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brandrews
03-02-2011, 04:41 PM
http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/03/cann-leaves-camp

not sure if this is supposed to have its own thread, so if it should be somewhere else, please move it, but i didn't see anything on this yet.

brandrews
03-02-2011, 04:42 PM
i'm really not a fan of the timing of this most of all. i don't even know what else to say right now.

booo-urns.

werewolf
03-02-2011, 04:43 PM
maybe he is going to train with Celtic...

mastermixer
03-02-2011, 04:43 PM
Oh boy... here we go...

Smokecell
03-02-2011, 04:43 PM
this is bad news to say the least

Smokecell
03-02-2011, 04:44 PM
maybe he is going to train with Celtic...

:lol:

Serb_Star
03-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Toronto FC, where circus happens.

tfcleeds
03-02-2011, 04:45 PM
Unfortunate timing to say the least....

Alixir
03-02-2011, 04:46 PM
is he Dero's roommate by chance? Me feels the dero virus is spreading.

dantdot
03-02-2011, 04:46 PM
Dero's polluting their minds :D jk, but roh roh.

Alixir
03-02-2011, 04:48 PM
trying to Cann them out of more money??!! yeah that was pretty bad.

mastermixer
03-02-2011, 04:49 PM
Although the dude is a stand up guy, I say let him walk. He seemed to fit OK last year with our defense first tactics but I dont' see him as having the finesse we need from our back end to move the ball forward.

brandrews
03-02-2011, 04:51 PM
can he be released straight up without cap issues?

Carts
03-02-2011, 04:53 PM
Don't worry about the roster guys - TFC is going to have a promotion at the home opener where they select seat numbers and that person fills a spot on the bench!

Technorgasm
03-02-2011, 04:53 PM
WHY would they publish this?
seiously stupid. .
negotions are taking place and they hang string the player?

bad form.

Hang in there Peaches. . . I hope it all works out.

Carts
03-02-2011, 04:53 PM
trying to Cann them out of more money??!! yeah that was pretty bad.

Actually I kinda laughed..

Pigfynn
03-02-2011, 04:55 PM
TFC is going to have to take a stand with this shit.

This is how to destabilize a team very quickly. The players have to know that when you make a public show of yourself whilst trying to re-negotiate mid contract, there will be consequences.

Cann's an alright player and all, but who does he think he is exactly? What about the pre-season has indicated to him that he will 100% be a starting centre half ? He has not been very solid so far back there.

I just think this is a very troubling trend we have here.

mastermixer
03-02-2011, 04:55 PM
can he be released straight up without cap issues?

Can he walk out in the middle of a contract? Anything goes in TFC land.

JonO
03-02-2011, 04:55 PM
WHY would they publish this?
seiously stupid. .
negotions are taking place and they hang string the player?

bad form.

Hang in there Peaches. . . I hope it all works out.
I think their hands were tied. If it was just Orlando, it could be swept under the carpet, but people would notice his absence in Carolina. And then the club would be blamed for hiding things from us. No win situation.

noochie
03-02-2011, 04:56 PM
if it looks like a turd...

brandrews
03-02-2011, 04:58 PM
WHY would they publish this?
seiously stupid. .
negotions are taking place and they hang string the player?

bad form.

Hang in there Peaches. . . I hope it all works out.


really? dude picked up his ball and went home; he left the entire squad hung out to dry just before their final tune-up games.

why wouldn't the team try to put the onus on him?

DangerRed
03-02-2011, 04:58 PM
Oh for fuck's sakes...

Pachuco
03-02-2011, 05:00 PM
Considering the defenders I had to endure against Orlando. This could be a disaster. I don't think a stud CB like him is easy to replace. What I don't get is why the team is offering money if he's only completed 1 out of 4 years in a contract? Isn't this what everybody was bitching about with Dero? But in this case the team actually came back with an offer?

Carts
03-02-2011, 05:00 PM
if it looks like a turd...

Its TAXES!

Alixir
03-02-2011, 05:01 PM
well him and Dero did spend some quality time with each other when they were going to play in the friendly vs Greece.

Mark TFC
03-02-2011, 05:02 PM
Seeing the headline definately caught me off guard. Hopefully this gets sorted out soon, in one way or another.

noochie
03-02-2011, 05:02 PM
Its TAXES!

well played, well played

gmacpheetfc
03-02-2011, 05:03 PM
he played like shit for canada

Whoop
03-02-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm with Pigfynn.

You cry long enough, the team gives in.

razor787
03-02-2011, 05:04 PM
I may have made a mistake when I joined this group. Is TFC a football club or a soap opera? There always seems to be some drama.

Alixir
03-02-2011, 05:04 PM
he played like shit for canadatoo right

golasogolaso
03-02-2011, 05:13 PM
and that makes it 12 players available as at current? player knows this, also knows club is shopping for another CB, he's been asking for a raise, its always been put off- something had to break. my bigger concern is we are a few weeks away and we are far from having a quality squad in place.

also, where is the media following the squad to break this news first????

Wull
03-02-2011, 05:15 PM
Fuck him. Let him go walking down a runway for his money. I'm tired of these fucks making a mockery of our club. The front office and the players deserve each other with the shit-show they put on year in and year out. It's a shame the rest of us have to suffer through it

arsenal
03-02-2011, 05:16 PM
Perhaps he is realizing that he is at max value based on his season last year .... and that his limitations (ie. he is a deer caught in headlights when having to play the ball and not hoof it down field) are exposed for all to see in the new system.

DangerRed
03-02-2011, 05:19 PM
Man oh man. Roster-wise, we are absolutely fucked, especially on the back four. This is seriously going to be another year where some guy we just signed is putting on his kit in the back of a cab on his way to the first game.

Jeff s
03-02-2011, 05:20 PM
So lets see, we're 2 weeks away from the opening game. We haven't signed anybody. We got rid of a lot of players, and now players like Cann and Dero are bitching about their contracts.

Yup, this is looking EXACTLY like last season.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 05:23 PM
is he Dero's roommate by chance? Me feels the dero virus is spreading.

Man I thought it was his awesome attitude and willingness to give it all for the badge that made Cann a player of the year. Sure beats that selfish De Rosario character eh...

Oh wait.

More proof that players play for money and not for people's fanciful notions of loyalty.

And good for Cann for being a greedy player, because that's what I expect out of people who are trying to make a living playing the game.

leafsman
03-02-2011, 05:23 PM
get rid of him, players who do this piss me off. You signed the deal now live with it, when you suck after a big deal its not like you give money back to the club.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 05:23 PM
Man, oh man, looks like the rot runs deep in this club.

tfcleeds
03-02-2011, 05:24 PM
The more things change, the more they stay the same with this club. Shame...

Darlofletch
03-02-2011, 05:24 PM
well that's a fucking kick in the balls.

I know we're all supposed to have faith in winter and all that, but fuck, they're making it difficult.

SuperTCP
03-02-2011, 05:26 PM
What the f is going on? With first game only weeks away, where is our team?

Darlofletch
03-02-2011, 05:27 PM
I'd need more details before coming out pro or anti cann, but man this sucks. As for the 4 yr deal thing, i could have sworn that i read earlier that he was out of contract, or at the very least looking for a new deal, don't remember anyone mentioning he already had a 4 year deal back then.

fuck me, what a fucking shitshow.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 05:27 PM
get rid of him, players who do this piss me off. You signed the deal now live with it, when you suck after a big deal its not like you give money back to the club.

EDIT:

Nana is the next one as his contract expires at the end of the year but he becomes a free agent if he isn't signed by July.

SuperTCP
03-02-2011, 05:28 PM
well that's a fucking kick in the balls.

I know we're all supposed to have faith in winter and all that, but fuck, they're making it difficult.

First MLSE have us bend over an take it, now this kick in the balls. We can only take so much. Hurry up and sign some defenders with class and a striker who can finish.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 05:28 PM
Nevermind, just saw he's into his 2nd year of a 4 year contract.

Don't these guys know the aspect of fulfilling your contract.

Geez.

leafsman
03-02-2011, 05:29 PM
basing that on tfc article which says he is halfway through a 4yr deal

Whoop
03-02-2011, 05:30 PM
^^
Yeah just saw.

Thought he only signed for 1 year last season.

v00d00daddy
03-02-2011, 05:33 PM
Cann is a different position than DeRo though.

As far as I know Cann doesn't have a contract yet. I thought he only signed a one year deal? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Nana is the next one as his contract expires at the end of the year but he becomes a free agent if he isn't signed by July.

I was wondering the same thing.

If Cann is, in fact, under contract than I have little sympathy for him or the club.

This is what can happen when a player (no matter how good he is) thinks he's bigger than the team. What's worse.....this is what happens when a player acts out and the club capitulates.

Until a line is drawn in the sand, every player who thinks that he deserves more money will strong arm the team.

I really like Cann in our back line but if he's walking out while under contract he can keep walking. I'd rather lose every game than continue a foster a culture where the inmates run the asylum.

Now.....if he's out of contract it's a different story. Still a douchey move but contract negotiations turn out this way sometimes.

I'd be interested to know how much he wants and how much he's been offered. Then we'll see a great debate around here.

Honestly though, my first reaction was to laugh out loud. Not because it's a funny situation but because it seems like it's par for the course.

I seriously think they're trying to drive us nuts. LOL

edit: Just read above that he's under contract.

WOW! What a douche. Later bud.

FO....take note. This is what happens when you let a player fuck you around. Thanks MeRo.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 05:35 PM
^^
That's why I agree with Pigfynn and Voodoo.

You have to take a stand.

It sounds like DeRo might be getting a new deal so Cann is doing the same.

Point being, if you bitch and moan long enough the club will cave into your wage demands and you can't have that happen.

Pigfynn
03-02-2011, 05:38 PM
^^ He also knows that he has TFC over a bit of a barrel here with season almost ready to start.

"Try replacing me in 2 weeks, or pay me"

That's how you make a play for the dosh...wait, wait, wait...now gimme the money or I walk.

v00d00daddy
03-02-2011, 05:41 PM
^^ He also knows that he has TFC over a bit of a barrel here with season almost ready to start.

"Try replacing me in 2 weeks, or pay me"

That's how you make a play for the dosh...wait, wait, wait...now gimme the money or I walk.

Contractual question: What can he do now? Can he play for another team in another league? Would TFC have legal recourse if he did?

They better not give him what he wants. I'd sever all communication with him and move on. Back line be damned.

Cas87
03-02-2011, 05:42 PM
Take back his team MVP from last year and sell him to the Cypriot first division.
Because all he is worth right now is a bag of balls and some wine.

At this point play the damn academy for the season, at least they are loyal since they had to commit to the academy when it started.

Either that or MLSE should simply go out and buy two top level DPs with the leafs' profits to shut DeRo and Cann up (because watch ... if high profile players come in they won't complain about their money any more)

menefreghista
03-02-2011, 05:44 PM
Contractual question: What can he do now? Can he play for another team in another league? Would TFC have legal recourse if he did?

They better not give him what he wants. I'd sever all communication with him and move on. Back line be damned.

If he is under contract, he cannot play anywhere other than for TFC in MLS.

I'm confused about this 4 year contract talk in the article. Is that true? We have continually been told he was on a 1-year contract

Jeff s
03-02-2011, 05:46 PM
What annoys me is that fact the the most childish people in this club are Torontonians. Shouldn't they be the most passionate people in this club? Not a bunch of greedy fucks? I you didn't like the contract, they why the fuck did you sign it?

bgnewf
03-02-2011, 05:50 PM
Adrian Cann Leaves Camp!

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/03/cann-leaves-camp/

Late Wednesday afternoon Toronto FC announced vie their website that defender Adrian Cann has chosen to leave training camp and has returned to Toronto, after turning down the club's offer on a renegotiated contract. Thoughts on this very worrisome news.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 05:50 PM
EDIT:

Nana is the next one as his contract expires at the end of the year but he becomes a free agent if he isn't signed by July.

According to the TFC article, he's in the 2nd of a 4 year contract. So yes, he is under contract. So, I guess players never renegotiate contracts, right?

Nestease
03-02-2011, 05:52 PM
When did Adrian Cann sign a four year contract? In January, Duane Rollins reported Cann was out of contract and negotiations had stalled with both him and Nana (who still has one year remaining). Both were looking for longterm contracts. Adrian Cann was making $65,322 and Nana was making the base salary at $40,000.

CretanBull
03-02-2011, 05:55 PM
Cann is a good player and we need him, but having said that he's probably the most over-rated player in our short history. He's a "good" CB, nothing more nothing less. He just looks great because before him we've never had a CB than could even be called good.

HiHotorontofc
03-02-2011, 05:56 PM
Disgraceful timing, lacking a bit of class with it.

Considering Cann's abilities, toronto is most likely one of the best teams he could play for, especially at his age. Big city, Large fan base. Send him off to Moldova (Rohan Ricketts recently player there I think :P ) , wouldn't want him to mug Toronto FC off, he's lucky to play here.

DangerRed
03-02-2011, 05:57 PM
If Winter's right (no reason he shouldn't be, given that he coaches this shitshow), Cann's out of line. End of story. Still means our D is in shambles, but this is classic MeRo behaviour. Think this thread needs some Roogsy for pro-player balance.

Auzzy
03-02-2011, 05:59 PM
In other news, all fans who bring their footy boots & a valid transfer certificate to the home opener, get in for free.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 06:00 PM
I'm just loving how people somewhat blame De Ro for this. Entertaining as hell, but really, attitude is not a disease. It does not spread. Cann was everybody's golden boy, the example of what De Ro should be, and when the boy turns out to have spots, everyone throws him under the bus.

Hilarious.

Maybe people need to consider that Cann is a professional athlete, being paid to do a job, like De Ro, and it's his objective to get as much as he can from the club as possible.

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:01 PM
I'm pissed about this.

I understand Cann wanting a raise but TFC had the faith to sign him to a 4 year deal.

IMO he shouldn't be expecting a top rate raise while he is still under contract, but whatever the dog and pony show continues.

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:03 PM
I'm just loving how people somewhat blame De Ro for this. Entertaining as hell, but really, attitude is not a disease. It does not spread...

wrong.

bgnewf
03-02-2011, 06:03 PM
I'm just loving how people somewhat blame De Ro for this. Entertaining as hell, but really, attitude is not a disease. It does not spread. Cann was everybody's golden boy, the example of what De Ro should be, and when the boy turns out to have spots, everyone throws him under the bus.

Hilarious.

Maybe people need to consider that Cann is a professional athlete, being paid to do a job, like De Ro, and it's his objective to get as much as he can from the club as possible.

I have to agree with you sir!

Shameless plug here from my blog about this":

"...lets take a look at another example of a much more well known contract dispute to give this worrisome news some context.

Dwayne De Rosario’s contract woes were without a doubt a huge story this off season, and to date there has been no significant word from player or club since training camp began more than a month ago on if there has been any progress on resolving the issue.

Dwayne has claimed to be unhappy with his deal for months and he wants a considerable raise. (no news there!) Even in spite of this Dwayne had been part of training camp since his return from Scotland. He has not gone home. He has not held out. AdrianCann apparently has..."

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 06:05 PM
wrong.

Prove it...empirically. Produce the science that 100% demonstrates it.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 06:05 PM
According to the TFC article, he's in the 2nd of a 4 year contract. So yes, he is under contract. So, I guess players never renegotiate contracts, right?

I never said that. I said the team, unless it's expiring.

If players had their way they'd renegotiate their contracts after every good season.

Pigfynn
03-02-2011, 06:06 PM
I'm just loving how people somewhat blame De Ro for this. Entertaining as hell, but really, attitude is not a disease. It does not spread. Cann was everybody's golden boy, the example of what De Ro should be, and when the boy turns out to have spots, everyone throws him under the bus.

Hilarious.

Maybe people need to consider that Cann is a professional athlete, being paid to do a job, like De Ro, and it's his objective to get as much as he can from the club as possible.

This is absolutely false.

Have you ever played on or worked as part of a team? Attitude most certainly does spread. Good and bad.

Team culture is built on the premise of attitude and work ethic.

There is nothing else.

Suds
03-02-2011, 06:07 PM
When did Adrian Cann sign a four year contract? In January, Duane Rollins reported Cann was out of contract and negotiations had stalled with both him and Nana (who still has one year remaining). Both were looking for longterm contracts. Adrian Cann was making $65,322 and Nana was making the base salary at $40,000.

I remember that article too.
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?948-Cann-TFC-hold-the-line-on-Adrian-and-Nana-s-salary

I wonder what TFC's offer to Cann was? I can understand him asking for more money than he made last year. TFC have every right to say F U, you have a contract.

If Cann is looking for anything more than a bump to $110k he's delusional. He's had one decent year in the MLS and from what I've seen he's not showed he's smooth distributor of the ball from the back. He may not even be our long-term solution back there.

Alixir
03-02-2011, 06:07 PM
Prove it...empirically. Produce the science that 100% demonstrates it.that could be said either way

Whoop
03-02-2011, 06:07 PM
When did Adrian Cann sign a four year contract? In January, Duane Rollins reported Cann was out of contract and negotiations had stalled with both him and Nana (who still has one year remaining). Both were looking for longterm contracts. Adrian Cann was making $65,322 and Nana was making the base salary at $40,000.

That's what I thought. Which would make more sense why Cann would leave camp. In effect, he has no contract to start the season with.

But the press release says he's going into his 2nd year of a 4 year contract?!?

Hence the confusion.

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:08 PM
Prove it...empirically. Produce the science that 100% demonstrates it.

hahahaha! relax! some are prone to being influenced by others attitudes, surely you've seen this happen at some point in your life? co-workers, family etc etc.

lips
03-02-2011, 06:08 PM
WTF that's all I have to say

pekduck
03-02-2011, 06:08 PM
Prove it...empirically. Produce the science that 100% demonstrates it.

or go read any introductory psychology text book or academic writing on influence then you will reconsider your proposition

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:08 PM
This is absolutely false.

Have you ever played on or worked as part of a team? Attitude most certainly does spread. Good and bad.

Team culture is built on the premise of attitude and work ethic.

There is nothing else.


Thank you.

v00d00daddy
03-02-2011, 06:09 PM
I'm just loving how people somewhat blame De Ro for this. Entertaining as hell, but really, attitude is not a disease. It does not spread. Cann was everybody's golden boy, the example of what De Ro should be, and when the boy turns out to have spots, everyone throws him under the bus.

Hilarious.

Maybe people need to consider that Cann is a professional athlete, being paid to do a job, like De Ro, and it's his objective to get as much as he can from the club as possible.

dero was generally loved too...before his renegotiation demands.
it wont be any different with cann for me.

i thought he was a team first guy. i was wrong

youre right though...players do this all the time...douchebag, me first players.

add another one to the list i guess

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:09 PM
or go read any introductory psychology text book or academic writing on influence then you will reconsider your proposition

Thank you.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 06:10 PM
I'm just loving how people somewhat blame De Ro for this. Entertaining as hell, but really, attitude is not a disease. It does not spread. Cann was everybody's golden boy, the example of what De Ro should be, and when the boy turns out to have spots, everyone throws him under the bus.

Hilarious.

Maybe people need to consider that Cann is a professional athlete, being paid to do a job, like De Ro, and it's his objective to get as much as he can from the club as possible.

I can assure you having spent time with teams, in creating teams and being a part of teams, it does.

That's why I said the rot runs deep in this club.

ag futbol
03-02-2011, 06:10 PM
I think anyone who has signed a "four year contract" which most likely employer heavy with a series of one year team options with less than 100k base and a limited remaining career ... should take some liberties.

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:10 PM
I can assure you having spent time with teams, in creating teams and being a part of teams, it does.

That's why I said the rot runs deep in this club.

thank you.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 06:11 PM
Prove it...empirically. Produce the science that 100% demonstrates it.

FFS.

You spend 16 years with teams you don't need "science" to prove it.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 06:11 PM
This is absolutely false.

Have you ever played on or worked as part of a team? Attitude most certainly does spread. Good and bad.

Team culture is built on the premise of attitude and work ethic.

There is nothing else.

Absolutely. And i can categorically say that no matter how hard i worked, no matter how much I gave encouraging words to my fellow players, at least a quarter of them were still lazy assholes. The remaining 3/4s worked their arses off all the time. Work ethic and attitude comes from within. Maybe it was the fact I was playing lower tiered hockey, but generally, it doesn't spread.

It's a myth that, as far as I'm concerned, should be forgotten. Captains are really unnecessary to teams as well, except for the purpose of talking to the referees.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 06:12 PM
This is absolutely false.

Have you ever played on or worked as part of a team? Attitude most certainly does spread. Good and bad.

Team culture is built on the premise of attitude and work ethic.

There is nothing else.

Exactly.

Hell, it happens in workplaces, which the TFC is, a workplace.

Oldtimer
03-02-2011, 06:12 PM
I'm with Pigfynn.

You cry long enough, the team gives in.

It's working for DeRo.

v00d00daddy
03-02-2011, 06:14 PM
Prove it...empirically. Produce the science that 100% demonstrates it.

so..just to clarify

are you okay with CANNS DECISION of walking out of camp 3 weeks before the start of the season?

sidenote: i wanna hear from cann on this and get the facts on the contract length with cann

Auzzy
03-02-2011, 06:17 PM
Just read a funny comment on the TFC FB page:

Cann Adrian.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 06:17 PM
so..just to clarify

are you okay with CANNS DECISION of walking out of camp 3 weeks before the start of the season?

sidenote: i wanna hear from cann on this and get the facts on the contract length with cann

It's not whether I'm okay with it or not. I'm pointing out the sheer hilarity of the situation with respect to Cann and De Rosario.

And quite enjoying the outrage from the peanut gallery.

Really Cann is replaceable. If he walks out, no big deal in the long run. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of time to replace him.

I respect his right to re-negotiate his contract. I don't agree with the optics of it. Similar to the situation with De Ro. I still think he can play a role on the team as well.

kaos197O
03-02-2011, 06:18 PM
I too was under the impression that he was under a one year contract. There may have been a provision of some sort to revisit the terms of that contract after year one or if he met certain expectations though. the article does state that they offered Cann a NEW CONTRACT that he turned down.

Why did they do this if he was already on the hook? There is more to this than meets the eye.

Shame though that so many people here are ready to kick his ass to the curb for wanting to make more the $55 K's a year! He gave everything that he could last year, along with Nana. Was it good enough? We had guys like Usanov, Saric and Hscanovics, not regular starters, making around $100,000 a year. Ibrahim and White, $100,000 a year, Peterson at 125,000 and GARCIA at $190,000.

If he's not happy with the New Contract offer, why shouldn't he try to hammer out the issues before the season starts as opposed to carrying the problem into the regular season and in essence on to the field? I won't throw him under a bus till I know what's really going down!

LittleOzzy
03-02-2011, 06:19 PM
What a bum, I hope the team can fine him and make him sit out a season after voiding his contract.

I have lost all respect for Cann.

v00d00daddy
03-02-2011, 06:21 PM
It's not whether I'm okay with it or not. I'm pointing out the sheer hilarity of the situation with respect to Cann and De Rosario.

And quite enjoying the outrage from the peanut gallery.

Really Cann is replaceable. If he walks out, no big deal in the long run. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of time to replace him.

I respect his right to re-negotiate his contract. I don't agree with the optics of it. Similar to the situation with De Ro. I still think he can play a role on the team as well.

Fair enough. I just don't see why you get pleasure out of peoples outrage.

You may want to remember this the next time somebody suggests that it's okay that Jon DeGuzman (or any other player in his situation) plays for anyone other than Canada.

And I dont' mean to derail this tread so lets not get into a debate on loyalty or club v. country or anything like that. I honestly didn't mean to get you riled up by this post...so please don't. :canada:

Just found it weird that you find if funny that people are upset that ANOTHER player has put himself before the club...and at the worst of times.

Alixir
03-02-2011, 06:21 PM
I can give scientific proof based on my own studies. My daughter goes and hangs out with her cousin that has a really bad attitude and 87.43567% of the time she will try to bring the same bad attitude home. Calculations based on a study I did over a 3 year span with the help of a number of world renowned professors, a box of Smarties, and a lab monkey...

Also I may have been drunk at the time...

may not have happened...

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/6481/khan.jpg (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/khan.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:22 PM
It's not whether I'm okay with it or not. I'm pointing out the sheer hilarity of the situation with respect to Cann and De Rosario.

And quite enjoying the outrage from the peanut gallery.

Really Cann is replaceable. If he walks out, no big deal in the long run. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of time to replace him.

I respect his right to re-negotiate his contract. I don't agree with the optics of it. Similar to the situation with De Ro. I still think he can play a role on the team as well.

I'd like to point out the sheer hilarity of you thinking that a negative attitude can't affect others around you.

- the peanut gallery

Whoop
03-02-2011, 06:23 PM
Absolutely. And i can categorically say that no matter how hard i worked, no matter how much I gave encouraging words to my fellow players, at least a quarter of them were still lazy assholes. The remaining 3/4s worked their arses off all the time. Work ethic and attitude comes from within. Maybe it was the fact I was playing lower tiered hockey, but generally, it doesn't spread.

It's a myth that, as far as I'm concerned, should be forgotten. Captains are really unnecessary to teams as well, except for the purpose of talking to the referees.

What level?

Did you spend 6-8 hours a day with these guys? Did you travel every weekend, 10-12 hours away on a bus? Did you go to school with these guys?

Even at the pro level, did you train with these guys? Go out to dinner with them? Spend more time with them than your family?

Were you pissed off a teammate? The coach? Were a couple of you pissed off at a teammate or a coach? Did you guys talk about said teammate or said coach?

Did you get into fistfights with teammates?

Teams are like families. Even happy families have problems. A family member gets cancer, it affects the family.

A player with a shitty attitude might not infect the whole team, but he might infect one or two teammates who in effect, effect one or two more. Soon you get a split down the middle of the team especially when the team is doing shit. One group points the finger at the other saying "you're not pulling your weight" the other group says "we'll you just kiss the ass of the coach".

Fuck me. You don't have to a psychiatrist to know that.

The best players are the guys who are the character guys - which I go back to the arguments I've had in the past. Captain is just a word because you can't put "this guy has character" on a jersey. You don't have to be a captain to care about your teammates, your brothers. The captain is the guy who when things are going haywire, he says "guys, let's put the differences aside and go for some beers." Not, "fuck me, I'm out of here." He's the guy who when a new guy joins a team, goes to the new guy and says "welcome". When there's an issue he can go to the coach and the coach listens. Not the guy who just stands around and says "this doesn't affect me, what do I care? I'm getting my money."

I thought Cann was a character guy given the way he played and seemingly cared about the club. (I'll still reserve judgment until I know his exact contract status.) But if it's true that he's walking out on his contract, you know what, you ain't going to win with him. And even if you do, when the going gets tough, he's bailing. So fuck him.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 06:24 PM
I'd like to point out the sheer hilarity of you thinking that a negative attitude can't affect others around you.

- the peanut gallery

Co-signed.

v00d00daddy
03-02-2011, 06:26 PM
I too was under the impression that he was under a one year contract. There may have been a provision of some sort to revisit the terms of that contract after year one or if he met certain expectations though. the article does state that they offered Cann a NEW CONTRACT that he turned down.

Why did they do this if he was already on the hook? There is more to this than meets the eye.

Shame though that so many people here are ready to kick his ass to the curb for wanting to make more the $55 K's a year! He gave everything that he could last year, along with Nana. Was it good enough? We had guys like Usanov, Saric and Hscanovics, not regular starters, making around $100,000 a year. Ibrahim and White, $100,000 a year, Peterson at 125,000 and GARCIA at $190,000.

If he's not happy with the New Contract offer, why shouldn't he try to hammer out the issues before the season starts as opposed to carrying the problem into the regular season and in essence on to the field? I won't throw him under a bus till I know what's really going down!

Absolutely. If he was going into this season without a contract and hadn't reached an agreement with TFC up until today, so decided to walk out...then that's a different story.

Then the story becomes.....why the fuck would TFC say he's entering year 2 of a 4 year contract on the official website.

It's also strange that they would be renegotiating a deal that (presumably) was signed in the recent past.

The whole thing is fucked up right now. Can't wait to hear some clarification on the subject.

brad
03-02-2011, 06:26 PM
Cann is making around $56k per year. He was a solid player for us and now wants more money. Why is anybody surprised, looking for conspiracies or blaming Dero in this?

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 06:27 PM
I'd like to point out the sheer hilarity of you thinking that a negative attitude can't affect others around you.

- the peanut gallery

I guess I just believe that players ultimately make their own choices and that it's Cann's own attitude and own ethic that have led him to the decision he made. The fact that you're seriously suggesting that Cann is such a flake he's easily influenced by De Rosario is comical. If Cann made this choice it's because he was pre-disposed to it.

It's like saying the reason you murdered someone is because your friend murdered someone as well.

If logic like that stood up in court, everyone would get off Scot free for being unable to control themselves.

OurGame
03-02-2011, 06:30 PM
I too was under the impression that he was under a one year contract. There may have been a provision of some sort to revisit the terms of that contract after year one or if he met certain expectations though. the article does state that they offered Cann a NEW CONTRACT that he turned down.

Why did they do this if he was already on the hook? There is more to this than meets the eye.

Shame though that so many people here are ready to kick his ass to the curb for wanting to make more the $55 K's a year! He gave everything that he could last year, along with Nana. Was it good enough? We had guys like Usanov, Saric and Hscanovics, not regular starters, making around $100,000 a year. Ibrahim and White, $100,000 a year, Peterson at 125,000 and GARCIA at $190,000.

If he's not happy with the New Contract offer, why shouldn't he try to hammer out the issues before the season starts as opposed to carrying the problem into the regular season and in essence on to the field? I won't throw him under a bus till I know what's really going down!

cheers to you sir... great pov

FCC
03-02-2011, 06:31 PM
Do you really think you know what goes on behind closed doors? Does is not occur that maybe, the management and those running the team are a complete joke. We shouldnt be quick to judge what we dont know.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 06:32 PM
I too was under the impression that he was under a one year contract. There may have been a provision of some sort to revisit the terms of that contract after year one or if he met certain expectations though. the article does state that they offered Cann a NEW CONTRACT that he turned down.

Why did they do this if he was already on the hook? There is more to this than meets the eye.

Shame though that so many people here are ready to kick his ass to the curb for wanting to make more the $55 K's a year! He gave everything that he could last year, along with Nana. Was it good enough? We had guys like Usanov, Saric and Hscanovics, not regular starters, making around $100,000 a year. Ibrahim and White, $100,000 a year, Peterson at 125,000 and GARCIA at $190,000.

If he's not happy with the New Contract offer, why shouldn't he try to hammer out the issues before the season starts as opposed to carrying the problem into the regular season and in essence on to the field? I won't throw him under a bus till I know what's really going down!

Maybe they offered him a new contract because he threatened to hold out on the team...like he's currently doing now.

Alixir
03-02-2011, 06:32 PM
Cann is making around $56k per year. He was a solid player for us and now wants more money. Why is anybody surprised, looking for conspiracies or blaming Dero in this?
I have worked on contracts before and let me tell you...If I demanded my company give me a raise before my contract was up for renewal they would laugh histericaly at me.

OurGame
03-02-2011, 06:32 PM
What level?

Did you spend 6-8 hours a day with these guys? Did you travel every weekend, 10-12 hours away on a bus? Did you go to school with these guys?

Even at the pro level, did you train with these guys? Go out to dinner with them? Spend more time with them than your family?

Were you pissed off a teammate? The coach? Were a couple of you pissed off at a teammate or a coach? Did you guys talk about said teammate or said coach?

Did you get into fistfights with teammates?

Teams are like families. Even happy families have problems. A family member gets cancer, it affects the family.

A player with a shitty attitude might not infect the whole team, but he might infect one or two teammates who in effect, effect one or two more. Soon you get a split down the middle of the team especially when the team is doing shit. One group points the finger at the other saying "you're not pulling your weight" the other group says "we'll you just kiss the ass of the coach".

Fuck me. You don't have to a psychiatrist to know that.

The best players are the guys who are the character guys - which I go back to the arguments I've had in the past. Captain is just a word because you can't put "this guy has character" on a jersey. You don't have to be a captain to care about your teammates, your brothers. The captain is the guy who when things are going haywire, he says "guys, let's put the differences aside and go for some beers." Not, "fuck me, I'm out of here." He's the guy who when a new guy joins a team, goes to the new guy and says "welcome". When there's an issue he can go to the coach and the coach listens. Not the guy who just stands around and says "this doesn't affect me, what do I care? I'm getting my money."

I thought Cann was a character guy given the way he played and seemingly cared about the club. (I'll still reserve judgment until I know his exact contract status.) But if it's true that he's walking out on his contract, you know what, you ain't going to win with him. And even if you do, when the going gets tough, he's bailing. So fuck him.

I Disagree !!

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:34 PM
I guess I just believe that players ultimately make their own choices and that it's Cann's own attitude and own ethic that have led him to the decision he made. The fact that you're seriously suggesting that Cann is such a flake he's easily influenced by De Rosario is comical. If Cann made this choice it's because he was pre-disposed to it.

It's like saying the reason you murdered someone is because your friend murdered someone as well.

If logic like that stood up in court, everyone would get off Scot free for being unable to control themselves.

I'm not arguing that Cann was influenced by DeRo, just that it is possible for that to happen.

and the murder comparison....honestly

CretanBull
03-02-2011, 06:34 PM
I wonder if TFC regrets giving Cann the MVP award out of spite for DeRo?

Yohan
03-02-2011, 06:35 PM
again, MLS rarely renegotiates a contract while it's still got time to run...

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 06:35 PM
I'm not arguing that Cann was influenced by DeRo, just that it is possible for that to happen.

and the murder comparison....honestly

Hyperbole yes, but you could pick lesser crimes and state the same thing. Theft, street racing, etc.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 06:36 PM
I guess I just believe that players ultimately make their own choices and that it's Cann's own attitude and own ethic that have led him to the decision he made. The fact that you're seriously suggesting that Cann is such a flake he's easily influenced by De Rosario is comical. If Cann made this choice it's because he was pre-disposed to it.

It's like saying the reason you murdered someone is because your friend murdered someone as well.

If logic like that stood up in court, everyone would get off Scot free for being unable to control themselves.

No one is suggesting that DeRo is directly to blame. But Cann's agent sees DeRo whining about his contract - and it appears the club is caving in as it's been suggested a new deal will be worked out - Cann's agent thinks "wait a minute if it works for DeRo, it should work for my client. I mean he's not looking for a million dollars just a nice raise."

Alixir
03-02-2011, 06:36 PM
We do not re-negotiate with terrorists!

Nestease
03-02-2011, 06:36 PM
My prediction for tomorrow:

- Cann tells a local reporter he doesn't have a 4 year contract.
- TFC issue restatement of previous statement that contradicts everything from their initial statement.

menefreghista
03-02-2011, 06:38 PM
My prediction for tomorrow:

- Cann tells a local reporter he doesn't have a 4 year contract.
- TFC issue restatement of previous statement that contradicts everything from their initial statement.

LOL.

Its not like TFC can't afford to give Cann a decent raise. They must have a shit load of cap space available with barely any players on the roster.

MG42
03-02-2011, 06:41 PM
Hyperbole yes, but you could pick lesser crimes and state the same thing. Theft, street racing, etc.

a crime and a negative attitude spreading to others have nothing to do with one another, give it up, as will I.

jazzy
03-02-2011, 06:50 PM
Don't worry about the roster guys - TFC is going to have a promotion at the home opener where they select seat numbers and that person fills a spot on the bench!

Finally some serious thought, .....

ManUtd4ever
03-02-2011, 06:59 PM
I don't support any player under contract walking out on the team as a means of gaining leverage during contract negotiations. In my opinion, Adrian Cann is a reliable, defensive, centre back but his value in Toronto has been greatly exaggerated because of the lack of talent on the backline in recent years. He is replaceable, and should be made an example of to deter this type of BS from players in the future.

For the record, while I never agreed with DeRo's behavior in the past, Cann's act of public defiance is far worse. Cann has left the team at a critical point in the pre season with no intentions other than to force management's hand. DeRo left (eventually with permission) to go on trial with a storied club. Once Winter made it clear that he wouldn't grant approval for a loan, DeRo immediately reported to the club and has partaken in all of training camp despite ongoing contract negotiations.

I'm getting tired of the drama...

rocktml
03-02-2011, 07:06 PM
ugh here we go again......

Darlofletch
03-02-2011, 07:09 PM
well, I certainly have more sympathy with the whole "short career, have to make as much as they can when they can" argument for Cann than de ro.

very intrigued by the contract, it's the first i've heard about 4 years.

I'd want to know more about that and what they've offered him before I throw him under the bus like others have.

also amused that they gave him player of the year rather than de ro, and now he's doing the same thing as de ro.

all in all though, very depressing.

jazzy
03-02-2011, 07:10 PM
EDIT:

Nana is the next one as his contract expires at the end of the year but he becomes a free agent if he isn't signed by July.

He'll leave the shit show....he's been pretty fair and playing things up front for now.......but I think unless he's recognized for what he's worth......I think he'll leave........btw how can this friggin league survive paying regulars, very low yearly wages and the team should own the player not the league!...then TFC would have more power to keep or reject players....on their terms

brad
03-02-2011, 07:10 PM
I have worked on contracts before and let me tell you...If I demanded my company give me a raise before my contract was up for renewal they would laugh histericaly at me.

I don't doubt it, but it's also a pretty standard move for footballers.

FCC
03-02-2011, 07:21 PM
What you dont realize is that MLSE is a succesfully run business. They do dont care about winning, they do not care to please the players and they dont care about the fans bc we buy in to this promise of success. Do you not see how horrible these teams are (Leafs, Raptors, TFC)?

Im sure this poorly run management team has alot to do with the unhappiness of the players and leave them no choice but to do what they believe is fair. So if your going to throw someone under the bus, it should be those in power (MLSE) and ot the players.

Pachuco
03-02-2011, 07:22 PM
I too was under the impression that he was under a one year contract. There may have been a provision of some sort to revisit the terms of that contract after year one or if he met certain expectations though. the article does state that they offered Cann a NEW CONTRACT that he turned down.

Why did they do this if he was already on the hook? There is more to this than meets the eye.

Shame though that so many people here are ready to kick his ass to the curb for wanting to make more the $55 K's a year! He gave everything that he could last year, along with Nana. Was it good enough? We had guys like Usanov, Saric and Hscanovics, not regular starters, making around $100,000 a year. Ibrahim and White, $100,000 a year, Peterson at 125,000 and GARCIA at $190,000.

If he's not happy with the New Contract offer, why shouldn't he try to hammer out the issues before the season starts as opposed to carrying the problem into the regular season and in essence on to the field? I won't throw him under a bus till I know what's really going down!

Best post in this thread!

jazzy
03-02-2011, 07:34 PM
I too was under the impression that he was under a one year contract. There may have been a provision of some sort to revisit the terms of that contract after year one or if he met certain expectations though. the article does state that they offered Cann a NEW CONTRACT that he turned down.

Why did they do this if he was already on the hook? There is more to this than meets the eye.

Shame though that so many people here are ready to kick his ass to the curb for wanting to make more the $55 K's a year! He gave everything that he could last year, along with Nana. Was it good enough? We had guys like Usanov, Saric and Hscanovics, not regular starters, making around $100,000 a year. Ibrahim and White, $100,000 a year, Peterson at 125,000 and GARCIA at $190,000.

If he's not happy with the New Contract offer, why shouldn't he try to hammer out the issues before the season starts as opposed to carrying the problem into the regular season and in essence on to the field? I won't throw him under a bus till I know what's really going down!

Very good points on the $, paid to those not so worthy, if you've been nominated MVP, with a low pay scale, played your ass off, well...again the minimum yearly pay is far too low, ......we'll always have these problems, I say there should only single year contracts allowed when you are making under, a minimum of say $80,000/yr

Shakes McQueen
03-02-2011, 07:41 PM
Won't throw him under the bus until I get a better idea of how exactly his contract works, and why the club would be making offers to him if he is allegedly signed for four years.

If it is as it appears though, I say let him sit out the year. Cann was pretty good, but he is also replaceable.

Again though - need more information.

- Scott

Whoop
03-02-2011, 07:43 PM
kaos' post makes sense IF Cann doesn't have a contract.

I have less issue with Cann's actions IF Cann doesn't have a contract. But if he does then it is a douche move IMO.

But it also says something about the management (or likely the media dept.) If as supporters we're questioniing the terms of Cann's contract status. It seems I'm not alone in thinking Cann had a one year deal that expired at the end of the 2010 season.

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 07:46 PM
More proof that players play for money and not for people's fanciful notions of loyalty.


I don't know where people get their flights of fancy. We tried telling them ALL players are like this and nobody believed us. Somehow they think other players are different. They're not. I really don't know why people are getting upset. Cann and the team are obviously in the middle of negotiations. The team is obviously willing to reward him with a new contract mid-term of his old one (something else people around here deny all the time) but obviously they are not offering enough. Him and the team will eventually work it out. What's the big deal about this? This is life in soccer people. What rock have you been under?

kaos197O
03-02-2011, 07:49 PM
kaos' post makes sense IF Cann doesn't have a contract.

I have less issue with Cann's actions IF Cann doesn't have a contract. But if he does then it is a douche move IMO.

But it also says something about the management (or likely the media dept.) If as supporters we're questioniing the terms of Cann's contract status. It seems I'm not alone in thinking Cann had a one year deal that expired at the end of the 2010 season.
If Cann DOES have a contract, Why did FO offer him a NEW contract? IF they re-opened negotiations (which they did by offering him a NEW contract), they meaning FO, then anything is game, and no it is not a douche move on his part! It's smart.

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 07:51 PM
If Cann DOES have a contract, Why did FO offer him a NEW contract? IF they re-opened negotiations, they meaning FO, then anything is game, and no it is not a douche move on his part! It's smart.


No it's not. It's douchy. Because of some unwritten rule somewhere that anyone who tries to renegotiate is a douche, period.

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 07:52 PM
Either way...maybe some of you guys should have some avatars drawn up with dollar signs in Cann's eyes as well.

:thumbsup:

Stryker
03-02-2011, 07:53 PM
Winter's reality has probley set in for him right about now. He's inherited a team of poor and or disgruntled players along with salary cap issues and bosses and office staff who know fuck all about football but all want to have an influence on the team.
My prediction, Winter quits before the start of the 2012 season.

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 07:55 PM
Oh and this somehow being DeRo's fault? Classic. :smilielol5:

Yes...DeRo created all professional athletes in his mold. Too bad they only pick up his bad habits and not his good ones like winning championships.

Shakes McQueen
03-02-2011, 08:03 PM
I'm awash in a sea of passive-aggression.

- Scott

OurGame
03-02-2011, 08:04 PM
I wonder if TFC regrets giving Cann the MVP award out of spite for DeRo?


hahaha , i really never thought about that ..

he scored a tonne last year :)

Whoop
03-02-2011, 08:05 PM
If Cann DOES have a contract, Why did FO offer him a NEW contract? IF they re-opened negotiations (which they did by offering him a NEW contract), they meaning FO, then anything is game, and no it is not a douche move on his part! It's smart.

It doesn't make sense. That's what I mean.

You don't hold out - which Cann is in effect doing - when you have a contract as the team has the recourse to suspend you.

I mean then its open season on holding out, which is what DeRo had threatened to do but the club said it would let him sit for the year if he did that.

That's why there's the confusion. Especially given the fact that almost everyone here was thinking he had a one year deal.


And who would be stupid enough to sign a four year contract at pretty much the league minimum?

TFCDP
03-02-2011, 08:06 PM
What the funkin fuck! I suppose it was getting a little too quiet in TFC land.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 08:07 PM
No it's not. It's douchy. Because of some unwritten rule somewhere that anyone who tries to renegotiate is a douche, period.

It is if you have a pre-existing contract.

Its less douchy when you have none.

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 08:14 PM
I'm awash in a sea of passive-aggression.

- Scott


:lol:

Sorry...I am literally sitting here laughing at these developments considering the positions most people took on Cann vs DeRo. I just wish people would open their eyes and just realize pro athletes are pro athletes, regardless of who they are and what they earn. They're all trying to score a better deal for themselves and quite frankly I don't blame them. People getting all hurt feelings because these athletes operate in a tough world where you have to be a hard-ass in order not to get screwed and earn a relatively decent living need to just watch the game and not worry so much about the financial stuff if they're not going to understand the world they're commenting on.

It's just ironic that it turned out to be Cann that proved me right.

I will try to tone down the passive aggression. :D

Suds
03-02-2011, 08:15 PM
Comparing DeRo to Cann and how to deal with their situations is absurd. Cann may have won the MVP but he's nowhere even close to the player DeRo is and what he means to the team.

I was not a supporter of DeRo and how his situation went down. But in that situation I can see people getting passionate about the debate. Losing him would have been huge for the team.

Seriously, Take Cann off this exalted status. His an average defender who had a decent year in an average league. He may be sitting out for more money but he could be sitting out for a long time. He's easily replaceable. He has nowhere near the leverage DeRo did.

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 08:16 PM
It is if you have a pre-existing contract.

Its less douchy when you have none.

:lol:

I dunno if you realize the essence of your post is that it's always douchy regardless?

FCC
03-02-2011, 08:25 PM
:lol:

Sorry...I am literally sitting here laughing at these developments considering the positions most people took on Cann vs DeRo. I just wish people would open their eyes and just realize pro athletes are pro athletes, regardless of who they are and what they earn. They're all trying to score a better deal for themselves and quite frankly I don't blame them. People getting all hurt feelings because these athletes operate in a tough world where you have to be a hard-ass in order not to get screwed and earn a relatively decent living need to just watch the game and not worry so much about the financial stuff if they're not going to understand the world they're commenting on.

It's just ironic that it turned out to be Cann that proved me right.

I will try to tone down the passive aggression. :D


Agree!

v00d00daddy
03-02-2011, 08:27 PM
No it's not. It's douchy. Because of some unwritten rule somewhere that anyone who tries to renegotiate is a douche, period.

its not a rule...its an opinion...that many people share

if your answer to it is: "hey, its the way football is" then fine. your choice

if youre part of the mechanism that encourages pro athletes not to honour the contracts theyve signed...well...then youre part of the problem.

if, of course, you think its a problem lol

either way...it doesnt bode well for the start of the season

Whoop
03-02-2011, 08:29 PM
No.

LIke I said, IF Cann does not have a contract then I understand the tactic. And if that's the case its not a RE-negotiation its a negotiation. It is a douchebag move to hold out if you have a pre-existing contract.

I mean name me the last time any team in, say North America, had one guy hold out when he had a contract and another guy threaten to hold out when he had a contract in one season? I can't think of one instance. I mean you might one on occasion, but two? And in one season?

Its not common practice, in sports, to hold out when you have a contract. Those who do tend to be considered douchebags. Usually the guys who do hold out tend to be NFL rookies who have an inflated sense of worth and don't endear themselves to their teammates.

And I know what athletes are like so I'm not hurt. In the end they're commodities. They know it management knows it. Some fans know it. From my perspective its just a case that I'd rather not have douchebags on my team.

And yes, you can win without douchebags because I know someone will start trumpeting a player's CV ad nauseum.

MG42
03-02-2011, 08:33 PM
http://thedopereport.com/photos/110-zoolander_mugatu_crazy_pills.jpg

Suds
03-02-2011, 08:34 PM
^^
cann I get some of those?

Pookie
03-02-2011, 08:36 PM
What's good for the goose, I guess.

Herein lies the problem with not stamping out DeRo's tantrum. Why can't other players take the same course of action, albeit on a smaller scale?

I fully expect to see DeRo supporters jumping in to defend Cann's right to renegotiate his value mid-contract. Anything else would be hypocrisy, no?

FCC
03-02-2011, 08:38 PM
No it's not. It's douchy. Because of some unwritten rule somewhere that anyone who tries to renegotiate is a douche, period.

There is no douche move here whatsoever!

He is under contract for 4 years and if he sits out and doesnt want to play then its his loss. Not only will he lose his salary but he would not be able to play for any other team as TFC owns his rights. Im sure he is well aware of the situation and stands by his decision. Good for him to have the balls big enough to stand up to what he feels is right.

Pookie
03-02-2011, 08:39 PM
No.

LIke I said, IF Cann does not have a contract then I understand the tactic. And if that's the case its not a RE-negotiation its a negotiation. It is a douchebag move to hold out if you have a pre-existing contract.



Well, the quote on TFC's website is:

“We are disappointed that Adrian has decided to return home at this time,” said Toronto FC Head Coach and Technical Director Aron Winter. “Adrian is heading into the second year of a four year contract. We are currently in discussions with the League regarding the situation and are assessing the options available to us.”

What I don't get is why they offered him a new contract if he is in fact under contract for 3 more years. Sounds like the club is opening up the deal, not Cann. But then again, there isn't much info to go on.

ManUtd4ever
03-02-2011, 08:55 PM
In any case, even if it's a one year deal that hasn't expired yet, Cann is still under contract, and should have demonstrated a level of professionalism by remaining with the club throughout training camp.

wzhxvy
03-02-2011, 08:59 PM
Send the caveman home...I mean this guy has one good year and now this...disgusting.

Shakes McQueen
03-02-2011, 09:00 PM
No.

LIke I said, IF Cann does not have a contract then I understand the tactic. And if that's the case its not a RE-negotiation its a negotiation. It is a douchebag move to hold out if you have a pre-existing contract.

I mean name me the last time any team in, say North America, had one guy hold out when he had a contract and another guy threaten to hold out when he had a contract in one season? I can't think of one instance. I mean you might one on occasion, but two? And in one season?

Its not common practice, in sports, to hold out when you have a contract. Those who do tend to be considered douchebags. Usually the guys who do hold out tend to be NFL rookies who have an inflated sense of worth and don't endear themselves to their teammates.

And I know what athletes are like so I'm not hurt. In the end they're commodities. They know it management knows it. Some fans know it. From my perspective its just a case that I'd rather not have douchebags on my team.

And yes, you can win without douchebags because I know someone will start trumpeting a player's CV ad nauseum.

It heartens me to know that I can leave this website for half an hour or so, and trust you to keep fighting the good fight, Vic. :D

- Scott

Suds
03-02-2011, 09:09 PM
It heartens me to know that I can leave this website for half an hour or so, and trust you to keep fighting the good fight, Vic. :D

- Scott

What on earth could you possibly be doing for a half hour or so of your life other than be on this site? :)

Nestease
03-02-2011, 09:09 PM
Interesting tidbit from Wheelers article:

"After prolonged contract negotiations, Cann signed a four-year contract two games into last season."

torontocelt
03-02-2011, 09:10 PM
So was it Cann who was the bad influence and cancer in the dressing room all along? I overheard a couple of old woman at the bus stop who alleged that he has been in DeRo's ear for years and it escalated a lot more once he joined TFC. It seems Cann may have used DeRo as a scapegoat to get wages increased all round and now DeRo has taken the wrath of the fans and media he is now making his own play. Very strategic, very cunning Mr Cann.

Suds
03-02-2011, 09:12 PM
Send the caveman home...I mean this guy has one good year and now this...disgusting.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_F6GDmayXGnY/SUQD_V76obI/AAAAAAAAAAU/YjsR7uffr_Q/s320/geico+caveman.bmp :D

torontocelt
03-02-2011, 09:14 PM
If DeRo is known as MeRo then can Cann be known now as Canncer?

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 09:16 PM
So, if Cann is known as the Model Player who fights for the badge, works hard, keeps quiet... doesn't that mean our Captain Dwayne De Rosario is also a model player? Anyone willing to confirm my suspicions about his model player status?

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 09:19 PM
Also, who will be booing Cann when he steps on the field when/if this worked out?

Sweeper
03-02-2011, 09:22 PM
I think we need a poll.

bgnewf
03-02-2011, 09:25 PM
I have been a noted critic of DeRo and his antics for a while now, but to the man's credit he is not holding out. He is not flying home. He is with his new teammates working hard and getting ready for the new season. I at least will give him credit where due for that.

And on the Cann thing this is way too early to pas any judgments. Was this a mutual decision? Was TFC low balling him in contract talks? Is Cann being too unreasonable? Is the precursor to a trade? Does Winter even think Cann is the type of player for his system?

Way too many questions and far too few answers at this point folks.

Suds
03-02-2011, 09:25 PM
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1258-Adrian-Cann-leaves-TFC-training-camp&

Check out Ben Rycroft's report on this. Provides some background and context to Cann's situation.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 09:27 PM
I have been a noted critic of DeRo and his antics for a while now, but to the man's credit he is not holding out. He is not flying home. He is with his new teammates working hard and getting ready for the new season. I at least will give him credit where due for that.

And on the Cann thing this is way too early to pas any judgments. Was this a mutual decision? Was TFC low balling him in contract talks? Is Cann being too unreasonable? Is the precursor to a trade? Does Winter even think Cann is the type of player for his system?

Way too many questions and far too few answers at this point folks.

For many people here, this isn't a problem. Cann signed a four year contract. He's renegotiating with the club, and the club offered him a better contract. Cann is obligated to accept without negotiating according to many people here.

kdzb
03-02-2011, 09:29 PM
We have to Thank Derosario for setting the example for this kind of behavior :facepalm:

RedsYNWA
03-02-2011, 09:31 PM
I think JDG should renegotiate his contract

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 09:33 PM
We have to Thank Derosario for setting the example for this kind of behavior :facepalm:

Because Adrian Cann is completely incapable of making decisions about how he behaves. And because De Rosario chose not to play and hold out on his contract right?

Oh wait...

Get real. Cann's a grown adult. The decisions he makes are his own, he can either own them, or he can't. De Rosario is not a factor here.

kdzb
03-02-2011, 09:34 PM
now I'm confused what to do when they announce their names over the PA at BMO when they do the starting linupe - should I cheer when I hear Cann and Dero's names or BOO them?

Batman
03-02-2011, 09:40 PM
I think JDG should renegotiate his contract

well actually, if he'd just spread around a few hundred k it could solve a few problems.:D

Nestease
03-02-2011, 09:43 PM
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1258-Adrian-Cann-leaves-TFC-training-camp&

Check out Ben Rycroft's report on this. Provides some background and context to Cann's situation.

Interesting article. Apparently Cann went into negotiations last year without an agent. First Wave got mixed into it and took an agent fee and Cann was against it. He couldn't do much because he had just left his previous team to come to Toronto and was without club and options. Sounds like typical MLSE/Mo behind the scenes bullshit.

kdzb
03-02-2011, 09:45 PM
Because Adrian Cann is completely incapable of making decisions about how he behaves. And because De Rosario chose not to play and hold out on his contract right?

Oh wait...

Get real. Cann's a grown adult. The decisions he makes are his own, he can either own them, or he can't. De Rosario is not a factor here.

I guess you know by now who is the Cancer or the Bad Apple in TFC's locker room.
If Mr Dero didn't show his teamates that he can bend the rules with the FO just because they don't have any other options, this story with Cann will not happen but because it happened already with Dero and our defence at the moment still look like shit, then Mr Cann will think that he is the best option in TFC's back four why not try a little blackmail with the FO...after all, we are only two weeks away from the start of the season :facepalm:

Mark TFC
03-02-2011, 09:48 PM
If DeRo is known as MeRo then can Cann be known now as Canncer?

Drop it the DeRo thing already.

jloome
03-02-2011, 10:11 PM
:lol: They're all trying to score a better deal for themselves and quite frankly I don't blame them. . :D

You've never struck me as a bad guy Roogsy, but that`s a contemptibly amoral position.

Let's put what you just said in terms that reflect that actual morals of the position, given that he has three seasons left on his deal.

"Contracts are valueless. You shouldn't have to live up to them. You should be able to sign a deal and then walk away from it whenever you feel like it to leverage a better deal."

This kind of anti-social behaviour, endemic to the flaws in capitalism and reflected in the behaviour of leaders in both business and politics, is at root simply a consequence of an unmoderated social system that continues to value ethics of power and dominance, left over from much older, smaller tribal cultures, over rational investigation.

TFC OZZ
03-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Either way...maybe some of you guys should have some avatars drawn up with dollar signs in Cann's eyes as well.

:thumbsup:

+1 hahaha

McBrace
03-02-2011, 10:16 PM
Could it be TFC opened up negotiations prior to winter and co coming on board? Cann currently doesn't rate highly with the new regime? They thought they could him sign for pennies, until the right player comes along?


What a gong show!!

Blowing Bubbles
03-02-2011, 10:18 PM
this is the downside of not making an example out of DeRo. If you weren't going to ship him out of town he should of at least been dressed down and shamed publicly.

When you acquiesce to 1 player the lineup is going to form quickly.

Super
03-02-2011, 10:19 PM
Ugh, this is hardly the news I was hoping to hear this close to the beginning of our season. I can't say I blame the guy though - he's only making 60 grand per year, and that's far from the money DeRo is making. Regardless, I'm not pleased.

DichioTFC
03-02-2011, 10:23 PM
Either way...maybe some of you guys should have some avatars drawn up with dollar signs in Cann's eyes as well.

:thumbsup:

LOL in due time (too bad he didn't do it publicly, eh?). We'll see how this plays out, he might get photoshopped.


Also, who will be booing Cann when he steps on the field when/if this worked out?

As it currently stands, I will. Hopefully it gets resolved and he's still on the team (or traded to the Whitecaps), but the damage is already done.


I think we need a poll.

Too soon, give it a couple days for people to digest it.


I have been a noted critic of DeRo and his antics for a while now, but to the man's credit he is not holding out. He is not flying home. He is with his new teammates working hard and getting ready for the new season. I at least will give him credit where due for that.

And on the Cann thing this is way too early to pas any judgments. Was this a mutual decision? Was TFC low balling him in contract talks? Is Cann being too unreasonable? Is the precursor to a trade? Does Winter even think Cann is the type of player for his system?

Way too many questions and far too few answers at this point folks.

Spot-on. I was a big critic of DeRo as well, and while this doesn't vindicate Dwayne, it shows me that despite his contract disputes, he worked his ass off and was a respectable face for the franchise.


Drop it the DeRo thing already.

Exactly. This has little to do with DeRo. Even the locker chemistry argument means that its bigger than one player.

I blame it on MoJo's Curse. He's still kicking us in the balls from beyond the ocean. Fuck MoJo.

bman27
03-02-2011, 10:26 PM
Interesting article. Apparently Cann went into negotiations last year without an agent. First Wave got mixed into it and took an agent fee and Cann was against it. He couldn't do much because he had just left his previous team to come to Toronto and was without club and options. Sounds like typical MLSE/Mo behind the scenes bullshit.

Very typical Mo/ First wave complete fuck up of a contract. anyways it sounds with that story, from what was understood Adrian loves being here, I don't see the point in walking out in the second year of your contract. does walking out really give the team more inclination to give you a raise? if you are a pending free agent fine, you have options, but throwing all your cards on the table seems like a desperate move for Cann at this time. there is somthing else here yet to be reveled...

Blowing Bubbles
03-02-2011, 10:27 PM
Him and the team will eventually work it out. What's the big deal about this? This is life in soccer people. What rock have you been under?

If a player shits the bed after signing a new contract, would you support a club being able to suspend the player without pay until he agrees to a cramdown on his contract such that his pay reflects his production?

somehow i doubt it.

That's the problem. If breaking your contract to negotiate a new one at higher $$$ is the norm, but you can never do the opposite ....... how the fuck is that sustainable in a cap world?

RicoSuave44
03-02-2011, 10:30 PM
FML!

DichioTFC
03-02-2011, 10:34 PM
Very typical Mo/ First wave complete fuck up of a contract. anyways it sounds with that story, from what was understood Adrian loves being here, I don't see the point in walking out in the second year of your contract. does walking out really give the team more inclination to give you a raise? if you are a pending free agent fine, you have options, but throwing all your cards on the table seems like a desperate move for Cann at this time. there is somthing else here yet to be reveled...

I would really like to see what the sides were negotiating for. I would understand Cann leaving if they offered him less than what he was currently making, or a back-loaded contract. Like Newf wrote on his blog, there's more than meets the eye.

Darlofletch
03-02-2011, 10:37 PM
FML!

you mean FMLSE!

ExiledRed
03-02-2011, 10:38 PM
yep, at 55k you ask for a raise, and if youre declined, you go find another job. He's got fuckall to lose by playing hardball.

Pookie
03-02-2011, 10:46 PM
If a player shits the bed after signing a new contract, would you support a club being able to suspend the player without pay until he agrees to a cramdown on his contract such that his pay reflects his production?

somehow i doubt it.

That's the problem. If breaking your contract to negotiate a new one at higher $$$ is the norm, but you can never do the opposite ....... how the fuck is that sustainable in a cap world?

It isn't sustainable.

I like Cann but I can't support the idea of a player holding out when they are under contract. What still puzzles me is why is this deal being renegotiated in the first place? Who initiated that process?

In the absence of a "restricted free agency-like system", with arbitration rights in his future, he and others may feel trapped. Still, unless you are prepared to give back money to the club if performance declines, you can't be supported for playing holdout.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 10:48 PM
Now I understand why Cann has such a shitty deal.

Why would you sign for FOUR years at such a low wage?!?

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 10:52 PM
If a player shits the bed after signing a new contract, would you support a club being able to suspend the player without pay until he agrees to a cramdown on his contract such that his pay reflects his production?

somehow i doubt it.

That's the problem. If breaking your contract to negotiate a new one at higher $$$ is the norm, but you can never do the opposite ....... how the fuck is that sustainable in a cap world?


Being as the MLS has a CBA similar to the NFL where many if not most contracts are not guaranteed for their whole terms, we are talking about players who if they don't perform will indeed find themselves out of a job. People run around on this website acting like once the team agrees to a contract, they are held to it for the whole term. The CBA still favours the owners, not the players. Therefore, players are obligated to take harder stands simply to protect themselves.

bman27
03-02-2011, 10:53 PM
yep, at 55k you ask for a raise, and if youre declined, you go find another job. He's got fuckall to lose by playing hardball.

That works well If You are In your final year of a contract, but when you are a player who, quite frankly is coming off of only one good year in your only year in the MLS,If you break your contract where would he go? you've played most of your career in the USL, He had his European Chance and didn't stick, is he really going to make much more playing for Montreal this season at this point? I Don't see him playing anywhere else, and I don't see the mls letting him move to another team.

nickio
03-02-2011, 10:54 PM
I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS! People are criticizing a player whose career is on the backend- he's got what 5-6 years left?? He is not far past his prime, and he's making 65k a year- AS A STARTING CB in MLS?? People make way more sitting behind a desk, along with their 100's of coworkers with little competition for their spots- whose career lasts 40 years at least- and they dont run the risk of breaking a leg or suffering a concussion everytime they come to work.

Blame MLS and MLSE for letting it get to this. How can you blame a player who makes that little?! I feel so bad for professional football players in Canada. It's not just unfair- life can be like that (I KNOW). BUT THIS IS COMPLETELY RIDICOULOUS!!!These guys should be making at least 200k-300k for the span and risk of their careers.

Can you imagine you have to carpool with your wife on game day because you can't afford 2 cars, making $65k a year thats REALITY in Canada. Professional athlete...

just unbelievable..

And even if some of you think you have a point, well I've got one thing to say then- Nick Garcia - 200k a year!

Pookie
03-02-2011, 10:54 PM
The new CBA provided for guaranteed contracts for players with 3 years of MLS experience.

MG42
03-02-2011, 10:55 PM
You've never struck me as a bad guy Roogsy, but that`s a contemptibly amoral position.

Let's put what you just said in terms that reflect that actual morals of the position, given that he has three seasons left on his deal.

"Contracts are valueless. You shouldn't have to live up to them. You should be able to sign a deal and then walk away from it whenever you feel like it to leverage a better deal."

This kind of anti-social behaviour, endemic to the flaws in capitalism and reflected in the behaviour of leaders in both business and politics, is at root simply a consequence of an unmoderated social system that continues to value ethics of power and dominance, left over from much older, smaller tribal cultures, over rational investigation.

nice

Whoop
03-02-2011, 11:02 PM
Being as the MLS has a CBA similar to the NFL where many if not most contracts are not guaranteed for their whole terms, we are talking about players who if they don't perform will indeed find themselves out of a job. People run around on this website acting like once the team agrees to a contract, they are held to it for the whole term. The CBA still favours the owners, not the players. Therefore, players are obligated to take harder stands simply to protect themselves.

Won't disagree about the CBA.

In reality that should be up to the MLSPA, not individual players, to take a harder stance.

The MLSPA blew their chance last year. Now they have to wait until the next CBA negotiation.

bman27
03-02-2011, 11:05 PM
So, if Cann is known as the Model Player who fights for the badge, works hard, keeps quiet... doesn't that mean our Captain Dwayne De Rosario is also a model player? Anyone willing to confirm my suspicions about his model player status?

i think your misunderstanding

they are saying that adrian is a "model" player :cool:

http://www.smgmodels.com/models/model.php?modelid=1373

DichioTFC
03-02-2011, 11:05 PM
Being as the MLS has a CBA similar to the NFL where many if not most contracts are not guaranteed for their whole terms, we are talking about players who if they don't perform will indeed find themselves out of a job. People run around on this website acting like once the team agrees to a contract, they are held to it for the whole term. The CBA still favours the owners, not the players. Therefore, players are obligated to take harder stands simply to protect themselves.

I'll grant that the CBA favors owners, but shouldn't the players' harder stands be made prior to signing? Trialing in Europe (a more lucrative market in some places) and South America are always options for players that don't find TFC offers acceptable (as I'm sure Cann didn't, considering he signed two games into the season).

TFCREDNWHITE
03-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Fack. I'm friends with adrian.....but damn, now we are really screwed......the salary cap goes up
And everyone wants more money.....

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 11:07 PM
You've never struck me as a bad guy Roogsy, but that`s a contemptibly amoral position.

Let's put what you just said in terms that reflect that actual morals of the position, given that he has three seasons left on his deal.

"Contracts are valueless. You shouldn't have to live up to them. You should be able to sign a deal and then walk away from it whenever you feel like it to leverage a better deal."

This kind of anti-social behaviour, endemic to the flaws in capitalism and reflected in the behaviour of leaders in both business and politics, is at root simply a consequence of an unmoderated social system that continues to value ethics of power and dominance, left over from much older, smaller tribal cultures, over rational investigation.

Two things to this Jeremy. In a perfect world, this stuff wouldn't happen. Fair contracts would be awarded and contractees would fufill their entire obligation.

The problem here is that organizations hold players over barrels and force them to sign deals they don't like. People around here talk a big game but put in the same position, they too would probably fold under the pressure to sign a deal they would be unhappy with. It's not just DeRo or Cann but many, many players within MLS that find themselves in that position. So to begin with, organizations themselves are not acting in a "moral" fashion.

Therefore, what option do players have? Once they have some leverage, they HAVE to act on it. To not do so is to do themselves a disservice.

At the end of the day, there is no quid pro quo. Players that extend themselves to organizations will only find themselves taken advantage of, not reciprocated. And players know this from hard experience. So why would we begrudge them for having to play a game that has been setup and run by the league and owners? They have no other choice.

I simply fall on the side of players. All players. This position is not new nor was it exclusive to DeRo. It has been my position even before the last CBA negotiations. People made it out to be a "DeRo fanboy" situation but that was simply ignorant.

We should accept the reality of the world we live in and most importantly the world these players are forced to work in.

Damien
03-02-2011, 11:09 PM
The MLS needs to step in here and force players to play out contracts in which they're ALREADY SIGNED.

Or maybe even work out something where if a player tries to pull this shit he's banned from the pro game for the length of his contract.

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 11:11 PM
Won't disagree about the CBA.

In reality that should be up to the MLSPA, not individual players, to take a harder stance.

The MLSPA blew their chance last year. Now they have to wait until the next CBA negotiation.

Ridiculous position. So if someone else won't stand up for you, you shouldn't stand up for yourself?

Whoop
03-02-2011, 11:13 PM
My point, is because if you stand up for yourself, the teams have enough leverage to squash you.

Kooper
03-02-2011, 11:13 PM
I don't know where people get their flights of fancy. We tried telling them ALL players are like this and nobody believed us. Somehow they think other players are different. They're not. I really don't know why people are getting upset. Cann and the team are obviously in the middle of negotiations. The team is obviously willing to reward him with a new contract mid-term of his old one (something else people around here deny all the time) but obviously they are not offering enough. Him and the team will eventually work it out. What's the big deal about this? This is life in soccer people. What rock have you been under?

I am sure my post will make Roogsy's head explode.

I do believe that once you sign a contract you should honour it but in this case TFC should (does not have to) work with Cann and Attakora on a contract extention.

Cann's situation is totally different than that of Dero. Caan is making close to the league minimum vs other players in the league and Dero is paid on par with other players in the league for his contribution. Cann is making close to the league minimum and played in almost every game for TFC last year, was team MVP and along wtih Attakora, Frei and JDG worked to reduce TFC's goals against from 1.38 to 1.19 per game.

TFC is holding their ground because they have 3 players in a similar situation. If they renegotiate with Cann they have to renegotiate Attakora and Frei.

bignickel
03-02-2011, 11:15 PM
Funny how when preki got the boot he murmured something to the tune of how the Canadian boys were the headaches. I really thought he was just bitter. Boy did he ever call it!

Whoop
03-02-2011, 11:16 PM
TFC is holding their ground because they have 3 players in a similar situation. If they renegotiate with Cann they have to renegotiate Attakora and Frei.

Bang on.

Though Attakora's contract expires at the end of this season so TFC will have to offer him a new contract soon.

Hey, if Cann's tactic works, I expect every player on the team to pull the same stunt when they want a new contract.

Damien
03-02-2011, 11:17 PM
TFC is holding their ground because they have 3 players in a similar situation. If they renegotiate with Cann they have to renegotiate Attakora and Frei.

Exactly... don't open a CANN of worms.

We're probably not competing for the MLS cup this year anyway. I'd tell these guys to suck it up and play or sit the fuck out.

Keep the ball rolling on the Academy.

Don Julio
03-02-2011, 11:27 PM
What an awful contract he signed in the first place. I doubt it was the club that was pushing for a 4 year deal for an unproven 30 year old, that was probably terrible judgement from his agent.

Probably the same agent that has given him this awful advice. Even if this does get sorted out he has killed any chance of any endorsement type deals in the future as he will now be disliked.

His pro career is over if TFC chooses right now. He can't play for another team until 2014.

The club probably decided to work on a raise for him because they recognized the deal was lopsided, and wanted to keep him happy. Strictly speaking, however, doing so would be purely out of good will.

Let's not forget that it is a contract with the league he is breaking, however, and negotiations up until now along with how this is handled going forward are not solely controlled by the team.

JonO
03-02-2011, 11:28 PM
The problem here is that organizations hold players over barrels and force them to sign deals they don't like.
Just curious how TFC had Cann over a barrel when he signed the 4-year contract he signed? Honestly....

ag futbol
03-02-2011, 11:29 PM
You've never struck me as a bad guy Roogsy, but that`s a contemptibly amoral position.

Let's put what you just said in terms that reflect that actual morals of the position, given that he has three seasons left on his deal.

"Contracts are valueless. You shouldn't have to live up to them. You should be able to sign a deal and then walk away from it whenever you feel like it to leverage a better deal."

I disagree with this. Reality is contracts are complex, the interpretation of the terms and conditions are ever evolving and what often doesn't make it to the paper takes on a life of its own.

Does nobody remember where MLS has used contracts to suit their own purposes? eg. "one million dollars super liga prize money"... something like 200k of which actually went to the MLS players purses while the MFL teams were going to divy it up 100% to their guys? Meanwhile MLS takes 800k of "prize money" and moves it from the left pocket to the right one.

I really doubt his contract is guaranteed year-over-year, despite MLS using some slippery wording to claim it's four years long. If Cann had some bad luck last year he easily could have been Gomez. I don't blame him for bargaining hard.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 11:32 PM
Forgot.

The league can't be happy with the situation transpiring in Toronto in regards to these contracts, hold out threats and re-negotiations.

Roogsy
03-02-2011, 11:33 PM
Forgot.

The league can't be happy with the situation transpiring in Toronto in regards to these contracts, hold out threats and re-negotiations.


Is this something new???

It's life in profesional sports! Geez Vic, don't act like things are rosy everywhere else except in Toronto. This is business. There are negotiations of all sorts going on with every team in the league.

If THIS stresses them out, they're in the wrong business.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 11:36 PM
Is this something new???

It's life in profesional sports! Geez Vic, don't act like things are rosy everywhere else except in Toronto. This is business. There are negotiations of all sorts going on with every team in the league.

If THIS stresses them out, they're in the wrong business.

Lol, of course it stresses them out. That's why they need a chorus of people (read: fanboys) to defend their backwards labour policies which hold back the quality of players in this league and the pay those players receive for their services to the clubs.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 11:39 PM
How many hold outs have there been in the MLS over the last few years? MLB? NBA? NHL?

Other than the NFL, holdouts aren't as common as you think. But that's why there will be lockout in the NFL shortly.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 11:43 PM
I'm not defending the MLS. I agree the salary cap should be increased, but again, that responsibility lies on the MLSPA as collectively to fight for that.

I mean the MLS isn't going to that on their own.

My stance has been always been that I don't like douchebags on my teams. Unfortunately, these days you might have to accept one or two of them, but I'm not supporting them, I'm supporting the team.

DichioTFC
03-02-2011, 11:46 PM
Just throwing this out there - I don't have a problem with Cann's right to privately protest his contract - I support him trying to make as much money as he can. I just don't think he should have left the team, days before the start of the season.

ag futbol
03-02-2011, 11:47 PM
Just curious how TFC had Cann over a barrel when he signed the 4-year contract he signed? Honestly....
Totality of that is kind of harsh, isn't it?

This is a competitive business. Guy earns 65k per year. If he plays poorly, he can be gone as soon as one year. If he plays well there is zero upside to that contract. He maybe gets one more deal earning around the same rate of pay (because he's then on the downhill in his mid 30's and he's done). Our hero then gets to make a career change in his mid 30's using the massive safety net that the 65 thousand dollar year salary will provide for him.

So for trying to put together a better situation for himself than THAT he gets thrown under the bus?

Whoop
03-02-2011, 11:48 PM
^^
You know the risks when you decide to become a professional athlete.

Now imagine being an amateur athlete, whoa boy.

Auzzy
03-02-2011, 11:49 PM
That works well If You are In your final year of a contract, but when you are a player who, quite frankly is coming off of only one good year in your only year in the MLS,If you break your contract where would he go? you've played most of your career in the USL, He had his European Chance and didn't stick, is he really going to make much more playing for Montreal this season at this point? I Don't see him playing anywhere else, and I don't see the mls letting him move to another team.

I think he meant, he can just find another job outside of footy. There are lots of other jobs that pay alot more than $65k, at least after a few years of experience, and that will allow you a longer career with less risk of career-ending injuries, less travel, etc etc.

Not saying I'm taking a side here; just explaining. We don't know the full story. Do other MLS teams have this much drama? I certainly don't hear as much from other teams. Let's hope this is some leftover bad blood & problematic contracts from the MoJo days, and that we may have less of this in the future....? Of course the salary cap is always tight, so it's never going to be easy -- still, hoping we can have a below-average amount of drama some day.

TFCRegina
03-02-2011, 11:49 PM
Just throwing this out there - I don't have a problem with Cann's right to privately protest his contract - I support him trying to make as much money as he can. I just don't think he should have left the team, days before the start of the season.

I agree, the optics aren't great but he has a right to negotiate (publically and privately, it's his choice). They weren't great with De Ro either. It's Cann's option. The difference though, is that De Ro is significantly less replaceable than Cann. So I can't see TFC bending on this one.

Whoop
03-02-2011, 11:51 PM
Why is there so much drama with this particular team? That was my point.

Blame goes to both sides.

Someone has to break the cycle.

And it's going to take someone to take a hard stance.

ManUtd4ever
03-02-2011, 11:53 PM
TFC has shown a willingness to reopen the contracts of both DeRo and Cann despite the fact that management wasn't contractually obligated to do so. Cann wasn't happy with the offer so he had no recourse other than to walk? There is no excuse for his actions unless he genuinely wants to leave the organization.

It's just unfortunate that TFC has lost 2 defenders in 48 hours on an already suspect backline.

DichioTFC
03-02-2011, 11:53 PM
I agree, the optics aren't great but he has a right to negotiate (publically and privately, it's his choice). They weren't great with De Ro either. It's Cann's option. The difference though, is that De Ro is significantly less replaceable than Cann. So I can't see TFC bending on this one.

I think its the optics that are more troubling than anything else. Here's hoping it gets resolved amicably in due time. But from the looks at Winter's statement, I think the "options" he's looking at are suspension or release.

Also, I agree that Cann is 'replaceable', but I don't think the new management team will be able to find an equitable replacement in time considering their lack of knowledge of the North American soccer market.

ag futbol
03-03-2011, 12:06 AM
^^
You know the risks when you decide to become a professional athlete.

Now imagine being an amateur athlete, whoa boy.
I really fail to see how you're coming at this one.

What does it mean to be an "amateur athlete" anyways? To participate in a sport at a high level where there is no sustainable commercial avenue to support yourself? You'll often find that those people are not full-time athletes and have jobs to pay the bills. Is that the level of commitment we want to strive for here?

So we "support" this guy, but we're ok with the risk of him being in his mid thirties with a broken career and limited finances after years of service to the club.

Can't say that is what i could call support or what I would hope someone who plays for our club is subject to after years of playing. At the end of the day, it won't attract the type of players who will put a quality product on the field for us either.

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 12:07 AM
Totality of that is kind of harsh, isn't it?

This is a competitive business. Guy earns 65k per year. If he plays poorly, he can be gone as soon as one year. If he plays well there is zero upside to that contract. He maybe gets one more deal earning around the same rate of pay (because he's then on the downhill in his mid 30's and he's done). Our hero then gets to make a career change in his mid 30's using the massive safety net that the 65 thousand dollar year salary will provide for him.

So for trying to put together a better situation for himself than THAT he gets thrown under the bus?

And Cann knew all of those parameters when he made the choice to become an MLS soccer player. He also knew the parameters of his contract, when he signed it.

And if things don't work out, and his career ends as a 30-something ex-player who never made more than $65k a year, he can still make the choice to get another career and become a working stiff for the next 30 years like the rest of us. We often talk like when these poor players retire, they are nothing more than burned out human husks, with nothing left to offer society, or support themselves.

I don't begrudge someone trying to do better for themselves - but that doesn't mean I support any circumstance or strategy by which someone does it. And as Vic rightly pointed out, you see this kind of stuff infrequently at most in MLS, the NHL, the NBA, and the NFL (where it is a tactic sometimes used by rookies who overvalue themselves).

I don't side with the player in any circumstance. At some point you have to take personal responsibility for the contracts you sign. Drive a hard bargain when your time to negotiate is here, then stop whining and honour the deal you chose to make. Simple. I'd say the same thing if it was a team owner trying to weasel out of the terms of a contract they made with a player.

But again - I say this while still awaiting further information on the situation.

I'm with Whoopee's position on this.

- Scott

menefreghista
03-03-2011, 12:07 AM
What an awful contract he signed in the first place. I doubt it was the club that was pushing for a 4 year deal for an unproven 30 year old, that was probably terrible judgement from his agent.

Probably the same agent that has given him this awful advice. Even if this does get sorted out he has killed any chance of any endorsement type deals in the future as he will now be disliked.

His pro career is over if TFC chooses right now. He can't play for another team until 2014.

The club probably decided to work on a raise for him because they recognized the deal was lopsided, and wanted to keep him happy. Strictly speaking, however, doing so would be purely out of good will.

Let's not forget that it is a contract with the league he is breaking, however, and negotiations up until now along with how this is handled going forward are not solely controlled by the team.

Perhaps you should read this:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1258-Adrian-Cann-leaves-TFC-training-camp

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 12:12 AM
^^
You know the risks when you decide to become a professional athlete.

Exactly. When you make the decision to try and play a game for a living, you have to be eyes wide open about what you're getting into. You also have to accept that maybe you just won't hit it big enough to comfortably retire when your playing days end in your mid-30s, and will have to work for a few more decades like 95.98% of the rest of society.

- Scott

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 12:21 AM
Perhaps you should read this:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1258-Adrian-Cann-leaves-TFC-training-camp

Assuming this is what happened, this just makes it sound like Cann was woefully unprepared when he first hashed out his deal with the club.

- Scott

menefreghista
03-03-2011, 12:25 AM
Assuming this is what happened, this just makes it sound like Cann was woefully unprepared when he first hashed out his deal with the club.

- Scott

That's a tad generous.

It sounds like he had to either forfeit part of his salary to First Wave/Barry Maclean or risk not signing at all.

And in the wake of what happened today I don't think I can blame Cann for wanting to rip up his current contract if it means he stops giving a portion of his salary to the bastards who fucked him over last season.

If the speculation is true, I find it hard to take anyone seriously that wants to defend the sanctity of any contract that was signed under such unethical circumstances.

Whoop
03-03-2011, 12:28 AM
I really fail to see how you're coming at this one.

What does it mean to be an "amateur athlete" anyways? To participate in a sport at a high level where there is no sustainable commercial avenue to support yourself? You'll often find that those people are not full-time athletes and have jobs to pay the bills. Is that the level of commitment we want to strive for here?

So we "support" this guy, but we're ok with the risk of him being in his mid thirties with a broken career and limited finances after years of service to the club.

Can't say that is what i could call support or what I would hope someone who plays for our club is subject to after years of playing. At the end of the day, it won't attract the type of players who will put a quality product on the field for us either.

Again, that's the risk you take when you become an athlete. Some get lucky and strike it rich, so much to the point that their grandchildren's grandchildren will be taken care of.

While others realize early into their careers that you know what, I should get out and get a job. I mean look at some of the Dutch guys who have trialled with the team who were in school, like Bas Ent and Soolsma.

I deal with 16-18 year olds, along with their parents, who face this decision all the time. Some are level headed and know the ramifications of their decisions, some are delusional (well, the parents are looking for a ROI), and some know they aren't going very far and are going to use their skills to get an education out of it. They know that it all can disappear in a blink of an eye, that there could be physical ramifications in the future, but they also know that's the price to pay to do something they love to do, play a game.

So when someone gets to do something that millions would kill to do, and in some cases make more money than a lot of people will ever make in their lifetime, I'm not going to cry for them when they've failed to prepare properly for their future or worse yet, not knowing the consequences of their decisions.

ag futbol
03-03-2011, 12:29 AM
And if things don't work out, and his career ends as a 30-something ex-player who never made more than $65k a year, he can still make the choice to get another career and become a working stiff for the next 30 years like the rest of us. We often talk like when these poor players retire, they are nothing more than burned out human husks, with nothing left to offer society, or support themselves.

While I don't expect him to role over and die once he stops playing, I think it would be irrational not to realize making a career change at 35 when your previous experience mostly involves chasing a ball around poses significant challenges. The working stiffs will have significant experience in our chosen fields at that age. Unless he's one of the few that actually break through to the coaching-admin side, he's facing a steep learning curve to make it anywhere close to where the rest of us are.

There are guys in this league to apprentice in the off-season and Cann could go that route. But in the end I think the league should be paying guys to be full time athletes and they should be able to concentrate on that 365 days a year during their playing career.

I think he's worthy of support here because the league is heavy handed with its contracts to a fault. If they were better with the terns, they'd avoid situations like this and we'd have better quality on the field.

Whoop
03-03-2011, 12:30 AM
Perhaps you should read this:

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1258-Adrian-Cann-leaves-TFC-training-camp

He didn't have to sign for FOUR years.

I mean one, maybe two, with an option, I could understand.

If you were going to sign for FOUR years, don't sign for pretty much the minimum.

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 12:31 AM
That's a tad generous.

It sounds like he had to either forfeit part of his salary to First Wave/Barry Maclean or risk not signing at all.

And in the wake of what happened today I don't think I can blame Cann for wanting to rip up his current contract if it means he stops giving a portion of his salary to the bastards who fucked him over last season.

If the speculation is true, I find it hard to take anyone seriously that wants to defend the sanctity of any contract that was signed under such unethical circumstances.

But the team wouldn't just skim off part of his salary to give to an agency firm that has nothing to do with Cann. That makes no sense. That would be a massive scandal, and something so odious that I imagine it would be actionable in a court.

- Scott

Whoop
03-03-2011, 12:34 AM
While I don't expect him to role over and die once he stops playing, I think it would be irrational not to realize making a career change at 35 when your previous experience mostly involves chasing a ball around poses significant challenges. The working stiffs will have significant experience in our chosen fields at that age. Unless he's one of the few that actually break through to the coaching-admin side, he's facing a steep learning curve to make it anywhere close to where the rest of us are.

There are guys in this league to apprentice in the off-season and Cann could go that route. But in the end I think the league should be paying guys to be full time athletes and they should be able to concentrate on that 365 days a year during their playing career.

I think he's worthy of support here because the league is heavy handed with its contracts to a fault. If they were better with the terns, they'd avoid situations like this and we'd have better quality on the field.

Last I checked he is a full-time athlete, but doesn't stop him from doing other things in the off-season.

Hell, tons of CFL players work in the off-season, whether it be in a family business, something they want to do in the future, etc.

It used to be the norm for pro athletes in ALL sports back in the 50s and 60s.

I can't see why if a guy feels he's not making a good living in the MLS he can't do something in the off season to enhance his post-playing career, whether it be going to school or having a job.

Whoop
03-03-2011, 12:37 AM
But the team wouldn't just skim off part of his salary to give to an agency firm that has nothing to do with Cann. That makes no sense. That would be a massive scandal, and something so odious that I imagine it would be actionable in a court.

- Scott

And result in de-certification.

Also it doesn't make sense as most sports agents usually take a 3% fee on a contract. The most I've heard is 7%. Most tend to fall between 3-5%.

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 12:38 AM
I think he's worthy of support here because the league is heavy handed with its contracts to a fault. If they were better with the terns, they'd avoid situations like this and we'd have better quality on the field.

I agree with wishing that MLS contracts were better, but as Whoopee mentioned earlier - it was the responsibility of the union to fight for that. And they folded.

- Scott

Whoop
03-03-2011, 12:40 AM
This whole organization, off and on the field, needs a whole new culture change.

On one hand you have incompetent management and on the other you have players trying to run the asylum.

I recommend this book for the FO.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51NM2zu5N1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 12:42 AM
While I don't expect him to role over and die once he stops playing, I think it would be irrational not to realize making a career change at 35 when your previous experience mostly involves chasing a ball around poses significant challenges. The working stiffs will have significant experience in our chosen fields at that age. Unless he's one of the few that actually break through to the coaching-admin side, he's facing a steep learning curve to make it anywhere close to where the rest of us are.

There are guys in this league to apprentice in the off-season and Cann could go that route. But in the end I think the league should be paying guys to be full time athletes and they should be able to concentrate on that 365 days a year during their playing career.

I think he's worthy of support here because the league is heavy handed with its contracts to a fault. If they were better with the terns, they'd avoid situations like this and we'd have better quality on the field.

Atheletes aren't the first people who have had to endure a massive career upheaval later in life. Every day there are millions of people laid off from jobs they've done for years, who are then forced to either find another job in that field, or try and break into something else entirely. Sometimes that might involve taking night courses at a college, or whatever.

When you go into pro sports, you go into it recognizing that you have a small window of opportunity, and that not every athlete hits it big enough to retire comfortably. For every Sidney Crosby, the NHL has dozens of John Mitchells floating around the league, and the minors, who will probably have to get normal jobs when their playing days are over.

- Scott

ag futbol
03-03-2011, 12:44 AM
Last I checked he is a full-time athlete, but doesn't stop him from doing other things in the off-season.

Hell, tons of CFL players work in the off-season, whether it be in a family business, something they want to do in the future, etc.

It used to be the norm for pro athletes in ALL sports back in the 50s and 60s.

I can't see why if a guy feels he's not making a good living in the MLS he can't do something in the off season to enhance his post-playing career, whether it be going to school or having a job.
Again, that's taking away from your off-season and recovery period. The 1950's and 1960's were great i'm sure, but I would take the athletes we have today over those ones.

Hey, if you're alright with the marginal quality guys we have in MLS today those kind of terms will do fine. But you're going to have to make some changes if anything better is going to show up in the future.

jloome
03-03-2011, 12:45 AM
We should accept the reality of the world we live in and most importantly the world these players are forced to work in.

Except they're not forced to work in it. There are more than 100,000 registered professional soccer players around the world. And it's evidenced by how many leave for better deals that they are not forced to work in MLS.

So that argument doesn't hold any logical validity, sorry.

Similarly, they signed a bad CBA. That was their choice.

If you sign a deal, you stick with the deal. That's a basic moral precept of any type of commerce.

ag futbol
03-03-2011, 12:48 AM
I agree with wishing that MLS contracts were better, but as Whoopee mentioned earlier - it was the responsibility of the union to fight for that. And they folded.

- Scott
What is a player to do though? Cann is one guy within a larger union.

It's not like every player came in and agreed to every term in the CBA. You have different groups with different interests, the CBA can't address all of them or suit everyone's needs.

I think roping a guy into a 4 year deal on minimalist terms while allowing him to negotiate without an agent is a step backwards for the league. Nobody's winning here.

Whoop
03-03-2011, 12:50 AM
Many pro athletes in every sport have off-season commitments, businesses, and plans that focus on their futures. Especially those that aren't making the millions that will allow them to retire without working. I know guys who play pro hockey who are going to school in the off season and it's not really hampering their off-season training and recovery period. It just takes dedication.

But even the guys who make millions still do things in the off season to prepare themselves for the future.

Yes, the MLS should increase their salary cap, but the plan is for sustained growth otherwise the league will go the route of the NASL. If it's a big issue, the MLSPA should push for it when the next CBA contract is to be negotiated.

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 12:56 AM
What is a player to do though? Cann is one guy within a larger union.

It's not like every player came in and agreed to every term in the CBA. You have different groups with different interests, the CBA can't address all of them or suit everyone's needs.

I think roping a guy into a 4 year deal on minimalist terms while allowing him to negotiate without an agent is a step backwards for the league. Nobody's winning here.

But this is how a union works. You give up some individual desires, in order for to gain the strength that comes from negotiating as a collective. You don't always get what you individually want, but you get a better deal than you would get as single, individual voices.

Also, while I agree with you that negotiating without an agent was a serious misstep, I don't think that misstep was the league's for "allowing" him to do it. Who negotiates a four year contract without anyone advising them?

- Scott

bman27
03-03-2011, 01:03 AM
What is a player to do though? Cann is one guy within a larger union.

It's not like every player came in and agreed to every term in the CBA. You have different groups with different interests, the CBA can't address all of them or suit everyone's needs.

I think roping a guy into a 4 year deal on minimalist terms while allowing him to negotiate without an agent is a step backwards for the league. Nobody's winning here.

but this doesn't seem like the front office roping the guy into a 4 year deal to me, it doesn't make sense at that point in time for the team, if anything you would expect them to want a one year deal, he was unproven at this level of league, spending most of his career so far in the usl, coming in on trial. If anything, it could have been something he stipulated, being in his hometown, wanting the security of potentially finishing his career here. however, did he get fleeced in the money part of his deal? i would say so .

Whoop
03-03-2011, 01:04 AM
What is a player to do though? Cann is one guy within a larger union.

It's not like every player came in and agreed to every term in the CBA. You have different groups with different interests, the CBA can't address all of them or suit everyone's needs.

I think roping a guy into a 4 year deal on minimalist terms while allowing him to negotiate without an agent is a step backwards for the league. Nobody's winning here.

You don't need an agent to negotiate a contract if you feel you can do it yourself.

And once you sign a MLS contract you fall under the terms of the MLS CBA.

Cann also didn't have to sign with First Wave. I can see where MoJo and TFC recommended First Wave to Cann if he was looking for an agent. But the agent just provides counsel.

Maybe Cann felt he was over barrel because TFC was pretty much his last hope at doing something he loves.

Whoop
03-03-2011, 01:04 AM
Hindsight is 20/20.

ag futbol
03-03-2011, 01:07 AM
I don't think any points of agreement will be hashed out on this one.

Despite Cann and the MLSPU signing agreements I still see the overall tone of the relations between the league and the players union being the deciding factor. We had a labor arbitrator speak at our business school on several occasions. His phrase was that companies found themselves with the unions they deserved. So a heavy handed employer would hence find themselves with a union that would stoop to similar tactics. So even though Cann is holding out of a contract he signed, I think the overall picture would provide us with examples where MLS has been less than perfect to the letter of the law.

Getting late.. that's it for me today. cheers

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 01:11 AM
Cheers ag. :D

- Scott

TFCRegina
03-03-2011, 01:13 AM
Well, we still have about 80 or so pages to go to reach De Ro status. Work hard at it boys! Night!

Roogsy
03-03-2011, 01:21 AM
Last I checked he is a full-time athlete, but doesn't stop him from doing other things in the off-season.

Hell, tons of CFL players work in the off-season, whether it be in a family business, something they want to do in the future, etc.

It used to be the norm for pro athletes in ALL sports back in the 50s and 60s.

I can't see why if a guy feels he's not making a good living in the MLS he can't do something in the off season to enhance his post-playing career, whether it be going to school or having a job.


CFL athletes aren't committed to an 8 month season not including pre-season, post-season or heaven forbid, champions league.

Or do you think working at the Mall during Christmas is really a viable option for these guys?

nfitz
03-03-2011, 01:24 AM
He didn't have to sign for FOUR years.

I mean one, maybe two, with an option, I could understand.

If you were going to sign for FOUR years, don't sign for pretty much the minimum.It's pretty clear that there was some major corruption going on at MLSE at the time, and Cann was a victim of it. Why are we blaming the victim?

If MLSE doesn't come to the table and sort this out, Cann should be sueing MLSE and their employees (current and former).

bman27
03-03-2011, 01:24 AM
Well, we still have about 80 or so pages to go to reach De Ro status. Work hard at it boys! Night!

well just like Cann's contract compared to dero's, this thread is one tenth the size :p

anyways g'night all, hope we see a lot more insight into this tomorrow

werewolf
03-03-2011, 01:24 AM
But the team wouldn't just skim off part of his salary to give to an agency firm that has nothing to do with Cann. That makes no sense. That would be a massive scandal, and something so odious that I imagine it would be actionable in a court.

- Scott

According to FIFA regulations, the agent works for either the club or the player. The club can pay an agent a set fee for finding a player, or the player gives a percentage of their negotiated contract to the agent. Not both ways.

It is violation of FIFA rules for a club to pay an agent who is working on behalf of a player, as thats conflict of interest.

nfitz
03-03-2011, 01:26 AM
It is violation of FIFA rules for a club to pay an agent who is working on behalf of a player, as thats conflict of interest.Then the contract is null and void.

No wonder MLSE was keen to renegotiate it.

What kind of sanctions are they going to face from FIFA for letting this kind of stuff go on ...

(... oh wait ... I guess all they have to do is send a cut to Jack Warner and it's dealt with ...).

rocker
03-03-2011, 01:32 AM
I loved Cann last year, but I wonder if the Preki system created an illusion that he was THAT good. Cuz under Dasovic and Winter (from the 2 games I've watched this spring) he looks much much less competent..... The Preki thing makes sense since Cann has been a journeyman his whole career.

65K might be too low, but I think anything more than 90K and he's probably reaching "overpaid" status.

Whoop
03-03-2011, 01:33 AM
CFL athletes aren't committed to an 8 month season not including pre-season, post-season or heaven forbid, champions league.

Or do you think working at the Mall during Christmas is really a viable option for these guys?

The CFL was just one example.

The point being is you feel you're not prepared for your future, you don't just twiddle your thumbs during your downtime.

Roogsy
03-03-2011, 01:34 AM
I loved Cann last year, but I wonder if the Preki system created an illusion that he was THAT good. Cuz under Dasovic and Winter (from the 2 games I've watched this spring) he looks much much less competent..... The Preki thing makes sense since Cann has been a journeyman his whole career.

65K might be too low, but I think anything more than 90K and he's probably reaching "overpaid" status.

Shit...agreeing with you twice in a week? Worlds are colliding. Although I'd probably stretch it to six figures, 100k and move on.

Roogsy
03-03-2011, 01:39 AM
The CFL was just one example.

The point being is you feel you're not prepared for your future, you don't just twiddle your thumbs during your downtime.


Or in the MLS where there is practically little downtime, make sure that you negotiate the maximum contract possible.

Why would you even defend the concept of off-season work before dealing with the fundamental point that athletes should FIRST maximize their playing contract with their teams? Shouldn't that be their primary focus?

And what kind of work exactly could an MLS player obtain between the MLS Cup game and training camp on Feb 1 or whatever the date is? What is that, 10 weeks? Really? You call that downtime?

A reasonable person would already know that this "downtime" of 10 weeks would be crucial for an athlete to recover from a long and grueling season. Looking for supplemental work during this period is the most ridiculous idea for so many reasons, not the least of which is that his performance for the team during the season would most certainly suffer. negatively affecting his own earning potential and negatively affecting team performance and standings. How can someone be considered an elite athlete and be able to provide their upmost performance if for the 10 weeks he has between work he has to lug Christmas trees??? You've gone off the deep end Vic.

Shakes McQueen
03-03-2011, 01:39 AM
All of us need to make a note of meeting up for a beer at some point this season. I insist.

- Scott