Effort, Attitude, and Giving Up...?

[Carts]

Last night, and watching the game back this morning, I am really upset with the lack of effort, or 'not playing to the whistle' by some of our players (especially at some key moments)...

Brian Edwards: Earlier this year Carver ripped Edwards for his attitude in training, took a start away from him, and the message was hopefully sent.

Last night Edwards GAVE UP on two live balls, and both ended up in the back of our net...

1st goal - a beautiful cross that's knock on by the head. The instant it beats Edwards he stands flat footed, looks to the sky and says "I was beaten, 1-nil". Uh hello son, the ball hit the post and bounced right back out. Ralston runs in a taps it in. Had Edwards not given up on the ball, he had an excellent chance of beating Ralston to the ball, or diving infront of the 2nd shot. Getting beat happens, but it shouldn't happen for lack of effort or attitude...

Unfortunately, he's not the only one who gave up on the play... Jim Brennan does the exact same thing. The instant the ball beats Edwards he goes flat footed and his body language is saying "f***, 1-nil". The he sees the ball hit the post - one problem, Ralston is going full stride and beats him to the ball...

Guys can't be giving up on live balls. Think about it this way in terms of effort. Ralston never stops running during the play. Watch the overhead replay. The ball beats Edwards, he keeps running, and becuase of that he easily blows by Brennan and beats Edwards for an easy tap in. He scored purely on effort, and out-working are boys...

The 2nd goal, when the ball initially hits the crossbar, Edwards does the exact same thing - now on this play, it wouldn't have mattered. But you'd think, after allowing a goal because you gave up on a play earlier, that you wouldn't do it again...

I don't want to be overly-critical (as fans we sometimes are), but to lose 2-1 to NE because two of our players gave up on a ball is very frustating...

The team as a whole defintely DID NOT give up. Down 2-nil to the class of the league, we battled to a 2-1 loss, with chances to tie. That can be seen a 'positive loss' in many ways. But to have a goal scored because guys gave up on a play - thats just not a good enough effort...

Carts...

[MrHawk]

The defense had a few lapses which caused the 2nd goal, as 2 guys around Ralston and no one could seem to cover him.

The first goal, everyone was just a deer caught in the headlights.

[Blazer]

Last night, and watching the game back this morning, I am really upset with the lack of effort, or 'not playing to the whistle' by some of our players (especially at some key moments)...

Brian Edwards: Earlier this year Carver ripped Edwards for his attitude in training, took a start away from him, and the message was hopefully sent.

Last night Edwards GAVE UP on two live balls, and both ended up in the back of our net...

1st goal - a beautiful cross that's knock on by the head. The instant it beats Edwards he stands flat footed, looks to the sky and says "I was beaten, 1-nil". Uh hello son, the ball hit the post and bounced right back out. Ralston runs in a taps it in. Had Edwards not given up on the ball, he had an excellent chance of beating Ralston to the ball, or diving infront of the 2nd shot. Getting beat happens, but it shouldn't happen for lack of effort or attitude...

Unfortunately, he's not the only one who gave up on the play... Jim Brennan does the exact same thing. The instant the ball beats Edwards he goes flat footed and his body language is saying "f***, 1-nil". The he sees the ball hit the post - one problem, Ralston is going full stride and beats him to the ball...

Guys can't be giving up on live balls. Think about it this way in terms of effort. Ralston never stops running during the play. Watch the overhead replay. The ball beats Edwards, he keeps running, and becuase of that he easily blows by Brennan and beats Edwards for an easy tap in. He scored purely on effort, and out-working are boys...

The 2nd goal, when the ball initially hits the crossbar, Edwards does the exact same thing - now on this play, it wouldn't have mattered. But you'd think, after allowing a goal because you gave up on a play earlier, that you wouldn't do it again...

I don't want to be overly-critical (as fans we sometimes are), but to lose 2-1 to NE because two of our players gave up on a ball is very frustating...

The team as a whole defintely DID NOT give up. Down 2-nil to the class of the league, we battled to a 2-1 loss, with chances to tie. That can be seen a 'positive loss' in many ways. But to have a goal scored because guys gave up on a play - thats just not a good enough effort...

Carts...


Although I agree with most of your post-game assessment, you’re probably over-exaggerating the second goal. It was a great shot that even Sutton doesn’t have. Spatially he may have had a different angle than Edwards but in the end nobody in the world would have had that bend.

Lapses all over the pitch for sure. Onward and upward.

[kdzb]

Last night Edwards GAVE UP on two live balls, and both ended up in the back of our net...

1st goal - a beautiful cross that's knock on by the head. The instant it beats Edwards he stands flat footed, looks to the sky and says "I was beaten, 1-nil". Uh hello son, the ball hit the post and bounced right back out. Ralston runs in a taps it in. Had Edwards not given up on the ball, he had an excellent chance of beating Ralston to the ball, or diving infront of the 2nd shot. Getting beat happens, but it shouldn't happen for lack of effort or attitude...

Carts...


You are right on this particular point about Edwards.
The best example of the difference between playing with heart and playing with the lack of it is:
On the 88 minute when Jarod Smith missed to tie the score. Who came back from a beaten position to catch the ball? It's Matt Reis.
He was completely beaten when Smith headed the ball on to the defender and on the rebound, Mr Reis was there in position to catch it and deny TFC the tying goal.
I hope Carver and company learn from Nicoll's wisdom as a coach and start working hard with this team to get the best of our players.
I said it before in this board...Our team look better and deeper in the bench then any Team in this league but the lack of heart in the field from certain players is getting me very upset at times.
Last night and for the first time, I realized that Robert is not a good fit for us. I prefer Brennan on the Left Midfield. When he was their late in the second half, he created more chances than Robert.

[Roogsy]

I think Edwards was beat on those balls pretty clearly...BUT...he did show that he gave up on them. As a keeper, it's his duty to go after balls even if he has only a slim chance of saving it. You never know if luck goes your way. Edwards didn't even try, he just stood there. He didn't show any urgency or effort. And while I don't really blame him for the goals...it did disappoint me somewhat.

We lost as a collective unit last night.

[ua-kozak_TFC]

i think the biggest problem last game were the DMs they were not tracking back or helping the defense in any way... they did not constest the shooter they just stood there with no intention to take the ball away.. most of the times they jogged when they should be running and did not cover NE players a couple of times it was 3 vs 3 in the big box and robbo and edu nowhere to be seen.
i think these guys think that it;s not their biseness to defend... which just pisses me off. their effort in defending was pathetic.
I think that central medfielder play a KEY role in defending their are the acheles heal of any defence.

Note to EDU: YOU ARE NOT MESSI!!! Stop trying to dribble, cause you suck at it...

[Cashcleaner]

Edward's performance really surprised me. I thought he would have looked a lot livlier out on the pitch, but like you said, he simply gave up once the ball went past his head. Regardless of whether or not they have enough time to block any rebound, all keepers have to condition themselves to stay alert and keep on their toes at all times.

[Mrs. Workie]

I agree Edwards probably should have made those saves.

HOWEVER,

Where were the defenders to clear the rebounds?

When you have 3 or 4 red shirts in front of your net, there's no way one of them shouldn't get the ball to clear it.

[Roogsy]

How about the goal that NE cleared off the line? Did you guys see how many players were in there working to keep Smith's ball out of the net?

It's that kind of effort that wins games. It wasn't there for us.

Good call Mrs W.

[TFC-Tyler]

Dont let James Oliwhatever hear this! He'll whip out statistics to show you you're wrong!

[Carts]

Although I agree with most of your post-game assessment, you’re probably over-exaggerating the second goal. It was a great shot that even Sutton doesn’t have. Spatially he may have had a different angle than Edwards but in the end nobody in the world would have had that bend.

Lapses all over the pitch for sure. Onward and upward.

Absolutely agree...

The actual shot that beat Edwards was perfect - superman wouldn't have stopped it...

It was the fact that when the initial ball beat him (then hit the bar) he did the 'deer in headlights, oh shit they scored' stand still... And its that same reaction he had on the first goal (when the ball hit the post) - that allowed it to be a goal (Brennan too)...

Also, I really like Edwards, and of course love Jimmy B... I don't want to be overly-critical or sound like a whiny bastard, but effort, effort, effort and not giving up on anything - even if it seems out of reach, could have been the difference in grabbing a single point last night...

Carts...

[Mrs. Workie]

How about the goal that NE cleared off the line? Did you guys see how many players were in there working to keep Smith's ball out of the net?

It's that kind of effort that wins games. It wasn't there for us.

Good call Mrs W.


Exactly. We have 2 or 3 really good chances to tie the game, and solid defending by NE stopped that.

[bee dubya]

It was very disappointing to see how NE got their two goals last night. I think it can be chalked up to some very poor defensive play all around - the back 4 and Edwards can all share the blame.

While it was good to see that the team put in a good effort to try and come back, it's disconcerting to see that we still can't score in open play. Edu's goal was off a set play. It seems like this is the only way we can score lately. I'm glad that we're scoring off set plays (it's a welcome change from last year) but it's quite obvious that we're lacking some seriously quality in our attack - specifically in our finishing. I thought Dichio played well but when Cuningham came on the field, I just had a sinking feeling that we weren't going to score - or more specifically HE wasn't going to score. Carver...Mo...it's time to sign a striker.

[Mrs. Workie]

Did anyone else notice there were two different sets of rules being used last night too? Rules for those wearing red, and rules for the rest?

Koryo and I noticed this...I'm wondering if it was just us??

[bee dubya]

Exactly. We have 2 or 3 really good chances to tie the game, and solid defending by NE stopped that.

NE did defend well but they were also up by a goal, and we'd just scored so the momentum was in our favour. When that happens, teams tend to fall back and defend the lead as a team.

Overall though, NE did play better than us defensively and they only had 3 in the back!

[Roogsy]

Totally! RR, Cunny...and others...were clearly fouled. Shoot...sometimes I thought we had a hockey ref out there. And nothing.

But touch a Revs player? And you heard that friggin' shrill whistle that made me wanna shove it up his ass.

[Boris]

Did anyone else notice there were two different sets of rules being used last night too? Rules for those wearing red, and rules for the rest?

Koryo and I noticed this...I'm wondering if it was just us??

my brother and i were going ape shit and screaming at the tv while watching this game.

The refs were clearly not helping the cause....

[ExiledRed]

Did anyone else notice there were two different sets of rules being used last night too? Rules for those wearing red, and rules for the rest?

Koryo and I noticed this...I'm wondering if it was just us??

No you are definitely correct.

The Revs not only had the advantage because the referees were kissing their nuts, they were playacting for more.

Did you see Parkhurst go down like a pack of cards when Marshall literally brushed him with his arm, then get up and smile about it? shocking.

[Mrs. Workie]

No you are definitely correct.

The Revs not only had the advantage because the referees were kissing their nuts, they were playacting for more.

Did you see Parkhurst go down like a pack of cards when Marshall literally brushed him with his arm, then get up and smile about it? shocking.

That nearly made me sick...I couldn't believe it.

[jimiv]

Just once I would like to see Cunningham do something other then stand around waiting. It appears that he just wants to get 100 by having the ball bounce of him. We should let Chicago have McBride but only if they take Cunningham as well.

[James Oliphant]

Dont let James Oliwhatever hear this! He'll whip out statistics to show you you're wrong!

*sigh*

And for the record, I agree with most of what's said in this thread. About Edwards especially.

[noochie]

Dont let James Oliwhatever hear this! He'll whip out statistics to show you you're wrong!

You do realize that he supports the same team as you do. For the record... in case you forgot:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/supporter

Now, James co-owns and maintains gotorontofc.com. You come on here and bitch about everything and anything that isn't a win. I for one value his opinion over your whining.

[giambac]

Last night, and watching the game back this morning, I am really upset with the lack of effort, or 'not playing to the whistle' by some of our players (especially at some key moments)...

Brian Edwards: Earlier this year Carver ripped Edwards for his attitude in training, took a start away from him, and the message was hopefully sent.

Last night Edwards GAVE UP on two live balls, and both ended up in the back of our net...

1st goal - a beautiful cross that's knock on by the head. The instant it beats Edwards he stands flat footed, looks to the sky and says "I was beaten, 1-nil". Uh hello son, the ball hit the post and bounced right back out. Ralston runs in a taps it in. Had Edwards not given up on the ball, he had an excellent chance of beating Ralston to the ball, or diving infront of the 2nd shot. Getting beat happens, but it shouldn't happen for lack of effort or attitude...

Unfortunately, he's not the only one who gave up on the play... Jim Brennan does the exact same thing. The instant the ball beats Edwards he goes flat footed and his body language is saying "f***, 1-nil". The he sees the ball hit the post - one problem, Ralston is going full stride and beats him to the ball...

Guys can't be giving up on live balls. Think about it this way in terms of effort. Ralston never stops running during the play. Watch the overhead replay. The ball beats Edwards, he keeps running, and becuase of that he easily blows by Brennan and beats Edwards for an easy tap in. He scored purely on effort, and out-working are boys...

The 2nd goal, when the ball initially hits the crossbar, Edwards does the exact same thing - now on this play, it wouldn't have mattered. But you'd think, after allowing a goal because you gave up on a play earlier, that you wouldn't do it again...

I don't want to be overly-critical (as fans we sometimes are), but to lose 2-1 to NE because two of our players gave up on a ball is very frustating...

The team as a whole defintely DID NOT give up. Down 2-nil to the class of the league, we battled to a 2-1 loss, with chances to tie. That can be seen a 'positive loss' in many ways. But to have a goal scored because guys gave up on a play - thats just not a good enough effort...

Carts...



Blame Carver for the 2 points we lost against KC last week when he didn't use 5 starters who were back from international duties.

Blame Carver for using a 3 string golie named Edwards yesterday rather than Sutton who has probaly been our MVP this year. Thanks to Carver we lost 3 points yesterday.

Thanks to Carver we lost 5 points in the last 2 games and have all the other teams in the East closing ground on us very quickly.

[ExiledRed]

^^Oh yawn.

We played better yesterday than we did against LA, and we didn't 'lose' three points, we just didnt pick up 3 points that were highly contested. It's not like they are automatically 'ours'

The revs were the better team, and the officiating was so biased it looked suspicious. The game was a write off from the start.

If you really thought those 3 points were there for the taking, then you're as blind as anybody else on the board.

[giambac]

^^Oh yawn.

We played better yesterday than we did against LA, and we didn't 'lose' three points, we just didnt pick up 3 points that were highly contested. It's not like they are automatically 'ours'

The revs were the better team, and the officiating was so biased it looked suspicious. The game was a write off from the start.

If you really thought those 3 points were there for the taking, then you're as blind as anybody else on the board.

So according to you why even show up for the road games if it a writeoff from the start?

[Mrs. Workie]

Blame Carver for the 2 points we lost against KC last week when he didn't use 5 starters who were back from international duties.

A few of them who arrived back in Toronto THAT MORNING? Would you want to play after that?



Blame Carver for using a 3 string golie named Edwards yesterday rather than Sutton who has probaly been our MVP this year. Thanks to Carver we lost 3 points yesterday.

Uhh, last I checked, Brian was our back up- making him 2nd string- but what do I know.

And honestly, I'd rather rest Sutton for Tuesday. Right now, I'd say winning the Canada Cup is what we should be concentrating on.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Did anyone else notice there were two different sets of rules being used last night too? Rules for those wearing red, and rules for the rest?

Koryo and I noticed this...I'm wondering if it was just us??


The Refs did seem a bit one sided on calls/cards, but thats not what lost us the game, the defence nned to step up a notch or two

[ExiledRed]

The Refs did seem a bit one sided on calls/cards, but thats not what lost us the game, the defence nned to step up a notch or two

Blowing jimmy offside when he wasn't, lost us the game, that was a cut and dried goal.

[ExiledRed]

So according to you why even show up for the road games if it a writeoff from the start?

Well, we'd like them to show up at BMO wouldn't we? it would be polite.

Say the revs come here and we beat them 2-1 after a hard fought game. Will it be because Toronto were the better team or because Steve Nicol fucked up?

[giambac]

A few of them who arrived back in Toronto THAT MORNING? Would you want to play after that?




Uhh, last I checked, Brian was our back up- making him 2nd string- but what do I know.

And honestly, I'd rather rest Sutton for Tuesday. Right now, I'd say winning the Canada Cup is what we should be concentrating on.

Sutton should have played last week (he didn't play for Canada), he should hav eplayed last night, he should play Tuesady and he should play the majority of the games.

It seems Carver is punishing him for honouring his dutie sto the country.

When I said Edwrds was a3rd string goalie I was being sarcatic. I know he is our #2 but in my opinion he is no better tahn a # 3 goalie that should probaly be playing in a beach soccer league. Plain and simple He sucks.

[ExiledRed]

Sutton should have played last week (he didn't play for Canada), he should hav eplayed last night, he should play Tuesady and he should play the majority of the games.

It seems Carver is punishing him for honouring his dutie sto the country.

When I said Edwrds was a3rd string goalie I was being sarcatic. I know he is our #2 but in my opinion he is no better tahn a # 3 goalie that should probaly be playing in a beach soccer league. Plain and simple He sucks.

He doesnt suck, his positioning is usually excellent and his ball distribution is actually better than Sutton's.

Sutton has the ability to produce gamesaving stops, and you are right, he should have played yesterday, considering the revs always look to score a few goals and dont play so defensively, when they dont have to.

[noochie]

Blame Carver for the 2 points we lost against KC last week when he didn't use 5 starters who were back from international duties.

Blame Carver for using a 3 string golie named Edwards yesterday rather than Sutton who has probaly been our MVP this year. Thanks to Carver we lost 3 points yesterday.

Thanks to Carver we lost 5 points in the last 2 games and have all the other teams in the East closing ground on us very quickly.

Pretty sure we owe the loss to those on the field. Your post reminded me of this:

5G4O5AMSevc

[James Oliphant]

^
Why is it that people are only reminded of Cher during Pride Week?

[Mrs. Workie]

^
Why is it that people are only reminded of Cher during Pride Week?

i think you answered your own question James :D

[Derko]

Blame Carver for the 2 points we lost against KC last week when he didn't use 5 starters who were back from international duties.

Blame Carver for using a 3 string golie named Edwards yesterday rather than Sutton who has probaly been our MVP this year. Thanks to Carver we lost 3 points yesterday.

Thanks to Carver we lost 5 points in the last 2 games and have all the other teams in the East closing ground on us very quickly.

Agreed that Sutton should have been on the pitch last night, I ask you this, was Edwards a 3 string goalie when he had 2 clean sheets?
Yes he should have saved the first goal, the second would not have saved by many a keeper, by the way Sutton has let in his fair share of stoppable goals, The truth is our defence was lacking in effort on both of the goals.

Just one more comment, I think we all agree that Cunningham has become a very lazy player, Dichio is good for 45-55 minutes, we do need that class striker A.S.A.P.

As I said in your last very negative thread about the K.C. game, you would be praising Carver if TFC would have won the match after making the subs in the second half, I didn't notice a response to my comment in the K.C. thread, I must have been right. Just my observations as I was waiting for a negative comment. Guess I was right!!

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Blame Carver for the 2 points we lost against KC last week when he didn't use 5 starters who were back from international duties.

Blame Carver for using a 3 string golie named Edwards yesterday rather than Sutton who has probaly been our MVP this year. Thanks to Carver we lost 3 points yesterday.

Thanks to Carver we lost 5 points in the last 2 games and have all the other teams in the East closing ground on us very quickly.


your just pissed cause TFC doesn;t have an italian manager,just what MLS nees a boring dull defensive manager....no thanks.

[Bars92]

England has an Italian manager..

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

England has an Italian manager..


they are doomed as well...at least this time they will have an excuse for not preforming well....;)

[Lucky Strike]

Last night, and watching the game back this morning, I am really upset with the lack of effort, or 'not playing to the whistle' by some of our players (especially at some key moments)...

Brian Edwards: Earlier this year Carver ripped Edwards for his attitude in training, took a start away from him, and the message was hopefully sent.

Last night Edwards GAVE UP on two live balls, and both ended up in the back of our net...

1st goal - a beautiful cross that's knock on by the head. The instant it beats Edwards he stands flat footed, looks to the sky and says "I was beaten, 1-nil". Uh hello son, the ball hit the post and bounced right back out. Ralston runs in a taps it in. Had Edwards not given up on the ball, he had an excellent chance of beating Ralston to the ball, or diving infront of the 2nd shot. Getting beat happens, but it shouldn't happen for lack of effort or attitude...

Unfortunately, he's not the only one who gave up on the play... Jim Brennan does the exact same thing. The instant the ball beats Edwards he goes flat footed and his body language is saying "f***, 1-nil". The he sees the ball hit the post - one problem, Ralston is going full stride and beats him to the ball...

Guys can't be giving up on live balls. Think about it this way in terms of effort. Ralston never stops running during the play. Watch the overhead replay. The ball beats Edwards, he keeps running, and becuase of that he easily blows by Brennan and beats Edwards for an easy tap in. He scored purely on effort, and out-working are boys...




Spot on. Exactly my thoughts. Edwards should have sprinted towards that first goal ball if only on the slim hope he can stop it or pressure the opponent into shanking the shot. I'm really disappointed in Edwards for that one.

[mighty_torontofc_2008]

Blowing jimmy offside when he wasn't, lost us the game, that was a cut and dried goal.

off course it was...but the refs were out to lucnch from the KO....but don't get much help either from the CSA refs who do the MLS games up here on occassion, they have been absent lately, did they get the sack?

[Stencils]

Edwards let us down by his lack of experience last night, plain and simple. I hope he learned something from that game.

He could be a great keeper for us with time and experience. I'd rather not drop points, though, because he can't learn from his mistakes.

Sutton'll be back next game for sure.

[ExiledRed]

Edwards let us down by his lack of experience last night, plain and simple. I hope he learned something from that game.

He could be a great keeper for us with time and experience. I'd rather not drop points, though, because he can't learn from his mistakes.

Sutton'll be back next game for sure.

Jesus, poor Edwards.

yes he did fail to go after a ball he probably wouldnt have caught anyway, and yes that was a mistake and yes he's inexperienced, yes Sutton should start the next game.

But Wynne's leaving of defensive holes, Robert's lackadaisical play, and Cunninghams downright uselessness, had much more to do with it.

[Stencils]

Jesus, poor Edwards.

yes he did fail to go after a ball he probably wouldnt have caught anyway, and yes that was a mistake and yes he's inexperienced, yes Sutton should start the next game.

But Wynne's leaving of defensive holes, Robert's lackadaisical play, and Cunninghams downright uselessness, had much more to do with it.

There were other issues. Just commenting about Edwards performance since that seemed to be the thrust of this thread. Plus, if you've read my other posts on the topic of Edwards, it's very clear that I'm a big supporter of him and his development.

[James Oliphant]

Spot on. Exactly my thoughts. Edwards should have sprinted towards that first goal ball if only on the slim hope he can stop it or pressure the opponent into shanking the shot. I'm really disappointed in Edwards for that one.

What's even more disappointing is that he did it again, when the ball hit the crossbar before the second goal.

Gotta learn from your mistakes, Brian. That's what being a rookie is all about.

I think the kid has a great future, but these mistakes have to disappear first. Very fundamental stuff here.

[ExiledRed]

^^Young goalkeepers are mistake prone, just ask Greg Sutton how his first attempt at breaking into MLS went. The best goalies are usually the older ones in the grand scheme of things, and even they make brutal mistakes.

The fact that Edwards is as good as he is at this age, is positive, but he's had his time now and has hopefully learned some valuable lessons.

[Carts]

[quote=ExiledRed;67988The fact that Edwards is as good as he is at this age, is positive, but he's had his time now and has hopefully learned some valuable lessons.[/quote]

Exiled, I agree with you here... And, although very critical of Edwards in my initial post (I was all piss and vinegar at the time) I didn't want this to become a piss on Edwards thread...

But, I think the dissapointing thing with his play wasn't that he made 'rookie mistakes' it was more that he had 'poor effort or attitude' when the ball beat him (even though it didn't end up in the net)...

I fully expect him to make rookie mistakes, all part of earning your stripes and becoming a top quality tender which he is on his way to becoming if the effort is there...

You can NEVER give up on a live ball... That is something Sutton, Carver, and the boys must stress to him... That first goal he gave up on initially, had he not, it might have been stopped - and that small "might have been stopped" is enough to make the effort...

And giving up is not on him alone (although being the tender, its easier to see)... Brennan gave up on the live ball in the first goal, and as people pointed out in the thread, others weren't back there doing everything possible to keep the ball out...

NE had a 'full defensive effort' when they cleared the line. Everyone was back, their tender was scrambling until the bitter end. That is what's needed...

Carts...