'TFC shifts GM course'

[Parkdale]

http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?856-Earl-Cochrane-to-be-named-TFC-GM

thanks to Ben Rycroft for putting this out as fast as he could.


Canadian Soccer News has learned that up until last week, Toronto FC's search for a General Manager wasn't going to fall very far from the tree.

Two sources, one a FIFA player agent with ties to Toronto FC and the other a respected member of the Toronto soccer community, confirmed to CSN that the next GM for Toronto FC had been slated to be the current Interim General Manager Earl Cochrane.


now go check the link for the full (kinda full) story

[nobodybeatsthewiz]

surprising?

[Parkdale]

surprising?


nope. not in the slightest.

[shwade]

that was ambitious.

[Azerban]

parky either your reading comprehension is bad or mine is

[Pigfynn]

^^ya???

[__wowza]

the article states that they've revised the role.
so we're actually getting a single manager, is that correct?

the GM takes care of "head office stuffs" and the manager takes care of the day to day operations of the club and what happens on the pitch.

[Waggy]

Ya Parky, I don't think that's what the article said. Just that he was the leading candidate, but they are still interviewing

[Yeoman]

we better get some fucking good fucking coach
or i'm just sticking with the academy this year

[shwade]

Just read it...Cochrane isn't confirmed yet, they're waiting on someone else.

[Section 117]

I did miss read something here? It says he was suppose to be now it is on hold. Am I seeing things?

[Parkdale]

sorry, headline changed.


too much typing - so frantic!

[BuSaPuNk]

Okay so let's get this straight. We hire Klinnsman to find sutiable guys to put into place GM and Coach. Nothing. They'll probably come up with the lame excuse, "Earl knows the team and the guys in place and can work directly with them...blah blah blah."

Same shit they pulled with the leafs. Big team scouting the leauge for a GM when we all knew Burke was coming. ML$ & E WASTES YOUR MONEY!

[Waggy]

we better get some fucking good fucking coach
or i'm just sticking with the academy this year

Milltown FC!

[sidvan]

Milltown FC!

What waggy said!!!!!

[reggie]

what a fucking joke this club is..what have they been doing the 3 monthes other then counting our money.

[Section 117]

With the description it looks like it is going to be Quireroz, but he has had a horrible record as a coach.

Not very awe inspring. I rather keep what we have them him. He is exactly like Carver a great number 2 but horrible manager. He couldn't do squat with Portugaland he is going to be our saviour????

Good fucking luck

[mclaren]

MLSE seems to lack imagination - always hiring from within, always ending in bad results. Have they not learned anything?

[Yohan]

With the description it looks like it is going to be Quireroz, but he has had a horrible record as a coach.

Not very awe inspring. I rather keep what we have them him. He is exactly like Carver a great number 2 but horrible manager. He couldn't do squat with Portugaland he is going to be our saviour????

Good fucking luck
and failed at his only season in MLS at NY

[mclaren]

what a fucking joke this club is..what have they been doing the 3 monthes other then counting our money.

The one solace I have is that for the first time they haven't been counting my money this year.

[Stryker]

"We had put forward a guy with former World Cup experience, and time at Manchester United and he hadn't gotten a sniff...We were told at the time that it was going to be Cochrane

Im done. Fuck TFC, Fuck MLSE.

[Nestease]

The Cochrane Shuffle. Is this guy GM worthy?

December 27

“Dwayne is not going on trial with Celtic or any other club,” Cochrane told MLSsoccer.com. “We have not received word from anyone and expect him to be with TFC when training camp opens next month.”

Cochrane said he’s not surprised to see De Rosario's name being linked to European teams. He suggested that the player's agent may be responsible for the rumor.

December 28

“We were unaware of Dwayne's plan to train with Celtic and we will contact them to understand the situation. Obviously, if there is interest in a short-term loan arrangement by either him or Celtic, they will need to approach us and the League formally and we will consider [it] based on what is in TFC's best interest.”

December 29

"I was contacted a little more than a month ago by Dwayne (De Rosario) and his representative - asking if we would entertain a loan or training stint. We said we would but would need assurances and final sign off on it - that an agreement would need to be in place that we were comfortable with."

"Dwayne's agent contacted me and asked if we would let Dwayne train with a club and we said we would, but again would have to have something official in place that would provide us with some assurances that should Dwayne get hurt we would be covered. They understood that completely."

"I have not received anything official from Dwayne or his agent or Celtic. MLS will reach out to Celtic to clear up this situation and will do what is best for Toronto FC.”

[Beach_Red]

The article has some interesting stuff in it. Like this:

The agent, who declined to name the coach, stated that the choice to go with Cochrane was a financial one and that it was designed to free up more funds to be spent on the next manager of TFC.

But there's no salary cap on management, so what sets the team's budget for these positions? People keep telling me MLSE isn't cheap, so why would they be looking at it like this?

[tfcleeds]

Looks like the Academy it will be this year...

[TFC07]

CSA still thinking of setting up a Canadian pro league? If so, then goodbye TFC!

[Beach_Red]

With the description it looks like it is going to be Quireroz, but he has had a horrible record as a coach.

Not very awe inspring. I rather keep what we have them him. He is exactly like Carver a great number 2 but horrible manager. He couldn't do squat with Portugaland he is going to be our saviour????

Good fucking luck


But the article says it's for GM and Paul Mariner will be the coach...

[reggie]

The one solace I have is that for the first time they haven't been counting my money this year.
lucky you..
i can tell you it will the last time they count my money if the the coch or daso are anywhere near running this club.

[Parkdale]

The article has some interesting stuff in it. Like this:

The agent, who declined to name the coach, stated that the choice to go with Cochrane was a financial one and that it was designed to free up more funds to be spent on the next manager of TFC.

But there's no salary cap on management, so what sets the team's budget for these positions? People keep telling me MLSE isn't cheap, so why would they be looking at it like this?


very interesting point.

Unless they are looking at a 'Million Dollar Man', I can't see that being part of it.

[Waggy]

What waggy said!!!!!

Man, the TFC troubles that spawned Milltown FC seem so quaint compared to what we're facing today. I still remember VPjr talking about the direction TFC was heading down at that first meeting, I thought he was being a bit fatalistic. Clearly the man is a prophet. Actually wait a minute... VPjr for TFC GM! Start the movement!

(Only half joking. I have full faith he could do at LEAST as good a job as Cochrane, and I feel like I'm insulting Dino by saying that)

[MFG1]

I never regretted for a moment to give up my season tickets for good, remember kids here is but another example that makes it ever so bitter sweet. Give yourselves a raise for 2011 MLSE, you deserve it for running such an awesome circus.

[Darlofletch]

remember when they said this, post town halls.

We're working hard to assemble a management team that is second to none in Major League Soccer. We are looking for leadership that will establish the vision for this team and create a winning culture so that Toronto FC will consistently compete for a championship.

[Section 117]

Even better a fucking coach who had his team DEMOTED WTF get a better fucking candidate...

[Roogsy]

remember when they said this, post town halls.

We're working hard to assemble a management team that is second to none in Major League Soccer. We are looking for leadership that will establish the vision for this team and create a winning culture so that Toronto FC will consistently compete for a championship.


But they said it so convincingly.

[mclaren]

Here's a novel idea: Hiring people with a good track-record in their respective jobs. I know it's an alien concept to TFC, but please give it a try.

[Pyeddo]

I'm glad I gave up my tickets. ML$E can take their yearly price increases and weekly smoke screens and shove them both right up their asses. This lot can be trusted as much as a hooker with your wallet.

Total and utter amateur hour in the TFC FO.

[Darlofletch]

so it was going to be earl, but now they're not sure, but more than likely it will be earl.

not really much of a scoop, and if it ends up happening, that will be a tremendous disappointment.


well, no need for me to abort then angry de ro related blogpost then is there. bloody mlse, can't even do distractions properly.

[Section 117]

I love how some people come out of the wood work just to bash MLSE...

Good job guys, keep patting yourself on the back

[Waggy]

But they said it so convincingly.

Thats what Whitney Houston said. At least Bobby Brown got charged eventually.

[Globetrotter]

The Cochrane Shuffle. Is this guy GM worthy?

December 27

“Dwayne is not going on trial with Celtic or any other club,” Cochrane told MLSsoccer.com. “We have not received word from anyone and expect him to be with TFC when training camp opens next month.”

Cochrane said he’s not surprised to see De Rosario's name being linked to European teams. He suggested that the player's agent may be responsible for the rumor.

December 28

“We were unaware of Dwayne's plan to train with Celtic and we will contact them to understand the situation. Obviously, if there is interest in a short-term loan arrangement by either him or Celtic, they will need to approach us and the League formally and we will consider [it] based on what is in TFC's best interest.”

December 29

"I was contacted a little more than a month ago by Dwayne (De Rosario) and his representative - asking if we would entertain a loan or training stint. We said we would but would need assurances and final sign off on it - that an agreement would need to be in place that we were comfortable with."

"Dwayne's agent contacted me and asked if we would let Dwayne train with a club and we said we would, but again would have to have something official in place that would provide us with some assurances that should Dwayne get hurt we would be covered. They understood that completely."

"I have not received anything official from Dwayne or his agent or Celtic. MLS will reach out to Celtic to clear up this situation and will do what is best for Toronto FC.”

Sounds like a TFC/MLSE type of guy. Mo2.

[prizby]

nothing against Earl

but for fuck sakes...i expected more

[Beach_Red]

Here's a novel idea: Hiring people with a good track-record in their respective jobs. I know it's an alien concept to TFC, but please give it a try.

It's pretty clear that they need someone with a lot of experience to come in and navigate this front office. It's really no place for someone to try and learn the job.

If Earl Cochrane is really going to become a good GM he needs someone with a very big reputation between him and the suits of MLSE, someone who can tell them clearly, "Look, I know this sport and I know this league," or he'll just get crushed, too.

[BuSaPuNk]

I love how some people come out of the wood work just to bash MLSE...

Good job guys, keep patting yourself on the back

Your always going to have that happen. It's the saving grace to some people to have a faceless orgainization to blame for everything.

ML$E has failed at everything for the last 8+ years. What do we have to look at in 10+ years for this organization?

1 NBA Division Title.
2 Voyagers Cup Titles.
..........that's it?

What I wouldn't give to have Rogers come in here man. Atleast they have the Jays going in the right direction.

[Rudi]

well, no need for me to abort then angry de ro related blogpost then is there. bloody mlse, can't even do distractions properly.
Is it a distraction if - as the article states - things have been in the works for
a while, or are you simply grasping at straws?

[Keystone FC]

The article has some interesting stuff in it. Like this:

The agent, who declined to name the coach, stated that the choice to go with Cochrane was a financial one and that it was designed to free up more funds to be spent on the next manager of TFC.

But there's no salary cap on management, so what sets the team's budget for these positions? People keep telling me MLSE isn't cheap, so why would they be looking at it like this?
This is my question as well. I look at it as either a good thing or a MLSE thing.
This could be looked at as a big name mgr is in the works but has to be enticed to come to MLS (let's face it...J League has more draw for top notch coaches than MLS does). Not to mention the on again/off again/ on again situations with players, staff, fans, and media makes Toronto a hostile environment for ANY new coach. I would want top dollar as well in compensation for dealing with this mess.
For a 5th year club TFC has had more ups and downs than a mid level EPL club....okay....more downs.
Regardless...Toronto Til I Die.

[Waggy]

Your always going to have that happen. It's the saving grace to some people to have a faceless orgainization to blame for everything.

ML$E has failed at everything for the last 8+ years. What do we have to look at in 10+ years for this organization?

1 NBA Division Title.
2 Voyagers Cup Titles.
..........that's it?

What I wouldn't give to have Rogers come in here man. Atleast they have the Jays going in the right direction.

The Division title was more a reflection of the Nets going into the toilet that year than anything positive the Raps did. As shown by their success since then.

[Stryker]

What I wouldn't give to have Rogers come in here man. Atleast they have the Jays going in the right direction.

I'd rather have ANYONE else right about now.

Hey MLSE, how about Russel Oliver for new GM, I think he'd know how to attract some good players.


http://torontoist.com/attachments/toronto_david/20100713xx.jpg

[trane]

we better get some fucking good fucking coach
or i'm just sticking with the academy this year


If this is the case, AND they do not get a REAL FUCKING GOOD FUCKING COACH, I will never step foot into that stadium again, unless it is to support and opposing team. Honestly, the supporters have given this fucking organization so much and they keep on fucking us. FUCK THEM.

I hope this is not true and it if is true they better bring a serious serious coaching candidate.

[Parkdale]

YES! We have No Bananas or something like that.

[Section 117]

Any big name manager will walk out of the MLS within 3 months if the came to coach anywhere in the MLS

[Roogsy]

Here's a novel idea: Hiring people with a good track-record in their respective jobs. I know it's an alien concept to TFC, but please give it a try.


In the real world...companies identify what they want and many times WHO they want specifically and then go after them mercilessly. It's an all-out attempt to land the person who they think is the best person for the job. Needless to say that is not what is happening here.

In MLSE-land, they'd rather spend the cost of doing that on consultants who tell them that the job they're doing is pretty good so far.

They've basically hired an expensive recuiter folks. A recruiter that gets paid their fees even when the position is filled internally. That's a cushy job mates. Just ask English Rachel how sweet a deal that would be for any recruiter.

[Red Skies At Night]

I'm not so concerned or upset with the idea of Cochrane as an Administrative GM overseeing scouting; player development; the 'klinsmann' vision, etc, as he is likely a competent administrator (the dero thing aside) and in a corp structure like MLSE, promoting from within is important... my concern is who do they entrust with the football operations? are mariner or queiroz good options? I don't know.

[Batman]

Any big name manager will walk out of the MLS within 3 months if the came to coach anywhere in the MLS

pardon?

[Keystone FC]

Here's a novel idea: Hiring people with a good track-record in their respective jobs. I know it's an alien concept to TFC, but please give it a try.
Usually people with those kinds of credentials want to move up to a better situation. We need someone like that BUT who is also willing to work with a broken system. Not to many of those types out there to choose from or willing to come into a situation like ours.

[Parkdale]

pardon?


yeah, somewhere there was a misplaced letter than changes the entire thing.

[trane]

If this is true, I would like to say that I cannot believe it, because I still cannot believe that they keep on doing the same shit over and over, and yet I can believe it, because this is the shit that I expected, becasue this is what they have been doing, MSLE shuold not be managing a football club.

[Parkdale]

Usually people with those kinds of credentials want to move up to a better situation. We need someone like that BUT who is also willing to work with a broken system. Not to many of those types out there to choose from or willing to come into a situation like ours.


simple - you PAY them what they want.

no matter how bad the job might look, there is always someone who's willing to do it for the right amount of money.

[Batman]

yeah, somewhere there was a misplaced letter than changes the entire thing.

pardon? :D

[Parkdale]

pardon? :D

teehee


yeah, somewhere there was a misplaced letter that changes the entire thing.

[Darlofletch]

Is it a distraction if - as the article states - things have been in the works for
a while, or are you simply grasping at straws?

I'd like to think things have been in the works for a while, about 3 months or so I'd hope. the distraction was the leak. maybe tfc didn't want it to come out, but it's a big coincidence if they didn't leak it themselves. it certainly got people away from the dero talk, but it's a bit of a crap leak really. some underwhelming news, that actually isn't happening at all for another couple of weeks or so.

[BuSaPuNk]

The Division title was more a reflection of the Nets going into the toilet that year than anything positive the Raps did. As shown by their success since then.

Absolutely. So really we have the 2 cups that TFC have won. And wow against two other clubs. LOL. GONG SHOW!:facepalm:

[DangerRed]

This is what enrages me:

"We had put forward a guy with former World Cup experience, and time at Manchester United and he hadn't gotten a sniff...We were told at the time that it was going to be Cochrane and a new coach who was coming in. That has changed in the last 24 hours. They're interviewing a new candidate with Cochrane now waiting in the wings."

How can we claim we'll have the best if we aren't looking outside our own FO and are being blown smoke about financial decisions when the GM spot isn't subject to any cap?

[Darlofletch]

I'm not so concerned or upset with the idea of Cochrane as an Administrative GM overseeing scouting; player development; the 'klinsmann' vision, etc, as he is likely a competent administrator (the dero thing aside) and in a corp structure like MLSE, promoting from within is important... my concern is who do they entrust with the football operations? are mariner or queiroz good options? I don't know.

the dero thing aside? that's the one big decision that he's had to handle, and look how well that worked out.

[Roogsy]

I don't know why I invest so much of myself with this team. 4 years of killing myself in the stands, on trips, at banner paintings. For nothing but constant disappointment. It boggles me how they don't see the silliness of their ways.

[billyfly]

So who fits this description? Carlos?

We had put forward a guy with former World Cup experience, and time at Manchester United and he hadn't gotten a sniff...We were told at the time that it was going to be Cochrane and a new coach who was coming in. That has changed in the last 24 hours. They're interviewing a new candidate with Cochrane now waiting in the wings."

[Section 117]

pardon?

Actually, I am talking in general not specifically MLSE...

I have spoken with many people within the league and they all agree if someone who has the pedigree to be a top manager would not last 3 months in this league.

It would be too fustrating for them, between the rules, quality of players and the officiating

[Darlofletch]

so who's up for a trip to gate 4 for a big "you don't know what you're doing" chant?

[Waggy]

So who fits this description? Carlos?

We had put forward a guy with former World Cup experience, and time at Manchester United and he hadn't gotten a sniff...We were told at the time that it was going to be Cochrane and a new coach who was coming in. That has changed in the last 24 hours. They're interviewing a new candidate with Cochrane now waiting in the wings."

The article didn't say it was coaching experience

[BuSaPuNk]

Well something has to change eventually. BMO will be half empty all the time if the team can't get shit together. ACC is already seeing down numbers for Leafs and Raptor games. Time to revolt. The Waffles are coming out of there box!

[Roogsy]

Actually, I am talking in general not specifically MLSE...

I have spoken with many people within the league and they all agree if someone who has the pedigree to be a top manager would not last 3 months in this league.

It would be too fustrating for them, between the rules, quality of players and the officiating

I agree.

MLS has not made a real commitment to becoming a professional outfit. There is a lot of bumbling and ass-covering that goes on behind the scenes. Does anyone remember the debacle in the roll-out of their main website last year? If anyone followed that mess you'd know what kind of amateurs the MLS is. You'd never see that shit from professional leagues like the NBA or MLB.

Outsider who have dealt with professional leagues and regional governing bodies (what is going on with MLS is not that disimilar to the bumblings of CONCACAF) come here and want to race back home.

[London]

if they hire daso and earl i will attend few games this season at home

[billyfly]

The article didn't say it was coaching experience

No they don't, but who fits that description? I can't think of anyone. Stephen Maclaren?

Wasn't he only England's man for Euro?

[Super]

nothing against Earl

but for fuck sakes...i expected more

Same here. Earl seems like a nice guy, and he certainly understands football, but he's still new on the scene at that level - and we definitely deserve better. Hopefully this turns out to not be true.

[Waggy]

I agree.

MLS has not made a real commitment to becoming a professional outfit. There is a lot of bumbling and ass-covering that goes on behind the scenes. Does anyone remember the debacle in the roll-out of their main website last year? If anyone followed that mess you'd know what kind of amateurs the MLS is. You'd never see that shit from professional leagues like the NBA or MLB.

Outsider who have dealt with professional leagues and regional governing bodies (what is going on with MLS is not that disimilar to the bumblings of CONCACAF) come here and want to race back home.

To be fair, structurally MLS is TOTALLY different than any other league in the world. That said, the website thing was a debacle. This is a debacle. The sigi thing was bush league. The rule bending for certain clubs is also bush league. I still have a lot of respect for Garber, but maybe he has taken MLS as far as he can take it. Maybe its time to bring in an Adam Silver type guy to guide the league to the next level (He's currently being groomed by David Stern to take over for him when he retires)

[ginkster88]

I think they mean that he's watched a lot of World Cup matches, both live and broadcasts and has lived near Old Trafford.

[Parkdale]

Same here. Earl seems like a nice guy, and he certainly understands football, but he's still new on the scene at that level - and we definitely deserve better. Hopefully this turns out to not be true.


I can live with Earl as a 'bookkeeper GM' provided we get a coach with a solid pedigree. I'm willing to accept ONE rookie with ONE proven pro, but not two rookies.

[Waggy]

No they don't, but who fits that description? I can't think of anyone. Stephen Maclaren?

It could be anyone for all we know. It's all spec. All we know is that they're talking about someone who may or may not have made a World Cup roster, and may or may not have at one time 'trained' with Man U. Maybe they want to pay Owen Hargreaves to come be player coach

[Roogsy]

To be fair, structurally MLS is TOTALLY different than any other league in the world. That said, the website thing was a debacle. This is a debacle. The sigi thing was bush league. The rule bending for certain clubs is also bush league. I still have a lot of respect for Garber, but maybe he has taken MLS as far as he can take it. Maybe its time to bring in an Adam Silver type guy to guide the league to the next level (He's currently being groomed by David Stern to take over for him when he retires)


Their lack of professionalism may or may not have anything to do with the structure of the league.

I actually have no problems with the single-entity of the league for the sake of financial survival. It was probably necessary. The problem is that once the league passed a stage where there was debate as to whether it would even survive, then it has to decide how it will grow. And remaining "bush league" will never let it grow sufficiently to garner respect from other leageus or regions.

[Darlofletch]

it does sound very like quieroz who got turned down, which fits into that dobson article way back when that mentioned him. but is it the same person who got turned down that they're talking to now? the article doesn't specifically say, but i kind of get the impression it's a whole new candidate who's thrown his hat into the ring.

[Batman]

Actually, I am talking in general not specifically MLSE...

I have spoken with many people within the league and they all agree if someone who has the pedigree to be a top manager would not last 3 months in this league.

It would be too fustrating for them, between the rules, quality of players and the officiating

got it. thanks.. and you're probably right.

[trane]

Why hire kilinsman to make this fucking move??????????? This is the fucking move they were going to make anyway. Those fucking cunts.

[Parkdale]

Why hire kilinsman to make this fucking move??????????? This is the fucking move they were going to make anyway. Those fucking cunts.


haha... take a deep breathe trane.

[billyfly]

it does sound very like quieroz who got turned down, which fits into that dobson article way back when that mentioned him. but is it the same person who got turned down that they're talking to now? the article doesn't specifically say, but i kind of get the impression it's a whole new candidate who's thrown his hat into the ring.

I'd laugh so hard if it was Quieroz and Nelo Vingada (just left FC Seoul) re-united.

In 1986–87 season Vingada was appointed as an assistant manager for Portugal U-20 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_national_under-20_football_team) along with Carlos Queiroz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Queiroz). He was the assistant coach for the Portuguese squad in the World Youth Championships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_U-20_World_Cup) of 1989 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_FIFA_World_Youth_Championship) in Riyadh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riyadh) and 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_FIFA_World_Youth_Championship) in Lisbon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon) with Carlos Queiroz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Queiroz) as head coach, both won by Portugal.

[Batman]

so who's up for a trip to gate 4 for a big "you don't know what you're doing" chant?

hahaha. off season group heckling... that would be something.:drum:

[trane]

I can live with Earl as a 'bookkeeper GM' provided we get a coach with a solid pedigree. I'm willing to accept ONE rookie with ONE proven pro, but not two rookies.

I would agree with you here. But what basis do we have to believe that they are capable and/or willing and/or interested in getting a PROVEN top flight pro coach? There is nothing in their track record that would suggest they will do this.


They would state that they are and then give us something akin to our Academy Manager.

[tfcmanu]

Klinseman smoke and mirrors :flare:

Sacked Portugal boss Carlos Queiroz's coaching ban lifted by CAS after appeal over drug-tester insults

http://themes.thestar.com/article/02uUeXPap1aTc

It All comes together.

Football Operations: Carlos Queiroz and he will bring in Nuno Gomes as our striker.
Coach: Paul Mariner

You heard it First here!:rolleyes:

[Waggy]

Their lack of professionalism may or may not have anything to do with the structure of the league.

I actually have no problems with the single-entity of the league for the sake of financial survival. It was probably necessary. The problem is that once the league passed a stage where there was debate as to whether it would even survive, then it has to decide how it will grow. And remaining "bush league" will never let it grow sufficiently to garner respect from other leageus or regions.


Very true. I have an idea. TFC/Seattle/LA/NY/Vancouver/Philly/Montreal and the Cosmos group could get together and raise a coup a-la the NASL attempt. Except successfully. That's 8 strong teams to build around, and I'm sure more than a few MLS clubs would be only so happy to come along.


(and yes, I know thats impossible thanks to MLS owning all players contracts. That's probably one big reason they structured the league like that)

Seriously though, you're absolutely right. Who knows what the next step for MLS is, but for me MLSE is a far more pressing matter. Without TFC I really couldn't care less about the MLS to be honest.

[trane]

haha... take a deep breathe trane.


I was angry, but now I am just sad. I see no future in this organization. I may be wrong, but right now it is hard to see.


That first day at the stadium felt so good, followed by our first goal/win. Great moments. I fell in love with this club, but they have disapointed so often, that I am speechless.

[Waggy]

hahaha. off season group heckling... that would be something.:drum:

THATS BRILLIANT! THE RPB RAPTORS GAME ON JANUARY 17 (or whatever the exact date is- against the pistons) PROTEST ON NATIONAL TV! I have friends on the Raptors forums, we can try and arrange some support for a larger movement maybe....

[Section 117]

Klinseman smoke and mirrors :flare:

Football Operations: Carlos Queiroz and he will bring in Nuno Gomes as our striker.
Coach: Paul Mariner

You heard it First here!:rolleyes:

I would be the angriest person alive if this happens

[Rudi]

Yay! Let's protest something when we don't even know what is going on.

At a fucking Raptors game, no less? How about just going and supporting the Raptors, rather than trying to make it about you.

EDIT: That was for Waggy, who as far as I can see is no more an RPB member than I am (for those who may mistake this as a shot at the group).

[Parkdale]

can we go one off-season without talks of a protest? hahahaha.....

[BuSaPuNk]

Yay! Let's protest something when we don't even know what is going on.

At a fucking Raptors game, no less? How about just going and supporting the Peddie and Co., rather than trying to make it about you.

Fixed :(

[CretanBull]

Why hire kilinsman to make this fucking move??????????? This is the fucking move they were going to make anyway. Those fucking cunts.

Honestly though, Klinsmann just became my new hero. He charged MLSE a bunch of cash to find a GM, and found a guy that was already on their pay-roll. That's brilliant! As for a new coach, it looks like he's either found - surprise, surprise - the exsisting coach, or perhaps Paul Mariner - a guy who'd been connected to the club in the past.

Presumably, Klinsmann had a straight face when he sent MLSE the invoice for his services. He's got balls the size of soccer balls.

[Phil]

can we go one off-season without talks of a protest? hahahaha.....

I agree, its getting a weee bit tired talking of protesting everything.

[Batman]

Klinseman smoke and mirrors :flare:

Sacked Portugal boss Carlos Queiroz's coaching ban lifted by CAS after appeal over drug-tester insults

http://themes.thestar.com/article/02uUeXPap1aTc

It All comes together.

Football Operations: Carlos Queiroz and he will bring in Nuno Gomes as our striker.
Coach: Paul Mariner

You heard it First here!:rolleyes:


from wikipedia

Toronto FC

With the hiring of Juergen Klinsmann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juergen_Klinsmann) to rebuild Toronto FC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_FC) from the ground up, Queiroz made the initial call to Toronto and has been seriously considered for their vacant coaching position. However, they are probably too cheap to hire him.[16] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Queiroz#cite_note-15)

[Waggy]

Yay! Let's protest something when we don't even know what is going on.

At a fucking Raptors game, no less? How about just going and supporting the Raptors, rather than trying to make it about you.

It IS about the Raptors. And the Leafs. Its about protesting incompetence. About putting dollars before fans. About everything wrong with sports in this city. I'm a bigger Raptors fan than TFC fan, and believe me, I'm almost as frustrated with them as TFC. And the Leafs are creeping up on the Raptors too. We can all unite around this. It doesn't have to be all about 'us'. I'm not saying protest Dero, or protest Cochrane. I'm saying protest MLSE. Signs/chants asking for them to sell.


Edit: you guys are no fun. Fine. But seriously, wouldn't an attempt to unite TFC/Raptors and Leafs supporters be a good idea? Why do we all have to be individual groups. We're dealing with a common entity

[BuSaPuNk]

can we go one off-season without talks of a protest? hahahaha.....

Nope! :facepalm:

This is getting past protests. This is a make or break moment I feel for TFC. It's bring a great coach that can get this team going in the right direction now, or I fear we might be seeing the slow death of this team.

[Rudi]

Fixed :(
Indeed.

If you don't want to support MLSE, don't go to a freaking Raptors game! It's simple math to me. :D

[trane]

^ How can someone seriously tell me that he conducted a full search and found him???

Even if you believe the future is developing your own player, is this the best developemtn guy avaialable? I have a hard time believing he is.

[__wowza]

for as long as i've supported this organization i've never been on the forums during the offseason, and it's because news like this.

:facepalm: goddamn.

[trane]

Nope! :facepalm:

This is getting past protests. This is a make or break moment I feel for TFC. It's bring a great coach that can get this team going in the right direction now, or I fear we might be seeing the slow death of this team.


Agreed.

[BuSaPuNk]

Indeed.

If you don't want to support MLSE, don't go to a freaking Raptors game! It's simple math to me. :D

Yep I've cut them off. No more Raptors, Leafs, TFC till shit gets back on track.

I'm going to a leaf game this year but it was a gift. Not my $$. And i'm probably going to get tossed out anyways so. :hump:

[Waggy]

Yep I've cut them off. No more Raptors, Leafs, TFC till shit gets back on track.

I'm going to a leaf game this year but it was a gift. Not my $$. And i'm probably going to get tossed out anyways so. :hump:

Same (except for the getting tossed part). I've gone to a few Raps games, but only after getting tickets free. And from what I've seen there are a lot more empty seats than those attendance numbers indicate. People are voting with their butts. We TFC fans have a real organized voice. Raps and Leafs fans aren't so lucky. We're all in this together right? All for one? MLSE is practically trying to kill sports in this city. Maybe at the game is a bad idea, fine, but as a principle wouldn't getting all sports fans in this city together REALLY send MLSE a message? It'd benefit us all

[TFC/Everton]

Whatever

[Roogsy]

Honestly though, Klinsmann just became my new hero. He charged MLSE a bunch of cash to find a GM, and found a guy that was already on their pay-roll. That's brilliant! As for a new coach, it looks like he's either found - surprise, surprise - the exsisting coach, or perhaps Paul Mariner - a guy who'd been connected to the club in the past.

Presumably, Klinsmann had a straight face when he sent MLSE the invoice for his services. He's got balls the size of soccer balls.

:lol:

I must learn from this man...

[Rudi]

It IS about the Raptors. And the Leafs. Its about protesting incompetence. About putting dollars before fans. About everything wrong with sports in this city. I'm a bigger Raptors fan than TFC fan, and believe me, I'm almost as frustrated with them as TFC. And the Leafs are creeping up on the Raptors too. We can all unite around this. It doesn't have to be all about 'us'. I'm not saying protest Dero, or protest Cochrane. I'm saying protest MLSE. Signs/chants asking for them to sell.


Edit: you guys are no fun. Fine. But seriously, wouldn't an attempt to unite TFC/Raptors and Leafs supporters be a good idea? Why do we all have to be individual groups. We're dealing with a common entity
Ok, fine.

But seriously, what sparked your sudden urge to protest? That Earl Cochrane may or may not be retained as the TFC GM? (in a paper-pushing role, at that)

That seems a bit... much, no?

What if TFC hired a tandem like Erik Soler and Hans Backe? They are no-names, who I'm sure who be lambasted to kingdom come if their hypothetical equivalents were brought in.

Yet look at the job they did with NYRB last year.

Many in the TFC fanbase seem to be focused on a big name, as if that is the magic bullet that will solve all of the club's problems.

LA tried that with Ruud Gullitt, and it failed miserably. Then they hired MLS stalwart Bruce Arena - who got fired at RBNY a year and a half previous - to clean up the mess.

The fact is, TFC would be far better served with a Bruce Arena type than a Ruud Gullitt. Am I suggesting that Earl, Nick or Paul Mariner are those types of people? Hell no.

But those people pre-emptively shitting on them simply because they don't have the cache of a "big name" seem to forget that we have a big name already involved with the entire process, and even he seems to be shying away from the temptation of bringing in a "star" manager.

[Pookie]

No issues with The Coch taking on the role... or not.

JK was brought in to put in a blueprint, IMO. If that's the case, there is no need (or desire) for someone who is going to venture willy nilly off that blue print.

If they don't like The Coch, as long as they find someone else to implement the blueprint, I'm cool with it.

My big assumption? That there actually will be a blueprint :noidea:

[Roogsy]

Indeed.

If you don't want to support MLSE, don't go to a freaking Raptors game! It's simple math to me. :D

I do agree with this.

I have not paid for a Leaf or a Raptor ticket in 2 years. And I have not purchased any Leaf or Raptor merchandise in the same period. My position on this will not change in the foreseeable future.

I have gone to games however, through free tickets. I will admit.

With TFC I have cut back my overall spending by 75%. And maybe more if this shit continues.

[Suds]

man ... how the fuck does Earl feel right now ... so 24 hours ago he was pretty much a shoe-in for the job and now he's in the wings wondering what his role will be moving forward? ... I feel bad for the guy.

[BuSaPuNk]

Same (except for the getting tossed part). I've gone to a few Raps games, but only after getting tickets free. And from what I've seen there are a lot more empty seats than those attendance numbers indicate. People are voting with their butts. We TFC fans have a real organized voice. Raps and Leafs fans aren't so lucky. We're all in this together right? All for one? MLSE is practically trying to kill sports in this city. Maybe at the game is a bad idea, fine, but as a principle wouldn't getting all sports fans in this city together REALLY send MLSE a message? It'd benefit us all

I said to my buddy one day about orgaizing a mass protest outside the ACC offices. Leaf, Raptors, TFC, Marlies fans rally for better results. Cause right now there slowly but surely killing professional sports in this city.

[Yohan]

Ok, fine.

But seriously, what sparked your sudden urge to protest? That Earl Cochrane may or may not be retained as the TFC GM? (in a paper-pushing role, at that)

That seems a bit... much, no?

What if TFC hired a tandem like Erik Soler and Hans Backe? They are no-names, who I'm sure who be lambasted to kingdom come if their hypothetical equivalents were brought in.

Yet look at the job they did with NYRB last year.

Many in the TFC fanbase seem to be focused on a big name, as if that is the magic bullet that will solve all of the club's problems.

LA tried that with Ruud Gullitt, and it failed miserably. Then they hired MLS stalwart Bruce Arena - who got fired at RBNY a year and a half previous - to clean up the mess.

The fact is, TFC would be far better served with a Bruce Arena type than a Ruud Gullitt. Am I suggesting that Earl, Nick or Paul Mariner are those types of people? Hell no.

But those people pre-emptively shitting on them simply because they don't have the cache of a "big name" seem to forget that we have a big name already involved with the entire process, and even he seems to be shying away from the temptation of bringing in a "star" manager.
i don't think any foreign manager has won the MLS cup without previous MLS experience. Gary Smith won this season, but he was assistant in Colorado before getting hired as head coach. oh yeah. he's an English manager. haha

[Batman]

Same (except for the getting tossed part). I've gone to a few Raps games, but only after getting tickets free. And from what I've seen there are a lot more empty seats than those attendance numbers indicate. People are voting with their butts. We TFC fans have a real organized voice. Raps and Leafs fans aren't so lucky. We're all in this together right? All for one? MLSE is practically trying to kill sports in this city. Maybe at the game is a bad idea, fine, but as a principle wouldn't getting all sports fans in this city together REALLY send MLSE a message? It'd benefit us all

strangely though, what could it ever accomplish.

No one seems to have the answer of building a winning team in Toronto in a salary capped league, regardless of sport.

I firmly think MLSE would like to have winning teams.

The empty seats and lack of playoff dates must certainly be making a dent in the bottom line.

In hockey and basketball, they have spent big time on executives to do so.

However, none of them seem to be making much progress.

I pray however Tom Anselmi was being honest when he said they would search far and wide and build a HIGHLY EXPERIENCED MANAGEMENT TEAM.

Don't cheap out on us TFC.

[Roogsy]

can we go one off-season without talks of a protest? hahahaha.....


I want to protest our lack of protests.

It's like going without sex for a couple of weeks. Sometimes you just have the urge...

[Ossington Mental Youth]

hope we are shooting higher than Cochrane, nothing personal, just hope and expect us to grab someone with greater experience, only further confusion added to the TFC situation with this

[babone]

I like the idea of Carlos coming in and I would not hold him completly accountable for what happened in Portugal, I'm a pork chop and to be honest what happened there was player ego vs. coach ego. This guy has done very well working with younger players and I belive he's will conected MANU pulled off the Bebe deal based on his input, Porto and Benfica were getting ready to pounce before he made the call.

No matter what happenes a football club is tough to replace then a wife. Let focus on moving forward and give who ever get the job a legit chance (2 Years) to change things up.

[TFC/Everton]

I know I am Im sure I am.................................sigh Toronto till I die

[Waggy]

Ok, fine.

But seriously, what sparked your sudden urge to protest? That Earl Cochrane may or may not be retained as the TFC GM? (in a paper-pushing role, at that)

That seems a bit... much, no?

What if TFC hired a tandem like Erik Soler and Hans Backe? They are no-names, who I'm sure who be lambasted to kingdom come if their hypothetical equivalents were brought in.

Yet look at the job they did with NYRB last year.

Many in the TFC fanbase seem to be focused on a big name, as if that is the magic bullet that will solve all of the club's problems.

LA tried that with Ruud Gullitt, and it failed miserably. Then they hired MLS stalwart Bruce Arena - who got fired at RBNY a year and a half previous - to clean up the mess.

The fact is, TFC would be far better served with a Bruce Arena type than a Ruud Gullitt. Am I suggesting that Earl, Nick or Paul Mariner are those types of people? Hell no.

But those people pre-emptively shitting on them simply because they don't have the cache of a "big name" seem to forget that we have a big name already involved with the entire process, and even he seems to be shying away from the temptation of bringing in a "star" manager.


None of the above. If you go back in my thread history I've been advocating this for a while. Why? I'm a diehard Raps fan, and TFC. and a pretty decent Leafs fan too. I haven't gone to a TFC game in a year and a half, and I have to say no to Raptors tickets all the time. And I haven't gone to a Leafs game in the acc since like 2003. Why? Because I'm a student and I can't afford the games. We get charged up the ass for EVERYTHING sports related in this city and we get nothing back. TFC every year does 4 things without fail. 1) Get a new GM 2) New coach. 3) new jerseys 4) raise ticket prices.

What pisses me off about the past 2 days most? Out of all the worry between Celtic and TFC and Dero, not one god damned person has said one fucking thing about us, the people who are being held hostage to be used as leverage. That's the position we CONSTANTLY are put in. What the fucking hell about us, the people who actually PAY for this stuff. The people who watch, who buy the merchendise, who support the team either on TV, an online stream, at BMO field or traveling on the road. Why are we the LAST consideration of everyone constantly? Lots of teams don't win anything, only 1 team a year can. It doesn't mean they have to think of us as an ATM to withdraw from when they need it, this is a give and take relationship and the only giving and taking that's been going on in the past 10 years is them giving it to us from behind while we take it. Other than the recent concessions (that apparently MLS forced MLSE to give to the fans), name 1 thing MLSE has done JUST for the fans, not for their bottom line.

Marc Cuban, owner of the 2nd best team in the western conference in the NBA, makes sure he always has 1 section of tickets available for $5, so that anyone can see the games. They give things away in the game, not trinkets or product placements but things people actually want. He actually tries to make fans happy. When the team does something unpopular, he doesn't hide from it, he's out front explaining it to people so that they can understand what his goals and objectives are, and how they can help the team and the city. Even just the last part would be amazing and it wouldn't cost ANYTHING. For reference, look up the story of Cuban trying to buy the Texas Rangers and the scandal he headed off at the pass by simply communicating properly with the fans what his position was, and how he was making his decisions. I don't think that kind of communication is too much to expect or demand from an organization that charges astronomical prices relative to their sports.

I don't expect titles every year or anything, I don't even expect to be competitive every year. I just don't want to feel like I just visited a brothel every time I leave BMO/the ACC


Edit: THIS is how an owner handles a negative situation. This is how an owner speaks to fans. http://blogmaverick.com/2010/08/05/chasing-the-rangers/

Edit 2: And yes, before you respond with: this is a business, why would I expect MLSE to do anything that doesn't help their bottom line? Because of something called good will. It helps their long term financial outlook to have their fans happy. It helps their short term as well if people like me and others here weren't consciously avoiding giving MLSE money as an individual form of protest (I've wanted a new Raps jersey for 2 years. Love those black alternates. And the new Leafs jersey too). At the cost of what, lowering ticket prices for a random game? Hiring/training real public relations people who can point out to Peddie how to make sure communication between consumer and business are healthy? It'd cost practically nothing to get some good will, as seen by how positive people around here felt a month and a half ago. It's not like MLSE are cheap, or they dont have the money, they just honestly dont think of us as a consideration. We aren't worth it

[babone]

I think the biggest challenge here is that the team was run into the ground by Moe. constant change with little or no results for a fan base that is the best in the world based on the results that have been supplied by the club.

I think the time has come to chill, grab a Carlsberg and chill. MLSE take the time and do it right.

[Alixir]

we all knew this was going to happen. My guess (and hope) is that MLSE are a bit reluctant to spend loads of cash on a GM because they are waiting on the imminent sale to Rogers.:noidea:

[Waggy]

Enough ranting. I somehow got myself all worked up. I'm going to have a big drink and relax. I'm not thinking about TFC again until a coach and or gm is hired, or training camp starts. Whatever comes first.

[ManUtd4ever]

The article suggests that in effect, the plan was to hire Paul Mariner as the new Manager/Director Of Operations and Earl Cochrane would be promoted to General Manager but serve primarily in an administrative role. I wouldn't be ecstatic but I would be willing to give that tandem a shot.

The article then suggests TFC's reluctance to make an official announcement is a result of the DeRo debacle and the recent emergence of a new candidate.

Interesting...

.

[Suds]

we all knew this was going to happen. My guess (and hope) is that MLSE are a bit reluctant to spend loads of cash on a GM because they are waiting on the imminent sale to Rogers.:noidea:

for most of us I think you're right ... we wanted to believe otherwise, believe this would finally be the year we have a club to to be proud of both on an off the field, a year without drama, a year we can just focus on supporting our team ... but deep down we knew something like this may happen, we just hoped to ignore that gut feeling and be pleasantly surprised ... but alas

[jloome]

Looks like this was just shit reporting to me and they're covering their asses. Once again, the real value of most anonymous sources is on full display.

And before someone who doesn't know the business tells me anonymity is required, just save it. I do this for a living, and it's not. Good reporters can get things on the record, and when they're not, they better darn sure be right.

[Suds]

^^

one things for sure .. this sure stopped the DeRo chatter in it's tracks ... intentional or not

[ensco]

If that article speaks the truth....big if...then Cochrane's handling of the Dero/Celtic affair has cost him the job, because what on earth else could be responsible for the change in direction "in the last 24 hours", in the middle of the holidays?

In which case those who are in possession of all the facts concerning the Dero/Celtic affair, would be revealing that the blame rests not with Dero or his agent, but with Cochrane.

But I really have zero idea if that article is credible.

[Beach_Red]

If that article speaks the truth....big if...then Cochrane's handling of the Dero/Celtic affair has cost him the job (because what on earth else could be responsible for the change in direction in the middle of the holidays?)

In which case those who are in possession of all the facts concerning the Dero/Celtic affair, would be revealing that the blame rests not with Dero or his agent, but with Cochrane.

But I really have zero idea if that article is credible.

Following the big if, it sounds like there's concern that TFC didn't handle the situation well. They can't control what DeRo or his agent say or do, they can only control their reaction to it.

[CretanBull]

If that article speaks the truth....big if...then Cochrane's handling of the Dero/Celtic affair has cost him the job (because what on earth else could be responsible for the change in direction in the middle of the holidays?)

In which case those who are in possession of all the facts concerning the Dero/Celtic affair, would be revealing that the blame rests not with Dero or his agent, but with Cochrane.

But I really have zero idea if that article is credible.

I thought the exact same thing - what other conclusion is there? Maybe he's not at fault for the paperwork etc. Problem, but it certainly appears as if he's being held accountable for how it played out once the issue became a public controversy.

[Chevy]

^^ Maybe, and that isn't good news for DeRo.

New guy comes in and realizes the interim guy got hung out to dry by a certain player and his agent, not to mention embarrasing the club?

Colour that player gonzo. Pronto.

[CretanBull]

^^ Maybe, and that isn't good news for DeRo.

New guy comes in and realizes the interim guy got hung out to dry by a certain player and his agent, not to mention embarrasing the club?

Colour that player gonzo. Pronto.

I think we can all agree that it would take an extreme set of circumstances to see DeRo return to the team, but there's no way that a new manager is going to blame DeRo for the interim manager getting caught in a web of lies. The fact that TFC were ready to hire Earl and are apparently rethinking that decision based on how he's handled the latest situation speaks volume. They either see his fault in this, or want to make him the scapegoat while they try to smooth things over with DeRo.

[Oldtimer]

I'm actually fine with Earl Coachrane in an administrative-only role. It's exactly what I expected, and contary to what a lot of people on this board think, it's the right decision.

That's exactly the strategy RSL did when they were in an even worse mess than TFC, and look where it brought them. They got rid of their hands-on incompetent GM and replaced him with an ex-player whose only qualification was a law degree, who does admin only.

The key is having a coach who can do well in MLS. They did that too (and he wasn't a big name, but he knew how to sign players to fit a system).

Coachrane is the obvious choice because of the link with the academy (which has done very well under Earl) and ML$E's culture, bringing in a coach to handle player decisions as well as coaching is a better model than the Active GM/Coach model. This isn't the NHL.

The only thing I'm not sure of is Mariner. He probably isn't to blame for what happened in England (he was hamstrung by all accounts), but he hasn't proven himself either.

[wzhxvy]

The more I read about TFC, the more convinced I am that MLSE is in the process of being sold. They are still on the hook for Preki and Mo, and it appears are trying to keep their costs and margin within "expectation" and are not looking to make any real investments.

Otherwise, the Mariner Coch combo...MariCoch is a JOKE !!!!!!!!!!! Dumb and Dumber.

[Yohan]

Otherwise, the Mariner Coch combo...MariCoch is a JOKE !!!!!!!!!!! Dumb and Dumber.
and you're saying Mariner is dumb based on what again?

[jloome]

I'm actually fine with Earl Coachrane in an administrative-only role. It's exactly what I expected, and contary to what a lot of people on this board think, it's the right decision.

That's exactly the strategy RSL did when they were in an even worse mess than TFC, and look where it brought them. They got rid of their hands-on incompetent GM and replaced him with an ex-player whose only qualification was a law degree, who does admin only.

The key is having a coach who can do well in MLS. They did that too (and he wasn't a big name, but he knew how to sign players to fit a system).

Coachrane is the obvious choice because of the link with the academy (which has done very well under Earl) and ML$E's culture, bringing in a coach to handle player decisions as well as coaching is a better model than the Active GM/Coach model. This isn't the NHL.

The only thing I'm not sure of is Mariner. He probably isn't to blame for what happened in England (he was hamstrung by all accounts), but he hasn't proven himself either.

It sounds profoundly illogical to equate the relevant soccer experience of an ex-player, Kreis, with that of an ex-PR flak, Cochrane.

If all we want is an able administrator, obviously, that's fine. But we should be aiming for someone both able and knowledgeable. He's not qualified, and he shouldn't get the job.

[wzhxvy]

and you're saying Mariner is dumb based on what again?

what head coaching, Director of Operations track record of success does he have ?

Why was he not good enough for any other MLS team team during his long tenure with NE ?

After 5 years of failure, to hire two inexperienced people on this club is beyond a joke, its not rational which is why I am thinking there must be a motivation to keep costs down and not make any significant investments prior to an acquisition (board is distracted..who knows)...

[reggie]

until this is official,i wont believe it.
who is this guy that wrote the story,has he ever broke a story?

[TFCwestcan]

Man, I can't even read to the end of the thread talk about the negativity. I wonder if long suffering fans in other leagues are as bitter as those in TFC. I am also confused by all these guys who have given up there seasons tickets and yet are still writing stuff in this forum, shouldn't you have just walked away?

[Bluenose13]

Man, I can't even read to the end of the thread talk about the negativity. I wonder if long suffering fans in other leagues are as bitter as those in TFC. I am also confused by all these guys who have given up your seasons tickets and yet are still writing stuff in this forum, shouldn't you have just walked away?LOL.....So true.

[Torontotonto]

The Cochrane Shuffle. Is this guy GM worthy?

December 27

“Dwayne is not going on trial with Celtic or any other club,” Cochrane told MLSsoccer.com. “We have not received word from anyone and expect him to be with TFC when training camp opens next month.”

Cochrane said he’s not surprised to see De Rosario's name being linked to European teams. He suggested that the player's agent may be responsible for the rumor.

December 28

“We were unaware of Dwayne's plan to train with Celtic and we will contact them to understand the situation. Obviously, if there is interest in a short-term loan arrangement by either him or Celtic, they will need to approach us and the League formally and we will consider [it] based on what is in TFC's best interest.”

December 29

"I was contacted a little more than a month ago by Dwayne (De Rosario) and his representative - asking if we would entertain a loan or training stint. We said we would but would need assurances and final sign off on it - that an agreement would need to be in place that we were comfortable with."

"Dwayne's agent contacted me and asked if we would let Dwayne train with a club and we said we would, but again would have to have something official in place that would provide us with some assurances that should Dwayne get hurt we would be covered. They understood that completely."

"I have not received anything official from Dwayne or his agent or Celtic. MLS will reach out to Celtic to clear up this situation and will do what is best for Toronto FC.”

Not sure, but sure looks like MLSE (Tom A) were calling the shots on this latest media fiasco...

[Wull]

If they go with this, what little patience and good will they regained will be gone by the time they get back from Turkey. He'll get shit on for waiting this long to do anything substantial whereas a new person would get some patience and time

[shwade]

LOL.....So true.

Not really. Some people have been priced out, it doesn't mean they still don't have an interest/ passion for this club.

[ArmenJBX]

I remember making a thread, asking whether we should sign Quieroz.

Did TFC read it and go after him?

IF YOU'RE READING THIS, SIGN ME TO BE YOUR TRANSFER GURU!!

[billyfly]

Has anyone posted that to this question in the comment section of Ben's article, Ben said "Correct".

"Doesn't the quote mean that a guy with world cup exp. was offered up but not interviewed, and now they are sniffing around a new guy, who we know nothing about?"

[Pachuco]

Man, I can't even read to the end of the thread talk about the negativity. I wonder if long suffering fans in other leagues are as bitter as those in TFC. I am also confused by all these guys who have given up there seasons tickets and yet are still writing stuff in this forum, shouldn't you have just walked away?

I don't get this logic at all. You couldn't catch me dead paying for a Maple Leaf's ticket. But it's the hockey team I support and I'll watch them and read about them when I can. I don't sit in the stands because I don't think there is value for the money there. Doesn't mean I can't read and bitch about the Leaf's. I'm sure there is a hell of a lot of people that feel the same way about TFC right now and I don't blame them.

[ag futbol]

It sounds profoundly illogical to equate the relevant soccer experience of an ex-player, Kreis, with that of an ex-PR flak, Cochrane.

If all we want is an able administrator, obviously, that's fine. But we should be aiming for someone both able and knowledgeable. He's not qualified, and he shouldn't get the job.
Funny how TFC spends 4 years having the wool pulled over their eyes by some fast talker and now they're ready to hand over large swaths of responsibility to someone with little experience but has a great PR feel.

What is it with these guys, can they really be this dumb?

[Oldtimer]

If all we want is an able administrator, obviously, that's fine. But we should be aiming for someone both able and knowledgeable. He's not qualified, and he shouldn't get the job.

If we get the right coach, all we need is an able administrator, and nothing more. Someone who knows more might interfere with said coach -- or didn't we have enough interfering during the Mo Johnston days that you would like a repeat?


Funny how TFC spends 4 years having the wool pulled over their eyes by some fast talker and now they're ready to hand over large swaths of responsibility to someone with little experience but has a great PR feel.



Earl is by all accounts an able bureaucrat. He should have no problem with the limited role carved out for him.

[Roogsy]

I remember making a thread, asking whether we should sign Quieroz.

Did TFC read it and go after him?

IF YOU'RE READING THIS, SIGN ME TO BE YOUR TRANSFER GURU!!


Quick, somebody call MLSE and tell them to have a TV, and Xbox and a copy of FIFA 11 ready to go when Jimmy checks in for work.

[ensco]

Earl is by all accounts an able bureaucrat. He should have no problem with the limited role carved out for him.

What accounts? I defy anyone to find any meaningful information about Cochrane in the public domain prior to his battlefield promote on Sep 14.

I don't hate the guy, he's just not remotely qualified for a meaningful job in a serious soccer organization.

[ag futbol]

Earl is by all accounts an able bureaucrat. He should have no problem with the limited role carved out for him.
This is not what we need. I don't want some guy who frankly has no credibility when it comes to the game holding down some high level role.

Why do the raptors have guys like wayne embry on the board of directors? It's to provide oversight without meddling. Major problem with TFC over the past few years and one of the reasons why Mo Johnston got away with being competent for so long.

Who is going to listen to Earl Cochrane if he throws his $.02 against a coach with 20x the experience? We'll be back to the same situation we were in for the last four years. With some guy with all the knowledge pulling one over on management while they stumble in the dark about what's going on because they have a poor comprehesion of the game.

Tell Cochrane to get back to the academy and finish a job not even half done. Time for people to take off the blinders are realize a large number of teams graduated players from their academy last year. We've yet to prove our players are any better than anyone elses despite having some serious advantages and a huge player pool to draw from in the GTA.

[ilikemusic]

Man, I can't even read to the end of the thread talk about the negativity. I wonder if long suffering fans in other leagues are as bitter as those in TFC. I am also confused by all these guys who have given up there seasons tickets and yet are still writing stuff in this forum, shouldn't you have just walked away?

Its a simple concept. We dont want to pay for a shit product anymore, so we stopped. It doesnt mean we stopped following the team. It just means we stopped paying for shit. Since when did season ticket ownership become a pre-requisite for fandom. If that were the case, why does the international football forum exist at all? I highly doubt anyone posting there has season tickets to Man U or Barcelona.

[mclaren]

Man, I can't even read to the end of the thread talk about the negativity. I wonder if long suffering fans in other leagues are as bitter as those in TFC. I am also confused by all these guys who have given up there seasons tickets and yet are still writing stuff in this forum, shouldn't you have just walked away?

You just don't get it do you?

[jazzy]

Man, I can't even read to the end of the thread talk about the negativity. I wonder if long suffering fans in other leagues are as bitter as those in TFC. I am also confused by all these guys who have given up there seasons tickets and yet are still writing stuff in this forum, shouldn't you have just walked away?

oh-oh the true vision of TO from afar.......true Canadians, we take a stance then backtrack in self doubt...lol, perfect

[trane]

Man, I can't even read to the end of the thread talk about the negativity. I wonder if long suffering fans in other leagues are as bitter as those in TFC. I am also confused by all these guys who have given up there seasons tickets and yet are still writing stuff in this forum, shouldn't you have just walked away?

Is having seasons tickets a pre-requisite about having opinions about this mickey mouse organization or supporting them? You must be kidding. You live in Calgary, do you have seasons?

Why do you give a shit? After all this is not Calgary FC, it is Toronto FC, the football team that is supposed to represent MY city, in the sport I care most about.

I gave up seasons because I care about this fucking club, and wanted to send a message, a message which they clearly understood, because they took action, to bad there action was the same old same old shit. Or at least is seems to be.

This "why all of this negativity" shit is so fucking old. Why all the fucking negativity? If you ask this question I must ask Have you really followed this club since 2007?

My stance on this club has been the same since late in year 2008 they need a complete house cleaning and a complete new management team. I gave up my seasons in hope that if enough of us did it they would do that. There was some hope that they would do it properly. The hope is very very dim at this moment.

[Section 117]

If Earl were to be hired as a paper pusher and someone that just handles contracts what the fuck is the big deal about that????

I have stated countless times the GM in the MLS is a glorified paper pusher or that is what is should be. The coaches are the ones who should be selecting the players to be signed and it would be Earl's job to handle all of the stupid rules that MLS has.

Mo had it made, he was the be all end all for TFC for almost 4 years. I highly doubt he gave Carver, Cummins even Preki to an extent full disclousure on who he was bringing in. If the future coach of this squad is given full power over the squad then Earl being the paper pusher is fine.

One step further if you really what a proper structure it should be as the following:

Techincal Directior - In charge of anything to do with soccer realted activities with in TFC. Everything from the academy, to first squad and all related hirings. Including players.

Assistant Director/GM - In charge of all contracts, cap mangement and complete understanding of all of the MLS rules. Earl would be this guy

Coach/Manager - Run first team implements system determined by techincal director has large input along with techincal director on players coming and going, takes responsibility for all practices and game preperations.

Asst. Coach - Helps coach with implenting the system, helps run practice and additional runs the reserve squad based on the system that has been decided on between coach and techincal director.

This is what TFC should be hoping to implement. By adding this structure to the FO you have clear and concise direction and level of responsibility for every position and they will know their roles and expectations.

[Parkdale]

If we get the right coach, all we need is an able administrator, and nothing more. Someone who knows more might interfere with said coach -- or didn't we have enough interfering during the Mo Johnston days that you would like a repeat?


agreed 100%



I've had some time to sleep on all the negative emotions of yesterday,
and here's where I'm standing on the issues today (and if you don't care, skip it)

1 - How can DeRo find the time to correct the Scarboro comments, but not answer the call from TFC FO?

2 - I'm happy with Earl as an administrative GM, provided we have a real 'on the field' coach coming very soon

3 - Klinsman has a cushy job. I want one too.

4 - I wonder if Earl has a picture of Dero on his Dart board?

5 - The Scottish Sun seems to be running wild with tabloid bullshit. I just don't believe that dero would put down his 'hood after all the 'propping' he's given them in the past. Maybe his words are out of context? Let's admit it - Scarboro IS a rougher part of town, or at least parts of it are. You know, NOT where the barenaked ladies are from.

6 - Yes we are quick to jump on the TFC FO and general management for this one, but only because their track record is sooooo spotless ;)

[trane]

^ It is spotless, spotlessly shit.

[Pyeddo]

I love how some people come out of the wood work just to bash MLSE...

Good job guys, keep patting yourself on the back


Sorry I don't live on the board like you do champ lol

Cheers

[__wowza]

5 - The Scottish Sun seems to be running wild with tabloid bullshit. I just don't believe that dero would put down his 'hood after all the 'propping' he's given them in the past. Maybe his words are out of context? Let's admit it - Scarboro IS a rougher part of town, or at least parts of it are. You know, NOT where the barenaked ladies are from.

agreed. the mans been too good to his community to turn around and bash it like that. i'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that this wasn't taken in context.

yes, i will go out and say that i believe he wasn't quoted correctly by some tabloid. again, it doesn't go with his track record. if he did mean it though, then well.. who cares? chalk it up to another scaborough hater (whose actually fucking from scaborough).

[Milky]

Earl Cochrane is not a bad choice, and is in fact probably the best choice in terms of salvaging something out of the 2011 season. A new guy would probably be too far behind the 8-ball at this point to make something out of our current season, but would of course be well equipped for 2012.

[trane]

^ A new guy is going to be too far behind the 8-ball if you hire him two games into the season, that is true.

[Beach_Red]

One step further if you really what a proper structure it should be as the following:

Techincal Directior - In charge of anything to do with soccer realted activities with in TFC. Everything from the academy, to first squad and all related hirings. Including players.

Assistant Director/GM - In charge of all contracts, cap mangement and complete understanding of all of the MLS rules. Earl would be this guy

Coach/Manager - Run first team implements system determined by techincal director has large input along with techincal director on players coming and going, takes responsibility for all practices and game preperations.

Asst. Coach - Helps coach with implenting the system, helps run practice and additional runs the reserve squad based on the system that has been decided on between coach and techincal director.

This is what TFC should be hoping to implement. By adding this structure to the FO you have clear and concise direction and level of responsibility for every position and they will know their roles and expectations.

This. Finally.

This is why people are "anti-MLSE," because going into the fifth season they still haven't put together the simplest, most basic structure for the team. That's all people have been asking for.

Well, and that the "Technical director in charge of everything" be someone with experience. As Peddie said, Toronto is not the place to hire rookies. TFC sell 20,000 tickets a game, they're one of the most profitable teams in the league, it's not where someone should "learn," and not where someone should be doing three jobs at once. TFC should be where people get hired by after they've been really successful at a team that only sells 5000 tickets.

[Roogsy]

This. Finally.

This is why people are "anti-MLSE," because going into the fifth season they still haven't put together the simplest, most basic structure for the team. That's all people have been asking for.

Well, and that the "Technical director in charge of everything" be someone with experience. As Peddie said, Toronto is not the place to hire rookies. TFC sell 20,000 tickets a game, they're one of the most profitable teams in the league, it's not where someone should "learn," and not where someone should be doing three jobs at once. TFC should be where people get hired by after they've been really successful at a team that only sells 5000 tickets.


100% bang on.



Now....can someone explain to me why JK is needed to be paid a King's Ransom to tell TFC that this kind of structure needs to be put in place?

Let's account for what was needed.

A structure. They could have paid 117 to give them that. It wouldn't have cost much.

A GM. Earl's been there all long. They decided on him before JK even showed up in the picture.

Coach. You need a recruiter for that. Tom A knows squat about this.

So like I mentioned previously, JK becomes essentially a really expensive recruiter who gives his stamp of approval on the rest of the structure at TFC that was obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Well done MLSE.

[Section 117]

100% bang on.



Now....can someone explain to me why JK is needed to be paid a King's Ransom to tell TFC that this kind of structure needs to be put in place?

Let's account for what was needed.

A structure. They could have paid 117 to give them that. It wouldn't have cost much.

A GM. Earl's been there all long. They decided on him before JK even showed up in the picture.

Coach. You need a recruiter for that. Tom A knows squat about this.

So like I mentioned previously, JK becomes essentially a really expensive recruiter who gives his stamp of approval on the rest of the structure at TFC that was obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Well done MLSE.


Only that I would become techincal director :hump:

and all would be goood in TFC land. I could come on this site poll for what you guys think of players....

[Roogsy]

You'd wind up with JDG. :eek:

[__wowza]

This. Finally.

This is why people are "anti-MLSE," because going into the fifth season they still haven't put together the simplest, most basic structure for the team. That's all people have been asking for.

Well, and that the "Technical director in charge of everything" be someone with experience. As Peddie said, Toronto is not the place to hire rookies. TFC sell 20,000 tickets a game, they're one of the most profitable teams in the league, it's not where someone should "learn," and not where someone should be doing three jobs at once. TFC should be where people get hired by after they've been really successful at a team that only sells 5000 tickets.

+ a boisterous / rabid fan base.
+ a packed stadium every game.
+ a core group who're willing to put up with shit and see you through just so long as we know you're trying.

most teams have the first one.
a few teams have the second one.
we OWN the third one.

[Darlofletch]

If Earl were to be hired as a paper pusher and someone that just handles contracts what the fuck is the big deal about that????

I have stated countless times the GM in the MLS is a glorified paper pusher or that is what is should be. The coaches are the ones who should be selecting the players to be signed and it would be Earl's job to handle all of the stupid rules that MLS has.

Mo had it made, he was the be all end all for TFC for almost 4 years. I highly doubt he gave Carver, Cummins even Preki to an extent full disclousure on who he was bringing in. If the future coach of this squad is given full power over the squad then Earl being the paper pusher is fine.

One step further if you really what a proper structure it should be as the following:

Techincal Directior - In charge of anything to do with soccer realted activities with in TFC. Everything from the academy, to first squad and all related hirings. Including players.

Assistant Director/GM - In charge of all contracts, cap mangement and complete understanding of all of the MLS rules. Earl would be this guy

Coach/Manager - Run first team implements system determined by techincal director has large input along with techincal director on players coming and going, takes responsibility for all practices and game preperations.

Asst. Coach - Helps coach with implenting the system, helps run practice and additional runs the reserve squad based on the system that has been decided on between coach and techincal director.

This is what TFC should be hoping to implement. By adding this structure to the FO you have clear and concise direction and level of responsibility for every position and they will know their roles and expectations.

If that's all earl is, then yeah, he's probably capable of doing that. seems to me though that they've got earl pegged as the technical director portion of that as well, and that's just really wrong.

we need someone in there, even if he's not a permanent day to day guy to act as a sounding board for mariner, talk mariner out of bad decisions, defend mariner's decisions to the front office if necessary, and basically be the guy in charge of keeping both sides form straying away from whatever philosophy and long term plan we've decided upon. I don't see earl and jimmy being able to fill that role.

[billyfly]

+ a boisterous / rabid fan base.
+ a packed stadium every game.
+ a core group who're willing to put up with shit and see you through just so long as we know you're trying.

most teams have the first one.
a few teams have the second one.
we OWN the third one.

Well put. Should I put that as my sig? Lol...

[Roogsy]

Here is an interesting question that I don't believe has been asked.

Earl has experience in MLS, of that there is no doubt. Player relations, media etc.

Going through what I know of Earl...I don't come across any experience on the "contract" side of the equation. As far as I know he has none. So what exactly makes him an able "administrator" GM? How do we know he will be able to manage cap space? How do we know he knows how to write up secure contracts? We've seen how he handled "training" issues. What confidence should I have in Earl as a GM other than his experience in non-GM areas???

[billyfly]

^Ensco asked the same question in essence.

[Roogsy]

Great minds think alike.

Was there an answer?

[ensco]

^Ensco asked the same question in essence.

Thank you billyfly.

This "administrative role" is an MLSE classic - a potentially huge, ill-defined thing where a bean-counter pulls all the strings behind the scenes. We should be deeply concerned about who exactly is chosen to go in to that role.

What is the mad desire on people's part to "figure this out" for Earl Cochrane, a guy nobody, and I mean nobody, thought had qualifications for a senior position prior to Mo's dismissal.

It's not pedigree. Earl learned whatever he learned from Mo, not Alex Ferguson.

The only reason I can think of is continuity. But in this case, continuity to what? The worst FO in the league, hands down.

So all I am left with is that he is trusted by Tom Anselmi. But why is Tom Anselmi being comfortable, something that matters to us?

I am truly floored by the number of people that seem not to care about any of this.

[Waggy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/9328665.stm


Paul Mariner has left his role as head coach at cash-strapped Plymouth Argyle to pursue an opportunity elsewhere.
The 57-year-old joined the Pilgrims from US side New England Revolution in October 2009.
He initially worked under Paul Sturrock, before replacing the Scot as Argyle boss in December 2009.
Mariner, who asked to be released from his contract on Thursday, had reverted to the number two role at Home Park under Peter Reid this season.
Mariner's departure comes with Plymouth facing the threat of being wound up next year, unless the club can pay off their £760,000 tax bill to HM Revenue and Customs.
The former England striker made 135 appearances for the Pilgrims between 1973 and 1976, scoring 56 goals.

[Roogsy]

I am truly floored by the number of people that seem not to care about any of this.


I'd have to think that most of us have not thought about it because it has slipped through the cracks. That Earl is an intelligent capable person there is no doubt. He absolutely is. But that is not the criteria here is it? If we truly want a no-nonsense, first-class front office, wouldn't you require that such a key position be filled by an experienced candidate and not a novice???

I agree...we should all be more concerned about this than it appears we are.

[TFCRegina]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/9328665.stm


Paul Mariner has left his role as head coach at cash-strapped Plymouth Argyle to pursue an opportunity elsewhere.
The 57-year-old joined the Pilgrims from US side New England Revolution in October 2009.
He initially worked under Paul Sturrock, before replacing the Scot as Argyle boss in December 2009.
Mariner, who asked to be released from his contract on Thursday, had reverted to the number two role at Home Park under Peter Reid this season.
Mariner's departure comes with Plymouth facing the threat of being wound up next year, unless the club can pay off their £760,000 tax bill to HM Revenue and Customs.
The former England striker made 135 appearances for the Pilgrims between 1973 and 1976, scoring 56 goals.

Well if he isn't taking a job with us, I'll be fucking flabbergasted.

[Suds]

Here is an interesting question that I don't believe has been asked.

Earl has experience in MLS, of that there is no doubt. Player relations, media etc.

Going through what I know of Earl...I don't come across any experience on the "contract" side of the equation. As far as I know he has none. So what exactly makes him an able "administrator" GM? How do we know he will be able to manage cap space? How do we know he knows how to write up secure contracts? We've seen how he handled "training" issues. What confidence should I have in Earl as a GM other than his experience in non-GM areas???


This would be handled by lawyers anyway .. in the sense of the legal speak in the contracts. Contract also has to go through MLS and their lawyers.

As for the cap space ... if Mo learned, albeit poorly, I think Earl can learn it. It's about math at the end of that day.

[ensco]

That Earl is an intelligent capable person there is no doubt. He absolutely is.

I don't wish to make this personal.

I have also seen others point out that he is a genuinely likeable sort, and would be a huge breath of fresh air style wise, when compared to the psychotic Mo regime.

I suspect that he is the sort of person one would love to have a beer with and discuss football with.

But if MLSE doesn't own this team, he's not in the discussion for a top job at TFC.

[Roogsy]

I don't wish to make this personal.

I have also seen others point out that he is a genuinely likeable sort, and would be a huge breath of fresh air style wise, when compared to the psychotic Mo regime.

I suspect that he is the sort of person one would love to have a beer with and discuss football with.

But if MLSE doesn't own this team, he's not in the discussion for a top job at TFC.


Ideally, TFC should have made Earl assistant GM to Mo when mo moved to become Director of Soccer Operations. Earl should have been given the time to learn the contract situations of the team and how to work the league (which Mo did have a knack for) and then he would have been an ideal, experienced and intelligent choice for GM once Mo left instead of a green rookie.

Did any of this happen? No. Because nobody was minding the store. Mo felt threatened from every corner and trusted nobody. He did not want an assistant GM because he knew that made him replaceable. The MLSE executive dropped the ball here as well by not providing "back-up" to Mo's role and simply trusting him outright. They definitely suck at management. MLSE pretty much makes money despite themselves.

By the way, he definitely is likeable. And very well spoken.

[mclaren]

Why do we need a General Manager at all? Is this not a North American construct? The rest of the world seems to fine without this position.

[TFCRegina]

I don't wish to make this personal.

I have also seen others point out that he is a genuinely likeable sort, and would be a huge breath of fresh air style wise, when compared to the psychotic Mo regime.

I suspect that he is the sort of person one would love to have a beer with and discuss football with.

But if MLSE doesn't own this team, he's not in the discussion for a top job at TFC.

Part of the problem though, is that MLSE doesn't have enough people who are involved in the game. Earl can claim to have played pro in Asia (I guess?). He's been with the CSA (not great credentials) and DC United, as well as TFC. Yes his roles haven't been in management. But they need to cultivate experience in the game. They keep firing whoever they have that has experience in the game (for good reason) but this has left the club with a void. They have middle management that knows nothing about the game (Cochrane excepted and his experience is limited). They need to start developing football culture.

If he fails as a GM, though, they better not fire him. They need to retain experience, even bad experience, in this club. Move him out of the job to something else, but retain someone who knows something about what is going on.

We don't want more "fucking baseball team" moments (thanks Pookie) with this club.

[Roogsy]

This would be handled by lawyers anyway .. in the sense of the legal speak in the contracts. Contract also has to go through MLS and their lawyers.

As for the cap space ... if Mo learned, albeit poorly, I think Earl can learn it. It's about math at the end of that day.


I see...so you're ok with "learning on the job" again?

Why not just stick a recent University grad in there then?

[trane]

^ I think that most teams in Italy, have a same kind of structure, an on field technical manager, and a GM type. For example Gagliani for Milan is more of the GM, and Allegri the "coach". But clearly the GM wants to get players that suite the techinical managers system/style.

[TFCRegina]

I see...so you're ok with "learning on the job" again?

Why not just stick a recent University grad in there then?

Difference Roogsy: Mo Johnston had more experience as a player. Earl doesn't seem to be set for anything but an administrative role.

I'd prefer someone without the prejudices that MoJo brought to the game.

Plus, we'll likely have someone with experience picking the players at the "Head Coach" level.

[Suds]

I see...so you're ok with "learning on the job" again?

Why not just stick a recent University grad in there then?

are you asking that in general or in the specific case of EC?

[trane]

They said that this would be a new and better direction [paraphrasing]. Does anyone believe that Earl Cochrane is the best person available to set a new and better direction for TFC?

[Roogsy]

are you asking that in general or in the specific case of EC?


I guess it would be in general since we are talking about a team that promised us a top notch FO and so far seem to be settling.

[reggie]

i like earl...but he should stick to visas and paperwork not running our club for the next 5 yrs...
tell me people...do you think any club in mls,usl,nasl,csl.would hire earl to run the club.nooooo.
but mlse does....WHAT A FUCKING JOKE...I WANT MO BACK

[TFCRegina]

^ I think that most teams in Italy, have a same kind of structure, an on field technical manager, and a GM type. For example Gagliani for Milan is more of the GM, and Alegry the "coach". But clearly the GM wants to get players that suite the techinical managers system/style.

Most continental teams have a team of 3. Technical director (Jimmy B I guess), Chairman/GM (the contract man), and Manager (the Tactician).

[Suds]

I guess it would be in general since we are talking about a team that promised us a top notch FO and so far seem to be settling.

if you are asking me in general then the answer is yes .. because we all learn on the job .. if we didn't, we would all come out of school as CEO's

[Alixir]

this ship is sinking fast.

[Roogsy]

if you are asking me in general then the answer is yes .. because we all learn on the job .. if we didn't, we would all come out of school as CEO's

True. But companies in trouble don't hire internally to promote into a CEO role, they bring in CEO's with experience in turning sinking ships around.

A compnay doing WELL is one that has a successful CEO at the helm and starts grooming potential candidates to fill the role eventually.

Where do you think we find ourselves?

[ensco]

if you are asking me in general then the answer is yes .. because we all learn on the job .. if we didn't, we would all come out of school as CEO's

I think in reality, we all becoming accomplished at a particular task, then get promoted to the next natural job.

What TFC may be proposing (or may have been proposing) to do with Cochrane is to promote him two or three levels above where he currently naturally would be.

Cochrane should, for example, run a successful USL team, or be an assistant GM to a successful MLS team, before he is given the job the most senior admin job of an MLS team, one in which he controls the purse strings of the soccer people.

[Suds]

True. But companies in trouble don't hire internally to promote into a CEO role, they bring in CEO's with experience in turning sinking ships around.

A compnay doing WELL is one that has a successful CEO at the helm and starts grooming potential candidates to fill the role eventually.

Where do you think we find ourselves?

Those are pretty general statements. The CEO of my company does not fit into either and we're quite successful.

[ginkster88]

The fact that they're making this distinction now, months after the firing of GM and Coach is enough to make clear that this organization has no idea where its going. This Klinnsman thing is hilarious, what the hell has the guy even done besides cash his cheques? Best job in the world as far as I can tell.

[trane]

Fuck if you are going to hire people for jsut having connections with the club, may as well just make Dichio the new field manager, at least you know he would care about the club and winning. I would feel better about it, as much as I am not for hiring players without managering/coaching experience, he would be better then these half assed names MLSE is comming up with.

[TFCRegina]

They said that this would be a new and better direction [paraphrasing]. Does anyone believe that Earl Cochrane is the best person available to set a new and better direction for TFC?

Well, he's not Mo Johnston. So he's already immediately qualified to set us in a new and better direction.

[Roogsy]

Those are pretty general statements. The CEO of my company does not fit into either and we're quite successful.

Your CEO was not promoted internally or brought in externally?

As for general statements, of course they are. We can only make general statements because there are always exceptions to the rule. The mistake is always believing that YOU will be the exception to the rule. The good bet is to believe you are NOT the exception to the rule and to follow proven convention. Going against the grain is a gamble...is that something TFC should be doing right now?

[ensco]

The fact that they're making this distinction now, months after the firing of GM and Coach is enough to make clear that this organization has no idea where its going. This Klinnsman thing is hilarious, what the hell has the guy even done besides cash his cheques? Best job in the world as far as I can tell.

Rented his name so that TFC could sell tickets to the waiting list.

[reggie]

You can shove your townhall meetings up your arse MLSE.

[ginkster88]

Your CEO was not promoted internally or brought in externally?

As for general statements, of course they are. We can only make general statements because there are always exceptions to the rule. The mistake is always believing that YOU will be the exception to the rule. The good bet is to believe you are NOT the exception to the rule and to follow proven convention. Going against the grain is a gamble...is that something TFC should be doing right now?

I'd guess not promoted internally and brought in externally but with no CEO-level experience. Happens all the time, rising star hits a glass ceiling in one org., gets grabbed by another.

[trane]

Well, he's not Mo Johnston. So he's already immediately qualified to set us in a new and better direction.

Ture. But that is a pretty low standard.

[TFCRegina]

Ture. But that is a pretty low standard.

Again, I have no problems with EC if his job is to do the paperwork. I don't want him having the final say on signing talent. I do want him to at least be a part of the discussion, he does need more experience. The guys with the final say should be Jimmy B (because we're stuck with him as a technical director/ass man) and ultimately, whoever Manages.

But this club needs to cultivate experience. EC in an administrative role will not be all that damaging.

[Section 117]

Jimmy B should have nothing to do with the running of this club with the exception of maybe getting everyone coffee, he might be able to screw up that as well.

I want him no where near anything of influence on the team. I rather have Tom A making the decisions over Jimmy B

[Suds]

Your CEO was not promoted internally or brought in externally?

As for general statements, of course they are. We can only make general statements because there are always exceptions to the rule. The mistake is always believing that YOU will be the exception to the rule. The good bet is to believe you are NOT the exception to the rule and to follow proven convention. Going against the grain is a gamble...is that something TFC should be doing right now?


That's not what I answered to. Don't decide to pick out just two words from your statement.

You put conditions on an internal hire and an external hire in your previous post.

[TFCRegina]

Jimmy B should have nothing to do with the running of this club with the exception of maybe getting everyone coffee, he might be able to screw up that as well.

I want him no where near anything of influence on the team. I rather have Tom A making the decisions over Jimmy B

I don't disagree. But we're stuck with him right now.

[Nuvinho]

Jimmy B should have nothing to do with the running of this club with the exception of maybe getting everyone coffee, he might be able to screw up that as well.

I want him no where near anything of influence on the team. I rather have Tom A making the decisions over Jimmy B

I agree, Jimmy B should NOT be in the front office making decisions on players, etc.. Let's just hope he was hired to save face after Preki told him to get out. They give him a cushy job until his contract runs out.

[Roogsy]

That's not what I answered to. Don't decide to pick out just two words from your statement.

You put conditions on an internal hire and an external hire in your previous post.


Sorry...was just trying to summarize the opposing points without having to restate the whole post.

[Roogsy]

Jimmy B should have nothing to do with the running of this club with the exception of maybe getting everyone coffee, he might be able to screw up that as well.

I want him no where near anything of influence on the team. I rather have Tom A making the decisions over Jimmy B


Here, here...absolutely 100%.

[Brooker]

MLSE seems to lack imagination - always hiring from within, always ending in bad results. Have they not learned anything?

extremely depressing because it's so damn true.

[Beach_Red]

Why do we need a General Manager at all? Is this not a North American construct? The rest of the world seems to fine without this position.


A couple pages back Sec117 posted an org chart - that's what we need. If we're going to compare TFC to other clubs in the world, let's look at their whole structure - they really aren't one-man operations.

[Suds]

Sorry...was just trying to summarize the opposing points without having to restate the whole post.


cool ... we should get back on topic anyway

I've always taken the position Earl should be someone TFC does groom for a greater role within the club.

At this stage I'm not OK with him being given a full-blown GM position (player decisions, contracts, hiring of coaches, etc.) But I am OK with him in Asst. Director/GM role that 117 laid out in one of his posts. Taking care of contracts, investigating how certain contracts and salaries will affect our cap & payroll.

[Roogsy]

cool ... we should get back on topic anyway

I've always taken the position Earl should be someone TFC does groom for a greater role within the club.

At this stage I'm not OK with him being given a full-blown GM position (player decisions, contracts, hiring of coaches, etc.) But I am OK with him in Asst. Director/GM role that 117 laid out in one of his posts. Taking care of contracts, investigating how certain contracts and salaries will affect our cap & payroll.


Quite a few have said they'd be ok with a reduced "GM" role if the Coach was a "Manager" type with the power that goes along with it. I suppose it would be better than having an inexperienced GM AND a coach like Preki.

[Beach_Red]

Well, he's not Mo Johnston. So he's already immediately qualified to set us in a new and better direction.

It's funny, this is the situation MLSE created and also the one they're using as an excuse not to go after experienced people (who might have their own ability to make decisions and be more difficult to control).

If TFC was at the bottom of MLS for ticket sales and sold no merchandise then sure, why not hire people with little or no experience and hope they can learn on the job.

But it's not. It's one of the most profitable teams in the league. We saw how little allocation it cost Seattle to poach Sigi the day after his team won the Cup - why aren't we doing the same, we can afford it.

[Suds]

Quite a few have said they'd be ok with a reduced "GM" role if the Coach was a "Manager" type with the power that goes along with it. I suppose it would be better than having an inexperienced GM AND a coach like Preki.


On that note ... if we were to hypothetically plug in Mariner and Cochrane into and org chart like 117 laid out, how would everyone feel about that? Who would we plug in that top role?

Technical Director - In charge of anything to do with soccer related activities with in TFC. Everything from the academy, to first squad and all related hiring. Including players.

Earl Cochrane
Assistant Director/GM - In charge of all contracts, cap management and complete understanding of all of the MLS rules. Earl would be this guy

Paul Mariner
Coach/Manager - Run first team implements system determined by technical director has large input along with technical director on players coming and going, takes responsibility for all practices and game preparations.

Asst. Coach - Helps coach with implementing the system, helps run practice and additional runs the reserve squad based on the system that has been decided on between coach and technical director.

[Roogsy]

Well it's the structure I have bet on that TFC will be going with and it's ok but nothing impressive. Certainly not the best front office in MLS that MLSE promised us.

[__wowza]

can we all agree that earl would be best suited to a non-technical (not running the team on the field) GM role? it seems that the past 5 pages have just been us repeating ourselves.

[Section 117]

Well it's the structure I have bet on that TFC will be going with and it's ok but nothing impressive. Certainly not the best front office in MLS that MLSE promised us.

Ok who could TFC possibly get to impress us??

As I have stated before no super huge name would even look at any team in the MLS if we add Nicol as technical director I think we have an above averge FO compared to the rest of the MLS. As it stans now it would be consider average IMO

[loconet]

^ I think that most teams in Italy, have a same kind of structure, an on field technical manager, and a GM type. For example Gagliani for Milan is more of the GM, and Allegri the "coach". But clearly the GM wants to get players that suite the techinical managers system/style.

Yah..same in Spain (Director of football) eg. Txiki and Rijkaard, Guardiola and Zubizarreta, Mou and Valdano.. etc.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_of_football

[Beach_Red]

Well it's the structure I have bet on that TFC will be going with and it's ok but nothing impressive. Certainly not the best front office in MLS that MLSE promised us.

Yes, from that point down it's okay - it's from those positions up that's the problem. How about signing a DP? Will MLSE really give either of those guys free hand to spend multi-million dollars? I don't actually believed they handed over the entire operating budget of TFC to the inexperienced Mo Johnston and I doubt they would hand it over here, either. So, with this structure there will probably be meddling. (I know no one here is interested, but someday when his non-disclosure runs out it might be interesting to hear from Mo).

[Suds]

Ok who could TFC possibly get to impress us??

As I have stated before no super huge name would even look at any team in the MLS if we add Nicol as technical director I think we have an above averge FO compared to the rest of the MLS. As it stans now it would be consider average IMO

I guess that will always be debatable because we will each have our own idea.

I think the bigger question is what happened to all these top soccer people who Tom Anselmi said were banging on TFC's door about working with the club?

As noted above, we all clearly heard TFC state they would be hiring a FO that is second to none in the MLS. As much as I'm behind keeping Earl and his future with the club, even I have to admit that's not meeting the expectation set by TFC.

[ElvistheEvilScotsman]

Aren't we due for a reactive comment from Mr Insecurity (Earl) stating the rumours arent true only to come true tomorrow?

Not surprised by the last minute switch after what happened with Cummins appointment an hour before the press conference to announce Daso in Season 3.

I'm not convinced Earl can handle the paper pushing job as he clearly spends way too much time responding to rumours rather than managing the team.

[ensco]

It doesn't matter if any of us are "fine" with Earl in the appropriate reduced role. That decision belongs to the new GM. Or should anyway.

[Beach_Red]

It doesn't matter if any of us are "fine" with Earl in the appropriate reduced role. That decision belongs to the new GM. Or should anyway.

How long have you been following Toronto teams? :D

[ilikemusic]

For TFC to shift course, dont they need to have been on one in the first place?

[Suds]

updating this solely based on the Nicol rumour

does something like this make sense? Nicol in this role with Mariner as coach? maybe switch them?



Steve Nicol
Technical Director - In charge of anything to do with soccer related activities with in TFC. Everything from the academy, to first squad and all related hiring. Including players.

Earl Cochrane
Assistant Director/GM - In charge of all contracts, cap management and complete understanding of all of the MLS rules. Earl would be this guy

Paul Mariner
Coach/Manager - Run first team implements system determined by technical director has large input along with technical director on players coming and going, takes responsibility for all practices and game preparations.

Asst. Coach - Helps coach with implementing the system, helps run practice and additional runs the reserve squad based on the system that has been decided on between coach and technical director.

[ensco]

How long have you been following Toronto teams? :D

They've got us all trained, don't they.

[ensco]

updating this solely based on the Nicol rumour

does something like this make sense? Nicol in this role with Mariner as coach? maybe switch them?



Steve Nicol
Technical Director - In charge of anything to do with soccer related activities with in TFC. Everything from the academy, to first squad and all related hiring. Including players.

Earl Cochrane
Assistant Director/GM - In charge of all contracts, cap management and complete understanding of all of the MLS rules. Earl would be this guy

Paul Mariner
Coach/Manager - Run first team implements system determined by technical director has large input along with technical director on players coming and going, takes responsibility for all practices and game preparations.

Asst. Coach - Helps coach with implementing the system, helps run practice and additional runs the reserve squad based on the system that has been decided on between coach and technical director.

This is a slippery slope. This only works if "Nicol" (insert any candidate here) chooses "Cochrane" (insert name of MLSE put) of his own free will. But if "Nicol" wants the job, then he knows he has to say yes to "Cochrane".

The search for the GM is designed to fail when you set it up this way. If you want an effective process you ask the candidate: "What would you do? Who would you bring in?".

[TFC07]

updating this solely based on the Nicol rumour

does something like this make sense? Nicol in this role with Mariner as coach? maybe switch them?



Steve Nicol
Technical Director - In charge of anything to do with soccer related activities with in TFC. Everything from the academy, to first squad and all related hiring. Including players.

Earl Cochrane
Assistant Director/GM - In charge of all contracts, cap management and complete understanding of all of the MLS rules. Earl would be this guy

Paul Mariner
Coach/Manager - Run first team implements system determined by technical director has large input along with technical director on players coming and going, takes responsibility for all practices and game preparations.

Asst. Coach - Helps coach with implementing the system, helps run practice and additional runs the reserve squad based on the system that has been decided on between coach and technical director.

I wouldn't mind if this ends up happening.

[Beach_Red]

This is a slippery slope. This only works if "Nicol" (insert any candidate here) chooses "Cochrane" (insert name of MLSE put) of his own free will. But if "Nicol" wants the job, then he knows he has to say yes to "Cochrane".

The search for the GM is designed to fail when you set it up this way. If you want an effective process you ask the candidate: "What would you do? Who would you bring in?".

But really, it's the way it's always been set-up. They've been totally upfront that most of the people are staying - just like they told Preki the assistant coaches were staying.

Whoever accepts the job is going to have to say yes to all kinds of things. Isn't that pretty standard in a lot of big organizations to maintain control like this and make sure that no single individual ever gets too much power? (it's certainly the way it works in my business)

(again, this is why some of us "bash" the organization rather than the individuals - no single individual ever really has that much sawy over the way things are done)

[ensco]

But really, it's the way it's always been set-up. They've been totally upfront that most of the people are staying - just like they told Preki the assistant coaches were staying.

Whoever accepts the job is going to have to say yes to all kinds of things. Isn't that pretty standard in a lot of big organizations to maintain control like this and make sure that no single individual ever gets too much power? (it's certainly the way it works in my business)

(again, this is why some of us "bash" the organization rather than the individuals - no single individual ever really has that much sawy over the way things are done)



There's always a single individual with too much power in these set ups.

I'd restate your point: it's how individuals (ie Anselmi in this case) make sure that they remain the individual that has too much power, as opposed to the new guy coming in and usurping it over time. It's up to Peddie and the Board to police this, and make sure it doesn't happen. It all goes back to the vacuum created by Teachers unwillingness to exercise control, and the screwball ways that void gets filled by Peddie, Tanenbaum, Anselmi et al.

I agree it's a curse of bureaucratic life. I know that, I just hate to see it ruining my soccer team.

[Beach_Red]

There's always a single individual with too much power in these set ups.

I'd restate your point: it's how individuals (ie Anselmi in this case) make sure that they remain the individual that has too much power, as opposed to the new guy coming in and usurping it over time. It's up to peddie and the Board to police this, and make sure it doesn't happen. It all goes back to the vacuum created by teachers unwillingness to exercise control, and the screwball ways that void gets filled by Peddie, Tanenbaum, Anselmi et al.

I agree it's a curse of bureaucratic life. I know that, I just hate to see it ruining my soccer team.


Yes, that's a better way to put it.

And I agree it goes back to the vacuum created by the teachers. I just went through a terrible experience at CTV that had a lot of the same issues as TFC just with directors and producers instead of coaches and managers. So, now Bell is buying CTV and Rogers is buying MLSE and we might get some changes, see what life is like without that vacuum.

[trane]

For TFC to shift course, dont they need to have been on one in the first place?

True. Or maybe any direction but straight down is a change of course of some sort.

[Rudi]

We saw how little allocation it cost Seattle to poach Sigi the day after his team won the Cup - why aren't we doing the same, we can afford it.
You consider $500,000 as "little" allocation?

[Parkdale]

You consider $500,000 as "little" allocation?


what's TFC worth now? somewhere in the 100 Million ballpark?
You figure that 0.5% would be worth it to protect that value.

[ag futbol]

Ok, each job offer has it's conditions but it's silly that dysfunctional TFC just doesn't know when to quit. It's like asking a crackhead to guard the drug supply, they just can't help but meddle! They fully admit they know absolutely nothing about soccer then immediately attach conditions to certain key staff members staying. WTF?

As for 500k in allocation money for Nicol... considering the overall value he brings to the organization, I'd consider it. Especially if the other candidates aren't available.

[Oldtimer]

The fact that they're making this distinction now, months after the firing of GM and Coach is enough to make clear that this organization has no idea where its going. This Klinnsman thing is hilarious, what the hell has the guy even done besides cash his cheques? Best job in the world as far as I can tell.

This comment really looks ill-informed right now.

[Roogsy]

This comment really looks ill-informed right now.

That's unfair. There were so many contradictory signals being sent, the lack of confidence in this team given it's history is justified. To go back after all is said and done (which still hasn't happened by the way) and rip into people who were justifiably upset after 100+ days of little action on this front is ridiculous.

[Stryker]

That's unfair. There were so many contradictory signals being sent, the lack of confidence in this team given it's history is justified. To go back after all is said and done (which still hasn't happened by the way) and rip into people who were justifiably upset after 100+ days of little action on this front is ridiculous.

I agree.

Cheap shot IMO.

[jloome]

What isn't ridiculous is that some of us saw this story for the horseshit it was. They weren't just off a little, they were completely off base. Earl is not the new GM, Daso is not the coach.

And from today's announcement, it's clear TFC has been talking to people for awhile, so I really have to wonder how reliable their sources were in the first place and whether the gun was badly jumped.

[Beach_Red]

What isn't ridiculous is that some of us saw this story for the horseshit it was. They weren't just off a little, they were completely off base. Earl is not the new GM, Daso is not the coach.

And from today's announcement, it's clear TFC has been talking to people for awhile, so I really have to wonder how reliable their sources were in the first place and whether the gun was badly jumped.

It's also interetsing that Winter says he was here last week and of the three people who met with TFC he was the one picked.

[Nuvinho]

Remember a few days ago (or a week ago), they mentioned that TFC had a new Candidate. What could of happened, is that Mariner was the choice, but Winter impressed them so much, that they had to maybe make Mariner TD to get him as well or vice versa.

[jloome]

It's also interetsing that Winter says he was here last week and of the three people who met with TFC he was the one picked.

Out of context when you consider that in the same article, Winter says its been in the works for awhile. All that means is they brought their guy in to tell him.

But based on what Winter said, they could've interviewed him two weeks ago or two months ago, for all we'll know. Regardless, it's clear the original story was just wrong.

[Nuvinho]

^ I heard he was here a month or so ago for the interview.

[jloome]

That's unfair....rip into people who were justifiably upset after 100+ days of little action....

He didn't rip into those people. He ripped into the guy who called Jurgen Klinsmann a deadbeat and stated it was obvious the club wasn't doing anything. It was about as far off as a person could possibly be.

That's not unfair. It's apt.

If he'd have said "everyone who's worried about the team's direction sure looks stupid now" or something, then it would be unfair.

[jloome]

^ I heard he was here a month or so ago for the interview.

Seems unlikely then that the original "sources" had any clue what was going on.

[Beach_Red]

Out of context when you consider that in the same article, Winter says its been in the works for awhile. All that means is they brought their guy in to tell him.

But based on what Winter said, they could've interviewed him two weeks ago or two months ago, for all we'll know. Regardless, it's clear the original story was just wrong.

I think it's good that they interviewed more than one guy - whether it was last week or two months ago or whenever. "In the works" means he was one of the final candidates in a process that went on for quite awhile and probably involved a lot of candidates, again, a good sign.

[ensco]

These are damn fine people to be bringing in. I am excited. But I can't help thinking that people get told things in job interiews every day, and sometimes those things don't happen.

Anselmi and Cochrane probably still control the purse strings here. Too soon for anyone to be endzone dancing.

Please god let Klinsmann be part of the structure...

[Beach_Red]

These are damn fine people to be bringing in. I am excited. But I can't help thinking that people get told things in job interiews every day, and sometimes those things don't happen.

Anselmi and Cochrane probably still control the purse strings here. Too soon for anyone to be endzone dancing.

Please god let Klinsmann be part of the structure...

Wait, are you suggesting that MLSE may have told these guys they have complete control over how they spend the money, that they can sign any DP they want to any contract terms? ;) Do you think these guys would believe that?

Sure it's too soon to get too excited, but the biggest improvement this time is that the guys being told things in this job interview aren't inexperienced novices desperate to take whatever job comes along. These are guys with more experience and now MLSE is more known in the soccer world (Mariner did mention in an interview he spoke to Mo).

There is a lot of history to overcome here, but in a salary capped league good management can make a huge difference.

[Oldtimer]

He didn't rip into those people. He ripped into the guy who called Jurgen Klinsmann a deadbeat and stated it was obvious the club wasn't doing anything. It was about as far off as a person could possibly be.

That's not unfair. It's apt.

If he'd have said "everyone who's worried about the team's direction sure looks stupid now" or something, then it would be unfair.

Thank you.

I was worried myself about the team, and said so.

I always believed that Klinsmann had a real job, though. No way would he ruin his reputation for a few bucks. I also said so about that, as well.

It was really unfair to attack Klinsmann that way, just because we've been lied to for 4 years by Mo Johnston.

[ensco]

Wait, are you suggesting that MLSE may have told these guys they have complete control over how they spend the money, that they can sign any DP they want to any contract terms? ;) Do you think these guys would believe that?



^Fair comment. You are right. I think. I hope.

Lets put it this way. It looks like it'll be a Euro setup, but instead of a "Moratti", it's an "Anselmi", at the top.

That's why I'm dreaming about a "Klinsmann" at the top.

[ManUtd4ever]

^Fair comment. You are right. I think. I hope.

Lets put it this way. It looks like it'll be a Euro setup, but instead of a "Moratti", it's an "Anselmi", at the top.

That's why I'm dreaming about a "Klinsmann" at the top.

Tom Anselmi is the likely candidate to succeed Richard Peddie as the next CEO of MLSE in a year from now. In that scenario, he might relinquish his role at the helm of TFC operations. If Klinsmann extends his current contract with MLSE as a consultant as it has been suggested on this forum, perhaps your dream may become a reality at some point in the future...

[Beach_Red]

Tom Anselmi is the likely candidate to succeed Richard Peddie as the next CEO of MLSE in a year from now. In that scenario, he might relinquish his role at the helm of TFC operations. If Klinsmann extends his current contract with MLSE as a consultant as it has been suggested on this forum, perhaps your dream may become a reality at some point in the future...

If the company is still owned by the teachers. That deal is probably progressing just like the finding of these guys to run TFC - quietly and with very few leaks.

But your point still stands, if TFC start to do well and look like the management is in place the new owners will probably just leave them alone.