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View Full Version : Chanting at the Ref.......



Oblio2
07-01-2008, 09:00 PM
Im a ref, I know lots of refs. I was taught by the linesman at todays game, Amato De Luca. He's a FIFA linesman.
Listen, the worst thing to do is start chanting "Fuck the Ref/The Referee's a wanker/Im nlind-Im deaf etc"

The Ref knows this, hears it and will go defensive. Whether you like it or not, you will then not get any boderline calls going for your team. This is simply a bad idea.
Ask a Ref, see what they think.

yanggoh
07-01-2008, 09:01 PM
I would rather just call him out and let him go home and have to live with himself knowing that he really is a wanker, and he really did call a terrible game out there just to one up those angry fans in the crowd.

Pigfynn
07-01-2008, 09:02 PM
The ref today was a joke. Chanting was a natural reaction to what was clearly a man out of his depth.

Bullshit.

Oblio2
07-01-2008, 09:04 PM
Dude, chanting at the Ref....it happens at ALL our games.


Having everyone yell "Bullshit, bullshit" really doesnt help

Cambridge_Red
07-01-2008, 09:06 PM
It's unprofessional for a ref to fucking have an opinion. Give me a fucking break ofcourse fans are going to disagree.

yanggoh
07-01-2008, 09:06 PM
Dude, chanting at the Ref....it happens at ALL our games.


Having everyone yell "Bullshit, bullshit" really doesnt help
Obviously, though, the chanting at the ref was of a different caliber today. That PK put a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Usually we'll chant "Bullshit" only occasionally here and there, nothing to the degree that we did today.

Phil
07-01-2008, 09:07 PM
I agree, it doesn't help.

I usually wait until the second half or for some absolute shit calls... today it was easy to join in.

We should turn that energy into support for our team though.

Pigfynn
07-01-2008, 09:07 PM
It's unprofessional for a ref to fucking have an opinion. Give me a fucking break ofcourse fans are going to disagree.

QFT!!!!!!!!!!!

werewolf
07-01-2008, 09:11 PM
if I was as bad at my job, as those officials were today, I would expect (and deserved) to be called out in public, in front of such a large crowd.

Dredg_XI
07-01-2008, 09:11 PM
Im a ref, I know lots of refs. I was taught by the linesman at todays game, Amato De Luca. He's a FIFA linesman.
Listen, the worst thing to do is start chanting "Fuck the Ref/The Referee's a wanker/Im nlind-Im deaf etc"

The Ref knows this, hears it and will go defensive. Whether you like it or not, you will then not get any boderline calls going for your team. This is simply a bad idea.
Ask a Ref, see what they think.

This is what I've been saying since the first game of last bloody season. I'm sitting in 112, game is 0-0, we get a ball call, and the "referee's a wanker" starts. I yell at you guys to stfu, and I (yes, I!) get the "fuck you" looks.

Come on guys...I thought the RPB claimed to be educated football fans. If that were the case, you'd know it's only worth scolding the ref if you're losing. If you're winning, suddenly, you might not be. If you're down, you're gonna stay down. Think about it. Football refs have the most discretion of any refs in any sport.

But don't worry...most of you also chant "allez! allez!" when the game is 0-0 too...:rolleyes:

These are the types of things that need to stop from the supporters.

noochie
07-01-2008, 09:48 PM
Dude, chanting at the Ref....it happens at ALL our games.


Having everyone yell "Bullshit, bullshit" really doesnt help

It's theraputic... and he deserved it. They all did. FIFA or not, they had a crappy game.

TFC Cityboy
07-01-2008, 09:54 PM
It's theraputic... and he deserved it. They all did. FIFA or not, they had a crappy game.
spot on...it's a natural expression of frustration and will always come out.
I thought MLS refs were bad...til today

Torcida
07-01-2008, 10:02 PM
The worst part was how late the linesman raised his flag on that Cunningham offside, incredibly late and incredibly amateur.

Captain Croatia
07-01-2008, 10:02 PM
It seemed as if they got their licenses at the local flea-market.

camcamy
07-01-2008, 10:08 PM
The worst part was how late the linesman raised his flag on that Cunningham offside, incredibly late and incredibly amateur.

I'm a ref. Its better you think about for second or two before you have your flag up and your like "o shit" .

Torcida
07-01-2008, 10:11 PM
I'm a ref. Its better you think about for second or two before you have your flag up and your like "o shit" .
Im a ref as well. If you are unable to make quick decisions you should stay in House League and leave professional games in 20,000 seater stadiums to real refs.

noochie
07-01-2008, 10:11 PM
I'm a ref. Its better you think about for second or two before you have your flag up and your like "o shit" .

besides... they are playing passive offside a lot these days.

He did make the "o shit" move on the first one he called against Cunningham even though the ball was over his head and onto an overlap by Smith who was onside.

Clearly he didn't have a good game either... that or he doesn't understand the offside law.

Toronto_Bhoy
07-01-2008, 10:18 PM
Good refs do not allow supporters' chants to alter decisions one way or the other…just like good refs are not intimated by crowds…

Todays ref was simply poor

IMO the officiating didn't cost us a victory…a terrible performance did.

Heathen
07-01-2008, 10:21 PM
Dude, chanting at the Ref....it happens at ALL our games.


Having everyone yell "Bullshit, bullshit" really doesnt help

Listen, if the ref makes a shit call and the first thing you think is well I better not say anything because it might piss him off then we might as well all go home and never come back, I mean really

noochie
07-01-2008, 10:21 PM
Good refs do not allow supporters' chants to alter decisions one way or the other…just like good refs are not intimated by crowds…

Todays ref was simply poor

IMO the officiating didn't cost us a victory…a terrible performance did.

Agreed on the performance... however the officiating very well may have cost the draw ;)

ExiledRed
07-01-2008, 10:43 PM
That Bastard blatantly manipulated the game, he should be suspended and held accountable.

I'm usually against knee jerk chanting at the ref, but today was ridiculous, he's not allowed to punish the crowd, by making ludicrous game changing miscalls and non calls. He is a disgrace to football.

Blizzard
07-01-2008, 11:11 PM
That Bastard blatantly manipulated the game, he should be suspended and held accountable.

I'm usually against knee jerk chanting at the ref, but today was ridiculous, he's not allowed to punish the crowd, by making ludicrous game changing miscalls and non calls. He is a disgrace to football.

He is the new Tony Evangelista! :taz:

Roogsy
07-01-2008, 11:15 PM
And you know what? The ref chants generally don't catch on very much. They are usually sparse and very short.

Today? Shoot...it should have been sang all game long. They blew.

Shaughno
07-01-2008, 11:16 PM
That Bastard blatantly manipulated the game, he should be suspended and held accountable.

I'm usually against knee jerk chanting at the ref, but today was ridiculous, he's not allowed to punish the crowd, by making ludicrous game changing miscalls and non calls. He is a disgrace to football.



Exactly. He has a job to do out there, altering a game's outcome because he feels the crowd is getting on his nerves? That is unprofessional as it gets my friends.

I'm a ref, I've had shit yelled at me that would have made me snap in a different situation. While acting as the referee you are supposed to exhibit class and professionalism. His mind was obviously not thinking about this at all.

Totally unacceptable behaviour.

colman1860
07-01-2008, 11:32 PM
The worst part was how late the linesman raised his flag on that Cunningham offside, incredibly late and incredibly amateur.

Gotta disagree on that...he had it up well before cunningham even shot. Just because nobody at the game knows a thing about soccer and is still cheering 15 minutes later...honestly, if you've got any experience watching the game you glance at the linesman on ANY throughpass. it kind of gets to me that the typical BMO crowd is not knowledgeable about the game. Several examples:
"You cant call offside and a foul too" (from a guy behind me). Sure you can. The ref played advantage for Vancouver and brought it back a second later on an offside call. This was one of his better calls throughout the game.
"Cunningham didnt even touch it" (person in my row, on the play where cunningham was offside and then left it for Smith). No, Cunningham didnt touch it, but was still actively offside as he originally went for the ball.

About the ref overall...it didnt seem like he called a great game, but I dont want to completely rip him until ive seen replays. The penalty against us was clearly a foul by brennan. Brennans claim for a penalty on a breakaway was a joke...hes lucky he didnt get called for diving. Kind of takes the bite out of his "you fucking cunt" rant at NE. Which leaves Guevaras wembley goal...no clue whether it crossed the line, but youve got to give it to the linesman, who was right on the goalline and called it right away. Much better view than I had in 108 so I wont challenge him. As for Smith going down in the box, that looked like a clear penalty. Again, havent seen a replay, but I think the ref butchered that call. I think his biggest mistake was letting the game get so out of hand...he was a bit slow reacting to the chippy play which went on throughout the game, and better use of his cards could have stopped that quicker.

Sorry for the speel, I'm a referee myself, and take more of an interest in them than most fans. Also, Torcida, none of this was directed at you apart from the fact that the linesman had his flag up quickly. It just turned into a megapost. Frustrating game anyway.

colman1860
07-01-2008, 11:37 PM
Also, the late flag raising that does go on sometimes is because of the (revised) passive offside rule. Referees tell their linesmen to keep their flags down until the forward has made a clear move for the ball. This rule is criticized alot because it looks like the linesman is undecisive and therefore pisses off the fans who think he is keeping his flag down. I think we saw that today. The benefits of this rule are that play isnt stopped right away if the defense could easily clear the ball, keeping the game more fluid.

noochie
07-01-2008, 11:39 PM
Also, the late flag raising that does go on sometimes is because of the (revised) passive offside rule. Referees tell their linesmen to keep their flags down until the forward has made a clear move for the ball. This rule is criticized alot because it looks like the linesman is undecisive and therefore pisses off the fans who think he is keeping his flag down. I think we saw that today. The benefits of this rule are that play isnt stopped right away if the defense could easily clear the ball, keeping the game more fluid.

He didn't follow the rule on the first offside call when Smith (who actually played the ball) was onside. He was an inconsistent twat.

leedsutd85
07-01-2008, 11:43 PM
not even fucking true man, everyone else agrees he had it up real late...and obviously you dont know shit about the game if you think they deserved a penalty... never seen that called in all my years of watching football

colman1860
07-01-2008, 11:51 PM
He didn't follow the rule on the first offside call when Smith (who actually played the ball) was onside. He was an inconsistent twat.

Cunningham ran directly to the ball, then stopped short and waved to Smith to take he.
From Law 11: "Offside Offense: An attacker is making any gesture or movement which deceives or distracts the defender."
Theres a fancy little diagram which i cant draw which shows that the attacker makes the defender think he may play the ball, but then doesnt. This is exactly the scenario with Cunningham and Smith today.

colman1860
07-01-2008, 11:53 PM
not even fucking true man, everyone else agrees he had it up real late...and obviously you dont know shit about the game if you think they deserved a penalty... never seen that called in all my years of watching football

What do you mean real late? Before Cunningham even got to the ball I already turned away in disgust as the flag went up. Of course my section is still throwing a party 10 minutes later. You too?

noochie
07-01-2008, 11:55 PM
Cunningham ran directly to the ball, then stopped short and waved to Smith to take he.
From Law 11: "Offside Offense: An attacker is making any gesture or movement which deceives or distracts the defender."
Theres a fancy little diagram which i cant draw which shows that the attacker makes the defender think he may play the ball, but then doesnt. This is exactly the scenario with Cunningham and Smith today.

You don't have to quote it, I know it... I also know that it is the most vaguely worded rule ever created. A "distraction" is clearly open to interpretation. If Cunningham is onside and farts to distract the defender, the ref can raise the flag. You talk about pace of play and then hide in the rule grey area... I guess you really are a ref.

colman1860
07-01-2008, 11:56 PM
It is pretty vaguely worded, I'll give you that. No need to get all confrontational. However, referees call the rule this way all the time (not just MLS refs).

noochie
07-01-2008, 11:57 PM
It is pretty vaguely worded, I'll give you that. No need to get all confrontational. However, referees call the rule this way all the time (not just MLS refs).

All I was trying to say is that you can't call it one way one minute and then another way the next. He was inconsistent, bottom line.

colman1860
07-01-2008, 11:58 PM
not even fucking true man, everyone else agrees he had it up real late...and obviously you dont know shit about the game if you think they deserved a penalty... never seen that called in all my years of watching football

And about the penalty: Brennan climbs all over the guy and finishes lying on top of him. If thats not a penalty, I dont know what is. Again, whats with the "you dont know shit"? Have i insulted you in some way? Calm down...im just stating my opinion.

colman1860
07-01-2008, 11:58 PM
All I was trying to say is that you can't call it one way one minute and then another way the next. He was inconsistent, bottom line.

When did he call it differently another time?

leedsutd85
07-02-2008, 12:00 AM
And about the penalty: Brennan climbs all over the guy and finishes lying on top of him. If thats not a penalty, I dont know what is. Again, whats with the "you dont know shit"? Have i insulted you in some way? Calm down...im just stating my opinion.

Not sure what you were watching man... As Carver said he hasn't seen that called since about 1945... but go on, keep thinking it's a penalty... as far as I'm concerned it's one of the biggest flops I've ever seen...

noochie
07-02-2008, 12:02 AM
When did he call it differently another time?

Talking about speed of raising the flag (passive, vs. not). Try to keep up. :rolleyes:

leedsutd85
07-02-2008, 12:02 AM
as for you don't know shit.. i hate this whole im a ref so i know everything attitude... if today showed anything it's not that difficult to become a ref in this country, all you need is a pulse...

noochie
07-02-2008, 12:03 AM
And about the penalty: Brennan climbs all over the guy and finishes lying on top of him. If thats not a penalty, I dont know what is. Again, whats with the "you dont know shit"? Have i insulted you in some way? Calm down...im just stating my opinion.

That never gets called. He was backing in as much as Jimmy was holding on, this happens on every corner and could be called on any corner. It doesn't get called. DePiero needed to be a big boy today and he was.

leedsutd85
07-02-2008, 12:06 AM
That never gets called. He was backing in as much as Jimmy was holding on, this happens on every corner and could be called on any corner. It doesn't get called. DePiero needed to be a big boy today and he was.

Couldn't agree more man...

Blizzard
07-02-2008, 12:07 AM
That never gets called. He was backing in as much as Jimmy was holding on, this happens on every corner and could be called on any corner. It doesn't get called. DePiero needed to be a big boy today and he was.

It was more obvious than that in that he wasn't backing in. JB was standing there and he just ran straight into JB and then flopped. It was an incredibly cynical (if crafty) attempt at suckering a barely above amateur referee (who should never get closer to the field than the fourth officials table).

It worked! :taz:

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:07 AM
as for you don't know shit.. i hate this whole im a ref so i know everything attitude... if today showed anything it's not that difficult to become a ref in this country, all you need is a pulse...

I never said that I know more about soccer than you because I'm a ref. I justified giving a big speel on the topic by saying that as a ref im more interested in refereeing than most people. I'm by no means a big-shot ref - I'm 18 years old and havent got past rep yet. I do agree with you on the system through which refs are brought along. Its useless. You can progress as long as you know the precise dimensions of the field and net, and the correct pressure of the ball. Are you ever tested on judging on-field situations? No.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:09 AM
Apology from me here: I said earlier that I hadnt seen highlights. I have now. Should never have been a penalty.

I still stand firm on the flag being up ontime on Cunninghams non-goal :D

leedsutd85
07-02-2008, 12:09 AM
I never said that I know more about soccer than you because I'm a ref. I justified giving a big speel on the topic by saying that as a ref im more interested in refereeing than most people. I'm by no means a big-shot ref - I'm 18 years old and havent got past rep yet. I do agree with you on the system through which refs are brought along. Its useless. You can progress as long as you know the precise dimensions of the field and net, and the correct pressure of the ball. Are you ever tested on judging on-field situations? No.

That's the problem man... today's ref, whether he got the calls right or wrong, clearly wasn't qualified to be officiating a game of this magnitude, and perhaps more importanty, this speed...

Roogsy
07-02-2008, 12:14 AM
Apology from me here: I said earlier that I hadnt seen highlights. I have now. Should never have been a penalty.

I still stand firm on the flag being up ontime on Cunninghams non-goal :D

I dont care if it was on time for the non-goal...more importantly...was it the right CALL???

Beyond that...THEN you can talk about the timing.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:17 AM
That's the problem man... today's ref, whether he got the calls right or wrong, clearly wasn't qualified to be officiating a game of this magnitude, and perhaps more importanty, this speed...

This became clear in the little scuffles that broke out. He couldnt handle them.
I get the feeling they were giving him a try in a "meaningless" (read: non MLS) game. They had a more experienced man available - Silvio Petrescu (who often does middles for TFC in MLS) was the fourth official.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:18 AM
I dont care if it was on time for the non-goal...more importantly...was it the right CALL???

Beyond that...THEN you can talk about the timing.

Very true. I havent been able to find it anywhere. CBC Sports only has the penalty and a bunch of missed chances.

Roogsy
07-02-2008, 12:20 AM
If you are on full player, they do already have the full game up.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:22 AM
Tomorrow. I need sleep. Good night all.

Roogsy
07-02-2008, 12:23 AM
I can't sleep...I am still really upset about that game.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:28 AM
Im back. Looking for it on the CBC. what minute was it?

leedsutd85
07-02-2008, 12:29 AM
just watched it... he was onside for sure... night folks

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:30 AM
serious? fuck. what minute?

leedsutd85
07-02-2008, 12:31 AM
serious? fuck. what minute?

80ish

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:38 AM
i got a freezeframe going also. theres no daylight, but it looks like part of cunninghams leg is ahead of the defender. the rule is "any part of the body that one can score with". its very hard to say, but im leaning towards correct call. dont tell me im saying that because refs always stick together, or some crap like that. i legitimately think that it was offside. However, the fact that its even debateable after we watch slow motion replay, shows how difficult a linesmans job really is. I dont think we can say theyre useless cunts when its really that close. And youre kidding yourself if you think they have it in for one team. theyre trying as hard as any of the players to have a good performance.

noochie
07-02-2008, 12:38 AM
I can't sleep...I am still really upset about that game.

+1 although I am gonna swallow a couple sleeping pills with a shot of scotch to see if I can't fix that problem ;)

Roogsy
07-02-2008, 12:47 AM
i got a freezeframe going also. theres no daylight, but it looks like part of cunninghams leg is ahead of the defender. the rule is "any part of the body that one can score with". its very hard to say, but im leaning towards correct call. dont tell me im saying that because refs always stick together, or some crap like that. i legitimately think that it was offside. However, the fact that its even debateable after we watch slow motion replay, shows how difficult a linesmans job really is. I dont think we can say theyre useless cunts when its really that close. And youre kidding yourself if you think they have it in for one team. theyre trying as hard as any of the players to have a good performance.

So a rarely used rule is used against us for a PK AND in our house, we don't get the benefit of the doubt on a dubious call? I call bullshit.

Dichio gets MUGGED on a consistent basis in the box. No calls.

Ricketts got his legs hacked in the first half, no call.

Brennan barely touches Nash...who goes down like a $2 crack whore...PK.

Cunny is level with a defender and his leg MAY be ahead by a bit but like you said..there is no daylight...most linesmen do NOT make that call...but we have it go against us. Really?

In our house?

Bullshit.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 12:58 AM
Your arguments are based on what most refs do. Most refs dont use that rule. Most linesmen dont make that call. Can you in any case (even on the penalty, which I dont believe should have been one) say that the referees 100% blew it? While its not usually called, Brennan is tugging his shirt. Cunningham is offside. Period. Id attach the screenshot but the attachment is too big. It doesnt matter what most linesmen would do. They would be wrong. I dont recall any stuff with Dichio today, though it does happen a lot in other games. I dont remember anything about Ricketts, but either way, it wasnt a game changing call, was it?

Just think it through logically. Refs are not out to bullshit any one team. They want to progress in their careers just like anybody else, and the best way to do that is to make the right calls. Screwing one team over leaves nothing to gain for them, unless theyve been bribed. However, this isnt Italy. Therefore, while we may have been unlucky on the penalty, we only have ourselves to blame that were not beating Vancouver 5-0. Anything else is making excuses.

Roogsy
07-02-2008, 01:01 AM
Your arguments are based on what most refs do.

Of course it is! That is what players play according to! You telling me this ref will make that call on a consistent basis...I will call serious bullshit.

yanggoh
07-02-2008, 01:09 AM
I can't sleep...I am still really upset about that game.

same here. my head is still swirling with ideas of jumping in my car, driving to wherever the hell that ref lives and egging his house.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 01:12 AM
unless theyve been bribed. However, this isnt Italy.

Over I go to another thread, and find that somebody is suggesting that the ref was bribed. Sometimes this board really depresses me.

egoodwin
07-02-2008, 01:14 AM
the penalty was one thing

but refusing to give a penalty back to Toronto on the vagrant fouls by Vancouver, plus a questionable offside call

that is really bush league?

where the fuck did they find this guy? the gutter at yonge and dundas during TFC street or something?

yanggoh
07-02-2008, 01:19 AM
according to his bio the guy is a doctor in orillia. if there has ever been a clearer case of somebody who shouldn't quit his day job...

stretchthetruth
07-02-2008, 01:24 AM
on the cunny offside shit-call, the linesman wasnt even close to being in position to call that, he's about 20 yards behind the play... fuck!

colman1860
07-02-2008, 07:43 AM
according to his bio the guy is a doctor in orillia. if there has ever been a clearer case of somebody who shouldn't quit his day job...
Every ref in the world has a dayjob btw, so I hope he doesnt quit it.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 07:44 AM
on the cunny offside shit-call, the linesman wasnt even close to being in position to call that, he's about 20 yards behind the play... fuck!

Yet it was offside. Whats the problem?

Fort York Redcoat
07-02-2008, 07:50 AM
I should think of the refs feelings at the game? If that's what the ref is thinking he's bush league. No one needs to get personal but if he's doing a terrible job he's going to hear it.

Shaughno
07-02-2008, 08:03 AM
I should think of the refs feelings at the game? If that's what the ref is thinking he's bush league. No one needs to get personal but if he's doing a terrible job he's going to hear it.


See my earlier response...


Exactly. He has a job to do out there, altering a game's outcome because he feels the crowd is getting on his nerves? That is unprofessional as it gets my friends.

I'm a ref, I've had shit yelled at me that would have made me snap in a different situation. While acting as the referee you are supposed to exhibit class and professionalism. His mind was obviously not thinking about this at all.

Totally unacceptable behaviour.

Parkdale
07-02-2008, 08:10 AM
I think holding the ref accountable is important. Clearly the league isn't doing anything to improve on the quality of officiating, so it's up to us to make noise when we're seeing bad calls. This isn't a teenage referee and a game of 8 year olds in the park. That would be the wrong time to start yelling at a ref, but TFC at BMO is as big as it gets around here, so the refs had damn well better be able to take some ribbing.

brad
07-02-2008, 09:13 AM
I still stand firm on the flag being up ontime on Cunninghams non-goal :D

I'll back you on that one. I saw it before the ball was in the net as well.

dannyd
07-02-2008, 09:31 AM
I think holding the ref accountable is important. Clearly the league isn't doing anything to improve on the quality of officiating, so it's up to us to make noise when we're seeing bad calls. This isn't a teenage referee and a game of 8 year olds in the park. That would be the wrong time to start yelling at a ref, but TFC at BMO is as big as it gets around here, so the refs had damn well better be able to take some ribbing.

let's remember this wasn't a league game, it's a CSA tournament - which explains ALOT... it seems like everything the CSA touches turns to shit.

I find MLS has gotten better in terms of officiating over the last few years.

yanggoh
07-02-2008, 09:57 AM
Every ref in the world has a dayjob btw, so I hope he doesnt quit it.

Clearly, you missed the point of the post. I was implying that he was a terrible ref. Obviously most referees have other jobs.

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 10:56 AM
Just think it through logically. Refs are not out to bullshit any one team. They want to progress in their careers just like anybody else, and the best way to do that is to make the right calls. Screwing one team over leaves nothing to gain for them, unless theyve been bribed. However, this isnt Italy.

And Italy is the only place in the world bribes happen?

There is no organised crime in Canada/North America?

Italian football is constantly under the world's scrutiny? is the CSA?

Heathen
07-02-2008, 11:13 AM
And Italy is the only place in the world bribes happen?

There is no organised crime in Canada/North America?

Italian football is constantly under the world's scrutiny? is the CSA?

If it involves the CSA it wouldn't be organised crime

yanggoh
07-02-2008, 11:14 AM
If it involve sthe CSA it wouldn't be organised crime

:rofl:

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 11:26 AM
If it involves the CSA it wouldn't be organised crime

I cannot believe there was no manipulation yesterday. I dont care if it was because the cunt had his feelings hurt, because he's been a lifelong fan of Whitecaps or Impact, because he's working with the CSA to ensure more than one canadian team is considered succesful, because Saputo the billionaire has lined his pockets, or to assist the USL teams in their attempt to gain more credibility in their MLS bids.

I don't care either, all I care is that that match was DELIBERATELY manipulated.

It might as well be wrestling.

Heathen
07-02-2008, 11:28 AM
I cannot believe there was no manipulation yesterday. I dont care if it was because the cunt had his feelings hurt, because he's been a lifelong fan of Whitecaps or Impact, because he's working with the CSA to ensure more than one canadian team is considered succesful, because Saputo the billionaire has lined his pockets, or to assist the USL teams in their attempt to gain more credibility in their MLS bids.

I don't care either, all I care is that that match was DELIBERATELY manipulated.

It might as well be wrestling.

I share your suspicions

ilikemusic
07-02-2008, 11:32 AM
Anyone implying this game was fixed in any manner is letting the players off the hook.

Toronto played like shit and deserved to lose 1-0.

Heathen
07-02-2008, 11:33 AM
Anyone implying this game was fixed in any manner is letting the players off the hook.

Toronto played like shit and deserved to lose 1-0.

No, if the players had done their job then the game wouldn't have been fixable. You can disallow one goal and give one penalty, you can't do that 3 or 4 times and get away with it.

Jimmy The Saint
07-02-2008, 11:52 AM
Has Anyone here, on this board, watched any other LIVE professional sporting event OTHER than Football in North America, and outside of Toronto?

Have you seen what happens at the Bell Center in Montreal when a ref makes a bad call? Or in Philadelphia when there's a flag on the play against the Eagles, and there shouldn't be? How about a Cubbies game in Chicago when the ump makes a bad call?

Yes we were brutal. But in all of the examples above, and in others, I have seen the refs get treated much worse.

Professional referees need to ignore the crowd and move on. Period.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 11:55 AM
And Italy is the only place in the world bribes happen?

There is no organised crime in Canada/North America?

Italian football is constantly under the world's scrutiny? is the CSA?

do you really think triads in vancouver have an interest in the nutrilite canadian soccer championship? im sorry, youre deluded.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 11:58 AM
I don't care either, all I care is that that match was DELIBERATELY manipulated.

I usually respect opinions on here, but thats fucking ridiculous.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 11:58 AM
Clearly, you missed the point of the post. I was implying that he was a terrible ref. Obviously most referees have other jobs.

Nono, I got it. No offense meant.

olegunnar
07-02-2008, 12:04 PM
do you really think triads in vancouver have an interest in the nutrilite canadian soccer championship? im sorry, youre deluded.

Joey Saputo would.
A Van win was the best possible outcome for his team.

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 12:11 PM
I usually respect opinions on here, but thats fucking ridiculous.

Mate, I dont care if you're a top class referee or a kid in training.

You're 18, which means when you were the shape of a tadpole, I was watching professional football live.

I've seen some crazy shit in those 27 years of going to football matches, but never in my life have I seen anything so deliberate and blatant.

Open your eyes, boy.

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 12:12 PM
do you really think triads in vancouver have an interest in the nutrilite canadian soccer championship? im sorry, youre deluded.

That was a joke. The manipulation charge wasn't.

And btw, despite the light hearted nature of that comment, if you dont think triads or other organised gangs have an interest in gambling related to professional soccer, then you're deluded.

ilikemusic
07-02-2008, 12:15 PM
I've seen some crazy shit in those 27 years of going to football matches, but never in my life have I seen anything so deliberate and blatant.


I dont care how many matches youve seen (not that its relevant anyways) youve gone off the deep end.

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 12:18 PM
I dont care how many matches youve seen (not that its relevant anyways) youve gone off the deep end.

I went off the deep end years ago, that doesnt change a thing about yesterdays match, in relation to the officiating.

Why is manipulation so far fetched? I think incompetence is more far fetched to be honest, nobody is that incompetent.

Shaughno
07-02-2008, 12:21 PM
I went off the deep end years ago, that doesnt change a thing about yesterdays match, in relation to the officiating.

Why is manipulation so far fetched? I think incompetence is more far fetched to be honest, nobody is that incompetent.


It's the Canadian thing... we're supposed to be all trusting and good natured. There's no way such a thing could happen in our perfect country!!!!!!! :canada:

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 12:26 PM
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king?

Shaughno
07-02-2008, 12:28 PM
Hell yeah.

jabbronies
07-02-2008, 12:32 PM
The CSA is a joke and thier Refs are just as bad.

ExiledRed
07-02-2008, 12:35 PM
^ Corrupt.

If the CSA doesn't hold this guy acountable, then what other conclusions can be drawn?

Is incompetence any more acceptable anyway?

Hooligan69
07-02-2008, 12:36 PM
The CSA holding a ref accountable? Hell will freeze over before that happens.

Rochdale
07-02-2008, 03:18 PM
Gotta disagree on that...he had it up well before cunningham even shot. Just because nobody at the game knows a thing about soccer and is still cheering 15 minutes later...honestly, if you've got any experience watching the game you glance at the linesman on ANY throughpass. it kind of gets to me that the typical BMO crowd is not knowledgeable about the game. Several examples:
"You cant call offside and a foul too" (from a guy behind me). Sure you can. The ref played advantage for Vancouver and brought it back a second later on an offside call. This was one of his better calls throughout the game.
"Cunningham didnt even touch it" (person in my row, on the play where cunningham was offside and then left it for Smith). No, Cunningham didnt touch it, but was still actively offside as he originally went for the ball.

About the ref overall...it didnt seem like he called a great game, but I dont want to completely rip him until ive seen replays. The penalty against us was clearly a foul by brennan. Brennans claim for a penalty on a breakaway was a joke...hes lucky he didnt get called for diving. Kind of takes the bite out of his "you fucking cunt" rant at NE. Which leaves Guevaras wembley goal...no clue whether it crossed the line, but youve got to give it to the linesman, who was right on the goalline and called it right away. Much better view than I had in 108 so I wont challenge him. As for Smith going down in the box, that looked like a clear penalty. Again, havent seen a replay, but I think the ref butchered that call. I think his biggest mistake was letting the game get so out of hand...he was a bit slow reacting to the chippy play which went on throughout the game, and better use of his cards could have stopped that quicker.

Sorry for the speel, I'm a referee myself, and take more of an interest in them than most fans. Also, Torcida, none of this was directed at you apart from the fact that the linesman had his flag up quickly. It just turned into a megapost. Frustrating game anyway.

Well said Colman.

Rochdale
07-02-2008, 03:19 PM
let's remember this wasn't a league game, it's a CSA tournament - which explains ALOT... it seems like everything the CSA touches turns to shit.

I find MLS has gotten better in terms of officiating over the last few years.

Steve Di Piero is also a MLS ref. He has officated in TFC games over the last 2 years.

Blizzard
07-02-2008, 05:04 PM
Steve Di Piero is also a MLS ref. He has officated in TFC games over the last 2 years.

Which proves that MLS officiating has not improved over the past few years! :(

He really did call a poor game but you can't blame him for the offside call. The man in the middle has no option but to trust his assistants. He certainly was in no position to overrule the linesman.

In regards to the Penalty, we've all seen many things much worse in the box that have gone unpunished. The fact that it ended in a dive make the call look even weaker. I still disagree with it having watched it at least a dozen times.

B

AL-MO
07-02-2008, 07:29 PM
Gotta disagree on that...he had it up well before cunningham even shot. Just because nobody at the game knows a thing about soccer and is still cheering 15 minutes later...honestly, if you've got any experience watching the game you glance at the linesman on ANY throughpass. it kind of gets to me that the typical BMO crowd is not knowledgeable about the game. Several examples:
"You cant call offside and a foul too" (from a guy behind me). Sure you can. The ref played advantage for Vancouver and brought it back a second later on an offside call. This was one of his better calls throughout the game.
"Cunningham didnt even touch it" (person in my row, on the play where cunningham was offside and then left it for Smith). No, Cunningham didnt touch it, but was still actively offside as he originally went for the ball.

About the ref overall...it didnt seem like he called a great game, but I dont want to completely rip him until ive seen replays. The penalty against us was clearly a foul by brennan. Brennans claim for a penalty on a breakaway was a joke...hes lucky he didnt get called for diving. Kind of takes the bite out of his "you fucking cunt" rant at NE. Which leaves Guevaras wembley goal...no clue whether it crossed the line, but youve got to give it to the linesman, who was right on the goalline and called it right away. Much better view than I had in 108 so I wont challenge him. As for Smith going down in the box, that looked like a clear penalty. Again, havent seen a replay, but I think the ref butchered that call. I think his biggest mistake was letting the game get so out of hand...he was a bit slow reacting to the chippy play which went on throughout the game, and better use of his cards could have stopped that quicker.

Sorry for the speel, I'm a referee myself, and take more of an interest in them than most fans. Also, Torcida, none of this was directed at you apart from the fact that the linesman had his flag up quickly. It just turned into a megapost. Frustrating game anyway.


I ALWAYS look at the linesman, (quickly) to see if his flag is up when a goal was scored. I was not celerbrating, I knew it wasn't a goal, whether I disagreed with it or not.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 10:34 PM
Exiled, I dont really care how much soccer youve watched. Yesterdays game wasnt completely out of hand with many blatantly wrong calls. Brennan did have a hand on the attackers shirt, and while many refs dont call that, you cant complain that this one did. He followed the rule book. Secondly, Cunningham was offside. It was close, yes. But he was off. We at no point deserved to score a goal. Vancouver did several times (Hitting the post late, guevara saving a goal with a tackle). If you put a 100% perfect ref in there, we still dont win the game. Suggesting that it was rigged just makes you look like a conspiracy freak. TFC simply didnt realize the holiday wasnt for them aswell.

mighty_torontofc_2008
07-02-2008, 10:37 PM
Im a ref, I know lots of refs. I was taught by the linesman at todays game, Amato De Luca. He's a FIFA linesman.
Listen, the worst thing to do is start chanting "Fuck the Ref/The Referee's a wanker/Im nlind-Im deaf etc"

The Ref knows this, hears it and will go defensive. Whether you like it or not, you will then not get any boderline calls going for your team. This is simply a bad idea.
Ask a Ref, see what they think.


CSA refs are a pile of shit and will never get big FIFA matches because of it, and if they are that way inclined then they should be a ref over a few name calling, send them back to kiddie football 101

noochie
07-02-2008, 10:39 PM
Exiled, I dont really care how much soccer youve watched. Yesterdays game wasnt completely out of hand with many blatantly wrong calls. Brennan did have a hand on the attackers shirt, and while many refs dont call that, you cant complain that this one did. He followed the rule book. Secondly, Cunningham was offside. It was close, yes. But he was off. We at no point deserved to score a goal. Vancouver did several times (Hitting the post late, guevara saving a goal with a tackle). If you put a 100% perfect ref in there, we still dont win the game. Suggesting that it was rigged just makes you look like a conspiracy freak. TFC simply didnt realize the holiday wasnt for them aswell.

How can you justify this? Why don't you find us a corner kick where this hasn't happened... in history? And FFS Clarke clearly fell down due to lack of integrity and intestinal fortitude.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 10:45 PM
How can you justify this? Why don't you find us a corner kick where this hasn't happened... in history? And FFS Clarke clearly fell down due to lack of integrity and intestinal fortitude.

However, it has been called before, and will be called again. the ref is within his rights to call it. A couple minutes earlier he was in the penalty area on a corner telling players to keep their hands off each others shirts (at least it looked like thats what he was saying from his gestures). Can you really say that because of 1 iffy penalty decision the game was rigged? thats just ridiculous. there must be rigged games every weekend then.

noochie
07-02-2008, 10:52 PM
However, it has been called before, and will be called again. the ref is within his rights to call it. A couple minutes earlier he was in the penalty area on a corner telling players to keep their hands off each others shirts (at least it looked like thats what he was saying from his gestures). Can you really say that because of 1 iffy penalty decision the game was rigged? thats just ridiculous. there must be rigged games every weekend then.

Show me the post where I say it was rigged and I will pay out a large sum of money. I actually said the opposite that I think the crappy play had more to do with it.

Like I said... this happens on every corner. There was no precedent to call the penalty other than pulling out the handbook. In fact, if you watch the game again can you tell me that during our 13 corner kicks a whitecaps player never had "a hand on the shirt". C'mon man you are proving my point... you call it by the book then call it both ways. He was an inconsistent ref, you are agreeing with me.

But hey... if you need to tell yourself that he did the right thing so you can feel all fuzzy inside at your next RA meeting then have at 'er.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 10:55 PM
I never said it was the right call. I think it was the wrong call. However, it wasnt a horribly blatant wrong call. Im not discussing whether the penalty was or wasnt one, im talking about whether we can take "inconsistent reffing" and conclude that the game was rigged. I know you didnt say that. Exiled did. Thats what I was talking about.

noochie
07-02-2008, 10:57 PM
understood... to be honest I am still kinda in shock that it was called. after watching it over and over it seems like such a routine part of the game. I am not much of one for conspiracy theories myself but this was suspect at best.

colman1860
07-02-2008, 10:59 PM
It was a suspect call. It wasnt a suspect performance to the point where we could consider that the ref was paid off.

noochie
07-02-2008, 11:01 PM
It was a suspect call. It wasnt a suspect performance to the point where we could consider that the ref was paid off.

lol... yeah I will give you that ;)

(I don't think he was that smart anyways... lol)

ExiledRed
07-03-2008, 09:33 AM
It was a suspect call. It wasnt a suspect performance to the point where we could consider that the ref was paid off.

It was a blatantly biased and partial performance, the game was deliberately manipulated against us. If the referee wasnt paid off or instructed to influence the game in WCs favour by a higher authority, then he was clearly just having a hissy fit, or doesn't like Toronto for whatever reason.

Whatever reason he had, he was not being fair, and was not acting professionally, and should never referee in a professional environment again.

If you think his performance wasn't in any way unfair, you should do something else too.

Lenny Dikestra
07-03-2008, 09:35 AM
I am goiing to be nothing but positive from Now On ,.. TFC will bounce back from this Loss ..
This team is going to bust lose and go on a nice win Streak !!!!

ExiledRed
07-03-2008, 09:36 AM
I am goiing to be nothing but positive from Now On ,.. TFC will bounce back from this Loss ..
This team is going to bust lose and go on a nice win Streak !!!!

Sorry to be a werewolf, but what the hell has your future attitude got to do with the referee on Saturdays game?

Shaughno
07-03-2008, 09:40 AM
^^ On a fucking roll today aren't ya mate? :lol:

Lenny Dikestra
07-03-2008, 09:43 AM
Sorry to be a werewolf, but what the hell has your future attitude got to do with the referee on Saturdays game?

I am hoping the ref will still change his mind on th PK and the offside ..

Oh wait THAT will nver happen ..so I think I willlook forward to the next game..
You keep bitching about something that can't be changed Exile:taz: