MLS Roster Rules Released

[Phil]

Lets take a look....

http://www.mlssoccer.com/2011-mls-roster-rules

[Phil]

The two MLS clubs based in Canada – Toronto FC and Vancouver Whitecaps FC – began with eight international slots, but their domestic slots may be filled with either Canadian or U.S. domestic players.
MLS clubs based in Canada are required to have a minimum of three Canadian domestic players on their rosters.
Players with the legal right to work in Canada are considered Canadian domestic players (i.e., Canadian citizen, permanent resident, part of a protected class).

[reggie]

wow..thats interesting. only 3 canadians.

[Phil]

Allocation money is a resource available to clubs in addition to their respective salary budgets.

A club may receive allocation money for:

(1) failure to qualify for the MLS Cup Playoffs;

(2) the transfer of a player to a club outside of MLS for value;

(3) expansion status;

(4) qualification for the CONCACAF Champions League;

[TFCRegina]

The two MLS clubs based in Canada – Toronto FC and Vancouver Whitecaps FC – began with eight international slots, but their domestic slots may be filled with either Canadian or U.S. domestic players.
MLS clubs based in Canada are required to have a minimum of three Canadian domestic players on their rosters.
Players with the legal right to work in Canada are considered Canadian domestic players (i.e., Canadian citizen, permanent resident, part of a protected class).

Sounds like bullshit.

They should make it eligibility for Canadian National team, and a higher number.

[Yohan]

Sounds like bullshit.

They should make it eligibility for Canadian National team, and a higher number.
I think I'm hearing the CMNT support in you ;)

[reggie]

i think its a 2011 thing only,im sure it will increase in the next few years.3 seems really low.

[Phil]

Sounds like bullshit.

They should make it eligibility for Canadian National team, and a higher number.

I think the intent is to have the number low until development catches up.

If MLS demand too much Canadian content on the teams it will mean a major stress on an alredy small pool.

I like the idea of developing through academy for this reason. It means Canada gets better players as does TFC.

[Shway]

what is the purpose of the term "Generations Adidas players"? if players from 21-30 are already exempt from the cap.

what is the purpose of the term "Homegrown" Player? If the players signed are not exempt from 30 man roster like previous years?

[Huyton]

I'm surprised that they don't have to start with three Canadians on the field, just have three on the roster.

[JonO]

what is the purpose of the term "Generations Adidas players"? if players from 21-30 are already exempt from the cap.

what is the purpose of the term "Homegrown" Player? If the players signed are not exempt from 30 man roster like previous years?
Still thinking about the first, but for the second your homegrown player gets to avoid the draft etc...

[JonO]

Hmmm... maybe it's just me, but I am surprised there is no maximum salary (or maximum playing time) for an "off-budget" player. There must be something because it seems like a pretty big loophole to circumvent the cap

[Fort York Redcoat]

6 Canadians have to play in MLS. 9 next year. Well, MLS is letting us compete but at the expense of our Nation. For now.

[JonO]

what is the purpose of the term "Generations Adidas players"? if players from 21-30 are already exempt from the cap.
Okay - from the website it says the only difference between GA and Homegrown (from a team's perspective) is how they are acquired. From a player's perspective, the difference is in additional incentive they receive to leave college early. Educational stipend, etc...

[Shway]

^^thanks JonO,

but it still doesn't have the same effect as the latter year

[Wooster_TFC]

While the rules are much better than usual, I'm perplexed by the Off-Budget Players. What's to stop a team like LA or NY from signing 20 players, and then 10 more players at league max as Off-Budget Players? Unless they have a "must sort roster spots by budget cost" requirement

[Stouffville_RPB]

The maximum budget charge for a single player is $335,000.*

So if DeRo was making 400+ last season is he now a DP?

[oxygenatedbrain]

Hmmm... maybe it's just me, but I am surprised there is no maximum salary (or maximum playing time) for an "off-budget" player. There must be something because it seems like a pretty big loophole to circumvent the cap

Last year, slots 21-24 were league min. It was announced when first details about the new cba were outlined that any additional slots resulting from the reintroduction of the reserve league would be 31,250. This year league minimum is 42k. So Ga contracts exceed league minimum amounts, but can occupy these slots. Academy players can now be signed to Ga contracts as well, limit of two.

[Stouffville_RPB]

what is the purpose of the term "Generations Adidas players"? if players from 21-30 are already exempt from the cap.


I don't know why i think this but doesn't Adidas pay their salary since they are signed with Adidas?

[Pookie]

This is important stuff particularly in light of the debate over DeRo and cap hit.

From what I've been reading the following applies:

- only the base salary counts against the cap
- the maximum cap hit for ANY player (DP or not) is $335k.

As an example, DeRo's base salary is $375k but using allocation money his salary has been bought down to a maximum of $335k. Any of his bonuses do not factor into the mix.

That's without the DP tag.

All this talk about savings if he got the DP tag is moot.

Further any talk of "buy out" has to be done before the season starts in order to free up cap space.

[Huyton]

The other announcement today was Houston moving to the east division.

[JonO]

Last year, slots 21-24 were league min. It was announced when first details about the new cba were outlined that any additional slots resulting from the reintroduction of the reserve league would be 31,250. This year league minimum is 42k. So Ga contracts exceed league minimum amounts, but can occupy these slots. Academy players can now be signed to Ga contracts as well, limit of two.
From the MLS website:

Players occupying roster spots 1-24 will earn at least $42,000 in 2011.
Players occupying roster spots 25-30 will earn at least $32,600 in 2011.

(emphasis added) So, although they can be at league min., they don't have to. Like I said, this seems to be a summary of the rules, so there is likely something left out, but it does leave one scratching one's head...

[oxygenatedbrain]

From the MLS website:

Players occupying roster spots 1-24 will earn at least $42,000 in 2011.
Players occupying roster spots 25-30 will earn at least $32,600 in 2011.

(emphasis added) So, although they can be at league min., they don't have to. Like I said, this seems to be a summary of the rules, so there is likely something left out, but it does leave one scratching one's head...

How about "unless they are on a GA contract?"...because the same "at least" could apply to any roster slot?

EDIT: Or having just looked at the 2011 regs, maybe that $70 k optional allocation for two empty dev slots could be used to augment the other devs?

[JonO]

How about "unless they are on a GA contract?"...because the same "at least" could apply to any roster slot?
Right - but roster slots 1-20 count towards the cap. Slots 21-30 don't. So the phrase "at least" also applies to slots 1-20, but that is tempered by a combination of the max salary and salary cap.

Arguably, the $335k max doesn't even apply to the players in slot 21-30 because they are "off-budget". If I get the chance I am going to try find a copy of the actual rules somewhere...

[TFCRegina]

I think I'm hearing the CMNT support in you ;)

That's correct.

Although really, I don't think there should be any quotas in this league at all.

Canucks would make the squad, especially with the new academies, if there were no quotas for Americans and Canadians. It'd be a small amount at the start, but would grow over time. The league would primarily be latin americans and europeans if that were the case, but that would change with player development.

But if we have quotas, we might as well have ones that protect us I guess.

[Oldtimer]

I don't know why i think this but doesn't Adidas pay their salary since they are signed with Adidas?

They are signed with MLS. Adidas funds their salaries.

[TFC14]

Does this go both ways? Do Canadian's count towards domestic slots on American teams now too?

[netsan]

What irks me is why the Canadian teams can treat both American and Canadian players as domestic.

However, American teams only treat Canadians as internationals. This is a double standard.

At the very least the American teams should be allowed to sign up to 3 Canadians as domestic players to even it out. This will give more opportunity for Canadians to play in the league.

[TFC14]

What irks me is why the Canadian teams can treat both American and Canadian players as domestic.

However, American teams only treat Canadians as internationals. This is a double standard.

At the very least the American teams should be allowed to sign up to 3 Canadians as domestic players to even it out. This will give more opportunity for Canadians to play in the league.
Agreed...and you answered my question

[netsan]

The news states that each team starts with 8 internationals which can be traded. What happens if a team decides to stockpile or dump internationals? This will cause a permanent imbalance in the distribution of internationals among the teams..

Is the trading of international allocations time limited, or permanent?

[TFC14]

I think it's over 'x' amount of years...but I may not be right on that. For instance you could trade a player for an international slot for 3 years...after that time it returns...don't quote me on that tho

[Oldtimer]

(4) qualification for the CONCACAF Champions League;

This is fascinating. It goes against everything that North American sports leagues stand for! Rewarding success? Normally you punish success in the name of "parity." The worse you are, the more help you get. This is a significant step away from that, and shows that MLS is taking the CCL seriosly.

[Thrillos]

This is important stuff particularly in light of the debate over DeRo and cap hit.

From what I've been reading the following applies:

- only the base salary counts against the cap
- the maximum cap hit for ANY player (DP or not) is $335k.

As an example, DeRo's base salary is $375k but using allocation money his salary has been bought down to a maximum of $335k. Any of his bonuses do not factor into the mix.

That's without the DP tag.

All this talk about savings if he got the DP tag is moot.

Further any talk of "buy out" has to be done before the season starts in order to free up cap space.

Actually its not "moot" because we are using allocation money to lower his salary, where as if he was a DP then the allocation that is used on his salary to bring it down, can be used on someone else's salary to bring it down freeing up even more cap space..... So I would say your argument of non-savings from a DP tag is moot. :D

[Whoop]

But wouldn't it hinder in getting the DP that Winter/Mariner are talking about possibly in March?

[Thrillos]

But wouldn't it hinder in getting the DP that Winter/Mariner are talking about possibly in March?

Where allowed 3 DP's at the price of 250k from MLSE's pocket, which I don't think is that big of a deal to them, considering the trip to Turkey is probably costing them that much.

[Whoop]

Well, Pookie is half right though in that is a moot point only because MLS won't let TFC give DeRo DP status.

[Whoop]

Anyway this is the roster rules thread.

I have no issue with the quotas.

[billyfly]

MLS for Van City, TFc and MTL will be like the CFL. You are only as good as your weakest Canadian player.

[damphousse]

I can understand frustration with having to accept rules that seem unfair, but remember that MLS is, after all, a US league. The new rule is similar to that which allowed Toronto more internationals but stipulated that it had to use US players to fill some of the additional spots; Canadian teams will get some protection and help, but they'll have to make room for US players while they're at it. MLS never would have gone into Canada - or wouldn't have been allowed to - if such rules weren't in place. By the way, Canadian players will never be treated as domestics in the US. As you know, such favoritism is against US law and politically it would be the hottest of hot potatoes. The US is now the world's second largest Spanish-speaking country. Extending a benefit to Canadians that can't be extended to Latin Americans, or anyone else, is unthinkable. Such is the messiness of being guests in someone else's league.

[Thrillos]

MLS won't let Toronto use DeRo as a DP??? did i miss this somewhere???

[Whoop]

-> See DeRo Celtic thread

[Thrillos]

I'm not sifting through the useless drivel that 99% of that thread is composed of.

[Whoop]

I put the quote there. Last post.

****
I think the whole quota thing is overblown. As long as TFC has it's academy they can produce Canadian talent. And if they're good enough for the MLS, they'll be good enough for the MLS.

Like damphousse said, we can't forget the MLS is an American league whether we like it or not.

[Pookie]

Actually its not "moot" because we are using allocation money to lower his salary, where as if he was a DP then the allocation that is used on his salary to bring it down, can be used on someone else's salary to bring it down freeing up even more cap space..... So I would say your argument of non-savings from a DP tag is moot. :D

You are making a big assumption in suggesting allocation money is transferable in this case.

MLS makes this money available in "exceptional" circumstances and the renegotiation of DeRo's contract in 2008 that gave him a base over the league max would probably have been one of those cases.

In saying that, the allocation of money is likely tied to this deal. Much like any monies allocated to the NYRB for Henry or Marquez probably can't be used on some crazy shopping spree. If the player goes, likely the money follows.

Even if that turns out to be false, we are talking about 40k savings (375 - 335) so I would still use the word moot.

[Yohan]

Even if that turns out to be false, we are talking about 40k savings (375 - 325) so I would still use the word mute.
you mean moot ;)

[Auzzy]

I think he's trying to mute the discussion.

[ag futbol]

Does this go both ways? Do Canadian's count towards domestic slots on American teams now too?
Agreed, this should be how it works.

Shouldn't be a big deal if we are really that far behind developing players.

[Oldtimer]

Please don't discuss DeRo in this thread, there is already a thread for that.
This thread is about roster Rules.

[TFC14]

Agreed, this should be how it works.

Shouldn't be a big deal if we are really that far behind developing players.
Yeah very true...I see this as definitely a benefit for TFC, Vancouver and Montreal next year (assuming the rules stay the same), I wonder how it will affect CMNT down the road. I'm assuming it won't affect it that much. I think as fans we like to see our homegrown boys out there on the pitch, if they're good enough they will be. There will still likely be 4 Canadian's starting for TFC next year (DeRo, DeGuz, Nana and Caan) with a few academy players likely to make this team as well. With the money Toronto's putting into the academy system I think we'll continue to develop Canadian MLS players...just now we won't be hamstrung into filling our team with Canadian's simply because of their nationality. If you look down the list of Canadian's who have been on this team, most are now playing in lower divisions, USL, CSL...I'm happy as a fan that we no longer have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill our roster.

On a side note... Miguel Cañizalez now plays for Bonner SC...Bonner