TFC to expand academy program

[Yohan]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/academy-get-younger


Academy To Get Younger Toronto FC eyes U-14 and U-13 options by 2012.

Duane Rollins
MLSsoccer.com
January 24, 2011

TORONTO — This will be an exciting year of growth for youth development programs at Toronto FC, according to the club's academy director Stuart Neely.

With TFC ownership approving a $17.6 million investment in a new training facility, planning is underway for the creation of a third academy team. Neely said he expects a program made up of U-14 and U-13 players to be up and running by spring 2012.

He says that’s just the beginning.

“It’s exciting,” Neely said. “We are looking to create U-15, U-13, U-11 all the way down to U-7 [teams]. That’s been the plan from Day 1.”

With a new management team boasting experience in the world renowned Ajax youth system, it’s a reasonable assumption that the Reds will be relying on homegrown talent a great deal moving forward, Neely said. Last year, the club signed academy standouts Doneil Henry (pictured above) and Nicholas Lindsay (pictured below) to professional contracts.

“We’ve talked to the first-team staff and they all see the NCAA draft as useful, but they really think there needs to be more emphasis on the academy for developing players for the first team,” he said.

Both head coach and technical director Aron Winter and first assistant Bob de Klerk will work directly with the youngsters in the academy, Neely added.

After an initial evaluation of the entire group, the plan is to have a select few academy players training with the first team throughout the year. According to Neely, TFC fans can expect the Reds to take full advantage of the MLS rule that will allow up to three academy players to take part in each reserve game.

Neely also pledged full cooperation with the Canadian Soccer Association in releasing players for U-17 and U-20 events, adding that it’s important that TFC, along with the other MLS academy programs in Canada, remember they have a responsibility to improve the state of the Canadian game.

“We’re really stressing loyalty to the club,” Neely said, “but also to Canada. We will cooperate fully with the national teams.”

A location for the new training facility is expected to be announced by April and be ready for use by the start of the 2012 season.

[canadian_bhoy]

Looks like the dude from It's called football has himself a gig at TFC.

[Oldtimer]

I like the direction TFCA are going.

[flatpicker]

Maybe a dumb question...
What is the purpose of the draft if a team can develop their own players?
And what are the rules for scouting out young promising players from other places and bringing them into the academy?
Essentially getting to them before they end up in the draft.
Or does it simply come down to college players and non-college players?

[boban]

http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/academy-get-younger[b]
Translation :
There's money to be made from these parents.

[Yohan]

Maybe a dumb question...
My understanding of all this is hazy and might get few things wrong

What is the purpose of the draft if a team can develop their own players?
NCAA still provides vast majority of soccer players for at least foreseeable future, and MLS has rules on how many academy players you can sign per season

And what are the rules for scouting out young promising players from other places and bringing them into the academy?
Essentially getting to them before they end up in the draft.
I believe each team has its own territory and they are not suppose to poach youth players from areas not in their own territory. So TFC would have exclusivity in Ontario, Columbus in Ohio, etc. Teams can also ask for exclusivity in places where there is no MLS teams, such as RSL with Arizona.
I don't believe there is a rule that prevents teams from getting youth from outside US/Can

Or does it simply come down to college players and non-college players?
I believe a player has to spend certain amount of time in a team's youth academy in order to be considered a 'home grown' player. Once a player goes to an NCAA college though, they have to be signed via draft

[Roogsy]

Looks like the dude from It's called football has himself a gig at TFC.


Boy are you behind the times. :lol:

[Pookie]

Translation :
There's money to be made from these parents.

?

sort of dismissing the whole benefits of an Academy program with one comment, no?

[Ossington Mental Youth]

academys train these kids for free (legit ones anyways) as they will eventually if they are good enough go on to play for the first team and maybe get sold to a bigger team, its to the academies advantage to keep no fees

[T_Mizz]

Translation :
There's money to be made from these parents.
That was a concern early on in the life of the academy but I believe that was more directed towards the idea of the open tryouts. Parents needed to pay to have their kids looked at. But now, I think that it's more established it has actually become a legitimate means of providing fresh young talent.


I believe a player has to spend certain amount of time in a team's youth academy in order to be considered a 'home grown' player. Once a player goes to an NCAA college though, they have to be signed via draft
I was reading a story on torontofc.ca I believe it was, that said that Neely's still looking really hard at Matt Stinson, who left the academy this year to go to Winthrop. In the article it said that we retained his rights, meaning (as I took it) that we could sign him at any point circumventing the superdraft. A similar situation happened a few years back when a Red Bulls academy grad was in the superdraft and they were allowed to sign him before he did so. I can't remember if they did, but I remember reading it was an option.

[rocker]

when MLS was young, essentially it outsourced most of its player development to the NCAA. It saved money that way, and college players were actually good enough for that level.

Now, as the league is financially stable, teams are taking on player development themselves to improve the quality of the young player. The recent changes in rules make that more enticing.

[oxygenatedbrain]

Not circumventing the draft...the team retains signing rights until the player is eligible (as a graduating senior) to enter the draft. At such time the team would have to exercise or waive its right.

[Pookie]

Whether it is TFC Academy or a private one sanctioned by the S.A.A.C, the cost part of the equation is irrelevant.

Parents already pay $0,000's of dollars each year for their kids to play with Club Rep programs (club fees + travel costs + tournament associated costs + winter training + etc.) Sadly, the emphasis there at a young age is on winning. There is no "guarantee" that the child will develop.

Expansion of the Academy philosophy into the younger ages is a good thing. The emphasis on training 4:1 or 5:1 , not keeping standings until U14, keeping the parents quiet on the sidelines, paid and qualified coaches vs the revolving door of volunteers in a Club system and I see nothing but upside.

Of course it is a buyer beware environment as Club programs seek to hang "Academy" shingles outside their offices without the rigors and commitment to the philosophy. If it isn't sanctioned by the SAAC... Soccer Academy Alliance of Canada... then you might not be getting an "Academy."

But as a former Club Rep coach whose spouse was on the Executive of the Club system, I can honestly say that our experience with the Academy environment has been overwhelmingly positive. While the costs are significant, they are comparable with the traditional club model.

[boban]

? sort of dismissing the whole benefits of an Academy program with one comment, no?
Not really. I get the idea of and u18, u17 teams(s). Give the older kids a place to further their skills and see what they are made of.
But we don't know if there are any real net benefits for soccer for TFC or Canada as a whole.
So without seeing the benefits yet of the kids they have now, they are opening teams for even younger ones. I hope things work out, but yet it hasn't so I'll continue to have my reservations.

[J .]

good news

[Yohan]

I was reading a story on torontofc.ca I believe it was, that said that Neely's still looking really hard at Matt Stinson, who left the academy this year to go to Winthrop. In the article it said that we retained his rights, meaning (as I took it) that we could sign him at any point circumventing the superdraft. A similar situation happened a few years back when a Red Bulls academy grad was in the superdraft and they were allowed to sign him before he did so. I can't remember if they did, but I remember reading it was an option.
I believe you're talking about Dilly Duka, and IIRC NY did try to sign him, but MLS said no and he was taken by Crew in MLS superdraft

[Pookie]

Not really. I get the idea of and u18, u17 teams(s). Give the older kids a place to further their skills and see what they are made of.
But we don't know if there are any real net benefits for soccer for TFC or Canada as a whole.
So without seeing the benefits yet of the kids they have now, they are opening teams for even younger ones. I hope things work out, but yet it hasn't so I'll continue to have my reservations.

I guess I see expansion of the Academy philosophy as a good thing. Regardless of immediate benefit.

The Club system is frought with problems, from the pyramid of play, to poaching, to the inherent volunteer system needed to drive it. Let's not even get into the CSA and Provincial Associations.

Now, there are great people within the Club system who would hold the same values that an Academy does. The challenge is that they can't implement their ideas.

My U9 team played 1-2 games per week, had 2 days set aside for training, and were forced into our own Rep tournament less than 2 weeks into the season. We had a season long table championship, a Cup Elimination tournament and 4 other tournaments mandated by the club. The standings were published on-line though fortunately individual "stats" weren't.

While the talk is about "development" that environment makes it next to impossible to do anything but put pressure on the Coach and his/her staff to get "results."

Other clubs, particularly in the GTA have an emphasis on winning so as to be able to attract better players. No need to develop players if you have a full trophy case because parents (generally) figure that a winning club must be doing something right.

Watch their games. See how often better players are subbed for poorer ones. Watch their practices. Do they focus on skill development? Or do they focus on tactics like set pieces or rigid positional play. How often does a defender get a chance to experience the game from a midfielder's perspective?

The Academy system is based on worldwide models that emphasize training over competition. Yes, there is competition but it is secondary to the development of the player. Parents are neutralized in the whole equation, the coaching is a step up as the funding permits a person to earn a living at it and they require credentials. The idea is simply that if you are U13 or younger, we'll teach you how to play the game. Once you get to U14, then we'll teach you how to be successful as a team.

I think the more that this philosophy catches on, the better it will be for kids and the sport in Canada.

[razor787]

Not really. I get the idea of and u18, u17 teams(s). Give the older kids a place to further their skills and see what they are made of.
But we don't know if there are any real net benefits for soccer for TFC or Canada as a whole.
So without seeing the benefits yet of the kids they have now, they are opening teams for even younger ones. I hope things work out, but yet it hasn't so I'll continue to have my reservations.

Training kids how to play soccer in a club enviroment isnt a possibility of success, its guarenteed. 2 years after the program started, we already have 2 graduates from the program. Opening it up to younger players will only have positive results. We will be able to teach them our way of playing from a young age, instead of them getting taught 50 different ways from the coaches they grow up with. Having an academy will give them a dicection, which will rapidly speed their progress

[denime]

Translation :
There's money to be made from these parents.:facepalm:

Academy is invitational only,Translation It's FREE

[T_Mizz]

Not circumventing the draft...the team retains signing rights until the player is eligible (as a graduating senior) to enter the draft. At such time the team would have to exercise or waive its right.
So precircumventing? anyone stronger than I in greek/latin know the proper term for that.

[London]

i have heard they want to go as young as 10 yr olds

[T_Mizz]

I believe you're talking about Dilly Duka, and IIRC NY did try to sign him, but MLS said no and he was taken by Crew in MLS superdraft
Nah it was way back and it was a very white sounding name like Matthew ________. Can't recall, but as it's been stated already, rights are maintained until they actually enter the draft, in their senior season/GA.

[boban]

Training kids how to play soccer in a club enviroment isnt a possibility of success, its guarenteed. 2 years after the program started, we already have 2 graduates from the program. Opening it up to younger players will only have positive results. We will be able to teach them our way of playing from a young age, instead of them getting taught 50 different ways from the coaches they grow up with. Having an academy will give them a dicection, which will rapidly speed their progress
What graduates do you speak of? The kid who mangled his knee a couple of weeks back? Plleeaasse.
Without the academy our country had Serioux, Dero, Stalteri, Gerba and so on. Some kid who has basically has yet to kick a ball in the league, much less improved the level of the club or national team is not a mark if something is success.
Nobody can say its a success yet. Yes we all hope it will - myself included. But that won't be known for a few years to come.

[backbeat]

What graduates do you speak of? The kid who mangled his knee a couple of weeks back? Plleeaasse.
Without the academy our country had Serioux, Dero, Stalteri, Gerba and so on. Some kid who has basically has yet to kick a ball in the league, much less improved the level of the club or national team is not a mark if something is success.
Nobody can say its a success yet. Yes we all hope it will - myself included. But that won't be known for a few years to come.

nonsense.

there are references worldwide that suggest academies develop talent for both club and country.

this is a great move, well invested by MLSE that is guaranteed to produce results for TFC and Canada (especially if they follow the Ajax methodology) - combine it with what will happen in Vancouver and Montreal and Canada will be producing a lot of talent in the coming generations.

[boban]

nonsense.

there are references worldwide that suggest academies develop talent for both club and country.

this is a great move, well invested by MLSE that is guaranteed to produce results for TFC and Canada (especially if they follow the Ajax methodology) - combine it with what will happen in Vancouver and Montreal and Canada will be producing a lot of talent in the coming generations.
Why are you putting words into my mouth.
Your post is nonsense.
We are talking about TFC academy, not others.
The word still has to be written about TFC Academy. Period!

[Cashcleaner]

I can't see how this news is anything but good. More player development is a good thing all-around, for both the club and national program. This news also shows that ownership finally "gets" what sort of infrastructure a professional club requires as part of it's long-term strategies.

[Shakes McQueen]

The word still has to be written about TFC Academy. Period!

True, but I still don't get how this news is anything but a good thing.

- Scott

[T_Mizz]

True, but I still don't get how this news is anything but a good thing.

- Scott
I think he's just saying let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's still a year off and probably 5 more years until we see the benefits, 10 until we can truly see how much it really helped. And if he's not saying that, he should be.

[Shakes McQueen]

I think he's just saying let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's still a year off and probably 5 more years until we see the benefits, 10 until we can truly see how much it really helped. And if he's not saying that, he should be.

True, but that's true of any new institution like this, and I don't see anyone arguing otherwise.

It's only good news that TFC are investing in a more robust academy system, and taking on younger and younger kids.

- Scott

[boban]

True, but I still don't get how this news is anything but a good thing.

- Scott
Because I have a high distrust in anything MLSE touches.
I have reservations it will succeed, and their motive is money, not player development. hence making money off the parents.

[Shakes McQueen]

Because I have a high distrust in anything MLSE touches.
I have reservations it will succeed, and their motive is money, not player development. hence making money off the parents.

They aren't making money off the parents, as a couple of other users have pointed out.

If their motivation is money, that money will be made in creating quality players that they can then send to the big team, or sell to other clubs. That benefits the team.

- Scott

[ManUtd4ever]

Because I have a high distrust in anything MLSE touches.
I have reservations it will succeed, and their motive is money, not player development. hence making money off the parents.

Have you ever considered that player development and profitability may in fact be condusive to one another long term? MLSE is investing in the infrastructure of the organization at a grass roots level which will provide a pipeline of home grown talent to the first team. It is entirely possible that at some point in the future, a few academy graduates might generate interest from European clubs and command a modest transfer fee.

EDIT- I see Scott already made the point

[Brooker]

There's always one.....

[T_Mizz]

True, but that's true of any new institution like this, and I don't see anyone arguing otherwise.

It's only good news that TFC are investing in a more robust academy system, and taking on younger and younger kids.

- Scott
Scratch that apparently he is taking the negative angle.
I for one agree that it is a great plan. I am a tad disappointed it's taken this long but I always knew they'd get there as it was a goal since day 1.

[ManUtd4ever]

^^ Speaking of which, whatever happened to Giambac, LOL?

[T_Mizz]

Have you ever considered that player development and profitablity may in fact be condusive to one another long term? MLSE is investing in the infrastructure of the organization at a grass roots level which will provide a pipeline of home grown talent to the first team. It is entirely possible that at some point in the future, a few academy graduates might generate interest from European clubs and command a modest transfer fee.

EDIT- I see Scott already made the point
If MLSE tries to get MLS to change the rules so that they are able to keep 100% of transfer fees from academy graduates then it would give the appearance of only looking to fill their pockets but right now I don't think that'd be a good investment (financially not in terms of making the team better) on their part, under the current rules.

[rocker]

If MLSE tries to get MLS to change the rules so that they are able to keep 100% of transfer fees from academy graduates then it would give the appearance of only looking to fill their pockets but right now I don't think that'd be a good investment (financially not in terms of making the team better) on their part, under the current rules.

And such a change would require a drastic change in the single entity system. Even if it was 100% it wouldn't be into the pockets of MLSE.. it would 100% going to allocation money to spend on players or facilities.

Let's not forget none of the players actually sign with Toronto FC. They sign with Major League Soccer.

[T_Mizz]

And such a change would require a drastic change in the single entity system. Even if it was 100% it wouldn't be into the pockets of MLSE.. it would 100% going to allocation money to spend on players or facilities.

Let's not forget none of the players actually sign with Toronto FC. They sign with Major League Soccer.
Ok so, safe to say that's not the intention of MLSE then, right?

[ag futbol]

I know this is a little off-topic but I found it funny that there are still some people (like that guy who posted under the article) who seem to think there is some secret society of players out there that TFC is missing out on.

I thought we were past this kind of crap. If you're that good, go play in the CSL and tear it up. It's not like TFC can stop you from joining one of the 12 or so teams in there. There are guys like Chris Suta and Miloš Šćepanović who have done just that.

Not saying we get every player. Not saying there aren't a few talented guys who have been overlooked. But overall TFCA is running a pretty decent operation and the players we have showed their quality.

Of course it's much more fun to take the piss about how yo boys would run circles around TFCA!

[TFCRegina]

I know this is a little off-topic but I found it funny that there are still some people (like that guy who posted under the article) who seem to think there is some secret society of players out there that TFC is missing out on.

I thought we were past this kind of crap. If you're that good, go play in the CSL and tear it up. It's not like TFC can stop you from joining one of the 12 or so teams in there. There are guys like Chris Suta and Miloš Šćepanović who have done just that.

Not saying we get every player. Not saying there aren't a few talented guys who have been overlooked. But overall TFCA is running a pretty decent operation and the players we have showed their quality.

Of course it's much more fun to take the piss about how yo boys would run circles around TFCA!

Free Masons FC is being ignored dammit!

Seriously, you hit the nail on the head. Which should emphasize the need to expand TFCA down further. Development needs to be perfected at younger levels because Canada simply is not producing the talent needed to be playing at a higher level.

[boban]

They aren't making money off the parents, as a couple of other users have pointed out.

If their motivation is money, that money will be made in creating quality players that they can then send to the big team, or sell to other clubs. That benefits the team.

- Scott
10, 12 yr. olds are not free. Too much of a gamble for them to be.
You have to remember this is MLSE we're talking about.
Can't compare them to 17 and 18 yr. olds.

[Shakes McQueen]

10, 12 yr. olds are not free. Too much of a gamble for them to be.
You have to remember this is MLSE we're talking about.
Can't compare them to 17 and 18 yr. olds.

Sure you can. Taking in kids at ages like 10 or 12, allows professional coaches to get these kids on a proper training regiment far earlier in life, and coach out potential bugs in their game long before they become ubreakable habits.

Much better than taking in kids who are already nearly adult age, and trying to turn them into professionals after years of rec league volounteer coaches, and so on.

I think this is a great move for the Academy.

- Scott

[Whoop]

Looking forward to the day when TFC can rely on its academy instead of NCAA players.

[T_Mizz]

Sure you can. Taking in kids at ages like 10 or 12, allows professional coaches to get these kids on a proper training regiment far earlier in life, and coach out potential bugs in their game long before they become ubreakable habits.

Much better than taking in kids who are already nearly adult age, and trying to turn them into professionals after years of rec league volounteer coaches, and so on.

I think this is a great move for the Academy.

- Scott
I feel like that's exactly what the top academies do, and I think that should be the goal of anyone setting up an academy, go big or go home.

[Waggy]

Well this thread spawned the easiest ignore list add I've ever seen. That's like arguing investing in a new stadium is dumb because the return can't be seen for years. How is any investment in development at all bad? Especially when it gives children a place to play? I don't hear any complaints about the GTHL and other leagues for kids as young as 10 that not only have coaches but have separate general managers who scout and recruit talent, then have parents pay out the ASS for it. It's one reason Canada develops good hockey players. It's also a scummy world (see the story of that girl who quit her team in Hamilton because of a douchy hockey dad). Such a public investment in allowing kids to develop in an open, fair and watched system can only be good in the short and long term. If not for the club and national team (which it obviously will), for parents and kids. Which really, sport is supposed to be about.

[Gazza_55]

My understanding of all this is hazy and might get few things wrong
NCAA still provides vast majority of soccer players for at least foreseeable future, and MLS has rules on how many academy players you can sign per season
I believe each team has its own territory and they are not suppose to poach youth players from areas not in their own territory. So TFC would have exclusivity in Ontario, Columbus in Ohio, etc. Teams can also ask for exclusivity in places where there is no MLS teams, such as RSL with Arizona.
I don't believe there is a rule that prevents teams from getting youth from outside US/Can
I believe a player has to spend certain amount of time in a team's youth academy in order to be considered a 'home grown' player. Once a player goes to an NCAA college though, they have to be signed via draft

MLS changed this in November 2010. There is no limit.

[Red CB Toronto]

^^ Speaking of which, whatever happened to Giambac, LOL?

I was curious to know myself, boy is that a board name from the past, I even went to the membership list for the board to see when he last posted and could not even find him in the list, what happened, can you unregister your board name?

[Oldtimer]

MLS does not allow their clubs' academies to charge players or their parents. So the business model is not that of making money by selling dreams to parents (the model of a lot of independent academies in North America). Rather it is like Vancouver has done quite successfully for a number of years and a lot of clubs do around the world: get players early, develop them and sell them. Keep a number of them for the first team.

In MLS, the club gets up to $500k in cap space for every player they sell. 2/3 of any transfer fee above $750k goes to the club for MLS-approved improvements (facilities, training, etc.), 1/3 goes to the league. So there is a tremendous incentive both for each club, and also for MLS as a whole to develop players.

If your cap is say $4 million two years from now, and you sell two players for $1 million each, you can potentially have $5 million in cap space (a 25% improvement), plus $320k extra for improvements! Plus your first team can benefit by having a stream of cheap home-grown talent. That is why ML$E pouring $$$ into the academy makes a lot of sense. It's how to build a long-term winner, which means more $$$$ for ML$E.

By the way, going to an NCAA college does not mean you have to enter the draft, if you are a home-grown player. That rule changed, a while ago as well. You just have to have been sufficiently long-time in your home club's academy.

[Cashcleaner]

Looking forward to the day when TFC can rely on its academy instead of NCAA players.

THIS.

In the very least, it just gives Toronto greater access to potential players and less dependence on the draft(s).

[Pookie]

Re: "selling dreams to parents" - I think you miss the bigger picture of independent, sanctioned academies. Cost is very comparable to the Club Rep systems with a great deal more developmental advantages.

One part of this that hasn't been addressed is whether a jump from academy to first team for an 18 year old is the best option for them. Foregoing the NCAA and a College education for the sake of a league minimum 42k isn't something I would advise any player to consider.

One injury and its over with nothing to fall back on. Even a solid MLS career would net player a salary of 100 to 200k per year. Hardly set for life and with no education, the post career life could be really uncomfortable.

I guess there is always the EPL dream but realistically, it isn't going to be an option for 99% of the graduates.

I am 100% in favour of the academy model for youth development but incorporating an education has to be an end goal for players (and administrators) of an academy program.

[Sullivan]

Good decision.
Strongest technical coaches should be working with the youngest players.

If they get the kids at 10ish, when the kid hits 15 / 16, the club should know if there's potential or not. No potential, kid gets released in time to salvage an opportunity to head south on a scholy at 17 or 18 ....

Getting a kid into the academy stream at 15 is too late. As previously stated, bad habits, and "outside" coaching have to me corrected.

It will be very interesting to see how TFCA "staff/stock" these younger programs: regional youth scouts? regional TFC youth ID camps? the OSA programs?

[Oldtimer]

One part of this that hasn't been addressed is whether a jump from academy to first team for an 18 year old is the best option for them. Foregoing the NCAA and a College education for the sake of a league minimum 42k isn't something I would advise any player to consider.


Don't forget that college education isn't for everyone. For some people their option is a vocational school. In those cases, taking a few years out to try to be a pro soccer player is not that big a deal, you can always take your truck driving lessons later.

[Beach_Red]

Don't forget that college education isn't for everyone. For some people their option is a vocational school. In those cases, taking a few years out to try to be a pro soccer player is not that big a deal, you can always take your truck driving lessons later.

Well, that's a fairly provocative way to put it, "truck driving lessons," but you're right, university isn't for everyone and the world of sports scholarships shouldn't be looked at so superficially as "good." Sure, soccer isn't at the point of football in the NCAA, but if the sport gets more popular it will likely go that way.

But vocational schools vs. college is a whole different topic (although one that doesn't get discussed enough and should).

[Sullivan]

Don't forget that college education isn't for everyone. For some people their option is a vocational school. In those cases, taking a few years out to try to be a pro soccer player is not that big a deal, you can always take your truck driving lessons later.

Frei "flunked out" at Cal. Good thing Gen A came along, he wasn't academically eligible for his senior year.

Also, re: minimizing and distancing TFC from the draft.
Here's some questions to think about.
How many players do you think TFCA should produce each year?
How many players do you think TFCA will produce each year?
Will the quality of play and player improve over the next couple of years?

[sidvan]

Re: "selling dreams to parents" - I think you miss the bigger picture of independent, sanctioned academies. Cost is very comparable to the Club Rep systems with a great deal more developmental advantages.



FYI - rep fees for Pickering are a whopping $575 per player plus regular registration $200 (last year) plus most had to pay a new winter registration fee of $125. Now add on the team budget cost for tournaments etc.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

How many players do you think TFCA should produce each year?
How many players do you think TFCA will produce each year?
Will the quality of play and player improve over the next couple of years?

1- Ideally more than we can sign, but id be happy with 1-3 for the first few years
2- Prob about 1-3, as many as we have had in the last few years
3- absolutely, take a look at how far we've come as a league within the last 4 years. I think what we are doing with our academy will definitely put us eventually in the top 5

[Pachuco]

Really good news! Happy to see the Academy moving in the right direcftion.

[Oldtimer]

Well, that's a fairly provocative way to put it, "truck driving lessons,"

Nothing wrong with truck driving lessons, so don't take it that way. My brother-in-law drove a rig to the U.S. for several years until he got into farming.

Vocations can be a real option, sometimes a better one.

[Beach_Red]

Nothing wrong with truck driving lessons, so don't take it that way. My brother-in-law drove a rig to the U.S. for several years until he got into farming.

Vocations can be a real option, sometimes a better one.


I regret wasting all those years in university almost every day ;). But seriously, yes, vocational schools are often (mostly?) the best option. Too bad they don't offer scholarships that could be used at a later date - let the kids go full out in athletics until they're 22-23 years old and then pay for a few years of school. And vocational schools are offering a lot more of what we used to think as college studies (I had a few professors who used to rant that, "university is not and never was job training" :D).

[Sullivan]

Nothing wrong with truck driving lessons, so don't take it that way. My brother-in-law drove a rig to the U.S. for several years until he got into farming.

Vocations can be a real option, sometimes a better one.

Sir Alex started off working in the shipyards, his job was treating metal with various coatings. And then it was off to football ...

[Pookie]

It will be very interesting to see how TFCA "staff/stock" these younger programs: regional youth scouts? regional TFC youth ID camps? the OSA programs?

Most likely it will come through the CAP, (Club Academy Program).

http://www.torontofc.ca/club-academy-program

"Working in coordination with the Toronto FC Academy, the CAPs will demand a premium level of training that will allow for involved players, ages 7 to 16, to be monitored and scouted in hopes of joining the Toronto FC Academy as full-time members. The CAPs will create training environments that simulate the professional experience that Toronto FC’s current Academy teams are accustomed to, and through club cooperation, will allow for friendly competition and collaboration for additional scouting opportunities. In addition, an exchange of coaching information, workshops and seminars will be provided to the participating clubs"

...

"The following programs are the first to join the CAP: Barrie SC, Bryst International, Capital United SC (Ottawa), Cavan FC, Pickering SC, Nepean Hotspurs SC, Thunder Bay Chill, and Unionville-Milliken SC. Several other clubs have expressed interest and will likely be added to the CAP in Phase 2 (late summer/early fall 2010)."

Knowing some of those clubs, I'd say that some are much further along in terms of infrastructure. The challenge for the non-SAAC sanctioned groups will be how to accomplish "individual development" in an extremely competitive pyramid of play environment that relies heavily on volunteers.

That said, talented club players will likely succeed and be identified despite the efforts of their clubs.

[Oldtimer]

The challenge for the non-SAAC sanctioned groups will be how to accomplish "individual development" in an extremely competitive pyramid of play environment that relies heavily on volunteers.


I'd agree. Obviously, a SAAC group like Bryst is going to have an edge compared to a volunteer-driver situation.

It looks like what's happening in Canada is a transformation in progress.


That said, talented club players will likely succeed and be identified despite the efforts of their clubs.

It still bothers me how no-one wanted Julian's brother, and I'm not always sure that some talent "won't get away."

[Pookie]

I'd agree. Obviously, a SAAC group like Bryst is going to have an edge compared to a volunteer-driver situation.



I know that we've had TFC scouts out at Bryst last fall and Neely was touring Ottawa last year. I get the sense that the exchange of coaching resources is also a key component. Again, much easier to do with consistent, paid staff.

As for the other clubs, I can only speak for one and they have done nothing with it so far. Haven't even put the logo up on the website.

Biggest challenge I see is getting parents to buy into the concept of "development" over results at the younger ages. What do you mean that we'd train for 3 months without an exhibition game? What do you mean we aren't practicing set pieces? That whole session was dedicated to footwork, why are they spending all this time on footwork when they lost the last game because of poor marking? I need to move to Club X, they went undefeated last year. The kids had a bad year, they finished last. Etc, etc.

Unforunately, most everything about the club system screams results which is quite opposite to the way a true academy would approach the younger ages. The bigger TFC-Academy and the philosophy of the SAAC can get, the better it will be for the kids.



PS... I still think that the majority of them should be thinking about soccer AND getting an education as a back up ;)

[Sullivan]

It still bothers me how no-one wanted Julian's brother, and I'm not always sure that some talent "won't get away."

Way back on a wintery Saturday morning, the assistant manager of the indoor centre in Scarborough is talking with Bryan Rosenfield of the CSA. The OSA development program had just finished a session and Rosenfield was one of the coaches.

So the assistant mgr says to Rosenfield, "stick around, there's a 9 year old playing u12 this afternoon, and he's one of the better players".

Rosenfield blows the assistant mgr off, tells the assistant manager to, "have the kid's coach refer him through proper channels".

The 9 year old was Jonathan de Guzman.

[torfchamilton]

Setting up the academy with all the age groups will be a good thing. Long term investment of potential players for TFC and for players to be sold elsewhere.

In terms of SAAC vs Club, SAAC has the right structure and some clubs have the same focus as well.

Coaching needs to get better, but I have seen a switch the last few years with respect to better coaches and more "soccer" people involved in the grassroots stuff.

I posted this video in the Canadian section, but this conversation I am sure has come up if you are a coach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gETP14z515Q&feature=player_embedded

[ag futbol]

Way back on a wintery Saturday morning, the assistant manager of the indoor centre in Scarborough is talking with Bryan Rosenfield of the CSA. The OSA development program had just finished a session and Rosenfield was one of the coaches.

So the assistant mgr says to Rosenfield, "stick around, there's a 9 year old playing u12 this afternoon, and he's one of the better players".

Rosenfield blows the assistant mgr off, tells the assistant manager to, "have the kid's coach refer him through proper channels".

The 9 year old was Jonathan de Guzman.
Hearing stuff like that kills me. It's that guy's job to scout talent and if you believe that story he gives less than a rats ass to turn over a pebble to do anything extra.

Meanwhile, over in Holland you have guys volunteering to scout U6 leagues to make sure places like Ajax get a steady stream of talent.

[denime]

Way back on a wintery Saturday morning, the assistant manager of the indoor centre in Scarborough is talking with Bryan Rosenfield of the CSA. The OSA development program had just finished a session and Rosenfield was one of the coaches.

So the assistant mgr says to Rosenfield, "stick around, there's a 9 year old playing u12 this afternoon, and he's one of the better players".

Rosenfield blows the assistant mgr off, tells the assistant manager to, "have the kid's coach refer him through proper channels".

The 9 year old was Jonathan de Guzman.
Rosenfield or not,he would not stay in Canada anyway.

One of the reasons you can hear in the interview with his older brother on GoolTV who clearly said that he was pushing Jonathan to move to Europe as early as possible.JDG vent with 15 and realized if JDG2 moves earlier he would have better chance to develop,and the fact that after his father played him in a game when he was suspended because of previus red card,OSA suspended JDG2 for the rest of the year,made the decision to move was even easier.

[denime]

Hearing stuff like that kills me. It's that guy's job to scout talent and if you believe that story he gives less than a rats ass to turn over a pebble to do anything extra.

Meanwhile, over in Holland you have guys volunteering to scout U6 leagues to make sure places like Ajax get a steady stream of talent.

Not only in Holland,actually Ajax Academy staff is here every summer at Hershey center for 2 weeks since 2005.

Ajax coaches review (http://www.sigma-sports.net/idCamp/coachesReview.html)

[jazzy]

Not really. I get the idea of and u18, u17 teams(s). Give the older kids a place to further their skills and see what they are made of.
But we don't know if there are any real net benefits for soccer for TFC or Canada as a whole.
So without seeing the benefits yet of the kids they have now, they are opening teams for even younger ones. I hope things work out, but yet it hasn't so I'll continue to have my reservations.

If we have even a smaller amount of the success, Ajax now has, this is the only way to go......how can teaching attitutes, confidence and skills to youngsters not be a success.....if not for the players involved themselves as individuals, but some WILL eventually be the centreposts of the league. We have dedicated coaches and mentors enthusiastically sharing their knowledge and love of the game......that pays off in spades, even if say some of the not so successful kids move on as teachers in our school system, or any other ways and means to give back to society....amazing...win /win

[Rudi]

Nah it was way back and it was a very white sounding name like Matthew ________. Can't recall, but as it's been stated already, rights are maintained until they actually enter the draft, in their senior season/GA.
Matt Kassell.

He signed with NYRB as a homegrown just a few hours ago, actually.