MLS Club Ownership. . MLSE. . A True TFC Advantage

[Technorgasm]

Major League Soccer owners

Toronto FC - Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment
Chicago Fire - Anschutz Entertainment Group
Houston Dynamo - Anschutz Entertainment Group
Los Angeles Galaxy - Anschutz Entertainment Group
Chivas USA - Antonio Cue, Jorge Vergara
Colorado Rapids - Stan Kroenke
Columbus Crew - Hunt family, led by Clark Hunt
D.C. United - D.C. United Holdings
FC Dallas - Hunt family, led by Clark Hunt
Montreal Impact - Joey Saputo
New England Revolution - Robert Kraft
New York Red Bulls - Red Bull GmbH
Philadelphia Union - Keystone Sports & Ent. LLC ( local investors)
Portland Timbers - Shortstop, LLC (investment group Merritt Paulson)
Real Salt Lake - SCP Worldwide
San Jose Earthquakes - Lewis Wolff, John Fisher
Seattle Sounders FC - Joe Roth -minority: Adrian Hanauer, Paul Allen, and Drew Carey
Sporting Kansas City - OnGoal, LLC
Vancouver Whitecaps FC - Greg Kerfoot, Steve Luczo, Jeff Mallett, Steve Nash

------------------------

As much as we may hate them, and the doom-and-gloom the Leafs have created for all of us since birth, we have to realize that having an ownership group like MLSE with thei kind of resources and government support is a clear cut advantage over the majority of the teams in this league.

Getting kilnsmann involved and shelling out for this new management group to be implemented takes HUGE resources.

the facilities and personnel we have not only for the games, but for training ($17 million investment pending) injuries and player health, scouting, knowledge base, management salaries (no cap) and sway with broadcast rights and sponsorship is INVALUALE to the success and stability of this football club.

Its time we realize the advantage that MLSE gives us, and appreciate the effort and expense that has been given to this teams future. If there is another group with their resources that want to buy TFC, great, but until then lets take stock.

All Im saying is that yes, they are the boogey men, but having a smaller, less funded, less powerful ownership group would not give us as good a footing as we have it.

DISCUSS.

[trane]

Again. Agreed, if they are on the same page as us as too goals, as I said right now they seem to be. So I am happy.


[ as I side note I find it incredibel that one owenership group owns three teams in the same league]

[Technorgasm]

"Because soccer is exempt from the NFL's cross-ownership rules, Kroenke can continue to hold his interest in the Rapids if he so wishes. The same applies to Clark Hunt, the principal owner of the Kansas City Chiefs and two MLS franchises as well as Anschutz Group"

[trane]

^ The MLS is full of suprises.

[kodiakTFC]

Houston Dynamo is co-owned by Oscar De La Hoya and his Golden Boy Productions investment company. The company holds a 25% interest in the Houston Dynamo team. I think their is another minority owner too.

[Davenport]

If MLSE knew anything about building winning sports teams it would be.

[Detroit_TFC]

Again. Agreed, if they are on the same page as us as too goals, as I said right now they seem to be. So I am happy.


[ as I side note I find it incredibel that one owenership grop owns three teams in the same league]

I think at one point Hunt owned 3 (Crew, Wizards, Dallas) and Anschutz owned 6 (Chicago, LA, Colorado, NY, DC, San Jose) of the 10 teams (NE Revs the other) in the league. This was after the Tampa Bay and Miami contraction in 2001. MLS was on a knife edge financially for a long time until not that long ago.

[billyfly]

Again. Agreed, if they are on the same page as us as too goals, as I said right now they seem to be. So I am happy.


[ as I side note I find it incredibel that one owenership grop owns three teams in the same league]

CFL as well. BC Lions and Argos owned by same guy.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

moneys never been an issue, its always been mismanagement, ideally its being sorted as of yesterday re: TFC and yes, we could have it WAY worse

[Gobi]

Gotta agree with Techno on this.

Much as ML$E has its head up its ass most of the time, I'm prepared to believe the suits have been humbled by last fall's 'protests'/negativity.
If they're willing to hand over the reins to Winter, Mariner, et al, then what a blessing all that $$$ will be!

[Oldtimer]

I feel good about ML$E handing over a big cheque for this team to spend.

I never had that kind of confidence with Mo.

[Sullivan]

Gotta agree with Techno on this.

Much as ML$E has its head up its ass most of the time, I'm prepared to believe the suits have been humbled by last fall's 'protests'/negativity.
If they're willing to hand over the reins to Winter, Mariner, et al, then what a blessing all that $$$ will be!


One example of where TFC has benefited is TFC were the first MLS club to have Prozone, and Prozone isn't cheap. BTW, TFC re-upped last year with Prozone to 2012.
http://www.prozonesports.com/news-article-toronto-fc-extend-prozone-service.html

Real Salt Lake, Colorado, Vancouver & Portland are also Prozone users.

I heard that the CSA don't subscribe to Prozone but the OSA does, but with one of the smaller analytical packages. Again, not cheap.

Prozone stuff: http://www.prozonesports.com/services.html

[Waggy]

CFL as well. BC Lions and Argos owned by same guy.

That was and is a huge issue though. And it's only being allowed temporarily. And the guy who owns both isn't an entertainment corporation, but a guy who is not only a Canadian Senator but a guy who as a benefactor has given millions and millions of his own dollars to help Canadian Football at the minor, university and pro levels. He isn't expecting to make money, he only stepped in to take over the Argos because the league begged him to. The MLS situation seems different. How isn't that mentioned whenever 2 of the teams play each other? Have they looked for other ownership groups? I'd imagine the Galaxy would at least be in some demand at this point, if not the other clubs.


Edit: To the point: ya it is great to have deep pocketed owners. I love that they spend money and energy on the club. But I'm glad they're starting to do it in smart ways. The attitude MLSE seems to have generally taken in the past is that they can just spend their way to success. Thats how the Leafs operated pre-salary cap, thats how they treated the Raps (they SPEND on the GM/Coaches and training facilities) and TFC. But money also requires some vision to go with it. That vision is the area they tend to be lacking in.

[ManUtd4ever]

Correct me if I'm wrong but yesterday's announcement regarding the decision to construct a $17,000,000 Academy/Training facility is unprecedented in North American soccer. MLSE is finally starting to flex their financial muscle by investing in a superior infrastructure throughout the organization. It's a great long term investment that will reap substantial profits if the Academy starts developing players that may be talented enough to play in Europe in the future...

[TFCRegina]

Today I won't hate on MLSE, because I know they've invested a shitload into the physical capital of this club and are making efforts to invest in human capital of the club as well.

I honestly don't think they try to fail. MLSE is in this to win, it's just about utilizing their resources better.

Kudos for their support for football in Canada.

[flatpicker]

One example of where TFC has benefited is TFC were the first MLS club to have Prozone, and Prozone isn't cheap.
Real Salt Lake, Colorado, Vancouver & Portland are also Prozone users.




I tried some Prozone once... messed me up something fierce.

[Oldtimer]

It's really a testimony to Mo's absolute incompetence that with all of the advantages he was given on top of the league parity, he managed to have a team that tanked for 4 years straight.

[bgnewf]

Seattle's Paul Allen (who also owns the Seattle Seahawks and Portland Trail Blazers) is worth almost $13 billion.

MLSE is pocket change for that guy.

[Waggy]

Seattle's Paul Allen (who also owns the Seattle Seahawks and Portland Trail Blazers) is worth almost $13 billion.

MLSE is pocket change for that guy.

The Ontario Teachers Pension Fund is worth almost 100 billion dollars in total

[Parkdale]

Seattle's Paul Allen (who also owns the Seattle Seahawks and Portland Trail Blazers) is worth almost $13 billion.

MLSE is pocket change for that guy.

the entire league is pocket change for him.

sure there are exceptions, but I don't think it's debatable that MLSE is a BIG company.

now are they a GOOD company? That's easily debatable.

[Beach_Red]

I feel good about ML$E handing over a big cheque for this team to spend.

I never had that kind of confidence with Mo.

Niether did they, this is a completely different structure. This time they actually have handed over the team - three year contracts, that's great.

It makes sense they didn't do it in the beginning as has been pointed out, the league has entered a different era than the one it was in then. Chances are if MLSE were coming in as an expansion team this year they'd be doing it the way they are now because of what's happened in places like Seattle and investments made in Philadelphia and New York (er, New Jersey) and Vancouver.

This is also a good sign going forward, it means a lot of places have confidence that the league will grow and be more successful and they'll keep up with it.

Hey, if things go well the team will have glory years ahead, in a bigger, better MLS - imagine being New England, a good team in a previous era but are they making the move into the new one?

[TFCRegina]

The Ontario Teachers Pension Fund is worth almost 100 billion dollars in total

Was about to say this. MLSE is backed by OTPP, meaning Seattle can lick both our balls.

[Oldtimer]

Hey, if things go well the team will have glory years ahead, in a bigger, better MLS - imagine being New England, a good team in a previous era but are they making the move into the new one?

D.C. hasn't done well in the new era, and they have been the most decorated MLS team in all competitions, ever.

Being a big market team with deep pockets will pay off in this new era.

[Suds]

I don't think MLSE can ever be classified as a poor company or making poor business decisions. All their sports franchises may currently suck. But that just shows they know jack about about building winning teams or, to date, hiring the right people to build them.

On the TFC front I have to give them their due. They invested in the franchise not knowing 100% of how profitable it would be. They have started and academy program. And now the announcement of the new training facility. They deserve credit for all of this.

Now go win some damn games and get lids to fit the beer cups at BMO! :D

[Detroit_TFC]

Correct me if I'm wrong but yesterday's announcement regarding the decision to construct a $17,000,000 Academy/Training facility is unprecedented in North American soccer. MLSE is finally starting to flex their financial muscle by investing in a superior infrastructure throughout the organization. It's a great long term investment that will reap substantial profits if the Academy starts developing players that may be talented enough to play in Europe in the future...

This is a big deal but since a lot of people already knew they were working on this, didn't make a big splash. IMO stuff like this roots the sport far deeper than anything done in the past.

[prizby]

[ as I side note I find it incredibel that one owenership group owns three teams in the same league]

i think at one point they use to own something like 9 of the teams?


Seattle's Paul Allen (who also owns the Seattle Seahawks and Portland Trail Blazers) is worth almost $13 billion.

MLSE is pocket change for that guy.

MLSE as a company might be pocket change, but Bell as a part owner of MLSE isn't

---------------------------------

Robert kraft doesn't give a fuck about the Revolution...the Patriots are his baby

[TorCanSoc]

I think EPL went public with a bunch of teams. NewCastle comes to mind. You could buy stocks in the team. A friend of mine bought one share, just to say he owns a part of NUFC.

The company good/bad question could be answered with "Would you consider MLSE as a serious long term investment, if they ever went public?" Financially speaking only of course.

... I think I would.




....but they're not.

...and they won't.

...so I can't.

[Sweeper]

Agree with the thread statement. I think the investment in an expensive management "team" is the right way to go and perhaps some of the other Toronto franchises will take note. It's too soon to tell how effective it will be but time and again we have seen that the dictatorial approach hasn't worked. Kudos to MLSE for stepping up and investing for the future but no doubt it's mostly because they see a business case for it.

[Oldtimer]

^ Anselmi was set to use the "standard" North American model for TFC going forward. It appears that Klinsmann changed his mind.

[Cashcleaner]

Because we've never had any other entity in control of TFC, it's awfully hard to judge whether or not we have any advantage with MLSE at the helm. I totally agree that if we were owned by a smaller organization with less funding and resources we'd likely be in pretty rough shape, but we can't really say that with any certainty. I mean, think about all the clubs in the league with owners whos pockets are nowhere as deep as MLSE yet have outclassed us on the field for four years.

[torontocelt]

Major League Soccer owners

Toronto FC - Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment
Chicago Fire - Anschutz Entertainment Group
Houston Dynamo - Anschutz Entertainment Group
Los Angeles Galaxy - Anschutz Entertainment Group
Chivas USA - Antonio Cue, Jorge Vergara
Colorado Rapids - Stan Kroenke
Columbus Crew - Hunt family, led by Clark Hunt
D.C. United - D.C. United Holdings
FC Dallas - Hunt family, led by Clark Hunt
Montreal Impact - Joey Saputo
New England Revolution - Robert Kraft
New York Red Bulls - Red Bull GmbH
Philadelphia Union - Keystone Sports & Ent. LLC ( local investors)
Portland Timbers - Shortstop, LLC (investment group Merritt Paulson)
Real Salt Lake - SCP Worldwide
San Jose Earthquakes - Lewis Wolff, John Fisher
Seattle Sounders FC - Joe Roth -minority: Adrian Hanauer, Paul Allen, and Drew Carey
Sporting Kansas City - OnGoal, LLC
Vancouver Whitecaps FC - Greg Kerfoot, Steve Luczo, Jeff Mallett, Steve Nash

------------------------

As much as we may hate them, and the doom-and-gloom the Leafs have created for all of us since birth, we have to realize that having an ownership group like MLSE with thei kind of resources and government support is a clear cut advantage over the majority of the teams in this league.

Getting kilnsmann involved and shelling out for this new management group to be implemented takes HUGE resources.

the facilities and personnel we have not only for the games, but for training ($17 million investment pending) injuries and player health, scouting, knowledge base, management salaries (no cap) and sway with broadcast rights and sponsorship is INVALUALE to the success and stability of this football club.

Its time we realize the advantage that MLSE gives us, and appreciate the effort and expense that has been given to this teams future. If there is another group with their resources that want to buy TFC, great, but until then lets take stock.

All Im saying is that yes, they are the boogey men, but having a smaller, less funded, less powerful ownership group would not give us as good a footing as we have it.

DISCUSS.

It is difficult to judge how good the MLSE could be as an owner as the MLS has so many crazy rules that it nullifies a lot of the advantages a wealthy owner could bring us. I can only judge them on the players we have managed to bring in, our management teams and the league positions we have attained and on all fronts the MLSE have proven that as a management group they have been massive failures. I dont really understand this MLSE love in, the reality is that for four seasons the team has been shit, the management has been incredibly poor and the investment in the team has not been great in relation to how much the MLSE is worth. It is great that they have permission from the MLSE to build a training complex but they have never had to buy the stadium we play in so the $17m is the first big money they have put down in four years apart from the rights to bring the club to Toronto. The MLSE has it all to prove to me, all of their teams perform poorly, there is clearly something very wrong with the decisions they make. Lets all praise them when we have some success, until then why praise them for doing things which should have been done at the start?

[boban]

As much as we may hate them, and the doom-and-gloom the Leafs have created for all of us since birth, we have to realize that having an ownership group like MLSE with thei kind of resources and government support is a clear cut advantage over the majority of the teams in this league.

Getting kilnsmann involved and shelling out for this new management group to be implemented takes HUGE resources.

the facilities and personnel we have not only for the games, but for training ($17 million investment pending) injuries and player health, scouting, knowledge base, management salaries (no cap) and sway with broadcast rights and sponsorship is INVALUALE to the success and stability of this football club.

Its time we realize the advantage that MLSE gives us, and appreciate the effort and expense that has been given to this teams future. If there is another group with their resources that want to buy TFC, great, but until then lets take stock.

All Im saying is that yes, they are the boogey men, but having a smaller, less funded, less powerful ownership group would not give us as good a footing as we have it.

DISCUSS.
MLSE has the resources csz we have rabid fans who sell out the place at one of the leagues highest ticket prices.
Period!!!!!
Any owner with that support would have the resources. Its independent of the owner.

And even if your point had some validity, what advantage did the MLSE monopoly get us?? Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!.

[jazzy]

It's really a testimony to Mo's absolute incompetence that with all of the advantages he was given on top of the league parity, he managed to have a team that tanked for 4 years straight.

^this......amazing, he ALMOST singlehandedly ruined soccer in Toronto, maybe with a less secure ownership, they would have packed it in?....Loads of money wasted!...and yes can criticize soccer tactics but, there has been a solid commitment here....nothing ventured, nothing gained

[ensco]

Because OTTP has $100 billion in assets, our ownership is "richer" than Paul Allen?

This is not how money works, and borders on childish. It's apples and oranges.

Discretionary control of assets is everything. OTTP are fiduciaries. MLSE aren't in Allen's league in terms of their ability to spend on soccer, or anything else, if that's the question. Nobody in OTTP or MLSE has the authority to just do that.

[Glenchen29]

I don't think MLSE can ever be classified as a poor company or making poor business decisions. All their sports franchises may currently suck. But that just shows they know jack about about building winning teams or, to date, hiring the right people to build them.

On the TFC front I have to give them their due. They invested in the franchise not knowing 100% of how profitable it would be. They have started and academy program. And now the announcement of the new training facility. They deserve credit for all of this.

Now go win some damn games and get lids to fit the beer cups at BMO! :D

YES, they know jack about building a winning team! The trick now is to KEEP Soccer Solutions and Jurgen around for 5 years as MLSE cannot be held in trust to make the proper decisions for winning! If you have seen Jurgens interview on TFC TV he goes into detail about the MLS rules and how they may POSSIBLY change over the next few years, should this happen Soccer Solutions needs to be here to guide MLSE on future signings!

[Beach_Red]

Because OTTP has $100 billion in assets, our ownership is "richer" than Paul Allen?

This is not how money works, and borders on childish. It's apples and oranges.

Discretionary control of assets is everything. OTTP are fiduciaries. MLSE aren't in Allen's league in terms of their ability to spend on soccer, or anything else, if that's the question. Nobody in OTTP or MLSE has the authority to just do that.


It's true, the biggest "advantage" we have in Toronto is selling 20,000 tickets a game and buying a lot of merchandise and having a lot of that reinvested in the team. It's likely TFC's operating budget has increased each year. They certainly didn't invest more than they were bringing in, which a Paul Allen or a Joe Roth might have, but they also didn't suck out every dime.

[jloome]

Niether did they, this is a completely different structure. This time they actually have handed over the team - three year contracts, that's great.

It makes sense they didn't do it in the beginning as has been pointed out, the league has entered a different era than the one it was in then. Chances are if MLSE were coming in as an expansion team this year they'd be doing it the way they are now because of what's happened in places like Seattle and investments made in Philadelphia and New York (er, New Jersey) and Vancouver.

This is also a good sign going forward, it means a lot of places have confidence that the league will grow and be more successful and they'll keep up with it.

Hey, if things go well the team will have glory years ahead, in a bigger, better MLS - imagine being New England, a good team in a previous era but are they making the move into the new one?

Or even D.C. Great support still, despite a cavernous football stadium, can't get a stadium deal, can't find a working front office.

Digging the optimism. Remains to be seen if Winter can motivate adult first-teamers, as he's never done it before. De Klerk was apparently a very smart signing, may actually be handling a lot of bench boss duties while Winter does tactics.

[Beach_Red]

Or even D.C. Great support still, despite a cavernous football stadium, can't get a stadium deal, can't find a working front office.

Digging the optimism. Remains to be seen if Winter can motivate adult first-teamers, as he's never done it before. De Klerk was apparently a very smart signing, may actually be handling a lot of bench boss duties while Winter does tactics.

Haven't you been following the DeRo saga? ;)

But really, an MLS team with a lot of North American players who came through the NCAA will likely react very well to a guy bringing a system - especially a guy with the confidence that comes from experience.

I remember discussions on here about Carver, lots of people saying that his experience with youth teams would be good at this level - who knows if that would have worked out with a stable front office, but in this case you're probably right, De Klerk is important and so is Mariner and all of his MLS experience. Yeah, let's be optimistic for a while.

[ensco]

. De Klerk was apparently a very smart signing, may actually be handling a lot of bench boss duties while Winter does tactics.

This is important. Remember Bob Gansler from year one? Former MLS Cup winning coach. He was supposed to have a significant amount of responsibility in the same role under Mo, but quit after the first season, made it clear he was pretty angry and wouldn't talk about it.

That was the first real sign of trouble with Mo.

[Beach_Red]

^ Trouble, yes, but there's more that could be looked into there...

[trane]

This is important. Remember Bob Gansler from year one? Former MLS Cup winning coach. He was supposed to have a significant amount of responsibility in the same role under Mo, but quit after the first season, made it clear he was pretty angry and wouldn't talk about it.

That was the first real sign of trouble with Mo.


The only thing that saved Mo the first year was Dichio, when he was on the pitched we were able to play a decent simple organized game, with some success. No Dichio and th first year would have been more of a disaster then it was.

[boban]

^^ Sticking up for your Italians eh? ;) lol