A good read for all supporters

[canadian_bhoy]

Saw this GQ article on Usector's site.
While the article mocks the Sons of Ben, you could easily insert any MLS supporters group (including our own) in there.

Lots to think about in terms of what being a supporter really means - and what it should really be all about.

You hear the reporting talking about the same thing we see here with TFC

- People not caring about the match - not watching it, having to tape the match because they were too busy "supporting".

- Being a cheerleader

- worrying more about smoke bombs than whether or not TFC can score a goal.

- Being a marketing tool for MLS.

The funniest quote:
He's not a typical West Ham fan. He's quite nerdy. In fact everyone here is quite nerdy. (An American friend tells me, "That's because they're nerds.")

At the end of the day, I think the #1 issue is about being real. Not trying to create something that isn't there. It's about watching football with friends and being vocal in support. Not just being a cheerleader. Not trying to be the star of the show.

Not trying to be negative, but I think the article points out a lot of things that people should give a hard think about.

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/entertainment/articles/2011-02/04/gq-sport-america-mls-philadelphia-football-soccer-hooligans/sons-of-ben

[London]

:rolleyes:here we go again:rolleyes:

[Parkdale]

The funniest quote:
He's not a typical West Ham fan. He's quite nerdy. In fact everyone here is quite nerdy. (An American friend tells me, "That's because they're nerds.")



it's funny 'cause it's true!

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

the writer isnt exactly wrong...."who cares about the match, its all about having fun" is certainly a sentiment adopted at BMO by at least a few.

and im sure people at one point have thought what he mentions as it feels like role-play

[canadian_bhoy]

:rolleyes:here we go again:rolleyes:

Only brought it up because of the posted article. Take a read. I think it's hard for anyone to argue against his positions - although I will say that at times he is a little too hard on the MLS supporters and league.

[London]

i stopped reading when don garber said "terrorist attack"

sorry,

[Technorgasm]

for footy fans MLS makes it difficult to hold your attention. . has to be said.
also, th eculture is so young here, that it will take time to mature.

what other options do we have for live ball? CSL USL aside. . .

[London]

he sure tried to push the skinhead thing, i dont know of anyone who wants to be an "hooligan" around here

[MartinUtd]

Funny article. It brought back memories of some of the face palm moments I've had while being in the company of MLS supporters. The underlying point is dead on in that the product is a football match, not a frat party which was so beautifully illustrated with this passage:


Remm says he can smell white pizza and broccoli. "I miss college, dude," says Naioti.
"Me too," says Remm.

[MartinUtd]

he sure tried to push the skinhead thing, i dont know of anyone who wants to be an "hooligan" around here


It's here, just marginalized. Remember those guys that were spraying tags and wearing bandannas over their faces, proclaiming to the hardest TFC supporters? They had a shitty web site up, can't remember the name though.

[ensco]

Yeah, Philly's problem is the Sons of Ben, definitely

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/sports/pro/football&id=7888708
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/jamie-wert-cowboys-fan-al_n_420341.html?show_comment_id=37935016
http://thedp.com/node/50239
http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/santa/philadelphia.asp

[AL-MO]

It's here, just marginalized. Remember those guys that were spraying tags and wearing bandannas over their faces, proclaiming to the hardest TFC supporters? They had a shitty web site up, can't remember the name though.

It was something close to ICF (Inter City Firm - West Ham) wasn't it?

[MartinUtd]

A little google sleuthing brought me back to this post

http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=8438

I'm glad I never ran into those guys in the Mr Greek line.

[Milky]

I would not want to run into those guys on page 4 in a dark alley, that's for sure!

[Beach_Red]

You hear the reporting talking about the same thing we see here with TFC

- People not caring about the match - not watching it, having to tape the match because they were too busy "supporting".

- Being a cheerleader

- worrying more about smoke bombs than whether or not TFC can score a goal.





Sure, in the regular season, but this is why we (someday will) have playoff games - that's when it's all about the game on the field.







(ha ha, this could be fun....)

[Wagner]

good read.
Thanks C_B.

[v00d00daddy]

Saw this GQ article on Usector's site.
While the article mocks the Sons of Ben, you could easily insert any MLS supporters group (including our own) in there.

Lots to think about in terms of what being a supporter really means - and what it should really be all about.

You hear the reporting talking about the same thing we see here with TFC

- People not caring about the match - not watching it, having to tape the match because they were too busy "supporting".

- Being a cheerleader

- worrying more about smoke bombs than whether or not TFC can score a goal.

- Being a marketing tool for MLS.

The funniest quote:
He's not a typical West Ham fan. He's quite nerdy. In fact everyone here is quite nerdy. (An American friend tells me, "That's because they're nerds.")

At the end of the day, I think the #1 issue is about being real. Not trying to create something that isn't there. It's about watching football with friends and being vocal in support. Not just being a cheerleader. Not trying to be the star of the show.

Not trying to be negative, but I think the article points out a lot of things that people should give a hard think about.

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/entertainment/articles/2011-02/04/gq-sport-america-mls-philadelphia-football-soccer-hooligans/sons-of-ben

The guy is a bit hard on MLS but I think he's pretty close to the mark with SOME of the supporter mentality.

I have no problem with people wanting to chant all game and not watch the game. That's their choice. I just hate being told to cheer when I'm watching the game. (which has happened on more than one occassion on away trips and is the reason I probably won't away trip again....or at least sit with other TFC supporters).

A story to illustrate the point as it pertains to TFC away support:

I (with several friends) travelled to Boston a couple seasons ago to watch TFC. Getting there was brutal because our flight was cancelled and we ended up cramming 8 guys in a mini van and drove the ten hours. We rolled up a little over an hour before game time.

Sweet. We were excited as shit. We go down to congregate with the other TFC supporters and all is well. After 20 mins or so....all of which were filled by many supporters singing the same song OVER and OVER...I got called out for not singing along.

Now....I had sung it for the first couple of minutes but then I thought it was tired, and boring, and honestly...a distraction.

So a TFC supporter confronts my friends and I about our lack of singing and my reply is "I'm trying to watch the game. You know...the thing going on behind you" (the guy had been singing with his back to the field almost the whole time).

The guy's response:

"You came all the way to Boston JUST TO WATCH THE GAME? You could have done that from home"

I promptly told him to fuck off and left the section to watch the rest of the game from another vantage point.

To each their own...but if you're not watching the game WTF are you doing at the stadium?

I appreciate what the supporters bring to the stadium (chants, tifos, co ordination, undying support) but it's just too much for me when actually watching the game suffers.

Overall I think the crowd at BMO is not a very football savvy crowd. You know how some hockey arenas are filled with fans who know the game and miss very little?

BMO is not like that. A lot of people (when not ignoring the play entirely) spend half the game yelling at our players to shoot the ball just because they're arrived in the attacking half. It doesn't seem to matter that there are 5 defenders between the guy with the ball and the goal, or that the guy with the ball is almost incapable of hitting the net due to the fact that he's a CB or some shit like that.

It's painfully evident that many supporters have never played the game, or even watched the game (other than at elite levels). The footy IQ in the crowd has to come up quite a bit and that's only gonna happen by actually watching the game on the field.

Hopefully it gets better.

[Azerban]

so many...unread words...

[v00d00daddy]

so many...unread words...


I took the time to check out your previous posts. Read the last 10 or so and not ONE said anything relevant about the thread it was in.

It's as if you spin around threads looking for posts to reply to with bullshit snarky remarks.

Good work. Way to offer absolutely nothing to this thread as well.

At least you're consistent. lol

[Pigfynn]

http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/entertainment/articles/2011-02/04/gq-sport-america-mls-philadelphia-football-soccer-hooligans/sons-of-ben


Although I agree with some of what this article is saying. I have to say it reeks of british arrogance and that pisses me off.

The author clearly shows up in Phili with these guys to write the "you think you're authentic, but you're not" article. It's funny because this is a young league and there are A LOT of things wrong with it, but it deserves some real credit for the level of support that exists in it.

There are many premiership grounds that are silent or close to silent most weeks. Just because the history for the game is not as rich here doesn't mean that when people support their team - they are posers.

Even though he paints those guys as doucher wannabes (and people who watch green street and read thug books to emulate the behavior are btw) they are showing up and singing and most fans in this league just love their team and show it many different ways.That's nothing to shit all over IMO.

[Detroit_TFC]

This reminded me of the Man Utd fuckhead who made the You Tube video in 110, complaining the whole time about the chanting, lack of chanting, and every other thing during the game.

[canadian_bhoy]

Although I agree with some of what this article is saying. I have to say it reeks of british arrogance and that pisses me off.

The author clearly shows up in Phili with these guys to write the "you think you're authentic, but you're not" article. It's funny because this is a young league and there are A LOT of things wrong with it, but it deserves some real credit for the level of support that exits in it.

There are many premiership grounds that are silent or close to silent most weeks. Just because the history for the game is not as rich here doesn't mean that when people support their team - they are posers.

Even though he paints those guys as doucher wannabes (and people who watch green street and read thug books to emulate the behavior are btw) they are showing up and singing and most fans in this league just love their team and show it many different ways.That's nothing to shit all over IMO.

I agree that it does come across a bit harsh. The author does point out that most EPL grounds don't have much atmosphere anymore due to economics and all-seater stadiums.

I think the interesting point he makes is the question of what exactly are these people passionate about? They don't talk of the match or the players, they talk about supporters and how awesome they are.

Look how awesome we are - I didn't see the match - holier than thou. All things we hear in the article and all things we see @ BMO week in and week out.

Either way, I think it's an interesting read - but 100% hear you when you say that the author had a bit of an agenda or chip on his shoulder.

[Pookie]

^ I thought it was an interesting read.

As to the question about "what exactly are these people passionate about", I think about it like the concept of nationality.

People rally around concepts. I mean, what exactly is the nation of Canada? Or the USA? You can't really define a reason for the passion, it is simply there. In most cases, people will defend their country without really seeing the whole "match."

The simple truth is people like to unite for a common purpose. Whether that purpose is real or imagined is another story.

It doesn't really matter to me if people know the intricacies of the match. The important thing, the special thing, is that they show up.

Of course, nationalism can be taken too far which is what the concept of "riot" or "terrorist attack" is all about. But for the moment, I think folks are doing a fine job of walking the line.

That said, I will sympathize with the comments above regarding players being urged to "shoot." I also cringe when the Ref gets vilified for an offside call as if DeRosario or Barrett are incapable of mis-timing their runs... ever. But, it ain't perfect but it is a beautiful thing.

[MartinUtd]

I agree that it does come across a bit harsh. The author does point out that most EPL grounds don't have much atmosphere anymore due to economics and all-seater stadiums.

I think the interesting point he makes is the question of what exactly are these people passionate about? They don't talk of the match or the players, they talk about supporters and how awesome they are.

Look how awesome we are - I didn't see the match - holier than thou. All things we hear in the article and all things we see @ BMO week in and week out.

Either way, I think it's an interesting read - but 100% hear you when you say that the author had a bit of an agenda or chip on his shoulder.

Exactly. The author is highlighting the social club mentality that exists among MLS supporters clubs. You can argue whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing but it's pretty clear that some people take catching a game as a secondary (if that) affair. For example, look at the massive chant, how many heads are turned facing the crowd and not the game during the process? Before anyone jumps on that comment; I'm not trying to tell anyone how to have their fun, it's just a consistant observation.

[Pigfynn]

I agree that it does come across a bit harsh. The author does point out that most EPL grounds don't have much atmosphere anymore due to economics and all-seater stadiums.

I think the interesting point he makes is the question of what exactly are these people passionate about? They don't talk of the match or the players, they talk about supporters and how awesome they are.

Look how awesome we are - I didn't see the match - holier than thou. All things we hear in the article and all things we see @ BMO week in and week out.

Either way, I think it's an interesting read - but 100% hear you when you say that the author had a bit of an agenda or chip on his shoulder.

I agree that this does happen at BMO and you make good points.

I think though, it will be impossible for us all to agree on a way to support this team that everyone is happy with.

I think we are such a mixed bag that it's just not possible.

I agree with watching the game, but what do I know? :)

[torontocelt]

The guy is a bit hard on MLS but I think he's pretty close to the mark with SOME of the supporter mentality.

I have no problem with people wanting to chant all game and not watch the game. That's their choice. I just hate being told to cheer when I'm watching the game. (which has happened on more than one occassion on away trips and is the reason I probably won't away trip again....or at least sit with other TFC supporters).

A story to illustrate the point as it pertains to TFC away support:

I (with several friends) travelled to Boston a couple seasons ago to watch TFC. Getting there was brutal because our flight was cancelled and we ended up cramming 8 guys in a mini van and drove the ten hours. We rolled up a little over an hour before game time.

Sweet. We were excited as shit. We go down to congregate with the other TFC supporters and all is well. After 20 mins or so....all of which were filled by many supporters singing the same song OVER and OVER...I got called out for not singing along.

Now....I had sung it for the first couple of minutes but then I thought it was tired, and boring, and honestly...a distraction.

So a TFC supporter confronts my friends and I about our lack of singing and my reply is "I'm trying to watch the game. You know...the thing going on behind you" (the guy had been singing with his back to the field almost the whole time).

The guy's response:

"You came all the way to Boston JUST TO WATCH THE GAME? You could have done that from home"

I promptly told him to fuck off and left the section to watch the rest of the game from another vantage point.

To each their own...but if you're not watching the game WTF are you doing at the stadium?

I appreciate what the supporters bring to the stadium (chants, tifos, co ordination, undying support) but it's just too much for me when actually watching the game suffers.

Overall I think the crowd at BMO is not a very football savvy crowd. You know how some hockey arenas are filled with fans who know the game and miss very little?

BMO is not like that. A lot of people (when not ignoring the play entirely) spend half the game yelling at our players to shoot the ball just because they're arrived in the attacking half. It doesn't seem to matter that there are 5 defenders between the guy with the ball and the goal, or that the guy with the ball is almost incapable of hitting the net due to the fact that he's a CB or some shit like that.

It's painfully evident that many supporters have never played the game, or even watched the game (other than at elite levels). The footy IQ in the crowd has to come up quite a bit and that's only gonna happen by actually watching the game on the field.

Hopefully it gets better.

While I agree with you about most of the things I still think that TFC should be thankful they still have people turning up who are not real football supporters. Although these people may not understand the game their money is needed and hopefully they will leave with a better understanding of the game and spread the word. The initial shine of TFC is definitely diminishing and unless there is a play off spot this year then I reckon it will only get worse. I am not going to criticize people too much about their stupid comments or talking through games, as long as they are not being dicks I will be happy to see them continue to turn up for the occasional game.

[Bars92]

lets all do the bouncy!

[Technorgasm]

N6zFCl9SmN0

[Oldtimer]

Although I agree with some of what this article is saying. I have to say it reeks of british arrogance and that pisses me off.

The author clearly shows up in Phili with these guys to write the "you think you're authentic, but you're not" article.

That sentiment comes across loud and clear. It's like he can't respect the North American game for what it is.

For example:


The match is awful, with the players chasing the ball like children in a playground.
That's a gross exaggeration meant to disparage the game.

The English used to think they were so great, that no other nation was even close. In fact, they didn't enter the WC for some time because they were supposedly so much better than other nations.

Now they are forced respect other European teams like Italy and Spain and they respect Brazil, as well. However, the old attitudes still show up when Discussing the game in North America. I hate it.


i stopped reading when don garber said "terrorist attack"

sorry,

It's actually quite a reasonable fear. No nation has more enemies than the U.S., except for maybe North Korea.

[zeelaw]

He has some decent points... But once again the Brit mentality that only their way is the proper way to be a supporter has blinded him...

Legit concerns with us?

People organizing under TFC but only care to follow their European team and make enemies within the group that don't follow that team.

That shit pisses me off and man is it ever irrelevant right now lol.

[torontocelt]

I would be surprised if 50% of this article were true, I smell lazy journalism...

[London]

^^^ lazy arrogant writing is correct

[DOMIN8R]

As someone who has watched matches in Brazil, Mexico and Korea - I'm still floored that so many continue to see the EPL or other Euro leagues as the cultural centre of the football universe.

[GuelphStorm2007]

As someone who has watched matches in Brazil, Mexico and Korea - I'm still floored that so many continue to see the EPL or other Euro leagues as the cultural centre of the football universe.

I totally agree with you :scarf:

[Cashcleaner]

C_Bhoy, you and I must have differing takes on the word "good".

For anyone who wants to read the abridged version of the article:

Everything Americans do is inferior to what the British do, especially when it comes to sports - particularly soccer (Oops! I mean football). When the SoBs do anything remotely European, the writer implies that they are poseurs. When they do something unique or traditional for Philly, the writer thinks they aren't being true fans and just don't get it.

[TFCRegina]

C_Bhoy, you and I must have differing takes on the word "good".

For anyone who wants to read the abridged version of the article:

Everything Americans do is inferior to what the British do, especially when it comes to sports - particularly soccer (Oops! I mean football). When the SoBs do anything remotely European, the writer implies that they are poseurs. When they do something unique or traditional for Philly, the writer thinks they aren't being true fans and just don't get it.

This.

[Relja]

For me Ive always loved fudbal (soccer) and whenever I get to go to a TFC game i chant and sing my heart out. But at the same time I never take my eyes off the field. If you have ever sat beside me, you'll hear a long string of Yugoslavian swearing whenever a TFC player messes up. But then again we shouldn't blame the fans who don't pay attention. These people are paying money, just like we are, not for the game, but for the atmosphere. And so long as they don't cause trouble they should be able/allowed to do what they want. Some people just go out to feel like they belong or to have a good time. One of the major drawing factors for me to go to BMO field is to be in an atmosphere of happy people who like to be loud and show everyone how awesome we are as a city. My 2 cents.

[TFC Via Buffalo]

This reminded me of the Man Utd fuckhead who made the You Tube video in 110, complaining the whole time about the chanting, lack of chanting, and every other thing during the game.

Great. Thanks for reminding me about that. Now I'm pissed off all over again! One of the two or three games I miss the whole damn season and it's this asshole slagging on us and ripping Sparta behind his back. I'm sure he would have had some choice words about "the idiot behind me with the grass skirt." Not being there to defend us still makes me sick. Stuck up asshole. He was wearing a jersey and a hat and sitting there complaining the whole time about food and beer prices. Nobody put a gun to your head to buy any of that stuff or stay for the game, moron.

Ugh, sorry for the rant everyone. But, I've met quite a few "foreign" people at the games. (Technically, I'm one of them. :)) But, I mean people from Europe who now live in Canada and for the most part there is a great amount of respect for what we do. I think the snobbery is now a minority voice thanks to our efforts.

[DangerRed]

I took the time to check out your previous posts. Read the last 10 or so and not ONE said anything relevant about the thread it was in.

It's as if you spin around threads looking for posts to reply to with bullshit snarky remarks.

Good work. Way to offer absolutely nothing to this thread as well.

At least you're consistent. lol

Right on, voodoo. Couldn't agree more.

[phonzo]

C_Bhoy, you and I must have differing takes on the word "good".

For anyone who wants to read the abridged version of the article:

Everything Americans do is inferior to what the British do, especially when it comes to sports - particularly soccer (Oops! I mean football). When the SoBs do anything remotely European, the writer implies that they are poseurs. When they do something unique or traditional for Philly, the writer thinks they aren't being true fans and just don't get it.

:thumbsup:

[Azerban]

Right on, voodoo. Couldn't agree more.

yeah totally +1

[AL-MO]

Exactly. The author is highlighting the social club mentality that exists among MLS supporters clubs. You can argue whether or not that's a good thing or a bad thing but it's pretty clear that some people take catching a game as a secondary (if that) affair. For example, look at the massive chant, how many heads are turned facing the crowd and not the game during the process? Before anyone jumps on that comment; I'm not trying to tell anyone how to have their fun, it's just a consistant observation.

For what a minute, maybe 2 at very max?

Surely you can come up with a better example than that.

[prizby]

Last time I checked, this isn't the EPL or even England; if you want it to be like West Ham as pointed out, than move to London, England...put up or shut up

[canadian_bhoy]

For what a minute, maybe 2 at very max?

Surely you can come up with a better example than that.

How about when we gave up the hand ball oenalty against new York this season. People were dancing and chanting away in 112 and it took a good 3-5 mins before a good chunk of people In 112 had a clue that we had a penalty against us. They then freaked out and claimed it was total bullshit, even though it was a clear hand ball. Of course, since they werent watching the match, they didn't have a clue.

[AL-MO]

How about when we gave up the hand ball oenalty against new York this season. People were dancing and chanting away in 112 and it took a good 3-5 mins before a good chunk of people In 112 had a clue that we had a penalty against us. They then freaked out and claimed it was total bullshit, even though it was a clear hand ball. Of course, since they werent watching the match, they didn't have a clue.

I think that was one of the few games I missed this past season. :D

[AL-MO]

Last time I checked, this isn't the EPL or even England; if you want it to be like West Ham as pointed out, than move to London, England...put up or shut up

I would have to agree, this is not England.

[BeerBaron95]

I think that was one of the few games I missed this past season. :D

Me too. :D

[J .]

Yup everyone should just sit down, stuff themselves with chip butty and have that hush hush tut-tut stuffy mentality.

Lets take a handful of internet nerds or non-racist skinheads and paint everyone with that brush. Nice journalism. He points out that its nothing like In England, but almost glorifies that.

In fact many people who go are working class people, similar to England, but there are no traveling gangs wanting to fight. Also, there are fights at every sporting event, Argos and Ticats Ive seen one almost every game. Montreal and Toronto. People who want to fight will find other people who want to fight. Did he really think they were going to attack a couple? Seriously?

Even more funny is how the author almost points out how great the homecoming party was that trashed the city (he doesnt think there were fights, swearing and problems? OU makes Queens look like a tea party). This guy is an idiot.

I go to the games to the support the club. Thats that. What I miss Ill catch on the replay. I can actually watch the tactics and players then, formulate an educated opinion instead of nerding out on the net hoping that if I post 1000s of times my view will be taken as gospel.

There are sections to chill, relax and stuff your face and sections to lets go fucking mental, la la la la, as their should be.

And do not worry, MLSE will be pricing out the working class as soon as they can. The stuffys will have their Morgue by the Bay then, just like the one on Bay.

[DOMIN8R]

I am a section representative and I help capo. I attend meetings with other representatives and the heads of the SoBs. I am not a hooligan, and I am not a bovver boy. I do not care about the EPL and its casuals, bovver boys and firms. I care about the MLS. I care about Philadelphia. I care about the Union. (http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2011-02/07/gq-comment-sons-of-ben-supporter-responds)

[s2cazz]

I hope this stays in everyones mind along with our Columbus "incident" and the problems we had with our own press. This just cements the "Don't talk to journalists" rule. Everything is sensationalized and every effort is made to make us look like hooligans. We learned the hard way and now so did the union supporters.

[Brooker]

I want to be a hooligan. :/



^^^ lazy arrogant writing is correct

I agree but I guess the more of a cunt he is, the more hits he gets.... and I'm gonna assume he got a lot.

[London]

I want to be a hooligan. :/
.


what is the street behind the south end called??

you could be the (insert street name here) ST hooligans :D:D:D

[denime]

I am a section representative and I help capo. I attend meetings with other representatives and the heads of the SoBs. I am not a hooligan, and I am not a bovver boy. I do not care about the EPL and its casuals, bovver boys and firms. I care about the MLS. I care about Philadelphia. I care about the Union. (http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2011-02/07/gq-comment-sons-of-ben-supporter-responds)


and here is journalist response to Union:

Read founder of Match Fit USA and American football writer, Jason Davis' reaction to Andrew Hankinson's piece (http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2011-02/07/gq-comment-mls-philadelphia-union-supporters-sons-of-ben-andrew-hankinson-) here. (http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/comment/articles/2011-02/07/gq-comment-mls-philadelphia-union-supporters-sons-of-ben-andrew-hankinson-)

[Cashcleaner]

How about when we gave up the hand ball penalty against new York this season. People were dancing and chanting away in 112 and it took a good 3-5 mins before a good chunk of people In 112 had a clue that we had a penalty against us. They then freaked out and claimed it was total bullshit, even though it was a clear hand ball. Of course, since they weren't watching the match, they didn't have a clue.

That sort of thing is always going to happen, but is it really that big of a problem or nothing more just a few people not paying attention? I think that because we seem to be more critical of ourselves as supporters (which is mostly a good thing) we tend to focus on our faults more than others would.

[Iheartdero]

I dont understand why people are reacting negatively to this article. He doesnt make any assumptions really, other than refering to shaved headed bot wearing people as skinheads. Other than that he uses quotes and references to actual moments he witnessed. Sure he wrote it from a point of view but that point of view is backed by his personal experience. Journalism isnt meant to be a list of pros and cons, it is meant to spark discussion and research. And it expects its audience to be intelligent enough to not take it as gospel. He also makes a lot of good points. In showing how the "hooligans" aren't actually hooligans, they only dress like them, he hits the nail on the head. Are you guys honestly trying to tell me you havent seen it at BMO, even as a fringe? We need to remember we are 4 years old, and that context is important. Passion is great, but pretending to be a storied club is a role play, and I'll never understand for the life of me ever why anyone ever would go to a football game to not watch football. But that's just a difference of opinion I guess, and is why I'll always steer clear of the supporter group sections.

But to ignore this article as an attack, something it isnt, is a waste of energy. Also I dont know where in the article he claims the English are the be all and end all. Maybe we read different articles.

[DangerRed]

Yes, the writing is arrogant. Yes, the thesis is ridiculous and relies on a fallacy which makes it impossible for American soccer support to EVER be "authentic" without serious violence.

He's also very right -- how many people do you see at BMO, or any other ground in the MLS, posing to their utmost hardest, who don't know or couldn't give two shits about the football and are here to "sing and have fun?"

But you know what? I love them. I wouldn't have it any other way. If they like to sing with complete disregard for the club -- fantastic. It makes my matchday that much better.

Cheers to you, plastic fan. Keep on truckin'.

[Iheartdero]

So you'd prefer fake noise to authentic silence? The author thanks you for illustrating his point.

[trane]

Saw this GQ article on Usector's site.
While the article mocks the Sons of Ben, you could easily insert any MLS supporters group (including our own) in there.

Lots to think about in terms of what being a supporter really means - and what it should really be all about.

You hear the reporting talking about the same thing we see here with TFC

- People not caring about the match - not watching it, having to tape the match because they were too busy "supporting".

- Being a cheerleader

- worrying more about smoke bombs than whether or not TFC can score a goal.

- Being a marketing tool for MLS.


http://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/entertainment/articles/2011-02/04/gq-sport-america-mls-philadelphia-football-soccer-hooligans/sons-of-ben

How many of us have been making these or very, very similar points for four years?

[trane]

Now that I read the whole thread, this again is the split between "old" and "new" world supporters. It is a fundametal difference. I am not sure that it will ever be resolved.

[DangerRed]

So you'd prefer fake noise to authentic silence? The author thanks you for illustrating his point.

Not sure what sport you're watching, but there is no such thing as "authentic silence" in football support.

[Iheartdero]

Well I've seen first hand that there is such thing as fake noise. And the fake noise detracts from, and prevents the growth of, authentic noise

[MartinUtd]

For what a minute, maybe 2 at very max?

Surely you can come up with a better example than that.

Happens about 5 times during a match, now you're up around 6-10 minutes. There's also counting down from 10 to sing Danny Dichio, although that one seems to have died.

All of that stuff is fine, if that's how people want to spend their saturday afternoon then more power to them. But they shouldn't get bent out of shape when people arrive at the conclusion that a lot of fans are not there for the football.

[P-NUTZ]

fascinating articles and responses.

soccer is such a wonderful and beautiful game wherever and whenever it is played.

im really glad we have a team to experience all the ups and downs, pros and cons of being football fanatics.

ive played the game a real long time - and watching it on a saturday aft with all the action before, during and after is like nothing else.

having seen some of the frighteningly exhilirating versions of this game abroad doesn't make my experience here any less. in fact it simply makes me thankful to have it here at all.

Now if only these g****m f***king TFC m************S can win more games and get to the playoffs...

[Chevy]

what is the street behind the south end called??

you could be the (insert street name here) ST hooligans :D:D:D

There's something about "Princes' Boulevard Hooligans" that doesn't instill fear. :)

[AL-MO]

Yup everyone should just sit down, stuff themselves with chip butty and have that hush hush tut-tut stuffy mentality.

Lets take a handful of internet nerds or non-racist skinheads and paint everyone with that brush. Nice journalism. He points out that its nothing like In England, but almost glorifies that.

In fact many people who go are working class people, similar to England, but there are no traveling gangs wanting to fight. Also, there are fights at every sporting event, Argos and Ticats Ive seen one almost every game. Montreal and Toronto. People who want to fight will find other people who want to fight. Did he really think they were going to attack a couple? Seriously?

Even more funny is how the author almost points out how great the homecoming party was that trashed the city (he doesnt think there were fights, swearing and problems? OU makes Queens look like a tea party). This guy is an idiot.

I go to the games to the support the club. Thats that. What I miss Ill catch on the replay. I can actually watch the tactics and players then, formulate an educated opinion instead of nerding out on the net hoping that if I post 1000s of times my view will be taken as gospel.

There are sections to chill, relax and stuff your face and sections to lets go fucking mental, la la la la, as their should be.

And do not worry, MLSE will be pricing out the working class as soon as they can. The stuffys will have their Morgue by the Bay then, just like the one on Bay.

Agreed JDot.

[billyfly]

N6zFCl9SmN0

Like the voice at the beginning says "Yes it was amazing" and I wish I hadn't been so drunk that I could remember most of the 2nd half.

[billyfly]

I think we are at our best when we are a giant Red Horde destroying everything in our path.

[AL-MO]

I think we are at our best when we are a giant Red Horde destroying everything in our path.

.....And not stopping to think whether we are "authentic" or not and worrying about all the "fake noise" we make?

;)

I'd have to agree with you Billy.

[AL-MO]

Like the voice at the beginning says "Yes it was amazing" and I wish I hadn't been so drunk that I could remember most of the 2nd half.

Indeed it was and I was smack dab in the middle of it!

:flare:

[Cashcleaner]

I dont understand why people are reacting negatively to this article. He doesnt make any assumptions really, other than refering to shaved headed bot wearing people as skinheads. Other than that he uses quotes and references to actual moments he witnessed. Sure he wrote it from a point of view but that point of view is backed by his personal experience. Journalism isnt meant to be a list of pros and cons, it is meant to spark discussion and research. And it expects its audience to be intelligent enough to not take it as gospel. He also makes a lot of good points. In showing how the "hooligans" aren't actually hooligans, they only dress like them, he hits the nail on the head. Are you guys honestly trying to tell me you havent seen it at BMO, even as a fringe? We need to remember we are 4 years old, and that context is important. Passion is great, but pretending to be a storied club is a role play, and I'll never understand for the life of me ever why anyone ever would go to a football game to not watch football. But that's just a difference of opinion I guess, and is why I'll always steer clear of the supporter group sections.

But to ignore this article as an attack, something it isnt, is a waste of energy. Also I dont know where in the article he claims the English are the be all and end all. Maybe we read different articles.

How could people NOT take react negatively with that article? I have my doubts that you've read the whole thing, because his bias and derision are so obvious. In no way does he ever give the impression he was all that interested in really finding out what the Union Supporters were about and what they do - rather, it certainly sounds like he was just writing to affirm his believe that whatever Americans do will always be inherently stupid and "wrong".

If he was trying to be honest, he wouldn't be so contradictory which is exactly why so many have a problem with the article. One moment he's implying the group are a bunch of Euro-poseurs for copying the songs and flags from England, the next minute he's saying how silly it is when they partake in their own American traditions. He's made it a no-win situation for the Philly Supporters, and that's what makes it a bad article.

[Chevy]

.....And not stopping to think whether we are "authentic" or not and worrying about all the "fake noise" we make?

;)

I'd have to agree with you Billy.

Very true. I guess if you're sitting around thinking you're authentic then you're probably not.

[TorontoGooner]

I'm English, I don't think its fake. If you're bothered by what the Brits think its a fair chance you're trying too hard. Let's keep doing our thing. Like Chevy said:


Very true. I guess if you're sitting around thinking you're authentic then you're probably not.

Real support is when it hurts when you lose. If people want to go to games to drunk, that's fine, it's their call, at least its people through the gates. Go to any stadium in the world and about 60% are "true" fans. The rest are tag-alongs but who cares?

If you're a real fan you shouldn't care what people think about you or your team. And when you score, hugging complete strangers is a great thing!

[rocker]

i think the article is fine. There's no objective perspective possible on supporters in NA. It's just one view on a group of supporters. It's not "wrong" since there's no "right".

[Juanito]

Personally, if you're a Red Patch Boy, you're a supporter of TFC first. I like going to watch the match itself. Chanting and all is fun, but in my opinion, it's secondary. I like 112, but sometimes, I go to 116 to sit an watch the match, tactics, and all because I just can't do that in 112. It is not right or wrong, it just is what it is.

I'm sure we can all come to a compromise in our individual view of support.

[TFCRegina]

Personally, if you're a Red Patch Boy, you're a supporter of TFC first. I like going to watch the match itself. Chanting and all is fun, but in my opinion, it's secondary. I like 112, but sometimes, I go to 116 to sit an watch the match, tactics, and all because I just can't do that in 112. It is not right or wrong, it just is what it is.

I'm sure we can all come to a compromise in our individual view of support.

I typically stand at the top of 110 when I'm at matches, and I watch and sing the game at the same time. Nobody says you have to stop singing if you want to watch a match and vice versa. I know what people are getting at here, but really, it's possible to sing and watch the match at the same time...

[Oldtimer]

i think the article is fine. There's no objective perspective possible on supporters in NA. It's just one view on a group of supporters. It's not "wrong" since there's no "right".


... since there is no objective perspective on the RPB as supporters in North America, then I suppose you would think that there was nothing wrong with those articles that painted us as hooligans in Columbus?

I think most members would hasten to disagree with you on that point. Most of us were outraged by that insinuation. The S.O.B.'s are no different in that respect. Unfair is unfair.

[trane]

Personally, if you're a Red Patch Boy, you're a supporter of TFC first. I like going to watch the match itself. Chanting and all is fun, but in my opinion, it's secondary. I like 112, but sometimes, I go to 116 to sit an watch the match, tactics, and all because I just can't do that in 112. It is not right or wrong, it just is what it is.

I'm sure we can all come to a compromise in our individual view of support.


I agree with this. Also rhere has to be a way of doing both.

[London]

it's not that hard,

im not saying im the best supporter but i am able to wave a giant flag and i still see most of the match.

there are times that i miss certian points ( like what the players are doing right after a goal) but i understand that being a supporter means you will not see every second of action.

the only people i know of that would miss alot fo the match are the drummer and the capo, they deserve props for doing that.

Ive seen many people miss far more action because of going for beers and talking on there cellphones or texting than i see people turned around in 112

[jazzy]

I typically stand at the top of 110 when I'm at matches, and I watch and sing the game at the same time. Nobody says you have to stop singing if you want to watch a match and vice versa. I know what people are getting at here, but really, it's possible to sing and watch the match at the same time...

yup...singing/watching, .... floating in and out of both as one sees fit is how I roll...lol....but the only thing that is not fun imho, are people usually drunk, showing off, for their friends, never singing with others, or worse purposely out of sync, and trying to be the centre of attention for their tourist friends....that used to happen at the top of 111.......but I believe this year, many peers have bought up those tourist seats...and could be willing to contribute to the overall fun.......yes because over in 110 they had it going

[BeerBaron95]

Why is this ridiculous article getting any attention whatsoever... I will agree with a few points in it but the vast majority of the article is 100% useless drivel. I read this earlier in the day before it was posted here and had a laugh at how stupid it was and wish I had those few mins of my life I took to read it back.


it's not that hard,

im not saying im the best supporter but i am able to wave a giant flag and i still see most of the match.

there are times that i miss certian points ( like what the players are doing right after a goal) but i understand that being a supporter means you will not see every second of action.

the only people i know of that would miss alot fo the match are the drummer and the capo, they deserve props for doing that.

Ive seen many people miss far more action because of going for beers and talking on there cellphones or texting than i see people turned around in 112

All great and valid points Pat.. funny how a guy waving a massive flag on a 10ft pole has absolutely no problems following whats going on and is able to watch the match and stands in a supporter section (112)

don't forget the ppl that are making plans of where they are going that night and what they have planned for the rest of the weekend and such.

My sister wanted to punch 2 chicks in the back of their heads 1 time cause they spent the first 20 mins looking at pics on each others phones without once looking at the field... no joke.

I wont say more on the subject as it will only cause friction here... but this kind of stuff is far too often seen @ BMO and in 'supporters sections' as I use the term loosely

[Suds]

I typically stand at the top of 110 when I'm at matches, and I watch and sing the game at the same time. Nobody says you have to stop singing if you want to watch a match and vice versa. I know what people are getting at here, but really, it's possible to sing and watch the match at the same time...

Yep.

People should see me walk and chew gum at the same time. Fascinating talent. I've even learned to tie my shoe while talking on the phone.

[TorontoGooner]

Yep.

People should see me walk and chew gum at the same time. Fascinating talent. I've even learned to tie my shoe while talking on the phone.

Haha! Spot on! :D

[james]

there is many teams around the world big or small where the atmosphere takes a bit away from actually watching the game. Just look at many teams such as Boca Juniors, River Plate, Urawa Reds, Iris, St.pauli, Merseille, AC Milan exc.....they got so many flags, flares, streamers, banners and crazyness going on at the stadiums thats its inpossible to see everything, but at the same time those fans love there teams, celebrate there team, live for there teams and go mental at everygame and make it look like one hell of a party to be at. But no one ever goes and tells these teams fans off for doing so.

[BeerBaron95]

there is many teams around the world big or small where the atmosphere takes a bit away from actually watching the game. Just look at many teams such as Boca Juniors, River Plate, Urawa Reds, Iris, St.pauli, Merseille, AC Milan exc.....they got so many flags, flares, streamers, banners and crazyness going on at the stadiums thats its inpossible to see everything, but at the same time those fans love there teams, celebrate there team, live for there teams and go mental at everygame and make it look like one hell of a party to be at. But no one ever goes and tells these teams fans off for doing so.


100% correct

[sweetlemon69]

This author has never played competitive then. There's nothing better than the feeling of the 12th man on the pitch when you're morally down and your team needs that slight pickup that your captain struggles to do. Supporters should never quit what they do. This guy should go back to playing baseball or basketball.

[KRO]

The SOB's responded to the GQ article

http://www.matchfitusa.com/2011/02/response-from-sons-of-ben-member.html