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denime
01-12-2011, 06:24 AM
Mornin'



TFC, Celtic 'working out' De Ro loan deal (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2011/01/11/16850851.html)


Ajax Meets The New World (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/ajax-meets-new-world)


Toronto FC prospect out for 2011 (http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/01/11/sp-lindsay-tfc-surgery.html)



SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)_:noidea:

James17930
01-12-2011, 06:49 AM
Really pissed about Lindsay. Was looking forward to him being one of the early bright spots of next season.

Fuck.

Wagner
01-12-2011, 07:13 AM
That might be the worst SSG i've ever seen.

shutupkid
01-12-2011, 07:31 AM
SSG - That old dude has big cans.

lips
01-12-2011, 08:04 AM
Mornin'

scooter
01-12-2011, 08:07 AM
mornin d

prizby
01-12-2011, 08:18 AM
That might be the worst SSG i've ever seen.

r u kidding...its not as bad as some of the one's from last week...certainly not so bad for someone who has had SIX kids

ManUtd4ever
01-12-2011, 08:44 AM
Aron Winter and Paul Mariner certainly have their work cut out for them...



Toronto FC opens training camp in just two short weeks and with a roster short in numbers, it’s unlikely Toronto would let their best player miss all-important preparation time and acclimatization period with the new coaching and managerial staff.

Between the long-term ACL/MCL injury to 18-year old Nicholas Lindsay and Designated Player Julian de Guzman sidelined for an unspecified period of time recovering from knee surgery of his own, Toronto FC finds itself extremely short on squad numbers. Only 15 healthy players, including De Rosario are on the current senior roster, with three players being goalkeepers. And two of the other counted players; centre-backs Nana Attakora and Adrian Cann remain in contractual limbo.

sashavukelich
01-12-2011, 08:45 AM
http://www.teamtalk.com/scottish-premier/6658665/Huseklepp-pushing-for-Hoops-move

this is the guy that DeRO is 'competing' with for a potential contract at Celtic. I find it hilarious that he's willing to forego money to sign whilst, and i like him DeRO, DeRO's motivation may be based around unfulfilled ambition and money.

Mark in Ottawa
01-12-2011, 08:50 AM
Mornin D.
Here's one for ya.
Dolphin hopes to make splash in MLS draft
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mls/news?slug=capress-soc_mls_dophins_choice-5625353

Who needs Paul the Octopus when we have our very own... unnamed Dolphin :noidea:

Darlofletch
01-12-2011, 08:54 AM
My thoughts (http://www.cruelgeography.com/2011/01/ornoch-knock-knocking-on-heavens-door.html) on ornoch, the draft, and just how much work needs to be done for the short term.

[NBF]
01-12-2011, 09:05 AM
SSG: Leopard print and Hipster panty hose, I don't know I think someone just recently had a divorce and has plastered themselves across the world of Toronto in a desperate race to say I'm available. Just my 2 cents.:drinking:

TFC: We need to stop the focus on the attack and think about the defense. Plain and simple, and yes we need to take the best defender in the draft and if we have to trade DeRo in order to get that person lets do that. I wouldn't mind if we traded DeRosario to get one of the CB/RB that played for AKRON.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 09:12 AM
SSG - That old dude has big cans.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Technorgasm
01-12-2011, 09:38 AM
Cann and Nana's situations still have NOT been sorted and we are 2 weeks from Camp?

That is shocking news.
I hope that the popular centiment here is these two are th4 core of our defence. .

. . . . cuz. . . they are.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 09:58 AM
lets hope it gets resolved. as i said in the other thread, wasnt so worried but am a bit now. realistically where are they going to go? they arent exactly on the radar of a ton of teams. I hope they arent asking for 200k a piece, thats just not reasonable. on the same hand, we better not be only offering 70k a piece. I kinda feel like 100-120k is reaosnable.

TFCRegina
01-12-2011, 10:56 AM
That might be the worst SSG i've ever seen.

It's like Sarah Jessica Parker Deluxe...now with even more ugly.

keem-o-sabi
01-12-2011, 11:02 AM
coed ladies 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/01/12/miss-coed-mary-casarreal-11-pics/) & 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/2011/01/12/miss-coed-mary-casarreal-11-pics/) and a bonus (http://coedmagazine.com/2010/12/23/miss-coed-kimama-bishop-22-pics/)since the SSG is so awful

Ageroo
01-12-2011, 11:02 AM
If this is posted anywhere forgive me....looks like any dreams of Will Johnson coming to TFC done for a while at least...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/real-salt-lake-re-sign-johnson-through-2014 (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/real-salt-lake-re-sign-johnson-through-2014)

Pachuco
01-12-2011, 11:20 AM
If this is posted anywhere forgive me....looks like any dreams of Will Johnson coming to TFC done for a while at least...

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/real-salt-lake-re-sign-johnson-through-2014 (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/real-salt-lake-re-sign-johnson-through-2014)

Doesn't mean RSL won't trade him though. I thought Dero was a write off when he resigned with Houston ;)

Ageroo
01-12-2011, 11:21 AM
Doesn't mean RSL won't trade him though. I thought Dero was a write off when he resigned with Houston ;)

Very true.....I would love to see him in TFC red...always been a fan of his style of play.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 11:29 AM
question is does he want to come here, from what ive always read he likes it out there alot

Ageroo
01-12-2011, 11:54 AM
question is does he want to come here, from what ive always read he likes it out there alot

I guess i'd like it to if I could have 9 wives........;) :D

Technorgasm
01-12-2011, 12:00 PM
epic boobs. . .epic SCHlooobs

MartinUtd
01-12-2011, 12:10 PM
;1198979']SSG: Leopard print and Hipster panty hose, I don't know I think someone just recently had a divorce and has plastered themselves across the world of Toronto in a desperate race to say I'm available. Just my 2 cents.:drinking:

lol...Just saw the SSG and came here to see you guys rip on her

Pachuco
01-12-2011, 12:18 PM
Very true.....I would love to see him in TFC red...always been a fan of his style of play.

Absolutely. Would love to see this kid at TFC. And playing with Ornoch (if that deal is true) then I think it would be a big advantage both for the future of the CMNT and for TFC.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 12:18 PM
I guess i'd like it to if I could have 9 wives........;) :D

HAHAHA
im picturing him in his own compound surrounded by dowdy women and children.
confused if its heaven or hell.

rocker
01-12-2011, 12:21 PM
I guess i'd like it to if I could have 9 wives........;) :D

that's why he needed the new big contract! can't support em on that measly salary he was making.

Phil
01-12-2011, 12:27 PM
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2011/01/percovich-brings-wealth-of-experience-to-fire-staff.html

It seems we now the mystery of where in the world is Percovich.

Chicago of course!

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 12:48 PM
I am shocked. :D

TFCDP
01-12-2011, 01:32 PM
SSG: I wonder if he knows that there is a surgery to reduce the size of his man titties.

rocker
01-12-2011, 01:39 PM
photo 6 -- I think I know that guy!

Dudebroguy
01-12-2011, 01:41 PM
Robbie Savage to Whitecaps?

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Transfer-news-Robbie-Savage-set-to-quit-Derby-for-Vancouver-Whitecaps-of-MLS-in-American-League-Exclusive-article671407.html

razor787
01-12-2011, 01:49 PM
Ssg is kinda cute... If you squint and hit your head with a frying pan.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 01:52 PM
dont forget the drinking of paint thinner.

Nuvinho
01-12-2011, 03:48 PM
JohnMolinaro (http://twitter.com/JohnMolinaro)

Basically, Nana said money is minor issue & that talks haven't stalled. Also said major issue is length: he wants short-term deal. More soon

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 03:52 PM
2 years? how short does he want?

Nuvinho
01-12-2011, 03:56 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/01/12/sp-nana-attakora-tfc.html



Nana Attakora's telephone has been ringing off the hook and his inbox has been flooded with emails the past two days.
And he doesn't understand why.
The future of the Toronto FC defender has been the subject of widespread rumours this week, with speculation that negotiations over a new deal have stalled, and that he's looking to leave the Canadian club after turning down a recent contract offer.
Attakora insists nothing could be further from the truth.
A 21-year-old native of Toronto, the young defender is set to enter the last year of his current contract with Toronto, which expires on Dec. 31. Attakora is a regular starter for the Reds and is considered one of Canadian soccer's brightest prospects, so it hardly comes as a surprise that TFC wants to re-sign him.
Attakora admits he turned down a contract offer made by the club last September, but he maintains that fans shouldn't misread that as him being disloyal to TFC.
All about timing

Attakora said the club tabled a contract offer when it was in a state of flux and without a full-time management team, shortly after general manager Mo Johnston and coach Preki were fired. That's the real reason why he turned it down.
"There was no coaching staff or manager in place when it was presented to me. Any young player with ambition should never sign a contract without knowing what direction a club is going in," Attakora told CBCSports.ca.
"I know I have a lot of developing to do as a player, [and] common sense says that in order to do so I need to be surrounded by good coaches and strong, consistent management. Toronto was in the middle of rebuilding its coaching staff, so I decided that it was in my best interests to wait until it was sorted out."
The TFC defender also said that money is playing little part in his decision-making.
Attakora earned the league minimum last season, $40,000 US. According to his agent, the team's offer included a substantial raise that would have seen him earn six figures.
So if money isn't a stumbling block, what is?
Although the rumour mill has been in full churn with suggestions that he's looking for a long-term deal, Attakora stated the exact opposite is true — that he turned down the club's offer because it was for four years, and not two.
"I'm in no rush to commit what could be the most valuable years of my playing career this easy," Attakora said. "My total focus has always remained with the club, every time I practise and play, and to me that's the most important thing that should ever matter to a young player."
Attakora's agent Marcos Serioux added: "Had it been for two years, he could have sat back and probably taken the offer. But to commit to four years, it's a lot for any player in that situation."
TFC officially unveiled Aron Winter as its new coach and technical director last week, while Paul Mariner was named director of player development. Earl Cochrane, who served as interim GM after Johnston was fired, was given a new title, director of team and player operations.
Serioux said the team made another contract offer before Christmas, but that he has not officially responded because he was waiting for the team's front office situation to be settled.
"Our thinking was to wait for the team to have new management in place because we didn't want to commit without knowing what direction they're going in.… Hopefully next week we'll have an idea of where Nana stands," Serioux stated.
Amicable dealings

Attakora said the negotiation process has been far from adversarial, calling it amicable. His agent is hopeful a deal can be worked out.
"Who knows, maybe the club might deem him surplus and maybe they want to bring in someone new. We think he's proven himself on the team and is a great player in the league and he would love to stay in Toronto," Serioux said.
The clock is ticking, though, because according to his agent the TFC defender is eligible to explore his options and sign with another club starting on July 1.
"The team understands in six months time he's free to sign wherever he wants. He can sign a pre-contract and TFC might not see anything in turn," Serioux said.
For his part, Attakora said he wants to stay in Toronto, downplaying suggestions he's looking to sign with a European club. "I love to hear [such talk]. Not because I think I'm ready to jump ship to [Europe]; because anyone who knows me knows I'm an honest guy, and being honest means you know your limitations," Attakora explained.
"I know my limitations and by no means am I ready for the top leagues at this moment in my career."
Attakora added: "I can't see myself playing for any other MLS team. It just wouldn't feel right. It wouldn't feel normal to me. I love the city and the fans."
Attakora has been with the club since its inaugural MLS season in 2007. He made his professional debut under former TFC coach John Carver during the 2008 campaign, but has blossomed into a regular starter and one of the Reds' most consistent players the past two seasons.
As a key member of TFC, Attakora understands his contract status is the hot topic of discussion amongst the Reds' loyal fan base. But he admits to feeling somewhat hurt that so many have interpreted his protracted contract dealings as an indication he's looking to leave.
"That's been the hardest part of this. I am coming to the end of my contract, and people are thinking I want to jump ship. It's nothing like that," the defender said.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/01/12/sp-nana-attakora-tfc.html#ixzz1ArBHTaZo

Yohan
01-12-2011, 04:10 PM
FFS. give him his two year deal. Nana is going to get his shot at Europe pretty darn soon anyways

rocker
01-12-2011, 04:11 PM
Attakora's agent is Adrian Serioux's bro and a former employee of TFC. Interesting.

Suds
01-12-2011, 04:11 PM
So if I'm reading this right, his contract runs through to Dec 31, 2011. TFC want to extend that to 2015 but Attakora prefers 2 years to 2013.

In 2013 Attakora turns 25. I can understand why he would not want to push this contract past that age. He's heading into his prime age as a defender and if he continues to improve and perform well he would be in line for higher pay and possibly a move to another league.

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 04:13 PM
Interesting, I was under the impression that his contract had run out on December 31, 2010 but apparently it runs to December 31, 2011?

Why all this talk about contract negotiations then? Shouldn't he wait until the end of the season? It's rare for players to negotiate before their contract ends. :D

JonO
01-12-2011, 04:21 PM
Why all this talk about contract negotiations then? Shouldn't he wait until the end of the season? It's rare for players to negotiate before their contract ends. :D C'mon Roogsy - I realize (or at least I hope) that is a little tongue-in-cheek but he's not asking to re-negotiate anything, the club is.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 04:32 PM
having read that article im not so worried, sounds like hes being reasonable, looking forward (and hoping) he will be here for the new season

johnmolinaro
01-12-2011, 04:34 PM
Interesting, I was under the impression that his contract had run out on December 31, 2010 but apparently it runs to December 31, 2011?

Why all this talk about contract negotiations then? Shouldn't he wait until the end of the season? It's rare for players to negotiate before their contract ends. :D

It's not rare at all, actually. It's quite common.

And there is the issue of July 1 - Nana can sign with another team starting on that day with the potential of TFC not getting anything for him in return.

John

johnmolinaro
01-12-2011, 04:35 PM
having read that article im not so worried, sounds like hes being reasonable, looking forward (and hoping) he will be here for the new season

Yes, that's the impression I received from talking with Nana and his agent.

John

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 04:39 PM
It's not rare at all, actually. It's quite common.


I am just being my usual douchebag self. I know you're right.

JonO
01-12-2011, 04:40 PM
It's not rare at all, actually. It's quite common.

And there is the issue of July 1 - Nana can sign with another team starting on that day with the potential of TFC not getting anything for him in return.

John
Roogsy was referencing the sentiment that has been repeatedly suggested by some that DeRo should honour his contract because he signed it. The difference, as I point out, is that for Nana the club is trying to renegotiate. For both DeRo and Nana though, both sides have to want to renegotiate...

johnmolinaro
01-12-2011, 04:40 PM
I am just being my usual douchebag self. I know you're right.

Well done, sir - you had me fooled!

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 04:43 PM
Roogsy was referencing the sentiment that has been repeatedly suggested by some that DeRo should honour his contract because he signed it. The difference, as I point out, is that for Nana the club is trying to renegotiate. For both DeRo and Nana though, both sides have to want to renegotiate...


There is always a "difference" in each situation JonO. You don't think TFC wants to keep Nana at 40k this year for cap purposes? Sure they would but Nana would take that as a disrespect and simply seek employment elsewhere this summer. That's his leverage. DeRo was trying to employ different leverage or create some of his own. That's business. The fundamental point is that mid-term contract renegotiations do happen and it shouldn't be some sort of earth-shattering event.

In the end, when there is a renegotiation it's because both sides want to. Sometimes, one side more than the other. In fact, not sometimes, almost always.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 04:49 PM
Much appreciated for the article John

JonO
01-12-2011, 04:50 PM
I'm not criticizing DeRo, I'm just pointing out that club is requesting contract renegotiation, not Nana. While it may be a technical difference, it is a big one.

And since we've already derailed, I also think that someone in the DeRo camp erred since, regardless of the facts, his situation is playing out poorly in the media.

johnmolinaro
01-12-2011, 04:52 PM
Much appreciated for the article John

I honestly feel sometimes that nobody is reading my stuff, so good to know some people are actually interested in what I write.

mastermixer
01-12-2011, 04:57 PM
Thanks for the write up John. Its good that Toronto has some writers that look to get out a factual article rather than get out a headline with no substance.

TFCRegina
01-12-2011, 05:00 PM
Interesting, I was under the impression that his contract had run out on December 31, 2010 but apparently it runs to December 31, 2011?

Why all this talk about contract negotiations then? Shouldn't he wait until the end of the season? It's rare for players to negotiate before their contract ends. :D

Fuckin rights. :D

Man, he's so greedy for wanting to re-negotiate his contract. Why doesn't he play out to the end of his contract like real, dedicated and loyal players do? :rolleyes:

TFCRegina
01-12-2011, 05:01 PM
It's not rare at all, actually. It's quite common.

And there is the issue of July 1 - Nana can sign with another team starting on that day with the potential of TFC not getting anything for him in return.

John

Please John,

SHARE THAT WITH THIS BOARD. They seem to think it was wrong for De Ro to want to re-negotiate his contract despite it not being expired.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 05:02 PM
I honestly feel sometimes that nobody is reading my stuff, so good to know some people are actually interested in what I write.

Oh we're reading alright, HAHA, not to worry about that, keep on top of stuff like this (transfers and the lot) the way you do and you shouldnt have any troubles


Thanks for the write up John. Its good that Toronto has some writers that look to get out a factual article rather than get out a headline with no substance.

yeah man, so tired of opinion pieces disguised as articles with "information", especially when they conflict with mine HAHA

Suds
01-12-2011, 05:04 PM
I honestly feel sometimes that nobody is reading my stuff, so good to know some people are actually interested in what I write.

who is this?











just kidding :D

Suds
01-12-2011, 05:06 PM
I honestly feel sometimes that nobody is reading my stuff, so good to know some people are actually interested in what I write.

But on a serious note. I'm liking the new set up on CBC web site and level of coverage soccer is getting.

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:10 PM
Please John,

SHARE THAT WITH THIS BOARD. They seem to think it was wrong for De Ro to want to re-negotiate his contract despite it not being expired.

Yeah when it's initiated by the player who is looking for the raise.

When it comes to sports and re-negotiation of contracts, 99% of the time it's the team that initiates it not the player.

An agent can approach a team to look for a raise but if the team says no, the player is out of luck.

Much like the right of player to say no and test free agency.

Beach_Red
01-12-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm not criticizing DeRo, I'm just pointing out that club is requesting contract renegotiation, not Nana. While it may be a technical difference, it is a big one.

And since we've already derailed, I also think that someone in the DeRo camp erred since, regardless of the facts, his situation is playing out poorly in the media.

It's very rare for a contract renegotiation that may pay a player more to play well in the media, they had to know that. That may speak to level of frustration that built up.

And when you say "both sides" have to request it, you mean actually request it, not just repeatedly say in the press that they're willing :D.

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:13 PM
What JonO said.

There's a big difference between the different contracts tactics.

JonO
01-12-2011, 05:13 PM
I didn't say request it, I said want it... so yeah - what you said :D

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 05:24 PM
Yeah when it's initiated by the player who is looking for the raise.

When it comes to sports and re-negotiation of contracts, 99% of the time it's the team that initiates it not the player.

An agent can approach a team to look for a raise but if the team says no, the player is out of luck.

Much like the right of player to say no and test free agency.

:rolleyes:

So it's only ok when the team wants to renegotiate (because it's in their best interest), not when players do (because players shouldn't be looking after their own best interests)?

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 05:26 PM
What JonO said.

There's a big difference between the different contracts tactics.

Tactics have nothing to do with the fundamental point that contracts can and are renegotiated midterm, period.

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:30 PM
Sports is not the business world.

Yes, contracts can be renegotiated at any point in sports as well, but when an agent approaches the club and the club say no, the player should honour his contract.

Much like when a club approaches a player and says we'd like to renegotiate your contract the player can say "no thanks I'll honour my contract and when it expires I'll test free agency (if it's available as an option)."

Difference.

Suds
01-12-2011, 05:30 PM
:rolleyes:

So it's only ok when the team wants to renegotiate (because it's in their best interest), not when players do (because players shouldn't be looking after their own best interests)?

No. But the team can still say no, we're not looking to renegotiate becuase they are fine with the current contract. Just like a player can say no if the team initiates a request to extend the contract.

TFCRegina
01-12-2011, 05:32 PM
Yeah when it's initiated by the player who is looking for the raise.

When it comes to sports and re-negotiation of contracts, 99% of the time it's the team that initiates it not the player.

An agent can approach a team to look for a raise but if the team says no, the player is out of luck.

Much like the right of player to say no and test free agency.

Because 99% of the time you're working in the back room for Sports teams everywhere.

Any other fake statistics you'd like to make up?

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 05:35 PM
Sports is not the business world.

A nice sentiment but completely incorrect.


Yes, contracts can be renegotiated at any point in sports as well, but when an agent approaches the club and the club say no, the player should honour his contract.

Has anyone ever said otherwise? People who raise this point should also point to any evidence of players failing to honour contracts.


Much like when a club approaches a player and says we'd like to renegotiate your contract the player can say "no thanks I'll honour my contract and when it expires I'll test free agency (if it's available as an option)."

Difference.

Weird. I see no difference. Can you summarize the difference. As far as I can tell you point is Party A can request a renegotiation and Party B can say yes or no. Substitute player or team with either party and you still have the same result. So where is the difference? And where exactly does tactics have anything to do with this?

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:36 PM
:rolleyes:

So it's only ok when the team wants to renegotiate (because it's in their best interest), not when players do (because players shouldn't be looking after their own best interests)?

That's not what I was getting at.

And yes there's a difference. It's all on how you respond to it.

Nana can say no thanks I'm not interesting in renegotiating. That's his leverage. And people wouldn't begrudge him if he wanted to test his options because he would have fulfilled the obligations of his contract.

DeRo already has a contract that for all intents and purposes the club is not interested in renegotiating. He has no leverage. Well, his management team is trying to parlay this loan stint into some form of leverage but the club still holds the hammer. If after his contract has been fulfilled then he could do whatever he wants.

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:37 PM
No. But the team can still say no, we're not looking to renegotiate becuase they are fine with the current contract. Just like a player can say no if the team initiates a request to extend the contract.

This.

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:40 PM
Because 99% of the time you're working in the back room for Sports teams everywhere.

Any other fake statistics you'd like to make up?

You're funny.

Those who know me know that I have to justify what I would do. But if I wanted to I could throw some names around.

The one thing I've always made clear is that DeRo's people know squat about PR. And PR is important when you're an athlete it's the difference between being universally loved to being despised.

The tactics DeRo's people have used has cost him money. Yeah, Mo might have screwed him over but he should also be mad at his own people for his own people have cost him money. Had a) they approached it differently and b) DeRo himself approached it differently, he would have got his money.

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 05:41 PM
No. But the team can still say no, we're not looking to renegotiate becuase they are fine with the current contract. Just like a player can say no if the team initiates a request to extend the contract.


Absolutely. In other words, each party can enforce the current contract or if both parties agree, the contract can be replaced with a new one. It happens all the time everywhere around us, including sports. It's pretty basic stuff no matter how anyone tries to obfuscate it with irrelevant facts.

TFCRegina
01-12-2011, 05:43 PM
You're funny.

Those who know me know that I have to justify what I would do. But if I wanted to I could throw some names around.

The one thing I've always made clear is that DeRo's people know squat about PR. And PR is important when you're an athlete it's the difference between being universally loved to being despised.

The tactics DeRo's people have used has cost him money. Yeah, Mo might have screwed him over but he should also be mad at his own people for his own people have cost him money. Had a) they approached it differently and b) DeRo himself approached it differently, he would have got his money.

So we can agree that 99% of the time you throw out random stats you're talking out of your ass and just trying to boost your argument regardless of whether you know what the facts are, Whoopee?

So we've gone from "It's Wrong because only Clubs re-negotiate contracts" to "It's wrong because the optics of it sucked."

Can you hear those wheels spin?

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 05:44 PM
You're funny.

Those who know me know that I have to justify what I would do. But if I wanted to I could throw some names around.

The one thing I've always made clear is that DeRo's people know squat about PR. And PR is important when you're an athlete it's the difference between being universally loved to being despised.

The tactics DeRo's people have used has cost him money. Yeah, Mo might have screwed him over but he should also be mad at his own people for his own people have cost him money. Had a) they approached it differently and b) DeRo himself approached it differently, he would have got his money.



100% agree about DeRo having cost himself money. DeRo in fact does not have PR people which I think might be part of the problem.

However, these are all side-issues to the main point people seem to want to deny which is that contracts can and are renegotiated mid-term. If people accept that, then the discussion can move on to issues surrounding it such as "has DeRo and his agent's tactics helped or hurt them?" That's a different issue altogether.

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:45 PM
A nice sentiment but completely incorrect.



Has anyone ever said otherwise? People who raise this point should also point to any evidence of players failing to honour contracts.



Weird. I see no difference. Can you summarize the difference. As far as I can tell you point is Party A can request a renegotiation and Party B can say yes or no. Substitute player or team with either party and you still have the same result. So where is the difference? And where exactly does tactics have anything to do with this?

I guess I should have clarified in terms of how much longer is left their respective contracts.

The club holds the leverage when a player has an existing contract. Especially in DeRo's case given that he has two years left.

Nana has an expiring contract and he has leverage, or perceived leverage, given his age and potential earnings down the road.

Now if DeRo's contract was expiring at the end of this year or next month, then he would have the club by the balls.

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 05:46 PM
That's not what I was getting at.

And yes there's a difference. It's all on how you respond to it.

Nana can say no thanks I'm not interesting in renegotiating. That's his leverage. And people wouldn't begrudge him if he wanted to test his options because he would have fulfilled the obligations of his contract.

DeRo already has a contract that for all intents and purposes the club is not interested in renegotiating. He has no leverage. Well, his management team is trying to parlay this loan stint into some form of leverage but the club still holds the hammer. If after his contract has been fulfilled then he could do whatever he wants.


You are talking about a difference in how either party reacts and responds. That does not change the fundamental point about the rights and practices between contract-holders.

Auzzy
01-12-2011, 05:49 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/story/2011/01/12/sp-nana-attakora-tfc.html

Rather than posting the complete article here, maybe we should click through to the CBC website to read & give the man his hits?

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:56 PM
100% agree about DeRo having cost himself money. DeRo in fact does not have PR people which I think might be part of the problem.

However, these are all side-issues to the main point people seem to want to deny which is that contracts can and are renegotiated mid-term. If people accept that, then the discussion can move on to issues surrounding it such as "has DeRo and his agent's tactics helped or hurt them?" That's a different issue altogether.

Yes, contracts can be renegotiated midterm - where did I deny that? - but in this case they are connected with the tactics.

My point is if you go through, say the last ten years, and pick a sport, how many times an athlete has been successful in getting his contract renegotiated mid-term - with a raise - when the athlete/agent has approached the club for renegotiation without the benefit of holding out for example?

The only time a team is amiable to that is when a player's contract is in it's last year and the team wants to lock up said player long term, much like TFC wants to do with Nana.

Now a player, if he isn't happy with his current contract, can hold out and face sanctions from a team, but that's a death blow to your outside earnings. You can try to force the team's hand.

So my point in terms of tactics/public perception you are better off if the club approaches you to renegotiate as opposed to trying to force the club to renegotiate.

Whoop
01-12-2011, 05:59 PM
So we can agree that 99% of the time you throw out random stats you're talking out of your ass and just trying to boost your argument regardless of whether you know what the facts are, Whoopee?

So we've gone from "It's Wrong because only Clubs re-negotiate contracts" to "It's wrong because the optics of it sucked."

Can you hear those wheels spin?

Maybe it's 98% of the time that the team initiates it.

johnmolinaro
01-12-2011, 06:04 PM
Please John,

SHARE THAT WITH THIS BOARD. They seem to think it was wrong for De Ro to want to re-negotiate his contract despite it not being expired.

Well, I think that's a bit of an appples to oranges comparison.

Dero is midway through his current deal and wants to renegotiate it while two years remain on it. It's not too often you'll see teams renegotiate a player's current deal.

With Nana, we're talking about negotiations for his next deal, not his current one. Players and teams often try to work things out on the next deal when the current one is in its last year.

I'm not making any moral judgement on Dero's situation - you guys decide for yourselves if he's right or wrong.

All I am saying is that I don't think the situations (Dero vs. Nana) are quite the same.

John

johnmolinaro
01-12-2011, 06:05 PM
Rather than posting the complete article here, maybe we should click through to the CBC website to read & give the man his hits?

HA! There you go! What he said! and follow me on twitter too:
http://twitter.com/#!/JohnMolinaro

Feel like a shameless shill...

Whoop
01-12-2011, 06:07 PM
Well, I think that's a bit of an appples to oranges comparison.

Dero is midway through his current deal and wants to renegotiate it while two years remain on it. It's not too often you'll see teams renegotiate a player's current deal.

With Nana, we're talking about negotiations for his next deal, not his current one. Players and teams often try to work things out on the next deal when the current one is in its last year.

I'm not making any moral judgement on Dero's situation - you guys decide for yourselves if he's right or wrong.

All I am saying is that I don't think the situations (Dero vs. Nana) are quite the same.

John

Thank you John.

You are much eloquent than I am. :D

Wull
01-12-2011, 06:10 PM
I honestly feel sometimes that nobody is reading my stuff, so good to know some people are actually interested in what I write.

If it's not up early in the day, it won't be in the thread to start with so adding it in here will get you looks and responses. we're always hungry for TFC news

Wull
01-12-2011, 06:14 PM
HA! There you go! What he said! and follow me on twitter too:
http://twitter.com/#!/JohnMolinaro (http://twitter.com/#%21/JohnMolinaro)

Feel like a shameless shill...

And yet it magically worked

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 06:37 PM
HA! There you go! What he said! and follow me on twitter too:
http://twitter.com/#!/JohnMolinaro

Feel like a shameless shill...

nah man, dont feel like a shill get money

johnmolinaro
01-12-2011, 06:54 PM
If it's not up early in the day, it won't be in the thread to start with so adding it in here will get you looks and responses. we're always hungry for TFC news

Yeah, I don't like posting my stories here myself - feel like like I would be intruding and stepping on toes. I always leave it to you guys to decide whether it should be posted or not.

JM

Damien
01-12-2011, 06:56 PM
Yeah, I don't like posting my stories here myself - feel like like I would be intruding and stepping on toes. I always leave it to you guys to decide whether it should be posted or not.

JM

Just post it, who cares! You're a signed up member!
:scarf:

Pigfynn
01-12-2011, 07:39 PM
Yeah, I don't like posting my stories here myself - feel like like I would be intruding and stepping on toes. I always leave it to you guys to decide whether it should be posted or not.

JM

Just post your links John.

Everybody else does and this is the thread to do it.

We need more news from people who actually make phone calls and talk to players, not less.

TFCRegina
01-12-2011, 08:18 PM
Well, I think that's a bit of an appples to oranges comparison.

Dero is midway through his current deal and wants to renegotiate it while two years remain on it. It's not too often you'll see teams renegotiate a player's current deal.

With Nana, we're talking about negotiations for his next deal, not his current one. Players and teams often try to work things out on the next deal when the current one is in its last year.

I'm not making any moral judgement on Dero's situation - you guys decide for yourselves if he's right or wrong.

All I am saying is that I don't think the situations (Dero vs. Nana) are quite the same.

John

And yet we see it all too often with TFC.

I believe it was no less than 2 years ago that Dichio, Brennan and Robinson all negotiated new deals while being under contract. And then Nana this year. And De Ro wants it, and he can't.

To say it's rare (as Whoopee suggested) is being willingly blind John.

TFCRegina
01-12-2011, 08:18 PM
Yeah, I don't like posting my stories here myself - feel like like I would be intruding and stepping on toes. I always leave it to you guys to decide whether it should be posted or not.

JM

bgnewf posts his blog here. I don't think highly of it. But i'm not against him doing it.

Beach_Red
01-12-2011, 08:24 PM
And yet we see it all too often with TFC.

I believe it was no less than 2 years ago that Dichio, Brennan and Robinson all negotiated new deals while being under contract. And then Nana this year. And De Ro wants it, and he can't.

To say it's rare (as Whoopee suggested) is being willingly blind John.

Yes, it looks like DeRo just missed out and now there's new management.

I would still like someone to take Anselmi to task for stating in public that the team would be willing to talk to DeRo. It wasn't his place to say that and it certainly contributed to the problem. I hope the new management doesn't get undermined like that.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-12-2011, 09:51 PM
Post em up John, im a lazy prick and youll be doing me a favor

Roogsy
01-12-2011, 09:51 PM
Yes, contracts can be renegotiated midterm - where did I deny that? - but in this case they are connected with the tactics.

My point is if you go through, say the last ten years, and pick a sport, how many times an athlete has been successful in getting his contract renegotiated mid-term - with a raise - when the athlete/agent has approached the club for renegotiation without the benefit of holding out for example?

The only time a team is amiable to that is when a player's contract is in it's last year and the team wants to lock up said player long term, much like TFC wants to do with Nana.

Now a player, if he isn't happy with his current contract, can hold out and face sanctions from a team, but that's a death blow to your outside earnings. You can try to force the team's hand.

So my point in terms of tactics/public perception you are better off if the club approaches you to renegotiate as opposed to trying to force the club to renegotiate.

I really wish you would stay on point instead of straying away from fundamental issue. My point has never been what is the "best way" to negotiate, it's whether a contract absolutely has to be seen through to it's very end. I am not particularly concerned about whether a team or player is "better off" doing things one way or another. I have admitted countless times that I believe DeRo's methods are hurting him instead of helping him. That's not the point. My problem is and continues to be with people who deny him the right to ask to renegotiate like somehow even asking it is some sort of mortal sin. If you don't deny that point about a player's right and the common industry practice of doing so, then the other points about how to go about doing so can be debated endlessly without any interest from me.


JMol....keep putting up your articles bro. I know you don't like it but in fact everyone around here craves it. Especially since we don't particularly trust what goes TFC tells us from official channels.

TFCRegina
01-12-2011, 10:33 PM
I really wish you would stay on point instead of straying away from fundamental issue. My point has never been what is the "best way" to negotiate, it's whether a contract absolutely has to be seen through to it's very end. I am not particularly concerned about whether a team or player is "better off" doing things one way or another. I have admitted countless times that I believe DeRo's methods are hurting him instead of helping him. That's not the point. My problem is and continues to be with people who deny him the right to ask to renegotiate like somehow even asking it is some sort of mortal sin. If you don't deny that point about a player's right and the common industry practice of doing so, then the other points about how to go about doing so can be debated endlessly without any interest from me.


JMol....keep putting up your articles bro. I know you don't like it but in fact everyone around here craves it. Especially since we don't particularly trust what goes TFC tells us from official channels.

Especially when no one raised a stink about certain players' contracts being negotiated down two years ago in order to free cap space. If De Ro had no right to ask for a pay increase, TFC had no right to ask players to take pay cuts.

J .
01-12-2011, 11:21 PM
JMol....keep putting up your articles bro. I know you don't like it but in fact everyone around here craves it. Especially since we don't particularly trust what goes TFC tells us from official channels.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/52/Kyle_Moar.jpg

Whoop
01-12-2011, 11:23 PM
Ugh...

I lost my post.

Anyway, Carl Robinson, Danny Dichio and Jim Brennan all got new deals once their contracts were on the verge of expiring, not with 2 years left.

As for the rest of what I was going to say, John illustrated it best already.

Teams can ask for player's to take pay cuts to rework the cap, but a player can say no. Much like the club appears to have said no to DeRo who's asked for a pay increase. And nowhere did I say he had no right to ask for a raise.

Beach_Red
01-12-2011, 11:48 PM
^ "appears to have said no." That's the issue, isn't it? Did the team say no? It doesn't really matter anymore and it's unlikely it'll happen again, but it is odd to see so much support here for a management that was routinely accused of lying and treating players poorly.

Thrillos
01-13-2011, 12:17 AM
Ugh...

I lost my post.

Anyway, Carl Robinson, Danny Dichio and Jim Brennan all got new deals once their contracts were on the verge of expiring, not with 2 years left.

As for the rest of what I was going to say, John illustrated it best already.

Teams can ask for player's to take pay cuts to rework the cap, but a player can say no. Much like the club appears to have said no to DeRo who's asked for a pay increase. And nowhere did I say he had no right to ask for a raise.

I wouldn't mind chiming in here...

You essentially just proved roogsy's point, no one jumped all over TFC management when they asked some of our hardest working players to take a pay cut, yet when our arguably hardest working player is asking for a raise its as if he pulled a Ron Burgandy and told Toronto to go fuck itself.

And in reality the main point is that his raise would actually come at a help to the cap, something that I don't understand more people are happy with. We get more cap space and instead of our hard earned money going into MLSE pockets its going to a guy who actually deserves it for all he has done to entertain us over the last two seasons.

Waggy
01-13-2011, 12:18 AM
I was wondering how the news thread got to 4 pages. I figured people were just going off on that dude in the Sun earlier. Should have known it'd be someone stirring up trouble. Roogsy, I got 2 words for you. C'mon maaaaan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaYm-NExLdc

TFCRegina
01-13-2011, 01:14 AM
I wouldn't mind chiming in here...

You essentially just proved roogsy's point, no one jumped all over TFC management when they asked some of our hardest working players to take a pay cut, yet when our arguably hardest working player is asking for a raise its as if he pulled a Ron Burgandy and told Toronto to go fuck itself.

And in reality the main point is that his raise would actually come at a help to the cap, something that I don't understand more people are happy with. We get more cap space and instead of our hard earned money going into MLSE pockets its going to a guy who actually deserves it for all he has done to entertain us over the last two seasons.

Just like to point out that that was the thrust of my argument. ;)

CretanBull
01-13-2011, 03:51 AM
Feel like a shameless shill...

Pimp away, it's welcomed :D

As much as TFC has helped to grow the soccer community in Toronto, we're still a fringe sport and have to support each other in our common interests.

Thrillos
01-13-2011, 08:47 AM
Just like to point out that that was the thrust of my argument. ;)

Sorry what I meant to say was that I was concurring with your concurred point of roogsy's