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denime
01-11-2011, 06:21 AM
Mornin'



Winter In Florida (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/winter-florida)


MLS Combine Continues (http://www.torontofc.ca/news/2011/01/mls-combine-continues)


Dobson on MLS: Combine-ing notes (http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/2011/01/10/dobson_combine/)



TFC, Ajax and "Total Football" (http://canadiansocceropinion.blogspot.com/2011/01/tfc-ajax-and-total-football.html)




SUNSHINE (http://www.torontosun.com/sunshinegirl/)

razor787
01-11-2011, 06:35 AM
Morning Denime

Stouffville_RPB
01-11-2011, 07:09 AM
morning d

[NBF]
01-11-2011, 07:19 AM
SSG: Very nice:drool:

TFC, Ajax, and Total Football:

Well nothing is going to be exactly like the 1974 Dutch National Team, "Total" Football IMO has been overused and misinterpreted in more than a few occassions to describe good passing teams.

I'm 100% sure that Aron Winter emphasized that the team would not be playing "Total" Football and that it would be playing its own style. If anywhere I think the background of "Total" Football will be emphasized by the new management group it will be in the TFC Academy where there is the ability to train developing talent to play beyond their most comfortable positions and play more closely as a team than in the first team where playing time and salaries might cause rifts in the lockeroom.

I hate to say this, but the author is right in the point he tries to make that we've been here before with MLSE and that we should not immidiately jump to conclusions until we see:

1. A complete TFC 2011 roster, prepared and ready to start the 2011 season in MLS.

2. A competitive TFC throughout the 2011 season, able to cope with crammed scheduled game dates, and able to deal with injuries.

3. Finally some level of success on the field at the end of the season, leading to a spot in the playoffs and hopefully another spot in the champions league.

Another, good point he makes is the fact that the MLS does try to maintain a good balance in the competition side of each team through such things as: 1. the salary cap, 2. the mls draft, 3. and the player roster restriction. These 3 things definitely ensure that the MLS is a competitive league, but what it means for TFC(or any other team) is that there will not be any player hoarding or dominating teams year after year in the MLS. It will be hard to maintain a solid team that makes the playoffs if we peak to soon financially and we have to drop contracts before they're do the following season. Therefore we will never be an Ajax or a Feyenoord, because we simply cannot maintain and identity and we will constantly have to revamp after reaching the MLS Cap ceiling. Thats why the academy is so important and im glad we have a reputable management group in Winter, de Klerk, and Mariner. This is the only time in TFC history where there is an obvious "looking towards the future" approach rather than a last minute decision based on job safety by the Director of Football operations.


Good read:D

keem-o-sabi
01-11-2011, 07:33 AM
Alrighty everyone I'm off to the NSCAA Convention in Baltimore. Any of you going down?

Here are today's coed girls 1 (http://coedmagazine.com/2010/12/20/miss-coed-jennifer-nesbit-25-pics/) and 2 (http://coedmagazine.com/2010/12/21/miss-coed-heather-nicole-dyre-56-pics/)

mastermixer
01-11-2011, 08:26 AM
Toronto FC’s new Head Coach and Technical Director Aron Winter will arrive in Florida later today along with Assistant Coach Bob de Klerk.



Toronto’s new Director of Player Development Paul Mariner has been in Florida since Friday along with Nick Dasovic, Jim Brennan, Danny Dichio, Jason Bent and Tim Regan.


I don't know about you guys.. but my confindence in this team hasnt been this high since we brought over DeRo a couple of years ago. Very excited to see what this team can put together. :scarf:

lips
01-11-2011, 08:29 AM
Mornin'

maninb
01-11-2011, 08:43 AM
I don't know about you guys.. but my confindence in this team hasnt been this high since we brought over DeRo a couple of years ago. Very excited to see what this team can put together. :scarf:

Agreed...I'm hoping that having this new "well known" mgmt team in place helps attract the interest of YOUNG players from over-seas, who may not yet be ready for top flight football but see TFC as a stepping stone to bigger things...If our Academy is turning out good young players and we're able to keep signing good older DPs, and keep our good "journeymen" players, like Cann, Gargan, Barrett, etc...I see no reason why we can't become a DOMINANT team in the MLS....It's optimistic for sure but I can see the roots taking shape...

Oldtimer
01-11-2011, 08:45 AM
^ It will take some time, though.

The pressure will be on to get results right away to quell the restlessness in the fanbase.

ManUtd4ever
01-11-2011, 08:57 AM
I don't know about you guys.. but my confindence in this team hasnt been this high since we brought over DeRo a couple of years ago. Very excited to see what this team can put together. :scarf:


Agreed...I'm hoping that having this new "well known" mgmt team in place helps attract the interest of YOUNG players from over-seas, who may not yet be ready for top flight football but see TFC as a stepping stone to bigger things...If our Academy is turning out good young players and we're able to keep signing good older DPs, and keep our good "journeymen" players, like Cann, Gargan, Barrett, etc...I see no reason why we can't become a DOMINANT team in the MLS....It's optimistic for sure but I can see the roots taking shape...


^ It will take some time, though.

The pressure will be on to get results right away to quell the restlessness in the fanbase.

The prospect of long term success is certainly at an all time high but I think our short term expectations need to be somewhat tempered during the transition period. Paul Mariner is the key to building a squad that might be able to compete for a playoff spot this season...

trane
01-11-2011, 09:44 AM
;1198004']SSG: Very nice:drool:

TFC, Ajax, and Total Football:

Well nothing is going to be exactly like the 1974 Dutch National Team, "Total" Football IMO has been overused and misinterpreted in more than a few occassions to describe good passing teams.

I'm 100% sure that Aron Winter emphasized that the team would not be playing "Total" Football and that it would be playing its own style. If anywhere I think the background of "Total" Football will be emphasized by the new management group it will be in the TFC Academy where there is the ability to train developing talent to play beyond their most comfortable positions and play more closely as a team than in the first team where playing time and salaries might cause rifts in the lockeroom.

I hate to say this, but the author is right in the point he tries to make that we've been here before with MLSE and that we should not immidiately jump to conclusions until we see:

1. A complete TFC 2011 roster, prepared and ready to start the 2011 season in MLS.

2. A competitive TFC throughout the 2011 season, able to cope with crammed scheduled game dates, and able to deal with injuries.

3. Finally some level of success on the field at the end of the season, leading to a spot in the playoffs and hopefully another spot in the champions league.

Another, good point he makes is the fact that the MLS does try to maintain a good balance in the competition side of each team through such things as: 1. the salary cap, 2. the mls draft, 3. and the player roster restriction. These 3 things definitely ensure that the MLS is a competitive league, but what it means for TFC(or any other team) is that there will not be any player hoarding or dominating teams year after year in the MLS. It will be hard to maintain a solid team that makes the playoffs if we peak to soon financially and we have to drop contracts before they're do the following season. Therefore we will never be an Ajax or a Feyenoord, because we simply cannot maintain and identity and we will constantly have to revamp after reaching the MLS Cap ceiling. Thats why the academy is so important and im glad we have a reputable management group in Winter, de Klerk, and Mariner. This is the only time in TFC history where there is an obvious "looking towards the future" approach rather than a last minute decision based on job safety by the Director of Football operations.


Good read:D


Realy, what we will not be as good as Ajax by the end of next season???? Wow, I cannot believe it. I am sorry but the article is simplistic and silly. All things are relative. Winter and Co are building the fundations of the club, it will take time.

Listen, I like defensive football, and I believe that the simplilest way to win, when you are limited as any team in the MLS is, is defensive systesm ( which does not mean 10 men behidn the ball and no tactics), but I am relieved that we are finaly putting a total system of play in place, and asystem of play that has proven effective. By the way we do not have to be Ajax to beal Columbus, we just have to be better organized, play harder and be more skilled then them, that does not take singing Kaka and Pato to do.

scooter
01-11-2011, 11:00 AM
mornin d

rocker
01-11-2011, 11:01 AM
SSG is overdressed

djking2
01-11-2011, 12:04 PM
I am sorry but the article is simplistic and silly

I'd disagree with you Trane. This is one of the first bits I've read since the announcement that makes sense and without being overly pessimistic attempts to look at the move critically. Most notably the fact that in The Netherlands, Spain and several other countries parity just doesn't exist which makes "total" domination of your opponent a realistic goal.

Everybody will have their own opinion though. I just thought simplistic and silly were rather harsh in this case

rocker
01-11-2011, 12:15 PM
;1198004']
I'm 100% sure that Aron Winter emphasized that the team would not be playing "Total" Football and that it would be playing its own style. I

yes, the author of the article, while showing interesting points about the style, obviously didn't watch the press conference -- nowhere did anybody say they wanted to play total football. Actually, numerous times they said they wanted to play a style suitable to the locals... even De Klerk commented on that point, saying they'd have their own style (Klinsmann confirmed that in the interview with Andi Petrillo). Winter did make the point about 3 strikers, but they all seemed -- to me -- to be very cautious and realistic about this notion of Total Football. I have a feeling it's a stereotype to them and they don't want to be caught up in it.

Nuvinho
01-11-2011, 12:23 PM
sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

I'm hearing TFC have offered Nana Attakora a new contract that he has so far declined. Oh boy... GD

ManUtd4ever
01-11-2011, 12:35 PM
sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

I'm hearing TFC have offered Nana Attakora a new contract that he has so far declined. Oh boy... GD

I won't worry about this just yet. I'm sure negotations will continue...

TFCRegina
01-11-2011, 12:40 PM
sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

I'm hearing TFC have offered Nana Attakora a new contract that he has so far declined. Oh boy... GD

Attakora is likely off to Europe then. Which means we have another major hole in the club. Sigh.

mastermixer
01-11-2011, 01:00 PM
Attakora is likely off to Europe then. Which means we have another major hole in the club. Sigh.

I don't think he's going anywhere... he knows he's an important part of TFC so he's obviously trying to squeeze every drop out of MLSE as he can.

Section 117
01-11-2011, 01:01 PM
Nana is not good enough for Europe at this point in his career, if his people are giving him proper advise (which if it Dero's management team I doubt it). Her should stay here for a couple of years become a dominant force in the MLS then go over to Europe when he is more polished as right now he needs a lot of work before he can cut it at a Championship level let alone a Premiership team.

My 2 cents

Yohan
01-11-2011, 01:02 PM
sportsnetsoccer (http://twitter.com/sportsnetsoccer)

I'm hearing TFC have offered Nana Attakora a new contract that he has so far declined. Oh boy... GD
i'm going to be so mad if we lose Nana to FC Ingoldstadt or some crappy European team

Roogsy
01-11-2011, 01:08 PM
Nana is not good enough for Europe at this point in his career, if his people are giving him proper advise (which if it Dero's management team I doubt it). Her should stay here for a couple of years become a dominant force in the MLS then go over to Europe when he is more polished as right now he needs a lot of work before he can cut it at a Championship level let alone a Premiership team.

My 2 cents


I think he's just angling for a richer contract in MLS. His eventual goal is Europe but it isn't the short-term goal.

Now...if TFC don't step up? Then we're looking at Nana in Europe at some 2nd division team.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-11-2011, 01:12 PM
Nana is not good enough for Europe at this point in his career, if his people are giving him proper advise (which if it Dero's management team I doubt it). Her should stay here for a couple of years become a dominant force in the MLS then go over to Europe when he is more polished as right now he needs a lot of work before he can cut it at a Championship level let alone a Premiership team.

My 2 cents

cosign on this, fingers crossed hes smart enough to figure that out.
I dont mind him asking for a raise tho, thats only fair, but he needs to be realistic about it too

Jeffro
01-11-2011, 01:48 PM
Attakora is likely off to Europe then. Which means we have another major hole in the club. Sigh.


Love the assumptions, maybe Nana is just smart enough to get a contract he's happy with before he signs it....

WestStandGeoff
01-11-2011, 02:04 PM
SSG is overdressed

+1

Girl seems to have a fantastic rack, but we don't get to see much of it. :(

boban
01-11-2011, 02:05 PM
SSG is overdressed
And over tattooed.

Jeffro
01-11-2011, 02:17 PM
And over tattooed.

this is like the new "Mornin' D"

Davenport
01-11-2011, 02:17 PM
And over tattooed.
and over here.....

SilverSamurai
01-11-2011, 02:46 PM
Nana is not good enough for Europe at this point in his career, if his people are giving him proper advise (which if it Dero's management team I doubt it). Her should stay here for a couple of years become a dominant force in the MLS then go over to Europe when he is more polished as right now he needs a lot of work before he can cut it at a Championship level let alone a Premiership team.

My 2 cents
+1.
Plus if he gets some more CCL experience it'll help him out big time too.
Also doesn't him getting capped by the CMNT help his cause with visa issues? Or am I confused here...???
How much longer is he under contract for?

werewolf
01-11-2011, 02:51 PM
i'm going to be so mad if we lose Nana to FC Ingoldstadt or some crappy European team

in a competitive match, I would put money on Ingolstadt before TFC...

Beach_Red
01-11-2011, 03:03 PM
Love the assumptions, maybe Nana is just smart enough to get a contract he's happy with before he signs it....


Yes, it looks like he and the team were waiting for the new management to be in place and then they'd start negotiating. Seems routine.

Waggy
01-11-2011, 03:10 PM
Love the assumptions, maybe Nana is just smart enough to get a contract he's happy with before he signs it....

I laughed


I'm not going to say TFC better fucking sign him, but unless someone as young and talented is replacing him then TFC better fucking sign him.

Ossington Mental Youth
01-11-2011, 03:53 PM
i dont think they will let him go by anymeans but i dont doubt dude is going to hold out for a better pay cheque than 30k

Pookie
01-11-2011, 04:14 PM
I rejected the first offer made on my house. I still sold it.

I imagine he is holding out for a number with 6 figures in it, starting with a 1.

Don't read too much into it. It is a player whose contract expired now taking the opportunity to negotiate his market worth. He's done his part in playing for the league minimum. It's now time to "show him some commitment." Nothing weird or unusual here.

What would be weird would be a player trying to rip up a contract that was only half way done.

:hide:

Yohan
01-11-2011, 04:17 PM
Nana is totally worth 150k-175k.

Pookie
01-11-2011, 04:21 PM
I was thinking in the low 100's based on fewer seasons under his belt.

rocker
01-11-2011, 04:25 PM
i could see an escalating contract from TFC's end... maybe 100K in season 1, increasing steadily towards season 4. Shows commitment but doesn't get foolish with giving 200K right away in a capped league to a guy who is still essentially a kid.

Pookie
01-11-2011, 04:40 PM
i could see an escalating contract from TFC's end... maybe 100K in season 1, increasing steadily towards season 4. Shows commitment but doesn't get foolish with giving 200K right away in a capped league to a guy who is still essentially a kid.

True.

Though only the MLS base salary counts against the cap. So, if Attakora were to negotiate a signing bonus and/or other bonuses, that would be great alternative to give him his value and find some cap wiggle room.

Plus the bonus is guaranteed whereas I'm not sure his contract would be.

The CBA provided that all players over 24 with at least 3 years of MLS experience would have guaranteed contracts. Nana is just 21 and has only 2 full MLS seasons.

jloome
01-11-2011, 06:20 PM
I'd disagree with you Trane. This is one of the first bits I've read since the announcement that makes sense and without being overly pessimistic attempts to look at the move critically. Most notably the fact that in The Netherlands, Spain and several other countries parity just doesn't exist which makes "total" domination of your opponent a realistic goal.

Everybody will have their own opinion though. I just thought simplistic and silly were rather harsh in this case

I'd say it's a bit simplistic. The 'total' in total football refers to positional awareness, not domination. It's based on the concept of using the available space in your opponent's existing shape, then having players adrioitly swap positions to take advantage of that without leaving an exploitable hole in their own defensive shape on a counter.

So the respective "domination" of those teams isn't really at issue. The relative fluidity that sometimes results from total football may be more evident in those cases, but it's not the be-and-end-all of the system: exploiting your opponent's weakness in tactical shape is the desired end result.

In other words, you can play total football effectively without dominating possession and adapt it to a scrappy, MLS style game, because it's more about positional sense and movement than short possession.

Beach_Red
01-11-2011, 06:42 PM
I rejected the first offer made on my house. I still sold it.

I imagine he is holding out for a number with 6 figures in it, starting with a 1.

Don't read too much into it. It is a player whose contract expired now taking the opportunity to negotiate his market worth. He's done his part in playing for the league minimum. It's now time to "show him some commitment." Nothing weird or unusual here.

What would be weird would be a player trying to rip up a contract that was only half way done.

:hide:


As long as everyone involved understands the difference between "guaranteed" and "option" years in the contract :D.

ensco
01-11-2011, 06:49 PM
Given the number of better MLS players that eff off to play in Lappland or wherever, I wouldn't assume that Nana is just bluffing.

bigtfcfan
01-11-2011, 06:51 PM
Nana is NOT ready for Europe. Belting the ball down the field every time he gets it may be okay for MLS but won't suffice in any european league.

Beach_Red
01-11-2011, 07:11 PM
Given the number of better MLS players that eff off to play in Lappland or wherever, I wouldn't assume that Nana is just bluffing.

True enough. But it's a good sign he waited until the new coaches were in place and is now negotiating. What are the chances he would have re-signed for more Prekiball and a front office that couldn't arrange a simple trial for its captain?

TFC_Chris
01-11-2011, 07:33 PM
Not good news already.

TFC’s Nicholas Lindsay done for the year (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/919738--tfc-s-nicholas-lindsay-done-for-the-year)

jloome
01-11-2011, 07:54 PM
Nana is NOT ready for Europe. Belting the ball down the field every time he gets it may be okay for MLS but won't suffice in any european league.

Backline distribution is horribly overrated and he could easily thrive in Europe. They didn't say 'Premiership.' the Danish league's base salary is about twice the average MLS salary and Nana makes about $44,000 a year, or something ridiculous like that.

He's a solid positional defender, great marker, decent tackler, average-to-poor in air, average-to-poor in distribution. But "great marker" alone can earn you a bigger paycheque over there.

TFCRegina
01-11-2011, 07:56 PM
Nana is NOT ready for Europe. Belting the ball down the field every time he gets it may be okay for MLS but won't suffice in any european league.

Never watched lower division England or top division Scottish football eh?

Darlofletch
01-11-2011, 08:00 PM
lindsay was snowmobiling!

re nana, can he be made a homegrown player so his contract doesn't count to the cap, or not?

TFCin110
01-12-2011, 09:56 AM
Kelly: Canadian world junior fans criticized in Buffalo


http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/919250--kelly-canadian-world-junior-fans-criticized-in-buffalo

"There might have been a drunken incident or six. That’s possible. Since the end zone seats at a Bills home game generally resemble a Hieronymous Bosch painting, we thought you embraced that sort of high-spirited fun. That was foolish of us."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Were we not saying that when he wrote that article about TFC fans???

nobodybeatsthewiz
01-12-2011, 10:01 AM
Since the end zone seats at a Bills home game generally resemble a Hieronymous Bosch painting

he's being far too generous and humane in saying that. personally id say buffalonians in the endzone at ralph wilson resemble bottom-of-the-food-chain, diseased mammals feverishly scrapping through garbage at a landfill.

Parkdale
01-12-2011, 10:02 AM
this is old, and not TFC / MLS related.

it's been merged with the news thread from the day it came out

CoachGT
01-12-2011, 10:49 AM
Alrighty everyone I'm off to the NSCAA Convention in Baltimore. Any of you going down?


I'd love to be there but work kinda gets in the way.

keem-o-sabi
01-12-2011, 10:56 AM
Since the end zone seats at a Bills home game generally resemble a Hieronymous Bosch painting

he's being far too generous and humane in saying that. personally id say buffalonians in the endzone at ralph wilson resemble bottom-of-the-food-chain, diseased mammals feverishly scrapping through garbage at a landfill.

I'd say before you start in on the Buffalonian's, the canucks make up something like 40% of the fanbase of the bills....

keem-o-sabi
01-12-2011, 10:57 AM
I'd love to be there but work kinda gets in the way.

Yeah, sucks that this is work for me. haha

TFCin110
01-12-2011, 05:16 PM
this is old, and not TFC / MLS related.

it's been merged with the news thread from the day it came out

Ok, well as long as its merged with news from yesteday I am sure it will be seen. :rolleyes:

It is TFC related in that this guy has been the TFC supporter anti-body and now he had contradicted himself...