Aron Winter to TFC

[TFC The Hague]

Good morning from the Netherlands! It's all over the soccer news, this morning, so it's official: Aron Winter will be TFC's TD and Manager. He'll bring Bob de Klerk (former Ajax Academy assistant) along, while Paul Mariner steps in as first team coach/assistant coach.

Winter krijgt een dubbelfunctie bij Toronto FC
FC Toronto heeft Aron Winter gekozen als nieuwe technisch directeur. De oud-international krijgt daarnaast het eerste elftal van de Canadese club onder hoede. Toronto FC was op zoek naar iemand die zowel het technisch beleid als de hoofdmacht voor zijn rekening wilde nemen. Bekendheid met de Ajax-cultuur en speelstijl was een belangrijk onderdeel van de sollicitatie. 'Dan zijn ze bij mij aan het goede adres', zei Winter in De Telegraaf. De 43-jarige oud-international rekende af met de concurrentie van voormalige Engelse spits Paul Mariner en tekent een dezer dagen voor drie jaar bij Toronto FC. 'Ik ben vorige week twee dagen bij de club langs geweest en hield daar direct een goed gevoel aan over', zei Winter. 'Zij ook want ik was nog niet terug of ik werd al teruggebeld. Van de drie kandidaten maakte ik de beste indruk. Rond de jaarwisseling is alles rondgekomen.' Winter staat bij de club uit de Major League Soccer voor het eerst op eigen benen als hoofdcoach. Bob de Klerk, die bij Ajax de A1 onder zijn hoede had, gaat mee als rechterhand.
(Source: Voetbal International, VI.nl)

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:

Winter gets a double feature at Toronto FC

Aron Winter Toronto FC has chosen as the new technical director. The former national team player will also have the first team under his wing. Toronto FC was looking for someone who is both the technical strategy as the main force on his behalf wanted. Familiarity with the Ajax playing style and culture was an important part of the application. "They've come to the right place, " said Winter in Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf. The 43-year-old charged with international competition from former England striker Paul Mariner and was chosen a few days ago. He will sign a 3-year contract with TFC. "I was at the club last week for two days and immediately had a good feeling", said Winter. "The feeling was mutual since they called back before was back in Amsterdam. Of the three candidates, I was chosen and just around New Year's everything was worked out."Bob de Klerk, Winter's assistant at the Ajax Academy, will be his right hand man.

[CretanBull]

If we end up playing anything like and/or developing players like Ajax this will be a great move!

[Keystone FC]

The Bootiful game is coming to TFC.

Here's his wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aron_Winter

'He was born to a Muslim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim) father and a Jewish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish) mother.'
So he should be able to handle ANY type of infighting. ;)

It also looks like he has been in just about every soccer situation you can think of as a player. With that type of knowledge he should be able to prep the boys throughly.

[Nestease]

Nothing in English yet, but here are all the reports from abroad:


http://www.vi.nl/Nieuws-item/192768/Winter-krijgt-een-dubbelfunctie-bij-Toronto-FC.htm

http://www.soccernews.nl/news/110245/FC_Toronto_benoemd_Winter_als_trainer_en_technisch _directeur

http://www.fcupdate.nl/voetbalnieuws/165875/winter-wordt-manager-van-toronto-fc/

http://www.goal.com/nl/news/1068/noord-amerika/2011/01/03/2287502/aron-winter-krijgt-dubbelrol-bij-fc-toronto

http://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/site/nieuws/153386/Winter_wordt_grote_man_bij_FC_Toronto.html

http://www.elfvoetbal.nl/nieuws/118873_winter-in-canada-technisch-directeur-en-trainer

http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/voetbal/8634577/__Winter_TD_bij_FC_Toronto__.html?sn=voetbal

http://www.nu.nl/sport/2414167/winter-slag-in-canada.html

http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/4164/EREDIVISIE/article/detail/1787815/2011/01/03/Trainers-carrousel-in-top-van-Ajax.dhtml

http://www.sportdome.nl/Nieuws/24882-Winter-technisch-directeur-bij-Toronto-FC.html

http://www.brabantsdagblad.nl/sport/7901425/Winter-gaat-Toronto-FC-trainen.ece

http://www.ajaxshowtime.com/voetbalnieuws/48118/toronto-fc-introduceert-ajax-wijze.html


Key quotes and points:

- Toronto FC have chosen Aron Winter as a new technical director and head coach.

- "Of the three candidates, I made the best impression"

- Paul Mariner was one of the other candidates.

- Three year deal



- He was at the club last week for 2 days.

- Bob de Klerk is joining him as his assistant.

- He's flying into Toronto again today (Monday).

[manic.street.preacher]

beat me to it! ... this is fantastic news, a little culture injection from Ajax can do nothing but good :)

[razor787]

Wonder what it is that Mariner is doing. I dont know much about him. How is he? Think he was a great choice, or is Mariner a better pick?

[TFC The Hague]

As a Dutchy I'd say he's a very smart pick. Very intelligent, hard working, smart and soccer savvy. As a player very versatile (useful anywhere in midfield and occasional at right back), always hard working and serving his team. Not very outspoken, but a silent leader. Was cap record holder (84 caps) with the Dutch MNT for some time.

As head coach he's unproven, but he's an Ajax man -and as said- very smart. He might even be a better TD then a coach, but with Cochrane, De Klerk and Daso he'll have enough good guys around him to show him the ropes of MLS-'wules and wegulations'. I guess most of on-field training will be done bij Daso and De Klerk, with Winter moving into a Wenger-like Managers role.

If he's smart btw, he'll take Bas Ent with him from de Dutch Lions. He's good friends with Sonny Silooy (Lion's coach), so there will be some phone calls about Ent's qualities, I guess.

[razor787]

So basically we have no idea how he is going to perform? Having our assistant coach teaching the new head coach the rules sounds silly to me. What about De Klerk. Much known about him?

[TFC The Hague]

Well, MLS is a strange place of rules, compared to Europe. So he'll need some teaching, but Cochrane will handle that.
As said, he's unproven as a head coach at the highest level, but very experienced in the Ajax system already (bot as assistand and as an Academy Coach).
De Klerk is the unknown figure, but an Ajax man as well (experienced youth coach, his trustee at the Ajax Academy).

Bottom line is: Winter knows the drill. He played Serie A soccer (in a midfield setup with Paul Gascoigne amongst others) for years, so soccer holds no secrets for him. In Holland he's regarded as a very smart, likable and savvy guy. He's the exact opposite of Ruud Gullit, who turned out to be a bad manager and his own stumble block.

[denime]

Thanks For The News !

[Luanda]

R E A L G O O D!

[Shakes McQueen]

I love this pick!

He comes from a club with a good history of developing talent and on-pitch success, and a position where he would be spending lots of time in a development role, but also a tactical one.

So does this mean Cochrane is staying on to balance the books (so to speak), while Winter does the rest? I'd be okay with that arrangement.

Really happy with this choice. They didn't kowtow to the dummies who just wanted TFC to hire a name they would immediately recognize for massive money (the dumb, bombastic choice), and they didn't go for another MLS retread (the lame, cheap choice).

He was a good player, who has also put in the time proving himself in a managerial role. Adjusting to the litany of MLS rules will be a challenge for him (as it is for all Euros I'm sure), but an MLS veteran like Cochrane would probably help him navigate those waters.

- Scott

[ensco]

Whoa. Whoa.

OK stream of consciousness reaction...

I LOVE the focus on youth and developing young players that this hire implies. This is a trained teacher, a guy that can build an academy and offer kids something unique.

I like his youth (that is a bit of a problem with Mariner).

I don't like his unfamiliarity with MLS or NCAA.

Winter did not pick Cochrane and Daso, they were put to him. Sigh. I especially don't like the implied massive reliance on Cochrane that goes along with this.

What are the odds Winter doesn't get bummed out quickly?

Klinsmann may have had a role in finding this guy and/or landing him.

[CretanBull]

So basically we have no idea how he is going to perform? Having our assistant coach teaching the new head coach the rules sounds silly to me. What about De Klerk. Much known about him?

Holland in general and the Ajax system in particular produces some of the most technically sound players in the world. It might take awhile, but he'll have us playing a team game, he'll reintroduce our players to the basics (which is often what NCAA players lack the most), our positional play will improve, our off the ball movement will improve, our footy iq and fundamentals will improve.

A guess on my part, but I think he'll play a 4-4-2 with two holding midfielders in the middle, one more defensive and the other a deep lying playmaker...he'll get the most out of jdg.

[scut farkus]

According to Kristian Jack on Twitter:

Kristian Jack (http://twitter.com/#!/KristianJack/status/21909367108403200)
Winter who has been an assistant at Ajax for 5 years will take the reigns as head coach, working alongside Paul Mariner. #tfc

Winter AND Mariner?!

[razor787]

With the lack of freaking out, I'm going to change my position. Sounds like the right call was made for once. Especially if we got both Winter and Mariner. Will be interisting to see how we do next year. Can't wait to see the new TFC style

[Brooker]

According to Kristian Jack on Twitter:

Kristian Jack (http://twitter.com/#!/KristianJack/status/21909367108403200)
Winter who has been an assistant at Ajax for 5 years will take the reigns as head coach, working alongside Paul Mariner. #tfc

Winter AND Mariner?!


http://bukk.it/celebration.gif

[[NBF]]

Beat That!

http://image24.webshots.com/25/5/76/26/2766576260074746326oMmXul_ph.jpg

[Kaz]

Does that mean Mariner is being brought in as GM?

That is going to be an interesting arrangement...

Will look forward to hearing the press announcement.

[razor787]

I read somewhere a day or so ago that mariner was being brought in as the assistant coach. Many assumed that meant nichol was coming. Looks as if he is assistant, but not with Nichol.

[scooter]

finally some good news

[Pookie]

Re: Mariner

Former Ipswich Town star Mariner to take Toronto FC job

Ex-Plymouth Argyle and Ipswich Town striker Paul Mariner is expected to take the Toronto FC coaching job.

The independent Ipswich Town website, twtd.co.uk, suggests that Mariner has left his coaching job with League One club Plymouth to take the role at Toronto.

The Canadian club parted ways with Preki Radosavljevic in September, brining in Nick Dasovic as caretaker for the remainder of the 2010 season.

And now it seems that Mariner, who has extensive experience with US soccer, will be the man to step into the role ahead of their 2011 campaign.

http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/former-ipswich-town-star-mariner-take-toronto-fc-job-1359481

[Globetrotter]

Just because someone knows soccer, doesn't mean they know MLS. We're a little bit different over here.

[Shakes McQueen]

According to Kristian Jack on Twitter:

Kristian Jack (http://twitter.com/#!/KristianJack/status/21909367108403200)
Winter who has been an assistant at Ajax for 5 years will take the reigns as head coach, working alongside Paul Mariner. #tfc

Winter AND Mariner?!

Wow, even better!

- Scott

[ensco]

We need a list of everyone who is out of contract (or available) who played at Ajax or Plymouth in the last couple of years.

[torontocelt]

I have to admit I like the sound of this management / coaching team a lot better now. Winter will have extensive links at some of the best clubs in the world and to have another guy from the Ajax academy is a great move. I am unsure how loan deals would work in the MLS but hopefully we can get some of the younger players over here to help with squad depth. Failing that then perhaps we can catch some of the guys who do not make it at Ajax, that would be a real plus if this fitted in with the crazy MLS rules. I really hope we do not go down the road of having Mariner and Winter as head coaches, there should only ever be room for one in my opinion with the other as assistant. On another note Winter played as a defensive midfielder, will this dictate his outlook on how the team plays? If so then this will not be in favor with a lot of TFC fans who did not like Preki's teams.

[Nuvinho]

I am a huge dutch fan and Aron Winter was one of my favourite players back in the day. I am happy he is here, but I don't know how he'll do. I guess that's why Mariner was also brought in, as he will help Winter with the ins and outs of MLS.

[TFC The Hague]

If you're familiar with the Ajax Style you know that will NEVER be the case. The Ajax Style tries to operate as a 4-3-3 system with one of the center backs sometimes playing up front as a DM, which means that you shift between 4-3-3 and 3-4-3. It advocates at least playing up front with one target man and 2 wing men. It would give DeRo the chance to play as a natural 'nr.10' in the Ajax Style, with a free role as Attacking Mid or Back-up striker.

[TFC The Hague]

So the picture is:
Aron Winter - Manager (with Earl Cochrane as his right hand man in the technical positon and Jim Brennan as assistant).
Paul Mariner - field trainer/first team coach?
Nick Dasovic - assistant coach
Bob de Klerk - assistant coach/some academy role (with Jason Bent, Stuart Neely at his side?)

Something like this?
Question: who'll coach the team during matches? The manager or the field trainer? My guess is Winter, but that would drop Dasovic two places in the hierarchy...

[wzhxvy]

I do not know the two Dutch additions at all but I do like the fact it appears we are bringing in a team with different specialities and it almost looks like (fingers crossed) that we have a plan...

[TFC/Everton]

Wow, I guess they've been working on this for awhile. Good crew of coaches!!! I like!!!!

I have goosebumps!!! :)

Finally some good news coming from TFC!!!

[billyfly]

Whoopee must be happy.

[billyfly]

Why isn't this thread with a thousand posts already?

Why hasn't BGNEWF not said anything about "I'll believe it when it's official"...lol

[Section 117]

So TFC is starting the year on a great note. Here is to a fantastic 2011

[Nuvinho]

I guess we'll start to see an influx of dutch players - Bas Ent starting off?

[TFC/Everton]

Although I am glad Daso won't be our head coach, I hope he is respected by these guys. He seems like a players coach, which is important in the dressing room.

LIKE MO BEFORE HIM, THIS DERO MUST GO!!!

[Snowy]

This is shaping up to be some very exciting news. A fresh start with a football management group that is looking like it is being set up with a purpose. I know I'm ready to get behind this, ignore all the negativity, and let the past stay in the past.

The sun is shining!

[wzhxvy]

Although I am glad Daso won't be our head coach, I hope he is respected by these guys. He seems like a players coach, which is important in the dressing room.

LIKE MO BEFORE HIM, THIS DERO MUST GO!!!

I am not concerned about Daso, DD or Brennan. If they fit the plans and can operate under the new leadership great. But lets not keep dead weight around because it will burn us eventually.

As to Dero, lets see how this plays out. He is clearly not a leader, if he can accept playing under this new leadership with no whining, etc, then all for it.

[Detroit_TFC]

A very European set up, impressive. If there is the emphasis on youth development that this set up implies, could pay big dividends in the future. The major question is whether they will get a long enough grace period to make it happen.

[billyfly]

The new TFC training ground may have had an influence of this decision as well.

[Damien]

The Dutch are masterminds at squeezing every drop of talent out of players. I'll be VERY happy if Mariner is 100% confirmed to be involved too.

[Nuvinho]

I can see Daso and DD being kept on. Nowadays, there is a coach for everything. DD can coach the strikers, Daso the midfielders/defenders. As for Jimmy B, don't think he serves a purpose anymore. Earl should be kept on as assitant GM.

[Nuvinho]

Total Toronto Football

[arsenal]

Sounds very promising. Now lets start to see some player signings .... since they supposedly had a number of players lined up waiting for final go ahead from new leadership.

[Nuvinho]

from Ives



After spending most of the off-season without a head coach and permanent technical director, Toronto FC appears ready to finally fill the two vital positions.
According to multiple MLS sources, Toronto is set to name former New England Revolution assistant Paul Mariner as Technical Director and former Dutch national team player Aron Winter as head coach.
There are conflicting reports coming out of Europe that are identifying Mariner as the team's next head coach and Winter as TFC technical director, but sources tell SBI Winter will be the head coach while Mariner oversees personnel management.
Mariner was highly-regarded for his talent scouting ability while New England assistant, and was seen in some circles as one of the best evaluators of college talent in MLS.

[Detroit_TFC]

Well, if Ives is correct, this is back to a more typical MLS set up. Likely to be true, couldn't see Mariner coming back to North America for an assistant job.

[billyfly]

I ask people not get too, too excited. This is Toronto after all and the gods have a way, a certain je ne sais quoi, of pissing on us.

[wzhxvy]

from Ives

Sounds like TFC are establishing more of a "management" team vs. the MO setup. It will be interesting who reports to who in this setup. Is it possible that there is still a President role that is yet to be filled ? or is that Tom ?

[Damien]

So....

GM: Mariner
Assistant GM: Cochrane & Brennan
Coach: Winter
Assistant Coaches: Dasovich, Dichio, DeKlerk, Bent, Neely

[sully]

^^ this is what I've been wondering about..who's doing what? Will the roles be clearly defined? What about the timelines here: Mariner quit his job to take up a new position last week, but the Dutch articles says he was among the 3 candidates that winter was part of. So has there been a change in who's role will be what in the past week since mariner announced in England that he was taking a new job? Who's staying..who's going? Seems like a lot of personal if all will stay...maybe too many chefs...

[billyfly]

A TFC press conf or at least a presser would be nice

[flatpicker]

Things would be a lot clearer if TFC just got their act together and made an official statement.
Seriously, Toronto are always so slow in making announcements.
We should be hearing the news from them, not some google translated Dutch sources.

[flatpicker]

Looks as though we think alike Billy.

[Ajaxjambo]

For what its worth - its already on Winter's wikipedia.

[Nuvinho]

I think either Wednesday or Thursday it will be offically announced at a press conference. People are still on vacation today, don't think anything will happen today.

[flatpicker]

For what its worth - its already on Winter's wikipedia.


There are a gazillion people updating Wiki at all times... there is no surprise there.

[flatpicker]

I think either Wednesday or Thursday it will be offically announced at a press conference. People are still on vacation today, don't think anything will happen today.


It doesn't even have to be a press conference.
Just a statement from the club would be nice.

[Beach_Red]

Sounds like TFC are establishing more of a "management" team vs. the MO setup. It will be interesting who reports to who in this setup. Is it possible that there is still a President role that is yet to be filled ? or is that Tom ?

Probably still Tom A. For now TFC is still a very little brother in the company and probably not big enough to get its own president, but this looks like a natural progression - they started the team with turf, barely any training facilities and a small, inexperienced management team (probably a lot cheaper than what they're paying for management now).

But every year there have been some improvements and that looks to be continuing. Still like Billy says, this is Toronto so we should be very cautious and not expect too much too soon.

[swan]

It doesn't even have to be a press conference.
Just a statement from the club would be nice.

yes this would be very nice

[Technorgasm]

new rumour . . .babel to TFC

[Waggy]

I'm *sniff* I'm, just, so happy! Clearly Klinsmann came through for us on this one. If we can become ANYTHING like Ajax this is AMAZING. And we'll actually be playing attractive football!! In the words of... whoever
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA BABY!


edit: you know it's good knows when- just woke up my roommate screaming T-O-R, O-N-T, OOOOOOOOOOOOO TFC!
I can't believe we got their academy guy too! I hate U2 but I'm about to go BLAST Beautiful Day. I just hope they don't pull the football away at the last second again....

[Whoop]

As much as I like Ajax and Winter was a solid, if not great, contributor to Ajax and the Dutch national team, I'm still not expecting much.

A lot of Ajax greats have coached the youth teams in the past. Some have been able to parlay that experience into more success while others never have ended up amounting to much.

[tfcleeds]

Well, consider me pleasantly surprised. If this is true, this is definitely a step in the right direction for the club.

I personally had no idea what Winter had been up to in his post-playing career, but if he's been involved in the player development at Ajax, this can only be a good thing for our club.

[ManUtd4ever]

The apparent hiring of Aron Winter to work alongside Paul Mariner is a very pleasant surprise and an encouraging development regarding the future of this organization. It seems as though Klinsmann's fingerprints are all over this, which would vindicate MLSE for hiring him as a consultant. I am especially optimistic regarding the inference that Winter and Mariner have several potential player acquisitions lined up once everything is official.

Well done MLSE!

[CretanBull]

from Ives

Let's hope that he's wrong, how insane (and yet tragically typical!) that TFC could get it wrong, even when they're getting it right.

[ensco]

Let's hope that he's wrong, how insane (and yet tragically typical!) that TFC could get it wrong, even when they're getting it right.

Why?

If Ives is right, they're dancing around the title thing a bit....No "General Manager", no "Manager". Which isn't perfect, but is it so terrible?

Even though Mariner is not experienced in a front office role, he is pretty experienced and respected in general. This setup that Ives is calling makes the most sense to me.

In any other setup, Cochrane winds up with too much power, because of Winter's lack of MLS/NCAA knowledge.

Based on the job descriptions as reported by Ives, it's designed to be a triumvirate.

Also the risk of Winter bolting after a brief period, because MLS just doesn't suit him, is high. In this setup, we're not starting all over again, if that happens.

Even though this arrangement wouldn't be perfect (I wish Cochrane weren't being forced on these guys), nothing is. It's not bad.

[Waggy]

Let's hope that he's wrong, how insane (and yet tragically typical!) that TFC could get it wrong, even when they're getting it right.

I trust KJ to have a bit better idea of whats going on at TFC than Ives... I hope anyways. Whatever. I'm not ruining my good mood. It's been a LONG time since there's been real optimism around this club, I'm gonna enjoy this for a bit :flare:

[CretanBull]

^ amen

[denime]

TORONTO SUN
Aron Winter to head up Toronto FC (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/soccer/2011/01/03/16739916.html)


MLS website:
Kick Off: TFC set for Winter move, Benni eyes USA (http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/kick-tfc-set-winter-move-benni-eyes-usa)

[ag futbol]

Just to compare and contrast: It looks like Chivas USA are hiring Robin Fraser as head coach (former RSL assistant). I'd say we did better, but i would have said the same thing last offseason too...

[billyfly]

^From Sun article: "Winter alludes in the reports that he was chosen in part because going forward, the Reds want to emulate the Dutch "Total Football" style that has won so many fans worldwide."

This makes sense since JK said he would ask what style Toronto as a city wanted.

[Skinner]

Wow!

As an optimist, I will say that we just enter the world of....

1. Proper player development
2. Operating with a full management team
3. Attacking total football lineage
4. Proven MLS stewardship

This is good....no?

[Waggy]

^From Sun article: "Winter alludes in the reports that he was chosen in part because going forward, the Reds want to emulate the Dutch "Total Football" style that has won so many fans worldwide."

This makes sense since JK said he would ask what style Toronto as a city wanted.

That part made me make this face


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_I0KlWPiJ0R8/SgVM_OHqVDI/AAAAAAAAADc/7JiF6_nQfc0/s320/noyphh.jpg

[reggie]

somebody on this board mentioned winter about a month ago...

[Azerban]

^From Sun article: "Winter alludes in the reports that he was chosen in part because going forward, the Reds want to emulate the Dutch "Total Football" style that has won so many fans worldwide."

This makes sense since JK said he would ask what style Toronto as a city wanted.

if only we had a team that had even a single soccer brain between them

[Azerban]

i like this move pretty much because it would actually be a move and maybe we'll have a real team with players on it come march

[Detroit_TFC]

The timing is good on this too. Enough lead time to get things together before preseason. Last year's fiasco haunts me.

Edit:
You and me both Azerban

[reggie]

open up that dutch pipe line for players,im sure they can find some cheap diamonds.

[Whoop]

They still better get a move on signing some players....

[torontocelt]

if only we had a team that had even a single soccer brain between them

Agreed. It is easy to say that we would like to play total football but trying to put it into practice with a bunch of players who have proven themselves to be inept at best is a completely different story. If total football was easy then there would be a whole heap of teams better than TFC trying to put that system in place. Winter has a lot of work to do as off the ball positioning and movement has never been a strong point of TFC, sometimes a coach has to take a look at what players can do rather than making them try something that they probably cannot do. Good luck though Winter.

[reggie]

i wonder if they will move the training grounds to AJAX ont...lol

[ManUtd4ever]

Agreed. It is easy to say that we would like to play total football but trying to put it into practice with a bunch of players who have proven themselves to be inept at best is a completely different story. If total football was easy then there would be a whole heap of teams better than TFC trying to put that system in place. Winter has a lot of work to do as off the ball positioning and movement has never been a strong point of TFC, sometimes a coach has to take a look at what players can do rather than making them try something that they probably cannot do. Good luck though Winter.

Well, at the very least, I am sure that the style of football employed at BMO Field this season will be far more entertaining than Prekiball!

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

Wow good stuff. I don't know if any remembers this, but someone posted that Winter was being interviewed in the coaches / Gm thread ages ago - I'm very impressed by some of the insider info. here.

[Gazza]

All of this talk of "total football" makes me wish we didn't get rid of Nick Garcia so prematurely;).

All joking aside, JDG will have no excuses if he under-performs this season. Winter's tactics should benefit Julian immensely.

[torontocelt]

Well, at the very least, I am sure that the style of football employed at BMO Field this season will be far more entertaining than Prekiball!

I'm sure it will be but Winter might find that TFC will not be capable of total football. TFC might have a vastly different first team by the time the season comes though so perhaps he will bring in more capable players. I am sure he has watched more than a few TFC matches though and I am sure he will realise just how poor TFC were last season.

One of the big benefits of the Dutch teams like Ajax that have an academy is that their core of youth players are taught the ins and outs of the game from a very young age. These players know about formations, movement and positioning and they know how to play when they reach the full team. They also have a good first touch and general ball control and that is something that is necessary with pass and move football. The current crop of TFC players have not had the same level of training and that will count against them. Certain skills in football are not just taught over night, it is something that is done over years and that is what happens at teams like Ajax.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

fantastic news, cant wait to find out everyones final positions

[FluSH]

So the picture is:
Aron Winter - Manager (with Earl Cochrane as his right hand man in the technical positon and Jim Brennan as assistant).
Paul Mariner - field trainer/first team coach?
Nick Dasovic - assistant coach
Bob de Klerk - assistant coach/some academy role (with Jason Bent, Stuart Neely at his side?)

Something like this?
Question: who'll coach the team during matches? The manager or the field trainer? My guess is Winter, but that would drop Dasovic two places in the hierarchy...

This is what I would like to know! :D

[Waggy]

Just tossing this out there- not sure how I'd feel about it but now with Winter AND JDG, wouldnt that other DeGuzman have to take a long look at TFC?

[ManUtd4ever]

I'm sure it will be but Winter might find that TFC will not be capable of total football. TFC might have a vastly different first team by the time the season comes though so perhaps he will bring in more capable players. I am sure he has watched more than a few TFC matches though and I am sure he will realise just how poor TFC were last season.

One of the big benefits of the Dutch teams like Ajax that have an academy is that their core of youth players are taught the ins and outs of the game from a very young age. These players know about formations, movement and positioning and they know how to play when they reach the full team. They also have a good first touch and general ball control and that is something that is necessary with pass and move football. The current crop of TFC players have not had the same level of training and that will count against them. Certain skills in football are not just taught over night, it is something that is done over years and that is what happens at teams like Ajax.

Agreed on all points. The good news is that Winter and Mariner will not have to cull the roster first. There are several roster spots to fill effective immediately which will allow them to put their stamp on the club from the outset...

[TFCDP]

Just tossing this out there- not sure how I'd feel about it but now with Winter AND JDG, wouldnt that other DeGuzman have to take a long look at TFC?

Ha.. was just thinking that.

[wzhxvy]

Just tossing this out there- not sure how I'd feel about it but now with Winter AND JDG, wouldnt that other DeGuzman have to take a long look at TFC?

He might but I would say lets get the first JDG performing before we bring another one...

[Super]

Just tossing this out there- not sure how I'd feel about it but now with Winter AND JDG, wouldnt that other DeGuzman have to take a long look at TFC?

He's now playing in the La Liga at Mallorca under Michael Laudrup. I seriously doubt even Winter would be able to bring him to the MLS. Also, unlike Julian, Jonathan is actually wanted overseas. Even if he wanted to come here, he'd probably want a massive DP deal - and right now I think we need to focus on getting a DP striker.

[ensco]

Just tossing this out there- not sure how I'd feel about it but now with Winter AND JDG, wouldnt that other DeGuzman have to take a long look at TFC?

Jonathan has been a stud for Mallorca, eg player of the match against Barca, this from 2 weeks ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKoaInLJnWM

He almost went to Man City. His next move is to a big team.

[ManUtd4ever]

Speaking of a DP striker, maybe Winter can use his influence to lure Ruud Van Nistlerooy to TFC when he's finished with Hamburg...:D

[Yohan]

I wish the roles of each guy gets better defined, but either way, we might be getting best of... three worlds.

Winter and de Klerk to bring in European system
Daso, Cochrane to give input on Canadian players
Mariner to give input on US/NCAA players

So, hopefully there will now be a better push to expand scouting system and we might develop that solid foundation we've been lacking for a long time

[Darlofletch]

alright, well this seems positive.

I'm very interested to see who's going to be in what position. I wonder exactly how long they're going to make us wait for something official.

I think I'd rather have winter involved at the technical director level, influencing the academy and overall direction of the club and mariner and de Klerk as coaches, rather than winter as coach, but I guess we'll see.
I'm guardedly optimistic.

and annoyed that once again, i'm at work when big news goes down.

[Waggy]

Jonathan has been a stud for Mallorca, eg player of the match against Barca, this from 2 weeks ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKoaInLJnWM

He almost went to Man City. His next move is to a big team.

Didn't realize he was having that kind of success. Too bad he's such a twat or I'd be real happy for him


And whatever, I don't want him on the club, just pointing out he's got quite a few connections here now. If he was considering a move west Toronto'd have to be the top of the list. I'll be happy with some good young Dutch talent. Also- I guess this is the end of TFC's use of a player/manager agent as chief scout. Thank god! (Totally forgot the name of the evil agency that took over TFC for a few years)



Edit: Also, as to defined roles, isn't the Ajax system basically you have 3 or 4 footy minds get together and make every decision? They may focus on different areas, like Yohan suggested, but it's very possible the only 'defined' roles would be Winter as the coach on the field and whomever as the guy signing the cheques. Every other decision would be made by the 3 headed monster.

[P-NUTZ]

Not bad.

Now lets get a proper squad assembled sooner than later so they can start practicing together and begin the season with some decent form and attitude.

[ManUtd4ever]

. Also- I guess this is the end of TFC's use of a player/manager agent as chief scout. Thank god! (Totally forgot the name of the evil agency that took over TFC for a few years)


Yes, First Wave will no longer have any influence on club personnel decisions...

[prizby]

I wish the roles of each guy gets better defined, but either way, we might be getting best of... three worlds.

Winter and de Klerk to bring in European system
Daso, Cochrane to give input on Canadian players
Mariner to give input on US/NCAA players

So, hopefully there will now be a better push to expand scouting system and we might develop that solid foundation we've been lacking for a long time

i think when there is an official press conference announcing the hirings, these things will be addressed


i am more interested in what made Winter apply/how he was contacted about the opening...leaving the ajax reserves for this is an interesting change to make; granted, it brings him closer to "home" - Suriname (although I doubt he has lived there in a very long time)...i wonder if he can find some hidden gem from his home country; the next Aron Winter/Edgar Davids

[Ossington Mental Youth]

i think when there is an official press conference announcing the hirings, these things will be addressed

HAHAHA id imagine, we'd be fucked other wise

[Nuvinho]

RVN would be a nice DP signing, but highly doubt it would happen.

[TorCanSoc]

Holy crap. When I read the headline I thought WTF are we going to do with a 40-something midfielder. I remember this guy in the Inter heydeys, with Taribo West, I'm going to say George Weah but I know he played for AC Milan, in that era anyway.

I got hooked on Inter back then because of Winter. He looked like an Indian guy playing in the big leagues, and I wanted to know more.

No idea how he is as a coach. As a player I remember him have very little flair, no nonsense guy, in the midfield. I often felt he didn't want the ball, but I guess he had a role and played it well.

He has the pedigree, lets see if he has the talent to translate the coaching chasm between Europe and MLS.

[zeelaw]

Like the signing, well done Mo...errr.. Earl lol

[Super]

Like the signing, well done Mo...errr.. Earl lol

I'm pretty sure we can thank Klinsmann for this signing.

[daner90]

This sounds promising...

[Azerban]

This sounds promising...

The TFC Way: Cautiously Optimistic

[loconet]

As a long time Barca fan and Ajax sympathizer, I'm very happy about this although it's an interesting setup. I'm curious to see how the coaching team will work together.. hopefully there is a clear plan. Seems like Mariner is being brought in to keep everyone on the same page about the insanity that is MLS rules?

I have to admit, I'm a little excited. The prospect of inserting some dutch footy brain into this club is phenomenal.... please don't fuck it up!!

[jabbronies]

As a long time Barca fan and Ajax sympathizer, I'm very happy about this although it's an interesting setup. I'm curious to see how the coaching team will work together.. hopefully there is a clear plan. Seems like Mariner is being brought in to keep everyone on the same page about the insanity that is MLS rules?

I have to admit, I'm a little excited. The prospect of inserting some dutch footy brain into this club is phenomenal.... please don't fuck it up!!


Sounds like they are going to have a full team up in management. I just hope the guy running the joint will be strong enough to manage all of the pieces.

[jloome]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

No more, no less. I noticed his name a couple of months back while looking up stats on Ronald Koemann and a couple of other prospective coaches from Holland. Struck me as an interesting idea at the time, but the fact that he was coaching youth system was a bit nerve-inducing.

THat hasn't changed; I'm cautiously optimistic. Lots of reasons to think this pair will do a better job than Mo et al. But he's never coached a men's pro team yet, so let's give him some time to get wet feet.

[dupont]

I have to say that at first listen this all sounds very positive and promising. As with anything in sports, the people chosen may not pan out.. but I can't argue that this is a very good attempt at choosing a serious coaching staff no matter how it all pans out.

[Chevy]

I'm cautiously optimistic.

No more, no less. I noticed his name a couple of months back while looking up stats on Ronald Koemann and a couple of other prospective coaches from Holland. Struck me as an interesting idea at the time, but the fact that he was coaching youth system was a bit nerve-inducing.

THat hasn't changed; I'm cautiously optimistic. Lots of reasons to think this pair will do a better job than Mo et al. But he's never coached a men's pro team yet, so let's give him some time to get wet feet.

He's never coached one, and we've never had one. Perfect!!

[jazzy]

I love this pick!

He comes from a club with a good history of developing talent and on-pitch success, and a position where he would be spending lots of time in a development role, but also a tactical one.

So does this mean Cochrane is staying on to balance the books (so to speak), while Winter does the rest? I'd be okay with that arrangement.

Really happy with this choice. They didn't kowtow to the dummies who just wanted TFC to hire a name they would immediately recognize for massive money (the dumb, bombastic choice), and they didn't go for another MLS retread (the lame, cheap choice).

He was a good player, who has also put in the time proving himself in a managerial role. Adjusting to the litany of MLS rules will be a challenge for him (as it is for all Euros I'm sure), but an MLS veteran like Cochrane would probably help him navigate those waters.

- Scott

^perfect

[Roogsy]

^From Sun article: "Winter alludes in the reports that he was chosen in part because going forward, the Reds want to emulate the Dutch "Total Football" style that has won so many fans worldwide."

This makes sense since JK said he would ask what style Toronto as a city wanted.


This is a name and an idea I can get behind! He young and ambitious. Will want to impose himself. Has a proven assistant role at a big club managing egos and talent and that has proven to be able to develop players. The difference between him and Preki will lie in two areas. 1) The style he imposes. That turned off many people last year. And 2) whether he chooses to run this team with a positive, ambitious environment or if he comes in and starts imposing his will on players creating conflict. Coming from Ajax and considering his national team contributions, I am going to hope and assume that it's the latter and we have a gem on our hands. In which case, well done TFC! I won't let myself get too excited, but I have swung over to the positive side of the spectrum finally.

[TFCRegina]

Fucking eh.

[Chewy Unikronik]

So basically we have no idea how he is going to perform? Having our assistant coach teaching the new head coach the rules sounds silly to me. What about De Klerk. Much known about him?

Just because someone knows soccer, doesn't mean they know MLS. We're a little bit different over here.


Stop it...

[jazzy]

Although I am glad Daso won't be our head coach, I hope he is respected by these guys. He seems like a players coach, which is important in the dressing room.

LIKE MO BEFORE HIM, THIS DERO MUST GO!!!

+1....I agree, and depending on his feelings , he can learn from this wonderful dutch infusion....., I think someday he'll be in Van if there's a spot

[CretanBull]

I have to say that at first listen this all sounds very positive and promising. As with anything in sports, the people chosen may not pan out.. but I can't argue that this is a very good attempt at choosing a serious coaching staff no matter how it all pans out.

Exactly, and they get my support for that alone. Who knows if this will work out, but at least it shows that they're willing to be creative and take calculated risks...that's a first.

[Beach_Red]

Although I am glad Daso won't be our head coach, I hope he is respected by these guys. He seems like a players coach, which is important in the dressing room.

LIKE MO BEFORE HIM, THIS DERO MUST GO!!!

Maybe for a little while anyway, we could let the management run the team and not make too many demands about who should be fired and who should be hired.

After the amount of people who demanded DeRo and JDG to be signed by TFC our track record isn't that great... ;)

[Platts]

Quite possibly the best TFC mamagement news i've ever heard. :-)

Winter was the poor man's Rijkaard at Ajax after Rijkaard went to AC Milan with Gullit and Marco vBasten.

if we can begin to play anything like Ajax every young player in north and central america will want to come here. It will make our club wonderful.
Four years in the wilderness, but maybe we see a light on the horizon.

[Nuvinho]

from our favourite site....MLS rumors:



Dutch Lions players will be joining, Dutch Technical Director Winter who will look to implement a Dutch system at TFC. That is according to a source who has kept us up to date with the Orange influence on the Reds starting with the exclusive we got several months ago regarding Bas Ent. (http://www.mls-rumors.net/12244/2010/11/incoming-toronto-fc-sign-dutch-winger-bas-ent/)
Today from our source:

Here is some more info….. I just skyped with sonny silooy, who played with Aron Winter and Bob de Klerk, at Ajax, and are close friends and former teamates…. So Toronto is going for the Dutch system.. Evan Schwartz and Bas Ent former players for the Dutch Lions, under head coach Sonny Silooy, will be at Toronto on the 17th to finalize their positions with the first team squad, and be seen by the new coaches…….

[ManUtd4ever]

In any case, the fact that MLSE poached two key members of the Ajax management team as well as Mariner will provide much needed credibility to the organization moving forward...

[J .]

I think this could be a good signing and there are some positives about the move. But I am going to hold on to my reservations about whoever is in charge until the changes and results begin to come in.

What I dont like the idea of forcing assistants onto the new coach nor foring a GM/tech director the coaching selection. Until there is clarity on who is what, right now there is a lot here that reminds me of Al Davis of the Oakland Raiders and how he forces assistants upon the GM and coach.

In the end, it seems like its a 'name' was hired I suppose but as I said above, I'm neither excited or against the hiring. There is a lot that needs to be done.

[__wowza]

as much as a lot of people would hate to say it (myself included), if these are the names we're looking at:

klinsman came through.

[TFCwestcan]

It totally (no pun intended) makes sense to see Bas Ent come to TFC now that we have the Dutch coaches/director in place. I have to like the experience Mariner brings as well. It seems like they are expanding the FO which is a very good thing. Must say this news is really distracting first day back to work.

[ManUtd4ever]

TFC...TFC...TFC...

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I wonder if we'll see other Dutch players coming to TFC? On loan from Ajax possibly?

[bigtfcfan]

Arjen Robben for DP? :D

[loconet]

Arjen Robben for DP? :D

ha!

let's take it a step at a time, how about an orange 3rd kit? :p

[Detroit_TFC]

With all this I would guess our connections to USL Dayton Dutch Lions may get more substantial.

DDL official website
http://www.dutchlionsfc.com/cms/
DDL supporter blog
http://o10legionnaire.blogspot.com/

How ironic would it be to have a formal link to a club in Ohio...

[TFC The Hague]

I must say, coming from Holland myself, I'm going to support TFC even more with the Winter connection.
Don't expect to have a lot of youth prospects from Ajax on loan soon.
I can see some form of cooperation between Ajax and TFC (Ajax tried to gain some ground in the USA with Ajax Orlando football academy), but Ajax regularly likes to loan it's youth prospects to other clubs in the Dutch major league (Eredivisie).

The Dutch Lions connection will be a lot bigger, I guess. They are alreade cautiously working together with the Crew (though I guess you guess won't like that ;) )

cheers from The Hague

[canucker]

Any idea on the role Mariner will play yet?

[ensco]

All this speculation, and no confirmation, reminds me of an old poem:

Water, water, every where, and all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where, nor any drop to drink.

[Chevy]

Asif's blog up on the TFC site. Nothing substantial in terms of content/info, but FYI.

http://www.goltv.ca/blog/asifhossain/197/

[Azerban]

ha!

let's take it a step at a time, how about an orange 3rd kit? :p

ugh..

[Waggy]

All this speculation, and no confirmation, reminds me of an old poem:

Water, water, every where, and all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where, nor any drop to drink.

It's funny, we get mad at MLSE when they tease us with guys they're 'about' to sign, then we get mad at them for not announcing signings soon enough. I'm glad the organization seems to be showing more professionalism. In the past this might have leaked to the media weeks ago and scuttled the whole negotiation. Let em take as long as they want to announce, it seems like its pretty well done

[rocker]

TFC doesn't have to confirm speculation. Speculation will always precede official announcements. To do it right, you wait until the contracts are signed, travel arrangements are set to bring everyone in, schedule a press conference, send out a teaser release etc. No need to confirm speculation.

I am cautiously optimistic, but as with player signings, it all comes down to results.

[dantdot]

I remember someone mentioning his name last month on the boards, I checked his wiki article then. Can't stop the leaks :p

[Redcoe15]

I'm liking what I'm reading so far. A guy coming from one of the most respected organizations in the world at developing talent, coming to run TFC. I'm expecting a downside, seeing as it's part of a natural reflex in being a TFC fan. But I will be optimistic for now.

And how can this not benefit JDG? If they utilize his talents to the best, LOOK OUT!

[swan]

I'm liking what I'm reading so far. A guy coming from one of the most respected organizations in the world at developing talent, coming to run TFC. I'm expecting a downside, seeing as it's part of a natural reflex in being a TFC fan. But I will be optimistic for now.

And how can this not benefit JDG? If they utilize his talents to the best, LOOK OUT!

i will believe that when i see it..

[Yagbod]

They should bring in Oranjeboom beer to BMO. It went well with my herbal remedies when I was at Euro 2000. Plus, 'Oranjeboom' is just fun to say.

:drinking:

[drewski]

They should bring in Oranjeboom beer to BMO. It went well with my herbal remedies when I was at Euro 2000. Plus, 'Oranjeboom' is just fun to say.

:drinking:


maybe they can sell some stroopwafel's too :D



EDIT: i wonder if TFC continue to suck if fans would then take a cue from Leaf fans and throw stroopwafels on the field :lol:

[wzhxvy]

I am not as excited about a relationship with a USL team...franlkly who cares. I expect much more and hope to see much more from the team that is being created.

[TFCDP]

Its nice that they'll be coming in with basically a clean slate to work on.. Really excited to see what kind of team these guys will put together.. And its nice to now have some decent connections in Europe.
:scarf:

[ensco]

Hmmmm...this is actually a worrying story. A Boston Globe writer says Klinsmann will decide who gets which title. How is that the right answer?

http://www.boston.com/sports/soccer/blog/2011/01/mariner_to_toro.html

[Waggy]

Hmmmm...this is actually a worrying story. A Boston Globe writer says Klinsmann will decide who gets which title. How is that the right answer?

http://www.boston.com/sports/soccer/blog/2011/01/mariner_to_toro.html

Isn't that what he was hired to do? If he wasn't deciding it'd be Cochrane or Anselmi. I'll take my chances with Klinsmann

[Section 117]

Why don't wait to hear what's going to happen before we start jumping to conclusions.

I think the press confrence might be tomorrow afternoon if not Wednesday for sure

[denime]

Isn't that what he was hired to do? If he wasn't deciding it'd be Cochrane or Anselmi. I'll take my chances with Klinsmann

Agree I rather have Klinsmann making decision than Cochrane or Anselmi.

[ensco]

Agree I rather have Klinsmann making decision than Cochrane or Anselmi.

Yes but that's not my point. My point is that this makes no sense, and could be a sign of problems.

TFC are recruiting these guys. The whole setup has to be mutually agreed to in advance. Mariner and Winter would never agree to come here with the issue of title up in the air to be decided by someone else, after they sign.

So what I'm saying is, this Boston Globe story makes me wonder if this group of hires is actually less settled/certain than we think.

[Pigfynn]

I'm just glad they are doing SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

If this is true, I think this could be the beginning of a new and much improved period for TFC and maybe a purging of the "losing culture" that has plagued our club.

The combination of Mariner and Winter seems like it may be a potent mix of skill sets. We shall see I suppose, but I'm hopeful.

[Section 117]

Not for anything what does some guy in Boston know exacty what is happening with TFC anyways??

Until there is an official annoucement. We shoull just sit and wait, you are already starting with the negative shit. Why not just enjoy the moment that we actually hired people with football IQ instead of the sky is falling attitude?

[Code Red]

Wow, I woke up this morning thinking there would be news on the managerial front (call it a premonition or whatever you want)... log on this site... and find out there's activity at HQ.

Quality stuff! Here's hoping TFC finds room for both Winter and Mariner and not just one or the other.

[Waggy]

Yes but that's not my point. My point is that this makes no sense, and could be a sign of problems.

TFC are recruiting these guys. The whole setup has to be mutually agreed to in advance. Mariner and Winter would never agree to come here with the issue of title up in the air to be decided by someone else, after they sign.

So what I'm saying is, this Boston Globe story makes me wonder if this group of hires is actually less settled/certain than we think.


Gotcha. Can't disagree with you, except I doubt it's TFC who is recruiting these guys. I think it's probably Klinsmann and probably been Klinsmann for however long talks have been going on. But ya this is speculating on the speculation of a series of suspected hirings. I guess we prob should wait for some actual news at this point. As long as these guys get pen to paper and become a part of TFC, I could care less what their defined roles are

[ensco]

Not for anything what does some guy in Boston know exacty what is happening with TFC anyways??

Until there is an official annoucement. We shoull just sit and wait, you are already starting with the negative shit. Why not just enjoy the moment that we actually hired people with football IQ instead of the sky is falling attitude?

It's a news story. He's a journalist who knows Mariner. You don't agree with it, it's a free country.

I'd be careful with the rest of it. You are out of line. You clearly know nothing about my "attitude".

[Roogsy]

I'd be careful with the rest of it. You are out of line. You clearly know nothing about my "attitude".

Ensco never gets caught up in the insanity of these boards. I rarely see him get negative (or positive) simply pensive with comments here and there.

[Pookie]

^ pretty short news story... 10 second sound bit?

In fairness, to me, the whole concept seems weird but I'm used to the NA model in which the boss chooses his staff instead of having the staff (who wanted your job) assigned to you (ie. keeping Daso).

Hopefully, they can make it work without an overwhelming amount of politics.

[Ron Manager]

I like this news alot. Sounds like an informed choice. Winter is footy smart and has a great pedigree. I understand peoples concern that he has no head coach experience, but I would think that his current resume plus experience may put him beyond our reach.
I have no problem with hiring a coach who is looking to make his mark when his pedigree suggests a good chance of success. Add to that the fact that he will not be operating in a vacuum, but be surrounded by other members of a management team, this is all very good news and shows that, despite all the knee jerk negativity around here, TFC as a whole operation continues to move in the right direction. (we have already seen this through previous investments in facilities and infrastructure over the past few years.) The on field product certainly has not been there, but hopefully this shift in management is the first step in fielding a properly competitive team that can perform now and develop for the future.
MLSE appears to have gone about this in entirely the right way and made a good decision which was certainly heavily influenced by Klinnsmann (another good MLSE decision it should be added.) Time will tell if Winter has what it takes, but he seems the right kind of guy to give a shot to.
I doubt TFC is likely to be instantly transformed into MLS Cup champ material but the move is positive and should show in on the field improvements soon.
Can't wait to see what players are coming in now......

[ensco]

Ensco never gets caught up in the insanity of these boards. I rarely see him get negative (or positive) simply pensive with comments here and there.

Thank you. Appreciate that.

[Detroit_TFC]

We'll know soon enough. I am a little concerned there's not been a peep from Mariner in the press but it could be that he's out of pocket or won't comment. I don't read too much into it.

[Section 117]

It's a news story. He's a journalist who knows Mariner. You don't agree with it, it's a free country.

I'd be careful with the rest of it. You are out of line. You clearly know nothing about my "attitude".


The part of the negative shit was not directed at you was more of a general comment. I apologize

Back to the Boston reporter, again unless he came out and stated that Marnier told me "...." I really can't see TFc hiring people and them leaving their jobs without a clearly defined role

[Ron Manager]

Yes but that's not my point. My point is that this makes no sense, and could be a sign of problems.

TFC are recruiting these guys. The whole setup has to be mutually agreed to in advance. Mariner and Winter would never agree to come here with the issue of title up in the air to be decided by someone else, after they sign.

So what I'm saying is, this Boston Globe story makes me wonder if this group of hires is actually less settled/certain than we think.


I would think (hope) that this is not because their roles aren't known to them yet so much as it's that it won't be typical MLS setup.

[Beach_Red]

Gotcha. Can't disagree with you, except I doubt it's TFC who is recruiting these guys. I think it's probably Klinsmann and probably been Klinsmann for however long talks have been going on. But ya this is speculating on the speculation of a series of suspected hirings. I guess we prob should wait for some actual news at this point. As long as these guys get pen to paper and become a part of TFC, I could care less what their defined roles are

Yes, it's true, it doesn't really matter to us, but it is very important to get this stuff worked out. We've put up with a dysfunctional FO since the start of the team and everyone has agreed that this decision - who is in the FO and how it's set up - is the most important in the team's short history. It's a turning point and they HAVE to get it right.

So, defined roles is a must, and everyone who signs on has to accept their roles (we just went through this whole thing with DeRo who signed a contract and accepted the promises that it could be renegotiated, we can't have that again with management people). It's always tough to get a group of people working together, especially ambitious people as they need to be to become
winners, so how it gets set up is very important.

But might as well be optimistic, right?

[Pookie]

Maybe Mariner is just coming here to "train"? ;)

[zeelaw]

I'm pretty sure we can thank Klinsmann for this signing.

true

[Waggy]

Yes, it's true, it doesn't really matter to us, but it is very important to get this stuff worked out. We've put up with a dysfunctional FO since the start of the team and everyone has agreed that this decision - who is in the FO and how it's set up - is the most important in the team's short history. It's a turning point and they HAVE to get it right.

So, defined roles is a must, and everyone who signs on has to accept their roles (we just went through this whole thing with DeRo who signed a contract and accepted the promises that it could be renegotiated, we can't have that again with management people). It's always tough to get a group of people working together, especially ambitious people as they need to be to become
winners, so how it gets set up is very important.

But might as well be optimistic, right?


Totally agree on the optimism, disagree on the needing defined roles. I don't follow the Dutch league enough to have real insight into the structure of Ajax but what I have heard of their management system is that basically decisions are made by committee. Get a few good soccer minds together and let them work out what players they want, what players they don't want etc. I know this flies in the face of my anti-mlse rant the other day where I begged them to do things the 'normal' way for once, but I didn't expect they would bring in these kind of soccer minds. If we're going to be getting these guys, and paying all 3 substantial money (which MLSE'd have to be to get them to MLS, Mariner notwithstanding), may as well let them use the management style that they know and that they know works.

[Oldtimer]

Who gets what title is nothing to be concerned about.

What Klinsmann is building is a management group where decisions are made collaboratively. This is, by the way, the opposite of what Anselmi was thinking of when they began the process (being a hockey guy, he's used to one GM in charge), so it's clear that Klinsmann has set the pattern.

This shows great care in building a proper FO. For one, you don't have one guy and his opinions in charge (Mo). You have the wisdom of having several strong football minds working together, much like Vancouver is doing.

You have the European coaching background from one of the strongest clubs in a non "top 3" league. You have the US/NCAA covered with Mariner (and he's considered a bright mind in that respect). Jimmy and Earl know the Canadian player (and Earl knows our academy players). A very good balancing of minds for making the most of potential player resources.

One thing is clear, this is going to cost ML$E a fortune. They are paying big to do things right.

Here's an interesting point: does anyone remember Paul B. being sent to Ajax to tour their academy? Looks to me like TFC is looking to the long term, to build through the academy first, which will be both great for the club and great for Canadian soccer.

One reason not to take seriously the ideas expressed on this board is the number of people who claimed that hiring Klinsmann was a meaningless PR exercise. There is absolutely no way Anselmi came up with this.. it has Klinsmann written all over it, and shows his keen understanding of things. If these moves work, this could be the beginning of something very good, much like DC's dominance of MLS and international competitions from 1996-2006.

[Gazza]

I see nothing negative out of what's alleged to have transpired today. I'd imagine it was Klinsman's call since it was exactly what he and his company was brought in to do.

Being a Toronto sport's fan has made me and many others cynical, but i can't help but feel warm and fuzzy today. Might be my new xmas undies. But if the new culture being brought in is focused on youth development and total football tactics, count me in!

[Pigfynn]

I see nothing negative out of what's alleged to have transpired today. I'd imagine it was Klinsman's call since it was exactly what he and his company was brought in to do.

Being a Toronto sport's fan has made me and many others cynical, but i can't help but feel warm and fuzzy today. Might be my new xmas undies. But if the new culture being brought in is focused on youth development and total football tactics, count me in!

Me too!

:scarf::flare::drum::flare:

[Gazza]

Oh, and ever since i've seen the guy play(one of my favourite non-british players), he has been known to me as Aron "V"inter! Now that he is in the MLS, do we have to pronounce the "W?"

I really don't want to.

[ensco]

I do agree with those who are saying that Klinsmann probably is involved with and/or responsible for in recruiting Winter, and if that turns out to be the case, I will be one of those who was wrong about the depth of TFC's engagement of Klinsmann. Glad to be wrong on that.

As for the titles thing, it may not have to work for us, but it had better work (and be durable) for the people directly involved. Don't forget, confusion about Carver's "Manager" title started almost on his first day, and was an ongoing problem.

[Oldtimer]

Kristian Jack tweet:


Winter to coach; Mariner to do what Mo Johnston used to do.

[ensco]

^Ives can't be beat on this stuff.

I know some people will go nuts over Mariner's lack of executive experience, but I think it's the right way to go.

[Pigfynn]

^YES! This was what I was hoping would be the case

[wzhxvy]

I would agree with the general sentiment that this is a very positive development, very much driven by JK. After some thought, I am less worried about official titles, but I would be worried about leadership (ie who the President is), and the time it will take for this arrangement to become effective. You need time to get to know people, their styles, and develop a working relationship. Sounds like we have many new comers, so will be really interested to see how quickly they make decisions. We have a very good test coming up as they will need to sign a whole lot of players between now and preseason.

[NF-FC]

maybe they can sell some stroopwafel's too :D



EDIT: i wonder if TFC continue to suck if fans would then take a cue from Leaf fans and throw stroopwafels on the field :lol:

I would never waste stroopwafles!

I'm actually eating some right now, thanks for reminding me.

[Pigfynn]

^Ives can't be beat on this stuff.

I know some people will go nuts over Mariner's lack of executive experience, but I think it's the right way to go.

Regardless of experience, we will now have a man in charge that players league wide and beyond will respect and want to come play in his organization, which is something we have never had.

That's huge!

[wzhxvy]

Kristian Jack tweet:

What Mo used to do ???? LOL...I hope not

[Oldtimer]

Dutchman Winter says he's Toronto's new coach



MIAMI (Reuters) -- Former Lazio and Netherlands midfielder Aron Winter has said he will become the new head coach of Major League Soccer's Toronto FC.
Winter, 43, currently on the coaching staff at Ajax Amsterdam, where he began his playing career, told Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf a deal was reached last week.
"I visited the club last week for two days and left with a good feeling. They felt this way as well because before I had returned I got a call. Of the three candidates, I made the best impression. Around New Year everything was concluded," he said.








Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/01/03/winter.toronto/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/01/03/winter.toronto/index.html#ixzz1A0q5o8pb)

[sidvan]

I would never waste stroopwafles!

I'm actually eating some right now, thanks for reminding me.

me too actually - last leftovers from new years

[justin]

What Mo used to do ???? LOL...I hope not

better hope he has a good blackberry plan, because i'm pretty sure 90% of mo's days were filled with texts and phone calls to the tune of

"hey, can you believe they pay me for this? i just have to look busy with this phone and they keep paying me!"

[ensco]

Regardless of experience, we will now have a man in charge that players league wide and beyond will respect and want to come play in his organization, which is something we have never had.

That's huge!

Yes.

Plus there's significant flight risk with someone with Winter's credentials. Of course, the best case is that he succeeds and eventually replaces Mariner, who is 57. But Winter may find MLS very tough going, or he may succeed and get a bigger job in Europe. No matter what happens, TFC are not starting over again if it doesn't work, which would be more of a risk if Winter had the top job.

[Beach_Red]

Yes.

Plus there's significant flight risk with someone with Winter's credentials. Of course, the best case is that he succeeds and eventually replaces Mariner, who is 57. But Winter may find MLS very tough going, or he may succeed and get a bigger job in Europe. If that happens, this way, TFC are not starting over again if he leaves.


Yes, not starting over, that would be huge. This is MLS, we accept that ambitious people are going to move to bigger leagues, but if he leaves with an established team structure in place (and a few trophies - hey let's dream big) it will be money very well spent.

[Oldtimer]

Agreed with Pigyfyn.

TFC's biggest liability was Mo. Players loved the city, loved our support. Mo was widely seen as a shifty character that players wanted to avoid, though, so they wouldn't come. If they were traded here they tried to get out.

Mariner has an excellent reputation, and TFC has become much more attractive as a result of this move.

It's now obvious why Earl dumped the Prekiball players. We won't be seeing that anymore.

[Red Patch CA]

Late Christmas present for me! And it's my birthday today.

I believe we have about 16 players on the roster. Means we can look forward to 14 new players hired under the new regime. Means more time on these boards.:rolleyes:

[69Chevy396]

I like this move. I don't agree with the critics here who worry about lack of mls experience. What precisely does this mean? Mo had a lot of mls experience and he was a disaster. I am glad I renewed my tickets, the team is going to be a lot better this year.

[levyashin]

Every blog says the same thing,alleluia,ALLELUIA!!.Merry christmas and a happy new year.How many peoples lives have changed in such a short time.There is a god they shout.Hope is eternal,bring it on, now are lives are complete.We were blind and now we see.Our saviours have risen.Our team is wholey-------WHOA BOY---DOWN BOY----To much adrenalin at once and you pass out.Calm ,stay calm,chill.

[jazzy]

Who gets what title is nothing to be concerned about.

What Klinsmann is building is a management group where decisions are made collaboratively. This is, by the way, the opposite of what Anselmi was thinking of when they began the process (being a hockey guy, he's used to one GM in charge), so it's clear that Klinsmann has set the pattern.

This shows great care in building a proper FO. For one, you don't have one guy and his opinions in charge (Mo). You have the wisdom of having several strong football minds working together, much like Vancouver is doing.

You have the European coaching background from one of the strongest clubs in a non "top 3" league. You have the US/NCAA covered with Mariner (and he's considered a bright mind in that respect). Jimmy and Earl know the Canadian player (and Earl knows our academy players). A very good balancing of minds for making the most of potential player resources.

One thing is clear, this is going to cost ML$E a fortune. They are paying big to do things right.

Here's an interesting point: does anyone remember Paul B. being sent to Ajax to tour their academy? Looks to me like TFC is looking to the long term, to build through the academy first, which will be both great for the club and great for Canadian soccer.

One reason not to take seriously the ideas expressed on this board is the number of people who claimed that hiring Klinsmann was a meaningless PR exercise. There is absolutely no way Anselmi came up with this.. it has Klinsmann written all over it, and shows his keen understanding of things. If these moves work, this could be the beginning of something very good, much like DC's dominance of MLS and international competitions from 1996-2006.

well spoken....and yes it has to cost big$$$,...so it seems MLSE is in for the long hall???....and it will take a while for the "ajax" skills to take effect in the academy...which is particularly exciting....the only way to build a powerhouse organization......best of all in the future, we can expect competive games :)...

[Pigfynn]

Late Christmas present for me! And it's my birthday today.

I believe we have about 16 players on the roster. Means we can look forward to 14 new players hired under the new regime. Means more time on these boards.:rolleyes:

Happy Bday buddy!

[jazzy]

I see nothing negative out of what's alleged to have transpired today. I'd imagine it was Klinsman's call since it was exactly what he and his company was brought in to do.

Being a Toronto sport's fan has made me and many others cynical, but i can't help but feel warm and fuzzy today. Might be my new xmas undies. But if the new culture being brought in is focused on youth development and total football tactics, count me in!

but now shouldn't our recruitment demand a more intelligent/team player instead of say straight ahead skilled/talented one??....and does this demand a refocusing of the present core and their value to the team?.....we'll need patience, which I have no problem with

[jvanpeebles]

Now make my dream come true and bring me van Nistlerooy.

[dupont]

One of my biggest complaints about TFC last season was how boring it was to watch Preki's style of play. Win or lose - boring.
At least next season should be more entertaining if nothing else!

[Blowing Bubbles]

I love it ..... we're finally freed from British tyranny

[__wowza]

^ didnt you see the game we had against the fire?

[Blowing Bubbles]

On another note Winter played as a defensive midfielder, will this dictate his outlook on how the team plays? If so then this will not be in favor with a lot of TFC fans who did not like Preki's teams.

Come on son !

You think there's a correlation with a players position and how he approaches coaching?

I can assure you there's no study that validates that. And if you want anecdotal just watch Mancini hehe

[jloome]

Thank you. Appreciate that.

I hear he works for the feds though, so he must be an evil bastard!

[jloome]

I like this move. I don't agree with the critics here who worry about lack of mls experience. What precisely does this mean? Mo had a lot of mls experience and he was a disaster. I am glad I renewed my tickets, the team is going to be a lot better this year.

Apples and oranges. Mo had playing experience and six games, total, as manager of New York. He didn't have front office experience.

But Mo also came with a history of baggage. Winter's quite the opposite, a long-time model pro. The question, making the transfer from academy to pros, is whether he can command the dressing room, motivate, and instill some fear when necessary.

We don't know that, so it's entirely sensible for people to be somewhat reserved.

[ensco]

I wonder if this all means that Klinsmann is staying involved.

I mean, would these guys come if he weren't?

[Oldtimer]

Come on son !

You think there's a correlation with a players position and how he approaches coaching?

I can assure you there's no study that validates that. And if you want anecdotal just watch Mancini hehe

... or Preki. He was a very attack-minded striker.

[Pookie]

Mariner has an excellent reputation, and TFC has become much more attractive as a result of this move.


In addition to what it could be like to play in Toronto for these guys, don't forget that the main goal of a player in a developmental league is to move on to bigger things.

This management group seemingly would have connections to make things happen without an agent creating a mess.

[denime]

On another note Winter played as a defensive midfielder, will this dictate his outlook on how the team plays? If so then this will not be in favor with a lot of TFC fans who did not like Preki's teams.

With that logic,Preki was a forward and Prekiball would be offensive football,no?

I remeber only one game under Preki were we played offensive and that was 1st game in CCL group stage.

Winter is Ajax player and coach,his style will be "hopefully" Ajax 4-3-3 from youngest kids in the academy program all the way to the reserve team,everybody plays same system no matter who is the head coach,and I really hope TFC will implement that philosophy.

[TFCRegina]

I wonder if this all means that Klinsmann is staying involved.

I mean, would these guys come if he weren't?

Possibly. The NASL was a breeding ground for a lot of top managers of England. These guys may be looking to MLS to kickstart their management careers before returning home to Europe.

[bigtfcfan]

Does winter speak english?

[Big Bruva]

I am a huge dutch fan and Aron Winter was one of my favourite players back in the day. I am happy he is here, but I don't know how he'll do. I guess that's why Mariner was also brought in, as he will help Winter with the ins and outs of MLS.

This is a quality decision. Winter was one of Hollands best players and comes from the Ajax system meaning his football philosophy will serve TFC very well and he will look to get certain style players in.

Now i believe you will see a difference.

[Nuvinho]

4-2-3-1 formation maybe?....now we just need to find a 1.

Wouldn't Sam Cronin look good alongside JDG....damn you Preki.

[ManUtd4ever]

So, according to Yves Galarcep and Kristian Jack, Paul Mariner will be the Technical Director and Aron Winter will be the Coach. I believe this absolutely makes sense given Mariner's familiarity with the NCAA and MLS. The individual attributes and combination of expertise they offer can be a tremendous benefit to the organization provided they share a similar philosophy and vision in working towards a common goal...

[Pookie]

All the questions, brought to you by Youtube:

Will TFC fans and Winter start off on the right foot:

QJ882QYzr-M

Can Winter and Mariner actually communicate on the same page? Will Winter need help understanding "English English"?

3pTXi9Z2AYA

Will this be part of the presser?

_5DZexDYyuU

[Stryker]

I don't have any idea who Winter is or know a thing about Dutch football aside from how well their national team has played the last 4 years.
I'll assume from everyone elses reaction though this is a good hiring and look forward to some long overdue success in the future.

[Yohan]

Apples and oranges. Mo had playing experience and six games, total, as manager of New York. He didn't have front office experience.

But Mo also came with a history of baggage. Winter's quite the opposite, a long-time model pro. The question, making the transfer from academy to pros, is whether he can command the dressing room, motivate, and instill some fear when necessary.

We don't know that, so it's entirely sensible for people to be somewhat reserved.
I do think that players like to work under managers who has played the game and can relate to that experience

I think Daso gets a lot of love because he's played the game for a long time

Mariner and Winter both has good player resume at highest level, so should be able to command a lot of respect from bunch of MLSers

MoJo has his playing experience, but he is a snake after all

[ag futbol]

I actually like that he was a DM, it would concern me if he was a Striker like Johnston was. Those guys almost never make good coaches. They don't understand the game as well as the other players on the field and they take for granted how hard some guys have to work to get things done because they are naturally talented. ("my lazy former striker coach rant" copyright 2007)

[ArmenJBX]

From RedNationOnline:


Aron Winter’s imminent appointment as head coach of Toronto FC throws the doors of change wide open for The Reds. Winter, a former Netherlands international, who recorded 84 caps to his name, brings with him a wealth of know-how and experience. His managerial career with Ajax’s academy - one of the world’s most famous academy systems – brought about a wave of success for Dutch football, both domestically in Ajax as well as internationally for Holland. Now Toronto FC fans are about to experience a slice of oranje for themselves.

Winter Could Bring Total Change to TFC (http://www.rednationonline.ca/Winter_could_bring_total_change_to_TFC_january_3_1 1_column.shtml)

[tfc2008]

I think wrong information boys because Aron dont come allone, he bring Bob de Klerk with him as his assistent




Aron Winter next TFC head coach: Reports

Published On Mon Jan 3 2011

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http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/f2/81/78e1c6e44eba9632f5ced10330ba.jpeg (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/columnists/94561--kelly-cathal) By Cathal Kelly (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/columnists/94561--kelly-cathal) Feature Writer




According to multiple reports out of the Netherlands, former Holland national team player and current Ajax of Amsterdam assistant coach Aron Winter will be the man to lead Toronto FC next season.
“(Toronto FC) came to the right place,” Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf quoted Winter as saying about the opportunity.
Winter will fill the vacancy as the team’s technical director and head coach. He will also reportedly bring along another Dutchman, Bob de Klerk, one of the heads of Ajax’s famed youth academy, De Toekomst.
Winter told the paper that he planned to fly to Canada on Monday to sign with Toronto’s Major League Soccer club.
Asked this morning if Winter was Toronto FC’s new man, the team’s current boss, interim GM Earl Cochrane, said, “I don’t know.”
It’s unclear where this leaves Paul Mariner, the man widely reported to take the head coaching job, or the team’s interim coach, Canadian Nick Dasovic.

[Detroit_TFC]

Will this be the success we all have been dreaming of? Who knows. Like Mythbusters say "failure is always an option." But I like what it says about the team's priorities - improving the on field performance with a solid playing system and building a strong youth development system. The next step (well, after the mgmt team is officially announced) will be to see which players they feel will fit this new system. That may take some time.

[Nuvinho]

I think wrong information boys because Aron dont come allone, he bring Bob de Klerk with him as his assistent



Its been mentioned before already in the thread.

[Jeffro]

^ yeah, like in the first sentence of the first post hahaha

[Oldtimer]

Kelly is just re-writing the early Associated Press reports. We now know that Winter is the head coach.

[denime]

Good morning from the Netherlands! It's all over the soccer news, this morning, so it's official: Aron Winter will be TFC's TD and Manager. He'll bring Bob de Klerk (former Ajax Academy assistant) along, while Paul Mariner steps in as first team coach/assistant coach.

Winter krijgt een dubbelfunctie bij Toronto FC
FC Toronto heeft Aron Winter gekozen als nieuwe technisch directeur. De oud-international krijgt daarnaast het eerste elftal van de Canadese club onder hoede. Toronto FC was op zoek naar iemand die zowel het technisch beleid als de hoofdmacht voor zijn rekening wilde nemen. Bekendheid met de Ajax-cultuur en speelstijl was een belangrijk onderdeel van de sollicitatie. 'Dan zijn ze bij mij aan het goede adres', zei Winter in De Telegraaf. De 43-jarige oud-international rekende af met de concurrentie van voormalige Engelse spits Paul Mariner en tekent een dezer dagen voor drie jaar bij Toronto FC. 'Ik ben vorige week twee dagen bij de club langs geweest en hield daar direct een goed gevoel aan over', zei Winter. 'Zij ook want ik was nog niet terug of ik werd al teruggebeld. Van de drie kandidaten maakte ik de beste indruk. Rond de jaarwisseling is alles rondgekomen.' Winter staat bij de club uit de Major League Soccer voor het eerst op eigen benen als hoofdcoach. Bob de Klerk, die bij Ajax de A1 onder zijn hoede had, gaat mee als rechterhand.
(Source: Voetbal International, VI.nl)

GOOGLE TRANSLATION:

Winter gets a double feature at Toronto FC

Aron Winter Toronto FC has chosen as the new technical director. The former national team player will also have the first team under his wing. Toronto FC was looking for someone who is both the technical strategy as the main force on his behalf wanted. Familiarity with the Ajax playing style and culture was an important part of the application. "They've come to the right place, " said Winter in Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf. The 43-year-old charged with international competition from former England striker Paul Mariner and was chosen a few days ago. He will sign a 3-year contract with TFC. "I was at the club last week for two days and immediately had a good feeling", said Winter. "The feeling was mutual since they called back before was back in Amsterdam. Of the three candidates, I was chosen and just around New Year's everything was worked out."Bob de Klerk, Winter's assistant at the Ajax Academy, will be his right hand man.


I think wrong information boys because Aron dont come allone, he bring Bob de Klerk with him as his assistent




Aron Winter next TFC head coach: Reports

Published On Mon Jan 3 2011

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http://media.thestar.topscms.com/images/f2/81/78e1c6e44eba9632f5ced10330ba.jpeg (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/columnists/94561--kelly-cathal) By Cathal Kelly (http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/columnists/94561--kelly-cathal) Feature Writer




According to multiple reports out of the Netherlands, former Holland national team player and current Ajax of Amsterdam assistant coach Aron Winter will be the man to lead Toronto FC next season.
“(Toronto FC) came to the right place,” Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf quoted Winter as saying about the opportunity.
Winter will fill the vacancy as the team’s technical director and head coach. He will also reportedly bring along another Dutchman, Bob de Klerk, one of the heads of Ajax’s famed youth academy, De Toekomst.
Winter told the paper that he planned to fly to Canada on Monday to sign with Toronto’s Major League Soccer club.
Asked this morning if Winter was Toronto FC’s new man, the team’s current boss, interim GM Earl Cochrane, said, “I don’t know.”
It’s unclear where this leaves Paul Mariner, the man widely reported to take the head coaching job, or the team’s interim coach, Canadian Nick Dasovic.


It was mentioned in the first post in this thread,it's obvious Cunthal Kelly is reading our boards to pick up info for his useless articles.

[Torontotonto]

Just heard this news briefly on way home from work on Fan590.
Not too sure who this guy is but from the comments I read already posted it seems to be a big improvement from our past management group.
I like the idea of bringing in Van Nistelroy or mabey another DNMT player.

[Darlofletch]

I love it ..... we're finally freed from British tyranny

and Paul Mariner's from where?

[Oldtimer]

The Ajax model would work very well for a middling league like MLS.

Developing your own players keeps costs down. Plus, for those who become stars, there is the possibility of selling players. Under MLS rules, 2/3 of the $$$ from selling players goes to the club (1/3 to the league), with the first $500k being available as allocation money to spend, and the rest for facilities, etc. If a club sold 2 players, that's an extra $1 million in cap space! That could easily become a good way to dominate the league.

Leagues like the Dutch league thrive on selling players to higher leagues.

[ArmenJBX]

But is the Ajax model what Toronto FC needs right now, or is even ready for?

I pose this question to you now,
If, in 5 years, we could play with a squad of locally developed players, who grew up playing in the TFC style (Whatever that may be), but would have NO success for those 5 years, would you take it? That's assuming that, at the end of those 5 years, we win the MLS cup or something.

It takes time to make a squad like Ajax or Barcelona. Would you be willing to go through years of development and trophy-less-ness for one really good year?

[TFCRegina]

But is the Ajax model what Toronto FC needs right now, or is even ready for?

I pose this question to you now,
If, in 5 years, we could play with a squad of locally developed players, who grew up playing in the TFC style (Whatever that may be), but would have NO success for those 5 years, would you take it? That's assuming that, at the end of those 5 years, we win the MLS cup or something.

It takes time to make a squad like Ajax or Barcelona. Would you be willing to go through years of development and trophy-less-ness for one really good year?

The problem with Toronto is it's unwillingness to put in the leg work in any sport to rebuild a club. Toronto fans expect instant rebuilds and get pissy without that. I'd wait 5 years if an MLS cup was guaranteed.

[ilikemusic]

http://www3.sympatico.ca/vsca/Logo30.gif

Represent!

:D

[torontocelt]

But is the Ajax model what Toronto FC needs right now, or is even ready for?

I pose this question to you now,
If, in 5 years, we could play with a squad of locally developed players, who grew up playing in the TFC style (Whatever that may be), but would have NO success for those 5 years, would you take it? That's assuming that, at the end of those 5 years, we win the MLS cup or something.

It takes time to make a squad like Ajax or Barcelona. Would you be willing to go through years of development and trophy-less-ness for one really good year?

Are we not already four years in with nothing to show except the Canadian cup which we had a one in three chance of winning anyway? I would say we have already had four years of failure. The thing is that there is no such thing as a five year plan which guarantees success. There have been many clubs who have talked about 5 year plans and it has not come off. Hearts in Scotland are one club who talked about a five year plan, on their fifth year they were meant to have the SPL tied up and they were meant to be competitively competing in the champions league, neither of those have transpired.

The other aspect is can the MLSE afford to have this football team not compete for another 5 years? Season ticket sales were difficult for them this year and much of that would be to do with price and the fact that TFC have been utter pish. It would be even more difficult to shift tickets at the price MLSE see as reasonable when the team continues to fail. From a business perspective I cannot see them being happy for outright failure for the next five years, Toronto FC fans have shown that they are not leafs fans and they will walk if performances are continuously sub par or ticket prices are deemed too much.

That is not to say that the youth would fail, I mean some of the guys from the academy who were bled last season appeared to have more going for them than many of the first team squad. It is also worth noting that it would be wise to bleed youngsters with a mixture of our better experienced players. I would be quite happy to see youth given a chance in front of some of the shit players I have seen play for TFC since it creation.

[ag futbol]

^ good point.

Any youth heavy strategy will have to put in place some transitory measures until the factory starts producing enough to sustain itself. With young kids being cheap, that leaves plenty of room for us to do other things with our roster.

I have never thought the way to develop talent was to throw as many young guys on the field as possible. You only play as many guys as the sytem can bear while holding together. Otherwise you end up with a shit show where players are getting experience but forming bad habits.

We have plenty of flexibility to develop youth players and run a competitive roster. The youth academy still has lots of things to sort out before we start having some kind of debate where they are taking up a large number of spots.

That being said i don't expect much out of this coming season other than a bit of promise and maybe scrapping for that last playoff spot.

[DOMIN8R]

Developing your own players keeps costs down. Plus, for those who become stars, there is the possibility of selling players..... If a club sold 2 players, that's an extra $1 million in cap space! That could easily become a good way to dominate the league.

Leagues like the Dutch league thrive on selling players to higher leagues.

This^

[DOMIN8R]

For those who are unfamiliar with how they Ajax operates - the NY Times did an interesting story last summer that many RPBs read and discussed. It's a fascinating read and credit goes to the original poster in this forum (sorry - I don't remember who it was).

Complete article can be found here (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html).

[Kooper]

But is the Ajax model what Toronto FC needs right now, or is even ready for?

I pose this question to you now,
If, in 5 years, we could play with a squad of locally developed players, who grew up playing in the TFC style (Whatever that may be), but would have NO success for those 5 years, would you take it? That's assuming that, at the end of those 5 years, we win the MLS cup or something.

It takes time to make a squad like Ajax or Barcelona. Would you be willing to go through years of development and trophy-less-ness for one really good year?

My complaint up until now is that we have been crap without any growth or improvment of our prospects. If we had been crap but Edson Buddle, Marvell Wynne, Gabe Gala, Stephan Frei, Nana Attakora and Sam Cronin were allowed to play and improve under the supervision of some seasoned vets like Danny Dichio, Jim Brennan and Carl Robinson then even a season when we missed the playoffs could be seen as a sucess because in the end you get a better team with a strong dedicated core.

What we got was a series of manager coaching for their jobs who traded away teh future for players that improved their chances of having a job next week.

What TFC should do is give Winter a 5 year contract and we should all shut up and look to the long term.

That will allow him to bring up the youth and make some mistakes. If we jump on him because we have a young, inexperienced team who is making mistakes, we as fans will make the same mistake Leaf fans make every year. The front office will listen to fan criticism and be pressured to trade some youth to get a short term replacement.

[scooter]

koop agreed
but we are on a five year plan and this is the year
i pray to god this dutch rumour is true cause it could be the start of something great
lets hope danny and daso and brennan can be part of this
without bullshit our team needs to stay together and develop as a team and coaches
its a new year so i hope things can come together soon
cross your fingers boys and girls

[Huyton]

Except for Milltown FC, will the rest of the CSL be good enough technically to provide TFC's academy team with the calibre of competition they'll need to develop?

This also has major implications for the Canadian Mens National Team. If TFC is developing Canadian talent for MLS and for sale to other leagues around the world, we might just end up with a good team DESPITE the CSA!

[Mr. Bigby]

For those who are unfamiliar with how they Ajax operates - the NY Times did an interesting story last summer that many RPBs read and discussed. It's a fascinating read and credit goes to the original poster in this forum (sorry - I don't remember who it was).

Complete article can be found here (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html).


Excellent article! Thanks for re-posting it.

[denime]

My complaint up until now is that we have been crap without any growth or improvment of our prospects. If we had been crap but Edson Buddle, Marvell Wynne, Gabe Gala, Stephan Frei, Nana Attakora and Sam Cronin were allowed to play and improve under the supervision of some seasoned vets like Danny Dichio, Jim Brennan and Carl Robinson then even a season when we missed the playoffs could be seen as a sucess because in the end you get a better team with a strong dedicated core.

What we got was a series of manager coaching for their jobs who traded away teh future for players that improved their chances of having a job next week.

What TFC should do is give Winter a 5 year contract and we should all shut up and look to the long term.

That will allow him to bring up the youth and make some mistakes. If we jump on him because we have a young, inexperienced team who is making mistakes, we as fans will make the same mistake Leaf fans make every year. The front office will listen to fan criticism and be pressured to trade some youth to get a short term replacement.


THIS !!

[tovan]

Except for Milltown FC, will the rest of the CSL be good enough technically to provide TFC's academy team with the calibre of competition they'll need to develop?

This also has major implications for the Canadian Mens National Team. If TFC is developing Canadian talent for MLS and for sale to other leagues around the world, we might just end up with a good team DESPITE the CSA!

It definitely has implications for the national team. The more players the Academy/TFC can produce and discover, the more players available for selection. If they can be sold on to bigger leagues and teams, even better. Having guys like Brennan and Daso involved also has major implications for the future in training managers, technical personnel, etc that will be important to the development of the game in years to come.

re CSL: raising the bar in the CSL can only be good for everyone. It'll force teams to get their sh*t together or risk falling behind.

With MLS in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal, NASL in Edmonton and possibly coming to Hamilton, Ottawa, a new PDL team in Winnipeg in addition to the ones that already exist, etc.. the future could be bright.

It's interesting to note that the there are a number of Dutchmen in key positions with 3 of the 4 major clubs in the country.

Richard Grootshoolten - Whitecaps Academy technical director
Harry Sinkgraven - FC Edmonton head coach
Aron Winter - Toronto FC head coach?
Bob de Klerk - Toronto FC assistant/academy coach?

[Batman]

For those who are unfamiliar with how they Ajax operates - the NY Times did an interesting story last summer that many RPBs read and discussed. It's a fascinating read and credit goes to the original poster in this forum (sorry - I don't remember who it was).

Complete article can be found here (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html).

Quite an article Hal. It taught my a ton about Ajax and their system that I didn't know.

Thanks for digging it up.

[TFCRegina]

It definitely has implications for the national team. The more players the Academy/TFC can produce and discover, the more players available for selection. If they can be sold on to bigger leagues and teams, even better. Having guys like Brennan and Daso involved also has major implications for the future in training managers, technical personnel, etc that will be important to the development of the game in years to come.

re CSL: raising the bar in the CSL can only be good for everyone. It'll force teams to get their sh*t together or risk falling behind.

With MLS in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal, NASL in Edmonton and possibly coming to Hamilton, Ottawa, a new PDL team in Winnipeg in addition to the ones that already exist, etc.. the future could be bright.

It's interesting to note that the there are a number of Dutchmen in key positions with 3 of the 4 major clubs in the country.

Richard Grootshoolten - Whitecaps Academy technical director
Harry Sinkgraven - FC Edmonton head coach
Aron Winter - Toronto FC head coach?
Bob de Klerk - Toronto FC assistant/academy coach?

And that has bigger ramifications for development in this country. The academies, by and large, put on camps and teach kids different ways of developing, but they also teach the parents and coaches new ways of training.

That type of dissemination of knowledge takes a long time to spread, but with that being spread, the players in this country can only get better.

[Macksam]

But is the Ajax model what Toronto FC needs right now, or is even ready for?

I pose this question to you now,
If, in 5 years, we could play with a squad of locally developed players, who grew up playing in the TFC style (Whatever that may be), but would have NO success for those 5 years, would you take it? That's assuming that, at the end of those 5 years, we win the MLS cup or something.

It takes time to make a squad like Ajax or Barcelona. Would you be willing to go through years of development and trophy-less-ness for one really good year?
Well, like the Detroit Red Wings in the NHL, every season after those 5 of developing will give us a competitive team year in and year out.

[los sonadores]

What's with all the mention of 5 year plans in sports and business the past few years? We're so amnesiac in Canada and the U.S. Hasn't anyone heard of Stalin or the Soviet Union?

[Yohan]

That being said i don't expect much out of this coming season other than a bit of promise and maybe scrapping for that last playoff spot.
+1

we're in for a total overhaul of the club. it's going to take a while before we start seeing real results i think

[Juanito]

beat me to it! ... this is fantastic news, a little culture injection from Ajax can do nothing but good :)

I applaud TFC for trying. This sounds like a fantastic move.

[gracos]

Once we get closer to preseason, I will be able to make judgment, I just need to be patient, and am happy that the team decided to look outside of the already existent. I hope to hear many good things, and we are definitely taking a new step, lets hope though, its one forward, and not back

[Darlofletch]

+1

we're in for a total overhaul of the club. it's going to take a while before we start seeing real results i think

yep, future looks rosy if supporters and front office have patience to see it through.

hopefully mariner can provide the know how to help build a reasonably competitive team in short term, so we don't rashly decide to blow it up again before the academy and overall philosophy can really have an effect.

[Roogsy]

I don't think I will ever forgive Tom for fucking up the team in it's first 4 years. He did no due diligence. Once it was obvious he had a ninny heading up the club, waited a full year before he pulled the trigger and in the meantime, allowed the final insult in the form of the worst hiring of a manager in the team's history. That is all on Tom.

However...

With this final bit of what appears to be solid, intelligent and well-thought out decisions, I am willing to sacrifice a year of two of non-playoff football IF the team is showing progress and growth. Is it sad that the team will have to wait until it's 6th season (hopefully) to see playoff action? Yes of course. That will only serve to show that Richard, Tom and their merry band of accountants need to keep their mitts off the actual running of the club. It is what it is. We can't expect a turnaround in a year. We have something like 12 players signed to contracts going into the preseason which is only weeks away. Let's hope these guys get busy and start reshaping this club from the sad state it is in.

In the meantime, I will be having Dutch Dreams...anyone feel like joining me? Just a short walk from the St Clair West station. :D

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSpDTI16dqhCZOWXTP1VcFI0lCK9um5 KP-BIIcLwtCnynzisTC

[Stryker]

Dutch Dreams? Sounds like pron.

[Cashcleaner]

I don't think I will ever forgive Tom for fucking up the team in it's first 4 years. He did no due diligence. Once it was obvious he had a ninny heading up the club, waited a full year before he pulled the trigger and in the meantime, allowed the final insult in the form of the worst hiring of a manager in the team's history. That is all on Tom.

However...

With this final bit of what appears to be solid, intelligent and well-thought out decisions, I am willing to sacrifice a year of two of non-playoff football IF the team is showing progress and growth. Is it sad that the team will have to wait until it's 6th season (hopefully) to see playoff action? Yes of course. That will only serve to show that Richard, Tom and their merry band of accountants need to keep their mitts off the actual running of the club. It is what it is. We can't expect a turnaround in a year. We have something like 12 players signed to contracts going into the preseason which is only weeks away. Let's hope these guys get busy and start reshaping this club from the sad state it is in.


I can live with that too.

Now that I've had a day to digest this news, I really think we may be on to a good combination with Mariner coaching and Winter coming in as GM. Though to be honest, I see the division of their duties to be a formality. It looks to me like both men will have a lot of input on almost all aspects of the club and I see this more as a partnership between the two of them as opposed to a more hierarchal structure with the coach operating under the authority of the GM.

All said, I wouldn't rule out playoffs entirely this season. I mean, this is MLS we're talking about and a lot can happen over the next few months. I'm not willing to bet money on it, but stranger things have happened. Like Roogsy, I'll cut the club some slack for a year just as long as their overall direction is good.

[Oldtimer]

In MLS rebuilds can happen pretty fast (look at New York), and while we need to have some patience, it's not impossible that TFC at least makes the playoffs, especially given that there are a lot of player spots available.

Things should be a lot more fun, anyways, and the football a lot more entertaining. My eyes metaphorically hurt watching Preki's anti-football last season.

[trane]

I have to admit I like the sound of this management / coaching team a lot better now. Winter will have extensive links at some of the best clubs in the world and to have another guy from the Ajax academy is a great move. I am unsure how loan deals would work in the MLS but hopefully we can get some of the younger players over here to help with squad depth. Failing that then perhaps we can catch some of the guys who do not make it at Ajax, that would be a real plus if this fitted in with the crazy MLS rules. I really hope we do not go down the road of having Mariner and Winter as head coaches, there should only ever be room for one in my opinion with the other as assistant. On another note Winter played as a defensive midfielder, will this dictate his outlook on how the team plays? If so then this will not be in favor with a lot of TFC fans who did not like Preki's teams.

The team under Preki played nothing like I would expect any present day defensive minded team to play. They hardly worked on tactics, just on working hard and tackling, not much else.

From what I have seen and know about Dutch football, much of the ideas have entered into the top Euro leauges, Spain and Italy specificaly. Inter last year, for example, and Milan this year and last year used variations of a 4-3-3, mostly with one CF and two CMs, one AM behind and two DM playing ahead of the bac line. Leanorado played a similar style. The team has to stay in shape and everyone has a role going forward and defending. It is discoplined modern football. Which we do not see much of in MLS.

[trane]

I don't think I will ever forgive Tom for fucking up the team in it's first 4 years. He did no due diligence. Once it was obvious he had a ninny heading up the club, waited a full year before he pulled the trigger and in the meantime, allowed the final insult in the form of the worst hiring of a manager in the team's history. That is all on Tom.

However...

With this final bit of what appears to be solid, intelligent and well-thought out decisions, I am willing to sacrifice a year of two of non-playoff football IF the team is showing progress and growth. Is it sad that the team will have to wait until it's 6th season (hopefully) to see playoff action? Yes of course. That will only serve to show that Richard, Tom and their merry band of accountants need to keep their mitts off the actual running of the club. It is what it is. We can't expect a turnaround in a year. We have something like 12 players signed to contracts going into the preseason which is only weeks away. Let's hope these guys get busy and start reshaping this club from the sad state it is in.

In the meantime, I will be having Dutch Dreams...anyone feel like joining me? Just a short walk from the St Clair West station. :D

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSpDTI16dqhCZOWXTP1VcFI0lCK9um5 KP-BIIcLwtCnynzisTC

Agreed.

[Cashcleaner]

In MLS rebuilds can happen pretty fast (look at New York), and while we need to have some patience, it's not impossible that TFC at least makes the playoffs, especially given that there are a lot of player spots available.

Things should be a lot more fun, anyways, and the football a lot more entertaining. My eyes metaphorically hurt watching Preki's anti-football last season.

Exactly. I'm not holding my breath, but playoffs are doable just given the nature of this league. All said, it certainly would be a nice change for us, though.

[Yeoman]

starting to look even more legit, considering his old job is now filled by dennis bergkamp

[ManUtd4ever]

I don't think I will ever forgive Tom for fucking up the team in it's first 4 years. He did no due diligence. Once it was obvious he had a ninny heading up the club, waited a full year before he pulled the trigger and in the meantime, allowed the final insult in the form of the worst hiring of a manager in the team's history. That is all on Tom.

However...

With this final bit of what appears to be solid, intelligent and well-thought out decisions, I am willing to sacrifice a year of two of non-playoff football IF the team is showing progress and growth. Is it sad that the team will have to wait until it's 6th season (hopefully) to see playoff action? Yes of course. That will only serve to show that Richard, Tom and their merry band of accountants need to keep their mitts off the actual running of the club. It is what it is. We can't expect a turnaround in a year. We have something like 12 players signed to contracts going into the preseason which is only weeks away. Let's hope these guys get busy and start reshaping this club from the sad state it is in.

In the meantime, I will be having Dutch Dreams...anyone feel like joining me? Just a short walk from the St Clair West station. :D

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSpDTI16dqhCZOWXTP1VcFI0lCK9um5 KP-BIIcLwtCnynzisTC

Agreed Roogsy, although I don't think the playoffs should be considered an unrealistic goal for the upcoming season. Mariner and Winter are not exactly walking into a situation akin to that of an expansion team. The cupboard in Toronto is not bare. The spine of the team is still solid by MLS standards with Frei, Cann, Attakora, JDG, Labrocca, Sturgis, (DeRo?), Barrett, and Santos. If Mariner and Winter can utilize their combined expertise to augment the existing core with technically skilled players (including 2 potential DP's), TFC should theoretically be able to compete for one of the last playoff spots. That being said, I certainly won't crucify management if the club falls short of a playoff berth provided the team gradually improves over the course of the season...

[Suds]

yep, future looks rosy if supporters and front office have patience to see it through.

hopefully mariner can provide the know how to help build a reasonably competitive team in short term, so we don't rashly decide to blow it up again before the academy and overall philosophy can really have an effect.

I hear that. I'm not putting too much hope in TFC doing anything spectacular on the field this year considering where the team is starting from. If we do then I'll be happily surprised. So I'm willing to give whatever the new management group is time to build something.

Two things I'd like to see are: 1) gradual improvement in TFC's play. (tactics, style, commitment, etc.) That may not translate to wins this year 2) continued academy development.

As a fan I'm in this for the long haul so if I see improvements I'll be patient. It's starts with hiring the right people and it seems we are heading int he right direction on that front. (time will tell) Other than learning from massive mistakes, the past four years are basically a write-off.