Today's News,Wednesday,Feb.23 [Archive]

Technorgasm

02-23-2011, 07:27 AM

BMO Field, home of Major League Soccer's Toronto FC and Canada's National Soccer teams, realized an operating profit of $641,000 in 2010, exceeding its initial profit estimates by $241,000. The operating profit will be shared between the City of Toronto and MLSE in accordance with their operating agreement. Since BMO Field opened, MLSE has returned more than $1.2 million of stadium profits back to the City of Toronto.

Im so glad that MLSE and the City are reaping the benefits of BMO. . .
now. . hwo can we transform that into success on the field?

It would appear that TFC is completeley safe from the axe as other teams struggle to stay alive in MLS. .... . /silver lining>

Fort York Redcoat

02-23-2011, 07:31 AM

^Making $$$? Give us a roof and STFU about putting anything but footy in there.

Thankx!:seeya:

scooter

02-23-2011, 07:57 AM

mornin d

maninb

02-23-2011, 08:43 AM

Nice profit for the City, now watch Mayor try to use it against TFC by proposing to put the Argos in there...

boban

02-23-2011, 09:08 AM

^Making $$$? Give us a roof and STFU about putting anything but footy in there.

Thankx!:seeya:
Exactly. Smoke and mirrors is what this is.
Their sports team suck, but hey lets put out a story how we make money to diverge the public from the problems.
Fans are not interested in profit of a sports company. Fans only care about on field performance of the team.

boban

02-23-2011, 09:13 AM

"Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment has done a wonderful job in managing BMO Field for the City of Toronto," said Chair of the Board of Governors of Exhibition Place, Mark Grimes. "BMO Field is a great stadium and city attraction. It continues to be a leading edge model for public-private partnerships that other North American cities and municipalities look to very closely when considering similar stadium projects."
What a crock of shit.
The city got screwed on this deal (look a design as one example), and what great stadium is this??! It was never leading edge in the league and is quickly becoming a dinosaur with Red Bull Arena, Houston, Philadelphia, etc. stadiums opening up.

mastermixer

02-23-2011, 09:25 AM

What a crock of shit.
The city got screwed on this deal (look a design as one example), and what great stadium is this??! It was never leading edge in the league and is quickly becoming a dinosaur with Red Bull Arena, Houston, Philadelphia, etc. stadiums opening up.

It's not that bad... just needs a roof! And make it fancy! :scarf:

JuliquE

02-23-2011, 09:32 AM

SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

Shocked you can't get it up for today's SSG.. after losing your shit, yesterday; this one's got a bit more style, I would say.

All is forgiven, though.. since you are the bringer of yum, with this one. :canada:

Alixir

02-23-2011, 09:40 AM

SSG...there is no way that 36 year old is 19!

Carts

02-23-2011, 09:45 AM

Exactly. Smoke and mirrors is what this is.
Their sports team suck, but hey lets put out a story how we make money to diverge the public from the problems.
Fans are not interested in profit of a sports company. Fans only care about on field performance of the team.

Couldn't DISAGREE more...

Financially stable leagues such as the NBA and NFL have both had teams relocate due to financial reasons - usually a conflict with the city over tax money, lease payments etc...

The NHL, which is not nearly as stable, has had to bail out clubs to stop them from removing and folding...

The MLS is not the most financially stable league - so hearing this news, is good news, and newsworthy...

Look at some of the clubs that draw tiny attendance figures, and have basically no local TV deal worth anything - those clubs are in danger of relocating or folding every year...

This shows that BMO Field (basically TFC) are generating profits for the City of Toronto, and our uber-rich profit driven owners MLSE. That mean - THEY AIN'T GOING ANYWHERE... Which is GREAT NEWS...

Now, onto the team on the pitch...
Carts...

gtaguy

02-23-2011, 09:53 AM

Couldn't DISAGREE more...

Financially stable leagues such as the NBA and NFL have both had teams relocate due to financial reasons - usually a conflict with the city over tax money, lease payments etc...

The NHL, which is not nearly as stable, has had to bail out clubs to stop them from removing and folding...

The MLS is not the most financially stable league - so hearing this news, is good news, and newsworthy...

Look at some of the clubs that draw tiny attendance figures, and have basically no local TV deal worth anything - those clubs are in danger of relocating or folding every year...

This shows that BMO Field (basically TFC) are generating profits for the City of Toronto, and our uber-rich profit driven owners MLSE. That mean - THEY AIN'T GOING ANYWHERE... Which is GREAT NEWS...

Now, onto the team on the pitch...
Carts...

Well said Carts.. :D

Thanks for the morning news demine

boban

02-23-2011, 10:09 AM

Couldn't DISAGREE more...

Financially stable leagues such as the NBA and NFL have both had teams relocate due to financial reasons - usually a conflict with the city over tax money, lease payments etc...

The NHL, which is not nearly as stable, has had to bail out clubs to stop them from removing and folding...

The MLS is not the most financially stable league - so hearing this news, is good news, and newsworthy...

Look at some of the clubs that draw tiny attendance figures, and have basically no local TV deal worth anything - those clubs are in danger of relocating or folding every year...

This shows that BMO Field (basically TFC) are generating profits for the City of Toronto, and our uber-rich profit driven owners MLSE. That mean - THEY AIN'T GOING ANYWHERE... Which is GREAT NEWS...

Now, onto the team on the pitch...
Carts...
We care about financial stability in so far as they don't loose money no team is going anywhere.
Who gives a fuck if they make $1 or $1m or $10mil!!
The article is only there to stroke MLSE's small penis.

Look at it this way ... how does this article affect you knowing they made $100,000 or $600,000? It doesn't.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:10 AM

Exactly. Smoke and mirrors is what this is.
Their sports team suck, but hey lets put out a story how we make money to diverge the public from the problems.
Fans are not interested in profit of a sports company. Fans only care about on field performance of the team.

First of all, it's also profit for the city, which is good for all Torontonians. So I AM interested in this.

Second, I have never begrudged MLSE making money so long as the team performs. Unlike most people here, I recognize that a profitable team means more reinvestment in the team.

This is a good story and somehow you have turned it into a negative. In all honesty, you need to lighten up.

boban

02-23-2011, 10:10 AM

It's not that bad... just needs a roof! And make it fancy! :scarf:
Which is a lot.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:10 AM

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:11 AM

We care about financial stability in so far as they don't loose money no team is going anywhere.
Who gives a fuck if they make $1 or $1m or $10mil!!
The article is only there to stroke MLSE's small penis.

Look at it this way ... how does this article affect you knowing they made $100,000 or $600,000? It doesn't.

The article isn't supposed to "affect" us, it's supposed to INFORM us. I'd rather be informed than the opposite.

boban

02-23-2011, 10:14 AM

First of all, it's also profit for the city, which is good for all Torontonians. So I AM interested in this.

Second, I have never begrudged MLSE making money so long as the team performs. Unlike most people here, I recognize that a profitable team means more reinvestment in the team.

This is a good story and somehow you have turned it into a negative. In all honesty, you need to lighten up.
You need to see this for what it is.
MLSE has been doing this for years .. always thumping there chest about business statements, business awards they receive. yet they get nothing for on field performance. Fuck'em. I am not buying this bullshit and its time to call this shit out.
MLSE, fuck off with your financials and give me championships in ANY of your sports properties. That what I care about. Don't bs me with how much money you are taking to bed.

Alixir

02-23-2011, 10:14 AM

"BMO Field is a great stadium and city attraction. It continues to be a leading edge model for public-private partnerships that other North American cities and municipalities look to very closely when considering similar stadium projects."
That made me lol.

JonO

02-23-2011, 10:19 AM

That made me lol.
Which part in particular? Seems like a reasonable statement...

boban

02-23-2011, 10:25 AM

Which part in particular? Seems like a reasonable statement...
The great stadium part for one. Total BS.
Cheap and built on the cheap. (Peddie's own words).
Now its a great stadium .. yeah right.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:29 AM

You need to see this for what it is.
MLSE has been doing this for years .. always thumping there chest about business statements, business awards they receive. yet they get nothing for on field performance. Fuck'em. I am not buying this bullshit and its time to call this shit out.
MLSE, fuck off with your financials and give me championships in ANY of your sports properties. That what I care about. Don't bs me with how much money you are taking to bed.

Nobody is "BS"ing you. They are putting info out there for people who want to be informed and those that don't want to be informed can ignore it.

"See it for what it is" is the classic statement of the paranoid and the conspiracy theorist. There is no evidence that this is anything more than information that is regularly released by any entity of this kind, especially when it's a partnership with a public institution like the City of Toronto.

Alixir

02-23-2011, 10:30 AM

The great stadium part for one. Total BS.
Cheap and built on the cheap. (Peddie's own words).
Now its a great stadium .. yeah right.exactly.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:32 AM

The term "great stadium" is subjective. Does it mean "great" as in designed? As in expensive? I doubt it.

Could it mean "great" in the sense of the atmosphere? Location? Possibly. Either way, it all depends on the eye of the beholder.

She ain't much, but she's ours. And I would rather have BMO Field and all her cheapness but with the atmosphere she has rather than the beauty of RBNY Arena and their lack of crowds.

Alixir

02-23-2011, 10:35 AM

I would rather have BMO Field and all her cheapness but with the atmosphere she has rather than the beauty of RBNY Arena and their lack of crowds.if the same stadium as RBNY Arena were built in TO it would still have a great atmosphere and would still have full seats.

boban

02-23-2011, 10:40 AM

Nobody is "BS"ing you. They are putting info out there for people who want to be informed and those that don't want to be informed can ignore it.

"See it for what it is" is the classic statement of the paranoid and the conspiracy theorist. There is no evidence that this is anything more than information that is regularly released by any entity of this kind, especially when it's a partnership with a public institution like the City of Toronto.
I get the numbers and the information part of it.
What I am saying is they do this a lot. Giving us biz info all the while letting the product falter. Once or twice, sure fine. but they have been doing this for years and no one catches this. It's like saying 'look over here', while steering you away from the problems. Look, it worked for you. you are all happy and supportive of the big company now that these numbers came out - at least not as critical.
Fuck that I say. I am sick and tired of the numbers. I get it. You make money MLSE. Give me the cake, I don't care about the icing!!!!

boban

02-23-2011, 10:41 AM

if the same stadium as RBNY Arena were built in TO it would still have a great atmosphere and would still have full seats.
Fucken right.

mastermixer

02-23-2011, 10:43 AM

if the same stadium as RBNY Arena were built in TO it would still have a great atmosphere and would still have full seats.
I wonder about that... I would think that the 'cache' of a high-tec stadium would attract more suits which in turn would drive the price of tickets up even more and of course leave the real supporters out in the cold. I like that we have a somewhat drab bush-league stadium for this reason... a stadium for the people not the corporations.

Jeffro

02-23-2011, 10:43 AM

Boban, you should really talk to someone about your anger issues. Has to be adversely affecting your health.

rocker

02-23-2011, 10:45 AM

and RBNY Arena would never have been built in Toronto in 2006-2007 so it's a moot point. Heck, it wasn't built in NY in 2006-2007, as anyone who followed their troubled stadium story would know.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:48 AM

if the same stadium as RBNY Arena were built in TO it would still have a great atmosphere and would still have full seats.

What's that expression about "ifs and buts"?

We live in a different society than in the US. It's time we all realize and accept that. Canada rarely builds extravagant stadiums. We can thank the Montreal Olympics (and the Skydome) for that. We don't have the type of corporate sponsorship that the US has and that is required to build those kinds of stadia. I mean look at their college and high school infrastructure, it puts some of our PROFESSIONAL infrastructure to shame. It is what it is and we need to all stop whining about it.

There will never be a RBNY Arena in Toronto. And what we have was a product of extensive negotiations and lobbying. But the point is we HAVE it. What did we have before? Nothing. And if anyone had proposed a RBNY type stadium, we would still have nothing because nobody, not MLSE, not the city, not the province and not the Federal government would have stepped up and we'd still have Varsity, Lamport and Centennial, that's it.

For us to continue whinging about it 5 years later is silly.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:52 AM

I get the numbers and the information part of it.
What I am saying is they do this a lot. Giving us biz info all the while letting the product falter. Once or twice, sure fine. but they have been doing this for years and no one catches this. It's like saying 'look over here', while steering you away from the problems. Look, it worked for you. you are all happy and supportive of the big company now that these numbers came out - at least not as critical.
Fuck that I say. I am sick and tired of the numbers. I get it. You make money MLSE. Give me the cake, I don't care about the icing!!!!

You think the team is trying to divert attention away from their failings by releasing these numbers? You'd have to have a pretty low IQ for this to distract you from the more important things about the team. And for that matter, while I don't have the fullest of confidence in MLSE as an organization, I do know many people who work in MLSE and they're not stupid either, they're pretty smart actually. Therefore, what you claim to be their intent does not reconcile with the level of stupidity that would be required for this to be the case.

Ossington Mental Youth

02-23-2011, 10:53 AM

ah Roogsy, youre beating me to it everytime.
thank you.

rocker

02-23-2011, 10:54 AM

ah Roogsy, youre beating me to it everytime.
thank you.

Roogsy's beating you off? what? ohhh, I read that wrong! :)

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:55 AM

DeRo told me to write that stuff.

:D

Cashcleaner

02-23-2011, 10:56 AM

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 10:58 AM

The article regarding finances doesn't indicate whether or not the city has had it's initial investment of 10 million recouped or not. That's not to mention the money the feds and province kicked in. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to hear the stadium is generating more money than expected, but when does the gov't start making money here?

I would assume their ownership in BMO Field has been kept on the books as an asset, therefore there is nothing to "recoup" because they still have their $10mill intact. What they're interested in right now is a regular stream of income. That's what they are getting and that's why they're probably happy about the way things have turned out.

rocker

02-23-2011, 11:01 AM

The article regarding finances doesn't indicate whether or not the city has had it's initial investment of 10 million recouped or not. That's not to mention the money the feds and province kicked in. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to hear the stadium is generating more money than expected, but when does the gov't start making money here?

the initial investment by the city was supposed to be paid back over about 20 years or so according to the original city plan. Now, with higher revenue that should occur sooner.

the fed/province money isn't counted in that, since that's more like a "donation".. the province or feds aren't getting directly paid back. Kinda like when they donate money to an opera house or something like that.

Cashcleaner

02-23-2011, 11:02 AM

^ Yep, that's a good point. Their share is locked up in the property itself, and the cash they make now gets thrown onto the pile.

boban

02-23-2011, 11:02 AM

I do know many people who work in MLSE
Well that just about sums it up there.

Redcoe15

02-23-2011, 11:03 AM

Everything Roogsy's saying here, THIS! :D

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 11:03 AM

Or more like roads and bridges. I assume it actually falls under programs for infrastructure spending to provide stimulus.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 11:04 AM

Well that just about sums it up there.

:noidea:

I can't know people in MLSE without having an objective point of view? Does my point lack any logic or common sense anywhere? How does that reconcile with my active promotion and participation in supporter protests and my defense of DeRo vs. the team? You make no sense you know that right?

That would write-off a good 50% of the people on this board who have come in contact with MLSE employees and many of them have become *gasp* friendly with them.

You need to go back to your Roswell books and the 9-11 conspiracies.

boban

02-23-2011, 11:05 AM

The article regarding finances doesn't indicate whether or not the city has had it's initial investment of 10 million recouped or not. That's not to mention the money the feds and province kicked in. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad to hear the stadium is generating more money than expected, but when does the gov't start making money here?
According to that article it was a banner year in terms of profit.
I think MLSE and the city split that 50/50 if not mistaken. That means the city took in about $320 thousand for the year.
In other years not, so much, csz, and I could be wrong here, but MLSE has dibs on the first $250,00 profit. The city the next $250, and then split form there on.
It's going to be a long while before it makes its money back.

Cashcleaner

02-23-2011, 11:05 AM

I would assume their ownership in BMO Field has been kept on the books as an asset, therefore there is nothing to "recoup" because they still have their $10mill intact. What they're interested in right now is a regular stream of income. That's what they are getting and that's why they're probably happy about the way things have turned out.

Yep, that's a good point. Their share is locked up in the property itself, and the cash they make now gets thrown onto the pile.

the initial investment by the city was supposed to be paid back over about 20 years or so according to the original city plan. Now, with higher revenue that should occur sooner.

the fed/province money isn't counted in that, since that's more like a "donation".. the province or feds aren't getting directly paid back. Kinda like when they donate money to an opera house or something like that.

True true. I supposed they are getting a bit of tax revenue (GST/HST), though. And of course, there is spin-off economics to consider here as well and the taxes made from those.

boban

02-23-2011, 11:05 AM

:noidea:

I can't know people in MLSE without having an objective point of view? Does my point lack any logic or common sense anywhere?

That would write-off a good 50% of the people on this board who have come in contact with MLSE employees and many of them have become *gasp* friendly with them.
You're an emotional fuck aren't you? :)

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 11:08 AM

^ What? :lol: Really? YOU just said that?

This is a prank right? You're Ashton Kutcher aren't you?

rocker

02-23-2011, 11:10 AM

It's going to be a long while before it makes its money back.

As expected.... the original agreement said the city would make its 10 million investment back over 20 years. The city wasn't expecting to make its money quickly.

Oldtimer

02-23-2011, 11:11 AM

No point being angry.

If I were a Toronto resident, I would demand that BMO Field make money.

Part of good financial stewardship (and nobody's talking about ML$E's incompetence in fielding winning teams in any sport) is reporting back to the interested parties. It's not propaganda. It's what you expect.

If you own a mutual fund, you expect a financial statement. This is no different.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:12 AM

You're an emotional fuck aren't you? :)

following up an insult with a smiley face doesn't mean it isn't an insult.

civility people. civility.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:14 AM

Suds

02-23-2011, 11:17 AM

if the same stadium as RBNY Arena were built in TO it would still have a great atmosphere and would still have full seats.

I agree with that statement. However, there needs to be some context.

When funding for BMO was announced, I don't recall tax payers across the city, province, and country all ecstatic about public funds going into a new stadium. If fact, there was some opposition from many camps who felt and investment in a "soccer" stadium was a waste of money. No way it would be sold out and making money. It would be another drain on the public purse.

BMO was a safe play by governments, the CSA, and MLSE. Build something adequate and within a reasonable investment. It fit the bill to host the under 20 WC, get TFC a stadium, and some revenue for the city. All for a small investment

I don't think anyone at the time has the stones to pony up a cool few hundred million for a state of the art soccer specific stadium at the time.

Oldtimer

02-23-2011, 11:17 AM

It's not ML$E's fault the stadium was cheap. The plan was the CSA's and they messed up in not getting proper funding, so the CSA took away the roof.

As Suds pointed out, nobody was favouring public funding for a soccer stadium. The CSA could have done better in getting more corporate sponsors on board, if they were able to manage their business.

Suds

02-23-2011, 11:19 AM

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:19 AM

I don't think anyone at the time has the stones to pony up a cool few hundred million for a state of the art soccer specific stadium at the time.

it wasn't just a matter of 'the stones' to do it - it would have been a huge risk, and if it bombed, they city could have had a 2nd "mistake by the lake" to deal with.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 11:20 AM

How did the city expect to make money? Was it on the profits expected from this team? Not really. Nobody was expecting every game to be sold out for 5 years. So their projections could not have possibly included the kinds of numbers TFC has provided both MLSE and the city. So why did they do it?

The easy answer is "stimulus". But that is a cop-out. Usually it's the Federal and Provincial governments that provide that kind of funding, which I believe was the main reason they opted in with BMO Field in the first place.

For the city, I believe the fundamental reason was the revitalization of the CNE grounds which in it's hey-day provided revenues for the city much more than it has been doing in the last few years. The growth and improvement of the Parkdale area which has now split into "Liberty Village" and generated plazas, townhouses, condos and tech business was a part of the plan of the city to improve the west-end. The CNE grounds and BMO Field were a part of that.

The revenue generated from the improved economic condition of the west-end is a real success story for the city. The parking revenue, the events that take place more and more on CNE grounds, the restaurants, the permit licences, the taxis, the property tax revenue etc etc. Shoot...even the fact that business like Shoeless Joes makes more money is a bonus for the city. Joe can hire more staff, they buy and rent homes in the area close to work. Even I go down to Parkdale and spend my discretionary money 100x more often than I did before BMO Field existed.

More successful business reduces crime in the area, making police spend less resources there and burdening social programs less.

Quantifying how BMO Field as been successful for the city is almost impossible once you take into account everything that has benefited from having it there. Shoot..even the Go Train people must be happy about the boost in dollars they get every TFC game, money they would have never seen otherwise?

That is why these projects happen. Not because the city or province expect to recover their initial investment but because the job of government is to invest in the population to help it grow and become successful. That is what they have done here. This was an investment in the neighbourhoods of Parkdale and Liberty Village and so far it's had a positive effect. The fact that the city is getting more revenue than expected and their initial investment remains intact (or quite possibly has grown) is a bonus.

Ossington Mental Youth

02-23-2011, 11:22 AM

Roogsy's beating you off? what? ohhh, I read that wrong! :)

BWAHAHAHA
projection?

Cashcleaner

02-23-2011, 11:32 AM

now that I've gotten the 'mod thing' out of the way....

when people call our stadium 'cheap' - what exactly do they mean?
Other than a roof, I really can't see anything that the other stadiums
have that we don't have. LCD TV's behind the food stands mean nothing to me.

We've got parking, we've got easy public transit options, hell... we can WALK there from downtown.
The sightlines are good. The Video board is big. The seats are close to the field.

I'm really not sure what else we need? Cheap stadium? Who cares?

Really? You don't think it's rather bare-bones in the slightest?

Firstly, not having a roof IS a bit of a big deal. There are clubs languishing in the Scottish 1st Div. that play in roofed stadiums. I would argue in a place like Toronto in high summer, a roof is as close to an essential stadium component as anything else.

Secondly, it's not so much that BMO Field is bad. It's not. It's just really all that great. But the kicker is that it wouldn't take much to really make the place shine. We've got plumbing exposed in the gap between 111 and 112. There's cold grey metal spars and beams everywhere. And the brickwork reminds me of a prison sometimes. A lot of it just needs some minor touch-ups.

But really, a roof would go a long way.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:34 AM

The growth and improvement of the Parkdale area which has now split into "Liberty Village" and generated plazas, townhouses, condos and tech business was a part of the plan of the city to improve the west-end....

just to add/argue a point that nothing to do with your overall post (which is 99% correct)

Liberty Village and Parkdale are really two different things.

For all intensive purposes, the growth of Liberty is much more related to the changes happening on King Street West than to what's going on in Parkdale. The redevelopment of Liberty was started well before BMO was built - and YES - you are correct that building a better CNE is a benefit to both Liberty and Parkdale, I think that really, they are two different topics.

When you look at King West and Liberty, most of the condo towers and commercial space used to be light industrial - like textiles and warehousing. When you hit Dufferin (the border of Liberty and Parkdale) you change from a zone of light industiral to dense residential. King West has some dense residential closer to bathurst, but all of King Steet near Shaw/Straghn was light industrial.

anyway, good post, but other than location, liberty village shares more with it's neighbour to the east, than to parkdale to the west.

Cashcleaner

02-23-2011, 11:36 AM

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:36 AM

Really? You don't think it's rather bare-bones in the slightest?

Firstly, not having a roof IS a bit of a big deal. There are clubs languishing in the Scottish 1st Div. that play in roofed stadiums. I would argue in a place like Toronto in high summer, a roof is as close to an essential stadium component as anything else.

Secondly, it's not so much that BMO Field is bad. It's not. It's just really all that great. But the kicker is that it wouldn't take much to really make the place shine. We've got plumbing exposed in the gap between 111 and 112. There's cold grey metal spars and beams everywhere. And the brickwork reminds me of a prison sometimes. A lot of it just needs some minor touch-ups.

But really, a roof would go a long way.

sure it's bare bones, but does that matter to me? Nope.

My sightlines are good, the lights are bright enough that I can see night games.
There's enough washrooms....

I really don't care about an exposed metal girder or the pipes in the roof.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:38 AM

As an aside, does anyone else remember the hotel or hotel/casino that was proposed for CNE grounds a few years back?

I wonder if that project is still a go? Would certainly tie-in well with the whole area re-development plan Roosgy mentioned.

it's coming.

the only major reason why the Convention Center gets bigger tradeshows than the Direct Energy Center is because of the attached hotel (the Continental on Front street)

rocker

02-23-2011, 11:38 AM

Really? You don't think it's rather bare-bones in the slightest?

Firstly, not having a roof IS a bit of a big deal. There are clubs languishing in the Scottish 1st Div. that play in roofed stadiums. I would argue in a place like Toronto in high summer, a roof is as close to an essential stadium component as anything else.

Secondly, it's not so much that BMO Field is bad. It's not. It's just really all that great. But the kicker is that it wouldn't take much to really make the place shine. We've got plumbing exposed in the gap between 111 and 112. There's cold grey metal spars and beams everywhere. And the brickwork reminds me of a prison sometimes. A lot of it just needs some minor touch-ups.

But really, a roof would go a long way.

sure, BMO is not "really all that great" but the people who complain make it sound like it's a shithole of the highest order. It's not a dump.

And indeed, if simply adding a roof would make the place shine, then it's already not that bad.

I didn't realize that supporters needed so much pampering though ;)

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:39 AM

oh.... and did I forget ..... GRASS!

the stadium IS being improved bit by bit.

and the North seats too!

things ARE getting better

Cashcleaner

02-23-2011, 11:40 AM

sure, BMO is not "really all that great" but the people who complain make it sound like it's a shithole of the highest order. It's not a dump.

And indeed, if simply adding a roof would make the place shine, then it's already not that bad.

I didn't realize though that supporters needed so much pampering though ;)

These does happen to be such a thing as "too much sun".

But yeah, the roof really is the only pressing matter when you look at the large picture.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:43 AM

These does happen to be such a thing as "too much sun".

http://images.usoutdoorstore.com/usoutdoorstore/products/full/or_helios_sunhat_sand07.jpg

being outside in the summer is a risk. that's just the world we live in now.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 11:53 AM

Even I go down to Parkdale and spend my discretionary money 100x more often than I did before BMO Field existed.

on fast drugs and cheap women?

;)

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 12:10 PM

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 12:11 PM

As an aside, does anyone else remember the hotel or hotel/casino that was proposed for CNE grounds a few years back?

I wonder if that project is still a go? Would certainly tie-in well with the whole area re-development plan Roosgy mentioned.

I think the city would be stupid not to put a Casino down there. It would be money. MONEY! And I mean a real one. Not one of those "reservation" casinos. Something along the lines of Casinorama would make a lot of sense.

Fort York Redcoat

02-23-2011, 12:13 PM

^Rama is a "reservation" Casino in principle. I hate the thought of what casino's bring to a town. Other than the money. But it would be hard to get me in one. I don't get the attraction myself.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 12:13 PM

sure it's bare bones, but does that matter to me? Nope.

My sightlines are good, the lights are bright enough that I can see night games.
There's enough washrooms....

I really don't care about an exposed metal girder or the pipes in the roof.

This works for me.

The only thing that I really need is a roof.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 12:14 PM

^Rama is "reservation" Casino in principle.

I meant more in terms of quality of a traditional "reservation" casino. Casinorama stands apart from most others wouldn't you say?

Yohan

02-23-2011, 12:14 PM

hindsight is 20/20...

would have been pretty retarded to build a 300million dollar stadium and only 10,000 people show up per game

Fort York Redcoat

02-23-2011, 12:17 PM

I meant more in terms of quality of a traditional "reservation" casino. Casinorama stands apart from most others wouldn't you say?

Ok Roogs. I'll gotta take your word for it. It's the only one I've been in.

and that was to see James Brown's last concert in Canada.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 12:20 PM

To an outsider there isn't much different. I know there is probably a definite dividing line between the two but most people won't know what it is. What is good for one neighbourhood is good for the other. West-end Toronto has benefitted from this improvement.

yeah, all of the south west side of downtown is benefiting from the improvements.

but yeah, Liberty Village's redevelopment has much more in common with the past 10 years of King West than the next 10 years of Parkdale.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 12:25 PM

Ok Roogs. I'll gotta take your word for it. It's the only one I've been in.

and that was to see James Brown's last concert in Canada.

Let me put it this way...you can't see concerts at other casinos.

Super

02-23-2011, 12:27 PM

These does happen to be such a thing as "too much sun".

But yeah, the roof really is the only pressing matter when you look at the large picture.

A roof would greatly improve the atmosphere - that to me is the only reason why I want it most of all at this time. With the late starts during the summer I'm less concerned about the sun.

But outside of that I really do think that BMO doesn't look or "feel" like a proper football stadium. Maybe a high school stadium for American football. A roof would change that. Unfortunately MLSE is less concerned about creating a proper and genuine football experience than they are about making money.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 12:30 PM

A roof would greatly improve the atmosphere - that to me is the only reason why I want it most of all at this time. With the late starts during the summer I'm less concerned about the sun.

But outside of that I really do think that BMO doesn't look or "feel" like a proper football stadium. Maybe a high school stadium for American football. A roof would change that. Unfortunately MLSE is less concerned about creating a proper and genuine football experience than they are about making money.

there's one big issue with the roof.

Atmosphere would be improved (sound mostly) with some kind of small roof, BUT if people stopped feeling like they are outside, atmosphere would suffer.

I'm sure a good architect could design a roof that would give us the benefits without closing us in.

backbeat

02-23-2011, 12:34 PM

Let me put it this way...you can't see concerts at other casinos.

i hate concerts at casinos - the atmosphere sucks - i think a lot of the tickets are packages for bus tours and the age limit doesn't allow kids - i'm not a big casino fan in general and they should have zero government support given the fact that they also treat gambling addiction through taxpayers dollars.

i certainly don't want one in Toronto but that's just my opinion

Auzzy

02-23-2011, 12:37 PM

LOL, Roogsy getting sidetracked by TFC's good financial results. That's why he's been so consistently happy with the on-field performance, happy with Mo & Preki, and always just telling fans & especially players to shut up & be thankful to this financially-successful organization... ;)

Yeah, BMO needs a bunch of work in addition to the roof, like heat & insulation for the bathrooms, deal with the water problems especially west-side concourse flooding, concession line-ups etc.... But the stadium as built made sense, after Toronto's recent bad history with pro soccer, and with TFC as the first member of "MLS 2.0." Plus the on-going improvements have been significant.

With the current Toronto government, it's good to highlight financial success & payback to the city. (Wasn't Grimes pro pointy-ball & anti-soccer at some point?) Of course we've paid for a good part of that success with our ticket prices. Of course on-field success has been lacking....

But of course the financial success does help the team eventually: probably one of the more expensive coaching & management staff lists in the league now; nice grass; expensive pre-season training arrangement this year; expensive training facility about to be built.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 12:53 PM

i hate concerts at casinos - the atmosphere sucks - i think a lot of the tickets are packages for bus tours and the age limit doesn't allow kids - i'm not a big casino fan in general and they should have zero government support given the fact that they also treat gambling addiction through taxpayers dollars.

i certainly don't want one in Toronto but that's just my opinion

I do agree that there is that moral issue. The way I figure it, the government should decide either way. If they think casinos are ok elsewhere, then they should be ok in Toronto. If they think the concept of casinos are not for government, then they should not allow them anywhere.

backbeat

02-23-2011, 12:59 PM

I do agree that there is that moral issue. The way I figure it, the government should decide either way. If they think casinos are ok elsewhere, then they should be ok in Toronto. If they think the concept of casinos are not for government, then they should not allow them anywhere.

completely agree!!

TFCRegina

02-23-2011, 01:01 PM

In case you hadn't heard:

Danny Dichio will take over the U-19 squad:
http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1219-Ohhhhh-Danny-Dichio

rocker

02-23-2011, 01:12 PM

i was just looking at Danny's website for the first time in ages... lookin spiffy here!

http://www.dichio24.com/images/home/header2.jpg

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 01:13 PM

^ that is one shiny suit.

Waggy

02-23-2011, 01:17 PM

The moral issue is why there shouldn't be casinos in Toronto? I looked at the Government of Ontarios books for a paper on economic policy last year, the largest money maker they have is the OLGC. 2nd is the LCBO. 3rd are Cigarette taxes. For all intensive purposes there isn't a 4th (though I guess that'd be income tax and formerly PST). I didn't realize people were squeemish now about where the money that builds our roads hospitals and stadiums comes from. I'm not a huge fan of gambling (I HATE losing) but it's a great draw for tourists, generally home to good bars and restaurants and would create a good scene. I don't know why anyone wouldn't want a casino (a-la Niagara, Windsor or Rama, not freaking Blue Heron) in Toronto.

And what's good for MLSE is ultimately good for TFC. Better they are making money then losing it right? If BMO is making money then it's way easier to justify spending money on it's improvement. You don't see billion dollar development plans around the skydome.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 01:23 PM

they do a casino during the CNE.

Waggy

02-23-2011, 01:24 PM

they do a casino during the CNE.

You ever gone in there? I've seen prison conventions that are cleaner/more welcoming then that place is.

menefreghista

02-23-2011, 01:30 PM

but it's a great draw for tourists,

I'm pretty sure that studies show that casino's do not add much to tourism. Most of the costumers end up being people from the area where the casino is located. Is there anywhere in North America these days where you aren't within an hour of a casino?

I'm convinced Toronto will never get a casino because it will just kill the two in Niagara and the one in Rama. The market is already saturated as it is.

Parkdale

02-23-2011, 01:33 PM

I'm pretty sure that studies show that casino's do not add much to tourism.

they certainly add a lot of peripheral crime (usually prostitution, petty theft, fights and assaults)

I think that bringing MORE of the negatives into the area would be a big setback.

Ageroo

02-23-2011, 02:19 PM

CMNT U-17 team qualifies for WC.......featuring two Academy products. With Kevin Aleman of TFC academy scoring in the 2-0 win of Trinidad.

http://www.concacaf.com/page/Under17s/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2300020,00.html (http://www.concacaf.com/page/Under17s/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2300020,00.html)

http://www.concacaf.com/javaImages/41/2b/0,,12813~9448257,00.jpg

Carts

02-23-2011, 02:33 PM

^ Good for the lads...!!!!

Hopefully this also means a bright future for our Senior Squad a few years down the line...

Super Cereal

02-23-2011, 03:11 PM

The NHL, which is not nearly as stable, has had to bail out clubs to stop them from removing and folding...

I question how much more stable the NBA teams are, with plenty of rumours regarding teams moving to various places, hell even Vancouver.

After the crock of shit that was the prop dunk contest, or as I called it, the NBA's fellating of Blake Griffin, I have a hard time calling myself an NBA fan these days.

CMNT U-17 team qualifies for WC.......featuring two Academy products. With Kevin Aleman of TFC academy scoring in the 2-0 win of Trinidad.

http://www.concacaf.com/page/Under17s/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2300020,00.html (http://www.concacaf.com/page/Under17s/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2300020,00.html)

http://www.concacaf.com/javaImages/41/2b/0,,12813~9448257,00.jpg

Great news. Love hearing good news with CNTs!

I'm pretty sure that studies show that casino's do not add much to tourism. Most of the costumers end up being people from the area where the casino is located. Is there anywhere in North America these days where you aren't within an hour of a casino?

Really? Among me and my group of friends, I can definitely say that's not true.

And where I live, the closest Casino is Lac Leamy, which is about a 2 and a half hour drive.

Roogsy

02-23-2011, 03:53 PM

After the crock of shit that was the prop dunk contest, or as I called it, the NBA's fellating of Blake Griffin, I have a hard time calling myself an NBA fan these days.

For real...what was that crap???

menefreghista

02-23-2011, 04:00 PM

Really? Among me and my group of friends, I can definitely say that's not true.

And where I live, the closest Casino is Lac Leamy, which is about a 2 and a half hour drive.

I was kind of exaggerating the closeness. But they are everywhere now. There's no denying that.

And it is true about the tourism angle. I remember seeing a study a few years back that most of the money spent at the Niagara casino's comes from Ontario residents.

If I'm going to travel far to get to a casino I will go to Las Vegas, not the lame-ass Ontario casinos.

werewolf

02-23-2011, 04:08 PM

MLS new playoff format to include 10 teams.

Nuvinho

02-23-2011, 04:11 PM

MLS new playoff format to include 10 teams.

3 automatic in each conference + 4 wildcard spots.

Darlofletch

02-23-2011, 04:13 PM

3 automatic in each conference + 4 wildcard spots.

so potentially 7 from the west?

Darlofletch

02-23-2011, 04:15 PM

For real...what was that crap???

if they need a new gimmick for the slam dunk contest, I've got an idea free of charge for them.

a defender.

let's see them pull off all that fancy shit with Ben Wallace* waiting under the basket for them.

*Or whoever today's version of ben Wallace is, it's been a long time since I've paid much attention.

Nuvinho

02-23-2011, 04:18 PM

So 10 teams - 3 automatic from each conference plus 4 wildcard spots. The 4 wildcard spots play a one game to move on.

RicoSuave44

02-23-2011, 04:20 PM

SSG looks like tons of fun :D

Darlofletch

02-23-2011, 04:23 PM

The seventh seed will host the 10th seed while the eighth seed hosts the ninth seed in a one-off playoff game to reach the final eight. The lowest remaining team will then meet the regular-season Supporters’ Shield winner and the second-lowest remaining seed will meet the other conference champion in the Conference Semifinals.

This system ensures that the Supporters’ Shield winner will play the lowest-seeded team available in the Conference Semifinals, a luxury not necessarily awarded to the regular season’s top team in the past.

So theoretically we could have a Toronto v Vancouver final, with toronto representing the west and vancouver the east?

fun!

werewolf

02-23-2011, 04:38 PM

created a thread, think league news of this caliber is worth its own thread.

johntv

02-23-2011, 04:40 PM

I just learned that Stinson signed a contract yesterday.

Shway

02-23-2011, 05:08 PM

I called Javier Martina to get signed
I called the U-17nats to win being 2-0,
Im calling Keven Aleman to be the tournament MVP
and Im calling him to be a future star for TFC, he is absolutely magnificent. He has the total football style that TFC is looking to play.

http://www.concacaf.com/javaImages/41/2b/0,,12813~9448257,00.jpg

EDIT: OH YEA, and this is the first time Canada has qualified for the U17 World Cup Since 1995!!!!! (its the jerseys, they will be history :))

ag futbol

02-23-2011, 06:49 PM

For real...what was that crap???
The nba does their best to f'up the dunk contest every year. The fact nate robinson is a dunk contest champion is a huge joke.

gcolacci

02-23-2011, 06:51 PM

The Casino-Hotel is said to be planned for the vacant woodbine lands on the 427 - These plans have been approved for years. There are the plans for this to be the entertainment center of Toronto - Also there is supposed to be space left in case of the need of a NFL stadium.

Dont quote me on any of this, but i am pretty sure i remember reading these details.

akoto

02-23-2011, 07:14 PM

There will not be a casino in downtown Toronto in the near future. OLG invested $1 billion to build Fallsview a few years ago and the majority of customers are from the GTA. Fallsview already isn't doing as well as they had projected and they wouldn't want that to get even worse. It will happen eventually but not in the near future. OLG already understands that the GTA's gambling needs are not being met but they are afraid of cannibalizing the ventures they already have. As for Rama OLG receives 30% of it's revenues which isn't a small amount of money.

akoto

02-23-2011, 07:15 PM

akoto

02-23-2011, 07:17 PM

so potentially 7 from the west?

I was just thinking the same thing. lol

ensco

02-23-2011, 07:23 PM

I don't like that MLSE press release. It really is smug, self-congratulatory, and a misdirection play.

They aren't doing anything special, TFC's rent was stipulated in the original deal and TFC rent is the vast majority of BMO Field revenue. BMO making a little money is not a function of management heroics. It's solely a function of the fact that BMO isn't being "charged" for the capital used to build it. We forget this here, but many taxpayers are still upset about the fact that three levels of government put up $50 million for BMO (MLSE put up only $10 million).

Even if that weren't true, earning 241K on $50 million is hardly something to feel good about.

MLSE is a massive recipient of public largesse. It dwarfs by a massive factor whatever they do that's for the community (whether it's building rinks or whatever). But they work hard to counter that fact with a pretty sophisticated PR campaign, of which this is only a small part.