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denime
01-27-2011, 06:18 AM
Mornin'



Winter Shows Ambition (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/winter-shows-ambition)


Omphroy Unburdened (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/omphroy-unburdened)


TFC Assembles Key Actors (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/tfc-assembles-key-actors)


TFC's De Rosario holds firm on contract demands (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/01/26/sp-tfc-derosario.html)


TFC's prodigal son appears ready to roll (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/the-worlds-game/tfcs-prodigal-son-appears-ready-to-roll/article1883818/)


De Rosario's contract woes (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2011/01/26/17049641.html)


Complain Dwayne – then shut up (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2011/01/26/17049596.html)


Kelly: No raise, no play, TFC captain warns (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/928745--kelly-no-raise-no-play-tfc-captain-warns)


TFC 'hit nail on the head' with coach Winter (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2011/01/26/17047546.html)


De Guzman talks injury (http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/latest/Julian-de-Guzman-1on1) -Video


Top-pick Omphroy excited (http://www.sportsnet.ca/video/latest/Demitrius-Omphroy-1on1) -Video




SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

jimiv
01-27-2011, 06:31 AM
Good Morning Sir.

Batman
01-27-2011, 07:32 AM
Will you be getting overtime pay today Denime?

Thanks again for all the work.

Red CB Toronto
01-27-2011, 08:02 AM
Good morning to all, always enjoy the one stop place for all my TFC news.

scooter
01-27-2011, 08:29 AM
mornin d

Fort York Redcoat
01-27-2011, 08:36 AM
Holy crap. Looks like a busy day for Toronto press. And Denime. And then Roogsy.

Darlofletch
01-27-2011, 08:41 AM
We're building a winning culture everyone's positive, and then here comes dero to leave a giant turd on to all of that. (http://www.cruelgeography.com/2011/01/new-management-same-old-tfc.html)

Dudebroguy
01-27-2011, 08:46 AM
Craziest fans shout out on MSN.

http://sports.ca.msn.com/other/photos/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=27384623&page=1

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 08:47 AM
We're building a winning culture everyone's positive, and then here comes dero to leave a giant turd on to all of that. (http://www.cruelgeography.com/2011/01/new-management-same-old-tfc.html)

Oh boy, another article pissing on De Ro for trying to secure his future. I find it hard to have sympathy for another person who comments on De Ro wanting more money without ever understanding the serious hit in income he's going to take in the next couple years when he retires.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-27-2011, 08:51 AM
shoulda worked for the city or shoulda asked for a bigger contract first time around.
dudes made what? 2 million in the last 4-5 years on salary alone, not counting advertisements.
I dont feel that bad

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 08:54 AM
shoulda worked for the city or shoulda asked for a bigger contract first time around.
dudes made what? 2 million in the last 4-5 years on salary alone, not counting advertisements.
I dont feel that bad

2 million in 4-5 years is not much over a lifetime. Even over five years that's only 400,000 a year.

And that will fall significantly as he ages.

I can't and won't blame him for wanting to get paid what he is worth to this team, especially when the income falls off pretty rapidly afterwards.

scooter
01-27-2011, 08:57 AM
We're building a winning culture everyone's positive, and then here comes dero to leave a giant turd on to all of that. (http://www.cruelgeography.com/2011/01/new-management-same-old-tfc.html)

dero needs to go away --- no way should he be blackmailing the team or mlse

Carts
01-27-2011, 08:57 AM
Holy crap. Looks like a busy day for Toronto press. And Denime. And then Roogsy.

HAHAHAHA.... Epic line...

Well played... :D

MG42
01-27-2011, 09:00 AM
Oh boy, another article pissing on De Ro for trying to secure his future. I find it hard to have sympathy for another person who comments on De Ro wanting more money without ever understanding the serious hit in income he's going to take in the next couple years when he retires.

oh honestly, really? His not taking an "income hit" in retirement should have been well planned out before now lol what a joke.

snoopdog
01-27-2011, 09:01 AM
Hello, and good morning to all,

'denime' Great Job Researching all things TFC !

Ageroo
01-27-2011, 09:02 AM
Dude is giving Guyanese people a bad rep.......:)

Chevy
01-27-2011, 09:03 AM
Oh boy, another article pissing on De Ro for trying to secure his future. I find it hard to have sympathy for another person who comments on De Ro wanting more money without ever understanding the serious hit in income he's going to take in the next couple years when he retires.

Oh Boo-F**king Hoo. Maybe you should start a pension fund for him.

ManUtd4ever
01-27-2011, 09:03 AM
It's a shame that today's headlines are dominated by the DeRo contract controversy overshadowing the optimism expressed by incumbent players (including DeRo) and recent draft picks looking forward to working under Aron Winter's tutelage.

If only DeRo had worn a muzzle after the press conference, everything would be fine today. :p

At the very least, it appears that this situation will be resolved one way or another by the start of the season, with or without DeRo, and not linger throughout the year...

mastermixer
01-27-2011, 09:04 AM
dero needs to go away --- no way should he be blackmailing the team or mlse

This has to be settled ASAP regardless of who is right or wrong. If DeRo thinks he is 'at risk' playing a game without a new contract how much use is he going to be during camp?

Auzzy
01-27-2011, 09:06 AM
2 million in 4-5 years is not much over a lifetime. Even over five years that's only 400,000 a year.

And that will fall significantly as he ages.

I can't and won't blame him for wanting to get paid what he is worth to this team, especially when the income falls off pretty rapidly afterwards.

The guy is lining up DeroEnt and is generally a very ambitious guy. I'm sure he will do well as long as he wants to work. I don't know if he will be making more or less than his current $450k, but I bet he will be earning more than 90% of TFC for many years to come. Nothing to get worried about, nobody is gonna starve.


EDIT: meant to say, more than 90% of TFC supporters

ManUtd4ever
01-27-2011, 09:15 AM
The guy is lining up DeroEnt and is generally a very ambitious guy. I'm sure he will do well as long as he wants to work. I don't know if he will be making more or less than his current $450k, but I bet he will be earning more than 90% of TFC for many years to come. Nothing to get worried about, nobody is gonna starve.

DeRo's public antics will have a negative impact on his marketing potential and earnings in the GTA after he retires. I can't understand why he's chosen to go down this path...

Ossington Mental Youth
01-27-2011, 09:16 AM
2 million in 4-5 years is not much over a lifetime. Even over five years that's only 400,000 a year.

And that will fall significantly as he ages.

I can't and won't blame him for wanting to get paid what he is worth to this team, especially when the income falls off pretty rapidly afterwards.

2 million dollars is more than what i have ever made and more than what most people have made. You could easily live a comfortable lifestyle with 2 million dollars. Unless dude is pissing his money away on things.

I dont begrudge him wanting more money, i do begrudge how hes behaved in trying to get that money

McBrace
01-27-2011, 09:16 AM
2 million in 4-5 years is not much over a lifetime. Even over five years that's only 400,000 a year.

And that will fall significantly as he ages.

I can't and won't blame him for wanting to get paid what he is worth to this team, especially when the income falls off pretty rapidly afterwards.

Really??? I don't know many people that make that kind of money over a lifetime.. I guess the more you make the more you spend..

I'm sure he won't be living on the streets anytime soon..

snoopdog
01-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Did we know the Dutch colonised Guyana?

Mark in Ottawa
01-27-2011, 09:18 AM
Oh boy, another article pissing on De Ro for trying to secure his future. I find it hard to have sympathy for another person who comments on De Ro wanting more money without ever understanding the serious hit in income he's going to take in the next couple years when he retires.
He renegotiated. Didn't have to. There was no gun to his head.
If the team/league chooses to make him honour his existing contract... c'est la vie. If he thinks he can make more elsewhere he is free to try and entice someone to buy up his existing contract and pay him more.

Retirement woes? Get real. I am retiring soon. Knew I would be and planned accordingly. I will take a huge pay hit and will, like many others, have to learn to live with it. DeRo is retiring from football eventually... but that is not the end of life.
If he faces finacial hardship that is because he didn't do his homework and plan ahead.

Second career? Many people have had them and for ex-atheletes... the rules are the same.

Auzzy
01-27-2011, 09:18 AM
DeRo's public antics will have a negative impact on his marketing potential and earnings in the GTA after he retires. I can't understand why he's chosen to go down this path...

Good point. However, some might say "there's no such thing as bad press" when you want to be involved in the entertainment industry. ;) Plus he still has a few years to rectify his image in the Toronto area, or to build his image in some other city on the planet. If he decides to.

keem-o-sabi
01-27-2011, 09:19 AM
coed girls 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/01/25/miss-coed-carley-blunt-pics/) and 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/01/21/miss-coed-nicole-duminie-48-pics/)

Auzzy
01-27-2011, 09:20 AM
Did we know the Dutch colonised Guyana?

But Winter & his family are actually from Suriname, also involved with the Netherlands during the colonial period, although a bit more complicated...

BakaGaijin
01-27-2011, 09:21 AM
2 million in 4-5 years is not much over a lifetime. Even over five years that's only 400,000 a year.

And that will fall significantly as he ages.

I can't and won't blame him for wanting to get paid what he is worth to this team, especially when the income falls off pretty rapidly afterwards.

You do know that 2 million is more money than most Canadians make in their lifetime don't you?

If he hasn't invested a large portion of that money than he is a fool.

If he can't get by for the rest of his life with what he has been paid to kick a ball around, then he can get a real job like the rest of us.

Batman
01-27-2011, 09:21 AM
Has he burnt so many bridges, that he wont be able to WORK at anything when he retires from playing?

Come to think of it, maybe he has!

What's he planning on doing for the next 30 years?

I wonder why pro athletes always use the argument that they have to earn a bundle during their playing years because their careers are short. They should have a good look at the rest of society.

woolly
01-27-2011, 09:27 AM
2 million in 4-5 years is not much over a lifetime. Even over five years that's only 400,000 a year.

And that will fall significantly as he ages.

I can't and won't blame him for wanting to get paid what he is worth to this team, especially when the income falls off pretty rapidly afterwards.

Teh fark? 2 million is not much? How much do YOU get paid a year?

Joe Kool
01-27-2011, 09:35 AM
I think it is the nature of the beast in pro sports to not have income after you retire and that's why many get into coaching, television, reporting, endorsements among other things and I hate when I hear any players whining about not having income when they retire. There is no retirement plan that means all of their salaries go up in the last few years to give them a good send off. If they don't realize that when they get into this type of venture then they are totally ignorant or stupid. DeRo says he will do what is best for him and his family so that should have been investing his money properly all of these years knowing that he is playing in the MLS and the chance of a DP contract is a shot in the dark. I know I could do some good investing with 6x my current salary.

Mark in Ottawa
01-27-2011, 09:44 AM
I wonder why pro athletes always use the argument that they have to earn a bundle during their playing years because their careers are short. They should have a good look at the rest of society.
Because they live in a bubble working hard to become pro atheletes. Often education suffers.

Then they live in a bubble as pro atheletes with others taking care of many of their wants and needs. Hangers on and unscrupulous types offer to boost their egos and help them spend their earnings.

Then... the bubble bursts... and they are forced out of the ranks of the pro athelete. And they become... just another joe. The hangers on move onto the next "sugar daddy" and they are left with having to deal with real life for which many are not prepared.

That being said there is that other group that are pretty level headed. They know it won't last forever and plan ahead. They make contacts that they hope will evolve into a new career after retirement. They ensure that they are set up to get enough education somewhere along the way to be able to earn a decent living in their next career.

The problem of course is what exactly is a decent living??
Expectations can be a very big problem as we all know and have witnessed over the years.

Auzzy
01-27-2011, 10:09 AM
Hasn't Dero has talked about mentoring younger guys, thinking about the future, taking care of financial matters, etc? Or am I confusing him with someone else? Somehow, I think he's got his situation figured out not too badly.

snoopdog
01-27-2011, 10:25 AM
But Winter & his family are actually from Suriname, also involved with the Netherlands during the colonial period, although a bit more complicated...

So we may have a Dutch connection?

Waggy
01-27-2011, 10:30 AM
For shame, all of you. Today there's a sunshine girl with a normal to attractive face and real tits and NOTHING from any of you. If she looked like she ran into a barn door face first a few times but got a boob job- you'd be drooling. Fine, I'll do it.
:yum::hump:

I like seeing somewhat normal, non broken in-whorish types as the SSG. The types you can actually meet in bars that don't ask for money to dance with you. Call me crazy.

Oh ya, lots of TFC news. Dero something.

tfcleeds
01-27-2011, 10:38 AM
+1 on the SSG.

Luanda
01-27-2011, 10:58 AM
Enough on DeRo!
His sideshow has distractingly become the main show.
Salary negociations are taken care of behind the scenes, not up in public.
Now do we not have a TFC in reconstruction, under new management, about to leave for Turkey, starting pre-season, and bringing in a number of trialists?

Ossington Mental Youth
01-27-2011, 10:59 AM
i never bother to check, the majority of em are rough

maninb
01-27-2011, 11:01 AM
Has he burnt so many bridges, that he wont be able to WORK at anything when he retires from playing? What's he planning on doing for the next 30 years? Come to think of it, maybe he has!

I wonder why pro athletes always use the argument that they have to earn a bundle during their playing years because their careers are short. They should have a good look at the rest of society.


WELL SAID!!!! Dero should just STFU and get on with playing...He's such a hothead and so disloyal that I doubt many companies would want somebody like him as an employee...

rocker
01-27-2011, 11:08 AM
I'm not worried about De Ro's financial future... Dan Gargan, on the other hand...... ;)

dow117
01-27-2011, 11:11 AM
A contract is a contract , If Dero is looking for a job after retirement , try school bus driving just like many of us who lost well paying jobs / benefits lately. He could work with the League to improve his lot before the season opener instead if a confrontation on $$$. He's taken the lustre off this early euphoria. $500K + commercial endorsements is not bad for doing something you love. Don't give me this BS about security for his family ..... he can sign for 4 more years at the same money ; that is security

Waggy
01-27-2011, 11:15 AM
A contract is a contract , If Dero is looking for a job after retirement , try school bus driving just like many of us who lost well paying jobs / benefits lately. He could work with the League to improve his lot before the season opener instead if a confrontation on $$$. He's taken the lustre off this early euphoria. $500K + commercial endorsements is not bad for doing something you love. Don't give me this BS about security for his family ..... he can sign for 4 more years at the same money ; that is security

Security would have been being hired by TFC as an ambassador for the club/scout after his playing days were done, a-la Dichio and Brennan. Clearly that doesn't interest him though, judging from his use of napalm as his main negotiating technique

Gazza
01-27-2011, 11:17 AM
oh honestly, really? His not taking an "income hit" in retirement should have been well planned out before now lol what a joke.

I do believe a contract extension would be his way of planning for retirement. This is what responsible athletes do when they're in the back end of their careers. Especially when they have a family. You're not just negotiating for yourself and your brand, you're championing for your wife and kids and their future.

People seem to want to paint a $400k athlete with the same brush as a multi millionaire athlete. One built a very good life for himself, the other is set for life. I don't blame Dwayne for trying to get the big payday and security he deserves.

MG42
01-27-2011, 11:25 AM
I do believe a contract extension would be his way of planning for retirement. This is what responsible athletes do when they're in the back end of their careers. Especially when they have a family. You're not just negotiating for yourself and your brand, you're championing for your wife and kids and their future.

People seem to want to paint a $400k athlete with the same brush as a multi millionaire athlete. One built a very good life for himself, the other is set for life. I don't blame Dwayne for trying to get the big payday and security he deserves.

Sorry I don't buy it...do you wait till you're 50 to plan your retirement? next...

Wagner
01-27-2011, 11:29 AM
For shame, all of you. Today there's a sunshine girl with a normal to attractive face and real tits and NOTHING from any of you. If she looked like she ran into a barn door face first a few times but got a boob job- you'd be drooling. Fine, I'll do it.
:yum::hump:

I like seeing somewhat normal, non broken in-whorish types as the SSG. The types you can actually meet in bars that don't ask for money to dance with you. Call me crazy.

Oh ya, lots of TFC news. Dero something.

different strokes for different folks...

she doesn't do it for me.

but there's someone for everyone.

yesterday was more my "cup of tea".

rocker
01-27-2011, 11:33 AM
I do believe a contract extension would be his way of planning for retirement. This is what responsible athletes do when they're in the back end of their careers. Especially when they have a family. You're not just negotiating for yourself and your brand, you're championing for your wife and kids and their future.

People seem to want to paint a $400k athlete with the same brush as a multi millionaire athlete. One built a very good life for himself, the other is set for life. I don't blame Dwayne for trying to get the big payday and security he deserves.

If he really wanted to secure his family's future he should have gone to Europe. The pay is way better there. I remember even the average pay in the third level in England was better than what he was making in 2007.
If he played in the Championship he'd probably make more money than he is with TFC.

But he keeps signing these contracts with MLS... hmm....

Derko
01-27-2011, 11:33 AM
Well I'm optimistic, as far as players coming and going, that's part of football.
It is too bad that the main focus is the DeRo debacle, pretty boring re-hashing of the same stuff.

See you at the opener, I ask everyone to look up the song 'Fields of Glory' by the High Kings, it is pretty inspiring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE9OaujxHPg

sully
01-27-2011, 11:34 AM
2 million in 4-5 years is not much over a lifetime. Even over five years that's only 400,000 a year.

And that will fall significantly as he ages.

I can't and won't blame him for wanting to get paid what he is worth to this team, especially when the income falls off pretty rapidly afterwards.

The question of DeRo's future is a question for DeRo only. He's a pro player and he made that choice to have a short sports career before he does something else. The question is what's he is worth on the open market in football. Time and again, his time in Germany, throughout MLS, Scotland has provided evidence of his worth. It's just like a house, it's only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. He is a great player for this level but he's not irreplaceable. He should move on to another team to get more money - except another team wouldn't pay him more.. Bit tired of this now.. I'd rather committed team mates than this....

Waggy
01-27-2011, 11:35 AM
^^^ Sorry Wagner, was going for funny not offensive. Was referring to one last week who looked like a porn star with a butterface that people went nuts over. It was like a 3 page appreciation thread.

Oldtimer
01-27-2011, 11:35 AM
You do know that 2 million is more money than most Canadians make in their lifetime don't you?

If he hasn't invested a large portion of that money than he is a fool.

If he can't get by for the rest of his life with what he has been paid to kick a ball around, then he can get a real job like the rest of us.

If you put $2,000,000 aside for 30 years. Earn 5% annually. You can then have an income of $10k/month for the next 50 following years. Obviously taxes will reduce everything, but you can have a very comfortable retirement, if you can get by on some income for the 30 years.

Pookie
01-27-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm not worried about De Ro's financial future... Dan Gargan, on the other hand...... ;)

Finally, someone mentions the Gargan. Here's a player who knows he has to play for his contract and interestingly, shuts up and does it.

Gazza
01-27-2011, 11:38 AM
Sorry I don't buy it...do you wait till you're 50 to plan your retirement? next...

If i work contract to contract i've been planning my big pay day for years. You don't think this has been on his mind (or his agent's) since he became a pro?

If you're aged 30 or more, why would you go into your last year or so of a contract without trying to get a big payday and term? Because jaded fans might sour on you? I can't imagine any athlete would think that way.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-27-2011, 11:42 AM
if i was going into my last pay day right now id be fucked and id have known that 2 years ago too and would have done something about it then

Gazza
01-27-2011, 11:44 AM
Finally, someone mentions the Gargan. Here's a player who knows he has to play for his contract and interestingly, shuts up and does it.

The Gargan has no leverage. He shuts up and goes about his business because there will always be someone younger and cheaper that can do his job if he decides to speak up about how little he's being paid.

We glorify the Gargan's because of their work rate and cheap price tag, but really, if he was as talented and had the credentials that De Ro has, you'd have the same issue with him because he'd be going after the big contract as well. He might not be air-signing cheques, but his intentions would be the same.

MG42
01-27-2011, 11:47 AM
If i work contract to contract i've been planning my big pay day for years. You don't think this has been on his mind (or his agent's) since he became a pro?

If you're aged 30 or more, why would you go into your last year or so of a contract without trying to get a big payday and term? Because jaded fans might sour on you? I can't imagine any athlete would think that way.

You plan for retirement from day 1.

Pookie
01-27-2011, 11:51 AM
The Gargan has no leverage. He shuts up and goes about his business because there will always be someone younger and cheaper that can do his job if he decides to speak up about how little he's being paid.

We glorify the Gargan's because of their work rate and cheap price tag, but really, if he was as talented and had the credentials that De Ro has, you'd have the same issue with him because he'd be going after the big contract as well. He might not be air-signing cheques, but his intentions would be the same.

And if DeRo had half of Gargan's character to go along with his MLS talent, he might have actually got his DP dream.

MartinUtd
01-27-2011, 11:53 AM
Are we really agonizing over a pro-athlete's financial woes? Get real, people.

T0R0NT0 FC
01-27-2011, 11:54 AM
DeRo can go.

Gazza
01-27-2011, 11:59 AM
And if DeRo had half of Gargan's character to go along with his MLS talent, he might have actually got his DP dream.

Sorry, i didn't realize that teams base their DP signings on character. The track record of the other DP signings in the league proves your point exponentially.

rocker
01-27-2011, 11:59 AM
The Gargan has no leverage. He shuts up and goes about his business because there will always be someone younger and cheaper that can do his job if he decides to speak up about how little he's being paid.

We glorify the Gargan's because of their work rate and cheap price tag, but really, if he was as talented and had the credentials that De Ro has, you'd have the same issue with him because he'd be going after the big contract as well. He might not be air-signing cheques, but his intentions would be the same.

And if De Ro was as talented and had the credentials of better players in Europe, he wouldn't need to squeeze every last drop out of a contract in a league that didn't even exist when he started playing. Indeed, if he had gone to Europe years ago he wouldn't have had to sign air cheques.

MLS made De Ro the big fish in the little pond, protected him against a free market where MLS teams probably would have signed Euros or cheaper South Americans. If MLS had been the Wild West like the NASL, I don't think De Ro would have eventually had the opportunity to earn 450K a year.

DangerRed
01-27-2011, 12:35 PM
Ultimately, how much you care about D-Money's retirement should be proportional to how much he cares about yours. Unless you're Roogsy.

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 12:42 PM
And if DeRo had half of Gargan's character to go along with his MLS talent, he might have actually got his DP dream.

Doubtful. More likely he'd be fuming behind closed doors.

At the end of the day, Gargan is an untalented player who fills utility needs and shouldn't be a starter. I'd argue that he chose the wrong career path, but he probably won't peak at age 35 in pay. Why? Because there are so many 40,000 dollar a year jobs out there.

There's only a handful of 400-500k ones.

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 12:43 PM
The guy is lining up DeroEnt and is generally a very ambitious guy. I'm sure he will do well as long as he wants to work. I don't know if he will be making more or less than his current $450k, but I bet he will be earning more than 90% of TFC for many years to come. Nothing to get worried about, nobody is gonna starve.


EDIT: meant to say, more than 90% of TFC supporters

Do you even know the success rate of small businesses? It's quite low. DeroEnt is small business. It's not a retirement plan, it's a sustenance plan with a high right of failure.

DangerRed
01-27-2011, 01:01 PM
Do you even know the success rate of small businesses? It's quite low. DeroEnt is small business. It's not a retirement plan, it's a sustenance plan with a high right of failure.

Have you started that pension fund for him yet, then? I'll reiterate what someone else said earlier: boo fucking hoo. I fail to see how he should be paid more because he's going to retire soon. In fact, it's preposterous.

Imagine you told your employer, "I'm a high performer, but I'm going to stop being one in 10 years, which means I only have a decade left to earn for my retirement. Can you guys jack up my salary to say, $1.5 million a year so that I don't have to work anymore?" They'd laugh in your face. And they'd laugh even harder if you tried to skip shop to another company when they had a fully negotiated contract that you signed in their hands.

Why? Because if you're a footballer whose career is over at 35, it just might be that you need to find another fucking job. Just like anyone else.

Auzzy
01-27-2011, 01:03 PM
Do you even know the success rate of small businesses? It's quite low. DeroEnt is small business. It's not a retirement plan, it's a sustenance plan with a high right of failure.

The guy is going to do fine. He's got lots of options. As long as he doesn't decide to continue to handle things as badly as he has lately (and maybe even has been for a while, thinking of the last contract signings, history of complaints, career choices i.e. MLS/Europe...) Anyway, if he's smart about things, he will do fine. Like most of us. I'm not jealous, AND I'm not worried for him either.

Pookie
01-27-2011, 01:18 PM
Sorry, i didn't realize that teams base their DP signings on character. The track record of the other DP signings in the league proves your point exponentially.

You don't think a positive reputation would improve his stock?

Other DPs have talent, he doesn't come anywhere near that. If you add a craptacular attitude to go along with sub-par DP skill... well, it's no wonder that his phone isn't ringing like he thinks it should be.

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 01:32 PM
Have you started that pension fund for him yet, then? I'll reiterate what someone else said earlier: boo fucking hoo. I fail to see how he should be paid more because he's going to retire soon. In fact, it's preposterous.

Imagine you told your employer, "I'm a high performer, but I'm going to stop being one in 10 years, which means I only have a decade left to earn for my retirement. Can you guys jack up my salary to say, $1.5 million a year so that I don't have to work anymore?" They'd laugh in your face. And they'd laugh even harder if you tried to skip shop to another company when they had a fully negotiated contract that you signed in their hands.

Why? Because if you're a footballer whose career is over at 35, it just might be that you need to find another fucking job. Just like anyone else.

Actually, that's precisely what happens, especially due to the shortness of supply of players of De Ro's quality. But yeah, you seem to be the expert in Labour Economics, so I'll let you continue to ramble away, ignorant of basic laws of supply and demand.

Pookie
01-27-2011, 01:45 PM
^ but in 2008, DeRo and his agent, sought to maximize the returns vs the future risk.

They insisted on a new contract.

They were offered a 2yr + 1 + 1 deal in which the player's overall salary was increased substaintially. The option years provided for some security at this new salary level but the 2 guaranteed years also provided income that he could bank.

They could have not pressed the issue and played out their current contract, gambling on the fact that in 2011, he would be a player with no home. He could face retirement, a reduced wage or conversely, a bidding war that he could cash in on.

Both the player and the agent weighed the pros and cons and opted for the more conservative route.

Now that the 2 years have passed, they are trying to cash in on second option. Except of course, this option isn't available now. He's already banked the money from the conservative option.

This is like a poker game in which you call your opponent on the river. You both turn over your cards and you win. You can't then go back and raise them.

Stencils
01-27-2011, 01:53 PM
Actually, that's precisely what happens, especially due to the shortness of supply of players of De Ro's quality. But yeah, you seem to be the expert in Labour Economics, so I'll let you continue to ramble away, ignorant of basic laws of supply and demand.

Wow, seriously? Can you call my boss, because I think I'm pretty good at what I do and I hate work.

TorCanSoc
01-27-2011, 01:54 PM
Sometimes we forget what real breasts look like. Thanks mediocre SSG.

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 01:56 PM
Wow, seriously? Can you call my boss, because I think I'm pretty good at what I do and I hate work.

Do you work for a limited period of time in a position with extremely limited and expensive labour replacements?

No?

Then no. I can't do anything for you.

Everyone is replaceable, but not everyone is replaceable at a reasonable cost. Footballers, especially the talented ones, are not very replaceable at a reasonable price.

Pookie
01-27-2011, 02:02 PM
^ what about the old ones?

DangerRed
01-27-2011, 02:07 PM
Actually, that's precisely what happens, especially due to the shortness of supply of players of De Ro's quality. But yeah, you seem to be the expert in Labour Economics, so I'll let you continue to ramble away, ignorant of basic laws of supply and demand.

You're totally right. DeRo is rare. Precisely $500,000 worth of rare, which is what the market has determined to be his worth, factoring in the supply of players of similar quality and the demand for their services, as well as the depreciating value of the asset they represent, since their worth decreases as they age. You can uppercase labour economics all you want, but I think it might be you who's confused about supply and demand.

You're trying to say someone that will get worse as time goes on should be paid more for the same amount of labour. You sound like you went to University of Pyongyang for business school.

Stryker
01-27-2011, 02:43 PM
Actually, that's precisely what happens, especially due to the shortness of supply of players of De Ro's quality. But yeah, you seem to be the expert in Labour Economics, so I'll let you continue to ramble away, ignorant of basic laws of supply and demand.
Wait... supply and demand? Now I know why everything you say is so asinine, you're Paul Beirne aren't you.

Whoop
01-27-2011, 02:47 PM
Sometimes we forget what real breasts look like. Thanks mediocre SSG.

The only positive of today's SSG. The rest of it can go.

And mediocre SSG... LOL Reminds me of the parody SNL did of Lady Gaga's Poker Face... Mediocre Face. LOL

Stouffville_RPB
01-27-2011, 02:50 PM
I like the SSG but don't think smiley worthy. Yesterday's was a peach.

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 02:58 PM
You're totally right. DeRo is rare. Precisely $500,000 worth of rare, which is what the market has determined to be his worth, factoring in the supply of players of similar quality and the demand for their services, as well as the depreciating value of the asset they represent, since their worth decreases as they age. You can uppercase labour economics all you want, but I think it might be you who's confused about supply and demand.

You're trying to say someone that will get worse as time goes on should be paid more for the same amount of labour. You sound like you went to University of Pyongyang for business school.

Where's the beef? You can't actually back that up because you have no statistics on De Rosario's future...unless of course you and ole Mackenzie King have been communicating.

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 02:59 PM
Wait... supply and demand? Now I know why everything you say is so asinine, you're Paul Beirne aren't you.

Before you throw around terms, you should at least study some entry level economics, if you really think what I say is asinine.

This is just standard economic theory, although I guess they say people have lost economic and financial literacy...

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 03:00 PM
^ what about the old ones?

I'm sure Pele is quite replaceable at this point.

jloome
01-27-2011, 03:09 PM
Do you work for a limited period of time in a position with extremely limited and expensive labour replacements?

No?

Then no. I can't do anything for you.

Everyone is replaceable, but not everyone is replaceable at a reasonable cost. Footballers, especially the talented ones, are not very replaceable at a reasonable price.

You're seriously over-estimating his talent.

Whoop
01-27-2011, 03:11 PM
Sometimes we forget what real breasts look like. Thanks mediocre SSG.

PK1jYHcXqtg

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 03:12 PM
You're seriously over-estimating his talent.

Am I though?

If he was so replaceable, why hasn't TFC dropped him.

I've gotten frustrated with the lack of willingness to debate this seriously. The answer always is: "I don't like him, he's a dick."

Taking that aside, he provides serious value to the team. TFC hasn't dropped him because he produces goals, which make the games more exciting and give TFC a chance to win. If TFC gets rid of him there's no way you could have 100% certainty you'd replace him with a player of similar talents.

So, despite the contract dispute, they keep him, because he puts butts in the seat, sells merch and helps inflate atrocious TV ratings. IE: He generates value for MLSE.

Whether you like the guy or not, that's what he does for the club. And there is huge risk in getting rid of De Ro. If he was so replaceable, this club would have replaced him and not picked up his option.

MG42
01-27-2011, 03:14 PM
Actually, that's precisely what happens, especially due to the shortness of supply of players of De Ro's quality. But yeah, you seem to be the expert in Labour Economics, so I'll let you continue to ramble away, ignorant of basic laws of supply and demand.

get real man

Whoop
01-27-2011, 03:16 PM
Am I though?

If he was so replaceable, why hasn't TFC dropped him.

I've gotten frustrated with the lack of willingness to debate this seriously. The answer always is: "I don't like him, he's a dick."

Taking that aside, he provides serious value to the team. TFC hasn't dropped him because he produces goals, which make the games more exciting and give TFC a chance to win. If TFC gets rid of him there's no way you could have 100% certainty you'd replace him with a player of similar talents.

So, despite the contract dispute, they keep him, because he puts butts in the seat, sells merch and helps inflate atrocious TV ratings. IE: He generates value for MLSE.

Whether you like the guy or not, that's what he does for the club. And there is huge risk in getting rid of De Ro. If he was so replaceable, this club would have replaced him and not picked up his option.

Because maybe the new administration knows not to drop him before having a replacement signed, sealed and delivered.

Not like Mo, where you drop a player and then scramble to find a replacement.

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 03:19 PM
Because maybe the new administration knows not to drop him before having a replacement signed, sealed and delivered.

Not like Mo, where you drop a player and then scramble to find a replacement.

The way everyone talks around here, finding a replacement is as easy as snapping your fingers. I'll point to the above message from MG.

It's not. Which means he's valuable.

The fact that the new administration would hold onto him, for the reason you have given, indicates then that indeed he's tough to replace and there's inherent risk in dumping him.

Acknowledging that, would it not be better to reward him with a larger contract, keep him happy and remove any risk of having to replace De Ro in the short run, and begin a new long run search (2 years anyone) for a player of his calibre.

DangerRed
01-27-2011, 03:19 PM
Where's the beef? You can't actually back that up because you have no statistics on De Rosario's future...unless of course you and ole Mackenzie King have been communicating.

I'll ask you what I asked Roogsy: do you mean to tell me with a straight face that performance of footballers or any other sports athletes does not decline with age?

May I point you to an informative text on the subject? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ageing

You don't need psychic powers to know that DeRo's worth is going down, not up. The PR mess isn't helping and I'd in fact argue it's tarnishing his value in the resale/trade market because no one likes the dramatics. Taken on aggregate with the fact that his dissatisfaction with his contract could lead to underperformance, I'd be a willing seller if I was the FO.

But, you know, DeRo is so RARE. Right?

Whoop
01-27-2011, 03:19 PM
So, despite the contract dispute, they keep him, because he puts butts in the seat, sells merch and helps inflate atrocious TV ratings. IE: He generates value for MLSE.


Really?

Because since he's been on the team, I've seen a lot more empty seats.

DeRo doesn't put butts in the seats and people will buy TFC merch regardless of DeRo. And it's not like TV ratings have really increased because of DeRo.

Yeah, he might be TFC's best player but for fuck sakes he's not the greatest footballer to ever walk the earth.

At the end of the day winning generates value for MLSE, not DeRo.

Now if you want to discuss the merits of whether keeping or getting rid of him helps TFC win or lose, then you have a discussion.

menefreghista
01-27-2011, 03:21 PM
Am I though?

If he was so replaceable, why hasn't TFC dropped him.

I've gotten frustrated with the lack of willingness to debate this seriously. The answer always is: "I don't like him, he's a dick."

Taking that aside, he provides serious value to the team. TFC hasn't dropped him because he produces goals, which make the games more exciting and give TFC a chance to win. If TFC gets rid of him there's no way you could have 100% certainty you'd replace him with a player of similar talents.

So, despite the contract dispute, they keep him, because he puts butts in the seat, sells merch and helps inflate atrocious TV ratings. IE: He generates value for MLSE.

Whether you like the guy or not, that's what he does for the club. And there is huge risk in getting rid of De Ro. If he was so replaceable, this club would have replaced him and not picked up his option.

You are right on with this post.

If the club didn't want him they would just not pick up his option. Or pull another Barrett type trade.

I've said this previously, but De Rosario is as close as you can get to consistent guaranteed performance in this league.

When you consider the track record of many of the DP signings in this league he actually performs better than them. Which I think does warrant him DP status.

Whoop
01-27-2011, 03:22 PM
The way everyone talks around here, finding a replacement is as easy as snapping your fingers. I'll point to the above message from MG.

It's not. Which means he's valuable.

The fact that the new administration would hold onto him, for the reason you have given, indicates then that indeed he's tough to replace and there's inherent risk in dumping him.

Acknowledging that, would it not be better to reward him with a larger contract, keep him happy and remove any risk of having to replace De Ro in the short run, and begin a new long run search (2 years anyone) for a player of his calibre.

We don't know if he's easily replaceable or not.

Maybe Winter and Mariner already have their eye on replacement and he's waiting to join the team in Turkey.

And holding onto him is just smart management, not necessarily because they can't find a replacement. See Johnston, Mo.

I'm sure Winter and Mariner have more contacts than Mo ever did.

C.Ronaldo
01-27-2011, 03:23 PM
how quickly people forget who scored all the goals last year, who got us into the canada cup, who stuck as at least competitive in the all star game.

Show the man the money. He deserves it, hes one of the best in the league

Auzzy
01-27-2011, 03:34 PM
how quickly people forget who scored all the goals last year, who got us into the canada cup, who stuck as at least competitive in the all star game.

Show the man the money. He deserves it, hes one of the best in the league

TFCRegina & C.Ronaldo please explain to us, after what the league vice-president said yesterday, why are we still arguing about this? I don't think the league will re-open Dero's contract & pay him what Dero thinks he deserves. Especially after all this publicity, he may at most be offered some minor improvements that are not seen as a very costly precedent to the league, such as guaranteeing the last two years of his contract now. But even that seems to be a stretch at this point.

C.Ronaldo
01-27-2011, 03:53 PM
he's the league VP

they changed the rule (guideline) for Donovan, they can do it now.

Nothings impossible, hell we got MLSE to give us a free game.

Alixir
01-27-2011, 03:55 PM
he's the league VP

they changed the rule (guideline) for Donovan, they can do it now.

Nothings impossible, hell we got MLSE to give us a free game.
.....:picard:

Yohan
01-27-2011, 03:56 PM
he's the league VP

they changed the rule (guideline) for Donovan, they can do it now.

because changing the rules for Donovan benefited the league as whole (at least the thinking is)

changing the rule for DeRo on this point only benefits DeRo, not the league

McBrace
01-27-2011, 03:58 PM
he's the league VP

they changed the rule (guideline) for Donovan, they can do it now.

Nothings impossible, hell we got MLSE to give us a free game.

If the league gives into players holding teams ransom, thats a very scary precedent to set.

ManUtd4ever
01-27-2011, 04:00 PM
he's the league VP

they changed the rule (guideline) for Donovan, they can do it now.

Nothings impossible, hell we got MLSE to give us a free game.

You're forgetting that MLS already made an exception once when DeRo was traded to TFC in that his contract was renegotiated mid term at the time. It's not going to happen again...

Walms
01-27-2011, 04:15 PM
2 million in 4-5 years is not much over a lifetime. Even over five years that's only 400,000 a year.

And that will fall significantly as he ages.

I can't and won't blame him for wanting to get paid what he is worth to this team, especially when the income falls off pretty rapidly afterwards.

could not agree more!!!!

Gazza_55
01-27-2011, 05:11 PM
he's the league VP

they changed the rule (guideline) for Donovan, they can do it now.

Nothings impossible, hell we got MLSE to give us a free game.


You are really not comparing DeRo to Landon Donovan are you?

DeRo is valued by TFC and MLS to the tune of $440,000 and that's what he is paid. If he was worth what you and TFCRegina think he's worth some top European club would have bought out his contract in the last 10 years and he would be playing overseas.

jloome
01-27-2011, 05:34 PM
Am I though?

If he was so replaceable, why hasn't TFC dropped him.

I've gotten frustrated with the lack of willingness to debate this seriously. The answer always is: "I don't like him, he's a dick."

Taking that aside .....

Good. Take it aside, because it didn't exist. I didn't say he was a dick, I said you were overestimating his talent.

Given that they won't renegotiate his contract, their keeping him at his current wage supports my argument.

Jesus, and you're trying to argue economics with people. Try a course in logic first, son.

Chevy
01-27-2011, 05:38 PM
You are really not comparing DeRo to Landon Donovan are you?

DeRo is valued by TFC and MLS to the tune of $440,000 and that's what he is paid. If he was worth what you and TFCRegina think he's worth some top European club would have bought out his contract in the last 10 years and he would be playing overseas.

Further to this, there has been ZERO evidence that any euro club, at any time over the last decade has been interested in his services at an increased wage.

ZERO.

Does anyone here realistically think that if such an offer or interest existed he wouldn't have been screaming it from the rooftops?

TFCRegina
01-27-2011, 05:41 PM
Good. Take it aside, because it didn't exist. I didn't say he was a dick, I said you were overestimating his talent.

Given that they won't renegotiate his contract, their keeping him at his current wage supports my argument.

Jesus, and you're trying to argue economics with people. Try a course in logic first, son.

But you're saying I'm overstating his value. I'm not. His value to the club is higher than what he's paid.

So yes, the club may not be willing to re-negotiate the contract, but that's because in the assbackwards world of sports, labour has less mobility and rights than in any other vocation.

His value is his Marginal Revenue Product. Clubs try to make profits (in all sports) by attempting to take a portion of the MRP.

Canada72
01-27-2011, 05:48 PM
Not sure if this needs its own thread

A New Dawn, A New Day


Looking at the expectations in Toronto, a Crew member's comeback and new hope in DC

With special guests:
Paul Mariner, Toronto FC director of player personnel
Dax McCarty, USMNT and D.C. United midfielder


http://www.mlssoccer.com/extratime

Chevy
01-27-2011, 06:07 PM
But you're saying I'm overstating his value. I'm not. His value to the club is higher than what he's paid.

So yes, the club may not be willing to re-negotiate the contract, but that's because in the assbackwards world of sports, labour has less mobility and rights than in any other vocation.

His value is his Marginal Revenue Product. Clubs try to make profits (in all sports) by attempting to take a portion of the MRP.

You really have no clue. I don't know where you pulled this one from, but the standard definition of MRP is the additional revenue a firm (TFC) stands to gain by employing an additional unit of labour (DERO).

So working backwards here, if our beloved unit of labour (DeRo) holds out or f**ks off somewhere how much revenue would the club lose? Little. Attendance was strong before he arrived, as were jersey/product sales. It will continue to be strong after he leaves, whether it's now or in two years. Apply your theory to Beckham and maybe you have something. DeRo? Nada. Would winning increase revenue? Sure, but there is no evidence that DeRo helps us win - we missed the playoffs both years he was here, and the resultant revenue the extra games would have brought. Sorry again.

Hell, I will go as far as saying that DeRo's MRP is negative - meaning that leaving his roster spot empty the productivity of the other labour units (the other players, remember them?) would INCREASE.

That being said, you probably have better understanding of economics than DeRo or his agent. I pray that I don't hear him bring up MRP in his next ill-advised outburst.

:facepalm:

C.Ronaldo
01-27-2011, 06:09 PM
come on people. STATS!

Goal Scoring Statistics for players and teams in the 2010 Major League Soccer season (as of Oct 7, 2010)

How can you argue that he shouldn't be paid the 2nd/3rd highest in the league.

Goal Leaders
15 - Edson Buddle (LA)
13 - Juan Pablo Angel (NY)
13 - Dwayne De Rosario (TOR)

Game Winning Goals
7 - Chris Wondolowski (SJ)
6 - Edson Buddle (LA)
5 - Alvaro Saborio (RSL)
4 - Guillermo Barros Schelotto (CLB)
4 - Dwayne De Rosario (TOR)


Team Goals Scored
41 - Real Salt Lake
40 - Los Angeles Galaxy
39 - FC Dallas
37 - Colorado Rapids
36 - Houston Dynamo
35 - Columbus Crew
35 - New York Red Bulls
34 - Seattle Sounders FC
32 - Philadelphia Union
31 - Chicago Fire
29 - Kansas City Wizards
29 - New England Revolution
28 - San Jose Earthquakes
28 - Toronto FC

Please tell me who had the poorest team. Do you forget how BAD TFC was last year?

Yohan
01-27-2011, 06:17 PM
do you really want to go to the salary stats route? because that's already been done in the DeRo thread, and the stats show that you can get cheaper 15 goals per year scorer than DeRo

sidvan
01-27-2011, 06:21 PM
:deadhorse:

Chevy
01-27-2011, 06:22 PM
And if you do, fire up the assists list. He had three.

scooterTFC
01-27-2011, 10:10 PM
You really have no clue. I don't know where you pulled this one from, but the standard definition of MRP is the additional revenue a firm (TFC) stands to gain by employing an additional unit of labour (DERO).

So working backwards here, if our beloved unit of labour (DeRo) holds out or f**ks off somewhere how much revenue would the club lose? Little. Attendance was strong before he arrived, as were jersey/product sales. It will continue to be strong after he leaves, whether it's now or in two years. Apply your theory to Beckham and maybe you have something. DeRo? Nada. Would winning increase revenue? Sure, but there is no evidence that DeRo helps us win - we missed the playoffs both years he was here, and the resultant revenue the extra games would have brought. Sorry again.

Hell, I will go as far as saying that DeRo's MRP is negative - meaning that leaving his roster spot empty the productivity of the other labour units (the other players, remember them?) would INCREASE.

That being said, you probably have better understanding of economics than DeRo or his agent. I pray that I don't hear him bring up MRP in his next ill-advised outburst.

:facepalm:

The star player and the club are having a contract disagreement. My observations is that this debate by supporters seems to be more polarizing to supporters then the actual words and actions of the protaganists.

Its fun to discuss and debate but do any of us really have enough inside information to make conclusive judgements as to which party is right/wrong? The truth is that both parties are probably in 'the wrong' on some issues and both are in 'the right' on some issues.

Dero's public handling of a private contract matter is messy and at times some what distasteful. TFC has employed some strange PR posturing around the contract and the Celtic trial which really has alienated a star player and their overall poor managment of the situation is also frustrating to watch (well run teams don't let messy contract disputes fester and linger like this). I think both parties are in the wrong, and trying to apportion the blame is probably futile

Dero's on field performance will be hard to replace, and I can't agree with anyone who denies this. For our sake, I hope they get this resolved and put in the past, because if the don't the fans will be the losers and both parties will have 'wronged' us.

Roogsy
01-28-2011, 02:07 AM
do you really want to go to the salary stats route? because that's already been done in the DeRo thread, and the stats show that you can get cheaper 15 goals per year scorer than DeRo


That price per goals discussion was such a crock considering what Montero is now getting paid, he would have to score SIXTY goals to make his PPG come even close to the average of the other players quoted in that example. Are you saying Montero should not have been given a larger contract? This stat only supports a position that no player, not a single one, in MLS should be paid more than $400k regardless of who you are, even if you are Beckham. In other words, it`s a completely useless measurement.

J .
01-28-2011, 02:43 AM
That price per goals discussion was such a crock considering what Montero is now getting paid, he would have to score SIXTY goals to make his PPG come even close to the average of the other players quoted in that example. Are you saying Montero should not have been given a larger contract? This stat only supports a position that no player, not a single one, in MLS should be paid more than $400k regardless of who you are, even if you are Beckham. In other words, it`s a completely useless measurement.


I completely agree, perhaps MLS should adopt that rule. 400k is more than a reasonable amount. Maybe they could keep ticket prices affordable.

Roogsy
01-28-2011, 03:03 AM
I completely agree, perhaps MLS should adopt that rule. 400k is more than a reasonable amount. Maybe they could keep ticket prices affordable.


Well if that's the goal, why not 250k? Heck...100k is a nice robust salary...nobody in MLS should get paid more than 100k. Then ticket prices will never go up right?


Right?

At 100k, DeRo would be getting paid just under 7 grand per goal. That's generous no? And guys like Gargan and Labrocca, they scored 1 goal each so each gets 7 grand as well.

And us fans will finally get the promised $5 beers and maybe even free parking!

Yohan
01-28-2011, 03:06 AM
That price per goals discussion was such a crock considering what Montero is now getting paid, he would have to score SIXTY goals to make his PPG come even close to the average of the other players quoted in that example. Are you saying Montero should not have been given a larger contract? This stat only supports a position that no player, not a single one, in MLS should be paid more than $400k regardless of who you are, even if you are Beckham. In other words, it`s a completely useless measurement.
I agree.

A player should get paid what his value to the team is, at the time of contract negotiation.

Roogsy
01-28-2011, 03:09 AM
I do not disagree.