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Oldtimer
01-23-2011, 08:36 AM
What did – and didn’t – happen yesterday


http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?1031-What-did-%E2%80%93-and-didn%E2%80%99t-%E2%80%93-happen-yesterday


New York Cosmos: Why MLS may not be the endgame


http://www.hottimeinoldtown.com/2011/1/22/1945623/new-york-cosmos-why-mls-may-not-be-the-endgame


Local buzz: Soccer temperature hot in Portland - for now


http://sports.yahoo.com/mls/news?slug=ycn-7664718


Taking a Look at the TFC Squad with Preseason Looming


http://torontofc.theoffside.com/uncategorized/taking-a-look-at-the-tfc-squad-with-preseason-looming.html

ManUtd4ever
01-23-2011, 08:55 AM
http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/

:yum: <3 :D

Batman
01-23-2011, 09:39 AM
The Cosmos article, seems like a pile of steaming .... verbiage.

king dave
01-23-2011, 10:14 AM
Thought you might like this bit I came across this weekend on the LFC site.
'Total football'.
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/kuyt-it-s-like-total-football

KD.

ManUtd4ever
01-23-2011, 10:20 AM
The Cosmos article, seems like a pile of steaming .... verbiage.

Agreed. The notion that the NY Cosmos would be better served headlining a rival soccer league as opposed to investing in an MLS franchise is absurd considering that the most viable soccer markets in the U.S. and Canada have already been secured by MLS...

arbogast
01-23-2011, 11:10 AM
Agreed. The notion that the NY Cosmos would be better served headlining a rival soccer league as opposed to investing in an MLS franchise is absurd considering that the most viable soccer markets in the U.S. and Canada have already been secured by MLS...

but the aricle states, and I agree with the assertion, that MLS isn't really serving major markets like Chicago, Dallas, Philly, Denver, NYC and LA because the stadiums are out in the middle of nowhere and the teams have a weak presence in the actual cities they purport to serve. The author does have a point that those markets could be ripe for the picking, especially with the USSF refusing to sanction NASL, there could be more drama ahead for the sport.

TorCanSoc
01-23-2011, 11:49 AM
I think creating a league from scratch, to not only stay afloat, but surpass MLS is ridiculous. But to latch on to an existing league's infrastructure and make it better is not far fetched. I often wondered why the A-League (at the time) bowed down to MLS, and accepted its second div status, when they had Rochester, Montreal, Vancouver and Portland in strong situations. Each of those franchises could be considered stronger than the lowest four MLS franchises. (different time I know)

I don't quit understand the new NASL league. The A-League was rebranded USL Div I, then it imploded with mont, vanc, and some of the other big teams to bail and create the NASL? And they were called USL Div II (really saying its three division down from MLS?) I think that was a band-aid moniker to appease the USSF.

Anyway... NY Cosmos in a proper running USL 1, why not a rival league? Its all moot now because I think USL is a mess.

Not sure what the hell I'm posting. Random thoughts. We were posting like mad about breaking off into a Canadian league. I just think a rival league is not as far-fetched as it seems. The Cosmos thing is way too much too quick, I'll accept that as bunk.

Where'd this 75 mill figure come from for an MLS franchise? One could build a no frills 10,000 seat grass stadium in a downtown location for that price no?

Oldtimer
01-23-2011, 12:01 PM
The whole Cosmos maybe setting up a competitive league conspiracy theory is ridiculous and ranks with some of the more bizarre ML$E conspiracy stories that we've seen on this board.

What I expect is that they do want to transform the league, which is probably our biggest hope for MLS to loosen the nanny-strings and make MLS more like the other D-1 leagues that we love. MLS' caution has really helped build a stable base, but excessive caution is preventing MLS from becoming a true world-class league.

Batman
01-23-2011, 12:02 PM
The whole Cosmos maybe setting up a competitive league conspiracy theory is ridiculous and ranks with some of the more bizarre ML$E conspiracy stories that we've seen on this board.

What I expect is that they do want to transform the league, which is probably our biggest hope for MLS to loosen the nanny-strings and make MLS more like the other D-1 leagues that we love. MLS' caution has really helped build a stable base, but excessive caution is preventing MLS from becoming a true world-class league.

couldn't agree more. well said.

Damien
01-23-2011, 12:06 PM
Dear Marvell Wynne: Please take up another sport. Regards, American soccer fans

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/blog.php?b=10827&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bigsoccer-blog+%28BigSoccer+-+Featured+Blogs%29

ensco
01-23-2011, 12:13 PM
Feels like we're not pulling our weight, given that we're at least part of the heart and soul of soccer in Canada's biggest city. I know I'm not paying enough attention to the CSA fight. Obviously, same can be said for the Toronto-based soccer media.

Does it deserve more prominence on these boards? A stickied thread?

TFCRegina
01-23-2011, 12:20 PM
Feels like we're not pulling our weight, given that we're at least part of the heart and soul of soccer in Canada's biggest city. I know I'm not paying enough attention to the CSA fight. Obviously, same can be said for the Toronto-based soccer media.

Does it deserve more prominence on these boards? A stickied thread?

I've been trying to cover it as best as possible. The ASA dispute thread in the Canadian Soccer subforum has some stuff. I've also posted things in the news here.

Didn't seem to be much general interest.

Detroit_TFC
01-23-2011, 12:28 PM
NASL (v2) was originally a split off of owners unhappy with USL governance. Some people think that USSF will relent and give them Div 2, especially since USL doesn't want it anymore. Considering that Traffic Soccer Management right now are subsidizing several NASL teams, not sure it is viable.

Oldtimer
01-23-2011, 12:36 PM
Thought you might like this bit I came across this weekend on the LFC site.
'Total football'.
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/kuyt-it-s-like-total-football

KD.

Good find.

It also shows how a coaching team can work well together.

Sullivan
01-23-2011, 01:00 PM
I've been trying to cover it as best as possible. The ASA dispute thread in the Canadian Soccer subforum has some stuff. I've also posted things in the news here.

Didn't seem to be much general interest.

Majority of TFC supporters don't know anything about the CSA, the provinces or the districts. As a matter of clarity, this is not meant to inflame, take a shot at or belittle TFC supporters. It's a reflection of my interaction with other supporters at BMO.

CSA has very little to do with TFC; very little revenue to the CSA from TFC. CSA has very little interaction with MLSE, and when or what they need to know they get from Cochrane or Neely, informally.

CSA does what it wants, when it wants, because the grassroots clubs are a lot like the CSA, everyone has their own little kingdom to protect. Regardless of the level or jurisdiction, football in Canada is very parochial. Look no further than where MoJo took TFC/MLSE ...

king dave
01-23-2011, 01:17 PM
Good find.

It also shows how a coaching team can work well together.

Definately.
Kinda feel the new on-field management here might be similar,

"And while Clarke (de Klerk) is ­doing sessions with us, Dalglish (Winter) will talk all the stress away from the players."

KD.

sidvan
01-23-2011, 01:28 PM
I've been trying to cover it as best as possible. The ASA dispute thread in the Canadian Soccer subforum has some stuff. I've also posted things in the news here.

Didn't seem to be much general interest.

Been following your posts wrt this consistently. Sounds like we are all being served the same slop from the soccer org. bodies. This crap is coming from the local clubs too.

TFCRegina
01-23-2011, 01:33 PM
Been following your posts wrt this consistently. Sounds like we are all being served the same slop from the soccer org. bodies. This crap is coming from the local clubs too.

Well, I think in the last 3 days we've had some serious turnaround at the ASA, but two members of the board remain (because there were no legit grievances against them). These two were appointed by the old Mario led board, and may have the right to appoint all the remaining board members under the current bylaws of the ASA. We might just end up with another anti-reform board.

The situation requires monitoring.

The nice thing though, is that a bylaw passed that rules out holding official positions at a district level and then also being a board member. This greatly reduces the conflict of interest risks in the organization.

Now if we could only get something similar passed at the CSA level.

If a pro-reform board is appointed in Alberta, we could feasibly have an optimal reform package at the CSA with Alberta and Ontario championing it.

Battle is far from over though.

sidvan
01-23-2011, 01:38 PM
Who is responsible for registering the bylaw? If it doesn't get registered by your AGM in two weeks it might all be for naught is that true?

TFCRegina
01-23-2011, 01:45 PM
Who is responsible for registering the bylaw? If it doesn't get registered by your AGM in two weeks it might all be for naught is that true?

My knowledge of that is limited.

Beach_Red
01-23-2011, 01:57 PM
The whole Cosmos maybe setting up a competitive league conspiracy theory is ridiculous and ranks with some of the more bizarre ML$E conspiracy stories that we've seen on this board.

What I expect is that they do want to transform the league, which is probably our biggest hope for MLS to loosen the nanny-strings and make MLS more like the other D-1 leagues that we love. MLS' caution has really helped build a stable base, but excessive caution is preventing MLS from becoming a true world-class league.


He's right about the other leagues all being the result of mergers but that was only because the established leagues at the time didn't allow for more teams to join. If soccer gets popular enough in the USA that it can support more than 20 teams then it'll probably go to some kind of promotion/relegation to get more markets involved.

Seems a long way off, though.

Sullivan
01-23-2011, 02:30 PM
Who is responsible for registering the bylaw? If it doesn't get registered by your AGM in two weeks it might all be for naught is that true?

The membership; and then of course the executive of said entity.
Clearly we've seen the CSA ignore, manipulate and/or act in direct conflict of established governance policys not just in the Alberta conflict, but situations as well.

Amendments to an entity's strutucture and/or governance (constitution, by-laws, rules and regulations) would be outlined within the documents themselves.

Problem is, I'm a registered coach, so I'm a member of my local club, and that's where my input stops - I only get to vote within my local club. However, the CSA and the OSA say I'm a member, but a member with no vote. Sport Canada says the CSA is a democratic organization, of which they acknowledge that I'm a member. They fail to comment on my lack of ability to vote, provincially (OSA) or nationally (CSA). Both the CSA & OSA acknolwedge that I'm a member, and clearly acknolwedge that my membership fee is their main/majority revenue stream, however, when I ask/seek clarity/transparency in disclosure I'm shut down because the information is privileged. Again, Sport Canada and my local MP conveniently ignore this fact.

So as a member, somewhere I surrendered my vote at the district level to my club; and my club surrenders thier vote to the province. If the fix is in, no matter how I feel about an issue, I have no direct voice to an amendment or a proposal on a new amendment, because the club or the district is in control of the vote.

I've seen first hand how an issure was defeated within my club (an 84-3 vote) at the AGM, but the club executive (7 people) decided that they would ignore that vote and voted in favour of the issue, as per the wishes of the local district association because the OSA wanted it so.

Make no mistake about local and provincial governance, the rot, the imcompetence, the politics, the greed, the thurst for power, control and influence is just as much in play locally and provincially as it is at the CSA level.

My mate was involved with the group that published the Deloitte report on the CSA. The stuff that he gets on the CSA and the OSA and eventually shares with us makes the hair on my neck stand up.

Roogsy
01-23-2011, 02:44 PM
That's the first time I have heard the MLS franchise fee approaching $75mill. Is there any evidence to back that up? That would be a ridiculous franchise fee in a league where most teams still aren't making money.

ManUtd4ever
01-23-2011, 02:50 PM
That's the first time I have heard the MLS franchise fee approaching $75mill. Is there any evidence to back that up? That would be a ridiculous franchise fee in a league where most teams still aren't making money.

The entire article is a fabrication. The most recent MLS franchise fees paid by Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal were in the 40 million dollar range.

boban
01-23-2011, 03:01 PM
The entire article is a fabrication. The most recent MLS franchise fees paid by Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal were in the 40 million dollar range.
They were $35mil to be more procise.
But who is to say what the next fee will be. So you can't say its a fabrication.

Gazza_55
01-23-2011, 03:36 PM
but the aricle states, and I agree with the assertion, that MLS isn't really serving major markets like Chicago, Dallas, Philly, Denver, NYC and LA because the stadiums are out in the middle of nowhere and the teams have a weak presence in the actual cities they purport to serve. The author does have a point that those markets could be ripe for the picking, especially with the USSF refusing to sanction NASL, there could be more drama ahead for the sport.

Red Bull Arena cost $200m in Harrison, NJ so serving major markets with stadiums in the downtown core would mean double or more likely triple that cost. Who is making that kind of investment especially if the rival league has zero cost controls in the form of a salary cap?

TFCRegina
01-23-2011, 03:47 PM
Red Nation Online - The Pre-Preseason Podcast

http://www.rednationonline.ca/podcast.shtml#2011PreseasonPodcast

boban
01-23-2011, 04:06 PM
Red Bull Arena cost $200m in Harrison, NJ so serving major markets with stadiums in the downtown core would mean double or more likely triple that cost. Who is making that kind of investment especially if the rival league has zero cost controls in the form of a salary cap?
To be fair a good chunk of that cost was for cleaning the contaminated lands the stadium was on, the countless construction delays, and the redrawing of plans as the design totally changed.
Actual construction cost was south of $150 mil.

Beach_Red
01-23-2011, 04:22 PM
They were $35mil to be more procise.
But who is to say what the next fee will be. So you can't say its a fabrication.


And what did MLSE pay, $3 mil? So they are going up....

boban
01-23-2011, 04:38 PM
but the aricle states, and I agree with the assertion, that MLS isn't really serving major markets like Chicago, Dallas, Philly, Denver, NYC and LA because the stadiums are out in the middle of nowhere and the teams have a weak presence in the actual cities they purport to serve. The author does have a point that those markets could be ripe for the picking, especially with the USSF refusing to sanction NASL, there could be more drama ahead for the sport.
Lot of bs in that statement.
Yes the stadiums are not downtown .. but so what.
Tonnes of teams in other leagues are in the same boat, yet they draw more than just fine.
I can see an issue with Dallas, Denver, and New England, but thats only 3 stadia, you don't build a league based on that. And there are quiet murmurs that New England is looking to move much closer to Boston.
Harrison is 15k from downtown core, that's like playing somewhere around Dixie Rd in TO, hardly far, same with Philly, LA, Salt Lake, and countless of bigger clubs in Europe.

Get over yourselves if you think stadiums have to be in walking distance of a city's skyscrapers.

Oldtimer
01-23-2011, 04:47 PM
And what did MLSE pay, $3 mil? So they are going up....

$10 mil. Plus they were on the hook for any construction over-runs and had to manage the construction of the NSS (BMO Field).

boban
01-23-2011, 04:52 PM
$10 mil. Plus they were on the hook for any construction over-runs and had to manage the construction of the NSS (BMO Field).
First, what does franchise fee have to do with stadium construction cost I don't know - or vice versa.
Second, there were no cost overruns. Brought in under if anything.
Third, they managed no such construction of the NSS, that was done by PCL.

Mark in Ottawa
01-23-2011, 05:00 PM
but the aricle states, and I agree with the assertion, that MLS isn't really serving major markets like Chicago, Dallas, Philly, Denver, NYC and LA because the stadiums are out in the middle of nowhere and the teams have a weak presence in the actual cities they purport to serve.
I personally don't think that it matters much exactly where the stadium is... as long as fans have a mature transportation system to get them there.
The Ottawa Senators hockey team plays on the outskirts of the city and if they weren't playing hockey (or some semblance of these days :rolleyes:) they would have trouble drawing as our transportation infrastructure sucks. That is especially true if you don't have access to a car in this neck of the woods.

If TFC played almost anywhere along a subway or go-train line they would be fine. I think it is the same with these other MLS cities. If they give the fans a way to get to the games that doesn't cost an arm and a leg then the true fans will come. And then building a winning team will bring the rest!

Oldtimer
01-23-2011, 06:27 PM
First, what does franchise fee have to do with stadium construction cost I don't know - or vice versa.
Second, there were no cost overruns. Brought in under if anything.
Third, they managed no such construction of the NSS, that was done by PCL.

ML$E hired PCL, not the CSA, and ML$E was ultimately responsible. You are correct that there were no cost over-runs, the project was extremely well-managed. Kudos to ML$E in choosing a good firm. Their shareholders must be happy.

I never said that the stadium cost had anything to do with the franchise fee. However, it figures in the total cost. ML$E got in really cheap, almost amazingly cheap in retrospect, but not quite as cheaply as the $3 million that Beach Red guessed. That was my point.

denime
01-23-2011, 07:45 PM
Thought you might like this bit I came across this weekend on the LFC site.
'Total football'.
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/kuyt-it-s-like-total-football

KD.

Good find and I like this part the most.

Kuyt said: "It comes close to the Dutch style. *Playing with early pressure on the opponents and a passing game with the ball low on the ground. Not all those long balls anymore.
:D

Alixir
01-23-2011, 07:52 PM
Red Bull Arena cost $200m in Harrison, NJ so serving major markets with stadiums in the downtown core would mean double or more likely triple that cost. Who is making that kind of investment especially if the rival league has zero cost controls in the form of a salary cap?could you imagine the annual property tax for a stadium in manhattan!

C.Ronaldo
01-23-2011, 09:44 PM
ML$E hired PCL, not the CSA, and ML$E was ultimately responsible. You are correct that there were no cost over-runs, the project was extremely well-managed. Kudos to ML$E in choosing a good firm. Their shareholders must be happy.

I never said that the stadium cost had anything to do with the franchise fee. However, it figures in the total cost. ML$E got in really cheap, almost amazingly cheap in retrospect, but not quite as cheaply as the $3 million that Beach Red guessed. That was my point.


I worked at PCL at the time it was a construction management project, so MLSE was on the hook, zero risk to PCL.
What MLSE did to keep cost down was go super cheap, they used the crappiest elevators, the plastic walls behind the suites, minimal bathrooms, etc...

Even PCL thought MLSE was being overly cheap penny pinchers

Redcoe15
01-23-2011, 10:41 PM
What I expect is that they do want to transform the league, which is probably our biggest hope for MLS to loosen the nanny-strings and make MLS more like the other D-1 leagues that we love. MLS' caution has really helped build a stable base, but excessive caution is preventing MLS from becoming a true world-class league.
How can the proposed Cosmos do that if they come into MLS and have to follow the league's rules? MLS isn't popular enough in the U.S. and Canada that they can loosen those nanny strings and expect everyone to have at it. The last thing it needs is some rogue franchise coming in and blowing everyone out of the water with their spending habits, like the old Cosmos did.

boban
01-23-2011, 10:46 PM
ML$E hired PCL, not the CSA, and ML$E was ultimately responsible. You are correct that there were no cost over-runs, the project was extremely well-managed. Kudos to ML$E in choosing a good firm. Their shareholders must be happy.
Well on that thought process then MLSE manages the trades of the Maple Leafs. PCL was hired, after which MLSE pretty much had nothing to do with the project as far as construction goes. When one says so and so managed something, it's understood its the days to day stuff, not the entity footing the bill.


I never said that the stadium cost had anything to do with the franchise fee. However, it figures in the total cost. ML$E got in really cheap, almost amazingly cheap in retrospect, but not quite as cheaply as the $3 million that Beach Red guessed. That was my point.
You inferred it by mentioning it with franchise fees.

boban
01-23-2011, 10:49 PM
I worked at PCL at the time it was a construction management project, so MLSE was on the hook, zero risk to PCL.
What MLSE did to keep cost down was go super cheap, they used the crappiest elevators, the plastic walls behind the suites, minimal bathrooms, etc...

Even PCL thought MLSE was being overly cheap penny pinchers
It was a risk to PCL.. No profit if not under budget.
There were many other parts they went cheap on or got 'deals' from manufacturers on.

Redcoe15
01-23-2011, 10:50 PM
but the aricle states, and I agree with the assertion, that MLS isn't really serving major markets like Chicago, Dallas, Philly, Denver, NYC and LA because the stadiums are out in the middle of nowhere and the teams have a weak presence in the actual cities they purport to serve. The author does have a point that those markets could be ripe for the picking, especially with the USSF refusing to sanction NASL, there could be more drama ahead for the sport.
The reason those cities have their stadiums out in the boonies is because they couldn't get the land they needed inside those cities to build their stadiums because A) land is expensive, and/or b) there was no interest in assisting them to build a soccer only stadium. Just how does a rival soccer league expect to challenge MLS by taking advantage of those cities they aren't "serving", when MLS couldn't get those cities to help them out in the first place?

TFCRegina
01-24-2011, 01:05 AM
Milan Borjan's Story - Our New Canuck Keeper

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Borjan_grateful_for_opportunity_Canada_presents_ja nuary_24_11_article.shtml

Yohan
01-24-2011, 04:01 AM
Gotta love the Spanish announcers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTm7li1exFE&feature=player_embedded

original

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwqlziAnqSg&feature=player_embedded

Brooker
01-24-2011, 05:20 AM
So glad he is playing for the US. Celebrates like such a cunt.