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View Full Version : Can our FO learn from D.C. United? Supporter treatment...



FluSH
06-29-2008, 12:36 PM
From previous experience at RFK, and from watching the DC vs LA Game this is what I see:

1. They allow 1-2 supporters to organize flags / tifo / choreos on the pitch during the game!!! These dudes are running around getting the set-ups ready.

2. They allow the SG's a heck of alot more time to set-up their rail banners. Last time, we were stopped by some guy in a suit named "Tyler" with 4-5 cops with him for approx 10mins before we could bring "The Fortress" banner inside.

3. They allow the supporters to ignite their own smoke bombs!! (I believe this is done by the dudes who also set-up the flags on the pitch)

4. They have given the supporters full control of their ticket seating in their area! That's right they don't have to deal with scalper seats in the South end.

I can see why RFK is "Home of the 12th man" We should be jealous... anything more to add DC supporters?

Roogsy
06-29-2008, 12:38 PM
#4 is the biggest on my list.

#3 would be really nice.

ilikemusic
06-29-2008, 12:39 PM
Of coure our FO could. They real question is will they.

Probably not.

Mrs. Workie
06-29-2008, 12:40 PM
From previous experience at RFK, and from watching the DC vs LA Game this is what I see:

1. They allow 1-2 supporters to organize flags / tifo / choreos on the pitch during the game!!! These dudes are running around getting the set-ups ready.

2. They allow the SG's a heck of alot more time to set-up their rail banners. Last time, we were stopped by some guy in a suit named "Tyler" with 4-5 cops with him for approx 10mins before we could bring "The Fortress" banner inside.

3. They allow the supporters to ignite their own smoke bombs!! (I believe this is done by the dudes who also set-up the flags on the pitch)

4. They have given the supporters full control of their ticket seating in their area! That's right they don't have to deal with scalper seats in the South end.

I can see why RFK is "Home of the 12th man" We should be jealous... anything more to add DC supporters?


Yes, in so many ways, especially #4

ilikemusic
06-29-2008, 12:41 PM
Until they feel the need to do those things to sell tickets nothing will change.

adampz
06-29-2008, 12:44 PM
In my opinion, we really can learn from DC supporters, i was just thinking the same thing flush, look at all the flags and banners they have, also im very fond of the smoke bombs. I think the club has to let the supporter groups take control because they dont have the fan support from familys and people who just come to watch the game. Once the casual fans dont make as big of a presence at BMO, TFC is going to have to give the supporter groups more leeway. For all of you that have seen football factories - the balkans. Look at what happened to Dinamo Zagreb, most of their revenues comes from their firm, so the firm has a vast amount of power compared to other firms through out europe.

Roogsy
06-29-2008, 12:47 PM
Too much Football Factories for you Adam...that will never happen here and therefore we will never have that kind of power. It should never be that way anyways. Who wants a stadium filled only at one end?

But there CAN be a good compromise to make sure the atmosphere is the best in the league. At the moment...I don't think we can say it is.

If DC United had a stadium like ours...not only would they fill it like we do, but it would be clear the atmosphere is the best in the league. They had entire sections of THOUSANDS that were involved. We have a south stand where a few hundred (IF THAT!) create the atmosphere for the entire stands. And the feeling I get is that there is beginning to be a little resentment. Some are growing tired of carrying the whole section while others stand with their arms crossed.

Torcida
06-29-2008, 12:47 PM
The best part about DCU is that you can have flag poles anywhere in the stadium but in BMO it's restricted to 15% of supporters, then they use the footage of those 15% to sell all-star game tickets etc.

werewolf
06-29-2008, 12:51 PM
as long as the stadium keeps selling out with rising ticket prices, and beer keeps getting sold, why would the FO want to do this?

FluSH
06-29-2008, 12:53 PM
So the question is how to tackle #4 with our high number of Season Ticket Holders?

Well...

If hypothetically speaking I was in the family section screaming, wavign a flag, and standing up for the full game would I not get kicked out?

Why is it that we cannot do the same? If we see a family in the South End, or a group of scalped tickets.. why can we not complain and get them kicked out?

Wasn't 112 supposed to be completely reserved for RPB's when we first started this? Do we not have the right to know who is sitting in our section... and why they bought tickets there if they are not supporters but rather scalpers?

What will it take for us to take control of the our sections? More altercations with scalpers outside BMO Field??!

FluSH
06-29-2008, 12:53 PM
as long as the stadium keeps selling out with rising ticket prices, and beer keeps getting sold, why would the FO want to do this?

So in other words... they don;t give a shit about us supporters.

olegunnar
06-29-2008, 12:54 PM
What can the supporters groups learn from the DCU supporters groups?

I think it's a vaild question to ask. Sure our FO isn't as accomadating, but that doesn't absolve us as supporters of all the responsibility.

exhibit A...DC has a capo on a podium. let's see if that would fly with supporters here. doubt it.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 12:57 PM
What can the supporters groups learn from the DCU supporters groups?

I think it's a vaild question to ask. Sure our FO isn't as accomadating, but that doesn't absolve us as supporters of all the responsibility.

exhibit A...DC has a capo on a podium. let's see if that would fly with supporters here. doubt it.

...and why do you say that? where would the podium go exactly? Have you not been to an away game where we have only ONE capo?

DC supporters also have a fence between their supporter groups... so it has nothign to do with carebear unison.

RedRum
06-29-2008, 12:59 PM
MLSE is just too stupid to do this. I've noticed a small but steady decline in vocal support/atmosphere over time. When the supporters stop supporting with the tenacity we have shown, it will only be a matter time until TFC will draw 10k a game. This is not an "egotystical" stance, just the plain and simple truth.

MLSE can ensure the long-term health of the francise by simply negotiating with the city to build a north stand, then move all the supporters groups over there with DC type rules.

Can you imagine how loud we would be if every RPB and u-sector member could migrate to one place and stand with the NEE to our right?

Like I said though they are too dumb and will run the team into the ground by not accomodating the supporters the way they should.

olegunnar
06-29-2008, 01:00 PM
...and why do you say that? where would the podium go exactly? Have you not been to an away game where we have only ONE capo?

DC supporters also have a fence between their supporter groups... so it has nothign to do with carebear unison.

Because I think "we" are in a better position to ask for things from the FO when "we" have our shit together.
While we're still bickering and basically a bunch disjointed and unorganized drunks...we're not going to get anything.

Organization and unity would better our "bargaining" pisition infinately.
Now anytime something happens all that's needed is a mlsintoronto post and half the group bows down and gives up

FluSH
06-29-2008, 01:03 PM
MLSE is just too stupid to do this. I've noticed a small but steady decline in vocal support/atmosphere over time. When the supporters stop supporting with the tenacity we have shown, it will only be a matter time until TFC will draw 10k a game. This is not an "egotystical" stance, just the plain and simple truth.

MLSE can ensure the long-term health of the francise by simply negotiating with the city to build a north stand, then move all the supporters groups over there with DC type rules.

Can you imagine how loud we would be if every RPB and u-sector member could migrate to one place and stand with the NEE to our right?

Like I said though they are too dumb and will run the team into the ground by not accomodating the supporters the way they should.

You know what... I agree with you 100% Migration to the North would be but a dream come true as long as we had FULL control of our seating... and we knew and allowed who was there.

This is why I love away games sooo much... We have control of who is with us... and 99% it is supporters.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 01:04 PM
Because I think "we" are in a better position to ask for things from the FO when "we" have our shit together.
While we're still bickering and basically a bunch disjointed and unorganized drunks...we're not going to get anything.

Organization and unity would better our "bargaining" pisition infinately.
Now anytime something happens all that's needed is a mlsintoronto post and half the group bows down and gives up

What do you mean by "we" have our shit together?!?! This is as vague as anyone can get?

kelzag
06-29-2008, 01:07 PM
So the question is how to tackle #4 with our high number of Season Ticket Holders?

Well...

If hypothetically speaking I was in the family section screaming, wavign a flag, and standing up for the full game would I not get kicked out?

Why is it that we cannot do the same? If we see a family in the South End, or a group of scalped tickets.. why can we not complain and get them kicked out?



Yes! Yes! Yes! You are 100% correct FluSH. I can't tell you the number of times we've had altercations in 107 because we try to wake the dead by singing/ chanting, or if (God forbid) we try to stand. My tickets are the 2nd most expensive and I'd give them up in a heartbeat to be in a supporters section.

BC101
06-29-2008, 01:09 PM
So in other words... they don;t give a shit about us supporters.

LOL i think you should not expect anything else from Werewolf he IS dating one of the BMO staff ofcourse he'd defend their position LOL.

olegunnar
06-29-2008, 01:10 PM
What do you mean by "we" have our shit together?!?! This is as vague as anyone can get?

Things like timed chants..do them or not
Capo ( i know there's a capo on road trips but that's irrelevant, we're talking about BMO games)...there's a big..dont' boss me crowd here
Drinking...there's a lot of people that get too drunk and are useless supporters and there's also the crowd that think's drinking and eating happen after the match.
Drumming (when and by whom)...there's people that think it's not necessary, there's people that critic it, there's people that love it.

All issues to which there isn't 100% support.

If the group can't get it's own house in order why would the FO give us control of part of theirs.

That's what I mean.

I'm not saying your points aren't valid, I think they are. I'm saying there's a better chance of success if we can get on the same page. We'd be more powerful and influential.

werewolf
06-29-2008, 01:11 PM
defend?!?! :lol: I was saying exactly that, why would they give up control to us? What incentive is there to give us more power when they sell-out the stadium and make a bank off concessions?

rocker
06-29-2008, 01:13 PM
have you guys asked TFC directly about #4?
obviously you can't do this with current season ticket holders. It would only work as season tickets become available, which is currently unlikely (how many were available at the reorganization last year?). It's not like you can take season tickets from current holders, but maybe over 5 years you could slowly change it.
I mean, there might be guys in 112-113 who are not the greatest supporters, but are not RPB card carrying members, and who you'll never get the season tickets from.

BC101
06-29-2008, 01:19 PM
defend?!?! :lol: I was saying exactly that, why would they give up control to us? What incentive is there to give us more power when they sell-out the stadium and make a bank off concessions?

Because if they dont' the famous TFC Atmosphere will die.. and if the team continues on the downward spiral the numbers will start dropping. Just letting us have control of the south end will not be a big deal they'll still get their beer and food sales and the scalpers can just sell their seats for other areas of the stadium.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 01:23 PM
With all do respect gunner here is my response:


Things like timed chants..do them or not
-We had one timed chant last year and it worked great... trying new things here and there are nothing to worry about, and certainly not something we can learn from anyone else (i.e. DC supporters)


Capo ( i know there's a capo on road trips but that's irrelevant, we're talking about BMO games)...there's a big..dont' boss me crowd here
The big don't boss me crowd is only online and the reason why I brought the "away games" is because it shows that during game day we drop our differances... and when I say we, I mean the SG's. It's the non-supporters or the people who instigate the supporters who are the problem (didn't Usec have a problem with the top of 113 throwing pennies at them?) and this is why I say we need full control of our sections... and we can't learn that from DC supporters.


Drinking...there's a lot of people that get too drunk and are useless supporters and there's also the crowd that think's drinking and eating happen after the match.
Once agian #4 will resolve this.


Drumming (when and by whom)...there's people that think it's not necessary, there's people that critic it, there's people that love it.
This is hardly an issue... more like a preference for some... we are talking about drumming here???? I mean to say that we need to get our shit together and include drumming as part of getting our shit together before we approach our FO is a bit off the wall.


All issues to which there isn't 100% support.
again, this is why we have a democracy here... and go to polls or votes on issues... However a concensus accross the board is only ideological... the only concensus that exists is that we are all for the team... and that's what matters. This is why I mentioned that DC supporters have a FENCE between each other... I guess if we learn from them we will see a FENCE between 112 / 113

FluSH
06-29-2008, 01:25 PM
have you guys asked TFC directly about #4?
obviously you can't do this with current season ticket holders. It would only work as season tickets become available, which is currently unlikely (how many were available at the reorganization last year?). It's not like you can take season tickets from current holders, but maybe over 5 years you could slowly change it.
I mean, there might be guys in 112-113 who are not the greatest supporters, but are not RPB card carrying members, and who you'll never get the season tickets from.

We don't have 5 years... my question still stands. I am sure if you were a season ticket holder in the family section and you acted like a supporter you would be kicked out... can we not do the same? Besides I was under the impression that TFC FO promised 112 to us... why are there scalper seats in 112 then?!

Mikey
06-29-2008, 01:27 PM
I think the club has to let the supporter groups take control because they dont have the fan support from familys and people who just come to watch the game. Once the casual fans dont make as big of a presence at BMO, TFC is going to have to give the supporter groups more leeway. Look what happened to Dinamo Zagreb, most of their revenues comes from their firm, so the firm has a vast amount of power compared to other firms through out europe.


MLSE could announce an "official TFC supporters club" anytime they want. They have 16,000 season ticket members that they can include a supporters club membership with straight away.

Discussions with supporters groups would look very different if the main vote on issues was with the official supporters group, not split between infighting small supporters groups. Not saying it will happen at the end of this season or anything... it's just something I've seen happen at another footie club.

Talk of controlling who comes into a section, especially if that "non-desirable" supporter is also a STH may be a bit naive.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 01:31 PM
Also to emphasize my statement that we don't have 5 years...

Have many supporters will be moving into different life stages in 5 years? marriage? kids? New Jobs? Moving? Slowly it is happening... We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections... and we can only do that if WE have control of our tickets.

I've been to DC websites where they talk about where are they now...? their hardcore supporters? or memoreable members from the past? If over time we lose people in the South End to life stages it will be a big blow for us if we don't have control or our section.

BC101
06-29-2008, 01:35 PM
Also to emphasize my statement that we don't have 5 years...

Have many supporters will be moving into different life stages in 5 years? marriage? kids? New Jobs? Moving? Slowly it is happening... We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections... and we can only do that if WE have control of our tickets.

I've been to DC websites where they talk about where are they now...? their hardcore supporters? or memoreable members from the past? If over time we lose people in the South End to life stages it will be a big blow for us if we don't have control or our section.

AMEN BROTHER!

rocker
06-29-2008, 02:37 PM
Also to emphasize my statement that we don't have 5 years...

Have many supporters will be moving into different life stages in 5 years? marriage? kids? New Jobs? Moving? Slowly it is happening... We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections... and we can only do that if WE have control of our tickets.

I've been to DC websites where they talk about where are they now...? their hardcore supporters? or memoreable members from the past? If over time we lose people in the South End to life stages it will be a big blow for us if we don't have control or our section.

I just don't understand what "control" means in real practical terms.

Are current holders who are having kids and new jobs giving up their season's tickets? Who are they giving them up to?

My comment about 5 years is that I don't see "undesirable" fans giving up control of their season tickets to a group. Certainly RPBs can already give their tickets to their friends if they want to continue things. If there's some soccer mom who wants to hold on to her seats, no group is gonna be allowed to come and take them away from her.

the cat is out of the bag -- if this plan had been put in place from day 1 of the franchise, you'd have an effective plan. In the future, perhaps the club can identify "empty" seats and cede them to the group, but that'll take 5 years because I don't see people giving up control at this late date.
You can't just call up every season ticketholder in the south end and say "sorry guys, we're taking all your seats and distributing them according to the Red Patch Boys dictates."
Ceding control to the RPB is a good idea but it's too late to make a massive difference.....

Roogsy
06-29-2008, 02:40 PM
Also to emphasize my statement that we don't have 5 years...

Have many supporters will be moving into different life stages in 5 years? marriage? kids? New Jobs? Moving? Slowly it is happening... We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections... and we can only do that if WE have control of our tickets.

I've been to DC websites where they talk about where are they now...? their hardcore supporters? or memoreable members from the past? If over time we lose people in the South End to life stages it will be a big blow for us if we don't have control or our section.

Planning on quitting in 5 years Flushie? LOL!

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 02:45 PM
We need to keep the blood of new supporters flowing into the right sections...



And we do this by asking people not to bring their kids into the supporters sections, and alienating families.


good plan.

MrHawk
06-29-2008, 02:46 PM
the balkans. Look at what happened to Dinamo Zagreb, most of their revenues comes from their firm, so the firm has a vast amount of power compared to other firms through out europe.

The club has to let the BBB or Torcida do whatever they want. Without them, the games would have maybe 200-500 people per game.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 02:48 PM
The next generation of supporters, or the 'new blood' ARE the kids, and they're going to be better supporters than we are, because they are going to grow up with the team, they will know the rules of the game, and their heroes will be guys like Dichio, Jimmy B, Rohan Ricketts and so on.

mighty_torontofc_2008
06-29-2008, 03:01 PM
MLSE is just too stupid to do this. I've noticed a small but steady decline in vocal support/atmosphere over time. When the supporters stop supporting with the tenacity we have shown, it will only be a matter time until TFC will draw 10k a game. This is not an "egotystical" stance, just the plain and simple truth.

MLSE can ensure the long-term health of the francise by simply negotiating with the city to build a north stand, then move all the supporters groups over there with DC type rules.

Can you imagine how loud we would be if every RPB and u-sector member could migrate to one place and stand with the NEE to our right?

Like I said though they are too dumb and will run the team into the ground by not accomodating the supporters the way they should.


the decline in the singing/chanting has more to do with 3-4 songs/chants going on at the same time....massive confussion and must just give up,
get some direction and this should return to normal.

Dredg_XI
06-29-2008, 03:14 PM
We don't have 5 years... my question still stands. I am sure if you were a season ticket holder in the family section and you acted like a supporter you would be kicked out... can we not do the same? Besides I was under the impression that TFC FO promised 112 to us... why are there scalper seats in 112 then?!

Maybe people in 112 are selling their tickets...?

I'm a season ticket holder in 112, but I'm too busy to attend more than a couple games this season, so I sold my tickets. I still own the rights though.

Roogsy
06-29-2008, 03:17 PM
As long as you sell them to RPBs I dont think it matters.

Now if you are selling to non-RPBs...then I think people would have a problem.

Mrs. Workie
06-29-2008, 04:07 PM
The next generation of supporters, or the 'new blood' ARE the kids, and they're going to be better supporters than we are, because they are going to grow up with the team, they will know the rules of the game, and their heroes will be guys like Dichio, Jimmy B, Rohan Ricketts and so on.

Our children will be brought up in 112, we really wouldn't have it any other way.

And by control over 112- what I would like to see is only Card Carrying RPB's have access to the tickets.

You have a responsibility when you stand in 112- if you're not going to accept that, then I'm sorry, but you can leave.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 04:08 PM
As long as you sell them to RPBs I dont think it matters.

Now if you are selling to non-RPBs...then I think people would have a problem.

Why? Who the fuck are you to tell me who I can give my tickets to?

Just asking.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 04:10 PM
Our children will be brought up in 112, we really wouldn't have it any other way.

And by control over 112- what I would like to see is only Card Carrying RPB's have access to the tickets.

You have a responsibility when you stand in 112- if you're not going to accept that, then I'm sorry, but you can leave.

I dont carry a card, Mel, and neither do the people I bring to matches, and I've owned those seats since before you knew what the letters RPB stood for.

You are saying that the price of a ticket should be whatever MLSE sets, plus $25 to a third party.

Sorry, but no.

Captain Croatia
06-29-2008, 04:14 PM
The points on the first post are the only things missing from BMO, and we still have a better atmosphere. Imagine what it would be like if we could do all these things!

I find # 3 :) and #4 to be the most important on the list, and i think they are the two points that would benefit the atmosphere most.

London
06-29-2008, 04:18 PM
i volunteer to be one of the TFC giant flags if we can get them!!!!

I have a resume!!!!
just watch the charleston RPB vid of my lap of the stadium after our lone goal of the tounement was scored!!

Cashcleaner
06-29-2008, 04:19 PM
What I would really like to see is plastic micro-sheds at the front of our sections where we can store all our gameday equipment.

http://a116.g.akamai.net/7/116/8068/infinite/www.canadiantire.ca/media/images/products/images/GardenPatio/Sheds/0600220_450_CC_v1_m56577569830662931.jpg

werewolf
06-29-2008, 04:26 PM
You are saying that the price of a ticket should be whatever MLSE sets, plus $25 to a third party.

Sorry, but no.


That is understandable you feel that way, but this thread was prompted from watching a DC United game, who have it that way, and today made our support from the last home game look/sound like a Colorado Rapids home game.

London
06-29-2008, 04:28 PM
how bout moving the supporters section into the whole east stand!!!!!

that would look great!!!!

Mrs. Workie
06-29-2008, 04:37 PM
I dont carry a card, Mel, and neither do the people I bring to matches, and I've owned those seats since before you knew what the letters RPB stood for.


Ian, please don't condescend me. I was well aware of what the letters RPB stood for long before I was a member.

I stated what I'd like to see. Realistically, I know that pretty much won't happen. If it was, it had to happen right from the start.

The statement Travis made is true. I know a lot of us would like to see this happen.

Bars92
06-29-2008, 04:47 PM
how bout moving the supporters section into the whole east stand!!!!!

that would look great!!!!

Thats the advantage of DC. It would never work in Toronto.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 04:56 PM
That is understandable you feel that way, but this thread was prompted from watching a DC United game, who have it that way, and today made our support from the last home game look/sound like a Colorado Rapids home game.

Well Im sad that you feel you can come take my ticket and hand it to a buddy.

You can't.

simple.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 04:58 PM
Ian, please don't condescend me. I was well aware of what the letters RPB stood for long before I was a member.

I stated what I'd like to see. Realistically, I know that pretty much won't happen. If it was, it had to happen right from the start.

The statement Travis made is true. I know a lot of us would like to see this happen.

OK I'll rephrase.

I've owned these seats since before I knew what the letters RPB stood for, and also since before the RPB knew what IT stood for.

No offence was intended,

Mrs. Workie
06-29-2008, 05:00 PM
^^^

It's all good. :)

I know exactly what you mean. I wouldn't want to be one of the people told to leave. I think though, in order to fix the "problems" we're having in the south end, we as RPBs need to have total control over the section.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 05:05 PM
Section 112 as a seperate entity, made up of STH owners, minus the scalpers, yes.

The RPB and all it's worldly members, who have equal say despite never actually attending a match, no.

Mrs. Workie
06-29-2008, 05:06 PM
Should tickets not be accessible to those members who WANT to be there?

I know quite a few people that would give up their tickets elsewhere to be in 112. Should we not do what we can to get them there, seeing as 112 is "home to the RPB's"?

flatpicker
06-29-2008, 05:11 PM
Should tickets not be accessible to those members who WANT to be there?

I know quite a few people that would give up their tickets elsewhere to be in 112. Should we not do what we can to get them there, seeing as 112 is "home to the RPB's"?


I've often said that something needs to be organised with the FO to get some proper ticket exchanges going on.
I'm sure there are many people in the south end who would be happy to move elsewhere.
It would take a little more effort than they put into the last off-season switch-a-roo... but it's for the greater good!

Detroit_TFC
06-29-2008, 05:20 PM
I think total control in this sense mean control over seat licenses, not what people can do with individual game tickets.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 06:07 PM
Should tickets not be accessible to those members who WANT to be there?


they were, that's how I got tickets.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 07:11 PM
if this plan had been put in place from day 1 of the franchise, you'd have an effective plan.

Well that is what we were told... that all of section 112 would be ours... and certainly it is not.

Is the South End the Supporters Section or is it the cheap ticket section? There is a differance.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 07:13 PM
And we do this by asking people not to bring their kids into the supporters sections, and alienating families.


good plan.

You know what I'm talking about... if I bring my kids into 112 they will be supporters. We've heard stories of people asking supporters to SIT DOWN in the South End... those are the families I am talking about.

Or do you wish for more kids to come into the South End with soccer moms via scalper tickets?

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 07:17 PM
Should the entire south end surrender their seats to a third party, who will then decide if they're worthy enough to stay there?

Everyone in 114 must be an Ultra, everyone in 113 must be U-sector, everyone in 112 must be RPB......... Can you see where I'm going with this?

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 07:21 PM
The misguided few who ask for people to SIT DOWN, aren't actually influencing a sodding thing, theyre just smoke and mirrors in this debate.

Angelo1405
06-29-2008, 07:25 PM
http://www.behindthebadge.com/062908_BennyBanner_SM.jpg

they know the meaning of an actual TIFO. they put up a show, smoke bombs, flags, one of those black + red + white + red + white etc. cards. they have 2 stick banners, they sing in unison EVEN THOUGH they have several supporter groups, ...

BBBulldog
06-29-2008, 07:38 PM
1. They allow 1-2 supporters to organize flags / tifo / choreos on the pitch during the game!!! These dudes are running around getting the set-ups ready.

it's little more than 1-2 between 3 groups, Barra can probably pull dozen with permanenty access to help on field if we need it and more if we get temp stadium passes.



2. They allow the SG's a heck of alot more time to set-up their rail banners. Last time, we were stopped by some guy in a suit named "Tyler" with 4-5 cops with him for approx 10mins before we could bring "The Fortress" banner inside.

That's weird since doesn't your club control stadium? DC is just renting. I was joking that we need new stadium so we can get gate keys made in case we need place to paint stuff at 3am :D



3. They allow the supporters to ignite their own smoke bombs!! (I believe this is done by the dudes who also set-up the flags on the pitch)

smoke is illegal in RFK like anywhere else. To quote text from DCU top guy during metros game "stop the fuckin smoke bombs already" :D



4. They have given the supporters full control of their ticket seating in their area! That's right they don't have to deal with scalper seats in the South end.

It's less work for United when groups sell their tickets no? Good for them to have ton of guaranteed sales and good to us to be more flexible on price (our members DC-LA tickets were same price as any game, $25 while I believe even upper bowl was starting at $40 heh) and control who goes in. Boss of BB probably beats all United ticket sales reps in sales lol


Look at what happened to Dinamo Zagreb, most of their revenues comes from their firm, so the firm has a vast amount of power compared to other firms through out europe.

Dinamo revenue comes through selling players and merch. I think season ticket for north end (BBB) is like 20 bucks or something funny, so it doesn't raise revenue.


The best part about DCU is that you can have flag poles anywhere in the stadium but in BMO it's restricted to 15% of supporters, then they use the footage of those 15% to sell all-star game tickets etc.

That's not true, I don't think you can even bring them through gates (unless we do it on purpose, to march in or something). They are only really in supporter groups, it's just that Barra is 7 sections so it maybe looks that way. I'd rather have it that way where I can pick when to bring in flags than have random poles stickin through our displays or something :)



exhibit A...DC has a capo on a podium. let's see if that would fly with supporters here. doubt it.

We don't have podium, I just have good balance so I stand on 4 inch rail and hold onto arm or shoulder of person in front. others stand on chair rails. I'm not big on podiums, I rather do it that way, I think podium separates me from group and I don't like that.

hope that helps

FluSH
06-29-2008, 07:38 PM
Maybe people in 112 are selling their tickets...?

I'm a season ticket holder in 112, but I'm too busy to attend more than a couple games this season, so I sold my tickets. I still own the rights though.

Who did you sell your tickets to? other supporters? friends? You do own the rights...

Rudi
06-29-2008, 07:41 PM
http://www.behindthebadge.com/062908_BennyBanner_SM.jpg

they know the meaning of an actual TIFO. they put up a show, smoke bombs, flags, one of those black + red + white + red + white etc. cards. they have 2 stick banners, they sing in unison EVEN THOUGH they have several supporter groups, ...
They've also had 12 fucking years to get their shit together. Even then, the BB seldom have nice things to say about SE.

The simple truth about a lot of the freedoms that the DC supporters groups have versus us lies in their stadium situation.

They have a 46,000 seater that regularly sells 18,000 tickets for United games.

So yeah, it's a hell of a lot easier (and beneficial) for DC United FO to say, "Hey, SE/BB/La Norte, help us help you. You guys can have the freedom to congregate in the very middle of the stadium (thus giving the illusion of being far larger than you actually are) and even controlling the tickets in those sections as long as you guys ensure that the place is jumping game in and game out."

TFC doesn't have that luxury, as a smaller stadium that sells more tickets than DC does, selling out a season well before it even begins, with demand through the roof. They can't just boot out the people who bought seats in the south end through the same means as us. Even if they could, where would they put them?

Just because the TFC FO isn't figuratively stroking our cocks at any given moment, doesn't mean they aren't supporters group-friendly. This is a give-and-take, we are not going to be handed things overnight.

Flush, I'm personally working to see that one of the numbers on your list gets addressed (moreso than it is now) within the next few weeks. We'll see how it goes (I'm not going to say which one at this time as I'm still in the negotiating stage, but the other group heads are aware).

And no, there is absolutely no fence between Barra Brava and Screaming Eagles. I'm not even sure where you got that idea from.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 07:41 PM
Should the entire south end surrender their seats to a third party, who will then decide if they're worthy enough to stay there?

Everyone in 114 must be an Ultra, everyone in 113 must be U-sector, everyone in 112 must be RPB......... Can you see where I'm going with this?

I think everyone in the South End should be a supporter... regardless of what SG they belong to... as long as they are supporters the atmosphere would be like away games... when we are all united.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 07:47 PM
Well Im sad that you feel you can come take my ticket and hand it to a buddy.

You can't.

simple.


Exile why the attitude? Are you a supporter? If the answer is yes than regardless of RPB Usec etc... it doesn't matter... If you are a supporter then you are NOT a liability in the Supporters Section.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 07:48 PM
And no, there is absolutely no fence between Barra Brava and Screaming Eagles. I'm not even sure where you got that idea from.

Can someone from DC clear this up because I've heard otherwise... that a fence of sorts did go up.

FluSH
06-29-2008, 07:51 PM
Should the entire south end surrender their seats to a third party, who will then decide if they're worthy enough to stay there?

Everyone in 114 must be an Ultra, everyone in 113 must be U-sector, everyone in 112 must be RPB......... Can you see where I'm going with this?

Well,

Is this what happens in other parts of the world? Is this how BarraBrava controls their tickets and have everyone jumping and chanting?

Both you and I know that the entire South End will not surrender their tickets... that will not happen.

BBBulldog
06-29-2008, 08:01 PM
So yeah, it's a hell of a lot easier (and beneficial) for DC United FO to say, "Hey, SE/BB/La Norte, help us help you. You guys can have the freedom to congregate in the very middle of the stadium (thus giving the illusion of being far larger than you actually are) and even controlling the tickets in those sections as long as you guys ensure that the place is jumping game in and game out."


we could be sitting, it would do same thing since it's same price tickets as elsewhere in midfield. We have 7 sections which is huge chunk of side so don't think we're trying to appear bigger, I always say Barra is not one of bigger groups in MLS and we're not trying to be either.
We did leave one of our sections empty for a half between SE and us last year, that was funny. Well to us it was, it was espn game so others weren't finding it funny :)

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 08:05 PM
Flush,

I'm just illustrating that you are mixing up the word 'supporter' with 'RPB'

Yes all RPB are supposed to be supporters, but all supporters are not RPB and that's as true in 112 as it is anywhere else in the stadium.

Take the scalpers out of the equation here, yes their tickets should be reclaimed and redistributed, I have no argument with that, but to restrict the section to 'card carrying RPB' is not the same as restricting it to something as ambiguous as 'supporters'

BBBulldog
06-29-2008, 08:05 PM
Can someone from DC clear this up because I've heard otherwise... that a fence of sorts did go up.

it's a rail in between our side sections (134 and 135), we didn't ask for it so maybe stadium put it cos our people were falling into SE section. Our groups are completely different, we're general admission, they stand in specific seats so that doesn't work out well.

I was hoping it's more like Berlin wall size but oh well. :D idealy we'll be separate in new stadium except I'll be in wheelchair by then

Mrs. Workie
06-29-2008, 08:11 PM
Flush,

I'm just illustrating that you are mixing up the word 'supporter' with 'RPB'

Yes all RPB are supposed to be supporters, but all supporters are not RPB and that's as true in 112 as it is anywhere else in the stadium.

Take the scalpers out of the equation here, yes their tickets should be reclaimed and redistributed, I have no argument with that, but to restrict the section to 'card carrying RPB' is not the same as restricting it to something as ambiguous as 'supporters'


I'd like apologize, perhaps I was a little elitist in what I said.

You're right, not all supporters are RPB's, but I'd like to see 112 filled with supporters, who are going to sing and chant, and clap and jump the entire 90 mins.

Rudi
06-29-2008, 08:16 PM
we could be sitting, it would do same thing since it's same price tickets as elsewhere in midfield. We have 7 sections which is huge chunk of side so don't think we're trying to appear bigger, I always say Barra is not one of bigger groups in MLS and we're not trying to be either.
We did leave one of our sections empty for a half between SE and us last year, that was funny. Well to us it was, it was espn game so others weren't finding it funny :)
No offence meant Bulldog, I didn't mean to imply that BB is a small group (you're most definitely not), but sitting directly on camera does give the illusion that the entire stadium is jumping as much as you guys are.

There's nothing wrong with that, and in fact it was an ingenious move by the DC FO to allow your groups to congregate there unlike most groups around the league that are off to the side or behind a goal. Again, that all has to do with the fact that RFK has a ton of seats to fill, so why not give the hardcore support their pick of the crop?

To your guys' credit, you make use of the space quite effectively.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 08:29 PM
There is a stark differnce between our (what has become known as) 'casual' fans, and the casual fans you find in other MLS stadiums.

Until now this has worked in our favour, because, unlike the typical soccer mom with kids, our 'casuals' actually make a noise and join in, giving the illusion that our supporters groups are massive, when they represent only about 5-15% of the seats.
(somebody correct me, I'm guessing)

The problem now, from my perception is the disconnect between the SG and the 'casual' fan.

Captain Croatia
06-29-2008, 08:35 PM
smoke bombs smoke bombs smoke bombs!!

Like an earlier post, the BB have had 12 years to get their stuff together, its only our second. Hopefully some of the stuff on lush's list will be allowed.

MrHawk
06-29-2008, 08:57 PM
It takes time to build this. In the 2nd year, they have already made a name as one of the biggest supporters in MLS.

Who knows where RPB, U-Sector, Ultras, NEE and whatever new groups may form be like in 12 years.

ExiledRed
06-29-2008, 09:10 PM
It takes time to build this. In the 2nd year, they have already made a name as one of the biggest supporters in MLS.

Who knows where RPB, U-Sector, Ultras, NEE and whatever new groups may form be like in 12 years.

It's all about winning over those dastardly 'casual' fans, and getting them on board. That is the role of SG, to provide a base momentum for the majority of those in attendance, to add to.

Accomodation is a better solution to alienation in my opinion, and allows for spontaniety.

Just to remind you all, as I always like to, that one of our best atmospheres and definitely our loudest and most succesful chants all happened on the first day. We were more open to suggestion then

i.e when somebody in the upper west stand started chanting 'All we are saying' the rest of the crowd latched onto it, because it was relevant, funny, and everybody knew the words. Nobody turned around and said

"Hey fuckhead we're not singing that, we're doing Oh Toronto, now sing motherfucker!"

BBBulldog
06-29-2008, 09:23 PM
No offence meant Bulldog, I didn't mean to imply that BB is a small group (you're most definitely not), but sitting directly on camera does give the illusion that the entire stadium is jumping as much as you guys are.

There's nothing wrong with that, and in fact it was an ingenious move by the DC FO to allow your groups to congregate there unlike most groups around the league that are off to the side or behind a goal. Again, that all has to do with the fact that RFK has a ton of seats to fill, so why not give the hardcore support their pick of the crop?

To your guys' credit, you make use of the space quite effectively.

yea, but we've been there since '96, those are simply seats that first guys got, they didn't know where cameras were lol SE moved there in '97.

I'm sure we'll go behind goal in new place if that means cheaper tickets and standing by ourselves

Cambridge_Red
06-29-2008, 09:25 PM
I think the FO should reorganize the sections and let everyopne know in that specific section ahead of time if it's going to be a supporters section or a family section. I am all for having supporters groups throughout the stadium, but there should be designated areas for kids. It would be alot easier to organize tifo's, chants, etc if we were all in the same mindset in our sections.

redcard
06-29-2008, 09:26 PM
one problem I see in 116 is that we cant really hear what chants the RPB/USec are starting...once they are under way and almost done we figure it out..

during a couple of road matches that i and my friend have had a pleasure of attending, we chant -jump - u name it...and folks we love it...

however when we return to BMO its difficult to get 'into it' even though we are in 116...the best thing to unite the south end and is to get a capo and someone organize the chants from the centre of the south end....

as the entire south end is jumping the casual fans/families may not what to be there and try to get out...

we need to organize the entire south end to create the best atmosphere.

BBBulldog
06-29-2008, 09:39 PM
see olegunner, just a fence :D

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdcorum/2623295168/in/set-72157605886993128/

james
06-29-2008, 10:29 PM
With all do respect gunner here is my response:


-We had one timed chant last year and it worked great... trying new things here and there are nothing to worry about, and certainly not something we can learn from anyone else (i.e. DC supporters)


The big don't boss me crowd is only online and the reason why I brought the "away games" is because it shows that during game day we drop our differances... and when I say we, I mean the SG's. It's the non-supporters or the people who instigate the supporters who are the problem (didn't Usec have a problem with the top of 113 throwing pennies at them?) and this is why I say we need full control of our sections... and we can't learn that from DC supporters.


Once agian #4 will resolve this.


This is hardly an issue... more like a preference for some... we are talking about drumming here???? I mean to say that we need to get our shit together and include drumming as part of getting our shit together before we approach our FO is a bit off the wall.


again, this is why we have a democracy here... and go to polls or votes on issues... However a concensus accross the board is only ideological... the only concensus that exists is that we are all for the team... and that's what matters. This is why I mentioned that DC supporters have a FENCE between each other... I guess if we learn from them we will see a FENCE between 112 / 113


ya i always see people on this site who complain and bitch about stuff like they dont like drums or they hate it when people swear or they hate how fans throw stuff like streamers. Yet when its game day i never see or here these people complainning and bitching at the stadium. It always seems like people are having a great drunk time. So where do they all disapear to?

TO DEVILS
06-30-2008, 10:06 AM
The next generation of supporters, or the 'new blood' ARE the kids, and they're going to be better supporters than we are, because they are going to grow up with the team, they will know the rules of the game, and their heroes will be guys like Dichio, Jimmy B, Rohan Ricketts and so on.

This is all i will comment on this thread...

I took my 3 year old to NE this weekend. He stood by the drum all game or on my shoulders doing Forza TO...yes you read it right. Ask anybody on this trip about him...he was a real supporter.

This is how you build for the future. He sees guys like GeorgeB, Masrawy, King Tut as his extended family, and chanting at a game no different from watching Treehouse. Yes he heard cursing, yes he said the F word here and there, but its my job as parent to teach him that there is a right place to do it and a wrong place to do it.

He is coming to 127 tomorrow....he is a supporter, and if he lives and grows up in this enviorment TFC and our supporter group will have the longevity that i hope it does.

So good on yah for bringing your kids.

BBBulldog
06-30-2008, 10:22 AM
can someone tell me what's Forza song we were doing cos we probably call it something else lol

rocker
06-30-2008, 10:28 AM
It's all about winning over those dastardly 'casual' fans, and getting them on board. That is the role of SG, to provide a base momentum for the majority of those in attendance, to add to.

Accomodation is a better solution to alienation in my opinion, and allows for spontaniety.

ya this is the best that can be done now, at this late stage.
and even if there's conflict between standers and non-standers, then live with conflict. Eventually that conflict will push the people out to other seats through relocation every fall. the new fans need to learn this, and inevitably there will be disagreements. But maybe next time the second-timer will say "oh god, I don't want to sit there because of those crazy assholes!" and he/she will go over to the center or something. or he/she will convert to a standing supporter. it's a learning process that takes time.
to be honest the whole idea of standing and chanting all game is such a radical thing for Toronto sportsfans that I'm not surprised there's friction.

EdTheRed
06-30-2008, 10:29 AM
can someone tell me what's Forza song we were doing cos we probably call it something else lol

I'm gonna guess it's the Dale Cavese, since that's a fairly new addition to our repertoire, and, like someone in this thread pointed out, we still don't do it quite right. :D

S7Inv49Ghr8

RealG-TFC
06-30-2008, 10:30 AM
can someone tell me what's Forza song we were doing cos we probably call it something else lol

This is what BMO should be. No excuses.

S7Inv49Ghr8

Barbarez
06-30-2008, 10:38 AM
This is what BMO should be. No excuses.

S7Inv49Ghr8

BMO can't look like that. At least not with all the kids, senior citizens, Canadas next top model contestents and alcoholics around.

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 10:44 AM
^^And with the ever-creative Ultras doing "Your a f-gg-t" to the tune of this is our house :)

Barbarez
06-30-2008, 10:47 AM
^^And with the ever-creative Ultras doing "Your a f-gg-t" to the tune of this is our house :)

So what? Theres a lot worse shit spewed in the stands. Stop being such a girl.

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 11:02 AM
ExiledRed is spot on. I sit in 114. I sing. I am not an RPB, or a member of any other SG, nor do I have any desire to become one. Nothing against the SG's, it's just not my thing. I sing, the people around me sing. We all know each other now. I bought my tickets at the first available moment when the team was born, and selected where I sat based on where I wanted to be. If TFC called me now and pitched some re organization to me, I'd be more than pissed. I got up early and bought my seats. I like the people around me. It's crazy to think that people should have their support questioned in order to keep their season seat. What a terrible way to "reward" the people who supported the team from day one.
Things will get better at the BMO over time. No need to force it so much.

jm5k
06-30-2008, 11:29 AM
You really just need to focus on making more of a positive (and permanent) presence to people (Casual fans, MLSE, other Supporters). Do people on the outside know who the RPB are? Do they even know where in the stadium the tickets they bought on craigslist they will be, and what the implied social requirements are for that area? 1.5 years later, does MLSE even know that you'll be here in 5 years?

In asking for change so quickly you are being pennywise and pound foolish. The name of the game is education and turning the entire stadium (and in essence, all of Toronto) into a supporter section, and that takes time. Instead of focusing on purifying the 112, why not focus it on enhancing the surrounding areas, and marketing yourselves as a feature of the game at BMO. Yes you will have issues with scalpers and perceived 'cheap seat' purchasers that happen to drive grand caravans, but if you work to rally them into the event, the vast majority of people will join in and learn quickly. People like to have fun! Hand out fliers with a few massive chant lyrics and game-timings so Uncle Buck and his nephew can sing praise to Dicchio and feel like they are contributing rather than awkwardly sitting everything out wondering what's happening.

How about making a seating chart for 112 - 116? Start finding out what you're actually working with and who is legitimate. Maybe you could work out a trade system with RPBs in other areas and scalpers to try to thin their southern numbers (would be hard considering the sales potential of a south side game).

You can't set yourself up to be die-hard elitests for a 2 year old team and make comparisons to firms that are 10, 20, 50+ years old. At the end of the day this is just the beginning and there is an abundance of opportunity still to come; you just have to play your cards right!

Just my .02!

BBBulldog
06-30-2008, 11:29 AM
I'm gonna guess it's the Dale Cavese, since that's a fairly new addition to our repertoire, and, like someone in this thread pointed out, we still don't do it quite right. :D

S7Inv49Ghr8

it's not that new, we've done cavese for almost a year at away matches :) We just don't do a lot of away songs at home unless we can quickly put them in rotation or it would just sound like silence with 50 people singing :D

Agreed on not doing it right, but it's loud :D

mlsintoronto
06-30-2008, 11:29 AM
I'm reading this thread with interest. members of the supporters groups should realize that we (the FO) DO meet with the leadership of the various groups fairly regularly. And there is little unanimity among the groups (and us). But we work together. The supporters have been instrumental in guiding us through how much the FO should do. For example:

- we don't have anthem singers (most of the time) any more.
- we have player announcements where the fans take on the last name (and we're loosing the stutter - not sure where it came from in the first place)
- flags and banners - ONLY supporters groups are allowed these. getting these things into the stadium only requires a bit of communication - so that we dont put our gate staff in a difficult position of having to enforce different rules for different sections.
- NEE - they came together after the first season began. They approached us and asked for "official" status - but they were in a section that was not sold as a supporter section...so it was unfair to change the rules on the other people in the section in year 1...but we have arrived at a pretty good place after another year has gone by.

We're currently working together on trying to achieve some of the suggestions that are in this thread.

IMO, the FO should state the rules - based on stadium policies, public safety, fire rules, etc. then set you guys free and get the f out of your way. But we do have an obligation to the people who have purchased their tickets faithfully. Their concerns (all of them) are valid. Its simple a great big balancing act and we're doing a pretty good job of it.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 11:31 AM
can someone tell me what's Forza song we were doing cos we probably call it something else lol

You guys did it louder... but still not in tune! Good Job though

BC101
06-30-2008, 11:33 AM
You guys did it louder... but still not in tune! Good Job though

LOL pot and kettle stuff mate... we dont' sing the song right either...

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 11:36 AM
ExiledRed is spot on. I sit in 114. I sing. I am not an RPB, or a member of any other SG, nor do I have any desire to become one. Nothing against the SG's, it's just not my thing. I sing, the people around me sing. We all know each other now. I bought my tickets at the first available moment when the team was born, and selected where I sat based on where I wanted to be. If TFC called me now and pitched some re organization to me, I'd be more than pissed. I got up early and bought my seats. I like the people around me. It's crazy to think that people should have their support questioned in order to keep their season seat. What a terrible way to "reward" the people who supported the team from day one.
Things will get better at the BMO over time. No need to force it so much.

See Eric, I knew you had a great post in you somewhere :D

FluSH
06-30-2008, 11:37 AM
LOL pot and kettle stuff mate... we dont' sing the song right either...

I know... I didn't have to say it cause well there is a new thread every week that we don't chant it right =P

BC101
06-30-2008, 11:41 AM
I know... I didn't have to say it cause well there is a new thread every week that we don't chant it right =P
LOL so true... Ah well Cest La Vie.. As for the whole ticket relocation thing... No comment LOL.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 11:41 AM
ExiledRed is spot on. I sit in 114. I sing. I am not an RPB, or a member of any other SG, nor do I have any desire to become one. Nothing against the SG's, it's just not my thing. I sing, the people around me sing. We all know each other now. I bought my tickets at the first available moment when the team was born, and selected where I sat based on where I wanted to be. If TFC called me now and pitched some re organization to me, I'd be more than pissed. I got up early and bought my seats. I like the people around me. It's crazy to think that people should have their support questioned in order to keep their season seat. What a terrible way to "reward" the people who supported the team from day one.
Things will get better at the BMO over time. No need to force it so much.

You know what... I have no issue with your scenario and you fall under the same scenario as many people... however when we were sold this idea of the South End... it was supposed to be a Supporters area... not a cheap tickets area. You don't have to be a member of any SG to be a supporter, but in my opinion if you are in the South you shouldn't have been there just because they are the cheap tickets or because you bought tickets at the first available time... You should be there because you are a supporter. that's just my opinion.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 11:49 AM
You really just need to focus on making more of a positive (and permanent) presence to people (Casual fans, MLSE, other Supporters). Do people on the outside know who the RPB are? Do they even know where in the stadium the tickets they bought on craigslist they will be, and what the implied social requirements are for that area? 1.5 years later, does MLSE even know that you'll be here in 5 years?

In asking for change so quickly you are being pennywise and pound foolish. The name of the game is education and turning the entire stadium (and in essence, all of Toronto) into a supporter section, and that takes time. Instead of focusing on purifying the 112, why not focus it on enhancing the surrounding areas, and marketing yourselves as a feature of the game at BMO. Yes you will have issues with scalpers and perceived 'cheap seat' purchasers that happen to drive grand caravans, but if you work to rally them into the event, the vast majority of people will join in and learn quickly. People like to have fun! Hand out fliers with a few massive chant lyrics and game-timings so Uncle Buck and his nephew can sing praise to Dicchio and feel like they are contributing rather than awkwardly sitting everything out wondering what's happening.

How about making a seating chart for 112 - 116? Start finding out what you're actually working with and who is legitimate. Maybe you could work out a trade system with RPBs in other areas and scalpers to try to thin their southern numbers (would be hard considering the sales potential of a south side game).

You can't set yourself up to be die-hard elitests for a 2 year old team and make comparisons to firms that are 10, 20, 50+ years old. At the end of the day this is just the beginning and there is an abundance of opportunity still to come; you just have to play your cards right!

Just my .02!


jmk.. believe me we have done alot of the things you have mentioned and then SOME!!!

It's not about asking for change so quickly because realistically we know it will not happen... it's about raising the issue and bringing it to light before it's too late.

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 11:51 AM
You know what... I have no issue with your scenario and you fall under the same scenario as many people... however when we were sold this idea of the South End... it was supposed to be a Supporters area... not a cheap tickets area. You don't have to be a member of any SG to be a supporter, but in my opinion if you are in the South you shouldn't have been there just because they are the cheap tickets or because you bought tickets at the first available time... You should be there because you are a supporter. that's just my opinion.

The fact is, the supporters section was promoted as offering standing, the ability to wave flags and banners, easy access in and out of the stadium, relaxed policies on foul language and oh yeah, budget priced tickets.

What changed?

The SG weren't big enough to 'own' a section when the tickets went on sale and that's a fact. Other than a questionnaire on the fundamental definition of what constitutes a 'supporter' followed by a vetting process, what on earth could MLSE have done?

masrawy
06-30-2008, 11:55 AM
however when we were sold this idea of the South End... it was supposed to be a Supporters area... not a cheap tickets area.

South end is a flop.

Shut it down, only 112-114 + 127 should be supporters sections. Designate the old south end as a less rowdy, less organized version of the supporters sections. People in the top rows of our sections in the corners that don't want to participate can move to the middle sections, better view. The people all around the stadium that want to participate will have more space to move in. Ultimate solution would be to let groups buy up individual seats as they pop up under the group name, for some reason the FO is against that. I wonder why.

The club really needs to sort out it's relocation process and they need to help us out.

RealG-TFC
06-30-2008, 12:10 PM
BMO can't look like that. At least not with all the kids, senior citizens, Canadas next top model contestents and alcoholics around.

So when the stadium expands. Give the SG's power over the south end and kick out the casuals. And the SG need to be more "hardcore" if you will. I remember the first time I sat in the famed south end there was a guy badmouthing Dichio constantly with a flag (which he barely even flew) and some guy not wearing any red at all and wearing like a trendy sport coat talking about Velez when he scored. "ohh he must have been reading the boards." like srsly stfu, chant don't talk about teh internets outside teh internets.

Azerban
06-30-2008, 12:12 PM
South end is a flop.

Shut it down, only 112-114 + 127 should be supporters sections.

111 is the best section sorry this is true

FluSH
06-30-2008, 12:14 PM
What changed?

The SG weren't big enough to 'own' a section when the tickets went on sale and that's a fact. Other than a questionnaire on the fundamental definition of what constitutes a 'supporter' followed by a vetting process, what on earth could MLSE have done?

Of course we weren't big enough because we just started... it would be impossible for us (RPB , NEE etc) to be big enough unless we were like Usector who were a previous SG before TFC. What never took place was forecasting. You have tickets around the stadium where they were not allocated to Season ticket holders... these include tickets that are designated for away supporters, and group tickets etc etc... in retrospective if forecasting took place in regards to the growth of Supporter Groups we wouldn't have this issue of how to kick out the scalper seats and those people who bought cheap tickets in the South End to give away to their uncles, nephews, mother-in-laws etc. I mean were we never supposed to grow?

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 12:15 PM
So when the stadium expands. Give the SG's power over the south end and kick out the casuals. And the SG need to be more "hardcore" if you will. I remember the first time I sat in the famed south end there was a guy badmouthing Dichio constantly with a flag (which he barely even flew) and some guy not wearing any red at all and wearing like a trendy sport coat talking about Velez when he scored. "ohh he must have been reading the boards." like srsly stfu, chant don't talk about teh internets outside teh internets.

So now we should be excluding people based on happenstance comments between them and their buddies, or based on what they're wearing?

OK, I'm sure the FO will be all over that.

RealG-TFC
06-30-2008, 12:16 PM
YES. :)

FluSH
06-30-2008, 12:16 PM
So when the stadium expands. Give the SG's power over the south end and kick out the casuals. And the SG need to be more "hardcore" if you will. I remember the first time I sat in the famed south end there was a guy badmouthing Dichio constantly with a flag (which he barely even flew) and some guy not wearing any red at all and wearing like a trendy sport coat talking about Velez when he scored. "ohh he must have been reading the boards." like srsly stfu, chant don't talk about teh internets outside teh internets.

I heard in 117 this happened at the last game.... bad mouthing our own players?! WTF is that? but that's a different topic all together...

FluSH
06-30-2008, 12:19 PM
So now we should be excluding people based on happenstance comments between them and their buddies, or based on what they're wearing?

OK, I'm sure the FO will be all over that.

Ok,

So when the Oakville Football Club decides to buy 100 seats in one section are they not granted these seats so they are amongst their friends? Why can we not be amongst our friends? Why is is so hard for us to be amongst each other? and when I say us is not just RPB...

BC101
06-30-2008, 12:20 PM
Flush LOL you're never gonna reach a compromise with Ian he's mind is set LOL.

masrawy
06-30-2008, 12:23 PM
Ok,

So when the Oakville Football Club decides to buy 100 seats in one section are they not granted these seats so they are amongst their friends? Why can we not be amongst our friends? Why is is so hard for us to be amongst each other? and when I say us is not just RPB...

I never got that.

They let corporations and kiddie clubs buy up seats as groups, but when we want seats as groups, suddenly that's a big no no. Corporations don't spend thousands and thousands making tifo in the stands.

What gives Paul? Why can't we adopt the DCU model? I don't expect it to be an overnight thing, but year by year if we buy up seats that become available, who knows how many we will have down the line.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 12:23 PM
Flush LOL you're never gonna reach a compromise with Ian he's mind is set LOL.

Well I think he believes we are talking about ethnic cleansing here... we just want to be amongst each other.

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 12:23 PM
Of course we weren't big enough because we just started... it would be impossible for us (RPB , NEE etc) to be big enough unless we were like Usector who were a previous SG before TFC. What never took place was forecasting. You have tickets around the stadium where they were not allocated to Season ticket holders... these include tickets that are designated for away supporters, and group tickets etc etc... in retrospective if forecasting took place in regards to the growth of Supporter Groups we wouldn't have this issue of how to kick out the scalper seats and those people who bought cheap tickets in the South End to give away to their uncles, nephews, mother-in-laws etc. I mean were we never supposed to grow?

I think we've grown a lot.

Forecasting and Research and Development have always been suspect. But then again there were people on this board who believed that generating an atmosphere like we have on many occassions was going to be an impossibility, and that we were destined to be crap. That kind of mentality leads to caution and inhibition.

20,000 seats and a plastic field was the result of poor forecasting and R&D, based on a belief that TFC would be far less succesful than it has been. This too is crippling the teams growth, but I'm sure it's temporary in the grand scheme of things.

Hindsight is 20/20 .

what we are experiencing right now, is just growing pains, and I'm convinced it has a lot to do with the time of year when everybody fucks off to somewhere else for a while.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 12:26 PM
What gives Paul? Why can't we adopt the DCU model? I don't expect it to be an overnight thing, but year by year if we buy up seats that become available, who knows how many we will have down the line.


and Paul, my apologies for the over aggresive tone... I certainly know this is not a simply task at hand here... however you must realistically think about the long term growth of SG's and how we can have our own be in our sections(see life stages - previous post).

jm5k
06-30-2008, 12:27 PM
You'd have a much easier time moving the SGs into the new stands where you can start fresh and lay down some ground rules ahead of time. Of course I'm not sure how you'd do it; filter ticket sales through the SGs and have them be responsible to pony up the front-end cash and follow through with their members? That would logistically work the best but then you end up with a lot of financial issues. Proof of membership in order buy? Maybe have the SGs issue purchase orders to fans?

I don't understand why you can't just have a few coloured flags to tip everyone off on what's happening. Just like war epics like Gladiator/Braveheat where they flag reference the archers to attack with a green flag, and then artillery is a yellow/black crossed flag. Couldn't you just have a couple guys infront of the south end waving assorted flags at timed intervals? Like conductors or flag boys.

TO DEVILS
06-30-2008, 12:30 PM
Paul is right when he says alot has been done in cooperation between the supporter groups and FO....and this is a continuous job since we all meet on a regular basis to address issues that are important to us as well as to them. NEE is the perfect example of the communication and partnership between supporter groups and TFC FO.

This is a partnership but there is a third party involved that doesn't get as much of a saying as we do, and someone has to still look after their interests, After all if you removed 14,000 season ticket holders us supporters alone would not be able to create the atmosphere that BMO has.

Each group before demanding for things that we see at other stadiums we need to look internaly at solving our own issues, then build on that and make serious proposals that would benefit all parties.

I was in New England yesterday and they are allowed to do alot less than we...so if you asked them i am sure they would trade seats with us.

Communication....communication....make it a two way street and bring some concrete plans to the table, present them to the members of the groups get concensus and present them to the team. The FO is not allways the enemy...

FluSH
06-30-2008, 12:30 PM
I think we've grown a lot.

Forecasting and Research and Development have always been suspect. But then again there were people on this board who believed that generating an atmosphere like we have on many occassions was going to be an impossibility, and that we were destined to be crap. That kind of mentality leads to caution and inhibition.

20,000 seats and a plastic field was the result of poor forecasting and R&D, based on a belief that TFC would be far less succesful than it has been. This too is crippling the teams growth, but I'm sure it's temporary in the grand scheme of things.

Hindsight is 20/20 .

what we are experiencing right now, is just growing pains, and I'm convinced it has a lot to do with the time of year when everybody fucks off to somewhere else for a while.

Well come on Exile... the people on the board who thought negative about us are probably not here today. All I'm saying is that some planning needs to be done... we already know what can happen in 112 if we lose some key players to work/life stages etc... (Big Red, Luigi)... what will happen in 112/113 when we lose more people... and the scalper tickets remain?

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 12:31 PM
Flush,
I don't know you personally. I can say that I see your posts here regularly and admire your positive contribution to TFC. But, what I can't abide is this idea that you or anybody else has some sort of jurisdiction over my seat, or the seat of anyone else. Truth be told, the south end wasn't "sold" to me as anything. I was told it was where supporters groups were buying tickets (and at that time I had no idea who those people were). I was also told that I could get a seat behind the net, near the field for $200, and that there was room for me to get seats with 3 friends. No sales job needed. If people have a real problemn with who sits next to them, they have little recourse beyond waiting and hoping they might move ( like the morbidly obese dude who had jays tickets next to me growing up and took up half my seat :) ). I join in on the chants that I like. I don't join in on the chants I find stupid, out of place, or offensive. I stand because I like to. I have brought my girlfriend's mom to a game. I sometimes shit talk Dichio, because I get frutrated watching him waste chance after chance in front of me. Why any of this isn't ok is beyond me, and frankly this whole discussion leaves me feeling a bit sour.

BC101
06-30-2008, 12:31 PM
ohhhhhh i loathe those scalpers..

FluSH
06-30-2008, 12:36 PM
Flush,
I don't know you personally. I can say that I see your posts here regularly and admire your positive contribution to TFC. But, what I can't abide is this idea that you or anybody else has some sort of jurisdiction over my seat, or the seat of anyone else.

I certainly don't want anyone to think that we should have "ownership" of seats... that is not what I am trying to get accross... in fact I would give my rights of my seats if I knew I couldn't make it to games anymore and some other supporter could use my seat for the benefit of the team... This whole mentality of ownership of rights is new to me as I've never owned season tickets of anythign before... but we are here for the team and that is my main concern - to improve the atmosphere however possible.

TO DEVILS
06-30-2008, 12:38 PM
I never got that.

They let corporations and kiddie clubs buy up seats as groups, but when we want seats as groups, suddenly that's a big no no. Corporations don't spend thousands and thousands making tifo in the stands.

What gives Paul? Why can't we adopt the DCU model? I don't expect it to be an overnight thing, but year by year if we buy up seats that become available, who knows how many we will have down the line.

For this two happen there are only 2 ways:

- A north stand is built and each group is allocated sections. Their members through the FO get first choice on relocation and seats. Any remainder of seats is sold to the group first, if the group doesn't pick them up they go on sale on gameday at the booth.

- Time.....slowly moving people out of the supporter sections and work with the groups on getting their members that are seated elsewhere first dibs on moving in.


If the current relocation process continues the way it is, for as fair as it may be, it does nothing to help the supporters and the issues that continue to arise from scalpers or people just moving in due to the price of the seats.

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 12:45 PM
Well come on Exile... the people on the board who thought negative about us are probably not here today.

You think? it wasn't negativity, it was merely a belief that Toronto couldnt produce a soccer atmosphere because it was a 'hockey town' those people proved wrong are still amongst us, and that's no bad thing.



All I'm saying is that some planning needs to be done... we already know what can happen in 112 if we lose some key players to work/life stages etc... (Big Red, Luigi)... what will happen in 112/113 when we lose more people... and the scalper tickets remain?

Life happens, it's unavoidable. I'm sure the mid section was much quieter without me against KC. I imagine if I died today, it wouldn't be long before some noisy loud bastard took my place. All we can do is try to make a lasting impression while we are here, and pray that those who come after us can folow our example.

Scalped seats should be reclaimed and redistributed, and I believe that supporters within the section who hold seats should get dibs.

Carts
06-30-2008, 12:45 PM
Here's something that has always entered my mind, but have never posted - and is a little off topic, but can be put into this discussion...

Supporters are for the most part, the most passionate and "biggest" fans of their team... They live, breathe, drink, sleep, shop TFC, spend hundreds or even thousands on merchandise and roadtrips, spend hours making banners etc (hey, I'm one of them)...

My question, would you buy your tickets in the South End, if the price suddenly went from what it is today to $60 a ticket - with every other seat in the stadium staying the same price...???

It seems like a simple, even stupid question, but think of it this way... From a business perspective MLSE is selling tickets to its biggest most devoted fans at the cheapest price...

So, if MLSintoronto came on here and said "...next season the South End will be controlled by the SG's...they will purchase the tickets from us, and use them themselves - the only way we could do this was to raise a single ticket to $60 a game so the other fans would leave..." would you be happy...???

The "casual" fans in the South End would leave (why pay $60 a ticket when they could pay $50 and be almost mid-pitch)...

Just curious to see opinions - lets not turn that question in rant on MLSE making money etc etc etc...

Carts...

mlsintoronto
06-30-2008, 12:48 PM
carts - i dont understand the question...

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 12:49 PM
Here's something that has always entered my mind, but have never posted - and is a little off topic, but can be put into this discussion...

Supporters are for the most part, the most passionate and "biggest" fans of their team... They live, breathe, drink, sleep, shop TFC, spend hundreds or even thousands on merchandise and roadtrips, spend hours making banners etc (hey, I'm one of them)...

My question, would you buy your tickets in the South End, if the price suddenly went from what it is today to $60 a ticket - with every other seat in the stadium staying the same price...???

It seems like a simple, even stupid question, but think of it this way... From a business perspective MLSE is selling tickets to its biggest most devoted fans at the cheapest price...

So, if MLSintoronto came on here and said "...next season the South End will be controlled by the SG's...they will purchase the tickets from us, and use them themselves - the only way we could do this was to raise a single ticket to $60 a game so the other fans would leave..." would you be happy...???

The "casual" fans in the South End would leave (why pay $60 a ticket when they could pay $50 and be almost mid-pitch)...

Just curious to see opinions - lets not turn that question in rant on MLSE making money etc etc etc...

Carts...

Passion for your team is not income related.

MANY passionate supporters would be squeezed out of their seats like this.

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 12:49 PM
Here's something that has always entered my mind, but have never posted - and is a little off topic, but can be put into this discussion...

Supporters are for the most part, the most passionate and "biggest" fans of their team... They live, breathe, drink, sleep, shop TFC, spend hundreds or even thousands on merchandise and roadtrips, spend hours making banners etc (hey, I'm one of them)...

My question, would you buy your tickets in the South End, if the price suddenly went from what it is today to $60 a ticket - with every other seat in the stadium staying the same price...???

It seems like a simple, even stupid question, but think of it this way... From a business perspective MLSE is selling tickets to its biggest most devoted fans at the cheapest price...

So, if MLSintoronto came on here and said "...next season the South End will be controlled by the SG's...they will purchase the tickets from us, and use them themselves - the only way we could do this was to raise a single ticket to $60 a game so the other fans would leave..." would you be happy...???

The "casual" fans in the South End would leave (why pay $60 a ticket when they could pay $50 and be almost mid-pitch)...

Just curious to see opinions - lets not turn that question in rant on MLSE making money etc etc etc...

Carts...

I would tell them to fuck right off, and that it is unconscionable to nearly double my ST price in one year.
Just because I love the team doesn't make me a sap.

Carts
06-30-2008, 12:55 PM
carts - i dont understand the question...

Just asking what people's reaction would be to it... People often want change, in whatever they're doing etc - but change often comes with a price... Whether is be hard work, time spent, or (more often than not) in this day and age it comes down to money...

It appears many want the south end to be run by the SG's (myself included I think), my question was (hypothetically) if the only way to make this happen was to have the ticket prices go up dramatically, would people be for or against it...

I know this will not happen - I just wanted see what people would say to that... (and hopefully people won't start ranting etc on the parent company)...

Paul, sorry if it came across the wrong way - or as a slam to MLSE, it was merely a curiosity question... Hopefully I have explained it a little better here..

Thanks boys,
Carts...

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 12:55 PM
On a side note.

What about the 'casual' fan who knows nothing, who comes into the stadium, enjoys what he sees, embraces the atmosphere, joins in and wants to come again and bring friends?

Is this person a 'supporter' by default even though he never watched a soccer game in his life before this day? Or is he a clueless 'casual'?

The above describes a whole swathe of people who have contributed to TFC's success. In a few seasons they will be as hardcore as any of you, I truly believe that.

Carts
06-30-2008, 01:00 PM
On a side note.

What about the 'casual' fan who knows nothing, who comes into the stadium, enjoys what he sees, embraces the atmosphere, joins in and wants to come again and bring friends?

Is this person a 'supporter' by default even though he never watched a soccer game in his life before this day? Or is he a clueless 'casual'?

The above describes a whole swathe of people who have contributed to TFC's success. In a few seasons they will be as hardcore as any of you, I truly believe that.

I agree 100%...

I have converted many of my friends that very way (two of them are coming to Chicago for the match)...

An excellent point in the debate...

Carts...

jm5k
06-30-2008, 01:14 PM
On a side note.

What about the 'casual' fan who knows nothing, who comes into the stadium, enjoys what he sees, embraces the atmosphere, joins in and wants to come again and bring friends?

Is this person a 'supporter' by default even though he never watched a soccer game in his life before this day? Or is he a clueless 'casual'?

The above describes a whole swathe of people who have contributed to TFC's success. In a few seasons they will be as hardcore as any of you, I truly believe that.

These are the people you want to take and mold into supporters and situate them in a guerilla combat sense around the stadium. For every seat you turn, the greater the chances that the guy behind you will join in a chant rather than tell you to sit down (for the 40th time).

Weither or not they are considered a 'supporter' really depends on how much you want SGs to be likened to high school cliques. Should a true 'supporter' know a minimum of 9 players full names? All of them? Should they be able to stat-battle another supporter for hours on the 1976 Honduras/Canada Texas Cage match? I mean, you can draw a line in the sand wherever you like, but if you really enjoy the game, and love supporting the team, you're good in my books. If I can help you find your way (like I have with several friends, and a friend did for me last year), I will, and I promise not to judge you or deem you unworthy because you don't know why people are chanting Dicchio's name or what all those banners at the south end mean.

I think you're really just trolling at this point, which is fine (many of us at work do!), but it's pretty much been established that the goal is to get as many like-minded individuals together as possible, and break down scalping wherever possible. The ethnic cleansing that Flush joked about is a little extreme (as are some of his ideas), but the desire to be alongside like-minded individuals is not.

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 01:34 PM
trolling?

I was following your post until I read that,

I cant figure out how presenting my concerns and individual perspective on a debate is trolling.

In fact I resent that remark. This has been a reasonable and useful debate that has not degenerated into a slanging match, why start one now?

jm5k
06-30-2008, 01:49 PM
trolling?

I was following your post until I read that,

I cant figure out how presenting my concerns and individual perspective on a debate is trolling.

In fact I resent that remark. This has been a reasonable and useful debate that has not degenerated into a slanging match, why start one now?

I mean no disrespect, I play devil's advocate all the time online. It just seems like you're going out of your way to debase and debunk everything said in this thread, which is IMO a troll. We've actually agreed on pretty much everything thus far, or at least been in a similar mentality towards the issues at hand, I just read your last post as something akin to a 'what if' post which will turn a good thread into a nonsense thread in about 2 replies.

I appologise if I offended you, I just find more use in alternative solutions rather than exposition of problems :P

adampz
06-30-2008, 02:00 PM
I think the banners, flags, and total unison is something we can do, and isnt alot of work. We just have to do something about it. The next problem is the scalpers in the south end, is their anyway for MLSE to figure out whos scalping their tickets, or do you think MLSE would really do anything about it, theyre still getting their money either way.

jm5k
06-30-2008, 02:05 PM
I think the banners, flags, and total unison is something we can do, and isnt alot of work. We just have to do something about it. The next problem is the scalpers in the south end, is their anyway for MLSE to figure out whos scalping their tickets, or do you think MLSE would really do anything about it, theyre still getting their money either way.

Printing your ID on the tickets you buy and showing photo ID is the single easiest solution to scalping, yet for some reason it doesn't exist. Even season ticket holders just call customer service to add a friend to a game: "Hey this is Bob Smith, my Bday is 04-04-1978, my id code is 45687234 and my other ticket is being used on tuesday by Frank Jones born 05-03-1975 at this address".

My friends and I came up with this years ago late at night after many beers. It's probably the only coherant thing we came up with, other than snow bike racing.

EdTheRed
06-30-2008, 02:15 PM
Printing your ID on the tickets you buy and showing photo ID is the single easiest solution to scalping, yet for some reason it doesn't exist. Even season ticket holders just call customer service to add a friend to a game: "Hey this is Bob Smith, my Bday is 04-04-1978, my id code is 45687234 and my other ticket is being used on tuesday by Frank Jones born 05-03-1975 at this address".

My friends and I came up with this years ago late at night after many beers. It's probably the only coherant thing we came up with, other than snow bike racing.
At La Bombonera, season tickets outside of the terraces (which I'm 99% sure are controlled by La Doce) are actually just a photo ID card w/ name and seat info. The friend of a friend who took my wife, my cousin and me to a game there was a season ticket holder (he escorted us to our seats, but watched the match from his own seat, in a season ticket-holder section).

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 02:19 PM
I mean no disrespect, I play devil's advocate all the time online. It just seems like you're going out of your way to debase and debunk everything said in this thread, which is IMO a troll. We've actually agreed on pretty much everything thus far, or at least been in a similar mentality towards the issues at hand, I just read your last post as something akin to a 'what if' post which will turn a good thread into a nonsense thread in about 2 replies.

I appologise if I offended you, I just find more use in alternative solutions rather than exposition of problems :P

I think you're way off the mark, and if I call you a shit and I say I mean no disrespect, does that mean there was no disrespect?

I'm arguing from my own perspective and standpoint. There are no 'what if' arguments here. General consensus has not been reached by any means.

The 'clueless casual' I was referring to describes a bunch of people I've already bought to games, there is no hypothetical inflammatory argument at all.

jm5k
06-30-2008, 02:51 PM
I think you're way off the mark, and if I call you a shit and I say I mean no disrespect, does that mean there was no disrespect?

I'm arguing from my own perspective and standpoint. There are no 'what if' arguments here. General consensus has not been reached by any means.

The 'clueless casual' I was referring to describes a bunch of people I've already bought to games, there is no hypothetical inflammatory argument at all.

I disagree. I think it's safe to say that there is a general concensus on who we'd like to see in the south end, and who we wouldn't. I think that people still differ on what constitutes a true 'supporter' and also on how to achieve our goals (which is what this thread should be aiming to eleviate). I would like to think that everyone feels the same way I do about increasing education and exposure to help grow and cultivate the SGs as brand images as well as TFC in general, but I couldn't commit to that in good faith.

Lastly I know who you are referencing with your clueless casual, as most of us either were one or helped bring one up. I just didn't see a need to mention them as no one else had, and don't really see them as an issue (in regards to making supporter-controlled areas and removing granny fans) as in my experience these fans are eager to learn as much as possible and take part in anything they can. Coupled with your pattern of counter-posts that are essentally reiterating the same thing several times over (although every side is guilty of that, myself included!) and it quickly sneaks into troll territory.

No worries though mate, I've been trolling you too! And trust that it would take much more than a shit comment to rile me :P

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 03:49 PM
The reason I mentioned the clueless casual, was simply because he will be the first to go when a third party with it's own agenda gets to dole out the tickets.

The thread is not about who we would like and who we dont like, the debate is about the move to gain control of the south end, or at least section 112, and have, as eric puts it 'jurisdiction' over the tickets. I am against this, and I'm not the only one, so consensus has not been reached by a long shot, and given that all the STH in my row don't post on this board I'm speaking up for them too.

If control is handed over to a third party with it's own agenda, the newcomer will likely have to battle favouritism, snobbery and exclusivity in order to experience the south end, unless of course you think that whoever gets to dole out the tickets is automatically going to be impartial, unbiased and fair.

This concern is heightened by the fact that these newcomers already aren't allowed to get in to Shoeless after the match, because they dont have a card.

Blocking the supporters section and becoming insular is the next evolution of this process in my opinion and I don't like it.

jm5k
06-30-2008, 04:34 PM
The reason I mentioned the clueless casual, was simply because he will be the first to go when a third party with it's own agenda gets to dole out the tickets.

The thread is not about who we would like and who we dont like, the debate is about the move to gain control of the south end, or at least section 112, and have, as eric puts it 'jurisdiction' over the tickets. I am against this, and I'm not the only one, so consensus has not been reached by a long shot, and given that all the STH in my row don't post on this board I'm speaking up for them too.

If control is handed over to a third party with it's own agenda, the newcomer will likely have to battle favouritism, snobbery and exclusivity in order to experience the south end, unless of course you think that whoever gets to dole out the tickets is automatically going to be impartial, unbiased and fair.

This concern is heightened by the fact that these newcomers already aren't allowed to get in to Shoeless after the match, because they dont have a card.

Blocking the supporters section and becoming insular is the next evolution of this process in my opinion and I don't like it.

I guess it really comes down to planning on the part of BMO and MLSE, as well as the ability of SGs to fill the seats. Ideally the experience can grow and spread throughout the stadium, so that 20,000 people are chanting in unison, not 500. Sadly, I don't really see that happening.

As I said earlier, the job of a SG in a 2 yr old team *should be* educating the general public and converting more people into hardcore fans. Sure having 112 be all RPBs would be great to see, but imagine an entire stadium full of fans who stand the whole game, are willing to raise their voices, actually learn the game and can understand the sublety of a well-placed curse word. That's what I would love to see, and as things become more commonplace, they would inherantly become more universally accepted.

I can see why you'd be upset with setting something as important as seating plans under the guidance of a third party - I would be as well - and you *will* run into issues with favouritism and preferential treatment which I do not agree with.

All that being said, I am as I have stated in the past, ultimately looking for the most utilitarianistic solution possible. I want the greatest number of people having the best time possible. If that means that a few parents have to be more careful where they buy tickets and MLSE need to spend a little more money advertising and dividing the stadium, then sobeit. I am OK with that.

ilikemusic
06-30-2008, 04:35 PM
If control is handed over to a third party with it's own agenda, the newcomer will likely have to battle favouritism, snobbery and exclusivity in order to experience the south end, unless of course you think that whoever gets to dole out the tickets is automatically going to be impartial, unbiased and fair.

This concern is heightened by the fact that these newcomers already aren't allowed to get in to Shoeless after the match, because they dont have a card.

Blocking the supporters section and becoming insular is the next evolution of this process in my opinion and I don't like it.

I dont disagree with your points but fact is the south end is already insular, exclusive and full of snobbery.

And are newcomers 'not allowed' into Shoeless after matches? Ive never attempted to go as ive felt the negative insular exclusive atmosphere since day one but if at this point they are simply not allowed then I would have to say these supporters groups have completely lost the plot.

IMO the onlyanswer to these problems is simply increased capacity or decreased attendance. The reason DC is able to do such an amazing job is they have got the space to operate.

Before BMO was built I was honestly hoping the MLS team would play at the Skydome because I knew demand would be high. Some people seem to attribute Toronto FC's success in large part to BMO Field but I would strongly disagree with that. This city was ready to jump on board for a pro soccer club no matter where they played.

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 04:49 PM
I dont disagree with your points but fact is the south end is already insular, exclusive and full of snobbery.

And are newcomers 'not allowed' into Shoeless after matches? Ive never attempted to go as ive felt the negative insular exclusive atmosphere since day one but if at this point they are simply not allowed then I would have to say these supporters groups have completely lost the plot.

IMO the onlyanswer to these problems is simply increased capacity or decreased attendance. The reason DC is able to do such an amazing job is they have got the space to operate.

Before BMO was built I was honestly hoping the MLS team would play at the Skydome because I knew demand would be high. Some people seem to attribute Toronto FC's success in large part to BMO Field but I would strongly disagree with that. This city was ready to jump on board for a pro soccer club no matter where they played.

I dont think the south end is full of snobbery, in fact I think right now it's quite welcoming to newcomers, and there is little elitism or exclusivity.

The Shoeless situation is the solution to overcrowding, it's not meant to be elitist, it just is, by default. I wouldnt mind being turned away because it's full, but being told I can come in but my friend can't is unacceptable.

el rojo fanatico
06-30-2008, 07:42 PM
I'd like apologize, perhaps I was a little elitist in what I said.

You're right, not all supporters are RPB's, but I'd like to see 112 filled with supporters, who are going to sing and chant, and clap and jump the entire 90 mins.
QFT, I know that people have purchased those seats but they did buy seats in the supporters section. Some people on this thread have said that we should just continue with our thing and people will pick up. The problem is those people in the 2 rows in between us have been seeing us do our thing for a season and a half and still have no desire to jump in and it does piss you off because you put so much into every game only to have pockets of dead space.

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 07:54 PM
QFT, I know that people have purchased those seats but they did buy seats in the supporters section. Some people on this thread have said that we should just continue with our thing and people will pick up. The problem is those people in the 2 rows in between us have been seeing us do our thing for a season and a half and still have no desire to jump in and it does piss you off because you put so much into every game only to have pockets of dead space.

The people in those two rows can do what they like as long as they dont try to interfere with us doing what we like. If they show up game after game, spend money and stand up, then they are 'supporters' whether you like it or not. I agree it would be nice if they joined in, or relocated so some others could come and join in, but seriously, If the novelty dwindles and we start seeing the odd 15,000 attendance games and the people in those two rows are still there, I'll appreciate that.

el rojo fanatico
06-30-2008, 07:58 PM
Does the purchaser of tickets not bear some responsibility to know what he or she is getting into? How long would I last if I bought seasons to White Heart Lane and then wore my Arsenal kit to every game?

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 08:17 PM
^^ If you stood in White Hart lane and didnt sing, I doubt anybody would give a fuck to be honest.

The local rivalry kit analogy doesnt hold up, maybe if the people in those two rows were wearing kits from other MLS teams.

el rojo fanatico
06-30-2008, 08:19 PM
^ Lol, Touche

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 08:22 PM
People can do what they want, provided it doesn't impinge upon others. They can sit, stand, cheer, be silent, or read the newspaper. Anyone who is there every week is supporting the team. They just might not want to do it your way. Some people like to show their support by chanting "this is our house". I don't. Some like to call opposition players f-gg-ts. I don't. Some people love the team, but because life happens, can only make it out to a couple of games a year. They're cool too.
There will always be clusters of people who don't want to sing, or what ever. That shouldn't destroy the atmosphere at the ground.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 08:38 PM
The thread is not about who we would like and who we dont like, the debate is about the move to gain control of the south end, or at least section 112, and have, as eric puts it 'jurisdiction' over the tickets. I am against this, and I'm not the only one, so consensus has not been reached by a long shot, and given that all the STH in my row don't post on this board I'm speaking up for them too.


Was not 112 and 113 supposed to be for supporters? I personally don't want to be beside people who are there to "admire" the game and not support for a full 90 minutes... It's a hard mothfucking job what we do day-in-day out... with organizing chants, making banners, and getting others on board so we can have the atmosphere that we have today... I am not here for anyone's amusement or entertainment... we are not a novelty that people can bring in their aunts and uncles and say hey... those are the crazy guys in the "fan" section I got tickets there you wanna come? I don't want to stand besides someone who is not supporting the team 90 minutes... is there something wrong with that?

Obviously we have this mentality of "rights" (it's my right and I wanna do as I please) and because of it people would go mental if the FO gave us control of the South End like we thought we would have had. The only answer is for us to move... and if we move we want things to be done right, so the individuas who want to read a newspaper (just because it's their fucking right) can do so and we do what we were always intended to do.... support the team.

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 08:41 PM
There will always be clusters of people who don't want to sing, or what ever. That shouldn't destroy the atmosphere at the ground.

I agree, and I don't think people have really analysed what is the root of last Saturday's atmosphere problem. It's not like all the STH gave up their tickets and handed them off to 'casuals' and 'newbs'

The atmosphere was intense just a few weeks before, so either, everybody is on holiday, or people are just getting plain bored with the same old shit every week.

BigTingsGwan
06-30-2008, 08:45 PM
Sure Dc F office is keeping the Barra happy..But it seems these guys are very easy to please..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdcorum/2622482523/in/set-72157605886993128/

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 08:46 PM
I agree, and I don't think people have really analysed what is the root of last Saturday's atmosphere problem. It's not like all the STH gave up their tickets and handed them off to 'casuals' and 'newbs'

The atmosphere was intense just a few weeks before, so either, everybody is on holiday, or people are just getting plain bored with the same old shit every week.

Exactly. It's a lot of finger pointing, and very little acceptance that this s the normal ebb and flow of the game. There are games that are barn burners, either on or off the pitch, and games that are flat. It happens everywhere I've ever been to a game, and it certainly happens here. It just makes the intense games that much more special. There's no way of manufacturing emotion at every game. It's just not realistic.
And Flush and I will continue to disagree on the idea that only people screaming their lungs out are supporting the team.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 08:50 PM
I agree, and I don't think people have really analysed what is the root of last Saturday's atmosphere problem. It's not like all the STH gave up their tickets and handed them off to 'casuals' and 'newbs'

The atmosphere was intense just a few weeks before, so either, everybody is on holiday, or people are just getting plain bored with the same old shit every week.

I've actually didn't post this thread because of last saturday's match... it was posted after seeing the game of "The home of the 12th man". They have a model of granting control of their tickets to a "third party" as you say that has been used all over the world... I want the same here, not because of what happened last saturday, but what can happen 2-3yrs from now...

FluSH
06-30-2008, 08:54 PM
And Flush and I will continue to disagree on the idea that only people screaming their lungs out are supporting the team.

If it was only that easy... do you know how many supporters (RPB/NEE/Usec) have neglected their families over TFC... including myself? Making banners at wee hours in the morning? buying materials when I should be buying milk and diapers? attending meetings in downtown Toronto on weeknights? answering emails after emails?

You can support the team in various ways... (see Mayor David Miller) I just want like minded people to support the team beside me... what's wrong with that?

nascarguy
06-30-2008, 08:54 PM
3. They allow the supporters to ignite their own smoke bombs!! (I believe this is done by the dudes who also set-up the flags on the pitch)

? no smoke bomb is a MLS rule for all teams i have been in there supporter sec for many game and the cops there pull the poeple the light the smoke bomb if there see who does it that is why u all away light and thow it on the ground plus there field is about 15ft away from the sec. If we had that we would have to play in the skydome

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 08:55 PM
If it was only that easy... do you know how many supporters (RPB/NEE/Usec) have neglected their families over TFC... including myself? Making banners at wee hours in the morning? buying materials when I should be buying milk and diapers? attending meetings in downtown Toronto on weeknights? answering emails after emails?

You can support the team in various ways... (see Mayor David Miller) I just want like minded people to support the team beside me... what's wrong with that?

Nothing at all wrong with the desire. We just disagree on the execution.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:00 PM
Nothing at all wrong with the desire. We just disagree on the execution.

The execution is simple...

1. Either fulfill the promise that the South End is to be a REAL Supporters Section.

or

2. We move and start from scratch the right way... with an a number of game-by-game tickets that we could allocate to supporters not scalpers or soccer moms.

-----

If nothing is done... you will see the death of the South End...and possibly 3 yrs from now you will be posting threads about: (Where are they now?)

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 09:06 PM
If it was only that easy... do you know how many supporters (RPB/NEE/Usec) have neglected their families over TFC... including myself? Making banners at wee hours in the morning? buying materials when I should be buying milk and diapers? attending meetings in downtown Toronto on weeknights? answering emails after emails?

You can support the team in various ways... (see Mayor David Miller) I just want like minded people to support the team beside me... what's wrong with that?

I see you every match surrounded by like minded people, so what's up?

I've bought my passion, my lungs (you've heard me) and my dollars to all but one home game since we opened last year. It costs me a lot of money to make it in from Guelph every game and it definitely impacts my family, but you won't find me neglecting my kids so I can make a flag, and if one of them is really sick, I dont think Jimmy Brennan will mind If I stay home.

There are people who's support is being scorned, despite the fact that they are into this club for thousands of dollars, and making a huge contribution to the team's success.

If they dont sing, that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

masrawy
06-30-2008, 09:07 PM
If nothing is done... you will see the death of the South End...and possibly 3 yrs from now you will be posting threads about: (Where are they now?)

i.e. Section 8 Part 2.

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 09:09 PM
The execution is simple...

1. Either fulfill the promise that the South End is to be a REAL Supporters Section.

or

2. We move and start from scratch the right way... with an a number of game-by-game tickets that we could allocate to supporters not scalpers or soccer moms.

-----

If nothing is done... you will see the death of the South End...and possibly 3 yrs from now you will be posting threads about: (Where are they now?)

This I completely disagree with. If nothing is done, things will equilibrate, and the people that want to support your way still will.
Anyway, I've said my piece and feel like we're running in circles now.
I appreciate your passion on this issue, sincerely.

el rojo fanatico
06-30-2008, 09:11 PM
The bottom line point that Flush makes is valid. These like minded supporters who now are spread out over all hells creation would desire to all be in the same section so their efforts are put to the max, I don't think that is such a outlandish request. By talking about it now, we could come up with a solution that puts nobody out.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:12 PM
If they dont sing, that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

and the cookie crumbs should be falling in a different section... with others who don't want to chant.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:15 PM
This I completely disagree with. If nothing is done, things will equilibrate, and the people that want to support your way still will.
Anyway, I've said my piece and feel like we're running in circles now.
I appreciate your passion on this issue, sincerely.


How will things equilibrate? really? I honestly would like to hear...

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 09:16 PM
The execution is simple...

If nothing is done... you will see the death of the South End...and possibly 3 yrs from now you will be posting threads about: (Where are they now?)

This isn't provable.

You're fearmongering really. I've avoided KOP analogies thus far, because people complain when I harp on about Liverpool supporters, but seriously, when I was there, there was nothing special about any individual supporter, they didnt have message boards, they didnt rely on capos, supporters groups, songsheets or cellphones and yet it was they who got the rest of the league singing in the stands, how many times has that clip from 1964 been held up as an example?

Sponataneity, humour and a common radio station was all it took.

I believe that forcing the support has had the opposite effect, sorry.

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 09:20 PM
How will things equilibrate? really? I honestly would like to hear...

Because you are attempting to make a leap that the crowd isn't ready for. Give it time. Things will get better. Many people are just learning about this, and just getting comfortable with it. And I agree with Exiled that this approach of beating people over the head with songs etc. is turning as many people off as it is turning on. I see it all the time. People shaking their heads at people singing the wrong words to songs, and then wondering why they don't sing. It just doesn't make sense.
Relax. The BMO atmosphere (which is great already) will continue to grow with the team, with or without organized efforts (not that your effort isn't appreciated).

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:20 PM
There are people who's support is being scorned, despite the fact that they are into this club for thousands of dollars, and making a huge contribution to the team's success.


I've never disagree with this remark... that is why I brought up Mayor Miller. He supports the team with $$$ of dollars and FREE publicity worth $$$ x 2... It's not the fact that we scorn people that don't want to chant or make banners like we do... is the fact that we want to be together with people who want to Chant and make banners etc... that is the issue.

I am no better than anyone else at BMO Field... and that's the truth... but I rather be with other Supporters who are in the same state of mind as I am...and not with soccer moms or scalped ticket seats.

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 09:22 PM
I've never disagree with this remark... that is why I brought up Mayor Miller. He supports the team with $$$ of dollars and FREE publicity worth $$$ x 2... It's not the fact that we scorn people that don't want to chant or make banners like we do... is the fact that we want to be together with people who want to Chant and make banners etc... that is the issue.

I am no better than anyone else at BMO Field... and that's the truth... but I rather be with other Supporters who are in the same state of mind as I am...and not with soccer moms or scalped ticket seats.

Then moving might be your best option.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:24 PM
This isn't provable.

You're fearmongering really. I've avoided KOP analogies thus far, because people complain when I harp on about Liverpool supporters, but seriously, when I was there, there was nothing special about any individual supporter, they didnt have message boards, they didnt rely on capos, supporters groups, songsheets or cellphones and yet it was they who got the rest of the league singing in the stands, how many times has that clip from 1964 been held up as an example?

Sponataneity, humour and a common radio station was all it took.

I believe that forcing the support has had the opposite effect, sorry.

If we had a common radio station here that was devoted to TFC 100% we wouldn't be talking about this... here we look for "footy pubs" where in the rest of the world outside of North America... every pub is a footy pub! You get my drift? and yet the model of havin a third party control their ticket section is alive and well in many places aroudn the world.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:25 PM
Then moving might be your best option.

In reality it would be the only option...

Dirk Diggler
06-30-2008, 09:25 PM
This isn't provable.

You're fearmongering really. I've avoided KOP analogies thus far, because people complain when I harp on about Liverpool supporters, but seriously, when I was there, there was nothing special about any individual supporter, they didnt have message boards, they didnt rely on capos, supporters groups, songsheets or cellphones and yet it was they who got the rest of the league singing in the stands, how many times has that clip from 1964 been held up as an example?

Sponataneity, humour and a common radio station was all it took.

I believe that forcing the support has had the opposite effect, sorry.

QFT.

I think we are worrying too much about a non-issue here. Forcing support down people's throat will never work. We just have to let the support grow organically over the years. The way I see it, as long as MLSE doesn't raise the ticket prices to ACC levels, the support (the singing, chanting kind) will only improve.

el rojo fanatico
06-30-2008, 09:26 PM
This isn't provable.

You're fearmongering really. I've avoided KOP analogies thus far, because people complain when I harp on about Liverpool supporters, but seriously, when I was there, there was nothing special about any individual supporter, they didnt have message boards, they didnt rely on capos, supporters groups, songsheets or cellphones and yet it was they who got the rest of the league singing in the stands, how many times has that clip from 1964 been held up as an example?

Sponataneity, humour and a common radio station was all it took.

I believe that forcing the support has had the opposite effect, sorry.
Could this not be considered a clash of football cultures? I like you have been exposed to the British style of support and a lot of what I have seen in Toronto has come from Latin America and East Europe, it is pretty new to me and very exciting. Maybe we should be discussing how better to mesh the styles, no?

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 09:28 PM
Could this not be considered a clash of football cultures? I like you have been exposed to the British style of support and a lot of what I have seen in Toronto has come from Latin America and East Europe, it is pretty new to me and very exciting. Maybe we should be discussing how better to mesh the styles, no?

damn good point.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:29 PM
Because you are attempting to make a leap that the crowd isn't ready for. Give it time. Things will get better. Many people are just learning about this, and just getting comfortable with it. And I agree with Exiled that this approach of beating people over the head with songs etc. is turning as many people off as it is turning on. I see it all the time. People shaking their heads at people singing the wrong words to songs, and then wondering why they don't sing. It just doesn't make sense.
Relax. The BMO atmosphere (which is great already) will continue to grow with the team, with or without organized efforts (not that your effort isn't appreciated).

To summarize the above you say give it time... time = risk

OneLoveOneEric
06-30-2008, 09:30 PM
If we had a common radio station here that was devoted to TFC 100% we wouldn't be talking about this... here we look for "footy pubs" where in the rest of the world outside of North America... every pub is a footy pub! You get my drift? and yet the model of havin a third party control their ticket section is alive and well in many places aroudn the world.


To summarize the above you say give it time... time = risk

Of course it does. There is no fool proof plan.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:31 PM
Of course it does. There is no fool proof plan.

No there isn't... but if we are able to control some of our surroundings... just like in a controlled science environment we should see the probablity swing to our favour...

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 09:32 PM
If we had a common radio station here that was devoted to TFC 100% we wouldn't be talking about this.

Im not talking about a LFC radio station. I dont think one of those ever existed.

Im talking about the fact that everybody in the stands knew the same songs because they all listened to radio merseyside, so spreading them around Anfield was easy, whilst spreading 'Horto Magicko' around BMO has been an impossibility.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:37 PM
Im not talking about a LFC radio station. I dont think one of those ever existed.

Im talking about the fact that everybody in the stands knew the same songs because they all listened to radio merseyside, so spreading them around Anfield was easy, whilst spreading 'Horto Magicko' around BMO has been an impossibility.

So everyone in the stands was homogenous? Are we like that here? We are far from that in this multicultural mosaic... in fact besides TFC... some of us have nothing else in common... heck I only came to Canada in 1991... so anything to do with popular culture in NA pre-1991 is pretty much non-existant to me!

Roogsy
06-30-2008, 09:38 PM
You ref!

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:40 PM
Jaja

Hijo de La Guerra and proud of it!

el rojo fanatico
06-30-2008, 09:43 PM
damn good point.
I see this as a great oppertunity in this city to create the most unique football atmosphere in the world if we don't all cut each other's throat's first. We have all heard the bitching about TRN but maybe they are just bringing the Carrabiean vibe. There must be a way capos and the forza can live side by side with up the reds and a good harty cheer when our lads surge forward

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 09:43 PM
So everyone in the stands was homogenous? Are we like that here? We are far from that in this multicultural mosaic... in fact besides TFC... some of us have nothing else in common... heck I only came to Canada in 1991... so anything to do with popular culture in NA pre-1991 is pretty much non-existant to me!

homogenous is not a word I would dare call a fellow liverpool supporter, but there is truth that they were all members of a much more insular community to begin with.

Multiculturalism is definitely an obstacle in everybody reaching a consensus.

Look, we have no original songs, everybody has issues with one song or another, and the only one that was invented on the fly, that was picked up by the ENTIRE stadium was 'all we are saying'........ which everybody knows.

Devote our energies to something like 'my town' which everybody knows and I'm sure we'll get results.

FluSH
06-30-2008, 09:51 PM
devote our energies to something like 'my town' which everybody knows and I'm sure we'll get results.

haha this is what I 'm talking about... I swear to God the first time I heard "My Town" was here through these boards... now if we were talking about Ice Cube's "Wicked" or Luniz' "I got 5 on it" that would be a different story...

tfc_4_ever
06-30-2008, 09:53 PM
I wish:)

TO DEVILS
06-30-2008, 09:54 PM
What about we got Hoes in all the different area codes?

We have started in 127 our own version of the Master P hit...Make Em Say Hummm.

It's loved by all, hated by many.

ExiledRed
06-30-2008, 09:56 PM
haha this is what I 'm talking about... I swear to God the first time I heard "My Town" was here through these boards... now if we were talking about Ice Cube's "Wicked" or Luniz' "I got 5 on it" that would be a different story...

I would say a majority know 'my town' and Im only talking about two lines in the chorus.

"Bring the wind to carry me over, take me home to my town."

If you dont know it, it will take one hearing to learn.

The singer is canadian so it's locally relavant, and it's actually quite a poignant song to sing to Vancouver and Montreal who are always deriding Toronto. It tells them, that we are proud. despite their scorn.

I'll bet you it picks up if it's allowed to.

EdTheRed
07-01-2008, 09:07 AM
Jaja

Hijo de La Guerra and proud of it!
You're from El Salvador, no? Should've come to San Washington, DC - only stadium in MLS with a pupusa stand. :D

Seriously, though, you guys have two separate issues here: 1) scalpers and 2) control of the tickets in certain sections. Of course, solving 2 solves 1, but since that's not likely to happen for you until a North Stand is built, you should at least work with the FO to crack down on scalping, which I assume is a major source of clueless "tourists" in the supporters' sections. It's a baby step, but it would be progress.

koryo
07-01-2008, 09:13 AM
Planning on quitting in 5 years Flushie? LOL!

Give it 20 and he'll be the father of the next starting XI.

Roogsy
07-01-2008, 10:42 AM
You're from El Salvador, no? Should've come to San Washington, DC - only stadium in MLS with a pupusa stand. :D

Seriously, though, you guys have two separate issues here: 1) scalpers and 2) control of the tickets in certain sections. Of course, solving 2 solves 1, but since that's not likely to happen for you until a North Stand is built, you should at least work with the FO to crack down on scalping, which I assume is a major source of clueless "tourists" in the supporters' sections. It's a baby step, but it would be progress.


WH-WH-WHAAAAAAAT???

You mean I was within walking distance of a Pupusa stand at RFK and I didn't bother to go get one?

Not that I went without while in DC...I made sure I hit one outside the city.

But still, you can never have TOO many Pupusas.

EdTheRed
07-01-2008, 12:38 PM
WH-WH-WHAAAAAAAT???

You mean I was within walking distance of a Pupusa stand at RFK and I didn't bother to go get one?

Not that I went without while in DC...I made sure I hit one outside the city.

But still, you can never have TOO many Pupusas.
You were right above them - it's a new vendor...they weren't even there at the beginning of the season. :D Handmade on the spot, too. $6 for 2, which is a lot for pupusas, but cheap for stadium food. Bonus: across from Guinness/Harp stand, almost adjacent to Stella/Grolsch stand. :cool:

Roogsy
07-01-2008, 01:01 PM
With salsa?

I guess I am going back to RFK!

EdTheRed
07-01-2008, 01:32 PM
With salsa?

I guess I am going back to RFK!
Con curtido (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtido). :D