product. I can't begin to talk about how wrong it is from a business standpoint to promise a particular product to customers only after they purchase an otherwise unsellable alternative or even unrelated product. MLSE bred the conditions for animosity between their ownership and TFC's fans. The souring of the relationship was inevitable. When you treat the fans in the same demeaning way as this league treats players, don't be surprised when support fades and doesn't return.

Beach_Red
03-06-2011, 01:48 PM
^ Support will return. If baseball can survive cancelling the World Series and every other sport in NA can survive lock-outs and lost seasons and championships the owners know that the fans will come back.

MLSE knew they could run the team on the cheap for the first few years - if the league continues to grow so will the value of TFC.

UltraSuperMegaMo
03-06-2011, 01:49 PM
I agree that Mo should have went ages ago, but TFC always looks dire in the preseason and pulls it together, at least somewhat, by the first home game. I think they'll be okay, just a gut feeling.

brad
03-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Wow, cynicism knows no bounds.

There is no chance in hell that MLSE will use Winter as a scapegoat this season, regardless of the results. I also doubt that Winter would walk after only one season knowing well in advance that this is a long term project.

I've given this team the benefit of the doubt for 4 years despite the fact they have done nothing to earn it. Blind faith only goes so far, time to start proving that its not all talk.

brad
03-06-2011, 01:52 PM
I'm sure he was aware of the intricacies of MLS compared to Europe before he made such a drastic career decision.

Like Carver did?

ManUtd4ever
03-06-2011, 02:04 PM
I've given this team the benefit of the doubt for 4 years despite the fact they have done nothing to earn it. Blind faith only goes so far, time to start proving that its not all talk.

To each his own. Only you know your personal limits in terms of supporting this club.

I'm willing to give Winter at least a couple of years before I crucify him.

As for TFC, I'll always be a STH and a strong supporter because for better or worse, it's a passion, and one day this club will be a winner.

ManUtd4ever
03-06-2011, 02:08 PM
Like Carver did?

I don't think Carver's tenure has any relevance. Besides, Winter has a far more critical, all encompassing role with TFC so the situations aren't necessarily analagous.

BayernTFC
03-06-2011, 02:09 PM
^ Support will return. If baseball can survive cancelling the World Series and every other sport in NA can survive lock-outs and lost seasons and championships the owners know that the fans will come back.

MLSE knew they could run the team on the cheap for the first few years - if the league continues to grow so will the value of TFC.
Survival and the return of previous levels of support are two different things. Baseball in Canada is on the decline. The support that the Jays once enjoyed has long since evaporated. Would the Jays still be here without Rogers' big pockets, cable business and television stations in need of content? I know people who haven't watched NHL hockey since the most recent lockout transpired and I only watch a handful of Leafs games on TV each season now. At what point do people retire the argument about the infancy of the league and growth potential? The league is approaching 20 years old. How about just showing some results. There are nearly 400 million people in the US and Canada. How many should be interested in MLS soccer? I'd settle for TFC just playing like a team in the majority of their games at this point.

BayernTFC
03-06-2011, 02:27 PM
Its been a few months for Winter,

Its been getting on five years for MLSE and us.

Toronto's patience has run out, and any more losing streaks, goal droughts, heartless performances and locker room politics being played out on the field, is going to impact this clubs support base in a negative way that MLSE couldnt replicate even by tripling the price.
It's comments like these that should keep TFC's owners awake at night but, alas, any mistakes can be easily recuperated by ongoing operations in another arena (pun intended). This is why it's important to lay a proper foundation in the beginning. Can TFC really afford to change managers again so quickly? TFC already has a hard enough time attracting players. Who would want to go to an organization with what appears to be institutional turmoil and constant upheaval? It sounds like fans have had enough, so could you blame any player for wanting to avoid such a mess?

Roogsy
03-06-2011, 02:50 PM
Its been a few months for Winter,

Its been getting on five years for MLSE and us.

Toronto's patience has run out, and any more losing streaks, goal droughts, heartless performances and locker room politics being played out on the field, is going to impact this clubs support base in a negative way that MLSE couldnt replicate even by tripling the price.


Agree 100%. Its not a reflection on the new management but MLSE have had 5 years to put something other than crap on the field. It may fertilize the grass but it stinks up everything else.

J .
03-06-2011, 03:03 PM
Maybe its just me, but I thought we were two wingers away from being a playoff team last year. But yeah, lets tear it all down again.

I think it is an indictment of the new management that in three months they haven't brought in anybody. Four years watching teams that were worse than us get better quick, LA, NY, RSL, Dallas, Colorado just to name a few off the top off my head. I dont believe in rebuilding in MLS. I believe in win now.

Believing otherwise just lets MLSE feed us more crap at higher prices. Win. Win now.

ensco
03-06-2011, 04:40 PM
It's the sense that Winter or Mariner are helpless, that burns.

MLSE, Cochrane, the major players Mo brought in, the scouting department Mo put in, they are all still there (except maybe Barrett).

It's a capped league....we expect Winter/Mariner to do what exactly? They can only play the hand they've been dealt.

ManUtd4ever
03-06-2011, 05:16 PM
The new management regime hasn't made any false promises in terms of a building a contender overnight. The benefits of the infrastructure being put in place at this time will pay dividends in years to come.

If people are expecting immediate results this season they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I do believe that with the expanded playoff format, the post season might be a realistic goal this season, but the ultimate goal is to build a perennial championship contender, which will take years of player development through the Academy.

jloome
03-06-2011, 05:55 PM
It's the sense that Winter or Mariner are helpless, that burns.

MLSE, Cochrane, the major players Mo brought in, the scouting department Mo put in, they are all still there (except maybe Barrett).

It's a capped league....we expect Winter/Mariner to do what exactly? They can only play the hand they've been dealt.

Yeah, I think we're going to see a lot of the kids this year. They'll want to shed and start over, and the only way to do that in a capped league with quotas is to play out some deals and trade some others.

We'll probably see more activity in the last half of their first season than the first.

I imagine Klinsmann has warned them this would be problematic. But it's a "make the best of a bad" situation until they can turn over parts of the roster, and that includes some of the "core" of the team.

brad
03-06-2011, 06:43 PM
I don't expect immediate results, but I expect a step in the right direction. I don't see that. I see a team that is less than two weeks from the start of the season with 12 players on the roster. I see the same old story of trying to find players late in the pre-season evaluating a bunch of mediocre trialists. I see another year of not using pre-season games to get the first team match fit and work on a new system like every other team on the planet tends to do.

According to folks on that are in Charleston (see the TFC vs Chicago thread) it was a total mess live, with players calling each other out. DeRo is threatening to sit, Cann has walked out. This is a bloody disaster and it's all on MLSE.

I see Vancouver up 2-0 on Seattle as I type this and am starting worry about getting absolutely humiliated by them on their MLS debut.

I don't buy the whole we have to build for the future and suck now. They should both be getting done at the same time.

EDIT: Just read on the U-Sector board - we currently have 9 healthy outfield players signed...

Suds
03-06-2011, 07:01 PM
I don't expect immediate results, but I expect a step in the right direction. I don't see that. I see a team that is less than two weeks from the start of the season with 12 players on the roster. I see the same old story of trying to find players late in the pre-season evaluating a bunch of mediocre trialists. I see another year of not using pre-season games to get the first team match fit and work on a new system like every other team on the planet tends to do.

According to folks on that are in Charleston (see the TFC vs Chicago thread) it was a total mess live, with players calling each other out. DeRo is threatening to sit, Cann has walked out. This is a bloody disaster and it's all on MLSE.

I see Vancouver up 2-0 on Seattle as I type this and am starting worry about getting absolutely humiliated by them on their MLS debut.

I don't buy the whole we have to build for the future and suck now. They should both be getting done at the same time.

EDIT: Just read on the U-Sector board - we currently have 9 healthy outfield players signed...


I'm not disagreeing with your point that things look pretty dire right now. And I'm in no way a MLSE apologist, but you do realize Vancouver has been around for a few decades and over 10 years under the current ownership. Their academy has been around longer than TFC. They should be better than us. Just because they were not in the MLS does not mean they have not been building a good club.

In fact, it might do TFC some good to have a look out west.

ensco
03-06-2011, 07:59 PM
No reason to worry. See this story today. Senior management is totally focused on fixing TFC.
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/hockey/2011/03/06/17515926.html

spark
03-06-2011, 08:03 PM
I'm not disagreeing with your point that things look pretty dire right now. And I'm in no way a MLSE apologist, but you do realize Vancouver has been around for a few decades and over 10 years under the current ownership. Their academy has been around longer than TFC. They should be better than us. Just because they were not in the MLS does not mean they have not been building a good club.

In fact, it might do TFC some good to have a look out west.

Maybe not an MLSE apologist, but an apologist none the less. Those are EXCUSES. By your logic then Vancouver should be better than RSL and San Jose?

OurGame
03-06-2011, 08:25 PM
Maybe not an MLSE apologist, but an apologist none the less. Those are EXCUSES. By your logic then Vancouver should be better than RSL and San Jose?

The only looking tfc /mlser's will be doing is looking up in the standings to find Vancouver..
I actually liked Mo but rainman could have figured out he knew nothing about running a club ..
4 years hehe haha

J .
03-06-2011, 08:48 PM
The new management regime hasn't made any false promises in terms of a building a contender overnight. The benefits of the infrastructure being put in place at this time will pay dividends in years to come.

If people are expecting immediate results this season they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I do believe that with the expanded playoff format, the post season might be a realistic goal this season, but the ultimate goal is to build a perennial championship contender, which will take years of player development through the Academy.

So we need to wait for kids like Aleman to be 22?

In a league that is capped you can be competitive quickly. MLSE has twice now gone a route that promises success in 2-3 years down the road.

Why?

spark
03-06-2011, 08:52 PM
I do believe that with the expanded playoff format, the post season might be a realistic goal this season, but the ultimate goal is to build a perennial championship contender, which will take years of player development through the Academy.

Like five maybe?

Suds
03-06-2011, 09:00 PM
Maybe not an MLSE apologist, but an apologist none the less. Those are EXCUSES. By your logic then Vancouver should be better than RSL and San Jose?

Who says they are not? By what standard?

Flipityflu
03-06-2011, 09:09 PM
i'm a peferct example of the 'a year too late' since i am no longer a season ticket holder as of this year. i think there is going to be alot of shit football this season.

Suds
03-06-2011, 09:13 PM
i'm a peferct example of the 'a year too late' since i am no longer a season ticket holder as of this year. i think there is going to be alot of shit football this season.

Based on what we have seen so far I can't disagree with that. Hence the whole point of Tim's piece. Mo should have been gone a year ago and last year should have been the re-start.

Darlofletch
03-06-2011, 09:28 PM
Based on what we have seen so far I can't disagree with that. Hence the whole point of Tim's piece. Mo should have been gone a year ago and last year should have been the re-start.

last year was a restart, even with mo still around. Unfortunately preki pissed too many people off so he got canned at the first sign of trouble, and never got the chance to continue with his restart, so now we restart again. Hopefully Winter's better at the political and friend making side of things so he gets given enough time, even when we hit a rough patch.

AL-MO
03-06-2011, 10:07 PM
I was there in New Joisey in 2009 and fuck yeah his firing was a year late.

Whoop
03-06-2011, 10:15 PM
Like Winter said in the Cann article today, it takes time to change mentality. The entire system has to be re-done.

I like the fact that TFC has done a decent job with their academy and that the new guys are promoting that. The academy, at the end of the day, is the future.

Do I want the team to win? Of course.

But to do things properly it takes time. I rather be a consistent winner than a flash in the pan.

Roogsy
03-06-2011, 10:24 PM
I was there in New Joisey in 2009 and fuck yeah his firing was a year late.


I think forever in my brain will be the question mark of why Mo was not fired after that debacle in New Jersey. It was an embarrassment on the club. It was a 10 foot high sign in neon lights that he needed to be fired and yet he wasn't, only the poor interim coach was let go even though he inherited a team in shambles. It was the ultimate case of this club's executives burying their heads in the sand and their incompetence in not firing Mo was put on exhibition for all to see the following year when this team completely fell apart.

Hiring Mo was not a mistake in and of itself. Hiring people is always tricky. Not firing him in time is what shows their complete stupidity. The team's current state rests completely on Tom Anselmi's shoulders and the heat he took in the offseason was completely merited.

Whoop
03-06-2011, 10:50 PM
I still don't know why the FO gave him an extension that summer instead of waiting until the end of the season.

The perils of renegotiating before the term is up.

Roogsy
03-06-2011, 10:54 PM
Just a little tidbit about Mo. There was talk about the extension and even I got up in arms about it...but a little birdy told me that Mo did in fact not get an extension and that it may have actually been offered and then retracted. Not sure about the details.

Whoop
03-06-2011, 11:00 PM
Then why was he back?!?!

I thought he was signed for 3 years? 2010 was his 4th year.

Oh well, time to move on.

menefreghista
03-06-2011, 11:03 PM
I still don't know why the FO gave him an extension that summer instead of waiting until the end of the season.

The perils of renegotiating before the term is up.

The rumours of the extension started to surface after the euphoria of crushing the Impact in Montreal to win the Voyageurs Cup.

Anselmi being the moron that he is probably fed off that.

Whoop
03-06-2011, 11:16 PM
As good as it was to win the Voyageurs Cup in '09, it's almost like that win has caused a lot of problems down the stretch.

Pookie
03-07-2011, 08:11 AM
I enjoyed the read but I wouldn't worry so much about support dropping off as a result of a losing season. What are we, a few weeks into the Winter era? Collectively, we've gone from euphoria over the decision to adopt a version of "Total Football", to optimism at the showing in Turkey, to dropping a few exhibition games in North America, to wondering if Winter will be here in a year.

Sports fans, in general, are completely neurotic.

That said, I would be worried about support dropping off for other reasons. Namely, the fact that fans are realizing they are being price gouged. Even with a winning team, the prices MLSE has laid out do not reflect the value associated with level of competition. Fans have indicated as much with just 10,000+ showing up for the CCL matches and the north stand tickets remaining available for MLS matches.

The casual fan came to BMO, they liked it but they really aren't that interested in going back at those prices. They have come, saw and have likely moved on.

Pricing is the biggest threat to the stability of this franchise. Fans will jump on and off the bandwagon depending on the news of the day. The pricing is what remains the constant threat.

ManUtd4ever
03-07-2011, 08:55 AM
Like Winter said in the Cann article today, it takes time to change mentality. The entire system has to be re-done.

I like the fact that TFC has done a decent job with their academy and that the new guys are promoting that. The academy, at the end of the day, is the future.

Do I want the team to win? Of course.

But to do things properly it takes time. I rather be a consistent winner than a flash in the pan.


I enjoyed the read but I wouldn't worry so much about support dropping off as a result of a losing season. What are we, a few weeks into the Winter era? Collectively, we've gone from euphoria over the decision to adopt a version of "Total Football", to optimism at the showing in Turkey, to dropping a few exhibition games in North America, to wondering if Winter will be here in a year.

Sports fans, in general, are completely neurotic.

That said, I would be worried about support dropping off for other reasons. Namely, the fact that fans are realizing they are being price gouged. Even with a winning team, the prices MLSE has laid out do not reflect the value associated with level of competition. Fans have indicated as much with just 10,000+ showing up for the CCL matches and the north stand tickets remaining available for MLS matches.

The casual fan came to BMO, they liked it but they really aren't that interested in going back at those prices. They have come, saw and have likely moved on.

Pricing is the biggest threat to the stability of this franchise. Fans will jump on and off the bandwagon depending on the news of the day. The pricing is what remains the constant threat.

Agreed on all points.

It's important to temper expectations this year. There is a realistic chance that TFC will struggle this season, and if supporters start demanding wholesale changes to the front office yet again, where would that leave the organization moving forward? If MLSE makes another knee jerk reaction decision regarding personnel, future managerial candidates with any credibility won't work for MLSE, period.

There are recent examples around the league of management regimes that struggled in their first year and went on to build successful clubs because they were given a realistic timeframe to do so, such as Real Salt Lake, Colorado, and San Jose.

Now more than ever, patience is a virtue...

Yohan
03-07-2011, 09:05 AM
hey, i dont mind if people get fed up with TFC and not renew their season tickets in the Southend so that I can get a pair of season tickets there ;)

mdc 77
03-07-2011, 09:38 AM
Sure Mo's firing was a year to late...just like this topic is.

It's a new regime, new philosophy and I'm ready to give these guys time to build something here. It's been 2 months so far, many of the changes have been behind the scenes and I think were headed in the right direction. Never had that feeling with Mo from day one.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-07-2011, 10:06 AM
Sure Mo's firing was a year to late...just like this topic is.

It's a new regime, new philosophy and I'm ready to give these guys time to build something here. It's been 2 months so far, many of the changes have been behind the scenes and I think were headed in the right direction. Never had that feeling with Mo from day one.

yeah my sentiments are the same. its well written and i was going to reread it before posting something similar to this to make sure i hadnt missed anything new. But yeah, this is old news, i guess some people need to be reminded?

jabbronies
03-07-2011, 10:15 AM
If it's any consolation, I just downloaded the new FIFA 11 update and with the new players we got, TFC play much better than the old one :D

Darlofletch
03-07-2011, 10:16 AM
If it's any consolation, I just downloaded the new FIFA 11 update and with the new players we got, TFC play much better than the old one :D

in fifa11 land, we have new players? must be nice.

jabbronies
03-07-2011, 10:47 AM
in fifa11 land, we have new players? must be nice.

well...basically everyone who is camp right now:

Martina
Soolsma
Bouchiba
Omphrey
Ornoch
omphroy
beattie

and I think Plata

and like a half dozen other guys I've never heard of

Ossington Mental Youth
03-07-2011, 10:52 AM
yeah its drafts and trialists

Lizzy
03-07-2011, 10:00 PM
My sole concern at this point is the lack of quality coming in for trials. We have a DPP who is extremely knowledgeable and connected. But so far, Martina is the only real find, as far as I can tell, maybe Zavarise as well.

MLS should pop the money to prop up this rebuilding year somewhat with a second and third DP. That kind of moolah will open up possibilities more quickly than trial-and-error.

My suspicion, though, is that because we're already near the international limit, they've decided this is a rebuilding year, and that until we can a) integrate more home grown product effectivley and b) pull in some decent players from around the league via draft bait/contracts ending, there won't be much movement.

Can anyone explain to me what our lineup was yesterday? Not sure who the wingbacks were.

Do you mean MLSE? Not trying to be smart just want to understand fully.

Pookie
03-07-2011, 10:18 PM
Do you mean MLSE? Not trying to be smart just want to understand fully.

^ I think he means Major League Soccer. In New York (and LA) they used allocation money to prop up markets that were in need of growth.

For example, they engineered the Henry and Marquez transfers to New York. I used the word transfer lightly as there was never a fee attached to the sale of their contracts.

The sellers must have been promised something lucrative down the road too as they went as far as saying the fee would be $5M if they went to any team other than the Red Bulls.

A struggling TFC team, who take in dollars that are now worth more than the US buck in a revenue sharing league, isn't good for business.

Blowing Bubbles
03-07-2011, 11:17 PM
hey, i dont mind if people get fed up with TFC and not renew their season tickets in the Southend so that I can get a pair of season tickets there ;)

the Southend will always be full.

But there are plenty of red seats available if you want to pay a couple grand for season tix !

jloome
03-08-2011, 12:02 AM
Do you mean MLSE? Not trying to be smart just want to understand fully.

Typo. MLSE.

Pookie
03-08-2011, 06:32 AM
^ MLS makes more sense ;)