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[NBF]
02-25-2011, 12:01 PM
This is IMO the best overall XI in TFC's history, not necessarily in this formation but in the 4 categories in which they can be placed: GK, DF, MF, FW.

There are some notable omitions:
DF- Adrian Serioux in place of Adrian Cann, but Serioux never won POTY.
MF- DeGuzman in place of Edu, IMO, Edu in his short time did more for the team in one year than DeGuzman has in 1.5 years.



Best All-Time XI:

----------------------------------Frei---------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wynne-------------Attakora----------------Cann---------------Brennan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Guevara-------------Edu--------------------Robinson------------Barrett
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------DeRosario---------------Dichio---------------------


Best Player By Year:

Best Player of 2007: Jim Brennan
Best Player of 2008: Carl Robinson
Best Player of 2009: Dwayne DeRosario
Best Player of 2010: Adrian Cann

ginkster88
02-25-2011, 12:06 PM
It's kind of sad that that team doesn't look all that good.

TOBOR !
02-25-2011, 12:34 PM
I was thinking earlier today about how Guevara might fit into this squad if he was still here.

TFCRegina
02-25-2011, 12:49 PM
It's kind of sad that that team doesn't look all that good.

Basically, if you had that team one or two years ago, it basically would be competitive for playoffs. No more, no less.

scooterTFC
02-25-2011, 01:33 PM
I think JDG vs Robinson is a bigger debate then JDG vs Edu. Robinson is as good character, and a solid journeyman pro. JDG's performance is disapointing relative to our expectations for a DP but you coudl argue that he's still probably more valuable/ significant on field contributor then Robinson.

----------------------------------Frei---------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wynne-------------Attakora----------------Cann---------------Brennan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------Edu---------------------------Deguzman-------------
-------------------------------- Guevara ----------------------------
DeRosario-------------------Dichio-------------------------Barrett

I'm sure some will diasagree

Wull
02-25-2011, 01:46 PM
I think JDG vs Robinson is a bigger debate then JDG vs Edu. Robinson is as good character, and a solid journeyman pro. JDG's performance is disappointing relative to our expectations for a DP but you could argue that he's still probably more valuable/ significant on field contributor then Robinson.


I'm sure some will disagree

When he steps up and earns DP money or at least puts in performances wearing a TFC shirt that are better than Robbo's were it could be argued, (in my opinion) until then Robbo is the best DM of the two in TFC's short history

Oldtimer
02-25-2011, 01:59 PM
I'll care about a "best 11" when we actually have a full 11 players that are above average.

Sorry... but most players for TFC haven't been that good.

ginkster88
02-25-2011, 02:44 PM
Basically, if you had that team one or two years ago, it basically would be competitive for playoffs. No more, no less.

I think we'd be about where we are right now; in the race at the end of the season.

trane
02-25-2011, 04:22 PM
Best All-Time XI:

----------------------------------Frei--------------------------------------
Cronin-------------Attakora--------------Tebily--------------------Dunavant
-------------Edu------------------JDG-------------Robinson------------
--------------------DeRosario---------------Barrett---------------------
-----------------------------------Dichio------------------------------------

That is what I would do.

scooterTFC
02-25-2011, 04:23 PM
When he steps up and earns DP money or at least puts in performances wearing a TFC shirt that are better than Robbo's were it could be argued, (in my opinion) until then Robbo is the best DM of the two in TFC's short history

I'm not really sure which of the two has been a better player for the club on the field.

Robbo is certianly a more popular player with the supporters and he has won a player fo the year award (albiet in a year when the club was pretty thin on talent).

Everything with JDG is tainted by the negative 'value for the money' perception because of his contract.

trane
02-25-2011, 04:24 PM
I'll care about a "best 11" when we actually have a full 11 players that are above average.

Sorry... but most players for TFC haven't been that good.


I love doing this kind of shit. But I agree to a point. I do think that the 11 players that I put together, had they played together, would have made a formidable MLS team.

Yohan
02-25-2011, 04:28 PM
I'm not really sure which of the two has been a better player for the club on the field.

Robbo is certianly a more popular player with the supporters and he has won a player fo the year award (albiet in a year when the club was pretty thin on talent).

Everything with JDG is tainted by the negative 'value for the money' perception because of his contract.
Exactly what has JDG done for TFC that warrants even remotely close to best 11 consideration?

v00d00daddy
02-25-2011, 04:50 PM
Exactly what has JDG done for TFC that warrants even remotely close to best 11 consideration?

Based on salary? Not much.

Based on talent? Hopefully it remains to be seen

Out of curiosity. Does Robbo deserved to be in the best eleven. If so...

Exactly what has Robbo done for TFC that warrants even remotely close to best 11 consideration?

Sidenote: When he was here Robbo was one of the highest paid players IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE.

How anybody can criticize JDG based on his return vs. investment and say Robbo was one of our best in the same breath is remarkable.

v00d00daddy
02-25-2011, 04:56 PM
Here are my choices

Best All-Time XI:

----------------------------------Frei---------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Attakora-----------Marshall-----------------Cann-------Brennan(sadly)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------Edu-----------------------JDG---------------------
---------------------------------Guevara-------------------------------
--------------------DeRosario-----Dichio----Maicon--------------------

Very early for Maicon I know...but there are some pretty slim pickings....lol

I'd almost rather have the LB spot open than give it to Brennan but....

Just goes to show how bad this club has been since day one.

I'm hoping this year is the start to something different. :)

VoxPopuliCosmicum
02-25-2011, 05:48 PM
Best All-Time XI:

----------------------------------Frei--------------------------------------
Cronin-------------Attakora--------------Tebily--------------------Dunavant
-------------Edu------------------JDG-------------Robinson------------
--------------------DeRosario---------------Barrett---------------------
-----------------------------------Dichio------------------------------------

That is what I would do.

Absolutely. Bombscare FTW. Played one game in Montreal and rocked the house. I wish we had signed Said last year so that we could put this debate to rest. I hate having to cite Bombscare as one of the best-ever Reds.

Alonso
02-25-2011, 06:42 PM
Absolutely. Bombscare FTW. Played one game in Montreal and rocked the house. I wish we had signed Said last year so that we could put this debate to rest. I hate having to cite Bombscare as one of the best-ever Reds.

Tebily isn't playing for anybody at the moment according to Wiki.... Let's sign him!



:picard:

Yohan
02-25-2011, 07:35 PM
Based on salary? Not much.

Based on talent? Hopefully it remains to be seen

Out of curiosity. Does Robbo deserved to be in the best eleven. If so...

Exactly what has Robbo done for TFC that warrants even remotely close to best 11 consideration?

Sidenote: When he was here Robbo was one of the highest paid players IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE.

How anybody can criticize JDG based on his return vs. investment and say Robbo was one of our best in the same breath is remarkable.
considering in first 2 years, Robbo was one of the best DMs in MLS, yeah.

oh, another guy who needs to get mentioned, Ronnie OBrien

ArmenJBX
02-25-2011, 08:02 PM
----------------------Stefan Frei-----------------------
-Demitrius Omphroy----Nana Attakora------Jim Brennan--
----------------------Julian de Guzman-----------------
-------Amado Guevara-----------------Maurice Edu-----
Dwayne De Rosario------------------------Jacob Peterson
---------------Chad Barret-----Maicon Santos-----------

TFCRegina
02-25-2011, 08:12 PM
considering in first 2 years, Robbo was one of the best DMs in MLS, yeah.

oh, another guy who needs to get mentioned, Ronnie OBrien

Also Person of the Century and Juventus' most promising newcomer! :hump:

cmonyoureds
02-25-2011, 10:18 PM
Is there a voting option for "we haven't fielded 11 quality players yet"?

Sweeper
02-25-2011, 10:37 PM
----------------------Stefan Frei-----------------------
-Demitrius Omphroy----Nana Attakora------Jim Brennan--
----------------------Julian de Guzman-----------------
-------Amado Guevara-----------------Maurice Edu-----
Dwayne De Rosario------------------------Jacob Peterson
---------------Chad Barret-----Maicon Santos-----------


LMFAO

torontocelt
02-26-2011, 12:04 AM
---------------------------------Frei-----------------------------------

------------------Attakora ------Cann --------Serioux

-----------------------DeGuzman ------Robinson---------------------

Wynne ------------------------------------------------------- Brennan

--------------------------------Guevara------------------------------

--------------------------DeRo ----------- Dichio---------------------

Stiggy
02-26-2011, 05:32 PM
Not much to chose from,


---------------------------------Frei-----------------------------------

------------------Attakora ------ Wynne --------Cann

-----------------------DeGuzman ------Edu---------------------

O'Brian ------------------------------------------------------- Robert

--------------------------------Guevara------------------------------

--------------------------DeRo ----------- Dichio---------------------

prizby
02-26-2011, 05:34 PM
I was thinking earlier today about how Guevara might fit into this squad if he was still here.


too old

Damien
02-27-2011, 12:50 PM
---------------------------------Stamatopolous----------------------

----------Reda ------- Garcia----------Braz-----------Hščanovičs/Usanov

------------------------------------Harmse----------------------------

Welsh ------------------------------------------------------- Robert

--------------------------------Vitti------------------------------

--------------------------Ruiz ----------- Lombardo---------------------

poppamidnight
02-27-2011, 04:23 PM
----------------------------------Frei--------------------------------------
Wynne-------------Cann--------------Tyronne--------------------Nana
-------------------Edu--------------------Robbo---------------
---DeRosario---------------------------------------------Guevara---
-----------------------Maicon----------Dichio------------------------------------

That would be my 11 -
I gotta say - that would be a playoff-calibre 11 if u ask me...
There's only 1 noticable defensive gap (Wynne) - which isn't as bad as our commentators made it out to be - Wynne had amazing recovery due to speed, and never truly burned us on the back... His offensive + transition play made him solid for us

Hard time w/ Tyronne vs. Serioux, but realized Tyronne was more solid in the end...

There is no way in hell I could possibly consider: Samuel, Cunny, Chad up front... I dunno what curse they all had, but they were prone to blowing wise-open-shots

Maicon in there cuz his rate is quite high for what we've had in our brief history... and that alone trumps the afore-mentioned three-stooges

Yohan
02-27-2011, 04:44 PM
There's only 1 noticable defensive gap (Wynne) - which isn't as bad as our commentators made it out to be - Wynne had amazing recovery due to speed, and never truly burned us on the back... His offensive + transition play made him solid for us

you forgot all the bonehead penalties wynne gave away, plus all the marking assignments he muffed up that cost us goals.

my 11
--------------------Frei
--Attakora-Marshall-Cann-Dunivant
------Robinson------Edu
-O'Brien-----------------Guevara
---------DeRosario
--------------------Dichio

Subs
Sutton
Wynne
Serioux
Brennan
Cronin
Barrett
Maicon Santos (only because most strikers that played for TFC sucked for the team)

Wull
02-27-2011, 06:17 PM
I'm not really sure which of the two has been a better player for the club on the field.

Robbo is certianly a more popular player with the supporters and he has won a player fo the year award (albiet in a year when the club was pretty thin on talent).

Everything with JDG is tainted by the negative 'value for the money' perception because of his contract.

2 player of the year awards and a DM that tackled, broke up the play etc.

Now, if jdg were playing to his la liga form, this wouldn't even be an argument. If we're doing a potentially best XI then he wins there too but until he starts putting in CCL-like performances week in and week out (even his effort seemed to go up in these games) there will be a disgruntled portion of the fanbase when it comes to him

Milky
02-28-2011, 09:10 AM
A couple of points. First of all, I find it interesting that everyone rates Frei as TFC's best-ever keeper. I wouldn't even say that he was a lock for our best keeper last season, let alone in the entire history of the club! But he's not bad and I believe that this year will finally be his break-out season. His distribution has been awful but Winter seems to be addressing this in pre-season. And Frei gets better with each passing year so that's also encouraging.

Secondly, in regards to Guzi's and Robinson's salaries, they costed roughly the same amount against the cap while playing for Toronto, and Guzi does not handicap TFC in any way roster-wise, so the arguement that he should score more goals because he's a DP is negligable. Who cares how much more MLSE pay him? And even if you do care, the extra money that MLSE pay him was essentially the cost required to bring him back to this side of the atlantic. In terms of the MLS salary cap, only a few hundred thousand of Guzi's salary counts against the cap (same as Robinson) and if we need to hire more DPs then we still have DP spots (plural) available. Perhaps if we sign 2 more DPs and then want a third then we can start looking at Guzi's value relative to his worth, but until then it's a non-issue.

Anyways, for what it's worth here is my TFC all-time best 11:

-------------------------- Sutton
Wynne --------- Nana -------- Cann ------------ Brennan
--------------- Guzi ----------------- Edu
------------------------ Gueverra
---------- DeRo ------------------------ Santos
------------------------ Dichio

(I haven't seen enough of this year's crop to be able to properly judge, although I'm sure one of them will be able to supplant Maicon).

Wull
02-28-2011, 09:26 AM
Why do people defending him keep bringing up goals? Nobody in this discussion has said he should be scoring goals because he's a DP. Robbo's international slot is canceled out by jdg's DP slot. All we're asking is that he do what a DM should do at a vastly superior level than most players in his position within MLS i.e. tackle, break up play, not get dumped on his ass constantly or let players run by him unchallenged like he has been and also not miss curfew like a teenage boy on road-trips too.

v00d00daddy
02-28-2011, 02:17 PM
Why do people defending him keep bringing up goals? Nobody in this discussion has said he should be scoring goals because he's a DP. Robbo's international slot is canceled out by jdg's DP slot. All we're asking is that he do what a DM should do at a vastly superior level than most players in his position within MLS i.e. tackle, break up play, not get dumped on his ass constantly or let players run by him unchallenged like he has been and also not miss curfew like a teenage boy on road-trips too.

I agree about the curfew stuff but as for "what a DM should do"..there are different schools of thought.

One could argue (and I have) that Robbo only did some of the things that a DM should do. What good does tackling and winning the ball back do if you have zero ability to move it along and go the other way? Unless he was passing back to his defenders Robbo was totally inept with the ball at his feet.

He and JDG are at two different ends of the spectrum when it comes to DM's...and frankly...neither of them did (or are doing) a good enough job.

At the end of the day I'd rather have the guy who knows how to handle a ball at his feet as opposed to a guy who knows how to slide tackle and then kick the ball in to touch.

But it's just a matter of preference. :D

Wull
02-28-2011, 02:29 PM
I agree about the curfew stuff but as for "what a DM should do"..there are different schools of thought.

One could argue (and I have) that Robbo only did some of the things that a DM should do. What good does tackling and winning the ball back do if you have zero ability to move it along and go the other way? Unless he was passing back to his defenders Robbo was totally inept with the ball at his feet.

He and JDG are at two different ends of the spectrum when it comes to DM's...and frankly...neither of them did (or are doing) a good enough job.

At the end of the day I'd rather have the guy who knows how to handle a ball at his feet as opposed to a guy who knows how to slide tackle and then kick the ball in to touch.

But it's just a matter of preference. :D

I see where you're going with that, unfortunately not every DM can be Vieira or Makelele. For me, first and foremost they've got to be able to tackle and mark the opposition. Distribution is a nice extra to have but you've got to do the "waterboy" stuff first otherwise we may as well not have a DM and just have someone do a Michael Carrick-type centre mid and pray our defenders are decent (which they aren't)

torontocelt
02-28-2011, 09:21 PM
I see where you're going with that, unfortunately not every DM can be Vieira or Makelele. For me, first and foremost they've got to be able to tackle and mark the opposition. Distribution is a nice extra to have but you've got to do the "waterboy" stuff first otherwise we may as well not have a DM and just have someone do a Michael Carrick-type centre mid and pray our defenders are decent (which they aren't)


One other skill you missed out is the ability to read the game. If you can work out where opposition players are going to put the ball then with correct positioning you can break up play without the need to tackle. DM dont need to be able to play defense splitting passes, it would be nice like a Pirlo can but all they really have to do is win the ball, retain possession and make a simple pass to another player, preferably one who is more attack minded. Now as everyone knows all that sounds simple but there are not many who can do it well. I remember Celtic's Seville team with Lenny and Lambert, both of these guys were excellent at their job, they were great in MON's team.

Wull
03-01-2011, 07:47 AM
One other skill you missed out is the ability to read the game. If you can work out where opposition players are going to put the ball then with correct positioning you can break up play without the need to tackle. DM dont need to be able to play defense splitting passes, it would be nice like a Pirlo can but all they really have to do is win the ball, retain possession and make a simple pass to another player, preferably one who is more attack minded. Now as everyone knows all that sounds simple but there are not many who can do it well. I remember Celtic's Seville team with Lenny and Lambert, both of these guys were excellent at their job, they were great in MON's team.

I'd include that under breaking up play which I mentioned earlier but yeah, Lambert is a good example of a good DM, much like McCall and Carsley.

They were never going to attain Vieira or Keane status of doing every aspect well but they did the DM job and made a simple pass to someone who could do more a la Cantona's waterboy jab at Didier Deschamps (who was better than that nickname suggests).

I don't think this team and formation as it is can sustain a DM who doesn't do the grunt work first. Our defenders aren't good enough to have a Michael Carrick-type midfielder who can pass and start the play but isn't really good at the defensive end while sitting in a deeper role. JDG has the potential to do all of these things well. He just hasn't put it all together so far