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bgnewf
02-28-2011, 10:57 PM
Anyone Getting Worried?

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2011/02/anyone-getting-worried/

I am not panicking, but I am starting to worry a little. Thoughts on the lack of "official" news surrounding Toronto FC's roster plans for the 2011 season.

Your comments are always welcome & appreciated.

nascarguy
02-28-2011, 11:15 PM
I would like to know who made the roster by this saturday

flatpicker
02-28-2011, 11:29 PM
I'm always worried about this team.

razor787
02-28-2011, 11:32 PM
Jesus. Why cant people be positive for once. We are actually trialing players. Winter knows what he is doing. Mariner knows what he is doing. People sitting back watching internet broadcasts of matches don't.

This point last year, we had a depleted roster and no trialists. We have loads of trialists this year, and there are still complaints. It seems as if there is nothing that MLSE can do that will please TFC fans.

Just sit back and wait for the news to come. Complaing about a lack of news isnt going to help anything, all it is going to do, is spread discontent like a virus.

rocker
02-28-2011, 11:58 PM
i'm pretty dull to the pain after 4 seasons.
so no, I'm not worried. it can't get worse.

king dave
03-01-2011, 12:06 AM
I will be in Charleston for the CCC and will be watching the matches more intently than previous years as this year we are disease free.
The Mojoectomy was a success.
Will we come out winning more games right out of the gate? No.
Is there a great disparity with other teams in the league? No.
Playoffs? Dunno.
But when you've been through 4 seasons with this team as most have?
You go into the new season with some hope things will get better.
TFC have 'blown' my 'panic' circuit breaker so often that I have had to rewire myself to avoid the continual power outages:D
KD.

Brooker
03-01-2011, 12:08 AM
i'm pretty dull to the pain after 4 seasons.
so no, I'm not worried. it can't get worse.

Here, here.

J .
03-01-2011, 12:37 AM
For the most part I agree What is the most promising is the Academy. Morgan and Stinson look like they will be very solid contributors, but I think that is another year away to count them as starters. Aleman could be bought by an overseas club in 3-4 years if his growth continues, but its too early to say for sure. It would be nice if TFC could keep these guys to develop longer and bring up the skill level, but leagues like the EPL etc will attract the best talent for years to come. Im really liking the news and results Im seeing from here.

One concern is that the guys in charge prior to Winter arriving were not on the same page which sets back player acquisition times. Of the scouting and information they were looking at I dont think Winter liked was he saw or there would have been more additions over the past 50ish days.

Im not really impressed with Gay, though he has some size, not as a starter at least but we really haven't given him service either.

Martina looks like potentiality a good MLS player, he has some creativity, something we have really lacked out wide. If he can be a solution for us, someone who can be more than a match participant that alone would be an upgrade over previous years.

People talk as though we should not look at what we have coming in, but I think its important to evaluate what we do have.

With DeRo we have our lone attack option, Barrett was on pace for a respectable 12-15 last year. Who fills that gap? If DeRe has to be a box to box player, we are in trouble. He should spend 90% of his time focused on attacking as he is our only threat to score currently. In the few matches and clips Ive seen, DeRo comes back quite deep. I dont know if we can count on him as much this season and before.

When JDG gets healthy and he will not be match for awhile, the midfield will go as far as he carries it. If he does not have width to utilize, teams will jam the middle of the park, cutting off JDGs ability to pass. Ive yet to be convinced of any other player on our team able to replace him.

For the most part, I dont see much on our current lineup. Long term I think the future is bright.

Labrocca or Peterson hardly move off the ball with any consistency and that is a big problem with you need those guys to be solid secondary options when our back line is looking to pass out. Cann nor Attakora are adept and passing out neither is Gargan ready to play that style or Omphroy against men. The trialists are meh and Im not big fans of JDG or DeRos character, despite their MLS quality.

I hope they can turn it around, the future is looking sunny days are ahead but not for a long time it seems.

I fear Winter will be trying to make a round hole square with players unable to play his style.

Fort York Redcoat
03-01-2011, 07:36 AM
At this point Winter has 3 games to get the players he will start first kick of the season playing the kind of game he wants. I'd like to see improvement throughout these 3 games. I don't care about the cup though. Concentrate on the system.

Stouffville_RPB
03-01-2011, 07:44 AM
I'd like to see improvement throughout these 3 games. Concentrate on the system.

That is exactly what Winter is looking for, guys that will be able to play the system.

In no league can you completely change a team from a basement dweller to a championship contender in 2 months. Everyone just needs to be a little patient. We've waited 4 years already, what's a little longer?

Oldtimer
03-01-2011, 07:51 AM
^ well put.

Everyone was worried that Klinsmann wasn't going to come through because we hadn't signed a coach by Christmas. Maybe he was just some sort of ML$E conspiracy to sell season tickets and there was no-one coming, or (as some "knowledgeable" posters here very confidently asserted) that he would go through the whole operation, find that Earl and Daso were the "most qualified" to lead the team, and leave having collected a huge paycheque.

Now we're seeing the same type of obsessive worry over signing new players.

It's time to take a :chillpill:, and give Winter a chance to put together a squad.

drexel10
03-01-2011, 07:59 AM
Not worried, but still don't understand why we would get rid of Chad Barrett without having a certain replacement.

Chad, Santos and Dero would have been a decent top 3 in a 4-3-3 formation for the time being.

Phil
03-01-2011, 08:08 AM
Not worried, but still don't understand why we would get rid of Chad Barrett without having a certain replacement.

Chad, Santos and Dero would have been a decent top 3 in a 4-3-3 formation for the time being.

With Chad it was a contract thing.

The last 2 years of that contract were pricey for the production, another miscalculation on Mo's part.

I agree with the centiment that this is still early days to get too worried. This system is complex and it will take time to find players and impliment the philosiphy. As KD said, at least we have a new batch of guys.

scooter
03-01-2011, 08:29 AM
nothing to worry about
we need to support our team
if you think we are going to come out of the gate winning then you will be disappointed
this is like starting over but it seems to be a promising one for the future of tfc
if we continue to be the 12 th man then our faith will be rewarded but its going to take more than one season to turn the team around

Mark in Ottawa
03-01-2011, 08:40 AM
i'm pretty dull to the pain after 4 seasons.
so no, I'm not worried. it can't get worse.
^^ +1

Preseason means little. Lets see what comes when the games matter.

bgnewf
03-01-2011, 08:55 AM
^^ +1

Preseason means little. Lets see what comes when the games matter.

If there is anything that I have learned in religiously following this club over these past years it is this..... It can definitely get worse.

nascarguy
03-01-2011, 08:59 AM
It's ML$E that should be worried!!

Brooker
03-01-2011, 09:05 AM
If there is anything that I have learned in religiously following this club over these past years it is this..... It can definitely get worse.

What.... are we gonna have a 1,000 minute goal drought this time? Are we going to lose every single game of the season? At this point the only worse it could get is if the team relocated.

What is there to be worried about? There's no relegation or anything.... Thank god.

Yeoman
03-01-2011, 09:05 AM
i've already accepted to write this season off.
i can live with one unsucessful season under the new boys
next year i expect results

maninb
03-01-2011, 09:29 AM
IMO the goal is to stay around .500 until we can get a goal scoring DP in here, hopefully by mid-May....

Detroit_TFC
03-01-2011, 09:38 AM
I think what Winter, DeKlerk and Mariner are trying to do is the right direction. Frankly, I don't think the current player roster can fully execute that system. If they are are honest professionals, Winter and his staff know that now. Considering that there are only so many players you can turn over in a year it will take some time to get where we need to go. My benchmark for this year is modest improvement rooted in having a clear direction from the coaching staff. I hope this will then allow us to bring in better trialists in the next few years, combined with the home grown players who are brought up with experience in the new system through their training.

Further,
In the past I though that the coach/staff should try to fit something to the players we have, understanding the limitations of MLS, salary caps, etc. When Preki came in, I thought he would start bringing in players to fit his system. It didn't work, for lots of reasons; everyone is familiar with those discussions. I have more confidence in Winter and his staff that they can start doing that.

Beach_Red
03-01-2011, 09:59 AM
If there is anything that I have learned in religiously following this club over these past years it is this..... It can definitely get worse.

Ha, sure, but it can get worse in a lot of different directions.

They could have made a big, splashy player signing - or even a couple of DP signings to make it look like they were going to turn things around in a hurry, but this team has a very deep hole to climb out of and that's not going to happen fast.

One thing we have learned, though, is that an MLS team can have a shaky start - and a shaky summer - and still be competing for a playoff spot right up to the last game. That's what I think will happen this year, there'll be a lot of inconsistency for the first half or two thirds of the season and a strong finish. If a playoff spot is on the line with the final game of this season TFC won't collapse.

GuelphStorm2007
03-01-2011, 09:59 AM
I have total confidence in Winter, De Klerk, and Mariner. Lets face it we have a new coach a new system and it is going to take a while for the players to adapt. I saw it with Both Cann and Nana during that Disney thing last week. they both looked out of sorts hell it is F_cking Pre season. What do you expect. I personally do not care if they win this Carolina Cup challenge I am more concerned in improvement in play.

Carts
03-01-2011, 10:41 AM
Jesus. Why cant people be positive for once.

I have tried to keep my optimistic feeling going - but now that we are getting close I am getting a little worried...

But that's normal. People shouldn't freak out if someone is worried - that doesn't mean you're being negative...

This year, before our first playoff game, I'll be excited, pumped, jacked, and worried - all at the same time...

That kind of sums up right now... I'm excited for the season, pumped to see a proper management unit in placed, and ready to go with all the new faces and triallists - but at the same time, I'm also worried that we don't seem to have a full roster in place...

Worry is normal for something you care about. Parents worry about their kids when they go out - they're not being negative, they just care...

Now, if someone posts "...we're gonna suck more than Jenna Jameson in a feature video..." than ya, that's being negative...

But to have a little worry as to "...will Winter and the new guard deliver..." that's perfectly normal, and not being "negative" at all...

Carts...

Roogsy
03-01-2011, 10:47 AM
i'm pretty dull to the pain after 4 seasons.
so no, I'm not worried. it can't get worse.


For once I agree with you.

And that is the worst thing for this team because the next step will be complete indifference.

DangerRed
03-01-2011, 10:50 AM
For once I agree with you.

And that is the worst thing for this team because the next step will be complete indifference.

Totally agree. I'm trying to stay positive, but if TFC shits the bed again this season, I'm just going to stop caring about the team altogether.

Technorgasm
03-01-2011, 10:53 AM
the cup is always half full. .

and hopefully half full with Whiskey!

billyfly
03-01-2011, 10:56 AM
I'm always worried about this team.

Yuppers

Redcoe15
03-01-2011, 11:17 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f3fTVkavMVg/SVgxP-YDIBI/AAAAAAAAAt4/BEdp_cIFOD8/s400/6a00d8357a52bc69e200e54f216ce68833-800wi.gif

Whoop
03-01-2011, 11:19 AM
^^

Damn, you beat me to it. LOL

Yohan
03-01-2011, 11:30 AM
Totally agree. I'm trying to stay positive, but if TFC shits the bed again this season, I'm just going to stop caring about the team altogether.
personally, I doubt we'll see real results of Winter's system until next year

Cashcleaner
03-01-2011, 11:44 AM
I'm not too worried by the lack of news. If Mo was still in charge I would be sweating like a sonofabitch, but I gotta give Winter and his staff the benefit of the doubt here.

dupont
03-01-2011, 11:53 AM
I think this team won't make the playoffs this year but it doesn't worry me at all. I just assumed that would happen since we are building almost from scratch again. I think it was the right thing to do for the long term but I always thought it would take some time (like more than one season).
I'm looking forward to seeing what TFC can do either way.

jloome
03-01-2011, 12:33 PM
i've already accepted to write this season off.
i can live with one unsucessful season under the new boys
next year i expect results

Good stance.

DangerRed
03-01-2011, 12:41 PM
Good stance.

Wait, what?

You guys are going into this season not expecting to make the playoffs? Because I could've sworn we were sold something else in the town halls and when Winter was signed.

How is it that so many other teams around the world can get a new management team and go from losers to contenders in one season year? How is it New York was able to do it?

I understand accepting volatility as the team rebuilds, but to say "I'm fine for another year, but 2012 I better see some results" sounds a lot like the same people who said two years back that we were just getting into the real swing of the Mo Johnston five-year plan.

ilikemusic
03-01-2011, 12:51 PM
This team is approaching the start of the season and has yet to really build a roster that would inspire confidence?

I am shocked! Its not like this team to start the season with an incomplete roster.

:rolleyes:

Darlofletch
03-01-2011, 01:13 PM
playoffs would be nice this year, but probably won't be happening. for me though the long term is more important, and i'm fairly confident winter mariner and co will work out well in that respect. So hopefully this year we'll do well enough to keep management and supporters on board with the long term plan, that's the bit I'm worried about as there's not much solid evidence of that yet, I'm not good with religious style blind faith.

In a way this thread is showing what a great move it was by anslemi and co, especially with the big post peddie mlse reshuffle about to happen. By going big with an impressive name (for his playing career at least), especially one who's preaching a grand vision of attractive football, they've bought themselves another year. even if things don't go well this year, they can point to the new long term plan and keep pleading for patience, which they actually started to do right at winter's introductory press conference, he was bullish about success this year, but anselmi and beirne and co were all about patience. They needed that insulation against failure, which is the main reason why they did eventually go big.

basically it's a good thing when their interests and concern for their own careers coincide with supporters interests of what's best for the team.

TFCRegina
03-01-2011, 02:32 PM
I've been worried the whole time...about our defense. I've seen positive signs with respect to things in the midfield and attack. The fullbacks continue to worry me.

It's an area of this team that needs some action.

mastermixer
03-01-2011, 02:41 PM
I've been worried the whole time...about our defense. I've seen positive signs with respect to things in the midfield and attack. The fullbacks continue to worry me.

It's an area of this team that needs some action.

This is amusing to me. Last year everyone was raving about what a great defensive team we had and even worried that Cann and Attakora contracts had not been renewed. Forward a few preseason games this year and its the complete opposite. I know these boards are meant for comments but lets at least get through pre-season before we start chopping heads.

Dave67
03-01-2011, 02:42 PM
The only thing that will worry me is if Winter comes out in 2 months time and says something like 'It's proving to be a problem getting the players I desire to come to Toronto and sign a contract'.

I really think we will find out how much of an obstacle being a Canadian team is in MLS in the next 12 months. I hope it turns out to be no obstacle at all, but I am concerned.

Alixir
03-01-2011, 02:49 PM
I'm not worried...even now we are in a far more promising position then we were in any of the previous years.

TFCDP
03-01-2011, 04:03 PM
I am certainly confident we will do better than last year... I am however a little worried about our lack of signings.

Auzzy
03-01-2011, 04:29 PM
TFC waives Emmanuel Gomez:

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/03/emmanuel-gomez-waived

I'm chanting to myself: "I am not worried, I am not worried, I am not worried..." ;)

P-NUTZ
03-01-2011, 04:58 PM
i am not worried. i am tho, grumpy.

I think winter and his team are right for us, and i know he wants results and a playoff spot THIS year.

i am grumpy because we may struggle to score and win games. And i am grumpy because i suspect winter may get frustrated getting what he needs in players and performance.

so although i am happy about the direction, i am grumpy believing i will have to sit through even more losing than normal.

losing really sucks = grumpy not worried

Nodoubtguy
03-01-2011, 05:44 PM
I'd rather them take the time and build a team they want then rush and get whoever in here now, only to have it not work again

TFCRegina
03-01-2011, 05:52 PM
TFC waives Emmanuel Gomez:

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/03/emmanuel-gomez-waived

I'm chanting to myself: "I am not worried, I am not worried, I am not worried..." ;)

Clearing of more deadwood. I approve.

jloome
03-01-2011, 05:53 PM
Wait, what?

You guys are going into this season not expecting to make the playoffs? Because I could've sworn we were sold something else in the town halls and when Winter was signed.

How is it that so many other teams around the world can get a new management team and go from losers to contenders in one season year? How is it New York was able to do it?

I understand accepting volatility as the team rebuilds, but to say "I'm fine for another year, but 2012 I better see some results" sounds a lot like the same people who said two years back that we were just getting into the real swing of the Mo Johnston five-year plan.

Not really, since I started suggesting they gas Mo about three months after the start of the first season.

There's a substantial difference here in that they're trying to design a specific system, rooted in academy play, and taught as a culture.

Yes, it is possible to buy a season's worth of glory in MLS. But it's a developing league, with more and more academy kids coming out, and I can see it taking more than one year to change the entire culture of our club.

Everytime someone says, "ok, I can see a slower build as reasonable in this case," someone points out you can have instant success in MLS, like Chicago winning the cup in its first year in '98.

No one ever points out Chicago's success since then. I'd like a system that can make us perennial contenders, without being reliant on either NCAA or CSA. That's what this seems to be aimed at.

So I'm being more patient.

Different circumstances require different reactions.

Thrillos
03-01-2011, 06:40 PM
Don't be worried, everyone should be excited!

The results of pre-season are very skewed for the players the we have. As we never had a line up with starters all together, Winter always mixed and matched. DeRo will be in the midfield, definitely not in the front 3.

In fact i've noticed were not playing the traditional 4-3-3 its more of the Mourhino 4-2-3-1.

Labrocca and Peterson will be top notch this season. Most notably Labrocca.

I expect him and DeGuz to be the 2 D-Mids with Dero the CAM. With probably Martina and Peterson as the LM and RM respectively. Maicon or whoever else comes in as the middle striker.

The defense is still up in the air. Don't hold your breath on Cann being here next year. He still hasn't signed and wants more than what he was offered.

Yeoman
03-01-2011, 06:41 PM
Mo Johnston five-year plan.

I remember that being a three year plan.
Do I expect to win the NCC? yes because it's a four team tourny.
Do I expect anything else? Nope because those are not four team tournies.
Anything else is just cake to me, a nice upside down pineapple cake.

ag futbol
03-01-2011, 06:54 PM
Agreed (jloome)

There's plenty of reason to be positive in the long run with the academy.

In the short run, I'm concerned our new staff has underestimated the quality of an average MLS player. Sure, technically it isn't a great league, but it is physical and the players are generally very good athletically.

I think a lot of people have noticed you can go places like Columbia, Africa, Eastern Europe, etc... and if you dig deep enough you can actually come out with a guy who is a starter and playing regular football.

Say what you will about guys like that (they don't always work out) but I think in general that kind of paper quality stands up much stronger than guys on the downhill from western europe or players who are practically out of the game.

Hope I'm wrong. But even if this goes badly, we can drop the 2011 Andy Welsh after one season. The staff is deep enough to get the work done and make corrections where mistakes are made.

That's the difference, even if this staff makes mistakes i have confidence they will be corrected. Johnston didn't learn anything year after year. He just kept doubling down without learning from the past.

rocker
03-01-2011, 06:57 PM
it's possible Winter and De Klerk underestimated the quality required.... but not Paul Mariner.

and I think, unless they are clueless, both Winter and De Klerk now know what level of quality they need in a player to succeed.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-01-2011, 07:05 PM
i feel like Mariner would speak up if there was reason for concern

Thrillos
03-01-2011, 07:08 PM
Agreed (jloome)

There's plenty of reason to be positive in the long run with the academy.

In the short run, I'm concerned our new staff has underestimated the quality of an average MLS player. Sure, technically it isn't a great league, but it is physical and the players are generally very good athletically.

I think a lot of people have noticed you can go places like Columbia, Africa, Eastern Europe, etc... and if you dig deep enough you can actually come out with a guy who is a starter and playing regular football.

Say what you will about guys like that (they don't always work out) but I think in general that kind of paper quality stands up much stronger than guys on the downhill from western europe or players who are practically out of the game.

Hope I'm wrong. But even if this goes badly, we can drop the 2011 Andy Welsh after one season. The staff is deep enough to get the work done and make corrections where mistakes are made.

That's the difference, even if this staff makes mistakes i have confidence they will be corrected. Johnston didn't learn anything year after year. He just kept doubling down without learning from the past.

The notion that MLS has physically strong players is a myth. It is a physical league because there is less talent. That doesn't mean the players are physically strong, in fact I would go as far to say that most are physically weak.

That is the reason why Klinsmann told MLSE to hire Athletes Performance, to make our players physcially strong because they aren't right now.

brad
03-01-2011, 09:14 PM
In a way this thread is showing what a great move it was by anslemi and co, especially with the big post peddie mlse reshuffle about to happen. By going big with an impressive name (for his playing career at least), especially one who's preaching a grand vision of attractive football, they've bought themselves another year. even if things don't go well this year, they can point to the new long term plan and keep pleading for patience, which they actually started to do right at winter's introductory press conference, he was bullish about success this year, but anselmi and beirne and co were all about patience. They needed that insulation against failure, which is the main reason why they did eventually go big.


Maybe with some people around the supporters groups this may be the case, but I doubt it with the bulk of the people in the stands. If the team sucks they're lose the masses. To many false promises over the last 4 seasons about how we are just about there. This season needs a winner. No one is going to care about Winter did as a player if TFC are still garbage on the pitch.

I can never understand why people get excited about the playing pedigree of a manager. MoJo had pedigree as a player. Plenty of other great players are garbage managers (Bryan Robson, Maradona, ect).

J .
03-01-2011, 09:16 PM
Its like TFC is on an eight year plan. I dont know why people are worried about the long term, the Academy is growing. In mls you can turn it around and get into the playoffs the next season. Eating up this takes time bullshit is ridiculous.

brad
03-01-2011, 09:17 PM
This is amusing to me. Last year everyone was raving about what a great defensive team we had and even worried that Cann and Attakora contracts had not been renewed. Forward a few preseason games this year and its the complete opposite. I know these boards are meant for comments but lets at least get through pre-season before we start chopping heads.

People that thought we had a great defensive team last year must have missed the part were Frei stood on his head game after game.

ag futbol
03-01-2011, 10:15 PM
The notion that MLS has physically strong players is a myth. It is a physical league because there is less talent. That doesn't mean the players are physically strong, in fact I would go as far to say that most are physically weak.
I'm not going to disagree with you that there is less talent here ... but I tend to disagree with you on the rest of that.

Soccer in north america has revolved around taking people with athletic prowless first and assuming you can teach them how to play later. While that's starting to charge, I still think that's what we've seen in MLS in the past.

If we really were inferior on a physical front as well, players like Alfredo Pacheco, Gallardo, and Cristian Castillo (who are technically quite good) would easily have established themselves here.

Blowing Bubbles
03-01-2011, 10:16 PM
not worried - i don't think we'll make the playoffs this year.

i'm just hoping the groundwork is set for the next 5 years this year. i expect we'll struggle a bunch the first 20 games getting the team together.

TFCRegina
03-01-2011, 10:50 PM
People that thought we had a great defensive team last year must have missed the part were Frei stood on his head game after game.

Our defense can never be called great.

Frei indeed stood on his head. Nana and Cann were ok. Our fullbacks, as I've stated repeatedly, were awful. If Dan Gargan never sees another game at rightback for us I wouldn't shed a tear.

ensco
03-01-2011, 10:56 PM
In this league, teams go worst to first, worst to worst, first to first, first to worst.

Nobody knows nothing, at this stage.

Thrillos
03-02-2011, 12:21 AM
I'm not going to disagree with you that there is less talent here ... but I tend to disagree with you on the rest of that.

Soccer in north america has revolved around taking people with athletic prowless first and assuming you can teach them how to play later. While that's starting to charge, I still think that's what we've seen in MLS in the past.

If we really were inferior on a physical front as well, players like Alfredo Pacheco, Gallardo, and Cristian Castillo (who are technically quite good) would easily have established themselves here.

I thought Gallardo established himself just fine, he score some great goals and was a pretty key part to DC while he was there.

Do you mean Nery Castillo?? if so, I have followed him since his early days with Olympiakos back when he was considered to be the next top world class player. It all went to his head and he has been in a tail spin before he was even able to reach a decent height in his career. His attitude has been poor ever since.

Back on the physical part, have you seen the size of players playing in all divisions of England, even Italy, Germany, France.... They actually strength train.

The most physically fit guy on our roster is Julian DeGuzman because he came from europe, not the other way around. Cann is big, but he has probably never done a squat, he's all top heavy and therefore a decent forward would be able to out muscle him.

TFC OZZ
03-02-2011, 09:31 AM
Definitely not worried.

jabbronies
03-02-2011, 09:38 AM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SqsTu1kXgNg/Sw4zAoPQkjI/AAAAAAAABY4/8L4YkJUi00M/s1600/what-me-worry2.gif

Derko
03-02-2011, 04:32 PM
I would like TFC to come into form when it matters, and not self destruct after the All-Star Break, so again I will be patient, as long as there is improvement every step along the way.

Pachuco
03-02-2011, 04:54 PM
I'm cool with giving Winter some time, but not MLSE. If this year is an utter failure once again and we don't make the playoffs you can be sure I'll take it out on MLSE. I won't necessarily blame it on Winter (unless he turns into Preki) but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and watch this team have another losing season just because we are rebuilding. It won't take much for me to sell my tickets this year and enjoy the summer without having to watch terrible football at BMO.

One difference with me and how I see alot of people feel is alot of you have given respect to Winter way before he's earned it. In alot of people's minds we are in a much better position then we were the previous years. Well, the only thing that puts us in a "perceived" better position is the management we've hired. When it comes to the roster and signings and the rest of it we are pretty much in the same position we've always been. Incomplete team 3-4 weeks before kickoff and a whole whack of trialists we've never heard of before. And I put "perceived" in quotes becauseat the end of the day, we have no idea how Winter is as a coach, we are banking on the reputation the team he came from has.

I'm optimistic because of the reputation of management, but that doesn't mean they've earned my respect. I'm waiting for the season to start before I start judging whether this team is heading in the right direction.

jloome
03-02-2011, 10:36 PM
In this league, teams go worst to first, worst to worst, first to first, first to worst.

Nobody knows nothing, at this stage.

So everybody knows everything.:D

Actually, that's kind of profound in a "may you live in interesting times" kind of way.

Darlofletch
03-02-2011, 10:45 PM
I'm cool with giving Winter some time, but not MLSE. If this year is an utter failure once again and we don't make the playoffs you can be sure I'll take it out on MLSE. I won't necessarily blame it on Winter (unless he turns into Preki) but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and watch this team have another losing season just because we are rebuilding. It won't take much for me to sell my tickets this year and enjoy the summer without having to watch terrible football at BMO.

One difference with me and how I see alot of people feel is alot of you have given respect to Winter way before he's earned it. In alot of people's minds we are in a much better position then we were the previous years. Well, the only thing that puts us in a "perceived" better position is the management we've hired. When it comes to the roster and signings and the rest of it we are pretty much in the same position we've always been. Incomplete team 3-4 weeks before kickoff and a whole whack of trialists we've never heard of before. And I put "perceived" in quotes because at the end of the day, we have no idea how Winter is as a coach, we are banking on the reputation the team he came from has.

I'm optimistic because of the reputation of management, but that doesn't mean they've earned my respect. I'm waiting for the season to start before I start judging whether this team is heading in the right direction.

yep, when it comes to hard evidence that new management are different than before and know what they're doing, and we should all be cool and not worry, there's none. winter has no head coach experience, we've got the same personnel crap going on with contracts and stuff, we've once again got a bare minimum squad with very little time to fill it, and the triallists brought in so far are very very underwhelming.

all we've got to go on is blind faith that somehow it will be better? i hope it is, but so far we've gopt nothing concrete to go on at all, so yeah, with the cann situation now blowing up, I'm very worried about this season.

DichioTFC
03-02-2011, 10:48 PM
^ Exactly. I wasn't worried (expecting to 'improve' this season, playoffs next season) until the Cann situation happened.

The countdown to Season VI begins...

zackdotcom
03-03-2011, 02:16 AM
I think the Cann situation is one of an open window in a time of turmoil... If we threaten to send him to some 4th league team in Russia I'm sure he will come around.

sweetlemon69
03-03-2011, 08:40 AM
Jesus. Why cant people be positive for once. We are actually trialing players. Winter knows what he is doing. Mariner knows what he is doing. People sitting back watching internet broadcasts of matches don't.

This point last year, we had a depleted roster and no trialists. We have loads of trialists this year, and there are still complaints. It seems as if there is nothing that MLSE can do that will please TFC fans.

Just sit back and wait for the news to come. Complaing about a lack of news isnt going to help anything, all it is going to do, is spread discontent like a virus.

Exactly!!! Finally a rational voice for once! Amen bud.

Oldtimer
03-03-2011, 08:51 AM
Impact are looking strong:


Impact crush FC Dallas
Phoenix— The Canadian Press
Published Wednesday, Mar. 02, 2011 11:55PM EST
Last updated Wednesday, Mar. 02, 2011 11:58PM EST


The Montreal Impact finished their Arizona training camp Wednesday with a 3-0 victory over FC Dallas.

Ali Gerba, Luke Kreamalmeyer and Idriss Ech Chergui scored in Montreal's first win against Major Soccer League competition.

Goalkeepers Bill Gaudette and Evan Bush shared the shutout for the Impact, who will play in the North American Soccer League this season before joining the top-tier MLS in 2012.

“We got the feeling that in the first two games, we made a few mistakes that cost us the victory. We were close to getting a good result,” said Impact head coach Marc Dos Santos. “We deserve to return home on a good note. The team was rewarded tonight as a result of all their hard work in camp.”

Gerba opened the scoring in the 21st minute. Following a through ball from Kreamalmeyer behind the Dallas defence, Gerba passed the goalkeeper and put the ball into an empty net.

“The whole team worked hard to get the win tonight,” said Gerba. “We are finding our form and reflexes. We just need to continue to work and good results will follow.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/impact-crush-fc-dallas/article1927870/

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that we will be playing Montreal in the final of the NCC... and Montreal could very well win.

sashavukelich
03-03-2011, 10:39 AM
^^^^ they beat FC Dallas reserves, read the MLS website.

mastermixer
03-03-2011, 10:59 AM
I'm cool with giving Winter some time, but not MLSE. If this year is an utter failure once again and we don't make the playoffs you can be sure I'll take it out on MLSE. I won't necessarily blame it on Winter (unless he turns into Preki) but that doesn't mean I'm going to sit back and watch this team have another losing season just because we are rebuilding. It won't take much for me to sell my tickets this year and enjoy the summer without having to watch terrible football at BMO.

One difference with me and how I see alot of people feel is alot of you have given respect to Winter way before he's earned it. In alot of people's minds we are in a much better position then we were the previous years. Well, the only thing that puts us in a "perceived" better position is the management we've hired. When it comes to the roster and signings and the rest of it we are pretty much in the same position we've always been. Incomplete team 3-4 weeks before kickoff and a whole whack of trialists we've never heard of before. And I put "perceived" in quotes becauseat the end of the day, we have no idea how Winter is as a coach, we are banking on the reputation the team he came from has.

I'm optimistic because of the reputation of management, but that doesn't mean they've earned my respect. I'm waiting for the season to start before I start judging whether this team is heading in the right direction.

It's MLS guys... If we recognized a name of a trialist then we probably couldnt afford him.

Oldtimer
03-03-2011, 11:11 AM
^^^^ they beat FC Dallas reserves, read the MLS website.

hahaha

I take back what I said then.

Kaz
03-03-2011, 11:15 AM
The big difference between this year and last year are goals. Preki built a team that couldn't score almost by design. The entire preseason didn't have a single goal iirc or maybe just one...

this season only, the odd issue with, the game against Orlando resulted in a scoreless result for our side. And even then I think it was because the boys walked in expecting to bulldoze them, and even the coaching staff picked a weaker lineup. And I'm sure they got blasted for it.

So the fact that we have what? 5 goals over last year is a good sign. Little worried defensively but that will come with some gelling from the midfield to the back 4.

Though I'm pretty sure it'll be a rough start it'll be a positive season over all.

My view of success this year will be as follows. Beat Edmonton, and beat Columbus... if we beat Columbus this year then I don't care about play offs. Though that should be the goal, I'm not expecting it with the trialist that have been brought in thus far as it seems that it's all younger guys that Winter wants to develop over the year into a strong group.

Pachuco
03-03-2011, 12:00 PM
Jesus. Why cant people be positive for once. We are actually trialing players. Winter knows what he is doing. Mariner knows what he is doing. People sitting back watching internet broadcasts of matches don't.

This point last year, we had a depleted roster and no trialists. We have loads of trialists this year, and there are still complaints. It seems as if there is nothing that MLSE can do that will please TFC fans.

Just sit back and wait for the news to come. Complaing about a lack of news isnt going to help anything, all it is going to do, is spread discontent like a virus.

I don't get this post at all. What do you mean we didn't have trialists last year? We had a shit load of them. Why do people insist on making shit up in order yo backup their point? This year is nk different then any other when it comes to trialists. And I have to ask, how is it that you know Winter knows what he's doing. What has he done to earn that much respect already?

Oldtimer
03-03-2011, 12:14 PM
I don't get this post at all. What do you mean we didn't have trialists last year? We had a shit load of them. Why do people insist on making shit up in order yo backup their point? This year is nk different then any other when it comes to trialists. And I have to ask, how is it that you know Winter knows what he's doing. What has he done to earn that much respect already?

That's always a point of debate.

Do we trust what the players say (they say they really respect Winter) or do we trust what random football fans say?

The players might be saying nice things just to get on the coach's good side, so it might not be true that he's that good.

The random football fans don't see things first hand, and have gone through 4 agonizing years, so are not likely to have an unbiased view.

The evidence will come in time. Unfortunately, we won't know for 2 seasons whether the Winter experiment is working.

One thing is for sure: any top level coach with Premier League experience is not going to be coaching in MLS. But our opposition isn't going to have things any better than us. We don't have to beat Chelsea or Barcelona, we only have to beat Columbus and Dallas.

TFCwestcan
03-03-2011, 02:08 PM
You have to feel sorry for Winter, he talked to Ruud, so he didn’t come into the league with eyes closed. That said he sure didn’t expect grief with the Dero situation, an injured JDG, Cann walking out, previous trades moves by the intern GM, and finally the sorry state of the roster. Also add coming into a club with limited scouting (certainly from South America) It will be interesting to see what he does, I suspect Mariner is earning his coin around now.

jloome
03-04-2011, 12:54 AM
From Ives Galarcep's chat tonight:

[Comment From jloome jloome: ]
How much of a ___show is Toronto this year? No matter how good a field boss winter is, can he make something out of this half-sized, undertalented squad? Friday March 4, 2011 12:52 jloome
12:53
It's shaping up to be a real disaster. If Winter can keep this season from being a complete bust he'll deserve coach of the year honors.

MG42
03-04-2011, 01:28 AM
^coming from Ives this doesn't look good...just like the last 4 years, looking to catch lightning in a bottle lol

the-lower-eastsider
03-04-2011, 01:46 AM
THIS TEAM IS FUCKED!
WAKE THE FUCK UP YOU TREE HOUSE INHABITANTS!
HELLO!
KD.

the-lower-eastsider
03-04-2011, 01:48 AM
kd just wrote that last post under my account. were drunk and kathy's yellin at us to go bed. charleston in the morning.
aaaayyyeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

the-lower-eastsider
03-04-2011, 02:02 AM
Goodnight.
KD.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-04-2011, 06:29 AM
From Ives Galarcep's chat tonight:

[Comment From jloome jloome: ]
How much of a ___show is Toronto this year? No matter how good a field boss winter is, can he make something out of this half-sized, undertalented squad? Friday March 4, 2011 12:52 jloome
12:53
It's shaping up to be a real disaster. If Winter can keep this season from being a complete bust he'll deserve coach of the year honors.

Ives has also said the opposite in previous years.
I like the dude and hes got good articles/ideas on things but im not really taking him for his word everytime. ill wait til the seasons over or at least half way through before i cast any judgement

Wull
03-04-2011, 07:52 AM
Oddly enough, I'm still not worried. I'm pissed at Cann and the FO for starting another shitshow but a) I wasn't expecting miracles this season and b) I like the implementation of a structure and philosophy that the new management team are trying to permeate through the club. No point in rushing out and bringing in players that aren't going to fit the system or give us cap issues, even if it means an inadequate to start the season. The upside to that is some of the academy boys may garner some experience in the meantime

P-NUTZ
03-04-2011, 02:02 PM
losing is not cool.

Darlofletch
03-04-2011, 03:15 PM
http://www.rednationonline.ca/Counter_Attack_are_TFC_on_Track_march_4_11_article .shtml

This is a great article that deals well with the "should we be worried" question.

prety much sums up the "it's ok be patient/oh shit we're screwed" and "winter's going to be good/says who? we've got 0 evidence of that yet" debates i have a lot in my head.

boozilla
03-04-2011, 04:15 PM
http://i52.tinypic.com/hv5qpl.jpg

ag futbol
03-04-2011, 06:43 PM
Perhaps that's an appropriate motto.

I have confidence in this staff to learn from their mistakes, unlike Mo. I also think they are on to something with the youth academy.

However, their trialists are shaping up to be un-mitigated shit. Not sure how long that conversation lasted with Ruud but it clearly wasn't that detailed given the people they are trying to bring in.

If you can get guys from eastern europe, columbia, or a hoist of other places who are playing similar to MLS level football on a regular basis, why scrape the orange dumpster?

Ossington Mental Youth
03-04-2011, 06:56 PM
we dont know how crap they are yet, if they are crap at all, ive seen one game, you may have seen 2 which hardly gives us a guage on the situation, especially as dudes were played out of position

ag futbol
03-04-2011, 07:00 PM
I'm all for that optimism, but at the same time the "paper quality" of these guys seem really low (even by MLS standards). While that won't be the deciding factor of whether they are good enough to cut it in MLS it has me assessing the odds downward.

Ossington Mental Youth
03-04-2011, 07:10 PM
i gotta admit i like em more than a bunch of NCAA kids but id prefer a vet or two in there (i guess the north african fella is)