Mariner leaves Plymouth to pursue opportunities elsewhere

[anto7]

Paul Mariner leaves cash-strapped Plymouth Argyle


Paul Mariner has left his role as head coach at cash-strapped Plymouth Argyle to pursue an opportunity elsewhere.

The 57-year-old joined the Pilgrims from US side New England Revolution in October 2009.

He initially worked under Paul Sturrock, before replacing the Scot as Argyle boss in December 2009.

Mariner, who asked to be released from his contract on Thursday, had reverted to the number two role at Home Park under Peter Reid this season.

Mariner's departure comes with Plymouth facing the threat of being wound up next year, unless the club can pay off their £760,000 tax bill to HM Revenue and Customs.

The former England striker made 135 appearances for the Pilgrims between 1973 and 1976, scoring 56 goals.

[anto7]

From BBC news

[wzhxvy]

Hmmm...I wonder where he is going...leaving a sinking ship to board another one.

[vince93]

Press conference, Dec 31, 11:59.
TFC promised a new manger before the year was out!
Happy New Year to all the supporters.

[Pookie]

Reports say Toronto FC Ready to Name New Coach:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer/mls/torontofc/article/914090--reports-say-toronto-fc-ready-to-name-new-coach

"The British press has reported that Mariner, 57, was offered a three-year deal in North America."

[Detroit_TFC]

Well, at least he will have a little bit of knowledge about how things have gone here, at least until he went back to the UK. I would imagine he's stayed in touch with MLS contacts even while he was over there.

[Jeff s]

Please no. Apparently tfc doesn't wanna win anything. We need a MANAGER, not an assistant like Carver. Pffff

[billyfly]

Well, the quirky league known as the MLS seems to dictate (like the CFL), someone with experience in the league's rules and the types of players required in teh ping-pong style of play.

[Stryker]

Im down with Mariner. I mean he isn't the miracle worker this team needs, but aside from Sigi I can't think of anyone else in North America I'd rather have.

[billyfly]

He better not bring any more argyle into TFC's gear though. Parky tried that already.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Im down with Mariner. I mean he isn't the miracle worker this team needs, but aside from Sigi I can't think of anyone else in North America I'd rather have. Bruce arena but yeah I'm not entirely opposed to him especially if joined by nicol

[Darlofletch]

Mariner's 50% of a reasonable MLS management team. going by coaching resumes alone, I'd certainly have chosen him ahead of Gary Smith or Jason kreis when they got their head coach positions and they haven't done too badly have they?

I'd be ok with him, but I'd still be looking for someone better than earl to be working above him.

[Waggy]

Edit: Im an idiot, and late to the party. And borderline illiterate. But hey, at least I found the Mariner thread to post in

[reggie]

since when do you hire a coach before a gm....

[Boondaddy]

Hear the rime of the ancient Mariner!!

[reggie]

so mlse went cheap again...so we got the the coch and a sailor...
enjoy my money for the last time mlse.

[Corpand]

Wow, why all the negativity? This is by far the best coach we have had. Talk to any NE fans and they will have nothing but love for the guy. He knows this league quite well, has connections and from what Ive read, knows how to deal with troublemakers.

[Waggy]

Wow, why all the negativity? This is by far the best coach we have had. Talk to any NE fans and they will have nothing but love for the guy. He knows this league quite well, has connections and from what Ive read, knows how to deal with troublemakers.

Cause normally a General Manager hires a coach, not vice versa. The announcing of a coach basically means they have a GM, and he's found a coach. Which means that Earl will most likely be the guy staying on as GM, as opposed to someone with some experience who didn't already work for MLSE

[David_Oliveira]

Cause normally a General Manager hires a coach, not vice versa. The announcing of a coach basically means they have a GM, and he's found a coach. Which means that Earl will most likely be the guy staying on as GM, as opposed to someone with some experience who didn't already work for MLSE

Reminds me alot of the Leafs bringing in Wilson for when they had a chance to get Burke. Are they bringing in Mariner to possibly go after Nicols?

[Waggy]

Reminds me alot of the Leafs bringing in Wilson for when they had a chance to get Burke. Are they bringing in Mariner to possibly go after Nicols?

Hey, any time you can replicate the success of the Leafs in another sport, you gotta take the opportunity :facepalm:

I assume they are, its just such an ass-backwards way of doing business that it makes my head hurt. I'd almost rather if they said Earls our boardroom guy, Pauls our on the pitch guy. Bringing in Mariner THEN bringing in Nicols on top just seems like adding unnecessarily. Unless they want Nicols to be the Director of Soccer or something instead of GM. Which I'd whole heartedly support theoretically. Even then though, why hire the guy to be Director of Soccer and not give him the freedom to find his own style/manager?

[David_Oliveira]

Hey, any time you can replicate the success of the Leafs in another sport, you gotta take the opportunity :facepalm:

I assume they are, its just such an ass-backwards way of doing business that it makes my head hurt. I'd almost rather if they said Earls our boardroom guy, Pauls our on the pitch guy. Bringing in Mariner THEN bringing in Nicols on top just seems like adding unnecessarily. Unless they want Nicols to be the Director of Soccer or something instead of GM. Which I'd whole heartedly support theoretically. Even then though, why hire the guy to be Director of Soccer and not give him the freedom to find his own style/manager?

I don't know about you, but at the time it looked like Burke could do wonders. I fully thought he would work magic. I would have made the same move. Why not go after one of the best in MLS? I'd be down. Let Earl be the "GM" for now and when Nicols comes in, he moves to a senior role

[Yohan]

Just a hypothesis, but if Mariner is indeed signing for TFC as head coach, and Nicol as GM, seems to me either Nicol has no problem working with Mariner again or TFC has Nicol's approval to sign Mariner, and just sorting out paperwork with NE to sign Nicol

[Shway]

this seems like preki all over again, just without the mo

when signed.......everybody supported preki
when things weren't good.....everybody wanted preki gone

[Waggy]

I don't know about you, but at the time it looked like Burke could do wonders. I fully thought he would work magic. I would have made the same move. Why not go after one of the best in MLS? I'd be down. Let Earl be the "GM" for now and when Nicols comes in, he moves to a senior role

I agree with you. At the same time though, it didn't work with the Leafs and I can't think of an example where that sort of organizational model has succeeded (coach preceding GM in a long term build). MLSE needs to stop trying to outsmart everyone and start doing things the conventional way. In sports, conventional works. it just does. Teams that win almost always tend to follow very similar and safe paths to success. Why do MLSE teams have to try and be either ahead of the curve or throwbacks? Why can't they just replicate what works TODAY? And what works today in MLS is not hiring a coach then bringing in someone after him to be the one picking players and an organizational philosophy. That didn't work ever. I don't care HOW good the coach is

[__wowza]

this seems like preki all over again, just without the mo

when signed.......everybody supported preki
when things weren't good.....everybody wanted preki gone

actually, the sentiment on the board was very anti-preki at the time.
if you'll recall, he cleared out our team almost completely. cleaned house and moved several of our fan favourites.

when he started people didn't like him.
after the columbus game people didn't like him.

most of us chose to reserve judgment until we saw the completed team he was trying to put together, but you really couldn't help feeling uneasy this time (fast forward a month) last year.

[razor787]

Well yea, once he started making the cuts we hated him. But when we heard the name it was a relief. People were praising him because he had taken chivas to the playoffs even though they were in the same boat we are in. But then, like you said, we saw what he was doing, and we turned.

[ManUtd4ever]

Bruce arena but yeah I'm not entirely opposed to him especially if joined by nicol


Mariner's 50% of a reasonable MLS management team. going by coaching resumes alone, I'd certainly have chosen him ahead of Gary Smith or Jason kreis when they got their head coach positions and they haven't done too badly have they?

I'd be ok with him, but I'd still be looking for someone better than earl to be working above him.


Wow, why all the negativity? This is by far the best coach we have had. Talk to any NE fans and they will have nothing but love for the guy. He knows this league quite well, has connections and from what Ive read, knows how to deal with troublemakers.

Yup, yup, and yup...

[vince93]

I think people on this board who are so concerned about who the GM will be or is are looking at the situation as North American sports fans. In world football the manager makes all the player related decisions, not a GM. Who is the GM at MUN, Inter, or Real Madrid? The question should be if Paul Mariner is the right choice as manager not who the gm will be. How many teams have a GM anyway?

[ManUtd4ever]

^^ The reports indicate that Mariner will be hired as the Coach/Manager although Gerry Dobson tweeted yesterday that the rumored GM candidate to have recently emerged is Steve Nicol. I hope Dobson is on to something as I would love to see Nicol and Mariner reunited as a management tandem in Toronto without being hindered by the financial constraints they dealt with in New England...

[menefreghista]

I think people on this board who are so concerned about who the GM will be or is are looking at the situation as North American sports fans. In world football the manager makes all the player related decisions, not a GM. Who is the GM at MUN, Inter, or Real Madrid? The question should be if Paul Mariner is the right choice as manager not who the gm will be. How many teams have a GM anyway?

This is a pretty big misconception. Really only in Britain is the role retained by one person. Most of the rest of Europe has a Coach and GM similar to the structure of North American sports.

[Derko]

since when do you hire a coach before a gm....

Isn't a GM/Head Coach combo a lame North American paradigm?

[Derko]

this seems like preki all over again, just without the mo

when signed.......everybody supported preki
when things weren't good.....everybody wanted preki gone

Except Me, Preki was and always will be an asshole.:drinking:

[Pigfynn]

Some member of the Toronto media or blog media guys should spend today trying to find out whether or not this whole Nicol thing has any legs.

I have the that familiar feeling that TFC is good at creating in it's fans only to let us down and I'd rather know asap that there is no hope of this.

Please be merciful and someone please just say "Nicol is going nowhere according to..."

Many thanks

[Beach_Red]

I think people on this board who are so concerned about who the GM will be or is are looking at the situation as North American sports fans. In world football the manager makes all the player related decisions, not a GM. Who is the GM at MUN, Inter, or Real Madrid? The question should be if Paul Mariner is the right choice as manager not who the gm will be. How many teams have a GM anyway?

What people are concerned about is, who is running the team? Who hired the coach? Who will fire him when the time comes?

All those European teams are run top to bottom by 'football' people, they have chairmans and presidents and boards of directors who live and breath football. We don't. This goes beyond a manager making player decisions.

This particular guy may be a terrific manager (or coach, or whatever title you want to give him) but that's a small part of what's needed here.

[Kooper]

Seriously the best we can do is a failling manager of a 15th ranked team from the English Third Division (now called League 1).

I am less impressed now than I was at the end of last season.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

What people are concerned about is, who is running the team? Who hired the coach? Who will fire him when the time comes?

All those European teams are run top to bottom by 'football' people, they have chairmans and presidents and boards of directors who live and breath football. We don't. This goes beyond a manager making player decisions.

This particular guy may be a terrific manager (or coach, or whatever title you want to give him) but that's a small part of what's needed here.

youre not likely to find that sort of organization in NA at this time.
Name one other team in the league thats like that.
One would argue Seattle but realistically thats not true at all, none of those dudes 'breathe' football.

[TFCRegina]

youre not likely to find that sort of organization in NA at this time.
Name one other team in the league thats like that.
One would argue Seattle but realistically thats not true at all, none of those dudes 'breathe' football.

Van City is the closest...and they're fucking over their supporters left right and centre.

[Ossington Mental Youth]

Van City is the closest...and they're fucking over their supporters left right and centre.

forgot about them, great point

[Damien]

Seriously the best we can do is a failling manager of a 15th ranked team from the English Third Division (now called League 1).

For 2 reasons I'm not worried...

1) Plymouth is cashstrapped and on the verge of bankruptcy. I'm sure he didn't have a lot to work with.
2) He had a great track record with New England and their club has taken a bit of a nosedive since he left.

[Brooker]

For 2 reasons I'm not worried...

1) Plymouth is cashstrapped and on the verge of bankruptcy. I'm sure he didn't have a lot to work with.
2) He had a great track record with New England and their club has taken a bit of a nosedive since he left.

hey now, don't let facts get in the way of a good sandy vagina rant. :D

[Oldtimer]

Seriously the best we can do is a failling manager of a 15th ranked team from the English Third Division (now called League 1).



Arsene Wenger was desperate to be coaching TFC, but couldn't get his contract released.


:lol:

We're not going to get someone world class. Someone with a good track record in MLS is already pretty good, and all that you need, really.

[wzhxvy]

What track record does he have in MLS ? The record of an assistant...its one thing to be an assistant and other thing to be the guy...entirely different. Why do we keep accepting second class solutions ??

[Yohan]

What track record does he have in MLS ? The record of an assistant...its one thing to be an assistant and other thing to be the guy...entirely different. Why do we keep accepting second class solutions ??
I'm sure Gary Smith and Dominic Kinnear were thought of as second solutions too

[Pigfynn]

I wonder how Dasovic will take this news.

When he was asked at the end of the season if he would stay on as an assistant for another head coach, he sort of intimated that it depended who it was. Not sure he'll like the idea of playing second fiddle to a second fiddle.

[wzhxvy]

I'm sure Gary Smith and Dominic Kinnear were thought of as second solutions too

But I could name a bunch of other assistants that became coachs that failed. We are not at a stage where we can take risks...you need someone proven who gives you a significant opportunity to be successful...not someone who is unproven. Can he be successful ? sure but that is not enough for now...especially if its him and Earl...that is just a disaster waiting to happen...someone in the FO has to be experienced and have a track record of success...SOMEONE PLEASE

[Damien]

hey now, don't let facts get in the way of a good sandy vagina rant. :D

Ah yes, my bad. Carry on. :rolleyes:

[Beach_Red]

Arsene Wenger was desperate to be coaching TFC, but couldn't get his contract released.


:lol:

We're not going to get someone world class. Someone with a good track record in MLS is already pretty good, and all that you need, really.


It just makes the whole hiring of the consultant seem strange. Is Klinsmann still going to design the "style of play" for an MLS team coached by Paul Mariner? If an ex-MLS assistant is all that was needed, why go through all this?

Anyway, it may very well work out well. NE was never going to sign a DP and TFC have one and have shown that they're willing to sign another one. Now that Mista is gone Mariner will be able to sign his own DP for over a million dollars a season and there's a very good chance he'll get a good one and be able to build a good team.

It's too bad there always has to be all this drama with this team, but getting this done now is good and we can finally start looking forward.

[ensco]

I don't love the idea of hiring a coach without a GM in place, if that's what's going on, but....I did this because Mariner is getting criticized for Plymouth's troubles, and I don't think people have any idea how bad it's been. So I’ve been hunting for information on Mariner, to get a better sense of who he is, and thought I’d consolidate put it up here.

(I know there's a news thread with some discussion going on in it, so mods you decide where this goes, seems to me news threads especially wander all over the place and have short lives)....

Some background on the crazy ownership situation at Plymouth
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8130224.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8130805.stm

Mariner brought in as the number two at Plymouth in Oct 2009:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8313076.stm

Interesting insights into the setup in NE (you need to plow through this a bit to get to the good stuff.. sounds like Kraft’s organization and MLSE have a lot in common)
http://revsnet1.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/could-a-departure-de-briefing-lead-to-a-fruitful-future-plus-an-interview-with-mark-watson/

Mariner gets the battlefield promote to head man in December 2009:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8405711.stm

First day in the job – league steps in to stop the team from selling off its players:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8413544.stm

Mariner’s first move – bring in Carver:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8417529.stm

Mariner’s second move – bring in Kenny Cooper (on loan from 1860 Munich):
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/01/29/kenny.cooper/index.html

Mariner discusses conversation with Mo in an February interview
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8500205.stm

Plymouth drops. Mariner never uses Cooper much (there were claims after the fact that Cooper was still injured). Mariner gets demoted again.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1274063/Paul-Mariner-axed-Plymouth-relegation-League-One.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8632083.stm
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/sport/Cooper-chance-shine/article-2092466-detail/article.html

Mariner agrees to stay, even though he’s being demoted
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8688028.stm
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Reid-ponders-new-recruits-Argyle/article-2373314-detail/article.html

Mariner and Nicol do some business
http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/news/2010/11/revs-duo-heads-across-pond

Some non-controversial conclusions:

- Argyle was and is a total mess, a catastrophe. Very hard to draw any conclusions at all from his experience there. He had no ability to change players at all.
- Mariner brought Carver in to Argyle last year, and Mo was obviously someone he knew well enough to mention, so he’s pretty well informed about MLSE and is coming in “eyes wide open”
- It seems he was generally patient, staying with guys even as the situation there was getting worse and worse.
- Mariner is an MLS man now, through and through. His moves as head man at Plymouth were to bring in Carver and Cooper. He also brought in two Americans with US pedigree, Anton Peterlin and Cody Arnoux, (Peterlin made Plymouth this year), both look like they would be excellent pickups.
- Kenny Cooper is one snakebit guy

[billyfly]

^For a fat guy in an almost sinking boat, you work hard. Thanks Ensco for doing all this work.

[Cashcleaner]

Underwhelming to say the least.

Unless...

Unless...

We somehow get Nichol out of the deal.

I'm sorry guys, but Mariner himself doesn't really inspire me. And for the fee we're paying Klinsmann to find us a new coach/manager, we should be expecting more for our money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Mariner's experience as an assistant manager in MLS and at Harvard will come in handy and he could very well do a good job here in Toronto, but I really think we could have done better. I'll be honest, Mariner for coach is kinda "me'h" in my mind, but if it's part of an effort to entice Nichol here, it's more a "hmmmmmm, I like where this is going...".

[ManUtd4ever]

I don't love the idea of hiring a coach without a GM in place, if that's what's going on, but....I did this because Mariner is getting criticized for Plymouth's troubles, and I don't think people have any idea how bad it's been. So I’ve been hunting for information on Mariner, to get a better sense of who he is, and thought I’d consolidate put it up here.

(I know there's a news thread with some discussion going on in it, so mods you decide where this goes, seems to me news threads especially wander all over the place and have short lives)....

Some background on the crazy ownership situation at Plymouth
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8130224.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8130805.stm

Mariner brought in as the number two at Plymouth in Oct 2009:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8313076.stm

Interesting insights into the setup in NE (you need to plow through this a bit to get to the good stuff.. sounds like Kraft’s organization and MLSE have a lot in common)
http://revsnet1.wordpress.com/2009/10/31/could-a-departure-de-briefing-lead-to-a-fruitful-future-plus-an-interview-with-mark-watson/

Mariner gets the battlefield promote to head man in December 2009:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8405711.stm

First day in the job – league steps in to stop the team from selling off its players:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8413544.stm

Mariner’s first move – bring in Carver:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8417529.stm

Mariner’s second move – bring in Kenny Cooper (on loan from 1860 Munich):
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/01/29/kenny.cooper/index.html

Mariner discusses conversation with Mo in an February interview
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8500205.stm

Plymouth drops. Mariner never uses Cooper much (there were claims after the fact that Cooper was still injured). Mariner gets demoted again.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1274063/Paul-Mariner-axed-Plymouth-relegation-League-One.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8632083.stm
http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/sport/Cooper-chance-shine/article-2092466-detail/article.html

Mariner agrees to stay, even though he’s being demoted
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/8688028.stm
http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Reid-ponders-new-recruits-Argyle/article-2373314-detail/article.html

Mariner and Nicol do some business
http://www.revolutionsoccer.net/news/2010/11/revs-duo-heads-across-pond

Some non-controversial conclusions:

- Argyle was and is a total mess, a catastrophe. Very hard to draw any conclusions at all from his experience there. He had no ability to change players at all.
- Mariner brought Carver in to Argyle last year, and Mo was obviously someone he knew well enough to mention, so he’s pretty well informed about MLSE and is coming in “eyes wide open”
- It seems he was generally patient, staying with guys even as the situation there was getting worse and worse.
- Mariner is an MLS man now, through and through. His moves as head man at Plymouth were to bring in Carver and Cooper. He also brought in two Americans with US pedigree, Anton Peterlin and Cody Arnoux, (Peterlin made Plymouth this year), both look like they would be excellent pickups.
- Kenny Cooper is one snakebit guy

Excellent research. I scoured the New England Revolution message boards when this rumour initially surfaced and the overwhelming sentiment regarding Paul Mariner was positive. He seems like a good fit for our club and is well respected and connected within the football community both in North America and in Europe.

I think the skepticism regarding the hiring of Mariner is in relation to the overall management structure of TFC and the pending status of Earl Cochrane within the hierarchy...

[CoachGT]

I think Mariner is a half decent option for this club. He is not a world beater, but I'm not sure that any world beater would have a go here - MLS is a different league than most world class candidates would want to work with (a draft, a spending cap below what most world class managers would want as their own salary, the beginnings of an academy system). I'm a lot more positive about him than I ever was about Preki.

And I think that if Klinsmann hand is involved in it, I think that it shows that Klinsmann is realistic about this, too. There just aren't a lot of managers, bar Arena and Sigi, who have a proven history in this league.

[trane]

This is the same old underwhelming shit, and at best this means that we will be an average MLS club. I know many of you will be happy with that, as it is an improvment, I quess, but when this team was first put together, I beleived that this could have becoem the leading club in North America. Now I see that we will be another mediocare underachiving team for the forceable future, untill ownership changes. Clearly, it starts from the top and our corporate ownership does not have enough passion or drive to win.

Look around the world and most winning clubs, in footy and over sports, have an owner or ownership group that understand the importance of winning. MLSE is not such an ownership group.

In the past I was unsure about the role of ownership on a winning culture, but my four years of supporting this club, has taught me, to respect owners like my beloved AC Milan's Berlusconi, who for all I criticise him for, when interested put everything into the club. The MLSE will never be such an owner. Many of you will delude yourself, and call me this and that. But the truth is the truth.

Mariner is underwelmig at best, and I personlay would not be all that impressed by Nicol either. As Beach Red has consistently pointed out, New England has not been a world beater since we joined the league. It is just the same old same old.

[CretanBull]

I think people on this board who are so concerned about who the GM will be or is are looking at the situation as North American sports fans. In world football the manager makes all the player related decisions, not a GM. Who is the GM at MUN, Inter, or Real Madrid? The question should be if Paul Mariner is the right choice as manager not who the gm will be. How many teams have a GM anyway?

It's a different set up, but the "manager" is the "general manager" in Europe. The GM of Man United is Sir Alex, the head coach is...Rene whatever his name is, the Dutch guy..but the roles that each of them play is different from what we typically see in North America.

Paul Mariner is being brought in to be a North American style coach (not a European style manager or North American style General Manager) he's not going to be in charge of player acquisitions. contracts, transfers etc.

[trane]

^ As I pointed out you have the same in Italy, Gagliani is the GM role guy ( I think he is the official President at the moment, Berlusconi being the de facto one) gets players, deals, and Alegri is the guy who is the north american "coach", there are other people in managemet as well but those are the two key people

[Section 117]

Trane I understand yoru fustration with soon to be appointed coach of TFC, but at the end of the day no MLS team will hire the name coach we think they should get for many reasons. Ownership in a capped league has little room to play with. If this was any other league where money was no object I would completely agree with you with respect to MLSE. i believe that they (MLSE) realized theri mistake in giving Mo complete control. They are starting to fix things, but to clean up 4 years of crap will take some time.

If the rumor that Nicol is coming along for the ride as GM and or techincal director I think it is a step in the right direction. They have the knowledge of the league and understanding of the rules regarding the MLS. Only time will tell, but at least we know TFC will have people in place to start putting together a squad that will hopefully make us proud to support.

[trane]

^ I d not want a name coach, I want a good coahc, name or no name, that will have our guys play good discipline tacticaly sound football. There are dozens if not hundreds of them in European and South American leagues. I thought that this is what Klinsman was looking for.

I know people will not accept this but if you watch a good Second Division team, their TEAM play is miles ahead of anything we see in the MLS. That is what I had hoped for since year 2 pretty well.

[Beach_Red]

Trane I understand yoru fustration with soon to be appointed coach of TFC, but at the end of the day no MLS team will hire the name coach we think they should get for many reasons. Ownership in a capped league has little room to play with. If this was any other league where money was no object I would completely agree with you with respect to MLSE. i believe that they (MLSE) realized theri mistake in giving Mo complete control. They are starting to fix things, but to clean up 4 years of crap will take some time.

If the rumor that Nicol is coming along for the ride as GM and or techincal director I think it is a step in the right direction. They have the knowledge of the league and understanding of the rules regarding the MLS. Only time will tell, but at least we know TFC will have people in place to start putting together a squad that will hopefully make us proud to support.

Yes, it could be a good step in the right direction.

One thing the whole Mista thing showed is that the team is willing to pay another DP - so if Mariner (and maybe Nicol, too) comes in they'll have more to deal with than they ever had at NE. Sure, there's some mess to clean up, but that could be done quickly and then move forward.

[West220Side]

Mariner must be a glutton for punishment.
Plymouth was a mess when he went there and now he's linked to TFC. Is this the best candidate Tommy A can come up with? :facepalm:

[Section 117]

Trane then your issue isn't coaching it is the quality of the players which isn't MLSE thing it is a league wide problem. The level of soccer in Seire B is siginifcantly higher than MLS. It is closer to Serie C1/C2, I have been to watch my dad's home town in Italy in Serie C2 and it is more like the MLS.

The ability to land the players that play a entertaining tacticaly sound football, will take years and a lot more money then what is spent now. I think part of teh problem is teams rely on the MLS draft for players, the majority of the players in the NCAA are crap. (I played one year and came home from a NCAA school) You have the odd one or two become something. But the league was built to foster the developement of the US soccer players and they rely on these sources to get the players for the league and unitl the MLS significantly increase payroll you will not get the soccer you are looking for.

[Section 117]

Yes, it could be a good step in the right direction.

One thing the whole Mista thing showed is that the team is willing to pay another DP - so if Mariner (and maybe Nicol, too) comes in they'll have more to deal with than they ever had at NE. Sure, there's some mess to clean up, but that could be done quickly and then move forward.

A rumor I heard is the only reason Mista was signed was because Preki got a nice kick back for signing him. MLSE spends the money on all of their sports properties, their problem is they don't spend it wisely

[ensco]

Mariner is an excellent choice, considering the background. I just wish they weren't hiring him, it should be a GM.
Given the rep of the FO and the impending sale, he must be getting some significant term in his contract offer.

[Yohan]

But I could name a bunch of other assistants that became coachs that failed. We are not at a stage where we can take risks...you need someone proven who gives you a significant opportunity to be successful...not someone who is unproven. Can he be successful ? sure but that is not enough for now...especially if its him and Earl...that is just a disaster waiting to happen...someone in the FO has to be experienced and have a track record of success...SOMEONE PLEASE
ok. i'll take you up on it. name me some MLS assistant coachs that failed in MLS as head coach. interims do not count

[billyfly]

Mista was never a DP though. Paid DP money but was not a DP. I never saw anything that he was a DP.

[CretanBull]

Trane I understand yoru fustration with soon to be appointed coach of TFC, but at the end of the day no MLS team will hire the name coach we think they should get for many reasons. Ownership in a capped league has little room to play with. If this was any other league where money was no object I would completely agree with you with respect to MLSE. i believe that they (MLSE) realized theri mistake in giving Mo complete control. They are starting to fix things, but to clean up 4 years of crap will take some time.

TFC make a shit load of money and can't spend it on the roster, so why not build the best front office staff, best coaching staff, scouting department etc?

The hiring of Klinsmann brought with it rumours of Roberto Donadoni and Carlos Queiroz. In two months we've gone from former Italian and Portugese national team coaches to the old assistant from New England.

I'm not down on Marriner, by all accounts he's a solid manager who's been linked to a lot of MLS jobs (meaning he's been in demand before), but you'll have to forgive some of us if we got excited by signs that our club was thinking big - for once - and came crashing back down to earth in a matter of weeks.

[trane]

Section 117

I agree, but I think the sollution is taht we need to bring in coaches that can try to develop these skills, as most younger MLS players still have a chance to learn. Academies are also key. I have to tell you it painfull for me to watch the MLS at time. Like realy painfull.


I do agree that the cap is a problem. For example if Attakora became as tacticaly sound and intelignet player as someone his age in Europe or South America is, he would be gone. [he still may be gone, I would If I was him]

CretanBull I agree 100%, my comment is not meant to bash Mariner, it is just so not the direction I thought they would be taking.

[bgnewf]

This is a pretty big misconception. Really only in Britain is the role retained by one person. Most of the rest of Europe has a Coach and GM similar to the structure of North American sports.

Very true sir. And Happy New Year by the way!

One little caveat would be how MLS is kind of a hybrid. For every club in MLS that has a coach who just coaches backed up by a GM that chooses and signs players there are other clubs like new England, Seattle, and LA Galaxy that let their head coach make the player personel decisions and the GM just does the paperwork.

I think the model TFC should end up choosing should be based on the best people they feel they can recruit and then build the appropriate structure around them.

[CoachGT]

Mista was never a DP though. Paid DP money but was not a DP. I never saw anything that he was a DP.

During the all star game there was a graphic showing a list of the DPs that had been registered with MLS. His name was on it.

[Beach_Red]

A rumor I heard is the only reason Mista was signed was because Preki got a nice kick back for signing him. MLSE spends the money on all of their sports properties, their problem is they don't spend it wisely

In the other sports they spend up to the cap, the same as all the other teams in those leagues, but MLS with its wacky rules allows them to spend more - really as much they want, they could spend Beckham money if they want but everyone here will say that's a mistake and maybe it is, but we'll never find out.

The kickback rumour fits in well with Ensco's theory of the vacuum created by the teachers lack of real interest in the operation and then there would be a lack of control from Peddie and Anselmi (who should really follow-up any rumours like the kickback, and for all we know they did - this team is such a mess).

So all we can do is hope that whoever gets brought in can function well in this kind of situation and do a good job.

[Section 117]

Donadadoni and Queiroz are not very good coaches.

Donadoni has a two month spell with Livorno and inturn coach the Italian National team did squat with a team that just won the world cup. Then he leaves coaches napoli for a couple of months and was canned. So if he can do it with some of the best players in all of Italy what is he going to do with TFC???????

Quieroz won title with Portugal's "golden generation", had a failed stint with NY, was Sir Alex's number 2 and the took over Portugal and got canned. Again being a coach with the kind of talent that he had at his disposal with portugal (I am not portugese) and played anti football in South Africa. Then in Euro qualify gave 4 goals at home to some crap team i can't remeber. So really how good is he?

I for one hope it is both Marnier and Nicol

[billyfly]

During the all star game there was a graphic showing a list of the DPs that had been registered with MLS. His name was on it.

So weird that they never advertised him as such. At the time I was told over and over that he was not a DP.

[Section 117]

By the way mark my words Mariner is not the coach he will be the new GM

[torontocelt]

paul mariner? i am glad that i expect nothing of tfc because for all those who thought the mlse were going to splash the cash, well they must be pretty pissed by this choice? the mlse may have a lot of cash but they are never going to spend leaf or raptors money on a soccer team. i wish mariner all the best and i hope he is a success but in a week where we lose our best player perhaps, then this is not the appointment i would have hoped for. still expect nothing and you will not be too upset by the shit show that is the mlse.

[Oldtimer]

Paul Mariner is being brought in to be a North American style coach (not a European style manager or North American style General Manager) he's not going to be in charge of player acquisitions. contracts, transfers etc.

You're guessing that, but you can't be completely sure.

RSL when they re-organized after firing their incompetent GM, changed things so that the coach makes all of the player acquisition decisions, transfers, etc. Their GM handles the paperwork and the legalities. That model won them the MLS Cup in 2009.


By the way mark my words Mariner is not the coach he will be the new GM

That would work, too. Mariner knows MLS very well and has tonnes of contacts.

Then he would be bringing in his coach (I'm sure it won't be Daso).

However, the media reports seem to indicate that Mariner will be coaching, so he's more likely a coach with some GM responsibilities (the RSL model).

[bgnewf]

Mista was never a DP though. Paid DP money but was not a DP. I never saw anything that he was a DP.


I got a quote from Michelle Lissel that I posted on my blog on July 16th.

TFC PR contact Michelle Lissell confirmed with me directly in a telephone conversation this afternoon that Mista is indeed a Designated Player. She told me directly that Mista’s contract fills in her words “…a DP slot for the rest of the season…”.

The Mista signing was the first time in the history of the DP rule however where a player signed as such was not announced as a designated player. Every DP signing in MLS before or since Mista has always been announced as a designated player.

Furthermore MLS figures confirmed his guaranteed salary as $987,337.50 which was of course a DP amount.

[TOBOR !]

Experience and knowledge aside, I'm not particularly thrilled with his level of commitment. Admittedly, things aren't looking good for PAFC, and in the face of being out of work you have to look after your best interests, but his departure isn't going to help them in any way. Sorry, I guess I'm just angry that Plymouth are in this situation and am taking it out on PM... but, fuck me, how does this happen ?

[CretanBull]

Donadadoni and Queiroz are not very good coaches.

As long as we don't have to play AC Milan, I don't think it really matters how things went at Livorno ;)

I'm not going to argue the merits of either, but both would cause a splash and would be signs of a small club thinking big. At this point, that would go a long way. Donadoni is the hiring that a dreamer makes. Marriner is a practical hire. Sometimes dreams turn into nightmares, but practical is always boring.

[CretanBull]

You're guessing that, but you can't be completely sure.

RSL when they re-organized after firing their incompetent GM, changed things so that the coach makes all of the player acquisition decisions, transfers, etc. Their GM handles the paperwork and the legalities. That model won them the MLS Cup in 2009.


True, I'm basing that on other rumours out there that involve bringing in a GM too.

[Beach_Red]

Furthermore MLS figures confirmed his guaranteed salary as $987,337.50 which was of course a DP amount.


Well, whatever the details, all I really meant was that the signing showed the team is willing to spend $987,337.50 (that .50 is very important ;)) which for someone coming from NE is huge.

[Oldtimer]

During his time in Foxborough, Mariner was largely credited with aiding the development of the Revolution’s all-time leading scorer, Taylor Twellman. In a recent press conference announcing the end of his playing career, Twellman praised Mariner’s influence, going so far as to call head coach Steve Nicol’s hiring of Mariner as “the best thing he ever did” for Twellman’s career.
Now, Schilawski is hoping he can similarly absorb some of Mariner’s wisdom.
“He’s someone I’m really excited to have a chance to play for,” Schilawski said of Mariner. “Obviously it’s only 10 days in training, but with the kind of striker that he was, the kind of experience he’s had and other forwards who have played for him, it’s going to be a valuable tool to get feedback and hopefully learn as much as possible.


From one of Ensco's articles.

This is pretty impressive.

[BASE]

For 2 reasons I'm not worried...

2) He had a great track record with New England and their club has taken a bit of a nosedive since he left.

Yeah I guess New England doing poorly had nothing to do with the departure of Clint Dempsey, Michael Parkhurst, Steve Ralston, Jeff Larentowicz, a chronic and now career ending injury to Taylor Twellman and a substance abuse issue with Sharlie Joseph. Mariner and Nicol did a great job identyfing top college talent - that will probably be Mariners greatest attribute. I would laugh at all the credit Mo Johnston was given for being a top draft guru in MLS when his losing teams were picking the top picks in the draft order.

[BASE]

paul mariner? i am glad that i expect nothing of tfc because for all those who thought the mlse were going to splash the cash, well they must be pretty pissed by this choice? the mlse may have a lot of cash but they are never going to spend leaf or raptors money on a soccer team. i wish mariner all the best and i hope he is a success but in a week where we lose our best player perhaps, then this is not the appointment i would have hoped for. still expect nothing and you will not be too upset by the shit show that is the mlse.

Lets not forget that until Preki and Mo Johnston secure a new higher paying job (as unlikely as that will be) TFC and MLSE are stuck paying these worthless scammers until their contracts expire...Mo Jo has at least 3 more years doesn't he? Sad but reality is TFC probably has a substantial amount tied to these two - where they can kick their feet up and enjoy life for the next few years.

[billyfly]

I got a quote from Michelle Lissel that I posted on my blog on July 16th.

TFC PR contact Michelle Lissell confirmed with me directly in a telephone conversation this afternoon that Mista is indeed a Designated Player. She told me directly that Mista’s contract fills in her words “…a DP slot for the rest of the season…”.

The Mista signing was the first time in the history of the DP rule however where a player signed as such was not announced as a designated player. Every DP signing in MLS before or since Mista has always been announced as a designated player.

Furthermore MLS figures confirmed his guaranteed salary as $987,337.50 which was of course a DP amount.

Thanks for clarifying. And I can see why there is confusion just based on your info in this post. Why would they keep it "hidden" so to speak?

[v00d00daddy]

What kind of style of play does Mariner like to implement?

Anyone know?

[ensco]

What kind of style of play does Mariner like to implement?

Anyone know?


He tried to implement a 4-3-1-2 at Plymouth, but he inherited the players who were already in a 4-4-2 system, and pretty quickly went back to that.

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/Pallid-Pilgrims/article-1628230-detail/article.html
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/news/Argyle/article-1810976-detail/article.html

[Davenport]

IMHO If he did come here it would be a fine appointment.

[Shway]

in a perfect world having nicol and mariner together, would be something worth looking forward to see






please santa......you never got me what i wanted for christmas, its never too late

[LesH]

What track record does he have in MLS ? The record of an assistant...its one thing to be an assistant and other thing to be the guy...entirely different. Why do we keep accepting second class solutions ??

Because "we"... the MLSE (who happens to be the owner of TFC) is a third class sports organization.

It also happens MLSE to be a first class business organization judged on it's main activity, which is to make a profit. But as far as the footie is concerned who the fuck cares about this business organization first class?

[LesH]

Lets not forget that until Preki and Mo Johnston secure a new higher paying job (as unlikely as that will be) TFC and MLSE are stuck paying these worthless scammers until their contracts expire...Mo Jo has at least 3 more years doesn't he? Sad but reality is TFC probably has a substantial amount tied to these two - where they can kick their feet up and enjoy life for the next few years.

Scammers? Maybe... but let's not forget that usually scammers only scam either idiots or greedy bastards. Now it's your choice in which of these categories MLSE is fitting. Or maybe idiot greedy bastards?

Anyways, Mo and maybe even Preki should send a new year's greeting card to the MLSE FO, with their naked arses pictured and the "Thank you very much MLSE!" words.

[wzhxvy]

So Mariner is the GM ? huh ? now I am confused...who is the coach ???

[ensco]

So Mariner is the GM ? huh ? now I am confused...who is the coach ???

I think someone said that above...but that's not what the Star wrote, or what anybody has reported. The Star says Mariner will be the coach. Dobson is reporting speculation about Nicol as GM. That's what we know.

[Huyton]

Will Mariner bring Carver with him?

[wzhxvy]

^ He might...is TFC not paying out his old contract ? :-)

[deltox]

whoever the new coach/GM will be, can we agree to not harp on them for a while?


maybe set a period of time that we need to see results for before we turn on them?

give them a chance to succeed or fail first.

[ManUtd4ever]

whoever the new coach/GM will be, can we agree to not harp on them for a while?


maybe set a period of time that we need to see results for before we turn on them?

give them a chance to succeed or fail first.

LOL, good question...

Given the lack of time the new management team will have to prepare for the upcoming season (yet again!), I think it's only fair to judge the results at the end of the season. I'm not expecting any miracles regardless of who is hired. I just want to see a solid foundation built and the team gradually improve over the course of the season. It would be nice to avoid the annual nosedive in the standings after July...

[ensco]

^Well, it all depends.

If the new guy comes in with the right setup, and he's losing, I think this is fair. It's going to take time.

But if the new guy comes in the "wrong way", ie with the wrong setup, as Preki did, then the new guy is fair game when the blame lies with the regime, because he'd part of the old regime. This is why there was zero reservoir of goodwill for Preki once he started losing.

[ManUtd4ever]

^Well, it all depends.

If the new guy comes in with the right setup, and he's losing, I think this is fair. It's going to take time.

But if the new guy comes in the "wrong way", ie with the wrong setup, as Preki did, then the new guy is fair game when the blame lies with the regime, because he'd part of the old regime. This is why there was zero reservoir of goodwill for Preki once he started losing.

I would agree with that, considering that the dead weight has already been cleared from the roster this time around...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

oh man deltox, nothing would bring me greater happiness, sad thing is some people are never happy whether its style of play, mlse, who the coached played for previously, who the coach coached previously will always find an excuse or a reason to complain. Personally, unless its a straight up crap move (once again everyones got a diff idea of that) people SHOULD give the dude a chance and time, its highly doubtful someone can just come here with the previous mismanagement, various caps and pressure and win the cup.
In two years time maybe, at this point, I doubt it, unless we had sigi or bruce and they had all the power

[razor787]

Will Mariner bring Carver with him?

That would be hillarious haha

[Walnut]

This is wonderful -- it is like we have signed John Carver all over again!!!!!

2011 is going to be like 2009 all over again.

Just what we needed, an assistant coach with very limited managerial experience.

No wonder DeRo is looking for a way out :picard:

[Soccer-Ts]

Hey, any time you can replicate the success of the Leafs in another sport, you gotta take the opportunity :facepalm:



Man you put me on the carpet laughing with this -

[Cashcleaner]

TFC make a shit load of money and can't spend it on the roster, so why not build the best front office staff, best coaching staff, scouting department etc?

The hiring of Klinsmann brought with it rumours of Roberto Donadoni and Carlos Queiroz. In two months we've gone from former Italian and Portugese national team coaches to the old assistant from New England.

I'm not down on Mariner, by all accounts he's a solid manager who's been linked to a lot of MLS jobs (meaning he's been in demand before), but you'll have to forgive some of us if we got excited by signs that our club was thinking big - for once - and came crashing back down to earth in a matter of weeks.

Needed to be said yet again. There is absolutely no fucking reason why we can't spend top dollar on a manager, coach, and support staff to make this club the best on the continent.

MLS dictates that we can only spend $2.6 million on players? Fair enough, we'll just dip into the ocean of cash and bring in a manager who can make something work with limited resources in terms of talent. That is a point we as supporters should rightly shine some light on.

[TFCRegina]

Needed to be said yet again. There is absolutely no fucking reason why we can't spend top dollar on a manager, coach, and support staff to make this club the best on the continent.

MLS dictates that we can only spend $2.6 million on players? Fair enough, we'll just dip into the ocean of cash and bring in a manager who can make something work with limited resources in terms of talent. That is a point we as supporters should rightly shine some light on.

Find me someone who isn't already with a major club, and is willing to come to MLS and we'll talk.

It's easier said than done. The reality of the situation is we keep using conventional techniques to find managers. This club needs statistics monkeys to find their own Wenger...because that's the only way we're going to find an overperforming manager for this team that's willing to come here.

Getting a high priced European manager is no guarantee of success, especially if they aren't a guy who overperforms with a crap budget.

[Nuvinho]

Kristian Jack saying that Mariner will be an assistant coach.


KristianJack (http://twitter.com/KristianJack)

I am hearing #tfc (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23tfc) will hold a press conference next week to announce Paul Mariner has joined their coaching staff.


KristianJack (http://twitter.com/KristianJack)

Although many people believe he will be the next #tfc (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23tfc) head coach I was told today that he will be an assistant.I guess we'll find out nxt wk

[Darlofletch]

Kristian Jack saying that Mariner will be an assistant coach.

well that's got to ramp up the nicol speculation even more.

[CretanBull]

Find me someone who isn't already with a major club, and is willing to come to MLS and we'll talk.

Instead of asking Cash to find the person, how about we hire a consulting firm that's headed up by one of the best players of his generation who has countless contacts throughout the soccer world? Oh yeah, we did that and he came back with a name that surprised no one, a guy who's been linked to at least 3 MLS jobs in the past - including a posting with TFC. We paid Klinsmann to tell us what we already knew (which is brilliant for him!). The end result makes our bold move of hiring Klinsmann seem like a sad joke, and ultimately pointless. "You know that guy who you wanted before, the guy who's name comes up every time there's a job opening in the MLS? Yeah? Well, as it turns out he's the best guy for the job. I'll have my secretary send you my bill."

[Brooker]

Paul Mariner on our coaching staff. I fucking like that.

[CretanBull]

well that's got to ramp up the nicol speculation even more.

I would think so...Nicol as manager/head coach, Mariner as assistant coach and Earl stays on as the pencil-pusher GM?

[jloome]

I would think so...Nicol as manager/head coach, Mariner as assistant coach and Earl stays on as the pencil-pusher GM?

More likely Nicol as gm/head coach, marriner as assistant (with a promise to take over as head when nicol goes fully upstairs in a few years), Daso as assistant, Earl running the academy and helping build a proper scouting and talent identification structure.

THat may be new years wishful thinking.

[Beach_Red]

Instead of asking Cash to find the person, how about we hire a consulting firm that's headed up by one of the best players of his generation who has countless contacts throughout the soccer world? Oh yeah, we did that and he came back with a name that surprised no one, a guy who's been linked to at least 3 MLS jobs in the past - including a posting with TFC. We paid Klinsmann to tell us what we already knew (which is brilliant for him!). The end result makes our bold move of hiring Klinsmann seem like a sad joke, and ultimately pointless. "You know that guy who you wanted before, the guy who's name comes up every time there's a job opening in the MLS? Yeah? Well, as it turns out he's the best guy for the job. I'll have my secretary send you my bill."


Maybe Klinsmann spoke to Gord Kirk or Cliff Fletcher - these guys have a history of paying people to find them the most obvious choices.

And we spent four years saying Mo was to blame for not signing better people, how can we now start saying it's impossible to bring in better people?

But this might still work out. What do we care if they wasted their money on a consultant as long as we get stable, professional management.

Anyway, I just hope Daso has been kept informed of everything and been given some reasonable options - he's done everything the team asked him to do and I hope they treat him with some respect.

[CretanBull]

Maybe Klinsmann spoke to Gord Kirk or Cliff Fletcher - these guys have a history of paying people to find them the most obvious choices.

It's great work if you can get it!



And we spent four years saying Mo was to blame for not signing better people, how can we now start saying it's impossible to bring in better people?

But this might still work out. What do we care if they wasted their money on a consultant as long as we get stable, professional management.

Anyway, I just hope Daso has been kept informed of everything and been given some reasonable options - he's done everything the team asked him to do and I hope they treat him with some respect.

I'm confident that Mariner and/or Nicol will - at bare minimum - be better than Preki. I think that they're run things differently and set a different (less confrontational) tone. And if we keep losing anyway, at least we'll be losing entertaining games.

[jloome]

Instead of asking Cash to find the person, how about we hire a consulting firm that's headed up by one of the best players of his generation who has countless contacts throughout the soccer world? Oh yeah, we did that and he came back with a name that surprised no one, a guy who's been linked to at least 3 MLS jobs in the past - including a posting with TFC. We paid Klinsmann to tell us what we already knew (which is brilliant for him!). The end result makes our bold move of hiring Klinsmann seem like a sad joke, and ultimately pointless. "You know that guy who you wanted before, the guy who's name comes up every time there's a job opening in the MLS? Yeah? Well, as it turns out he's the best guy for the job. I'll have my secretary send you my bill."

Only one part of the job. They also hired him to advise them on how to revise their football operation from top to bottom, including youth development. But point taken.

[David_Oliveira]

Instead of asking Cash to find the person, how about we hire a consulting firm that's headed up by one of the best players of his generation who has countless contacts throughout the soccer world? Oh yeah, we did that and he came back with a name that surprised no one, a guy who's been linked to at least 3 MLS jobs in the past - including a posting with TFC. We paid Klinsmann to tell us what we already knew (which is brilliant for him!). The end result makes our bold move of hiring Klinsmann seem like a sad joke, and ultimately pointless. "You know that guy who you wanted before, the guy who's name comes up every time there's a job opening in the MLS? Yeah? Well, as it turns out he's the best guy for the job. I'll have my secretary send you my bill."

I thought Klinsmann's main goal was to set up a philosophy for the team from the academy up. Might be that the coach and gm to be hired fill this philosophy.

[jazzy]

I would agree with that, considering that the dead weight has already been cleared from the roster this time around...

esp since if Mariner, comes in? is this not more of the past?....English style, good guy, poor coaching record, celeb image, no results?.....we are again pawns

[ensco]

I think we need to move off the idea that Klinsmann has or had some kind of meaningful deal with TFC. He clearly does not.

Based on what we've seen, it's most likely that his arrangement is much more of a "sounding board" role than an "active managerial" role.

The team needed to rent his name badly, given the crisis of credibility around the team - for both the players and the fans. Klinsmann's signing, in the middle of the season ticket sales period to the waitlist, was no coincidence.

Not saying it was a bad idea, btw. Of course it's not my money, and it all depends on how good a sounding board he turned out to be, what he was paid, and how big an impact he had on ticket sales.

[CretanBull]

Only one part of the job. They also hired him to advise them on how to revise their football operation from top to bottom, including youth development. But point taken.


I thought Klinsmann's main goal was to set up a philosophy for the team from the academy up. Might be that the coach and gm to be hired fill this philosophy.

To be honest, I think that was all BS. His job was to identify a philosophy and hire someone to see it through. It seems far too convenient for Klinsmann to have done this kind of in depth corporate soul-searching and the perfect candidate for his new model just happened to be the most obvious choice.

Does anyone think that the new guy's powers will be limited by Klinsmann's advice? Like if the new GM wants to focus on a particular area of youth developement, do you think he'll be over-ridden if it clashes with Klinsmann's advice? Personally I doubt it. In all likelihood, Klinsmann took a look at how we did things and offered his views on what he thinks works and what doesn't. I can't see the new team being forced to rigidly work within the confines of Klinsmann's suggestions.

I think their notion of a 'team philosophy' stems from their lack of footy vernacular...it was their way of saying "we'd rather look like Arsenal than Stoke - no more Prekis, ok?"

I'd LOVE to see a list of how we did things before and after Klinsmann's hiring and see what has actually changed (and see how long those things stay changed).

[UltraSuperMegaMo]

I assume if TFC is announcing Mariner as an assistant next week, they must be announcing the head coach too. Even TFC isn't so brutal that they'd announce the signing of an assistant for a team without a head coach.

Or are they?

[TFC07]

I assume if TFC is announcing Mariner as an assistant next week, they must be announcing the head coach too. Even TFC isn't so brutal that they'd announce the signing of an assistant for a team without a head coach.

Or are they?

We are talking about TFC FO here. So of course they're cappable of doing something like that.

[wzhxvy]

I find it difficult to believe Mariner will be an assistant. He might be head coach with someone else as the Manager but I highly doubt he will be the assistant coach.

[Huyton]

We’d rather play like Arsenal than Stoke.
Yes we would.
If we could,
We surely should

We’d rather make the Post Season than choke.
Yes we would.
If we could,
We surely should

Oh TFC please make it worth our while
Yes you should.
If you could,
You surely should

And play with heart while turning on the style,
Yes we would.
If you could,
You surely should

[Detroit_TFC]

It is almost impossible to make any sense out of this unless the coach is in place but just hasn't been announced. But, as leaky as the FO seems to be information wise, if there was somebody in place we would have found out already. Mariner coming back to US to be asst to Daso makes no sense. Mariner coming back to US to work with Nicol doesn't make much sense either, that's what he left not that long ago.

[ManUtd4ever]

More likely Nicol as gm/head coach, marriner as assistant (with a promise to take over as head when nicol goes fully upstairs in a few years), Daso as assistant, Earl running the academy and helping build a proper scouting and talent identification structure.

THat may be new years wishful thinking.

I would be thrilled with this management structure. My only concern is Daso. Whether he was justified or not, he upstaged the head coach last season which set a negative precedent. How will Daso handle a demotion after being the interim head coach? There is great risk of a clash of philosophies with Mariner and hopefully Nicol...

[ensco]

I find it difficult to believe Mariner will be an assistant. He might be head coach with someone else as the Manager but I highly doubt he will be the assistant coach.

He's not exactly in a comfortable situation where he can sit back and pick and choose. Face it, we're not getting anyone like that, given our ownership/history. Some guys have the luxury of doing that (Sigi chose Seattle just as much as they chose him) but that ain't happening here.

Mariner was/is facing the reality that, barring a miracle, his paycheck at Plymouth ends in February, once the receivership process is concluded.

Mariner just went from the number 2 man to the number 1 man and back to number 2 at Plymouth, in the space of months. So it seems quite apparent that he's comfortable as a number 2, if the setup makes sense.

So we'll see. It depends.

[Nuvinho]

more confusion.....assistant coach or GM?


KristianJack (http://twitter.com/KristianJack)

#tfc (http://twitter.com/search?q=%23tfc) - 4 those asking about Nicol. I cannot see it. Mariner will not be in his shadow again. Don't rule out Mariner getting tech dir, GM job

[wzhxvy]

He's not exactly in a comfortable situation where he can sit back and pick and choose. Face it, we're not getting anyone like that, given our ownership/history. Some guys have the luxury of doing that (Sigi chose Seattle just as much as they chose him) but that ain't happening here.

Mariner was/is facing the reality that, barring a miracle, his paycheck at Plymouth ends in February, once the receivership process is concluded.

Mariner just went from the number 2 man to the number 1 man and back to number 2 at Plymouth, in the space of months. So it seems quite apparent that he's comfortable as a number 2, if the setup makes sense.

So we'll see. It depends.
Yes we will see...

[Yohan]

esp since if Mariner, comes in? is this not more of the past?....English style, good guy, poor coaching record, celeb image, no results?.....we are again pawns
I hate to remind people that last guy who won the MLS Cup is an English manager

[TFCRegina]

I hate to remind people that last guy who won the MLS Cup is an English manager

Playing direct style, we might add.

[ag futbol]

Rah rah and all, but one playoff run notwithstanding, are the rapids really an example of how do run a team? really? Wasn't that impressed, they slipped into playoffs in the 7th spot and squeaked by some teams, but there was nothing impressive there. History will always remember them as the winners, but i'll peg their success as unlikely as opposed to calculated.

That being said i don't think Mariner is Gary Smith, and i mean that in a good way.

[Yohan]

Rah rah and all, but one playoff run notwithstanding, are the rapids really an example of how do run a team? really? Wasn't that impressed, they slipped into playoffs in the 7th spot and squeaked by some teams, but there was nothing impressive there. History will always remember them as the winners, but i'll peg their success as unlikely as opposed to calculated.

That being said i don't think Mariner is Gary Smith, and i mean that in a good way.
RSL slipped in the year before and won the Cup. which team was the most consistent team in MLS this season? RSL

whether Rapids will follow the same trend we shall see. but teams that doesn't have huge turnover rate seems to build upon their success last few seasons

[Roogsy]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Mariner might take the GM role??? Other than his stint under Nicol at the Revs, what experience does he have at being a GM anywhere much less managing the MLS salary cap?

And where does this leave the seach for a coach/manager?

I guess we all really do have to wait for TFC's announcement but boy do I feel sick to my stomach. If really truly they were thinking of reducing the GM role to an adminsitrative one, isn't Mariner the exact wrong guy for that position? Unless the rumours are wrong and they in fact are looking to keep the GM role as influential as when Mo was running things. In which case, Mariner's cap management and international contacts become all the more influential on the team's success, neither of which he appears to have in spades. I don't see how Mariner would fit either type of GM role. This is not a first-class front office, not by any means.

This was a comment I left on Big Newf's blog today on the DeRo situation but it pertains to the management situation as well:



Salary cap management is definitely a must and yes, releasing DeRo should be an option considered. However, I am surprised at the ease with which people think “two or three” quality players are able to be picked up. That’s the holy grail of success in the MLS and there are no guarantees that the new management, consisting of a rookie GM and a coach who has not established any kind of know-how in MLS cap management would be able to achieve. In fact, I would submit that player agents will be salivating at dealing with a rookie front office in an attempt to fleece them. All the while, guaranteed goals were left at the table because TFC could not manage the relationship.

[ag futbol]

With all due respect to Newf, I don't think it will be anywhere near the fleece job he's predicting.

RBNY did quite well with their offseason acquisitions this year, probably including the best free agent signing in the league in the form of Joel Lindpere. Their setup seems to be in line with what ours will be. Head guy with global experience, underlying staff with MLS experience. The league is changing, it's not as rinky-dink as people are making it out to be.

If an overwhelming knowledge of the rules is what was required of every leader, every CEO would be a lawyer. not so much.

[Damien]

According to Ives:



There are conflicting reports coming out of Europe that are identifying Mariner as the team's next head coach and Winter as TFC technical director, but sources tell SBI Winter will be the head coach while Mariner oversees personnel management.

[trane]

I am trully starting to think, that MLSE puts out some rumours out there to see what the reaction of the populace would be.

[Oldtimer]

I'm not worried about who is who, because the new management style will be consensus-based.

[Beach_Red]

I am trully starting to think, that MLSE puts out some rumours out there to see what the reaction of the populace would be.


Yeah, I know, it sounds crazy but looks like it happens.

[trane]

^ I think that if you look back on all the "rumours" and what happned subsequently one could make a credible arguemnt that this is the case.

[Cashcleaner]

A very plausible theory, no doubt.

But would that necessarily be a bad thing? I'm not suggesting that the boards here or elsewhere are deep well of soccer knowledge, but we should bear in mind that the club's COO himself said that he was in over his head when it came to the sport and it's management.

[trane]

^ If they do do it, I do not think that they do it because they think the board are full of knowledge, but because they want to make moves that are popular with the supporters.

It does not have to be a bad thing, but if you realy run a club, only due to what the polular move would be then that would be problematic.

[menefreghista]

I did notice Paul Beirne lurking on this forum and the U-Sector forum yesterday. I guess he was doing some research on the fan reaction to the new hires.

[Cashcleaner]

^ If they do do it, I do not think that they do it because they think the board are full of knowledge, but because they want to make moves that are popular with the supporters.

It does not have to be a bad thing, but if you really run a club, only due to what the popular move would be then that would be problematic.

Good point, of course. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bit of Column A and a bit of Column B to be honest. Like you said, not really the best way to run a club, but I'll take it over them sitting on their hands and letting another Mo Johnston call the shots. :D

[tfcmanu]

It looks like Paul Mariner as Technical Director and Aron Winter as Coach.

According to multiple reports, former New England Revolution assistant coach Paul Mariner will be named technical director at Toronto FC. Mariner’s name was originally linked to the head coaching position in Toronto until Aron Winter’s name recently surfaced as the new favorite to take the coaching reins.
http://nesoccertoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/mariner-240x300.jpg (http://nesoccertoday.com/?attachment_id=2087) Paul Mariner, who left his position as assistant coach of the Revolution in 2009, looks set to take over as technical director in Toronto.

Recent reports also indicate that Winter will, in fact, take over as head coach in Toronto, and will be working closely with Mariner and recently-hired consultant Jurgen Klinsmann, the former Germany coach who’s name has been repeatedly linked to the U.S. Men’s National Team head coaching post....etc

http://nesoccertoday.com/?p=2085

[Ossington Mental Youth]

ill be a bit surprised if hes technical director, GM maybe, definitely the dude bringing in players but i dunno bout technical director

[Oldtimer]

Recent reports also indicate that Winter will, in fact, take over as head coach in Toronto, and will be working closely with Mariner and recently-hired consultant Jurgen Klinsmann,

I am glad and relieved to see that Klinsmann will continue with TFC to help with a smooth transition. Hopefully he'll be helping out throughout this season.

[Roogsy]

I really like Winter as coach.

I am underwhelmed with Mariner as technical director.

But it's all an improvement over last year anyways so whatever.

[ensco]

I am glad and relieved to see that Klinsmann will continue with TFC to help with a smooth transition. Hopefully he'll be helping out throughout this season.

I am dying to see what this means. He is the glue that can make this work and keep the beancounters at a safe distance.

[trane]

I really like Winter as coach.

I am underwhelmed with Mariner as technical director.

But it's all an improvement over last year anyways so whatever.

I hope that Winter has the freedom to do what he needs to do.