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View Full Version : What does everyone think the current state of the Reds roster?



Red CB Toronto
03-01-2011, 11:23 PM
I know this subject has been knocked around to death, but I wanted to get down to the facts, which are that only 13 healthy bodies are officially on the roster 19 days out from the season opener. I am sure they will get a roster exemption for Nicholas Lindsey with him being out for the season due to injury.

It is interesting that officially 13 players from the final game of last season have moved one, while only one Sturgis have been added.

With this in mind the Reds have 17 spots to fill over the next few weeks. With Martina, Bouchiba and Soolsma apparently signed and with it appearing only two draft picks, Omphroy and Plata figuring in, that pushes you up to 18.

The next factor are academy kids, it appears that five are on radar with a potentially signing them to a pro contract in mind. This makes sense of development seems to be Winter's thing. These kids could be signed to the back end of the roster, 25-30 and still play with the Academy in the CSL due to the NCAA rules that allow amateurs to play alongside pros.

I am also sure some of the other trialists currently in Orlando and thus South Carolina will be signed including Gay. It just seems that for this team to have some decent depth a lot will have to happen in the coming weeks.

I am excited and interested to see how Winter and de Klerk's vision and plan will evolve. I know this is not going to be an overnight success but it seems to me that at least they know what they are doing. Will that translate into success on the pitch, only time will tell.

[NBF]
03-01-2011, 11:58 PM
I believe I heard Aron Winter say that he was looking for the 18 players by the start of the season and then work on bringing in TFC Academy players and others.

I think he said it on GolTV.

Serb_Star
03-02-2011, 01:41 AM
What position have we upgraded? seems like the same team from last year even though so many players left.

I have faith in Winter but I'm not confident about this season.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-02-2011, 06:52 AM
wingers for one. we've had a total of 1 winger in the last 4 years not including Lindsay, now with Lindsay we have at least 3

TFCREDNWHITE
03-02-2011, 07:32 AM
Lindsay might never be the same player due to the injury.....

Ossington Mental Youth
03-02-2011, 08:02 AM
Lindsay might never be the same player due to the injury.....

its possible, i really hope it doesnt happen like that, he was without a doubt one of my favorite up and coming players

Stouffville_RPB
03-02-2011, 08:14 AM
I wouldn't be too worried.

As you stated CBlake TFC's roster is at 18 + 5 or so Academy players = 23. There are still trialists and the Charleston tournament between now and the season. Even if 1 or 2 players are signed that puts TFC's roster to 24/25 players which would be a full roster last season.

I would think that a spot or 2 are being left open purposely for possible DP's that they are intending to sign (but who knows if and when that happens). So then you are at 26 players.

If we were at 13 players total and no trialists or players really being looked at I'd be concerned but I think there will be something pretty close to a full roster come first kick.

zamperina
03-02-2011, 08:18 AM
I think this team will continue to struggle...But with the way the Academy is starting to produce prospects hopefully that will translate into 1st team members. If this can happen then I think this team will become a powerhouse.

T_Mizz
03-02-2011, 08:22 AM
The way I look at it, this year is basically a throw away when it comes to competing. So why no go all out with that, sign the 5 (or maybe more) academy kids let them play and see what you've got there.
I never expected this team to do anything this year anyway with such a huge turnover both on the field and on the sidelines.

Oldtimer
03-02-2011, 08:23 AM
Work in progress.

No way Winter can get all that he wants in 1 season. That should be obvious.
If we make the post-season, that would be a bonus, but we can't even demand that.

woolly
03-02-2011, 10:06 AM
I get the same feeling that I got at the beginning of last year.

I'm fairly pleased in my decision to give up my seasons this year. Paying game by game will reduce my frustration with teh team no end.

nfitz
03-02-2011, 10:11 AM
Too early to speculate. Camp is full, and we are yet to be told who has been signed.

drewski
03-02-2011, 10:12 AM
I think i'm not too worried. with the huge change in management, I was expecting a matching change in roster which comes with it, including gutting the roster, which I think is better long term instead of trying to force players into a system/spots that they wont' work in, and lots of trialists in the pre-season, to see who can fit the system.

Darlofletch
03-02-2011, 10:36 AM
wingers for one. we've had a total of 1 winger in the last 4 years not including Lindsay, now with Lindsay we have at least 3

eh?

peterson, ricketts, johann smith, welsh. they generally haven't been good wingers, but we've definitely had more than one.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-02-2011, 10:42 AM
eh?

peterson, ricketts, johann smith, welsh. they generally haven't been good wingers, but we've definitely had more than one.

thats what i more or less meant as well as how long have any of those dudes lasted? How many of those dudes could cross?
Peterson didnt really play much last year, Welsh was around for a bit, Johann smith barely played and left and Ricketts was in all sorts of diff positions and sometimes played wing but rarely was able to send in reg crosses. Also we left Obrien out of this but he also rarely played cus of injury. Basically what i meant by that comment is we never had TWO capable wingers at one time giving our team width which we appear to have now.

Darlofletch
03-02-2011, 10:49 AM
well if we're talking capable wingers, then definitely no argument here.

P-NUTZ
03-02-2011, 11:09 AM
with the roster appearing as it does so far, we will likely lose a lot of games this year.

if true, thats going to be really really annoying.

Alixir
03-02-2011, 11:14 AM
Jesus....when we were in Turkey everyone was all "we are heading in the right direction" now everyone is a doomsayer...bloody hell. Relax.

reggie
03-02-2011, 11:16 AM
some things dont change,the training camp coverage has been abysmal.
we have no idea who is playing well,who is signed,what about the drafted players.

gkhs
03-02-2011, 11:25 AM
I thought this might contribute to the conversation. I tallied up the minutes played for TFC during preseason (through Orlando City), available here:

http://socceruntothedogs.blogspot.com/2011/03/toronto-fc-preseason-stats-through-226.html

I'm not sure it made me feel any better, but it definitely seems to underscore which trialists/unsigned players seem to be the leading candidates to sign on.

Zavarise, for one, has definitely gotten a long look, fwiw.

Fort York Redcoat
03-02-2011, 12:31 PM
some things dont change,the training camp coverage has been abysmal.
we have no idea who is playing well,who is signed,what about the drafted players.

"Abysmal still" perhaps but better than last year. Let's not ignore the fact we didn't get the Mickey Mouse Tourney streamed last year.

DangerRed
03-02-2011, 02:16 PM
Duane Rollins, over on Canadian Soccer News, wrote the following, which is an interesting take:

Sober Second Thoughts: Long Range Goals vs Really Angry Fans

The Gambians are gone.

Emmanuel Gomez was waived today months after his countryman Amadou Sanyang was shown the door. The move doesn’t free up much cap room (and TFC doesn’t really need the cap space anyway) and it moves the club one spot further away from having anything close to a full roster signed.

So, from an outsider’s perspective, it’s hard to understand the move – unless Gomez simply could not play at this level any longer after losing a full year to injury. Regardless, the move, and lack of signings to fill the empty roster spaces, has some fans feeling distinctly 2010-ish again.

In case you forgot 2010 was when the fans wore green in the stands and forced Tom Anselmi to spend his evenings sucking up to people that paid less for their season tickets than it costs for a roast beef sandwich in the Platinum lounge at the ACC. TFC does not want it to feel 2010-ish. TFC has appealed to have 2010 removed from the history books.

The new colour is, of course, orange. Specifically the great Oranje hope that will lead the Reds to the Promised Land. (Note: The Promised Land does not go through the Disney Pro Soccer Classic.)

Coming from a place where the sport is A Really Big Deal, Aron Winter and Bob de Klerk will be able to handle some of the negative comments that are starting to trickle out. They will instinctively understand that such noise is just part of the gig. Hopefully their bosses will understand that as well because the last thing this club needs now is another change in management. (Note: Mo Johnston was employed for almost four years. They’ll be fine).

Vito from Woodbridge* might not be. Good ole' Vito likely started to plan the protest about 15 minutes after the Orlando USL-Pro-ers captured the bronze medal at the previously mentioned Disney Pro Soccer Classic. Vito is, of course, insane, but is there reason for some concern?

It depends. If your Bottom-Line-Or-I’m-Taking-My-Hard-Earned-Money-Elsewhere is a championship contending season, then probably. If you just want to see some evidence that someone is doing something productive then you should probably chill out a bit longer.

TFC needs warm bodies to play out the season. The club will deserve every bit of criticism it receives if there is a 2011 equivalent of Dan Gargan putting his boots on in the cap from the airport as he races to the season opener. But, the Reds cannot sign players for the sake of it. They have to be the right fit.

Many people, this writer included, have expressed a fear that Winter may not have a full handle on the talent level needed to compete at MLS. That’s why Paul Mariner was brought on board. The evidence from the Disney event seems to suggest that those worries could have merit, however. Still, it’s one tournament and it was a shaky Web feed. So, we’ll see.

We will also see whether the fan base has the stomach to deal with a youth heavy approach to 2011. Every indication has suggested that’s the approach TFC is going for. If the Reds aren’t the youngest team in MLS in 2011 be surprised. Winter and De Klerk are from Ajax after all. There are few clubs in the world that put a greater emphasis on youth development than the Dutch giants. Consider that and consider the $17.5 million academy investment coming down the pipe and you might get an idea of what TFC is thinking.

Winter was brought in to find and mould the 2015 Reds as much as he was to manage the 2011 team. The senior players here now are pawns, really, in a much bigger vision.

And the successful fulfilment of that vision does not put as much emphasis filling out the current roster as does the average fan.

* Vito from Woodbridge (a T.O. suburb with a high percentage of people with Italian heritage living in it) was a fictional creation of Toronto radio station The Fan 590. He was meant to be a parody of a typical, simple Toronto sports fan – one that doesn’t necessarily think long-term.

menefreghista
03-02-2011, 02:18 PM
An apologist piece from Duane Rollins? Shocking.

Walms
03-02-2011, 04:50 PM
Nice read

Hamilton_Red
03-04-2011, 11:23 AM
I'm in full blown panic mode right now after watching the last couple of friendlies. The season starts in two weeks. Our best two players are in contract disputes.... no signings of any significance. Really worried I've wasted 2G's on season tickets!

Ossington Mental Youth
03-04-2011, 11:33 AM
the last game was predominantly trailists being played out of position, i wouldnt get too worked up

Stouffville_RPB
03-04-2011, 12:32 PM
I'm in full blown panic mode right now after watching the last couple of friendlies. The season starts in two weeks. Our best two players are in contract disputes.... no signings of any significance. Really worried I've wasted 2G's on season tickets!

Cann was not our one of our 2 best players last year. He was an important piece but new was not one of the top 2 or even 3 best players in the squad in my opinion.

What signings of signifcance were you expecting? Significant signings in MLS usually mean DP's. Other signings that turn out to be signifcant often don't seem that way at first in MLS (ie Wondoloski). I'd rather Winter wait a little on the DP's. I'd rather see him come in and evaluate what he has and then go out to find the players that he is missing.

If you really thought that you were buying tickets to a championship team this season I don't know what you were thinking.

Look for success in the smaller places this year like in the maturation of players and development of a real system because if you are looking in the win column, I'm sorry but you will be disappointed.

Oldtimer
03-04-2011, 12:36 PM
I'm in full blown panic mode right now after watching the last couple of friendlies. The season starts in two weeks. Our best two players are in contract disputes.... no signings of any significance. Really worried I've wasted 2G's on season tickets!

wow... that took long, didn't it? Pre-season is meaningless. Even a slow start can be overcome by year-end. MLS has numerous examples of just that in the last few years.

Mark TFC
03-04-2011, 12:49 PM
^ Agreed!

Hamilton_Red
03-04-2011, 01:00 PM
Not at all expecting them to win the championship - I just would like to see some progress. Signing Winter is very promising & I'm happy to give him time to develop a team. But.... he needs some players to develop... we have 14 players listed as on the squad 2 of which are Academy players 17 & 18 years old. 2 others Dero & Cann are in contract disputes. 10 settled players...two weeks before the season starts.

If we had 20 players in the squad and were trialing for five more... I'd be relaxed. Pre-season starts when you have a squad - it gives them time to work together & get to know the system...results don't matter a jot. We will be doing that 5-6 games into the season. They seem to have no interest in winning the first few games - just like last year. Winter needs some support from the MLSE.

DangerRed
03-04-2011, 01:05 PM
The Shitecaps just signed a big target striker from FC Zurich to a four-year deal. A signing or two like that would make me less jittery about the roster situation.

Hamilton_Red
03-04-2011, 01:14 PM
Should we at least expect to do better this year than the expansion teams?

DangerRed
03-04-2011, 01:17 PM
I don't see any reason to expect we'll do better than Vancouver. I fully expect the Shitecaps to make the playoffs this year, especially given the additional slots.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-04-2011, 01:52 PM
whitecaps have shown nothing to indicate they will do better than us this year. They just signed their 2nd striker now.

DangerRed
03-04-2011, 01:57 PM
I don't see how you can make that observation.

How many strikers have we signed?

Sullivan
03-04-2011, 02:15 PM
Work in progress.

No way Winter can get all that he wants in 1 season. That should be obvious.
If we make the post-season, that would be a bonus, but we can't even demand that.

Agreed.

Winter & Mariner were hired in January, which is late.
Given the tactical and technical parameters, they need to find the right mix of players to fit the right positions to execute the style proposed. Can't be done inside of 6 months, let alone 3. Especially when you take into account that the first XI appears to include Peterson, Gargan, and LaBrocca with MeRo as a distributing #10.
Not gonna work.

2011 is a rebuild ... I'm sitting back, results aside, going to try and enjoy watching the re-build.

mastermixer
03-04-2011, 02:28 PM
I find it really impressive that every major team in Toronto is in rebuilding mode.

cmonyoureds
03-04-2011, 04:53 PM
this roster looks exactly like a team dumping salary as profit projections tied to ticket/gameday revenue head lower in a straight line. i wouldn't expect them to sign anyone to any significant #'s either (cann and attakora anyone?)

the other side of the argument says MLSE will preserve profit margin, and hey, we're proving profit can be achieved without winning so the future is positively rosy!

BFin
03-04-2011, 04:55 PM
Why would you start a thread with

"I know this subject has been beaten to death..."

Doesn't that imply that in your own mind this thread is utterly useless?

scooter
03-04-2011, 05:59 PM
^ point

as much as it sucks we are rebuilding but it seams in the right way with youth and long term development which bodes well for the canadian national team too

they say patience is a virtue --- but its sure hard

and we have no choice but to give winter et al a chance because if they are successful and all signals say long term they will be a few years down the road we will be saying o yeah i knew we were destined for greatness

and mo is no mo

Ossington Mental Youth
03-04-2011, 06:05 PM
I don't see how you can make that observation.

How many strikers have we signed?

I dont see how you can make your observation.
They had 1 striker who was too young to play, another that has played the majority of hsi career as a midfielder and has a goal ratio to show it. They only signed a capable striker today. We at least have 2 strikers and some wingers that have played as strikers need be. Im certainly not saying we are going to be amazing this year but i refuse to believe that the whitecaps will be that much better. Ill gladly eat my words should it happen.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-04-2011, 07:42 PM
Looks like Hassli (for Whitecaps) is a DP as recently suggested by Duane via tweets

rocker
03-04-2011, 09:17 PM
I fully expect the Shitecaps to make the playoffs this year, especially given the additional slots.

That's gonna be a tall order for the Caps. They have to be better than 8 other MLS teams. That's gonna be tough.

I actually think Portland's roster looks more balanced, particularly with Kenny Cooper up front.

OurGame
03-04-2011, 10:50 PM
^ point

as much as it sucks we are rebuilding but it seams in the right way with youth and long term development which bodes well for the canadian national team too

they say patience is a virtue --- but its sure hard

and we have no choice but to give winter et al a chance because if they are successful and all signals say long term they will be a few years down the road we will be saying o yeah i knew we were destined for greatness

and mo is no mo


I think it's a great thread .. The maple leafs incarnate TFC will most likely blow this year :):)

Smokecell
03-04-2011, 11:51 PM
Looks like Hassli (for Whitecaps) is a DP as recently suggested by Duane via tweets

That's confirmed now

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/vancouver-sign-eric-hassli-clubs-first-ever-dp

poppamidnight
03-05-2011, 10:02 AM
That's confirmed now

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/vancouver-sign-eric-hassli-clubs-first-ever-dp

:facepalm:

I'm embarrassed by the quality of their moves - Both on + off the pitch

The just got a decent-aged, proven scorer, who isn't a DP signed for his name....


Us?
= Overpay for Canada's big-names, + grab a "buddy" from La Liga who hadn't done anything there in 4+ yrs


My old-man said it best earlier in the week when I was discussing the pathetic status of MLSE teams:

"MLSE has the anti-midas touch - everything it touches turns to shite... "
They generally screw up everything they become involved in - yet get away from it due to the sheer numbers in this Toronto/GTA market having a huge number of consumers

rocker
03-05-2011, 11:19 AM
Let's wait and see if he can actually score goals in MLS before we judge the success of the Whitecaps signing.

This is not exactly a big time signing for a DP position. He's never played in a big league and his scoring rate isn't that hot for someone in a lesser league and someone signed as DP.

Somebody said he is better than Dichio... not sure the Swiss league is better than the levels Dichio played at, but anyways, Dichio was never a DP. He only made about 180-190K in salary.

But again, let's wait and see if he can actually perform in MLS.

Cas87
03-05-2011, 12:01 PM
Anyone know is this kid is any good and will be sticking around?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joao_Plata

brad
03-05-2011, 12:21 PM
Somebody said he is better than Dichio... not sure the Swiss league is better than the levels Dichio played at, but anyways, Dichio was never a DP. He only made about 180-190K in salary.

Dichio played and was effective in the English Premier League. I saw a fair number of his games at that level. He was never a major goal threat, but his size and strength in the air was a handful. He caused problems for the top EPL teams problems.

jloome
03-05-2011, 01:12 PM
Anyone know is this kid is any good and will be sticking around?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joao_Plata

By most reports he's been one of our best players in pre-season.

He's on loan, but MLS usually has loan-to-buy deals in place, so hopefully. I think the kid has a future, size notwithtanding.

Everyone should calm down about Vancouver's signing, as there's no way a guy with those numbers in the Swiss league should be getting DP money. Does indicate they're going to try one target man upfront though, which makes sense given the paucity of cheap finishers these days.

I'm actually kinda excited by this season. I think we're going to finish near the bottom of the league, but the football will be fun to watch. Add in some depth next year (or maybe partway through this one, when the july contract window opens) and we might actually have a decent team.

EDIT: Plata's middle name is Jimmy. Songwriters, go to town. (Jim'll Fix-it puns are out, nobody here knows who jimmy saville is.)

TFCRegina
03-05-2011, 01:15 PM
By most reports he's been one of our best players in pre-season.

He's on loan, but MLS usually has loan-to-buy deals in place, so hopefully. I think the kid has a future, size notwithtanding.

Everyone should calm down about Vancouver's signing, as there's no way a guy with those numbers in the Swiss league should be getting DP money. Does indicate they're going to try one target man upfront though, which makes sense given the paucity of cheap finishers these days.

I'm actually kinda excited by this season. I think we're going to finish near the bottom of the league, but the football will be fun to watch. Add in some depth next year (or maybe partway through this one, when the july contract window opens) and we might actually have a decent team.

Yeah I expect a pretty bad season, but I also expect the footy to look better than it did in the past. Give it a few years and some organic growth within the team (academy players graduating into the first team) and things will be looking a lot better.

The absolute worst thing this club could do is either A. Abandon the system or B. Jettison players at a rate that would make Mo Jo proud. Chemistry needs to be built in this club.

jloome
03-05-2011, 01:20 PM
Yeah I expect a pretty bad season, but I also expect the footy to look better than it did in the past. Give it a few years and some organic growth within the team (academy players graduating into the first team) and things will be looking a lot better.

The absolute worst thing this club could do is either A. Abandon the system or B. Jettison players at a rate that would make Mo Jo proud. Chemistry needs to be built in this club.

Exactly, consistency in approach. If they fuck this up and can Winter three months in due to players being pissed at our inadequate defence or something, it'll be a total fucking disaster.

TFCREDNWHITE
03-05-2011, 01:30 PM
Yup, agreed. They need to stick to the system and stand behind Aron Winter and the staff. If they uproot the management again it will be a complete and utter disaster. I personally like the fact that they are trying to bring in an attractive style of footy, i'm ready for a 3 year plan!!

TFCwestcan
03-05-2011, 02:27 PM
There seems to be diminished expectations this year, I guess we have learned from the past and are realistic about the long term damage MOJO caused. I like the zen-like acceptance of a "rebuilding season" even if seems that we have already lived through a few of these years. I am willing to give Winter & co some time, yes there will be many rough patches (particularly during the first few months) but with patience we will be better in the long run.

Hamilton_Red
03-05-2011, 07:29 PM
There seems to be diminished expectations this year, I guess we have learned from the past and are realistic about the long term damage MOJO caused. I like the zen-like acceptance of a "rebuilding season" even if seems that we have already lived through a few of these years. I am willing to give Winter & co some time, yes there will be many rough patches (particularly during the first few months) but with patience we will be better in the long run.

See this is the attitude that drives me crazy. "Long term damage....rebuilding....zen like acceptance" give me a break. This is a soccer team - with the right backing a new team that can be competitive can be put together in a season. New expansion teams have done better than TFC. We get losing teams because we accept them...tolerate them..expect them. We have to demand a winning team - expect one...it has to be the only acceptable option. Enough with loserism!

:drinking:

brad
03-05-2011, 07:33 PM
I have a feeling BMO is going to be pretty empty this season.

Alixir
03-05-2011, 08:04 PM
by the looks of it, unless we are handed penalties in every game, we are not going to score many goals this season.

Beach_Red
03-05-2011, 08:09 PM
Exactly, consistency in approach. If they fuck this up and can Winter three months in due to players being pissed at our inadequate defence or something, it'll be a total fucking disaster.

It's unlikely he'd be let go early into his contract. This is a totally different set-up than before. The first few years TFC had coaches and management on a series of one-year contracts - a recipe for disaster and that's what we got. Now Marinier and Winter have three year contracts, a much better system that allows for a lot more consistency.

Early days yet, very early days...

brad
03-05-2011, 08:15 PM
by the looks of it, unless we are handed penalties in every game, we are not going to score many goals this season.

We will win games when DeRo steps it up and when's them for us.